MK4 is supposed to have this enforced theme list but I think you have base units for each army anyway so how the hell do I know what to buy in preparation for the new edition?
I liked Menoth but they are dead apparently so I will get Cygnar. I have no clue which models or characters will be around. Theres a terrible style of communication going on.
I keep hearing that you can pick up Warmachine models at bargain bin prices but I have no idea where. NobleKnight and Ebay charge pretty big prices for the models.
All old models are being squatted, all of them.
Menoth will get models eventually, probably next year. The wait is annoying though.
No they're not. A bunch are for full factions but basically nothing for the limited factions like Convergence.
>Menoth will get models eventually, probably next year. The wait is annoying though.
Release schedule through 2023 is already locked and Menoth isn't in it, so 2024 at the earliest. But lorewise the nation doesn't even exist anymore post-timeskip, so don't hold your breath.
Menoth 100% exists. On paper. If anyone tried to frick with them they'd find nothing but a few terrified priests hiding behind some carboard cutouts of warjacks but they are still in the game. They're just going to be radically transformed by the time they get their new lists.
>No they're not. A bunch are for full factions but basically nothing for the limited factions like Convergence.
NTA, but don't be such a stooge. they're providing a "legacy format" to port over existing players, but they're not going to expand or sell the old factions anymore. which means in a year or two once a sufficient number of people have bought in to "new" warmachine, they'll toss the entire legacy thing out with the bathwater. if you can't see that, you're either young, stupid, or both.
I am confuse. PP needs better PR guys
I think a lot of it can be explained by this being Ganker and people lying constantly. I'd say go check on your own and see what's being said.
Nah, PP's messaging is very convoluted.
In the end, there are going to be select models kept and being moved forward for Prime Armies. Rhul will be getting a prime army for example, as mentioned in the last prime cast.
They have stated that old stuff will likely be weak...but at the same time the actual rules posted for orgoth don't seem all that strong compared to the storm legion stuff, so PP still doesn't know balance enough to be relied on for a comment like that.
All factions current models are being squatted for new models. There will be legacy rules for all pre existing armies but they won’t be eligible past legacy.
this
they are being relegated to a "legacy format". all of the old models will only be able to be played in that legacy format, which from the sounds of it is going to be a format that does not get official support in tournaments or any updates going forward, and they fully intend for everyone to have to buy the new army boxes to be able to play.
It'd be a lot less annoying if the new models weren't just the old models but different. Storm Division squatted, now it's Storm Legion who are EXACTLY THE SAME THEMATICALLY.
How does this resemble warmachine again?
Those are basically all the same as current Cygnar minis.
The artstyle has gone to pauldroncore, unfortunately. But after huge-base warjacks, that feels like a lesser problem.
>The artstyle has gone to pauldroncore
Anon, it was pauldroncore from day 1. Had you even looked at this game before today?
>tfw Warmachine predates WoW
>they got their pauldroncore from the original Warcraft games
Pauldroncore is more than big pauldrons. It's a Warcraft/comic book-like artstyle. Warmachine used to draw its aesthetics from WWI, pirates, and dark fantasy *before* mixing in the silly proportions, but those sources have since run dry (and Grymkin haven't fricking helped).
>paulldroncore is more than big pauldrons
It's literally in the name, you're just making shit up
Yeah, it would be really fricked up if Warmachine had a bunch of dudes with huge pauldrons, chunky armor, goofy swords, and flashy magical effects. It'd be extra double silly if there was a whole faction called like Cygnar or some shit where that was really common. Good thing that never happened and Khador had nothing but practical armor and realistic proportions.
The 'enforced theme list' thing is knee-jerk reaction to the fact that the new armies are going to be designed as contained lists, separate from the other non-cadre armies. The old lists will probably be more free-form than the new armies.
Literally nothing currently in production will be legal for the new versions of the factions.
Old models will still be playable in "Old Cygnar" which is mechanically a completely unrelated faction to "New Cygnar" which will have all the new models. Legacy lists will be legal at the start, but don't expect that to stay for very long.
Short answer: Do not buy anything yet.
>Short answer: Do not buy anything yet.
Or at all then. I like some of these models.
They are perfectly good
Can someone tell me what's the source of these pics? Are they the new models for real?
This looks like something I'd cook up for fun on my cheapass Halot and it would cost me like 3 bucks so who cares about the lines. Not paying who knows how much for that.
$45 USD.
That markup is GW tier, wow. Even if I screwed up a couple times I'd be at 5 bucks most in resin costs.
worse than gw. 10 infantry is £45-55
>That markup is GW tier
Always has been, PPs price per miniature is usually higher than GWs (which is "compensated for" by smaller average army size).
Going to preface this by saying I'm not defending the price, but I fricking hate the argument people are making about the cost of the material only when talking about it. I don't know the rest of the overhead, so I can't comment too much about the value of the product, but that's the thing, material isn't the only overhead.
No its a valid argument when the material cost is like 10% of your retail price, there's no way for 3D printed models that you have such a huge overhead for running printers. Even with labor costs and shipping and marketing and everything you can't justify that cost as fair when there are plenty of model making companies which have more sane prices and even 3D print, at also much higher quality than these test models we've seen.
GW's material cost is like 2% of the retail price, stop whining.
GW Spends more on their box than the minis and they are a much larger producer, you thought this was a gotcha but its not.
The people complaining about it are typically people who own their own 3D printers, so it's literally something they could make at home in the same quality with the file.
They're using the second cheapest option for startup cost, and THE cheapest option as far as employee overhead is concerned. There is no way in hell they can make that markup logical for THAT quality without deliberately wasting LARGE amounts of money on trivial bullshit
its worse than GW by a fair bit, and frankly has been for a while. for probably 5 or 6 years now a box of 10 infantry will set you back $80 usd in warmachine, where a comperable box in 40k is between $35-60 depending on the unit. PP models also come with ZERO customization or extra bits while GW kits at least come with some options most of the time. and the fact that they are going to try to charge this price for 3D printed mini's i could make at home for 3 cents a model is fricking insane.
PP's only driving force behind their success was that they were the cheaper game, so people could easily start a decent sized force for a fraction of what it took to play warhammer. now its more expensive per model, and comperable for the cost of an army, while also having a severely depleted gaming scene and support for the system. PP is so out of touch with the reality of their brand that its laughable at this point, and i say this as someone who stan'd for PP for like 15 years. some of the best wargaming i ever had was in MK1 and early MK2, but this company has become a parody of itself
It's even worse if you look at their PR release for why them using 3D printing instead of more traditional manufacturing methods is totally a good thing. They fail to give a SINGLE advantage that's exclusive to 3D printing that's actually worthwhile (And even then I'm pretty sure the only fricking advantage they give is that they can print an entire torso of a model AND have it be hollow. Which isn't impressive at all since you can just cast something in two parts and use clever design to hide most/all of the join lines in places where there would be join lines on your fricking robot model) and also proceed to brag about how 3D printing entirely eliminates the concept of overhang, and then go on to talk about models needing support structures, which are a direct consequence of overhang in the same fricking sentence. They also don't even attempt to address the fact 3D printing a model goes at a speed that can generously be described as "Glacial" and that higher quality directly correlates to increased print times. Though I guess their solution to that problem is to just have absolute dogshit print quality and market it as ultra premium
i mean, its tricky. so i actually was developing a miniatures game a while back and i got a quote on costs to produce miniatures, and for a plastic injection mold for a single kit the quote was around $20k USD for the mold, and then something like 6-10 cents per press and you had to order presses in batches of several thousand, i think it was minimum 3000 presses.
for that cost, assuming PP was going with market standard home printers, you could get a farm of 40-80 printers depending on the model, though the resin to actually make the minis would cost more than the mold pressings, you would thereafter save cost on additional molds since you would never need to shell out for another mold every time you need to make a new kit. so where PP might need 100 molds to make all their different kits, those same 40 printers could handle any kit you could throw at them.
to many unknowns to really math it out in any concrete way without seeing their numbers, but i could see how it could end up being cheaper on their end, to say nothing of the storage space saved since you could print roughly as many as you need rather than having to bulk order kits by the thousands that may never sell
but if they're going to print, they absolutely should not be charging this much, as they will be competing with home printers who can print for pennies and the machines only cost a few hundred. you can literally get a mars 3 on sale for the same price as a single new MK4 army box
While 3D printers CAN do all the stuff you said, they also take longer than even resin casting to do. Resin casting being a sorta halfway between 3D printing and Injection molding, you need to make molds for each model, but the molds cost fricking nothing. You also gotta remember that PP isn't just some tiny no-name company (Even though they have degenerated to that status in the last 5 years) they're an INTERNATIONAL BRAND with big plans for selling their 3D printed garbage worldwide. How the frick do they plan on making enough supply for the US market with such a slow method, let alone the rest of the world? They're also flat out not utilizing the capabilities of a 3D printer, they can make any number of things and they're just going to print the same 20 kits with an average of 2 customization options each. I've said it before and I'll say it again, This entire experiment with 3D printing just reeks of them being run by people who have literally no idea what they're doing and hope a flashy gimmick (From 10 years ago) will make up for actual quality
slow is a relative term for 3D printing, dependent entirely on how many printers you have on your farm. remember, i said it was around 40-80 printers for the cost of 1 injection mold tooled. but that doesnt mean PP is only working with 8 printers. they could have a factory floor of 800. with printers its a very linear scale up of the more you have, the more you can print, and barring repairs or failures, they produce at a very steady rate and dont need constant attention either, you can set up a printer, and then just walk away, and a company thats even slightly tech savy can manage the output of printer farms remotely.
whatever the case, the math and tech were good enough in PP's favor for them to do the calculus and reach the conclusion that it was the best and most financially viable method for them. time will tell if that ends up being true
You see, you're assuming that PP actually fricking has people that do the math and stuff on this, when they clearly fricking don't. It's public knowledge that the company has gone through a massive brain drain over the past few years. And while you CAN just set up a printer and walk away, that's not a very good idea when you got tens or even hundreds of the damn things, and automation goes both ways too.
Let me put it this way, there's a very fricking good reason that NO ONE sells 3D printed stuff on store shelves. And Privateer Press, a company that has been circling bankruptcy for about half a fricking decade due to massive incompetence by the higher ups that are still fricking in charge is probably not going to be the company to break the trend.
I'll dig up the link, but they are from someone at GenCon that picked up the models they had brought to sell.
Gencon hasn't started yet, it's this weekend
Yeah, didn't know it was a play tester.
These are free early tester copies without QA testing sent to very limited party of people as a thank you, so far two people got a botched copy. PP said that cases like these they allow the models to be re-sent.
Apparently PP talked more about it on discord, but I don't understand why make the explanation so hard to find for a random person who's more likely to see the image and not the context. And frankly it's fricking moronic that they didn't just send properly tested copies given how bad of a PR this is. PP only knows how to shoot its own feet.
As far as actual model quality... they are going to be showing you directly what the final release will look like at GenCon before you commit to buying the product, curious what it'll look like.
>These are free early tester copies without QA testing
There's nothing that confirms this, the people who received the models early received letters saying these were they the exact same models to be sold at Gencon and they were sent as a thank you, not for testing.
Even if they were "test" models, that does not bode well with both the resin quality, the layer lines being able to be seen from space and the supports not being removed properly.
Like I said, they talked about this in discord and was confirmed by the people posting pictures. Which I also said is moronic of them to leave the explanation to discord while the images are going around everywhere and people are already lukewarm at best towards MKIV and 3D prints.
Oh and I find this funny
>OG comment:
>sent to very limited party of people as a thank you
>Reply:
>and they were sent as a thank you, not for testing.
They're from a playtester that got a freebie from the company on top of his payment.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPYl1ZHN8vCZ0dIpMXpw99x2ugOUx-wMBob_Jo99tLChC4snoNn_2sRTe8qCWo9AA/photo/AF1QipMJdEYtkSuJHBqyGEnpPPsUy03bqeiYt_xIgblO?key=NnNtTFQwM2s4dlQwbWNiZXkwa1lGSDBoSHMwZjVR
Didn't realize it was a playtester. I skipped the letter pic he posted in the beginning.
https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/08/01/mkiv-core-army-starter-previews/
>all models are 3d printed
>$200
This can't be real, right? $10+ per 3D printed mini? And they're squatting old factions so people can't play with their existing models? It's like trying to sell MtG singles for Standard, buy you have to draw your own artwork for each card, which are printed on notecards from OfficeMax.
This isn't happening. No way someone with the capability of owning a company is this stupid. Surely this is some kind of elaborate prank? A type of meta performance art? Like why would I buy 3D printed models for $200 when I could just buy a 3D printer for that much?
>No way someone with the capability of owning a company is this stupid.
This your first Privateer Press thread, son?
I'm just at a loss for words lmfao. They've done some stupid shit, but you'd think they can't get dumber, right?
i wonder if they've refined the process since then, because as someone who actually prints, these guys dont know what the frick they're doing. they're either printing at >0.05mm resolution or they have terrible model orientation or both. no reason you should get those rings that visible unless you are bad at printing.
and given how much these fricks are gonna be charging for their printed mini's they damn well better be the best printed minis anyones ever printed
And here I thought I was joking when I said Matt Wilson was dumb enough to try and do this shit with a basement full of the cheapest resin printers he could find on Alibaba.
So I just read the rules update article. They really did get rid of everything people liked about this game didn't they?
They literally pulled an age of sigmar lol. One problem though, only GW has paypiggies moronic enough to slop up age of shitmar
age of sigmar didnt legacy the entirety of everyones armies. only a few like tomb kings and bretonnians, everybody else carried over into new battletomes.
what PP doing is far worse
Early aos did but then they brought it back after the backlash.
Never happened. Really early AoS gave rules (but no points) for every model that was available, as well as some OOP ones, then they started cutting various models, which tended to be a combination of redundant stuff, Named characters, and models that were no longer being produced. And Also Throgg since apparently his mold just fricking broke
Warmachine sucks
Lovely
how the frick are they justifying selling this shit at $75? who the frick would buy this?
That caster/solo looks like he could pass as a chaos champion lmao.
I remember when those starter boxes were $40. For good quality metal minis instead of 3D printed shit that you have to try and sand the print lines off of if you want them to not look like ass.
contrarian 40kpigs
Laugh in China recaster.
Here's your buyers guide:
>Pick up old models you think look cool on the cheap.
>The game flops because privateer press is just repeating the Mk 3 debacle all over again.
>Now you have cheap cool models to use for whatever.
I recommend Frost Grave or another miniature agnostic game.
Awesome anon. I have the same name as that model
Imagine your parents naming you Ironclad.
I wish I could have hope but tbh I think mkiv is going to be a huge fricking disaster
They are going full AoS with it but given Privateer's recent track record I just do not think that people, myself a vet since mk2 are going to rush out and buy these $200 new armies en masse. Just adapt your old shit and then add new stuff why is this so hard.
Warcaster fricking tanked out the door, monpoc is dead af who do these clowns think they are
Has there ever been a Kickstarted wargame that has succeeded? Like Kickstarter /tg/ games are pretty common and many do well, but war games need store presence to survive and Kickstarted ones never touch a store for the most part.
Dropfleet Commander is doing pretty well, but that's more like a kickstarted side project for the already successful Dropzone Commander.
I think your question is 'Has a kickstarter been able to generate a stable, lasting national or international tournament meta'. And the answer to that question is no. At the same time basically the *only* tabletop tournament scenes that are both remotely stable with large coverage are 40k, MTG, and Pokemon. Everything else is generally localized, very hit or miss depending on whether or not both a store owner and community organizer are in sync to get products and events happening in a location. I've seen metas fail to materialize despite hardcore organizers because product wasn't easily available, and I've seen store sales go nowhere because there wasn't a decent event organizer. These things just don't pop up everywhere for any game.
WMH has lasted quite a while but its event availability has become really spotty, just like Yugioh and heroclix or any number of TCGs, LCGs, mini games, etc that had waves of popularity. XWing and Legion have had giant success but they're almost destined for retirement just like every star wars based game, same thing for any GW game that isn't 40k. A local enthusiast can easily get together events for any of these, and they do so for Kickstarter games when said kickstarter games have actual product that their local stores can sell. Otherwise it's constrained to being a garage/hobby room game.
ASOIAF is the only one I can think of, which is ironic given that it's published by CMON, the kings of pump and dump.
MonPoc ain't dead.
It got converted into a frick-huge boardgame and the hobby line is still selling models.
Mythic having issues might just end up causing problems though.
Materials and shipping cost went high, so we decided to turn into 3D printing... our models then selling them to you, which includes material and shipping costs.