I love both, but Splinter Cell was way more sim-like than MGS.
Though ironically one thing that annoyed me is that despite this freedom the level design of SC, at least in the first 2 games. Felt very linear most of the time. Hitman on the other hand is a pretty great stealth sandbox. But I like Splinter Cell's aesthetics and storyline more. Made me feel like James Bond. I remember in particular a train mission in either the first game or pandora tomorrow that reminded me of one of the Sean Conery films.
Splinter Cell was designed for PC, it doesn't map well to controllers.
I consider Ubisoft to be worse than EA because Ubisoft can make top tier games with great history and great gameplay, they simply choose not to
Modern day ubisoft is like if a writter like Tolkien or George RR Martin intentionally released shitty books because they know that their fans will buy in the hopes of being like their past great works
That was Ubisoft from 20+ years ago, I don't know if any of the key staff on these games from back then are even still with the company, but with the way American/Western studios churn out devs I doubt it.
Basically there's no continuity in most American studios, so think of them as completely different studios every decade.
clearly you never tried it with kbm, because it's obvious it's how it should be played
it must be insane for zoomers to comprehend that the slop factories of today were, at one time, major innovators and the bedrock of the entire industry
they were always a slop factory and behind the industry on many aspects. Buggy games were the standard for ubisoft games back then too. Obviously they produced so much shit some was bound to stick, but games like early Splinter Cell were just a fluke. It's painfully obvious to see once you try replaying some of their older games. Ubisoft got basically carried by Michel Ancel and Tom Clancy
It works so fricking well it's insane it isn't an option in other stealth games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's insanely convenient that the pod Rouge found was the one containing the actual Shadow and not a clone. As well as the one rebellious Eggman Robot.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>mfw mouse wheel control for speed movement
that shit still impresses me to this day.
The one thing that bugs me about it was diagonal walking being faster than cardinal directions, if I'm walking just under the hearing threshold and go diagonal the guards start hearing me, I wish it properly limited the speed for those movements as well. I wonder if there's like a mod or something that fixes that, I can't have been the only one bothered by that.
>It was an Xbox exclusive.
for 4 months, it's not like pc wasn't being worked on the side
also only the first one, so your argument doesn't even make any sense
3 months ago
Anonymous
>only the first one
the game-play and controls were the same for subsequent releases, so this is irrelevant.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yeah and they all play better with mkb so it's easy to see how it was first dev for pc (also very similar architecture) but probably got timed exclusive for xbox
3 months ago
Anonymous
There's nothing about the game that's any different from other third/first person shooters. You can say it plays better on M&K, sure, but the fact that it was an Xbox exclusive first proves that it wasn't "designed" for PC.
3 months ago
Anonymous
4 months exclusive is nothing how dense are you, it just means they got a deal with ms to promote their console
It was made at a time when Tom Clancy was pc first with console on the side. Again, if you played it it's painfully obvious it plays like a pc game and not console at all, shit soon you're gonna say Max Payne was a console game too
3 months ago
Anonymous
There's nothing about the game that benefits from M&K. It's a slow paced stealth game, it's not Unreal Tournament.
The only dense person here is you who thinks that because you prefer something that must mean it was designed that way.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Just compare it to how MGS at the time controlled, that's basically the standard in console controls
Once again, Splinter Cell is more akin to Max Payne than it is to MGS. Just because it's slow doesn't mean you don't need precision in movement, aiming and interactions that's you just don't have with a controller. If it were a console game initially it would have had assists for all those, just like MGS
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Just compare it to how MGS at the time controlled, that's basically the standard in console controls
Kojimagay delusion never fails to make me laugh.
3 months ago
Anonymous
was talking about console controls at the time
auto aim
no camera control
stupid menus
It's pretty obvious you've never played Splinter Cell on a controller. Your talking out of your arse.
you don't know shit about pc-console differences if you think this was made with controller in mind first
3 months ago
Anonymous
>auto ain >no camera control
Yeah, you never played SC on controller. You're an idiot.
What do guys like you get out of talking about things you know nothing about? You're a dead set moron.
3 months ago
Anonymous
frick off I was talking about mgs learn to read idiot, further proves my point sc not being a console game
3 months ago
Anonymous
>was talking about console controls at the time
This what you said. Not MGS.
You're a fricking idiot.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yeah about standard console controls from that time, which SC doesn't have idiot
3 months ago
Anonymous
Dual stick controls had been a standard for years, you fricking moron.
3 months ago
Anonymous
not at the time of release, once again how ignorant are you
mgs 3 was released after that and still had old school console controls, even gta sa came later and still had those controls but the difference is R* actually ported the game and changed it for the pc version
Tom Clancy was for pc, no matter how much you hate that doesn't change that it's a fact
3 months ago
Anonymous
Alien resurrection came out in the year 2000, zoomer.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yes, and halo came in 2001
those were fps and the very first few to try that
doesn't mean it was the standard and you'd knew if you were actually born at the time
3 months ago
Anonymous
>halo came in 2001
You're just making my argument for me, keep going.
3 months ago
Anonymous
how the frick can you not understand what a STANDARD is, just because it was made before doesn't mean that's what was most used at the time
those weren't even tps in the first place anyway - because yes there's also a difference in how fps and tps play but I'm not gonna get on that since you can't differenciate between a console tps and pc one either
and you keep telling me SC is a console game how do you want me to take you seriously
3 months ago
Anonymous
How many dual stick games would you like me to list before you accept it was already a standard by 2002 (almost 2003)?
3 months ago
Anonymous
please go ahead, I'm waiting
also if you could list all non twin stick shooters that came before 2003 for comparison that'd be great too
3 months ago
Anonymous
please go ahead, I'm waiting
also if you could list all non twin stick shooters that came before 2003 for comparison that'd be great too
suddenly I'm not hearing about you so much, shouldn't be too hard if it really was the standard
3 months ago
Anonymous
Agent Under Fire
Halo
Alien Resurrection
Unreal Championship
Max Payne
Timesplitters
Half-Life
Quake 2
Medal of Honor....
I can keep finding more, but I just know you're going to keep moving the goalposts which is why I wanted you to give me a number.
3 months ago
Anonymous
half of those are pc games and there's one single tps in that list, how am I the one moving goalposts lol
also still a minority compared to old school console tps control scheme, definitely not the standard which was my point all along
3 months ago
Anonymous
>half of those are pc games
That's not the argument, nice deflection though.
The argument is that dual stick controls were a standard before Splinter Cell 1. I just proved it. Now you want to move the goalposts, like I said.
Thanks for playing.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>ask him about tps >he replies with fps >ask him about console games >he replies with pc games
and I'm the one moving goalposts? you're definitely a special one
you'd know what you were talking about if you were actually born and playing games before early 2000 both on pc and consoles
3 months ago
Anonymous
Those games were on console, you fricking moron. That they were on PC is irrelevant.
We already established this argument is about dual stick controls with these posts:
Alien resurrection came out in the year 2000, zoomer.
yes, and halo came in 2001
those were fps and the very first few to try that
doesn't mean it was the standard and you'd knew if you were actually born at the time
Dual stick controls had been a standard for years, you fricking moron.
How many dual stick games would you like me to list before you accept it was already a standard by 2002 (almost 2003)?
You gleefully gloated a "win" when I didn't respond with a list, not realizing I baited you into making a fool of yourself. You've argued yourself into a corner and are now desperately trying to move the goalposts.
3 months ago
Anonymous
we were originally talking about SC being a pc game, (you) moved the goalpost saying it controlled like any other tps made at the time when I compared it to other console games released at the time to prove my point
also you still don't understand the difference with a game made for pc or consoles it's baffling, the list you provided just proves my point at the time console tps with modern control scheme were few (you didn't actually list a single one btw) and definitely not the STANDARD
I think you might be genuinely moronic
3 months ago
Anonymous
The only game you compared it to was MGS, which had a dated control scheme even back in 1998.
A game being made for any system is irrelevant; dual stick controls were a standard before SC1 released. This was the argument, and you were provably wrong.
The only moron here is you.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>dual stick controls were a standard before SC1 released
ok list me 10 tps console games with 2 stick scheme before 2003
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's pretty obvious you've never played Splinter Cell on a controller. Your talking out of your arse.
Iirc PS2 had a bonus mission where Sam had a white suit, otherwise I think pc version is very close.
Its a shame after CT it all went downhill(yes blacklist is shit action game)
I hope ioi deliver a good bond game that took both good part from SC and hitman
Double Agent (new gen version) is the second or third best game. I love the undercover aspect with its choices.
I don't know all the versions. I think pc is better than ps2.
It tried new things, it felt fresh. PS2 was worth playing too, but it felt like a dlc for SC2 with its dated graphics and linear environments. Only memorable thing about it is the last level.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Playing the PS2 version of console Splinter Cell titles
It was Xbox or bust. PS2 didn't even have proper co-op in Chaos Theory. It was like miniature one minute levels instead of the gigantic levels on Xbox and PC.
3 months ago
Anonymous
WRONG way around. PS2 chaos theory and double agent made by same team.
Xbox double agent was shopped out to moron asiatics.
It's unironically one of my favorites.
The soundtrack alone makes the game shine.
The undercover parts were the best part of that game.
>mfw mouse wheel control for speed movement
that shit still impresses me to this day.
It's truly a great design choice.
[...]
[...] >sc turned into ubislop >mgs turned into ubislop >thi4f
Meanwhile hitman >took absolution qol and applied the to bm tier levels >freelancer and various game modes
Kneel
I will say that Hitman's developers actually learned from Absolution and did a decent job with nu-hitman. It did already go downhill with nu-hitman 3 though.
I still think they don't do as good a job as SC does with the immersive sim design: for some reason it's much more satisfying to use Sam's 40mm tazer after turning on a sprinkler system or getting 3 guards at once in a bath house or a flooded cargo hold.
Hitman's "acquire screwdriver, expose powerstrip, activate garden hose" feels more formulaic. And I KNOW that CT obviously doesn't simulate dozens of electric circuits but it sells the illusion better.
>for some reason it's much more satisfying to use Sam's 40mm tazer after turning on a sprinkler system or getting 3 guards at once in a bath house or a flooded cargo hold.
...wait, you can do that? I know that CT allows you to do some truly ridiculous shit, but I never knew about that.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yep. Pretty fun and the game has plenty of opportunities for the water/tazer combo.
It kind of makes me yearn for a game framework that solely does shit like this: which materials are conductive, which materials bend or break or can be shot through. How much weight can they carry and so forth.
Like the TFU tech demo but on steroids. But it would have to be delivered via unreal engine or something. Modern game developers are incapable of designing systems like that.
Just imagine the possibilities in a stealth sandbox: turn off power to the entire house, cause a fire with a short and burn the wooden mansion to the ground. Plugging the drain doesn't create a canned "sink overflowing" animation but gradually fills the basement until the water reaches the lightbulb you shot out earlier. Stoves that slowly fill entire rooms with flammable gas before exploding and taking half of the building with it. npcs who notice responding to fires by grabbing fire extinguishers or garden hoses.
>Hitman's "acquire screwdriver, expose powerstrip, activate garden hose"
You can shoot the powerstrip to generate electricity dummy or throw electric equipment into water puddle
You dun fricked up. Sorry, but best double agent is actually ps2. The 'next gen' version onnxbox was outsourced to moronic asiatics who made a completely different game.
PS2 double agent. Is only double agent.
Series X has both versions of Double Agent.
Not to mention that both versions are garbage, and this narrative that the last gen version was the good version is utter bullshit.
The series peaked with Chaos Theory.
>I remember in particular a train mission in either the first game or pandora tomorrow that reminded me of one of the Sean Conery films.
It was Pandora Tomorrow. I remember it being a very easy level, because there are only so many places to hide and avoid enemies in a fricking train.
In general, PT was... weird. Some levels were great, some were pure cancer, and the rework of the AI (now they are a hivemind) can go frick a cactus.
>Comparing Kojislop garbage pacman stealth with characters sharting themselves in a bad hollywood ripoff story and 2 unsuccessful multiplayer mode attempt to the Absolute Kino Splinter Cell stealth action with fantastic open level design and using faithfully light and sound with a successful, beloved multiplayer mode and interesting spy-thriller plot
I played both games back to back and splinter cell felt very boring and outdated in comparison, I feel like when it comes to vidya outside of fps games americans should just give up
Why is it that every stealth game thread there's some idiot bringing up a cringe-ass anime conversation simulator that has some boss fights and pac-man gameplay sprinkled on top?
>sc turned into ubislop >mgs turned into ubislop >thi4f
Meanwhile hitman >took absolution qol and applied the to bm tier levels >freelancer and various game modes
Kneel
it must be insane for zoomers to comprehend that the slop factories of today were, at one time, major innovators and the bedrock of the entire industry
Not at all
When I play a good old game and see a EA/Ubisoft intro playing I'm like "huh, people saw the EA logo back in the day and were like 'hell yeah'"
nah, EA and ubishit were bad for the most part. Most of you are looking through nostalgia goggles. The reason why they seemed good is because we were kids with no critical capability or the internet to share/learn from opinions.
EA and Ubisoft owned the monopoly so they got to tell what most consumers bought andmagazines and journos used to be bad, if not worse, than current journos so their opinions were mostly biased.
I consider Ubisoft to be worse than EA because Ubisoft can make top tier games with great history and great gameplay, they simply choose not to
Modern day ubisoft is like if a writter like Tolkien or George RR Martin intentionally released shitty books because they know that their fans will buy in the hopes of being like their past great works
>I consider Ubisoft to be worse than EA because Ubisoft can make top tier games with great history and great gameplay, they simply choose not to
Very true, employees always mention that they have some good ideas and talents for the games they work on but they get discarded by the executives who have really weird choices when it comes to direction (with the classic of releasing a game when devs still haven't fixed every bugs)
Its a shame after CT it all went downhill(yes blacklist is shit action game)
I hope ioi deliver a good bond game that took both good part from SC and hitman
>Its a shame after CT it all went downhill(yes blacklist is shit action game)
THIS
Splinter Cell ended after the third one, everything else is Disneywars tier garbage, moronic fanfiction made by hacks
It really wasn't that bad. The story was stupid. They wanted to do more of the "social stealth" thing that was tested in AC1 and then discarded for whatever historically-themed skinner boxes that shit turned into.
so dishonored? already done. Could make a modern day one but its silly. Night vision + breaching in two directions is all that is.
Already done in ready or not
modern gadgets aren't cool. Go lurk /k/. Its all shitty grenade drones and the pinnacle of special ops is expensive night vision and whatever infrared laser is brightest so you don't actually have to aim down sights.
that's what I want to do, I like its design of "hardcore" both in stealth and combat.
something funny abot the clip you posted is that I made it, glad to see it posted
More stealth kills and environmental kills to get past difficult enemies, not mind bending puzzles but simple ones that you can figure out through clues in the room.
by more stealth kills you mean more silent weapons? or gadgets?
I'd love to see some actual consequences of letting your presence be known, but not necessarily detected.
Like if you distract enemies, leave obvious clues, take out enemies who report in with radios etc. it's not just a case of "hmmm, must have been rats", but they actually buff up security, change patrol routes, react to men not reporting in.
One thing I remember from Chaos Theory was how you could knock out enemies, hear HQ call them on the radio, clearly hear they demanded them to report back, but nothing ever came of it.
ideally they would have different levels of suspicion, the first one would be for them to be more alert of their surroundings >HQ call them on the radio, clearly hear they demanded them to report back, but nothing ever came of it
balance is always needed in a stealth game to not make them too niche and keep them accesible, if possible I wish to achieve deep customizable setting to please the most casual player to the most hardcore "I want the most realist game" guy
I'd love to see some actual consequences of letting your presence be known, but not necessarily detected.
Like if you distract enemies, leave obvious clues, take out enemies who report in with radios etc. it's not just a case of "hmmm, must have been rats", but they actually buff up security, change patrol routes, react to men not reporting in.
One thing I remember from Chaos Theory was how you could knock out enemies, hear HQ call them on the radio, clearly hear they demanded them to report back, but nothing ever came of it.
Didn't Hitman: Blood Money try to play around with this shit?
I remember shit like stealing footage from cameras if you fricked up your stealth and whatnot.
All the Hitman games from BM and onwards have it.
They also have a pretty good alert system in general, but it's usually over in a minute or two and then everything is back to normal.
by more stealth kills you mean more silent weapons? or gadgets?
[...]
ideally they would have different levels of suspicion, the first one would be for them to be more alert of their surroundings >HQ call them on the radio, clearly hear they demanded them to report back, but nothing ever came of it
balance is always needed in a stealth game to not make them too niche and keep them accesible, if possible I wish to achieve deep customizable setting to please the most casual player to the most hardcore "I want the most realist game" guy
>balance is always needed in a stealth game
I know. I'd just like to see a game that actually tried it out for once.
>I'd just like to see a game that actually tried it out for once.
Intravenous tried it, even if sometimes it's a bit gamey the guards can recognize when a door is opened/closed or when a light is on/off when it should be, investigate where a projectile is being thrown if they see its trajectory, notice missing patrols (only in the 2nd game) etc
Enemies in vidya can usually detect you through sight, touch and hearing, so why not give them the ability to smell? They could find hidden corpses that are close to them because of the stench of blood or detect you because you were hiding in a dumpster full of trash. The smell would linger longer in enclosed spaces.
Smell is a tough sense to transcribe, and it would feel unfair for most people and only would be picked by a few people which would make it a useless feature to work on
This was back when Ubisoft was a name of quality. Looking back between 2003-2007, Ubisoft were shitting out banger after banger. It's unreal how like 20% of my game library was published by them at one point. Now I don't own a single Ubisoft game.
Reminder that the only thing sparing Splinter Cell from Ubisoft's modern frickery is quite literally that they don't know how to turn it into generic open world slop with Ubi-towers revealing locations, nor do they know how to monetize it. Spook gear is inherently more limiting than generic soldier tacticool gear.
Until you realize 90% of encounters is just tagging every enemy from afar and then sniping them with zero risk to yourself. >bro you don't have to play like that, it's your own fault!
It's objectively the most efficient way of dealing with the vast majority of the game. I'm not going to actively gimp myself, especially when I'm supposed to be a tacticool operator instead of magic anime swordsman.
Played Breakpoint with a friend who always wanted to just sit his ass on a hill and silent snipe the people from afar
I mean it's cool to sync up kills with your friend but holy frick man, I bought a goddamn assault chopper and I'm gonna drop rockets on those buttholes
or sometimes i just want some CBQ stealth where i use my knife and pistol instead
camping on a hill is boring after you do it for the 300th outpost
Breakpoint at least tried to make other playstyles into somewhat appealing alternatives. Sniping is still clearly the way to go. Also the game in general is a downgrade from Wildlands, which wasn't exactly a masterpiece either.
funniest thing is that they're all in in open worlds and multiplayer only games, yet we haven't seen a Spy vs Mercs only game that is live service with new maps and cosmetic every now and then
you just have to get used to it. I prefer FPS games on controller / console now just because the trigger pull and vibration feels good. I know its inaccurate
>I prefer FPS games on controller / console
"I like it when the game aims for me"
I can't get used to the bullshit of having to basically clamp my fingers on the joystick so i don't make noise.
On pc, I just scroll down on the mousewheel and it works like a frickin charm.
During that generation Ubisoft was a name with some actual respect. Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Beyond Good and Evil, Prince of Persia, Rayman 3. Sure they still published a shit ton of garbage too but when you see a Ubisoft logo plastered on the development side there was actually a relatively decent chance that the game would be good.
Still made some garbage though even back then but win some lose some.
>AC1 and 2 were quite good
No they were not and they are the reason why Splinter Cell became shit and why so many games adopted bamham combat.
AC is the most zoomie and normie trash since day 1
>in Chaos Theory, The SC-20K can be configured with 4 different attachments. Foregrip, Launcher, Shotgun and Sniper. The sniper attachment is capable of penetrating through some materials. Some thinner materials such as certain doors can be shot through.
What the frick? ive played the game twice and i have never notice this. how do you modify that?
okay now I know you're just pretending to be clueless because there's no way someone with the mental capacity to use google would spout the moronic shit you're saying.
What part of my statement confused you, brainlet?
There IS no guarantee that older games work on newer hardware. Developers are not time travelers. This has been the case forever. How dumb are you?
3 months ago
Anonymous
anon stop pretending to be moronic. roleplaying is against the rules
3 months ago
Anonymous
You haven't provided a single counter argument.
I'll happily accept your concession if you can't provide one.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>give me a counter-argument to my ironic shitposting
3 months ago
Anonymous
What is "ironic shitposting" about the statement that old games aren't guaranteed to run on new hardware?
You aren't the brightest bulb in the shed, are you?
Lets be real, Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon; all amazing games. But that type of Tom Clancy CIA spook espionage shit only plays in the 00's when everyone was more naive about the world.
SC versus mode was some future tier shit back then. Similarly to how there's only a few big sites where most of the activity happens on the net, now there's only a relatively small amount of multiplayer games that hoards the attention of most people.
What I'm getting at is back then it felt like bigger studios were willing to take some risks. SCCT versus was buggy, not easy to learn, hard to balance and kind of a niche in gameplay, but it was simply unique. Nowadays a multiplayer game is either a fortnite or dayz clone. There are indie games willing to experiment, but it seems extremely hard to grow and maintain a healthy playerbase. The closest thing I've felt to versus was Intruder, but that game feels dead.
>poor man's Metal Gear
>poor man's Thief
>Mogs movie gear on every aspect
I love both, but Splinter Cell was way more sim-like than MGS.
Though ironically one thing that annoyed me is that despite this freedom the level design of SC, at least in the first 2 games. Felt very linear most of the time. Hitman on the other hand is a pretty great stealth sandbox. But I like Splinter Cell's aesthetics and storyline more. Made me feel like James Bond. I remember in particular a train mission in either the first game or pandora tomorrow that reminded me of one of the Sean Conery films.
I've been playing the 4k upscaled OG splinter cell xbox copies on Series X and the controls filter me hard
Try it on pc with kbm
Splinter Cell was designed for PC, it doesn't map well to controllers.
That was Ubisoft from 20+ years ago, I don't know if any of the key staff on these games from back then are even still with the company, but with the way American/Western studios churn out devs I doubt it.
Basically there's no continuity in most American studios, so think of them as completely different studios every decade.
>Splinter Cell was designed for PC, it doesn't map well to controllers.
moron
Xbox was the beta
Try not jerking off so much. Maybe you'll have functional motor controls then.
clearly you never tried it with kbm, because it's obvious it's how it should be played
they were always a slop factory and behind the industry on many aspects. Buggy games were the standard for ubisoft games back then too. Obviously they produced so much shit some was bound to stick, but games like early Splinter Cell were just a fluke. It's painfully obvious to see once you try replaying some of their older games. Ubisoft got basically carried by Michel Ancel and Tom Clancy
>mfw mouse wheel control for speed movement
that shit still impresses me to this day.
It works so fricking well it's insane it isn't an option in other stealth games.
It's insanely convenient that the pod Rouge found was the one containing the actual Shadow and not a clone. As well as the one rebellious Eggman Robot.
theres intravenous
kino
The one thing that bugs me about it was diagonal walking being faster than cardinal directions, if I'm walking just under the hearing threshold and go diagonal the guards start hearing me, I wish it properly limited the speed for those movements as well. I wonder if there's like a mod or something that fixes that, I can't have been the only one bothered by that.
>Splinter Cell was designed for PC
Literally the opposite. It was an Xbox exclusive.
>It was an Xbox exclusive.
for 4 months, it's not like pc wasn't being worked on the side
also only the first one, so your argument doesn't even make any sense
>only the first one
the game-play and controls were the same for subsequent releases, so this is irrelevant.
yeah and they all play better with mkb so it's easy to see how it was first dev for pc (also very similar architecture) but probably got timed exclusive for xbox
There's nothing about the game that's any different from other third/first person shooters. You can say it plays better on M&K, sure, but the fact that it was an Xbox exclusive first proves that it wasn't "designed" for PC.
4 months exclusive is nothing how dense are you, it just means they got a deal with ms to promote their console
It was made at a time when Tom Clancy was pc first with console on the side. Again, if you played it it's painfully obvious it plays like a pc game and not console at all, shit soon you're gonna say Max Payne was a console game too
There's nothing about the game that benefits from M&K. It's a slow paced stealth game, it's not Unreal Tournament.
The only dense person here is you who thinks that because you prefer something that must mean it was designed that way.
Just compare it to how MGS at the time controlled, that's basically the standard in console controls
Once again, Splinter Cell is more akin to Max Payne than it is to MGS. Just because it's slow doesn't mean you don't need precision in movement, aiming and interactions that's you just don't have with a controller. If it were a console game initially it would have had assists for all those, just like MGS
>Just compare it to how MGS at the time controlled, that's basically the standard in console controls
Kojimagay delusion never fails to make me laugh.
was talking about console controls at the time
auto aim
no camera control
stupid menus
you don't know shit about pc-console differences if you think this was made with controller in mind first
>auto ain
>no camera control
Yeah, you never played SC on controller. You're an idiot.
What do guys like you get out of talking about things you know nothing about? You're a dead set moron.
frick off I was talking about mgs learn to read idiot, further proves my point sc not being a console game
>was talking about console controls at the time
This what you said. Not MGS.
You're a fricking idiot.
yeah about standard console controls from that time, which SC doesn't have idiot
Dual stick controls had been a standard for years, you fricking moron.
not at the time of release, once again how ignorant are you
mgs 3 was released after that and still had old school console controls, even gta sa came later and still had those controls but the difference is R* actually ported the game and changed it for the pc version
Tom Clancy was for pc, no matter how much you hate that doesn't change that it's a fact
Alien resurrection came out in the year 2000, zoomer.
yes, and halo came in 2001
those were fps and the very first few to try that
doesn't mean it was the standard and you'd knew if you were actually born at the time
>halo came in 2001
You're just making my argument for me, keep going.
how the frick can you not understand what a STANDARD is, just because it was made before doesn't mean that's what was most used at the time
those weren't even tps in the first place anyway - because yes there's also a difference in how fps and tps play but I'm not gonna get on that since you can't differenciate between a console tps and pc one either
and you keep telling me SC is a console game how do you want me to take you seriously
How many dual stick games would you like me to list before you accept it was already a standard by 2002 (almost 2003)?
please go ahead, I'm waiting
also if you could list all non twin stick shooters that came before 2003 for comparison that'd be great too
suddenly I'm not hearing about you so much, shouldn't be too hard if it really was the standard
Agent Under Fire
Halo
Alien Resurrection
Unreal Championship
Max Payne
Timesplitters
Half-Life
Quake 2
Medal of Honor....
I can keep finding more, but I just know you're going to keep moving the goalposts which is why I wanted you to give me a number.
half of those are pc games and there's one single tps in that list, how am I the one moving goalposts lol
also still a minority compared to old school console tps control scheme, definitely not the standard which was my point all along
>half of those are pc games
That's not the argument, nice deflection though.
The argument is that dual stick controls were a standard before Splinter Cell 1. I just proved it. Now you want to move the goalposts, like I said.
Thanks for playing.
>ask him about tps
>he replies with fps
>ask him about console games
>he replies with pc games
and I'm the one moving goalposts? you're definitely a special one
you'd know what you were talking about if you were actually born and playing games before early 2000 both on pc and consoles
Those games were on console, you fricking moron. That they were on PC is irrelevant.
We already established this argument is about dual stick controls with these posts:
You gleefully gloated a "win" when I didn't respond with a list, not realizing I baited you into making a fool of yourself. You've argued yourself into a corner and are now desperately trying to move the goalposts.
we were originally talking about SC being a pc game, (you) moved the goalpost saying it controlled like any other tps made at the time when I compared it to other console games released at the time to prove my point
also you still don't understand the difference with a game made for pc or consoles it's baffling, the list you provided just proves my point at the time console tps with modern control scheme were few (you didn't actually list a single one btw) and definitely not the STANDARD
I think you might be genuinely moronic
The only game you compared it to was MGS, which had a dated control scheme even back in 1998.
A game being made for any system is irrelevant; dual stick controls were a standard before SC1 released. This was the argument, and you were provably wrong.
The only moron here is you.
>dual stick controls were a standard before SC1 released
ok list me 10 tps console games with 2 stick scheme before 2003
It's pretty obvious you've never played Splinter Cell on a controller. Your talking out of your arse.
Iirc PS2 had a bonus mission where Sam had a white suit, otherwise I think pc version is very close.
Double Agent (new gen version) is the second or third best game. I love the undercover aspect with its choices.
you saying the 360 / ps3 double agent is better than OG xbox?
I don't know all the versions. I think pc is better than ps2.
It tried new things, it felt fresh. PS2 was worth playing too, but it felt like a dlc for SC2 with its dated graphics and linear environments. Only memorable thing about it is the last level.
>Playing the PS2 version of console Splinter Cell titles
It was Xbox or bust. PS2 didn't even have proper co-op in Chaos Theory. It was like miniature one minute levels instead of the gigantic levels on Xbox and PC.
WRONG way around. PS2 chaos theory and double agent made by same team.
Xbox double agent was shopped out to moron asiatics.
This game sucks in every way imaginable. No way, dude. No way.
It's unironically one of my favorites.
The soundtrack alone makes the game shine.
The undercover parts were the best part of that game.
It's truly a great design choice.
I will say that Hitman's developers actually learned from Absolution and did a decent job with nu-hitman. It did already go downhill with nu-hitman 3 though.
I still think they don't do as good a job as SC does with the immersive sim design: for some reason it's much more satisfying to use Sam's 40mm tazer after turning on a sprinkler system or getting 3 guards at once in a bath house or a flooded cargo hold.
Hitman's "acquire screwdriver, expose powerstrip, activate garden hose" feels more formulaic. And I KNOW that CT obviously doesn't simulate dozens of electric circuits but it sells the illusion better.
>for some reason it's much more satisfying to use Sam's 40mm tazer after turning on a sprinkler system or getting 3 guards at once in a bath house or a flooded cargo hold.
...wait, you can do that? I know that CT allows you to do some truly ridiculous shit, but I never knew about that.
Yep. Pretty fun and the game has plenty of opportunities for the water/tazer combo.
It kind of makes me yearn for a game framework that solely does shit like this: which materials are conductive, which materials bend or break or can be shot through. How much weight can they carry and so forth.
Like the TFU tech demo but on steroids. But it would have to be delivered via unreal engine or something. Modern game developers are incapable of designing systems like that.
Just imagine the possibilities in a stealth sandbox: turn off power to the entire house, cause a fire with a short and burn the wooden mansion to the ground. Plugging the drain doesn't create a canned "sink overflowing" animation but gradually fills the basement until the water reaches the lightbulb you shot out earlier. Stoves that slowly fill entire rooms with flammable gas before exploding and taking half of the building with it. npcs who notice responding to fires by grabbing fire extinguishers or garden hoses.
Just imagine the possibilities.
>Hitman's "acquire screwdriver, expose powerstrip, activate garden hose"
You can shoot the powerstrip to generate electricity dummy or throw electric equipment into water puddle
You dun fricked up. Sorry, but best double agent is actually ps2. The 'next gen' version onnxbox was outsourced to moronic asiatics who made a completely different game.
PS2 double agent. Is only double agent.
Series X has both versions of Double Agent.
Not to mention that both versions are garbage, and this narrative that the last gen version was the good version is utter bullshit.
The series peaked with Chaos Theory.
Only ever played the nextgen version and I suffered complete cognitive dissonance when 5 came out.
Like I had no fricking clue how the story ended up like this.
Personally my biggest gripe in DA was the lighting. Plus the upgrade system was broken and I couldn't use many of the unlocked items.
>Plus the upgrade system was broken and I couldn't use many of the unlocked items.
PC version? In that game, fricking everything was broken.
>I remember in particular a train mission in either the first game or pandora tomorrow that reminded me of one of the Sean Conery films.
It was Pandora Tomorrow. I remember it being a very easy level, because there are only so many places to hide and avoid enemies in a fricking train.
In general, PT was... weird. Some levels were great, some were pure cancer, and the rework of the AI (now they are a hivemind) can go frick a cactus.
>Comparing Kojislop garbage pacman stealth with characters sharting themselves in a bad hollywood ripoff story and 2 unsuccessful multiplayer mode attempt to the Absolute Kino Splinter Cell stealth action with fantastic open level design and using faithfully light and sound with a successful, beloved multiplayer mode and interesting spy-thriller plot
I played both games back to back and splinter cell felt very boring and outdated in comparison, I feel like when it comes to vidya outside of fps games americans should just give up
The third world can't meme. Go back to making moronic shit, atleast it's funny. don't try to be serious. plz
Sorry buddy, I don’t want pac man with vampires and psychics. I want a grounded military special ops campaign, which is what I got.
You sound really gay, bro.
Yea, Ubisoft made a lot of kino in its heyday. Same with EA and other major publishers. We didn't know how good we had it.
Frick off Kojima.
Gr8 b8 m8
Why is it that every stealth game thread there's some idiot bringing up a cringe-ass anime conversation simulator that has some boss fights and pac-man gameplay sprinkled on top?
MGS autists don't play games outside of their niche. They never played Splinter Cell and have no idea what they were missing.
I will take defense for my Sambros since even them know how horrible Snake's treatment from Kojimbo was
>sc turned into ubislop
>mgs turned into ubislop
>thi4f
Meanwhile hitman
>took absolution qol and applied the to bm tier levels
>freelancer and various game modes
Kneel
Explain how Freelancer is not slop for clowns.
>oeslb
?
ESL try again in English.
not him but I just bought H3 on sale, and even if roguelikes aren't my thing the mode seems decent, everyone seem to like it
It was the perfect way to spice up the game. Literally 100's of hours worth of extra content if you're autistic enough to grind all the achievements.
Both series are good in their own respective ways.
it must be insane for zoomers to comprehend that the slop factories of today were, at one time, major innovators and the bedrock of the entire industry
It's harder to remember, like when the blizzard logo actually meant something
Not at all
When I play a good old game and see a EA/Ubisoft intro playing I'm like "huh, people saw the EA logo back in the day and were like 'hell yeah'"
Man seeing the very old Ubisoft logo when booting up PoP Sands of Time and Rainbow Six Vegas 2 felt like a hit of nostalgia
I'm a zoomer and I grew up with the PS2, I know what Ubisoft and EA used to be before they went full soulless and pozzed.
*whispers*
Challenge everything.
*BZZT*
nah, EA and ubishit were bad for the most part. Most of you are looking through nostalgia goggles. The reason why they seemed good is because we were kids with no critical capability or the internet to share/learn from opinions.
EA and Ubisoft owned the monopoly so they got to tell what most consumers bought andmagazines and journos used to be bad, if not worse, than current journos so their opinions were mostly biased.
EA was always hated.
Ubisoft had something good going on for them at some point, ~1999-2006 or so.
>EA was always hated.
This is zoomer history revisionism. Not true. moron.
I consider Ubisoft to be worse than EA because Ubisoft can make top tier games with great history and great gameplay, they simply choose not to
Modern day ubisoft is like if a writter like Tolkien or George RR Martin intentionally released shitty books because they know that their fans will buy in the hopes of being like their past great works
>I consider Ubisoft to be worse than EA because Ubisoft can make top tier games with great history and great gameplay, they simply choose not to
Very true, employees always mention that they have some good ideas and talents for the games they work on but they get discarded by the executives who have really weird choices when it comes to direction (with the classic of releasing a game when devs still haven't fixed every bugs)
Even if you look at recent games concept art you see so many good ideas only to be discarded in actual game
do you have any exemple? I just remember about the conviction prototype
I sometimes forget Ubisoft rebooted Prince of Persia and we got a phenomenal trilogy out of it.
Its a shame after CT it all went downhill(yes blacklist is shit action game)
I hope ioi deliver a good bond game that took both good part from SC and hitman
>Its a shame after CT it all went downhill(yes blacklist is shit action game)
THIS
Splinter Cell ended after the third one, everything else is Disneywars tier garbage, moronic fanfiction made by hacks
It really wasn't that bad. The story was stupid. They wanted to do more of the "social stealth" thing that was tested in AC1 and then discarded for whatever historically-themed skinner boxes that shit turned into.
>It really wasn't that bad
Only if you played the good version. Most people didn't.
Sick of this meme. Old gen version was just as bad. It was a butchered Chaos Theory mod with worse mechanics and worse graphics.
They used to be Ubisoul, as hard as it may be to believe
Let's say I wanted to make a FPS but Splinter Cell, what would you like to see/not see in it?
so dishonored? already done. Could make a modern day one but its silly. Night vision + breaching in two directions is all that is.
Already done in ready or not
Why would it be silly in modern day? It would be like Thief but with modern gadgets at the end
modern gadgets aren't cool. Go lurk /k/. Its all shitty grenade drones and the pinnacle of special ops is expensive night vision and whatever infrared laser is brightest so you don't actually have to aim down sights.
Thats a formula for a boring ass game
Just make Intravenous, but in 3D.
that's what I want to do, I like its design of "hardcore" both in stealth and combat.
something funny abot the clip you posted is that I made it, glad to see it posted
More stealth kills and environmental kills to get past difficult enemies, not mind bending puzzles but simple ones that you can figure out through clues in the room.
by more stealth kills you mean more silent weapons? or gadgets?
ideally they would have different levels of suspicion, the first one would be for them to be more alert of their surroundings
>HQ call them on the radio, clearly hear they demanded them to report back, but nothing ever came of it
balance is always needed in a stealth game to not make them too niche and keep them accesible, if possible I wish to achieve deep customizable setting to please the most casual player to the most hardcore "I want the most realist game" guy
More of both and make them actual obstacles that you HAVE to stealth kill. Fun toys was the reason the PS2 James Bond games were fun.
I'd love to see some actual consequences of letting your presence be known, but not necessarily detected.
Like if you distract enemies, leave obvious clues, take out enemies who report in with radios etc. it's not just a case of "hmmm, must have been rats", but they actually buff up security, change patrol routes, react to men not reporting in.
One thing I remember from Chaos Theory was how you could knock out enemies, hear HQ call them on the radio, clearly hear they demanded them to report back, but nothing ever came of it.
Didn't Hitman: Blood Money try to play around with this shit?
I remember shit like stealing footage from cameras if you fricked up your stealth and whatnot.
All the Hitman games from BM and onwards have it.
They also have a pretty good alert system in general, but it's usually over in a minute or two and then everything is back to normal.
>balance is always needed in a stealth game
I know. I'd just like to see a game that actually tried it out for once.
>I'd just like to see a game that actually tried it out for once.
Intravenous tried it, even if sometimes it's a bit gamey the guards can recognize when a door is opened/closed or when a light is on/off when it should be, investigate where a projectile is being thrown if they see its trajectory, notice missing patrols (only in the 2nd game) etc
Enemies in vidya can usually detect you through sight, touch and hearing, so why not give them the ability to smell? They could find hidden corpses that are close to them because of the stench of blood or detect you because you were hiding in a dumpster full of trash. The smell would linger longer in enclosed spaces.
Smell is a tough sense to transcribe, and it would feel unfair for most people and only would be picked by a few people which would make it a useless feature to work on
I loved the splinter cell asymmetrical pvp multiplayer mode
This was back when Ubisoft was a name of quality. Looking back between 2003-2007, Ubisoft were shitting out banger after banger. It's unreal how like 20% of my game library was published by them at one point. Now I don't own a single Ubisoft game.
Reminder that the only thing sparing Splinter Cell from Ubisoft's modern frickery is quite literally that they don't know how to turn it into generic open world slop with Ubi-towers revealing locations, nor do they know how to monetize it. Spook gear is inherently more limiting than generic soldier tacticool gear.
and thank frick for that. last two games already too heavily hybridized into action.
ghost recon in mexico cartel land was pretty fun though
Until you realize 90% of encounters is just tagging every enemy from afar and then sniping them with zero risk to yourself.
>bro you don't have to play like that, it's your own fault!
It's objectively the most efficient way of dealing with the vast majority of the game. I'm not going to actively gimp myself, especially when I'm supposed to be a tacticool operator instead of magic anime swordsman.
Played Breakpoint with a friend who always wanted to just sit his ass on a hill and silent snipe the people from afar
I mean it's cool to sync up kills with your friend but holy frick man, I bought a goddamn assault chopper and I'm gonna drop rockets on those buttholes
or sometimes i just want some CBQ stealth where i use my knife and pistol instead
camping on a hill is boring after you do it for the 300th outpost
Breakpoint at least tried to make other playstyles into somewhat appealing alternatives. Sniping is still clearly the way to go. Also the game in general is a downgrade from Wildlands, which wasn't exactly a masterpiece either.
The only fun thing I really liked about Breakpoint were behemoth fights
me and my friend had a blast fighting these massive robots.
still pretty fun though. And dopamine raiding the bases and collecting all the attachments and whatnot
playing the most efficient way is boring in every single game
funniest thing is that they're all in in open worlds and multiplayer only games, yet we haven't seen a Spy vs Mercs only game that is live service with new maps and cosmetic every now and then
Double Agent is bugged on PC and the Xbox version controls like shit, it's the only SC game i've never completed
Xbox 360 or og Xbox? Two different versions and the OG is way better
OG Xbox
The 360 version is the same as the PC one
probably not bugged though
I just hate joystick movement, clunky as shit
you just have to get used to it. I prefer FPS games on controller / console now just because the trigger pull and vibration feels good. I know its inaccurate
>I prefer FPS games on controller / console
"I like it when the game aims for me"
I can't get used to the bullshit of having to basically clamp my fingers on the joystick so i don't make noise.
On pc, I just scroll down on the mousewheel and it works like a frickin charm.
for stealth games yeah. Even on PC though if you aren't using a controller for cawadooty you are handicapping yourself. Sad state but it is what it is
I hope ioi's 007 bring back these cool stealth genre even though i know they will still add online only and useless dlcs
>Ubislop made this damm
Ubisoft were god tier developers before 7th gen.
Frick, in the late 90's/early 2000's Microsoft were god tier.
During that generation Ubisoft was a name with some actual respect. Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Beyond Good and Evil, Prince of Persia, Rayman 3. Sure they still published a shit ton of garbage too but when you see a Ubisoft logo plastered on the development side there was actually a relatively decent chance that the game would be good.
Still made some garbage though even back then but win some lose some.
best Amon Tobin album coming through
Does he still make music? Bank and Battery have to be my favorite songs he made
Permutation is the best IMO, but that one's pretty good
He's still working, just on more ambient/experimental tracks
>Here's your MGS/Splinter Cell mashup bro
Yeah Ubisoft was pretty kino before Assassin's Creed happened.
AC1 and 2 were quite good. You're too young to know, zoombrain.
>Thinks AC is good
>Calls others zoomer
You cumstains are hilarious.
I merely think you have brain damage.
AC 3 was the downfall for Ubislop.
>AC1 and 2 were quite good
No they were not and they are the reason why Splinter Cell became shit and why so many games adopted bamham combat.
AC is the most zoomie and normie trash since day 1
>ass creed gay
>speaks about zoombrain when ass creed in a definition of slop
>is unironically nostalgic for 7th gen crap
My fricking sides
Assassins Creed 1/2 was basically an evolution of Prince of Persia. You can see that handwriting all over those games.
It just dissolved into the slop we know as Ass Creed over the years.
>Prince of slop
?
>in Chaos Theory, The SC-20K can be configured with 4 different attachments. Foregrip, Launcher, Shotgun and Sniper. The sniper attachment is capable of penetrating through some materials. Some thinner materials such as certain doors can be shot through.
What the frick? ive played the game twice and i have never notice this. how do you modify that?
>doesn't run on Steam Deck
Incompetent as ever Ubisoft
>why doesn't this 20 year old game run on my new hardware?
moron alert
You're the real moron since you don't know that games much earlier than Chaos Theory run on the Steam Deck.
Yeah and there's no guarantee that anything older than the Steam Deck can run on it. Ubisoft are not time travelers, moron homosexual.
okay now I know you're just pretending to be clueless because there's no way someone with the mental capacity to use google would spout the moronic shit you're saying.
What part of my statement confused you, brainlet?
There IS no guarantee that older games work on newer hardware. Developers are not time travelers. This has been the case forever. How dumb are you?
anon stop pretending to be moronic. roleplaying is against the rules
You haven't provided a single counter argument.
I'll happily accept your concession if you can't provide one.
>give me a counter-argument to my ironic shitposting
What is "ironic shitposting" about the statement that old games aren't guaranteed to run on new hardware?
You aren't the brightest bulb in the shed, are you?
That was a different Ubisoft back then.
You think someone would be willing to unfrick the PC version of Double Agent at some point?
God, that was a miserable experience.
>they also made the driver games that are really fun
what the frick happened to ubisoft?
Driver San Fransisco is as good as 1 and 2, zoom zoom.
Can you even read?
never played dom glancy b4, is this one the best one to start with?
I guess. It's the most "accessible". But the OG Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six (third one in particular) are godlike as well, but way more autistic.
i spent months of my life playing r6 vegas 2 back in the day so ill check out 3
Good luck? If you manage not to get filter by the mission planning stage, you are golden.
That's why I think Ghost Recon is superior to R6.
>slop
Is that why Russian an Chinse communists hate ubisoft so much?
Lets be real, Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon; all amazing games. But that type of Tom Clancy CIA spook espionage shit only plays in the 00's when everyone was more naive about the world.
SC versus mode was some future tier shit back then. Similarly to how there's only a few big sites where most of the activity happens on the net, now there's only a relatively small amount of multiplayer games that hoards the attention of most people.
What I'm getting at is back then it felt like bigger studios were willing to take some risks. SCCT versus was buggy, not easy to learn, hard to balance and kind of a niche in gameplay, but it was simply unique. Nowadays a multiplayer game is either a fortnite or dayz clone. There are indie games willing to experiment, but it seems extremely hard to grow and maintain a healthy playerbase. The closest thing I've felt to versus was Intruder, but that game feels dead.