Twilight Princess has a lasting appeal that the other games in the series lack. It's the last traditional game (three elemental dungeons, master sword, central gimmick, dungeon items) before the games became not-retro, and experimented with open worlds. TP is how I remember Ocarina of Time in my youth, before I went and replayed OoT only to discover it was barebones and basic. TP is the one with style, excitement, and variety. It has incredible horseback combat, even boss battles while on horseback. Each dungeon is immaculately designed with an overarching puzzle you whittle away at during its duration. If the game ever got a remake or so, the only thing I can reasonably think to improve it beyond the base game (after the remaster gave players a one-button press to switch between wolf and hylian) is to allow players the opportunity to choose which of the last four dungeons they wish to do in any order, and having players actually travel with their companions from the Adventurer's Guild out to their designated region, with additional complementary character development on the way to keep players engaged with that new section. Also, simpler ways to change day to night, or to toggle night to last forever would be handy for poe collecting.
TL;DR: it's good, replay it this decade, /vr/
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Not until they make a mod that removes that tutorial b***h that ruins the game.
Make a fricking zelda general already
Nice writeup, OP.
I've been itching to do some adventuring.
What's the best way to play this on PC?
if you dont have a wiimote then either emulate the Gamecube or Wii U version. there's no wrong way to play the game, it's that good, there's autistic little differences between them. I recommend using a randomizer or similar software applied to the Gamecube ISO to gain an additional feature of two-button press to change day to night and vice versa.
Don't use a randomiser for your first time playthrough of course
no, use the software to patch the Gamecube version if you want to make use of the day-night switching feature. It's also possible to make the spinner dungeon item go really fast, and can be used in hylian form as a form of sprinting.
Most Zelda games are just boring.
The "traditional 3D" ones especially: I had to force myself through Ocarina and haven't been able to bring myself to finish WW or TP.
My brother is the same way, he saw me playing one in my twenties and asked "how I could stand to play those games, they're so slow". I never thought about it much, but it dawned on me back then that they're games where you need to allow yourself to be relaxed, and drawn into the game's setting. The gameworld is as much as a character as any of the npcs in these games. Exploring the overworlds are like holding a dialogue with it.
No, what you need to be is 6 years old when you first play a 3D zelda game.
What he's saying is true though, they're games that work so that you contemplate them as you explore them and are designed around drawing you in and engaging your imagination.
Anon, if a game is only good if you use your imagination, it's not good.
Daydreaming is free and has better gameplay.
it's more like the game's world poses questions, and the things you do in them are your answers. I don't think you quite understand. There's faster games, that ask a lot of you in the immediate moment, but Zelda games are less solemn and present moments of self reflection.
Only a profoundly shallow person could say the kind of things you say about Zelda.
Aonuma brain poisoned the poor guy. We're lucky he didn't call everything a puzzle.
you make no sense, maybe that's why you need more brain dead games than Zelda.
>ontemplate them as you explore them and are designed around drawing you in and engaging your imagination.
You speak well on this subject, and I feel like I understand the context, but could you elaborate by giving a specific example?
When you reach Kakariko village, the place is engulfed in twilight. It's possible to use your senses to perceive everyone stuck in it, and they're all holed up inside the buildings, seemingly afraid of what the creatures are capable of doing to them. When you start to impact them, Link's friends comment on how they believe he's coming to rescue them, and that opening up the cellar to hide in *must* be him. When you restore the light to the village, Collin reveals he never once lost hope in Link. Then when the bokoblins rage through, Collin pushes Talo to safety and is then promptly captured. Link races off and duels the leader rescuing Collin, and before leaving him to the safety of the village he affirms his own act of heroism was inspired by Link, and he wants to be as brave and courageous as him.
The gorons are acting askew and wont allow Link passage to their home. Renado informs Link that Bo, the mayor of Ordon might actually possess the know-how to overcome goron's strength. Sure enough Bo has a secret, he's actually a well practiced sumo wrestler who has a ring stowed away in his home. After teaching Link the basics he gives him the iron boots, and makes him swear to never tell anyone his secret. Link is then able to gain the respect of the goron elder and is admitted inside their mines. Long story short, the goron's actually were protecting the villagers from one of their kin who was afflicted with the curse of twilight.
that's just one region of the game, but there's so much that's inspiring and ponderous in my opinion
>Anon, if a game is only good if you use your imagination, it's not good.
Thank god it's good even if you don't do that, then.
>Twilight Princess has a lasting appeal that the other games in the series lack.
This is true only if you need the games to shove all their shit in your face and gain minimal enjoyment comparatively from being offered something that encourages experimentation and is focused on playing around and discovering things on your own accord, where TP is the weakest of the lot easily.
Just how much "weaker" is it than OoT, considering it improved upon everything presented in that game. People think calling it OoT 2.0 is a dis, but it practically throws OoT out the door in favor of TP.
>Just how much "weaker" is it than OoT,
It's incredibly weaker by loading so much of everything onto its main quest and having you play through it as part of a single main sequence, you have no magical items, no freely playable instrument, the wolf is entirely abilities that were functionally items like the shovel, lens, scents mask etc. + Midna just teleporting you for arbitrary reasons and isn't cohesive or interesting in its own right. Like, the skultulas are hardly the best part of OoT, but that alone is better and just better designed than all of TPs collection tasks put together.
Like, almost every thing it offers is a weaker take on something another game did far better (you can fly eagles, in a straight line instead of having seagull free flight, your horse is used mainly for main quest set pieces instead of being something completely optional you discover yourself and use for side content like in OoT). Its dungeons and their items are ligitimatley mogged by SS of all things in terms of how creatively you can actually use them.
>by loading so much of everything onto its main quest and having you play through it as part of a single main sequence
how does this constitute a weaker experience? this is an example of it putting its best foot forward. It's demonstrating everything it's got. The opposite would be tucking away missable content everywhere, and that would lead to a weaker experience. If you say you would rather it be optional, and you would then choose to engage with that optional content, then I will not be able to help myself from laughing at such a wavering dignation.
>how does this constitute a weaker experience?
Zelda is about exploring things for yourself. You can look at each of the *great* Zelda games and they share this in common. TP will say "you must do X now" then mark something on your map, not let you do anything until you've done the very specific thing it has in mind, and just continues on like this, and that is so much weaker than throwing you into a world that you unravel like any of the actually good games.
>If you say you would rather it be optional, then I will not be able to help myself from laughing
It's not a matter if things simply being option vs non-optional, but otherwise "the same", it's that everything being shoved into a single, linear, forced main sequence absolutely degrades the design of everything. You can play LoZ, and while that doesn't have tons of optional quests and secrets compared to other games, the ones it has are quite good, and on top of that its overarching goal for you involves uncovering each dungeon for yourself by thoroughly exploring the land and seeking your own guidance with very little forcing your hand. In contrast, something like MM has a mainly linear main quest, but tons of side events to discover and explore that form the meat of the game. OoT finds a balance between these, which is yet another reason why it is rightly regarded as the best.
TP mostly throws this away and has very poorly designed exploration, weak quests and vastly too much forced guidance. Its 'meat' is dry and heavily processed derivatives from other games.
>not let you do anything until you've done the very specific thing it has in mind
It does let you do stuff. It only doesn't let you explore a specific area, which was also a thing in the other games.
> uncovering each dungeon for yourself by thoroughly exploring the land and seeking your own guidance with very little forcing your hand.
>meanwhile the deku tree, the owl, zelda, literally everyone in oot
Yeah maybe it's time for that english lesson
It bloats the main quest with what should really be relegated to sidequests.
>It's the last traditional game
Is Skyward Sword a joke to you?
I already said this in another Zelda thread but I dont give a shit. This is the best 3D Zelda. Best soundtrack, the best dungeons and the most in the franchise, Hyrule field is big but also has so much to find, the story is really good once it gets going, the best boss fights ever, unlockable sword techniques, cool side content, minigames, its got it all. I really thought this was the direction gaming was going to go in from that point on, the same formulas we love but expanded upon and bigger. Instead it just became empty open world slop and hallway video games nothing inbetween.
I recommend playing the Wii U version on Cemu and at 8k with the colorful preset applied in the graphics packs options(not as hardware intensive as you would think). Turn on hero mode with the Ganondorf amiibo activated too for 4x damage because the only flaw the game has is that its a little too easy.
>I really thought this was the direction gaming was going to go in
same, I thought it was just going to open up, maybe sword techniques could have been a dungeon item, maybe there could be a dungeon on horseback, maybe an enemy gauntlet in a huge sprawling hyrule field as you make your assault on Ganon's Castle. as a Zelda fan I had a lot of ideas for the franchise that, well they went another direction with this stuff.
CLOSE, very close, if Age of Calamity had proper dungeon crawling and such too, that would have been a sick mainline title, honestly.
TP is the worst possible direction the franchise has ever gone, and I'm glad at least that that was corrected, even if where it's at isn't completely ideal.
>and I'm glad at least that that was corrected
Yeah, it was corrected by making it a collectathon that was even easier (SS) and two open world games that could be in any open world series. Great. I am glad they course corrected so much.
The "traditional" game style was overdone and fairly boring, especially by the time TP came out. It was kind of acceptable when OoT redid it after ALttP, but the Zelda formula just continuing to do the same thing over and over again got stale and boring.
I'll give you the horseback combat for TP. It was pretty shit, but it was done better than any other game. I'd still rather be swimming around as Zora Link in MM than anything on horseback in any game.
The dungeons in SS were better than TP. I can barely remember the TP dungeons past the Yeti mansion, and the items in TP were either clunky or incredibly situational. Unless you're telling me that you rode around on the gear wheel for any meaningful amount of time.
The light seed/orb sections were actually good in SS, unlike the dull shit from the TP games.
>the only thing I can reasonably think to improve it beyond the base game
I would hope for a remaster which heavy redesigns the early game so it's less of a tutorial slog that has you running around back and forth. I don't think there is reasonably a way to make the game GOOD, but there are a lot of parts where you could drastically improve and it would benefit the fans of the game.
>Hyrule field is big but also has so much to find
Okay, that's a point for TP as well. Mind you, it's only real competition is OoT but still a fair point.
>unlockable sword techniques
WW and it's enemies with weaknesses to the limited sword techniques was vastly superior to the expanded number of techniques in TP but all being fairly pointless. Maybe if they made some mandatory story progress (so enemies would be vulnerable to them) and then have the optional ones be upgrades, so you could finish stuff off with a better flourish than the "basic" technique. TP was fairly disappointing in how everything can just be beaten by stabbing it like OoT, and all the techniques were awkward and could miss half the time.
Not retro
>But it was on the Gamecube
Frick off that was a quick port to cash in on poorgays who couldn't afford 7th gen yet because the Wii and cube basically share the same hardware
You're moronic lol.
Twilight Princess was always developed as a Gamecube game. The Wii version is a port, and a shitty, mirrored port too, so that Link is right handed for swinging the Wii's shitty controller.
The Gamecube version is the original version of the game, with left handed Link and all.
Guess we have to wait for BOTW's original verison then.
Dude, they had the Gamecube version almost completely finished when Nintendo decided to delay the game a few months so they could whip up a shitty Wii port for the Wii's launch.
The Gamecube version then came out a couple months later.
The entire Wii version is a mirrored, motion-controlled garbage port of the Gamecube version.
I'm not sure why I'm even typing this, you're too moronic to read.
>>The entire Wii version is a mirrored, motion-controlled garbage port of the Gamecube version.
Yeah except it ain't garbage, so you lost.
>left handed Link
Why does it matter?
She is autistic and pulling at straws to defend herself (autists project themselves onto the things they like)
it's kinda cool
I never thought about it much at the time but somehow it registers as SOVL now
t. lefthanded
it is pretty neat, I think it's a recessive gene, so the idea that each hero of legend displays it is kind of like the genetic tell that the prophecy is being fulfilled.
I like almost all of the Zelda games but jesus frick I find the 3D ones hard to replay, except for maybe OoT. They are great one and done games that you just fondly remember from time to time. In fact I replay 1 and 2 the most because they are just straight to the point, like you are just freely running around while constantly doing shit from start to finish, even ALttP isn't like this. It's a masterpiece but at times feels like a slog to replay
TL;DR Twilight Princess is a great game I never want to play again
Was this a wii game or gc game?
I don't remember
both.
It’s literally a hand holding slog. They took away the toddler toon art and replaced it with a toddler 30 hour tutorial game. I fricking hate it.
The only 3D Zelda games worth playing are the N64/DD games.
midwit opinion
TP is literally a midwit game for tards that can’t stomach actual Zelda games
Pretty much. It's basically a Zelda game made for people who normally play through JRPGs that just tell them where to go all the time for the next story cutscene, and don't see anything wrong with that.
Is this the new reddit meme or something? Every Zelda game told you where you need to go, multiple times even.
Every Zelda after the N64 and before BOTW is basically trash.
Take your linear puzzle garbage and shove it.
/vr/ lacks the ability to appreciate the game
Having replayed it recently (go for the HD version, it runs perfectly on Cemu), it's far more enjoyable than the basic b***h N64 games, but the "realistic" art style aged very poorly.
Also, the aiming controls are horrid after BOTW, in BOTW you just hold ZR and move the right stick, while the left stick still controls the movement, basically like in any modern third person shooter like say Resident Evil. In TP/WW etc /vr/ 3D Zelda you need to drop fricking everything, stand still, enter special first person aiming mode and drag a cursor across the screen with your left stick. This is the case for slingshot/bow/boomerang/clawshot etc, EVERYTHING. The dungeons that rely on the clawshot like the City in the Sky become unbearable slogs due to this constant stop-and-go nature.
It's still my favorite pre-BOTW 3D Zelda though (haven't played SS yet, but I will later this year, already got the remaster).
Fitting that a botw troon would love troonlight prinshit
Frick off back to /misc/, moron.
The clawshot is fun to use on the Wii :^) Same for SS. Shit sword combat (the idea itself is cool it's just that even in the Switch port it doesn't work like half of the time) but cool aiming mechanics
What's wrong with the graphics? they look significantly better than Ocarina of Time, which shouldn't be surprising considering it came out on a console with only 4mb of vRAM at the time.
It's the "brown bloom" trend of that era, Wind Waker's art style aged much more gracefully (TP has way better gameplay though).
Yeah, you can just z-target instead of using the first person aim mode (which grounds you) but the clawshot puzzles require first person aiming.
>Wind Waker's art style aged much more gracefully
It's hideous though, everyone is misshaped and lack detail on them. Cel-shading is the worst art there is. TP is cool because it's like some wild west shit.
Can you not continue to move around while aiming as long as you hold the left trigger?
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In Ocarina of Nostalgia Navi interrupts you fricking non-stop, in TP you have to press the Midna button for her to pop up and offer some advice (I mostly used it in boss fights because it often wasn't obvious what I was supposed to do).
I wish Midna would offer more advice too. I never got stuck in OoT, but in TP I looked for a switch in a room for longer than I like to admit. All it would have taken was that abominable imp saying "perhaps there's a switch if you look around". I didn't know I was looking for one until I found it in the most unimaginable place, lol.
>5 hr tutorial
>bug hunting
>wolf sections
>Terrible pacing
>Ganondorf was behind it all!
>Just as easy as Wind Waker
>Dull ugly version of OoT
>Terrible Anime story
>Useless items
>Dungeons are glorified set pieces
>Overworld is somehow worse than the N64 games.
Twilight Princess fools people into thinking it's this grand, epic, mature, Zelda game when in reality it was a paint by the numbers Zelda game that retained most of Wind Waker's flaws. People like the idea of Twilight Princess not the actual game itself. The dungeons also fool players into thinking they are more complex than they actually are. TP killed traditional 3d Zelda and Skyward Sword buried it.
stop pasting this shit everywhere, it's never been true. you've been refuted at least a dozen times.
Recently replayed TP and people saying it has the best dungeons is laughable. That still goes to ALttP and OoT, with Majoras Mask and LA being second and third.
Every single one of TPs dungeons is effectively a linear corridor, impossible to get lost out with any need to think.
>with Majoras Mask
Now that's the most hipster opinion I saw all year
How the frick can that even be considered a hipster opinion? The dungeons in that game are engaging.
>How the frick can that even be considered a hipster opinion?
MM had poor reception on release, so "MM is secretly one of the best Zelda's ever" is a huge hipster take.
>MM had poor reception on release
It didn't. It had mixed reception and was almost universally regarded as being not as good as the "all time greatest" game it was trying to succeed, but it was overall seen as a pretty good game despite it's relative weaknesses and the overall weirdness of the time system.
Dude, a lot of people outright didn't care for it because of the dumb time limit.
What’s that got to do with MM dungeons absolutely assfricking Toilet Princess? Your gay game sucks ass
lmaooo, TP has the biggest and most complex dungeons in the series, just deal with it
Depends on who you asked, got great reception here.
Not as good as OoT but definately a fresh experience worth playing
>>How the frick can that even be considered a hipster opinion?
Nobody ever talks about the dungeons in that game in a positive light.
MM has great dungeons.
>That still goes to ALttP and OoT
speaking of laughable..
Name five Zelda games with better dungeons
Zelda 1, zelda 2, wand of gamelon, faces of evil, and triforce heroes. Easy.
Awakening, Seasons/Ages (count them as one if you must), because Twilight Princess has the best dungeons, Minish Cap, Link Between worlds is an improvement that thinks in three dimensions even moreso, Majora's Mask has the second best dungeons.
Even Wind Waker before the companion gimmick has improvements over OoT.
Dungeons in this game was dogshit too. Glad others are speaking up.
Lamest Ganon fight in the series. And the wolf part felt very limited and straightforward. Snowboarding and flying controlled like ass, otherwise great game.
Toilet Paper fans have officially replaced Wind Waker fanboys.
Not only defending a walmart version of OoT with a Elder Scolls skin, but their hentai-obsessed degeneracy on top of that.
TP is absolute dogshit. There's been 2 or 3 anons trying to get this game over and it's not working. 8.8 was too high of a score.
Huh? You can't get the game working?
>B-But..the dungeons are good
You're not navigating a dungeon, you're just solving room after room. It's like if you played BOTW shrines in sequence, but none of the rooms in TP are as good. Keys just keep you on track instead of being secrets to push deeper in the dungeon.
There's never been a Zelda game where you navigate a dungeon that's not adjacent puzzle rooms.
My point is you have to have some spatial awareness in other Zelda games. There's none of that in TP. All the dungeons in that game are straight forward. You never have more than 1 key at once. You never have to figure out where to go next. Compare that to the Forest Temple in OOT or the Ice palace in ALTTP. TP had the same easy straight forward dungeon design that WW got criticized for.
Twilight Princess having "good" dungeons is the biggest meme in the franchise. You never hold more than 1 key at a time in TP. Compare that to the dungeons in A link to the past where you would hold multiple keys at once. You had to be aware of the layout of the dungeons in ALTTP. You had to figure out which way to proceed.
Ocarina of Time also had this. Forest Temple and Water Temple forced you to pay attention to your surroundings. And while the rest of the dungeons are linear in Ocarina of Time, the game constantly threw new types of puzzle at you to compensate. For example, the puzzles revolving around lens of truth in the shadow temple.
There is no progression for the dungeons in TP. The first dungeon plays exactly like the last one.
>The first dungeon plays exactly like the last one.
Yeah, Goron Mines and City in the sky especially.
Man, you TP hating baboons are drooling from the mouth
In terms of layout they are the same. Go left, go right, go straight. They were just giant set pieces, not actual dungeons to explore and solve.
>You never hold more than 1 key at a time in TP.
I've only seen this thrown around on Ganker like two times, I suspect it was you. Do you remember how you got refuted last time at all?
TP has more natural paths of progression beyond doors. Instead of finding a key and unlocking a door, you solve puzzles, and use dungeon items to navigate through the dungeons.
A fun question for you is, which dungeons in Ocarina of Time and how many times did you get several keys and choose which doors to go through, and how many times did it not matter which one you chose, you would get another key to go back through the other doors after? really think about this, this time anon. I get sick of hearing you ironically claim something to be a meme, and then just saying the same shit you did last time. You're going to become as bad as the guy copy pasting that green text where it starts off with 5 hour tutorial, it's not remotely that long. Do not become a brainless automaton.
>Getting triggered over anons telling the truth about TP
That game had the same problems as WW. As a matter of fact a few of those dungeons were cut WW dungeons so they follow the same dumbed down philosophy. In what way does TP have more natural paths of progression? The dungeons are linear as shit. Stop trying to turn TP into something it's not just because the dungeons looked cool to you.
Twilight Princess sucks. Worst 3D Zelda next to Skyward Sword.
I really don't like this game for some reason. I think because the wolf gimmick is so stupid and worthless.
TP is a shitty version of OOT. Only zoomers who grew up with 8.8 think it’s good. I’d even put WW over it. And that game is shite too.
TP was almost good but it still suffer from WW like empty overworld that's boring as shit, on top of the sin of having cool ass items and not really making much use of them. Way better dungeons and bosses than WW IIRC, but everything else was pretty lame
What use did you want out of the items? you do use them to collect everything in the game. I didn't come away dissatisfied.
Ok so, we have TP who actually tried to make new items
And then there basically is almost no use for them outside of dungeons and extremely rare specific instances
compared to which game though? I agree there's nothing wrong with wanting more, but it's not a fair criticism in a series where all the items have specific use cases.
Is it though? To this level?
I recall it being a massive complaints during launch that the items were practically completely useless outside of the dungeon. Zelda always has a couples of one note use items, but these were all one notes
Spinner could be used in combat, the ball 'n chain could be used in place of bombs, the bow got a zoom in attachment, the boomerang staggered enemies, the fishing pole distracted enemies, two hookshots enabled several new maneuvers, the slingshot gets replaced like it does in Ocarina of Time, there were multiple types of bombs and multiple bomb bags to carry them and all three bomb bags could be upgraded in capacity.
Like I said, I didn't come away dissatisfied.
>the only thing I can reasonably think to improve it beyond the base game (after the remaster gave players a one-button press to switch between wolf and hylian) is to allow players the opportunity to choose which of the last four dungeons they wish to do in any order,
So this is the new default zoomer opinion about how to improve any game, isn't it? Turn every game into open world.
it doesn't need to have seamless transisitions but that might help it too, sure. Zelda is already a game with a retrackable overworld. My suggestion is you choose who to travel with to their corresponding region, and on the way there's more character development given. It would simply be an improvement. You can vary the order you do the dungeons in, and there's more to appraise about the characters.
>Zelda game is excessively linear for no good reason, unlike earlier games
>Nooo, you can't allow the player to actually explore the game world themselves, that would be giving in to the zoomerinos
You only think of it as "traditional" because alttp was your first Zelda. You could argue that BotW is more traditional because you get full map access right away, or that Zelda 2 is the last traditional game because every Link after had blonde hair. It is the closest to OoT though, so it's in my top 5
it's because the first two games are outliers, moron.
>The games that spawned the franchise and established it's mechanics gameplay and aesthetic are outliers
Why are alttp troons always so obnoxious?
what did it establish that carried forward? prolly nothin
Literally everything besides the very autistically specific "do exactly 3 dungeons then do the rest"
>no the zelda I grew up with is the best: vol 32534563463
This fanbase is so boring man
>Getting triggered over anons telling the truth about TP
get out of here man, I told you I'm tired of it. if you dont want to discuss the game there's no point in being here.
you can't refute anything I said. Just because the Dungeons are big and look cool doesn't mean they aren't linear and set piece heavy. TP and WW were a step down from the N64 Zelda games in almost every way. They are both consistently ranked as one of the weaker games in the series for a reason. And at least WW has an excuse since it was unfinished.