Vancian magic systems in RPGs. Discuss.
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Vancian magic systems in RPGs. Discuss.
Vancian magic systems in RPGs. Discuss.
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
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>enter first room of a dungeon
>encounter two (2) goblins
>unload every single spell slot
>camp for 65535 hours
>enter second room of a dungeon
I played iwd solo and shamelessly spend nearly a hundred years on the campaign. High level I rested around six weeks per rest.
I once tried to introduce my casual friend to might and magic series, he spent 2-3 in-game years per dungeon and gave up once his characters started getting old age stat penalties.
Why are you making so many shitty threads? Can you stop? Serious question.
Serious question. I've never played tabletop. Why is such a system not a problem in TT but is in a CRPG?
obviously because table top and crpgs are nothing alike.
As explained by inventor of modern tabletop RPGs Gary Gygax (quote presented in original allcaps)
>"YOU CAN NOT HAVE A MEANINGFUL CAMPAIGN IF STRICT TIME RECORDS ARE NOT KEPT."
meaning that tabletop campaign always needs to be on a timer. This among other things keep vancian magic system balanced, because refreshing spell slots eats considerable chunk of that timer, so players usually need to ration their spell slots troughout the whole dungeon.
CRPGs usually neglect to have that timer restriction, which means that players can refresh spell slots whenever and as many times as they want, which makes the vancian magic system completely busted.
This.
In fact Kingmaker was really refreshing for having some actual timers and camping logistics to make vancian meaningful.
BG3 appears to have it on the surface, and the camping sites are really well done and fun with their own events etc. but it's also trivialized once you find enough rations, which makes the game a tedious box hunt on the side.
Camping gives all those clerics a reason to have create food and water and things like this, it really helps the pacing and gives a lot of room for character development. If you half ass vancian, if you half ass camping, I'd rather you just not bother and just go back to JRPG style MP points though.
It also makes wizards turn into magical archers essentially if you are on MP systems since you can't make them truly powerful with per encounter/rest restrictions like that. MP systems then have to get complexity and resource management depth from other means.
It's really hard to balance in CRPG, but I'm glad to see attempts being (finally) made at least.
I care more about camping and balancing time and resources somehow to give CRPGs depth more than vancian itself. I think slots themselves and meta magics are very cumbersome design vs. MP.
>CRPGs usually neglect to have that timer restriction
It's more than that, though. Merely adding a timer mechanic doesn't mean the content is going to be well-designed and well-tuned, which is the actual difficult part especially when translating from tabletop to videogame.
Can a player predict whether a dungeon will be a sprint or a marathon? Do they have reasonable clues as to how to monitor and pace resource consumption? What encounter rate is actually fun? It's one thing you say you want more downtime between combat encounters but in a videogame how do you fill that time with engaging gameplay?
My thought is that CRPGs actually need to move away from real-time walking simulation and cutscenes and take a higher-level approach to exploration and non-combat activity, where time compression is a routine part of gameplay not just something that maybe happens between loading screens and when camping.
>In fact Kingmaker was really refreshing for having some actual timers and camping logistics to make vancian meaningful.
Not even on unfair does time in kingmaker matter. What are you talking about? Even if you rest after every single fight you will clear the entire acts content with months to spare then play the card clicking base management mini game.
I'm talking about punching you in the throat some because you're only capable of talking about absolutes for your tired internet game of Pissing Match Pseudo Perfectionism and it's an absolutely obnoxious personality trait you exhibit.
>I'm talking about punching you in the throat some because you're only capable of talking about absolutes for your tired internet game of Pissing Match Pseudo Perfectionism and it's an absolutely obnoxious personality trait you exhibit.
Yup, sounds like /vrpg/ alright
KEK well said
Don't respond to yourself moron
>punching you in the throat
>some
THIS anon doesn't talk in absolutes. I admire that kind of consistency.
>It also makes wizards turn into magical archers essentially if you are on MP systems since you can't make them truly powerful with per encounter/rest restrictions like that.
Bullshit you can't. Frick off with this idiotic idea.
You can't and have any semblance of balance.
Archers are already beating melee in most of these kind of games without the concept of tanking in play. If your mage is an infinite ammo siege weapon with zero drawbacks there isn't much reason to play fighters anymore. Therefore they tend to become colorful archers once the drawbacks are removed. There is no 'idea' here and I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to sell one to your unreasonably intellect poor ass but instead we speak of realities of game design.
In tabletop the DM can come up with lots of reasons wizards aren't always all powerful, but that is the point of them after all and it can easily get out of hand in a CRPG, or you have restrictions.
Usually when I want an easy time of it I just load up on ranged and bring all the guns to the fantasy sword fights in most RPGs. Perhaps a pet is enough to just blockade the enemy but it's not really that thrilling a function without a lot of more dynamic melee mechanics crafted. It's not that fun to essentially play a boulder in the landscape that can be rolled into a door frame occasionally unless they are loaded up with melee powers and anti-other class things.
I don't bring the example up a lot but if anons want to see a real "wizard" level of power they can load up magic carpet 2 where you can literally sunder the landscape with earthquakes creating tunnels in caverns even, and throw hydras and skeleton armies to smash enemy fortresses. You can play an air raider in EDF 5 to see a techno version of a wizard and note that it is balanced against the absolute hordes pouring on top of you in that game by being very slow and essentially reliant on others to protect him (until he starts getting armored mechs to kite in). But he gets to call in satellite strikes on kaijus and massive bombing runs etc. I wish more CRPG would take it in this direction.
Now loosen up those panties and lower your tone or receive some throat punching as well.
>Low IQ DnDer is pretending that CRPGs and TRPGS are balanced
Black person me this cuckman, would nerfing a class for the sake of "balance" make the game for fun?
You can't construct a sentence so string together buzzwords.
Then you immediately build a strawman since I never said anything about nerfs.
It's like talking to a block of your mother's inbred vegana cheese that dripped out since she did not wash enough before letting the line at the methadone clinic run a train on her before conceiving you. Which would explain your many deficiencies via the genes of that homeless community expressing themselves via your low brow conversational grunts.
Perhaps you should work on yourself a bit before attempting to speak with your betters.
The problem with CRPG, and it is evident in fans like you, is lack of imagination. I just got finished explicitly giving you two examples of games that have wizards as not nerfed as possible, and you attempt to come back on me with this stupid shit. Perhaps the genre lacks ambition because they're selling to dead fish people like yourself, that would have kept D&D 2nd edition and looking up tables for the rest of your life whilst square dancing down corridors, pretending you're having fun just to satisfy the autism that takes the place of your brain and emotions.
Sure, set the game to the wizard's power level. Then give the fighter a keep and armies. Give a ranger the ability to call the entire jungle down on someone a la Tarzan. You seem to be a Stockholm resident that can only think in terms of nerf because your brain was nerfed? Soul nerfed? Who nerfed you man?
I'm no sawyer tool, it isn't about balance, but it is about giving someone a reason to want play Guts in a world of Gandalfs.
NTA but your posts are very entertaining
(And I would love to give fighters a keep and armies, and rangers mass animal empathy. A scaled up 'how broken can we make these classes while staying true to their theme and role' game would be a fun exercise)
>Black personman spends three paragraphs to show everyone how edumacated he is without saying anything
>You have to make the wizard annoying to play otherwise nobody will ever choose to play a fighter
Truly a midwit post
He's right, you're just moronic and can't read.
I would propose you a suicide but burial of such a sorry excuse of a person like you would be waste of resources.
No he isn't you brain dead subhuman. People will play fighter, cause they think it looks cool and they won't have any problems because RPGs are brain dead. Fart huffing pavement apes like you are the reason every CRPG for the past 2 decades prioritize atrocious combat. Because troglodites spend untold hours on places like Codex or plebbit quoting homosexuals who've never made a good game in the last millenia.
>it LOOKZ COOL MOOOOOOOOO
>UR A Black personCATTLE MOOOOO
>UR THE REASON NOTHING EVER IMPROVES MoooOO *BRAaaaP*
Really?
It's troglodyte btw. You should know after having heard it your whole life in reference to yourself.
My fricking god, there is stupid on Ganker, then there is you.
Close your fricking mouth, it stinks in here.
Nice spergging homosexual. Way to show you have 0 reading comprehension or understanding of the subject.
It's well know that about 15-30% of people who buy a game don't even launch it. And from that 60% of people don't even finish the game. A small amount of the 30% of the 30% that finish a game bother to play it again. Pretending that balance, class dynamics or dogshit magic systems have a bearing on one's choice of class is so fricking stupid it's impressive. You would have to have 0 understanding of your fellow humans but at the same time want to spend effort in thinking of way to placate them. Instead of that maybe focus on making the game fun rather than worrying that a class might be soo fun nobody will have fun playing the other classes.
>Moo moo mOo moo Mooo moooooooo
Yeah stfu with statistics pulled from your ass (ones irrelevant to the discussion of , repeating a bunch of nMOOmbers you made up just now doesn't impress anyone, dipshit.
>All you need in a game is visuals! Iamverysmart
>Just make it fOooOn why even bother discussing mechanics that cause FUN?!
Seriously, you can frick off anytime. You're literally quoting statistics to support that people are moronic so you should just be moronic along with them and never improve. That's the liquid methane distillate of the farts coming out of your mouth. Just head on back to Ganker where you can pretend to be the toughest troony on the block again. You're far out of your league with this simpering bullshit.
It's quite impressive how the dumber someone is the more words they type to compensate.
>All you need in a game is visuals! Iamverysmart
Who are you quoting?
>People will play fighter, cause they think it looks cool and they won't have any problems because RPGs are brain dead.
You or one of your inbred compatriots from the League of Never Improve At All Gentlemen. Who fricking cares since no one can tell you apart anyway.
Looks cool. As in it looks to be fun/enjoyable/appealing to them you utter goober. Not that the icon for the fighter class is more well drawn.
Jesus you really are fricking dumb.
>It's toooo many wooooords
Cattle. Common cattle that you can't tell apart.
Bring me your moronic, your Santa Gertrudis, your Holsteins. I will make hamburger of them all and feed them to each other.
>I was hung by my own words so now I'll backpedal and conflate visuals with mechanics, no one will figure it out.
What a jackass you are. How's the retail job treating you? Any plans to stop being a jackass soon?
>He's still going
>He's also reddit spacing
>He's repeating the same insult twice in a row
I have buck broken the ape. Black person me this. Since the discussion is gonna go nowhere as I lack the Special Ed qualification to tard wrangle you into basic reading comprehension. I instead want to know how are adding cuck limits to magic fun. Especially since to get rid of those limits you have to stop playing the game and do a chore. The camp system is just enforced menu use, what kind of mentally impaired creature would consider that fun?
>he thinks Reddit invented the paragraph
Very “newbie trying to sound like an oldgay”
Why do 4 sentences need to be split in paragraphs, and those paragraphs have to be split from one sentence quotes?
It doesn't you're just trying to make your post seem bigger.
It visually separates distinct ideas or sections, and makes it flow easier to the human eye. "Reddit spacing" is a real thing, but that anon wasn't using "reddit spacing". It just gets thrown around to mean REEEEEE PARAGRAPHS REEEEEEEEE
Usually you don't need spaces after greentext, the color change is sufficient to delineate the text.
Yes you can.
Yeah he also said that a week of in game time passes in between sessions yet normals still quote the deceitful conman, must be nice to have morons that barely know you cherry-pick everything you say to make you sound smart.
>Serious question. I've never played tabletop. Why is such a system not a problem in TT but is in a CRPG?
You're (usually?) not fighting as many encounters per day in TTRPGs and you also tend to have more out-of-combat problems to solve, so mages don't feel quite as useless at low levels.
Also as
said, a lot of campaigns utilize time as a resource so you can't just trivialize the system by constantly resting like you can in most CRPGs.
>constantly resting like you can in most CRPGs.
This mechanic is being moved away from, I feel
>This mechanic is being moved away from, I feel
Constant resting is being moved away from, or vancian systems are being moved away from?
The rest spam is a bit absurd but upsetting the balance by removing it without adjusting the amount of encounters is a risk.
>Constant resting is being moved away from
This, normalgay games are making resting more tedious or attaching a billion mechanics to it and everything else is doing away with it entirely.
I pushed my resources to the absolute limit in bg3 just because i didn't want to spend next half a hour in camp cutscenes.
My solution to this problem was just not even playing BG3 in the first place.
>I pushed my resources to the absolute limit in bg3 just because i didn't want to spend next half a hour in camp cutscenes.
Gamers will go to great lengths to avoid Gale's 'magic shows'.
Unironically genius game design, makes mechanicsgays really work to stretch their resources while also appealing to romance/storygays
It's also a problem in TTRPGs and in fact newer editions of D&D and adjacent systems don't even have true vancian magic anymore.
Personally I dislike it and I find that it's only good as a storytelling device in novels or story heavy "games".
You can also compress time more sanely. Instead of every dungeon needing to be a single one-way trek, you can push in as far as you think your resources can handle for the day, before retreating back, whether that's back to the town, outside, or to a previously discovered safe place inside the dungeon. So long as the GM doesn't have reason why not, you can just say "we go back to our camp and rest" and that's it. And then the next day, the GM is free to either let you return to where you left off with no consequence or throw you an encounter or otherwise change the dungeon conditions depending on how much time as passed.
In a videogame you're constrained to the simulation mechanics. Constant back and forth like this gets tedious and you can't subjectively determine whether players are abusing it or not.
>You can also compress time more sanely.
>So long as the GM doesn't have reason why not, you can just say "we go back to our camp and rest" and that's it. And then the next day, the GM is free to either let you return to where you left off with no consequence
This is only a thing in modern tabletops. In TSR era D&D (od&d, becmi, ad&d) you're expected to play out the entire trip in and out, there's no "teleporting" back to camp and back to your furthest point.
It's a consequence of the whole "time records matter" thing, weight encumbrance, torches, resources, etc. play into how long it's going to take back, you have to find your way back using your own hand drawn player map, and will probably face a few more random encounters along the way.
You can't blow your load spells wise, decide you're done for the day, and end the session to go back to camp, the decision to turn back is only the halfway point as far as resources are concerned (and maybe even less than that if you've packed your bags down with gold and treasures and are moving at a much slower rate now)
>It's a consequence of the whole "time records matter" thing, weight encumbrance, torches, resources, etc. play into how long it's going to take back, you have to find your way back using your own hand drawn player map, and will probably face a few more random encounters along the way.
No, that has to do with the attention to detail overall. Time itself is just one of the details.
This is because AD&D and 2e are dungeoncrawling systems with a minimal world built on top.
Later D&D systems pretend to be a fantasy sandbox but are chained to the Gygaxian sacred cows so you have incongruent elements of the design that used to make more sense in isolation but whose purposes have become vestigial.
Interesting, but disproportionately affected by knowledge of what lies ahead.
Because in D&D most GMs are far too lenient with rests.
Because rather than being strictly pre-fabricated content tabletop campaigns can be modified on the fly. This does away with MANY problems vidya RPGs have. Really, the biggest hurdle to tabletop RPGs is the fact you need to manually do all the number crunching and boring shit that could be automated.
DM can say no and you have other players with other priorities.
>Why is such a system not a problem in TT
It is. D&Dogshit is trash.
In TT the DM may punish the players for abusing resting in cRPG's it's something that can be done technically, but it's a little bit too stressing for the players in a way. In the first Fallout you have a very, very, very gentle timer to get stuff done but it's a timer that influences a single main quest and that's it, everything else is static. Of all recent games BG3 did a little bit of rest punishing(in-between companion relations being built through campfire interactions which went about as well as you can imagine), but it's on the level of one quest being failed here and there(often you can still do it anyway because talking to the dead or some notes), while PF:Kingmaker does have some timers for kingdom management(as well as initially to get the barony) and it wasn't exactly liked either, not sure about others. There's a reason for that - if you do it consequently you'll eventually end up with either greater overhead of having to work out a way to get the player back on track or have him reload save from 20 hours ago. You can get why you're trying to avoid this.
On the opposite side of the spectrum, in TT you can adjust the difficulty of the encounters on the fly as a DM, not so much in cRPG's. So you have an issue of let's say a dungeon having to be designed with either the assumption that the party will need to rest after one or two challenging encounters or have lots of trash that you're meant to mow down easily or have 1-2 challenging encounters and that's it, and these have to be made in assumption of dealing with a certain kind of player, so for instance variant 1 will turn into variant 2 for some, variant 3 will be disappointing for others etc.
In some Blobbers monsters can attack you during rest and force player to fight in state of only partially being rested. I guess you could also make it more interesting by adding more similar random effects that can inconvenience player like thieves stealing their shit or some magical space-time twist teleporting them to random location in sleep. You can even have system increasing chance and/or severity of random crap like that - resting once or twice every hour of gameplay or so will be safe with only occasional minor issue (mouse ate 1 of your food provisions, oh my!) but player abusing rest option to the max will quickly anger the Gods with their laziness and get fried with holy lightening in sleep.
> you'll eventually end up with either greater overhead of having to work out a way to get the player back on track or have him reload save from 20 hours ago
I wonder if this could be avoided by simply making being slow humiliating. Like, ok, you can continue because... maybe some 3rd party came in to save your ass, but your party will remind you of your failures unless you start getting shit done or you gotta suck the fae lord's wiener as repayment or it's game over or something like that
ADHD + Marvel
It can suck at lower levels but it gives a great feeling of progression as wizards gain more spells and more slots. It makes level ups exciting.
It's also cool making tactical decisions about which spells to prepare in advance (or which spells to take, with sorcerers). It makes you think hard about whether or not to multiclass as well.
And while utlity spells aren't exclusive to vancian magic, vancian systems tend to give them a greater prominence, which is cool. Mages that only cast damage spells and a couple of buffs are kinda boring.
I seem to be in the minority, but I actually like it, gives you a reason to rest and manage your resources. There's nothing I hate more than mindless magic spam that modern "rpgs" do
I think its nice, and very fitting for video games. Wizardry, Elminage and other good Dungeon crawlers make good use of It and I think its great.
The anon in the first reply talked about how in dungeon camping makes this mechanics redundant, and I agree, so get rid of camping and its great again.
I always thought Vance's stories would have really boring, gamey magic because of Vancian magic in RPGs, but no, it's actually super cool and creative and fun. Dying Earth is a great setting, actual Vancian wizards are fantastic.
Instead of playing games, read the stories they ripped off
You can leave at any time you know
I don't love the emphasis on pre-combat preparation of each individual spell charge, but I definitely like spells having different resource pools instead of just one giant pile of mana.
>don't usually know what's coming next so just keep the always good spell memorized
>too lazy to change my setup everytime anyway
inferior to mana pool systems. /thread
>inferior to mana pool systems. /thread
No, not /thread. Explain why.
What RPG did you play today? Did you play any this week? Probably not, right?
>Vancian magic systems
who cares it makes no sense
if you have a crippled mind you would probably not try to become a battlemage without first working with your body and try to cast spells through the application of body
Charge up and cool down are better for spells. It's more tactical, since hand-waving mages become prime targets for interruption, and it's also more believable since magic would take time and effort to channel and the recover.
For a turn-based game, you want 1 turn spent casting, 1 turn firing, then 1 turn on recovery.
>For a turn-based game, you want 1 turn spent casting, 1 turn firing, then 1 turn on recovery.
That just ends up getting tedious though. Essentially triples the amount of rounds you need to do something. If you take 3 rounds, then the enemy also takes 3 rounds to do shit and 2/3 of of your actions are just sitting there doing nothing. I'd rather cast spells until I run out of MP, then restore it just for the sake of not wasting time.
I get you, if you field ONLY mages. But you should have a varied party so you'll still have plenty to do during the spellcaster's downtime.
You could even run into this issue running a normal party. Imagine FFX with Tidus, Lulu and Yuna. Tidus tries to haste the party, Lulu tries to cast Fire and Yuna casts cure. Now you spend 1 turn with your whole party just channeling, then 1 turn casting, then 1 turn recovering where you can't do anything. Add in during those rounds the enemy all tried to cast fire on you so that's 2/3 of the round where both you and the enemies are doing nothing, just to get the same outcome of casting taking 1 turn.
what the frick am i looking at?
Dogshit system. Always mod/cheat/hack games that have it to remove it.
I actually like vancian Magic in FF1 and was a better system than the FF1GBA's MP.
It always depends on the game tbh
I also want to state that it's been so long since anyone posted anything relevant, I doubt anyone can tell the two of you apart anymore. You're both losing.
i don't like how restrictive Vancian is so when i was designing my game i added a regenerating "breath" meter (temporary name). characters use breath to do almost everything from moving to swinging weapons. spells use up a large amount of breath so depending on the spell and your spellcasting level you can find yourself struggling to run or fight very aggressively after chucking a massive damage-dealing spell at the enemy. it's basically if Skyrim's magicka and stamina meters were one meter. also similarly to real life you can lose some of your breath after getting hit so it isn't too OP. it's a dogshit system but it's the best i've managed to come up with.
>unified stamina and mana resource
>also used for movement
>also lost when damaged
Interesting: has potential to solve kiting, backpedaling, and melee slapfests all in one go.
It just switches the task from optimizing allocation of several resource into allocation of a single resource.
Wrong: you're not optimizing for resource allocation, your're optimizing for effect aka things you do with the resource(s).
>resource A is used for X and resource B is used for Y
In this case the resources are not creating a choice between X and Y, at least not directly.
>resource C is used for both X and Y
In this case the resource forces a choice between X and Y.
It's not a simpler optimization, especially if you can't easily ignore either X or Y.
Practical example: in chess you can only move one piece per turn while in HoMM you can move many units per turn, that doesn't make chess easier to optimize.
You need to look at the whole picture, player has to somehow prioritize acquisition of resources A and B thorough the game. And ultimately all available resources are used for winning enounters or advancing though the game. Your'e looking at some sort of W=f(X(A),Y(B)) where relation between A and B can have varying degrees of complexity vs W=f(X(c1),Y(c2)) where it's as simple as c1+c2<=C. It's not perfect parallel, because in most RPGs some resources can hit zero (mage usually won't literally die the moment he's out of spellpoints), while other must stay above zero (usually hitpoints) but close enough.
As for optimization of HoMM it is not exploring anywhere near the whole state-space of the game because heuristics that cut sub-optimal paths are relatively easy to define while chess optimization needs to explore much bigger percentage of game's state-space because only loss/gain of material with no recovery or unavoidable mate in X turns allow cutting the alternatives, every other situations needs to explore branching move options thoroughly.
>prioritize acquisition of resources
Barbarian has little uses for mana so he always picks more stamina and melee attacks more.
Mage has little use for stamina so he always picks more mana and magic attacks more.
More resources CAN lead to more interesting strategizing, but it's not automatic and you must be careful not to fall into the spreadsheet trap where optimization is not a matter of clever compromises but just a question of figuring out some numerically superior configuration.
tl dr: no u look at the whole picture.
Based Skyrim-inventing anon
>2007+17
>he doesn't know how Skyrim resources work
Melee fighters need health to facetank the enemy while they spam standard attacks (no resource cost) for optimal DPS, and a tiny bit of stamina for the occasional debuff application via power attack (can also use without stamina for reduced effect).
Mages need both magicka and stamina to cast spells AT ALL, plus health because there's plenty of hard to avoid damage (both through ranged and through forced melee in close quarters).
Skyrim might very well be the 101 for "how NOT to design resource management".
I don't know where you got that version of Skyrim, but stamina is completely worthless for everyone (1 stamina is enough to power attack) and magicka is only useful on non-mages (you'll likely have 100% spell cost reduction enchantment on gear if you play a mage).
>1 stamina is enough to power attack
Try reading before replying.
>100% spell cost reduction enchantment
Only possible via alchemy-enchanting loop, aka a blatant exploit.
At that point you might as well say that morrowind is shit because the potion loop lets you win the game in 10 minutes.
Bethesda games have no "exploits" reality-breaking jank is intended part of gameplay experience.
Cope
>Bethesda games have no "exploits" reality-breaking jank is intended part of gameplay experience.
This is only true in Morrowind. Exploits and reality-breaking jank in Oblivion and Skyrim are simply due to a lack of foresight and poor game design.
lmao ok Todd
It really is.
Do you think all those crazy things people did with magicka in the lore is just that?
Truly amazing mages can do absolutely bonkers shit with magic. Every player character you can occupy is supposed to become godlike, so naturally reality breaking magic is on the table.
There are rumors CHIM is essentially in game console commands
Cope fricking harder dude
>Do you think all those crazy things people did with magicka in the lore is just that?
you mean Morrowind lore?
>There are rumors CHIM is essentially in game console commands
by rumors you mean Kirkbride's dicksuckers' moronic musings ?
>Try reading before replying.
I did, and it has no reduced effect. Having 100000 stamina and 1 won't make a difference.
>Only possible via alchemy-enchanting loop
Not true, you just need to enchant an armor set. The % reduction from each piece is additive.
The reduced effect is at 0.
Yes, you can power attack without stamina, if for some reason you REALLY can't wait 0.1 seconds.
This. Level 100 enchanting lets you get 25% reduction per piece. 25% + 25% + 25% + 25% (Neck Head Ring Body) is 100% reduction. You don't need to exploit at all. Plus the fact that magic sucks dick end game on legendary. All the spells cap out and you're stuck with infinite casting of weak shit, vs blacksmithing an overpowered weapon.
So you just copied Fatigue Points from GURPS
i always wondered what it would be like if spellcasting actually physically drained your character instead of just eating up ammunition (either spells slots or MP). keep the name, it fits.
>Raistlin_killing_Cameron_in_his_dream.png
I know it's barely an rpg but doesn't that happen in dragon's dogma?
Yes, sprinting, climbing, using weapon special skills, or casting spells all use a single stamina resource.
That's Shadowrun. You roll to see how much of the drain cost of a spell you resist, which goes up based on the spell and the power you're casting it at.
I mostly filled Mass cure on 5th circle slot for my cleric(Aerie).
Frick you and your troony elf & dwarf game that spits on Tolkien's legacy. I have amazing tastes in RPGs such as GURPs, HERO, and many more.
>I have amazing tastes in RPGs such as GURPs, HERO, and many more.
lol man
>OSR
Scraping the bottom of the barrel, huh?
>I have amazing tastes in these bad rulesets that aren't even in any crpgs and I post about this on a crpg board because uh idk I'm moronic I guess
Why not just jerk off call of cthulu while you're at it
>>I have amazing tastes in these bad rulesets
Filtered, low IQ, and dyslexic.
>Why not just jerk off call of cthulu while you're at it
I don't mind BRP.
Go ahead anon, tell us what crpgs you play so we can see the list of braindead zogchow.
CRPGs don't have good systems.
You're not going to list them because you'll get laughed off of here to.
A better question is why are you defending the troony avatargay, unless you are him?
Because he's right and you're a huge gay who can't name a single game. You seem to think far too highly of yourself while having nothing to offer and are acting like a b***hy baby because you are being gatekept, as you should be.
Yeah you are him, and you should go dilate.
>I see you got real asshurt when he mentioned a game based on old skool dnd too.
>Bet you're trans.
That's funny because the OSR community is chock full of trannies, which is why they have a million discords discussing their crappy B/X clones. OSR is a series of games for idiots with no imagination just like the furries and trannies that play nothing besides 5e. I love when D&D fans browbeat against one another when it's all the same milquetoast, uninspired, sacred cow laden garbage.
Do you take HRT or did a surgeon bolt your breasts on?
I'm not a troony you stupid bastard. The posters on this board have no integrity considering they'll defend a literal avatargay troony when it's convenient though.
Also proof that you can't read:
>that aren't even in any crpgs and I post about this on a crpg board
We're talking about TTRPGs, dumbass.
>We're talking about TTRPGs, dumbass.
No we're not, this is a video game board and you are here because you got laughed off the appropriate board because of your stupid opinions. Either talk about video games or go back and continue to be laughed at.
>No we're not
Read the conversation you worthless cretin.
The current pack of table top degenerates loathes dnd because underneath the inclusive advertising it's a toxic testosterone fest full of rules layering and elitism, as it always has been. People who drop dnd are weak hipsters.
You realize Gygax was a FAT FRICK which means he has more estrogen than me, right?
I see you got real asshurt when he mentioned a game based on old skool dnd too. Bet you're trans.
Just proof that everyone who gets filtered by dnd is a fricking idiot that doesn't play anything.
>filtered
People who call the best and most meticulously developed point buy systems "badly written" while defending D&D... lmfao...
GURPS is an ass backwards mathematically clunky and paradoxical system that breaks easily after minimal progression with shit combat and magic, and the only people who praise it are weirdos who have some 20 year old custom special snowflake ruleset.
I get it, the joke is that you're describing D&D.
>troony!
>no u
>no you're the troony
>um no you're actually trans!
wow can't believe I finally found a thread with some fellow 2022 OLDgayS amirite????
I actually respect Tolkien so I know what I'm talking about when I say that D&D was and always will be subversive trash.
Not him, but how does respecting Tolkien prove you know what you're talking about with D&D. By that logic I can just say I respect A, so B with 0 facts to back it up.
I respect this post.
Thanks
Fair enough
I wasn't really thinking straight when I wrote that.
You're a n*ggerf*ggot and your sh*t's all r*tarded. Is that better you a*tistic c*ancerape tr*nny?
it fricking sucks
next question?
but there's no question in the op
Why does this thread get bumped in tandem with the bethesdaplop thread
Because you are an autistic schizo on a board with 10 posters. If one guy posts in two threads and checks back every few hours he's going to bump these two threads in tandem
I'm just curious why bethesda ploppers are constantly asshurt about actual rpgs then pretend to be innocent, like people don't notice what you're doing
What is your definition of an actual RPG?
Why are you sidestepping the topic? Why do you come in here and b***h about rpgs all day because it's not some single character open world sandbox larp simulator? That's not rpg. See
You are a female brained homosexual.
All I hear is flopping b***hbreasts.
Go larp as a real man while you dilate over sunsets and house furnishings, gay ass moronic bethesturd
Will say anything for a (you). Needy little attention prostitute.
Your idea of an rpg is interpersonal drama and casual hiking. You are a woman trapped in man's body.
>frick yeah honey today I went to the Ganker/vrpg/ board like I do and told those nerds what was up and that Gygax was a homosexual
>I'll finish those welds on that bruce springsteen sculpt in the bedroom for you tonight babydoll The Boss was so cash
Gygax was based, and he accomplished more in his life than you ever will. Cope and seethe. You should strive to emulate men better than yourself, rather than seeking to tear them down to your level.
>verification not required
This post got a seething reply, and then the next morning it was gone. Based janny cleaning up the trash.
There is no difference between MP and Vancian. Cast more low level spells. Cast fewer high level spells.
strongest classes in every crpg are still the casters
Not every. OS2's martials are much stronger than their casters.
Not everybody wants to play the same kind of game. Things like mana systems and regen work for different kinds of games.
Suppose I tell you that I want to play a game that's like I'm just a random person trying to survive in a dangerous world that is like medieval Europe but with spooky fairies and monsters, and rare but powerful magics, with high stakes. Then if you gave me Diablo I would say you failed at the task. If you gave me original D&D I could sort of see where you were going with that.