>Warhammer 40k
>popular
I don't get it, the game sucks. When I read the rules, I saw barebone shit without elementary rules (there are no rules for how the distance and size of the target affect accuracy, there are no rules for building fortifications, there are no rules for the vehicle movement through houses (tank that fights in melee combat with infantry in a house is just circus!), etc. The balance is also non-existent, the accuracy of many supposedly super soldiers is just a meme from the picture. How could this piece of crap become the biggest wargame on the market? Is this another "game from Bethesda" where the game itself is a dogshit and exists only for modders to make it work?
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>How could this piece of crap become the biggest wargame on the market?
Fluff mostly.
Also just entirely nostalgia wank, because people like to think of the "good ol' days" when 40k's rules were ok and not hot garbage like it is now.
So from then on it has just been momentum.
>>How could this piece of crap become the biggest wargame on the market?
30 IQ morons like you making a new 40k thread instead of using the 47 existing ones are doing their best to make sure everyone is talking about 40k constantly, forever.
>videogame analogies and opinions about a game you've never played
Wrong board
The only good post on /tg/ today
The fluff, the inertia, and more importantly the barrier to entry is practically non-existent (outside of the amount of money you'll have to put down before you start). If you want a great example of that last point try to persuade your friends to start playing Advanced Squad Leader.
Because that level of granularity isnt actually what most people want. People dont want to have to figure out which range band their models are in or which size class a land speeder is or whather that tactical rock affects it.
Simulationism and abstraction arent absolutes, theyre a spectrum, and 40k has managed to find a niche where it managed to provide enough options to keep more hardcore players engaged while being accessible to the mass market, hence the popularity.
Evangelism as well. There's a lot of people playing warhammer who want to get you into it. Most games I want to play I'd have to learn myself, get a tester game going, and try to convert people over to it. With warhammer you can just show up on an active night at any game store with tables and ask around, someone will run you through it.
>(there are no rules for how the distance and size of the target affect accuracy
This stuff isn't fun to do by hand in a mass battle game. What you want is a videogame. You're thinking of videogames.
You know what really would be good fodder for a pen and paper RPG? The nu-COM setting. Especially after the end of 2, when the Ethereals have lost, that's a great springboard for adventures. Points of light post-apocalyptic cyberpunk with ayylmaos, psychics, and gene modding.
There are a lot of legitimate things to complain about in any version of 40k's rules, but that's entirely moronic sperg shit. I hope you're just baiting rather than genuinely that fricking stupid.
>DUDE IM SO LE HECKIN COOL AND A REAL GAMER FOR REALS IM JUST TO SMART FOR D&D AND GAMES WORKSHOP DO I FIT IN YET MY FELLOW ELITE HIPSTERBROS?
do we really need this thread for the 10000th time? Seriously, do you trannies ever stop seething?
I honestly don't like how bellow 2000 points it's just luck of the dice. Kill team, now that is a good game.
Balance is pretty damn good right now moron. games an abstraction not a simulation, and best of all its fun and high level play requires you to actually engage your brain.
Tell me anons, what's your supposedly amazing game?
>Balance is pretty damn good right now
SM have Gurliman, another fraction have nothing. Balanced, sure.
>moron.
No you, GW fanboy.
>games an abstraction not a simulation
No shit, Sherlock. But Warhammer supposed to be a narrative base wargame, not an rts on the table. Not to mention that Warhammer is a really shity rts with broken mechanics that make no sense.
>SM have Gurliman, another fraction have nothing. Balanced, sure.
Tf is that even supposed to mean?
>https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Roboute_Guilliman
Ok moronic troll.
You mean a unit that isn't particularly good lol?
You can literally not use any named characters if you desire. You're just regurgitating memes at this point.
>rts
Its turn based you mongoloid.
I know that you are autistic and I should not be offended because you are organically unable to understand the feelings of normal people, so I will explain to you obvious - Warhammer 40k feels like a shitier version of Warcraft 3, the same emphasis on heroes that play an absolute role and are the core of the army, while the rest of the units are simply support and meat shield for heroes. Warhammer has nothing that resembles a wargame, nothing that resembles a tactical skirmish, all that Warhammer resembles is a pay to win android live service garbage like Lords Mobile.
primarchs aren't even good
Wut.
10th is a colossal clusterfrick of awful balance. Balance isn't in the same area code as 10th's dogshit "simplified" rules.
>Balance is pretty damn good right now moron
You have to be a lead paint snorting moron to think that.
If what you're doing is looking at the competitive win rates of every faction it does appear to be very balanced. The second you look at what army lists people are playing that illusion completely evaporates completely.
>looking at the competitive win rates
>see this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IodsN6Y6XnM
Ok moron.
Assuming you're not just another hipster or insectoid autist and you actually want an answer,
>Intertia. A wargame needs more than one player, people are more likely to buy something there's already a local scene for. 40k has a scene because it had a scene.
>Setting. A lot of people are into the fluff, model, and paint aspects, and to their credit a lot of GW kits give you a lot of space for customization. The wargame part is incidental.
>Rules weight. Being solidly rules-medium nets more people, simple as. Historicals already have simulationist gameplay on lock, and will ALWAYS be better at it because they're based on something real, instead of a silly galaxy full of aliens, sci-fi tech, and psychic powers.
Moreover, a few of the rules you note as missing do exist, but that's another point.
Your point on balance is also nonsense. You're taking the fluff as a balancing factor but also stating the fluff incorrectly. Yes, the spess marine supersoldier that's at least as much indoctrinated and ceremonial as practical, wielding weapons that are repeatedly noted to be bulky, imprecise, clunky, etc. can miss a shot. Imperial tech isn't supposed to be good, that's what the whole machine cult dogma thing's about.
The game's actual balance is okay at the moment, with the one outlier being the actual faction of supersoldiers that don't miss shots, the eldar.
Go see if there's some 60 year olds in your area playing napoleonics, sounds more your speed.
For some reason, gw still
The game they made was fine. But they insisted on raising the model count, and every time they raised the model count, they realised they had to "streamline", and every time they did that, they stripped away the parts of the game that made it fun in the first place. So what you have now is a facsimile of a facsimile of a facsimile of something that was actually fairly good back in the day, but is now running almost solely on inertia and nostalgia.
>there are no rules for how the distance and size of the target affect accuracy, there are no rules for building fortifications, there are no rules for the vehicle movement through houses (tank that fights in melee combat with infantry in a house is just circus!
So your complaints is the lack of grog shit that noone likes but the 55y.o. blood bowl fans.
40k has a tonn of problems, and is a shitty fricking game, but tables for tables and more gimmick bullshit isnt something it needs. Next thing you are gonna start advocating for fricking templates
It's like elementary rules that every human being understand subconscious. TF wrong with you, low IQ autism?
It sucks but the models are cool.
The lore and rules are a joke.
So make up your own lore and use different rules.
It's not a wargame. It's a list building game tailored towards encouraging autists to buy incredibly expensive toy soldiers. It's why the lists are constantly changing, to boost sales of the latest figure and remove the use of OOP models.
So in other words it's a typical live service pay to win garbage. Got it.
People unironically complain that 40k is too complicated and shill even more simplistic rulesets like one page rules and grimdark future. Actual grown adult men, who think 10th edition 40k is too complicated, both in terms of gameplay and in terms of army list building not only really exist, but are common and vocal about it, let that sink in.
Warhammer is simple but obscenely bloated and slow and you can reduce the game to a couple pages and still have the exact same beer and pretzels experience.
And right on cue here is one.
Also the multiple special rules just Pokemonise the game. OPR is unironically more tactical
>shill even more simplistic rulesets like one page rules and grimdark future
same thing, grimdark future is the OPR 40k alternative
you struggling to think of examples or something?
you destroyed him with reason and logic
Yes, you just throw out part of the special rules, and the other part you make normal actions available to everyone. And if the unit should be special, then this is shown by its stats. Also you can simplify the hit/wound system - to hit is BS of the unit that guarantees a hit in a certain radius plus Xd6, where X is the number of dice available for the weapon, every point is add inch to the result, have enough distance = hit. At the same time, the distance will be taken into account without any additional rules. To injure, you can simply do weapon/unit strength+d6=the result must higher the target's toughness. If strength higher than the target's toughness without roll it's an autowound. And if strength+d6 is lower the target's toughness, that's it, inflicting a wound is not possible. Here, the problem is solved.
You're fundamentally misinterpreting peoples complaints about 40k's complexity. People don't complain that it's too complex because it's hard to understand or wrap their brain around, they're complaining that most of the complexity in the system is useless bloat that adds neither flavor or strategic depth to the game in any meaningful capacity. It's complexity for its own sake, admired only by midwits who are too stupid to realize that more mechanical density does not automatically equate do a deeper game experience.
But of course, as someone willing to defend 40k you've already proven yourself that exact sort of midwit that makes up the bulk of 40k's playerbase.
When someone expresses vague complaints about the breadth of the rules and points to a game system with even less mechanical detail as a preferable alternative what they're expressing to games workshop is that they should just delete as many rules as possible because complaints like that which aren't about specific systems will read as "it's too hard" to games workshop. As long as people are doing this 40k is going to get progressively more moronic and GW will think that they're giving you what you asked for.
moronic apologism
GW are morons themselves, they are not able to correctly interpret statistics and do not understand in which industry they work.
THE EMPEROR IS THE MOST POWERFUL BEING IN ANY SETTING
The idea that good games are meant to be simulations of reality is the post persistent misconception on this site.
Try 6th or 7th edition, vehicles made more sense, buildings had rules
It used to be better until James started to pander to kids and pissy manbabies more
The lore also pulls people in
They market it pretty good with vidya
>here are no rules for how the distance and size of the target affect accuracy, there are no rules for building fortifications, there are no rules for the vehicle movement through houses
holy frick who cares
I'm not saying warhammer is a good game, but it is a GAME and not a fricking simulation you tremendous twerp
>if the game has elementary logic, then it is a simulator
So, the target audience of Warhammer today are people so stupid that they are not able to live a normal life and therefore they are looking for an absolute escape from reality in a world where there is absolutely no logic. Makes sense, from the same audience gacha games make insane profits.
>(there are no rules for how the distance and size of the target affect accuracy, there are no rules for building fortifications, there are no rules for the vehicle movement through houses (tank that fights in melee combat with infantry in a house is just circus!), etc.
Every one of these rules featured in previois editions of the game, and every one was ogranically dropped and the game kept selling.
The answer is that GW is here to make profit, and none of what you mentioned is necessary for profit.
On a slightly less cynical note, 95% of the rules are actually in a faction's Codex, not the core rules. The modern attitude seems to be not "what can someone do in this ruleset" but rather "what can *my guys* do in this ruleset?"
I don't think that the problem with the rules, overpriced miniatures, the neglect of everything that isn't SM and the Horus Heresy is the main reason for the loss of popularity of the game. Rules that make sense to a new person are simply necessary for adaptation, I don't think that the current rules are made to attract many new people, rather to milk the existing fanatics.
OP here, I read previous editions. I want to say that I like the old rules much more than the current version, but there are three glaring problems that are solved in the current version:
1. The rules explanation are too autistic, instead of simply saying that first movement, then shooting, then charge we have a 10-step instruction with examples of special rules for each phase. It's just dumb autism and nothing useful.
2. Too many special rules, especially for named characters who could have more than a dozen rules, remembering all of them is just a nightmare.
3. Probably the biggest problem of all is the organization of the codex, the appendix are simply not catherized, good luck finding first time on which page the description of the special rule is located, in this regard, the 10th edition is really a step forward when everything you need to know is in the unit's profile and you don't need to search appendix for 5 minutes plus there are much less special rule, so there is much less discomfort with tracking them. The conclusion is that it is best to return the old rules, but with the description and organization of the 10th edition.