Timothy Cain Top 5 Modern RPGs to learn from if you are a game designer:
>World of Warcraft, because it's easy and fun foward
>Elden Ring, because it's hard and fun and innovative in how it applies status ailments
>Skyrim, because the environments are beautiful and about as close as you can get to a virtual version of pen and paper RPGs
>Fallout: New Vegas, because it perfectly took an old game and brought it to a modern era and had great choices with significant consequences
>Baldur's Gate 3, character customization and there's a lot of choices and reactivity
Runner-ups:
>Vampire Bloodlines
>Half-Life 2
>Vampire Survivors
These are NOT his favorite games or the games he considers to be the best, but rather games that are both modern AND have great design elements that people in the industry should learn from.
>about as close as you can get to a virtual version of pen and paper RPGs
lmao
>Half-Life 2
how is that an rpg
GRIDS have done a number on this old guy. I doubt anything he says can be construed as rational thoughts. Just being senile and the bug rotting his brain.
Ehh this homie is older than me but what about
>Ultima 5
>Dungeon Master
>Nethack
>Diablo
>Fallout 2 perhaps
???
He didn't want to name games he worked on himself (he was a designer for Fallout 2)
Just to be clear I'm not OP and I haven't watched his video or whatever, but
>Top 5 Modern RPGs to learn from if you are a game designer:
probably means just that, top games to learn from.
Anything good in those games is most likely already there in the games he mentioned. Even if there are some gems in those games, he didn't say
>the only 5 RPGs to learn from
First, he's talking about MODERN games, aka games from the HD era and onwards.
Second, he's talking about games that are specifically looked at (or should be looked at) as a game designer and nothing really else.
What can someone learn about modern day game dev by looking at Ultima 5 or Dungeon Master or Nethack or Fallout 2 that they won't already get from the games he listed above?
I'd argue he still feels bitter about Fallout 2.
you're like that dude screeching about zoomers being moronic because they don't know how to use rotating phones
Every single game in your list aged extremely poorly
You fricking wannabe boomer, stop being a fricking contrarian moron
>Dungeon Master
Mogged by 2 in every regard and that's before it even entered the dungeon
>Modern games
Meh, Elden Ring is just BotW on steroids and Skyrim is just Morrowind on scandinavia.
just truly vile normalgay taste
kill them all
, about as close as you can get to a virtual version of pen and paper RPGs
Anon... you know you can just watch the video instead of reading OP's truncated paragraph. Guy makes good game design vids
>Skyrim, about as close as you can get to a virtual version of pen and paper RPGs
newbie frogBlack person zoomerc**t tiktok-addicted trannie
putting any of those games near a top 5 list for anything BUT marketing says otherwise
>vampire survivors as runner up
just frick off in no world can it even be called an rpg
Name 5 mmos better than WoW at it's peak?
Any other version of WoW where you werent stuck in dogshit like ICC for a year
he's a homosexual just like (You), nodev
I always knew he was a groomer
>Top 5 Modern RPGs to learn from if you are a game designer:
>World of Warcraft
The frick?
Current day WoW might be a bunch of bullshit but vanilla WoW started an entire revolution that brought gaming into the main stream and brought an entire genre to the forefront of gaming for over a decade.
wasn't vanilla wow just everquest but with a powerful brand name behind it
No. It added a ton of QOL features to the genre that made it incredibly accessible for just about any player including but not limited to
>the ability to level up to max solo on pretty much any class any spec
>the ability to level up to max via only quests
>noticable quest markers / objectives above characters heads and objects
>in game updated in-real-time map to consatntly show your location
>giant seemless world that only has a loading screen into dungeons or cross continents
>pioneered the entire end game raiding setup being in tiers with a clear path of progression
and tons of other shit I'm blanking on.
it turned MMOs from virtual chat rooms where you occasionally kill some monsters inbetween resting for 15 minutes while waiting for them to respawn, into an actual game where you only have downtime if you actually want downtime.
t. someone that played UO and EQ and DAOC and Shadowbane and AC1 and SWG all before WoW came out, albeit mostly just DAoC and Shadowbane.
Nothing about WoWs popularity had to do with the game, which is why classic is just some chink RMT and streamer bait game
WoW was popular as a psuedo chat room, but in 2004 discord didnt exist yet so people used WoW as an expensive social network.
Theres not a single piece of game design to take from vanilla
>Nothing about WoWs popularity had to do with the game
That's just blatently untrue and anyone around at the time that was into the genre knows it.
Every other MMOs population was utterly crippled when WoW came out because players flocked to that game in droves.
And I'm not talking about your average gamer or someone that wasn't a gamer picking up WoW and turning into one. I'm talking about people that spent thousands of hours on single characters in EQ or UO, abandoning it to go play WoW.
Why would they do that if the game itself wasn't miles better than the competition at the time? They already had a game that's a virtual psuedo chatroom.
>I'm talking about people that spent thousands of hours on single characters in EQ or UO, abandoning it to go play WoW.
But these people arent the ones that made WoW popular. The games popularity was because it brought non gamers to MMOs, that was 95% of their playerbase
That's not true, but even if it was it's irrelevant given the statement
>Theres not a single piece of game design to take from vanilla
which was also in the post I was replying to.
WoW wasn't just successful because it was a psuedo chat room during the start of the modern age of the internet. People stuck around specifically because of how the game was designed, there are countless things you can take (game design wise) from WoW, and to say there is NOTHING is just foolish.
>WoW wasn't just successful because it was a psuedo chat room during the start of the modern age of the internet.
It was though
>there are countless things you can take (game design wise) from WoW
Not from vanilla, no. Look at your list again
>the ability to level up to max solo on pretty much any class any spec
Vanilla class balance is god fricking awful, lack of dual spec makes leveling tank/healer even worse (id argue barely viable). If you value solo questing then pretty much any modern MMO does it better than vanilla
>the ability to level up to max via only quests
Massive gaps in quest density at higher levels
>noticable quest markers / objectives above characters heads and objects
WoW is not the first game to do this
>in game updated in-real-time map to consatntly show your location
WoW is not the first game to do this
>giant seemless world that only has a loading screen into dungeons or cross continents
Skyrim and Elden Ring are already on the list, theres no reason to put WoW up for being open world especially when the world was mostly empty because 2004.
>pioneered the entire end game raiding setup being in tiers with a clear path of progression
Firstly not even true because ZG and AQ20 fit weirdly into the tiers of vanilla. And of course pretending raiding which 90% of players never touched until LFR had ANYTHING to do with WoWs success is a joke. It was entirely about the chatroom experience
>Theres not a single piece of game design to take from vanilla
lmao what an ignorant zoomBlack person thing to say. just outs your young age because you weren't alive to play any games before it. an overwhelming amount of games still use the quest/mission structure of WoW even to this day; every game where you talk to a quest npc, then go to a marked region or zone and kill 10 <enemies> or collect 10 <objects> for a small (dopamine) reward. before this quests were long and involved affairs with little to no intuitive ways to inform the player what they had to do. anyone that played everquest for example remembers the long allakhazam pages detailing how when the npc said "Begone!" they actually meant "kill a dungeon boss on the other side of the world and trade me a descriptionless vial of fluid they drop 3% of the time once per weekly reset.
WoW started the entire revolution of dumbing down games to the normalgay masses and ruining beloved genres while doing so.
Yes. And it also was one of the most successful games of all time.
So clearly from a game design point there's something to learn from it. If you want your game to be succesful, having it dumbed down to mass appeal is one route.
I'm not going to argue with an idiot that says
>Vanilla class balance is god fricking awful, lack of dual spec makes leveling tank/healer even worse (id argue barely viable). If you value solo questing then pretty much any modern MMO does it better than vanilla
while missing the entire context of my post.
Pre-WoW MMOs had maybe 2-3 specs across the entire class system (which were almost all way more advanced than WoWs) that could actually solo to max level. Every other class and spec was stuck grouping up.
WoW changed this completely and a large part of it's popularity is due to this concept.
I'm not going to bother going through the rest of your shit because you clearly missed the entire point I was trying to make - that no MMO at the time was doing all these things that WoW did, and those changes are a massive part of what made WoW as successful as it was.
That's like saying that we should learn how to cook food from MacDonald's because they are the most popular restaurant chain in the world.
>food analogy
lmao
No, it's like saying we should learn from McDonalds that people will flock in droves for cheap and readily available goods under the right environment.
>half life 2
>RPG
what
Deus Ex
System Shock 2
Planescape: Torment / Fallout 2 / Neverwinter Nights
I know these aren't "modern RPGs" but I'd still put these over Half-Life 2(not an RPG), Vampire Survivors(not an RPG) and Elden Ring(no point in making anything even similar to anything FromSoft makes, because you will always make an inferior product). I'd also replace Skyrim with Morrowind or Oblivion.
Oblivion game design is dogshit. Has the worst level scaling in any game ever made.
>Elden Ring
>Skyrim
>Baldur's Gate 3
What the frick is this Black person smoking.
Hes desperately trying to be popular with nuRPGgays so hes just jerking off whatever is popular
You cant get normalgays to understand your video if you name 5 esoteric crpgs only grogs have heard of
Are Dragon's Dogma and Xcom really that obscure?
He previously did a video about his favourite games they were all obscure ones, this was specifically meant to be more recent ones that people might know and be able to learn from.
>3 god tier games
what is the problem contrariangay? Don't like popular games?
OP's post was bait. In the actual video he discusses what lessons you can learn from each, including the ones that aren't RPGs.
What lessons can be learned that aren't present in OP's post?
He says how Half-Life 2 isn't an RPG but it has great story and combines different types of gameplay all together, and how Vampire Survivors isn't an RPG but it shows what a tiny team can do with no resources
Are the lessons to be learned from the Top 5 Modern RPGs present in OP's post or is there any missing?
Looking at OPs post again he did summarize those pretty well. Probably not bait, other than:
>posting someone in the games industry being sincere
>on Ganker
Is asking for hate replies by manbabies who saw the name of a popular RPG and started raging.
What are the lessons?
WoW-Marketing+Early Internet
Elden Ring-Marketing
Skyrim-Marketing
BG3-Marketing
Fallout- Guerrilla marketing
I think skyrim is a worse version of oblivion. But the thing which oblivion does very well is it starts with the foundations. I think the layers can obscure how good the foundations really are. Every input you give your character is the same as a randomised dice roll.
the only game this homosexual has designed is outer worlds
Good list, but I hard disagree on WoW unless he meant classic. The game already peaked, and it's only losing players for a reason. Also partial disagree on Skyrim. Hype brought in tons of people and tons of people brought in tons of mods. This isn't success that's easy to replicate. It being a basic open world game is liked by people though.
, because the environments are beautiful and about as close as you can get to a virtual version of pen and paper RPGs
Lmao, what? That would be BG 3, not skyrim
BG 3 is literally a direct adaptation of DND into a video game
Skyrim is an Arpg
BG3 would be a mediocre home game due to lack of options and hard railroading. Skyrim isn't a good game, but it has the freedom to want from a TTRPG. The simplified towns and theme park world design also mimic how a party interacts with the world
So it has the open world aspect of a ttrpg but none of the other aspects. That doesn't really make it the closest thing to a ttrpg. Because it doesnt have anything else in common apart from basic shit like levels that every RPG has
He means the the physical environments are pretty and open enough that it simulates that "go any where do anything" feelings alot of ttrpgs have.
Not that it actually simulates ttrpgs
>BG 3 is literally a direct adaptation of DND into a video game
I promise you, you will never play a table top campaign anything like BG3. It's not a direct adaption of D&D into a video game. It's a game that uses the D&D core ruleset as a basis to create something much larger than anything possible in table top.
Skyrim is much closer to what a tabletop experience is actually like. Small settlements with a few imporant NPCs, vast wilderness that has random encounters every now and then, endless amounts of dungeons to delve through, a loose plotline to string it all together if you want to follow that, etc etc.
Anon not every dungeon master is the same. I've played in plenty of games like BG3, the only big difference is the amount of freedom (less in BG3) and the battle maps being much more varied in BG3.
>I've played in plenty of games like BG3
lmao no you haven't you lying sack of shit.
i guarentee you, you've never played a tabletop campaign that is anywhere near the levels of act 3 of BG3. With hundreds of NPCs all with their own shit going on, dozens of massive quest lines, etc etc.
You've played paired down versions of that with half a dozen NPCs and one or two major questlines while your party fricks around.
>massive quest lines
lmao
>hundreds of NPCs
lmfao
GenericCitizen1 walking by is not a real character anon
Out of interest have you ever actually played DnD? A long campaign with a group of friends. You talk like someone who just fantasizes about it.
>dozens of massive quest lines,
play the game, moronicus
have a nice day.
>L-L-L-LOOK AT MY CHEIVOS
oh so no dozens of massive questlines? That's what I thought b***h
>noooo you can't just show proof that you've beaten the game multiple times when someone said you didnt play the game at all! that's not how it's supposed to work!!!
Like I said, have a nice day.
I've had an exalted game as the storyteller, it lasted about 4 years in real-time and by the end of the game, my players knew:
Almost every single 150 solar exalted(they searched for them with their sidereal friend
6 of the 50 infernal exalted.
Killed a bunch of abyssal exalt, out of the 150.
as they were lunar warlords themselves, they knew about 3/4 of the 300 lunar exalted(i had a lot of fun mish-mashing human-animal traits.)
They also caused the death of 96 of the 100 sidereal, leaving the destiny of the world to unfold itself with barely any help since all the maiden had been got by Nox, who became the new, sixth maiden.
I ended the campaign on a black screen after the youngest exalted in the pcs(a solar who had started as an heroic mortal) just one shot the one hundred health levels of the ebon dragon, so much so that he instantly vaporised a being that shouldn't be able to die normally.
I customised The return of the Scarlet Empress adventure book( it's so fricking shit, seriously) for my party, and the nigh end of the world caused them to travel a lot and make plenty of allies all over, including inside Autochton. and travelling inside hell to try and figure out what's happening.
They wanted to do a mass combat against the scarlet empress's armies. I stood my ground and refused, because frick that shit.
Their npc army dealt with the enemies while the pcs went up against god.
Literally every one the 10 or so DMs I've played with ran the game like Skyrim
Face it, no new DM cares about dungeon crawling or wild random encounters (not saying they don't happen, but they are never really "oh, random encounter is 4 wolves", they are almost all story related somehow, or introduce new plothooks)
Nor do they care about "vast wilderness"
I've had fellow players that talked about liking these sorts of things, and they have ALWAYS been older players.
Thank frick that shit is gone, no one cares about dungeon crawling, it's boring as frick
Not this guy, but I have played plenty campaigns that are closer to BG3 than Skyrim, you moron
*none of the 10 or so DMs
I'm moronic
I was gonna say lol.
My experience is the same, most of my DMs (and myself as a DM) its more like BG3, heroic fantasy with lots and lots of drama, NPCs with their own character acts that the party boblin, or ones the DM works on a lot in the background.
BG3 does a lot of things better than any DM would be able to do regarding encounter balance, loot, etc, but the BG3 model is pretty close to how I see the game played normally otherwise.
But the encounter balance in BG3 is generally shit.
Not as bad as owlcat, but not terribly good too.
The only interesting fight for a good chunk of time is in the spider caves.
>but my opinion about BG3
nobody agrees with you besides morons.
I agree with him. If you bought a larian game you're actually dysgenic
Pray tell me, how is a fight with gnolls that have multi-attack on ranged attacks and can be fought at level1-2 a good design?
Seriously, going to that fight first, blind, is like a dm rolling 100 on his encounter table and saying welp, this might be a random encounter that kill my party.
Except this time around, it's not random.
A good DM make encounters based on his party, not just pump up numbers because basic enemies are always so shit, that's pure Owlcat behaviour, like putting a chest with a power word: death as a trap low-level.
Nobody stumbled upon that encounter at level 1 or 2. Dont be so over dramatic in your shitposts sweaty
I literally stumbled on that fight first time by the end of level 2 and the leader gnoll never got close so we never could take the easy way out.
Shut the frick up.
i remember because with my level 3 gained from the fight, i thought one of the level 2 spells would have been damn useful.
i've had exactly 1 gm who was like this, lmao
and even he quit doing big dungeons and random encounters because the players didn't care about them, and just wanted 1-2 fights, and then the boss encounter
and he dropped hex map traveling super hard because even he wasn't having fun with all the calculations
you might be playing/running with oldheads who like this shit, but the majority of people nowadays just don't
Dragon's dogma is still a closer representation of an actual dnd campaign into a video game though.
>none of the other aspects
As in?
if you mean playing with a group, plenty of people have played dnd solo or with just one other person, Skyrim replicates that feeling.
You have companions either way, and can feel like you got someone.
What else do you think is common in ttrpgs?
I mean mechanically it doesn't have much in common. The combat system, skill checks, environmental interaction, the limited player choice, limited dynamism
I haven't played DND but I'm pretty sure it offers players plenty of freedom.
>I haven't played DND but I'm pretty sure it offers players plenty of freedom.
As much as the DM is willing to offer, which is generally not that much because he's one guy overworked on making a world's game for his players.
Well of course it depends on the dm, but the moment to moment interactions /fights would still be more dynamic than with skyrim
I tried playing DND but its like getting a job. No party/dm will accept you unless you have at least a year of experience
Fallout 2 was shit and this homosexual takes it up the ass
why are you Black folk seething over this shit? mindbroken ass Gankereddit trannies kek
>Skyrim
>FNV
Really?
Tunnel RPG when?
>innovative in how it applies status ailments
What a weird obscure thing to praise about Elden Ring. What does it even do differently in that regard than Dark Souls/Bloodborne?
Sounds like Timothy should play more video games aside from AAAslop and mobile shit.
>as close as you can get to a virtual version of pen and paper RPGs
lmao nahhh
Skyrim is BARELY an RPG
Kingdom come solo mogs all these combined
Same shit thread every fricking day.
>muh rpgs
frick rpgs they suck
>Dark Alliance
baaaaaased
I'm so tired of seeing this homosexuals face, go make indie video games or shut the frick up. You're not funny and any interest you had was linked to the games you worked on.
dont care what this homosexual thinks.
if you frick other guys in the ass, your opinion is invalid.
Found the homophobe
>Phobe
I am not afraid of them. Lock me in a room with one of them and blunt tool and ill beat it to death in minecraft
There's two lever of actions for humans.
Fear and love.
Your hatred for them comes from your fear of getting hit on by a gay.
Therefore, you are afraid of them.
Just not in the sense you commonly know what "fear" is.
Post research paper that supports your claim. You wont. Because you made that shit up. Get fricked moron
It's literally basic psychology, anon.
, because the environments are beautiful and about as close as you can get to a virtual version of pen and paper RPGs
This cant be real, how the frick does an open world action game where you dont even get to do any roleplaying have any resemblance to TTRPGs?
The environments, not the game.
Based Tim.
MorrowBlack folk ETHERED.
He talks about modern game.
His points for ER could be applied to almost every single FROM game, especially "how status effect work" because it's pretty much always worked like that, except maybe lost kingdom and Otogi which were on-hit.
Either way, it's been like that since demon's soul at least.
Bloodlines
Survivors
Such similar games, such different games.
for a white person he's a pretty dumb tasteless Black person.
Why is Fallout 2 so much worse than 1?
I was gonna write a serious reply with a list that doesnt look like was written by a discord troony but yeah
fair tbqh
Something I've always noticed about the so-called great creators whether its games or movies or writing is they are always dumb fricks with shit tastes. Its almost like these things are collaborative works made by several people coming together and it ending up good because of the symbiosis rather than the exceptional ability of any one person involved.
Tim Cain is a haggard old gay who was part of a developer that made the original Fallout and had his part to play in making the game. He was mainly the chief producer for Fallout, the lead designer was actually Chris Taylor and the other things like music and art were other people as well. He might as well be the George Lucas of CRPGs. His opinion means nothing to me, and based on shit like this it means even less now.
Good taste, I watch his videos a lot
>Skyrim
>about as close as you can get to a virtual version of pen and paper RPGs
Has he even played the fricking game?
Name a bigger fraud than Tim Cain.
>Skyrim, because the environments are beautiful and about as close as you can get to a virtual version of pen and paper RPGs
Senile idiot should retire. And by retire I don't mean just making games, delete your youtube channel. The Alzheimer's is clearly setting in.
>anything bethesda
>beautiful environments
lmao
>skyrim
>closest thing to pen and paper
lmao, more like closest thing to a unity asset flip. Skyrim is as much of an RPG as putting a dragon model in Garry's Mod