Crutch for dumb firstplays limping along with a sub-optimal build. Don't even think about doing the expansion area with it, you will not have the end-game levels to keep pace with the bullshit the expansion throws at you.
Hardcore games require the player to gather all of the resources before hard fights. With classic EXP system you know exactly what you need to do - solve quests, fight monsters, get gear. All of them are pretty obvious and hard to skip. With the Oddity System you don't know whether your fight is just hard and you need to git good or you skipped a lot of oddities in previous locations or you need to sidestep the fight and get oddities in new locations and then return.
It's pretty good on a first playthrough but tedious on repeat ones. I'm not going to open every single barrel I see and I'm not memorizing the exact location of all the Oddities.
It is a great system for casual games like Zelda, but a horrible system for hardcore games.
Crutch for dumb firstplays limping along with a sub-optimal build. Don't even think about doing the expansion area with it, you will not have the end-game levels to keep pace with the bullshit the expansion throws at you.
It's an experience that once you're done you never want to experience it again.
How would you improve it? I feel like less oddities but more XP per oddity would help (so each oddity is more impactful)
Maybe place the oddities in more 'important' locations/containers rather than just the most random places?
Just get rid of it. Classic XP still has the oddities exist as a nice reward for explanation while rewarding you for killing enemies, which is the whole point of the game. Oddity XP is just fricking lame and sucks.
It's the right idea in the wrong game, rewarding exploration over kills in an rpg is a good concept BUT Underrail is all about combat and killing things so it doesn't make sense to have such a system.
Can anyone tell me if this game's build system would support any of the following archetypes?
Sword + Psi "Battlemage"
SMG/Full Auto Pistol + Psi "Battlemage"
Sword/Knife/Spear + Battle Rifle/Sniper Rifle "Rogue/Assassin/Duelist"
Two-Handed Melee "berserker warrior"
Explosives + (optionally) Hammer / Gauntlets "Demolitionist"
Heavy Long Range Sniper Rifle "Ranger" (optionally with a pet)
Some form of Sword&Board Warrior.
Splitting between two different weapon types is often a bad idea since your main killing power comes from feats, which you really don't get many of. Taking psi is a no-brainer for pretty much any build, everyone can benefit from it in some way. Pure melee is painful, which is why hammer wizards are so popular.
>Sword psi >SMG psi
Perfectly viable psi is OP and can go with any build. Frick any "meta" build you find will go it just for temporal manipulation though SMG and sword are both a bit on the lower tier side for weapons. >Melee sniper
That would work shotgun sniper was my first win and it works on a similar idea >Two hander
Yes that works >Explosive
Ya its called every build >Sniper only
Probbably not a great idea though it could probably work. There are no pets* >Sword and board
Yes viable.
Long range sniper works (and it works really fricking well) if you go heavy into traps. The only downside is it turns you into Batman, meaning every fight requires prep time setting up minefields to snare and cripple clusters before they get close.
>if you go heavy into traps
The best trap in the game for a sniper is a bear trap, and it's the easiest to place. >every fight requires prep time
I mean, it depends on the build, but high STR Sniper can wield an Assault Rifle in the second slot and obliterate most encounters.
>high STR
Defeats the purpose of a sniper build. Might as well go full tin can. Sniper + stealth + traps is kino and requires planning out fights and setting up kill zones rather than simply running in and going full Rambo.
>high STR
Defeats the purpose of a sniper build. Might as well go full tin can. Sniper + stealth + traps is kino and requires planning out fights and setting up kill zones rather than simply running in and going full Rambo.
You don't even need traps. Stealth into Shooting Spree, Snipe, Aimed Shot and Ambush bonuses on top of that means you're wiping half an enemy group instantly. The assault rifle pairs extremely well because you can just Burst down anything that survives. Pure stealth builds are so fricking boring once you've done it the one time.
>Pure stealth builds are so fricking boring
Spoken like a true zoomer. You will never have the patience and wit to flawlessly execute every encounter, instead relying on your Grug-tier skull thickness to keep your rocks-for-brains intact after every engagement.
Nice job only reading half of that sentence. They're fun the first time around but once you realise all stealth builds are functionally identical and rely on enemies being blind morons just wandering into your caltrops and traps while you bully them from afar with a crossbow or sniper, yes, it gets boring. Zero variety whatsoever. Why the frick am I arguing with an avatargayging furry, anyway.
>+ Psi "Battlemage"
Technically? Temporal Manipulation goes well together with all low WIL builds, since its utility skills don't scale with effective TM level. Sword and Knife builds are incentivized to take 5 WIL anyways for Ripper. You'll have a harder time justifying skill investment into other psi schools, aside from Psychokinesis for psi monk build or a high STR hammer wizard.
>Sword/Knife/Spear + Battle Rifle/Sniper Rifle
Not exactly optimal, but you could take Versatility feat and the Commando Belt in order to have decent backup ranged weapon. However Versatility is best suited for light melee / light ranged weapons (i.e. SMGs and all pistol types). Basically you max out DEX at every point you can, leave PER low, pick Versatility and level up Melee skill. The idea is to maximize light weapon AP cost reduction from DEX, while Versatility makes sure your Guns skills will be up to par. You can also use a knife and Cut-Throat feat to play a stealthy pistol-knife operator build.
>Two-Handed Melee "berserker warrior"
There's spears and sledgehammers. While there's no rage, you can have high CON and pick feats that greatly increase your crit rate below certain HP% and stuff that temporarily reverts your HP to max. Intimidation scales from STR so you can pick a war cry sort of ability that lowers enemy skills and removes their stealth, and another feat that has melee kills randomly cause fear.
>Explosives + (optionally) Hammer / Gauntlets "Demolitionist"
Yeah, grenades go well with every single every build, but they're on a cooldown so you need something as a fallback option. Maybe double down on explosives with Metathermics, or pick Temporal Manipulation for lowered cooldowns, or any other ranged or melee weapon.
>Heavy Long Range Sniper Rifle "Ranger"
Sniper is one of the weapon types. Both lighter versions and heavier ones with high AP cost and penetration. No pets though.
>Some form of Sword&Board Warrior.
Player-crafted riot armor and sword.
Really liked it on my first playthrough, on the second I just wanted to get xp and level my character faster and see what he could do. People here recommended me normal/oddity on first playthrough and they were right in my opinion.
Needs to be a hybrid, give exp for combat so it feels rewarding to win. Give exp for finding oddities so it feels rewarding to explore. It's just that simple.
I beat the game twice on hard. Dominating actually worth giving a playthrough? I already did some cheesing on hard. I have to imagine dominating would require levels of gas grenades and caltrops that would constitute war crimes to win. Also 400% boss hp seems like it could be very very annoying.
I cannot say its worse than the usual Xp gain systems.
Remember Kotor 2?
Solve a really big quest for fuel shipment to Telos citdal station? 500 xp.
Repair 3 random war robots on Dxun and spend parts to activate them? like 1250 xp each or something ridiculous.
Farm the respawning monsters on Dantooine? infinite times 100xp.
First playthrough must, subsequent playthrough optional, unless you play on dominating because there is specific content for that difficulty.
Damn thinkin about it now this is the best shit Serbia has come out with since that dude broke that jar up in his butthole and caused the dissolution of Yugoslavia back in '85. Cheers from America. Cool game
I know famously the dev nerfed psi Reading recent guides really good players seem to think psi is net more powerful than before the nerf were any other strats/builds nerfed?
Not really. Psi is still obscenely powerful, and a lot of the spells that got added fill niches that many schools never had previously. You can solo the game with Plasma Beam once you get it that spell is fantastic, for example.
>Reading recent guides really good players seem to think psi is net more powerful than before the nerf
Yeah, aside from resource costs and limited spell slots they also added a handful of buffs. HP penalty for red-pilling yourself got lowered a bit, and single school psikers can get a feat that lowers psi costs even further which stacks with all the previous psi cost reductions, for crazy low spell costs. And you can still play a psi generalist, though now it works a bit like tabletop prepared spells so you have to pick and choose your spells according to encounter, rather than having every single psi spell from all schools available at all times.
I played just after the original psi nerf (not sure there were more) and dex monk on dominating still felt like playing on easy mode aside from the beast which was borderline immortal
Depot A is still a filter for 95% of the people that play it. Hell first time I got there it took me hours to get through. Though on my most recent run I beat it in like 15mins. Its shocking how much game knowledge changes things. Alot of tier 3 gnades never hurt either.
I think that was legitimately the only time I've seen people getting bricked in a game. Funniest shit ever. Especially when it was obvious they've only played garbage like Skyrim and get mad that their jack of all trades build fails spectacularly.
The funny thing was that people told them not to stretch themselves too thin. Also, the Expedition threads were the only shitpost free, gameplay only threads I've ever seen on Ganker. Nobody was shitposting, everyone was talking about the game.
I like it. Reminds me of ye olde Deus Ex where you get EXP for exploration and completing objectives, so you can either play the thing guns blazing or avoiding encounters. It also serves to indirectly buff some of the non-combat skills like Lockpicking and Hacking so you get EXP earlier, or Pickpocketing which gets you unique oddities for more overall EXP. Combat isn't completely disincentivized either since certain enemies drop generic oddities that cap once you get enough of them. But I think it's a moot point. The game overall is balanced around the oddity system in its current iteration, so I won't play classic since it results in your character getting overleveled.
The downside of the current implementation of the oddity system on the other hand is that their placement is pretty wonky. Early game until Depot A doesn't really have this issue since the whole thing's pretty much linear, however once the map opens up you're instantly incentivized to beeline for the oddity and quest rich areas like Foundry that has a frickton of easy content that often only requires you to explore and talk around a bit: despite the main plot steering you towards Rail Crossing or Core City. On the other hand there's lots of areas in the metro tunnels and caverns that have multiple difficult optional encounters but only a measly number of oddities. So despite the map opening up it feels like you're semi-forced to go through the same progression in every playthrough. I think the expansion handled oddity placement much better.
Pistols are about stacking crit and shooting a million times a turn. If you really wanna try hard it plan out what your primary pistols will be then check what dex is most optimal to get as many shots as possible without overinvesting. I did a chem pistol build was really fun though a bit RNG since at best its like a 70% chance to inflcit the status conditions. Though given that only like 2 feats actually go with chem pistols I sorta wanna say they are the best secondary kinda weapon. Get a good one and use it like a shootable magnesium/frostshot/green goo trap.
>Versatility
Max out DEX every time you get extra stat points to spend. You might want to leave PER and Guns skills low aside from feats you're planning to get, pick Versatility and Command Belt, max out Melee. You also get Dirty Kick as extra stun from Melee. >No Versatility
If you don't go Versatility you should still max out DEX at every point, but drop Melee and just have PER and Guns skill high as well.
You'd still benefit from picking psi for TM even if you're at 3 WIL. 20% of your max HP is a small price to pay for Contraction, Increment and Stasis; first one in particular combos nicely with Bullet Time feat. High DEX on the other hand lends itself to Throwing and nades for AoE, and Traps if you want to be stealthy. Like all builds, crafting is useful for all sorts of stuff from ammo to weapons - unless you're planning to use uniques and refurbish them at Rail Crossing. Tasers are useful since you're going to get close and personal. AGI 6 with Sprint and other movement bonuses are good for getting close enough to trigger Gun-Fu feat.
Later on you're going to have enemies with pretty high mechanical DT, so make sure to have a high AP cost heavy pistol in addition to your smaller caliber firearm, and craft armor piercing ammo. Or craft chem / energy pistols. They don't benefit from Gunslinger and other firearm pistol exclusive feats and vice versa, but they're handy for robots and shit.
Good for first playthrough where exploration and immersion matter most.
It's an experience that once you're done you never want to experience it again.
>tfw my only playthroughs are oddity and I wont change it even on dimonating
Crutch for dumb firstplays limping along with a sub-optimal build. Don't even think about doing the expansion area with it, you will not have the end-game levels to keep pace with the bullshit the expansion throws at you.
It is a great system for casual games like Zelda, but a horrible system for hardcore games.
Why is that?
I assume he means because it makes the game more difficult since you don't get as much overall EXP
Hardcore games require the player to gather all of the resources before hard fights. With classic EXP system you know exactly what you need to do - solve quests, fight monsters, get gear. All of them are pretty obvious and hard to skip. With the Oddity System you don't know whether your fight is just hard and you need to git good or you skipped a lot of oddities in previous locations or you need to sidestep the fight and get oddities in new locations and then return.
Loved it
It's pretty good on a first playthrough but tedious on repeat ones. I'm not going to open every single barrel I see and I'm not memorizing the exact location of all the Oddities.
How would you improve it? I feel like less oddities but more XP per oddity would help (so each oddity is more impactful)
Maybe place the oddities in more 'important' locations/containers rather than just the most random places?
Make them more odd
How do you mean?
Just get rid of it. Classic XP still has the oddities exist as a nice reward for explanation while rewarding you for killing enemies, which is the whole point of the game. Oddity XP is just fricking lame and sucks.
>as a nice reward for explanation
>oddity item on classic gives 5exp
>killing enemy gives 500 exp
Yeah right
Only grinding scrubs hate oddity
>Oddity
>doesn't require grinding
Classic chads doesn't even need to grind because we're always overlevelled
Half the oddity exp. Half the combat exp. Have both. Fixed.
This just reminded me that Underrail Infusion is still in development. What's your guys wager on when it'll come out? 2 years? 3?
I'd rather kill shit for xp
Why?
i'm a big fan but you should be able to see where an oddity drops if you've visited its area since some are easy to miss
It's the right idea in the wrong game, rewarding exploration over kills in an rpg is a good concept BUT Underrail is all about combat and killing things so it doesn't make sense to have such a system.
>oddity
>"Finally... *cough* I made it... *wheeze*
>1 XP
>Classic
>WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
XP
I have 200 hours in this game and have never been into the Deep Caverns.
I have almost 800 and have never been very far past core city
Can anyone tell me if this game's build system would support any of the following archetypes?
Sword + Psi "Battlemage"
SMG/Full Auto Pistol + Psi "Battlemage"
Sword/Knife/Spear + Battle Rifle/Sniper Rifle "Rogue/Assassin/Duelist"
Two-Handed Melee "berserker warrior"
Explosives + (optionally) Hammer / Gauntlets "Demolitionist"
Heavy Long Range Sniper Rifle "Ranger" (optionally with a pet)
Some form of Sword&Board Warrior.
Every thing you listed seems pretty viable.
There's no pets, though.
Splitting between two different weapon types is often a bad idea since your main killing power comes from feats, which you really don't get many of. Taking psi is a no-brainer for pretty much any build, everyone can benefit from it in some way. Pure melee is painful, which is why hammer wizards are so popular.
>Sword psi
>SMG psi
Perfectly viable psi is OP and can go with any build. Frick any "meta" build you find will go it just for temporal manipulation though SMG and sword are both a bit on the lower tier side for weapons.
>Melee sniper
That would work shotgun sniper was my first win and it works on a similar idea
>Two hander
Yes that works
>Explosive
Ya its called every build
>Sniper only
Probbably not a great idea though it could probably work. There are no pets*
>Sword and board
Yes viable.
Long range sniper works (and it works really fricking well) if you go heavy into traps. The only downside is it turns you into Batman, meaning every fight requires prep time setting up minefields to snare and cripple clusters before they get close.
>if you go heavy into traps
The best trap in the game for a sniper is a bear trap, and it's the easiest to place.
>every fight requires prep time
I mean, it depends on the build, but high STR Sniper can wield an Assault Rifle in the second slot and obliterate most encounters.
>high STR
Defeats the purpose of a sniper build. Might as well go full tin can. Sniper + stealth + traps is kino and requires planning out fights and setting up kill zones rather than simply running in and going full Rambo.
You don't even need traps. Stealth into Shooting Spree, Snipe, Aimed Shot and Ambush bonuses on top of that means you're wiping half an enemy group instantly. The assault rifle pairs extremely well because you can just Burst down anything that survives. Pure stealth builds are so fricking boring once you've done it the one time.
>Pure stealth builds are so fricking boring
Spoken like a true zoomer. You will never have the patience and wit to flawlessly execute every encounter, instead relying on your Grug-tier skull thickness to keep your rocks-for-brains intact after every engagement.
Oh yes the wit to flawlessly press quickload and quicksave
There is no need to savescum with proper trap utilization. Thanks for proving you run into every fight blind like the zoomer you are.
praetorian warehouse
Stealth is hilariously overpowered and is basically a 'I win' button.
Nice job only reading half of that sentence. They're fun the first time around but once you realise all stealth builds are functionally identical and rely on enemies being blind morons just wandering into your caltrops and traps while you bully them from afar with a crossbow or sniper, yes, it gets boring. Zero variety whatsoever. Why the frick am I arguing with an avatargayging furry, anyway.
>+ Psi "Battlemage"
Technically? Temporal Manipulation goes well together with all low WIL builds, since its utility skills don't scale with effective TM level. Sword and Knife builds are incentivized to take 5 WIL anyways for Ripper. You'll have a harder time justifying skill investment into other psi schools, aside from Psychokinesis for psi monk build or a high STR hammer wizard.
>Sword/Knife/Spear + Battle Rifle/Sniper Rifle
Not exactly optimal, but you could take Versatility feat and the Commando Belt in order to have decent backup ranged weapon. However Versatility is best suited for light melee / light ranged weapons (i.e. SMGs and all pistol types). Basically you max out DEX at every point you can, leave PER low, pick Versatility and level up Melee skill. The idea is to maximize light weapon AP cost reduction from DEX, while Versatility makes sure your Guns skills will be up to par. You can also use a knife and Cut-Throat feat to play a stealthy pistol-knife operator build.
>Two-Handed Melee "berserker warrior"
There's spears and sledgehammers. While there's no rage, you can have high CON and pick feats that greatly increase your crit rate below certain HP% and stuff that temporarily reverts your HP to max. Intimidation scales from STR so you can pick a war cry sort of ability that lowers enemy skills and removes their stealth, and another feat that has melee kills randomly cause fear.
>Explosives + (optionally) Hammer / Gauntlets "Demolitionist"
Yeah, grenades go well with every single every build, but they're on a cooldown so you need something as a fallback option. Maybe double down on explosives with Metathermics, or pick Temporal Manipulation for lowered cooldowns, or any other ranged or melee weapon.
>Heavy Long Range Sniper Rifle "Ranger"
Sniper is one of the weapon types. Both lighter versions and heavier ones with high AP cost and penetration. No pets though.
>Some form of Sword&Board Warrior.
Player-crafted riot armor and sword.
I think Styg is too nice. He should've just drop classical xp alltogether.
Really liked it on my first playthrough, on the second I just wanted to get xp and level my character faster and see what he could do. People here recommended me normal/oddity on first playthrough and they were right in my opinion.
Needs to be a hybrid, give exp for combat so it feels rewarding to win. Give exp for finding oddities so it feels rewarding to explore. It's just that simple.
That already happens if you play classic, it's just that oddities give a pitiful amount of XP.
Since there are oddities on some dead enemies, it's already rewarding.
Only ever played on classic, oddity seems like it would be very tedious especially on dominating where you frickin need those levels
First playthrough
>Oddity+Normal/Hard
Other playthroughs
>Classic+DOMINATING
Oddity+DOMINATING is the tryhard playthrough. I did it once
I beat the game twice on hard. Dominating actually worth giving a playthrough? I already did some cheesing on hard. I have to imagine dominating would require levels of gas grenades and caltrops that would constitute war crimes to win. Also 400% boss hp seems like it could be very very annoying.
Every single encounter requires perfect cheese and a completely minmaxed build, no room for error whatsoever.
you will not be able to fight most things when they become available so you have to go back and forth to clear previous content
I cannot say its worse than the usual Xp gain systems.
Remember Kotor 2?
Solve a really big quest for fuel shipment to Telos citdal station? 500 xp.
Repair 3 random war robots on Dxun and spend parts to activate them? like 1250 xp each or something ridiculous.
Farm the respawning monsters on Dantooine? infinite times 100xp.
Bring back old Spearhead
First playthrough must, subsequent playthrough optional, unless you play on dominating because there is specific content for that difficulty.
Damn thinkin about it now this is the best shit Serbia has come out with since that dude broke that jar up in his butthole and caused the dissolution of Yugoslavia back in '85. Cheers from America. Cool game
post Oinko you gays
All nerfs were unjustified
No you don't get it anon, this game needs to be the Dark Souls of CRPGs or some shit. Discord/forum echo chambers were a mistake.
I know famously the dev nerfed psi Reading recent guides really good players seem to think psi is net more powerful than before the nerf were any other strats/builds nerfed?
Not really. Psi is still obscenely powerful, and a lot of the spells that got added fill niches that many schools never had previously. You can solo the game with Plasma Beam once you get it that spell is fantastic, for example.
Sniper
>Reading recent guides really good players seem to think psi is net more powerful than before the nerf
Yeah, aside from resource costs and limited spell slots they also added a handful of buffs. HP penalty for red-pilling yourself got lowered a bit, and single school psikers can get a feat that lowers psi costs even further which stacks with all the previous psi cost reductions, for crazy low spell costs. And you can still play a psi generalist, though now it works a bit like tabletop prepared spells so you have to pick and choose your spells according to encounter, rather than having every single psi spell from all schools available at all times.
mods when, I need more content
I played just after the original psi nerf (not sure there were more) and dex monk on dominating still felt like playing on easy mode aside from the beast which was borderline immortal
Remember when Underrail first released and Gankertards got filtered HARD at Depot A? Good times.
Depot A is still a filter for 95% of the people that play it. Hell first time I got there it took me hours to get through. Though on my most recent run I beat it in like 15mins. Its shocking how much game knowledge changes things. Alot of tier 3 gnades never hurt either.
I think that was legitimately the only time I've seen people getting bricked in a game. Funniest shit ever. Especially when it was obvious they've only played garbage like Skyrim and get mad that their jack of all trades build fails spectacularly.
The funny thing was that people told them not to stretch themselves too thin. Also, the Expedition threads were the only shitpost free, gameplay only threads I've ever seen on Ganker. Nobody was shitposting, everyone was talking about the game.
This games just ok at best. Super overrated.
I like it. Reminds me of ye olde Deus Ex where you get EXP for exploration and completing objectives, so you can either play the thing guns blazing or avoiding encounters. It also serves to indirectly buff some of the non-combat skills like Lockpicking and Hacking so you get EXP earlier, or Pickpocketing which gets you unique oddities for more overall EXP. Combat isn't completely disincentivized either since certain enemies drop generic oddities that cap once you get enough of them. But I think it's a moot point. The game overall is balanced around the oddity system in its current iteration, so I won't play classic since it results in your character getting overleveled.
The downside of the current implementation of the oddity system on the other hand is that their placement is pretty wonky. Early game until Depot A doesn't really have this issue since the whole thing's pretty much linear, however once the map opens up you're instantly incentivized to beeline for the oddity and quest rich areas like Foundry that has a frickton of easy content that often only requires you to explore and talk around a bit: despite the main plot steering you towards Rail Crossing or Core City. On the other hand there's lots of areas in the metro tunnels and caverns that have multiple difficult optional encounters but only a measly number of oddities. So despite the map opening up it feels like you're semi-forced to go through the same progression in every playthrough. I think the expansion handled oddity placement much better.
I've started a psi-less pistol build
anyone got tips?
Pistols are about stacking crit and shooting a million times a turn. If you really wanna try hard it plan out what your primary pistols will be then check what dex is most optimal to get as many shots as possible without overinvesting. I did a chem pistol build was really fun though a bit RNG since at best its like a 70% chance to inflcit the status conditions. Though given that only like 2 feats actually go with chem pistols I sorta wanna say they are the best secondary kinda weapon. Get a good one and use it like a shootable magnesium/frostshot/green goo trap.
>Versatility
Max out DEX every time you get extra stat points to spend. You might want to leave PER and Guns skills low aside from feats you're planning to get, pick Versatility and Command Belt, max out Melee. You also get Dirty Kick as extra stun from Melee.
>No Versatility
If you don't go Versatility you should still max out DEX at every point, but drop Melee and just have PER and Guns skill high as well.
You'd still benefit from picking psi for TM even if you're at 3 WIL. 20% of your max HP is a small price to pay for Contraction, Increment and Stasis; first one in particular combos nicely with Bullet Time feat. High DEX on the other hand lends itself to Throwing and nades for AoE, and Traps if you want to be stealthy. Like all builds, crafting is useful for all sorts of stuff from ammo to weapons - unless you're planning to use uniques and refurbish them at Rail Crossing. Tasers are useful since you're going to get close and personal. AGI 6 with Sprint and other movement bonuses are good for getting close enough to trigger Gun-Fu feat.
Later on you're going to have enemies with pretty high mechanical DT, so make sure to have a high AP cost heavy pistol in addition to your smaller caliber firearm, and craft armor piercing ammo. Or craft chem / energy pistols. They don't benefit from Gunslinger and other firearm pistol exclusive feats and vice versa, but they're handy for robots and shit.