Heya.
I'm going to talk about an freeware indie Aztec city builder, called Tlatoani, link there : https://github.com/Perspective-Games/Tlatoani_Releases
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 Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
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Tlatoani Huey
Heya.
I'm going to talk about an freeware indie Aztec city builder, called Tlatoani, link there : https://github.com/Perspective-Games/Tlatoani_Releases
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Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
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>What is Tlatoani?
Free to play (so far) city builder, kinda inspired by Sierra's old city builders, but with ressources being used for construction, and money really being used for labour and upkeep.
Which makes it kinda tough, but mostly because I'm bad at city builders.
>another pharoah clone
like a dream come true
Amusingly enough, the main buildings are the fortress, where the Tlatoani Huey is (that's you), and the trading post. You start with these two, meaning that trading is immediately unlocked. At least with towns that are part of your empire, you still need to open trade with the others, and it's 2 500 axes. Free if you conquer it.
The houses are... well, if you played Caesar III or an older version of Tlatoani, it's the same. You put them, people arrive, make tents, and they slowly get better as you give them stuff.
Funnily enough, ressources like timber ARE used by the citizens.
Amusingly, while wood was kind of an expensive ressource in Caesar 3 (because furnitures were just so expensive), in Tlatoani, it's a basic ressource.
Through sadly, cutting trees of course cause them to despawn, but it leaves the trunk behind, so I assume they end up growing back unless you destroy them for good.
The way farms work in... unique, and very RTS-like : you have a hard cap on how many tiles your farm shed can maintain and exploit, in that case 32. It doesn't have to be nearby the farm shed, but irrigation might help the productivity.
The interesting part with farms is that maize isn't well-liked by the populace, but fruit trees are. So you're encouraged to plant trees around your maize to improve the "mood" of the place and make it more desirable.
As I said earlier, one of the interesting parts of Tlatoani is that your buildings need materials to be built, so you either pay extra cash to get materials, or you produce them locally and reduce costs.
And THANKFULLY, the range of your building/houses are indicated, so it's easy to tell if your buildings are too far from the manpower pool.
This is where it get complicated : shrines and temples require "symmetry".
I'm not sure what that means, so just try it yourself and explain.
There should be an overlay that will display the tiles which contribute to symmetry when you hover over 'axial' structures. It means what it sounds like- they like to have other structures laid out around them symmetrically.
Wait, you mean just around them? Like, in the immediate vicinity?
Yeah. The area checked varies by building-type- for small shrines I think it's only 6 tiles or so- but they'll check each cardinal direction and see if similar structures exist on the left/right of that heading.
I'd attach a screenshot to illustrate but apparently my IP is blocked from uploading images.
From the tutorial, I have this.
That's the ambience overlay, not symmetry. If you toggle 'symmetry' and then hover over a shrine or two you should see what I mean.
Jeebus, these captchas are a pain in the ass.
Yeah, but in the tutorial, these buildings are described as having good symmetry.
They do. Road on each side, and a 2x2 column of similar structures going... south-east, I think. (It's not hard to satisfy symmetry for the small shrines.)
I see. Kinda.
Gotta say, I love the trees by the canals.
Standard chinampa construction technique, but I'm glad you like it-
If anyone else runs into trouble with the tutorials, let me know where the problem comes up, and I'll try and check in again tomorrow.
Passion projects have that about them : they're full of details.
There's a lot, LOT more to say and a lot of products, but I'm out of time, so I'll just post a list of the granary. Enjoy knowing that pulque (whatever that is) is a product in that game.
Why do they look like slender men?
They did not know of Coca-Cola in that time.
I don't understand, does EVERY board get a lot of those obvious shill threads or is it just because vst is so slow that turns them into such eyesores?
Rentfree.
why not? i never heard of this game before and thanks to OP i can check it out, looks interesting thanks OP shill
Thank you. I wanna keep posting, but with the reception that dump got, I think it's better if I don't.
i think it looks good anon.
dont mind that coin clipper trying to shit up the thread.
probably just mad his actual shill threads get ignored.
I honestly like it, but I'm not very good at city-builders, so I'm having a hard time getting into it.
But I love the time period and all the goods, and I wanna talk about it.
Hide your shilling better next time. Shills are scum, no exceptions.
Not him, but we get shill dumps here every day. So long as they keep it in one thread and don't overbump, what is the problem? Shit is boring here since most days are just paradox threads. Lots of these indie projects nobody would even hear about otherwise.
Shills are scum. NO EXCEPTIONS. You let one seemingly unobtrusive shill in, you have to let them all in.
Nah frick off, this is a dead board and these indie games deserve a look.
You don't belong here, frick off.
I've dreamed of an Aztec city builder ever since I completed Pharaoh and Cleopatra, Caesar III, Zeus and Poseidon, and Rise of the Middle Kingdom. And I never would have found this game without your thread. Thank you for this. Appreciate your hard work. Why don't you release this like Nebuchadnezzar was?
I don't know, but I assume that's because the game is still in alpha, so it's still free for now. I have no idea if the dev wants to release it on Steam or if it'll stay a passion project, but given the details there are, I wouldn't be surprised if it stayed a passion project.
ive never seen a project with this much visual design polish be released as a dinky github repo
Sorry, missed this- it's potentially on the todo list, eventually, but I don't want to make promises until if/when a publisher is signed up. Thanks for the interest though.
First time for everything!
>i never heard of this game before
>t. another newbie
How one can be even newbie to a board that's what? 2 years old? 3?
Ganker is like 80% shill threads m8, you just notice them here because the board is as slow as you are
broke buck still got combo broken
I actually gets way less because we're active in our policing of the board and most of the people here aren't fricking moronic, unlike the other boards. I'm pretty sure the 'people' defending the shills are just shills themselves trying to make the board safe for them.
Frick off and post your trash on Ganker with the rest of the filth, shills.
I am not against it if its good and indie
Gotta support the industry and the people
Lots of good stuff lately. And frankly im feeling burnt out of my mind playing games recently
>Shill thread
>For a free game
>That was fricking supported by /vst/ from the get-go
Be an obnoxious tourist somewhere else.
And you missed how the redditor "forgot" the slashes.
>That was fricking supported by /vst/ from the get-go
I don't remember supporting it, and I am all of /vst/. You'd shill your mother for a penny
>t. found about this board last Wednesday, thinking his Ganker "humour" will fit right in
Pretty much, but don't say it, you'll make him cry.
imagine bringing up Ganker in a shill thread like shilling your shit game isn't peak Ganker. have a nice day.
Just for clarity's sake, I'm not the OP and I don't think 'shilling' was the idea.
Also just for clarity, while Tlatoani is visually similar to the impressions series, the walker behaviours are more similar to Banished, C4 or CotN and many other mechanics differ. It's not a 'pharaoh clone'.
You're wasting your breath on that Gankerermin. Xe thinks that not shitting on a game means shilling it.
I have horrible memories of Banished. All my farmers deciding to go visit the herborist guy instead of doing the harvest... And then one guy hogging all the food left and everyone else starving.
I... don't think that's come up in testing so far, but I'll keep an eye out.
Banished caused me so much anger. Rimworld was equally stupid, with my only hunter dying to a botched surgery and the rest of the team being nonviolent and thus unable to defend themselves when a squirrel went psychotic. But at least Rimworld is kinda fun even when you lose. Banished wasn't.
you don't know what shill threads are.
this is an anon running an ARG
>but it's not an Impressions game.
believe nobody in the impressions thread will complain about a new city builder
i'm really impressed OP managed to get all his posts off while being fricked in the ass
I'm used to it, my girlfriend does the same.
I think I've seen this posted on Ganker before. Looks interesting, I'll try it out when I get some time.
while i appreciate that you're bringing this game up to people's attention, it's best to bring this discussion to the Impressions games thread or we draw these abrasive autistic homosexuals like
to the threads like a wienerroaches to garbage
Thing is, the game is an Impressions-like, but it's not an Impressions game. And I dunno for other people, but I'd be annoyed if I made a thread about Caesar 3 or Emperor, and it got hijacked by Nebuchadnezzar or Tlatoani players.
Also, something that kills me : dev actually uses fruit trees are decoration at the bottom, where trees are separating houses.
How many fruit trees do you need to counter poor ambiance from buildings? One row, two rows? Farms can be further away since they have range of 8.
Apparently, one row is enough to balance out the dirt road, so I assume stone road+one row would be enough to balance out the marketplace. Through the marketplace doesn't look as bad as it usually is in these games.
Looks interesting
I like the setting, but sadly there aren't many games with this
There was a kickstarter or something for a similar mesopotamian citybuilder some time ago, but it failed. Does that have to do something with this?
Not that I know, I think the Aztec game is another project entirely.
It looks better, too, while Tlatoani is really... ugly and janky, but full of details. For exemple, the irrigation channels have trees planted on the side, to hold them.
Tried to play it when they released the tutorial but it was terribly optimized and I didn't have the patience to wait for it to load. Another anon here said it was very mediocre and less of a city builder than expected.
Shame.
Is this the tutorial for Tlatoani or the other aztec title?
It was for
.
Crying out loud homie, don't answer posts one by one.
Sorry, it's been a while since I did a Ganker reply thread, I've forgotten most of the options. And... yeah, pochteca could be real bastards apparently.
She cute though, so it's okay. Would totally let her sacrifice me.
>Here is me, barely playing the game, but b***hing
>I'm also bringing opinions of others, supposedly existing people, to b***h some more
This game never had optimisation issues, because it's designed to run on a literal toaster, you disingenious frick
Now I remember, it was this game
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aztec-empire/aztec-empire
But at this point it pretty much abandoned, it seems
Bleh. I don't want to know how many Kickstarter failed.
Nebuchadnezzar? I wanted to play it, what went wrong
Dunno? Last time I played it, NebuCHADnezzar was good.
Nebuchadnezzar is going okay, last I checked, though there were some problems with missing features at launch. Aztec Empire was another aztec citybuilder project that was cancelled a few years back.
>there were some problems with missing features at launch
Criminality and fire were added later. Now the game pretty much rocks. They even made the maps bigger, to avoid the Anno issue of running out of space.
>what went wrong
Dogshit launch state of the game, overhyping itself in general and very short duration of the game itself (2/3 of it is tutorial). In the end of the day it feels more like a tech demo for a planned game than the actual thing. Shame, because it was promising, but on the other hand, it was a passion project that got completely out of hand in late stages of production, so go fricking figure
Looks nice. Thanks anon.
>tfw no reducciones city builder
Kek wtf, poor op didn't stand a chance for posting his game, really though an Impression games style Mayan/Aztec citybuilder sounds amazing to me so I might check it out
Man it's piss easy to crap out the tutorial missions and force you to restart.
Where are you having trouble, specifically?
Honestly, I massively prefer shill threads for indie passion projects like these to having 50 threads for the same 10 games.
This game seems pretty cool. Definitely going to check it out.
Then maybe frick off back where you belong, redditspacing homosexual. Shills are subhuman scum and shill defenders are worse.
Thank you, OP. It's nice to have people who actually like strategy games in /vst/, most posters here are just Gankerirgins who got banned from Ganker for being too autistic.
I had bookmarked this then totally forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me. The dev himself was posting in one of the old tlatoani threads.
Have any anons played this yet? How are you liking it
>Have any anons played this yet?
Seeing as I'm the OP, I don't think I can answer that, but I kinda like it. Through it may be my Aztec bias talking.
It's decent. The progress on finishing it is going as snail's pace, but given it's a literal passion project for a single guy and the gameplay loop as such was finished two years ago, hard to blame the dude.
The dev stated numerous times that it's a passion project and he doesn't expect to ever truly "finish" it (with campaign and such), not to mention publish.
Is is the UI that's bothering you, or the sprites?
The mouse cursor that doesn't always work. Sometimes you missclick when having destruction picked up.
It's fixed by making the UI larger, though, so it's a hiroshimoot point.
Someone specifically complained about Tlatoani being 'ugly', though. I'm aware the UI needs a face lift, but reception to the sprite art was broadly positive, last I checked.
I mean... It's /vst/, so some people expect Starcraft 2 or Armored Core VI level of details. Honestly, Tlatoani would be more fit for an indie game thread, where barebones details are more easily accepted.
Or we can sacrifice complainers to Xipetotec and eat them as tortillas.
Whoa this looks good. Always looking for more types of various impressions-like games.
I thought chinampa were supposed to be floating gardens and not just packed in swamp or was that some other thing? You can make a swamp fertile just digging ditches to drain them.
Floating? Not that I know, chinampas are meant to rest on the bottom of the swamp.
>floating gardens
Called "floating" because of their appearance, not construction. They were more like manmade islands in swampy or shallow water. Similar constructions were made in Ireland, Scotland and Alpine Europe in the Bronze, Iron and Medieval Ages called "crannogs", which were artificial islands made by driving poles into a shallow lakebed, lacing wattle or wicker around them, filling the area with rough stone foundations and finally covering the stone with soil to build a semi-fortified settlement.
>normal people : dig moats around their castles
>Irish & Scots : build castles in swamps
>normal people
>>rekt my romans
>irish & scots
a nice bog
And thus never evolved past Iron Age.
the scots don't have steel today because they didn't dig moats 2000 years ago?
Oh, nowaday they finally have. But during the XVIIIth century, while everyone had muskets, pikemen, dragoons and cannons, the Scots still had swordsmen.
*Looks up list of scottish inventors during industrial revolution*
That might change, actually. I was busy with other projects/distractions for a while, especially during COVID, but I have more room to focus on completion now.
>scottish inventors
Ha, of course, Mc Buddy of the clan Mc Buddy, cousin to Okri Mc Buddy. Good ol' Team Buddies : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unv5XXZWIx0
>But during the XVIIIth century, while everyone had muskets, pikemen, dragoons and cannons, the Scots still had swordsmen.
The Scottish swordsmen in the 18th century still used guns. The highland charge tactic was to close to melee range under cover of a smoke volley.
Pikemen formations similar to those used in early modern warfare saw heavy use in scotland during the middle ages as a counter to the english ability to afford horses.
>The highland charge tactic was to close to melee range under cover of a smoke volley.
Which is exactly the same as Carolingian infantry. And Swedes even used pikes.
and earlier than that germans and spaniards would use greatswords and sword-and-buckler respectively to disrupt pike and shot formations
>g*rms
>sp*niards
Vomit
graceless and undignified concession accepted
>*by
How does it go? "Work with what you have, instead of dreaming about what you could have"?
My country exists, because it was surrounded by swamps in its nascent period and thus possible to defend despite otherwise being an open plain ready to be rolled over. If it was just a plain (which it is nowadays after late 19th century melioration), it would be just a Reichs march, for no moat would prevent a region-wide conquest
>My country exists, because it was surrounded by swamps
Hey, SHREK. A cabin in the woods is not a country.
>A cabin in the woods is not a country.
Try again
Poland isn't even a real country. If it really existed, there would be a movie about The Flood, and the duel between Colonel Wołodyjowski and Kmicic would be legendary.
It's the Deluge, you dum-dum. A flood is when a river goes out of its banks
Potop means the same. Anyway, Poland isn't a real country. Look at this, does this look like a real language?
Also why can't Aztecs be in Ancestor's Legacy? I get it, wrong place and wrong time period, but still...
Even Brandenburg was nothing but swamps until Frederick the Great.
Draining the lakes in the valley of Mexico didn't happen until the post-colonial period- there wasn't any natural outlet through the surrounding mountains.
Huh. The crannog connection never occurred to me before.
>angry baby woke up grumpy from xis nap and answers every posts that triggers her, one by one
Cringe.
>>>Ganker is that way
Sad that Serious Sam never covered Tenochtitlan. But at least I had Palenque, so better than nothing.
Case in point, if Poland was a real country, why are all the Pole names AI-generated?
Anyway, back to Huitzilopochtli's worship in Tenochtitlan by the Tlatoani Huey Moctezuma and the martyrdom of La Malinche, aka Mexicatl Quisling.
What kind of pets did Aztecs have, anyway? Llamas? No, these are more Incans, right?
Llamas are from south america, so yeah, bit too far afield.
The aztecs mainly kept pet dogs and turkeys for meat, and would have hunted for game like deer and quail and various aquatic fauna. The royal menagerie would have collected rare animals from all around the empire and other trading partners, especially birds like parrots and quetzals. Quetzal feathers and jaguar skins were important for making costumes.
New walker sprites are on the todo list.
>dogs
>for meat
For once, I'm rooting for the Sp*niards here. Dogs are friends, not food.
Turkeys are okay, though, they're fair games. Eat the frick out of them. DEVOUR them.
Gosh I hope they'll make a second cookbook for FFXIV, and add Dawntrail recipes. I have a lot of maize flour that I stocked up to make pudding, I need recipes to make cornbread.
Shame Conan Exiles has nothing Aztecs-themed, the game is genuinely fun, but the wildest thing I found were Picts weapons, and these use sharpened bones instead of obsidian.
>Turkeys are okay, though, they're fair games. Eat the frick out of them. DEVOUR them.
Whelp, read that as turks at first.
Wonder if Hiro cares that his jannies allow free advertising on his site?
If you weren't a newbie you would know he doesn't care.
also, frick off.
Are atlatls in the game yet?
People who throw spears are certainly included and I *think* I made some effort to draw them with atlatls, but it would be hard to make out from a distance? The walker sprites will have to be redone in any case. :p
But I like those creepy zombies they are right now
I'm eager to finish the tutorial and start actual gameplay, then. Once I get a break with work.
Well, I appreciate the enthusiasm, but it's not primarily an atlalt simulator, if that's what you're into.
Yeah, it's impressive. I learned recently that Tlatelolco and several other cities also had dual temples to the rain+war gods.
I was actually kinda hoping JWs would have more practical gear so they could be used as stealth troops of some kind and vary up tactics a bit, but it looks like aztec commanders mostly relied on... not exactly brute force, but let's say superior numbers? Nearly everybody had broadly the same weapons and tactics available, so you either surrounded the enemy, ground them down through attrition, or used spies and turncoats to get past the enemy's gates. No cavalry charges, no siege weapons beside battering rams, etc.
The Purepecha had proper bronze weaponry though, which is apparently why they were never beaten by the triple alliance.
Having war's already good.
this thread stinks of the least funny Ganker threads and of r/historymemes
Tenochtitlan-chan.
Speaking of Aztecs, For Honor added the jaguar warriors.
Well, For Honor is more of a comic-book take on history. All of the warriors there are blinged up with nonsense and more akin to 300 than, you know, history.
If you want to see something cool, there's a fairly new 'reconstruction' of Tenochtitlan. Especially nice to see it overlayed, though the guy most likely aligned it with Mexico's roads a bit to sell the before/after comparison a bit better.
>https://tenochtitlan.thomaskole.nl/
God damn. Tenochtitlan really was big.
Thanks, homosexual, you get the Spider seal of approval.
I'll still take a fanservice depiction over no depiction. Do you remember seeing Jaguar Warriors in Warlord Brittania or in Seven Kingdoms 2?
>Warlord Brittania
Kind of in the name there why Jaguar Warriors wouldn't be there.
Though seeing Jaguar warriors with macuahuitl and the spear chucker beating down Ezpinez war machines would've been great.
I mean, I wanted to b***h about Total War or Age of Empires, but they're in Medieval 2, and in AoE2 AND 3.
I knoooow. I'm also upset there are no eagle warriors with atlatls.
Jaguar Warriors are never done completely right...
What the frick.
>What the frick.
Aztecs featherwork was the shit and the appeal was quickly recognized. So once converted, making Christian icons with these methods became a very hi-class way of making a living.
Here's a drawing of some tribute about a decade post-conquest (so long before actual conversion took place) with a fairly clear icon of Mary prominent among the hi-value items.
...neat. I knew about the mythology, the architecture, the chinampas, the agriculture, and so on, but I never saw the featherwork.
Sure but I'm grumpy about them losing all the historical bling in the process.
>Unga bunga in a jaguar pelt with a club.
VS
>Top of the hierarchy warriors in full-body gamberson decorated head-to-toes with exotic bird feathers to mimic the appearance of a Jaguar's pelt, with a finely carved and decorated wooden helmet.
>Finished off with more breathtaking reflective featherwork on his shield, something that no vidya's done justice to before.
Real hi-grade gear of the Aztecs just hits differently and it sucks it's ignored for what's effectively depiction of a caveman strongman.
Plus an example of the real shield and the effect you need to sell with shitty graphics.
... and the ridiculous level of detail they could achieve with these.
Exotic, vibrant feathers were a highly priced commodity and the stuff they made them was basically the equivalent of a guy in purple, all-silken robes, wearing pearls and golden regalia with inlaid gemstones.
And these guys went to battle with this as their gear.
Damn, I had a doubt, so I checked, and AoE2 does the same thing, representing jaguar warriors as bare chested.
Not like AoE2 is historically accurate, but still.
These are some cool wallpapers.
Being a conquistador and seeing tenochtitlan for the first time must have been something else
>that before and after comparing it with current day mexico city
just frick my shit up
>no u
Good lord, the moron really is Ganker. Down to the catchphrase. What a pathetic loser!
Kinda off-topic but, is that one Babylon-themed Zeus clone finally worth pirating now?
Nebuchadnezzar ? Yes, totally.
Yes. Took them frickload of time, but it's pretty good now. Tutorial drags forever, but rest of the game is fine
I finally downloaded this and it is quite fun tbh. A lot of detail and content and seems more replayable than Banished or any of its clones. The neighbourhood aspect feature and "symmetry" feature for higher tier buildings kind of forces you to think about the future layout of your city rather than just plopping down plots haphazardly or letting it grow organically.
Glad to hear.
One question though - why can't I build clay pits in my random scenario? Is there a prerequisite building or population that I'm missing?
What do you mean, can't build? Are they missing, or can't be put down?
In my industry building tab, the only available building that produces raw resources that appears is the sawyer. The clay pit, stone quarries (I don't even know if there are others) simply don't appear. It seems that every industry building is present except for raw materials ones.
Also missing are most of the cultivars. I can grow maize and maguay but no cotton, chilis or cacaoa and fishing wharves don't appear.
Weird. But aren't raw ressources in another tab?
I can't find it. I can only see raw resources in my stockpile buildings or the trade menu.
The wonders of random mapping.
So I've started new random scenarios and the industry buildings and crops available seem to change according to the map. I started a new game in an arid region and finally had access to the rock quarry building and the cactus crop, but was missing the maguey crop.
Every random start I've made has maize, poplar and fruit trees for certain, and most industry buildings including the sawyer but with maybe one other raw resource building if at all.
Can you specify which map this was? And, if random, what settings you used to produce it?
There should be some safeguards to ensure all the basic materials are either available locally or can be imported cheaply for trade partners, but there might be a bug.
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying it.
I started with random jungle with river, got neither stone quarries nor clay pits. Which is odd, given it said there were stone resources and there are clearly stone outcroppings.
Every time I generate a random map the available crops and industry buildings vary, with most being absent. I have never had cotton or obsidian mines outside of godmode, and clay pits and stone quarries usually appear only rarely, but always just one but not the other.
Another thing I noticed: when I generate a new map it doesn't seem to make any difference in frequency of enemy attacks unless I turn them off completely. If I set the number of attacks to very low, I still get an enemy army sent every 3 consecutive months or so. So my gameplay is constantly paused because of notifications that an enemy army is 5 months away, another is 3 months away, another is 9 months away etc.
Can you show me a screenshot of the exact settings that you used to generate the map? There should be a specific city, biome and map-type associated.
I'm actually having trouble with the OSX build at the moment (the launch process is a little painful), but it's on the todo list.
Okay, I'm taking a look at the random maps at the moment and the available resources do seem scarcer than they should be. I'll check out the invasion-schedule as well. Sorry about this.
I think I've nailed down the cause of the resource problems now, but so far as I can tell invasions are being scheduled at appropriate time intervals. I'll have to do some playtesting and get back to you.
I'll do a hotfix for the current release in any case.
I am wondering the same about stone quarries. Is it just me, or are they... not there? If it wasn't for turning on god mode I wouldn't even know if they existed. Maybe I didn't get far enough through the tutorial, but I did not find any prerequisite.
People talk shit about Hitler killing 6 gorillion israelites or whatever, but what the Spanish did to the Aztecs was way more fricked up
Demand they hand over their gold and silver or die? homie, humans been doin that for millenia before Spain existed. Aztecs were not nice people anyway.
>it's okay to extort and lie because they waged wars
Two wrongs don't make a right, child.
When every neighbor the Aztecs had is willing to help the new faction in the land take them down it probably was considered a pretty big wrong to them.
Word.
Damn, cannot wait for you to spend the rest of your life whinging about the Egyptians, hittites, assyrians, babylonians, greeks, romans, persians, indians, chinese, japanese, mongols, carthaginians, europeans, americans, australians and a dozen others.
Might makes right. They take your gold, this is the norm and not an exception.
They deleted them.
That's the Incans, moron. And they killed Atahualpa anyway.
Aztec wonder.
Wow, what a moron.
Heya hoya heya hoya get ethnically replaced by Nahuas from the U.S southwest Hoya heya hoya heya Abandon solar deity for a bird snake haye hayo haye hayo Form alliance/empire hayo haye hayo haye get conquered by morons in funny looking armor with a funny god.
Get conquered? No.
They got exterminated. Literally worse than the israelites. Totally genocided, their culture deleted and what remains exaggerated to paint them as savages.
De Las Casas threw a shit fit at the king of Spain precisely because the natives were about to go extinct. That's why Black folk were shipped in as slaves instead.
Spaniards are subhuman genocidal monsters.
Cortes did a lot of nasty things, but "worse than the holocaust" leans into its own hystrionic caricature of a vanquished empire (cf the 'Black Legend of Spain'). The vast majority of Mexico's indigenous languages are still spoken and archaeogenetic evidence indicates that wholesale physical genocide was the exception and not the norm. Spain was also the first colonial power to ban indigenous slavery, fwiw.
Obviously there was an extensive 'cultural genocide', or the sacrifices to moloch would have continued unabated. I don't really blame the Spanish for freaking out about that part, even if they were over-enthusiastic about burning heathen manuscripts on the topic of cookery and herbalism, for example. It's a mixed bag.
Yeah, this is worth remembering. The Spanish had help for a reason.
I still think that Cortez deserves to get kicked in the balls. He wasn't as bad as Christophe Colomb, but still, we have lost so much of Aztec history and knowledge...
I think we can formulate an opinion about Cortes as an individual, or even the Conquistadors more broadly, without characterising the Spanish people as 'subhuman monsters'.
I agree it would have been nice if the Spanish had taken more time to preserve native manuscripts and jot down notes about the local culture and history, keep more of the architecture intact, avoid bloodshed where possible, et cetera. But in terms of their broad strategic objectives... it's not like they could just convert everyone to secular atheism and hand over operations to the UN. (Does that even work today?)
There's a part of me that likes to imagine the Mexica and other mesoamerican peoples could have converted to Christianity peacefully, or otherwise have internally reformed their religious practices, given time. There's certainly precedent for this when looking at other pagan peoples. At the same time, this would have taken anywhere from decades to centuries, at Gods-know-what-cost in terms of sacrificial victims, intertribal warfare, and so on.
I've studied Aztec religion and mythology enough that I flatter myself as having some kind of grasp on the general metaphysics and moral messaging involved, so I'm not going to say there's no truth or wisdom to it. The apollonian/dionysian interplay of Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca echoes some reactionary views on the cyclical nature of history, for example, and it's actually true that death mirrors regeneration and there can be no life without sacrifice. The Mexica and other MA peoples just took the metaphor a bit too literally, I think.
But if we're supposed to see things from a Nahua PoV you have to see things through the eyes of the Spaniards as well, and from that perspective they were simply dealing with evil incarnate. They were dealing with the agents of satan, and if they could secure gold and glory in the process of saving millions of souls, all the better for it.
>Does that even work today?
Worked pretty fricking damn well for Cambodia.
But that doesn't gel so well with the "hurrr UN bad durrr", so people always try to forget about that one, as if there was shame in success.
Point taken. Not an option in the 1500s, though.
Well, we didn't have UN back then, so it's moot
Could be worse. It could be A*glos. And their apologists
>mfw we were THIS close from Lubeck and Hamburg getting into the fry
I think I puked in my mouth a bit just hearing you bring up these waste of skins.
Yeah, I totally should have gone along with the "subhuman mongrel" rhetoric, my bad.
It's good to know that Ganker is an equal-opportunity bigotry cesspit, I guess.
We hate everyone equally. Welcome to Ganker.
Okay, I took the Tlatoani pill and you know what, I like it!
My only question; When do we get the linux build?
I'm glad to hear that. And, well, you'll have to wait for the dev to pass by.
Anyway, sorry about the rant. I might have a new build up later this week or early the next, assuming I can iron out a few bugs.
>there are sp*niard apologists in this thread
Revolting.
Honestly quite a nice little game,one problem i have is Tlaxcala "seething" and sending over every single guy that can fight to my city is that intended?
I've seen another anon report that invasions are being sent way too frequently on random maps, but after playtesting thus far I haven't been able to replicate it?
I'd recommend just switching invasions off for the time being when generating random maps, I should have a new release out in the next couple of days and hopefully a hotfix for the previous build.
Holy shit hahahahahaha
I think I've found the bug now- it only kicks in after around 2 years of playtesting, but basically an older version of AI-based invasion control was interfering with the pre-scheduled invasions. I'll have a fix for that shortly.
Based PR dude. You're a milquetoast too afraid to properly hate the xenos, but you're good at bugcatching.
Cringe Tau utilitarians for the win.
Still mulling that over, I think. Any long-term storyline/campaign structure is going to be released in bits and pieces, so that won't be decided for a while yet.
I mean, there's a lot of drama and tragedy to be wrung from the reign of Moctezuma II and the spanish invasion from a narrative standpoint, but from a mechanical perspective it's a bit like godzilla being sent in to wreck your handiwork in SimCity. And anything that gets rebuilt in the aftermath would be so transformed at a religious, technological and often aesthetic level that it's effectively a different civilisation. Modelling that in a citybuilder would require a huge amount of additional work (versus, say, an RTS or RPG.)
I'm tempted to conjecture the 'Random Map' option could eventually be turned into a Paradox-style alternate-history-fanfic-generator, so you could have scenarios where Moctezuma or Cuauhtemoc fend off Cortes, Christian missionaries do conversions with or without approval, maybe have a 'Meiji restoration' scenario, et cetera. But it's certainly not there yet and won't be for quite some time.
>defending Taus
I am unsubscribing from your Youtube channel.
And yeah, don't worry about any endgame crisis yet, through it'd be fun as a scenario, kinda like They Are Billions or Frostpunk where you essentially spend the entire game preparing for the end.
>so you could have scenarios where Moctezuma or Cuauhtemoc fend off Cortes
is it even possible? i recall the aztecs weren't really aware of the anti-aztec alliance going on behind their backs until they just went and attacked
Wouldn't mind some alternate history stuff myself. Would give for more scenarios that could prove interesting.
The Spanish were only about 1% of the forces involved in the anti-Aztec alliance, although they punched well above their weight and were great at breaking enemy formations, so any number of things could have gone wrong or differently before or after the Spain-Tlaxcala alliance, which was probably the major turning point.
The Aztecs making nice with the Tlaxcalans before Cortes arrived, killing the Spanish instead of trying to capture them, or getting lucky with a stray slingstone on La Noche Triste could all have spelled the end for Cortes & Co. All of this would have been uncharacteristic, of course, but not impossible. (I gather the Tlaxcalans themselves were grinding down the Spanish through attrition before realising they'd be more valuable as allies.)
Conversely, preventing the Alvarado Massacre would probably have tipped the campaign even further in Cortes' favour, so you can argue this both ways.
Never played personally, though as I understand it it broke a lot of ground for an RTS and the art style was certainly an inspiration (though it's more of a mayincatec mashup than specific to the Nahua or Mexica.)
I've mentioned it solely due to the "end game" of it: the game starts in 1400 and the head priest of your tribe had a vision about doom incoming from the East. The end game is Cortes and Co. landing somewhere at the east coast provinces and either you repel him and his army, or you're steamrolled. And Spanish units go through your warriors like a hot knife through butter, so you can easily get half of the map conquered by Spaniards before you can make a meaningful dent to them.
Still, different game, different mechanics, but food for thoughts anyway
Sure, I'll keep it in mind.
I'm not the OP, but the latest release should have 'preferred sacrifices' for each major God, and Huitzilpochtli prefers war captives, which your soldiers should bring back automatically after conquering foreign cities. (I don't think the game reports on this much at the moment, but mechanically it *should* work.)
That makes a lot of sense. The gods of the Aztecs as we knew them had a lot of weird specifics to the captives and rituals they preferred. Some preferred high class slaves, some preferred high class noble sons, some just didn't care.
By the way, has anyone else been able to confirm if the problems with random cities (resources missing, rapid-fire invasions) are fixed now?
Potentially. I'm tentatively planning for the final version of the game to have a selection of minor Gods associated with the Big 6 currently included, maybe similar to the Pharaoh system for temple complexes, so I guess those could pop up later in the campaign.
Just booted up a random map now and it appears the resource problem has been fixed
Ok, I lied; I started the game in godmode by accident. In this version I do get more industry/agriculture buildings but still not all of them. I generated 3 different maps and was missing some of the previously mentioned buildings but not as frequently. The nonstop stream of raiders seems to be fixed, however. I set the limit to "sporadic" and get one single raid every 6 months or so. Also wasn't expecting the fire/flooding mechanics at all lol.
One comment though; it seems that my little pops are a lot lazier than before. They don't build pathways or buildings as efficiently now and in all of my starts my starting population all leave because they build a couple of houses and like 3-4 other buildings and then just stop. They also wouldn't clear woodland when I designated an area to be cleared. Looking forward to sacrificing some captives to the sun god though!
Some maps won't have every resource available, so that's natural, but 'only building 3-4 structures before everyone leaves' sounds like a serious malfunction?
There should be a discord link on my twitter page, so if you could save your progress and upload the save-file there I'll try and see what's happening.
I figured out what was happening; in all those starts I had a severe shortage of timber and clay before I build a stonemason. So no problem with the game and a skill issue on my end lol
Something weird is definitely happening though. Any time I set up a nice starting settlement with housing plots, resources, sanitation, a marketplace and a temple, my housing plots just start to immediately degrade into tents and eventually vacant lots. My population counter doesn't move at all though and all the pawns just completely disappear on the map with a couple being frozen in place.
Yeah, like I said, if you're running into problems I'd recommend zipping up a couple of save files and sending them to me over discord?
Will do when I get the chance. One last note; last night I decided to try a scenario map and they all consistently crashed after about 1 or 2 minutes unpaused. The random maps don't crash but had those problems listed above. Will try to upload and thanks for the consistent feedback! I really enjoy the game and am excited to see how it will develop over time.
If there's a crash happening that should be recorded in the log file in the game's base directory, including a stack trace for the error, so sending that on would be great.
Also, if housing is de-volving you should be able to click/hover on the housing itself and it will give a reason for why, so you might try that as well?
Oh, thanks for that.
NTA, but is there a bug tracker somewhere, just in case?
... ever played "Theocracy"?
Based gamedev. Do you plan on ever adding Spaniards and smallpox as an endgame invasion??
OP did you remembered to make the heart-harvesting ritual be at least twice as effective in gaining your god's favour when you execute captured POWs instead of your own subjects?
I'm the OP. And I was busy all week end.
But also, a lot of the Aztec gods are local gods that got assimilated, so maybe conquering/vassalizing/trading with other cities could unlock more gods?
Does it feature realistic invasions by the Spanish who genocide all my people, rape and impregnate my women and create future generations of mestizo mutt rape babies? If not my immersion is ruined
Hi there! Please read the thread.
Good to know, though on reflection getting raided every 6 months also seems a bit too frequent for the "sporadic" setting? There should be multiple years of peace on the easier difficulties.
Accurate depiction of Tenochtitlan after the Span*ards passed by.
Aw, man, I miss the Myth series.
Not really a bug-tracker atm, unless you want to raise an issue on the github page? If you can find the stack trace or reproduce from a save that'll probably let me fix it pretty quickly.
I suck at Myth but I love the lore.
Just needed to know, just in case I met a bug and the thread is down.
Discord is the best place to message me apart from here- I log in to twitter occasionally but not very often.
Okay, but is there a game mode where I can play the Spanish and take a perfectly functional pre-existing city and turn it into a gold mine?
Wrong game for that. Go play modded Advance War.
Are we done now?
>page 10
We're done. It was fun while it lasted.
not on my watch
Who watches you, watchman?
I'm still waiting for the linix release ye basterd
Keep waiting.
Sorry, on the todo list but not top-most priority atm- probably after I sort out the hiccups in the OSX launcher
What's the current priority?
I *think* I just found/fixed the cause of the crashes outside of tutorial maps (though it would have been nice to get a crash report.) So there should be a hotfix for that on github now.
Neat!