The economy is actually really good and makes sense, the only problem is the moronic centralized construction system, if they justttt made it localized to the provinces then it would make capitalist economics possible.
Not really, other nations are starting trade with you, I played as Cuba and couldn't do anything against Haiti buying all my coal and wood because the embargo system doesn't work in the leak.
I dont remember it like that but maybe i just forgot? I know trade was a pain in the ass when i played as sweden, convoys and normal ships also had to share shipyards or something moronic.
Ports "create" convoys and use the clippers/streamers/etc recources that are produced at a shipyard, the shipyard can also produce war ships for Naval Bases.
2 years ago
Anonymous
dont they both share a limit though? AE making more convoys means you can make less war ships
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, producing warships makes the shipyard produce less clippers.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That stuff reminds me of Tropico
2 years ago
Anonymous
In an interesting way, it is going the way of Tropico.
The first iteration was a rough but faithful tropical shithole simulator, that was given more and more options and arcade mechanics for fun, to end up as a modern city builder with crushing amount of pointless bloat.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>producing warships makes the shipyard produce less clippers.
if the shipyard has finite capacity it SHOULD work like this
>economy makes sense >unsold goods just disappear on the void >lacking goods just materialise out of thin air
Truly the most sensible economical simulation ever.
goods just disappear on the void
Yeah, it rots.
goods just materialise out of thin air
Where? If you don't have Motor works or import engines your railways don't work.
I don't think unsold goods disappear into the void. I think unsold good GETTING SOLD into the void, which is much much worse. The goods getting burned somewhere giving you no money (or even negative money because you have to handle the dumping) will be quite a nice mechanic but somehow Satan is interested in buying some 19th merchandises.
The shitty construction system is the core of the entire game. This is not a problem you can solve without a complete overhaul and going the path of Stellaris.
They need to make two separate economic systems. One for fully planned the other for laissez-faire. For full free market the best you would have is a summary screen. Meanwhile your capitalist (and aristocratic for agriculture) pops should each contribute to actual trade, build, etc. by voting in their own interests based on what they own. Then just aggregating that for outcomes. (E.g. coal producing province capitalists push for extraction, transport infrastructure, etc). Then of course planned would let you micromanage to hearts content with interventionist and state capitalism being in the middle slowly hobbling individual capitalist influence but opening more players choice.
Since full micro would eventually become too time consuming in multi-player - besurucrat pops could take over some slack - self optimizing but with a bias towards ideology and state policy. Leading to inefficiency but the ability to say, force import substitution industrialization to move past an extraction economy. While capitalist countries would build more efficiently given what they actually have an could easily obtain (from the perspective of a capitalist pop who knows they only control 1/100 of economic policy - they still have ambitions but more along the lines of adding local refinement capacity to mines rather than simultaneously opening refinement, steel works, and labor housing projects). Algorithm would be a b***h but doable. Meanwhile planned econ capitalist pop variant will have those grander ambitions but since not responsive to irl facts on ground would result in steel works ready and full of workers before the local refinery is open and capable of providing the necessary inputs. Etc.
I know this won't happen. But viki3 could prove paradox is still in the game and capable of making revolutionary content instead of half-assed maintaining previous gains a la ck3 where they port it over, add new gui & meme features like royal Court, but forget imperial government etc
No they need to make one economic system in which goods are transferred from the place theyre produced to the place they're consumed and then give the player a bunch of tools to interact with that flow, such as preventing it from being sent, preventing it from being received, increasing/decreasing the speed of transfer, and increasing/decreasing the rate of production/consumption. The effectiveness of these tools will depend on various factors some of which will be direct button clicks and the amount if which will be dependent on government type.
Then the military system will be built on top of this, like a parasite. Because economic activity enables state action, not the other way around
>The economy is actually really good and makes sense
no it's not, the worst thing they've done is change it so that producers can sell their commodities even if there's noone on the market to buy it
I understand why some people don't like this, but I think this is a good change. Trying to build a real agent simulation of a world economy is simply asking too much of game developers. It's a very hard problem. Even fancy hedge funds with billions of dollars can't manage it. The economy in Victoria 2 is not even barely functional - the only reason people don't notice while playing if that the UX is so bad you can't see how nonsensical it is.
Modeling the economy in the real world is an unsolved hard problem. Even understanding what the economy is doing and why it is doing it is an unsolved hard problem. No one really knows the answer to 'why is inflation so high ' today, despite thousands of PHDs working on it (I know you political bias gives you an answer but this isn't certain).
It's better for Victoria 3 to have a gamey abstracted economy with obvious predictable inputs and outputs, even if it means abandoning the real market model and supposed 'realism'. It means the in game economy can actually be legible and possible to balance, and the player can understand cause and effect and understand why the simulation is doing what it is doing and what they need to do to change it - rather than simply building 20 Liquor factories and hoping for the best.
>No one really knows the answer to 'why is inflation so high ' today
We already know why. Currency has its own demand, and the USA made a bubble economy for it to justify printing out more for nearly infinite financing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No its the Putin Price Hike dumbie
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sure, but countries that didn't print money the last couple of years also have runaway inflation. Another popular explanation is something like 'rising commodity prices due to war and underinvestment in fossil fuels'. And of course inflation is self-reenforcing. Workers start to demand higher wages when they read about inflation in the news, which itself contributes to inflation.
But this isn't my point - rather, the things that happen in the economy today and complex and have many causes and depend on the actions of billions of individual thinking agents. It's too hard to model this in a game without simulating the whole world - and even if you did model it, you'd also have to simulate a bunch of virtual people arguing on virtual Ganker about why the virtual economy was doing what it is doing - it wouldn't be legible to the player without substantial informed commentary.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Disruptions in the global supply chain and speculation
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sure, but countries that didn't print money the last couple of years also have runaway inflation.
This is just a normal price increase. It only seems like inflation because you're looking at it from the perspective of purchasing power.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>countries that didn't print money the last couple of years also have runaway inflation
No such thing. EVERY country prints the shit out of its currency. Some just did it more than others.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Most of these morons have no idea about economics.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>countries that didn't print money the last couple of years also have runaway inflation
They all use the dollar one way or the other. You're the kind of moron who wonders how Spanish gold could have possibly affected the prices in England, and you're the one trying to give a big brained take about how using the resource system of HoI4 is akshually improving the experience. Put the name on, Wiz.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I fail to see what possible connection any of this has to do with crapping oneself with excitement.
You boring frick.
>Trying to build a real agent simulation of a world economy is simply asking too much of game developers. It's a very hard problem. Even fancy hedge funds with billions of dollars can't manage it.
Yeah, because they're trying to simulate what is essentially almost all of human activity, we're asking paradox to make an economy that doesn't allow the purchase resources that don't exist, to create goods that are then sold to people who don't exist.
No one wants a perfectly realistic economy, but paradox's devs are too incompetent to program an economy where entities buy goods from each other at the scale appropriate for the game, so the game's economy has been redesigned without basic concepts like shortages.
Alternatively their programmers were restricted to crappy hardware because like the UI and all the canceled games their previous CEO started suggest vic3 was designed to be a mobile game.
>producers can sell their commodities even if there's noone on the market to buy it
Or in other words, AI too stupid to react to themarket so we change the market.
>all goods get sold regardless of the surplus amount >all inputs are fulfulled perfectly unless arbitrary 20% shortage line is reached >buildings and "peasants" system completely trivializes POPs by making the only real factors that matters to employment whether the building exists and pay is greater than subsistence farming, which it almost always will be even in a shit industry >thus the only factor increasing your rate of military enlistment is the rate at which you can build barracks, rather than how much they get paid and has no realistic limit to the number of troops which can be enisted in a given state >capitalists and aristocrats are employed directly by buildings and has linear scaling, so if you have 1 building that employs 300 capitalists then 10 will emplo 3000, which means al capitalists in givn industries are equally rich in every state in your country because of national markets >not to mention capitalists give no bonuses and exists solely to suck money from your factories (actually admitted by devs)
At least you got the centralized construction part right, but jesus christ this shit is definitely not a good economy system.
What I hate is how government-centered it is. The devs created a world where production only happen via the state ordering the construction of buildings. It's like a Stalinist fantasy given physical form.
Eh its more of you have control over capitalist decisions but I agree I really like vic2 capitalists because while they were moronic once they get it right my economy grew exponentially.
Not really, my assumption is it will be shit until numerous DLCs are released. I'll think about buying it when it goes on sale in Christmas of '24, if it hasn't been abandoned by then
>They wasted too much time hammering out that dumb 3d court.
I genuinely don't understand why. It adds absolutely nothing. Literally frick all. You get all the important stuff for free. You're essentially paying over half the games base price for a shitty 3D court you can barely interact with and is only usable if you play a King or above anyways which is the most boring part of the game. Cultures were the real selling point and you fricking get that as a freebie. I don't think they know what they're doing with Ck3.
It wouldn't matter if they put mechanics in DLCs. The fact that it's DLC and not patches means not everyone will have the mechanics, which means they can't be well-integrated with the base game because the base game needs to be able to work without them.
>the base game needs to be able to work without them >implying you can play any modern paradox game without "buying" all the DLC
boot up base EU4 and tell me that shit is playable, I dare you
>boot up base EU4 and tell me that shit is playable
It's probably more playable than current year EU4 since you don't get colonycucked and can just core what you conquer without jumping through hoops. Of course that leaves you with only 5 or so nations worth playing but that's still more than zero.
I don't think the devs are gunna fix all the core issues in the leak. Like they will fix the bugs but won't fix things like the stupid trade route micro lole.
frick no but thank you paradox for diligently working on making me touch grass
god knows I tried to stick with your shit, but fair enough, there are better ways to spend time
>naval invasions work >diplomacy works >events like american civil war fixed >Frontline splitting fixed
If they just do this then the game would be fun to play.
No, it would certainly be not. All you do in this game is micromanage factory construction and swapping production methods. The mechanics have no scalability meaning playing large countries is torture. The core gameplay loop of V3 is absolute trash.
Absolutely. This will the game that supersedes all previous gsg with a dynamic and exciting new system that focuses on GRAND STRATEGY.
GRAND STRATEGY! >no more microing a million armies >no more abusing the battle AI
Warfare will be about what really counts, the grand strategic maneuvering that got you into a war in the first place and how your nation is placed to deal with it.
Its going to be great. But yes, the mountain stack baiters are going to wet their beds. Every night. For years to come.
Take a fricking look at yourself for a moment.
Pretending to like a shit game because it might make anons on a slow board upset.
Jesus Christ, dude. Where did your life go so wrong?
Take a fricking look at yourself for a moment.
Pretending to not recognize sarcastic bait to get (You)s.
Jesus Christ, dude. Where did your life go so wrong?
>pretending to not recognize
work on your reading comprehension >Pretending to like a shit game because it might make anons on a slow board upset. >pretending >to like >a shit game >ergo bait
I'm looking forward to when it's complete in 2030. ALL devs in this genre charge full price for less than half a game, but Paradox is the worst of the worst.
Is there still no logistics in game, do resources still magically teleport to their destination, rendering things like suetz channel and transiberian railroad useless?
There are logistics but only over sea. And they have to reach your troops home, i.e. if you send a division from Canada to fight in Opium Wars, the grain from India to feed them must reach Canada. I'm not sure if the food then magically teleports to them or if it has to go then to China.
When I heard they had removed combat from Vic3 I literally wet my pants. Not from excitement but from fear. For I knew my days larping as a great genius general were over. My bladder leaks constantly now.
>guts war mechanics even though many were excited for a more immersive HOI4 like style system
>does not compensate for this detriment in the military mechanics by surplusing more political, law, and sociology style mechanics for better roleplaying and being a actual grand strategy game instead of a economic simulation
>DLC will be the most ridiculous shit imagineable, aimed towards the typical mass consumerist popculture zhe/zhey zoomers who will gladly pay $40 for a new DLC where LE ALIENS INVADE THE WORLD AND THEN NAPOLEON COMES BACK FROM THE DEAD STORYLINE!! omg guys so much effort and immersion for a 19th century themed game.
>some DLC will add some nice basic stuff they took away before launch, like suppressing riots, or ship textures, or something like that. Most likely something like gay marriage policy pack or a super focused feminist rights storyline
>will move on to some other bullshit like HOI5, their best move probably.
>guts war mechanics even though many were excited for a more immersive HOI4 like style system
They perfected war by understanding that micro si fricking shti and HOI4 had the worst implementation of all of their games, didn't know if it wanted to be micro or macro and the AI is still not up to standards.
the leak shows that the new system doesn't actually reduce micro because Paradox are moronic and incompetent. You have to micromanage because the fronts will split and it'll just leave a huge front open to the enemy or move a massive army getting attrited in a desert front
You should be very grateful for God's infinite mercy or you would have been liquidated shortly after birth like sick livestock for eugenic reasons you simpering lobotomite
One, if you play the April patch you'll notice that generals automatically get reassigned to a new front when it splits. You only have to micro in the March patch.
Two, front-splitting is an opportunity for micro and enveloping.
I've said this before, but enveloping through intentional front splits is going to be the combat meta when Victoria 3 is released. It works like a charm in the alpha, with the only problem that armies can disengage and teleport out immediately. That's obviously a bug, and once it's fixed Victoria 3 combat is going to reward micro way more than Victoria 2.
>enveloping through intentional front splits
How can you intentionally create a split front when you have absolutely 0 control over how your armies advance?
You keep splitting the front until each front represents approximately one division width. You then tell parts of those fronts to advance while others parts retreat back into the mountains and defend. In this manner you can envelope the enemy and win mighty victories. You then poo your pants with excitement.
not him but i would have liked a hoi 3 division brigade builder and oob at the very least. Why do i have to fund my entire army to take care of a group of rebels or to annex some random protectorate. Also i think a modified version of how hoi battles work would have been a lot better.
Because underfunded armies tend to mutiny? Because this isn't Starcraft 2 and frick your micro skills or meta gaming? Pick whichever reason you like that explains why le ebin Great Power Afghanistan is fricking idiotic.
I'm here for the Abraham Lincoln Experience, which is exactly what I will get. In fact, the prospect of going to war should be utterly horrifying, a skill issue on my part, and the least desirable outcome.
>b-b-but wars still happened! ;_; >all wars are made equal!
Listen here, you know-nothing dipshit. The "Concert of Europe" was established for a REASON. Every head of state for a century after Napoleon was shitscared of blundering into another total war. Most of the wars in Europe were uprisings, revolts and putting down thereof.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What went wrong?
2 years ago
Anonymous
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap
Germany peeked and was scared of a rising Russia. Also, oil in Middle East, which they needed both the Ottomans and the Balkans on their side to get. It was now, or never.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Half of that wikipage is dedicated to pointing out that the Thucydides trap theory is bullshit, including the application of it to WW1, dumbfrick
2 years ago
Anonymous
>pseudo-polsci buzzword that emerged from China
2 years ago
Anonymous
Germany got so powerful that it destabilized the whole system. France and Britian teamed up to contain Germany, and Germany was worried about massive Russia industrializing and krumping them
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Every head of state for a century after Napoleon was shitscared of blundering into another total war.
You'd be correct, if by "century" you meant 30 years. Post 1848, but before WW1 you've got: >Schleswig Wars >Italian Wars of Indepndence >Crimean war >Brothers' war >Franco-Prussian war >Gorillion war sin the Balkans
So frick off.
2 years ago
Anonymous
central and south america was constantly at war during the 1800s
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wars
Wars of Indepndence
war
' war
-Prussian war
none of which were total wars
2 years ago
Anonymous
Look at those goalposts move
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Look at those goalposts move
They certainly did! I was pretty excited about Vicky3 but I didn't expect to shit out a set of goal posts! Imagine my surprise! I'm lucky they didn't get stuck!
2 years ago
Anonymous
>They certainly did! >I was pretty excited about Vicky3 but I didn't expect to shit out a set of goal posts! >Imagine my surprise! >I'm lucky they didn't get stuck! >!
man americans should really give up trying to be sarcastic, they are incapable of being subtle or nuanced
2 years ago
Anonymous
I gave up sarcasm. It wasn't easy. Shitting that motherfricker out was difficult, painful and traumatic. Reminded me of the time I crapped out irony when I first heard about IR. b***h just wasn't going to come out without a struggle.
Victoria on the other hand was easy. I pooed out a coat-hanger. You would think that would be hard to give up, maybe even cause some injury to my rectum, but no, it slid out nice and gentle.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Shitting out a coat hanger is some really pleb tier shit. Get on my level. When I first heard about Victoria I was so excited I immediately jizzed. Which was embarrassing because I was Best Man at my friend's wedding. He wasn't too impressed to see his future wife drenched in my cum, but his surprise quickly turned to shock as my anus expanded and I unloaded an anvil right out of my ass. It tore straight through my trousers and landed on the ground, heavily damaging the wooden floor of some centuries old historic church. But worse was to come. As I bent over to pull up the shredded remains of my trousers I was immediately overcome by the exhilarating excitement of only having three buttons. I let loose with with a vile mixture of high velocity gas and fragments of fresh wet stinking shit. It was like a machine gun but more of a "flabber! flabber! flabber!" variety. Startled, I couldn't but help moving my ass around in an attempt to see what was happening. As a result I manged to spray much of the congregation including the mother in law, the priest and the bridesmaids with sticky pieces of my pristine shit. Needless to say I wasn't the most popular person there after all that!
2 years ago
Anonymous
All you guys shitting out such interesting objects. I only shitted out an ordinary turd. Maybe I just wasn't excited enough?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Franco-Prussian war >Not a total war
Thanks for outing yourself as a moronic subhuman
2 years ago
Anonymous
The Franco-Prussian war was quick and decisive. The French were too busy being taking over by poltical factions like the Communards. The Germans just sieged Paris, and let them tear themselves apart. Plus, the Germans were trying out more modern tactics, and weapons with bolt action rifles. Sure, some things got burned, but it was in way total war on a scale comparable to the Napoleonic wars. It was quick, and easy for the Germans.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, yes yes, all of that, whatever, who cares? All that matters now is stemming the flow of "the Deluge". There are reports coming in of London being under 3 inches. I dont want to drown in a sea of liquid feces, do you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I agree. All these morons blithering on about shit that doesn't matter. We must focus on the shit that does matter. Specifically the shit that is pouring down our legs.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wear gumboots. That's what I have been doing since I found about Victoria 3. I have been living in a state of constant excitement ever since. The gumboots will not stop you shitting yourself with excitement but they do catch the worse of it. Just empty them out at the end of the day and give them a good rinse, and you are set to go for the next day.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wear someone else's shoes everyday. That way you dont have to bother rinsing anything.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Being quick and decisive or destructive has little to nothing to do with a total war. It has much more to do with the stakes and the scope. The german capitulation of frane during ww2 was quick and decisive, but the entire french army was practically destroyed and so at that point there was genuinely nothing left the french could actually do. Similar situation with the franco prussian war, where both sides were fielding armies of either similar or greater size than during the napoleonic wars, the war was ended by capturing the head of state of another country, and where the stakes were the creation of the german state and the collapse of the french regime. It didn't last ong sure, but to say it wasn't a total war is moronic.
Yeah, I'm sure the Tommy that got stabbed by 10 spearchuckers at once at Isandlwana thought war was glorious
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes that's the point. He wouldn't but everyone else did. It wasn't until everyone experienced that horror in WW1 that warfare lost its noble veneer; that's the tragedy and appeal of the Victorian era
2 years ago
Anonymous
The change of attitude towards warfare started long before that, by ACW and Franco-Prussian war the conservatives in politics and military were already complaining that war is neither fun nor honorable anymore. Hell even the Crimean War was pretty fricked up. Boer wars had concentration camps. When the Eight Nation Alliance raped and pillaged through Beijing the contemporary reaction was not nearly as cut and dry as you'd imagine, with each side trying to blame the other for going too far in their accounts. All this is still within the Victorian era. The noble veneer came from Napoleonic wars, the Victorian era is where it began to be eroded.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>began to erode
...and vanished completely in the trenches, leaving behind the Lost Generation.
I'm glad you agree
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm glad you agree that the "point" of the Victorian era was the industrialization of warfare and the slow erosion of the once-noble rules and traditions it used to have.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>When the Eight Nation Alliance raped and pillaged through Beijing the contemporary reaction was not nearly as cut and dry as you'd imagine
Why are you lying?
2 years ago
Anonymous
cos he's homosexual ass redditor that has been brainwashed by marxism
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why were American, British and Japanese journalists of the era lying? Why was Mark Twain lying? Why did burgers and bongs feel the need to throw Russians/Germans/Japanese under the bus and their soldiers testified to seeing murder, rape and pillage with their own eyes (but of course those other guys did it, we totally swear)? I'm not saying the armed supression of the Boxer rebellion wasn't supported domestically in all eight countries (it overwhelmingly was), but if you think newspapers took a blasé attitude to killing and looting in 1900 you probably think crusaders went to the Holy Land because they wanted to find sandBlack folk to kill.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you probably think crusaders went to the Holy Land because they wanted to find sandBlack folk to kill
nta but some of them did, at least in the 1st crusade
then again many of them thought it was too much work and settled for killing israelites in Europe instead
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah you're right he had the mentality of a 21st century redditor and thought Black folk were heckin holesum my bad
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm sure he had the mentality of a 19th century man and thought dying horribly far from home for no reason was bad.
He was happy to sacrifice hismelf for his country, yes. Unlike 21st century numales.
What does fighting spearchuckers in Africa have to do with protecting his family back in Liverpool? I thought /misc/acks were against foreign wars for profit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He was happy to sacrifice hismelf for his country, yes. Unlike 21st century numales.
Supplying the one army you're committing to the invasion would be a nice feature. It would simulate the bureaucratic shame of having to send reinforcements when you realize the worst are better at fighting than you thought
It would also let colonization feel more expeditionary and less total war-y
not him but i would have liked a hoi 3 division brigade builder and oob at the very least. Why do i have to fund my entire army to take care of a group of rebels or to annex some random protectorate. Also i think a modified version of how hoi battles work would have been a lot better.
I hoped they'd include weapon stockpiles like rifles, artillery and so on. Or that raising armies removes the pop from the province interface having it exist exclusively as a mobile pop. I was so damn disappointed when I saw the final result and realized they made no effort whatsoever.
IMO Paradox devs are utterly out of touch with their fanbase, It's otherwise inexplicable why they'd take a formula that worked and was beloved by so many fans with Victoria 2 and destroy it.
All they had to do was expand on some features (stockpiles, markets, buildings), address some of the criticism (diplomacy, SOI, RGO limitations) and redo the game in a modern engine that runs faster and doesn't die after alt-tabbing. They could have made it like this, it would have been a sure success, but instead they shit all over Vicky 2 and pumped out a game that is nothing like it.
They take a ridiculous risk and piss of all of the old fans for no reason. They know what we wanted and they made a conscious decision to deviate from it. I have no sympathy for that kind of stupidity, they deserve all the hate.
>It's otherwise inexplicable why they'd take a formula that worked and was beloved by so many fans with Victoria 2 and destroy it.
It will make sense when you start understanding that they've switched from making games with ambitious mechanics to making games with simple, easy to code mechanics. Pretty much every change between old paradox and nu-paradox has been because of this.
I knew the game was heading in a bad direction when I saw all of these pointless ugly 3d characters. This is really just there to appeal to the lowest plebs who can't play a game without having some shitty pointless character to identify/interact with.
There was some denial, but ultimately my first instinct was right.
Paradox should make limited scenarios to test their models, like Victoria: Boer Uprising or Victoria: Triple Alliance about the 2nd Boer War or Paraguayan War. It would allow them to develop their population, production, supply, and military systems while handwaving a lot of issues away as "off-map contributions" or whatever. They could gradually scale up the game world for 3-4 years before finally releasing the computer melting Grand Campaign
I'm already disappointed with how small and campy everything feels in Victoria 3 due to the lack of focus. Pic is ridiculous.
I hoped with all that 3d tech they'd go out of their way to show the vastness of the Empires back then, but it's unfortunately the same as EU4.
WIth the way they talked about city growth being portrayed on the map i wonder if you could just create one continous city on map with enough pop growth. Megacity 1 in 1880
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is a California that's 16% of the world's GDP in 1936.
Looks like there's a cap on city spread.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I just pooed myself with excitement. Sticky.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Looks like there's a cap on city spread.
Yes, which is two. Each state can have one capital and one port city. That's it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Basically, but not quite. California also has LA, and Texas ends up having 5 town total. In the end though, this is all mapgaygery that I don't personally care about.
did that v3 alpha leak ever get fixed by modders? especially after that gitlab shit was closed down.
Yes, and the GitLab is still up. That's how I played the Langay game above: I downloaded the GitLab patch for the first time yesterday, and it played reasonably well.
2 years ago
Anonymous
terrain map looks like SHIT
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well, it is San Francisco
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ye, it's a Paradox game in alpha. It's going to look like shit until DLC #3. Welcome to 2022.
>DLC will be the most ridiculous shit imagineable, aimed towards the typical mass consumerist popculture zhe/zhey zoomers who will gladly pay $40 for a new DLC where LE ALIENS INVADE THE WORLD AND THEN NAPOLEON COMES BACK FROM THE DEAD STORYLINE!! omg guys so much effort and immersion for a 19th century themed game.
the worst part is how true this is, there's GOING to be "le communist abe lincoln" DLC like all the HoI4 "alt-history" choose-your-own-adventure packs they've stuffed that corpse full of
I recall a dev hinting that they were likely going to have a Sunset Invasion type DLC but of a more 'Lovecraftian nature'. I don't know why they'd have a DLC based on the worst and least played CK2 DLC.
>guts war mechanics even though many were excited for a more immersive HOI4 like style system
no I wanted to keep the old unit system from Vic2 but with a complete rebalance to make certain "lesser" units more viable in early to mid game and revamp the actual battle system where it's not an even more moronic version of EU3/EU4 battle system, and discourage doomstacking. This combined with smaller provinces could make for some immersive war mechanics.
Naval battle system could've stayed untouched from Vic2 since that's probably the best one that Paradox has ever come up with, still beats EU4 and HoI4 in my opinion. Just change the unit balance to not make every late game navy just spamming as many cruisers as humanly possible and a few dreadnoughts for the brownie Military Score points.
Vic2 was good at showing an abstract representation of what was happening during the WW1 battles but not at what was actually happening in them.
I would also make an argument that the general warfare system that both EU and Victoria series had works far better in Victoria since in Victorian times battles could go on for weeks or months, and doomstacking units does provide an abstraction to it.
Meanwhile battles between Renaissance and Napoleonic times lasted a couple of days at best with armies engaging and disengaging.
But if the map is to be dissected into smaller portions then this illusion of a grand battle happening in one place falls apart, then you basically have a simpler version of the HoI4 frontline system.
It's the ultimate cope/shill argument. They know that the mechanic can't be argued for on its own merits so it has to be compared to the flaws of a 12 year old game as justification. And even then it's rare for Vic3's mechanics to actually be described as superior; it just has to be justified with "this old mechanic was lackluster so it's okay if the new one is bad too."
On a side note, has anyone else noticed the captchas getting even more moronic recently? The fricking lines through the letters gives me eye cancer.
Thus spoke the LORD and he sayeth "Verily there shall be a great wetting of panties worn by the smoothbrains, for they are subhuman and bereft of intelligence"
And the people were amazed and asked the LORD "Oh Lord, why do frickwits think luring AI armies into attacking strongly defended mountain positions is so clever?"
The LORD replied "Because they are fricking stupid frickwits, devoid of all wit and wisdom, that's why. Heed my words well, fear shall grip the tiny little minds of the smoothbrains once it is revealed they are very stupid and there shalleth be great gushing of urine from their bladders. Best to wear life jackets than face drowning in the deluge"
And the people saw His words were true and just and rejoiced and bought life jackets.
I was genuinely hopeful when they made that first announcement. They said all the right things, how they're going to avoid casualizing it, there will be no mana, elaborate economy system, etc. etc.
Every single thing that's come out since then has shown it's going to be a pile of shit. I don't know why I had a single shred of good will towards Paradox anymore. Just frick it.
Pirate on launch, play for 5 hours, uninstall.
>I was genuinely hopeful when they made that first announcement. They said all the right things, how they're going to avoid casualizing it, there will be no mana, elaborate economy system, etc. etc. >Every single thing that's come out since then has shown it's going to be a pile of shit.
How dense could one be to write down things wrong with his games and then proceed to add them anyway.
All the dregs here who are such fricking "experts" on game design, know better than Paradox, and think their useless opinions are worth shit. Lmfao. Go and rub out another one, that's all you are good at.
>"experts" on game design, know better than Paradox,
Correct. Some of us here are actual indie game devs and know a thing or two about game design. Being a professional doesn't mean you aren't incompetent.
>Correct. Some of us here are actual indie game devs >I'M AN INDIE GAME DEVELOPER!
Lolololol
Just fricking hilarious.
Your mobile tic tac toe game doesn't count.
You can try out the leak since I doubt a significant amount of change is going to happen to it and just see if it runs fine. From my experience with it though it's going to eat through your gpu a bit since it has the forced terrain mapmode cancer plus all the 3d models for every single country leader, general, and pop type.
Brazil. Since naval invasions don't work you can pretty much just eat all of South America without any interference and develop like crazy off of that.
For someone who's been following Paradox and their games for so long that it makes people who consider themselves oldgays seem like newbies, this one really struck my nerve. Stellaris was probably their last good game, mainly because of its original idea, but even that went to shit post 2.0 update.
They make their games so even the worst moron can enjoy them and cover up the lackluster gameplay with the superficial fluff.
Crusader Kings 3 sold because they had a good basis from CK2 and managed to emulate that including some of the CK2 DLC features in the base game.
Victoria 3 is going to end up the same dumpster fire as Imperator: Rome since they basically build the game from the ground up (instead of borrowing the features from Vic2) and building a game from the ground up is something that Paradox is no longer capable of. All they do is churn out new DLCs with the extra features for an already established basis.
It worked with EU4, it worked with CK2, it somehow worked out with HoI4 (although the base game was atrocious). Stellaris they overdid and turned it into some horrid amalgam of a strategy game. CK3 they stole their basis from CK2 therefore it worked.
Imperator flopped because there was no basis to speak of. Every bone in my body tells me that Victoria 3 is gonna flop because it's build on the very poor foundations that Paradox themselves barely believe in (just read the fricking dev diaries, especially the ones about the war and understand how insecure they themselves feel about those features)
Paradrones love change for the sake of change. As someone who played Stellaris since back then to now, the people who complained about tiles were brainlets who never played other 4X that were much better than Stellaris and had tiles. In practice, the building slot system is much more annoying to deal with and gives you less fine control. I guess that passes for depth among people who can unironically enjoy EU4.
Stellaris 1.0 was actually a brilliantly designed game. It was simple but kept all the core aspects of a space grand strategy game, making it very approachable for both normal people and veterans of the genre.
Later updates kept adding more bloated crap and "revamped" its base systems to be objectively worse. Modern Stellaris is a heap of trash which feels like it was made by a dozen different directors with different ideas who never communicate with one another.
>Stellaris 1.0 was actually a brilliantly designed game. It was simple but kept all the core aspects of a space grand strategy game, making it very approachable for both normal people and veterans of the genre.
I remember how much fun it was. It was just lacking content middle and late game. I recently tried to get back in to Stellaris, but nothing makes sense to me anymore. Space battles that last 2-3 seconds on normal speed and that attrition system, who makes this crap
well I don't know maybe because they've turned one of the few strategy space games that actually feels like it's set in space with no arbitrary borders, where you can strike the heart of the enemy empire in one good co-ordinated blow into another slogfest for the purpose of "strategy".
The truth is the people who originally made Stellaris were already gone from the company and moved on or on different project and they shuffled a bunch of people from the EU4 team that couldn't find themselves in Stellaris so they've decided to turn it into another EU4-esque game.
Almost all the subsequent features sucked out all the originality this game once had. >Planets with limited space and you have to specifically micromanage to get the most resources from
gone >a war system in which you could turn the tide of war with one good attack
gone and replaced with some stupid attrition mechanic that to this day barely makes any sense >hiveminds that actually pose a threat
gone, they're as inept as regular empires now >lategame crisis that actually felt like a war for everything
gone, by the end of the game your empire is usually so busted you can kill them yourself, unless you set the crisis date early on
What features we got in return??? >AI that can't fricking manage the economy and you always win against them post early game since you'll almost always have more resources by then >insane mid-late game lag since Paradox in all their brilliancy didn't think to reprogram the AI when changing the pop system, so the population is always bloated
and their solution to it was to add a game feature that softlocks the population on a certain level (depending how much you make it before the game starts) making playing super tall on a single planet pointless >lategame crisis (if you manage to reach it before you get bored of the game because of the lag) is pathetically weak in the base game settings and even then it often feels like a pest control instead of a last challenge.
I hate the paradrones who keep praising Wiz.
Paradox suffers because they've stopped making games with passion they only produce games as a product now, for a mass appeal and Wiz is the post product orientated man in their company.
I still remember the days of Wiz just being the dude who did The Ryuku WC,i miss those days.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I mean between him and DDRJake it's clear that hiring fans is not a good idea anymore. Though I do give Jake some credit since he seems to be the person who understood the actual Paradox business model like nobody else did, if anything he did us all a favor by saying it like it is.
>Stellaris was probably their last good game, mainly because of its original idea
The original idea where it's just endless space but shit and all the flavour is replaced with flavour text and % modifiers?
And all the resources are named somehow more generically than in Civ or Settlers of Catan?
And you have endless popups which are "references" to popular Sci-Fi works?
Sorry "oldgay" you wouldn't know a "good game" if it slapped you in the face.
I knew this was going to be pure trash when paradrones had to beg them to actually add political parties, because it was originally planned to have none at all
Just from that you could tell it was over.
When I first heard about Vic 3 I literally pooed my pants with excitement. Yes. Really. My anus totally relaxed and a huge turd just dropped out of my ass. I had no say in the matter at all. It just happened. Luckily it was fairly solid and I was wearing baggy pants. I dont think anyone noticed. Somehow I was able to slowly waddle to the toilet without it dropping down my legs. I was going to pull it out and flush it away, just as you would expect, and then do my best to wipe the smears of shit off the inside of my pants, but then I stopped and thought "No. This turd is special. This is my Victoria 3 turd. It was born in a moment of passion, created by my love for Victoria 3."
So I didn't flush it. I carefully wrapped it up in paper and kept it in my jacket pocket for the rest of the day, being careful not to squash it against my body. When I got home I gently unwrapped it, gave it a quick spray of water ( to keep it looking fresh ) and mounted it inside a glass jar with a lid. It now sits on my desk, next to my laptop, glistening. Occasionally I take the lid off the glass jar and have a good sniff. Sometimes I take it to bed with me and cradle it in my arms as I go to sleep.
Dude, it is totally bizarre, I had the same shit happen to me. Only it wasn't a corn cob but instead it was a toy train. Now this is where it gets really weird. It wasn't just any toy train but it was the exactly the same one I had lost as a child when I was only 10 years old. I always thought some kid had stolen it, but no, it had been up my ass the entire time for all those years. I guess I can thank Vicky3 for returning it to me.
Frick, count yourself lucky. For me it was one of those highly quality Sidchrome 3/8" drive ratchets with an 18mm socket attached. Set to loosening. Can you imagine how unreal that was? Like who the frick uses a 18mm bolt on anything?
Anyway now the scars have almost healed I guess I can think myself lucky in some respects, those ratchets are expensive, and it will always remind of the excitement I felt when I heard about Victoria 3.
Phsst. That's nothing. When I heard about Victoria 3 I was so excited I shat out a train. No, not a toy train. But a complete steam locomotive. The most painful part was getting my ass scalded by the steam. That really stung.
I dont know why you guys are making such a big deal out of shitting out inanimate objects. At least they aren't kicking and struggling. When I heard about Victoria 3 I was so excited I shitted out a live donkey. Jesus Christ those things can pack a kick. Its been a week and I still cant sit down.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ikr, those plebs aren't on the same level of excitement as us live-birthers. I dumped an entire shoal of Herrings out of my arse when I found out about Vicky3.
2 years ago
Anonymous
None of these stories are that bad, I don't know what you're all complaining about. When I first heard the Vicky3 announcement, I accidentally shat out the queen of England. It really hurt to get the crown out (the spikes got caught) but I was so excited, I thought it was Queen Victoria herself coming out of my ass to celebrate the new game. Turns out it was just Elizabeth II though. No idea how she got in there, I was so disappointed. At least she let me keep the crown - its stuck pretty firmly in my anal sphincter and we couldn't get it free. it reminds me of Vicky3 whether I feel it there.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Man, I am so envious. A crown stuck in your ass as a V3 keepsake. That's just so cool. Would it be okay if I had a feel sometimes?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sure thing, anything for a fellow Victoria 3 enthusiast!
2 years ago
Anonymous
At least your crapped out something distantly related to Vicky3. I happened to shit out the complete works of Shakespeare. I mean sure, Victoria got me pretty excited and everything but how the hell is Shakespeare connected to the Victorian era at all? Its like 200 years years too early. Its no use to me either. I mean I like reading Shakespeare, especially Hamlet, I am sort of a nerd like that, but all the pages are stuck together with my feces. Very disappointing. I really dont think I will buy Vicky3 now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
At first I hated the idea of no warfare. But the prospect of getting a genuine royal crown stuck in my ass has got me all excited. I love Victoria 3 now! Even though I never played Vic 2 and have no intention of ever playing Vic3!
I guarantee menial shit like occupation flags will be used as the scapegoat distracting from its fundamental design flaws when the game inevitably flops on release. They'll eventually patch it out, but by then it'll be too late and it'll become abandonware like Imperator.
I guarantee menial shit like occupation flags will be used as the scapegoat distracting from its fundamental design flaws when the game inevitably flops on release. They'll eventually patch it out, but by then it'll be too late and it'll become abandonware like Imperator.
Occupied territory gets painted with a horrible wallpaper made of the occupier's flag.
The bigger problem is the massive amounts of steam and huge military icons that make seeing the map impossible.
Maybe play the game on a screen bigger than a Gameboy Color lmao. Half these issues are just ESLs being poor or unable to comprehend things that a toddler in a normal country would be able to
Imagine making "able to speak English natively" the sole thing you can do better than anyone else
Americans are a sick breed and I hope you all starve to death because of governmental mismanagement
The same could be said about you y*nks.
Incomprehensible gibberish? Moronic inability to understand anything?
...do you not know why "American education" is a meme?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I always thought the American education meme was about how assmad some Euros were that the average American couldn't point to their country on a map, so they coped by trying to make geography out to be some super important thing when it really just means you're autistic. Though I'm not actually sure why any of this matters. The average person, no matter where you go, is going to be moronic. And especially tourists, since the only reason they'd actually ever venture out to wherever it is they go is because literally the only thing they know about say, France, is the fact that it has Paris and the Eiffel Tower is there. And I can assure you that European tourists in America look equally moronic as American tourists in Europe, since everyone involved is usually dealing with things they're unfamiliar with. When you live in Europe, all of europe is familiar to you. You know the EU, how it works, traveling is both cheap and quick, and you interact constantly with people from these different countries. Similar story with America, traveling from state to state is quick and cheap, you know more about the states due to your interactions with people from all over the country and your familiarity with the nation's history and culture. You're much more likely to find intelligent tourists at less well-known locations, like the Monza Cathedral in Italy, but you'll also find less tourists/people there overall. It boggles my mind that we're on arguably one of the most intelligent boards on Ganker and yet we are still falling prey to the same squabbling and borderline propaganda that the lesser boards are obsessed with. Why can't we all just be friends and discuss strategy like true gentlemen? Or simply just ignore the morons and bait posters?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Why can't we all just be friends and discuss strategy like true gentlemen?
Because you're not on a strategy thread. You're on a PDX thread.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It boggles my mind that we're on arguably one of the most intelligent boards on Ganker
lol
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It boggles my mind that we're on arguably one of the most intelligent boards on Ganker
bruh
You can say this board is stupid, but it undeniably is one of the smartest boards. Are you going to tell me that /x/ or /vm/ are better? All it means is that the other boards are much dumber.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You can say this board is stupid, but it undeniably is one of the smartest boards.
Delusional. >Are you going to tell me that /x/ or /vm/ are better?
/jp/, /toy/, Ganker, Ganker, Ganker, /po/, Ganker, Ganker, Ganker...
And yes, /vm/ is better.
2 years ago
Anonymous
/jp/ is full of schizophrenic seaBlack folk, Ganker is full of cumguzzlers and I'm not even gonna dignify the listing of Ganker and Ganker with a comment since you're either trolling or moronic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>/jp/ is full of schizophrenic seaBlack folk
Step away from proto-/vt/ then. >Ganker is full of cumguzzlers
Yes, but they actually engage with the topic of the board. /vst/ shitters all play campaign or vs AI. >and I'm not even gonna dignify the listing of Ganker and Ganker with a comment since you're either trolling or moronic.
I have nothing to say to you, plebian.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Step away from proto-/vt/ then
/djt/, idol and the 7th expansion threads are even more brown and schizophrenic. Seiyuu and JAV threads are about on par. What's left then, the train thread once in a blue moon on a slow day? >Yes, but they actually engage with the topic of the board
Okay cumguzzler
2 years ago
Anonymous
>/djt/, idol and the 7th expansion threads are even more brown and schizophrenic.
Step away from proto-proto-/vt/ then. >What's left then, the train thread once in a blue moon on a slow day?
The train thread is honestly the best thread on this entire imageboard.
2 years ago
Anonymous
jp is literally just /c/ coom dumps there's nothing of substance there anymore for >half a decade, funniest thing they done recently was touhou mount and blade mod, and that isnt even their OC its just some anon fixing up a chink touhou mod
2 years ago
Anonymous
>jp is literally just /c/ coom dumps
Lurk
2 years ago
Anonymous
Moar.
Sorry sweetie, that's literally the case. INMU and Gachi threads are dead, discussion about JP internet dies out quickly, anything that's not coom dump play MMO with me so I can groom you while ERPing in chat and spamming threads with literal bots or let's read 20 year old kusoge discussed to death threads is non existent, or when they are existent, they're again, pruned off the board by schizophrenic and bot threads.
jpsies are a perfect example of the alienated, hedonistic americanoid leeching off their middle class parents specimen; talking to walls, and cooming.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>/vst/ shitters all play campaign or vs AI.
Playing a Paracuck game online is probably the only multiplayer experience worse than playing Chivalry or Mordhau.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's really not that bad. At least for the first 200 years in EU4, it's pretty fun.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>"Oh boy I can't wait to get death war'd by some moronic zoomer and go bankrupt, so fun and engaging!"
2 years ago
Anonymous
>"I get filtered by multiplayer and need to win against moronic AI"
shut up comfyhomosexual
2 years ago
Anonymous
You forgot /misc/
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It boggles my mind that we're on arguably one of the most intelligent boards on Ganker
bruh
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, I'm sure before inexpensive mass travel and EU became a thing nobody in Europe could find France on the map. This is how you double down on being a mutt. It's not like burgers know a lot about the geography of South America in exchange for not knowing about Europe, you're just uneducated swine, all there is to it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>what is proximity and relevance
It’s as if you’ve either intentionally missed the point or are missing half of what a human brain should normally have.
I admire your commitment to posting about how your bowel movements relate to Victoria 3 in every thread. Unfortunately I can't participate as I haven't been able to poo since the initial announcement. I'm hoping it'll clear on release day!
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thank you for your kind comment. I must admit the excitement of Victoria 3 has had an extraordinary effect on the efficiency discharge of my excrement. I cant imagine how that is going to increase once I can start mashing 3 buttons. I fear the excitement might be so great as to permanently stretch my anus, much like leavening a tap fully open.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> I fear the excitement might be so great as to permanently stretch my anus
I did some research into this and its a real thing. Look into a buying a butt plug, it will stop unwanted leakage.
Paradox should have broken the game up into smaller packets to be sold separately. Having all the excitement contained in one game is just going to be too much for most people. Their anuses will become hopelessly stretched.
I mean if Atlantic slave trade was truly over the squadron wouldn't have stayed around until 1870. There was still plenty of smuggling going on. Not enough for thousands of Black folks to randomly end up in Afghanistan of course.
The dumbest part here is that because of how assimilation mechanics work in Vicky 3 these minorities will stick around forever, assimilation can't happen unless the culture being assimilated is already accepted. So the 200 Nuba, 150 Khoisan, 400 Lunda, 1,000 Bantu, etc minorities will just stick around unchanged in Afghanistan for the rest of the game.
It's even more moronic when you consider that this means. these African minorities living in, say, Brazil, will never assimilate to Afro-Brazillian culture even if they've lived there for 4 generations and shouldn't be any different from all the other slaves that came before.
It makes sense in part, there are many examples of countries discriminating so heavily against a minority group that they aren't even considered truly human and thus can't possibly be integrated and assimilated (e.g. blacks in the US). The problem is that the only two tiers that exist in Vicky 3 are either this type of total exclusion from society or complete integration as an accepted culture, there's no middle ground for "discriminated against, but still capable of assimilation into the primary culture" which should be the norm for most cultures in most countries, like Poles in Germany or Koreans in Japan.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It makes sense in part
Not really. The example in the post I replied to would make sense, IE Old World Africans assimilating into the New World African group present there, be it Afro-American/Brazilian/Antillean etc. What will happen to the swathes of Irish that immigrate to the New World? Will those tags have to accept Irish in order to assimilate them? I feel like certain modifiers could prevent instant assimilation if that's what the devs are after
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's worth nothing that cultures are either accepted or not based on their cultural traits and your laws rather than having a list of accepted cultures per country like in Vicky 2. So Irish would probably be accepted in the US and Canada because they have the Anglophone or Western European trait or something.
Africans not assimilating into New World black cultures is a problem though.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's worth nothing that cultures are either accepted or not based on their cultural traits and your laws rather than having a list of accepted cultures per country like in Vicky 2. So Irish would probably be accepted in the US and Canada because they have the Anglophone or Western European trait or something.
I'd assume it's more dynamic that Vicky 2, but long story short: yes they need to have it accepted. That's annoying regardless, depending on how those acceptance laws work you can have all kinds of Euro cultures that won't assimilate-- socioeconomics be damned
What are they doing in Afghanistan in the first place?
Has to do with slavery
2 years ago
Anonymous
According to the dev diary the laws are: >Ethnostate: only Pops of primary cultures are accepted >National Supremacy: Pops whose cultures share both heritage and another trait are accepted >Racial Segregation: Pops of the same heritage are accepted >Cultural Exclusion: Pops whose cultures share any similarities are accepted >Multiculturalism: no cultures are discriminated against
So under Racial Discrimination which is the starting law for the US all Europeans would be accepted, Irish immigrants would assimilate to Yankee/Dixie.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What does Multiculti do? Assimilate every heritage ? if yes then into what culture?
2 years ago
Anonymous
It sounds like it treats every culture as accepted. I don't know what being accepted leads to in terms of game values, if that's what you're asking.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I meant, if pops of European heritage assimilate to the national culture like yankee in the usa, then what do non european pops assimilate to, if at all?
I know it doesn't really matter since every pop is accepted under the law, but I still would like to know.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If its multiculti then all pop types can probably become yanks in the US
2 years ago
Anonymous
But if yankee culture or whatever have European heritage, does that mean non Europeans in effect become European?
Again pointless from a gameplay perspective, I just think it funny.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I think so, in the dev diary they talk about minority cultures in the Ottoman Empire assimilating, which I imagine means European heritage balkanoids assimilating to the middle-eastern heritage Turkish culture. >The Ottoman Empire, home to a lot of cultural and religious minorities, has fairly lenient Citizenship Laws but zero separation of Church and State. As a result they will initially have a lot of both assimilation and conversion
Which is complete Swedish public school ahistorical nonsense but there we go
2 years ago
Anonymous
The majority of Turkish people today are literally genetic Greeks or other Balkans who assimilated into Turkish culture. You really think the 70 million Turks all descended from the small number of Seljuk nomads who first rode out of the steppe and into Anatolia?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes but that didnt happen during the Victorian era did it
2 years ago
Anonymous
You think that the 7 billion people today descended from 10,000 ice age hunter-gatherers? Clearly there must have been alien immigration and assimilation.
2 years ago
Anonymous
t. has never been to turkey
Turkish is a meme ethnicity, I've seen people who wouldn't look out of place in Western Europe and people who wouldn't look out of place in Saudi Arabia all identifying as "Turks"
2 years ago
Anonymous
There weren't more than 2 million Turks at most when they first arrived in Anatolia and the Balkans. The Byzantine Empire on the other hand had 10 million Greeks.
800 years later and the Greek population has barely changed meanwhile the Turkish one has exploded to 70 million. The reality is that most of those 70 million Turks are the descendants of the 10 million 13th century Greeks (or Bulgarians, Serbians, Romanians, etc) who were steadily Turkified over the history of the Ottoman Empire.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> The reality is that most of those 70 million Turks are the descendants of the 10 million 13th century Greeks (or Bulgarians, Serbians, Romanians, etc) who were steadily Turkified over the history of the Ottoman Empire.
How is that possible when 1920s Turkey with the modern borders had a population of 13 million.
Methinks you are talking out your arse.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>what were the population exchanges
2 years ago
Anonymous
After the population exchanges, Greece had 6.2 million people and Turkey had 13.6 million people.
Today, Greece has 10 million people and Turkey has 84 million people.
Sounds to me like Turkish women are hotter, and that you're just salty over that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Islam is a breeding multiplier
2 years ago
Anonymous
>He doesn't know of the Alien equivalent of Anprims illegally arriving on Earth to larp as based cavemen
2 years ago
Anonymous
If I remember correctly, a nation can have multiple primary cultures which are treated as equal. I know that for Germany, they have both North and South German as primaries (which means that ethnostates include both German cultures) so I assume after that multiculti would pick one of those to assimilate into. I don't now if it prioritizes "similar" cultures though when choosing what to assimilate into, so it could very well mean that some weird shenanigans might happen.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If I'm understanding it correctly they won't assimilate because assimilation can only occur between the minority group and the dominant group, and not from one sub group to another.
It makes sense but it's sloppy af
2 years ago
Anonymous
It doesn't really make sense when you have shit like Italian-Americans and pretty much all of the post-1965 immigrant sludge that you could acquire by passing the Multiculturalism law
Having slavery enabled causes sub-saharan africans to randomly teleport into your country, like how being the USA in real life causes Haitians and Nigerians to teleport to your southern border by some weird mechanism
>So the 200 Nuba, 150 Khoisan, 400 Lunda, 1,000 Bantu, etc minorities will just stick around unchanged in Afghanistan for the rest of the game.
Is there no migration mechanic like how in Vicky II cultures would seek to travel to same culture or core provinces?
Having slavery enabled causes sub-saharan africans to randomly teleport into your country, like how being the USA in real life causes Haitians and Nigerians to teleport to your southern border by some weird mechanism
>Having slavery enabled causes sub-saharan africans to randomly teleport into your country
lmao, Swedes are cucked
You declare war and choose between "agressive naval invasion", "defensive naval invasion", and "passive naval invasion". Your troops will then get stuck on the falklands and die of attrition.
I used to be but not anymore. Game seems to lack direction. Paradox claims it's going to be some super realistic society simulator and that's the expectation that people on the forums have but it's gonna be filled with arbitrary stuff that other Paradox games have. I expect it to be a flop.
Jesus Christ, as if it couldn't get any worse. We had a nice Victoria 3 thread going and now people are talking about dropping turds, corncobs and Sidchrome ratchets out of their buttholes because they were so excited.
What the hell is a Sidchrome ratchet anyway?
>Productivity drops by as much as 4 percent per degree when temperatures rise above 27° Celsius (80° Fahrenheit) in workplaces requiring manual labor. In highly automated settings, this effect is not observed.
I really hope we get a MEIOU style mod adding autistic climate and terrain settings to every state to simulate shit like this.
The leak is eh. I don't really give a shit about the war because I'm no micro god. I'll watch spud for that shit. I don't like the lack of a national stockpile and I don't like the forced terrain map. I seriously don't like that. I'd rather be able to see the different state divisions and the colored map like usual. In the end I'm pretty fricking bad at it admittedly and haven't figured out how to reliably increase literacy since I constantly have interest groups with clout against me creating laws for schools
>how to increase literacy
Literally just build universities and sppam them everywhere. Coincidentally this will also increase your research gain linearly, so if you are ever struggling to research something you just spam more universities.
So... I don't technically need to worry about education laws? I want to see if I can create some autocratic dystopian powerhouse. I don't even know if something like that is possible in vicky 2 let alone 3
>Implying paradox gives a shit about historically accurate white people.
That would take time away from making an EPIC, CHONKER DLC, of the global warming triggered Penguin eco-fascist take over, and their team up with anti-aparthide states to beat the heckerinoo out of us colonizers.
An expansionist in the 19th Century?!?!?! must be bigoted!!! also what is the point of their moronic 3d genetic system if they aren't even gonna try to recreate what people looked like?
>bigoted >19th century politician
Do they not know the meaning of the word bigoted? You'd be hard pressed to find a modern western politician who isn't bigoted in favour of democracy and against a group of people for the audacity of being in a different political party or a social class.
How can you even hope to be able to accurately model the politics in that time period with that kind of mentality? It seems like they really aren't even trying.
If I was in the game industry I would push hard to launch competitors to the paradox games. From what I'm seeing you could probably steal a good portion of their customers.
>could probably steal a good portion of their customers.
All 234 people posting in this thread, compared to the tens of thousands of normalgay customers.
It's a petty issue, but the fact that capitalists do nothing at all in game but suck money from le wholesome 100 chungus workers feels dumb. >heh but they do that IRL
Even if true they should at least have some positive effect in game, Vic2 capitalists were the best rich pop and were critical to getting fledgling industrial economies off the ground.
>capitalists were the best rich pop and were critical to getting fledgling industrial economies off the ground
State Capitalism and subsidies were critical to getting fledgling industrial economies off the ground. Backwards countries didn't have enough capitalist pops at the start of the game to even give you the efficiency boost, let alone build your economy for you. They were more of a UK/Germany/France/USA thing.
>State Capitalism and subsidies were critical to getting fledgling industrial economies off the ground. Backwards countries didn't have enough capitalist pops at the start of the game to even give you the efficiency boost, let alone build your economy for you.
You generally wanted to educated your population and build infrastructure first, because craftsmen need minimum 40% literacy and infra improves factory output on top of RGO production.
Victoria 3 really did do a great job at making pops completely worthless by adding the state-funded construction queue and buildings system. The fact that the number of capitalists in a state scale linearly with the number of buildings means that capitalists can never actually become wealthier except for when the buildings themselves make more money. Compare that to Vic2 where the number of capitalists could stay the same when factories grew, making their net income grow far faster than the factories did, thus allowing them to reinvest much more money.
For example, you could have 20 capitalists making 100K annually from factories, spending 40K on their needs and then putting the other 60K into investments. Let's say that as business grows, you could have 25 capitalists then making 200K, and spending 50K on their needs. Well now you have 150K being reinvested, which 2.5 times as much as before when the gross income only increased by 2 times. Thus, capitalists were capable of providing exponential growth to your economy.
But in Vic3, since capitalists scale linearly with the number of factories built, they can only contribute a % increase to the investment pool as much as a % increase in their net income, making growth equaly efficient through capitalists as through any other means. As such, they effectively only serve as a means to provide luxury goods demand and nothing else. Then couple that with the fact that capitalists can be employed from your peasant pops and you have wiz's dream project.
>For example, you could have 20 capitalists making 100K annually from factories, spending 40K on their needs and then putting the other 60K into investments. Let's say that as business grows, you could have 25 capitalists then making 200K, and spending 50K on their needs. Well now you have 150K being reinvested, which 2.5 times as much as before when the gross income only increased by 2 times. Thus, capitalists were capable of providing exponential growth to your economy.
Generally this was a bad idea, it's better to build the factories yourself and NF to encourage capitalists so you can collect more taxes from them (they get the same total income regardless of pop size, but spend more money if their pop size is larger).
You'd get the same amount of taxes from them regardless since it would be proportional (at least, that's how it should work out mathematically). It's as you said, they spend more money if the pop size is larger, which is my main point that when the pop size doesn't change much, they have more net income and thus are able to more efficiently reinvest their money as opposed to in Vic3, which makes them useful for, well, generating capital. What you're describing with taxing the capitalists only to use their money to expand industry and then taxing them again leads to the same result (same amount of net government income) only with extra steps involved.
Actually you're both right his version is better for early game, even when you tax them they will still have plenty to invest and build. Late game when need for building slows down and you have more pops it's better to encourage more capitalists to fuel your economy they have a lot of daily needs.
>Victoria 3 really did do a great job at making pops completely worthless by adding the state-funded construction queue and buildings system.
So it's the next Imperator in every single way.
> the map is pretty > most mechanics are sacrificed to the AI so it doesn't shit itself > actually playing the game isn't that fun
they are making the games for the observer mode, aren't they
>the map is pretty
I hate the Imperator map, the ck2 map and the vicky 3 map they all look like brightly coloured shit. Vic2 and HOI3 had the best maps by far.
>will not shut the frick up >will not stop whining >will not go away >will not stop consuming paradox games
"Tsundere" is dogshit posing as a personality.
My excitement was so great that I shitted out a complete water cooled Vickers machine gun. It appears to be genuine, and other than my shit clogging everything up it seems to be in excellent condition. I cant tell you how happy I am to defecate an item which actually belong to the time period of Victoria 3. I am going to set it up on my desk ( once its been thoroughly cleaned of course, lol ) and larp as a British machine gunner mowing down ranks of advancing Germans while mashing 3 buttons! DEFEND! ATTACK! STAND READY! They will not know what I am doing! Am I going onto the offensive, retreating, or simply just fricking around? They will be thrown into confusion! Lololol!
I really don't like how they designed most aspects of the game, it really feels like these designers thought during the LUNA phase of mental moronation, the lead designer MAN, decided to become a bleeding axe wound, not in the traditional genitals, mind you but within the pre-frontal cortex, severing all brain function and all higher brain function to design something for babies and children.
Is the game not for you? Well, maybe, but there's no harm in that. I mean, there's not a single game in the world that everyone can enjoy. That's why there's so many kind of games in the first place. If you think you won't enjoy Victoria 3 based on your experience and what the DDs showed, then that's alright. Don't buy it, don't play it. Simple as that. For instance, I don't really enjoy Crusader Kings, because I don't like to play as an individual, so I don't play it, and it doesn't make me mad. I've never asked or even wanted CK to become something else, something it's not.
Is the game not for you? Well, maybe, but there's no harm in that. I mean, there's not a single game in the world that everyone can enjoy. That's why there's so many kind of games in the first place. If you think you won't enjoy Victoria 3 based on your experience and what the DDs showed, then that's alright. Don't buy it, don't play it. Simple as that. For instance, I don't really enjoy Crusader Kings, because I don't like to play as an individual, so I don't play it, and it doesn't make me mad. I've never asked or even wanted CK to become something else, something it's not.
into common speak, so you can understand it.
"Shut the frick up you stupid driveling piece of shit. No one gives a frick about your worthless moronic opinion. Useless mouth-breathing c**t."
There! I hope this has been of help to you! Don't hesitate to ask for more assistance.
>Please note that, like Ganker, "Generals"—long-term, one-after-the-other, recurring threads about a specific game are not permitted on /vst/. Such threads belong on
Frick off with your shitty unreleased paraisraelite game general.
i hate the period because napoleon was moronic and made europe ugly few decades before game's start
but economy system of second victoria is very fun, i play it only because of it
I meant that last two digits of the post, which worked out.
The last three digits of this post determine the number of days after release until the first paid DLC comes out.
I came so close to ending the game with 30 SoL. I fricked up near the end: my railroads weren't on auto-upgrade and California went down to 80% market access.
Also Belgium AI was smart AF this run. I managed to sphere Belgium relatively early on (spheres spread through neighbors, and it's easy to border Netherlands to nab Belgium).
So Belgium took advantage of being in my sphere and went hard. Highest SoL in Europe by far.
Also Belgium AI was smart AF this run. I managed to sphere Belgium relatively early on (spheres spread through neighbors, and it's easy to border Netherlands to nab Belgium).
So Belgium took advantage of being in my sphere and went hard. Highest SoL in Europe by far.
Top countries sorted by GDP.
Texas is my puppet, and EIC and Belgium are my spherelings.
The AI actually plays with the April binaries (no Caligula patch) and the community patch applied on top. My first play-through was with Caligula, and it was awful, AI just sat around doing nothing. Playing on the April version instead is a lot better, and the community patch's fixes are super cool. Putting lots of straits everywhere to make up for the lack of naval invasions was a really solid idea.
I lost full control over both my badder and my bowels when I heard about Victoria 3. Now I walk around constantly dribbling out piss and shit. Damn you Paradox! Why did you have to make the game so exciting?
A steaming pile of crap.... Not the game! No! The game is great! Its just it made me so excited I vacated the contents of my bowels onto the ground beneath me!
>As you have probably figured out by now, Victoria 3 is by far our most complex and deep economic experience to date. Many of our mechanics and terms can be found in a real world economy
Do the devs really believe this crap?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-51-tutorial.1532719/
homie i don't think any actual commies would argue that NK is communist
it does have a state-planned economy though, just like literally every economy in vicky 3
Every time I see anything about Victoria I immediately soil myself with hot liquid shit which then dribbles down my legs onto my shoes. Not sure if its covid or whether its just my excitement at being able to mash 3 buttons at this point.
From what I've seen on youtube its just build construction centres in every state, then build iron mines in every state, then build tooling factories in every state, then build universities in every state, then build coal mines in every state, etc etc. Pretty much the entire game is in the construction menu.
Is this the deep Victorian-era economic simulation they wanted?
Or when you hire a general just instantly promote him to level 5.
Just seems like boring busywork.
You just dont understand what excitement means. Its all about building stuff and then hitting that ATTACK button! Try it sometimes. If you dont immediately get an excitement rush so powerful that your anus involuntarily opens and the contents of your rectum suddenly gushes out, then you aren't doing it right.
>Just seems like boring busywork.
Since EU4 that’s the direction nuparadox has been going in. They just don’t understand the way the old devs would make games with mechanics that interacted and played off one another, and didn’t require a million buttons.
Vicky2 as an example, you’d raise taxes on the middle class, which would have the compounding effect of making people in the middle strata poorer, which would have the effect of causing them to demote into the lower strata, thus decreasing overall taxes, while also increasing militancy, which could cause a revolt, which if it occupied provinces, would close the factories and RGO’s, which would cause the pops to be unemployed, and if you run LF destroy your industry, causing them to be poorer and have higher militancy, which leads to possibly a revolution which changes the government type to something you didn’t want, etc.
There you have multiple game layers all working together to dynamically tell a story.
>build construction centres in every state, then build iron mines in every state, then build tooling factories in every state, then build universities in every state, then build coal mines in every state
So it's just the bureaucrats > clergy > capitalist > craftsmen >clerks meta national focus flowchart, except in 10 times more steps that each have to be carried manually. Fricking lol, lmao even.
From what I've seen on youtube its just build construction centres in every state, then build iron mines in every state, then build tooling factories in every state, then build universities in every state, then build coal mines in every state, etc etc. Pretty much the entire game is in the construction menu.
Is this the deep Victorian-era economic simulation they wanted?
Or when you hire a general just instantly promote him to level 5.
Just seems like boring busywork.
it 10000% is that, watch this video to see it in action
>First time I've seen complaints of V3 having TOO MUCH micro.
it does suck in multiplayer, it's fine in singleplayer because AI is moronic. Even if you go laissez faire there is no reason to promote capitalists or clerks, though. The small amount of them you need is easily gained by making your country into a non-shithole with conditions that naturally lead to them being promoted into without wasting any NF
In my experience clerks never show up on their own and capitalists need to be promoted as the country is being lifted from a shithole.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You really only need a miniscule amount of capitalists and using a focus to get more craftsmen is more efficient than using it to get clerks, so if anything clerk promotion is just a little bonus for a country that has actual access to resources and doesn't tax their middle class to death
2 years ago
Anonymous
clerks are based for research point and output for late game production
2 years ago
Anonymous
getting them for rp is a larp, you either have to get lots of them early when their small rp boost still has an effect but literally anything else would scale your country better than doing that or get them so late that their rp don't matter anymore anyways.
Late game production is more efficiently scaled by just mass-promoting craftsmen and letting some clerks exist naturally
2 years ago
Anonymous
You can only get so many craftsmen in a state.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>+2 base RP at 4% >larp >getting clerks to maximum capacity happens in no time
The only larp here is you.
>So it's just the bureaucrats > clergy > capitalist > craftsmen >clerks meta national focus flowchart, except in 10 times more steps that each have to be carried manually. Fricking lol, lmao even.
Much like the old "build as many identical templates armies as possible" is now "switch army production method to the highest tier you've unlocked". They've manged to replicate everything shit about Vicky 2 and just redistributed all the banal boring clicking to a different set of mindless repetitive tasks.
Sorry for copypastaing from another thread but I just downloaded and played the leak and I am PISSED
The two things that are by far the most fricked for me, like kind of irreparably fricked, that ruin the game for me, are the following:
1. You are in charge of a completely command economy. You have to micro EVERYTHING. It is INSANE amounts of clicking. You have to do a TON of construction (way more than Vic2) and you do ALL of it. Also the production methods thing is ridiculous as well. You are telling every fricking production building how to do everything they do. Not only is it tremendously un-fun (it feels almost more like a Tropico or citybuilder game than a Victoria game) but it is extremely unflavorful.
2. You are in charge of a completely command trade system. The lack of a world market or automatic trade system is incredibly fricked. Unlike Vic2 you don't make steel mills, which are in high demand, and then watch as the businesses grow and trade. You make the steel mill, then have to MICRO every single TRANSACTION. It's so fricking lame. "OK I have +500 steel production. 200 goes to Britain, 100 to France, 50 to Russia, 50 to Brazil...". And then you have to constantly be changing it all the time. It's made ten times worse by the fact that they are TONS of production structures. Like, so many fricking resource types. It would be really kinda neat to have that many ... IF they just fricking sold that shit automatically to the highest bidder. THEY FRICKING DONT.
ITS AWFUL. Dude like I was saying it's like playing a USSR style command economy where you pinch every penny and tell every liquor still and wheat farm and tooling workshop how to do their job. It's really moronic. Totally misses the point. As
[...]
said there's no "sim" anymore and the joy of watching things dynamically evolve. It's fricking cookie clicker.
HOW THE FRICK CAN THERE NOT BE A WORLD ECONOMY SIM IN THE WORLD ECONOMY SIM GAME
IT IS SO MUCH FRICKING CLICKING
IT IS SO MUCH FRICKING MICRO
Why would I ruin the experience for myself when I know AI is undercooked, dipshit? You realize you're whining the leaked beta is an actual beta, right?
I've already played Imperator, I know what a micromanaged economy and manual resource trade will look like.
its not AI its the basic mechanics of the game
and im not whining about the beta im whining about the mechanics of the game that is in the beta
do you have any evidence theyre gonna add a world market or have capitalists build their own factories before release? no? ok, then my point stands, they designed a shitty game
>click through the video >see a revolution meter >"huh I wonder how this works" >revolution breaks out at a 100% >except it's actually a diplomatic play >the revolutionaries wait for 3 months before UN lets them actually revolt >the guy clicks two buttons twenty times to mobilize his troops >a green bubble from the popular strategy game Hearts of Iron IV slowly goes to a hundred >it's over
Bravo Wiz, I wonder which DLC factory you're getting exiled to after this. I hope it's not Stellaris since you've done enough damage there as it is.
>First time I've seen complaints of V3 having TOO MUCH micro.
Literally everyone who played the beta complained about that. The ones who think war is the deal breaker are complaining from their armchairs. The base gameplay is fundamentally terrible and that is what will kill it on release.
>First time I've seen complaints of V3 having TOO MUCH micro.
You're conflating the warfare complaints and the economy complaints. In warfare, there is not enough to do at all and is essentially just a waiting game as the AI rolls dice until it reaches the enemy capital. The devs promptly shuffled all micromanagement to the economy where you need to determine everything from what gets built in what order, in which location, the production methods (itself including the ownership and transportation in addition to the actual production), as well as micromanaging all trade. There are claims that there is some economy automation, and you'd be correct, but it only involves upgrading factories that already exist and have full cash reserves and doesn't even take production methods or infrastructure into account. This means that the player must not only still build a level 1 bulding for every industry, but also babysit the whole thing to make sure it isn't fricking up your construction queue and is actually buildig things you need.
Say what you want about the Vic2 economy being buggy or broken, at least you could leave it to do its own thing or even build your industry from scratch for you and it will still run just fine. Vic3 on the other hand needs constant care and attention to even run at all.
Actually, it's not a command economy, since you, the player, are the hegelian Volksgeist driving the capitalists to harmonically structure their production around the interests of the central government.
What's the literal opposite of excitement? I still anticipate it though, just to make fun of the Paradrones and shittalk them on the steam forums and reviews which they cannot censor as much as Paradox plaza.
Wait. I am an expert on this sort of thing. I offer you my credentials.
Every time I see anything about Victoria I immediately soil myself with hot liquid shit which then dribbles down my legs onto my shoes. Not sure if its covid or whether its just my excitement at being able to mash 3 buttons at this point.
I guess the opposite of excitement would be constipation through boredom. As in big blockage, hard, lumpy, painful and excruciatingly difficult to shit. The type of shit where the turd pokes its head out, takes a look at the world and goes "Nah, frick this, I am staying put, Tee Hee Hee!"
OMG! I had something like this happen to me when I found out how bad Victoria3 was going to be.
Normally I am what you might call a "freedom dumper". I get the urge to shit, I go to the toilet, and my shit just slides out perfectly, fast and easy. No fuss. No bother. Most of the time I dont even need to wipe because my shit is so clean and cling-free. The whole process takes a few seconds, no more, I kid you not. My sharemates have even taken to calling me "Speedy Gonzales" on account of how quickly I take a shit. But that all changed when I found out the command economy in Victoria 3.
The day started perfectly normal. Woke up, jerked off, showered, ate breakfast, you know, the usual. But then I wanted to take a dump. You can imagine my surprise when instead of the normal soft sausage being gently squeezed out of my anus I encountered this absolute hard motherfricker of a poo who would not budge. I swore. I pleaded. Eventually I even begged, but that damned turd was firmly stuck, part way out. I bore down with all my might, until I felt faint with the effort, and still it would not move. Such a dilemma. Should I just sit there and hope it would eventually pass out? Or should I try biting it off with an arse clench? Neither option was appealing, but I was running out of time. I had already exceeded the 20 second time allotment I normally reserve for my bowel movements. I went for the clench.
But the b***h was surprisingly resilient. It fought back. It was hard. It was strong. It resisted. I couldn't bite the turd in two. Dear God! It was horrible. I began to loathe Victoria 3 for what it had done to my poos. They had become hard brutal nuggets. It looked like I would just have to ride it out. I asked my sharemates to pass me food and water. In the meantime they would have to use the neighbor's toilet. Or just go outside on the back lawn. Its been 10 hours and I am still here. Damn you Paradox! Damn you all to Hell!
I am glad to hear you are excited for Victoria 3. Let me give you some advice. You are going to need diapers. All that micro factory management is so exciting its going to make the contents of your bowels turn to liquid.
You will simply not be able to control your anus. Your sphincter will open wide and watery shit is going to dumped out like a burst dam. It will be messy. Wear old clothes.
Check earlier threads on an archive site for a torrent download. That's the best bet but it's going to be difficult finding the community patches since most of those were wizz'd.
For V2 it's beaurocracts -> clergy -> capitalist (up to small %), with everything past that not mattering. Craftsmen passive promotion is far stronger than the NF so it barely makes a dent, and clerks as a whole come way too late and add way too little to make any impact.
That's why you alternate between craftsmen and clerks so that clerks are approx. 1/5 of the craftsmen. I go craftsmen to 10%, then Clerks to 2%, then Craftsmen to 20% and Clerks to 4%.
Also you the reply function gaygit, this ain't gsg.
I just do some craftsmen so there's a solid base (enough to support a handful of diverse factories) and then start pumping clerks. Craftsmen will rapidly promote NF or not, while clerks are strategically more important (research) and also critical for the output bonus.
The only reason to promote craftsmen after some initial buildup is if you just need industry score no matter the cost, maybe to hold on to a GP/SP spot or something.
Have you ever seen a huge amount of water dumped out of a container? Like one of those plastic swimming pools suddenly splitting wide open? Well, that's what its like when you get excited by Victoria 3. Suddenly your anus opens and all the liquid shit pours out. Unstoppable.
Ikr. Lots of players are reporting this phenomena. In some circles they talk about it as "The Great Flood", others just simply call it "The Deluge". In either case its close to biblical proportions. There have been suggestions that God is punishing the world by making a game so good that everyone will suffer the effects of uncontrollable violent diarrhea. We should be praying for forgiveness..
I have played the latest Vic3 patch for many hours now and it's bewildering how they managed to make a game that perfectly wastes your time without providing the tiniest amount of fun while doing so.
>it's bewildering how they managed to make a game that perfectly wastes your time without providing the tiniest amount of fun while doing so.
Most accurate description I’ve seen of Vicky 3 and nuparadox as a whole
Good description. I just spam whatever building gives me the most GDP, and rush reforms vic2 style. Mind you, the economy doesn't even make sense, but it's still the most "fun" you can have in this game.
For anyone interested in the issues of vic3's economy: >goods appear out of nothing and can be sold into nothing, overproduction only halves the price you'll get, which can sometimes still run you a profit. I once joined the economic sphere of france and noticed, that they were producing 5x more luxury chairs than their economy demanded, but still made money. Because of that, I could make ridiculous cash from spamming logging camps, because France essentially had an infinite demand for it >AI can import goods from you, which you import from them. Yes, for some reason this is a thing, and it makes absolutely no economic sense, until you notice the source of all evil: Trade centers. LOTS OF FRICKING TRADE CENTERS. I'm talking OPMs with level 200+ trade centers, which employ some 50% percent of their population. Trade centers generate money from thin air, and are crated by making trade deals. Because of that, some resource-starved OPMs specialize in importing and exporting the same fricking trade good in enormous values to create some cursed fricking service economy, that should have no right to exist. >war is completely broken, and the AI can't deal with it. I've seen Argentine die to Guarani, that sould say everything.
The lack of goods also means that exporting is objectively bad. All it does is increase prices which lowers the QOL of your pops. The V3 world is one in which every country wants to import as much shit as physically possibly while using protectionism to prevent exporting anything (i.e., the exact opposite of real life).
Prices work based on supply and demand. Importing increases the supply of a good, driving its price down. Exporting does the opposite, removing supply from your market thus increasing its price. This is all realistic, but the problem comes from V3 trade not costing anything aside from convoys (overland trade is free). This means that "trade" is just straight-up stealing other peoples' shit. You want to import (steal) as many goods as possible while avoiding exports like the plague. Later versions try to fix this by adding mana costs to trade routes, which doesn't address the problem of the system itself being ridiculous.
>removing supply from your market
Oh I get it. I forgot about the market area system.
It makes sense that you would want to import goods to improve your supply, but how do you pay for them? If all you do is import, all your money will get exported and you'll run out.
Or is that what the other guy was saying, you can just sell into the aether and still profit, thereby creating money from nothing (to allow imports) while keeping those produced goods "in your market" which holds the price down.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>how do you pay for them?
You don't. Like I said, imports are effectively theft. It takes supply from other countries and is only limited by convoys. It also creates very well-paying trade center jobs, which can easily employ hundreds of thousands of people.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>running out of money from importing
Not even a thing in vic3's economy. I played some time as Uruguay and just imported everything my pops needed, exported nothing, and made crazy money. My pops had crazy high living standards, because eveything was cheap and they still got money from their regular jobs. Money, therefore, ALWAYS comes out of thin air.
That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read, and I am in awe that the dev team sat around a table, agreed on it, and implemented it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read, and I am in awe that the dev team sat around a table, agreed on it, and implemented it.
You just don’t have the IQ to appreciate it chud. Get a economics degree and then maybe I’ll care about your opinion
2 years ago
Anonymous
Maybe he should have been a gameplay designer instead of QA lead.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I hate Proud Bavarian so much, The final boss of Paradox shills
>supply and demand alone don't create an accurate model of a world economy >to do this you have to factor in the cost of trade >tfw Labor Theory of Value was right all along >tfw Marx wins again
We can't stop winning bros.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Supply and demand would do fine by themselves if consumption wasn't independent of and potentially higher than supply as seen in Paradox Interactive's newest title Victoria 3, coming soon to your home PC, Sony(tm)-brand console, or Apple(tm)-brand iPad device!
Importing everything while producing nothing is how you end up like Sri Lanka. In the end importing/exporting is just buying and selling. In order to buy you first have to produce something. In V3 just buying in itself produces value, which is how Keynesians wish the economy worked.
I think we can all agree that trade is broken on a fundamental level in the leak and I would go so far as to believe they have already tackled the problem internally. The real problem of the game is that you, as the player, are 100% in charge of shaping your industry and it's repetitive as FRICK. Goods can be broadly divided into goods you want as cheap as possible (which is everything construction and military related, plus paper) to drive down your government expenses, goods that don't matter to your country (shit you can substitute such as wine, meat, fish) and goods you want to have in good supply, but not as cheap as possible. Why is that? First of all you would be wasting labor on shit that doesn't increase your army size. Army size comes from coal+iron+steel+wood+sulfur which turn into small arms, artillery and munitions. Why army size? Because the cheaper the inputs, the cheaper the outputs and the cheaper the weapons the more barracks you can afford. The optimal procreation SoL is somewhere around 12 or 13 so you just have to keep everything else around a value where your lower class hits this mark with current market prices, plus taxes. Giving them more, as in making goods cheaper, would be a complete waste of resources. Here is also a reason why trade is bad: Trade centers are unproductive. They earn people cash(too much) and don't produce critical resources. At some point your country hits an economic equilibrium where the natural critical resources can't keep up with consumption, so all you can do is to increase tech for more output or conquer more land. That's the entire game, you basically pretend to be a computer program.
Unless you are a Pdx dev. You will epically roleplay as banana republic and build more banana plantages as your people go unclothed and without heating, because that's super epic.
The problem is the construction system on which the entire game is built around. After the early game you have so much capacity that "maxing out" states is trivial and is only limited by player will. It's as if it was designed by Stalin; in order to get things done, all Stalin has to do is wave is hand saying "exploit the resources" and it happens. This is a big problem because that is not how real economic development occurs.
One example that kept happening in my games is the oil shortage. Oil is an incredibly productive good that has effectively infinite demand. Its price therefore is pushed the max, until it reaches the magical threshold at which factories no longer are productive and your entire economy collapses. Naturally you'd think to fix this by getting more oil, but that's not possible. You max out oil production in a year and that's it, the resource is fixed, you can't get more no matter how much you pay.
>"These factories profits are off the charts! Sir Oil Baron, we wish to buy more of your produce!" >"Sorry, don't have any." >"Sir Baron, please reconsider. I am ready to pay any price!" >"I told you, we're out. We fully exploited all of California's natural resource last year. Nothing more we can do :^)"
Construction is based on fiat, meaning exploiting resources is trivial, and you constantly run out. The idea of completely maxing out California's capacity for agriculture is ridiculous, but this happens constantly in this game for every state you control. It feels like shit because instead of real economics it runs on magical Stalinism.
Lost-cost oil is discovered over time, not oil in general. Today we have a tons of untapped fields which remain untapped because doing so would be not economical. This is not represented in V3, because everything is instantly tapped by will of the state.
Oil is late game baby shit, before I reach oil I am already long hard-capped by wood. Maybe I'll make a point out of not producing any furniture next game, but that's exactly what I mean. You just run out of a resource and that's it, you have to entirely stop expanding anything that depends on that resource or you are just going to collapse your economy. None of the shit in the game matters, none of the events matter, everything is subordinated to the player acquiring more resource deposits. Even if we assume there will be a proper, functional trade system, the current design hard caps trade via port capacity. Given certain borders, your economy is functionally growth limited, with border expansion your economy is growth limited by the planet's capacity.
Don't get me started on how cattle herding and farming use the same arable land slots. Shit's fricked up if you don't model irrigation.
>Given certain borders, your economy is functionally growth limited, with border expansion your economy is growth limited by the planet's capacity.
I got that feeling too when playing too, and it's terrible. Physically running out of wood is an absurd concept IRL, but it's something that happens very often in V3. It has an extremely imperialist/Malthusian view of how economics works, where resources are extremely limited and you're constantly running up against your static carrying capacity. I'm not an expert on it, but I'm guessing this stems from the developers' Marxist view of economics?
>Britain has bad forest management >Runs out of wood, tool/furniture and all other reliant industries collapse, entire society reverts back to subsistence farming standards of living
>colonialism would be used to get resources and not for imperial dickwaving with a side bonus of some resources as it was IRL
The opposite was the case IRL
>colonialism would be used to get resources and not for imperial dickwaving with a side bonus of some resources as it was IRL
The opposite was the case IRL
I can't tell what either of your positions are, since neither of you uses punctuation.
As the other anon said, everything is essentially taped by the will of the state. Since construction capacity is softcapped by state income (already a ridiculous mechanic), you can effectively reach explosive growth whenever possible and run out of resources extremely fast, simply by queuing 20 or so buildings in the queue and after a few weeks it all gets built. In fact, it gets even more ridiculous. In a Russia game I played, I not only had a crippling sulphur issue throughout the game despite having fairly large deposits, but also ran out of oil supply in about 3 years despite tapping every single oil deposit from the Caucasus to the Urals with the best production method, mainly because the state was paying for enourmous construction costs and was basically able to completely fill a state with buildings in a single week.
So wait. Are you saying you are constipated ( "rocking out" because of boredom ) or that you are constantly shitting out liquid feces ( "flash flooding" because of excitement )?
We need clarification.
Oil is late game baby shit, before I reach oil I am already long hard-capped by wood. Maybe I'll make a point out of not producing any furniture next game, but that's exactly what I mean. You just run out of a resource and that's it, you have to entirely stop expanding anything that depends on that resource or you are just going to collapse your economy. None of the shit in the game matters, none of the events matter, everything is subordinated to the player acquiring more resource deposits. Even if we assume there will be a proper, functional trade system, the current design hard caps trade via port capacity. Given certain borders, your economy is functionally growth limited, with border expansion your economy is growth limited by the planet's capacity.
Don't get me started on how cattle herding and farming use the same arable land slots. Shit's fricked up if you don't model irrigation.
Its absolutely astonishing that people here are debating the merits of 3 button warfare and repetitious economic micro. The real issue is all the excitement Victoria is causing. So many people have now heard about Victoria 3 and have literally crapped themselves with excitement. Literally. Liquid poo in their pants. Why aren't people talking about this more?
I know, its just incredible. All the b***hing about the a game that hasn't even been officially released! Yet at this moment decent citizens are walking around with turds drying out in their pants, and all because they were so excited for Victoria 3! This should be headline news, yet it isn't!
>ftw started on this site on /b/ around the time this meme started popping up and I had just gotten out of my emo stage but still was familiar with all the 2010s emo revival posthardcore shit
Man that meme takes me back. 5 years ago feels like yesterday >inb4 newbie
No shit bro congrats, here's your reddit karma
Regarding "pops", are they considered as individuals like in V2 for purposes of migration, assimilation, promotion, etc, or is it all in percentages?
As in, if some Irish people migrate to the USA does that mean there are now 2 Irish farmers in some province, or does it mean that some province in the US is now <0.01% Irish? The first implies the second, but the second does not necessarily imply the first.
I believe that they are considered individuals in terms of migration and assimilation, but for promotion or job-switching they don't seem to have much agency. An example would be that you might have 23 orthodox polish peasant living in the state region of warsaw, and they migrate to the state region of kiev where the standard of living is high. However, once they get there you can simply place down a coal mine and they will become laborers. And then you switch the production method and now they are machinists. And then you destroy the mine and build an administration building and now they are bureaucrats. So in a way, pops still exist and do (some) things, but in practice are only relevant as a stat measurement device for what % of your state is discriminated against.
A snippet from the latest AAR on their cancer discord. Victoria 3 will in fact feature a wood based world economy where everything will revolve around conquering new lands to gather more wood.
>my paper was being exported by britain
How does a foreign country "export" your domestic goods, wouldn't they "import" your domestic goods?
More importantly, I thought goods were conjured from nothing in exchange for money so even if he exported all his paper wouldn't his administration factories still be able to buy paper?
there's like a 20% threshold which triggers a shortage modifier otherwise it simply costs more money, but that also means that britain was stealing such a large number of goods that the buy orders were at least 5 times larger than the sell orders
The sole good thing about it is the coloured puppets
Everything else is cringe
The economy is actually really good and makes sense, the only problem is the moronic centralized construction system, if they justttt made it localized to the provinces then it would make capitalist economics possible.
the economy in which you control all trade manually?
Not really, other nations are starting trade with you, I played as Cuba and couldn't do anything against Haiti buying all my coal and wood because the embargo system doesn't work in the leak.
I dont remember it like that but maybe i just forgot? I know trade was a pain in the ass when i played as sweden, convoys and normal ships also had to share shipyards or something moronic.
Ports "create" convoys and use the clippers/streamers/etc recources that are produced at a shipyard, the shipyard can also produce war ships for Naval Bases.
dont they both share a limit though? AE making more convoys means you can make less war ships
Yeah, producing warships makes the shipyard produce less clippers.
That stuff reminds me of Tropico
In an interesting way, it is going the way of Tropico.
The first iteration was a rough but faithful tropical shithole simulator, that was given more and more options and arcade mechanics for fun, to end up as a modern city builder with crushing amount of pointless bloat.
>producing warships makes the shipyard produce less clippers.
if the shipyard has finite capacity it SHOULD work like this
>economy makes sense
>unsold goods just disappear on the void
>lacking goods just materialise out of thin air
Truly the most sensible economical simulation ever.
goods just disappear on the void
Yeah, it rots.
goods just materialise out of thin air
Where? If you don't have Motor works or import engines your railways don't work.
yeah steel rots
fricking braindead moron monkey Black person kys
It does though, if not maintained. Oxidizes, to be more specific.
>Yeah, it rots.
You paradrone homosexual fricking go back
>Yeah, it rots.
And the rot pays you for your rotting glass.
I don't think unsold goods disappear into the void. I think unsold good GETTING SOLD into the void, which is much much worse. The goods getting burned somewhere giving you no money (or even negative money because you have to handle the dumping) will be quite a nice mechanic but somehow Satan is interested in buying some 19th merchandises.
>If you don't have Motor works or import engines your railways don't work
did you play the leak?
Still better than the broken mess vicky2 was from a gameplay view. le eternal iron and fish shortage!
The shitty construction system is the core of the entire game. This is not a problem you can solve without a complete overhaul and going the path of Stellaris.
Fitting for it since it's being lead by Wiz, the autist responsible for overhauling stellaris in the first place
They need to make two separate economic systems. One for fully planned the other for laissez-faire. For full free market the best you would have is a summary screen. Meanwhile your capitalist (and aristocratic for agriculture) pops should each contribute to actual trade, build, etc. by voting in their own interests based on what they own. Then just aggregating that for outcomes. (E.g. coal producing province capitalists push for extraction, transport infrastructure, etc). Then of course planned would let you micromanage to hearts content with interventionist and state capitalism being in the middle slowly hobbling individual capitalist influence but opening more players choice.
Since full micro would eventually become too time consuming in multi-player - besurucrat pops could take over some slack - self optimizing but with a bias towards ideology and state policy. Leading to inefficiency but the ability to say, force import substitution industrialization to move past an extraction economy. While capitalist countries would build more efficiently given what they actually have an could easily obtain (from the perspective of a capitalist pop who knows they only control 1/100 of economic policy - they still have ambitions but more along the lines of adding local refinement capacity to mines rather than simultaneously opening refinement, steel works, and labor housing projects). Algorithm would be a b***h but doable. Meanwhile planned econ capitalist pop variant will have those grander ambitions but since not responsive to irl facts on ground would result in steel works ready and full of workers before the local refinery is open and capable of providing the necessary inputs. Etc.
I know this won't happen. But viki3 could prove paradox is still in the game and capable of making revolutionary content instead of half-assed maintaining previous gains a la ck3 where they port it over, add new gui & meme features like royal Court, but forget imperial government etc
No they need to make one economic system in which goods are transferred from the place theyre produced to the place they're consumed and then give the player a bunch of tools to interact with that flow, such as preventing it from being sent, preventing it from being received, increasing/decreasing the speed of transfer, and increasing/decreasing the rate of production/consumption. The effectiveness of these tools will depend on various factors some of which will be direct button clicks and the amount if which will be dependent on government type.
Then the military system will be built on top of this, like a parasite. Because economic activity enables state action, not the other way around
Laissez Faire doesn't work in real life, so there's no point.
Command economy doesn't work in real life, so there's no point.
>The economy is actually really good and makes sense
no it's not, the worst thing they've done is change it so that producers can sell their commodities even if there's noone on the market to buy it
They did what? I thought they kept selling stuff eveb if there are no goods to sell
I understand why some people don't like this, but I think this is a good change. Trying to build a real agent simulation of a world economy is simply asking too much of game developers. It's a very hard problem. Even fancy hedge funds with billions of dollars can't manage it. The economy in Victoria 2 is not even barely functional - the only reason people don't notice while playing if that the UX is so bad you can't see how nonsensical it is.
Modeling the economy in the real world is an unsolved hard problem. Even understanding what the economy is doing and why it is doing it is an unsolved hard problem. No one really knows the answer to 'why is inflation so high ' today, despite thousands of PHDs working on it (I know you political bias gives you an answer but this isn't certain).
It's better for Victoria 3 to have a gamey abstracted economy with obvious predictable inputs and outputs, even if it means abandoning the real market model and supposed 'realism'. It means the in game economy can actually be legible and possible to balance, and the player can understand cause and effect and understand why the simulation is doing what it is doing and what they need to do to change it - rather than simply building 20 Liquor factories and hoping for the best.
>No one really knows the answer to 'why is inflation so high ' today
We already know why. Currency has its own demand, and the USA made a bubble economy for it to justify printing out more for nearly infinite financing.
No its the Putin Price Hike dumbie
Sure, but countries that didn't print money the last couple of years also have runaway inflation. Another popular explanation is something like 'rising commodity prices due to war and underinvestment in fossil fuels'. And of course inflation is self-reenforcing. Workers start to demand higher wages when they read about inflation in the news, which itself contributes to inflation.
But this isn't my point - rather, the things that happen in the economy today and complex and have many causes and depend on the actions of billions of individual thinking agents. It's too hard to model this in a game without simulating the whole world - and even if you did model it, you'd also have to simulate a bunch of virtual people arguing on virtual Ganker about why the virtual economy was doing what it is doing - it wouldn't be legible to the player without substantial informed commentary.
Disruptions in the global supply chain and speculation
>Sure, but countries that didn't print money the last couple of years also have runaway inflation.
This is just a normal price increase. It only seems like inflation because you're looking at it from the perspective of purchasing power.
>countries that didn't print money the last couple of years also have runaway inflation
No such thing. EVERY country prints the shit out of its currency. Some just did it more than others.
Most of these morons have no idea about economics.
>countries that didn't print money the last couple of years also have runaway inflation
They all use the dollar one way or the other. You're the kind of moron who wonders how Spanish gold could have possibly affected the prices in England, and you're the one trying to give a big brained take about how using the resource system of HoI4 is akshually improving the experience. Put the name on, Wiz.
I fail to see what possible connection any of this has to do with crapping oneself with excitement.
You boring frick.
Most people would be glad with just slightly improved Vicky 2. Which shouldn't be an unreasonable demand, seeing as V2 was half finished anyway.
Yeah, Vic2 does not even have a real game economy, everything is broken and it "works" because things do not matter at all.
Forgot to add, brainlets like the dude above just do not get how flawed Vic2 was.
I bet you believe that money disappears in trade between spherelings.
>Trying to build a real agent simulation of a world economy is simply asking too much of game developers. It's a very hard problem. Even fancy hedge funds with billions of dollars can't manage it.
Yeah, because they're trying to simulate what is essentially almost all of human activity, we're asking paradox to make an economy that doesn't allow the purchase resources that don't exist, to create goods that are then sold to people who don't exist.
No one wants a perfectly realistic economy, but paradox's devs are too incompetent to program an economy where entities buy goods from each other at the scale appropriate for the game, so the game's economy has been redesigned without basic concepts like shortages.
Alternatively their programmers were restricted to crappy hardware because like the UI and all the canceled games their previous CEO started suggest vic3 was designed to be a mobile game.
>producers can sell their commodities even if there's noone on the market to buy it
Or in other words, AI too stupid to react to themarket so we change the market.
What? Why are late 20th century economics in my 19th century game?
>all goods get sold regardless of the surplus amount
>all inputs are fulfulled perfectly unless arbitrary 20% shortage line is reached
>buildings and "peasants" system completely trivializes POPs by making the only real factors that matters to employment whether the building exists and pay is greater than subsistence farming, which it almost always will be even in a shit industry
>thus the only factor increasing your rate of military enlistment is the rate at which you can build barracks, rather than how much they get paid and has no realistic limit to the number of troops which can be enisted in a given state
>capitalists and aristocrats are employed directly by buildings and has linear scaling, so if you have 1 building that employs 300 capitalists then 10 will emplo 3000, which means al capitalists in givn industries are equally rich in every state in your country because of national markets
>not to mention capitalists give no bonuses and exists solely to suck money from your factories (actually admitted by devs)
At least you got the centralized construction part right, but jesus christ this shit is definitely not a good economy system.
What I hate is how government-centered it is. The devs created a world where production only happen via the state ordering the construction of buildings. It's like a Stalinist fantasy given physical form.
It's created by Swede SJWs
Eh its more of you have control over capitalist decisions but I agree I really like vic2 capitalists because while they were moronic once they get it right my economy grew exponentially.
Shill in spirit.
Overall, yeah. Still not going to actually buy it until the preorder shills give it a try first though.
Kinda but the economy/trade mechanics don't look great at all.
It looks like a shit mobile game. No matter how good the mechanics are, I will not play it because it looks like turd.
We get it queer you want it to look like total war warhammer
The children will never appreciate the gorgeous flat map graphics
Not really, my assumption is it will be shit until numerous DLCs are released. I'll think about buying it when it goes on sale in Christmas of '24, if it hasn't been abandoned by then
Look at CK3, it's still shit after 2 years and numerous DLCs
It's over for paradox, they won't produce anything of quality
Despite it being 2 years, you can't really say CK3 has had numerous DLCs. They wasted too much time hammering out that dumb 3d court.
Paradox are marketing to coomers
>They wasted too much time hammering out that dumb 3d court.
I genuinely don't understand why. It adds absolutely nothing. Literally frick all. You get all the important stuff for free. You're essentially paying over half the games base price for a shitty 3D court you can barely interact with and is only usable if you play a King or above anyways which is the most boring part of the game. Cultures were the real selling point and you fricking get that as a freebie. I don't think they know what they're doing with Ck3.
DLCs won't save it, Paradox will just churn out mission trees, text events and model packs instead of actual mechanics.
It wouldn't matter if they put mechanics in DLCs. The fact that it's DLC and not patches means not everyone will have the mechanics, which means they can't be well-integrated with the base game because the base game needs to be able to work without them.
>the base game needs to be able to work without them
>implying you can play any modern paradox game without "buying" all the DLC
boot up base EU4 and tell me that shit is playable, I dare you
>boot up base EU4 and tell me that shit is playable
It's probably more playable than current year EU4 since you don't get colonycucked and can just core what you conquer without jumping through hoops. Of course that leaves you with only 5 or so nations worth playing but that's still more than zero.
No. It's gunna bomb like Imperator.
I don't think the devs are gunna fix all the core issues in the leak. Like they will fix the bugs but won't fix things like the stupid trade route micro lole.
They'll fix some bugs and lock the rest behind the uncivilized nations DLC
>uncivilized nations
Its “unrecognized” and “unorganized” nations chud
Don't care
no, i am disappointed
frick no but thank you paradox for diligently working on making me touch grass
god knows I tried to stick with your shit, but fair enough, there are better ways to spend time
Not really. Zero change is playable at launch, zero.
>naval invasions work
>diplomacy works
>events like american civil war fixed
>Frontline splitting fixed
If they just do this then the game would be fun to play.
No, it would certainly be not. All you do in this game is micromanage factory construction and swapping production methods. The mechanics have no scalability meaning playing large countries is torture. The core gameplay loop of V3 is absolute trash.
No one gets a Paradox game for a challenge curve. It's for map painting and revanchist fantasies
yeah i was never so excited to not get a game ever in my life
Absolutely. This will the game that supersedes all previous gsg with a dynamic and exciting new system that focuses on GRAND STRATEGY.
GRAND STRATEGY!
>no more microing a million armies
>no more abusing the battle AI
Warfare will be about what really counts, the grand strategic maneuvering that got you into a war in the first place and how your nation is placed to deal with it.
Its going to be great. But yes, the mountain stack baiters are going to wet their beds. Every night. For years to come.
Take a fricking look at yourself for a moment.
Pretending to like a shit game because it might make anons on a slow board upset.
Jesus Christ, dude. Where did your life go so wrong?
Take a fricking look at yourself for a moment.
Pretending to not recognize sarcastic bait to get (You)s.
Jesus Christ, dude. Where did your life go so wrong?
Shut the frick up you stupid dickjam
>pretending to not recognize
work on your reading comprehension
>Pretending to like a shit game because it might make anons on a slow board upset.
>pretending
>to like
>a shit game
>ergo bait
Don't know what you were expecting anon, it's been years since the ability to recognize obvious bait vanished.
Sarcasm is reddit behaviour. I am 100% earnest on here always and I will presume everyone else is too.
>MASSIVE BED WETTING INBOUND!
Literally gallons of urine! Soaking the sheets! Drenching the mattress! OMG!
>mountain baiting bedwettter chud detected
*shoots you with my Paris commune musket*
>skill is le bad!
I'm looking forward to when it's complete in 2030. ALL devs in this genre charge full price for less than half a game, but Paradox is the worst of the worst.
Is there still no logistics in game, do resources still magically teleport to their destination, rendering things like suetz channel and transiberian railroad useless?
There will be.
IT'S UNFINISHED! THEY'LL TOTALLY ADD A REAL LOGISTICS SIMULATION BETWEEN NOW AND THE END OF 2022!
Your panties must be soaked.
There are logistics but only over sea. And they have to reach your troops home, i.e. if you send a division from Canada to fight in Opium Wars, the grain from India to feed them must reach Canada. I'm not sure if the food then magically teleports to them or if it has to go then to China.
as someone who actually played and enjoyed victoria 2, no
yes, i am excited. can't wait to start monitoring steamcharts and watch how it follows CK3.
You don't even deserve a (You)
Reddit moment
Spoiler Alert. He was wearing his mother's panties.
THE SHAME!
When I heard they had removed combat from Vic3 I literally wet my pants. Not from excitement but from fear. For I knew my days larping as a great genius general were over. My bladder leaks constantly now.
nobody cares, didn't ask, didn't wanna hear about your omorashi kink
Do you want to wear my panties? They are soaking wet, but still warm.
>guts war mechanics even though many were excited for a more immersive HOI4 like style system
>does not compensate for this detriment in the military mechanics by surplusing more political, law, and sociology style mechanics for better roleplaying and being a actual grand strategy game instead of a economic simulation
>DLC will be the most ridiculous shit imagineable, aimed towards the typical mass consumerist popculture zhe/zhey zoomers who will gladly pay $40 for a new DLC where LE ALIENS INVADE THE WORLD AND THEN NAPOLEON COMES BACK FROM THE DEAD STORYLINE!! omg guys so much effort and immersion for a 19th century themed game.
>some DLC will add some nice basic stuff they took away before launch, like suppressing riots, or ship textures, or something like that. Most likely something like gay marriage policy pack or a super focused feminist rights storyline
>will move on to some other bullshit like HOI5, their best move probably.
>guts war mechanics even though many were excited for a more immersive HOI4 like style system
They perfected war by understanding that micro si fricking shti and HOI4 had the worst implementation of all of their games, didn't know if it wanted to be micro or macro and the AI is still not up to standards.
the leak shows that the new system doesn't actually reduce micro because Paradox are moronic and incompetent. You have to micromanage because the fronts will split and it'll just leave a huge front open to the enemy or move a massive army getting attrited in a desert front
why are semi-literate subhumans like you so fricking stupid?
Why don't you have any arguments but insulting people for no reason lmao
You should be very grateful for God's infinite mercy or you would have been liquidated shortly after birth like sick livestock for eugenic reasons you simpering lobotomite
Two things.
One, if you play the April patch you'll notice that generals automatically get reassigned to a new front when it splits. You only have to micro in the March patch.
Two, front-splitting is an opportunity for micro and enveloping.
I've said this before, but enveloping through intentional front splits is going to be the combat meta when Victoria 3 is released. It works like a charm in the alpha, with the only problem that armies can disengage and teleport out immediately. That's obviously a bug, and once it's fixed Victoria 3 combat is going to reward micro way more than Victoria 2.
>obviously a bug
you have such faith in paradox
>enveloping through intentional front splits
How can you intentionally create a split front when you have absolutely 0 control over how your armies advance?
You keep splitting the front until each front represents approximately one division width. You then tell parts of those fronts to advance while others parts retreat back into the mountains and defend. In this manner you can envelope the enemy and win mighty victories. You then poo your pants with excitement.
>many were excited for a more immersive HOI4 like style system
Who are these morons? If I wanted to play HoI4, I would play HoI4.
not him but i would have liked a hoi 3 division brigade builder and oob at the very least. Why do i have to fund my entire army to take care of a group of rebels or to annex some random protectorate. Also i think a modified version of how hoi battles work would have been a lot better.
But you are an idiot and so your stupid opinion is worthless.
Because underfunded armies tend to mutiny? Because this isn't Starcraft 2 and frick your micro skills or meta gaming? Pick whichever reason you like that explains why le ebin Great Power Afghanistan is fricking idiotic.
I'm here for the Abraham Lincoln Experience, which is exactly what I will get. In fact, the prospect of going to war should be utterly horrifying, a skill issue on my part, and the least desirable outcome.
Countries went to war all the time anon.
You're just being moronic.
>b-b-but wars still happened! ;_;
>all wars are made equal!
Listen here, you know-nothing dipshit. The "Concert of Europe" was established for a REASON. Every head of state for a century after Napoleon was shitscared of blundering into another total war. Most of the wars in Europe were uprisings, revolts and putting down thereof.
What went wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap
Germany peeked and was scared of a rising Russia. Also, oil in Middle East, which they needed both the Ottomans and the Balkans on their side to get. It was now, or never.
Half of that wikipage is dedicated to pointing out that the Thucydides trap theory is bullshit, including the application of it to WW1, dumbfrick
>pseudo-polsci buzzword that emerged from China
Germany got so powerful that it destabilized the whole system. France and Britian teamed up to contain Germany, and Germany was worried about massive Russia industrializing and krumping them
>Every head of state for a century after Napoleon was shitscared of blundering into another total war.
You'd be correct, if by "century" you meant 30 years. Post 1848, but before WW1 you've got:
>Schleswig Wars
>Italian Wars of Indepndence
>Crimean war
>Brothers' war
>Franco-Prussian war
>Gorillion war sin the Balkans
So frick off.
central and south america was constantly at war during the 1800s
Wars
Wars of Indepndence
war
' war
-Prussian war
none of which were total wars
Look at those goalposts move
>Look at those goalposts move
They certainly did! I was pretty excited about Vicky3 but I didn't expect to shit out a set of goal posts! Imagine my surprise! I'm lucky they didn't get stuck!
>They certainly did!
>I was pretty excited about Vicky3 but I didn't expect to shit out a set of goal posts!
>Imagine my surprise!
>I'm lucky they didn't get stuck!
>!
man americans should really give up trying to be sarcastic, they are incapable of being subtle or nuanced
I gave up sarcasm. It wasn't easy. Shitting that motherfricker out was difficult, painful and traumatic. Reminded me of the time I crapped out irony when I first heard about IR. b***h just wasn't going to come out without a struggle.
Victoria on the other hand was easy. I pooed out a coat-hanger. You would think that would be hard to give up, maybe even cause some injury to my rectum, but no, it slid out nice and gentle.
Shitting out a coat hanger is some really pleb tier shit. Get on my level. When I first heard about Victoria I was so excited I immediately jizzed. Which was embarrassing because I was Best Man at my friend's wedding. He wasn't too impressed to see his future wife drenched in my cum, but his surprise quickly turned to shock as my anus expanded and I unloaded an anvil right out of my ass. It tore straight through my trousers and landed on the ground, heavily damaging the wooden floor of some centuries old historic church. But worse was to come. As I bent over to pull up the shredded remains of my trousers I was immediately overcome by the exhilarating excitement of only having three buttons. I let loose with with a vile mixture of high velocity gas and fragments of fresh wet stinking shit. It was like a machine gun but more of a "flabber! flabber! flabber!" variety. Startled, I couldn't but help moving my ass around in an attempt to see what was happening. As a result I manged to spray much of the congregation including the mother in law, the priest and the bridesmaids with sticky pieces of my pristine shit. Needless to say I wasn't the most popular person there after all that!
All you guys shitting out such interesting objects. I only shitted out an ordinary turd. Maybe I just wasn't excited enough?
>Franco-Prussian war
>Not a total war
Thanks for outing yourself as a moronic subhuman
The Franco-Prussian war was quick and decisive. The French were too busy being taking over by poltical factions like the Communards. The Germans just sieged Paris, and let them tear themselves apart. Plus, the Germans were trying out more modern tactics, and weapons with bolt action rifles. Sure, some things got burned, but it was in way total war on a scale comparable to the Napoleonic wars. It was quick, and easy for the Germans.
Yes, yes yes, all of that, whatever, who cares? All that matters now is stemming the flow of "the Deluge". There are reports coming in of London being under 3 inches. I dont want to drown in a sea of liquid feces, do you?
I agree. All these morons blithering on about shit that doesn't matter. We must focus on the shit that does matter. Specifically the shit that is pouring down our legs.
Wear gumboots. That's what I have been doing since I found about Victoria 3. I have been living in a state of constant excitement ever since. The gumboots will not stop you shitting yourself with excitement but they do catch the worse of it. Just empty them out at the end of the day and give them a good rinse, and you are set to go for the next day.
Wear someone else's shoes everyday. That way you dont have to bother rinsing anything.
Being quick and decisive or destructive has little to nothing to do with a total war. It has much more to do with the stakes and the scope. The german capitulation of frane during ww2 was quick and decisive, but the entire french army was practically destroyed and so at that point there was genuinely nothing left the french could actually do. Similar situation with the franco prussian war, where both sides were fielding armies of either similar or greater size than during the napoleonic wars, the war was ended by capturing the head of state of another country, and where the stakes were the creation of the german state and the collapse of the french regime. It didn't last ong sure, but to say it wasn't a total war is moronic.
>the prospect of going to war should be utterly horrifying
gays like you deserve to be castrated from birth
You must be 12. If older then you are a subhuman.
sign up for the un and destabilise a third world country for the global elite if you love war so much homosexual
or you could just go back
>wars should be utterly horrifying
You have completely missed the point of the Victorian world.
>The earth from the time of Queen Victoria's coronation to her death had a "point"
>people enjoy certain parts of history for certain reasons
>The entire earth had a "point"
have a nice day, nihilist.
>The entire fricking planet had, for a period of less than a century, a "point"
Yeah, I'm sure the Tommy that got stabbed by 10 spearchuckers at once at Isandlwana thought war was glorious
Yes that's the point. He wouldn't but everyone else did. It wasn't until everyone experienced that horror in WW1 that warfare lost its noble veneer; that's the tragedy and appeal of the Victorian era
The change of attitude towards warfare started long before that, by ACW and Franco-Prussian war the conservatives in politics and military were already complaining that war is neither fun nor honorable anymore. Hell even the Crimean War was pretty fricked up. Boer wars had concentration camps. When the Eight Nation Alliance raped and pillaged through Beijing the contemporary reaction was not nearly as cut and dry as you'd imagine, with each side trying to blame the other for going too far in their accounts. All this is still within the Victorian era. The noble veneer came from Napoleonic wars, the Victorian era is where it began to be eroded.
>began to erode
...and vanished completely in the trenches, leaving behind the Lost Generation.
I'm glad you agree
I'm glad you agree that the "point" of the Victorian era was the industrialization of warfare and the slow erosion of the once-noble rules and traditions it used to have.
>When the Eight Nation Alliance raped and pillaged through Beijing the contemporary reaction was not nearly as cut and dry as you'd imagine
Why are you lying?
cos he's homosexual ass redditor that has been brainwashed by marxism
Why were American, British and Japanese journalists of the era lying? Why was Mark Twain lying? Why did burgers and bongs feel the need to throw Russians/Germans/Japanese under the bus and their soldiers testified to seeing murder, rape and pillage with their own eyes (but of course those other guys did it, we totally swear)? I'm not saying the armed supression of the Boxer rebellion wasn't supported domestically in all eight countries (it overwhelmingly was), but if you think newspapers took a blasé attitude to killing and looting in 1900 you probably think crusaders went to the Holy Land because they wanted to find sandBlack folk to kill.
>you probably think crusaders went to the Holy Land because they wanted to find sandBlack folk to kill
nta but some of them did, at least in the 1st crusade
then again many of them thought it was too much work and settled for killing israelites in Europe instead
Yeah you're right he had the mentality of a 21st century redditor and thought Black folk were heckin holesum my bad
I'm sure he had the mentality of a 19th century man and thought dying horribly far from home for no reason was bad.
What does fighting spearchuckers in Africa have to do with protecting his family back in Liverpool? I thought /misc/acks were against foreign wars for profit.
He was happy to sacrifice hismelf for his country, yes. Unlike 21st century numales.
Supplying the one army you're committing to the invasion would be a nice feature. It would simulate the bureaucratic shame of having to send reinforcements when you realize the worst are better at fighting than you thought
It would also let colonization feel more expeditionary and less total war-y
I hoped they'd include weapon stockpiles like rifles, artillery and so on. Or that raising armies removes the pop from the province interface having it exist exclusively as a mobile pop. I was so damn disappointed when I saw the final result and realized they made no effort whatsoever.
IMO Paradox devs are utterly out of touch with their fanbase, It's otherwise inexplicable why they'd take a formula that worked and was beloved by so many fans with Victoria 2 and destroy it.
All they had to do was expand on some features (stockpiles, markets, buildings), address some of the criticism (diplomacy, SOI, RGO limitations) and redo the game in a modern engine that runs faster and doesn't die after alt-tabbing. They could have made it like this, it would have been a sure success, but instead they shit all over Vicky 2 and pumped out a game that is nothing like it.
They take a ridiculous risk and piss of all of the old fans for no reason. They know what we wanted and they made a conscious decision to deviate from it. I have no sympathy for that kind of stupidity, they deserve all the hate.
>It's otherwise inexplicable why they'd take a formula that worked and was beloved by so many fans with Victoria 2 and destroy it.
It will make sense when you start understanding that they've switched from making games with ambitious mechanics to making games with simple, easy to code mechanics. Pretty much every change between old paradox and nu-paradox has been because of this.
I knew the game was heading in a bad direction when I saw all of these pointless ugly 3d characters. This is really just there to appeal to the lowest plebs who can't play a game without having some shitty pointless character to identify/interact with.
There was some denial, but ultimately my first instinct was right.
Paradox should make limited scenarios to test their models, like Victoria: Boer Uprising or Victoria: Triple Alliance about the 2nd Boer War or Paraguayan War. It would allow them to develop their population, production, supply, and military systems while handwaving a lot of issues away as "off-map contributions" or whatever. They could gradually scale up the game world for 3-4 years before finally releasing the computer melting Grand Campaign
I'm already disappointed with how small and campy everything feels in Victoria 3 due to the lack of focus. Pic is ridiculous.
I hoped with all that 3d tech they'd go out of their way to show the vastness of the Empires back then, but it's unfortunately the same as EU4.
WIth the way they talked about city growth being portrayed on the map i wonder if you could just create one continous city on map with enough pop growth. Megacity 1 in 1880
This is a California that's 16% of the world's GDP in 1936.
Looks like there's a cap on city spread.
I just pooed myself with excitement. Sticky.
>Looks like there's a cap on city spread.
Yes, which is two. Each state can have one capital and one port city. That's it.
Basically, but not quite. California also has LA, and Texas ends up having 5 town total. In the end though, this is all mapgaygery that I don't personally care about.
Yes, and the GitLab is still up. That's how I played the Langay game above: I downloaded the GitLab patch for the first time yesterday, and it played reasonably well.
terrain map looks like SHIT
Well, it is San Francisco
Ye, it's a Paradox game in alpha. It's going to look like shit until DLC #3. Welcome to 2022.
That's literally the map from Rome 2 but with a modern looking city structure.
>many were excited for a more immersive HOI4 like style system
Only autistic HOI children would ever want this
>DLC will be the most ridiculous shit imagineable, aimed towards the typical mass consumerist popculture zhe/zhey zoomers who will gladly pay $40 for a new DLC where LE ALIENS INVADE THE WORLD AND THEN NAPOLEON COMES BACK FROM THE DEAD STORYLINE!! omg guys so much effort and immersion for a 19th century themed game.
the worst part is how true this is, there's GOING to be "le communist abe lincoln" DLC like all the HoI4 "alt-history" choose-your-own-adventure packs they've stuffed that corpse full of
I recall a dev hinting that they were likely going to have a Sunset Invasion type DLC but of a more 'Lovecraftian nature'. I don't know why they'd have a DLC based on the worst and least played CK2 DLC.
Because reddit will love it and that's who they cater to now
>guts war mechanics even though many were excited for a more immersive HOI4 like style system
no I wanted to keep the old unit system from Vic2 but with a complete rebalance to make certain "lesser" units more viable in early to mid game and revamp the actual battle system where it's not an even more moronic version of EU3/EU4 battle system, and discourage doomstacking. This combined with smaller provinces could make for some immersive war mechanics.
Naval battle system could've stayed untouched from Vic2 since that's probably the best one that Paradox has ever come up with, still beats EU4 and HoI4 in my opinion. Just change the unit balance to not make every late game navy just spamming as many cruisers as humanly possible and a few dreadnoughts for the brownie Military Score points.
That's too hard to code for Paradox
So it must be gutted, automated and dumbed down
>discourage doomstacking
If only you were there at Verdun to tell those morons not to doomstack
Vic2 was good at showing an abstract representation of what was happening during the WW1 battles but not at what was actually happening in them.
I would also make an argument that the general warfare system that both EU and Victoria series had works far better in Victoria since in Victorian times battles could go on for weeks or months, and doomstacking units does provide an abstraction to it.
Meanwhile battles between Renaissance and Napoleonic times lasted a couple of days at best with armies engaging and disengaging.
But if the map is to be dissected into smaller portions then this illusion of a grand battle happening in one place falls apart, then you basically have a simpler version of the HoI4 frontline system.
>yeah X mechanic in Vic3 is shit but Vic2 was even worse!!
Why is this an argument? Why can’t the mechanic just be good?
It's the ultimate cope/shill argument. They know that the mechanic can't be argued for on its own merits so it has to be compared to the flaws of a 12 year old game as justification. And even then it's rare for Vic3's mechanics to actually be described as superior; it just has to be justified with "this old mechanic was lackluster so it's okay if the new one is bad too."
On a side note, has anyone else noticed the captchas getting even more moronic recently? The fricking lines through the letters gives me eye cancer.
Thus spoke the LORD and he sayeth "Verily there shall be a great wetting of panties worn by the smoothbrains, for they are subhuman and bereft of intelligence"
And the people were amazed and asked the LORD "Oh Lord, why do frickwits think luring AI armies into attacking strongly defended mountain positions is so clever?"
The LORD replied "Because they are fricking stupid frickwits, devoid of all wit and wisdom, that's why. Heed my words well, fear shall grip the tiny little minds of the smoothbrains once it is revealed they are very stupid and there shalleth be great gushing of urine from their bladders. Best to wear life jackets than face drowning in the deluge"
And the people saw His words were true and just and rejoiced and bought life jackets.
Revelations of Vic3. Chapter 2. Verse 9
>Are you guys excited?
My panties are drenched.
frick you wiz
The map isn't actually going to look this ugly in the full release, right?
Any new builds?
I'm keeping my expectations at rock bottom and I'll be pleasantly surprised if Paradox doesn't shit the bed so hard it forms a hole in the mattress.
Still won't buy it for a long time after launch, though.
I was genuinely hopeful when they made that first announcement. They said all the right things, how they're going to avoid casualizing it, there will be no mana, elaborate economy system, etc. etc.
Every single thing that's come out since then has shown it's going to be a pile of shit. I don't know why I had a single shred of good will towards Paradox anymore. Just frick it.
Pirate on launch, play for 5 hours, uninstall.
>I was genuinely hopeful when they made that first announcement. They said all the right things, how they're going to avoid casualizing it, there will be no mana, elaborate economy system, etc. etc.
>Every single thing that's come out since then has shown it's going to be a pile of shit.
How dense could one be to write down things wrong with his games and then proceed to add them anyway.
All the dregs here who are such fricking "experts" on game design, know better than Paradox, and think their useless opinions are worth shit. Lmfao. Go and rub out another one, that's all you are good at.
>"experts" on game design, know better than Paradox,
Correct. Some of us here are actual indie game devs and know a thing or two about game design. Being a professional doesn't mean you aren't incompetent.
>Correct. Some of us here are actual indie game devs
>I'M AN INDIE GAME DEVELOPER!
Lolololol
Just fricking hilarious.
Your mobile tic tac toe game doesn't count.
>indie game devs
Go back to twitter
yes but i'm scared of things feeling samey and shallow for all the countries. idk what mechanics will give depth and make things feel unique.
>Still no game requirements
I'm playing on a shitty laptop, i need to know if i will need to build a gayming pc.
You can try out the leak since I doubt a significant amount of change is going to happen to it and just see if it runs fine. From my experience with it though it's going to eat through your gpu a bit since it has the forced terrain mapmode cancer plus all the 3d models for every single country leader, general, and pop type.
Who is good to play in the leaked build?
Russia so you can get the full lategame stellaris experience, or alternatively Prussia so you can realize how terrible the unification mechanic is.
Cuba could be fun. I want someone small and agrarian to start with.
Cuba
Brazil. Since naval invasions don't work you can pretty much just eat all of South America without any interference and develop like crazy off of that.
prussia into germany
Not in the slightest
For someone who's been following Paradox and their games for so long that it makes people who consider themselves oldgays seem like newbies, this one really struck my nerve. Stellaris was probably their last good game, mainly because of its original idea, but even that went to shit post 2.0 update.
They make their games so even the worst moron can enjoy them and cover up the lackluster gameplay with the superficial fluff.
Crusader Kings 3 sold because they had a good basis from CK2 and managed to emulate that including some of the CK2 DLC features in the base game.
Victoria 3 is going to end up the same dumpster fire as Imperator: Rome since they basically build the game from the ground up (instead of borrowing the features from Vic2) and building a game from the ground up is something that Paradox is no longer capable of. All they do is churn out new DLCs with the extra features for an already established basis.
It worked with EU4, it worked with CK2, it somehow worked out with HoI4 (although the base game was atrocious). Stellaris they overdid and turned it into some horrid amalgam of a strategy game. CK3 they stole their basis from CK2 therefore it worked.
Imperator flopped because there was no basis to speak of. Every bone in my body tells me that Victoria 3 is gonna flop because it's build on the very poor foundations that Paradox themselves barely believe in (just read the fricking dev diaries, especially the ones about the war and understand how insecure they themselves feel about those features)
>went to shit post 2.0 update
Explain
I think he's referring to the update that removed tiles and two of the three FTL drives.
Right, but why is that a bad thing? It seemed most people liked that change, especially the one to the tiles
Paradrones love change for the sake of change. As someone who played Stellaris since back then to now, the people who complained about tiles were brainlets who never played other 4X that were much better than Stellaris and had tiles. In practice, the building slot system is much more annoying to deal with and gives you less fine control. I guess that passes for depth among people who can unironically enjoy EU4.
Stellaris 1.0 was actually a brilliantly designed game. It was simple but kept all the core aspects of a space grand strategy game, making it very approachable for both normal people and veterans of the genre.
Later updates kept adding more bloated crap and "revamped" its base systems to be objectively worse. Modern Stellaris is a heap of trash which feels like it was made by a dozen different directors with different ideas who never communicate with one another.
>Stellaris 1.0 was actually a brilliantly designed game. It was simple but kept all the core aspects of a space grand strategy game, making it very approachable for both normal people and veterans of the genre.
I remember how much fun it was. It was just lacking content middle and late game. I recently tried to get back in to Stellaris, but nothing makes sense to me anymore. Space battles that last 2-3 seconds on normal speed and that attrition system, who makes this crap
Yes, most people are moronic.
well I don't know maybe because they've turned one of the few strategy space games that actually feels like it's set in space with no arbitrary borders, where you can strike the heart of the enemy empire in one good co-ordinated blow into another slogfest for the purpose of "strategy".
The truth is the people who originally made Stellaris were already gone from the company and moved on or on different project and they shuffled a bunch of people from the EU4 team that couldn't find themselves in Stellaris so they've decided to turn it into another EU4-esque game.
Almost all the subsequent features sucked out all the originality this game once had.
>Planets with limited space and you have to specifically micromanage to get the most resources from
gone
>a war system in which you could turn the tide of war with one good attack
gone and replaced with some stupid attrition mechanic that to this day barely makes any sense
>hiveminds that actually pose a threat
gone, they're as inept as regular empires now
>lategame crisis that actually felt like a war for everything
gone, by the end of the game your empire is usually so busted you can kill them yourself, unless you set the crisis date early on
What features we got in return???
>AI that can't fricking manage the economy and you always win against them post early game since you'll almost always have more resources by then
>insane mid-late game lag since Paradox in all their brilliancy didn't think to reprogram the AI when changing the pop system, so the population is always bloated
and their solution to it was to add a game feature that softlocks the population on a certain level (depending how much you make it before the game starts) making playing super tall on a single planet pointless
>lategame crisis (if you manage to reach it before you get bored of the game because of the lag) is pathetically weak in the base game settings and even then it often feels like a pest control instead of a last challenge.
keep in mind that wiz also spearheaded the stellaris 2.0 changes, and now he spearheads victoria 3
I hate the paradrones who keep praising Wiz.
Paradox suffers because they've stopped making games with passion they only produce games as a product now, for a mass appeal and Wiz is the post product orientated man in their company.
I still remember the days of Wiz just being the dude who did The Ryuku WC,i miss those days.
I mean between him and DDRJake it's clear that hiring fans is not a good idea anymore. Though I do give Jake some credit since he seems to be the person who understood the actual Paradox business model like nobody else did, if anything he did us all a favor by saying it like it is.
Imperator is literally built on EU Rome.
>Stellaris was probably their last good game, mainly because of its original idea
The original idea where it's just endless space but shit and all the flavour is replaced with flavour text and % modifiers?
And all the resources are named somehow more generically than in Civ or Settlers of Catan?
And you have endless popups which are "references" to popular Sci-Fi works?
Sorry "oldgay" you wouldn't know a "good game" if it slapped you in the face.
I lost any excitement I had when I first saw the 3D models in some early trailer.
I knew this was going to be pure trash when paradrones had to beg them to actually add political parties, because it was originally planned to have none at all
Just from that you could tell it was over.
When I first heard about Vic 3 I literally pooed my pants with excitement. Yes. Really. My anus totally relaxed and a huge turd just dropped out of my ass. I had no say in the matter at all. It just happened. Luckily it was fairly solid and I was wearing baggy pants. I dont think anyone noticed. Somehow I was able to slowly waddle to the toilet without it dropping down my legs. I was going to pull it out and flush it away, just as you would expect, and then do my best to wipe the smears of shit off the inside of my pants, but then I stopped and thought "No. This turd is special. This is my Victoria 3 turd. It was born in a moment of passion, created by my love for Victoria 3."
So I didn't flush it. I carefully wrapped it up in paper and kept it in my jacket pocket for the rest of the day, being careful not to squash it against my body. When I got home I gently unwrapped it, gave it a quick spray of water ( to keep it looking fresh ) and mounted it inside a glass jar with a lid. It now sits on my desk, next to my laptop, glistening. Occasionally I take the lid off the glass jar and have a good sniff. Sometimes I take it to bed with me and cradle it in my arms as I go to sleep.
I had a similar thing happen to me. Only it wasn't a turd but rather a corn cob. I have no idea how that got up there.
Dude, it is totally bizarre, I had the same shit happen to me. Only it wasn't a corn cob but instead it was a toy train. Now this is where it gets really weird. It wasn't just any toy train but it was the exactly the same one I had lost as a child when I was only 10 years old. I always thought some kid had stolen it, but no, it had been up my ass the entire time for all those years. I guess I can thank Vicky3 for returning it to me.
Frick, count yourself lucky. For me it was one of those highly quality Sidchrome 3/8" drive ratchets with an 18mm socket attached. Set to loosening. Can you imagine how unreal that was? Like who the frick uses a 18mm bolt on anything?
Anyway now the scars have almost healed I guess I can think myself lucky in some respects, those ratchets are expensive, and it will always remind of the excitement I felt when I heard about Victoria 3.
Phsst. That's nothing. When I heard about Victoria 3 I was so excited I shat out a train. No, not a toy train. But a complete steam locomotive. The most painful part was getting my ass scalded by the steam. That really stung.
I dont know why you guys are making such a big deal out of shitting out inanimate objects. At least they aren't kicking and struggling. When I heard about Victoria 3 I was so excited I shitted out a live donkey. Jesus Christ those things can pack a kick. Its been a week and I still cant sit down.
Ikr, those plebs aren't on the same level of excitement as us live-birthers. I dumped an entire shoal of Herrings out of my arse when I found out about Vicky3.
None of these stories are that bad, I don't know what you're all complaining about. When I first heard the Vicky3 announcement, I accidentally shat out the queen of England. It really hurt to get the crown out (the spikes got caught) but I was so excited, I thought it was Queen Victoria herself coming out of my ass to celebrate the new game. Turns out it was just Elizabeth II though. No idea how she got in there, I was so disappointed. At least she let me keep the crown - its stuck pretty firmly in my anal sphincter and we couldn't get it free. it reminds me of Vicky3 whether I feel it there.
Man, I am so envious. A crown stuck in your ass as a V3 keepsake. That's just so cool. Would it be okay if I had a feel sometimes?
Sure thing, anything for a fellow Victoria 3 enthusiast!
At least your crapped out something distantly related to Vicky3. I happened to shit out the complete works of Shakespeare. I mean sure, Victoria got me pretty excited and everything but how the hell is Shakespeare connected to the Victorian era at all? Its like 200 years years too early. Its no use to me either. I mean I like reading Shakespeare, especially Hamlet, I am sort of a nerd like that, but all the pages are stuck together with my feces. Very disappointing. I really dont think I will buy Vicky3 now.
At first I hated the idea of no warfare. But the prospect of getting a genuine royal crown stuck in my ass has got me all excited. I love Victoria 3 now! Even though I never played Vic 2 and have no intention of ever playing Vic3!
There's alot of things other than war that paracuck devs are changing for no reason that worked really well in Victoria 3.
For instance, uh who likes the occupation flags? Lmao. Whiz is prepared to die on that hill and won't change it when even the paradrones hate it.
Victoria 2*
I guarantee menial shit like occupation flags will be used as the scapegoat distracting from its fundamental design flaws when the game inevitably flops on release. They'll eventually patch it out, but by then it'll be too late and it'll become abandonware like Imperator.
I haven't been following development too closely, what are occupation flags exactly?
Occupied territory gets painted with a horrible wallpaper made of the occupier's flag.
This
Looks like a fricking texture error, like those purple-and-black squares in Source
wtf I thought they banned abortions
The bigger problem is the massive amounts of steam and huge military icons that make seeing the map impossible.
Maybe play the game on a screen bigger than a Gameboy Color lmao. Half these issues are just ESLs being poor or unable to comprehend things that a toddler in a normal country would be able to
Imagine making "able to speak English natively" the sole thing you can do better than anyone else
Americans are a sick breed and I hope you all starve to death because of governmental mismanagement
We just dont like you losers shitting up the board with your incomprehensible gibberish and moronic inability to understand anything.
The same could be said about you y*nks.
Incomprehensible gibberish? Moronic inability to understand anything?
...do you not know why "American education" is a meme?
I always thought the American education meme was about how assmad some Euros were that the average American couldn't point to their country on a map, so they coped by trying to make geography out to be some super important thing when it really just means you're autistic. Though I'm not actually sure why any of this matters. The average person, no matter where you go, is going to be moronic. And especially tourists, since the only reason they'd actually ever venture out to wherever it is they go is because literally the only thing they know about say, France, is the fact that it has Paris and the Eiffel Tower is there. And I can assure you that European tourists in America look equally moronic as American tourists in Europe, since everyone involved is usually dealing with things they're unfamiliar with. When you live in Europe, all of europe is familiar to you. You know the EU, how it works, traveling is both cheap and quick, and you interact constantly with people from these different countries. Similar story with America, traveling from state to state is quick and cheap, you know more about the states due to your interactions with people from all over the country and your familiarity with the nation's history and culture. You're much more likely to find intelligent tourists at less well-known locations, like the Monza Cathedral in Italy, but you'll also find less tourists/people there overall. It boggles my mind that we're on arguably one of the most intelligent boards on Ganker and yet we are still falling prey to the same squabbling and borderline propaganda that the lesser boards are obsessed with. Why can't we all just be friends and discuss strategy like true gentlemen? Or simply just ignore the morons and bait posters?
>Why can't we all just be friends and discuss strategy like true gentlemen?
Because you're not on a strategy thread. You're on a PDX thread.
>It boggles my mind that we're on arguably one of the most intelligent boards on Ganker
lol
You can say this board is stupid, but it undeniably is one of the smartest boards. Are you going to tell me that /x/ or /vm/ are better? All it means is that the other boards are much dumber.
>You can say this board is stupid, but it undeniably is one of the smartest boards.
Delusional.
>Are you going to tell me that /x/ or /vm/ are better?
/jp/, /toy/, Ganker, Ganker, Ganker, /po/, Ganker, Ganker, Ganker...
And yes, /vm/ is better.
/jp/ is full of schizophrenic seaBlack folk, Ganker is full of cumguzzlers and I'm not even gonna dignify the listing of Ganker and Ganker with a comment since you're either trolling or moronic.
>/jp/ is full of schizophrenic seaBlack folk
Step away from proto-/vt/ then.
>Ganker is full of cumguzzlers
Yes, but they actually engage with the topic of the board. /vst/ shitters all play campaign or vs AI.
>and I'm not even gonna dignify the listing of Ganker and Ganker with a comment since you're either trolling or moronic.
I have nothing to say to you, plebian.
>Step away from proto-/vt/ then
/djt/, idol and the 7th expansion threads are even more brown and schizophrenic. Seiyuu and JAV threads are about on par. What's left then, the train thread once in a blue moon on a slow day?
>Yes, but they actually engage with the topic of the board
Okay cumguzzler
>/djt/, idol and the 7th expansion threads are even more brown and schizophrenic.
Step away from proto-proto-/vt/ then.
>What's left then, the train thread once in a blue moon on a slow day?
The train thread is honestly the best thread on this entire imageboard.
jp is literally just /c/ coom dumps there's nothing of substance there anymore for >half a decade, funniest thing they done recently was touhou mount and blade mod, and that isnt even their OC its just some anon fixing up a chink touhou mod
>jp is literally just /c/ coom dumps
Lurk
Moar.
Sorry sweetie, that's literally the case. INMU and Gachi threads are dead, discussion about JP internet dies out quickly, anything that's not coom dump play MMO with me so I can groom you while ERPing in chat and spamming threads with literal bots or let's read 20 year old kusoge discussed to death threads is non existent, or when they are existent, they're again, pruned off the board by schizophrenic and bot threads.
jpsies are a perfect example of the alienated, hedonistic americanoid leeching off their middle class parents specimen; talking to walls, and cooming.
>/vst/ shitters all play campaign or vs AI.
Playing a Paracuck game online is probably the only multiplayer experience worse than playing Chivalry or Mordhau.
It's really not that bad. At least for the first 200 years in EU4, it's pretty fun.
>"Oh boy I can't wait to get death war'd by some moronic zoomer and go bankrupt, so fun and engaging!"
>"I get filtered by multiplayer and need to win against moronic AI"
shut up comfyhomosexual
You forgot /misc/
>It boggles my mind that we're on arguably one of the most intelligent boards on Ganker
bruh
Yeah, I'm sure before inexpensive mass travel and EU became a thing nobody in Europe could find France on the map. This is how you double down on being a mutt. It's not like burgers know a lot about the geography of South America in exchange for not knowing about Europe, you're just uneducated swine, all there is to it.
>what is proximity and relevance
It’s as if you’ve either intentionally missed the point or are missing half of what a human brain should normally have.
>
>it can't be deactivated
FUUUUUUUUUUCK
What a fricking mess
Yes, just like my pants at the moment.
I admire your commitment to posting about how your bowel movements relate to Victoria 3 in every thread. Unfortunately I can't participate as I haven't been able to poo since the initial announcement. I'm hoping it'll clear on release day!
Thank you for your kind comment. I must admit the excitement of Victoria 3 has had an extraordinary effect on the efficiency discharge of my excrement. I cant imagine how that is going to increase once I can start mashing 3 buttons. I fear the excitement might be so great as to permanently stretch my anus, much like leavening a tap fully open.
> I fear the excitement might be so great as to permanently stretch my anus
I did some research into this and its a real thing. Look into a buying a butt plug, it will stop unwanted leakage.
Paradox should have broken the game up into smaller packets to be sold separately. Having all the excitement contained in one game is just going to be too much for most people. Their anuses will become hopelessly stretched.
Don't worry it's not like you need to actually move troops or anything.
t. Paradox, probably
>All this french comune shilling when the 19th century was knows for the spring of nationalism
What the frick are they even doing.
Being Swedecuck ideologues. I wonder what Vic3s migration mechanics will be like
In the leak every nation with legalised slavery would fill with thousands of random sub-saharans
This isn't a bug, is it? They took care to simulate slave trade when it died outside of Africa some 26 years before game's start.
The West Africa Squadron is white supremacist revisionist propaganda, chud
I mean if Atlantic slave trade was truly over the squadron wouldn't have stayed around until 1870. There was still plenty of smuggling going on. Not enough for thousands of Black folks to randomly end up in Afghanistan of course.
how funny, that's the opposite of how it's working today
The dumbest part here is that because of how assimilation mechanics work in Vicky 3 these minorities will stick around forever, assimilation can't happen unless the culture being assimilated is already accepted. So the 200 Nuba, 150 Khoisan, 400 Lunda, 1,000 Bantu, etc minorities will just stick around unchanged in Afghanistan for the rest of the game.
It's even more moronic when you consider that this means. these African minorities living in, say, Brazil, will never assimilate to Afro-Brazillian culture even if they've lived there for 4 generations and shouldn't be any different from all the other slaves that came before.
>assimilation can't happen unless the culture being assimilated is already accepted
It makes sense in part, there are many examples of countries discriminating so heavily against a minority group that they aren't even considered truly human and thus can't possibly be integrated and assimilated (e.g. blacks in the US). The problem is that the only two tiers that exist in Vicky 3 are either this type of total exclusion from society or complete integration as an accepted culture, there's no middle ground for "discriminated against, but still capable of assimilation into the primary culture" which should be the norm for most cultures in most countries, like Poles in Germany or Koreans in Japan.
>It makes sense in part
Not really. The example in the post I replied to would make sense, IE Old World Africans assimilating into the New World African group present there, be it Afro-American/Brazilian/Antillean etc. What will happen to the swathes of Irish that immigrate to the New World? Will those tags have to accept Irish in order to assimilate them? I feel like certain modifiers could prevent instant assimilation if that's what the devs are after
It's worth nothing that cultures are either accepted or not based on their cultural traits and your laws rather than having a list of accepted cultures per country like in Vicky 2. So Irish would probably be accepted in the US and Canada because they have the Anglophone or Western European trait or something.
Africans not assimilating into New World black cultures is a problem though.
>It's worth nothing that cultures are either accepted or not based on their cultural traits and your laws rather than having a list of accepted cultures per country like in Vicky 2. So Irish would probably be accepted in the US and Canada because they have the Anglophone or Western European trait or something.
I'd assume it's more dynamic that Vicky 2, but long story short: yes they need to have it accepted. That's annoying regardless, depending on how those acceptance laws work you can have all kinds of Euro cultures that won't assimilate-- socioeconomics be damned
Has to do with slavery
According to the dev diary the laws are:
>Ethnostate: only Pops of primary cultures are accepted
>National Supremacy: Pops whose cultures share both heritage and another trait are accepted
>Racial Segregation: Pops of the same heritage are accepted
>Cultural Exclusion: Pops whose cultures share any similarities are accepted
>Multiculturalism: no cultures are discriminated against
So under Racial Discrimination which is the starting law for the US all Europeans would be accepted, Irish immigrants would assimilate to Yankee/Dixie.
What does Multiculti do? Assimilate every heritage ? if yes then into what culture?
It sounds like it treats every culture as accepted. I don't know what being accepted leads to in terms of game values, if that's what you're asking.
I meant, if pops of European heritage assimilate to the national culture like yankee in the usa, then what do non european pops assimilate to, if at all?
I know it doesn't really matter since every pop is accepted under the law, but I still would like to know.
If its multiculti then all pop types can probably become yanks in the US
But if yankee culture or whatever have European heritage, does that mean non Europeans in effect become European?
Again pointless from a gameplay perspective, I just think it funny.
I think so, in the dev diary they talk about minority cultures in the Ottoman Empire assimilating, which I imagine means European heritage balkanoids assimilating to the middle-eastern heritage Turkish culture.
>The Ottoman Empire, home to a lot of cultural and religious minorities, has fairly lenient Citizenship Laws but zero separation of Church and State. As a result they will initially have a lot of both assimilation and conversion
Which is complete Swedish public school ahistorical nonsense but there we go
The majority of Turkish people today are literally genetic Greeks or other Balkans who assimilated into Turkish culture. You really think the 70 million Turks all descended from the small number of Seljuk nomads who first rode out of the steppe and into Anatolia?
Yes but that didnt happen during the Victorian era did it
You think that the 7 billion people today descended from 10,000 ice age hunter-gatherers? Clearly there must have been alien immigration and assimilation.
t. has never been to turkey
Turkish is a meme ethnicity, I've seen people who wouldn't look out of place in Western Europe and people who wouldn't look out of place in Saudi Arabia all identifying as "Turks"
There weren't more than 2 million Turks at most when they first arrived in Anatolia and the Balkans. The Byzantine Empire on the other hand had 10 million Greeks.
800 years later and the Greek population has barely changed meanwhile the Turkish one has exploded to 70 million. The reality is that most of those 70 million Turks are the descendants of the 10 million 13th century Greeks (or Bulgarians, Serbians, Romanians, etc) who were steadily Turkified over the history of the Ottoman Empire.
> The reality is that most of those 70 million Turks are the descendants of the 10 million 13th century Greeks (or Bulgarians, Serbians, Romanians, etc) who were steadily Turkified over the history of the Ottoman Empire.
How is that possible when 1920s Turkey with the modern borders had a population of 13 million.
Methinks you are talking out your arse.
>what were the population exchanges
After the population exchanges, Greece had 6.2 million people and Turkey had 13.6 million people.
Today, Greece has 10 million people and Turkey has 84 million people.
Sounds to me like Turkish women are hotter, and that you're just salty over that.
Islam is a breeding multiplier
>He doesn't know of the Alien equivalent of Anprims illegally arriving on Earth to larp as based cavemen
If I remember correctly, a nation can have multiple primary cultures which are treated as equal. I know that for Germany, they have both North and South German as primaries (which means that ethnostates include both German cultures) so I assume after that multiculti would pick one of those to assimilate into. I don't now if it prioritizes "similar" cultures though when choosing what to assimilate into, so it could very well mean that some weird shenanigans might happen.
If I'm understanding it correctly they won't assimilate because assimilation can only occur between the minority group and the dominant group, and not from one sub group to another.
It makes sense but it's sloppy af
It doesn't really make sense when you have shit like Italian-Americans and pretty much all of the post-1965 immigrant sludge that you could acquire by passing the Multiculturalism law
What are they doing in Afghanistan in the first place?
Having slavery enabled causes sub-saharan africans to randomly teleport into your country, like how being the USA in real life causes Haitians and Nigerians to teleport to your southern border by some weird mechanism
>So the 200 Nuba, 150 Khoisan, 400 Lunda, 1,000 Bantu, etc minorities will just stick around unchanged in Afghanistan for the rest of the game.
Is there no migration mechanic like how in Vicky II cultures would seek to travel to same culture or core provinces?
>Having slavery enabled causes sub-saharan africans to randomly teleport into your country
lmao, Swedes are cucked
Why the hell do the cities grow to half the size of the entire landmass, they're 5x bigger than their modern equivalents
Otherwise you'd have to use your scroll wheel if you wanted to see Paradox's ebin building models
So I build up the Spanish economy, have 300k troops and am ready to reconquer the americas, but how the frick do naval invasions work?
You declare war and choose between "agressive naval invasion", "defensive naval invasion", and "passive naval invasion". Your troops will then get stuck on the falklands and die of attrition.
I used to be but not anymore. Game seems to lack direction. Paradox claims it's going to be some super realistic society simulator and that's the expectation that people on the forums have but it's gonna be filled with arbitrary stuff that other Paradox games have. I expect it to be a flop.
Jesus Christ, as if it couldn't get any worse. We had a nice Victoria 3 thread going and now people are talking about dropping turds, corncobs and Sidchrome ratchets out of their buttholes because they were so excited.
What the hell is a Sidchrome ratchet anyway?
>We had a nice Victoria 3 thread going
no we didn't lol
there cannot be "nice victoria 3 threads" because there's nothing nice about that turd
thus naturally people discuss off topic shit and are hostile in general
They will get better 3 months after release when shill checks bounce, fans see reality and trolls get bored.
It's going to be shit but I'll have 300 hours in it before they around DLC 1 out of 50 anyway
>Productivity drops by as much as 4 percent per degree when temperatures rise above 27° Celsius (80° Fahrenheit) in workplaces requiring manual labor. In highly automated settings, this effect is not observed.
I really hope we get a MEIOU style mod adding autistic climate and terrain settings to every state to simulate shit like this.
/f/ is the best board
That's right!
ayo...you be saying we wuz lecturers 'n shit?
Nevermind the kangademics, why is there 900 people working in a 19th century university?
The leak is eh. I don't really give a shit about the war because I'm no micro god. I'll watch spud for that shit. I don't like the lack of a national stockpile and I don't like the forced terrain map. I seriously don't like that. I'd rather be able to see the different state divisions and the colored map like usual. In the end I'm pretty fricking bad at it admittedly and haven't figured out how to reliably increase literacy since I constantly have interest groups with clout against me creating laws for schools
>how to increase literacy
Literally just build universities and sppam them everywhere. Coincidentally this will also increase your research gain linearly, so if you are ever struggling to research something you just spam more universities.
So... I don't technically need to worry about education laws? I want to see if I can create some autocratic dystopian powerhouse. I don't even know if something like that is possible in vicky 2 let alone 3
I believe education laws do help, but they're not necessary as far as I remember.
>Paradox
No thanks
It's going to suck.
>president
lol
My fricking god this game is going to be moronic. It’s going to be dead in the water just like imperator and just like Ck3 is soon to be
Can't believe that bigot forced universal suffrage on America, what a fricking Nazi
>that andrew jackson
did they even bother to see who he was?
Nah, but they will sure has hell do that for some obscure African negress princess
I don't think they gave any ruler a defined DNA, so they are just randomly generated
What is that 6 in a circle with wings? Character level?
nation/GP rank
Also why he does look like a dwarf?
Since when did Andrew Jackson have a beard?
>Implying paradox gives a shit about historically accurate white people.
That would take time away from making an EPIC, CHONKER DLC, of the global warming triggered Penguin eco-fascist take over, and their team up with anti-aparthide states to beat the heckerinoo out of us colonizers.
Jesus can you r/Ganker posters try any less harder to fit in
An expansionist in the 19th Century?!?!?! must be bigoted!!! also what is the point of their moronic 3d genetic system if they aren't even gonna try to recreate what people looked like?
>bigoted
>19th century politician
Do they not know the meaning of the word bigoted? You'd be hard pressed to find a modern western politician who isn't bigoted in favour of democracy and against a group of people for the audacity of being in a different political party or a social class.
What does the trait actually mean in Victoria 3?
It means they really heckin hate minorities, democracy and freedom.
How can you even hope to be able to accurately model the politics in that time period with that kind of mentality? It seems like they really aren't even trying.
If I was in the game industry I would push hard to launch competitors to the paradox games. From what I'm seeing you could probably steal a good portion of their customers.
>could probably steal a good portion of their customers.
All 234 people posting in this thread, compared to the tens of thousands of normalgay customers.
It's a petty issue, but the fact that capitalists do nothing at all in game but suck money from le wholesome 100 chungus workers feels dumb.
>heh but they do that IRL
Even if true they should at least have some positive effect in game, Vic2 capitalists were the best rich pop and were critical to getting fledgling industrial economies off the ground.
>capitalists were the best rich pop and were critical to getting fledgling industrial economies off the ground
State Capitalism and subsidies were critical to getting fledgling industrial economies off the ground. Backwards countries didn't have enough capitalist pops at the start of the game to even give you the efficiency boost, let alone build your economy for you. They were more of a UK/Germany/France/USA thing.
>State Capitalism and subsidies were critical to getting fledgling industrial economies off the ground. Backwards countries didn't have enough capitalist pops at the start of the game to even give you the efficiency boost, let alone build your economy for you.
You generally wanted to educated your population and build infrastructure first, because craftsmen need minimum 40% literacy and infra improves factory output on top of RGO production.
Victoria 3 really did do a great job at making pops completely worthless by adding the state-funded construction queue and buildings system. The fact that the number of capitalists in a state scale linearly with the number of buildings means that capitalists can never actually become wealthier except for when the buildings themselves make more money. Compare that to Vic2 where the number of capitalists could stay the same when factories grew, making their net income grow far faster than the factories did, thus allowing them to reinvest much more money.
For example, you could have 20 capitalists making 100K annually from factories, spending 40K on their needs and then putting the other 60K into investments. Let's say that as business grows, you could have 25 capitalists then making 200K, and spending 50K on their needs. Well now you have 150K being reinvested, which 2.5 times as much as before when the gross income only increased by 2 times. Thus, capitalists were capable of providing exponential growth to your economy.
But in Vic3, since capitalists scale linearly with the number of factories built, they can only contribute a % increase to the investment pool as much as a % increase in their net income, making growth equaly efficient through capitalists as through any other means. As such, they effectively only serve as a means to provide luxury goods demand and nothing else. Then couple that with the fact that capitalists can be employed from your peasant pops and you have wiz's dream project.
Comrade, we did it
>For example, you could have 20 capitalists making 100K annually from factories, spending 40K on their needs and then putting the other 60K into investments. Let's say that as business grows, you could have 25 capitalists then making 200K, and spending 50K on their needs. Well now you have 150K being reinvested, which 2.5 times as much as before when the gross income only increased by 2 times. Thus, capitalists were capable of providing exponential growth to your economy.
Generally this was a bad idea, it's better to build the factories yourself and NF to encourage capitalists so you can collect more taxes from them (they get the same total income regardless of pop size, but spend more money if their pop size is larger).
You'd get the same amount of taxes from them regardless since it would be proportional (at least, that's how it should work out mathematically). It's as you said, they spend more money if the pop size is larger, which is my main point that when the pop size doesn't change much, they have more net income and thus are able to more efficiently reinvest their money as opposed to in Vic3, which makes them useful for, well, generating capital. What you're describing with taxing the capitalists only to use their money to expand industry and then taxing them again leads to the same result (same amount of net government income) only with extra steps involved.
Actually you're both right his version is better for early game, even when you tax them they will still have plenty to invest and build. Late game when need for building slows down and you have more pops it's better to encourage more capitalists to fuel your economy they have a lot of daily needs.
>Victoria 3 really did do a great job at making pops completely worthless by adding the state-funded construction queue and buildings system.
So it's the next Imperator in every single way.
I mean, yeah? Did you expect something different?
> the map is pretty
> most mechanics are sacrificed to the AI so it doesn't shit itself
> actually playing the game isn't that fun
they are making the games for the observer mode, aren't they
Wiz apparently puts a lot of importance on their in-office multiplayer games.
But 98% of the buyers play singleplayer only..
>the map is pretty
I hate the Imperator map, the ck2 map and the vicky 3 map they all look like brightly coloured shit. Vic2 and HOI3 had the best maps by far.
>capitalists were the best rich pop
Not much of an achievement, they were also the second worst rich pop
warfare is a deal breaker. simpul as.
Great, get the frick out.
paradox shilling scum
>will not shut the frick up
>will not stop whining
>will not go away
>will not stop consuming paradox games
"Tsundere" is dogshit posing as a personality.
Speak english.
sadly no
My excitement was so great that I shitted out a complete water cooled Vickers machine gun. It appears to be genuine, and other than my shit clogging everything up it seems to be in excellent condition. I cant tell you how happy I am to defecate an item which actually belong to the time period of Victoria 3. I am going to set it up on my desk ( once its been thoroughly cleaned of course, lol ) and larp as a British machine gunner mowing down ranks of advancing Germans while mashing 3 buttons! DEFEND! ATTACK! STAND READY! They will not know what I am doing! Am I going onto the offensive, retreating, or simply just fricking around? They will be thrown into confusion! Lololol!
Not a lot. More gaymy mechanics.
I really don't like how they designed most aspects of the game, it really feels like these designers thought during the LUNA phase of mental moronation, the lead designer MAN, decided to become a bleeding axe wound, not in the traditional genitals, mind you but within the pre-frontal cortex, severing all brain function and all higher brain function to design something for babies and children.
Not playing it, PDXshill.
Is the game not for you? Well, maybe, but there's no harm in that. I mean, there's not a single game in the world that everyone can enjoy. That's why there's so many kind of games in the first place. If you think you won't enjoy Victoria 3 based on your experience and what the DDs showed, then that's alright. Don't buy it, don't play it. Simple as that. For instance, I don't really enjoy Crusader Kings, because I don't like to play as an individual, so I don't play it, and it doesn't make me mad. I've never asked or even wanted CK to become something else, something it's not.
I am going to translate what this guy said
into common speak, so you can understand it.
"Shut the frick up you stupid driveling piece of shit. No one gives a frick about your worthless moronic opinion. Useless mouth-breathing c**t."
There! I hope this has been of help to you! Don't hesitate to ask for more assistance.
>Please note that, like Ganker, "Generals"—long-term, one-after-the-other, recurring threads about a specific game are not permitted on /vst/. Such threads belong on
Frick off with your shitty unreleased paraisraelite game general.
>reddit the game
>reddit the company
>looks fricking worse than Victoria 2
Shit game, shit company, shit fanbase.
I still dont get what make Vicky fun
I tried it few time but there arent enough map painting for me to get bored few hours in
I primarily enjoy gasing Chinese people
Have you ever played it MP?
i enjoy avoiding the century of humilliation and making western empires get what they deserve
It's not fun. Racists only enjoy it because it lets them recreate the le heckin based time period where Europeans raped and pillaged the entire world.
Might makes right.
You need to go back
Autistic response to an obvious joke
Redditor humour needs to go back
trying way too hard
>it's only bad when Whites do it
Gas yourself
>I can't have fun unless Paradox has a mission tree/national focus which tells me exactly what to do
have a nice day zoomer homosexual
project much?
i hate the period because napoleon was moronic and made europe ugly few decades before game's start
but economy system of second victoria is very fun, i play it only because of it
Post number determines the time in months after release that V2 has more players in-game on Steam than V3.
I meant that last two digits of the post, which worked out.
The last three digits of this post determine the number of days after release until the first paid DLC comes out.
The economy won't work in-game, so there's no point.
I came so close to ending the game with 30 SoL. I fricked up near the end: my railroads weren't on auto-upgrade and California went down to 80% market access.
Fricking California bringing my SoL down.
Also Belgium AI was smart AF this run. I managed to sphere Belgium relatively early on (spheres spread through neighbors, and it's easy to border Netherlands to nab Belgium).
So Belgium took advantage of being in my sphere and went hard. Highest SoL in Europe by far.
Top countries sorted by GDP.
Texas is my puppet, and EIC and Belgium are my spherelings.
The AI actually plays with the April binaries (no Caligula patch) and the community patch applied on top. My first play-through was with Caligula, and it was awful, AI just sat around doing nothing. Playing on the April version instead is a lot better, and the community patch's fixes are super cool. Putting lots of straits everywhere to make up for the lack of naval invasions was a really solid idea.
did that v3 alpha leak ever get fixed by modders? especially after that gitlab shit was closed down.
I was sitting on my girlfriends lap when I heard about Victoria 3. Imagine her surprise when I suddenly squirted out a jet of hot liquid shit.
i played the leak a few months ago and it felt really shallow to me. hopefully v3 will have a ton of replay value.
>east india company
not
>east india trading company
dropped
r
o
p
p
e
d
I lost full control over both my badder and my bowels when I heard about Victoria 3. Now I walk around constantly dribbling out piss and shit. Damn you Paradox! Why did you have to make the game so exciting?
A steaming pile of crap.... Not the game! No! The game is great! Its just it made me so excited I vacated the contents of my bowels onto the ground beneath me!
Me too. I have to wear diapers now.
>As you have probably figured out by now, Victoria 3 is by far our most complex and deep economic experience to date. Many of our mechanics and terms can be found in a real world economy
Do the devs really believe this crap?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-51-tutorial.1532719/
Yes the Victoria 3 economy mechanics can be found in North Korea.
Nobody gives a shit about your autismal fixation with communism, ESL
homie i don't think any actual commies would argue that NK is communist
it does have a state-planned economy though, just like literally every economy in vicky 3
Nobody give a shit with PDX's fixation as well, but they keep doing it.
Excuse me, but by any chance are you a Pole?
LMAO larpgay, go back to your fantasy Confederacy DnD campaign
What hair care products you use?
They have unironically drank their own koolaid.
This all reminds me so much of Imperator pre launch.
The game might bomb just because its incredibly ugly alone
not even a little bit
Not even excited to pirate it and find out how bad they fricked up?
Every time I see anything about Victoria I immediately soil myself with hot liquid shit which then dribbles down my legs onto my shoes. Not sure if its covid or whether its just my excitement at being able to mash 3 buttons at this point.
Delicious war microgay seethe
I dunno, he seems pretty excited by Vicky3. Personally I wasn't so interested, I only involuntary emptied my bladder.
From what I've seen on youtube its just build construction centres in every state, then build iron mines in every state, then build tooling factories in every state, then build universities in every state, then build coal mines in every state, etc etc. Pretty much the entire game is in the construction menu.
Is this the deep Victorian-era economic simulation they wanted?
Or when you hire a general just instantly promote him to level 5.
Just seems like boring busywork.
You just dont understand what excitement means. Its all about building stuff and then hitting that ATTACK button! Try it sometimes. If you dont immediately get an excitement rush so powerful that your anus involuntarily opens and the contents of your rectum suddenly gushes out, then you aren't doing it right.
I admire your dedication anus anon.
Your support means so much to me in these times of stretched anal rings.
>Just seems like boring busywork.
Since EU4 that’s the direction nuparadox has been going in. They just don’t understand the way the old devs would make games with mechanics that interacted and played off one another, and didn’t require a million buttons.
Vicky2 as an example, you’d raise taxes on the middle class, which would have the compounding effect of making people in the middle strata poorer, which would have the effect of causing them to demote into the lower strata, thus decreasing overall taxes, while also increasing militancy, which could cause a revolt, which if it occupied provinces, would close the factories and RGO’s, which would cause the pops to be unemployed, and if you run LF destroy your industry, causing them to be poorer and have higher militancy, which leads to possibly a revolution which changes the government type to something you didn’t want, etc.
There you have multiple game layers all working together to dynamically tell a story.
>build construction centres in every state, then build iron mines in every state, then build tooling factories in every state, then build universities in every state, then build coal mines in every state
So it's just the bureaucrats > clergy > capitalist > craftsmen >clerks meta national focus flowchart, except in 10 times more steps that each have to be carried manually. Fricking lol, lmao even.
it 10000% is that, watch this video to see it in action
it's bureaucrats > clergy > soldiers > craftsmen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else
Ask me how I know you think laissez-faire sucks.
it does suck in multiplayer, it's fine in singleplayer because AI is moronic. Even if you go laissez faire there is no reason to promote capitalists or clerks, though. The small amount of them you need is easily gained by making your country into a non-shithole with conditions that naturally lead to them being promoted into without wasting any NF
In my experience clerks never show up on their own and capitalists need to be promoted as the country is being lifted from a shithole.
You really only need a miniscule amount of capitalists and using a focus to get more craftsmen is more efficient than using it to get clerks, so if anything clerk promotion is just a little bonus for a country that has actual access to resources and doesn't tax their middle class to death
clerks are based for research point and output for late game production
getting them for rp is a larp, you either have to get lots of them early when their small rp boost still has an effect but literally anything else would scale your country better than doing that or get them so late that their rp don't matter anymore anyways.
Late game production is more efficiently scaled by just mass-promoting craftsmen and letting some clerks exist naturally
You can only get so many craftsmen in a state.
>+2 base RP at 4%
>larp
>getting clerks to maximum capacity happens in no time
The only larp here is you.
>So it's just the bureaucrats > clergy > capitalist > craftsmen >clerks meta national focus flowchart, except in 10 times more steps that each have to be carried manually. Fricking lol, lmao even.
Much like the old "build as many identical templates armies as possible" is now "switch army production method to the highest tier you've unlocked". They've manged to replicate everything shit about Vicky 2 and just redistributed all the banal boring clicking to a different set of mindless repetitive tasks.
Dont forget the other 49% of the game, which is in the trade menu clicking "make new trade deal" over and over
The remaining 1% is the war """""system"""""
Sorry for copypastaing from another thread but I just downloaded and played the leak and I am PISSED
The two things that are by far the most fricked for me, like kind of irreparably fricked, that ruin the game for me, are the following:
1. You are in charge of a completely command economy. You have to micro EVERYTHING. It is INSANE amounts of clicking. You have to do a TON of construction (way more than Vic2) and you do ALL of it. Also the production methods thing is ridiculous as well. You are telling every fricking production building how to do everything they do. Not only is it tremendously un-fun (it feels almost more like a Tropico or citybuilder game than a Victoria game) but it is extremely unflavorful.
2. You are in charge of a completely command trade system. The lack of a world market or automatic trade system is incredibly fricked. Unlike Vic2 you don't make steel mills, which are in high demand, and then watch as the businesses grow and trade. You make the steel mill, then have to MICRO every single TRANSACTION. It's so fricking lame. "OK I have +500 steel production. 200 goes to Britain, 100 to France, 50 to Russia, 50 to Brazil...". And then you have to constantly be changing it all the time. It's made ten times worse by the fact that they are TONS of production structures. Like, so many fricking resource types. It would be really kinda neat to have that many ... IF they just fricking sold that shit automatically to the highest bidder. THEY FRICKING DONT.
ITS AWFUL. Dude like I was saying it's like playing a USSR style command economy where you pinch every penny and tell every liquor still and wheat farm and tooling workshop how to do their job. It's really moronic. Totally misses the point. As
said there's no "sim" anymore and the joy of watching things dynamically evolve. It's fricking cookie clicker.
HOW THE FRICK CAN THERE NOT BE A WORLD ECONOMY SIM IN THE WORLD ECONOMY SIM GAME
IT IS SO MUCH FRICKING CLICKING
IT IS SO MUCH FRICKING MICRO
>No results found for "Sorry for copypastaing from another thread but I just downloaded and played the leak and I am PISSED".
ok
First time I've seen complaints of V3 having TOO MUCH micro.
>First time I've seen complaints of V3 having TOO MUCH micro.
Play the leak b***h or watch this video
It looks fricking awful lol
Why would I ruin the experience for myself when I know AI is undercooked, dipshit? You realize you're whining the leaked beta is an actual beta, right?
I've already played Imperator, I know what a micromanaged economy and manual resource trade will look like.
its not AI its the basic mechanics of the game
and im not whining about the beta im whining about the mechanics of the game that is in the beta
do you have any evidence theyre gonna add a world market or have capitalists build their own factories before release? no? ok, then my point stands, they designed a shitty game
Keep crying, b***h. All that's needed is the Automate Exports button. For me. Not for you, though, probably.
>AI is undercooked
what is every paradox game ever released?
>click through the video
>see a revolution meter
>"huh I wonder how this works"
>revolution breaks out at a 100%
>except it's actually a diplomatic play
>the revolutionaries wait for 3 months before UN lets them actually revolt
>the guy clicks two buttons twenty times to mobilize his troops
>a green bubble from the popular strategy game Hearts of Iron IV slowly goes to a hundred
>it's over
Bravo Wiz, I wonder which DLC factory you're getting exiled to after this. I hope it's not Stellaris since you've done enough damage there as it is.
Why is this guy trying to be fully self sufficient ?
>First time I've seen complaints of V3 having TOO MUCH micro.
Literally everyone who played the beta complained about that. The ones who think war is the deal breaker are complaining from their armchairs. The base gameplay is fundamentally terrible and that is what will kill it on release.
lol
lmao, even
I play Soviet Union in CWE. I know all about economic micro-management, and derive satisfaction from getting that shit to run smoothly like a clock.
>First time I've seen complaints of V3 having TOO MUCH micro.
You're conflating the warfare complaints and the economy complaints. In warfare, there is not enough to do at all and is essentially just a waiting game as the AI rolls dice until it reaches the enemy capital. The devs promptly shuffled all micromanagement to the economy where you need to determine everything from what gets built in what order, in which location, the production methods (itself including the ownership and transportation in addition to the actual production), as well as micromanaging all trade. There are claims that there is some economy automation, and you'd be correct, but it only involves upgrading factories that already exist and have full cash reserves and doesn't even take production methods or infrastructure into account. This means that the player must not only still build a level 1 bulding for every industry, but also babysit the whole thing to make sure it isn't fricking up your construction queue and is actually buildig things you need.
Say what you want about the Vic2 economy being buggy or broken, at least you could leave it to do its own thing or even build your industry from scratch for you and it will still run just fine. Vic3 on the other hand needs constant care and attention to even run at all.
?t=26
Actually, it's not a command economy, since you, the player, are the hegelian Volksgeist driving the capitalists to harmonically structure their production around the interests of the central government.
What's the literal opposite of excitement? I still anticipate it though, just to make fun of the Paradrones and shittalk them on the steam forums and reviews which they cannot censor as much as Paradox plaza.
Wait. I am an expert on this sort of thing. I offer you my credentials.
I guess the opposite of excitement would be constipation through boredom. As in big blockage, hard, lumpy, painful and excruciatingly difficult to shit. The type of shit where the turd pokes its head out, takes a look at the world and goes "Nah, frick this, I am staying put, Tee Hee Hee!"
OMG! I had something like this happen to me when I found out how bad Victoria3 was going to be.
Normally I am what you might call a "freedom dumper". I get the urge to shit, I go to the toilet, and my shit just slides out perfectly, fast and easy. No fuss. No bother. Most of the time I dont even need to wipe because my shit is so clean and cling-free. The whole process takes a few seconds, no more, I kid you not. My sharemates have even taken to calling me "Speedy Gonzales" on account of how quickly I take a shit. But that all changed when I found out the command economy in Victoria 3.
The day started perfectly normal. Woke up, jerked off, showered, ate breakfast, you know, the usual. But then I wanted to take a dump. You can imagine my surprise when instead of the normal soft sausage being gently squeezed out of my anus I encountered this absolute hard motherfricker of a poo who would not budge. I swore. I pleaded. Eventually I even begged, but that damned turd was firmly stuck, part way out. I bore down with all my might, until I felt faint with the effort, and still it would not move. Such a dilemma. Should I just sit there and hope it would eventually pass out? Or should I try biting it off with an arse clench? Neither option was appealing, but I was running out of time. I had already exceeded the 20 second time allotment I normally reserve for my bowel movements. I went for the clench.
But the b***h was surprisingly resilient. It fought back. It was hard. It was strong. It resisted. I couldn't bite the turd in two. Dear God! It was horrible. I began to loathe Victoria 3 for what it had done to my poos. They had become hard brutal nuggets. It looked like I would just have to ride it out. I asked my sharemates to pass me food and water. In the meantime they would have to use the neighbor's toilet. Or just go outside on the back lawn. Its been 10 hours and I am still here. Damn you Paradox! Damn you all to Hell!
My God, that sounds tragic. I am going to uninstall right now.
I've never had sex before so of course, I'm excited.
I am glad to hear you are excited for Victoria 3. Let me give you some advice. You are going to need diapers. All that micro factory management is so exciting its going to make the contents of your bowels turn to liquid.
You will simply not be able to control your anus. Your sphincter will open wide and watery shit is going to dumped out like a burst dam. It will be messy. Wear old clothes.
Guys, where do I get a 'clean' leaked version?
Best answer gets nudes of this chick.
Check earlier threads on an archive site for a torrent download. That's the best bet but it's going to be difficult finding the community patches since most of those were wizz'd.
r/victoria3leaks
For V2 it's beaurocracts -> clergy -> capitalist (up to small %), with everything past that not mattering. Craftsmen passive promotion is far stronger than the NF so it barely makes a dent, and clerks as a whole come way too late and add way too little to make any impact.
That's why you alternate between craftsmen and clerks so that clerks are approx. 1/5 of the craftsmen. I go craftsmen to 10%, then Clerks to 2%, then Craftsmen to 20% and Clerks to 4%.
Also you the reply function gaygit, this ain't gsg.
I just do some craftsmen so there's a solid base (enough to support a handful of diverse factories) and then start pumping clerks. Craftsmen will rapidly promote NF or not, while clerks are strategically more important (research) and also critical for the output bonus.
The only reason to promote craftsmen after some initial buildup is if you just need industry score no matter the cost, maybe to hold on to a GP/SP spot or something.
Have you ever seen a huge amount of water dumped out of a container? Like one of those plastic swimming pools suddenly splitting wide open? Well, that's what its like when you get excited by Victoria 3. Suddenly your anus opens and all the liquid shit pours out. Unstoppable.
Ikr. Lots of players are reporting this phenomena. In some circles they talk about it as "The Great Flood", others just simply call it "The Deluge". In either case its close to biblical proportions. There have been suggestions that God is punishing the world by making a game so good that everyone will suffer the effects of uncontrollable violent diarrhea. We should be praying for forgiveness..
I have played the latest Vic3 patch for many hours now and it's bewildering how they managed to make a game that perfectly wastes your time without providing the tiniest amount of fun while doing so.
>it's bewildering how they managed to make a game that perfectly wastes your time without providing the tiniest amount of fun while doing so.
Most accurate description I’ve seen of Vicky 3 and nuparadox as a whole
Good description. I just spam whatever building gives me the most GDP, and rush reforms vic2 style. Mind you, the economy doesn't even make sense, but it's still the most "fun" you can have in this game.
For anyone interested in the issues of vic3's economy:
>goods appear out of nothing and can be sold into nothing, overproduction only halves the price you'll get, which can sometimes still run you a profit. I once joined the economic sphere of france and noticed, that they were producing 5x more luxury chairs than their economy demanded, but still made money. Because of that, I could make ridiculous cash from spamming logging camps, because France essentially had an infinite demand for it
>AI can import goods from you, which you import from them. Yes, for some reason this is a thing, and it makes absolutely no economic sense, until you notice the source of all evil: Trade centers. LOTS OF FRICKING TRADE CENTERS. I'm talking OPMs with level 200+ trade centers, which employ some 50% percent of their population. Trade centers generate money from thin air, and are crated by making trade deals. Because of that, some resource-starved OPMs specialize in importing and exporting the same fricking trade good in enormous values to create some cursed fricking service economy, that should have no right to exist.
>war is completely broken, and the AI can't deal with it. I've seen Argentine die to Guarani, that sould say everything.
>Guarani
WTF is that?
i think he meant paraguay
The lack of goods also means that exporting is objectively bad. All it does is increase prices which lowers the QOL of your pops. The V3 world is one in which every country wants to import as much shit as physically possibly while using protectionism to prevent exporting anything (i.e., the exact opposite of real life).
>exporting increases prices
How?
Prices work based on supply and demand. Importing increases the supply of a good, driving its price down. Exporting does the opposite, removing supply from your market thus increasing its price. This is all realistic, but the problem comes from V3 trade not costing anything aside from convoys (overland trade is free). This means that "trade" is just straight-up stealing other peoples' shit. You want to import (steal) as many goods as possible while avoiding exports like the plague. Later versions try to fix this by adding mana costs to trade routes, which doesn't address the problem of the system itself being ridiculous.
>removing supply from your market
Oh I get it. I forgot about the market area system.
It makes sense that you would want to import goods to improve your supply, but how do you pay for them? If all you do is import, all your money will get exported and you'll run out.
Or is that what the other guy was saying, you can just sell into the aether and still profit, thereby creating money from nothing (to allow imports) while keeping those produced goods "in your market" which holds the price down.
>how do you pay for them?
You don't. Like I said, imports are effectively theft. It takes supply from other countries and is only limited by convoys. It also creates very well-paying trade center jobs, which can easily employ hundreds of thousands of people.
>running out of money from importing
Not even a thing in vic3's economy. I played some time as Uruguay and just imported everything my pops needed, exported nothing, and made crazy money. My pops had crazy high living standards, because eveything was cheap and they still got money from their regular jobs. Money, therefore, ALWAYS comes out of thin air.
That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read, and I am in awe that the dev team sat around a table, agreed on it, and implemented it.
>That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read, and I am in awe that the dev team sat around a table, agreed on it, and implemented it.
You just don’t have the IQ to appreciate it chud. Get a economics degree and then maybe I’ll care about your opinion
Maybe he should have been a gameplay designer instead of QA lead.
I hate Proud Bavarian so much, The final boss of Paradox shills
>supply and demand alone don't create an accurate model of a world economy
>to do this you have to factor in the cost of trade
>tfw Labor Theory of Value was right all along
>tfw Marx wins again
We can't stop winning bros.
Supply and demand would do fine by themselves if consumption wasn't independent of and potentially higher than supply as seen in Paradox Interactive's newest title Victoria 3, coming soon to your home PC, Sony(tm)-brand console, or Apple(tm)-brand iPad device!
>the exact opposite of real life
Importing everything while producing nothing is how you end up like Sri Lanka. In the end importing/exporting is just buying and selling. In order to buy you first have to produce something. In V3 just buying in itself produces value, which is how Keynesians wish the economy worked.
I think we can all agree that trade is broken on a fundamental level in the leak and I would go so far as to believe they have already tackled the problem internally. The real problem of the game is that you, as the player, are 100% in charge of shaping your industry and it's repetitive as FRICK. Goods can be broadly divided into goods you want as cheap as possible (which is everything construction and military related, plus paper) to drive down your government expenses, goods that don't matter to your country (shit you can substitute such as wine, meat, fish) and goods you want to have in good supply, but not as cheap as possible. Why is that? First of all you would be wasting labor on shit that doesn't increase your army size. Army size comes from coal+iron+steel+wood+sulfur which turn into small arms, artillery and munitions. Why army size? Because the cheaper the inputs, the cheaper the outputs and the cheaper the weapons the more barracks you can afford. The optimal procreation SoL is somewhere around 12 or 13 so you just have to keep everything else around a value where your lower class hits this mark with current market prices, plus taxes. Giving them more, as in making goods cheaper, would be a complete waste of resources. Here is also a reason why trade is bad: Trade centers are unproductive. They earn people cash(too much) and don't produce critical resources. At some point your country hits an economic equilibrium where the natural critical resources can't keep up with consumption, so all you can do is to increase tech for more output or conquer more land. That's the entire game, you basically pretend to be a computer program.
Unless you are a Pdx dev. You will epically roleplay as banana republic and build more banana plantages as your people go unclothed and without heating, because that's super epic.
The problem is the construction system on which the entire game is built around. After the early game you have so much capacity that "maxing out" states is trivial and is only limited by player will. It's as if it was designed by Stalin; in order to get things done, all Stalin has to do is wave is hand saying "exploit the resources" and it happens. This is a big problem because that is not how real economic development occurs.
One example that kept happening in my games is the oil shortage. Oil is an incredibly productive good that has effectively infinite demand. Its price therefore is pushed the max, until it reaches the magical threshold at which factories no longer are productive and your entire economy collapses. Naturally you'd think to fix this by getting more oil, but that's not possible. You max out oil production in a year and that's it, the resource is fixed, you can't get more no matter how much you pay.
>"These factories profits are off the charts! Sir Oil Baron, we wish to buy more of your produce!"
>"Sorry, don't have any."
>"Sir Baron, please reconsider. I am ready to pay any price!"
>"I told you, we're out. We fully exploited all of California's natural resource last year. Nothing more we can do :^)"
Construction is based on fiat, meaning exploiting resources is trivial, and you constantly run out. The idea of completely maxing out California's capacity for agriculture is ridiculous, but this happens constantly in this game for every state you control. It feels like shit because instead of real economics it runs on magical Stalinism.
Don't new oildeposites get discovered as years go by like in 2 (and IRL)?
Lost-cost oil is discovered over time, not oil in general. Today we have a tons of untapped fields which remain untapped because doing so would be not economical. This is not represented in V3, because everything is instantly tapped by will of the state.
>Given certain borders, your economy is functionally growth limited, with border expansion your economy is growth limited by the planet's capacity.
I got that feeling too when playing too, and it's terrible. Physically running out of wood is an absurd concept IRL, but it's something that happens very often in V3. It has an extremely imperialist/Malthusian view of how economics works, where resources are extremely limited and you're constantly running up against your static carrying capacity. I'm not an expert on it, but I'm guessing this stems from the developers' Marxist view of economics?
>Physically running out of wood is an absurd concept IRL
No it isn't. Britain fricked up its forest management to keep up with naval demands.
>Britain has bad forest management
>Runs out of wood, tool/furniture and all other reliant industries collapse, entire society reverts back to subsistence farming standards of living
Wow, so realistic!
The devs literally said colonialism would be used to get resources and not for imperial dickwaving with a side bonus of some resources as it was IRL
>colonialism would be used to get resources and not for imperial dickwaving with a side bonus of some resources as it was IRL
The opposite was the case IRL
I can't tell what either of your positions are, since neither of you uses punctuation.
As the other anon said, everything is essentially taped by the will of the state. Since construction capacity is softcapped by state income (already a ridiculous mechanic), you can effectively reach explosive growth whenever possible and run out of resources extremely fast, simply by queuing 20 or so buildings in the queue and after a few weeks it all gets built. In fact, it gets even more ridiculous. In a Russia game I played, I not only had a crippling sulphur issue throughout the game despite having fairly large deposits, but also ran out of oil supply in about 3 years despite tapping every single oil deposit from the Caucasus to the Urals with the best production method, mainly because the state was paying for enourmous construction costs and was basically able to completely fill a state with buildings in a single week.
So wait. Are you saying you are constipated ( "rocking out" because of boredom ) or that you are constantly shitting out liquid feces ( "flash flooding" because of excitement )?
We need clarification.
I am most certainly rocking out.
Oil is late game baby shit, before I reach oil I am already long hard-capped by wood. Maybe I'll make a point out of not producing any furniture next game, but that's exactly what I mean. You just run out of a resource and that's it, you have to entirely stop expanding anything that depends on that resource or you are just going to collapse your economy. None of the shit in the game matters, none of the events matter, everything is subordinated to the player acquiring more resource deposits. Even if we assume there will be a proper, functional trade system, the current design hard caps trade via port capacity. Given certain borders, your economy is functionally growth limited, with border expansion your economy is growth limited by the planet's capacity.
Don't get me started on how cattle herding and farming use the same arable land slots. Shit's fricked up if you don't model irrigation.
Its absolutely astonishing that people here are debating the merits of 3 button warfare and repetitious economic micro. The real issue is all the excitement Victoria is causing. So many people have now heard about Victoria 3 and have literally crapped themselves with excitement. Literally. Liquid poo in their pants. Why aren't people talking about this more?
I know, its just incredible. All the b***hing about the a game that hasn't even been officially released! Yet at this moment decent citizens are walking around with turds drying out in their pants, and all because they were so excited for Victoria 3! This should be headline news, yet it isn't!
>ITT
Go back.
>ftw started on this site on /b/ around the time this meme started popping up and I had just gotten out of my emo stage but still was familiar with all the 2010s emo revival posthardcore shit
Man that meme takes me back. 5 years ago feels like yesterday
>inb4 newbie
No shit bro congrats, here's your reddit karma
22
yeah of large trunked century aged hardwood oak, not of wood in general
How do you assign troops to generals?
Regarding "pops", are they considered as individuals like in V2 for purposes of migration, assimilation, promotion, etc, or is it all in percentages?
As in, if some Irish people migrate to the USA does that mean there are now 2 Irish farmers in some province, or does it mean that some province in the US is now <0.01% Irish? The first implies the second, but the second does not necessarily imply the first.
I believe that they are considered individuals in terms of migration and assimilation, but for promotion or job-switching they don't seem to have much agency. An example would be that you might have 23 orthodox polish peasant living in the state region of warsaw, and they migrate to the state region of kiev where the standard of living is high. However, once they get there you can simply place down a coal mine and they will become laborers. And then you switch the production method and now they are machinists. And then you destroy the mine and build an administration building and now they are bureaucrats. So in a way, pops still exist and do (some) things, but in practice are only relevant as a stat measurement device for what % of your state is discriminated against.
Oh man that fricking sucks, they somehow managed to ruin the pop promotion/demotion system from vicky 2
A snippet from the latest AAR on their cancer discord. Victoria 3 will in fact feature a wood based world economy where everything will revolve around conquering new lands to gather more wood.
A little late but not entirely ahistorical
THE ULTIMATE SOCIETY SIMULATOR
>my paper was being exported by britain
How does a foreign country "export" your domestic goods, wouldn't they "import" your domestic goods?
More importantly, I thought goods were conjured from nothing in exchange for money so even if he exported all his paper wouldn't his administration factories still be able to buy paper?
there's like a 20% threshold which triggers a shortage modifier otherwise it simply costs more money, but that also means that britain was stealing such a large number of goods that the buy orders were at least 5 times larger than the sell orders
My poos are very soft