Epic has been offering up it's engines for people to use free of charge for a quarter of a century, it only takes a cut once you're a literal millionaire. That's about as good of a reputation as anyone could possibly have in the world of licensing game engines.
Yeah, just like fricking is Windows is done after they introduced the x-th anti-consumer anti0feature and everyone uses desktop Linux now. Surely the frog will jump out this time!
Sell it, drive it down really low so more people sell it at a much lower price, buy more of it so you gain more control and reverse course to get a bump and grow value before selling it at another high point.
The new CEO of Fedex just did this recently. And SEC will do nothing... spare maybe a slap on the wrist for a few hundred thousand for millions made.
They should just confiscate the stock instead if the whole thing was to increase control. As you say fines are useless but confiscating stock would go directly to the source
Isnt that exactly the thing that ruined the Canadian plane industry? Is not that also a trade law violation?
Like, you do this and if it goes horribly then you might need a federal bailout, right? But what if they dont bail them out? What if literally everyone else buys up the penny stocks and the CEO loses his majority shares to a bunch of AIs and Robin Hood proud boys?
There's a proper procedure for buying and selling shares of your own company
He's been selling part of his shares the whole year, it's highly unlikely that he planned some market manipulation scheme with this
>He's been selling part of his shares the whole year, it's highly unlikely that he planned some market manipulation scheme with this
Planned buying/selling of shares is the biggest fricking crock of shit ever, it's meant to circumvent insider trading laws, but when you're the one deciding the direction and actions of the company your trades might be public, but your company actions aren't until they fricking happen.
For all intents and purposes it's still insider trading because you're positioning yourself financially to take advantage of things only you know about because you're the one doing them.
Exactly. It's one thing for an employee/executive to plan to sell their shares a year before, but then a week after the date they find out that the CEO decided to do some stupid bullshit that will tank the stock prices. The other it's when it's the CEO himself who knows exactly when he'll do the bullshit
8 months ago
Anonymous
>thing that will increase the company's revenue will tank the stock price
mongoloid
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Announce news >Everybody shit on it >Fear causes people to stop buying >Some moron started selling >Chain reaction and everybody starts selling
It's not even the first time this kind of shit happens.
It will eventually bounce back though, so definitely buy the dip.
8 months ago
Anonymous
retail plebs aren't moving the market
8 months ago
Anonymous
If it kills their rep and drives away future business, which it looks set to, yeah.
8 months ago
Anonymous
All the big chink mobile games (i.e. the top earners) are based on unity and they won't go anywhere because of a small fee
The small time indie developers are meaningless in the big picture
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Westoids ruin their own vidya industry. >They try to take a slice of the gacha money pie. >They end up nuking their entire indie industry in the process, trust included, because nobody sane would use unity even after the backpedaling. >They still had to backpedal anyway so even on a best case scenario they will barely make any more money from gacha games in unity as they do now. >Even worse, most gacha use a special proprietary fork of unity so different from unity itself that it now legally counts as it's own engine in both japan and china so the really big gacha doesn't have to pay shit to unity either way.
Why are westoids so fricking stupid?
8 months ago
Anonymous
Most indie games aren't selling enough to get past the threshold for the fee
This feels like a huge nothing burger
8 months ago
Anonymous
>he doesn't understand trust
lmfao, do better shill
8 months ago
Anonymous
Most of these gays will stop caring when they realize they won't be affected lol
8 months ago
Anonymous
Depends on the indie, maybe it'll sell like shit at launch but eventually get popular (this is literally what happened with Among us)
Either way its not even about the money relatively speaking. Why the frick you would be willing to work with a company that will frick you over for a few extra cents more?
8 months ago
Anonymous
Because the engine itself is still good and nobody is going to bother investing their time into learning a different engine when they realize they will never sell enough to be affected by the fee
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Good >Unity
Kek, Unity is bloatware in engine form.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah I meant "good" as in easy to learn and use
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Because the engine itself is still good
hahahahahaha
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Because the engine itself is still good
Unity has literally never been good, not even Unity developers would claim that.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Unity is not good though. The only reason why anybody used it was because it's free and easy to learn. There's a lot of engines that are better than it could ever hope to be and don't have a 1/10th of the current israeliteery.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>There's a lot of engines that are better than it could ever hope to be
name them
>Because the engine itself is still good
I've nevre played a Unity game that didn't turn my computer into a space heater.
8 months ago
Anonymous
you have a shit computer or you're lying.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Okay so the only Unity game I've ever played (I think) is My Time At Portia, so it was probably the chinks doing it.
8 months ago
Anonymous
It says a lot that even unity devs won't use their own engine.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>>Even worse, most gacha use a special proprietary fork of unity so different from unity itself that it now legally counts as it's own engine in both japan and china
Which one?
8 months ago
Anonymous
Mihoyo's games at least do
8 months ago
Anonymous
Nah, I mean which fork. I want in.
8 months ago
Anonymous
yeah im with that other anon.
i want the waifunity engine.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Mihoyo's games at least do
Based. I hope we get more Genshin waifus forever.
Frick unity.
8 months ago
Anonymous
The westoid game industry lost all its talent around 15-20 years ago. It drove it away by paying shit wages and pushing for divershitty hires. Turns out letting "minorities" get CS degrees by allowing them to bypass difficult courses results in shit engineers.
Back when I worked at Ubisoft we had a period, once per year, where we could buy and sell shares from the company. Aside from that period you couldn't move it at all.
It's not
The only reason people found out about it is because he's been following the SEC rules where you have to file a form when you do legit insider trading
Insider trading doesn't refer to people on the actual inside. They're allowed to trade their stock based on what they know. But if the CEO is suddenly dumping all their stock it should be obvious to the market something is up even if they don't know exactly what.
>this is illegal.
In theory yes but he probably will hide behind something like "selling was long term planed while this change we just came up recently with".
Damn I genuinely wanted to try bank rupting a small time dev by reinstalling continuously.
I guess I could still do it via IP switching and doing a fresh install of some super lightweight Linux to trick the system, but that doesn't seem scalability into anything other than annoyance
Uh they do. The thing is most of them will buy and sell their own stock regularly so just going dump/pump based on what they do is basically pointless for a retail investor
We can see on crunchbase that Sequoia Capital has invested about 20 times more than anyone else in unity technologies. As the world’s most prominent venture-capital firm, Sequoia capital is plenty Zionist. They have vast connections to the PayPal sphere of online control, and are responsible for the new silicon valley in Tel Aviv. Since they opened their Israeli branch 22 years ago, they've invested in at least 169 startups over there.
>Italian, but "Riccitiello" basically means "with extremely curly hair", so one of his ancestors was probably a merchant >it's real
My fricking sides. >This name comes from the Italian word "ricco" meaning "curly." The name most likely referred to someone with curly hair.
>This name comes from the Italian word "ricco"
Actually from the word "riccio" (curly). "Ricco" in italian means rich. So the words for "curly" and "rich" sound extremely similar in italian, I wonder what this could mean
They are done. No dev will ever use Unity again, when Unreal Engine 5 has a top reputation and can do everything what Unity can.
this.
If they can just say "fu we're changing the rules and you will say thank you" any time they want, why would I want to spend a year or two developing a project on their platform?
They already broke all trust and barriers. All games made in the past will be subject to this new policy with very little exemptions.
There's clearly no standards for this company and there's no more trust.
They israelite'd too hard.
Riccitiello is from Pennsylvania, you dolt. He's probably Italian given that last name.
When will you people learn that these behaviors are learned, not genetic? You don't have to be one of God's chosen people to be this horrible. Anyone can do it if they want.
>Riccitiello is from Pennsylvania, you dolt. He's probably Italian given that last name.
did this guy do something else fairly recently? i feel like i saw this exact same exchange about something else, maybe something microsoft related?
>did this guy do something else fairly recently? i feel like i saw this exact same exchange about something else, maybe something microsoft related?
There's this, though it's from last year.
Did you forgot they fused with a literal mossad spyware&malware company last year?
Take a wild guess about how hard it will be to track "first" install when the engine come packaged with a full set of surveillance tools.
I like the "Demos mostly won't trigger fees," like they aren't even sure themselves. How will they know it's a demo and not a full game? Some code that lists that it's a a demo an exempt? Couldn't you just use that for the full game instead? Unless there is active spyware, how would they be able to tell the difference?
Microsoft has a team specialized on unreal: sea of thieves, gears, hifi rush, etc. They even done porting of pubg, published some free plugins. They might need Unity as already existed userbase of indie devs but not as an engine
That's not how it works, Microsoft doesn't have a team specific for one engine and sure they don't care about indies.
Why don't they sell themselves to Microsoft?
Microsoft really needs an engine that works, not the Bethesda creation engine shit.
Studios at Microsoft already have a their own engine like the Forzaengine and such. Microsoft doesn't really need to buy unity. They can literally make their own if they want because they are a software company after all.
Microsoft most likely bought-out Bethesda and Activision with the intention of utilizing programmer talent from id, Bethesda, Infinity Ward, and Treyarch to create a modern next-gen version of id Tech to compete with Unreal Engine like the good old days, especially since current id Tech and the CoD engine share common lineage and structure. [spoilers]At-least, that's what they would do if they were smart.[/spoilers]
Classic strategy of first proposing something completely insane, and after facing backlash pretend to backpedal to whatever shitty thing you actually wanted to do.
It's too late. This kind of attempt at a retroactive shakedown completely kills any trust. Why take the risk of using Unity if they might attempt something similar/worse in future?
we won guys we defeated capitalism
Oh wait they knew this was going to happen and got exactly what they wanted it out of it
The overton window was moved you stupid morons
First you lay on the table some outrageous terms so that the terms you actually want dont look as bad later when you "backpedal"
Every moron npc on planet America already knows about the overton window and "face in the door" since 2016, you are not special for bringing it up, you're just fricking annoying like you're expecting kudos for pointing out the color of the sky. Go away.
Do you seriously think the public is who is making choices on using Unity, a fricking game dev engine?
It's a niche market and they just ruined all trust and credibility. The only potentially "intelligent" move in here is the CEO insider trading stock before tanking the value of the company, and making it more enticing for a bigger company to buy it (and him) out.
Unity is removing the Plus subscription, which was the "basic" paid option at like $700 a year.
Pro is the next level up, which will now be the default paid option, at like $2000 a year.
As a balance to this, they're removing the requirement they had before to use a paid license at all. Before, all companies making enough profit thresholds HAD to upgrade. But now you can stay free no matter your profits.
Also to play into this change, this new Install Fee is a flat 20 cents for free users that pass the thresholds while Pro and higher licenses get an increasingly discounted fee (like it goes down the more installs they get)
>paint it in a good light
I literally just explained subjective facts about the situation. If you think that's painting it in a good light, you're the weirdo thinking these changes are good.
Charging the developer for installs is extremely evil and greedy. They should be tarred and feathered for even proposing this, and if people were smart it would permanently ruin their reputation.
Propose it? They're still going through with it, just trying to make it not sound as bad when the only way they could know what an "initial" install happens is if they fingerprint the computer of everyone who's ever played a unity game, which is a huge privacy invasion, and that's still not counting installing it on another device you own.
>valve doesn't provide unity with data on "first installations" >unity can only seethe and whine >if unity bans games on its engine from going on steam they go bankrupt immediately
lol
Imagine if you were a business and said you were going to change ALL your contracts after the fact. >so these developers made this game 10 years ago >"yes" >and release it >""yes" >but you said they owe you a millionty dollars in charges & fees you just implemented yesterday? >"yes"
>>but you said they owe you a millionty dollars in charges & fees you just implemented yesterday? >>"yes"
this is not happening with the new unity pricing plan, moron. read the fricking info before spewing dumb bullshit.
the real israeliteery is their vague "tracking" of installs, along with dropping this new shit with a 3 months notice
they were also caught bundling adware with unity a few years back if i recall correctly (or something to that effect), so im not surprised. really fishy. almost like some one infiltrated their company just to kill it
>unity makes money hand over fist without changing a single thing about their product or service
How many times has unity been in the news over the past few years because they were laying people off?
And free PR?
fricking lol
I wouldn't want to be chained to an engine with contracts as schizophrenic as unity.
>Free PR
What PR? "Hey, this company tried to scam the frick out of everybody until people yelled at them". That PR? A lot of people already didn't have a favorable view on Unity long before this fiasco and this just made it infinitely worse.
There really is no coming back from "hey we're going to start charging you everytime someone installs your game". Even if they walk the whole thing back, the fact they even went this far is enough. Unity went from boiling the frog slowly to just taking a torch to it.
I still don't know how they planned on doing that. What about games running on versions of the engine so old that they don't include the Unity analytics?
They said they have a super accurate proprietary model that super accurately predicts installs (they can't tell you how it works though, but trust them, it's super accurate)
there is no PR team on the planet that can salvage a company that said "we are going to charge you for everything you've ever done". it's fricking over
>wow unity really listened to us bros 🙂 >Indie devs will cheer and run free PR for Unity
In reality indie devs are now sharing resources for how to jump ship from Unity.
How many times do you think this link has been posted today on the Unity forums?
So am I the only one that sees this as part of some greater scheme? Maybe it's as simple as them trying to make as much money while they burn it all down but there's no way they think charging per install and automatically moving devs to a much more expensive subscription is legitimately a good idea.
No, I don't think it's that. This latest one is so egregious, any dev using unity would be moronic if they're not thinking of how to best move to something else.
What are going to move to? >Godot
Dead in the water >Unreal
Too expensive without publisher support >Custom
They wouldn't be using Unity in the first place if this was an option
>unreal >too expensive
Why are there so many morons living in a different world? You pay $0 to epic unless your project earns over $1 million, then they ask for 5% royalties. It has been like this since the early days of ue4
If I was indie deving I sure as frick would switch to Unreal or Godot right now. Unity can and will frick you whenever they want and there isn't anything you can do about it.
I've been saying it for years now that Godot will be the engine of choice for indie devs. It's becoming the Blender equivalent in its' field. All it's doing is getting bigger and better and the community has been growing at an explosive rate compared to its slow growth in the past.
Unity games have had telemetry for the longest time. That's why you're suppose to block pirated games in your firewall.
https://docs.unity.com/ugs/manual/analytics/manual/overview
Well, I'm too deep into the project to turn back now. Oh well, I never intended for it to make money or get more than 500 players anyways. Glad I'm not trying to make this hobby a career, lol.
>Buy copy of your game. >Write script that installs it on new VMs over and over. >let it run for months. >laugh as you have to now prove to Poppa Unity that the bad Ganker man did it and you don't owe him $50k in Install Fees.
You are a literal buffoon if you don't jump ship. You'll be the real, living, breathing, paypiggy. Oink Oink
>oy vey you need to pay me my install fees
oh yeah, where's your proof? >well.. uh, I have this number in my machine that only I can see and control.. s-so you h-have to pay!
Let's see how many 'initial' installations they get once the scene groups figure out what API had to get called lmao. Not feeling sorry for any of these scumbags, game devs deserve to bleed like pigs.
He's been a greedy homosexual his entire life and has kept getting CEO positions time and time again. He must suck dick real fricking good or he makes companies so much money they turn a blind eye no matter how hard he fricks the companies reputation. He himself may not be a israelite but he's absolutely an honorary israelite.
Yeah but I'm really not seeing it with Rigatoni here. Like Kotick gets away with anything because he makes money but Rigatoni has had nothing but failure.
remember when they said torrenting games cost people money? well now that's literally true. >torrent game of company you hate >make script to mass install/uninstall it >they go bankrupt
Their backpedal proposal was their initial plan all along. In the end they will profit from this either way. Let's see how adamant devs really are to move to another platform after this lmfao
>first the "pirate it till they bankrupt" meme becomes real >now the "piccolo dick meme" also becomes real (at least for developers)
The memepocalypse is here. Can't wait to see consolewartards whiiiirr each other in real life
Because originally Unity took a $0.20 cut every single time the game was INSTALLED, not every time it was purchased. Valve don't charge an installation fee to devs.
>sell $20 game >valve takes $6 cut >unity takes a $0.20 cut
>sell $1 game >valve takes $0.30 cut >unity takes a $0.20 cut
>sell $1 game at 50% off >valve takes $0.15 cut >unity takes a $0.20 cut
the problem is that this is a flat rate, plus valve takes its cut ONCE, when you sell a copy, Unity wants to charge you every single time the game is installed
valve: provides a game hosting, distribution, and discussion service >unity: "you owe us 20 cents for every install because... uh... YOU JUST DO OK?!?!? I DONT CARE IF YOU ALREADY PAID FOR A UNITY PLUS LICENSE I WANT MORE MONEY!!!"
Every celebrating this, always remember, it wasn't JUST Horse Armor.
Having this fee at all, even if it's toned down from its initial offer, will only lead to worse slippery slope that ALWAYS negatively affects consumers.
At this point it looks likely that I will be quitting vidya no matter what happens. If some baseddevs ' dream get crushed in the process that's just a bonus.
Every single time a company backpedals like this they just wait for the initial rage to die down and do it anyways. Stay far away from Unity unless they fire every single person involved in this decision and issue a public apology with a promise to never ever do it in the future.
I imagine once this shit actually goes live a shitload of code monkeys are gonna start working to figure out what mixture of hardware identifiers need to be changed to count as a "unique" install.
Yep, pretty sure we are hearing about this the same time the devs are. CEOs vomit out terrible ideas and are expecting everyone else to pick up the slack
No need. A TPM is all they need. Any 7th gen israelitetel Core CPU and Ryzen 2000 series CPU and higher has fTPM. I'm sure they'll flip the switch when W10 bites the dust.
This goes live at the start of January yeah?
There's still gonna be plenty of W10 installs without TPM in a couple months.
And before you say "it'll be tied to the account that bought it", how many Unity games are on GoG?
There has to be *something* on your PC to identify that a game has previously been installed. That something can inevitably be spoofed or deleted. There is simply no foolproof way to verify "initial installs."
I've been reading the Unity staff's posts on their forums
It appears they have NOTHING in place for this planned change yet
Anything is viable is viable until further notice
They'd have to fingerprint your system and create a unique identifier to keep track of that, which is far more of a privacy invasion than just looking at the os and gpu you're using.
>Unity is already backpedaling lol
They planned to "backpedal" the exact moment they announced it you fricking SHITWIT. >tell the world you are going to something absolutely completely bugfrick insane >people freak out at how insane your claims are >"we've heard your feedback, and have listened. rather than fricking everyone in the ass with a 12 inch rusty barbed dildo, we will make sure the dildo is sanitized as to not cause tetanus" >public relaxes and accepts offer that is still insane because at least it wasn't the original plan
moronic conspiracy nonsense. This isn't some cheap consumer good that people buy because they want it and will put up with bullshit for it.
This a business partnership that developers are investing years of work into, where one party just proved they can't be trusted at all because they will retroactively try to frick the other parties in the ass. The public having a short attention span doesn't matter. The public doesn't even know what the frick a game engine is or does, just look at all the midwits crying about creation engine.
it's called the "foot in the door" method, and it works on normies hook line and sinker every single time. it's how your grandma ended up with a piece of shit vacuum in the 70s.
This. They're doing the typical >we're going to frick you in the ass raw >wait no we heard your concerns and we've reconsidered >we're going to drop our plans. instead of fricking your ass raw, we'll wear protection!
and pretending they did you a favor when they're still ravaging your ass anyway.
moronic conspiracy nonsense. This isn't some cheap consumer good that people buy because they want it and will put up with bullshit for it.
This a business partnership that developers are investing years of work into, where one party just proved they can't be trusted at all because they will retroactively try to frick the other parties in the ass. The public having a short attention span doesn't matter. The public doesn't even know what the frick a game engine is or does, just look at all the midwits crying about creation engine.
>he thinks conspiracy means false
read a dictionary you fricking ignoramus
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/riccitiello-developers-who-push-back-against-monetisation-are-pure-brilliant-and-fricking-idiots
here's ricitello being a total fricking moron. >"Devs who push back against monetisation can be “brilliant” but also “fricking idiots"” >"He added that he's seen great games fail because their compulsion loop should have been tuned to an hour, rather than two minutes. The difference between a smash hit and a failure can be this tuning around monetisation and attrition."
So ricitello is every bit as stupid, shortsighted and useless as everyone might suspect. He is a blithering fricking idiot.
>They probably are not going to pay Unity.
Neither are Nintendo or any of the other big names, if they have to go to court they will, and unity is going to get hit for trying to change a contract after the fact.
These changes do not apply to the industry license version of Unity which pretty much all the big names are going to use. This is just for the small companies and hobbyists that don't fork out a $5k yearly subscription fee per employee to use the engine like the big names do.
>yes they do moron
I wouldn't call him a moron, he probably had some sort of faith left that the Unity morons couldn't possibly be that stupid, too bad for him they're even dumber than he thought.
This licensing option is not listed there for a reason.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Profits from most Unity games don't exceed the license cost
8 months ago
Anonymous
It's honestly impressive that Timmy Tim basically hasn't said a word about this whole debacle. You'd think he'd take this opportunity to market the shit out of Unreal
>Doesn't realize that big corps would get contracts that are not open to the public and would never be listed to keep an air of "fairness" and "transparency". >Thinks Nintendo or Tecent would be paying any sort of per install fee based on that chart and not just a "Per Unit Sold based on our Numbers not yours you little Unity b***h".
They will already have their own corporate contracts with Unity as the little b***h in the relationship. This is Unity trying to make b***hes out of the indy dev's who can't bite back.
Well, a few of the listed could buy out Unity and not flinch, especially at current stock prices, and with this mess most stockholders are probably looking to sell.
In fact there are 3 possibilities of why they are doing this.
1. Desperate for quick cash grab.
2. Trying to drive down the stock right after selling a lot of shares by the CEO so they can buy back the stock at the lower value and consolidate ownership. As someone already pointed out Fedex's CEO did that just recently.
3. They sold off a chunk of shares just in case and are wanting to lower the cost so someone will buy them out of a hole they see in the future, knowing that for some studio's of the games listed, rely on the tool and may being willing to buy it up at a discount.
>2. Trying to drive down the stock right after selling a lot of shares by the CEO so they can buy back the stock at the lower value and consolidate ownership. As someone already pointed out Fedex's CEO did that just recently.
Not likely. That's a crime and, as we all know, the justice system is swift and harsh when it comes to white collar crime. Not worth the risk.
Yes, that's why SEC did nothing to Fedex last year when the CEO drove down the stock from $300 to $126 and did a massive buy back before changing the outlook forcast.
>Why not just do a royalty percentage instead of this "per install" bullshit
They want to tap into the mobile games developer's income streams, decided they weren't getting their fair share.
>Sooooooo why not just do a royalty percentage? In app purchases count as game-generated revenue
Not if you don't count it the same, think real israeli about this and sell it as "merch".
>Unreal has no problem collecting microtransactions as part of their revenue cut, what's the specific problem here?
Unreal probably had a proper lawyer go over their shit, if were going by how unity is attempting to do this they probably should've hired one.
I don't understand, them getting a 1% of the profits after the $200k likely wouldn't be a problem and probably easier to do.
Why did they have to be so greedy to burn the bridges by charging a fixed amount for an amount that can possibly accumulate do infinite while still not generating revenue?
>be unity CEO >sell all my stock in advance of making an obvious bonehead move that will cause stock price to tank >go through with bonehead move >shares tank >buy up previously sold shares for cheap >pocket the difference >reverse bonehead maneuver. publicly release "I'm sorry, we'll do better" statement. >stock price recovers
So does nobody else seem to be concerned over the fact that this engine has backdoor rootkit spyware that's capable of monitoring every single time a game using this engine is installed on any computer anywhere in the world?
>backdoor rootkit spyware
You have no idea what any of those words mean. But yes, everyone's aware of ironSource and Unity collecting data. It's just that none of it is new.
Literally the ONLY thing that might regain some modicum of trust is to fire John homietello.
If I'm a mid sized/big developer why the frick would I keep working with a company that does such asinine bullshit? Look at this homosexual
Godot is not a replacement for Unity. It has nowhere near the feature set. The commies acting like it is are just doing their typical "NOW IS THE TIME FOR OPEN SOURCE TO REIGN SUPREME!" bullshit they always do whenever something goes slightly wrong with some commercial software. It never plays out the way they expect.
Blender's okay, but I still prefer Maya. May just be because it's the first I learned but I just feel like it lets you do way more stuff without restrictions.
>sell games
Anon if you ever plan to release your unity projects for free you might still get tagged if it gets past 200k installs.
It's 200k USD in revenue in the last 12 months (plus 100k installs) to trigger the threshold
Impossible for a free project to ever be charged like this
Specifically it's BOTH. >200k lifetime installs AND $200k revenue in last 12 months
Free devs are entirely clear of this from the revenue threshold. They aren't looking to charge cheap fricks that don't have money, they only wanna target the ones they know have already made a profit they can start stealing from.
>3ds Max
who the frick is still using max? indians? autodesk abandoned that shit so long ago
8 months ago
Anonymous
What are you talking about? Autodesk does yearly released of 3ds max. It's still a very widely used product.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>What are you talking about?
my job experience, just because there is a new number at the end of a release it doesn't mean they added anything to it, its the same with mudbox, who the frick would use that over zbrush?
I don't know a single person who still uses Max, but I know plenty of maya and blender, users its just abandoned.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Last time I checked it still had a crash when you use a graphic tablet for skin weights paint like in 2012 version
No game should be generating cache files gigabytes in size. And they should be clearing their cache as part of shutdown procedures, not uninstallation procedures.
I just had a look at my own AppData folder and it was a few GBs but the vast majority of that was taken up by just two different versions of their compiler being stored there for some reason.
I'm really wondering how someone will actually defend the idea of getting charged per install no matter how old your game is and pretend it's actually good for devs in the long run because you're gonna have to pull some major bullshit to get away with making THAT sound good on paper
Even if they retract absolutely eveything and say it was just a prank bro, no sane dev is going to put their game on unity ever again
it's like building your new house on sand
It's 200k USD in revenue in the last 12 months (plus 100k installs) to trigger the threshold
Impossible for a free project to ever be charged like this
But if you sell your game for a very low price or otherwise earn little money per install (e.g. for free to play games) you could find yourself hitting the threshold and all of a sudden owing literally millions of dollars
>owing literally millions of dollars
Where are you getting that math?
It's 20 cents per install. 1/5th of a dollar. To owe millions you'd have to have 5 million installs (plus 200k I guess since the fee applies to installs AFTER both thresholds are met).
If you have some shitty mobile game that's somehow making enough microtransaction revenue to hit $200k and be downloaded 5 million times after, I'd really like to know what this game is.
Go read through the Unity forums right now. there are companies that have 40 million + installs of mobile games, but have negative income as a result of operating costs (but still generate over 200k in sales), and now would in theory owe Unity $8,000,000 on top of their negative income kek
8 months ago
Anonymous
The fee only applies to new installs once the thing starts and you hit the thresholds.
If you're hosting some mobile game at a loss and you hit the fee threshold and start getting charged with it on top, I'm pretty sure most people would just pull their game from the app store to stop future installs. Not sure why they wouldn't have done that before if they're operating at such a huge loss already.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>charges more the worse a game does
Isn't that counterproductive? Literally the opposite of Unreal
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Isn't that counterproductive?
Yes. Everything about what Unity is proposing is counter intuitive, convoluted and just complicating everything massively leaving the whole thing wide open for corruption.
>only the initial installation
Why even bother at that point? This is just another sales tax since # of installs will be equal to (or lower) than # of sales. Might as well just charge $0.2 per copy sold and call it a day rather than overcomplicating shit with install tracking and having to make exceptions for a bunch of edge cases and shit. Unless, of course, this is just a first step and they plan to slowly move back to their initial proposal in the end.
>Unless, of course, this is just a first step and they plan to slowly move back to their initial proposal in the end.
Bingo. ~~*They*~~ can easily manipulate the number of installs. ~~*They*~~ literally just found a way to control and artificially inflate "not-sales numbers" and charge developers for them with no recourse and no accountability whatsoever.
>make shitpost game, put it up for a dollar >get a couple thousand off of it >"alright cool" >forget about it >youtuber plays it >wonder why you've been getting more money in your bank account >dont really care, you need that money because the economy has gone to shit and its helping you keep a roof over your head. >suddenly, bank statement from unity demanding 40k
Anon, he knows that. He was making a sarcastic joke about how indie shit blows up all the time, often times out of nowhere. This whole talking point about how "Oh devs will never hit the threshold", while true, is not worth the risk. A game you made in a weekend could suddenly reach mainstream popularity because some popular YouTuber played it once. It's more likely than you think.
8 months ago
Anonymous
oh no i run the risk of some streamer and zoomer kids buying my game and giving me money
8 months ago
Anonymous
reminder that once you're over the earning threshold any random idiot can spam installs and completely nuke your earnings. because they are autistic and dont like what the kids like.
8 months ago
Anonymous
And that's my problem how?
8 months ago
Anonymous
>"its not my problem if some guy spams 100 fresh installs a second with a bot and steals all my money"
8 months ago
Anonymous
It isn't, because i'm not a moronic dev who can't be arsed to code his own engine.
8 months ago
Anonymous
show me your engine then, homosexual.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I don't dwell my works with mere peasants.
8 months ago
Anonymous
It's still in development.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Unless you're eric barone or something, nobody cares.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Don't worry, ~~*TPMs*~~ will save the day!
8 months ago
Anonymous
People keep saying this, but honestly it's not the real problem.
Pretty sure Unity will have a way to tell if some game suddenly had a GIANT spike in installs. Even if you're spoofing location, hardware, IP, everything, there's probably going to be a way for devs to send a thing disputing the charge by going "hey, the game only sold this many and we somehow had 100x the installs, that's not right".
The real issue is the pirating community as a whole here. They're much more likely to up the install count in a slow and hard to track way, eating up additional income slowly. That's the kinda stuff where Unity will probably go "oh sorry, we can't do anything about that, you should have had better anti-piracy measures."
THat's probably the whole point of this focus on Installs: it means that they can blame Pirates for taking a little bit more than they say they will here. But they're not going to just try and take EVERYTHING and ignore an obvious botting case.
8 months ago
Anonymous
a israelite wrote this
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Isn't that counterproductive?
Yes. Everything about what Unity is proposing is counter intuitive, convoluted and just complicating everything massively leaving the whole thing wide open for corruption.
[...] >Unless, of course, this is just a first step and they plan to slowly move back to their initial proposal in the end.
Bingo. ~~*They*~~ can easily manipulate the number of installs. ~~*They*~~ literally just found a way to control and artificially inflate "not-sales numbers" and charge developers for them with no recourse and no accountability whatsoever.
>moron doesn't understand how a SERVICE works
Not feeling so hot about ~~*SaaS*~~ when you get burned by it, eh you c**ts? Hopefully this teaches devs that ~~*SaaS*~~ is cancer.
Captcha STDWD
watching whitoids and shit skins try so hard to deflect this is hilarious. we know what you're doing and you couldn't be more obvious.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Why did you even quote me you israelite apologist? SaaS is cancer and you can't deny it.
8 months ago
Anonymous
SHUT UP AND HAND OVER YOUR MONEY NOW!!!!!
8 months ago
Anonymous
Keep in mind that it's Unity that does the tracking based on what I'm reading. So, unless they give developers ways to look at the numbers they're generating, you'd have to hope that Unity actually does their due diligence, and does their best to cull the false reports. Currently, there is no guarantee they will, and depending on how they actually go about tracking installs, it may not even be possible. We just don't know, unless Unity specifically gives us all the technical details.
I'm pointing out the israelite tactic here.
They're sneaky for a reason. They're not going to try and accept botting shit and take MILLIONS at once. That's too obvious. They'll certainly crack down on any blatant botting numbers. >Your game has 1000x installs compared to purchases? Oh of course we won't charge you THAT much, let's just use our backend magic and cut that down... >See, the real number is more like 5x installs to purchases, you can pay that, of course, right? 🙂
The point is they're clearly aiming for pirating numbers instead and insist on taking those hundreds or thousands monthly. That's the israelite way. >Your game installed 3x more than purchases? Why, goyim, that could be from anything really, right?
8 months ago
Anonymous
is unity the first company to try and profit off of pirates?
8 months ago
Anonymous
Keep in mind that it's Unity that does the tracking based on what I'm reading. So, unless they give developers ways to look at the numbers they're generating, you'd have to hope that Unity actually does their due diligence, and does their best to cull the false reports. Currently, there is no guarantee they will, and depending on how they actually go about tracking installs, it may not even be possible. We just don't know, unless Unity specifically gives us all the technical details.
8 months ago
Anonymous
if it's a free game though you really are running a huge risk.
too many installs and suddenly that free game is costing you a shitload.
8 months ago
Anonymous
It needs to cross a revenue threshold
A free game can't incur these fees in the way they described
>make game >don't pay the leeches a cent >get sued >tell them to get fricked >lose or win, still don't pay the israelites a cent
lmao what are they going to fricking do about it lol?
>company announces big controversial change which is bound to produce complains >uproar from userbase >company surprised >company backpaddles left and right
Why does this happen so often nowadays?
Because they are detached from each others too much.
Politicians nowadays don't even live a single peasant life.
They don't have to worry about money, healthcare, or even public transport being absolute shit.
So, why would you count on them to solve those issues, when they don't even understand the issue at all?
Same for businesses nowadays.
moron that don't develop games and don't even play games are in charge of the whole business related to gaming.
Why would they make good decisions that benefits the product?
>make game >call it a paid demo >free money
Demos still get hit with the install fee. BUT, you could in theory just de-list and re-release the same game with a different name before it hits revenue thresholds/install thresholds repeatedly.
Of course not
They can't even answer how the install data is gathered yet
The CEO literally came in stinking of jagermeister, threw the half empty bottle at the nearest intern and screamed that he wanted to frick a lot of people at once
>specifically says devs are not on the hook for game pass >didn't say there are no fees for gamepass games
that kinda implies microsoft will have to pay them
>be indiedev >live in constant fear of passing the cursed 200k threshold
truly, this is hell
i wonder how many cheap and obscure unity games will get a sudden "boost" in sales and installs
Imagine making a game so offensive to conservative snowflakes and then psyoping an advertisement campaign on /misc/ to make them buy it in protest/boycott because its made in unity.
Once it's close to 200,000 take it off the market and cash in on your profits :^)
They've already crushed all trust in them. They're still trying to make things worse and the fact that they tried to strongarm this at all knowing how much power they have over this market means they could easily try to ease right back into it by boiling the frog. I sincerely hope devs start looking for other options.
Fricking 'indiedevs' should learn how to fricking code their own engines, quirky 2d turn based RPG that is secretly about depression doesn't need fricking unity and im tired of all the shitty assetflips and low effort 2.5d platformers with no soul because someone watched a tutorial on how to make castlevania in unity and added their half cooked sprites to a bunch of levels made out of unity asset store prefabs
Here's the example Unity themselves used on their site explaining the change: >For example, let’s look at a hypothetical game made by a team using Unity Pro with the following revenue and install numbers: >Revenue from last 12 months - $2M USD >Lifetime installs - 5M >The Unity Runtime Fee will apply to this game, as it surpasses the $1M revenue and 1M lifetime install thresholds for Unity Pro. >Let’s look at the game’s installs from the last month: >Prior month installs (Standard fee countries) - 200K >Prior month installs (Emerging market fee countries) - 100K >The fee for install activity is $23.5K USD, calculated as follows: >(100K x $0.15 (first tier for standard fee countries)) + (100K x $0.075 (second tier for standard fee countries)) + (100K x $0.01 (fee for emerging market countries)) = $23.5K USD
Of course, for the Personal (free) license it's a flat 20 cent fee. So in that case if you had 300k installs in that last week, you'd be charged $60k for that month in fees.
Overall, I think the safest bet would be to just raise any game price on Unity by like, $1. That'd account for 5 installs per purchase which would probably break you even if you're doing well enough to pass their thresholds to trigger the fee.
Yeah, needs some major safety to ensure there's no spoofing issues.
But most people would only ever install once. So if you're upping the cost by 5x the expected installs ($1), then you have a 5x(number of normal people) install buffer that'll give room to notice any spoofing BS and report it.
Now, if that setup can account for the amount of pirates is a whole other ballpark.
Yeah, with pirates in the worst case the best you can do is hope that the pirates disable the telemetry or DRM in the executables they share around. If they don't, and Unity doesn't account for the possibility of pirates, then it's going to be royally fricked.
What fees are there? I keep seeing people claim there's other fees but I can't find info on them specifically.
The only extra fee I've seen is the license cost itself.
Before all this, you HAD to get a Plus license ($700+ a year) if your company made $100k in profit, or a Pro license ($2000+ a year) if you made $200k in profit.
Supposedly, with this change, they're removing Plus as an option but also removing that requirement. So I think this is now the only true fee for free users. And that's why they make it lower for Pro and Enterprise accounts, as a way to incentivize putting in that $2k/month subscription to avoid like over 50% of the install fee.
My point from the previous shit flinging with you apologist morons still stands. ALL Unity games are compromised because they're phoning home to register UUIDs to track this shit. They're sending YOUR data to their servers regardless of whether the dev knew it or not. If you have a Unity game on your PC you effectively have SPYWARE on your system RIGHT NOW!
do you use linux? if not, your data has been sold.
have you ever used any google owned site? if so, your data has been sold.
ever downloaded a game of chinese origin? data sold.
any kind of modern anticheat? believe it or not, data sold.
>Unity could alter the terms and services and force every dev to pay them 1 million dollars flat and they can frick their wives and they legally can't do anything about it
What a scummy company.
>we can do it because we say so! What? You're not from the blessed country of US with A? You're from a country where big corporations have some limits and can't do everything they want? Doesn't matter, sorry!
This is so moronic. I hope they get destroyed in courtrooms all over the world
>This is so moronic. I hope they get destroyed in courtrooms all over the world
Oh don't worry about it they're gonna get destroyed in the united states. The courts do not like debt traps, and I don't know what lawyer they went to speak with about not falling afoul of other countries protections against predatory contracts but whoever he is they should fire him.
>moron doesn't understand how a SERVICE works
Not feeling so hot about ~~*SaaS*~~ when you get burned by it, eh you c**ts? Hopefully this teaches devs that ~~*SaaS*~~ is cancer.
Captcha STDWD
>we can do it because we say so! What? You're not from the blessed country of US with A? You're from a country where big corporations have some limits and can't do everything they want? Doesn't matter, sorry!
This is so moronic. I hope they get destroyed in courtrooms all over the world
>This is so moronic.
Sorry, it's how contracts work: take it or leave it.
If you don't like something, take us to court (if you can afford it lol).
>tfw this just literally wouldn't work in muh country
they could change existing fees, but not add new fees even if the contract states it since that fundamentally changes the contract and so it becomes a new contract and legally requires re-negotiation
they could terminate it, but then *they* would have to pay for lost business
that is to say, it would be treated like any other continuous supplier contract like lumber or coal or whatever. >Further, our terms are governed by California law, notwithstanding the country of the customer.
These kinds of clauses don't apply in the EU in general
>These kinds of clauses don't apply in the EU in general
NOOOOO DELETE THIS YOU CAN'T SAY THIS IT WILL WAKE UP THE GOYIM. ONLY ONLY WHAT'S ON THE STANDARD-FORM CONTRACTERINO APPLIES!
Making it always online was singlehandedly enough for me to stop using them, but if they roll back the $.20 bullshit at least that won't frick up a ton of games for everyone.
>only the initial installation
Why even bother at that point? This is just another sales tax since # of installs will be equal to (or lower) than # of sales. Might as well just charge $0.2 per copy sold and call it a day rather than overcomplicating shit with install tracking and having to make exceptions for a bunch of edge cases and shit. Unless, of course, this is just a first step and they plan to slowly move back to their initial proposal in the end.
But Unity already charges % of income doesn't it? Just add a few % more and there's their 20 cents. And if they don't charge % of income then maybe they should instead of this opaque bullshit.
>Unless, of course, this is just a first step and they plan to slowly move back to their initial proposal in the end.
Exactly. It would be far easier for them to just charge the extra 20 cents per copy sold and they'd even make more money off the ones that never end up getting installed. The fact they're sticking with installs is extremely telling what their end goal still is.
Their original plan of charging for every install. Boil the frog and all that.
Of course that's not the REAL endgoal, there's never an endgoal to monetization for fricks like this, they'll always try to weasel in new ways to pilfer pockets.
>What's the end goal?
Freemium games (genshit, other mobage, etc) make hand over fist, execs want some of that money then they golden parachute out of the company.
they want to kill many birds with the same stone: >get a piece of the F2P gacha garbage and asset flip pie >maximize short-term profits and generate a stock crash (CEO sold his stake over the past year which should be enough of a clue) >strangle indie devs by forcing them to waste money on draconian DRM or bleed to death via fees (they promised not to charge for pirate installs but god knows how that will turn out) >open up any dev to fraudulent fees (anyone can spam the reinstall button). this will most likely result in monthly game activation limits
The end goal is more money. They're taking a page from the tried and true ISP's "obtuse and hidden fees" billing method where rather than openly listing how much shit will cost upfront they add a bunch of vague, situational, largely unverifiable charges that you have no way of knowing how much they will affect you. On top of allowing them to advertise a lower price than what you will end up paying, these opaque fees also allow them to just pump up everyone's prices one month if they're falling short of their targets and since they're impossible to verify 99% will just pay rather than contesting the charges. Of course it remains to be seen how this will affect consumers since devs and publishers will eagerly pass those costs downwards.
Which shithole do you live in where ISPs can add random fees to your bill, I've never even heard of that before. As in data-capped plans going over the limit or what?
The biggest shithole there is: The United States of North America.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Wait, what???
8 months ago
Anonymous
America's shitty ISPs are the only thing keeping corporations in check from trying to make gaming subscription and cloud based so there's at least that silver lining.
If you want an engine with pretty mainstream support, Unreal or even Game Maker. For more open source alternatives, there are plenty options aside from Godot, and the choice may depend on what you actually want to do.
Unity browser games used to be somewhat popular, do people still do that?
Plugins (like the unity web plugin) went out of fashion in browsers, instead being replaced by other approaches. Not sure what Unity's current method of distributing in-browser games is, if there is one.
>Change to Godot
Do not fall for the commie bullshit. Godot is not a replacement for Unity. It is severely lacking in comparison. You can only transition to Godot if you were making something very simple like a VN.
If you're an expect game dev that could probably make his own engine anyway then yeah, you can use Godot. If you're a limited knowledge amateur, which you are if you're using Unity, Godot is going to be a nightmare for you.
At this point? FOSS. No exception. I can easily see Unreal trying to pull something similar with Timmy behind the wheel, especially after their only real competitor just made it so easy for them to do while still looking like the good guy. If we can take this and turn into giving something like Godot the support that Blender has, it'll be a huge boon for the industry.
Timmy is not ricitello, ricitello has always been a total moron with no actual insight into game deisgn or development. The problem at Unity seems to be that no one in charge knows how their product functions, how it will continue to be used or even the law.
>I can easily see Unreal trying to pull something similar with Timmy behind the wheel
The same Timmy that has given his engines away for free for a quarter of a century and only takes a cut after devs become literal millionaires? Quit trying to invent boogey men, come back to reality. Tims already made a cool ten billion, what he does has clearly fricked worked for him, I can't see him wanting to change it up, if anything he'll probably make it even easier for people to port from Unity to Unreal.
Since when has Timmy also not been a total moron? Ricitello is also filthy fricking rich so I don't see how being rich somehow makes Timmy less of a weasel. We know he's willing to screw people over with Epic and is a flagrant hypocrite. Just because Ricitello doesn't make him look as evil doesn't mean he's somehow good now.
>Since when has Timmy also not been a total moron? Ricitello is also filthy fricking rich so I don't see how being rich somehow makes Timmy less of a weasel. We know he's willing to screw people over with Epic and is a flagrant hypocrite. Just because Ricitello doesn't make him look as evil doesn't mean he's somehow good now.
Let me put it this way if TimTIm is somewhere around 85iq, the nricitello is somewhere in 30s, he's just an exceptionally successful thief.
I dunno man, I can just easily see Timmy using this to milk more money out of Unreal. Competition is vital and their only real competition just gutted themselves out of sheer asinine levels of greed. Timmy is "smarter" yes, he's smart enough not to capitalize on this immediately, but I can easily see it coming down the line unless Unity immediately walks all this back and somehow doesn't lose a huge chunk of their consumer base.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>I dunno man, I can just easily see Timmy using this to milk more money out of Unreal.
He doesn't need to do anything for it to make him more money, Unity developers simply moving to Unreal will do that.
It's literally a case of...
Do nothing
Win
...for Epic.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>I dunno man, I can just easily see Timmy using this to milk more money out of Unreal. Competition is vital and their only real competition just gutted themselves out of sheer asinine levels of greed. Timmy is "smarter" yes, he's smart enough not to capitalize on this immediately, but I can easily see it coming down the line unless Unity immediately walks all this back and somehow doesn't lose a huge chunk of their consumer base.
You can think it as a bit of a loss leader for them but for the most part since they also use unreal to make their own games it's basically just win/win. Timmy hasn't fricked with it for 15 years I don't see him starting anytime soon, the possibility exists as you say.
>Since when has Timmy also not been a total moron? Ricitello is also filthy fricking rich so I don't see how being rich somehow makes Timmy less of a weasel.
Ricitello literally had to resign from EA after running it into the ground financially, Tim turned Epic into a company worth 30+ billion.
I fully appreciate you're emotionally invested in your steam library, and I genuinely get it, my team > your team tribalism is perfectly natural, but stop conflating your entirely emotional reaction with reality.
Ricitello doesn't care, he's got infinite golden parachutes and EA is still around and happily being evil. This has nothing to do with Valve, I'm going off of Timmy's actions. I think you're projecting here, you're the one with the emotional investment in probably Unreal, doubt it's the Epic store. You want to believe it can't happen to you, and I get that. But it can happen to you.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm going off of Timmy's actions.
What actions?
Unreal Engine has been available to everyone, free of charge for 25 years, no monthly subscription to use it, no limits on it's use, they just take a cut if you start making serious bank off it. They currently take 5% after you've made your first million.
Timmy has a better track record for being pro-developer than literally any company in the history of game development.
>I can easily see Unreal trying to pull something similar with Timmy behind the wheel
The same Timmy that has given his engines away for free for a quarter of a century and only takes a cut after devs become literal millionaires? Quit trying to invent boogey men, come back to reality. Tims already made a cool ten billion, what he does has clearly fricked worked for him, I can't see him wanting to change it up, if anything he'll probably make it even easier for people to port from Unity to Unreal.
>given his engines away for free for a quarter of a century and only takes a cut after devs become literal millionaires
Sounds extremely similar to unity.
>Sounds extremely similar to unity.
It's literally nothing like Unity. Now go and pay your monthly subscription for using Unity and don't forget to give Unity a 20 cent tip for every install they claim has occurred of your game despite their analytics being so shit that they show unreleased games being made by solo devs being installed and played by people all over the planet.
Unity has been charging developers more than Unreal has, for longer than Unreal's current revenue share model. Unity has simply been a popular engine with newcomers, even if there have been cheaper alternatives alongside it the whole time.
>can bankrupt the dev by installing and reinstalling the game if you bought it >nothing happens if you pirate and block it in firewall
Pirates were supposed to be bad?
Most of their userbase is tiny indies who make no money so they had to come up with some miserly penny pinching to make any money. UE makes all its money off mega hits so the low end is more about increasing mindshare than profit.
You need to have both 200k USD grossed and 200k installs within the same period to get charged by this. As such, the intention is to go after freemium games, because that way they'd earn money from installs.
>200k
I'll repeat they go after indies who make no money. 200k after valve, the government and unity takes their cut is 100k or less. For the amount of time it takes to make a game capable of selling that much this is less than minimum wage.
Again, keep in mind that it's both 200k grossed and 200k installs. Most indies don't sell their games at 1 dollar per unit, so to reach 200k installs (for the most part, so long there isn't any tampering via piracy or whatever) would generate more significant amount of gross revenue than 200k. A game selling 30k copies could very well generate above 400k in gross revenue as-is.
That's besides the point, they are setting the profit cap low because they want to extract money from low earners. If they planned to make no money from that target why set the cap there? The way the rule was initially implemented I have no idea what 200k installs even equates to in terms of userbase.
>Why cant they charge similarly to UE, flat 5% after some threshold, clear and simple.
Why only take a cut from your developers once when you can take a cut from them every time a customer installs a game, puts the game on a new device etc
This enables Unity to quite literally make up any quasi sales... I mean "install" figures they want and take their cut accordingly.
>flat 5% after some threshold
Funny thing is, if this system worked without any possible exploits/frickups (so 1 purchase = 1 install), the flat 20 cent fee would actually be better than a 5% fee on all games over $4.
So if the system worked, it'd be BETTER than before.
But no, they have to go with BS they can fudge by making it installs and instantly multiplying the amount by how much the game gets pirated.
>WAITWAITWAIT... uh, gehehehe... we meant to say, we'll only charge you for the FIRST installation on a per-user basis! >Demos? gurehm... ahaha, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it........
As much as I want to like Godot it's just missing too many key features for my project. I need hair simulation and accurate softbodies at minimum in order for me to consider switching engines and unfortunately Unity has the best implementation of simulations due to their partnership with Alembic.
Nothing happens immediately. I just hope this gives Godot the push to really become viable as people look for alternatives. It's already come a long way.
Godot is never going to happen. They are implementing features in 2024 that unreal has had since the early 2000s and unity has had for almost a decade. Maybe in another 10-15 years they will be where ue5 is right now.
Blender had a much faster dev cycle than Godot has. At current pace Godot isn't gonna make it. >occlusion culling only in mid 2021
It's really in a bad state.
Nah, blender was a complete joke for longer than godot has been alive, they toiled in complete obscurity for 20 years before everyone realised they had surpassed proprietary software.
Good thing indie devs are making games from 20 years ago then. They are keeping pace with where indie games are, not aaa.
Open youtube and look at any Godot changelog breakdown or any indie doing devlogs about optimizing in godot. Let me sum it up for you >no way guys Godot finally got *thing everyone had 20 years ago* this is a BIG DEAL! >you can now precompile your shaders without using a hack workaround in the year of our lord 2023! >yeah so basically my game was running like shit, so I paid a Godot dev to troubleshoot my code and it turns out the game doesn't deactivate far objects by default or properly garbage collect on destroy so I implemented those
This was exactly the same as blenders dev cycle, poorly implementing shit that other 3d software had pioneered ages ago. Blender is still shit at many things and their implementations are still clumsy, it just passed the minimum bar of usability for mass adoption.
This was exactly the same as blenders dev cycle, poorly implementing shit that other 3d software had pioneered ages ago. Blender is still shit at many things and their implementations are still clumsy, it just passed the minimum bar of usability for mass adoption.
counter-point: you are not getting fricked by corporate licensing meaning you maintain a far higher degree of income security also that shit is free homie
8 months ago
Anonymous
I mean yeah, but unreal's licensing is hardly unfair to the average indie. It is effectively free unless you become a sensation and make a million bucks.
>Hurr Durr Unity
If you frickers let this happen, it will become a industry norm and soon everybody will start charging per install.
You frickers better kill the evil while it's in the crib.
the actions of the common man mean nothing when a few giants own most of the world.
all we can do is pull all support and hope that companies like nintendo and mihoyo sue the frick out of them.
yeah a few nintendo games do. you can actually look at the pokemon franchise as your biggest example, but i remember reading its about 30% of their games/profit.
They need the cheap labor from fresh out of college students who likely already know Unity/Unreal rather than having to spend the time teaching them how to use proprietary engines.
[...]
[...]
Huh. You'd think they'd of all corporations would be making their own proprietary engines for everything.
Partly because those games were developed by third-party studios outside Nintendo, where Nintendo more or less provided supervision. Not every studio or company has the resources Nintendo has.
That's besides the point, they are setting the profit cap low because they want to extract money from low earners. If they planned to make no money from that target why set the cap there? The way the rule was initially implemented I have no idea what 200k installs even equates to in terms of userbase.
It's about targeting freemium games (that either get by microtransactions, or via in-game ads), because Unity has been relatively popular for those. The traditional game that's sold with a pricetag won't be hit as hard, because you need to have decently big hit on your hands to reach 200k installs.
>If you frickers let this happen, it will become a industry norm and soon everybody will start charging per install. >You frickers better kill the evil while it's in the crib.
It doesn't matter they're going to get buttfricked in court.
Now next Pathfinder/Other Owlcat game will be different Engine, maybe they'll buy licence of Divinity Engine which might support weird 1e rules like pulling the rug out of enemies
I find it amusing that probably nobody would've thought about redownloading a shitty game over and over until some moron trying to b***h about people potentially discriminating against them said something
Unironically, how to start with ue if my shitty pc cant run the engine? Learn c++? Any advice?
And if you are still stubborn and want to use unreal (like I did on a 10 year old laptop) you can do these to still run it >Open the console with tilde key ~ and type: t.maxfps 30 to limit the editor fps. Can go lower if you want >Open the scalability settings, set everything to medium or low, and lower the resolution scale to like 50% >turn off real-time in the viewport, so the engine could usage drops way down unless you are playtesting
> Devs not on the hook for game pass.
Microsoft didn't like that > Demos "mostly" won't trigger fees
kek > Initial installation
But an extra fee will be charged if a user installs a game on a second device, say a Steam Deck after installing a game on a PC.
VM bros we won
They are done. No dev will ever use Unity again, when Unreal Engine 5 has a top reputation and can do everything what Unity can.
>when Unreal Engine 5 has a top reputation
Hi Tim.
Epic has been offering up it's engines for people to use free of charge for a quarter of a century, it only takes a cut once you're a literal millionaire. That's about as good of a reputation as anyone could possibly have in the world of licensing game engines.
Os not only cheaper fçbut also faster to develop with UE5
Yeah, just like fricking is Windows is done after they introduced the x-th anti-consumer anti0feature and everyone uses desktop Linux now. Surely the frog will jump out this time!
They israelites still did insider trading tho
Yes
DUMP IT
I don't get it
insider trading is illegal anon
if you don't know what insider trading is just google it
Insider trading is illegal*
*(if you have less than 10 million dollars and no lawyers on retainer)
yes the juden have their ways of getting around it
>insider trading is illegal anon
Maybe for you and me
Not for Congress
CEO says this will increase company value while selling his own share in advances(Because he expects company value decline)
Sell it, drive it down really low so more people sell it at a much lower price, buy more of it so you gain more control and reverse course to get a bump and grow value before selling it at another high point.
The new CEO of Fedex just did this recently. And SEC will do nothing... spare maybe a slap on the wrist for a few hundred thousand for millions made.
They should just confiscate the stock instead if the whole thing was to increase control. As you say fines are useless but confiscating stock would go directly to the source
They have to give advance notice of share sales. They can’t just dump them at a moments notice like a retail investor.
Isnt that exactly the thing that ruined the Canadian plane industry? Is not that also a trade law violation?
Like, you do this and if it goes horribly then you might need a federal bailout, right? But what if they dont bail them out? What if literally everyone else buys up the penny stocks and the CEO loses his majority shares to a bunch of AIs and Robin Hood proud boys?
There's a proper procedure for buying and selling shares of your own company
He's been selling part of his shares the whole year, it's highly unlikely that he planned some market manipulation scheme with this
>He's been selling part of his shares the whole year, it's highly unlikely that he planned some market manipulation scheme with this
Planned buying/selling of shares is the biggest fricking crock of shit ever, it's meant to circumvent insider trading laws, but when you're the one deciding the direction and actions of the company your trades might be public, but your company actions aren't until they fricking happen.
For all intents and purposes it's still insider trading because you're positioning yourself financially to take advantage of things only you know about because you're the one doing them.
Exactly. It's one thing for an employee/executive to plan to sell their shares a year before, but then a week after the date they find out that the CEO decided to do some stupid bullshit that will tank the stock prices. The other it's when it's the CEO himself who knows exactly when he'll do the bullshit
>thing that will increase the company's revenue will tank the stock price
mongoloid
>Announce news
>Everybody shit on it
>Fear causes people to stop buying
>Some moron started selling
>Chain reaction and everybody starts selling
It's not even the first time this kind of shit happens.
It will eventually bounce back though, so definitely buy the dip.
retail plebs aren't moving the market
If it kills their rep and drives away future business, which it looks set to, yeah.
All the big chink mobile games (i.e. the top earners) are based on unity and they won't go anywhere because of a small fee
The small time indie developers are meaningless in the big picture
>Westoids ruin their own vidya industry.
>They try to take a slice of the gacha money pie.
>They end up nuking their entire indie industry in the process, trust included, because nobody sane would use unity even after the backpedaling.
>They still had to backpedal anyway so even on a best case scenario they will barely make any more money from gacha games in unity as they do now.
>Even worse, most gacha use a special proprietary fork of unity so different from unity itself that it now legally counts as it's own engine in both japan and china so the really big gacha doesn't have to pay shit to unity either way.
Why are westoids so fricking stupid?
Most indie games aren't selling enough to get past the threshold for the fee
This feels like a huge nothing burger
>he doesn't understand trust
lmfao, do better shill
Most of these gays will stop caring when they realize they won't be affected lol
Depends on the indie, maybe it'll sell like shit at launch but eventually get popular (this is literally what happened with Among us)
Either way its not even about the money relatively speaking. Why the frick you would be willing to work with a company that will frick you over for a few extra cents more?
Because the engine itself is still good and nobody is going to bother investing their time into learning a different engine when they realize they will never sell enough to be affected by the fee
>Good
>Unity
Kek, Unity is bloatware in engine form.
Yeah I meant "good" as in easy to learn and use
>Because the engine itself is still good
hahahahahaha
>Because the engine itself is still good
Unity has literally never been good, not even Unity developers would claim that.
Unity is not good though. The only reason why anybody used it was because it's free and easy to learn. There's a lot of engines that are better than it could ever hope to be and don't have a 1/10th of the current israeliteery.
>There's a lot of engines that are better than it could ever hope to be
name them
>CryEngine
>Unreal
>Source 2
>Godot (For 2D)
>id Tech
>Because the engine itself is still good
I've nevre played a Unity game that didn't turn my computer into a space heater.
you have a shit computer or you're lying.
Okay so the only Unity game I've ever played (I think) is My Time At Portia, so it was probably the chinks doing it.
It says a lot that even unity devs won't use their own engine.
>>Even worse, most gacha use a special proprietary fork of unity so different from unity itself that it now legally counts as it's own engine in both japan and china
Which one?
Mihoyo's games at least do
Nah, I mean which fork. I want in.
yeah im with that other anon.
i want the waifunity engine.
Based. I hope we get more Genshin waifus forever.
Frick unity.
The westoid game industry lost all its talent around 15-20 years ago. It drove it away by paying shit wages and pushing for divershitty hires. Turns out letting "minorities" get CS degrees by allowing them to bypass difficult courses results in shit engineers.
Back when I worked at Ubisoft we had a period, once per year, where we could buy and sell shares from the company. Aside from that period you couldn't move it at all.
can someone link me to the initial statement? ive missed this.
or a youtube video talking about it i guess
because he expects a dip and can then buy back more before it recovers
Lmao is that image true?
i dont know but i can believe it so i saved the image
Reminder that this is illegal.
It's not
The only reason people found out about it is because he's been following the SEC rules where you have to file a form when you do legit insider trading
>illegal
Nonce word
Only if you piss off someone who you don't want to anger.
Insider trading doesn't refer to people on the actual inside. They're allowed to trade their stock based on what they know. But if the CEO is suddenly dumping all their stock it should be obvious to the market something is up even if they don't know exactly what.
>this is illegal
only for goyim
projection
>this is illegal.
In theory yes but he probably will hide behind something like "selling was long term planed while this change we just came up recently with".
It would only be illegal if they tried to hide the sale of the shares which they did not.
you won't do shit, you have no shares, your bankers will devalue your credit score when you sell
>engaging in the free market is now illegal
what happened to america?
go tell nancy pelosi lawmaker and not-insider trading extraordinaire about it
/misc/ was right again
Company insiders should be forced to publicly file a notice of intention to sell 24 hours before selling.
I believe the law is they have to give 2 days public notice and they pretty much all do. Most people aren't paying any attention.
Damn I genuinely wanted to try bank rupting a small time dev by reinstalling continuously.
I guess I could still do it via IP switching and doing a fresh install of some super lightweight Linux to trick the system, but that doesn't seem scalability into anything other than annoyance
Uh they do. The thing is most of them will buy and sell their own stock regularly so just going dump/pump based on what they do is basically pointless for a retail investor
CEOs have to schedule their stock selling well in advance.
You guys know that right? And you know that selling stock doesn't equate to shorting?
Massive price model changes have to be scheduled well in advance.
You do know that right? Why would you trust any senior team members who won't invest in their own workplace?
Does this count as trading with insider info? If yes, he mey be fricked badly
yeah, definitely inside trading
shut the frick up homosexuals it was just luck ok?????
I hate Black folk
John Riccitiello is a israeli name?
half the italians are crypto israelites
?
Do NOT look up the last company unity merged with, just do NOT
you mean ironSource? that wasnt a merge, they bought it
~~*You*~~
why do i bother with you people? believe what you want
We can see on crunchbase that Sequoia Capital has invested about 20 times more than anyone else in unity technologies. As the world’s most prominent venture-capital firm, Sequoia capital is plenty Zionist. They have vast connections to the PayPal sphere of online control, and are responsible for the new silicon valley in Tel Aviv. Since they opened their Israeli branch 22 years ago, they've invested in at least 169 startups over there.
Italian, but "Riccitiello" basically means "with extremely curly hair", so one of his ancestors was probably a merchant
>Italian, but "Riccitiello" basically means "with extremely curly hair", so one of his ancestors was probably a merchant
>it's real
My fricking sides.
>This name comes from the Italian word "ricco" meaning "curly." The name most likely referred to someone with curly hair.
>This name comes from the Italian word "ricco"
Actually from the word "riccio" (curly). "Ricco" in italian means rich. So the words for "curly" and "rich" sound extremely similar in italian, I wonder what this could mean
>They israelites
tone it down with the pronouns chud
AIIEEE STOP NOTICING GOY
Yep. Justice system is israeli though.
this.
If they can just say "fu we're changing the rules and you will say thank you" any time they want, why would I want to spend a year or two developing a project on their platform?
They already broke all trust and barriers. All games made in the past will be subject to this new policy with very little exemptions.
There's clearly no standards for this company and there's no more trust.
They israelite'd too hard.
Stop noticing, it’s not good for your gunt.
Riccitiello is from Pennsylvania, you dolt. He's probably Italian given that last name.
When will you people learn that these behaviors are learned, not genetic? You don't have to be one of God's chosen people to be this horrible. Anyone can do it if they want.
Italians and israelites are pretty much the same thing
>Source: new york
>Riccitiello is from Pennsylvania, you dolt. He's probably Italian given that last name.
did this guy do something else fairly recently? i feel like i saw this exact same exchange about something else, maybe something microsoft related?
>did this guy do something else fairly recently? i feel like i saw this exact same exchange about something else, maybe something microsoft related?
There's this, though it's from last year.
Jews and Italians share like 80% of their DNA you utter moron.
second post best post
cool it witht the antisemetic remarks, gentile
There's no way to prove "first" install
First install every 1 month
>Implying unity analytics isn't tracking everything you do every time you launch one of their games while online.
you can go look at the analytics due to it being part of the preprocessing and see that's not the case:
You can even disable it, it's not against the ToS to do so as of right now.
Not to mention the telemetry, which we can see, only accounts for new installs. Also there's no way to separate gamepass and regular installs
They admitted to telemetry in their statement
Did you forgot they fused with a literal mossad spyware&malware company last year?
Take a wild guess about how hard it will be to track "first" install when the engine come packaged with a full set of surveillance tools.
Unless they enforce mandatory DRM
I like the "Demos mostly won't trigger fees," like they aren't even sure themselves. How will they know it's a demo and not a full game? Some code that lists that it's a a demo an exempt? Couldn't you just use that for the full game instead? Unless there is active spyware, how would they be able to tell the difference?
>Unless there is active spyware
That was added in an update like a year ago. Did you forget?
Why don't they sell themselves to Microsoft?
Microsoft really needs an engine that works, not the Bethesda creation engine shit.
They still have idtech. No idea why they don't use it more often.
Microsoft has a team specialized on unreal: sea of thieves, gears, hifi rush, etc. They even done porting of pubg, published some free plugins. They might need Unity as already existed userbase of indie devs but not as an engine
That's not how it works, Microsoft doesn't have a team specific for one engine and sure they don't care about indies.
Studios at Microsoft already have a their own engine like the Forzaengine and such. Microsoft doesn't really need to buy unity. They can literally make their own if they want because they are a software company after all.
Windows 11 unironically has minecraft code in it, look it up
Microsoft most likely bought-out Bethesda and Activision with the intention of utilizing programmer talent from id, Bethesda, Infinity Ward, and Treyarch to create a modern next-gen version of id Tech to compete with Unreal Engine like the good old days, especially since current id Tech and the CoD engine share common lineage and structure. [spoilers]At-least, that's what they would do if they were smart.[/spoilers]
they have id tech
Classic strategy of first proposing something completely insane, and after facing backlash pretend to backpedal to whatever shitty thing you actually wanted to do.
This is EA bread and butter, and guess who took over Unity?
Yeah, just one more company mr. rigatoni will crash I guess, just like all the studios EA has bought and closed over the years.
Nah this has far more reaching implications such as opening the whole retroactivity can of worms
It's too late. This kind of attempt at a retroactive shakedown completely kills any trust. Why take the risk of using Unity if they might attempt something similar/worse in future?
>might
we won guys we defeated capitalism
Oh wait they knew this was going to happen and got exactly what they wanted it out of it
The overton window was moved you stupid morons
First you lay on the table some outrageous terms so that the terms you actually want dont look as bad later when you "backpedal"
They still removed the plus subscription, no israeliteery was avoided on this day
>"aye aye aye wait a minute i didnt mean it like that NOT LIKE THA-"
>0$ stocks
the fee itself is still ridiculous.
>first install
>on mobile devices, the most saturated market there is
>charges pokemon and genshin
tt's dead Jim
They won't get a cent from genshit, chink government will ensure that
Every moron npc on planet America already knows about the overton window and "face in the door" since 2016, you are not special for bringing it up, you're just fricking annoying like you're expecting kudos for pointing out the color of the sky. Go away.
You overestimate how smart the average person is. Keep bringing it up or they won't notice.
Do you seriously think the public is who is making choices on using Unity, a fricking game dev engine?
It's a niche market and they just ruined all trust and credibility. The only potentially "intelligent" move in here is the CEO insider trading stock before tanking the value of the company, and making it more enticing for a bigger company to buy it (and him) out.
You are so smart anon!!!
>backpedaling
this was the plan from the start
They call it the door-in-the-face technique.
As always
DONT FORGET ABOUT THE UNITY PRO SHIT
YOU HAVE TO CALL THAT OUT TOO
this
i'm glad i realised Unity Pro was the real goal of this affair
Explain
couple hundred dollar pushed to a couple thousand dollar yearly fee
Unity is removing the Plus subscription, which was the "basic" paid option at like $700 a year.
Pro is the next level up, which will now be the default paid option, at like $2000 a year.
As a balance to this, they're removing the requirement they had before to use a paid license at all. Before, all companies making enough profit thresholds HAD to upgrade. But now you can stay free no matter your profits.
Also to play into this change, this new Install Fee is a flat 20 cents for free users that pass the thresholds while Pro and higher licenses get an increasingly discounted fee (like it goes down the more installs they get)
Now explain without trying to paint it in a good light you fricking gay
>paint it in a good light
I literally just explained subjective facts about the situation. If you think that's painting it in a good light, you're the weirdo thinking these changes are good.
Charging the developer for installs is extremely evil and greedy. They should be tarred and feathered for even proposing this, and if people were smart it would permanently ruin their reputation.
Reputation? Devs are going to completely delist their games en masse january 1st lmao
Reminder that none of this would be happening if games didn't connect to remote servers.
This shit would have been impossible in the old days.
Propose it? They're still going through with it, just trying to make it not sound as bad when the only way they could know what an "initial" install happens is if they fingerprint the computer of everyone who's ever played a unity game, which is a huge privacy invasion, and that's still not counting installing it on another device you own.
that's not packbaddling. that's called negotiation
>valve doesn't provide unity with data on "first installations"
>unity can only seethe and whine
>if unity bans games on its engine from going on steam they go bankrupt immediately
lol
I hope all the devs see through this transparent "big ask" bullshit and actually jump ship.
Imagine if you were a business and said you were going to change ALL your contracts after the fact.
>so these developers made this game 10 years ago
>"yes"
>and release it
>""yes"
>but you said they owe you a millionty dollars in charges & fees you just implemented yesterday?
>"yes"
M$ got away with this shit with minecraft.
>M$ got away with this shit with minecraft.
When should I expect the bill for the $16 I owe them?
This is basically EULA agreement frickery but against people that will actually have the money to sue over it
>>but you said they owe you a millionty dollars in charges & fees you just implemented yesterday?
>>"yes"
this is not happening with the new unity pricing plan, moron. read the fricking info before spewing dumb bullshit.
the real israeliteery is their vague "tracking" of installs, along with dropping this new shit with a 3 months notice
so whats the difference between buying the game and installing it?
You can buy a game for someone as a gift
Didn't they literally say they couldn't track the first install only previously?
Yes.
At best they'll keep their current userbase.
Imagine starting a new project and still choosing Unity after this fiasco. At that point you deserve it.
>backpedalling
nowhere in that xeet does it say they're removing the unitea tax
Reminder unity had actual legitimate malware
they were also caught bundling adware with unity a few years back if i recall correctly (or something to that effect), so im not surprised. really fishy. almost like some one infiltrated their company just to kill it
wow unity really listened to us bros 🙂
>unity makes money hand over fist without changing a single thing about their product or service
How many times has unity been in the news over the past few years because they were laying people off?
And free PR?
fricking lol
I wouldn't want to be chained to an engine with contracts as schizophrenic as unity.
>Free PR
What PR? "Hey, this company tried to scam the frick out of everybody until people yelled at them". That PR? A lot of people already didn't have a favorable view on Unity long before this fiasco and this just made it infinitely worse.
There really is no coming back from "hey we're going to start charging you everytime someone installs your game". Even if they walk the whole thing back, the fact they even went this far is enough. Unity went from boiling the frog slowly to just taking a torch to it.
The fact that they made it work RETROACTIVELY instead of just for new games made after said thing was announced is the most baffling of them all
I still don't know how they planned on doing that. What about games running on versions of the engine so old that they don't include the Unity analytics?
They said they have a super accurate proprietary model that super accurately predicts installs (they can't tell you how it works though, but trust them, it's super accurate)
Nobody is going to run free PR for them though? They're either shitting themself that they can alter the deal at any time
there is no PR team on the planet that can salvage a company that said "we are going to charge you for everything you've ever done". it's fricking over
>wow unity really listened to us bros 🙂
>Indie devs will cheer and run free PR for Unity
In reality indie devs are now sharing resources for how to jump ship from Unity.
How many times do you think this link has been posted today on the Unity forums?
https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.3/en-US/unreal-engine-for-unity-developers/
For once Timmy is not the bad guy, well done TimTIm.
So am I the only one that sees this as part of some greater scheme? Maybe it's as simple as them trying to make as much money while they burn it all down but there's no way they think charging per install and automatically moving devs to a much more expensive subscription is legitimately a good idea.
No, it's a blatantly obvious "pitch horrible idea, settle for a bad idea and pretend you listened to the community" scheme.
No, I don't think it's that. This latest one is so egregious, any dev using unity would be moronic if they're not thinking of how to best move to something else.
What are going to move to?
>Godot
Dead in the water
>Unreal
Too expensive without publisher support
>Custom
They wouldn't be using Unity in the first place if this was an option
>Unreal
>Too expensive
Unreal is literally free if you make less than one million dollars.
People also seem to forget that the $200k threshold is pretty even for non-AAA studios.
1 million in revenue. Not profit.
And 1 million in revenue is something you can break simply by selling 10k copies of a 10 USD game.
>unreal
>too expensive
Why are there so many morons living in a different world? You pay $0 to epic unless your project earns over $1 million, then they ask for 5% royalties. It has been like this since the early days of ue4
it's a shill
>Unity has a malware which counts how many times app was installed
Lmao if true
lmao
Frick Game Pass
Rent. Free.
If I was indie deving I sure as frick would switch to Unreal or Godot right now. Unity can and will frick you whenever they want and there isn't anything you can do about it.
I've been saying it for years now that Godot will be the engine of choice for indie devs. It's becoming the Blender equivalent in its' field. All it's doing is getting bigger and better and the community has been growing at an explosive rate compared to its slow growth in the past.
That's because they pay you to)
Everyone pissed off about the fees, but no on seems to be pissed off at the fact they'll know you installed in the first place.
Since when do people care about being spied on?
22 years ago exactly.
Unity games have had telemetry for the longest time. That's why you're suppose to block pirated games in your firewall.
https://docs.unity.com/ugs/manual/analytics/manual/overview
Kek unity is really hitting the industry with the art of the deal
Well, I'm too deep into the project to turn back now. Oh well, I never intended for it to make money or get more than 500 players anyways. Glad I'm not trying to make this hobby a career, lol.
I'll fricking buy enough copies of your game just to screw you over homosexual.
>Buy copy of your game.
>Write script that installs it on new VMs over and over.
>let it run for months.
>laugh as you have to now prove to Poppa Unity that the bad Ganker man did it and you don't owe him $50k in Install Fees.
You are a literal buffoon if you don't jump ship. You'll be the real, living, breathing, paypiggy. Oink Oink
>oy vey you need to pay me my install fees
oh yeah, where's your proof?
>well.. uh, I have this number in my machine that only I can see and control.. s-so you h-have to pay!
this won't hold up to any sort of legal case
Let's see how many 'initial' installations they get once the scene groups figure out what API had to get called lmao. Not feeling sorry for any of these scumbags, game devs deserve to bleed like pigs.
who the frick thought it was a good idea to put John Ravioli in charge?
He's been a greedy homosexual his entire life and has kept getting CEO positions time and time again. He must suck dick real fricking good or he makes companies so much money they turn a blind eye no matter how hard he fricks the companies reputation. He himself may not be a israelite but he's absolutely an honorary israelite.
Yeah but I'm really not seeing it with Rigatoni here. Like Kotick gets away with anything because he makes money but Rigatoni has had nothing but failure.
None of these are actually retractions
They're trying to make it sound better, but it;ls the same as before
Look at the weasel words
They have no way of tracking install, so all install are """initial""" installs
Demos "mostly" wont trigger fees aka they still will outside specific ones they flag for select partners
Devs not on the hook for gamepass, because Microsoft is, and Microsoft will pass it on to the devs
remember when they said torrenting games cost people money? well now that's literally true.
>torrent game of company you hate
>make script to mass install/uninstall it
>they go bankrupt
Their backpedal proposal was their initial plan all along. In the end they will profit from this either way. Let's see how adamant devs really are to move to another platform after this lmfao
is there a name for the fricking moron that decided an install fee was a good idea?
>"Look! We're doing you a good thing by backpedaling...By a tiny bit
>"FRICKING COUGH UP MONEY YOU SHITSTAINS"
>sell $20 game
>valve takes $6 cut
>unity takes a $0.20 cut
why are we sperging out over this again?
>sell $20 game
>valve takes $6 cut
>unity takes a $0.20 cut
>unity takes a $0.20 cut
>unity takes a $0.20 cut
>unity takes a $0.20 cut
>unity takes a $0.20 cut
>...
>unity takes more money than the actual sale price of the game and continues to bleed dev dry
>Daily dose of rape
I love it
>first the "pirate it till they bankrupt" meme becomes real
>now the "piccolo dick meme" also becomes real (at least for developers)
The memepocalypse is here. Can't wait to see consolewartards whiiiirr each other in real life
Because originally Unity took a $0.20 cut every single time the game was INSTALLED, not every time it was purchased. Valve don't charge an installation fee to devs.
Well for one Valve only does it once.
Unity is monthly
Imagine if they offset the cost to users instead. $20 game now costs $20.20. Big whoop.
now imagine forcing users to pay an extra 0.20 for each install
Those sheeps already got used to pay for the same game multiple times. Like FIFA and Skyrim shit.
>sell $20 game
>valve takes $6 cut
>unity takes a $0.20 cut
>sell $1 game
>valve takes $0.30 cut
>unity takes a $0.20 cut
>sell $1 game at 50% off
>valve takes $0.15 cut
>unity takes a $0.20 cut
the problem is that this is a flat rate, plus valve takes its cut ONCE, when you sell a copy, Unity wants to charge you every single time the game is installed
valve: provides a game hosting, distribution, and discussion service
>unity: "you owe us 20 cents for every install because... uh... YOU JUST DO OK?!?!? I DONT CARE IF YOU ALREADY PAID FOR A UNITY PLUS LICENSE I WANT MORE MONEY!!!"
>valve: provides a game hosting, distribution, and discussion service
Also screws over the artifact fanbase.
>screws over no-one
ok
>voice actors take a 60% cut
>make freemium game
>game makes $0.10 per user
>congratulations you now have to pay unity per installation
Every celebrating this, always remember, it wasn't JUST Horse Armor.
Having this fee at all, even if it's toned down from its initial offer, will only lead to worse slippery slope that ALWAYS negatively affects consumers.
Here, I'll help you with some buzzwords. They're "slow boiling the frog" or "pushing the overton window"
At this point it looks likely that I will be quitting vidya no matter what happens. If some baseddevs ' dream get crushed in the process that's just a bonus.
OY VEY
>hurrrr da joooooz
>CEO is white
>whites making greedy moves
it's always projection with /misc/cels
>Riccitiello
>white
>text is green
>man is white
>b-but the name!
keep coping, vermin.
Frick off unity CEO
lol kys
>but call it a white and you will be astonished how it recoils
>white buys a company
>this is da jooz fault
lmao every time
>scammers
>malware developers
>shovelware developers
>freemium games developers
>all based in Tel Aviv
Every single time a company backpedals like this they just wait for the initial rage to die down and do it anyways. Stay far away from Unity unless they fire every single person involved in this decision and issue a public apology with a promise to never ever do it in the future.
How am I supposed to single handedly bankrupt a pozzed troony dev now if only the first installation charges them? This is horse shit!
Delete the registry key between installs.
Surely, it's not that simple. I would think the counter is kept server-side.
I imagine once this shit actually goes live a shitload of code monkeys are gonna start working to figure out what mixture of hardware identifiers need to be changed to count as a "unique" install.
Yep, pretty sure we are hearing about this the same time the devs are. CEOs vomit out terrible ideas and are expecting everyone else to pick up the slack
No need. A TPM is all they need. Any 7th gen israelitetel Core CPU and Ryzen 2000 series CPU and higher has fTPM. I'm sure they'll flip the switch when W10 bites the dust.
This goes live at the start of January yeah?
There's still gonna be plenty of W10 installs without TPM in a couple months.
And before you say "it'll be tied to the account that bought it", how many Unity games are on GoG?
There has to be *something* on your PC to identify that a game has previously been installed. That something can inevitably be spoofed or deleted. There is simply no foolproof way to verify "initial installs."
I've been reading the Unity staff's posts on their forums
It appears they have NOTHING in place for this planned change yet
Anything is viable is viable until further notice
They'd have to fingerprint your system and create a unique identifier to keep track of that, which is far more of a privacy invasion than just looking at the os and gpu you're using.
you don't need a rootkit to fingerprint an install
Find where the telemetry is stored and delete it in between every install.
What defines an "initial install"?
App store account name?
Hardware hash?
Hmmm....
friendship ended with reviewbombing. reinstall bomb is my new best friend.
DO NOT INSTALL
SIRS PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL
>Unity is already backpedaling lol
They planned to "backpedal" the exact moment they announced it you fricking SHITWIT.
>tell the world you are going to something absolutely completely bugfrick insane
>people freak out at how insane your claims are
>"we've heard your feedback, and have listened. rather than fricking everyone in the ass with a 12 inch rusty barbed dildo, we will make sure the dildo is sanitized as to not cause tetanus"
>public relaxes and accepts offer that is still insane because at least it wasn't the original plan
moronic conspiracy nonsense. This isn't some cheap consumer good that people buy because they want it and will put up with bullshit for it.
This a business partnership that developers are investing years of work into, where one party just proved they can't be trusted at all because they will retroactively try to frick the other parties in the ass. The public having a short attention span doesn't matter. The public doesn't even know what the frick a game engine is or does, just look at all the midwits crying about creation engine.
it's called the "foot in the door" method, and it works on normies hook line and sinker every single time. it's how your grandma ended up with a piece of shit vacuum in the 70s.
This. They're doing the typical
>we're going to frick you in the ass raw
>wait no we heard your concerns and we've reconsidered
>we're going to drop our plans. instead of fricking your ass raw, we'll wear protection!
and pretending they did you a favor when they're still ravaging your ass anyway.
>he thinks conspiracy means false
read a dictionary you fricking ignoramus
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/riccitiello-developers-who-push-back-against-monetisation-are-pure-brilliant-and-fricking-idiots
here's ricitello being a total fricking moron.
>"Devs who push back against monetisation can be “brilliant” but also “fricking idiots"”
>"He added that he's seen great games fail because their compulsion loop should have been tuned to an hour, rather than two minutes. The difference between a smash hit and a failure can be this tuning around monetisation and attrition."
So ricitello is every bit as stupid, shortsighted and useless as everyone might suspect. He is a blithering fricking idiot.
...
Thats fricking racist against horses
>4 of those games are major money makers for China's foreign economy.
They probably are not going to pay Unity.
>They probably are not going to pay Unity.
Neither are Nintendo or any of the other big names, if they have to go to court they will, and unity is going to get hit for trying to change a contract after the fact.
These changes do not apply to the industry license version of Unity which pretty much all the big names are going to use. This is just for the small companies and hobbyists that don't fork out a $5k yearly subscription fee per employee to use the engine like the big names do.
yes they do moron
>yes they do moron
I wouldn't call him a moron, he probably had some sort of faith left that the Unity morons couldn't possibly be that stupid, too bad for him they're even dumber than he thought.
This licensing option is not listed there for a reason.
Profits from most Unity games don't exceed the license cost
It's honestly impressive that Timmy Tim basically hasn't said a word about this whole debacle. You'd think he'd take this opportunity to market the shit out of Unreal
>Doesn't realize that big corps would get contracts that are not open to the public and would never be listed to keep an air of "fairness" and "transparency".
>Thinks Nintendo or Tecent would be paying any sort of per install fee based on that chart and not just a "Per Unit Sold based on our Numbers not yours you little Unity b***h".
They will already have their own corporate contracts with Unity as the little b***h in the relationship. This is Unity trying to make b***hes out of the indy dev's who can't bite back.
I sincerely doubt that will go over well
Well, a few of the listed could buy out Unity and not flinch, especially at current stock prices, and with this mess most stockholders are probably looking to sell.
In fact there are 3 possibilities of why they are doing this.
1. Desperate for quick cash grab.
2. Trying to drive down the stock right after selling a lot of shares by the CEO so they can buy back the stock at the lower value and consolidate ownership. As someone already pointed out Fedex's CEO did that just recently.
3. They sold off a chunk of shares just in case and are wanting to lower the cost so someone will buy them out of a hole they see in the future, knowing that for some studio's of the games listed, rely on the tool and may being willing to buy it up at a discount.
>2. Trying to drive down the stock right after selling a lot of shares by the CEO so they can buy back the stock at the lower value and consolidate ownership. As someone already pointed out Fedex's CEO did that just recently.
Not likely. That's a crime and, as we all know, the justice system is swift and harsh when it comes to white collar crime. Not worth the risk.
Yes, that's why SEC did nothing to Fedex last year when the CEO drove down the stock from $300 to $126 and did a massive buy back before changing the outlook forcast.
>only initial installation triggers a fee
>demos and gamepass won't
Why not just do a royalty percentage instead of this "per install" bullshit
>Why not just do a royalty percentage instead of this "per install" bullshit
They want to tap into the mobile games developer's income streams, decided they weren't getting their fair share.
Sooooooo why not just do a royalty percentage? In app purchases count as game-generated revenue
>Sooooooo why not just do a royalty percentage? In app purchases count as game-generated revenue
Not if you don't count it the same, think real israeli about this and sell it as "merch".
Unreal has no problem collecting microtransactions as part of their revenue cut, what's the specific problem here?
>Unreal has no problem collecting microtransactions as part of their revenue cut, what's the specific problem here?
Unreal probably had a proper lawyer go over their shit, if were going by how unity is attempting to do this they probably should've hired one.
They swallowed the ESG dick. Time to die.
They might be bankrupting their customers, but at least they're ethical.
RETROACTIVE BROS OUR RESPONSE???
>a hentai game I've been looking forward to is on unity
owari kurwa da
You're just gonna have to do without your e-girl guro game
No deal
It's a VN so it will be trivial to port it to any other engine. Hell, it would be trivial to port it to html.
>It's a VN
Am not a gay
>Devs not on the hook for Game Pass
>They think they'll get checks from Microsoft from games neither company owns or develops
>mfw
>devs hate microtransactions
the irony
>the irony
Good point hadn't thought of it that way, turn about is fair play after all.
Nuke North america.
There I said it. The solution to 95% of the world's problems.
>Nuke North america.
Anon...
they want microsoft to pay for it for game pass. I wonder what microsoft will do.
Keep in mind the ceo is someone who got fired from EA for being greedy and stupid, his plans to be greedy were too stupid for EA to put up with.
I don't understand, them getting a 1% of the profits after the $200k likely wouldn't be a problem and probably easier to do.
Why did they have to be so greedy to burn the bridges by charging a fixed amount for an amount that can possibly accumulate do infinite while still not generating revenue?
>How can we make more?
It always come down to this one simple question.
Welcome to capitalism.
>be unity CEO
>sell all my stock in advance of making an obvious bonehead move that will cause stock price to tank
>go through with bonehead move
>shares tank
>buy up previously sold shares for cheap
>pocket the difference
>reverse bonehead maneuver. publicly release "I'm sorry, we'll do better" statement.
>stock price recovers
isn't capitalism fun?
And all for the low low price of a few hundred thousand in SEC fines if anything at all.
Casinos are not a mandatory feature for capitalism
>everyone is a business and contract expert
Post nose
t. Unity executive
>initial installation of the game
Casinos are about to cancel a whole lot of contracts. Most of the fancy slot machines use unity.
It's just a trade stage, they already calculated shekels they want to earn
So does nobody else seem to be concerned over the fact that this engine has backdoor rootkit spyware that's capable of monitoring every single time a game using this engine is installed on any computer anywhere in the world?
>backdoor rootkit spyware
You have no idea what any of those words mean. But yes, everyone's aware of ironSource and Unity collecting data. It's just that none of it is new.
Literally the ONLY thing that might regain some modicum of trust is to fire John homietello.
If I'm a mid sized/big developer why the frick would I keep working with a company that does such asinine bullshit? Look at this homosexual
I just look at this guy and the word pedophile pops into my head, dunno what it is.
>hey there little girl... where's my 20 cents...?
Go into your bathroom, turn off the light(s), look in the mirror, and repeat this incantation three times:
Ravioli, Ravioli
Mr. Chef Boyarde
Ravioli, Ravioli
Install game for a fee
>No one cared who I was 'til I put on the fees.
>If I install Godot, will your company die?
>It would be extremely painful.
>They're a big company.
>For you.
>Was getting mocked part of your plan?
>Of course! Mr Sweeney refused our offer in favor of yours. We had to find out how to be more profitable
>Revenue share! I said revenue share.
>Well congratulations! You got yourselves backpedalling!
>Now what's the next step of your master plan?
>Crashing this stock... with no investors!
Godot is not a replacement for Unity. It has nowhere near the feature set. The commies acting like it is are just doing their typical "NOW IS THE TIME FOR OPEN SOURCE TO REIGN SUPREME!" bullshit they always do whenever something goes slightly wrong with some commercial software. It never plays out the way they expect.
I wonder who's behind this post...
So when is Blender supposed to take over from 3ds Max? Two more weeks?
Already happened.
Blender's okay, but I still prefer Maya. May just be because it's the first I learned but I just feel like it lets you do way more stuff without restrictions.
Specifically it's BOTH.
>200k lifetime installs AND $200k revenue in last 12 months
Free devs are entirely clear of this from the revenue threshold. They aren't looking to charge cheap fricks that don't have money, they only wanna target the ones they know have already made a profit they can start stealing from.
>3ds Max
who the frick is still using max? indians? autodesk abandoned that shit so long ago
What are you talking about? Autodesk does yearly released of 3ds max. It's still a very widely used product.
>What are you talking about?
my job experience, just because there is a new number at the end of a release it doesn't mean they added anything to it, its the same with mudbox, who the frick would use that over zbrush?
I don't know a single person who still uses Max, but I know plenty of maya and blender, users its just abandoned.
Last time I checked it still had a crash when you use a graphic tablet for skin weights paint like in 2012 version
That is fricking amazing.
Frick me!
I recently finished the Junior Programmer pathway and I am looking for a job...
Godot or Unreal have free certifications or badges??
Good morning, sir.
>I recently finished the Junior Programmer pathway
That literally only takes a few days to do. It's not like you've wasted years here.
Thread theme
Reminder to any unity devs uninstalling to go through %appdata% and clear out the folders there
some of those folders eat gigs in caching
No game should be generating cache files gigabytes in size. And they should be clearing their cache as part of shutdown procedures, not uninstallation procedures.
My old machine had over 100 gigs of cached bullshit in the unity appdata folders
It wasn't from games, it was from the editor
I just had a look at my own AppData folder and it was a few GBs but the vast majority of that was taken up by just two different versions of their compiler being stored there for some reason.
why would product developers in any industry want to be held hostage by a component vendor when there are alternatives
dumbest shit I've ever heard
There's a programmer/manager upset about my company changing to Unity.
He's gonna have a field day talking about "I told you so.".
UE WON!
I'm really wondering how someone will actually defend the idea of getting charged per install no matter how old your game is and pretend it's actually good for devs in the long run because you're gonna have to pull some major bullshit to get away with making THAT sound good on paper
>Costs Unity nothing when someone installs your game
>But they are going to charge you for it
Fricking Israelis
frick this nonsense gotta move my game
is godot decent?
Yes
if its 2d yes, if its 3d its not that great but you can manage
Can I export to HTML for itch.io in Godot 4 like I could in 3.5 so that is playable in browser yet?
Even if they retract absolutely eveything and say it was just a prank bro, no sane dev is going to put their game on unity ever again
it's like building your new house on sand
S to spit on indieshit and Unity slop
As a hobby developer that never plans to try to sell any games, I'm just gonna laugh at this and keep doing dumb shit in Unity.
>sell games
Anon if you ever plan to release your unity projects for free you might still get tagged if it gets past 200k installs.
It's 200k USD in revenue in the last 12 months (plus 100k installs) to trigger the threshold
Impossible for a free project to ever be charged like this
But if you sell your game for a very low price or otherwise earn little money per install (e.g. for free to play games) you could find yourself hitting the threshold and all of a sudden owing literally millions of dollars
>owing literally millions of dollars
Where are you getting that math?
It's 20 cents per install. 1/5th of a dollar. To owe millions you'd have to have 5 million installs (plus 200k I guess since the fee applies to installs AFTER both thresholds are met).
If you have some shitty mobile game that's somehow making enough microtransaction revenue to hit $200k and be downloaded 5 million times after, I'd really like to know what this game is.
There's lots of examples.
Go read through the Unity forums right now. there are companies that have 40 million + installs of mobile games, but have negative income as a result of operating costs (but still generate over 200k in sales), and now would in theory owe Unity $8,000,000 on top of their negative income kek
The fee only applies to new installs once the thing starts and you hit the thresholds.
If you're hosting some mobile game at a loss and you hit the fee threshold and start getting charged with it on top, I'm pretty sure most people would just pull their game from the app store to stop future installs. Not sure why they wouldn't have done that before if they're operating at such a huge loss already.
>charges more the worse a game does
Isn't that counterproductive? Literally the opposite of Unreal
>Isn't that counterproductive?
Yes. Everything about what Unity is proposing is counter intuitive, convoluted and just complicating everything massively leaving the whole thing wide open for corruption.
>Unless, of course, this is just a first step and they plan to slowly move back to their initial proposal in the end.
Bingo. ~~*They*~~ can easily manipulate the number of installs. ~~*They*~~ literally just found a way to control and artificially inflate "not-sales numbers" and charge developers for them with no recourse and no accountability whatsoever.
>make shitpost game, put it up for a dollar
>get a couple thousand off of it
>"alright cool"
>forget about it
>youtuber plays it
>wonder why you've been getting more money in your bank account
>dont really care, you need that money because the economy has gone to shit and its helping you keep a roof over your head.
>suddenly, bank statement from unity demanding 40k
Because Baldi's Basics and other shitty meme FOTM Zoomer baits never take off ever. Never ever.
FNaF and poppy playtime took off and now have merchandise in every store and make millions
Anon, he knows that. He was making a sarcastic joke about how indie shit blows up all the time, often times out of nowhere. This whole talking point about how "Oh devs will never hit the threshold", while true, is not worth the risk. A game you made in a weekend could suddenly reach mainstream popularity because some popular YouTuber played it once. It's more likely than you think.
oh no i run the risk of some streamer and zoomer kids buying my game and giving me money
reminder that once you're over the earning threshold any random idiot can spam installs and completely nuke your earnings. because they are autistic and dont like what the kids like.
And that's my problem how?
>"its not my problem if some guy spams 100 fresh installs a second with a bot and steals all my money"
It isn't, because i'm not a moronic dev who can't be arsed to code his own engine.
show me your engine then, homosexual.
I don't dwell my works with mere peasants.
It's still in development.
Unless you're eric barone or something, nobody cares.
Don't worry, ~~*TPMs*~~ will save the day!
People keep saying this, but honestly it's not the real problem.
Pretty sure Unity will have a way to tell if some game suddenly had a GIANT spike in installs. Even if you're spoofing location, hardware, IP, everything, there's probably going to be a way for devs to send a thing disputing the charge by going "hey, the game only sold this many and we somehow had 100x the installs, that's not right".
The real issue is the pirating community as a whole here. They're much more likely to up the install count in a slow and hard to track way, eating up additional income slowly. That's the kinda stuff where Unity will probably go "oh sorry, we can't do anything about that, you should have had better anti-piracy measures."
THat's probably the whole point of this focus on Installs: it means that they can blame Pirates for taking a little bit more than they say they will here. But they're not going to just try and take EVERYTHING and ignore an obvious botting case.
a israelite wrote this
watching whitoids and shit skins try so hard to deflect this is hilarious. we know what you're doing and you couldn't be more obvious.
Why did you even quote me you israelite apologist? SaaS is cancer and you can't deny it.
SHUT UP AND HAND OVER YOUR MONEY NOW!!!!!
I'm pointing out the israelite tactic here.
They're sneaky for a reason. They're not going to try and accept botting shit and take MILLIONS at once. That's too obvious. They'll certainly crack down on any blatant botting numbers.
>Your game has 1000x installs compared to purchases? Oh of course we won't charge you THAT much, let's just use our backend magic and cut that down...
>See, the real number is more like 5x installs to purchases, you can pay that, of course, right? 🙂
The point is they're clearly aiming for pirating numbers instead and insist on taking those hundreds or thousands monthly. That's the israelite way.
>Your game installed 3x more than purchases? Why, goyim, that could be from anything really, right?
is unity the first company to try and profit off of pirates?
Keep in mind that it's Unity that does the tracking based on what I'm reading. So, unless they give developers ways to look at the numbers they're generating, you'd have to hope that Unity actually does their due diligence, and does their best to cull the false reports. Currently, there is no guarantee they will, and depending on how they actually go about tracking installs, it may not even be possible. We just don't know, unless Unity specifically gives us all the technical details.
if it's a free game though you really are running a huge risk.
too many installs and suddenly that free game is costing you a shitload.
It needs to cross a revenue threshold
A free game can't incur these fees in the way they described
>make game
>don't pay the leeches a cent
>get sued
>tell them to get fricked
>lose or win, still don't pay the israelites a cent
lmao what are they going to fricking do about it lol?
dunno, anon. frick around and find out
>company announces big controversial change which is bound to produce complains
>uproar from userbase
>company surprised
>company backpaddles left and right
Why does this happen so often nowadays?
companies are controlled by marketing and financial execs these days, they have no idea how to make a good product, only how to make more money
>nowadays
Corporate greed is a constant
Because they are detached from each others too much.
Politicians nowadays don't even live a single peasant life.
They don't have to worry about money, healthcare, or even public transport being absolute shit.
So, why would you count on them to solve those issues, when they don't even understand the issue at all?
Same for businesses nowadays.
moron that don't develop games and don't even play games are in charge of the whole business related to gaming.
Why would they make good decisions that benefits the product?
Thank god I don't use a literal israeli spyware to develop games.
>make game
>call it a paid demo
>free money
They count demo installs too.
>make game
>call it a paid demo
>free money
Demos still get hit with the install fee. BUT, you could in theory just de-list and re-release the same game with a different name before it hits revenue thresholds/install thresholds repeatedly.
>He doesn't know,
They said demos count too
FRICK Black folk
Do they say anything about people who give away the games for free but have a patreon or whatever for donations?
free games still have to pay the fee
the only people who dont are people selling the game but giving the money to charity
my man asking the real questions.
Of course not
They can't even answer how the install data is gathered yet
The CEO literally came in stinking of jagermeister, threw the half empty bottle at the nearest intern and screamed that he wanted to frick a lot of people at once
By "backpedaling" you mean "revealing the actual intention all along." These things don't happen this fast.
>specifically says devs are not on the hook for game pass
>didn't say there are no fees for gamepass games
that kinda implies microsoft will have to pay them
>backpedaling after finally making a based move
Fricking cowards.
>be indiedev
>live in constant fear of passing the cursed 200k threshold
truly, this is hell
i wonder how many cheap and obscure unity games will get a sudden "boost" in sales and installs
Imagine making a game so offensive to conservative snowflakes and then psyoping an advertisement campaign on /misc/ to make them buy it in protest/boycott because its made in unity.
Once it's close to 200,000 take it off the market and cash in on your profits :^)
Uhhh...on the bright side this could thin out the Unity asset flips that make up 90% of the games on Steam I guess?
They don't even make any money besides clogging up the steam searches
Good, Unity always fricking sucked and indiegays who used it always made shit games with terrible memory issues.
They've already crushed all trust in them. They're still trying to make things worse and the fact that they tried to strongarm this at all knowing how much power they have over this market means they could easily try to ease right back into it by boiling the frog. I sincerely hope devs start looking for other options.
This is only a good thing.
Fricking 'indiedevs' should learn how to fricking code their own engines, quirky 2d turn based RPG that is secretly about depression doesn't need fricking unity and im tired of all the shitty assetflips and low effort 2.5d platformers with no soul because someone watched a tutorial on how to make castlevania in unity and added their half cooked sprites to a bunch of levels made out of unity asset store prefabs
You don't program.
moron
Here's the example Unity themselves used on their site explaining the change:
>For example, let’s look at a hypothetical game made by a team using Unity Pro with the following revenue and install numbers:
>Revenue from last 12 months - $2M USD
>Lifetime installs - 5M
>The Unity Runtime Fee will apply to this game, as it surpasses the $1M revenue and 1M lifetime install thresholds for Unity Pro. >Let’s look at the game’s installs from the last month:
>Prior month installs (Standard fee countries) - 200K
>Prior month installs (Emerging market fee countries) - 100K
>The fee for install activity is $23.5K USD, calculated as follows:
>(100K x $0.15 (first tier for standard fee countries)) + (100K x $0.075 (second tier for standard fee countries)) + (100K x $0.01 (fee for emerging market countries)) = $23.5K USD
Of course, for the Personal (free) license it's a flat 20 cent fee. So in that case if you had 300k installs in that last week, you'd be charged $60k for that month in fees.
Overall, I think the safest bet would be to just raise any game price on Unity by like, $1. That'd account for 5 installs per purchase which would probably break you even if you're doing well enough to pass their thresholds to trigger the fee.
Depending on how the installs are tracked, it still wouldn't stop bad actors from just screwing you over with some virtual machine setups.
Yeah, needs some major safety to ensure there's no spoofing issues.
But most people would only ever install once. So if you're upping the cost by 5x the expected installs ($1), then you have a 5x(number of normal people) install buffer that'll give room to notice any spoofing BS and report it.
Now, if that setup can account for the amount of pirates is a whole other ballpark.
Yeah, with pirates in the worst case the best you can do is hope that the pirates disable the telemetry or DRM in the executables they share around. If they don't, and Unity doesn't account for the possibility of pirates, then it's going to be royally fricked.
So that's on top of Unity fees for commercial use?
What fees are there? I keep seeing people claim there's other fees but I can't find info on them specifically.
The only extra fee I've seen is the license cost itself.
Before all this, you HAD to get a Plus license ($700+ a year) if your company made $100k in profit, or a Pro license ($2000+ a year) if you made $200k in profit.
Supposedly, with this change, they're removing Plus as an option but also removing that requirement. So I think this is now the only true fee for free users. And that's why they make it lower for Pro and Enterprise accounts, as a way to incentivize putting in that $2k/month subscription to avoid like over 50% of the install fee.
So how does Unity enforce the payment, other than blocking your ability to use the engine?
>mostly
Hilarious.
My point from the previous shit flinging with you apologist morons still stands. ALL Unity games are compromised because they're phoning home to register UUIDs to track this shit. They're sending YOUR data to their servers regardless of whether the dev knew it or not. If you have a Unity game on your PC you effectively have SPYWARE on your system RIGHT NOW!
>If you have a Unity game on your PC you effectively have SPYWARE on your system RIGHT NOW!
Israeli spyware to be exact.
do you use linux? if not, your data has been sold.
have you ever used any google owned site? if so, your data has been sold.
ever downloaded a game of chinese origin? data sold.
any kind of modern anticheat? believe it or not, data sold.
uhhhhh. source?
>Unity could alter the terms and services and force every dev to pay them 1 million dollars flat and they can frick their wives and they legally can't do anything about it
What a scummy company.
>"more than three months of notice"
>september 12, two and two thirds of a month
the window is there, someone just has to seize it.
>we can do it because we say so! What? You're not from the blessed country of US with A? You're from a country where big corporations have some limits and can't do everything they want? Doesn't matter, sorry!
This is so moronic. I hope they get destroyed in courtrooms all over the world
>This is so moronic. I hope they get destroyed in courtrooms all over the world
Oh don't worry about it they're gonna get destroyed in the united states. The courts do not like debt traps, and I don't know what lawyer they went to speak with about not falling afoul of other countries protections against predatory contracts but whoever he is they should fire him.
>moron doesn't understand how a SERVICE works
Not feeling so hot about ~~*SaaS*~~ when you get burned by it, eh you c**ts? Hopefully this teaches devs that ~~*SaaS*~~ is cancer.
Captcha STDWD
>This is so moronic.
Sorry, it's how contracts work: take it or leave it.
If you don't like something, take us to court (if you can afford it lol).
>I have altered the deal
>Pray that I do not alter it any further
This is literally Disney villain tier, what the frick is this reality?
>tfw this just literally wouldn't work in muh country
they could change existing fees, but not add new fees even if the contract states it since that fundamentally changes the contract and so it becomes a new contract and legally requires re-negotiation
they could terminate it, but then *they* would have to pay for lost business
that is to say, it would be treated like any other continuous supplier contract like lumber or coal or whatever.
>Further, our terms are governed by California law, notwithstanding the country of the customer.
These kinds of clauses don't apply in the EU in general
>These kinds of clauses don't apply in the EU in general
NOOOOO DELETE THIS YOU CAN'T SAY THIS IT WILL WAKE UP THE GOYIM. ONLY ONLY WHAT'S ON THE STANDARD-FORM CONTRACTERINO APPLIES!
the changes are to the licensing agreement specifically. not the same thing. they have thought this through
tell me more about the laws of my country
what country is that? india perhaps?
>india
>mentioned the EU in my post
I love to joke about americans being functionally illiterate but come on now
Hello sirs!
God damn what a moron you are, you got outed and still pretending you won
Making it always online was singlehandedly enough for me to stop using them, but if they roll back the $.20 bullshit at least that won't frick up a ton of games for everyone.
>only the initial
that still doesn't matter
>mash f5 in browser
>developer loses money
Unity browser games used to be somewhat popular, do people still do that?
Distribution via streaming doesn't mean twitch, don't be stupid.
I was thinking more in line with
....so they're making this even easier to get screwed over?
name unity games to hit f5 repeatedly to
>only the initial installation
Why even bother at that point? This is just another sales tax since # of installs will be equal to (or lower) than # of sales. Might as well just charge $0.2 per copy sold and call it a day rather than overcomplicating shit with install tracking and having to make exceptions for a bunch of edge cases and shit. Unless, of course, this is just a first step and they plan to slowly move back to their initial proposal in the end.
F2P games will have to pay too. Gacha games will be hit hard.
But Unity already charges % of income doesn't it? Just add a few % more and there's their 20 cents. And if they don't charge % of income then maybe they should instead of this opaque bullshit.
>Unless, of course, this is just a first step and they plan to slowly move back to their initial proposal in the end.
Exactly. It would be far easier for them to just charge the extra 20 cents per copy sold and they'd even make more money off the ones that never end up getting installed. The fact they're sticking with installs is extremely telling what their end goal still is.
What's the end goal? Trying to go after pirates?
Their original plan of charging for every install. Boil the frog and all that.
Of course that's not the REAL endgoal, there's never an endgoal to monetization for fricks like this, they'll always try to weasel in new ways to pilfer pockets.
>What's the end goal?
Freemium games (genshit, other mobage, etc) make hand over fist, execs want some of that money then they golden parachute out of the company.
they want to kill many birds with the same stone:
>get a piece of the F2P gacha garbage and asset flip pie
>maximize short-term profits and generate a stock crash (CEO sold his stake over the past year which should be enough of a clue)
>strangle indie devs by forcing them to waste money on draconian DRM or bleed to death via fees (they promised not to charge for pirate installs but god knows how that will turn out)
>open up any dev to fraudulent fees (anyone can spam the reinstall button). this will most likely result in monthly game activation limits
The end goal is more money. They're taking a page from the tried and true ISP's "obtuse and hidden fees" billing method where rather than openly listing how much shit will cost upfront they add a bunch of vague, situational, largely unverifiable charges that you have no way of knowing how much they will affect you. On top of allowing them to advertise a lower price than what you will end up paying, these opaque fees also allow them to just pump up everyone's prices one month if they're falling short of their targets and since they're impossible to verify 99% will just pay rather than contesting the charges. Of course it remains to be seen how this will affect consumers since devs and publishers will eagerly pass those costs downwards.
Which shithole do you live in where ISPs can add random fees to your bill, I've never even heard of that before. As in data-capped plans going over the limit or what?
The biggest shithole there is: The United States of North America.
Wait, what???
America's shitty ISPs are the only thing keeping corporations in check from trying to make gaming subscription and cloud based so there's at least that silver lining.
For the people who actually works in game dev, what do recommend? Change to Godot, Unreal? Stick with Unity?
Real game devs use source
You have to be deranged to stick with unity.
Either move to unreal or godot.
If you want an engine with pretty mainstream support, Unreal or even Game Maker. For more open source alternatives, there are plenty options aside from Godot, and the choice may depend on what you actually want to do.
Plugins (like the unity web plugin) went out of fashion in browsers, instead being replaced by other approaches. Not sure what Unity's current method of distributing in-browser games is, if there is one.
>Change to Godot
Do not fall for the commie bullshit. Godot is not a replacement for Unity. It is severely lacking in comparison. You can only transition to Godot if you were making something very simple like a VN.
Unitrannies keep losing.
If you're an expect game dev that could probably make his own engine anyway then yeah, you can use Godot. If you're a limited knowledge amateur, which you are if you're using Unity, Godot is going to be a nightmare for you.
>he thinks unity isn't already a fricking nightmare
ask any dev about their experience every time unity updates
At this point? FOSS. No exception. I can easily see Unreal trying to pull something similar with Timmy behind the wheel, especially after their only real competitor just made it so easy for them to do while still looking like the good guy. If we can take this and turn into giving something like Godot the support that Blender has, it'll be a huge boon for the industry.
Timmy is not ricitello, ricitello has always been a total moron with no actual insight into game deisgn or development. The problem at Unity seems to be that no one in charge knows how their product functions, how it will continue to be used or even the law.
Since when has Timmy also not been a total moron? Ricitello is also filthy fricking rich so I don't see how being rich somehow makes Timmy less of a weasel. We know he's willing to screw people over with Epic and is a flagrant hypocrite. Just because Ricitello doesn't make him look as evil doesn't mean he's somehow good now.
>Since when has Timmy also not been a total moron? Ricitello is also filthy fricking rich so I don't see how being rich somehow makes Timmy less of a weasel. We know he's willing to screw people over with Epic and is a flagrant hypocrite. Just because Ricitello doesn't make him look as evil doesn't mean he's somehow good now.
Let me put it this way if TimTIm is somewhere around 85iq, the nricitello is somewhere in 30s, he's just an exceptionally successful thief.
I dunno man, I can just easily see Timmy using this to milk more money out of Unreal. Competition is vital and their only real competition just gutted themselves out of sheer asinine levels of greed. Timmy is "smarter" yes, he's smart enough not to capitalize on this immediately, but I can easily see it coming down the line unless Unity immediately walks all this back and somehow doesn't lose a huge chunk of their consumer base.
>I dunno man, I can just easily see Timmy using this to milk more money out of Unreal.
He doesn't need to do anything for it to make him more money, Unity developers simply moving to Unreal will do that.
It's literally a case of...
Do nothing
Win
...for Epic.
>I dunno man, I can just easily see Timmy using this to milk more money out of Unreal. Competition is vital and their only real competition just gutted themselves out of sheer asinine levels of greed. Timmy is "smarter" yes, he's smart enough not to capitalize on this immediately, but I can easily see it coming down the line unless Unity immediately walks all this back and somehow doesn't lose a huge chunk of their consumer base.
You can think it as a bit of a loss leader for them but for the most part since they also use unreal to make their own games it's basically just win/win. Timmy hasn't fricked with it for 15 years I don't see him starting anytime soon, the possibility exists as you say.
>Since when has Timmy also not been a total moron? Ricitello is also filthy fricking rich so I don't see how being rich somehow makes Timmy less of a weasel.
Ricitello literally had to resign from EA after running it into the ground financially, Tim turned Epic into a company worth 30+ billion.
I fully appreciate you're emotionally invested in your steam library, and I genuinely get it, my team > your team tribalism is perfectly natural, but stop conflating your entirely emotional reaction with reality.
Ricitello doesn't care, he's got infinite golden parachutes and EA is still around and happily being evil. This has nothing to do with Valve, I'm going off of Timmy's actions. I think you're projecting here, you're the one with the emotional investment in probably Unreal, doubt it's the Epic store. You want to believe it can't happen to you, and I get that. But it can happen to you.
>I'm going off of Timmy's actions.
What actions?
Unreal Engine has been available to everyone, free of charge for 25 years, no monthly subscription to use it, no limits on it's use, they just take a cut if you start making serious bank off it. They currently take 5% after you've made your first million.
Timmy has a better track record for being pro-developer than literally any company in the history of game development.
>I can easily see Unreal trying to pull something similar with Timmy behind the wheel
The same Timmy that has given his engines away for free for a quarter of a century and only takes a cut after devs become literal millionaires? Quit trying to invent boogey men, come back to reality. Tims already made a cool ten billion, what he does has clearly fricked worked for him, I can't see him wanting to change it up, if anything he'll probably make it even easier for people to port from Unity to Unreal.
>given his engines away for free for a quarter of a century and only takes a cut after devs become literal millionaires
Sounds extremely similar to unity.
>Sounds extremely similar to unity.
It's literally nothing like Unity. Now go and pay your monthly subscription for using Unity and don't forget to give Unity a 20 cent tip for every install they claim has occurred of your game despite their analytics being so shit that they show unreleased games being made by solo devs being installed and played by people all over the planet.
Unity has been charging developers more than Unreal has, for longer than Unreal's current revenue share model. Unity has simply been a popular engine with newcomers, even if there have been cheaper alternatives alongside it the whole time.
APOLOGIZE
Sumimasen Tim-dono.
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大
>can bankrupt the dev by installing and reinstalling the game if you bought it
>nothing happens if you pirate and block it in firewall
Pirates were supposed to be bad?
>Pirates were supposed to be bad?
NOOOOOOO DELETE THIS IT MAKES PIRATES LOOK GOOD
Say it with me now:
Hitler
Was
Right
He's italian.
Oh? Sicilian israeli descent? Figures
>He's italian.
His last name literally means curly haired and rich in italian. It might as well be Italian for israelite.
well, time to go back to physical releases indybros
Too late, the lack of trust will trigger an exodus. Nobody wants to deal with someone that greedy.
Why cant they charge similarly to UE, flat 5% after some threshold, clear and simple.
That's what it was previously.
On top of you paying a yearly subscription fee if you were using anything but the free edition.
Most of their userbase is tiny indies who make no money so they had to come up with some miserly penny pinching to make any money. UE makes all its money off mega hits so the low end is more about increasing mindshare than profit.
You need to have both 200k USD grossed and 200k installs within the same period to get charged by this. As such, the intention is to go after freemium games, because that way they'd earn money from installs.
>200k
I'll repeat they go after indies who make no money. 200k after valve, the government and unity takes their cut is 100k or less. For the amount of time it takes to make a game capable of selling that much this is less than minimum wage.
Again, keep in mind that it's both 200k grossed and 200k installs. Most indies don't sell their games at 1 dollar per unit, so to reach 200k installs (for the most part, so long there isn't any tampering via piracy or whatever) would generate more significant amount of gross revenue than 200k. A game selling 30k copies could very well generate above 400k in gross revenue as-is.
That's besides the point, they are setting the profit cap low because they want to extract money from low earners. If they planned to make no money from that target why set the cap there? The way the rule was initially implemented I have no idea what 200k installs even equates to in terms of userbase.
>200k USD
is it total revenue or profit?
>is it total revenue or profit?
Revenue, Unity doesn't care about your running costs.
According to their wording, it seems to be gross revenue.
>Why cant they charge similarly to UE, flat 5% after some threshold, clear and simple.
Why only take a cut from your developers once when you can take a cut from them every time a customer installs a game, puts the game on a new device etc
This enables Unity to quite literally make up any quasi sales... I mean "install" figures they want and take their cut accordingly.
>flat 5% after some threshold
Funny thing is, if this system worked without any possible exploits/frickups (so 1 purchase = 1 install), the flat 20 cent fee would actually be better than a 5% fee on all games over $4.
So if the system worked, it'd be BETTER than before.
But no, they have to go with BS they can fudge by making it installs and instantly multiplying the amount by how much the game gets pirated.
What if a game is free to play and vast majority of players pay no money (like genshin)?
>demos "mostly" won't trigger fees
I'm getting the hell outta here
>WAITWAITWAIT... uh, gehehehe... we meant to say, we'll only charge you for the FIRST installation on a per-user basis!
>Demos? gurehm... ahaha, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it........
As much as I want to like Godot it's just missing too many key features for my project. I need hair simulation and accurate softbodies at minimum in order for me to consider switching engines and unfortunately Unity has the best implementation of simulations due to their partnership with Alembic.
I mean, I doubt your porn game was gonna break $200k revenue, so you should be fine still.
>I doubt porn games break $200k revenue
Anon...
>manually types a different sentence
>acts like he gotem
Nothing happens immediately. I just hope this gives Godot the push to really become viable as people look for alternatives. It's already come a long way.
Godot is never going to happen. They are implementing features in 2024 that unreal has had since the early 2000s and unity has had for almost a decade. Maybe in another 10-15 years they will be where ue5 is right now.
People were saying the exact same thing with Blender back when anyone cared about Maya or 3DS Max.
Blender had a much faster dev cycle than Godot has. At current pace Godot isn't gonna make it.
>occlusion culling only in mid 2021
It's really in a bad state.
Nah, blender was a complete joke for longer than godot has been alive, they toiled in complete obscurity for 20 years before everyone realised they had surpassed proprietary software.
Godot hasn't been around for that long and only started getting into 3D very recently. If I didn't know any better I'd say you wanted it to fail. Why?
>They are implementing features in 2024 that unreal has had since the early 2000s
The frick are you even takling about schizo?
What does Satania have to do with Unity?
Open youtube and look at any Godot changelog breakdown or any indie doing devlogs about optimizing in godot. Let me sum it up for you
>no way guys Godot finally got *thing everyone had 20 years ago* this is a BIG DEAL!
>you can now precompile your shaders without using a hack workaround in the year of our lord 2023!
>yeah so basically my game was running like shit, so I paid a Godot dev to troubleshoot my code and it turns out the game doesn't deactivate far objects by default or properly garbage collect on destroy so I implemented those
>in the year of our lord 2023!
go back
This was exactly the same as blenders dev cycle, poorly implementing shit that other 3d software had pioneered ages ago. Blender is still shit at many things and their implementations are still clumsy, it just passed the minimum bar of usability for mass adoption.
counter-point: you are not getting fricked by corporate licensing meaning you maintain a far higher degree of income security also that shit is free homie
I mean yeah, but unreal's licensing is hardly unfair to the average indie. It is effectively free unless you become a sensation and make a million bucks.
Good thing indie devs are making games from 20 years ago then. They are keeping pace with where indie games are, not aaa.
>Hurr Durr Unity
If you frickers let this happen, it will become a industry norm and soon everybody will start charging per install.
You frickers better kill the evil while it's in the crib.
the actions of the common man mean nothing when a few giants own most of the world.
all we can do is pull all support and hope that companies like nintendo and mihoyo sue the frick out of them.
All you have to do is make noises and stand behind the back of the developers (big or small) that decides to fight against them.
Nintendo uses unity? You'd think valve would be pretty pissed that 80% of indies are going to want to pull their games to prevent more downloads.
yeah a few nintendo games do. you can actually look at the pokemon franchise as your biggest example, but i remember reading its about 30% of their games/profit.
Huh. You'd think they'd of all corporations would be making their own proprietary engines for everything.
It's expensive to make and maintain, you basically cut a ton of cost by using someone else's engine.
They need the cheap labor from fresh out of college students who likely already know Unity/Unreal rather than having to spend the time teaching them how to use proprietary engines.
Nintendo has begun to start using Unreal, too
They also used unreal engine for the most recent yoshi game and the links awakening remake
Partly because those games were developed by third-party studios outside Nintendo, where Nintendo more or less provided supervision. Not every studio or company has the resources Nintendo has.
It's about targeting freemium games (that either get by microtransactions, or via in-game ads), because Unity has been relatively popular for those. The traditional game that's sold with a pricetag won't be hit as hard, because you need to have decently big hit on your hands to reach 200k installs.
>If you frickers let this happen, it will become a industry norm and soon everybody will start charging per install.
>You frickers better kill the evil while it's in the crib.
It doesn't matter they're going to get buttfricked in court.
>you
You're talking like any singular person here has the responsibility or the means to change any of this.
Now next Pathfinder/Other Owlcat game will be different Engine, maybe they'll buy licence of Divinity Engine which might support weird 1e rules like pulling the rug out of enemies
I find it amusing that probably nobody would've thought about redownloading a shitty game over and over until some moron trying to b***h about people potentially discriminating against them said something
Unironically, how to start with ue if my shitty pc cant run the engine? Learn c++? Any advice?
Use godot, if you cant even run the fricking engine how are you supposed to learn it?
If you have a shitty pc use godot. Even potatos can run godot.
And if you are still stubborn and want to use unreal (like I did on a 10 year old laptop) you can do these to still run it
>Open the console with tilde key ~ and type: t.maxfps 30 to limit the editor fps. Can go lower if you want
>Open the scalability settings, set everything to medium or low, and lower the resolution scale to like 50%
>turn off real-time in the viewport, so the engine could usage drops way down unless you are playtesting
> Devs not on the hook for game pass.
Microsoft didn't like that
> Demos "mostly" won't trigger fees
kek
> Initial installation
But an extra fee will be charged if a user installs a game on a second device, say a Steam Deck after installing a game on a PC.
VM bros we won
>make game free
>open a patreon
Wow that was hard
Free to play games also count. Infact, F2P games is their major target. Millions of unity games are installed on mobile devices world wide.
My game makes $0 revenue
And now your game is going to make negative revenue shithead.
Only if he gets 200k in gross and 200k installs
Is not the small indie dev that have to pay for the Gamepass installation but they put the onus on Microsoft.
So that is one installation for every Xcloud server minimum, (Gamepass has 25 million users), plus all their games on Xbox, Windows store and Steam.