This is the most influential game ever made, objectively.
While Doom, Quake, Half-Life 1& 2, Halo, etc all had big impacts on gaming, MGS1 is the only one whose legacy is still seen in most modern games (for good and bad and ugly results).
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Kojimadrones are delusional.
Kojima* literally kojima spending hours every day making posts about himself as fans. Been doing it for decades. Why konami fired him. Fuxk you kpjima
>(for good and bad and ugly results)
Its the only real competition OoT had back then.
OoT came after, so OoT was the competition for MGS
Zelda 1 came out 1.5 years before Metal Gear so Metal Gear was always a ripoff of the former.
MGS only inspired a couple of niche games like WinBack and Spy Fiction
MGS popularized voiced in-game cutscenes on consoles
It was Resident Evil. If anything Metal Gear 1 and especially 2 were way more influential to gaming. Aside from the cutscenes (which again was done in RE1 before, MGS1 was just better at it) MGS1 didn't bring anything new for the series. MGS1 is an amazing game but I don't understand why everyone considers it to be very influential
RE had FMVs, while MGS had in-engine cutscenes integrated with the plot and gameplay like nobody had ever seen before.
Doesn't RE only have FMVs for intro/ending and also before one of the tyrant fights? The rest is ingame
Yes, the rest are in-game... now, what happens during those cutscenes? They stand there mostly unmoving with barely any action or animations and terrible voice acting.
MGS1 is what made games serious.
An argument could be made for Alone in the Dark as well. And Little Big Adventure. They did a lot for early 3D graphics presentation.
>MGS1 is what made games serious.
I never claimed it wasn't. It's just that you people always act like it literally INVENTED in-game cutscenes. My point is that all of this can't be attributed solely to 1 game
I'm going to claim it wasn't. That's a ridiculous claim.
Myst was out. That was a proper "grown up game" from 1993.
You are reaching so far to deny MGS1 any recognition, it's honestly embarrassing.
How many more games are you going to namedrop before you realize how pointless your "argument" is?
Why does MGS have to be the most important game of all time?
Sony pushed it as a killer app for their system. It's a good game, fine. It wasn't the first to do almost any of what it was doing, and it wasn't even the first Metal Gear game to do half of it.
>You are reaching so far to deny MGS1 any recognition,
You overreached a bit trying to claim MGS1 made games serious (assuming that was your post). His comparison to Myst is appropriate. Myst, even when looked at in a vacuum, is genuinely a mature game for mature gamers whom the designers expect to tolerate or even appreciate extended periods of quietness, examine small details for themselves with little to no help, and to be willing to get a pen and paper in order to solve certain puzzles. Personally, drawing a diagram of the railbound submarine route to get past it has stuck with me way more than any gameplay or cinematic moment from MGS1. Much like figuring out the Lizardman language in Ultima Underworld.
MGS1 isn't like that at all. It's in line with mainstream entertainment to draw in a large crowd without doing anything to exclude or "filter" audiences. I think it's comparable to the difference between literary fiction and genre fiction in literature.
There were smaller ones to show off something they couldn't do in 1996 like raising the gate for the water and also for new creature appearances if you were about to face them for the first time.
The Hunter gently opening the door is always funny. The remake just has it smash through, which is cool foreshadowing for a new mechanic.
How mindbroken do you have to be to unironically claim that fricking Resident Evil is what pushed for games to be cinematic and use in-game cutscenes?
Ask any developer, it's always been MGS1. It literally changed the industry and killed off FMV cutscenes for almost every game that wasn't Final Fantasy.
he means RE2 which came out almoat a year before mgs
>How mindbroken do you have to be to unironically claim that fricking Resident Evil is what pushed for games to be cinematic and use in-game cutscenes?
RE literally is one of the games that did push for that.
RE1 is one of the first games cited to "break down the wall" separating games and films. It caused RE2 to have an actual TV writer involved, who went on to create Capcom's FLAGSHIP writing team. Both 1 and 2 were lauded for their cinematic approach in presentation, and 2 especially was lauded as a step up in voice acting and narrative quality.
It's easy to listen to youtubers who say "MGS1 changed EVERYTHING", but that wasn't entirely true. Even in Japan, the CD version of Snatcher was the significant moment for video game voice acting- MGS1 was just an iteration on what Kojima had already done with that revision of Snatcher and the later Policenauts. In the West as well, Alone in the Dark and Myst offered performances equivalent to an audio book or a show.
As for "killed off FMV cutscenes", FMV would still be employed for decades following. While Kojima pushed for in engine cutscenes, Resident Evil still used FMV up until 4, Silent Hill was critically acclaimed for the amount of detail achieved in its FMVs just a year after MGS released (yes, Sato won an award for his FMV work, which is why 2 focused so heavily on FMVs), go to the PS3 and alongside MGS4's entirely in engine presentation you have games like Red Alert 3 which used actual live action scenes, even today games still use FMVs, both live action ones (Alan Wake 2) and more traditional animated types (the recent DBZ Kakarot).
Resident Evil did nothing new in terms of story or cutscenes. FMVs for action cutscenes and in-game scenes with NPCs statically talking to each other with basic animations were the norm already.
MGS is what showed everyone that you can have in-game cutscenes even with low-poly 3D models that are more exciting and action packed than most FMVs.
It was going to happen no matter what with a disc based console over a cart based one.
exception that proves the rule
"the exception that proves the rule" is just a bad argument.
>I'm wrong but I'm still right, aha!
I want to slap the person who coined that term.
Nobody is saying MGS1 is the first to do these things. It did them better than anyone else and totally changed the perception of what a non-RPGs' story can be.
I'm not being mean when I say nobody cares about any of these other games, I'm being real. Nobody cares, it was MGS1 that made them care.
It would have happened anyway.
"cimematics" were a big meme that everyone was chasing throughout the late 80's and early 90's (which is pretty much why CD games happened at all). FMV cutscenes always had a limited lifespan, because eventually the in-game graphics were going to catch up.
The notion that people couldn't imagine a game like MGS until it was made, is just historical revisionism. You could look at something like the original Virtua Cop, and see that as a kind of earlier attempt to do the "fully playable action movie" concept.
It is used very specifically for certain specific thing, problem is that morons use it wrong all the time like the post you were quoting.
>Half life
>Quake
>Goldeneye
>Metal Gear Solid
>Ocarina of Time
>Mario 64
All extremely influential and within a few year timeframe.
>Goldeneye
Popularized console FPS that weren't 2D sprite Doom clones, had mission objectives. Massively influential to Half life.
>Half-life
The modern first person "story campaign" that wasn't just abstract levels and told a story in the levels.
>Quake
Full 3D game.
>Ocarina
Full 3D third person game, massively influential to third person games from GTA III to Dark Souls and Ico.
>in-game graphics for cutscenes
>long cinematic storylines
>lots of voice acting
By having radio calls and in-game models, they could do hours worth of story on only two discs. The previous thinking was that they needed special live action scenes or FMV with pre-rendered graphics, which upped the cost and reduced the amount of story scenes you could have.
Combine Half-life and MGS's story approach and you get Call of Duty and those first person story campaign games of the 00's.
Just, no. Also your post is not well structured. It's like you wrote it while half asleep.
Why is this a good thing? I'm supposed to enjoy watching Horizon Zero Gameplay walking and talking?
I'm supposed to enjoy Ghost of Gameplay, walking and talking for 80% of the game?
I'm supposed to enjoy God of Onions, walking and talking to my wife's son for hours on end between 2 minute gameplay segments?
I'm supposed to enjoy Gameplay Stranding, literally walking and talking for hours is the only gameplay there is?
no you are supposed to enjoy elden ring like a grown up.
It was the first big moviegame, which have been a disaster for the industry.
It wasn't though. "cinematic games" come in waves. Games like Another World and Flashback were for their time considered very cinematic, and that was a selling point.
And of course there were FMV games that were literally movies, and on rails arcade shooters, which were also pretty much movies, and Japanese adventure games which were all over PC88 and PC98, but also the NES a fair amount.".
"MGS was the first movie game". Is like the most ignorant thing you can say about video games.
PC98 eroge and Metal Gear Solid aren't really similar at all. The only thing they have in common is that they both have more words in them than the average game.
The gameplay loop in a PC98 VN is clicking Look, Touch, and Think on every single interactable part of the screen until the game allows you to progress.
In MGS you control a small man you walk around the screen who can equip items you directly use on the environment and enemies in a manner that isn't 100% scripted.
They could not be less similar.
I don't think PC88 and PC98 VNs had any influence on the larger industry.
I don't think they even had any lasting impact on eroge. Pretty much the instant To Heart came out every aspect of their gameplay was thrown in the trash and nobody ever looked back.
Your other points... rail shooters? When was the last time you saw one of those? House of the Dead Overkill? Gal Gun? Those are PS3 games.
FMV games? I'm sorry, but Suzuki Bakuhatsu is the literal opposite of influential. When was the most recent "Night Trap-like" you enjoyed released? Last decade? Last century?
Games like Metal Gear Solid still come out every week if not every frickin' day.
How large its impact was can be argued. How lasting it's impact has been cannot.
>I don't think PC88 and PC98 VNs had any influence on the larger industry.
Even the ones Kojima made, which are where he hashed out his whole style?
>Games like Metal Gear Solid still come out every week if not every frickin' day
No they don't. Like the only relevant modern stealth game is Hitman, which plays nothing like Metal Gear.
Resident evil predates mgs
Should I tell em?
It's literally just an adventure game, mixed with Pacman maze game gameplay.
All of the "cinematic" shit, and clever outside of the box thinking was just standard adventure game gameplay, that everyone had been doing since the 80's, including Kojima, because that was his background as a developer.
It's influential in as much as it exposed coca cola guzzling American ten year old consoletards to those design concepts, I guess.
lmao they don't like the truth
>bros pizza was not a big deal!
>pepperonic was a already a thing
>and bread already existed
this is what you sound like
>he thinks pizza is bread and pepperoni
mama mia!
Exactly. only a moron would say "Pac-Man" to try and downplay MGS
Only a moron would say MGS was more influential than Pacman. Pacman was the first mascot in gaming. He transitioned us out of the super early era of gaming into the mascot era, which lead to like everything that happened throughout the 80's and 90's.
MGS was an American action movie as a video game, which had been done by that point. Virtua Cop was the same thing. Kojima's early adventure games were the same thing. Like any number of 8 or16 bit action games are the same thing.
MGS was just a good game. It didn't really do anything apart from execute those concepts slightly better than everyone else (arguably).
It's not because of MGS that people decided to start making games resemble movies. MGS rode the wave. It didn't make it.
MGS rode the wave. It didn't make it
This applies to literally every game Kojima has ever made
Pretty much. He's a good game designer, but what he's really good at is taking credit for things that other people were doing, and building his own brand. He's an absolute genius at that shit.
Look at how he's currently repackaging FromSoftware's online play concepts as "strand gaming", and people are fully going along with it. He's been doing this forever.
You see it all over this thread. There's anons that seriously believe that Thief and Splinter Cell copied Metal Gear Solid
>Pacman was the first mascot in gaming
Ok, and where are mascots now? In the shitter
MGS was the first serious movie game. No one cares about your Flashback or Plumbers Don't Wear Ties. MGS did it. And movie games and cinematography in general have stuck around since. Cope.
Mascots still have decent play. Mario and Sonic do well.
Mascots were everything for a while. Even Snake was a mascot character. Master Chief or Marcux Pheonix were probably the last big one.
They only really gave way when the Bethesda style open world game really took off, and then suddenly everyone wanted character creators, instead of a specific face that sells a game.
>Pac-Man is responsible for Mario
You're an absolute moron if you believe this
Nintendo is responsible for Mario. What Mario is is a whole world away from the simple shit that is Pac-Man.
>Snake and Master Chief are mascots
Not really. Despite what morons might say. They're fully fleshed characters
FMV garbage is not a game. Where is FMV garbage now? In the garbage. In fact people have brought it back ironically just to make fun of how bad it is
You are so bad butt-wrecked by Kojima's influence it's ridiculous
>Pac-Man is responsible for Mario
Yes.
>Snake and Master Chief are mascots
Yes.
> Where is FMV garbage now?
they stopped making FMV games specifically because graphics got good enough to bridge the gap. It was always going to happen eventually.
A lot of modern games, effectively are FMV games in spirit, with how they focus on storytelling and cinematography first, with a bit of gameplay. They're even scanning real actors now.
You're focusing too much on the specific technology used, when the technology is always just a tool to be exploited. The artistic vision is the part that matters.
The people who made Hard Line said "I want a game that looks like a real Hollywood movie, where a real actor is on screen, and delivers lines". The people who made Cyberpunk 2077 said "I want a game that looks like a real Hollywood movie, where a real actor is on screen, and delivers lines".
>Yes.
Very compelling argument
You're mad, and wrong.
>they stopped making FMV games specifically because graphics got good enough
Look at this fool losing his spaghetti
FMV games stopped being made because they were shit, they looked like shit, played like shit if you actually got to play anything, they were not games
>You're focusing too much on the technology used
You're a dumbass. The technology used is what makes the games possible. An FMV "game" is not a game. Cyberpunk is a game and has sold millions and millions of copies because the technology is inside the disc and makes it possible
MGS is a game (maybe not a great one, but the ground-breaking technology is there). You, though, are stupid and lost
MGS1 "looks like shit" by modern standards. Things move forward.
Hardline also is totally "a game". It's a mixed adventure game/onrails shooter. You haven't even played it.
Why do you need MGS to be the most influential game of all time, anyway? Why do you need to inflate Kojima's ego even more, by pretending he invented the concept of video games? It's such a pointlessly dumb exercise.
What's your objection to Resident Evil being cited as a game that did what MGS did first, anyway? Some of the cutscenes are FMV? That doesn't mean anything. MGS has FMVs in it too. It has stock video footage.
MGS has better cinematography? Okay, so what? MGS didn't come up with the idea to have cinematography. It was just a well executed product.
>What's your objection to Resident Evil being cited as a game that did what MGS did first, anyway?
RE1 gets some credit for cinematography for sure, but not to the level of MGS. The shitty voice acting RE1 has doesn't help its case either.
>Why do you need to inflate Kojima's ego even more
And now we get to the crux of the issue. Your problem isn't that MGS is much more influential than RE1, which it is of course, it's that you can't accept that this guy that you don't like was/is a big deal
Ignoring the fact that MGS was not made by one guy, but that nuance goes way past you
I don't see how it's "the most influential game of all time", and I've explained my reasoning.
The idea to make games that resemble American movies was already being done, and would have kept being done regardless.
Kojima made a good game. He did not alter the course of history.
Honestly, MGS is surprisingly un-influential. Basically no one tries to make anything like Kojima, because his work is so idiosyncratic and weird, and I think pretty much only he can get away with it.
MGS1 style stealth is dead. No one is making those. Even MGSV ended up playing more like Deus Ex or Hitman.
>Honestly, MGS is surprisingly un-influential. Basically no one tries to make anything like Kojima
You could say Splinter Cell, but an apples-to-apples comparison places it closer to Thief in mechanics and structure.
It's the cutscenes with their camera angle changes, motion blur, flashbacks, great voice acting, and the action sequences within their cutscenes. That's what makes MGS1 influential.
Everyone who made cutscenes in games after MGS1 tried to emulate what it did while others sought to emulate Half-Life with its cutscenes that you experienced while still controlling your character.
Back then people lovingly said "it's just like movie!" because nothing before had ever gotten so close to (and even eclipse in some cases) what a typical Hollywood action film does with its own camerawork and special effects. It got old though and "movie games" became derided eventually and, ironically, it was MGS4 that put people over the edge.
Kojima was influenced by cinema which showed in his work. What makes you think other game creators weren't also inspired by cinema?
Because nobody did that before MGS1 made a hit best-selling game out of it. Games had cutscenes and tried to be cinematic obviously, but it all came together in MGS1.
Everyone else felt like there should be a clear separation between gameplay and story unless it was an RPG or puzzle game where the "gameplay" is basically moving around and using menus. As I said, game devs after 1998 either emulated MGS1 or HL1 when it came to making cutscenes/story an extension of the gameplay or even a reward for passing a gameplay segment.
>Cutscenes as extension of gameplay
You mean like FMV games?
The ones that fricking sucked and everyone hated? Yes.
MGS showed them all how it was done.
They sucked and everyone hated them because FMV games were emulating the style of MGS? Your defensiveness has caused you to forget what the conversation was.
My point was how cutscenes and story as an extension of gameplay had been done before; Having cutscenes interwoven with gameplay is not an innovative concept.
>FMV games were emulating the style of MGS
I wasn't even aware FMV game came out after MGS1, so no that wasn't what I meant at all. They were an early to mid 90s experiment that nobody liked.
If nobody liked them why are they still being made? It's niche, of course someone that only cares about popular games wouldn't be aware of them.
Point is, cinematic gameplay was spearheaded by FMV games whether you like it or not.
The systems these games were made for usually sucked just as hard as the games themselves and they had jackshit for a game library in the first place. You took what you could get and most devs thought that the best use of CD technology was to use it for "interactive movies" that looked and played like shit.
They're still being made, contemporary FMV games exist. Some people like interactive stories, including Kojima.
Hard Line and Phantasmagoria 2 are actually pretty great for what they are.
If you want playable B-movies, they're good playable B-movies. The gameplay isn't going to blow you away, but the point is the experience.
>great voice acting
>MGS1
I mean it's easily the best of the good MGS games, but that's not a high bar to surpass.
ive played it recently and the voice acting is genuinely great
MGS1's voice acting is great even today with only very minor hiccups (Meryl calling Otacon "Ohda-con"). Back then though, it was fricking shocking how good the voice acting was compared to most other games at the time.
Snake has 1 tone of voice. That works for a static character like Snake Plissken, but the tough guy grunting through love on a battlefield is overdone.
Snake's voice is more iconic than Mario's voice.
Both their voices got worse as they kept doing them, and Hayter took too many liberties when it came to MGS4 as if he actually owned the character. He only thought that because his voice as Snake was genuinely the most recognizable and it still is being imitated by gamers every day for no reason other than it sticks in their mind as a memorable performance.
MGS2 is basically centered around the meta theme of so many people loving Solid Snake and wanting to play as this hero in another game. Hayter didn't detract one bit from the game or its impact no matter what you pretend.
>iconic
>memorable
There are lots of performances that are iconic and memorable that still aren't great examples of acting. I don't dispute that Hayter's performance is either of those things, but I think it's ill-fitting for the character. On the other hand, it can also be said that the character is ill-fitting for the game's scenario.
I think the performance is very fitting for the character, but there are certain lines that kind of sound strange coming out of his mouth. But you can attribute that to japanese autistic writing much more than you can attribute it to his fault as a voice actor imo. He plays what snake is for 95% of the game very well
nta When I think of Snake's voice I think of Arin before David.
which is just an impression of David Hayter's voice
Impressions are cariacatures which obfuscate and even supercede the subject itself
A lot of people do that impression but they don't call it an impression of Hayter or Egoraptor, they call it "Snake." That's because, in the mind of American gamers at least, Snake's voice *is* Hayter's voice.
It's like William Shatner and Captain Kirk. You can't separate them because Shatner's unique style took over the character. Kojima has been pissed that people like Hayter ever since MGS4 when he learned how much he changed the character's voice, which I can understand since Hayter sounds absolutely terrible in a few cutscenes while still sounding great in others when he is yelling.
I specified Arin because he's not the original voice, that's the point I was making. Parodies can supercede their source material.
>Snake has 1 tone of voice.
Not in MGS1, zoomie zoom zoom zoomoid zoomerino killyourselferino
Based.
Based moron.
We've had the argument, bro. You're wrong.
Serious FMV games are still being made, it's not exclusively a tongue in cheek game genre. You'd know this if you bothered to look things up rather than rely on your intuition for objective information, this goes for both of you.
Kojima wanted Snake in Melee which is a mascot fighting game so clearly Kojima thought of snake as a mascot. When Kojima left Konami for his own new company he used Ludens from Death Stranding as a mascot because believe it or not, Kojima likes mascots.
Anyways, whatever you thought MGS did that was so influential was done by other games long before. Fully voice acted in-engine cutscenes utilizing cinematographic techniques had already been done by Panzer Dragoon Saga, for example.
Yea ok buddy, everyone cares about your nu-FMV games. They're not all garbage I swear!
No they are all garbage non games sorry to inform you.
I know you don't care, that's why you were embarrassed by your ignorance of them. Sorry to hurt your feelings to the point you felt a need to hurt mine, feel better soon.
>Just because you don't like my favorite, Plumbers Don't Wear Ties and its HD remaster on Steam doesn't mean FMV games aren't games reee!
No son, they are not games. Just like visual novels aren't games
And that's why no one even acknowledges their existence when talking about games
I'm not contesting your opinion, just pointing out that if your awareness of FMV games stops at what YouTubers reviewed then your opinion on them is quite worthless.
It's incredibly ignorant to proclaim something "not a game" just because it uses footage of real actors.
Phantasmagoria 2 is every bit a game, as any other adventure game. It's got puzzles. It's got a degree of freedom to explore your environment. What do you want?
Also no, MGS was not the first serious movie game.
You can say this all day, and you'll still be wrong.
I don't think you even know what you mean by "serious". It's a game filled with corny Japanese humour.
This is a French FMV game from 1996
>first game to have cinematics blended seamlessly with the actual gameplay
Nah
>all these anons seething over MGS
love to see it
I like MGS.
I would disagree that it's "the most influential game of all time", when it wasn't even that original in the grand scheme of Kojima games.
Most of the game design is copy and pasted from Metal Gear 2, and Kojima had already made several cinematic style adventure games by that point.
What did this game do that was so new? It was advertised to Americans. That's all.
>What did this game do that was so new?
Real-time 3D cutscenes with voice acting that was far above the standard of the day.
Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Also, it's funny that we're still pretending MGS has really good voice acting.
>YEAH OKAY STAR WARS INFLUENCED PEOPLE BUT STAR TREK WAS RELEASED BEFOREHAND SO REALLY STAR TREK IS REAPONSIBLE! YOU KNOW THEY DID SPECIAL EFFECTS IN SPACE IN 1969 WITH "2001 A SPACE ODYSSEY"?? STAR WARS MEANT NOTHING IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS!
this is what you sound like
Star Wars is not "the most influential movie of all time". That would be Citizen Kane, if not The Wizard of Oz or something, and yes 2001 was a huge leap forward in terms of special effects.
Don't make absurd claims like that, and we can get along.
No one cares that you like MGS. It's a good game.
>Citizen Kane
Now I know you are fricking with me...
You realize Citizen Kane was an obscure failed film until decades later some French film snobs determined it was the best film ever made, right?
It didn't influence shit.
The directors/editors who made all the movies you're going to call "the real influential movies" used Citizen Kane as a framework for how to shoot and visually tell those stories.
I would definitely pick MGS over OoT (in influence, I think MGS is kinda shit)
I'd say Mario 64>MGS>Half-Life>>>>the rest
Those are the three most influential, but that's not to say they're the most impressive. Cause I think System Shock blows the frick out of all 3 of those
Nothing from the 5th gen of consoles is "the most influential of all time". That was when all of the big ideas had kind of been hashed out and were being refined.
Mario 64 wasn't the first game to approach the idea of doing a platformer in 3D. It was maybe the first really really good one though. That's everything in the 5th gen. They were the fully realised versions of things that were experimented with in arcades or dorkier computer games a few years earlier.
Ok but I don't count half-realized ideas as the real thing. The real thing is the real thing. Realized. And for that it has to be good, something that stands on its own two feet as a product that people greatly enjoy
That's not being influential though. Influential stuff is rough, and visionary. And the actual "good" stuff usually comes a little way down the line of that.
Flash Gordon is influential, but Star Wars is good. That's the distinction.
>Flash Gordon is influential, but Star Wars is good. That's the distinction.
Flash Gordon and movie serials were long abandoned and forgotten when Star Wars came out. Lucas was inspired by them, but everyone else was inspired by Lucas.
This isn't hard to understand.
You wouldn't argue that Rome has less influence on civilization than Ancient China just because it was first and bigger.
That's literally what I said. Star Wars is the good version of Flash Gordon. It was made by a more competent film maker.
You can't say it's "the most influential movie of all time", when it's literally just a pastiche of several other things though.
What idea did Star Wars bring to the table? Being a good movie, and having an obscene amount of merchandising?
>You can't say it's "the most influential movie of all time", when
that's actually a pretty easy argument to make since Star Wars is still widely cited by people as an inspiration across multiple fields.
It's not the most influential movie of all time.
The idea that any movie made as late as 1979 is the most influential of all time is absurd to begin with.
You can argue over whether most influential of all time is a silent film, or a talkie, or something in colour, but it's not Star Wars. That's ridiculous.
That's like saying Metallica are the most influential band of all time.
>1979
...
77, whatever.
>WU-OH! YOU MIXED IT UP WITH ALIEN, BECAUSE YOU DON'T DOUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING IN WIKIPEDIA! I GUESS YOU LOSE, BUDDY!
The really influential movies were happening before the 50's, man.
One can say that it was very influential, but actually calculcating what the most influential movie of all time is would be essentially impossible which makes debating it moot.
People say Citizen Kane, because it pioneered so many film making techniques that became standard.
Idk. I'm not knowledgeable enough to disagree.
The funny thing is, try googling "most influential movies of all time" it gives meca list of 50 films and Citizen Kane isn't even included. Which isn't to say it shouldn't be, but rather that the business of trying to suss out what is influential, to how many people and to what degree is basically an impossible task.
NTA but I googled it and the first two lists that popped up had Citizen Kane on it. I'm honestly not a big fan of this movie though
Will to Power pioneered more film making techniques than Citizen Kane.
>It was made by a more competent film maker.
Lucas is a moron. Star Wars is bad and exists to sell merch and nothing more. Big fricking deal if it inspired innumerable homosexuals.
Bait.
>It was the first big moviegame, which have been a disaster for the industry.
Because developers missed the point and didn't see what their games were like if you took away the cutscenes. Metal Gear Solid has fun Pac-Man maze shenanigans, laser traps, unique vehicle and character bosses, and just the right length of game.
>Resident evil predates mgs
Resident Evil is also extremely based.
>Half-Life 1 & 2 were never good.
This, they exist for PC builder gays to show off their machines. I build vintage PC's specifically to play shit like Wizardry in CGA or Diablo II 1.09b with native Glide support. I'll take my simple and engaging toaster games anyday.
>Lucas is a moron
Reddit opinion. Lucas is legitimately some kind of film making savant. It's actually kind of insane how good the original Star Wars is, and that's the one he actually directed.
>Flash Gordon and movie serials were long abandoned and forgotten when Star Wars came out.
The reason Lucas made Star Wars in the first place was that he was rejected from the Flash Gordon film De Laurentiis wanted to produce (and eventually did in 1980)
>The reason Lucas made Star Wars in the first place was that he was rejected from the Flash Gordon film De Laurentiis wanted to produce (and eventually did in 1980)
And don't forget that Star Wars stole a shit load of designs from the Jodorowsky's Dune project that never got made. Lucas was always a fricking hack.
Not really. The Jodorowsky Dune project was being worked on by Chris Foss and HR Giger. Star Wars was Ralph McQuarrie. Completely different visual style.
If anything, Alien was the the result of Jodorowsky's dune. That's how Giger and Dan O'Bannon got together.
The problem is you think that Flash Gordon is responsible for everything that Star Wars is responsible for instead of just inspiring Star Wars and then Star Wars being the thing that inspired a million things
It has to be realized, otherwise people don't care. Why would they care? Arma mods invented battle royale, but it was PUBG where it was realized, and that was the big explosion. The big explosion wasn't because of the Arma mods
Well, no. Star Wars also largely ripped of Kursawa movies, and WW2 movies, and, and Westerns, and Edgar Rice Burroughs.
Star Wars actually did very little, apart from just be a good movie that was in the right place at the right time.
There was even an immensely popular sci-fi movie franchise before Star Wars. That was Planet of the Apes.
Let's not forget about another influential space movie: The Moon Landing (1969) dir. Stanley Kubrick
I would argue that Tetris is more influential. For one it made and still makes many people who don't think they would like playing a game discover that they actually do. It's so ubiquitous that Tetrising things has become a verb that anyone understands when used. Metal Gear isn't even close to either of those things.
No game dev cites Tetris as an inspiration. It's just a fun time-waster like most games until MGS1, when it left every other game in the dust.
>No game dev cites Tetris as an inspiration.
That's a laughable claim considering it basically sparked an entire genre.
I guess it depends what you consider influential to refer to.
That first reason also applies to games like Candy Crush. Puzzle games have that power of luring in casuals.
Tetris is definitely worth talking about, but influence in the realm of video game development, not in the realm of culture because in that case yeah Tetris btfo of Half-Life and MGS but that's not really what the topic is about
I metal geared your mom with my solid snake.
:O
You know, it's now considered '''r*ddit''' for some reason but I've always enjoyed Half-Life's approach to storytelling the most. In that regard it's better than OoT and MGS1. It wasn't as dramatic though for obvious reasons
That's nothing to be proud of zoomer.
The other thing that never gets mentioned is that influence is also about something being popular so of course it triggers /vr/ to say that the popular things are usually some of the most influential. I mean it's just capitalism. It's how we want things to work
never gets mentioned in these threads*
Right, because Pacman was never popular. Myst was never popular. Alone in the Dark was never popular.
You're literally doing the thing. "If I didn't play it on PlayStation when I was 7 years old, it isn't real".
You just have a narrow frame of reference.
Pacman is very influential. Don't think anyone would deny that. Did Pacman contribute to 3d gaming in any way? No not really
Myst? Yeah pretty influential. Not sure why you'd get upset that people chose another game over it. Are most games made nowadays adventure games? No. So...
Alone in the Dark. Cool game. Pretty experimental though. Short. Sweet. Not bad. But not really great either. The sequels are even worse. Now Resident Evil? Fricking BANGER m8. And that makes all the difference. Sorry to tell you this
You just seem really mad that most people here aren't 40 years old and still on Ganker like you
I'm not 40 years old. I have an actual interest in the history of games and where things came from. I'm not here to just elevate one game I played as a child to "the most important thing ever", because that's sad.
I didn't play SM64, Half-Life or MGS as a child. Infact I hated all 3 games when I played them as a teenager. They are the 3 most influential games ever
I'm also willing to replace one of them with GTA3 or Tetris.
They're just not. Pacman is the most influential game ever, if anything. That was where the line was drawn in the sand, and developers got the idea that they could focus on developing a character and a world, and use the game as a form of story telling, as opposed to vague representations of Tennis, or shooting a UFO.
If you want to talk 3D, either the stuff Id Software or Infogrames or the stuff Sega was doing in the arcades was more important.
If you want to talk cinematics and storytelling, then adventure games and cinematic platformers like Another World had been in swing since the 80's. This is also where Kojima started, with Snatcher.
If you want to talk voice acting, there were full FMV movie games like Dragon's Lair, or Mad Dog McCree.
>cool except these less well-known games did it first
again, whodun it first is not the point.
I'm willing to see your Pacman opinion even if Pacman has little to do with what games are nowadays
but the others, no
The point is that MGS is not the most influential game of all time. Not really sure why anyone would think it was.
Trying to discredit what MGS represents by breaking it into parts like saying it's Pac-Man + Dragon's Lair is the thing I'm not sure why anyone would do unless they were extremely butthurt that MGS is a very popular and important video game
It's not the most influential game of all time.
You probably only think that because a journalist said it at some point.
I genuinely don't understand the logic. It's more influential than Pac-Man, or Mario, or any of the games that pioneered 3D games, or cinematic storytelling in games, because the cutscenes were pretty good for the time?
>Doom, Quake, Half-Life
Frick off with that fps slop.
FPS is chiefly responsible for developing (good) 3D design.
This is correct, though people who haven't played many historical FPS will seethe because they probably look down on the genre.
As an example, it took western FPS devs way less time to create what is essentially the modern shooter than it took Japanese 3D action game devs to do the equivalent. It took from 1992-1996 for Quake to emerge from FPS. Most shooters derive from Quake's mechanics if not literally its engine which includes Half-Life. Quake 1 is so much closer to how Doom Eternal functions than DMC1 is to DMC5.
What a pedestrian, Youtube-tier "opinion". Metal Gear was never good, guys, just give it a rest.
What a pedestrian, Ganker-tier "opinion". Metal Gear was always good, guys, just give it a rest.
People like to say this and OoT are highly influential. To me, Half Life is influential due to the amount of games with a similar gameplay/plot. You can tell they literally said "I want to make a game like this". How many games play like MGS? After all, the "ingame cinematic" was quite common during the 16b era.
>How many games play like MGS?
Not that many, actually.
The stealth genre had a short burst of popularity, but it basically all just gave way to Call of Duty style military action games.
What people liked about MGS was the aesthetic. "Dude, it's like a real action movie!". Stealth actually isn't a very popular genre. It's probably just below survival horror as a niche.
Ask a normie and they'll say "I just don't like hiding in the shadows and waiting around the entire game".
>Ask a normie and they'll say "I just don't like hiding in the shadows and waiting around the entire game".
Based normalgays.
>After all, the "ingame cinematic" was quite common during the 16b era.
what a chickenshit way to dismiss a fully 3D motion-captured and voice-acted...
are you going to talk about how Fantasy (1981) had a voice acted opening movie sequence too? jeez... guess MGS wasnt special after all.......
>fully 3D motion-captured and voice-acted...
MGS wasn't motion captured though.
So did it take MGS to make others realize they could do the same? Doubt. Pretty much during the cd-rom era console games were already including voice acting. I think MGS is one of the best games of its generation, no doubt. But I'm not sure how it influenced others.
Pretty sure MGS isn't motion captured.
If it is, it doesn't show.
Incidentally, Turok had motion capture. That was a selling point at the time.
I think Half-Life is influential because of how consistent the big sprite era FPS games were in structure.
Like look at Wolf3D/Doom/Duke3D/Blood/Half-Life and just look at how each game starts. Those others are very much set in the arcade appeal of computer games complete with points, high scores, and other various stat tracking. Half-Life is more of an appeal to the experiential appeal of computer games where it's trying to create a diorama of a believable world in order to place you into the experience of the fictional scenario. And that experiential appeal simply describes most shooters if not most games period since the late 90s. I don't argue that Half-Life invented that, but the pre and post-HL1 feel of the genre is palpable.
>Movie Game Slop
it popularized movie games thus ruining gaming forever
Second floor basement?
This, Half-Life, and Ocarina of Time all steered video games in the direction of more focus on story. For better.
We already have anime for that.
Imagine thinking the one thing games should focus on is the one thing that goes completely against their whole purpose- fun and interactivity. You want a story?, read a book or watch a movie.
I can only speak for myself but I find 80's era "dragon took princess save princess" stories lacking. I enjoy games that have a little bit more going on.
Too much story can be an issue when it gets in the way of the gameplay, but as long as that doesn't happen the more the better.
Stories can't be fun and interactive?
Half-Life 1 & 2 were never good.
I'm watching Laurence Sontag play this right now and it has terrible anime style autistic voice acting and writing. Holy hell I guess if u were 13 when it came out it'd be some seriously bad ass ride. I'll take the og half life.
none of my favorite games have stealth mechanics.
Popularity is not influence. The Velvet Underground and Nico sold like shit but is well known to have spawned countless other bands as a result.
On that note, MGS was about as vaguely influential on the industry as Panzer Dragoon Saga
It influenced nothing. The gameplay, not including the boss fights, is stolen from Castle Wolfenstein and the cutscenes are stolen from Wing Commander. Even the crouch walking that appeared in the non-retro games is ripped from Splinter Cell. Kojima came up with hiding in a cardboard box and using porn mags to distract enemies. Featured in 0 /vr/ games
>This is the most influential game ever made, objectively.
I would recognize influence from MGS1 if I sense the following:
>surprisingly consistent mix of realistic and overtly supernatural elements in the aesthetics, tone, themes, or story
>cinematic camerawork in cutscenes that takes after big budget Hollywood movies which generally emphasize action
>odd placement of emotional self-discovery melodrama in what is otherwise a serious, tense survival scenario so the writer can wax on their themes
These are the things that stand out uniquely to me about MGS1 that I can't see much in games I played that were released before it or in the same year.
I'm not really seeing it with games I've played recently or in my all time favorites.
Oh great it gave us movie games
MGS sucked back then and it sucks even more now
Doesn't matter. It was still the blueprint for the modern game going forward
>Phantasmagoria 2 is also 1996
Oh, LMAO. I thought that was like 99.
>ever made
You're supposed to say "of all time" any chance you get. wtf.
god kojimagays are the worst. policenauts and snatcher arent even that good.
Never played them but Kojima is who made me appreciate games.
Before MGS1 I used to skip all story and cutscenes while using cheats/gameshark to never die and have all weapons to simply reach the end of the game. My only goal was to reach the end because I was only like 5.
Then my brother bought MGS1 and let me play it because he didn't like it, and I played it like I always played games twice. Both times Meryl died because I skipped the torture, and when I reached the codec with Meryl talking to Snake the first time I stopped to wonder why the music always cuts out during this codec. I decided to reset the game without cheats and play normally to hear what the story was, and it changed my life forever.
>Before MGS1 I used to skip all story and cutscenes while using cheats/gameshark to never die
So MGS1 made you not moronic thats interesting
yeah MGS is soul and kino
MGS>>>OOT
OOT has giant bean buttons that are always telling you what to do, in MGS there's a smart action button that basically does everything so the game looks sleek and is immersive.
There's a ketchup button in MGS, neat
At best we could accept that MGS is an influential game in some regards, but most influential of all time?
There are two ways a game can be influential:
1) It was actually the first to do something.
2) It had an obvious influence on future games.
Number 1 is almost only true concerning very old games, because the first games were obviously the first. MGS did what first? Stealth? Of course not. Cutscenes? Other games did it before. Movie-like cinematography? So movies were the actual influence? American movies being an influence on Kojima is extremely obvious, even if you are not willing to accept that fact for MGS. Just look at Snatcher. We're not going to claim that a Japanese man influenced by American movies was the first to influence game devs (including Americans) to put american-movie-like bullshit in their game.
The issue is that you can't just say that a game is influential because it was, in your opinion, the first to do something better than the other. You could argue (I would not) that MGS was the first game to execute the stealth-action-movie formula greatly. That's irrelevant in regards to its influence.
As for number 2, it's very obvious that MGS influence is limited. People have mentioned Resident Evil in this thread, so let's pick it as an example. Do you know how many fricking bullshit RE-likes there are on the PS1 and PS2, that appeared after RE1? A lot. How many games like MGS has there been after MGS? Would you consider Splinter Cell as an example? Stealth doesn't come just from MGS. I would also link Splinter Cell style of grounded spy story more to something like Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (it also came out before MGS) than MGS. Cutscenes? It was done before, as was said before.
Kojima has a specific style and everybody knows it. The fact that only Kojima makes Kojima games to this day shows that MGS influence is limited.
However, reading this thread, you obviously refuse to understand that very obvious point.
Yeah, long cutscenes was bad but you can't deny the voice acting, story, music, characters, and narrative were all masterpieces in of high tier.
little kid back in the 90s could never see a better example of Video Games as Art after coming from NES and it's formulaic "1 hit die side-scroller" era
N64 didn't offer anything better.
That doesn't make it "the most influential game of all time".
>little kid back in the 90s could never see a better example of Video Games as Art
That's because you were a kid, and you had played a very narrow variety of games at that point, and you probably thought Kojima's shonen anime writing was "real shit", because again, you were a kid.
I'm going to keep hammering this in. Phantasmagoria 2 is older than MGS, and it's a more mature, serious cinematic game for adults, than what MGS was.
Phantasmagoria 2 is like a good lower budget movie. MGS is like a really corny anime for ten year olds, where we joke about getting turned on by the girl's panties, and the theme is "bee yourself".
Mario 64 is way more influential. World of Warcraft too and a good few more.
Half-Life did narrative way better than MGS 1 did.
Herro, op. It's me, Hideo Kojima. I am pleased with your post. As a reward, you may gently caress my balls with your tongue for one minute.
Where does the series go from here now that big boss, the patriots, and solid snake are dead?
Raiden was set up to carry the series forward, but they're not making more anyway.
They're just going to remake all of the old ones for the next ten years, and then maybe reboot Solid Snake, because that would be the easy way to go about it.
they could remake mg1 and mg2, along with portable ops because that game is kind of a cluster frick. I wonder what the plans are for otacon and all the other surviving characters.
Remember when everyone thought MGSV would "end" and then transition into a full Fox Engine remake of MG1 with David Hayter finally showing up as Solid Snake? Instead the game just stops...
That's because kojima got fired, but I somehow doubt that he would have brought back David.
Kojima has zero interest in how much fans like Hayter. He just want to make his "real movie games" with "real actors". That was his dream all along.
>Remember when everyone thought MGSV would "end" and then transition into a full Fox Engine remake of MG1 with David Hayter finally showing up as Solid Snake?
Yeah, redditors and their moronic fanficitons haha, even Kojima won't make something so tasteless
Those two years leading to TPP were insane on/v/, mgs threads up at any moment with serious discussion not just about hypotheticals but also about old games.
Its like TPP broke an entire generation of mgs fans as I havent seen a single thread about the franchise in the last decade that went into detail taking those games seriously.
I love Wizardry
Mogged
I agree with all the previous comments.
And, after all these years, what has MGS legacy come to?
Fapping to Quiet's cutscenes in MGSV?
Oh boy....