I suppose by metric of hours my favourite is PoE, but I don't like the direction that's gone lately. The balance between literally everything is terrible and it feels like there's no such thing as a choice you gotta measure out, just always the right choice and the wrong choice.
I played GD for a long time and really like it though. It doesn't have the lasting appeal of PoE but its character creation and customization is fantastic
Last Epoch is also looking like it'll shape up really well, I enjoy its itemization (for the most part), its solutions to curb player oneshots, the skill talent trees and just the concept of it in general, but the class locked gear feels a bit sad and it still feels lacking in things to do
Has Epoch been getting better? I was waiting on it to get all the rest of the subclasses before playing but I feel like I want something new to scratch the arpg itch sooner than later.
I reckon it was worth my money when I bought it back in like 0.7.0, but that's just me personally. It's got enough stuff to wring a good couple hundred hours out of it as it is, but I ended up sinking less time into it than I did in GD
Having said all that though, I don't actually remember how much I bought it for or how much they're charging now. I think it's pretty good and it's been getting better each patch (literally the only decision they've made I haven't liked is axing protections in favour of resistances, and even then the resistances are still done pretty cleverly), but whether it's worth the asking price is something I feel you've gotta decide
Endurance for all characters (last 20% of your HP takes 30% less damage, can be specced into to increase the HP threshold and increase the damage reduction), every class having access to at least one defensive skill, and not having a million mobs on screen at any given moment
Well, as long as it works.
Borderlands 2 was "balanced" on constantly getting almost oneshotted, and had multiple different mechanics to prevent actual death after that. And it sucked ass.
Been on an ARPG binge lately and as much as I keep trying to get back into last epoch I can't help but feel like I should just wait until the next update drops since our current characters are just getting stuck in offline mode. At least I managed to finish my basic ass shattered lance swarmblade build. Hopefully when the the online/multiplayer mode comes out my luck will be good and I don't have to spend 10+ attempts to get both swords and relic or bash my head against the wall against lagos for a max roll hp regen blessing/
The genre is still stale. What inovation has there been lately? You click on shit ad nauseam to get better loot to see bigger numbers to get better loot.
>I'm not backpedaling. I'm telling you why the genre is dead.
Bu this is far from the truth. Both PoE and Grim Dawn is still alive. Diablo 2 got resurrected and you're here being all mad so I guess it's still alive and well.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Isn't POE 2 coming out soonish? I heard it's just going to be an updated version of POE, not a separate game, but idk if that's right bc I'm not keeping a close watch on it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nope. PoE2 is currently slated: >Beta late 2023 >Release early 2024
And these numbers could still get pushed back.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well, not soonish, but not super far away. Do you know what they're actually changing about the game? I haven't played it since maybe around 2016, so I have no idea about all the newer stuff.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not everything is know, but here's a list of what is known (we haven't gotten any info since April last year): >7 new acts as a parallel to the current 10 act campaign, planned to take approximately just as long to complete for someone of equal knowledge and skill to the old campaign (so if you can do 10 acts in 10 hours, PoE2 will take just as long once you know layouts and such) >Massive visual quality update for basically everything in the game, most notably armors >Reworked gem system (gear now have 1-2 sockets max, except Tabula, which has 3 white sockets, Skill Gems and some select Support Gems now have the sockets instead, can't find an exact source, but endgame gem Vendor apparently sells 5Ls, what this means is that going into maps, you can have 7 5Ls in total and eventually upgrade this to as many as 12 or even 13 6Ls if you're willing to sacrifice enough slots for things like Unset rings, that one Talisman with a gem slot, the Maloney quiver that has sockets, and a Tabula, you absolutely won't want this many, but it will definitely free up a lot of stuff for socket-starved builds like Cold DoT or Summoners) >New Gem types, 2 shown so far are Transformations and Ammunition, Transformations replace your character with a creature who has an altered copy of all your gear, so if you have a bow and transform into a werewolf, now you have (whatever the frick) melee weapon with its stats, allowing you to use melee skills, but locking your bow skills for example. Ammunition skills are a new type of Bow skill which augment a new Crossbow weapon's implicit skill (hit a key, change your ammo and Support Gems to whatever Supports you have on that ammo type), things like fire and ice ammo on the same setup to allow you to change how your skill functions on the fly >19 new Ascendancy classes, which you will only be able to access via the PoE2 campaign until you have unlocked them on a PoE2 character, at which point you can access them on a PoE1 character
Ive always thought making the genre about the insane autistic need for forever grinding sucked ass. I just want to make neat rpg builds and frick about.
I was tinkering with the idea of a roguelite inspired ARPG where the gimmick of it would be that you would go through the process of making a build work each run you do. You'd find weapons à la Diablo while clearing floors or whatever; maybe have a few bosses, a randomized skill tree (?); not sure about character classes or archetypes. Runs would last between 30 minutes to 60? It's a very premature idea as of now though. What do you guys think?
>Why must every game be a roguelite/roguelike?
I get what you mean but I came up with this genre because it offers good replayability and I was trying to capitalize on the build creation process of ARPGs. Playing multiple small runs would maximize the frequency and variety of builds. Could you propose another format to reinvent the ARPG genre?
>I'm not backpedaling. I'm telling you why the genre is dead.
Bu this is far from the truth. Both PoE and Grim Dawn is still alive. Diablo 2 got resurrected and you're here being all mad so I guess it's still alive and well.
Ok let's change dead for stale. You win anon.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Ok let's change dead for stale.
Define stale since 99% of games within genres are also the exact same thing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Define stale since 99% of games within genres are also the exact same thing.
Lacking inovation. You are just arguing in bad faith, also >not an argument
many roguelikes already have randomized loot & builds with trees and the such, so if you make a roguelite with randomized loot you're just kind of making it closer to a lot of roguelikes, just with a different gameplay style
like look at tome for example
2 years ago
Anonymous
so tales of maj'eyal
Most of ToME's classes only have one or two builds available to them at most though and are clearly expected to be played in one specific way if you want to get anywhere. Things like Archmage, TW and Possessor with 3 or more good builds are the exception and not the rule, and even then 3 or 4 isn't many
2 years ago
Anonymous
Perhaps, I wouldn't know. I only play wizards. Seems true though.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I would say most classes have 3-4 well supported & strong builds and depending on what you find can enable a lot more builds. There are a lot of outliers in amount of builds though
race also plays a fairly significantly choice on enabling a lot of builds, if you only want to talk about certain difficulties or something then very few classes even have a build that's viable on madness, but you don't need a super optimized build to beat normal.
there is also a lot of choice in not just WHAT abilities you take but WHEN, and many others things like this, such as some classes generally picking from the same few feats, but others also pick from a lot more feats.
yeah there are definitely classes that can feel very samey no matter how you build them, but there are also classes where every build is very significantly different, I don't think this is a problem though
In diablo 2, you are managing 5+ buffs and debuffs constantly with skelemancer plus teleporting to reposition your army. With paladin you constantly switch auras to fit the situation. Not every arpg is one skill room clear spamming.
Ive always thought making the genre about the insane autistic need for forever grinding sucked ass. I just want to make neat rpg builds and frick about.
I finally tried Nox. Don't know why people even call it an ARPG. It's completely linear, there's no skill/point allocation, you don't even know how much xp you have before level up, there's no random loot, the scripted loot is mostly pointless trash with the occasional boss drop that just supersedes your current weapon until you get the invincible main quest weapon halfway through, and the combat is more like an isometric proto-Risk of Rain with Brood War bounds-map death traps than any actual ARPG I've tried. That being said, the combat/movement-mechanics are super fricking smooth and tight, but it's like they created the base of a new genre of ARPG and forgot to actually write a story or any RPG development.
I didn't get very far in Nox bc I got the quest to go get some dude's boots from a dungeon, and I went through the whole dungeon like twice and still couldn't see them.
Possibly last epoch. The druid forms are real neat. If they replace older models like they have been itll look okay. Each ability having a talent tree feels nice. I dunno bout buying it for more than $25 if you're picky. Wait for it to be finished though. Still a chance it could die and not be finished for a lot of reasons. Bookmark it, its neat.
feels like there are so few arpgs
most of them feel like they are really shitty as well
its odd how a genre can be so big yet also be so small at the same time. Many of them feel very hollow to play after a while as well, I wonder if they had some deeper combat mechanics and a little less focused on pure rpg stats if it would do better, just seems hard to get more out of the perspective and input style than there already is.
feels like the genre needs a big new shake up with some new radical but good ideas that shape it going forward
Used to be PoE, but they've gone full morono on rng bullshit and made players way too weak so we can follow "their vision" which is apparently "we be dork souls! isometric! muh precious market!"
sadly arpgs are VERY, VERY dead. PoE is the best of the bunch and the creators are autismolord morons, and then we remember that fricking Diablo Immortal is pulling money out the ass even though its absolute garbage, so corpos will invest in gacha kusoge.
Genre is dead. Say goodbye already.
>adds a lot more content
But the game already has hundreds of hours of content. Or are you one of those people who likes to spend thousands of hours on one game?
The one I just listed works in the current patch, don't know about the others. You can find it on nexusmods. Have to play it as custom game and disable steam cloud save in the settings in game.
I only played Torchlight 1&2, Titan Quest and a bit of Path of Exile, and I haven't yet played Grim Dawn but got it on a sale a while ago.
Which ARPGs should I go for next? I'm not really interested in Diablo. I've avoided blizzard products for almost a decade.
Hans, only gambling addicts say that current PoE is good. The game revolves solely around pulling the lever for pixels until it says otherwise and obliterates you with a one-shot.
>small >indie
Amazing how a multibillion dollar company, backed by one of the biggest Chinese investors is still considered a tiny indie developer among redditors.
well the latest expansion was a snore fest with nothing worth farming. nothing you can even farm, since the last boss drops nothing and forces a long cutscene everytime anyways
Vanilla game design is too fricked. Personally, the only character I was able to enjoy is a summoner Embermage with mods that make summons permanent, and add scroll merchants in every hub - to get summonable skeletons right from the first levels. And that's because Embermage has pretty cool ice prison, which can be used both to protect yourself and to trap any non-teleporting enemies, even bosses.
torchlight because it's simple and just works
throne of darkness because of the strong theme
>Skill descriptions have no exact info on the numbers it handles
Into the trash it goes.
I suppose by metric of hours my favourite is PoE, but I don't like the direction that's gone lately. The balance between literally everything is terrible and it feels like there's no such thing as a choice you gotta measure out, just always the right choice and the wrong choice.
I played GD for a long time and really like it though. It doesn't have the lasting appeal of PoE but its character creation and customization is fantastic
Last Epoch is also looking like it'll shape up really well, I enjoy its itemization (for the most part), its solutions to curb player oneshots, the skill talent trees and just the concept of it in general, but the class locked gear feels a bit sad and it still feels lacking in things to do
Has Epoch been getting better? I was waiting on it to get all the rest of the subclasses before playing but I feel like I want something new to scratch the arpg itch sooner than later.
I reckon it was worth my money when I bought it back in like 0.7.0, but that's just me personally. It's got enough stuff to wring a good couple hundred hours out of it as it is, but I ended up sinking less time into it than I did in GD
Having said all that though, I don't actually remember how much I bought it for or how much they're charging now. I think it's pretty good and it's been getting better each patch (literally the only decision they've made I haven't liked is axing protections in favour of resistances, and even then the resistances are still done pretty cleverly), but whether it's worth the asking price is something I feel you've gotta decide
tencent
log-in required to play
>its solutions to curb player oneshots
What does it do?
Endurance for all characters (last 20% of your HP takes 30% less damage, can be specced into to increase the HP threshold and increase the damage reduction), every class having access to at least one defensive skill, and not having a million mobs on screen at any given moment
Well, as long as it works.
Borderlands 2 was "balanced" on constantly getting almost oneshotted, and had multiple different mechanics to prevent actual death after that. And it sucked ass.
Been on an ARPG binge lately and as much as I keep trying to get back into last epoch I can't help but feel like I should just wait until the next update drops since our current characters are just getting stuck in offline mode. At least I managed to finish my basic ass shattered lance swarmblade build. Hopefully when the the online/multiplayer mode comes out my luck will be good and I don't have to spend 10+ attempts to get both swords and relic or bash my head against the wall against lagos for a max roll hp regen blessing/
Dead genre made for coomers and addicts. Very sad.
Dead by what metric? Diablo 2 just got a remaster, and Diablo 4 is coming soon and may not be completely terrible.
The genre is still stale. What inovation has there been lately? You click on shit ad nauseam to get better loot to see bigger numbers to get better loot.
>Instant backpedaling
I'm not backpedaling. I'm telling you why the genre is dead.
:^)
>I'm not backpedaling. I'm telling you why the genre is dead.
Bu this is far from the truth. Both PoE and Grim Dawn is still alive. Diablo 2 got resurrected and you're here being all mad so I guess it's still alive and well.
Isn't POE 2 coming out soonish? I heard it's just going to be an updated version of POE, not a separate game, but idk if that's right bc I'm not keeping a close watch on it.
Nope. PoE2 is currently slated:
>Beta late 2023
>Release early 2024
And these numbers could still get pushed back.
Well, not soonish, but not super far away. Do you know what they're actually changing about the game? I haven't played it since maybe around 2016, so I have no idea about all the newer stuff.
Not everything is know, but here's a list of what is known (we haven't gotten any info since April last year):
>7 new acts as a parallel to the current 10 act campaign, planned to take approximately just as long to complete for someone of equal knowledge and skill to the old campaign (so if you can do 10 acts in 10 hours, PoE2 will take just as long once you know layouts and such)
>Massive visual quality update for basically everything in the game, most notably armors
>Reworked gem system (gear now have 1-2 sockets max, except Tabula, which has 3 white sockets, Skill Gems and some select Support Gems now have the sockets instead, can't find an exact source, but endgame gem Vendor apparently sells 5Ls, what this means is that going into maps, you can have 7 5Ls in total and eventually upgrade this to as many as 12 or even 13 6Ls if you're willing to sacrifice enough slots for things like Unset rings, that one Talisman with a gem slot, the Maloney quiver that has sockets, and a Tabula, you absolutely won't want this many, but it will definitely free up a lot of stuff for socket-starved builds like Cold DoT or Summoners)
>New Gem types, 2 shown so far are Transformations and Ammunition, Transformations replace your character with a creature who has an altered copy of all your gear, so if you have a bow and transform into a werewolf, now you have (whatever the frick) melee weapon with its stats, allowing you to use melee skills, but locking your bow skills for example. Ammunition skills are a new type of Bow skill which augment a new Crossbow weapon's implicit skill (hit a key, change your ammo and Support Gems to whatever Supports you have on that ammo type), things like fire and ice ammo on the same setup to allow you to change how your skill functions on the fly
>19 new Ascendancy classes, which you will only be able to access via the PoE2 campaign until you have unlocked them on a PoE2 character, at which point you can access them on a PoE1 character
NOOOOOOO, NOT CLICKING!
AGHGHGHGHG
It does need need some innovation. I felt like Diablo 3 was just more of the same and I quit the genre after.
I was tinkering with the idea of a roguelite inspired ARPG where the gimmick of it would be that you would go through the process of making a build work each run you do. You'd find weapons à la Diablo while clearing floors or whatever; maybe have a few bosses, a randomized skill tree (?); not sure about character classes or archetypes. Runs would last between 30 minutes to 60? It's a very premature idea as of now though. What do you guys think?
Why must every game be a roguelite/roguelike?
>Why must every game be a roguelite/roguelike?
I get what you mean but I came up with this genre because it offers good replayability and I was trying to capitalize on the build creation process of ARPGs. Playing multiple small runs would maximize the frequency and variety of builds. Could you propose another format to reinvent the ARPG genre?
Ok let's change dead for stale. You win anon.
>Ok let's change dead for stale.
Define stale since 99% of games within genres are also the exact same thing.
>Define stale since 99% of games within genres are also the exact same thing.
Lacking inovation. You are just arguing in bad faith, also
>not an argument
many roguelikes already have randomized loot & builds with trees and the such, so if you make a roguelite with randomized loot you're just kind of making it closer to a lot of roguelikes, just with a different gameplay style
like look at tome for example
Most of ToME's classes only have one or two builds available to them at most though and are clearly expected to be played in one specific way if you want to get anywhere. Things like Archmage, TW and Possessor with 3 or more good builds are the exception and not the rule, and even then 3 or 4 isn't many
Perhaps, I wouldn't know. I only play wizards. Seems true though.
I would say most classes have 3-4 well supported & strong builds and depending on what you find can enable a lot more builds. There are a lot of outliers in amount of builds though
race also plays a fairly significantly choice on enabling a lot of builds, if you only want to talk about certain difficulties or something then very few classes even have a build that's viable on madness, but you don't need a super optimized build to beat normal.
there is also a lot of choice in not just WHAT abilities you take but WHEN, and many others things like this, such as some classes generally picking from the same few feats, but others also pick from a lot more feats.
yeah there are definitely classes that can feel very samey no matter how you build them, but there are also classes where every build is very significantly different, I don't think this is a problem though
Prodigies, not feats I mean, mixed that up.
so tales of maj'eyal
well he did say roguelite so I assume it would be similar in gameplay to arpgs
but yeah it sounds like he wants real time tome
In diablo 2, you are managing 5+ buffs and debuffs constantly with skelemancer plus teleporting to reposition your army. With paladin you constantly switch auras to fit the situation. Not every arpg is one skill room clear spamming.
Blizzdrones lmao
NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T LIKE BLIZZARD
frick off.
Yes.
Ive always thought making the genre about the insane autistic need for forever grinding sucked ass. I just want to make neat rpg builds and frick about.
>coomers
How does that make sense?
just let the zoomer use his buzzwords anon
>Dead genre made for coomers
Bitch, these games barely have any porn. You're probably thinking of Gacha.
I finally tried Nox. Don't know why people even call it an ARPG. It's completely linear, there's no skill/point allocation, you don't even know how much xp you have before level up, there's no random loot, the scripted loot is mostly pointless trash with the occasional boss drop that just supersedes your current weapon until you get the invincible main quest weapon halfway through, and the combat is more like an isometric proto-Risk of Rain with Brood War bounds-map death traps than any actual ARPG I've tried. That being said, the combat/movement-mechanics are super fricking smooth and tight, but it's like they created the base of a new genre of ARPG and forgot to actually write a story or any RPG development.
I didn't get very far in Nox bc I got the quest to go get some dude's boots from a dungeon, and I went through the whole dungeon like twice and still couldn't see them.
Possibly last epoch. The druid forms are real neat. If they replace older models like they have been itll look okay. Each ability having a talent tree feels nice. I dunno bout buying it for more than $25 if you're picky. Wait for it to be finished though. Still a chance it could die and not be finished for a lot of reasons. Bookmark it, its neat.
feels like there are so few arpgs
most of them feel like they are really shitty as well
its odd how a genre can be so big yet also be so small at the same time. Many of them feel very hollow to play after a while as well, I wonder if they had some deeper combat mechanics and a little less focused on pure rpg stats if it would do better, just seems hard to get more out of the perspective and input style than there already is.
feels like the genre needs a big new shake up with some new radical but good ideas that shape it going forward
garbage lootshitter games
This, Dragon Dogma and Dark Souls are some of the shittiest games I've ever played.
Used to be PoE, but they've gone full morono on rng bullshit and made players way too weak so we can follow "their vision" which is apparently "we be dork souls! isometric! muh precious market!"
sadly arpgs are VERY, VERY dead. PoE is the best of the bunch and the creators are autismolord morons, and then we remember that fricking Diablo Immortal is pulling money out the ass even though its absolute garbage, so corpos will invest in gacha kusoge.
Genre is dead. Say goodbye already.
Take the Grim Dawn mod pill and play Path of Grim Dawn, fixes the issues with Grim Dawn and adds a lot more content.
>adds a lot more content
But the game already has hundreds of hours of content. Or are you one of those people who likes to spend thousands of hours on one game?
Considering I have 6800 hours in Dota 2, yes.
The one I just listed works in the current patch, don't know about the others. You can find it on nexusmods. Have to play it as custom game and disable steam cloud save in the settings in game.
which mods are good?
>doesnt bother to integrate any of the PoE content into the game world lore-wise
>doesnt even bother to think of itemization for the introduced skills
kek, never said it was adding stuff from path of shit.
Does anyone know how long Torchlight 1 takes to play through? I was told it's about 45 hrs, but that seems kinda low to me?
I only played Torchlight 1&2, Titan Quest and a bit of Path of Exile, and I haven't yet played Grim Dawn but got it on a sale a while ago.
Which ARPGs should I go for next? I'm not really interested in Diablo. I've avoided blizzard products for almost a decade.
>I haven't yet played Grim Dawn but got it on a sale a while ago
then play grim dawn before buying yet another game you turbo tard
Game with best LOOOOOOT?
let me tell you about a sweet little ARPG made by a small company in New Zealand
Hans, only gambling addicts say that current PoE is good. The game revolves solely around pulling the lever for pixels until it says otherwise and obliterates you with a one-shot.
>small
>indie
Amazing how a multibillion dollar company, backed by one of the biggest Chinese investors is still considered a tiny indie developer among redditors.
Is it too late to unfrick it?
What's wrong with it? I own it but haven't played it.
Picked it up because I enjoy Grim Dawn.
well the latest expansion was a snore fest with nothing worth farming. nothing you can even farm, since the last boss drops nothing and forces a long cutscene everytime anyways
D2. I don't know why, it just is
God dam thread made me reinstall Torchlight 2
Recommend me a fun and strong build so I can actually enjoy the game this time
Vanilla game design is too fricked. Personally, the only character I was able to enjoy is a summoner Embermage with mods that make summons permanent, and add scroll merchants in every hub - to get summonable skeletons right from the first levels. And that's because Embermage has pretty cool ice prison, which can be used both to protect yourself and to trap any non-teleporting enemies, even bosses.