>play spy like a fricking moron >change the entire dynamic of the server and reshape its meta for the next few hours
No other game could do this. Kino video
>Ambassador is seen as a sidegrade next to the old OP Enforcer back in the day and used at close range >Enforcer gets nerfed while Ambassador stays the same >Spy gets his survivability boosted in and becomes more annoying to hunt down >Some spies now use the Ambassador to become a mini Sniper that can pick at you with 102 damage shots and disappear whenever he wants >This gets nerfed because it's very annoying to deal with >Ambassador is back to just being a weapon that could compete with the old OP Enforcer >but Sniper-minigays complain that the weapon is useless now because it's impossible to hit heads at close range, while also arguing that no one used it in the way that got nerfed either but they're still mad they can't use it like that
There was no valid reasons for nerfing the ambassador, and worst of all, that doesn't even matter.
People talk about "in theory" and people talk about subjective aspects of the weapon and class such as what is and isn't a valid subclass, and what should and shouldn't be the spies class identity, and how annoying they personally find the weapon, but none of that is a real or valid reason to nerf a weapon that survived the crucible of balancing, with its 0 balance changes over the 8 years it was in the game pre-nerf, and it never being banned from any competitive format.
Unfortunately none of that matters either, the weapon was nerfed because an engineer main named Sigafoo personally found it frustrating to play against, and was very lucky getting to go to valve and talk to them regarding his opinion on the weapon add to this TF2's development team having slowly dropped in quality over the recent years, with many questionable choices (bison nerf, Claidheamh Mòr nerf, eviction notice nerf, MYM matchmaker, just to name a few)
Valve not getting a good feel for the communities perception of the ambassador before putting out a a public announcement, then cemented that any further observations would be forever tainted by said announcement, Additionally anyone who hadn't played extensively with the weapon has just had any negative experience with the weapon solidified as being unfair, this quickly led to a band wagon effect against the weapon, and anyone not in the in group being treated quite harshly by the worst parts of the community, and this just cemented valves misinformed opinion on the weapon.
>his post is entirely about the weapon itself >your post is entirely about a community member you don't like
He is right and you are wrong for that reason alone.
Wrong about what?
Why ambassador was nerfed?
Because the post just explained that. Real reason moronic balance changes like amby, sandman nerf happened out of nowhere. But keep on coping like a bunch of Gankerirgins "opinions" here ever mattered when it came to tf2 balance changes. It was the comptards, israelitetubers and steam forum crybabies that influenced part time tf2 dev team when ti came to which guns to nerf.
>person/group I don't like wanted it, that means I have to hate it! >muh community drama!!
Again, you are wrong for that reason alone.
Also, I find it funny that you're telling me to "keep on coping" when you're the one crying about a nerf that's not going to get reverted.
11 months ago
Anonymous
the frick you on about anon?
did i say a forbidden word that triggered your autism?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Like I said, the original post you replied to was entirely about the weapon itself, and you replied with a paragraph whining about some community drama. You have still yet to type even one sentence about the weapon itself and why the nerf is bad or unnecessary, your entire "argument" is based solely on community drama.
11 months ago
Anonymous
[...]
I should also clarify, I don't give a shit about the weapon and whether the nerf was justified or unjustified. Arguing about it is completely pointless because we all know Valve isn't doing shit with it one way or another, but he was actually talking about the weapon whereas all you were doing is whining about community drama and calling him a sheep for not mindlessly disagreeing with someone you don't like.
yep autism triggered > I don't give a shit about the weapon and whether the nerf was justified or unjustified
gtfo along with your greentext shitpost
11 months ago
Anonymous
Again, ironic, but okay.
11 months ago
Anonymous
He's a Sataniaposter. Being moronic is their forte.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Like I said, the original post you replied to was entirely about the weapon itself, and you replied with a paragraph whining about some community drama. You have still yet to type even one sentence about the weapon itself and why the nerf is bad or unnecessary, your entire "argument" is based solely on community drama.
I should also clarify, I don't give a shit about the weapon and whether the nerf was justified or unjustified. Arguing about it is completely pointless because we all know Valve isn't doing shit with it one way or another, but he was actually talking about the weapon whereas all you were doing is whining about community drama and calling him a sheep for not mindlessly disagreeing with someone you don't like.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>he believes compgays aren't responsible for moronic nerfs >meet your match happened, an update Valve dedicated to compgays specifically getting input from compgays
>sandman nerf happened out of nowhere
Sandman was a controversial weapon from day one and even when valve made it so you could move when stunned they said they still weren't entirely happy with the weapon. It didn't come out of nowhere and it's really obvious it's a weapon they would just remove from the game if they could.
>how dare heavy have a fun/funny melee with so few drawbacks
i'm shocked to shit that the holiday punch isn't gutted as hard as the sandman >but you actually have to land a hit on their backs or get a crit!
no excuses, either all or nothing homosexual
>i'm shocked to shit that the holiday punch isn't gutted as hard as the sandman
You're shocked a melee on the slowest class in the game isn't as broken as a long range stun on the fastest class in the game?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>isn't as broken as
again, no excuses. the sandman was nerfed explicitly because "taking control away from the player is not fun". meanwhile the holiday punch gets a free pass.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You don't understand game balance at all.
11 months ago
Anonymous
i do, actually. remove the ability to stun people and all will be balanced
The amby is like sniper. Sure playing against some god tier insta headshot player is annoying but they were/are rare and few between. Most people couldnt hit amby headshots to save their lives then and they still can't now. Nerfing it was just a frick you to the community because valve hates you.
>>This gets nerfed because it's very annoying to deal with
skill issue
is back to just being a weapon that could compete with the old OP Enforcer
Nice horseshit. Here's the truth https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16itedDnO3LmMQbqDSupf_wlOnFe9mhLwpOscs-kmfME/edit#gid=205894647
Even in if you headshot 100% of the time, it's a strict downgrade against all enemies a set range you have to know and make sure you're at, on top of constatnly head-shotting >>but Sniper-minigays complain that the weapon is useless now because it's impossible to hit heads at close range, while also arguing that no one used it in the way that got nerfed either but they're still mad they can't use it like that
again, nice horseshit. If you can't tell the difference between noticing a weapon being useless, compared to every alternative all with much lower requirements on the user, including when exclusively head-shotting in every situation except the one where perfect head-shotting instead results in 10.4 extra dps if the enemy hadn't died from being picked 29 and a half times the regular would have done in that time, and your own inability to grasp that if a sniper gets out-sniped by someone from sniper distance without the ability to scope or charge, that the sniper really just needs to get better, are you then for holding every other weapon (except sniper rifles) to a standard consistent with that?
Like the direct hit? Constantly hitting with it would do worse damage than regular splash damage at all but one range (preferably when the enemy is literally touching you to make up for how much easier it is to direct hit someone than head-shot them) where it does 14 extra dps, and if anyone says it's moronic that just proves that they only used it to randomly fire at a corner to catch low-hp that might show up, right?
The data you're using as reference is completely moronic. It assumes that the revolver has perfect accuracy when spamming and only assumes that you always only go for headshots or always only go for bodyshots with the Ambassador.
It should go without saying that you can mix the two to hit breakpoints past facehugging range faster than with the stock revolver. On top of that Spy is a stealthy pick class who benefits from his first shot when he is undetected doing a lot of damage more than direct combat classes.
Think for yourself instead of parroting some youtuber who can't even get his data right.
According to that data, the Ambassador was always worse than the revolver at anything other than sniper range.
Needless to say, this doesn't reflect how it was actually used in game even pre-nerf.
if you're really good at killing enemies who are already aware of you, with it, it's probably the best. I'm not, so I go Big Earner. Anything that makes you faster is also just fun in any game.
The onky scenario where the kunai is worse than stock is when you get hit by a stray projectile that wasn't intended for you while youre uncloaked and haven't backstabbed anyone. In any scenario where enemies are aware of you the kunai is either better because you just stabbed someone, or equal because you're going to die.
Stock, sure. but If my alternatives are
low damage-output class unless you get close and to a specific angle of a higher damage-outputting enemy and a health boost, or
low-damage output class unless you get close and to a specific angle of a higher damage-outputting enemy and a speed boost,
I'll probably always pick the latter
I have around 8k kills on this iirc. It's really fricking good, 3 shots light classes and does 21 damage even at max falloff which is great for picking off homies.
Is there any trick to git gud with the bullet spread or is it just a matter of using the weapon more? Feels like my shots always miss, but I also don't play much spy.
>just to clear up a small confusion: the wall being shot at starting at 0:53 is about 16640 units away >it only looks close because the fov is set to 15, since i wanted it to be zoomed far in to easily show the spread sizes relative to each other
this is the the pinned comment from that video
I don't find the bullet spread to be much of an issue. I usually engage enemies mid-range, provided my crosshair stays on the enemies the vast majority of shots will connect. As for the aim, I don't really have any tips except just playing with it. For some reason I'm really good at aiming the revolver but suck absolute balls at sniper.
Bullet spread on revolvers is really annoying, but if you delay your shots and don't just spam away the accuracy resets
I don't find the bullet spread to be much of an issue. I usually engage enemies mid-range, provided my crosshair stays on the enemies the vast majority of shots will connect. As for the aim, I don't really have any tips except just playing with it. For some reason I'm really good at aiming the revolver but suck absolute balls at sniper.
[...]
To be fair that's a massive range
Just remembered that this video exists. I've been playing basically the same way as shown here for years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUsoXPeX8j0
it's how you're meant to deal with most enemies as spy. picking off low health or priority targets, attacking with the element of surprise, and occasionally going for backstabs where appropriate.
the revolver is extremely underrated
it's reliable damage to pick someone off when you're out of backstab range, spies just don't use it because backstabs provide too much dopamine
Valve screwed over the Artifact fanbase by cancelling the Artifact 2.0 beta without even allowing users to invite friends like they said they would in January 2021 and does not deserve your financial support for these gross consumer-unfriendly practices.
>20 extra damage while disguised, useful for finishing off injured targets without relying on janky head hitboxes like the amby >pierces damage resistances, fricking over medics and banners >slower fire rate is meaningless since you won't want to ever hold the button with the revolver anyways
The enforcer is underrated.
The axetinguisher was good because it was a pyro weapon
The sun on a stick is shit because it's literally doing nothing unless there's a pyro on your team and then it limits you to fighting near the pyro at all times if you want to make use of it.
>Remember when this thing was considered broken for doing precisely what the sun on the stick does?
The difference is that pyro has 1000 ways to apply the status effect needed for it to be broken whereas scout has zero.
This is not a difficult concept.
So a weapon you'll use sometimes vs the stock bat you'll never use.
Meanwhile any time you are with a pyro you have the equivalent of an unnerfed axetinguisher on top of having a better speed than pyro.
This is not a difficult concept.
11 months ago
Anonymous
A useless weapon vs another useless weapon. Wjen you could instead be using literally anyother Scout melee weapon which are all actually useful. Or at least using the fish for the memes.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Scout's melees often have a habit of being a complete upgrade on stock and getting called bad for no fricking reason.
Oh hey.
[...]
Are you two fricking dense?
Scout cannot apply the status effect his weapon requires to function, whereas pyro can apply it very easily. That is the fricking difference, that is what I am talking about.
What part of "any time you are with a pyro" did you not get?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>What part of "any time you are with a pyro" did you not get?
Do you understand that you are not always with a pyro? Whereas a pyro is never without fire damage? Again, this is not a difficult concept, I can only assume you have some sort of severe brain damage.
Even putting that aside in any case, part of the reason axtinguisher was so strong was because of airblast, because a key part of the puff n sting playstyle was to airblast your victim into a wall or corner so that they couldn't escape your axe, and scout can't do that either.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Do you understand that you are not always with a pyro?
If I didn't understand that I wouldn't have said "any time" would I?
why would you orbit a pyro that won't always exist so you can melee people instead of just fricking shooting them with your incredibly strong primary
Why are you assuming orbiting a pyro? Having a medic is a advantage, do you assume you're expected to orbit your team's medic at all times?
Except the sun on a stick is the ONLY scout melee that's worse than stock 90% of the time. Consider that when you're in melee range of someone who's on fire, you could just fricking shoot them with your scattergun for 100+ damage (which can crit) instead of whacking them for 79 damage (which can't). And that's comparing it to stock bat, the worst melee weapon in the game, and not to the boston basher, which is better as a melee weapon 90% of the time, AND lets you build uber and jump higher, or the atomizer, which is probably better as a melee and gives you massive mobility, or the wrap assassin which gives you free damage at mid to long range and a way to frick up snipers.
> Consider that when you're in melee range of someone who's on fire, you could just fricking shoot them with your scattergun for 100+ damage (which can crit) instead of whacking them for 79 damage (which can't)
First solid argument made here since it didn't focus on the weapon being situational.
11 months ago
Anonymous
why would you orbit a pyro that won't always exist so you can melee people instead of just fricking shooting them with your incredibly strong primary
11 months ago
Anonymous
Except the sun on a stick is the ONLY scout melee that's worse than stock 90% of the time. Consider that when you're in melee range of someone who's on fire, you could just fricking shoot them with your scattergun for 100+ damage (which can crit) instead of whacking them for 79 damage (which can't). And that's comparing it to stock bat, the worst melee weapon in the game, and not to the boston basher, which is better as a melee weapon 90% of the time, AND lets you build uber and jump higher, or the atomizer, which is probably better as a melee and gives you massive mobility, or the wrap assassin which gives you free damage at mid to long range and a way to frick up snipers.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Stock bat's swing speed with melee crit chance cannot make it the worst. I'd give that to the shovel or heavy fists because of how bad they are at chasing.
11 months ago
Anonymous
If you are close enough to a target as a Scout you are better off just meatshoting them. His melee weapons work better as support tools because he is already designed around flanking enemies.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I use the bat all the time. It's great for finishing off lighter classes after you get one or two good meatshots off of them. A lot more reliable than switching to the pistol or trying to get another shotgun hit, especially if you're using one of the double-barrels.
Honestly Sun-on-a-stick is one of Scout’s best melees. Not for combat, but for survivability. Since burn damage is not proportional, it affects light classes the most and reducing burn damage is massive for Scout. A stray Scorch Shot or Cow Mangler shot means you can get to a health kit easily or even wait out the burn if you need to. It’s better than the Boston Basher, which is extremely overrated and only pushed by compgays because they can build over with it and do a psuedo triple jump.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Ifit was on wearer and not while deployed it would arguably be better than the boston basher. But again it only has that effect if you're getting hit by pyros which you shouldn't be doing 3v3n if there are enough pyros on the other team to justify it. And that is IF they made it always active. As it is it only reduces afterburn by 1 for about half the duration of the afterburn. You would be better off with the candy cane in any scenario where this would matter except one where you're playing scout and struggling with pyros but there are also tons of demos and soldiers. Unlike the basher which is only bad if your team has no medic (an actually good class unlike the pyro) AND you don't need the mobility (which is also basically only on some specific parts of some maps). More mobility is always going to be better than slightly higher survivability against the second worst class in the game and only when you're playing against them wrong. That's to say nothing of the fact that the basher, atomizer, and assassin are also better offensive weapons too.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>You would be better off with the candy cane in any scenario where this would matter
Candy Cane has the explosive damage vulnerability, unlike soas it's one of scout's few melees with a downside that actually matters.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Now read the next sentence after that.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Enemy team having demos and soldiers is pretty much a given.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes but the enmy tema having multiple demos, soldiers, and pyros is less likely. And even less likely is that you'll be struggling with the pyros specifically.
>Remember when this thing was considered broken for doing precisely what the sun on the stick does?
The difference is that pyro has 1000 ways to apply the status effect needed for it to be broken whereas scout has zero.
This is not a difficult concept.
The axetinguisher was good because it was a pyro weapon
The sun on a stick is shit because it's literally doing nothing unless there's a pyro on your team and then it limits you to fighting near the pyro at all times if you want to make use of it.
Pyro has to get close to you with his limited ranged options. If he gets within melee distance, you already fricked up. Axtinguisher was balanced.
11 months ago
Anonymous
This wasn't about the unjustified and moronic axetinguisher nerf. This was about how the sun on a stick is a dogshit weapon.
11 months ago
Anonymous
[...]
So a weapon you'll use sometimes vs the stock bat you'll never use.
Meanwhile any time you are with a pyro you have the equivalent of an unnerfed axetinguisher on top of having a better speed than pyro.
This is not a difficult concept.
Are you two fricking dense?
Scout cannot apply the status effect his weapon requires to function, whereas pyro can apply it very easily. That is the fricking difference, that is what I am talking about.
>Scout's melees often have a habit of being a complete upgrade on stock
You bring up scout but not Pyro?
>Axtingisuier is better as a finisher, the main point of melee on Pyro >Homewrecker is anti spy,which makes it have more value than stock >Powerjack is the only reason the class was playable before the update >Back scratcher, if you're in a pub without a medic it's a direct upgrade >Third degree, literal direct upgrade
Outside of Volcanic and the anti-water one every single one of his melee weapons is an upgrade over stock
Bushwacka is a direct upgrade because you always have a guaranteed 195 damage attack.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Not everyone runs broken-ass jarate
11 months ago
Anonymous
There's literally no reason not to run jarate. Razorback and Darwin's are there for unskilled players. Cozy is useless. SMG and Cleaner's are weak and pointless.
Stock is better because you always have a guaranteed 195 damage attack that doesn't rely on you having a jar of piss, hitting someone with that jar of piss and switching to your melee before the person kills you.
Reminder that if you die to Jarate+Bushwacka, it's entirely on you.
In what fricking world is a random crit guaranteed? You're a nonce.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>SMG and Cleaner's are weak and pointless. >In what fricking world is a random crit guaranteed?
Sounds like a skill issue.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The distance where the SMG works, you might as well go for the headshot. Crits are random, you might have a good chance at getting one, but why take the risk?
11 months ago
Anonymous
The distance where the SMG works is quite is quite far, actually. Unless you are cheating or just a massive loser, it's better to use the SMG as it is more reliable and dealing even a little damage is better than nothing. Plus, if you're gambling for a headshot, you might as well gamble for a random crit with the SMG.
If you're doing good, getting a random crit is going to be very likely and if you're not doing good, then getting a random crit is still considerably likely with your melee. Going for the melee instantly is better because by the time you would have taken to switch to your Jarate, throw it, switch to your melee and swung while having gotten in melee range and not dying; you could have swung twice with Stock and had two chances at getting random crits. Even if you didn't, a normal hit does 65 damage, meaning any light class would die anyway and 130 is still a lot of damage and people don't always have full health.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Stock is better because you always have a guaranteed 195 damage attack that doesn't rely on you having a jar of piss, hitting someone with that jar of piss and switching to your melee before the person kills you.
Reminder that if you die to Jarate+Bushwacka, it's entirely on you.
>vaccinator
still love how this weapon lives rent free in snipergays' heads in spite of how fricking useless it is >NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IM NOT ABLE TO INSTAKILL PEOPLE FROM A DISTANCE THEY CAN BARELY REACT TO ME FROM NOW
>banned in competitive >considered op in pubs due to its ability to focus the best players >gives free damage resistances to the medic who is meant to be the vulnerable target
>fricking banners
I can't imagine how often a spy is going to be gunning down a battalion's backup soldier with his banner active. Even if you ignore his damage resistance, he still has 220 hp and a far superior primary weapon.
true but you can tag his bannered teammates. That's not a very relevant use of the enforcer's damage resistance piercing, though, since it won't come up much.
It's more useful against the vaccinator, which people run sometimes and which is super annoying, but a lot of the time you can just stab them.
The best usage is against engineers: it cuts straight through wrangler and sapper resistance(in case you don't know, a sapped sentry takes way less damage from attacks). You can give a level 3 a quick sap and then blast it and the engineer won't be able to save it. Or you can spot one of them facing off against soldiers or demos with the wrangler and gun it down from range when they think it's safe, since they can barely repair it with the shield up and it can't shoot if they put the wrangler away.
also the disguise damage bonus puts it over the threshold for 2-shotting light classes at point blank range, which is good against razorback snipers since you can walk up behind them and kill them fast enough that they can barely react(though the ambassador is better at this if you can aim).
I feel like it would be good if Valve made it more useful as a getaway device when a spy's cover is blown while disguised, so here's my rework: >Disguised shots inflict bleeding (with 15 second cooldown between "bloodshots") to scare away enemies. >+20% damage against bleeding enemies. >No random critical hits.
It's funny that people think of this as a counter to Vaccinator but you're still better off just stabbing them so you're kind of wasting the slot IMO.
I'm trash with the revolver so I just use the one that helps me sneak around better
It's shame, you need to stick with this shit revoler, if you want play your eternal reward properly
I started playing YER spy a month ago and yeah, that gun feels borderline necessary. I've probably only fired it less than 10 times ever but the passive is just too good to pass up.
>vaccinator
still love how this weapon lives rent free in snipergays' heads in spite of how fricking useless it is >NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IM NOT ABLE TO INSTAKILL PEOPLE FROM A DISTANCE THEY CAN BARELY REACT TO ME FROM NOW
I love Vacc, I love seeing the enemy rage about "OH I GUESS IM NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY THIS ROUND" and leave the server every other match. tbh the only hard counter to it feels like Pyro; fire damage fricks up your heal rate and the anti-fire Vax Uber doesn't block nearly as much damage as the other two. Also Pyro is maybe the only class with all 4 damage types available to him. You'll see the occasional guy trying to melee you but overwhelmingly it's just not a good idea.
Did you know there's people who still play chess? And I'm talking about people who live in countries with electricity and Internet and everything. Fricking weird, huh?
I just miss when Spy was more playable in general. When I first started playing, I fricking loved the class because you could get away with much more than you can now. People are now perpetually aware of spies, there's more and more anti-Spy weapons, and the ridiculous amount of art style-ruining, what the frick it's all so fricking ugly cosmetics is a stealth nerf to the class.
TF2 is dead, it's time to move on to the superior multiplayer Valve shooter AKA Left 4 Dead 2 >Fully mod supported with a large amount to choose from >Consistent playerbase that isn't filled with bots >No israelite cosmetics, if you want to change the appearance of someone you download a mod, no transactions required >A well programmed game director ensures that almost every game you play is different than the last, promoting replayability >even if you get bored of playing the same campaign maps all the time, there are plenty of great custom maps to choose from >has one of the most advanced gore systems in a vidya >Versus still makes homosexuals and shitters seethe to this day
The data you're using as reference is completely moronic. It assumes that the revolver has perfect accuracy when spamming and only assumes that you always only go for headshots or always only go for bodyshots with the Ambassador.
It should go without saying that you can mix the two to hit breakpoints past facehugging range faster than with the stock revolver. On top of that Spy is a stealthy pick class who benefits from his first shot when he is undetected doing a lot of damage more than direct combat classes.
Think for yourself instead of parroting some youtuber who can't even get his data right.
it shows the best case scenario, for your brain to work out that the vast majority of scenarios are actually way worse, if your brain worked. >Spy is a stealthy pick class who benefits from his first shot when he is undetected doing a lot of damage more than direct combat classes.
Go on, then, what spy gun kills enemies before entering >direct combat
with those >direct combat classes.
? >Think for yourself instead of parroting some youtuber who can't even get his data right. >Oh NO! MATHS!! But wait! I-I recognize that name. is it!? i-is it!? A tuber! haHA! No maths for me, today, Chud!!
>it shows the best case scenario
It shows the best case scenario for the Revolver compared to not the best case scenario for the Ambassador.
It's a biased comparison from the start and one that isn't reflective of any real TF2 fight. >Go on, then, what spy gun kills enemies before entering direct combat with those direct combat classes
Any Spy gun can do that. The Ambassador can do it against enemies with higher health thanks to its higher per-shot damage.
Since you are in complete theoretical data brainrot mode I probably have to tell you that enemies in a real game often aren't at exactly 100% health, and Spy can see how much health enemies have left. >Oh NO! MATHS!! But wait! I-I recognize that name. is it!? i-is it!? A tuber! haHA! No maths for me, today, Chud!!
If you were to do the math comparing the Revolver in a best case scenario against the Ambassador in a best case scenario, not in a nonsense test where you're only allowed to get headshots or bodyshots, you'd find the Ambassador would reach the breakpoints listed from immediate range to long range faster than the Revolver.
That is if you were to actually do the math instead of parroting some e-celeb's data.
>It shows the best case scenario for the Revolver compared to not the best case scenario for the Ambassador.
learn 2 read >The Ambassador can do it against enemies with higher health thanks to its higher per-shot damage.
nope. maybe you're playing against exceptionally laggy players. No problem with the Diamondback, btw?
people are at 100% health quite often. especially behind enemy lines. or do you want the all the spies far away back on their own side, and they just shouldn't be able to do any damage? >If you were to do the math comparing the Revolver in a best case scenario against the Ambassador in a best case scenario, not in a nonsense test where you're only allowed to get headshots or bodyshots,
the numbers are right there. "Amby (B)". put the numbers of a head-shots and non-head-shots at a number of seconds, add them together and see if it's higher or lower than stock at double the seconds. Basic addition. >you'd find the Ambassador would reach the breakpoints listed from immediate range to long range faster than the Revolver.
oh, well golly. if you say so. >That is if you were to actually do the math instead of parroting some e-celeb's data.
do the maths? I'm not even sure you've played the game at this point.
>time to deal 125 damage with ambassador from first shot: 0.6 seconds >time to deal 125 damage with revolver from first shot: 1 second
You do the math. It's not difficult.
>makes up numbers >do the math
do you mean that, with unlimited skill, at a particular range (not to close, not to far) that you have to either hope that you are or that the enemy isn't looking, and the enemy is between 60-102HP, the Amby has ONE theoretical point in an advantage of 0.4 seconds, so long as no other enemies are around, at any other range?
Because if so, you "found" one situation where it isn't worse than every alternative. But it's not very impressive, as I've told you about it from the start
125 health, immediate range:
Ambassador kills in 0.6 seconds - 102 damage HS + 51 damage BS
Revolver kills in 1 second - 60 damage x3
Ambassador either matches the Revolver or outdoes it in time to kill pretty much every situation until out of headshot range
11 months ago
Anonymous
Besides how specific that "kill" is (not every class is 125 (or 150 for that matter)) and the revolver still does 180 0.6 seconds faster in your example, ignores recovery-time for the HS which, whether the HS is one of the followers or the initial shot, adds that extra delay (another thing the amby-player has to do the other gun spies do not) before it (which doesn't matter as long as the spy decides when the fight starts and the enemy isn't aware (but I thought, we wanted to push him out of the sniper role)) which adds on over and over, unless we just want to use one HS every altercation regardless of the number of enemies. I don't mind mixing it up, but we can't just forget that. And I wouldn't harp on this but random crits are still here (amby excluded), and for stock that's 120, that just happens during the trivial act of keeping it somewhat in your enemies silhouette while holding m1, for free with no timing-penalty.
But ignoring all that, sure. The current amby would serve a purpose over the other guns at knife-range.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It's one of the examples listed in the spreadsheet. Let's fix another
200 health, "close range"
Ambassador kills in 1 second - 102 damage HS x2
Revolver kills in 2 seconds - 47 damage X5
>and the revolver still does 180 0.6 seconds faster in your example
Incorrect.
Ambassador, two headshots, 204 damage in one second
Revolver, three bodyshots, 180 damage in one second
>ignores recovery-time for the HS
I am not ignoring recovery time for headshots at all. There is no recovery time on your first shot, same as for the stock Revolver, and the second shot is a bodyshot.
Revolver coming out on top when it comes to pure time to kill is the exception and not the rule.
No one is saying the Revolver is a bad weapon; stock should always be the most reliable option. But the Ambassador continually being presented as useless is purely wrong.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>It's one of the examples listed in the spreadsheet.
Oh. I guess I just thought of them as landmarks and not "kills". Either way it's not accurate to the numbers I'm seeing. I see the Amby lagging .05 seconds behind.
you say >200 health, "close range" >Ambassador kills in 1 second - 102 damage HS x2 >Revolver kills in 2 seconds - 47 damage X5
yes. that example I see. >Incorrect. >Ambassador, two headshots, 204 damage in one second >Revolver, three bodyshots, 180 damage in one second
So was this immediate range. Because looking at the total damage I see revolver reaching 180 in one, but then as I would expect, I see the amby still stuck at 102, and it doesn't hit 204 until 1.03, and I'm guessing you're not just approximating because, like why would you look at such a specific area of range, time and damage to then approximate, so it seems stock reaches it in a second, where amby's stuck on 102. >There is no recovery time on your first shot
after spawning or reloading, sure. But This is why I said the whole >as the spy decides when the fight starts and the enemy isn't aware (but I thought, we wanted to push him out of the sniper role)
thing. The only other "first" shot is either an enemy (not unlikely of direct combat variety) in your face, that could kill any spy that has his gun out within a second, or for taking potshots from afar, which other pistols are better at.
(...)
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Because looking at the total damage I see revolver reaching 180 in one, but then as I would expect, I see the amby still stuck at 102, and it doesn't hit 204 until 1.03
He got those odd granular numbers by basing them off frames in a recording. The Revolver has a shot interval of 0.5 seconds and the Ambassador takes just under a second to be able to headshot again. They'd kill at the same time essentially, there's no significant time advantage one way or the other if shooting someone with 180 health.
>The only other "first" shot is either an enemy (not unlikely of direct combat variety) in your face, that could kill any spy that has his gun out within a second, or for taking potshots from afar, which other pistols are better at.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Spy usually doesn't live very long when he's spotted and getting shot at by a Soldier and not using his strengths to get the first shot in on an unaware target he's trying to kill, but what does the Ambassador have to do with that
[...]
(...) >Revolver coming out on top when it comes to pure time to kill is the exception and not the rule.
I think you confused me with the term "kill" before, because I just read those numbers as markings, not presuming I met an enemy with that exact HP, because that didn't seem logical as enemies show up with very different HP, and different enemy setups. So I see the amby and the stock weaving past each other for a bit in most of the data, but one is more versatile, much easier to use, consistent in damage output, faster, and does objectively superior damage in certain but very, very common situations.
And if a tool is to be that shit it in general, I think those specific "strengths" it's good for, has to be viable to use and get to where you would. And the game is very good at that with its other weapons and tools. As in, you can make the decision of that play-style when you pick your loadout, while the most I can think of for the ambassador is "I'm so glad I can now kill this unaware razorback sniper right in front of me in 2.14 seconds, instead of 2,3 seconds". And I'd think that should be the case even if it wasn't so much harder to use than any other pistols (again, why the frick do people not complain about the diamondback?)
I use the Ambassador as a better pick tool than the Revolver. If I have specific targets that needs to die, I use the weapon that does it quicker and in fewer shots. I could shoot a razorback Sniper twice, kill the Pyro near him with two headshots from outside of his flamethrower range and still have two shots to go. Or I could hold M1 with the revolver and hope I don't miss too much due to random spread.
If I'm running around a lot plinking random targets with varying amounts of health, I use the Revolver. Or still the Ambassador if I'm good at aiming that day..
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Or I could hold M1 with the revolver and hope I don't miss too much due to random spread.
And still have to reload before getting a killing shot in I should mention, unless you're planning on facehugging a pyro.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>It's one of the examples listed in the spreadsheet.
Oh. I guess I just thought of them as landmarks and not "kills". Either way it's not accurate to the numbers I'm seeing. I see the Amby lagging .05 seconds behind.
you say >200 health, "close range" >Ambassador kills in 1 second - 102 damage HS x2 >Revolver kills in 2 seconds - 47 damage X5
yes. that example I see. >Incorrect. >Ambassador, two headshots, 204 damage in one second >Revolver, three bodyshots, 180 damage in one second
So was this immediate range. Because looking at the total damage I see revolver reaching 180 in one, but then as I would expect, I see the amby still stuck at 102, and it doesn't hit 204 until 1.03, and I'm guessing you're not just approximating because, like why would you look at such a specific area of range, time and damage to then approximate, so it seems stock reaches it in a second, where amby's stuck on 102. >There is no recovery time on your first shot
after spawning or reloading, sure. But This is why I said the whole >as the spy decides when the fight starts and the enemy isn't aware (but I thought, we wanted to push him out of the sniper role)
thing. The only other "first" shot is either an enemy (not unlikely of direct combat variety) in your face, that could kill any spy that has his gun out within a second, or for taking potshots from afar, which other pistols are better at.
(...)
(...) >Revolver coming out on top when it comes to pure time to kill is the exception and not the rule.
I think you confused me with the term "kill" before, because I just read those numbers as markings, not presuming I met an enemy with that exact HP, because that didn't seem logical as enemies show up with very different HP, and different enemy setups. So I see the amby and the stock weaving past each other for a bit in most of the data, but one is more versatile, much easier to use, consistent in damage output, faster, and does objectively superior damage in certain but very, very common situations.
And if a tool is to be that shit it in general, I think those specific "strengths" it's good for, has to be viable to use and get to where you would. And the game is very good at that with its other weapons and tools. As in, you can make the decision of that play-style when you pick your loadout, while the most I can think of for the ambassador is "I'm so glad I can now kill this unaware razorback sniper right in front of me in 2.14 seconds, instead of 2,3 seconds". And I'd think that should be the case even if it wasn't so much harder to use than any other pistols (again, why the frick do people not complain about the diamondback?)
None of those compare to the repeated nerf batting of the phlogistinator. After the fourth time it was pretty much comical because all it was ever good at was making pubbies mad. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO TO SURVIVE IS PUSH S.
stock revolver and the ice knife make for a slightly worse (even with good aim) but much higher-longevity pick class. and you don't even need to use the dead rin(ig)ger.
The best Spy Loadout is >Stock >Spycicle >DR/Stock
Of course, if you're playing against complete fricking morons then you can use the Kunai instead but against somewhat competent enemies you're better off just playing Gunspy. Or playing a different class.
I'm really glad the bots are mostly gone. Getting headshot while fully cloaked was the most frustrating thing ever. Nothing in normal gameplay compares now.
>Diamondback is overpowered
This complaint is so weird when any discussion about the Amby works under the assumption you nail your headshots. In any discussion about balance, the Amby has basically unlimited crits as a basic premise, and yet people seethe about the diamondback because...?
fr
>muh deeps
blasting off 105 instantly with a followup is much better than needing like four shots to kill someone
It's great but I think it could use a buff to damage falloff. That includes restoring the Ambassador headshot damage.
Just play sniper.
Frick off.
It's funnier to headshot people as spy though
im in super secret
>play spy like a fricking moron
>change the entire dynamic of the server and reshape its meta for the next few hours
No other game could do this. Kino video
>Ambassador is seen as a sidegrade next to the old OP Enforcer back in the day and used at close range
>Enforcer gets nerfed while Ambassador stays the same
>Spy gets his survivability boosted in and becomes more annoying to hunt down
>Some spies now use the Ambassador to become a mini Sniper that can pick at you with 102 damage shots and disappear whenever he wants
>This gets nerfed because it's very annoying to deal with
>Ambassador is back to just being a weapon that could compete with the old OP Enforcer
>but Sniper-minigays complain that the weapon is useless now because it's impossible to hit heads at close range, while also arguing that no one used it in the way that got nerfed either but they're still mad they can't use it like that
There was no valid reasons for nerfing the ambassador, and worst of all, that doesn't even matter.
People talk about "in theory" and people talk about subjective aspects of the weapon and class such as what is and isn't a valid subclass, and what should and shouldn't be the spies class identity, and how annoying they personally find the weapon, but none of that is a real or valid reason to nerf a weapon that survived the crucible of balancing, with its 0 balance changes over the 8 years it was in the game pre-nerf, and it never being banned from any competitive format.
Unfortunately none of that matters either, the weapon was nerfed because an engineer main named Sigafoo personally found it frustrating to play against, and was very lucky getting to go to valve and talk to them regarding his opinion on the weapon add to this TF2's development team having slowly dropped in quality over the recent years, with many questionable choices (bison nerf, Claidheamh Mòr nerf, eviction notice nerf, MYM matchmaker, just to name a few)
Valve not getting a good feel for the communities perception of the ambassador before putting out a a public announcement, then cemented that any further observations would be forever tainted by said announcement, Additionally anyone who hadn't played extensively with the weapon has just had any negative experience with the weapon solidified as being unfair, this quickly led to a band wagon effect against the weapon, and anyone not in the in group being treated quite harshly by the worst parts of the community, and this just cemented valves misinformed opinion on the weapon.
TL;DR: You are a sheep.
The fact that the bison change was considered a "bug fix" infuriates me to this day
>his post is entirely about the weapon itself
>your post is entirely about a community member you don't like
He is right and you are wrong for that reason alone.
Wrong about what?
Why ambassador was nerfed?
Because the post just explained that. Real reason moronic balance changes like amby, sandman nerf happened out of nowhere. But keep on coping like a bunch of Gankerirgins "opinions" here ever mattered when it came to tf2 balance changes. It was the comptards, israelitetubers and steam forum crybabies that influenced part time tf2 dev team when ti came to which guns to nerf.
>person/group I don't like wanted it, that means I have to hate it!
>muh community drama!!
Again, you are wrong for that reason alone.
Also, I find it funny that you're telling me to "keep on coping" when you're the one crying about a nerf that's not going to get reverted.
the frick you on about anon?
did i say a forbidden word that triggered your autism?
Like I said, the original post you replied to was entirely about the weapon itself, and you replied with a paragraph whining about some community drama. You have still yet to type even one sentence about the weapon itself and why the nerf is bad or unnecessary, your entire "argument" is based solely on community drama.
yep autism triggered
> I don't give a shit about the weapon and whether the nerf was justified or unjustified
gtfo along with your greentext shitpost
Again, ironic, but okay.
He's a Sataniaposter. Being moronic is their forte.
I should also clarify, I don't give a shit about the weapon and whether the nerf was justified or unjustified. Arguing about it is completely pointless because we all know Valve isn't doing shit with it one way or another, but he was actually talking about the weapon whereas all you were doing is whining about community drama and calling him a sheep for not mindlessly disagreeing with someone you don't like.
>he believes compgays aren't responsible for moronic nerfs
>meet your match happened, an update Valve dedicated to compgays specifically getting input from compgays
>sandman nerf happened out of nowhere
Sandman was a controversial weapon from day one and even when valve made it so you could move when stunned they said they still weren't entirely happy with the weapon. It didn't come out of nowhere and it's really obvious it's a weapon they would just remove from the game if they could.
And you of course solely represent the best views of "the community"
I'll never understand the Eviction Notice nerf.
>how dare heavy have a fun/funny melee with so few drawbacks
i'm shocked to shit that the holiday punch isn't gutted as hard as the sandman
>but you actually have to land a hit on their backs or get a crit!
no excuses, either all or nothing homosexual
>i'm shocked to shit that the holiday punch isn't gutted as hard as the sandman
You're shocked a melee on the slowest class in the game isn't as broken as a long range stun on the fastest class in the game?
>isn't as broken as
again, no excuses. the sandman was nerfed explicitly because "taking control away from the player is not fun". meanwhile the holiday punch gets a free pass.
You don't understand game balance at all.
i do, actually. remove the ability to stun people and all will be balanced
The amby is like sniper. Sure playing against some god tier insta headshot player is annoying but they were/are rare and few between. Most people couldnt hit amby headshots to save their lives then and they still can't now. Nerfing it was just a frick you to the community because valve hates you.
The only people who ever b***hed about the amby were snipers
>>This gets nerfed because it's very annoying to deal with
skill issue
is back to just being a weapon that could compete with the old OP Enforcer
Nice horseshit. Here's the truth https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16itedDnO3LmMQbqDSupf_wlOnFe9mhLwpOscs-kmfME/edit#gid=205894647
Even in if you headshot 100% of the time, it's a strict downgrade against all enemies a set range you have to know and make sure you're at, on top of constatnly head-shotting
>>but Sniper-minigays complain that the weapon is useless now because it's impossible to hit heads at close range, while also arguing that no one used it in the way that got nerfed either but they're still mad they can't use it like that
again, nice horseshit. If you can't tell the difference between noticing a weapon being useless, compared to every alternative all with much lower requirements on the user, including when exclusively head-shotting in every situation except the one where perfect head-shotting instead results in 10.4 extra dps if the enemy hadn't died from being picked 29 and a half times the regular would have done in that time, and your own inability to grasp that if a sniper gets out-sniped by someone from sniper distance without the ability to scope or charge, that the sniper really just needs to get better, are you then for holding every other weapon (except sniper rifles) to a standard consistent with that?
Like the direct hit? Constantly hitting with it would do worse damage than regular splash damage at all but one range (preferably when the enemy is literally touching you to make up for how much easier it is to direct hit someone than head-shot them) where it does 14 extra dps, and if anyone says it's moronic that just proves that they only used it to randomly fire at a corner to catch low-hp that might show up, right?
The data you're using as reference is completely moronic. It assumes that the revolver has perfect accuracy when spamming and only assumes that you always only go for headshots or always only go for bodyshots with the Ambassador.
It should go without saying that you can mix the two to hit breakpoints past facehugging range faster than with the stock revolver. On top of that Spy is a stealthy pick class who benefits from his first shot when he is undetected doing a lot of damage more than direct combat classes.
Think for yourself instead of parroting some youtuber who can't even get his data right.
According to that data, the Ambassador was always worse than the revolver at anything other than sniper range.
Needless to say, this doesn't reflect how it was actually used in game even pre-nerf.
>get two clean headshots on a solly
>100
>99
>that video is 9 years old now
i miss those days. jerma and star were the best
Jerma's actually planning an MVM stream somewhere down the pipeline so who knows? Maybe Ster will begrudgingly join even though he's an OW2cuck still.
just watched this, is this strategy still viable?
yeah, just equip the cloak watch on your sniper
what does that mean
They took away headshot damage? TF2 has fallen.
After all the nerfs and changes, stock spy is easily the best
Kunai is a strict upgrade over the stock knife
Nah it's cpy-cicle
if you're really good at killing enemies who are already aware of you, with it, it's probably the best. I'm not, so I go Big Earner. Anything that makes you faster is also just fun in any game.
The onky scenario where the kunai is worse than stock is when you get hit by a stray projectile that wasn't intended for you while youre uncloaked and haven't backstabbed anyone. In any scenario where enemies are aware of you the kunai is either better because you just stabbed someone, or equal because you're going to die.
Stock, sure. but If my alternatives are
low damage-output class unless you get close and to a specific angle of a higher damage-outputting enemy and a health boost, or
low-damage output class unless you get close and to a specific angle of a higher damage-outputting enemy and a speed boost,
I'll probably always pick the latter
you're lowkey fricked in the beginning or if you fail a backstab though
But that's always the case with spy.
That extra base hp won't do much to protect you from max damage rockets, flames and shotgun shots
it's the same with stock, you just survive for like one more second or so
Diamondback is free crits given how easy to is to come across unattended enemy engie buildings.
Facts. It's OP. I don't use it because it feels unfair.
stock with the DR is the strongest way to play the class i fricking LOVE tf2
I play spy and I use my gun more than my knife and I only use the stock invis watch.
Same. I run full Stock Spy but I mostly shoot.
I prefer using the diamondback solely because of the sound effects
I have around 8k kills on this iirc. It's really fricking good, 3 shots light classes and does 21 damage even at max falloff which is great for picking off homies.
Is there any trick to git gud with the bullet spread or is it just a matter of using the weapon more? Feels like my shots always miss, but I also don't play much spy.
Bullet spread on revolvers is really annoying, but if you delay your shots and don't just spam away the accuracy resets
?t=36
I see, thanks Anon
I played TF2 for years and didn't know the revolver had fricking bullet spread. I thought I was just bad.
>just to clear up a small confusion: the wall being shot at starting at 0:53 is about 16640 units away
>it only looks close because the fov is set to 15, since i wanted it to be zoomed far in to easily show the spread sizes relative to each other
this is the the pinned comment from that video
I don't find the bullet spread to be much of an issue. I usually engage enemies mid-range, provided my crosshair stays on the enemies the vast majority of shots will connect. As for the aim, I don't really have any tips except just playing with it. For some reason I'm really good at aiming the revolver but suck absolute balls at sniper.
To be fair that's a massive range
Just remembered that this video exists. I've been playing basically the same way as shown here for years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUsoXPeX8j0
>unfunny script get
been there, done that
i thought GETs were not a thing on Ganker? or is that just dubs?
it's how you're meant to deal with most enemies as spy. picking off low health or priority targets, attacking with the element of surprise, and occasionally going for backstabs where appropriate.
the revolver is extremely underrated
it's reliable damage to pick someone off when you're out of backstab range, spies just don't use it because backstabs provide too much dopamine
Valve screwed over the Artifact fanbase by cancelling the Artifact 2.0 beta without even allowing users to invite friends like they said they would in January 2021 and does not deserve your financial support for these gross consumer-unfriendly practices.
>20 extra damage while disguised, useful for finishing off injured targets without relying on janky head hitboxes like the amby
>pierces damage resistances, fricking over medics and banners
>slower fire rate is meaningless since you won't want to ever hold the button with the revolver anyways
The enforcer is underrated.
>shit contrarian opinion
you fit in now
welcome to Ganker tf2 threads
The sun on a stick is also underrated for its afterburn resistance.
Hell it's underrated in general.
Remember when this thing was considered broken for doing precisely what the sun on the stick does?
Scout's melees often have a habit of being a complete upgrade on stock and getting called bad for no fricking reason. Only truly bad one is sandman.
The axetinguisher was good because it was a pyro weapon
The sun on a stick is shit because it's literally doing nothing unless there's a pyro on your team and then it limits you to fighting near the pyro at all times if you want to make use of it.
So a weapon you'll use sometimes vs the stock bat you'll never use.
Meanwhile any time you are with a pyro you have the equivalent of an unnerfed axetinguisher on top of having a better speed than pyro.
This is not a difficult concept.
A useless weapon vs another useless weapon. Wjen you could instead be using literally anyother Scout melee weapon which are all actually useful. Or at least using the fish for the memes.
>Scout's melees often have a habit of being a complete upgrade on stock and getting called bad for no fricking reason.
Oh hey.
What part of "any time you are with a pyro" did you not get?
>What part of "any time you are with a pyro" did you not get?
Do you understand that you are not always with a pyro? Whereas a pyro is never without fire damage? Again, this is not a difficult concept, I can only assume you have some sort of severe brain damage.
Even putting that aside in any case, part of the reason axtinguisher was so strong was because of airblast, because a key part of the puff n sting playstyle was to airblast your victim into a wall or corner so that they couldn't escape your axe, and scout can't do that either.
>Do you understand that you are not always with a pyro?
If I didn't understand that I wouldn't have said "any time" would I?
Why are you assuming orbiting a pyro? Having a medic is a advantage, do you assume you're expected to orbit your team's medic at all times?
> Consider that when you're in melee range of someone who's on fire, you could just fricking shoot them with your scattergun for 100+ damage (which can crit) instead of whacking them for 79 damage (which can't)
First solid argument made here since it didn't focus on the weapon being situational.
why would you orbit a pyro that won't always exist so you can melee people instead of just fricking shooting them with your incredibly strong primary
Except the sun on a stick is the ONLY scout melee that's worse than stock 90% of the time. Consider that when you're in melee range of someone who's on fire, you could just fricking shoot them with your scattergun for 100+ damage (which can crit) instead of whacking them for 79 damage (which can't). And that's comparing it to stock bat, the worst melee weapon in the game, and not to the boston basher, which is better as a melee weapon 90% of the time, AND lets you build uber and jump higher, or the atomizer, which is probably better as a melee and gives you massive mobility, or the wrap assassin which gives you free damage at mid to long range and a way to frick up snipers.
Stock bat's swing speed with melee crit chance cannot make it the worst. I'd give that to the shovel or heavy fists because of how bad they are at chasing.
If you are close enough to a target as a Scout you are better off just meatshoting them. His melee weapons work better as support tools because he is already designed around flanking enemies.
I use the bat all the time. It's great for finishing off lighter classes after you get one or two good meatshots off of them. A lot more reliable than switching to the pistol or trying to get another shotgun hit, especially if you're using one of the double-barrels.
Honestly Sun-on-a-stick is one of Scout’s best melees. Not for combat, but for survivability. Since burn damage is not proportional, it affects light classes the most and reducing burn damage is massive for Scout. A stray Scorch Shot or Cow Mangler shot means you can get to a health kit easily or even wait out the burn if you need to. It’s better than the Boston Basher, which is extremely overrated and only pushed by compgays because they can build over with it and do a psuedo triple jump.
Ifit was on wearer and not while deployed it would arguably be better than the boston basher. But again it only has that effect if you're getting hit by pyros which you shouldn't be doing 3v3n if there are enough pyros on the other team to justify it. And that is IF they made it always active. As it is it only reduces afterburn by 1 for about half the duration of the afterburn. You would be better off with the candy cane in any scenario where this would matter except one where you're playing scout and struggling with pyros but there are also tons of demos and soldiers. Unlike the basher which is only bad if your team has no medic (an actually good class unlike the pyro) AND you don't need the mobility (which is also basically only on some specific parts of some maps). More mobility is always going to be better than slightly higher survivability against the second worst class in the game and only when you're playing against them wrong. That's to say nothing of the fact that the basher, atomizer, and assassin are also better offensive weapons too.
>You would be better off with the candy cane in any scenario where this would matter
Candy Cane has the explosive damage vulnerability, unlike soas it's one of scout's few melees with a downside that actually matters.
Now read the next sentence after that.
Enemy team having demos and soldiers is pretty much a given.
Yes but the enmy tema having multiple demos, soldiers, and pyros is less likely. And even less likely is that you'll be struggling with the pyros specifically.
>Remember when this thing was considered broken for doing precisely what the sun on the stick does?
The difference is that pyro has 1000 ways to apply the status effect needed for it to be broken whereas scout has zero.
This is not a difficult concept.
Pyro has to get close to you with his limited ranged options. If he gets within melee distance, you already fricked up. Axtinguisher was balanced.
This wasn't about the unjustified and moronic axetinguisher nerf. This was about how the sun on a stick is a dogshit weapon.
Are you two fricking dense?
Scout cannot apply the status effect his weapon requires to function, whereas pyro can apply it very easily. That is the fricking difference, that is what I am talking about.
And the Neon Annihilator would be busted on scout if he had it, since he can instantly milk people, what's your point?
Hinetly they sould just make the sun on a stick light people on fire.
SoaS should've just been a fire version of the basher
>Scout's melees often have a habit of being a complete upgrade on stock
You bring up scout but not Pyro?
>Axtingisuier is better as a finisher, the main point of melee on Pyro
>Homewrecker is anti spy,which makes it have more value than stock
>Powerjack is the only reason the class was playable before the update
>Back scratcher, if you're in a pub without a medic it's a direct upgrade
>Third degree, literal direct upgrade
Outside of Volcanic and the anti-water one every single one of his melee weapons is an upgrade over stock
I would even argue the memesign is better then stock fireaxe.
All classes stock melees are downgrades to unlocks except for sniper
I like punching people though
Bushwacka is a direct upgrade because you always have a guaranteed 195 damage attack.
Not everyone runs broken-ass jarate
There's literally no reason not to run jarate. Razorback and Darwin's are there for unskilled players. Cozy is useless. SMG and Cleaner's are weak and pointless.
In what fricking world is a random crit guaranteed? You're a nonce.
>SMG and Cleaner's are weak and pointless.
>In what fricking world is a random crit guaranteed?
Sounds like a skill issue.
The distance where the SMG works, you might as well go for the headshot. Crits are random, you might have a good chance at getting one, but why take the risk?
The distance where the SMG works is quite is quite far, actually. Unless you are cheating or just a massive loser, it's better to use the SMG as it is more reliable and dealing even a little damage is better than nothing. Plus, if you're gambling for a headshot, you might as well gamble for a random crit with the SMG.
If you're doing good, getting a random crit is going to be very likely and if you're not doing good, then getting a random crit is still considerably likely with your melee. Going for the melee instantly is better because by the time you would have taken to switch to your Jarate, throw it, switch to your melee and swung while having gotten in melee range and not dying; you could have swung twice with Stock and had two chances at getting random crits. Even if you didn't, a normal hit does 65 damage, meaning any light class would die anyway and 130 is still a lot of damage and people don't always have full health.
Stock is better because you always have a guaranteed 195 damage attack that doesn't rely on you having a jar of piss, hitting someone with that jar of piss and switching to your melee before the person kills you.
Reminder that if you die to Jarate+Bushwacka, it's entirely on you.
fricking nobody uses backup or vaccinator, it's just a shitty gimmick compared to the undisguised damage it used to have
>vaccinator
still love how this weapon lives rent free in snipergays' heads in spite of how fricking useless it is
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IM NOT ABLE TO INSTAKILL PEOPLE FROM A DISTANCE THEY CAN BARELY REACT TO ME FROM NOW
>vaccinator
>useless
far from it. It's just difficult to use with the average braindead TF2 player.
>stock uber but you have 4 charges
>useless
moron
>banned in competitive
>considered op in pubs due to its ability to focus the best players
>gives free damage resistances to the medic who is meant to be the vulnerable target
>reaction speed argument STILL exists when literally both players have to react, not just the person getting shot
>fricking banners
I can't imagine how often a spy is going to be gunning down a battalion's backup soldier with his banner active. Even if you ignore his damage resistance, he still has 220 hp and a far superior primary weapon.
true but you can tag his bannered teammates. That's not a very relevant use of the enforcer's damage resistance piercing, though, since it won't come up much.
It's more useful against the vaccinator, which people run sometimes and which is super annoying, but a lot of the time you can just stab them.
The best usage is against engineers: it cuts straight through wrangler and sapper resistance(in case you don't know, a sapped sentry takes way less damage from attacks). You can give a level 3 a quick sap and then blast it and the engineer won't be able to save it. Or you can spot one of them facing off against soldiers or demos with the wrangler and gun it down from range when they think it's safe, since they can barely repair it with the shield up and it can't shoot if they put the wrangler away.
also the disguise damage bonus puts it over the threshold for 2-shotting light classes at point blank range, which is good against razorback snipers since you can walk up behind them and kill them fast enough that they can barely react(though the ambassador is better at this if you can aim).
I feel like it would be good if Valve made it more useful as a getaway device when a spy's cover is blown while disguised, so here's my rework:
>Disguised shots inflict bleeding (with 15 second cooldown between "bloodshots") to scare away enemies.
>+20% damage against bleeding enemies.
>No random critical hits.
>>No random critical hits.
always this with you lot
do you play on that troony tf2 classic server with custom weapons or something?
tf2c has a weapon mod that replaced its +20 damage while disguised with a mini crit. It made it a safer amby that can two tap light classes.
I use this when playing gunspy not because it's good but because it looks and sounds nice.
It's funny that people think of this as a counter to Vaccinator but you're still better off just stabbing them so you're kind of wasting the slot IMO.
I started playing YER spy a month ago and yeah, that gun feels borderline necessary. I've probably only fired it less than 10 times ever but the passive is just too good to pass up.
I love Vacc, I love seeing the enemy rage about "OH I GUESS IM NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY THIS ROUND" and leave the server every other match. tbh the only hard counter to it feels like Pyro; fire damage fricks up your heal rate and the anti-fire Vax Uber doesn't block nearly as much damage as the other two. Also Pyro is maybe the only class with all 4 damage types available to him. You'll see the occasional guy trying to melee you but overwhelmingly it's just not a good idea.
soldier technically has all 4 damage types available
>explosives (rockets)
>fire (cow mangler afterburn)
>bullets (shotgun)
>melee (melee)
>Also Pyro is maybe the only class with all 4 damage types available to him
Pyro doesn't have explosive damage.
Reflected explosives are available to him
Obv this isn't reliable but it's an option
>slower fire rate is meaningless
This actually has a hidden added benefit that the accuracy reset is lower on the Enforcer(Amby too actually.)
>Disguise twice as quickly
there its less shit and interesting
I haven't fricked with spy in ages but does this still 2 shot scouts and the like?
>can’t randomly crit
Being able to do 120 damage suddenly is more useful than people think
backstabs are very good for building crit chance.
Diamondback for me
>Pyro video
I remember naming mine
>did you forget I have this
back when I played TF2
The revolvers in Cyberpunk are such bullshit one shot machines in stealth builds
I'm trash with the revolver so I just use the one that helps me sneak around better
It's shame, you need to stick with this shit revoler, if you want play your eternal reward properly
I like having extra comfort in cloak movement, and the damage penalty doesn't really matter that much when you're picking off low health targets.
You people actually still play this shit?
>consoom new products
Did you know there's people who still play chess? And I'm talking about people who live in countries with electricity and Internet and everything. Fricking weird, huh?
I just miss when Spy was more playable in general. When I first started playing, I fricking loved the class because you could get away with much more than you can now. People are now perpetually aware of spies, there's more and more anti-Spy weapons, and the ridiculous amount of art style-ruining, what the frick it's all so fricking ugly cosmetics is a stealth nerf to the class.
there's the Diamondback
>dude here's free crits for literally doing things spy normally does.
TF2 is dead, it's time to move on to the superior multiplayer Valve shooter AKA Left 4 Dead 2
>Fully mod supported with a large amount to choose from
>Consistent playerbase that isn't filled with bots
>No israelite cosmetics, if you want to change the appearance of someone you download a mod, no transactions required
>A well programmed game director ensures that almost every game you play is different than the last, promoting replayability
>even if you get bored of playing the same campaign maps all the time, there are plenty of great custom maps to choose from
>has one of the most advanced gore systems in a vidya
>Versus still makes homosexuals and shitters seethe to this day
gun
caca
Theoretically gun spy is the strongest class behind the sniper
it shows the best case scenario, for your brain to work out that the vast majority of scenarios are actually way worse, if your brain worked.
>Spy is a stealthy pick class who benefits from his first shot when he is undetected doing a lot of damage more than direct combat classes.
Go on, then, what spy gun kills enemies before entering
>direct combat
with those
>direct combat classes.
?
>Think for yourself instead of parroting some youtuber who can't even get his data right.
>Oh NO! MATHS!! But wait! I-I recognize that name. is it!? i-is it!? A tuber! haHA! No maths for me, today, Chud!!
>it shows the best case scenario
It shows the best case scenario for the Revolver compared to not the best case scenario for the Ambassador.
It's a biased comparison from the start and one that isn't reflective of any real TF2 fight.
>Go on, then, what spy gun kills enemies before entering direct combat with those direct combat classes
Any Spy gun can do that. The Ambassador can do it against enemies with higher health thanks to its higher per-shot damage.
Since you are in complete theoretical data brainrot mode I probably have to tell you that enemies in a real game often aren't at exactly 100% health, and Spy can see how much health enemies have left.
>Oh NO! MATHS!! But wait! I-I recognize that name. is it!? i-is it!? A tuber! haHA! No maths for me, today, Chud!!
If you were to do the math comparing the Revolver in a best case scenario against the Ambassador in a best case scenario, not in a nonsense test where you're only allowed to get headshots or bodyshots, you'd find the Ambassador would reach the breakpoints listed from immediate range to long range faster than the Revolver.
That is if you were to actually do the math instead of parroting some e-celeb's data.
>It shows the best case scenario for the Revolver compared to not the best case scenario for the Ambassador.
learn 2 read
>The Ambassador can do it against enemies with higher health thanks to its higher per-shot damage.
nope. maybe you're playing against exceptionally laggy players. No problem with the Diamondback, btw?
people are at 100% health quite often. especially behind enemy lines. or do you want the all the spies far away back on their own side, and they just shouldn't be able to do any damage?
>If you were to do the math comparing the Revolver in a best case scenario against the Ambassador in a best case scenario, not in a nonsense test where you're only allowed to get headshots or bodyshots,
the numbers are right there. "Amby (B)". put the numbers of a head-shots and non-head-shots at a number of seconds, add them together and see if it's higher or lower than stock at double the seconds. Basic addition.
>you'd find the Ambassador would reach the breakpoints listed from immediate range to long range faster than the Revolver.
oh, well golly. if you say so.
>That is if you were to actually do the math instead of parroting some e-celeb's data.
do the maths? I'm not even sure you've played the game at this point.
have you played the game?
>time to deal 125 damage with ambassador from first shot: 0.6 seconds
>time to deal 125 damage with revolver from first shot: 1 second
You do the math. It's not difficult.
>makes up numbers
>do the math
do you mean that, with unlimited skill, at a particular range (not to close, not to far) that you have to either hope that you are or that the enemy isn't looking, and the enemy is between 60-102HP, the Amby has ONE theoretical point in an advantage of 0.4 seconds, so long as no other enemies are around, at any other range?
Because if so, you "found" one situation where it isn't worse than every alternative. But it's not very impressive, as I've told you about it from the start
125 health, immediate range:
Ambassador kills in 0.6 seconds - 102 damage HS + 51 damage BS
Revolver kills in 1 second - 60 damage x3
Ambassador either matches the Revolver or outdoes it in time to kill pretty much every situation until out of headshot range
Besides how specific that "kill" is (not every class is 125 (or 150 for that matter)) and the revolver still does 180 0.6 seconds faster in your example, ignores recovery-time for the HS which, whether the HS is one of the followers or the initial shot, adds that extra delay (another thing the amby-player has to do the other gun spies do not) before it (which doesn't matter as long as the spy decides when the fight starts and the enemy isn't aware (but I thought, we wanted to push him out of the sniper role)) which adds on over and over, unless we just want to use one HS every altercation regardless of the number of enemies. I don't mind mixing it up, but we can't just forget that. And I wouldn't harp on this but random crits are still here (amby excluded), and for stock that's 120, that just happens during the trivial act of keeping it somewhat in your enemies silhouette while holding m1, for free with no timing-penalty.
But ignoring all that, sure. The current amby would serve a purpose over the other guns at knife-range.
It's one of the examples listed in the spreadsheet. Let's fix another
200 health, "close range"
Ambassador kills in 1 second - 102 damage HS x2
Revolver kills in 2 seconds - 47 damage X5
>and the revolver still does 180 0.6 seconds faster in your example
Incorrect.
Ambassador, two headshots, 204 damage in one second
Revolver, three bodyshots, 180 damage in one second
>ignores recovery-time for the HS
I am not ignoring recovery time for headshots at all. There is no recovery time on your first shot, same as for the stock Revolver, and the second shot is a bodyshot.
Revolver coming out on top when it comes to pure time to kill is the exception and not the rule.
No one is saying the Revolver is a bad weapon; stock should always be the most reliable option. But the Ambassador continually being presented as useless is purely wrong.
>It's one of the examples listed in the spreadsheet.
Oh. I guess I just thought of them as landmarks and not "kills". Either way it's not accurate to the numbers I'm seeing. I see the Amby lagging .05 seconds behind.
you say
>200 health, "close range"
>Ambassador kills in 1 second - 102 damage HS x2
>Revolver kills in 2 seconds - 47 damage X5
yes. that example I see.
>Incorrect.
>Ambassador, two headshots, 204 damage in one second
>Revolver, three bodyshots, 180 damage in one second
So was this immediate range. Because looking at the total damage I see revolver reaching 180 in one, but then as I would expect, I see the amby still stuck at 102, and it doesn't hit 204 until 1.03, and I'm guessing you're not just approximating because, like why would you look at such a specific area of range, time and damage to then approximate, so it seems stock reaches it in a second, where amby's stuck on 102.
>There is no recovery time on your first shot
after spawning or reloading, sure. But This is why I said the whole
>as the spy decides when the fight starts and the enemy isn't aware (but I thought, we wanted to push him out of the sniper role)
thing. The only other "first" shot is either an enemy (not unlikely of direct combat variety) in your face, that could kill any spy that has his gun out within a second, or for taking potshots from afar, which other pistols are better at.
(...)
>Because looking at the total damage I see revolver reaching 180 in one, but then as I would expect, I see the amby still stuck at 102, and it doesn't hit 204 until 1.03
He got those odd granular numbers by basing them off frames in a recording. The Revolver has a shot interval of 0.5 seconds and the Ambassador takes just under a second to be able to headshot again. They'd kill at the same time essentially, there's no significant time advantage one way or the other if shooting someone with 180 health.
>The only other "first" shot is either an enemy (not unlikely of direct combat variety) in your face, that could kill any spy that has his gun out within a second, or for taking potshots from afar, which other pistols are better at.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Spy usually doesn't live very long when he's spotted and getting shot at by a Soldier and not using his strengths to get the first shot in on an unaware target he's trying to kill, but what does the Ambassador have to do with that
I use the Ambassador as a better pick tool than the Revolver. If I have specific targets that needs to die, I use the weapon that does it quicker and in fewer shots. I could shoot a razorback Sniper twice, kill the Pyro near him with two headshots from outside of his flamethrower range and still have two shots to go. Or I could hold M1 with the revolver and hope I don't miss too much due to random spread.
If I'm running around a lot plinking random targets with varying amounts of health, I use the Revolver. Or still the Ambassador if I'm good at aiming that day..
>Or I could hold M1 with the revolver and hope I don't miss too much due to random spread.
And still have to reload before getting a killing shot in I should mention, unless you're planning on facehugging a pyro.
(...)
>Revolver coming out on top when it comes to pure time to kill is the exception and not the rule.
I think you confused me with the term "kill" before, because I just read those numbers as markings, not presuming I met an enemy with that exact HP, because that didn't seem logical as enemies show up with very different HP, and different enemy setups. So I see the amby and the stock weaving past each other for a bit in most of the data, but one is more versatile, much easier to use, consistent in damage output, faster, and does objectively superior damage in certain but very, very common situations.
And if a tool is to be that shit it in general, I think those specific "strengths" it's good for, has to be viable to use and get to where you would. And the game is very good at that with its other weapons and tools. As in, you can make the decision of that play-style when you pick your loadout, while the most I can think of for the ambassador is "I'm so glad I can now kill this unaware razorback sniper right in front of me in 2.14 seconds, instead of 2,3 seconds". And I'd think that should be the case even if it wasn't so much harder to use than any other pistols (again, why the frick do people not complain about the diamondback?)
they need to make an australium variant for this gun
>Diamondback
>Kunai
>Cloak and Dagger
>Disguise as Scout
Oh yeah, it's killstreak time.
rip amby
rip caber
rip sticky jumper
rip sandman
rip cleaver
rip axtinguisher
rip degreaser
rip bfb
None of those compare to the repeated nerf batting of the phlogistinator. After the fourth time it was pretty much comical because all it was ever good at was making pubbies mad. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO TO SURVIVE IS PUSH S.
I hate compgays with a passion
stock revolver and the ice knife make for a slightly worse (even with good aim) but much higher-longevity pick class. and you don't even need to use the dead rin(ig)ger.
>Diamondback
>Spy-cicle
>Stock watch
Literally a direct upgrade over the stock loadout
Updoot tomorrow?
No, it's in Summer.
It is summer
In one week, yes.
I kinda want the update to come out Tomorrow just to rub it in your face.
put dispenser here
Make The Sandman mark people for death
I have now fixed it
>Sandman given Fan o' War attribute
absolute madman
may an inflated bbw latina brap you to sleep.
The best Spy Loadout is
>Stock
>Spycicle
>DR/Stock
Of course, if you're playing against complete fricking morons then you can use the Kunai instead but against somewhat competent enemies you're better off just playing Gunspy. Or playing a different class.
I wish my aim was better so I could succeed at gunspy.
Pls gib good servers to play on pls
I'm really glad the bots are mostly gone. Getting headshot while fully cloaked was the most frustrating thing ever. Nothing in normal gameplay compares now.
>the bots are mostly gone.
are they? did they patch something?
I think they just gave up
what were they trying to accomplish?
Making (You) mad, mostly.
man may never know the answer
they're autistic sociopaths who get off on... mildly annoying people I guess
I haven't had any problems while playing spy recently.
Gentlemen.
>Bunch of dudes hangin around taunting
Soul.
post the webm
I still run primarily stock loadouts on all my classes.
Exception being pyro (backburner/detonator/powerjack)
If I roll 6 Summer Update tomorrow.
>Diamondback is overpowered
This complaint is so weird when any discussion about the Amby works under the assumption you nail your headshots. In any discussion about balance, the Amby has basically unlimited crits as a basic premise, and yet people seethe about the diamondback because...?
amby takes skill to get free crits, but people still complained about it until it got nerfed into being the worst revolver
>amby takes skill to get free crits
>with those janky ass hitboxes
lol
homosexuals will complain about this, but all it does is let you do what the soldier already does, but way worse.
I prefer Detonator so I can be a full-time diet soldier.