https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-sv-ou-suspect-process-round-12-moth-to-a-flame.3741138/#post-10072398
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Volcarona being suspect tested
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-sv-ou-suspect-process-round-12-moth-to-a-flame.3741138/#post-10072398
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>clown fanfic format
why should I care exactly
Hey Verlisify
>wtf this mon beats fairies? ban it ban it ban it!!!
again? what a surprise.
why did they reintroduce it if terashit is untouched
A bunch of shit dropped when DLC2 came out, including Volc. They felt the council vote was too hasty and are now re-testing it for the masses. I don't think it'll get the boot again considering public opinion, but none of those shitters get reqs anyway so who knows
It should've been tested in the first place. Just like Sleep should've been suspect tested. Both still probably would've been banned, but quickbans should be reserved for the likes of Genesect and Terapagos, not for things more manageable.
>candyland meta
They're really banning Volcarona again before Roaring Moon?
>inb4 one trick pony
Spectrier is still banned bro
YOU WONT GET AWAY WITH THIS FINCH
Roaring Moon is piss without x2 your legit low skill if you lose to this mon
But it is a bug?
Why would they ban a bug?
Bug is the weakest type, it doesn't make sense
This is the gen where your initial typing doesnt mean shit
QD, Morning Sun and Giga Drain make it a LOT more resilient and dangerous as a wincon than moth.
Bug is stronger than Ice
This triggers the Yawngay
what makes it better than iron moth?
Wait really? Why now and not several generations ago?
Is Azumarill dead or something?
Tera Grass, Water, or Dragon
I despise Gen 9's meta
>I lost on the ladder so I must ban what I lost to!! The fanfic meta must be curated specifically for me to win using troonymons!
Smogon will never be taken seriously.
Anything to avoid suspecting Gholdengo, eh?
Gholdengo is literally garbage.
With KingBlack person, Roaring Moon, Volc, Gouging Fire, Tusk, H-samu it has no chance of being broken.
Banning Volc would help getting rid Ghold because it loses one of it's counters.
>string cheese man has had a stranglehold on the meta all gen
>a format-defining pokemon who has massive effects on which pokemon are viable and forces huge swaths of pokemon to run boots because removing hazards is an arduous task
>tee-hee we will never suspect him 🙂
smogon is dead.
AIEEEEEEEE nooooooo you can't use a Pokemon that beats my Gholdengo and Kingambiterino!!!!!!!
Why is omgoon like this?
They have a perverted sense of balance. X is good gameplay and we want to promote that, Y counters X so it needs to be banned. I'm not a compgay so I don't care but banning things based on "I don't like it" will never make sense to me.
Their metric is Balance or Bulky Offense. If Stall or HO is the dominant team style, then thats an unhealthy meta
No it isn't you fricking Black person. lol. They want to ban volc because it's the "matchup moth" and negatively impacts tournaments
volc isn't making HO or stall better particularly.
They might even unban gems in BW to make HO better. But if they do this they will also ban cloyster because it's considered "matchup fish" like volc
What they call "unhealthy" is basically "skillless sweeping potential". HO can be skillful.
If the only reason it's OP is tera, then maybe tera should just be banned. Nobody actually likes it, and it's already banned in most other metas.
there's a large faction of extremely autistic people who think that banning tera will make gen 9 into gen 8.5 somehow
they are the reason it hasn't been looked at yet
If almost every single offensive pokemon is overpowered with tera, then the problem is clearly offense.
Smogon should just ban all offensive pokemon and strategies. Defense and stall are the only TRUE measure of skill anyways.
I love my team with 3 Regenerators.
There are plenty of offensive Pokemon that aren't broken with Tera. Garchomp, Heatran, Greninja, Darkrai, Ceruledge, Blaziken, Quaquaval, Skeledirge, Meowscarada, Manaphy...
If Tera required holding an item to work, would they still complain about it being overpowered? Then again, they went as far as to ban Sleep.
nah, it would still be fundamentally busted because there's no way to tell who's going to tera OR what type they'll be.
with megas you could tell who could mega, with z-moves you could tell what types they could throw at you if you knew the moveset.
while with tera, there would still be no indicator of either.
the sleep ban is just another symptom of the obsessive need to keep tera around. turns out being able to sleep a mon then swap to a type that's only covered by the mon they just slept is broken, who knew?
So Terastal is cancerous not only in lore, but also gameplay, got it.
tera is a fun gimmick. git gud.
It won't even be voted ban
Any super geniuses want to brainstorm what wold happen if spikes and rocks got banned? In this hypothetical Toxic spikes stay just because I think they’re average.
moltres and smogonbird would become really good walls
regenerators would become somehow even more obnoxious
most things that hold HDBs right now would drop it for other items
I can see volturn/switch stalling becoming better
How I see it is offensive could become more viable. No need to run boots so just run a band or life orb. Regeneration already got nerfed and regen moves only have 8 pp. With almost no need for defog and no rocks or spikes more pokemon can have an actual fourth move that might catch people off guard. For the ice type enjoyers this is the buff they have been waiting for maybe. Dnite and Volc would reck but maybe some pokemon come back from Ubers and balance something like stall or strong sweepers. Maybe ice types become unstoppable.
Offense isn't becoming more viable if you remove Spikes or Stealth Rocks. Those are core parts of offense. They deal % damage meaning they're much more effective against defensive teams that are used to taking only 20 - 30% damage a hit. Throw in Stealth Rocks and suddenly those 3HKOs they can play around easily turn into potential 2HKOs meaning any damage racking up becomes deadly.
Offensive Pokemon already don't care about taking damage from hazards. Weavile is going to die in 1 hit no matter what so racking up repeated Stealth Rock damage isn't going to affect its viability much. What DOES cause it issues are Sticky Webs and Toxic Spikes. The former let slower Pokemon outspeed and OHKO it while the latter allow defensive Pokemon to wear it down while playing it safe since it will eventually succumb to Poison damage whether it switches or not.
Look at basically any strong hazard setter's most common teammates and you'll see loads of Hyper Offense Pokemon.
>Stall becomes viable again without any way to whittle them down.
>Focus Sash becomes way more common with few ways to break it
>No one uses H-Samurott or Kleavor anymore. They both fall down to RU or NU.
>Switching becomes harder to punish meaning bulkier teams are incentivized to switch as often as possible, slowing games down Gen 9 would go from being the fastest meta on average to like the 2nd or 3rd fastest behind only Gen 5 and maybe Gen 7
>Sticky Webs become way more common as there is little to punish repeated Ribombee switches if you don't manage to kill it when it first gets webs up and as people drop HDB meaning their team is more susceptible to webs
>Corviknight, Skarmory, and Iron Treads fall out of usage
>Zapdos and Moltres go back to OU and start walling everything
>Strong sweepers like Dragonite and Volcarona can now hold a real item again, making them banworthy.
It would be a clusterfrick for sure.
>Stall becomes viable again without any way to whittle them down.
These "balance" teams that spam HDB are borderline already stall
I'm so glad Popplio became a valid mermaid instead of some chud clown. Look at Skeledirge to see how awful that is.
Guys I fricking love bulky Breaking Swipe Gouging Fire. I love finishing off wienery motherfrickers who DARE to bring Garganacl only for the horror to sink in on their faces as I reveal Tera Poison + Breaking Swipe + Morning Sun. It's even more fun when you message them afterwards and let them know how scummy they are for even daring to use Garganacl against other people and they start malding.
The fact that it also works against the matchup moth is only icing on the cake.
>It's even more fun when you message them afterwards and let them know how scummy they are for even daring to use Garganacl against other people and they start malding.
Pot calling kettle black, but that's just Gen 9 in general. Gen 9 metas across all the playstyles, from OU to VGC to gimmicky shit, it's just people using the most degenerate and disgusting strategies possible.
Garganacl is particularly degenerate. Gouging Fire is one of the more honest new Pokemon. It's a weaker version of Zard X that doesn't take up a Mega slot.
Based Gouging Fire Enjoyer
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2102997339
I haven't played pokemon since Black/White 2. What the frick is this ceaseless edge attack laying spikes at the same time as doing a shitload of damage? That seems broken, why isn't it banned?
>what the frick is this ceaseless edge attack
97.5 base power, 90 accuracy, sets a layer of spikes.
>that seems broken, why isn't it banned?
It's because Samurott is a shitmon. That's why it's balanced. Having Draco Meteor accuracy definitely doesn't help it either.
Kleavor got a similar move that sets Stealth Rocks and is a menace in UU.
if bug type sucks then explain this
It was never the type that mattered but the stats + abilities + move pool. You could take G-Darm and make it Bug/Poison type and it would still annihilate the entirety of OU. It'd probably be considered even better since it'd have actual resists to switch in with and have STAB U-turn
Volc can change out of bug type now.
Volcarona is Grass type anon
You've inadvertantly hit the nail on the head about what happened with Volcarona: Bug is ordinarily a "bad" type that gets supported by powerful gimmicks in its successful members, such as access to rare boosting moves and strong offensive movepool in Volcarona's case. These things are supposed to make up for the Pokemon's typing. So when the mechanic to change type comes into the game, Volcarona gets improved more than other Pokemon.
Bug/Fire is actually a good type to begin with. Its issue is that Stealth Rocks kept it in check. HDB did more to help the matchup moth than any other change. It would've been Ubers in any other generation if Stealth Rocks were banned.
Why does Smogon hate my favorite pokemon?
>Volcarona gets suspected twince while Gholdengo and Kingambit continue to get away with warcrimes since day 1
Why is Smogon so adamant on keeping these two buttholes around? Literally no one likes them, and the meta would be better with both gone.
>Can't counter Kingambit nearly 2 years in.
Are you fricking moronic?
I'm a time traveler from Gen 5 OU. LMAO ROFL WHY THE FRICK IS VOLCARONA BEING SUSPECT TESTED HOW moronic ARE THESE homosexualS?
1. Volcarona is immune to entry hazards now
2. Volcarona can change its type at a whim. Usually it goes Grass, but Water, Ground, Fairy, Electric, and Poison are also viable.
3. Volcarona also gets an 80 base power Hidden Power variant of the type it turns into.
wow crazy I can't believe gamefreak gave Volcarona all 3 of these unique buffs that are only something Volcarona has
Volcarona takes advantage of those buffs better than most Pokemon.
i cant believe you have over 1100 elo
suck my wiener homosexual
Yeah, it's a shame that Game Freak would do that.
If you were a actual time traveler you would know that Volcarona was suspected early during BW.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-round-5-pokemon-suspect-voting.3455842/
Smogon hates well-designed, good-looking pokemon like Volcarona and loves ugly dogshit that shouldn't exist like Garganacl.
I got to 11-0 and then lost a bunch of battles to bullshit hax
Never touching """"competitive""" pokemon again
Protosynthesis was the most boring way to buff Sun ever. When Sun really needed was buffs to the abilities that make use of it. Leaf Guard should've been like Hydration so anything with Leaf Guard could heal to 100% and clear statuses for free if they Rested under Sun. There should've been more decent Chlorophyll users because having literally only Venusaur (and H-Lilligant now I guess) 9 generations in just isn't going to cut it. Rain gets to have Thunder, the new Genie moves, and Hurricane, so why does Sun only get Solar Beam and its physical variant? Hell, why does Solar Power actively kill your Pokemon for a measly 1.5x boost?
Having good Drought Pokemon wouldn't hurt either. Torkoal is fine, but it just isn't stacking up to Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Pelipper, or A-Ninetales.
It would be cool if there was a regional form of Volcarona that was weaker and didn't have Quiver Dance but came with Drought. I doubt it'll happen since Volcarona has Iron Moth and Slither Wing now.
Or just give Drought to Centiskorch
The biggest problem Sun had was that the main type it supported is weak to the other type supported by that same weather. Water mons can both benefit and often have abilities that synergize with rain.
Rain has an inverse effect where Thunder exists to punish the Water types abusing Rain. But in effect, it just gave more versatility to Rain teams.
Exactly. Protosynthesis is not very exciting, but it's also exactly what Sun needed because it introduced a ton of Pokemon that could benefit from the weather without being weak to boosted Fire hits. Rain can support Water-types, but also special-attacking Flying and Electric Pokemon.
The thing is is that Protosynthesis can easily backfire on Sun teams, and while the good Protosynthesis Pokemon all resist Water (+Great Tusk), none of them are good against Ground. It's rather hard to build a Sun team that doesn't eat massive shit from Great Tusk. Great Tusk being great outside of Sun really limits Sun's viability.
doesn't walking wake shit all over tusk?
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 277-327 (81.7 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Leading Great Tusk into Sun basically guarantees you pick up a KO. Especially if you have a Primarina to hard switch into Walking Wake for free.
The vast majority of Chlorophyll Pokemon are dogshit. It's basically Venusaur and H-Lilligant, and neither of them can switch in on Ice Spinner.
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant-Hisui: 290-342 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Close Combat also OHKOs Lilligant for free.
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant-Hisui: 325-384 (115.6 - 136.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
sure, if you're a moron who just leads torkoal every time then people will take advantage of that. the cool thing about gens 5 and up, though, is that you can pick your lead. they have tusk? think they're gonna lead it? cool, you can lead wake and force it out immediately.
i don't know why you're whining about sun being le bad into tusk when it's way better than rain right now.
Most people lead with a pivot that can easily bring in Tusk if Torkoal doesn't immediately switch. Tusk IS going to get in at some point and claim a Pokemon of yours.
>i don't know why you're whining about sun being le bad into tusk when it's way better than rain right now.
Who said I was whining, ESL-kun?
Besides, Rain is actually better right now. It was good enough to get the otherwise innocuous Archaludon banned. Even without Archaludon it's still incredibly strong, it just doesn't have a good defensive backbone anymore. But Sun doesn't have one either.
>sun is... le bad, because the most balls to the wall offensive weather has to play... offensively? the horror!
any offense team, regardless of how well-built it is, will have mons that can come in and pick up a KO. that's just the way of the game, and you play around it. keep picking up tips like this and you might make it past 1100 someday.
>Rain is actually better
right, that's why torkoal's usage is 4x that of pelipper. because rain is just sooooo much better.
>sun is... le bad
I never said Sun is bad ESL-kun. You need to improve your reading comprehension.
>right, that's why torkoal's usage is 4x that of pelipper. because rain is just sooooo much better.
You say that as if Rain hasn't "fallen off" and then come back up to displace Sun 4 times in Gen 9 already. But I'm sure this time Rain is actually gone for sure.
god damn, you're a fricking moron. i don't know why i keep falling for the idea that anyone on /vp/ even remotely understands the game. my mistake, i guess.
have fun circlejerking over formats you clearly don't play or understand.
I accept your concession
>any offense team, regardless of how well-built it is, will have mons that can come in and pick up a KO
That's simply not true. Rain in Gen 8 was infamous for being hard to revenge kill due to Ferrothorn and Tornadus-T existing. Hell, offense in general in Gen 8 was pretty resilient. That's why Gen 8 has the longest games on average of any generation that isn't 2.
walking wake outspeeds and oneshots with hydro steam
Sure, if it gets the chance. If there are any hazards, it's a clean OHKO. The Great Tusk player can also easily switch to Primarina or Ogerpon-W.
You have a fricktillion grass-types with Chlorophyll that can be used with Protosynthesis mons. Namely, Lilligant.
>CHARIZARD used solar beam!
grass types can benefit from sun as it activates their numerous sun related abilities
and they can benefit from rain as it weakens fire moves; and they resist water anyways
besides what
said about how WW gets 2HKOed by landorus at home, there's also the questionable part water typing for a mon with an ability that synergizes with sun in yet another case of GF giving mons identity crises with abilities/stats/movepools/typings that don't synergize
>there's also the questionable part water typing for a mon with an ability that synergizes with sun
/vp/ homies once again proving they literally dont play the fricking game
Just quick ban it. I'm so sick of Matchup Moth. Kingambit, Raging Bolt, and Iron Valiant can go with it.
>stall killer
Didn't read but already know why they're banning it.
Miraidon is a stall killer too. Is Smogon wrong for banning it?
Yes. The only thing that should be banned is mythicals, IE how Based Freak does it.
It's a special attacker that can't even beat chansey, how is it a stall killer?
It actually does have sets that can beat Chansey. It used them in Gen 8 to great effect. Chansey and Blissey are shitmons now so it doesn't run those sets nearly as often as its standard set.
Volc loses to stall so much it's not even funny. Clodsire, bliss, dirge, even Dozo and clef all beat volc. On the other hand, volc is extremely annoying for offence as the right tera can almost always win if you aren't a moron
I've always been biased towards volc as in I hate it but with so many checks it sounds bad to ban it
How to fix Gen 9:
>Ban Volcarona
>Ban Kingambit
>Ban Iron Valiant
>Ban Roaring Moon
>Ban Gholdengo
>Ban Dragonite
>Reveal Tera types at the start of battle
No, you've just taken away the gen's identity. Rather than banning things, they should unban Palafin, Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao, Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Annihilape, Ursaluna, and Espathra.
Regieleki and Spectrier can stay banned since they're legendaries. Ubers should be for legendaries, not standard Pokemon.
>they should unban these legendaries
>but keep these legendaries banned
How to fix Gen 9:
>unban everything and let smogtards learn how to actually play the game
The higher the usage of Landorus-T, the healthier the meta
I hate showdown so much. It's so addicting, and for what? To go -100 ELO after like 2 hours?
how to fix gen 9:
>play doubles
Nothing ever gets banned.
Arch got banned a month ago you stall abusing pussy
Volcarona isn't getting banned, neither is anything else until Tera gets suspected.
How is it 1500+ elo players still don't seem to know how Purifying Salt works?