BGs killed world pvp 1000% more than flying mounts
dailies were literally just an easy source of gold/rep farming, nothing more
yeah belves will always be a flaw
It's fun having 5 man content be difficult enough that you need to use CC and basic intelligence (Cata had that at launch too and people hated it after WotLk faceroll), but there were a few heroics where the tuning was clearly too high. Shattered Halls is the stand-out example, we would only run it for the attunement quest and had one tank who ran it for people because he was geared enough to make it tolerable.
>17 years later >only private (fun)server caters to the exclusive always online discord circlejerking hardcore day-one raiders with overtuned values and custom heroic raid modes
Turtle is the first popular server to do it, but there've been a lot over the years focused on roleplaying and adding in custom towns. I hope the pserver scene becomes more focused on custom content that isn't endgame raiding over the next few years. Let classic be for the minmax obsessed manchildren, I want an mmo that is actually a fun online experience.
world pvp completely died. The only fun aspect of WoW was ambushing the scum on the other faction. Raids are boring, BGs are boring, the only worthwhile thing was hunting down and griefing the literal cancer of Earth (the average WoW player).
Most of the old zones in the game became essentially non-existent because TBC pulled the whole game into a new world. It wasn't the size of Outland that was the problem, it's that it didn't expand on Vanilla zones that needed more content - and that became the standard practice for every expansion because of it.
Expansions should have added large changes to specific parts of zones, filling up empty or mostly empty space with new endgame content and instance portals. That takes some extra work making sure all the original quests in the zone still function properly, but they can update any quests effected. Hell, while they're there why not give other parts of that zone make overs and updates too, add in new low level quests referencing the new content, maybe add in entire new towns (or even camps) with vendors, repairing, maybe a flight path. Opening the gates of Uldum in Tanaris could have been an entire expansion in itself, turn Gadgetzan into the city it was originally going to be, make a boat that goes to some zone over in the Eastern Kingdoms like Arathi because it's important for new lore reasons, and revamp some stuff in there and Silverpine.
By making every expansion run away to its own map, they've wasted a lot of good space in the world, when the point of an MMO should be to go all over an extremely detailed, interesting, living world.
I mean, even if Blizzard did this, added new zones onto EK and Kalimdor.......you'd have the same exact issue. All the high level players would be in these new zones would the rest of the existing vanilla zones would be dead.
>you'd have the same exact issue. All the high level players would be in these new zones would the rest of the existing vanilla zones would be dead.
Except all those zones are on the same continent in the same instance you fricking moron
>t's that it didn't expand on Vanilla zones that needed more content
Except that is literally not true, there were many quests added into Vanilla zones during the pre-patch for TBC, one of the most prominent being several new questlines in Theramore / Dustwallow.
And that was a great thing! They should have done more of it! Then make level 70s go back there or somewhere else in Kalimdor! Expansions should have had revitalizing existing areas of the world as a core philosophy.
Heroic Dungeons
Attunements
Flying
5 shamans required to raid 25s
Leatherworking mandatory for drums
Tank shortage every phase because there is one viable tank
>Heroic Dungeons
Were a welcome addition, having 5man content that is actually challenging and actually has rewards in it for raid-geared players (badges) >Attunements
Were also a welcome addition, filtering out scrubs and morons to some extent. Requiring honored rep with a faction before you can access a heroic at least reduced the chances of getting a fresh 70 in quest greens in your group. >Flying
Literally all the things people b***h about with flying mounts, also apply to hearthstones, portals, and flight paths. >5 shamans required to raid 25s
Really only three or four, and only """"required"""" if you're a sweaty minmaxing tryhard. My guild cleared all TBC content with only 3 shamans. >Leatherworking mandatory for drums
See above. Only "mandatory" if you're a sweatlord. >Tank shortage every phase because there is one viable tank
?
Literally all 3 tanks are perfectly viable. The only "unviable" you could possibly argue is Warrior tanks in Sunwell, and that's mostly just because Paladin and Druid tanks become so absurdly OP at that gear level.
>Were also a welcome addition, filtering out scrubs and morons to some extent.
Every version of TBC, private or classic, has shown the opposite problem to be true: it doesn't make your raid stronger by giving you smarter players, it makes it harder to fill a group at all and you take any warm body who can enter the front door. I've been an officer of a guild on tbc private servers, running Kara 4 nights a week and raidleading most of them because we needed to funnel up randos who joined the guild. I must have geared up near a dozen central american monkeys so we could get back to progression raiding SSC, and when they finally get in they fricking suck, or they leave the guild once you've geared and attuned them.
Attunments are fun, but TBC went overboard with them. WotLK decided to get rid of them when they should have just made them shorter.
>Were a welcome addition, having 5man content that is actually challenging and actually has rewards in it for raid-geared players (badges)
And then they added those badges to Karazhan and T4/5 bosses because no one wanted to do those heroic dungeons.
>Were also a welcome addition
And then they were removed and never added to the game again because no one wanted to do attunements >Really only three or four, and only """"required"""" if you're a sweaty minmaxing tryhard. My guild cleared all TBC content with only 3 shamans.
Post proof that isn't some pserver slop. You are not killing prenerf vashj/kt or any sunwell boss with only three shamans in the raid.
The dungeons were straight lines and paled in comparison to even the earliest vanilla ones.
The zones looked nice on their own but together they flowed together about as well as oil and water.
why are you so insecure over tbc being bad, that you would seethe so hard to make this thread and bump it with multiple vpn's holy shit end your pathetic fricking life, homosexual
>turning dungeons into ADD speedruns >raids were almost all completely bugged and had moronic gear >funneling the entire server into one spot making ganking turn from soulful hazing to making the game literally unplayable >worst quests/questing zones in wow up until bfa took that honor 15 years later >professions were actual nolife slavery >flying >blood elves are THE ugliest playable race by far
BC was the most overrated slop expansion the game ever had, it did have the best attunement progression though.
>17 years later >only private (fun)server caters to the exclusive always online discord circlejerking hardcore day-one raiders with overtuned values and custom heroic raid modes
It really wasn't good at all. The only saving grace was that Draenei and Blood Elves were fun new races.
Pros: >On the fly quests such as weird plants or random key items, made the flow of questing more interesting >Heroic difficulty made dungeons more challenging >Dungeons tuned in pieces instead of wasting 1+ hour on each >early greens outmatched MC epics making it easy if you didn't buy the expansion to continue with Vanilla content or get a head start >professions actually had an impact other than material farming >Kara was a very friendly 10 man raid for beginners and easy to schedule
Cons: >Every new zone requires grinding quests. >First zone has you pitted at the gates with the other faction, making it easy to gank newbies >First zone quests is "kill 30 of this, collect 30 of that." not 10 or less... >Introduces flying and immediately introduces anti-flying mechanics >rep farming is a complete and utter grind even as a human >armor had to be reworked for bears and warrs since it scaled poorly with rage generation >pvp heavily imba, especially druids and warlocks >world pvp almost always 1-sided on certain servers making it impossible if you chose wrong faction 60 levels ago >mandatory 25 man raids
Don't get me wrong, I liked BC, it was a step up from Vanilla, but it didn't compare to WotLK QOL or Cata levelling/phasing.
I personally thought that TBC was a step down from vanilla since it doubled down on the worst aspects of vanilla such as the grind to pad the subscription time, but didn't add anything worthwhile to the game.
>lore retcon to make blood elves join horde >lore retcon to turn broken into futa draenei >lore retcon to make illidan alive again >introduced heroic difficulty cancer >introduced meeting stone cancer >introduced LFG cancer >introduced flying mount cancer >introduced arena esport cancer
>lore retcon to make illidan alive again
this wasn't really a retcon, it was always ambiguous whether or not Arthas actually killed Illidan in their fight.
the rest is correct though
Ganker told me WoW died here and that flying mounts were worse than 1000 mega hitlers. That was like 15 years ago and I don't play these games so I have no personal opinion
>its literally the first iteration of retail
How are you guys this stupid?
The game has been the same ever since tbc, I guess you need a youtuber to tell you that since you didnt even think wow was p2w before the token
Dumb Black folk
>shitty plot that makes no sense >nothing but corridor dungeons that you farm forever to get reputation to get attunements and your pre raid bis >world pvp dead >shitty arenas >resilience >welfare gear for shitters with badges >daily quests
TBC was fricking awful and only wrathbabbies think it was good.
Arena is cancer, 90% of outcomes is decided by group setup. Not to mention mana burning meta.
Also playing tankadin sucked. You had to get your ass fricked to regain mana. It was the opposite of what tank should be doing.
The story didn't make sense.
"flying"
daily quests
blood elves
BGs killed world pvp 1000% more than flying mounts
dailies were literally just an easy source of gold/rep farming, nothing more
yeah belves will always be a flaw
You only spend time flying if you're gathering
Daily quests already existed
Blood elves are good
>Daily quests already existed
dailies didn't exist until TBC
thorium brotherhood quests are dailies
No they're not. There's no daily limit on them.
>blood elves
All true.
no one forced you to fly
i agree with daily quest
i agree because it was when the shitty alliance started to reroll horde
>"flying"
Agreed.
>daily quests
Not a problem as long as max level doesn't revolve around them.
>blood elves
It's WoW. All the races were butchered.
Heroics were overtuned slop and not in a good way
the initial rep grinds sucked. i guess you could criticize dailies but you didn't really have to do them so yea
you are probably just shit at the game, most of tbc is not hard
It's fun having 5 man content be difficult enough that you need to use CC and basic intelligence (Cata had that at launch too and people hated it after WotLk faceroll), but there were a few heroics where the tuning was clearly too high. Shattered Halls is the stand-out example, we would only run it for the attunement quest and had one tank who ran it for people because he was geared enough to make it tolerable.
Turtle is the first popular server to do it, but there've been a lot over the years focused on roleplaying and adding in custom towns. I hope the pserver scene becomes more focused on custom content that isn't endgame raiding over the next few years. Let classic be for the minmax obsessed manchildren, I want an mmo that is actually a fun online experience.
I meant a BC server specifically: Stormforge's Netherwing.
world pvp completely died. The only fun aspect of WoW was ambushing the scum on the other faction. Raids are boring, BGs are boring, the only worthwhile thing was hunting down and griefing the literal cancer of Earth (the average WoW player).
>irrelevant open world
>25 man raids
>10 man raids!
>epic 5v5 (max, lol) pvp battles (the only relevant pvp)
Nice MMORPG you got there, WoWtard.
>incorrect
>based
>comfy
>also incorrect
seethe more fftroon
There's just one massive glaring issue. That's not WOTLK.
Is there a good TBC private server? I want to go home.
Most of the old zones in the game became essentially non-existent because TBC pulled the whole game into a new world. It wasn't the size of Outland that was the problem, it's that it didn't expand on Vanilla zones that needed more content - and that became the standard practice for every expansion because of it.
Expansions should have added large changes to specific parts of zones, filling up empty or mostly empty space with new endgame content and instance portals. That takes some extra work making sure all the original quests in the zone still function properly, but they can update any quests effected. Hell, while they're there why not give other parts of that zone make overs and updates too, add in new low level quests referencing the new content, maybe add in entire new towns (or even camps) with vendors, repairing, maybe a flight path. Opening the gates of Uldum in Tanaris could have been an entire expansion in itself, turn Gadgetzan into the city it was originally going to be, make a boat that goes to some zone over in the Eastern Kingdoms like Arathi because it's important for new lore reasons, and revamp some stuff in there and Silverpine.
By making every expansion run away to its own map, they've wasted a lot of good space in the world, when the point of an MMO should be to go all over an extremely detailed, interesting, living world.
I mean, even if Blizzard did this, added new zones onto EK and Kalimdor.......you'd have the same exact issue. All the high level players would be in these new zones would the rest of the existing vanilla zones would be dead.
>you'd have the same exact issue. All the high level players would be in these new zones would the rest of the existing vanilla zones would be dead.
Except all those zones are on the same continent in the same instance you fricking moron
>t's that it didn't expand on Vanilla zones that needed more content
Except that is literally not true, there were many quests added into Vanilla zones during the pre-patch for TBC, one of the most prominent being several new questlines in Theramore / Dustwallow.
And that was a great thing! They should have done more of it! Then make level 70s go back there or somewhere else in Kalimdor! Expansions should have had revitalizing existing areas of the world as a core philosophy.
flying was a mistake, the only solution is to start over with WoW 2
Heroic Dungeons
Attunements
Flying
5 shamans required to raid 25s
Leatherworking mandatory for drums
Tank shortage every phase because there is one viable tank
heroic dungeons were great
>Heroic Dungeons
Were a welcome addition, having 5man content that is actually challenging and actually has rewards in it for raid-geared players (badges)
>Attunements
Were also a welcome addition, filtering out scrubs and morons to some extent. Requiring honored rep with a faction before you can access a heroic at least reduced the chances of getting a fresh 70 in quest greens in your group.
>Flying
Literally all the things people b***h about with flying mounts, also apply to hearthstones, portals, and flight paths.
>5 shamans required to raid 25s
Really only three or four, and only """"required"""" if you're a sweaty minmaxing tryhard. My guild cleared all TBC content with only 3 shamans.
>Leatherworking mandatory for drums
See above. Only "mandatory" if you're a sweatlord.
>Tank shortage every phase because there is one viable tank
?
Literally all 3 tanks are perfectly viable. The only "unviable" you could possibly argue is Warrior tanks in Sunwell, and that's mostly just because Paladin and Druid tanks become so absurdly OP at that gear level.
>My guild cleared all TBC content with only 3 shamans.
Post sunwell logs
>Were also a welcome addition, filtering out scrubs and morons to some extent.
Every version of TBC, private or classic, has shown the opposite problem to be true: it doesn't make your raid stronger by giving you smarter players, it makes it harder to fill a group at all and you take any warm body who can enter the front door. I've been an officer of a guild on tbc private servers, running Kara 4 nights a week and raidleading most of them because we needed to funnel up randos who joined the guild. I must have geared up near a dozen central american monkeys so we could get back to progression raiding SSC, and when they finally get in they fricking suck, or they leave the guild once you've geared and attuned them.
Attunments are fun, but TBC went overboard with them. WotLK decided to get rid of them when they should have just made them shorter.
>Were a welcome addition, having 5man content that is actually challenging and actually has rewards in it for raid-geared players (badges)
And then they added those badges to Karazhan and T4/5 bosses because no one wanted to do those heroic dungeons.
>Were also a welcome addition
And then they were removed and never added to the game again because no one wanted to do attunements
>Really only three or four, and only """"required"""" if you're a sweaty minmaxing tryhard. My guild cleared all TBC content with only 3 shamans.
Post proof that isn't some pserver slop. You are not killing prenerf vashj/kt or any sunwell boss with only three shamans in the raid.
Fury warrior here.
yes
The dungeons were straight lines and paled in comparison to even the earliest vanilla ones.
The zones looked nice on their own but together they flowed together about as well as oil and water.
Warlocks tanking warriors and rogues in BG without moving, just sucking your life
Warlocks seeding many people in the enemy blob so that all seeds explode at the same time
Good times because I was a warlock, but I've heard many insults by other classes
why are you so insecure over tbc being bad, that you would seethe so hard to make this thread and bump it with multiple vpn's holy shit end your pathetic fricking life, homosexual
Literally the peak of WoW. At no point before or since did every class actually have a reason to exist in a raid.
Casual reminder that the opinions of parseBlack folk and metagays do not matter in any context.
The old dungeons and raids were all better.
>turning dungeons into ADD speedruns
>raids were almost all completely bugged and had moronic gear
>funneling the entire server into one spot making ganking turn from soulful hazing to making the game literally unplayable
>worst quests/questing zones in wow up until bfa took that honor 15 years later
>professions were actual nolife slavery
>flying
>blood elves are THE ugliest playable race by far
BC was the most overrated slop expansion the game ever had, it did have the best attunement progression though.
>17 years later
>only private (fun)server caters to the exclusive always online discord circlejerking hardcore day-one raiders with overtuned values and custom heroic raid modes
Arenas are pure cancer
It really wasn't good at all. The only saving grace was that Draenei and Blood Elves were fun new races.
Pros:
>On the fly quests such as weird plants or random key items, made the flow of questing more interesting
>Heroic difficulty made dungeons more challenging
>Dungeons tuned in pieces instead of wasting 1+ hour on each
>early greens outmatched MC epics making it easy if you didn't buy the expansion to continue with Vanilla content or get a head start
>professions actually had an impact other than material farming
>Kara was a very friendly 10 man raid for beginners and easy to schedule
Cons:
>Every new zone requires grinding quests.
>First zone has you pitted at the gates with the other faction, making it easy to gank newbies
>First zone quests is "kill 30 of this, collect 30 of that." not 10 or less...
>Introduces flying and immediately introduces anti-flying mechanics
>rep farming is a complete and utter grind even as a human
>armor had to be reworked for bears and warrs since it scaled poorly with rage generation
>pvp heavily imba, especially druids and warlocks
>world pvp almost always 1-sided on certain servers making it impossible if you chose wrong faction 60 levels ago
>mandatory 25 man raids
Don't get me wrong, I liked BC, it was a step up from Vanilla, but it didn't compare to WotLK QOL or Cata levelling/phasing.
I personally thought that TBC was a step down from vanilla since it doubled down on the worst aspects of vanilla such as the grind to pad the subscription time, but didn't add anything worthwhile to the game.
WOTLK was the peak
dailies
>lore retcon to make blood elves join horde
>lore retcon to turn broken into futa draenei
>lore retcon to make illidan alive again
>introduced heroic difficulty cancer
>introduced meeting stone cancer
>introduced LFG cancer
>introduced flying mount cancer
>introduced arena esport cancer
i rate this expansion cancer/10
>lore retcon to make illidan alive again
this wasn't really a retcon, it was always ambiguous whether or not Arthas actually killed Illidan in their fight.
the rest is correct though
the draenei retcon was dumb and the only people who defend it are coomers who want to get their asses hammered by a draenei woman's fat horse wiener
Ganker told me WoW died here and that flying mounts were worse than 1000 mega hitlers. That was like 15 years ago and I don't play these games so I have no personal opinion
>its literally the first iteration of retail
How are you guys this stupid?
The game has been the same ever since tbc, I guess you need a youtuber to tell you that since you didnt even think wow was p2w before the token
Dumb Black folk
>shitty plot that makes no sense
>nothing but corridor dungeons that you farm forever to get reputation to get attunements and your pre raid bis
>world pvp dead
>shitty arenas
>resilience
>welfare gear for shitters with badges
>daily quests
TBC was fricking awful and only wrathbabbies think it was good.
Recently leveled through it in retail using chromie time, I think it was peak soul
>You can’t find a flaw.
Arena is cancer, 90% of outcomes is decided by group setup. Not to mention mana burning meta.
Also playing tankadin sucked. You had to get your ass fricked to regain mana. It was the opposite of what tank should be doing.