Here's mine: The expansive water routes of Hoenn are actually really cool.
I feel like ORAS gives them a bad rap because they're more tiny and compact in those games, but in the original RSE the water routes don't hold your hand and really give off the impression that you're exploring the high seas. It's entirely possible to get lost in these areas, but that's what makes them so fulfilling to thoroughly explore. They're packed with secrets and extra content. Picrel is a great example; by using Dive on this route you can reach a hidden island that contains Rare Candies, vitamins, Heart Scales and other goodies. Need I mention the other secret areas like Mirage Island, Abandoned Ship and the Regi chambers? The water routes rock, 'nuff said.
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Dive was so fricking cool. I'm pissed they did away with it.
I just dislike the wild Pokémon pool. It's a VERY poor design choice. It feels like it's always like:
>wingull
>tentacool
>pelipper
Why didn't they give the high sea some better distribution with variety between each sea route? Some routes could have a smaller pool like:
>Sharpedo, wingull, tentacool, tentacruel
>Wailord, wingull, carvanha, tentacool
>Luvdisc, seadra, wailmer, staryu
But nope. Same boring shit from last gens.
>wingull
>tentacool
>pelipper
Have you been swimming at a beach? This doesn't seem too inaccurate. It's mostly jellyfish, seagulls and the occasional larger sea bird.
This is Pokémon, where dragons exist, not the summer vacations simulator.
that doesn't make it fun.
Reality is not fun.
Have you ever swam in the tropics? The biodiversity there is insane. If anything, it'd be more accurate for the routes to be packed full of unique fishmons.
Reality is often disappointing
have u ever seen pokemon in real life?
Yes. I often see Pidoves in the city.
This, also my mom owns a Lillipup
Use the fishing rods, otherwise you're stuck to the service
I'm complaining about the pokémon variety when traveling the sea, not the potential choices to build a team. If I have to rely on using repels to avoid seeing the same tentacool, wingull and pelipper on EVERY sea route that's a design flaw. There are 7 sea routes or something, no excuse to repeat the same three Pokémon.
To be fair, it wouldn't make sense for other Water-types to appear there. Since you mentioned Carvanha & Sharpedo, it should be noted that they're both said to live in rivers that course through jungles, which coincides with their encounter locations in the temperate, Eastern half of the mainland. If there's one thing Hoenn does right, it's making the map feel grounded in reality through the gradual changes in landscapes and the Pokemon native to each new area. It would take away from the believability if you could find random Water-types like Corphish, Barboach or Feebas in the ocean routes because they're all said to live in fresh water only.
Besides, the wild encounters aren't all that lacking once you account for dive spots and fishing.
>Wingull
>Chinchou
>Tentacool
>Clamperl
>Wailord
>Corsola
>Relicanth
>Luvdisc
>Horsea
I'd say they pushed the encounter pool to its limit while still maintaining believability.
Variety over believability. Nothing wrong with moving the shark family to the sea and making the surfing experience more enjoyable considering it is almost 1/2 of the map. These would be enough:
>Sharpedo/Carvanha
>Wingull/Pelipper
>Wailmer/Wailord,
>Horsea/Seadra
>tentacool/tentacruel
>Luvdisc
Leave the rest to the rods and dive. There are still plenty of rare choices.
>Variety over believability.
I wholeheartedly disagree. This mentality is what led to the bloated routes from XY onward that include a surplus amount of encounters in order to satisfy kiddies with short attention spans. If you want different encounters use different encounter methods; that's why they were included in the game in the first place.
>This mentality is what led to [better games I need to invent meme complaints for to force the narrative that the newer games are magically bad]
Come back when you have an actual argument, dipshit.
You first.
>no you see it's actually a bad thing that routes actually have replayability and random encounters have a point instead of pointlessly wasting your time with showing bidoof on the screen for the 69th time before you click the run button because I need to make up arbitrary game design rules to force my shitty childhood games into being good!!
Despite what everyone says, the encounter tables for the ocean routes don't NEED to be extravagant. There are still a plethora of new encounters available to you in the tail end of RSE, but the ocean routes are meant purely for exploration. So quit judging them on the basis that they have lackluster encounter tables. You've been able to catch almost every other Water-type up until that point elsewhere and if you want to catch the new encounters you need to utilize new encounter methods like fishing and diving. Who would've thought? Almost like it's basic game design?
And I'm not pulling fake rules out of my ass either. The Pokedex from Gen III displays the habitat of each mon and with the exception of gift-mons, their habitats all correlate with their respective encounter locations. It's clear that Gamefreak prioritized believability when deciding on the encounter tables. Nowadays they don't care as much because it's been made evidently clear that mushy-brained morons like yourself would rather play nu-gen garbage that trades out gratifying game design and simple worldbuilding in exchange for being able to obtain a free Charmander immediately after obtaining the first badge. You're a b***h, blow me.
>the encounter tables for the ocean routes don't NEED to be extravagant
Yes they do. Otherwise the game has no reason to interrupt me a moronicly high number of times with 15 second long loading screens.
>but the ocean routes are meant purely for exploration
Then they shouldn't have random encounters.
>Who would've thought? Almost like it's basic game design?
Basic game design is padding the game with pointless shit?
>The Pokedex from Gen III displays the habitat of each mon
Game Freak can invent whatever habitat for the Pokemon they want. Stop pretending they had to make the game exactly the way they shat it out.
>Nowadays they don't care as much because it's been made evidently clear that mushy-brained morons like yourself would rather play nu-gen garbage that trades out gratifying game design and simple worldbuilding
Being interrupted so I can see Tentacool on the screen for the 69th time isn't gratifying game design or simple worldbuilding. It's just bad game design.
>the game has no reason to interrupt me a moronicly high number of times
Max repels exist for a reason.
>they shouldn't have random encounters
Max repels exist for a reason.
>Basic game design is padding the game with pointless shit?
Nope. In Gamefreak's case, basic game design is distributing new encounters in a believable, gradual manner that doesn't cause routes to feel bloated and interchangeable. Hoenn can be split up into 5 or so biomes and every encounter feels like it belongs in the biome it resides in. They didn't throw random shit in every area just to appease the zoomer playerbase. If RSE is guilty of padding out the game with useless shit, I can't even imagine how you must feel about XY. Picrel is the definition of padding, and it's like this in every route. Useless bullshit in every area that you'll never use. They didn't even bother to attempt immersive worldbuilding and wanted to take the safe way out.
>Stop pretending they had to make the game exactly the way they shat it out
I'm not pretending, dipshit, I'm bringing to light a fact. This is how encounters were handled back then, end of story.4
>Being interrupted so I can see Tentacool on the screen for the 69th time isn't gratifying game design or simple worldbuilding
Again, ocean routes are meant purely for exploration and criticizing them on the basis of their shallow encounter tables is dumb. It's gratifying game design because cool designs like Feebas, Corphish and Carvanha have intricate encounter methods and cannot be encountered by surfing in the ocean for 10 seconds. If you want to use them on your team, you can obtain them well before you reach the ocean routes. If you want new encounters by the time you reach the ocean routes, either use the new encounter methods or wait till Victory Road or Meteor Falls.
I like how you choose which replies you engage with because you know that you're arguing in bad faith so you ignore the arguments you can't refute with some bullshit.
Or y'know, maybe it's 3 in the morning and I don't feel like replying to every anon in the thread. Nobody here has refuted my points yet.
>Nobody here has refuted my points yet.
You are obnoxious. I literally refuted your argument that SHARKS can't be in the ocean just because it's pre-evo (Carvanha) is said to live in the rivers and you ignored it.
There are so many logical realistic explanations to let that happen:
>Rivers lead to the ocean
>Sharks live in salt water
>There are sea animals that CAN also live in the river
But nope, let's ignore the perfectly realistic option of having Sharpedo in the ocean.
Why couldn't Wailmer or even a shitmon like Luvdisc be included in order to get more wild encounter variety?
Oh but let's also ignore that people here are not discussing they can't dive or fish in order to add more water Pokémon to their teams but instead are complaining about how bad of a design it is to have +7 sea routes with the same 3 random Pokémon encounters (tentacool, wingul, pelipper).
Tell me why this variety couldn't be executed in order to create a better experience to the player when traveling 1/2 (HALF) the map:
>Sharpedo *NEW* - rare
>Wailmer *NEW* - common
>Wailord *NEW* - rare
>Seadra *NEW* - common
>Luvdisc *NEW* - uncommon
>Wingull - common
>Pelipper - uncommon
>Tentacool - common
>Tentacruel *NEW* - uncommon
But nope, creating a bland sea exploration is definitely a good design. You are a biased hoenngay that holds a grudge towards nugens and this discussion clearly leads nowhere.
NTA, but I'd note Sharpedo already does have ocean encounters. They're just Super Rod encounters. So the excuse that they'd somehow live only in rivers is extra moronic.
Wailmer surfing around should be even more obvious. Whales need to surface. You see wailmer on the surface in Lilycove. It makes far more sense to find a whale on the surface than it does to pull one up with a fishing rod.
That said, I am unsure if RSE's water encounter tables have the space for a dozen encounters on any given sea route, but at the very least swapping around the 5% chance of a Pelipper for a different species on each water route would have been doable at a minimum.
>Max repels exist for a reason.
Why is the game making me use repels?
>basic game design is distributing new encounters in a believable, gradual manner that doesn't cause routes to feel bloated and interchangeable
That's what they did in XY.
>Hoenn can be split up into 5 or so biomes and every encounter feels like it belongs in the biome it resides in
Nothing about this requires making the encounters repetitive dogshit.
>They didn't throw random shit in every area
They didn't do that in XY either.
>Picrel is the definition of padding
No, padding is spamming the game with Tentacool and Wingull random encounters to artificially inflate the playtime.
>I'm not pretending, dipshit, I'm bringing to light a fact
You haven't established any facts. Your entire argument is "it's good that they made it the way they did because they made it the way it did".
>Again, ocean routes are meant purely for exploration
Then why are there random encounters?
>The Pokedex from Gen III displays the habitat of each mon
they only did that in FRLG, and not in Hoenn
I meant realistic variety. There is not a single reason why almost 10 sea routes all share the same THREE pokémon:
>tentacool
>wingull
>pelipper
I'm not talking about having a bigger pool to catch more Pokémon, because if that's the intention then just dive or fish something else. I'm talking about designing a better experience to the player when traveling 1/2 of the map.
Adding the shark family to the sea is the only point you seem to be reluctant about, and even that could work if Carvanha remained out of the sea routes and only Sharpedo could be found there. I see no reason why tropical high sea routes should be as bland as they were in Hoenn. I believe this would be a cool pool to have (obviously not all together in the same places):
Regular water tiles:
>Sharpedo *NEW* - rare
>Wingull
>Pelipper
>Wailmer *NEW*
>Wailord *NEW* - rare
>Horsea *NEW*
>Seadra *NEW*
>tentacool
>tentacruel
>Luvdisc *NEW*
Dive:
>Unchanged
Fishing Rods:
>Unchanged
I think the problem is low variety combined with high encounter rate. you can maybe get away with one or the other, but not both. it's also a lot of routes that have really similar encounter tables. even just giving a couple routes different, but still small encounter tables would go a long way
8 is fine for one route and all of those Pokèmon make sense to be here. Gens 8 & 9 are when it feels like they just throw everything into an are haphazardly.
Love dat lil homie.
Completely agree but I think Wailmer could've been a surf encounter at the very least just for the sake of variety.
Certainly a case of "too much water". There are 3 methods of encounter within Hoenn's sea routes, surfing, fishing, and diving, which they all want to have Pokémon exclusive to in a limited pool of viable species. Combine that with half the region being sea routes and you have nonstop Wingull and Tentacool for a third of the game. Compare that to the land routes where all you do is either walk around in grass and caves or rarely, smash rocks.
Two ways they could've done to fix the lack of distribution would've been to have almost every sea Pokémon available between the 3 methods, but more common through some than others (e.g. Luvdisc can be found while diving, but is more common through fishing, Relicanth is still dive only, etc.) and add more flying Pokémon while surfing closer to the mainland.
they needed to use their fishmons better for variety. wailmer and sharpedo should have been surfing encounters on certain routes. corsola too. hell, let's throw in staryu as well. oh, and horsea. maybe gyarados? there's a lot to choose from.
they are definitely not as bad as people make them out to be, most of them are pretty interesting, and they're all concentrated at the end of the game and largely optional. I'll never understand people who claim the game is 90% water. I think the biggest issue and why they're really hated is, as said above, the dogshit encounter tables. what could have been really cool routes are bogged down by running into a pellipper or tentacool every 5 seconds and that's all anyone will ever remember.
who asked?
Your prostitute mother did right after giving her roast beef a quick wash in the sink.
forced exp share is objectively a good thing and there has never been an argument proving otherwise
Its hilarious how immediately recognizable your opinions are, I don't even need to call you by name, I guarentee other anons here can tell too
>Y-YOU'RE OPINIONS ARE RECOGNIZABLE!!
yeah that tends to happen when no one can prove them wrong and it results in them living rent free in your head out of pure seethe
"rent free" doesn't really apply when you're on here every day posting the same shit.
note how neither of these are actual arguments
nobody cares to argue. i'm not gonna stop downtown to argue with the schizophrenic yelling doomsday prophecies either, doesn't make him right.
>nobody cares to argue
yeah because none exists
let him stew in his autism
Yea yea man, we've been through this a million times
>My opinions are le objective!! Prove me wrong!
>Opinions are opinions, other people simply have different taste and enjoy different things
>Grrrr! Not an argument!
And so on and so forth. It was fun for a while but I've had my fill by now, maybe another day when I have some time to kill
you're right, the earth isn't round because some people simply have different taste and enjoy thinking it's flat
Man, I've been here for so long I remember the days that you'd deny it at first. I hope you never leave man, you're literally a staple character of this board, you're like a homeless guy who lives just outside my building who I say hi to on my way to work every morning
hi yawngay
hi yawngay
I like them a lot in concept, because, as you say, they're kind like exploring the high seas in the best way, but I feel like they missed the mark. They just needed to go a LITTLE harder, something as little as making the encounter tables a little more varied even.
I should note that I still don't consider them a problem at all though because they're almost entirely optional, that was a stroke of genius on gamefreaks part, it allows you to skip them if you don't feel in the mood while also making them feel more rewarding to explore if you choose to since its entirely of your own accord.
LGPE dex being 153 with Kanto megas and regional forms was good.
>uses repel
Distribution solved.
wow now the game turns into a shitty walking simulator with no gameplay amazing
hi yawngay
that still gets tedious. they should have just made encounters only happen on a new special water tile. there's a reason routes don't have encounters on every single tile. it's fine in dungeons because those are supposed to be somewhat of an endurance test, but it doesn't make sense in big open routes that are meant to be explored leisurely
I agree with this, but I'd still use repels after my first playthrough
I didn't even know what distribution meant the first time I played Ruby so I didn't even know it was something to complain about
They are pretty, though to appreciate their beauty better you need repels, otherwise:
>Swim 5 tiles
>DUNDUNDUNDUNDUNDUNDUNDUN.mp3
>Yet another tentacool/wingull/wailmer
Dive was cool as frick aswell, hoenn is the best region and it's a shame how dive was butchered.
>play non-shit game that has overworld encounters
Distribution solved.
yes we loved encountering tentacools every 5 seconds
Does /vp/ seriously think it's "realistic" for there to be no species diversity in the fricking ocean? I've never been so disappointed in this board. Touch water.
I named my Wailord Wailigigas and my Relicanth Regicanth.
Hoenn had some interesting water areas like the Abandoned Ship, Shoal Cave, and the water current routes. If you hated it, most of it was optional anyway.
They should have used the Dive tiles, or another darker variant, to act as Grass for encounters.
I agree that it was fun to explore the water routes, but that was only with dozens of Max Repels.
I don't know if it's exactly unpopular, but I think Regi's are the coolest pokemon ever. I really hope they get fleshed out in the way they deserve
When it was just the first 4, I agree. With the two newer ones though...
When it was just the first 3, I agree. With the three newer ones though...
When it was just the first 3, I disagree. With the three newer ones though...