If I win, I'm miles better than you, especially if you used a scrub character like Ken. I had to work ten times harder than you. And if I lose, I'm still better than you, because again I'm working so much harder. In fact, winning a single round proves I'm better than you. I'm always sure to remind my opponents these simple facts via messaging. Just in case they let their pride get the better of them and they actually think they're good.
Mad because you all know it's true?
zangief being hard is overrated, and I've got a mini essay for why this is the case. I REALLY hate to use this word because it can tend to be kinda arbitrary but id call zangiefs overarching design "artificial difficulty".
But I've watched too many snake eyez streams that whether I like it or not, I'm tainted by his complaining and can't help but admit that zangief is the worsy in the game even though something about that judgement feels wrong...
He's bad because he doesn't have tools that others have. Basic tools.
my character slightly unorthodox...? he's freak D tier man...
You wrote all this yet I am better than you because I don't touch 3D Street Fighter slop.
This poster has a huge cock.
I should know, we can sense our own.
sorry moron, but spot tekken
Tekken is slowly becoming gay and mainstream.
Zangief always based. Generic "do all well-rounded" shotos are the ones less-skilled.
Gief players are only skilled if they use classic controls.
If you use modern controls as Zangief, you are a gay.
I don't use modern. Modern shouldn't even be in the game.
>he can't beat modern giefs
are you bad or something
the game isn't designed for non-motion inputs, the current drawbacks for modern mode is simply not enough. you cannot refute this
Preach giefbro, you speak truth
gief vs deejay is a 6-4 matchup
Is that the character with 50/50 mixups? Shit opinion
>Is that the character with 50/50 mixups?
Are you a fucking retard? What character are you talking about? Every single character made? You fucking moron. I want to kill you. I want to flay the skin from your thighs. Fuck you.
>
I wish I had a tall judoka gf who would openly invite me to come and get thrown
zangief might be shit, but he's certainly not honest, that's all I'll say.
I don't care, I am literally Ken.
Just like I am literally Sol. That's just the kind of characters I play.
It's not about tiers, about being good or bad, it's about being literally me. You beat me with scrub character? Well you are no life loser sperg.
I beat you? Why are you so weak and stupid?
Simple as.
Youre bad at the game. Simple as. Lol
Seethe.
I am Ken.
based Ken
Bros, is that achievable natty without juice and 50 years of training on a clifftop?
I fucking hate you Ken. Actually I’ve fought so many Kens at this point I’m pretty good at the match up. But still I seethe and reeeee. REEEEEEE
Good job, OP.
This is a great definition of "the one trick cope". You really nailed the feel of it.
I play pot in xrd for 2 years. You're not working harder. You're not better. You win the rps 1/3 times and that can snowball into a win sometimes. Pick a fucking top tier.
>pot in xrd for 2 years
scrub mentality L
Almost diamond though. Get fucked
>almost
Ooh watch out guys we've got the next EVO champ here. Hear that? He's *almost* Diamond. Watch out for this badass here.
> I'm working so much harder.
Personally, I love Z because I have to work so much less. Any other character I have to do all kinds of combos and be on point the whole time. With Z, I catch you just a few times and its over. I’ve hd a much easier time climbing the ranks as Z than with anyone else. Maybe its because I can do standing spds, idk. But he’s my least sweaty character. Super fun to play.
THIS. is what I want to talk about. This will spur an essay on why Zangief isn't actually skilled, just arbitrarily difficult.
Okay. Start: There are actually a multitude of different grapplers, Zangief exists closer to the Hugo, Haggar, Birdie, T.Hawk type, moreso than the "Makoto" or "Laura" who need to combo and hitconfirm into their grabs and space better because they have the ability to space in the first place.
Why am I saying this? Because I want to make a point. The former grapplers are more random and less skilled than the latter grapplers imo, and yes less random and more skilled are directly correlated in my mind.
Basically, the more random a grappler, the easier they are in my opinion, and the less stuff like "spacing" and getting hitconfirms matter.
Zangief is a very interesting character in SF6. Look at this:
He has a 360 basic special move...while also having a 2 button anti air?
He has a double 360 super art? While also having it be unblockable?
If you're paying attention, you'll start to get my point. The character is a contradiction of ease and convenience, as well as tedium and superfluity.
Stuff like this makes me feel like his difficulty is "artificial" even just looking at the character and how he plays straight up, he's a very head on, brute force "I'm coming for you" straightforward type of character, his image, fighting style and everything doesn't match with how retardedly involved his inputs are. It just doesn't feel right, ontop of the contradictions of ease vs convolution and his difficulty becomes hard to judge.
To me, Giefs difficulty is fake, he might be LITERALLY or TECHNICALLY difficult, but his gameplan and fighting style are incredibly brute force in your face, "I hit my buttons or don't".
I think as a character he's fundamentally shittily designed for these reasons, as well as just being boring, but thats more of a subjective judgement.
I have a bit more to say, like how this affects Manon, but word limit.
He loses to spam and rushdown
please patiently use your head, and realize we're talking about difficulty not strength. and your argument is retarded because every character "loses" to something, and your example isn't even absolute
Yes but since I Zangief and you jerk off punks for 15 bucks a man under the queensboro bridge I'd say we're in different categories
...what???
help me out here guys, is it just me or does this guy make no sense and didn't even address what I said? lmao gief mains are so weird man...
Makoto is full on random, she grabs you once with full bar and wins no matter what the fuck has happened before.
Gief doesn't even have real oki on the grabs this game outside of corner.
>Gief doesn't even have real oki on the grabs this game outside of corner.
the fuck? Manon gets zero oki on grabs and people still call her a random 50/50 character despite having to actually space and hitconfirm, especially since unlike gief who can grab you a mile a way, her command grab has a mini dash before she grabs that can be interrupted with light normals
don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying Manon is worse than gief (you don't understand how badly I want to) my point is that Manon is considered a "random" character despite not having oki. Oki has nothing to do with it. It's about how much damage your command grab does, how many grabs you have for any particular situation (which makes your gameplay seem even more frontloaded on "randomness") and how hard your grabs are to counter. I almost NEVER, see gief grabs get countered (interrupted) almost always just whiffs, not to mention dude gets armour.
Gief is just random. He's like the ultimate grappler, and characters like Laura and Makoto (okay, we might have to debate about this a bit more, it's been a while since I've played the games with makoto) are infinitely better designed SOLELY because they're NOT just grapplers and have actually unique elements as well.
Laura especially is probably the best designed grappler from Capcom ever: Shit neutral, so she has to work for hit confirms, grabs do virtually no damage except in combo enders, has to pull off mixups, use a slow projectile effectively AS a grappler, and to top it all off. Has an actually distinct and real fighting style (bjj) that doesn't just feel like "LEMME GRAB YOU AHHAHAHA!!!" most skilled and well designed grappler, don't care about what the scrubs will cry about regarding her.
Remember, we're not exactly talking about balance here. A grappler can technically do big damage off a grab and be "balanced" but that screeches random and dishonest to me. Infact, I think gief is shit in 6.
It's entirely about Oki, tho.
It would be one thing if Gief would loop you over and over again with command grabs into 50/50 guesses after every grab. But not in this game. First he has to crawl toward you then to put you with his big pokes and then put you in a position where you're standing still, and then land a command grab which puts him nearly fullscreen again.
The guy has to win neutral every single time he lands a throw
responses like this on Ganker are a bit frustrating and troubling to deal with for me, because there are just a couple things in the response that are off enough to make it so that even tho it LOOKS like we're having a conversation, nobody is actually "responding" to one another, and instead it's just throwing meaningless subjective opinions at one another without context or relevance. The reason why this is troubling for me is because this is what will happen:
-I'll see the response.
-I'll get justifiably frustrated at the fact that it either feels like my point isn't being actually understood, challenged and disproven, and instead it feels like we're dancing around the point in this superfluous way.
-I'll point out everything I've said and why I'm frustrated and why the response I got is bad.
-Then I'll get another response. It can go two ways:
either repeat the same mistake because they aren't open minded enough to recieve the "criticism" understand it, and either shut it down, or reciprocate it
or
get mad that I'm getting mad, and tell me I'm wrong for caring too much.
I am being open and honest with this, in hopes that you don't misunderstand what I'm about to do.
To be Continued...
>It's entirely about Oki, tho.
okay but you didn't address anything I said that suggests it's not, so I don't know how you think you can make this claim unless you're just biased.
>It would be one thing if Gief would loop you over and over again with command grabs into 50/50 guesses after every grab.
no grappler actually does this, so I don't know why you're proposing this alternate reality as if I have to answer to it. I don't care, that's not what I'm talking about. It's weird to have to deal with when you just say. "It would be true if it was this thing I THINK, not this thing you think" because it completely ignores and doesn't engage with what I meant or was talking, about, and forces me to engage with and dismiss a misunderstanding that makes my argument look "bad" by suggesting that it's another way, even though you didn't argue against the initial way I proposed.
I hope you understand that. lol. Now moving on.
>First he has to crawl toward you then to put you with his big pokes and then put you in a position where you're standing still, and then land a command grab which puts him nearly fullscreen again.
? so do everything every other character has to do...except he has a dozen random command grabs the player has to deal with? like do you guys even read? even have enough self awareness? I LITERALLY said his gameplan is just straightforward "I'm coming at you!" till he grabs you. The fuck is the petty complaint about walk speed that so many scrubs hold onto now? He's not supposed to be a shimmy, whiff punish character on the first place. He has long as fuck big buttons that he hits you with, until you're cornered or have no where to go. If you literally watch the CPT tournament, the entire time to commentators, and even snake eyes himself noted how he literally just blocked the hits and approached JP incrementally each time. And it worked.
He's not hard. I don't even disagree that he's shit. It just doesn't make him any less random.
Another bro mind broken by the simple strike/throw grappler lmao just don't get grabbed bitch
>doesn't counter a single argument
>makes a retarded assumption about losing to giefs
why is it so hard for Ganker to engage in discussion? and why are they so without nuance? it's like in their smooth brains, it's impossible for somebody to dislike fighting a character and their fundamental design principle even if they win against them often, or don't have a problem with them?
it almost comes across as cope, like they think that if they selectively highlight a made up impression of reality they have, and assign it to whoever says something true that may paint what they like (gief) in a negative light, that they can ignore the obvious reality that would prove their impression wrong.
it's kinda pathetic but...in a room full of pathetic people, I guess "pathetic" is just normal and an "identity"
This. Ken players are butthurt due to not being able to spam their safe on block moves over and over. When confronted by a real player they seethe.
>Ken players
>despite me literally being a Manon player.
here, this is all the proof I and anyone needs. the only way these delusional retards can cope with any pushback against their narrative is by framing everyone as playing the top tier characters so that they can conveniently dismiss them and disengage from reality, never actually having to confront anything real. honestly, this should be a /thread moment just on its own, to show how disingenuous and delusionally biased gief mains are
Scrubquotes here you come
what's actually wrong about it tho?
I just play Manon and have fun.
>Win rock paper scissors twice and steal a whole round
>Skill
Gief players are just addicted gamblers that ran out of money, so they hop in ranked for their fix instead.
Well stop picking rock, idiot
>work ten times as hard
I'm sure waiting for the other guy to make a mistake just to grab him 2-3 times is very hard for you.
I am surprised terms like "low effort, high reward" is not used more often in fighting games because there are always characters that require the bare minimum efforts to do well.
did they buff Zangief yet
He just won tournies :^)
Why do dick riders bring up pros as the standard for how balanced a character is? Did anybody win tournaments with Ken, Luke, etc? Shut the fuck up.
>Did anybody win tournaments with Ken, Luke, etc?
yes?
So Zangeif is on the same level as Luke and Ken? That's basically what you're saying. Retarded, flawed logic.
Pretty much. Its a player issue if someone good can get tourney results while you can't even get out of gold.
Snake eyes is one guy. One. And he isn't even somebody that just picked up the game. He's been playing Zangeif forever and is used to his style and inputs. Retard.
Maybe you should try putting in as much effort as he does?
You're argument is that every character is playing the same game, and that tiers mean nothing. This is fanboy cope.
And it's complainer cope that they can't win against other characters.
>b-b-but I have to work 4 TIMES AS HARD FOR THE WIN!!
ok? then put in the work or shut up.
You didn't read my entire post. You have a short attention span. If you read my entire post, you'd know I'm almost diamond with him. But I can't help you're a moron that can't read. I already put in the work. Which means I can hit master with every other character. You got carried to whatever rank you are.
Ok. Hit master and stop complaining. Someone won a tourney with him. You’re the problem.
One guy won a tournament with Zangeif. Many people won with Ken. Kys for bringing up tournaments pussy.
He can block sword strikes with his pecs, how much buffer does he need to be?
Honeymoon phase is fucking over. SF6 is dogshit. Even the fucking general on /vg/ which was the last safe space for it has revolted. Slime rush is shit, party impact is shit, modern controls are shit (seethe all you want coping midwits 1 button dps and supers ruins the fun of the game at all levels). Just remove the slime bar, remove modern, and nerf JP into the ground otherwise nobody is playing this trash by the time Kekken 8 is out. t. master rank (not an achievement anyone with at least 45% winrate can get in) but gays will say I'm lying so pic related.
This. Fanboys will cope.
Hey, the only reason I main Ken is because he was my favorite to play in Smash. Little did I know that he would be the one all the noobs flock to, but fuck it. I liked Ken in Smash, and I like him in SF6, fuck tierlist nonsense.
So you're a Dan refugee who wants to ridicule people you beat but also use the fact that you chose a 'bad character' as an excuse for why you lost?
https://twitter.com/RobTeeVee/status/1696163386826879115 Here's snake eyez calling you a shitter by the way
this entire video is literally filled with "maybe's" and "I don't know's" he's literally just thinking outloud and speculating, he's not making any definitve claims. Not to mention how much it runs counter to everything he says on stream
God bless you, Gief.
>buy SF6 3 months after release
>struggling to get through low ranks
>only like 1 or 2 characters out of this entire shit launch roster
>need to invest hundreds of hours in training mode just so I don't get bodied
fighting games are such a bitch to get into, insane time investment and the playerbase fucking tanks 1 month after release
This thread's full of a lot of pseuds that've never placed at a major. You think maybe if you idiots debate hard enough you'll crawl out of Diamond eventually?
Pros have already acknowledged he's the worst character in the game. But nice try. Ken player.
That's not what I'm referring to, but keep jumping to those conclusions, champ. You certainly aren't making it out of pools with shit reads like that lol
Im almost diamond with Zangeif. I started with a 20% win rate to 50% now. And unlike you cheating morons I didn't make a fake account to hide my losses. I'm better at the game than you. Keep fanboying for your corporation, Ken scrub.
I have to anon. I'm not naturally good at fighting games and all anyone ever looks at is your stats.
Many responses still prove Capcom semen slurpers are hypocritical and they wonder why scrub games like MK retain and pull in more players. They're rabid and foaming at the mouth when talking about Zangeif. They refuse to let him be balanced like the rest of the cast. But somebody like JP is perfectly fine.
do I just hear whining and no actual argument? I think I do. stay mad, and piss, you're not actually good at the game for playing zangief lmao, imagine thinking this unironically
Nobody refuted me once in this entire thread.
there have been plenty of arguments lmao, and you never made one that could be verified or falsified in the first place.
you're just saying nobody actually refuted, rather than actually putting for any argument and back and forth where you could show that nobody provided a refutation.
it's all superfical
Name an argument
What now, grappler main?
*spins like a retard so fast I turn red*
nothing personel
This is why black people have such big ego. They’re basically playing zangief in real life.
I just find gief unfun to play. His design is starting to get really old, the whole idea of "big slow character with big burst damage" seems to struggle more and more in newer games. Like, the games are becoming more and more mechanically loaded and characters are given more and more tools but zangief,... yeah zangief feels like a character straight from 1991 with how stupidly SPD centric he is and how poor his overall toolset is. And giving him meme shit like tundra storm doesn't help him.
They had him work pretty good in 4 then just decided he needed to be absolute dogshit
Give 4 Zangief the air SPD and vortex cyclone he'd be incredibly solid
tl;dr he's gay
How do you go over the fear of playing online? It stresses me out too much.
Embrace it. Everyone's just trying to have fun so don't be overcompetitive
Why are pro players feat used as an argument for the general player base?
Shitters bring up pros to justify bad game design and broken characters. In Zangeif's case, they btfo themselves. There's literally only one guy that's known to always main Zangeif and he used him in every SF. He's respected because Zangeif is shit in every game. Ironically every pro already admits he's the worst character in the game. Anti Zangeif posts are done by those that dislike playing against. In other words. They make effeminate arguments like women and speak on emotion.
Here's the blue pill. If you win with low tier. You only won because your opponent played like shit. They made more unforced errors letting you be able to get in and use your stupid command grab. Genuinely good FG players like SnakeEyez earn their wins. 99% of Gief players are just edging the entire time until someone gives them permission to cum.
>Nash had black hair and a beard
how the fuck did he randomly go blonde? and don't say something stupid like "he dyed his hair"
>We designed him wrong, as a joke
>React to cammy's instant divekick with lariat
>Lose
I still don't understand why they did him so dirty with that.
Zangief is easy mode until Master. Then I can give you that you need to work harder. Until then even Ken players work harder than you
SF6's fine, slime should be nerfed to 2 bars though.
should I revive this thread to deconstruct an anon's argument?
Even if OP is baiting, there genuinely are retard Zangief players that genuinely believe shit like this, which is depressing
Yeah the character is pretty bad but retards love to flex on scrubs and claim they're low tier warriors but accuse every character of being top tier when they lose.
I mean, look at this lmao:
gief mains genuinely have zero understanding of nuance that they're calling anybody who criticizes giefs design on a fundamental level or call him "easy" emotional.
it's like it rights itself, zero self awareness at all. they don't even realize how many arguments can be cheaply "won" by saying that
"oh, you want neutral and hate air dashing, extended combos and overblown damage? lmao imagine making such an effeminate argument! anime fighters have existed for years and are just as balanced as every fighter!"
"yeah, but it's not about balance, it's just cheap and braindead that some retard can combo me for ages off of one hitconfirm"
"lol, emotional woman argument"
Ganker unironically cannot engage with anything without some sort of adhoming and name calling thrown to dismiss any opposing argument. unironic reddit behaviour