>Unity and Unreal both written in C++
Its fricking over the game industry.
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>Unity and Unreal both written in C++
>Unity and Unreal both written in C++
Its fricking over the game industry.
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unless it’s a law, you don’t have to listen to them
you don't need to listen to them either way
I hate how C is always put on the same level as C++
C is fricking garbage
You can make a videogame in C++ easily, meanwhile it is a pain in the ass to even write a commandline calculator in C
>it is a pain in the ass to even write a commandline calculator in C
Spoken like a true jeet.
>dude you should fricking manually manage /0 ended char arrays
Or I can use std::string as a zero cost abstraction, lose no performance and gain back my sanity
>zero cost abstraction
No such thing no matter how much C++ and Rust shills pretend it's the case.
the majority of ps1 and N64 games were written in C.
i disagree, writing in C++ is easier (because of many quality of life improvements over C), but C is not that bad.
Big problem with C, is that their abstractions are kind of shit.
You only need abstraction if you're moronic
>abstractions are shit
Yeah, that’s the biggest problem with C over C++. You have to constantly reinvent the wheel
>meanwhile it is a pain in the ass to even write a commandline calculator in C
the frick?
Compared to Python, C# or even C++? Yes
not at all you moronic codelet
you're going to write command line programs in C# and Python?
>you're going to write command line programs in C# and Python?
I have literally never written a gui python program
I want to murder every "modern" C++ programmer that completely destroyed the potential of the "C2.0" effort of the language by infecting it with a million completely unnecessary ideas like OOP
There are a ton of useful features in c++ but 90% of the shit other people use are a waste of time and serve no purpose but to obfuscate a program
>oop le bad
t. never made a real program
bro you don't understand if you can't read my assembly code and immediately know what it does you're moronic
>inb4 this but unironically
pajeet please
You cant even make a unit test in C
Get a job and we can talk
And you cant make a single argument, or write a post longer than a paragraph describing as to WHY you think that is
>You cant even make a unit test in C
Damn now I really know you never worked on a C or C++ project larger than a hello-world.
https://libcheck.github.io/check/
https://aceunit.sourceforge.net/
http://autounit.tigris.org/
https://cunit.sourceforge.net/
https://cutest.sourceforge.net/
https://cppunit.sourceforge.net/doc/cvs/index.html
https://sourceforge.net/projects/embunit/
https://github.com/catchorg/Catch2
https://google.github.io/googletest/primer.html
Stop teaching kids data is a bunch of animals so you can put them to work on your garbage low effort software as quick as possible
Inheritance and OOP was a complete waste of time for everyone, especially to the programmers themselves and their customers (OOP is not efficient, nor safe, for all the safety gays out there)
0 proof has been given as to what makes OOP so much more better than other programming paradigms, you were just taught in it by default because java boomers at one time in history thought it was the "future of programming" when all it was was just a fad that made management think it would improve code readability somehow, because they thought it was very clever how you could explain software with fricking ANIMALS AND CARS
A code that only you can read is not maintainable, therefore is bad code. Oop is good for component architecture and code abstraction.
>A code that only you can read is not maintainable
code that only you can read is job security
you'll learn, soon enough
OOP is not easy to read, even John Carmack thinks so
You shouldnt have to read a fricking graph with millions of objects and their relations to each other to understand a single function
You shouldnt have to jump through a million hoops even to find the function you were looking for
Nobody has ever given a reason as to what is it that makes OOP so much better than the alternatives, but its always stated as a fact anyway
The alternatives for OOP are not automatically "not maintainable" just because it was not done in an object oriented fashion
>OOP is easy to read
>setup debugger
>try to step through code
>first step one layer of indirection into another layer of indirection into library code into five other abstractions
Yeah real readable code there when you try to figure out what it actually does on the computer instead of in some abstract theory.
>NOOOOOO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CPU GATES ARE DOING THIS IS BULLSHIT
Kek, go solder a breadboard, moron.
>nooo you can't just look at what the code is actually doing that's cheating you have to read the 1151 pages of C++ specification to understand why i'm doing all this moronic abstraction shit in lieu of making the machine do real work
Go choke on the wiener of the white guy having to clean-up the code of your team of 100 pajeets.
If you unironically think this you have NEVER implemented someone elses library or maintained code
Shut the frick up, you have never worked as a professional programmer
i bet your favourite game from childhood was written in C
that's where you're wrong Black personhomosexual
Thief: The Dark Project was written in C++ because LGS weren't morons.
Also they were white
The most Indian post I've seen in a while.
pajeet fears ; and {}
>c/c++
this is a nonexistent language
modern c++ is memory-safe. c is not, but Zig exists to replace it.
When white house demands it, its compelled and thus a law.
Its more of a guideline that requires voluntary compliance. At most they won't hire you. Its funny though that they cite mem access vulnerabilities when everything they touch has a backdoor. Also those vulnerabilities are based on the programmer(s), which in their words amusingly implies that they are not hiring talent.
Voluntary compliance with the threat of violence. There is no such thing as voluntary with government. Its all compelled. Voluntary exercises only exists between parties that are not held hostage
Nah Covid jabs proved its voluntary. They will fry the pan for sure, but if the oil spills out and burns, then you have a shitty time gov or no. Whats it going to do? Divert soldiers and money away from Ukraine? oh no think of the inhumanity! Seriously though lol
>government fires you
>government stops you from travelling
>government forces shutdown of schools/local stores/churches/etc
>government uses police force to enforce it
These aren't voluntary
you underage gays and complete lack of basic civics knowledge are what's killing this country
even when they do
it's a democracy, I do not have to fulfil the fantasies of a dying out of touch boomer who doesn't know what he's talking about
I guess the diversity hires can't handle memory
Its about CIA backdoors. If users are managing their own memory, its too difficult to insert automatic backdoors in via the compiler.
You are moronic, but just to fuel your schizo posts
> THE NSA SAYS
> GOOGLE SAYS
So brainwashed
isn't that just microsoft and google admitting their coders cant code for shit?
>70 percent of THEIR vulnerabilities
This line of argumentation always comes from the peak of the Dunning–Kruger effect.
kek
Malicious buffer overflows happen from unsanitized user input. Preventing that is one of the first things you get taught. Just because you don't expect a user to send fake game packets with extra longer data than would normally be expected doesn't mean you shouldn't have checks against it.
My post was more about those people saying stuff like "only Pajeets are responsible for memory safety issues", which is simply wrong. Even the best programmers in the world can accidentally shoot themselves in the foot or get blindsided by subtle bugs.
As long as a programming language allows you to do dumb shit, dumb shit will be done. Doesn't matter if you're an Elder Wizard or fresh out of CS101.
And even if you write perfect code you have no guarantee that someone else down the line won't frick it up.
In short: Rewrite(tm) it(r) in Rust(c).
Isn't u ity games written in csharp?
The scripting language is C#. The engine language is C and C++
Scripting is C#, C++ is more widely used and is what unity's backend is made out of
Every single relevant engine is made in C++
Anything else is just supported for scripting
Nope, Assembler.
People too dumb for that, so you code in C# inside.
Unity uses C# to talk to it's C++ API
All Unity objects (monobehavior/scriptable objects/etc) also have a .NET wrapper so it's all C++ (and is why creating/destroying them leads to weird shit happening)
The garbage collector isn't fast enough to handle video game stuff so you'll always have to base youre engine on C/C++
Since they rewrote their entire codebase Unity's C# is actually faster than pure C++ most of the times btw
Ok I know it's the political class, but actually who the frick said this stupid shit.
This is like
ADVANCED stupid.
This is a result of government websites repeatedly getting hacked, as well as different agencies being hit by ransomware/malware. It has nothing to do with video games.
That has literally nothing to do with anything, websites aren't written in C you Clly
The software running those websites is.
it will have something to do with video games soon
all multiplayer games are unsafe
https://techcrunch.com/2023/07/27/hackers-are-infecting-call-of-duty-players-with-a-self-spreading-malware
>Activision's game Call of Duty is having an issue with a virus being spread through it
>Contact Valve for an opinion on it
What the frick?
probably asking about taking the game down for having a vulnerability
https://www.pcmag.com/opinions/critical-exploit-for-apache-log4j2-could-be-far-reaching-proves-real-in
huh it's log4j again?
it's not a new article
point is, if you have sensitive data on your PC you shouldn't be playing multiplayer games
https://secret.club/2021/04/20/source-engine-rce-invite.html
MW2 2as already super fricked back in 2009/2010, I remember console players could wind up in hacked 18-player FFA Rust matches with the point cap maxed out.
>This is a result of government websites repeatedly getting hacked
Maybe the government should hire better programmers that know what they're doing then you fricking moron. It's not the fault of the language itself.
We’ll keep hiring my nephew Ezra Moshenberg who outsources it to india, and that’s that
That's pretty much what the israelite heavy Biden admin does.
responding to the most true thing said in this thread
>maybe logistic companies should hire better drivers, there is nothing wrong with using cars instead of trucks for hauling goods!
C++ is the fricking truck. Do you think computer scientists use it for no reason?
The internet is not just a big truck you can dump stuff on.
It's a series of tubes
That is racist and xenophobic, and a threat to our democracy!
>Maybe the government should hire better programmers
This. It's not just a US issue. In Sweden we had an attack not so long ago that crippled several municipalities healthcare IT systems. Our government keeps handing out contracts to the lowest bidders and our infrastructure is turning to absolute shit.
This all feels very surreal, it's like on a macro level the exact same memory handling issues are plaguing society and the economy.
Are you a fricking moron? There's no such thing as an unhakable system, everything is a race of finding holes, patching them before your enemy does, and praying that doesn't open more holes. Government systems are compromised in someway on a daily basis in every relevant country including China, us, russia
no one mentioned unhackable
Well... there is no such thing about an unhackable system when our computer architectures are designed in israel.
Private corps can pay way more than any government for security specialists.
Something like 80 to 90% of successful "hacks" are some moron falling for a phishing email.
Having the best programmers in the world can't fix user moronation.
this, it's why every company and governmental agency in the world makes you complete the most banal and basic net safety course about not opening the obviously malicious embedded file in your work email, because morons keep doing it
The strength of the system is only as strong as the weakest user
Went to the IRS the other day to fill some forms, when the lady attending me noticed I'm a programmer legit told me to apply for a job there because the whole IT team is inept
>This is a result of government websites repeatedly getting hacked
Websites are not written in C or C++, but with Java or C#.
It doesnt have anything to do with video games YET, you short-sighted demon/jew/globalist/leftist. You types are so incredibly stupid. You want to be lorded over by the government. You are incapable of thinking and providing for yourself so you need government thugs and equally stupid people to make your stupid decisions for you.
the smartest developers on this planet frick up all the time, as evidenced by a long history of CVEs in every piece of software ever. mitigating an entire class of severe bugs is a worthy enough goal that companies have started doing this before the government ever recommended a thing
on the contrary, you're just a pseud moron
reminder that all multiplayer games are full of security holes and if someone is really mad at you they can hit you with an RCE exploit
Not to be disrespectful, but what language does Biden code in?
Kotlin
Punched cards
Unironically a lot of common government code still does run like this
Poo poo dood pants 2.8
Chef, that man is cooking.
cobol like every old man
probably fortran
Enigma
More like I will take a fat shit in every toilet in the White House clogging all of them.
Scylla doesn't have legs you dumb fanartists.
that's my butt not her leg
wish she would
>Biden Administration warning about memory vulnerabilities
True expert are talking
Ohoho that's a funnie
jej
heh
Bwuhuhuhuh.
TDS bidenite gamers absolutely SEETHING rn
You're alright
Biden is memory unsafe
let me guess, C and C++ isn't as easy to hack
why the frick would the US government need to hack stuff? They'll just call up microsoft or apple or any social media company and be given direct access
C and c++ is more prone to buffer overflow Black person
>what do you mean I have to know how much memory I allocated
Preventing a buffer overflow is programming 101.
>Preventing a buffer overflow is programming 101
i.e. more than we can expect from the modern H1B software development apparatus.
moron diversity hires use java or similar
only midwits use C/C++ in current year
ASLR has been a thing since the 00s and shadow stacks since like 15 years ago.
It's not a real world issue unless you work with pajeets.
>dude I can't code it's the language fault!
It's pretty rare that there's some kind of exploit in the language itself in any language, although it does happen.
Programming is about talking to the computer. Assembly is you directly telling it what to do, C/C++ are you giving it the rough idea and then as you get further and further away from that into things like Java or Python/Javascript there are more layers between you and the computer so you're more limited in what you can tell it.
That also means that you're protected from doing it from dangerous things and it can hide a lot of complexity from you. In this case that's what biden is talking about - people making mistakes which cause problems that they didn't have to because they didn't need the complexity.
>Though maybe it was from a performance standpoint
That's generally it. It's more complexity and freedom but also more opportunity to make mistakes
Too hard for minorities. Please use javascript
im not into programming, but i thought C and C++ were seen as superior in memory handling, since you have more control of memory? Though maybe it was from a performance standpoint, in comparison to Java which has "garbage collector" doing some memory stuff.
The issue is lots of people make mistakes with memory handling so you get vulnerabilities and in most cases the extra control has no benefit. Also OP is homosexual and cropped an article so that it wasn't clear they were talking to developers who work for the US government. No shit the US government is overly paranoid about security vulnerabilities in their systems.
Thats the thing, C++ doesnt give a flying frick if you leave a memory pointer to nowhere
Java in comparison, will assign every undefined reference to "null" and has a garbage collector will gets rid of objects that are no longer referenced by nothing
Java is fricking garbage. The fact that you have zero memory control is what attracts so many shitskins to learn it, one less thing their subhuman brains need to worry about.
Remind me again which language is used in most mobile devices around the world?
Besides this is the dumbest argument ever, you complain about memory management safeguards when the existence of a high level language in already a safeguard
Unless you code in assembly or fricking binary, you have no right to complain about dumbing down, idiot
>Remind me again which language is used in most mobile devices around the world?
Javascript
Android you ding dong, thats java
Java is used everywhere because you don't have to recompile for every system type you dingus. But reliance on system specific java interpreters as a level of abstraction to maximize compatibility of java programs results in profound performance loss. Comparison between minecraft java and bedrock editions makes this obvious. That's not to say java is BAD, but it is suited for aplets and low demanding tools and nothing more, and was designed specifically for these light weight applications.
>results in profound performance loss
Describe "profound" because for the OVERWHELMING mayority of applications, the performance is pretty much the same
Also, bas example, you assume both versions of the game use exactly the same code only with a different language, you have no way of proving that
Use safe pointers, it’s not 1992 anymore
Meanwhile Java wont give a frick if your deendency injector makes 500 of the same object and keeping it in memory forever because they have a mutual reference to another god object, and good luck figuring out where the leak is coming from
>Thats the thing, C++ doesnt give a flying frick if you leave a memory pointer to nowhere
>if you leave a memory pointer to nowhere
>if you
>you
Correct, and whose fault is it for not managing their memory properly?
It's (You)
var obj = new int[5000000]
obj = null;
clean it up janny
auto obj = std::vector<int>(5000000)
It Just Works™
Or if you want to write something more complex then Hello, World program.
>something more complex
If you can't do it in C then you're a certified moron.
You might be too slow, or maybe you are just one of the zoom zooms, but let me explain what i meant:
I didn't argue that you can't do something in C, i said that tools C gave you are shit.
To make this comparison more tangible, imagine you have a yard, and you need to dig it through. But the only tool you got is toothbrush - that is C.
> i said that tools C gave you are shit
Okay moron-kun
Not even that guy, but you have to be a moron to argue the tools C gives you arent lacking
>the tools C gives you are lacking
Skill issue
One word: Objects
>objects
Don't need them if you don't suck.
>C and c++ is more prone to buffer overflow
If you're a brainlet, then yes
>Don't need them if you don't suck.
Ok champ, keep writing hello world, i wont bother you
Id love to see the company dumb enough to fall for that
I dread to imagine how disgusting your spaghetti code is
You have never written code commercially, i guarantee it
i don't know why are you arguing with people who are clearly trolling (because people that moronic doesn't exist)
I seriously hope you are right
>i wont bother you
>t. Has never written code for bare metal, so close to the hardware that you can literally taste the bits
>t. Has never written code for hardware that requires fastest execution time with no overhead added
>t. Has never written code for an OS that isn't even posix compliant
found the stuxnet dev, how's the weather in tel aviv
>literally an OOPlet
lmao literally everything you think is important is trickle-down management dogma from the 90s.
Have you ever written an interrupt routine? You little homosexual? No you haven't, because you're a homosexual. So why don't you go and write an interrupt routine, homosexual.
None of you homies have coded for any big company, im arguing with script kiddies, no wait, worse, script manchildren who have not catched up with the last 10 years of coding and consider it a virtue
>t. javascript Black person
If anything people who buy into Gang of Four-derived dogmas that proved themselves false within like five years of being sold to Enterprise™ in the 90s are closer to scriptkiddies simply because you think there's a silver bullet "pattern" to every problem instead of thinking from first principles.
OOP for writing code quickly
Functional for writing quick code
Simple as
>so addicted to OOP he can't even comprehend structs and function pointers
You can OOP in C
i'm sending rob pike to put a bomb in your mailbox
YOUR COMPUTER CANT HOLD A CAR JUST BECUASE YOU DEFINED PROPERTIES FOR ENGINE, COLOR AND WHEEL SIZE. IT OPERATES PROCEDURALLY, IN ORDER OF COMMANDS GIVEN TO IT, ON THE DATA IT HAS ACCESS TO. IT WILL NEVER HOLD A CAR. STOP PRETENDING IT CAN AND WRITE REAL CODE homosexual.
No but Anon if you make the object an Animal and then you make it inherit from Animal to become a Cat instead it will make your program 900% more understandable by someone that does not program for a living
>900% more understandable by someone that does not program for a living
1. No it won't.
2. Get morons away from code
maybe i should have put /s at the end like we were in fricking r*ddit or something
t. Never wrote non trivial software
That guy writes "hello world" and feels like hackerman
Have fun maintaining code (you) didnt write
>letting others touch your code
lmao
Have you ever worked on a git repository?
Its not the 90s anymore, companies want code that other people besides (you) can work on
Which is why you don't tell corporate about a git repository and write everything in C, you're untouchable and if they fire you they'll have to rehire you immediately if they want their staff to literally get paid (especially if the code has a "poison pills" throughout the backend that activates if not checked correctly periodically in addition to the software relying on the structure of certain exact hardware to function).
if you can pull that type of stunt on them, they fricking deserve it
you do realize that almost all ict companies require you to use version control, right?
that only works in small companies where you are the only one doing programming and they merely need someone to handle some system instead of developing anything.
Superior means you can manage memory manually instead of letting the garbage collector handle it, which can be more efficient. However, manual memory management is prone to errors. Rust attempts to address this issue with its borrow checker, but it introduces new issues
It is superior in control, which is why it can be stupid fast by how you can manually frick with memory.
The problem is the huge influx of pajeets with fake degrees writing most code these days, causing security vulnerabilities and memory leaks
Java bros, WE KEEP FRICKING WINING!
I program in C# we have memory leaks all the time
I use Java programs and they regularly crash from memory issues
In C++ if you are not a moron you would never have unsafe memory problems either, just dont use malloc and you are done
The problem isn't memory leaks, it's out-of-bounds array accesses and write-after-free. In C/C++, you can have a ten element array and overwrite its thousandth element if you like, which can be used by malware to modify any byte in memory. Memory-safe languages don't let you do that, which prevents a lot of vulnerabilities. Especially C-style strings and the related C standard library features have a lot of pitfalls that are easy to fall into.
In my opinion it's a pretty reasonable recommendation for most software, although personally I don't like the software architectures that Rust often forces you into.
>the related C standard library features have a lot of pitfalls
Confidently incorrect
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2565727/which-functions-from-the-standard-library-must-should-be-avoided#2565736
Discussing programming on Ganker is somehow always entirely moronic
>Single outdated post from 2010 on jeetoverflow
Not an argument
Outdated? It stopped being a vulnerability?
If you're so braindead that you're still using C++98 then yes. Otherwise it's a none issue
Over 60% of codebases are still using C++98 though.
In C you just bundle all the memory into Arenas and free whenever you now it's reasonable to do so.
Not a big issue. Don't care about C++s smart pointer shitting.
C-style strings also aren't an issue, just don't use the dogshit standard library. (which you wouldn't in Rust either for anything that matters)
The same could be said for basically any language: do it right, and you won't have issues; do it wrong, and you will
Just recently I spotted an error where a for-loop meant to go backwards through an array still used ++, so it overflowed the int and wrapped around to hit 0. I'm not sure how the frick that happened, since it caused a noticeable stutter and, you know, didn't do shit since it never checked the indices it was meant for, but there it was. Some people just do a bad job and need life baby-proofed
how do you frick up something as basic as making sure the index is within bounds? human errors happen but still
And that's why you use code analyzers
Short answer, by not writing tests. OutOfRangeException is moronicly common.
It was part of a public API that wasn't used, I believe, and - I'm guessing - was never tested. This was outdated in-house stuff. I was looking through it at random and just spotted it as I was scrolling through. Had it been used even once someone would instantly have noticed that it took 2 seconds to execute
>in-house stuff
morons not testing properly is not the languages fault.
That's exactly my original point, yeah
unsafe
{
}
You don't even need that. https://github.com/Speykious/cve-rs
only the most quality posts are made by the white house
Embrace monke
go back to Assembly
I mean, the language doesn't necessarily make the game better or worse. it's not like it's the 90's anymore where you have to fit your game onto a tiny cartridge.
This line of thinking is how the Dark Forces remaster takes up 23gb.
consoleBlack person argument
Imagine
maybe they should stop hiring pajeets
The skill of the average modern programmer is really that bad huh
same guy who told people that a 9mm bullet would blow the lungs out of the body so...
unreal is one of the shittiest engine in the whole industry. good riddance.
>White House staffers treating Biden like it's Weekend At Bernie's again
I hope he gets another term actually, this can only get funnier.
Given the economic prospects of it, I don't.
They're getting worse either way
Well yeah, they'll certainly try to make it worse as a retaliatory action. There's a hard limit on how effective that can be and it's not very high.
>let us handly your memory management.
>no! don't touch those memory addresses! it is for your own security. trust us.
what better way to hide backdoors using compilers than making sure people can't control their memory management
Game industry runs on c++, what the frick are they even going to substitute it with?
with nsa backdoors ofcourse. now get to writing the new war thunder using our safer languages
Jai
Oh yeah man I'm really gonna stop writing code for my 16 bit MCUs in C, that's totally going to happen. I've got plenty of processing power left to implement Rust's "problematic number checker" too, I'll get right on it.
Why do they care what language people code in? If their zogbot developers can’t handle C or C++, how does that translate to them wanting nobody else to use the language?
One day reading and writing are going to be declared unsafe and your nearest politician will recommend watching government regulated tv channels instead.
I'm a codelet
What are the alternatives?
I use Blender to do my 3D work, and I know that is made in Python. Should I start learing Python so that I can get hired at the White House and kill the israelites from the inside?
>is made in Python
Guess what python is made in fricktard
blender is mostly made with c++
python is used for ui and some surface level stuff
>Python for user interface layout, simple tools, keymaps, presets and add-ons.
>GLSL for shaders.
>C++ for the rest of the code. Originally most code was C, but only a small amount remains now.
i urge for them to suck gigantic wieners and shut the frick up about what other people do.
I miss the good times, when the US government talking about software meant we got "America's Army"
Maybe just don't write sloppy code?
>computers are made so easy even a baby can use them
>zoomers are completely incapable of doing tech jobs because they have no idea how to troubleshoot or fix computers anymore
Bet if you put a broken TV in front of this guy he wouldn't have been able to fix that either or even program his cable box remote to work with it. Ease of use is not the same as programming and repair.
>tfw born too early to get into coding
>all these zoomers now have high paying tech jobs and im still stuck being a warehouse worker
realistically how long would it take me to learn python or c++?
6 months to compete with pajeets.
5 years to compete with moronic whites
10 years to start getting actually useful
20 millenia to reach 1% of Carmack's knowledge
It's too late, bro. Let it go.
can you solve abstract problems, and are you willing to read technical documents?
If yes to both of these, then about 6 months would make you proficient enough.
>are you willing to read technical documents?
Confession, I have avoided this and went to tutorials or asked for help. I will start digging into technical documents more often now.
Wait, you didn't read the 1000+ page hardware documentation?
Not gonna make it
Oh. No. I read a book "C++ Primer (5th Edition) 5th Edition" with only 976 pages.
I did for one job I had, where I was programming some motor controller. But for frontend development like Next JS/React? I was heavily motioned and advised to do it, but nope.
And yet I am currently lost trying to recreate the tiermaker site.
https://tiermaker.com/create/super-smash-bros---all-character-renders-64-ultimate-16084006
After I finished doing some studying up on dotnet, I'll get to this.
just be careful when selflearning. it is easy to remain entirely oblivious to some important things and not even realize that you never learned to take them into account
>want to stop being a codelet
>been looking at unity and C# tutorials in my (very limited) free time in the past couple months
>wrote a simple calculator with WPF
>wrote a dead simple game prototype with mspaint grafix
>made a dumb mod for a game on steam workshop
I feel I'm a brainlet and progress is very slow, but I don't want to stop, this stuff is pretty fun.
I feel like I need to push myself and write some simple, but real and functional app from scratch to train myself further. Doesn't have to be an original idea, I'm down for simply writing a version of something that exists just to train myself. The problem is I can't decide on anything, and I don't want this one to be a game because I don't want to tunnel on Unity right now. What would you suggest anons?
Don't give up! It's not easy, nothing worth doing is. But as long as you persevere, you can still achieve it!
Write a CHIP-8 emulator and then some other emulators like Gameboy/NES
WAGMI bro
the code bubble already burst, anon. you'll be competing for relatively few jobs with (1) people who actually love to code and have done it all their lives; (2) Indians who will work for peanuts out of a hovel in Mumbai, and; (3) AI. Find a union labor job instead. By all means learn to code if you are interested in it, but don't treat it as career retraining because you'll be betting on a very uncertain future.
>the code bubble
hello third worlder
keep telling everyone to learn to code you boomer schizo.
>being a warehouse worker
you are there forever
A lot of fomo around computer jobs, but yes the bubble for tech workers burst already and now everything is being run by street shitters. Realistically, you should be competent with Python in about a year if you're starting from 0 and you're consistent about learning. Then, I would rip the training wheels off and leap into C/C++ and start understanding memory allocation. From there pretty much any language you might learn will be absolutely trivial. Also, it's fun.
>born too early to get into coding
Unless you're like eighty years old this is bullshit. Computer science has been a thing in colleges for decades, and programming/coding has been a big field since before that. A lot of the older, wealthier programmers I know made a ton of money around Y2K making changes for banks in archaic programming languages.
meanwhile israel has a literal backdoor in every single intel chip
Biden uses after free every time he tries to recall something
>White House: You should switch to a memory safe language, or be able to prove you've successfully implemented defenses against unsafe operations if using C or C++. Memory vulnerabilities account for 70% of hacks.
Why are people freaking out about this statement? It's basic common sense.
Driving cars causes crashes. People shouldn't drive cars. It's common sense
They're not telling you to stop using C++, just to have additional scrutiny if you do use C++.
Quit making up fictional scenarios in your head to get mad at.
YES, PEOPLE SHOULDNT DRIVE A CAR BUT AMERICAN CITIES WERE BUILT OR CHANGED TO MAKE PEOPLE DEPENDENT ON CARS
>70% of hacks
No.
70% of CVEs at Microsoft. Most of which are theoretical and either hard or impossible to actually exploit.
It's mostly an empty statistic quoted by Rust people because it sounds extreme at a glance if you don't know how CVEs get reported.
>White House advises developers to use code that doesn't have tons of memory leak issues
>Ganker: THIS IS BAD FOR SOME REASON
>doesn't have tons of memory leak issues
That's a skill issue. Learn to write better code than your average pajeets
Unreal is trash.
sisters, come join us in HRT(helpful rust threads)!
They're obviously talking about government-contracted software
frick it, i'm going back to using java
>Indians use Java, Javascript and pretend to know Python
>Government says not to use C and C++, the backbone of everything good and the white man's language because they want to continue flooding the tech market with diversity hires
Windows being shit was just the beginning. It's going to get worse very soon.
lmao Rust literally offers nothing to game dev.
Even the biggest shills for Rust in the industry Embark basically say it's a "one day we would like to be able to use it" thing.
>president biden will not play your indie game because it's not memory safe
it's over...
It's okay, even if he did play it he wouldn't be able to appreciate it because he's not memory safe
>Joe Biden can replay Outer Wilds every week and be wowed every time
It's not fair!
It has nothing to do with that. Indians struggle with C and C++. Durgasoft cant train these clowns properly.
C++ (also known as Cpoopoo) is the quintessential jeetlang, moron.
>C++
>jeetlang
Just because they pretend to understand it, doesn't mean they actually can use it. Just like a toilet
Bjarne himself doesn't understand his own language, you silly homosexual. Who are you fooling?
Found the pajeet.
Indians don't know shit.
that's why they use C++
>They use C that means they're good at it
Half the truck drivers in my city are indian and they're terrible.
I live in the most Indian city in Canada and these guys are moronic. They pretend to be knowledgeable in academics and skilled in the trades but they pale in comparison to an average white guy.
Yep, I'm thinking it's time to switch out of CS if you haven't already.
All of my C++ professors were poos, this is irrefutable.
off by one errors only happen when
1. you use a poorly documented api/file/stream
2. you do complicated for/while loops with dynamic loop counter ranges
Someone told him to download more RAM and he took that as advice.
>white house urges....
Stopped reading there. Let the free market develop as it pleases.
when The President tells you to do something you do it kiddo
>Its le for your own safety!
>70% of bugs and crashes are related to memory
>...not because you hired a bunch of java pajeets and pajeetas
The CIA really doesn't have backdoors to C and C++?
KWAB
C is fairly easy to implement your own compiler for so no.
>totally not backdoored guise
kek, these trannies
For me, it’s python 🙂
What a bizarre statement from the WH.
I hecking love to know that im using software that was hecking fast to develop in and was totally cool to work with for Mr. Sanrijh Kumar
Im absolutely fine with having 90% of my CPU power stolen by a bunch of software that was made by a bunch of adults with efficient developing tools
Hardware has gotten 10x faster in a couple years, but is relatively still just as fast or slow as it used to be because a bunch of greedy fricks started prioritizing their development speed and efficiency instead of focusing on product quality
>The only way a program can be safe is if you take away control from users, throw away the lock and key, run over CIA with your car
No but seriously, its another "think of the kids" or "its for your own safety" argument
You will never be able to make it impossible for people to frick with you if they care enough except by having no control over anything you own
And to say that you need protection from yourself is insulting, but modern programmers dont think like that, they are cattle.
>you need protection from yourself
your users need protection from you
>Guys stop making shit that lets others detect our backdoors
>all memory safe languages are made in C or C++
>rust is implemented with LLVM, a C++ project
UH OH!!!! UH OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so the languages can remain written in c or c++ and the people actually writing applications can write in the memory safe languages. what's the problem?
writing in C is the only way to make my imposter syndrome go away
And I urge the White House to do their fricking job and enforce the 25th
just give up C-niles, learn Lisp
reminds me of this blog post
https://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2019/08/22/WhyClojure.html
>I’ve built a real time, GUI based, animated space war game using Clojure. I could keep the frame rates up in the high 20s even with hundreds of objects on the screen. Clojure is not slow
in the HIGH 20s
anything over 12 fps is worthless gamerbro bait pushed by razer, asus, samsung and nvidia marketing teams
> If nanoseconds are your concern than you probably don’t want Clojure in your innermost loops.
I knew Bob was a fricking OOP grifter but this much is just fricking dirty dishonest shit, take his white card away and throw him in prison with the Black folk
system programming is different from application programming
you wont program any low-lovel clever code anyway Black person
game programming is systems programming
lisp is a toy you give to israelites when they're bored
the web runs on slow ass shit code
yeah it does
anything else?
premature optimization is the root of all evil
It's been five fricking decades when are we going to optimize the internet?
>high 20s
it's some dogturd lib, chill out Linus
no one has provided a good reason to stick with c or c++ lmao
bro you don't understand I like being able to frick up with no tangible benefits
We don't need to. Rust doesn't offer a single goddamn thing that gamedevs care about.
Memory safety is irrelevant for games.
>Memory safety is irrelevant for games
every time someone says this i'm gonna post another RCE exploit
https://blog.bricked.tech/posts/tmnf/part2
>XML-RPC parsing
Rust would likely have to do that in an unsafe block either way.
lol
https://neodyme.io/en/blog/csgo_from_zero_to_0day
All issues of implementation logic. Rust doesn't help with that at all.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/22/22896785/dark-souls-3-remote-execution-exploit-rce-exploit-online-hack
Buffer overflows. The first issue you've posted that Rust actually does solve.
Of course turning on compiler features like shadow stacks, distrusting user input on the server-side and bounding your arrays does the same thing.
This being Bamco they could probably replace their servers with a Rust version if they feel like telling their devs to turn on a bunch of compiler flags is too much work.
>Of course turning on compiler features like shadow stacks, distrusting user input on the server-side and bounding your arrays does the same thing
why aren't they doing it then? keep in mind that i never mentioned rust
"memory safety is irrelevant for games" is just bullshit, if steam automatically ran games in a sandbox it wouldn't be such a big issue but almost all games would shit the bed if you tried that today
https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2023-24059
>why aren't they doing it then?
Because it's a new issue for them they haven't had to deal with before.
How is that not obvious?
They're not PC developers originally.
>"memory safety is irrelevant for games" is just bullshit
lmao yeah that's why Rustgays literally can't make a single game and try to shit out engines without understanding what paradigms like ECS are trying to solve.
>but almost all games would shit the bed if you tried that today
Almost all games never touch online and out of those who do 90% don't trust the players in the first place.
How many games can you cite where CVEs have been an actual exploited issue?
I have never heard of a game being used as an attack vector other than people discovering you COULD use it
Hackers dont fricking give a shit about chumps with no money, this isnt the 90s anymore when you could write an exe that disguised itself as a text file for windows and a 12 year old could troll an entire nation with just a couple emails
The game industry and gamers dont give a shit about "safety" ...except when you mention cheaters, then they get on their knees to suck on anyones wiener to give complete access to their PCs to chinese, russians and worst of all, CIA
>I have never heard of a game being used as an attack vector other than people discovering you COULD use it
just read this
i think the old COD games have been the most consistently attacked but it happens more often than you think, it's not professional hackers looking to make money but rather angry nerds with too much time on their hands
someone is dominating you? send a meterpreter payload and frick with their computer for a while
Thats still not become common enough, besides, Black folk could rob you on the streets in NY and not get a prison sentence when caught, yet we didnt switch from using Black folk as labor
>Thats still not become common enough
i'm just going to leave my door unlocked while i go on vacation because "break-ins aren't common enough"
look you're right that no one cares but that's the fricking problem
You would trade every benefit you get from C/C++ (fast, efficient software) for a small gain in safety, that will eventually be eroded away anyway because people work fulltime around the world to frick with people to gain money through blackmail and stealing data from BIG COMPANIES or because you were afraid someone could RCE exploit your java server? Because thats the only "real" bad exploit i have ever heard of ever actually being a thing, and it was never reported as being done to anyone anyway.
The entire argument for videogames needing to be safe is just plain moronic because there hasnt been any real noticeable things ever happening, because again, theres no money in it
A few nerds doing some stupid shit isnt a reason to switch to using a completely different language for creating videogames, not to gamers, not to the companies
Companies are sooner to switch to fricking having their games written in visual languages (think building legos with code) than ever giving a shit about safety
>You would trade every benefit you get from C/C++ (fast, efficient software) for a small gain in safety
no one said you had to switch languages
literally just check that the data fits in your buffers when you receive a network packet
that's how almost all these exploits work, some moron that wrote the code assumes everyone is "nice" and would never send malformed data to you
that's defensible for the 90s (when only middle/upper class whites played on PC) but not today
Well then we werent even talking about the same thing
Its standard practice no matter what you do to check if the data fits in your buffer, doesnt matter if youre using rust or not, but i think Rust just enforces it (?) during compile
>Well then we werent even talking about the same thing
switching to rust would also solve all of these issues
your choice
you can keep crying about that below
>Its standard practice no matter what you do to check if the data fits in your buffer
it's clearly not lmao
>See? Those people didnt do the thing!! Government please protect us from ourselves!
(You)
Most shit written in C never wasted my time
I know for a fact most C++ programs using virtual functions do
But then again, there are sane people that stick to what works instead of doing the funny "0 cost abstractions"
>we can't crack c and c++ please use RISC
I would not listen to the government about technologic stuff
i only ever learned C, C++, and Java in school a gorillion years ago
what are people using now?
C and C++ for games pretty much.
Some hope of Jai making a dent there once it gets into an open beta release but who knows.
For games, it's either C++ (Unreal) or C# (Unity)
If you're talking about coding in general, I dunno. I work in a random IT job, and I work in .NET (C#). I know some shit here that's done in Java too, so it really depends
Rust has only ever been used by insecure webdev undergrads in college that want job security and think they are "system engineers" and now they are twice as more unbearable now that this government statement came out
>White House says
Whit House need to urge Israel to frick off
Java bros, we won.
>tfw did my first Java pull requests a couple of months ago
Feels good man.
Modern C++, with RAII and single-ownership and all the other great new features, addresses a lot of these issues.
The problem is the stubborn fossils that still program like it's C++98 or "C with classes" and continue to do so in new code in 2024 and other code-bases that have similar "I don't like new things!!!"-leadership.
unique_ptr alone goes such a long way as it is. Even using move-only types for GPU handles for Vulkan/OpenGL is great since your lifetimes are entirely RAII based now and you only give out non-owning references to objects.
There is also hardware security measures like PAUTH that add safety at a hardware level, which Rust has absolutely zero access to.
You can still inject a DLL or APC call into a rust process, but at least c and c++ are low-level enough to where you can protect against it.
Rust is only good for singular monolithic applications and you lose all that safety the instant you try to make something big and modular with dlls or plugins since you lose all of that lifetime tracking at the ABI boundary.
Rust is for web-developer shitheads that want to feel like they're doing "low level" programming.
RAII isn't that great either if you have clean cut free situations like in games.
You're contorting the code to deal with lifetime semantics one pointer at a time instead of bundling them into distinct arenas.
You can give different objects different allocators.
Even the standard library has this pattern.
You can use the standard new/delete allocator or use your own and implement it however you want and it will use it in the dtor.
Can def tell you're a rust head that never touched C++ if you didn't know this.
The problem with oop and c++ is that spaghetti is a much bigger pain to debug and fix. don't tell me to code better, because every fricktard who has worked in the industry knows that given enough time every code turns into spaghetti.
Pure C is easier to debug. The worst case is when you get some 1000 line function and pointer frickery.
why do you oop haters always seem to imagine some insane forest of inheritance frickery when most cases of oop have a depth of 1 where some classes just need to share an interface and that's it.
You guys always point at shit like "a->b->c,d,e,f->g->h->i->g,k" when 99999% of the use-cases is just "a->1,2,3,4" and MAYBE "a->1,2,3,(4->x)" and that's it.
Even the linux kernel is OOP but just implement vtables and "inheritance" and such manually.
cniles think reinventing the wheel is a virtue
>seem to imagine some insane forest of inheritance frickery
Because I've seen 10+ year old legacy C++ embedded code. Calling it spaghetti would have been a compliment
Because going more than 1-2 depths is almost always unjustifiable and literally almost every single C++ library out there is guilty of it and worse.
And C++ OOP in practice implies a lot more than C OOP does.
>give it different allocators
All of which end up having to contort around the DAG issues brought on by modern C++ more or less presuming RAII as the standard.
Rust has almost the exact same problem for that matter. They bought into the "zero cost abstraction" religious thinking full-on and enforce what is effectively RAII (but with worse semantics like picking between Arc/Rc) to deal with issues brought on by the Affine type system constraints.
eager allocation and deallocation from raii is convenient and for most people it's enough, but not great. programming languages like C/C++ need much better metarprogramming and better options to manage memory.
Reflection is also kind of piss-poor. Kinda crazy but doable in C when you have to rely on preprocessor macros/actively parsing your own code to be able to tell runtime debug info.
Hoping Jai turns out as good as i've seen hints of it being, it'd be a step-up for my own projects at least.
im not a fan of reflection being used in programs, at least at runtime. im referring to having a more abstract and rich way to look at code. more like youre writing code as higher level functions and are assembling them. similar to templated programming but on triple steroids. theres a language called terra which promises this but its a little awkward and has a pretty barebones stdlib
I generally don't put much hope in abstraction and silver bullets.
For me a C without warts and with some of the niceties of modern languages without going moronic ideological like Rust did would be good.
>For me a C without warts and with some of the niceties of modern languages
so c++. you don't have to use every feature in the language; even just RAII is nice so you don't have to "goto cleanup" every time you need to handle an error
>so c++.
No because C++ is actively worse than C in most respects. It's a language that likes to have it's "features" get in the way of getting shit done which I abhor.
>because C++ is actively worse than C in most respects.
No. you just need a company give you programming standards to force you only using certain features. I guess few are working in a big company and review each others' code.
Yeah, sticking to a subset and having to deal with the issues C++ adds onto C and having to deal with the entire focus of the language being whatever dumb shit the C++ committee shat out this year instead of fixing it's issues, which is what I do.
I don't feel like enumerating all the issues C++ has for me personally but the TLDR is that i'd much rather have a C with modern tooling rather than deal with C++ forever.
I already do, although i've seen some fairly strong arguments for just going pure C if I could be bothered to make the jump. I just don't like it very much and hope for better alternatives.
nothing is stopping you from writing C++ like C an using the features you do like. it's not like you have to have a 10 deep virtual inheritance tree all with templated member functions that throw exceptions for control flow or whatever you think C++ "is."
>java
>safe
log4j
I don't know how to program. Sometimes I put on programming lectures to fall asleep to but I haven't learned anything.
>i dont know how to program
same, this thread is a bunch of gay nerds
I've started and stopped learning multiple times.
The field is so advanced now that it feels completely unfeasible to self teach. Maybe back when there were 4 languages it was easier because the barrier of entry didn't exist but now every concept is built on top of another concept built on top of another concept built on top of another concept.
Just go c/assembly as starting point, then to c++.
Every other languages works on the same principles with restrictions. C is almost the purest form of programming
>starting with assembly
Some of the worst but also best advice you can give.
Learning programming with assembly would be like having your first video game be Dark Souls II when it should be something like Mario.
Not starting with assembly, but starting with C and assembly along side it, just to understand what happens in thr background. Like what does a for loop mean on that level.
If you just listen to programming lectures you will literally get nowhere. Programming is a hand-on activity and unless you actually install a compiler and start writing code yourself, you will never even be able to grasp the basics.
Truth be told I wasn't trying very hard to learn.
It's like learning a musical instrument. If you just spend all your time listening to theory without putting any of it into practice, you won't get anywhere.
America now confirmed 3rd world country.
is learning C++ a meme in current year?
I'm currently self-learning it because I've got nothing better to do, but I'm hoping to use it for my own gamedev projects once I'm competent enough
Every year for the past 20 years there is an article about how c/c++ is dead and it's still alive and well
C++ is an excellent balance between abstraction and performance. Most serious programming is done in C++ and probably always will be. It's also easy to learn other languages if you learn C++ first because most of them are derivative of it at least in terms of syntax.
>in terms of syntax
Nobody fricking borrows c++ syntax, which is absolutely horrid shit
C++ and everything else borrows from C syntax, which is basically the default
>Nobody fricking borrows c++ syntax
Rust does for marketing reasons and it's easily one of the worst things about the language.
>is learning C++ a meme in current year?
No. It's a good language to teach you the fundamentals of programming and it's used in a lot of software
Worst case scenario there will always be legacy systems jobs
>legacy systems jobs
The most important things in the world are still written in C(++)
My point is that even when that's no longer true the volume of C++ code in existence is so high that you'll never run out of work to do
>is learning C++ a meme in current year?
Its unnessesary, but NOT a waste of time, because is very similar to Java and C#, 2 widely used languages today, and if you implement OOP, then you got the basics to understand any language made in the past 20 years
>understand any language made in the past 20 years
Not even close to the truth
Still issue
Ive made and maintained code in ruby, C# and python in less than a week after being introduced them
Granted my base for all of this is Java, but C++ is close enough
You wont be an EXPERT, you you will have the tools to understand
If you moved from assembly to python for instance, youd be completely lost
>ruby, C# and python
Now try some HDL or functional languages moron
Can you name one of those languages made in the last 20 years?
it's fun, dont act like learning one thing will prevent you from learning anything else, thats sub 70 IQ talk. if you want to move to intermediate c++, read effective modern c++. its debatable whether the book is even modern anymore but its a good resource still
C is nothing like C++, it's a far superior language for one thing.
Who let the mon/g/oloids out of their containment board?
>Bro Just literally dump 99% of all programs.
Actual peak moronation, these people still dont get its all written in assembly still. C is just a more readable assembly, c++ is just a more readable C
>US government are pushing the literal troony agenda language (Rust)
Why I'm not surprised?
says the HUMAN with MEMORY LEAKS like a fricking poorly coded dos game!!!
modern cpp isn't even unsafe
west->hasFallen();
do not fret comrades, there will always be room for CPP in the CCP!
I hate CVE and Security Champions
I hate the mods so god damn much holy shit.
you didn't even try to make that post seem remotely related to vidya, at least this OP mentioned game engines
Are the mods in elementary school? It doesn't take 2 braincells to realize C++ and C are used in video game programming.
You forgot to include bideojames in your post somewhere
The jannies are russian spies and do not want you to know these things.
WINDOWS 7 CHADS
CANNOT STOP WIN
WIN WINNING .
>Unity and Unreal
has there been a game released post-covid on those engines that is even good?
Amid Evil Black Labyrinth
>White house wants people to switch to rust
>Rust is controlled by trannies
>Biden administration is full of trannies
Hmmmm I wonder who could be behind this...
anything else israelite?
Maybe they mean "in industry, medicine, banking software and so on, and not "we literally gonna shoot you dead because you wrote hello world in c.
std::cout<<"hello feds!"
ONE, NOTHING WRONG WITH ME
that's c++, not c anon
>"just learn to code"
>spend 10 years coding and making bank
>"now do it again"
>now do it again
if youre a software developer youre learning at least 1 new language a year by just doing shit. learning new things should not be scary anon
>learning new things should not be scary anon
It's not scary, but at some point you start becoming mentally unhinged because a skill you learned is rendered obsolete because some geriatric dementia-riddled neanderthal says we shouldn't use it anymore.
C and C++ are perfectly fine. The reason memory overflows occur is QUITE LITERALLY because someone fricked up during coding.
>hurr just don't write bugs
people that say this have only worked on 1000 LoC hobby projects. and before you say shit like "only pajeets write bugs" the first fuzzer in the late 80s found crashes in ~30% of Unix commands.
>late 80s
Its 2024. Tooling hay become so advanced and automated that if you leave a single dangling pointer, it won't allow to merge your code.
Apart from some arcane bugs caused by once in a blue moon conditions, the common issues can be avoided by properly setting up your dev and test environment
theres value in preferring to use a tool that doesnt shred you to pieces when its acceptable to use it over the Black person-muncher 9000
>use a tool that doesnt shred you to pieces
Skill issue
>grug will not stand on the shoulders of giants grug will reinvent wheel after wheel because it satisfies my autism
everyone who speaks like this is either moronic and/or trolling
I don't work for the White House.
no one cares what biden's puppeteers say
Is it just me or are the anticipating the competency crisis?
It's like they are expecting the next generation of programmers to be borderline moronic so they want them to use ~~*safer*~~ programming languages.
Unless you're working for an industry leader, the current generation of programmers is already moronic, anon. They have been for a long time.
The combined programming knowledge in the world is limited. Too many "people" are trying to get in. It doesn't help either that John Carmack has like 90% of it
Nah it's just management bullshit and the vain hope of the Department of Defense of being able to cut costs by being able to copy/paste AI code with some guarantees. Same reason they pushed Ada Spark so hard before.
>the vain hope of the Department of Defense of being able to cut costs by being able to copy/paste AI code with some guarantees
in a thread full of dumb posts this one might be the dumbest
Unless we're talking specific groups like the Avionics people or the external contractors at Palantir then the standards for the Chair Force aren't as high as you think.
Definitely, problem is who is going to work on the underbelly of the safer languages when no one will be competent enough?
>no one will be competent enough?
Hello Sir, please accept my pull request. I've removed the duplicate long from long long
lmao Cloudflare just open sourced one of their Rust networking frameworks and every single pull request is Chinese webdevs fixing typos.
They seem to have taken over that scam from the pajeets and trannies.
maybe
At my uni, the teacher assistant would've kicked you out of the course while he and everyone else would be laughing at you.
Are they following Paulo Freire's method of teaching or the US education took a nosedive Shitzil style?
it's because zoomers never had to troubleshoot a computer; they grew up on fisher price technology products that Just Work or you take them to the store to get a new one. long gone are the days of figuring out what IRQ you need for your sound card
most code monkeys are already incompetent, code literacy has been dead (in gaming, at least) since the PSX days.
this is hilarious because the codes that still safeguard the nuclear arsenal are all written in decades-old Fortran.
You can summon Demons with FORTRAN.
Which is?
Biden really, REALLY loves China.
They're doing this for security reasons. This is meant for companies working in finance, cybersecurity, ect. not some anime fanart shitgame developers. Steam could get wiped off the face of the earth tomorrow and the white house wouldn't give a shit.
If there's anywhere that could easily adopt bloat, it's mission critical embedded
People in Finance just use Java and drop down to C++ for high quant which isn't going to bother with Rust because the latter has to provably get shit done.
Cybersec will probably pretend to use it and then use Python in everything because lol sysadmins and code.
>learns to code
>doesn't know what to code
>never codes
literally me
I'm supposed to graduate and enter the workforce in less than a year but even with a GPA of 3.7 I feel like I have no real programming experience because I can't think of anything I really want to code and maybe put on github for employers to look at.
Lmao
Got my first full time job while doing my masters without even having a github account.
When was it? I hear kids don't have it as easy anymore.
5 years or so. Having 3 years of part time experience and having exams of literally every interview question in the 2 weeks before it did help though.
However, finishing the 5,5 years course in 8 not so much
that's comforting to hear
Did you get it through some connections or was it just through normal job searching? I know the resume is like 90% of getting a job and its easy enough to bullshit on that, I'm just concerned that my honesty and lack of experience working on large products is going to disqualify me in favor of some scamming poojeet
Sent my cv to Nokia and Ericsson. Both companies I've sworn never to work at, but my previous employer was moronic.
No connections there at all, just some basic tests, where you could chose what modules to do. I think it was C, C++, python, bash and maybe some basic Linux stuff.
The second round interview was just basically talking about embedded technology principles like audio sampling and processing, real time operating systems.
I was completely honest with them, told why I was still not finished with university, that I don't want to work as an intern but as a full time employee who does his masters on the side.
Kraków perhaps ?
A bit more south, but almost correct.
So Prague, hello neighbour.
>Europe
easy mode for tech jobs
you don't have to compete with a million pajeet nepotism hires who lie on their resume, and the techno-israelite oligarchy is less overbearing so there's no explicit bias against white guys
Wrong. Outsourcing is still a thing here. Western workers are laid of to get more pajeets from Mumbai. Eastern European devs have to unfrick their shit
i feel for you two. i spent my teenage years making fun shit in gmod. nowadays the closest youll get to that is making stuff in roblox or godot but it's not the same at all. everything got turned into gig economy, even kids learning to fricking program
this applies to software used by government agencies, ie shit under fedramp. has literally nothing to do with consumers and the market
Why are you morons sperging out about a recommendation for contractors and government workers?
It has nothing to do with games, morons
Rust status?
<insert random programming language > will totally replace C/C++ and not fail at it like all the others have
They want you to use glowie program language
its fricking time
>C and C++ are safu
No shit, only lazy Black folk fell for Jave etc
>Inb4 but you have to do shit manually in C++
Good
>another thread of wizards "fighting" which spellcasting language is better
You guys don't even know what magic is. Leave actual magic to Sorcerors.
>he fell for the "programming is like le heckin magicerino meme!!!"
There is literally nothing arcane about programming, it's all just basic logic which, to be fair, is arcane to a vast majority of the population
Well magic involves chanting a bunch of shit too
>Leave actual magic to Sorcerors.
So we're talking about Lisp then.
>white house urges
No way these homies arent up to no good, but what could it be?
I want to learn c and c++ so badly now. Frick the government. Frick all governments. These statements will cause demons to seethe.
>I want to learn c and c++ so badly now
>C is unsafe
>system bugs are caused by memory leaks
i developed in C back in the day but i don't get what does this mean
do people try to access memory locations that have not been allocated or something like that? do they forget to free()?
Most actual vulnerabilities of the recent past have arisen from shit completely unrelated to memory safety.
Some lobbyist with a hard-on for Rust and the likes went to the Biden administration and told them some garbage, that even normal people would "understand", so the Biden people feel like they were ahead of the curve, while they have fallen for stupid non-substantial propaganda.
>Biden
A thing of the past by this time next year.
C++ is memory safe just use smart pointers.
>white house
Who gives a shit what pretend government wants?
Most people that hate OOP can’t use an ide
I have a coworker who writes C++ code like it’s C, with all its archaic outdated bullshit, like 5000 line long files, hungarian notation, manual pointers etc. Of course he uses Linux and vim
He was complaining to me that he hates classes because he can never find where they are defined. He used goddamn grep to search through every file and look through the results. I showed him that I can just press F12 in visual studio and he got so mad
>manual pointers outdated archaic bullshit
Next youre going to tell me for loops are "icky"
they are in C++11 and on. if you're writing new or delete outside of library code that has a good reason for it (e.g. placement new), you've probably fricked up
We have shared and unique pointers that are infinitely superior to naked pointers. It’s like being gifted a golden toilet and then shitting in the woods anyway
>muh overhead
Not even noticable in benchmarks
Ah yes, add that overhead to the pile of "Zero Cost Abstractions" over there in the corner
>Not even noticable in benchmarks
Probably because you're doing nothing of interest.
It's very easy to outdo "modern" C++ code if you actually care.
Funny that no one seems to get that doing bulk work with handling pointers is far more efficient than dealing with them one at a time which is what practically all new C++ pointer features, and by extension Rust, does.
>visual studio
Yeah because I want to rely on a piece of shit that still has the same troubles with updating watch windows it did back in 2006.
Eclipse is shit too
Besides your coworker, who the frick doesn't use an IDE when programming? Regardless of the language.
Most C and C++ programmers don’t
Really?
And where did you pull this observation from? Your butthole is not a valid answer
Even the most boomer of boomers atleast use notepad++ which is configurable
And VIM IS an IDE too
I use VIM all the time and it is better gaystudio.
Code review in gerrit doesn't have syntax highlight or code lookup.
>who the frick doesn't use an IDE when programming?
A lot of people. Modern IDEs are clunky, force weird/bad building methods (like .sln files or cmake) and often don't add much if you already know what you're doing. (assuming your codebase isn't some horribly OOP thing and then you have to at least use one of the editors that are aware of C++'s function definitions)
A lot of people dropped VS hard once standalone debuggers like remedybg started doing debugging better.
text editors with LSPs are all the rage nowadays, just use your build tools to generate a compile_commands.json and use clangd in neovim or vscode baddabing baddaboom
Yeah I know.
Personally I don't bother and just use .bat/make files until they start becoming so complex as making it worth the trade-off of bothering with something more.
Yet another thing I want of a modern C replacement since having a separate build system from the language itself is moronic imo.
>savvy enough to use vim
>somehow unable to understand multiple header files
your fantasy is not based on reality
Why would I care what some trash old frickers says about stuff that they don't even dream to comprehand in 1000 years?
OF the white house wants to push for code easy to shut down machines
all for the 2030 agenda because C and C++ cant be fricked like Java and python since these 2 has backdoors
SIRS PLEASE DO THE NEEDFUL AND DO NOT LEARN HOW TO CODE IN C OR C++ IT IS A BLOODY b***h BASTARD RACIST LANGUAGE.
I like coming into these threads as a CS major and wanting to kill myself because I barely understand what anyone is talking about
>nobody uses vscode anymore bro
My degree is fricking worthless
vscode is literally forced on almost everyone who wants to deal with Rust, javascript, typescript and probably a slew of other shit.
Not that it really matters. It's just a text editor and about as important to actually getting shit done as your PC being a few years old, unlikely to matter more than annoying you personally.
I'm in the same boat as you
what is taught in college classes seems completely different from what is used in the real world
dont worry about it, if youre competent then youll be adaptable to whatever tools that are used by whoever you work for. learn to solve problems and get some work under your belt
Everyone uses VSCode/Codium. Build something yourself and see if the tool works for you.
Go run your code with a single hotkey in Notepad or have a linter in your code.
>inb4 use Vim/Emacs/Nano
No thanks grandpa or zoomer that thinks wearing granny panties is cool. I'd rather use something helpful and doesn't require several years of use to become as useful as any other modern ide/editor.
Emacs is pretty useful straight away at most you have to change a few hotkeys.
And there's like a million modern alternatives to vscode that don't chug at 1gb files or think to run a linter analyzer on the entire thing when you make a single line change is smart.
>Emacs is pretty useful straight away at most you have to change a few hotkeys
Still not as useful as being able to use my mouse
>think to run a linter analyzer on the entire thing when you make a single line change is smart
Never happened to me. Change your linter rules. VS Code + Reshaper on the other hand is a massive pile of shit
>Never happened to me.
Try writing some trivial Rust code that relies on a so-called 'lightweight' framework while running the Rust-analyzer, which is more or less mandatory if you want to figure out what types they're pushing on you.
How large is this "trivial project"? If you're really that mad, disable it on save then. Or stop programming your billion LoC startup on a thin-client.
I've even had eslint run against hundreds of thousands of lines of fricking Typescript and didn't face an issue. Sounds like it's a (you) problem.
I.T. and Engineering is a garbage job nowadays and people should had learned that once the profession was banalized and ruined by java level morons and Oracle pajeets.
I was offered the studies once, but i quit the moment i saw the shitshow it was.
There it was ZERO C or any C++ there, not even the basics at all.
Back in the 90's people learned C thanks to quake 2 and Half Life
Even worse is that the studies for it shoves a ton of unnecessary crap early on instead of coding.
You will learn a ton of fricking math you will Never use in your life, even for basic physics coding.
>You will learn a ton of fricking math you will Never use in your life,
I had to relearn 2nd semester math because dsp signal processing was based on it. I was dead sure that I'll never have to actually use it.
I was coding from ground zero in my program, we went from Java to C++ in ~2 years of work. No idea where you were looking to go to school but I don't think it is representative of the average program. The reality is though is that all jobs are pretty ass now, the market is just in terrible shape all around for 4 year students. The whole "a masters is now a bachelors" thing isn't even a meme anymore, it is a reality.
>a masters is now a bachelors
Is this some joke I'm too European to understand?
it means even lowest coders need a master degree for interview.
>coders
Good thing I've an engineering degree
so why no one talks about EE? hardware engineer? They are paid less than software engineer but jobs are more stable.
Paid less? Just cause they don't jump on the fotm language like jabbascript?
Sure C/C++ embedded dev isn't the highest paying, but after a couple of years you'll get decent raises and won't let go since you're the only one understanding that piece of shit device
>Paid less? Just cause they don't jump on the fotm language like jabbascript?
real programmers not coders are usually specialists at algorithms or domain knowledges. such as data analysists.
Well that's basically the play now in America at least, you get a bachelors in CS and piss away another couple grand on a masters in computer engineering or some shit like that.
Yeah, basically the US education system in regards to higher education goes university (bachelors) > graduate school (masters)
americlaps basically forced every child to college
the supply of bachelors degrees goes up
employers no longer think you're special for going to college
now you have to get a masters to get a second look
the cycle repeats with masters degrees
pretty soon you'll need dual PhDs to be considered for a janitorial position
The entire "you need superior college graduation" to work became such a shitshow that even fricking burger king and mcdonalds are into this shit now
And it isn't a meme, they are forcing this everywhere to a point unemployment rates are skyrocketing fast, shit is literally a bubble ready to burst at any moment.
a shitshow at its finest when in the past university alone was enough to render a job and masters a optional if you wanted
guess who is behind rust
I think they mean the full Visual Studio and not VS Code, which isn't perfect but is overall pretty solid
I have 20 years of professional business software development experience, and I managed to write a memory leak in a nodejs service.
Banning good old languages isn't the fix The White House thinks it is.
memory leak as in growth that never gets cleaned up? garbage collected languages always do this because you end up having some sort of object that points to some previous version for one reason or another and then you end up collecting a long lineage of objects that the gc still thinks are all in use.
everything is written on C in some way, shape or form at this point, good luck getting rid of it.
this is what most people dont even understand. proportionally very few people even use C and C++, it's just the backbone for everything and even if it were actually necessary to move away from that itd take monstrous amounts of effort
>buffee overflows
what fricking jeetsafe playground language are they going to try and make us use. Even Python can cause memory leaks. Stg I hate joe Biden
Are they moronic?
Why not just force companies to not do shit browsers that use javascript or install Windows/OSX as default in computers?
Oh yeah because they cant spy on you
Why are you losers mad about this? People frick up. It's why you write test, have robust standards, and extensive testing. Majority of attacks are from memory mismanagement and that's not by accident.
Another issue is that in modern software development, almost all build on the backs of others. Are you aware of all the vulnerabilities for each of those libraries for your specific version? Can you migrate to a safer alternative?
If you tell me you're deeply intimate with every piece of code your code relies on you're either greater than Torvald or you've never built production software.
Use memory safe languages or risk writing unsafe code. Simple as.
>Use memory safe languages or risk writing unsafe code.
Except that's a case of you buying into marketing talk.
Memory "safe" languages are perfectly unsafe and have a million ways you can frick up in them.
If you actually wrote Rust code you'd know this as it becomes very obvious in embedded when you can't use anything out of the Rust standard library because it both allocates shit nonstop but also fundamentally relies on unsafe blocks throughout the entire thing to get anything done sensibly.
>Memory "safe" languages
That's C, if you code according to the misra standard
More guidelines than anything else and not all that great ones either. If it's between MISRA C and Rust i'd probably pick the latter even though I think regular C is vastly preferable to Rust for getting real work done.
>Memory "safe" languages are perfectly unsafe and have a million ways you can frick up in them.
Which is an order of magnitude less ways to frick up compared with a language with no (or not strictly required) safety features.
Think of it like this: you have two guns, one doesn't have a trigger guard and no safety, the other one is a normal gun. Which one are you more comfortable carrying around tucked in your pants next to your balls? The first one, right? After all you're careful and you know how guns work so there's no way you're going to have an accidental disch-ACK.
>Which is an order of magnitude less ways to frick up
Arguably.
I think it's quite a lot easier to frick up once you start involving traits personally.
I don't for a second think the average MS-jeet is going to do much better writing Rust code than they are doing writing C++ code.
all the restrictions either lead to crazy code or just using unsafe
More or less.
I tried writing some stuff using libraries that forced you to write type annotations when you used their code and you quickly got some crazy shit like
>thing<thing2<thing3::thing2<thing3::Setting, some_weird_thing::stuff, { similar repeated patterns like five times inbetween commas here } )> for a single struct and you had to figure out their lifetime and manually annotate that too.
Just completely nuts stuff and even just the first step would have been crazy without the rust-analyzer.
>Memory "safe" languages are perfectly unsafe and have a million ways you can frick up in them.
The number of CVEs and the languages they tie back to disagrees.
Sure I can concede that log4j existed but so did shellshock. By using a language that handles memory management for you, you reduce that vector. "Just git good" is also a pointless argument if you're trying to prove how you never got hurt juggling chainsaws.
>If you actually wrote Rust code...
Yeah I get it. You abuse no_std and unsafe. Still safer than C or C++. Those are intentional choices instead of pwning yourself because you decided to allocate memory.
>if someone writes something fricked up they deserve it
See my analogy above about chainsaws. Just because you're fine taking on a risk because you understand the pitfalls doesn't mean it should be condoned for others.
"C makes it easy to have a nice day in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off" - Bjarne
>writes a while loop that fricks everything up in literally any fricking language because youre a moronic jeet
yeah, Memory safe!
Rust is not a memory-safe language
I like their little crab fella.
allocating your own memory is always better
Honestly, they just need to hire better c programmers.