>Skirmish game with low barrier to entry
>Fast paced rules allowing for quick and fluid games
>Different means to deal with opponents instead of being forced to purchase hard counters
>Successful in a time when GW was shitting the bed
There will never be a non-GW game that comes close to threatening 40k’s place at the top of the dirt hill that is table-top warming.
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 Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
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They didn’t have a legion of funko pop tier brand cultists to keep them afloat when they dive bombed their game and setting
>Implying it won’t get funkopops before it has actual product inventory
>Warmaprostitutes
Dirty
i thought Privateer Press nuked all the good will they had built and then fricked off
They tried to come back but failed as they can’t figure out how to work a resin printer
I wouldn't say they failed, at least not yet. Signs point to them growing, not failing.
t. moron
At its peak, PP had like 150 employees. It currently has <10. It's completely dead, only holding on to run Ponzi Scheme Kickstarters as long as it can.
Cope all you want, PP had their chance in the sun and flubbed it.
Nah new models are very good. They dialed in the resin and it’s taken care of the issues from the initial box.
They are also pretty good out replacing stuff. I told them straight up to send me new resin versions of the gen 1 shit I bought and they did. I thought it was a solid move.
first part yes, second part no. they did not frick off. they stuck around and kept finding new ways to piss off their former customers over and over.
They basically started making GW-tier mistakes, without having three decades' worth of Pavlovian control over their fan base to absorb the damage caused by such mistakes.
They're probably not 'dying' any time soon, but them ever getting as big as they once were is a pipe dream.
True. Privateer Press was just the last in a long line of pretenders to the throne.
>All these companies at least 5+ years to take down GW at their worst
>Were very close
>Each company does some major frick up and were no better than GW
>8th edition happens
>GW is back on top
>The old world is back and now all other rank n flank fantasy games are dead
we will never kill GW
>8th edition happens
>GW is back on top
If I remember the chronology of events right, PP was at their strongest shortly after Age of Sigmar hit by the power of absorbing disgruntled WHF players.
>Cant go one thread without coping about AoS
Age of Sigmar happening and 7th edition basically ending 40k as being on top was the perfect time to strike but now they cant.
GW Slop heads always go back to GW those disgruntled Fantasy players all came crawling back
Ah, you were talking 7th/8th ed 40k, I was thinking of 8th ed WHF (the one just before AoS). Yeah, 40k seems to be doing alright.
But you shouldn't generalize about everyone coming back to GW I know of several players that after being betrayed by both GW and PP (with 3rd edition WMH) in relatively short succession just quit wargaming altogether.
>I was thinking of 8th ed WHF
Fantasy is simply irrelevant for anything tho, when people say "compete with gw" they mean "compete with 40k"
>Were very close
They weren't. I'm pretty sure the difference was always an order of magnitude at least.
Might as well be more constructive.
Anyone playing mk4? Enjoying it?
We've got a small group playing games and everyone loves it. The rules are definitely different enough, but the game feels good. I think PP is weirdly going in the right direction, which is something I never thought I'd ever say again.
The AoSing of the old armies makes sense because they've shifted production to printing instead of casting and the way buying into the game works now is remarkably smart. With that in mind, mkiv is definitely meant to be played with new stuff. They're accommodating the older stuff, but the game moving forward is about the updated models and factions. I agree that I don't want to trust PP anymore, but I'm enjoying playing with my old CoC stuff enough that I'm considering buying a mkiv army when the new Cryx comes out. Maybe I'll buy Dusk instead.
>With that in mind, mkiv is definitely meant to be played with new stuff
I dunno. I get it mechanically, but some of the legacy armies are extremely powerful, so there's no real element of power creep that seems to be going on. But happy to hear that things are going well, I do think mk4 is a much better game rules wise, and the only hiccups are getting over how much it changed.
>the only hiccups are getting over how much it changed.
This is true for most game changes I think, thigh there were definitely some massive changes going into mkiv, especially movement. I'm genuinely curious to see what happens. I really don't have faith in the company, but it does seem to have taken a pretty positive turn.
It's kind of fricked, honestly, as bad as PP can be, they still write an incredible ruleset, and from a rules perspective, every edition has been flat better than the previous. It's just all the other shit that's usually fricked.
Luv the Iron kingdoms, 'ate Privateer press, simple as.
Same here, I cry myself to sleep most nights clutching my Eiryss pillow tight
Lucky bastard, P3s are the best paints I've ever used and no-one has them by me anymore
Still adore the setting and my models (CoC and Skorne).
But I'll never trust PP again and someone needs to grab Jason Soles by his stupid haircut and crack him like a whip.
This, I love Everblight and the pigs but man the fricking company sucks.
The best part of warmahordes dying was that I could get all my favourite Skorne minis for a painting project on the cheap. Everyone cant get rid of them fast enough.
God I love my tortured elephant babies.
Less on the wargame side and more on the RPG side, anyone know much about the 5e books? I was surprised at how active it seems to be, they do the KSs and all, but they also put out a splatbook every month for it, which is quite a lot of content.
Anyone taken a look at them? They worth the price tag?
Shame they fricked it all up. Last time I saw people playing it at my LGS in like 2018 and it looked pretty dire; the average model count seemed to have grown to a comparable size to 40k and I always remember overhearing people arguing over stupid angle-shooting shit.
Well, one of the biggest changes in mk4 was cutting model count by more than half.
In addition to killing all the free points armies got, they actually straight up cut unit sizes in half.
> stupid angle shooting
That's literally all warmaprostitutes is tho
there was also charging your own guys for extra movement and various terrain-related shenanigans
They were a decent company at the apex of mk2 but mk3 and how they handled it was such a fricking disaster it makes End Times into Age of Sigmar look quaint.
Never seen a company torpedo themselves so fricking hard before.
Even in the 'good days' it was also hyper competitive focused and even the casual games at my LGS just had tryhards all the time.
Mk2 was amazing. Sure it has issues, but still was great.
Mk3 shit the bed and most players left.
Mk4 killed most of the factions and gutted the rest.
God I miss peak mk2 before tier lists got you stupid free points, yea the game could get sweaty competitive but like all high skill games if you put in enough reps you could dark horse the meta and trash all the netlisters who didn't really understand what they were playing. God I miss my eVlad and eSevvy lists.
>dark horse the meta
I have great memories of doing well with pButcher in a local infantry-heavy meta tournament and also regularly crushing a guy who would only bring whatever netlist was trending in the forums by just thinking of a list during my lunch break to use Strakov.
This. Playing small MK2 games with my mates was the most fun I've ever had wargaming. Loved the setting, loved the game mechanics and loved the old models.
3rding this, I loved the shit out of Mk2, my Cryx were fun. I usedto enjoy getting my Seether to grab enemy models and throw them at things, usually other enemy models.
Mk3 nerfed my faction into the dirt, because tournament tryhards whined, and took all the cool stuff away.
I haven't even looked at Mk4. Still got my Cryx, still add to them on occasion. Mostly use them in other games now.
>tfw never got to get the plastic seether
>stuck with kinda dopey metal one
It's not fair
>Fire all the autistic Press Gangers who shout the game's praises from the mountain and bring in tons of new players
>Get greedy and send your molds to a sketchy Chinese company to save money, based Chinese steal the molds and start making kids toys out of them
>Start 3D printing models, don't calibrate them to hide the print lines, mail out dangerous uncured resin to your few remaining customers
Did Privateer Press have a saboteur in their office taking bribes from GW?
I mean, I think all of those are incorrect.
They fired the PGs for the whole Magic Judge bit, and while in retrospect it was a really bad decision, it's entirely logical why they did so. It sucks bad, but if they hadn't there was a real chance they'd immediately have gone bankrupt.
They didn't send their molds to China to be cheap, they tried to get their new stuff made in a higher quality plastic instead of the absolute shit they'd be using before. Their old plastic was absolute ass.
The bit about uncured resin is also a lie. People started spreading that lie, but no ones ever proven it. Yes, the prints was absolute shit, but there was no uncured resin(and if there had been, PP could have been sued quite heavily).
Not the other guy and I haven't bought any of the newer stuff and probably won't but you are right in that the old plastic was garbage. I bought one of the first plastic Convergence starters and it was so bad it put me off the company for years. That said I've personally gotten uncured (or at least badly cured) resin from them, but it was a cast Monsterpocalypse model rather than one of the newer 3DPs.
Monsterpocalypse always seemed like a lame children’s game to me
It was the best thing PP ever made and the moronic owner killed it because he was jealous it was so successful.
That’s not what happened. Matt has an obsession with selling IP for movies. He did that for monsterpocalypse right around the same time pacific rim came out.
The issue was that they somehow sold the rights to produce toys that are based on the movie. So essentially they sold the right to old school monpoc by accident.
>So essentially they sold the right to old school monpoc by accident.
Lmao.
This all just feels like "Halo killer" stuff. You don't kill the guy leading the pack, especially by doing what they're already doing. You mostly have to wait for them to die or kill themselves. It's pretty uncommon for one thing to cater to the current demands of the market forever.
I really like Warcaster: Neo Mechanika.
I would love if there was some kind of Wartable-type module to play it online with people. Really don't have the time to do it in person anymore.
the game is cracked, the game company is asscrack
IT really seems like a streamlined warmhordes, but I legit never seen anyone playing it.
Giant robots remain pretty cool, and Warmachine was always one of the most interesting ways they were portrayed.
Legion of Everblight remain some of my favorite monsters in wargaming. The Angelus is cool as frick.
are there any secondary media with this ip.
om aware of the vidya. but what about comics or tv shows?
and webtoons or anything?
even a show about a gaming store /kids that get together to play warmachine?
i knew 40k was mainstream when wheaton talked about painting his army while on set, and that one nerd rapper mention dreadnaughts in a song.
Besides this short
not much.
There was a book. In Thunder Forged by Ari Marmell. It was ok-ish. The book had a subtitle The Fall of Llael: Book One.
Book Two was announced at the same time as the first one and was to release like few months after it. Pretty sure it was cancelled for unknown reasons.
There was some more stories released here and there like Iron Kingdoms Excursions or Black River Irregulars.
As for the video game...
It was announced as an action game.
but it never went anywhere. Instead they went to Kickstarter, got Warmachine Tactics funded and reused assets from the original project.
There's a bunch of books, but beyond that only what the other anon said.
There's also a whole bunch of RPG materials, spanning 3.0/3.5/5e, alongside a 2d6 system that's built to mirror the wargame. A huge chunk of the lore is locked up in the RPG, actually.
And they had a magazine that ran for a while, No Quarter.
>There will never be a non-GW game that comes close to threatening 40k’s place at the top of the dirt hill that is table-top warming.
I don't understand why idiots and morons claim Warmahordes were any kind of threat to GW. Maybe it's just UStards thinking the rest of the planet is just a carbon copy of their local market but Warmachine and Hordes were just yet another niche alternative games even in Europe.
they should have just made a blizzard warcraft starcraft tabletop miniatures game.
their corporate hqs are like right next to each other.
>local LGS had warhammer stuff in 2018 but only has warmahordes shit now
>have to drive 20 minutes which turns into a 1+ hour exodus just to get some frickin paints because they don't even have army painter or whatever for some reason
Anyone tried the newish game, warcaster? IT seemed to go strong until it puttered and I haven't heard a think for a year.
pump and dump kickstarter scheme to fund mk3
I've heard it's really good, and plays like an RTS. But it hit right at COVID, so it never got a chance to grow.
I feel shameful for having bought it, but the game legitimately looks really good.
The system seemed like a more fun and fast Warmhordes, like it ticked a lot of the fun bits, but as I never even see anyone playing it I only have my mental image of how it would play and a few vids, anyone than has played it can say if it would be a good base for a kind of summons/beast control game?
Reskinning it as a Planeswalker-MtG style game would be a fun idea. I know Hungerford was trying that with Rivenstone, but that turned out to be a scam. As much as people screech about PP's KS being scams, at least they actually deliver product.
More or less my idea, a kind of frostgrave but without being as swingy with the d20.
Less static armies are kind of my thing, noice.
Things move really fricking far because of the way units work now. There’s also a funny effect from the bases being mm that the threat ranges aren’t a static set of inches.
That’s honestly good because people measuring out your armies entire threat range and placing everything .1 inches away is fricking gay.
Probably the biggest problem with mk3+ is premeasuring incentivizes being standoffish. Scenarios don’t do enough to force smaller engagements versus the benefit of a big alpha.
Mk2 you had to learn to estimate. It was difficult to pick up but definitely discouraged the whole measure out the whole table and do nothing for 2 turns style that mk3 had a lot of.
>Scenarios don’t do enough to force smaller engagements versus the benefit of a big alpha.
No longer true. They shifted scenario hard in mk4, and SR24 forces you both to spread out hard and actually engage or else you just lose.
If your opponent does that "I just sat .1mm outside of your threat range" they often simply lose now.
>BALLS OF STEEL
>its not going to be an "endtimes" scenario
>it was exactly like endtimes
no wonder PP lost all customer's trust
I think of IK exactly like I do Star Wars, ie. with an arbitrary endpoint where I replace all new lore with my own headcanon. For Iron Kingdoms, it's just after the first round of gargossals are unleashed.
I legit miss Mk II so bad. My local game store has a bunch of old models from back then, I don't think they're visible marked off, but I'm gonna try to talk him into giving them to me.
>Oh you're up 50 points and it's the last turn?
>Let me just pop my ult and kill a single model to win the game.
Let me just use Siege's Foxhole to get rid of that screening unit you had and have two loaded defenders take shots on your caster. Oh whoops GG
Yes, this is one of the better parts of the game. Adding an instant win mechanic in killing the enemy caster means that no matter how far ahead you are, your opponent still has a chance to bring it back, and you have to be very careful in how and when you commit your caster.
Literally why it’s the best. You are always in it and the army has a coherent center.
having every model be independent encourages weird bullshit like 40k skew lists. Nothing actually demands synergy so just go hard toward whatever is the most broke that month.
Matt got a new kickstarter to shill to avoid chapter 11 for another year?
Is there an all-encompassing explanation of everything that's wrong with Warmachine? I'd be in the market for a 3 hour youtube video of some autist complaining about a game I don't play right now.
Varies from edition, to edition, but generally as you have seen many anons say - its not the rules of the game, its the company. They lost a lot of people when they moved to these thematic lists that grew the scale of the game and created a lot of minis bloat which also hurt distribution. There are other little frick ups and stuff people on Ganker mention a lot, but that seems to be what killed the game. Combo of pissing off certain folks by doing a rules change that added cost and minis to the game, coupled with them having too much stuff for stores to carry and pushing product that would not move. (they also copied G.W in ways that worked for G.W were not good for them like adding frick huge minis and the like). They also always had issues getting stock to Europe and finding European stockists which also hurt them. But I am sure some other anon can point rules issues to you that exist in different editions.
Yeah theme lists became mandatory by giving either lots of free models or by adding game breaking special rule advantages. Then they became actually mandatory. Although this is partly a matter of taste because before theme lists enforcement you would get armies where only 2-3 models were of the stated army and the rest were mercs. People didn't like that much either.
But it was a wonderfully autistic game there were like 300 page discussions about black penny kek
Sort of a 'death by a thousand cuts' situation. I used to hate PP, but now I don't believe they ever did anything that bad. I'd say their biggest sin was never fully committing to any decision that didn't have instant success, and abandoning half-baked initiatives. A lot of the bad blood was stoked by disgruntled players who stopped playing a long time ago mixed in with a lot of petty office rumors that has nothing to do with the game.
I've held a grudge against PP for a long time, but I just don't care anymore. I am monitoring Mk4, and it does seem to be growing as they release more models. Not looking to get back in any time soon, but you never know. I used to think Mk4 was a horrible idea, but now with the latest AoS squatting scandal, I think PP might have accidentally made the right decision for once.
Mk4 was really the only choice. The game simply had to much shit. The armies were great but it was almost impossible to get a new guy into it. You just can’t stock that much shit.
Their resin printing with rubber casting takes labor and is also expensive to ship. The printing model seems sensible. Equivalent amount of labor and it’s a file shipped to Europe. The EU guys always got shafted with supply which seems to be due to the distribution model.
PP's leadership one day stopped taking their meds. Then they fired their shills, turned their forum off, told everyone who even mentioned taking a peak at their new edition to frick-off and C&D them. Then they tossed out most of their writers and people that made their settings. Not only that but they proceeded to tell everyone outside of America to frick off as well. When the new edition of their game dropped and everyone hated it; they were surprised by the negative reaction. Year later after fricking up so hard that stores who had nearly only stocked PP stuff to drop ALL future requests or purchases for PP stuff to abandon them, PP tried to do an about-face. Hence mkIV and their continued israelitestarter projects in order to keep themselves in business.
Really, I wouldn't be surprised if the CEO was actually given a fat check by GW to frick PP up so bad. Every choice and decision they made after 2017 or so was the worst one to make. I can't think of another company that burned to the ground as horrid as PP did.
Rackham
When the MTG judge lawsuit happened they killed the press ganger program. Those guys for better or worse actually did a ton to create the convention scene which is really the heart of warmachine. Most guys stuck around because they love organizing shit. It just had this period where everyone was a little taken aback.
The other issue was they moved their headquarters to get away from Seattle rent. This had abysmal timing as it was right around the start of Covid.
So instead of having people buying in and playing during covid we all just drank instead.
It was just a shit set of coinciding events that was hard to avoid.
This is going to be brief, and I don't have a timeline in my head anymore so likely out of order, but roughly everything that fricked the game.
So, first thing here. PP has, historically, been fricking atrocious in terms of community management.
>Pressganger program already discussed
Ok, so now Mk3 is around the corner. The game's as big as it's ever going to get, they've had some really successful years of releases, and they're building towards the new edition. They're talking up fixing a lot of the problems of the game.
Then their playtest data leaks. All of it. Players have access to every single card, even though they don't have access to the new baseline rules(which changed a decent bit, but not drastically). PP's response to this is two things: ban anyone from the forum who talks about it, and pretend like it didn't happen. This does not endear them to anyone for both reasons. My own personal memory here is of Soles talking about how he'd changed Hexy1 to make him a more spellslinger style caster, knowing as a read the post that they'd only swapped two of his spells, and one of the swaps was worse.
Now, in fairness here, the main rules nobody had did change a lot, and mk3 was consistently better than mk2 from a pure rules perspective. But all the wind was out, all the hype was gone, and PP had mostly pissed people off leading up to the release.
Then comes the themes. See, PP had a problem: their release method meant that they kept adding more and more shit to the factions, and bloat was getting bad. They'd also promised that they wouldn't sunset any models, so no retiring old kits. Themes were their solution, which was essentially an attempt to divide each faction up into their own mini factions.
Already, themes were unpopular. The thing most people loved about the game was the wombo combo nature of it, and that meant having access to a wide variety of models. Themes killed that because it basically forced specific interactions instead. So they're already off to a bad start. But then the themes were absolute ass. Their power level was all over the place, with some themes being absolutely amazing while others were absolute horseshit. Again we return to Skorne, where their first theme, Winds of Death, was a ranged focused theme about their shooting units. Which was kind of funny because Skorne was a hardcore melee focused faction in terms of playstyle before this, so Skorne players weren't exactly happy. And this is true for most of the themes, they were either dogshit or insanely good.
Eventually, themes got (kind of) fixed, but the damage on that end was already done.
So, next up is CID. CID was about the community helping balance the new releases, providing feedback on model rules ahead of time. In concept, it sounded good, and most people liked the idea. In practice, however, PP is shit at dealing with their community and their community was shit at handling rules interactions.
Gonna inject some personal experience right here for context. Warmachine got a rep for being a tryhard game that wasn't entirely deserved, but it wasn't false either. I was a veteran competitive player at this point, so I'll say that the game was pretty good at punishing tryhards, because unlike many wargames, you can't just netlist your way to victory. You gotta be good. So the community had it's fair share of tryhards(often ones who migrated from 40k for a more competitive experience) or even more than it, but most of them were the kind of 1-3 2-2 players who could beat the randos but would just get demolished once they got out of the first bracket. Many of them loved to b***h about shit as well, complain about rules they didn't know how to counteract or just grabbing the latest netlist without understand how to actually pilot it in non-optimum situations. That or b***hing when people made them work because that was how you beat the list(Haley2 mk2, looking at you).
Now, back to CID, those tryhards got a lot of say on the forums, and man, did they abuse it. It's always hard to quantify, but you had tons of people b***hing about the new armies without a deeper understanding of the game, or being clearly biased in terms of which way they wanted the army to go(Grymkin look cool. I want Grymkin to be strong so lets push for making them stronger).
That was a mess of shit to deal with(which comes back to the point of PP being bad at managing their community), but it wasn't the only problem. Used to be, Warmachine got roughly equal releases: every warmachine faction and every hordes faction got a new caster, a new light/heavy, new units, etc, etc. However, with CID, factions started getting huge releases just for them while other factions got very little. This meant that some factions when years without a release now, while other more internally popular factions saw far more releases and focus. Which wasn't entirely true, but man, public perception is a fricking hell of a drug. Plus, with everyone knowing what's coming next, there's not hype or excitement for what's next, in fact there's confusion: you play 4 weeks of test games with the new models, where their rules change each week, then you finally get them and it's mostly just "What did they finally end up as?"
At this point, you started to see a lot of bloat too. Rules started getting more complex for more things. Mk2 wise, most units would have 1-2 special rules, with a UA adding 1-2 more. Solos would come with 2-4 rules on average. All of a sudden, you've got units with 4+ special rules just baseline and solos often boasting 5-6 special rules. Not only does this increase brain drain in terms of keeping track of the game, it also means that armies start to both feel same-y and there being answers to everything. Hard for stealth to matter when there's a model anyone can bring to ignore it, etc.
Themes at this point really started to get out of hand with bloat as well.
Now, themes start increasing stuff in size. A popular theme benefit was to allow you to take models for free, soon enough this gets bigger and bigger, with it going from "take a random free solo worth 4 points" to "bring 2 free solos worth 5+ points, bring warjacks or warbeasts worth 6+ points". You've got 75 point armies now bringing ~20 points of free models.
Then Oblivion happened. Oblivion was the sort of conclusion of all this. Archons were insanely powerful solos with a million special rules. Infernals were a new faction that had their own new rules that were initially broken as all frick when they first dropped. The game got insanely complex, enough that those who'd hung out started leaving too just out of fatigue.
I didn't cover everything, but this is roughly the most of the issues PP fricked up.
Exactly. Try hard morons ruined CID, but CID deserved to be ruined.
>So, next up is CID. CID was about the community helping balance the new releases, providing feedback on model rules ahead of time. In concept, it sounded good, and most people liked the idea. In practice, however, PP is shit at dealing with their community and their community was shit at handling rules interactions.
Pagani is moronic and CID was a shitshow. Letting players balance the game was a huge mistake that everyone knew was going to happen.
It basically became constantly feeling like your shit was getting nerfed even though it wasn’t released and the b***hiest forum guys getting their stuff pushed by making up fake battle reports.
I’m still pissed they messed up the black pirate girls feat because of someone supposedly throwing Eiryss into their caster turn one. It was bullshit.
I play mk1 to this day, and bought a frickton of miniatures since they started sales of the old stuff alongside mkIV release. If you want to have fun with a game, you'll have it. Here's my latest WIP.
I liked it a lot in mk1/2 and have used it as inspiration for my rpg. It always had decent play at my local store and attracted good players/hobbyists. The problem was ultimately the company itself being dumb not so much the game. The game had an elegant simplicity.
In terms of PPs decision making, I honestly do think mk4 reflects a lot good choices. Their distribution method and product delivery is far, far better, with an easier bar of entry and no more massive amounts of confusion about what to buy or stock. The new mk4 army are themes in all but name, but with all the lessons learned baked into them and none of the baggage the old themes introduced. Army size getting cut in half is both solid for dealing with bloat and simply for army transport.
Plus, spell racks and modular jacks add a ton of flex to the mk4 armies, so you get a lot more freedom in terms of shifting around your army. Hell, Spell Rack is perhaps the only rule I've ever seen in any wargame that effectively works to discourage skew lists, so armies in mk4 tend to be more balanced in composition because of it.
selling resin prints at a super high price is the greatest sin any MINIATURES game can commit
Yeah initially I thought this, but when you get the models in hand they are actually superior to a lot of shit you can get from the STL guys. Made to paint, cool spots to do blends and make contrast look good. That kind of thing.
Generally if all you wanted was some cheap models there’s endless shit you can get to print on telegram.
Supporting a company that actually attempts to balance its rules and doesn’t try to soak you to stay competitive is worth something.
And while it's clear that their initial resin formulas were absolute shit, they've been making consistent progress.
The new Carver2 I got is actually a more flexible set of resin then what they've been using before. There's even a video floating around of someone doing a drop test at 3 feet and it being just fine, when the old shit fricking exploded.
Don't get me wrong, the company isn't perfect now. They're delayed bad, and I'd be more forgiving of that if their online store exclusive shit, like the new casters and Carver2, wasn't consistently shipping early while their store stuff is 1-3 months behind. Which feels pretty scummy.
That first resin was amazing in how shit it was. For some fricking reason it was impossible to glue. It would like soak up the glue.
I have the new Carver and they are right. The resin is really solid now. It’s just flexible enough that foam doesn’t frick it up, but has good detail.
They also replaced all my first gen resin when I b***hed in a mispack request lol. Was pretty solid of them.
I feel like they basically rode the Warcraft/DOTA 2 hype, sadly for them it couldn't last after Battleroyale and then the pandemic did their thing.
wow had already peaked and they were a success before dota2 existed which really set that scene off so I dunno
honestly warmahordes would make a pretty solid tab target MMO pvp game thing
>when warmachine was actually competing against 40k
>GWdrones say warmachine is bad because of expensive monopose kits, single loadout units and forced characters being bad for yourdudes and MTG combos being unfun gameplay
>40k now is entirely about expensive monopose kits, single loadout units and forced characters with MTG combos
It'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing
It's funny that mk4 actually gives you more freedom than 40k does now. Especially with the jacks moving to modular loadouts.
40K players now use giant pie plate objectives too now, only a matter of time before all the terrain are just flat cut outs
Warmachine now only uses 20,30,40, and 50mm objectives, and they've been making a real push for actual 3D terrain.
Yeah, the 2024 rule change caught me off-guard when introducing new players, having to re-learn game rules for vs play. Granted I like that they are trying to push for more and denser terrain play, and every few months introducing decently unique objectives like the gobbos, pirate skeletons, and arcane altars. Definitely felt like I had to move my army around more compared to 2023 set of missions.
Hope their schedule for releases and promotion will be better going forward, after that press announcement around month back. I know they are getting ready to focus more on Monsterpocalypse, finally getting some new scenarios which I hope lead to new game map mats as it fricking sucks only having two modes outside of old as frick print outs existing on legacy websites that somehow are still paid for.
I think it’s funny that every Warmachine thread has to be filled with GW shills b***hing.
Privateer press will never ascend to the level of bullshit that is 40k rules and the wotc style meta as a profit engine.
The rules are good. The models look cool and are fun to paint. My group is loving it. We have 10+ dudes playing every week.
I never see more than 1-2 40k games. Definitely not 5 every week.
I am just waiting on the news of Menites
>inb4 they ded
Nah, I'm sure either Kreoss will pull through or that Zu thing will pay off
Menites have been having some presence in the story. We know Kreoss is in charge of what remains of the Protectorate, we know that the Menites have joined the battle against the Orgoth, and we know that the Zu colony is shipping food, medical supplies, and other stuff to Immoren to support them.
So, the orgoths returned? And they have both beasts and mechs now? Anyone can give me a rund down of them? I kinda of like the not viking aestethic, and now than they have destroyed everblight coolness and replaced it with some scalies and menoth is in ZU doing conquistador stuff, I don't have an army.
Yea, Orgoth came back. The Orgoth, after getting their asses handed to them by warjacks, decided to make their own. They're not warjacks in the traditional sense, instead they're magical constructs with the souls of beasts they've driven mad used to animate them. So they blur the line between warjack and warbeast(and indeed, the next Orgoth army will be a fury army)
Thus far, they've been rampaging across the coast, having killed Blighterghast with an ancient relic and just barely being repelled from Ord(both narrative events). And yea, heavy viking aesthetic going.
Game play wise, they're a high cost alpha faction: all their shit has great stats all around and can do an insane amount of damage, but it costs a lot and they've got no way to keep it in the game once it starts getting damaged. They're not as fragile as Legion is/used to be, but they have real problems recovering once they start losing pieces. Horruksh is, at the moment, arguably the best caster in the game, and their new cadre release has buffed the hell out of him.
Noice, I will look the rage army of the orgoth then, I really prefer "living" warbeasts.
Hold up now they fricking offed Blitherghast? Just as Kruegar became his servant?
You're backwards. Blighterghast did something to keep his soul and some amount of his power safe when the Orgoth were killing him, then called in his pact on Krueger to revive him and have his followers shove Krueger full of what's left of the himself.
Fed to Toruk in return for the help of the Cryxian armies in invading and for the secret to killing a god. The Orgoth seem to be after Morrow and Thamar directly, if not all the gods.
Khymera are straight up Legion 2.0 in terms of lore. Saeryn and Rhyas fricked up with their athanc shards to make their own dragon faction with blackjack and hookers.
Redline, Perdition, Fire Group(with access to drag guns), Oriax's TK ability, Windstorm can be considered a form of threat extension. Just because everyone has decided "Horruksh with all the medium bases" is the meta doesn't mean that Orgoth lack threat extension.
>Fed to Toruk
What stops Toruk from just invading Immoren now? Blither after the powerup was specifically the reason he doesn't do that, well, him and other dragons but was quite a major part of that alliance
I think something in Oblivion led to a major weakening of Cryx forces, so he withdrew back into Cryx territory.
Gaspy went awol with Aurora after he got his shit wrecked when he tried to 1v1 a master. Other than that, I thought cryx had a huge advantage over the infernals because undead bullshit and soul capturing
Krueger, when he shows up, implies that that's exactly what's going to happen next. Toruk is coming for his remaining children, and the Iron Kingdoms are going to be getting involved through Blighterghast/Krueger. The one thing we do know is that Toruk got his shit shoved in by the dragon alliance 10 years ago, so even with Blighterghast's power(and it's implied that BG did something when he split off that kept some chunk of his power away from his athanc, so Toruk might not be as strong as you'd otherwise think) so he might not be able to intercede personally, at least yet.
Gaspy didn't go AWOL, he and Lucant are in the warcaster timeline. Aurora is MIA, but assumed to be alive.
Man imagine if Bligher sent it to Blighty because he's pretty much the only dragon who isn't a completely impulsive moron, probably not, but it would be funny
>Gaspy didn't go AWOL, he and Lucant are in the warcaster timeline. Aurora is MIA, but assumed to be alive.
I mean AWOL as in he kinda started doing his own thing before he fricked off through the portal
Oh, fair. Most of the HHS is someone going "I'm gonna go kill that Infernal Master!" followed by "Holy shit, that Infernal master just kicked my ass!"
What about blighterghast athanc? Tell me we will get everblight two, electric bogaloo.
An alpha faction with almost zero range extension? Everything is a static 10. I’m not sure who is giving them the alpha but I doubt they are winning much.
Don’t forget the frick up that was their scifi sequel setting that was pure slop. I can’t even remember it’s name it was so irrelevant. They tried crowd funding to support it and it didn’t even get a full release to my knowledge.
Warcaster? It was a good game. It just didn’t reach a critical mass.
I don’t know dude… trying to make games isn’t really a frick up. It’s sort of how games companies make money.
>it didn’t even get a full release to my knowledge
It got 2 expansions and a whole 4th faction.
why'd they kill jaga-jaga
What? They didn't kill Jaga. She shows up in one of the Requiem adventures.
squatwise that is
Lorewise, can I just ignore everything during and after the Claiming, or is there anything salvageable from the new lore? Stopped playing towards the end of Mk2 and wanted to try introducing Requiem or IKRPG to my current trpg group.
You'll miss out on Carvertown.
When they seemed like they killed Carver is was total bullshit. When they brought it back it was amazing.
Also, it's Carversburg
>pig land
lol wtf
that's kinda based
Our african warlord has come so far.
I really liked his bracers and don't like his new robot arms nearly as much.
I always took him and the Farrow as more Mexican banditos, but his habit of gathering titles does seem very african warlord.
That;s exceptionally lame because the whole state of various no-man's lands and wild wests (easts) for mercs to thrive was one of my favorite things.
Honestly I don't think I'd ever move beyond the Mk2 and IKRPG2 quasi-ceasefire lull.
The ultimate time for skirmishes.
>I always took him and the Farrow as more Mexican banditos, but his habit of gathering titles does seem very african warlord.
Farrow really have a bit of both. Honestly, if you get into their lore they're pretty interesting, with a lot of factors influencing how they act and why they've never really risen to the heights of most of the other races.
Did he build it or conquer something else?
Built it. It's on the shores of Scaleforth Lake, I believe, so he might have taken over some abandoned Trollkin lands, but that'd be the worst of it.
Yeah I had to look it up since it MIGHT have been a conquered Ternon Crag or something.
I love em. Favortie part of the setting.
>Yeah I had to look it up since it MIGHT have been a conquered Ternon Crag or something.
Na, that's what the Magnus4 and Carver2 fluff have been about. Magnus stops Carver from trying to take over the Crag, and almost kills him in the process, then Carver comes back looking for Magnus, but decides to leave the Crag alone for some reason(I don't remember if he says why).
To make his own Crag, with Blackjack, and Hookers!
What is Magnus even doing right now? I thought his whole deal was being an uber Cygnar patriot
That's what the "official" Magnus is rumored to be doing, but we don't have any specific info.
They put out Magnus4 as a junior who's become depressed and can't give up the merc life, so he's running around working for anyone and everyone.
Man got addicted to being a homeless gunman, tragic
At least he's got a cool warjack for his troubles, legit like its look better than any of the new ones
Carver also got a junior look. Both of them are rocking the new super heavy warjack/warbeasts, at 80mm.
Fricker is rocking his own pig cyclone, goddamn
>Super heavy
Huh? Was that what behemoth was?
It's what he would have been, and what people have asked for.
But they added a new base size, 80mm. They're kind of weird, because you get the psuedo battle engines who are weirdly cheap and fragile, but often big tech pieces, and then the super heavies, which are only a single grid(so not much more durable than a normal heavy), often expensive(the three we have right now is Magnus and Carver at 20 points for both, then the Wyvern at 19), but they've often boasting a shitload of weapons and some pretty powerful special rules.
Rules wise they're mid way to colossals: they don't benefit from a lot of terrain, but you can still move them around and you still need to actually draw LOS to them.
I miss his old bracers and don't really like the Iron Gob.
>Only factions that interested me were the gators and the pigfolk
>ask the LGS to get some minis
>Live in Scandinavia
>Takes over a year before i hear back from about the models being now available
Yeah, frick that.
That’s because Carver and the pigs were squatted but Carver just came back and was released recently. It’s not a logistical issue.
I don't know if I'd call them squatted. They don't have an mk4 army, but Carver2 and the fluff surrounding him suggests that pigs are generally on the way up, rather than down, what with having their own city and territory now.
The fact that Magnus The Unstoppable is called Magnus 4 instead of Magnus 3 makes me hopeful he’ll show up as a general for the regular Cygnar army force whenever it gets made
I think from an RPG perspective, the Claiming and the post Requiem time is actually really good. From a setting perspective, it was mostly a return to status quo, except that all the nations armies are devastated and there's even more of a need for random hobos to go do dangerous jobs. And while some things, like Grymkin, were kind of stupid as a wargame army, they're incredible RPG villains.
Ios is the largest change, being gone and all. But even that can be a plotline to follow up on instead of just being a loss. You can also use the post "giant war against demons" as a decent justification for why your players are rocking the good stuff as well. Hard to police that shit when there's hundreds of battlefields just covered with top of the line military hardware for the taking.
I know they pivoted their plans with the Cryx release, but we have any clues what the next armies are, or are they buckling down and filling out the existing stuff for now? I know Fury-based Orgoth is coming at some point.
We know Orgoth is getting a fury based army, that Cygnar is getting Gravediggers, and that Khador is getting Lords of Umbrey. They're being cagier with dates now, but the implication seems to be that we'll get at least two of them before end of the year.
We also know the name of the next Khymera army(Emberfrost), but beyond a symbol on a tshirt and that it's led by Saeryn we know nothing.
Whatever happened to the Mercenaries and Llael? Same question with Magnus, unless he died.
Mercs sort of faded out according to lore, with the various nations modernizing their military forces, both in structure and in equipment. There's far less of a need for them to hire on mercs in bulk because of that, though they're not exactly gone.
The various mercs in specific we don't know a whole lot. Dwarves went back to Rhul(and Ossrum showed up in mk4 lore, though not on the table), pirates seem to still be pirates(we've heard nothing about them), and Llael is back to being a nation(Khador, haven't borne quite a bit of the Claiming because a shitload of Greylords and even one of their Princes was an Infernalist, had to basically cede all it's claimed terrority back if for no other reason then it couldn't really hold it), so the Resistance likely transformed itself into a functional military of some description.
Magnus is a bit up in the air. We've seen Magnus4, who's a super solo with fluff about him simply being unable to stop being a merc, he can't give up the life, he can't stop, and he just works for everyone now. Magnus3, on the other hand, has been hinted to be a general in the new Cygnaran military, and is believed to be a one of the casters for the upcoming Gravediggers army for Cygnar.
What about Ord? I really like my sea lords iberians.
Generally doing alright in the background nation sort of way it always has. I remember Baird did some maneuvering with Llael(and saved their queen during the Claiming) but I don't recall specifics.
The most recent narrative convention event was about the Orgoth attempting to push through Ord's defensive walls. Several of the walls were breached, but ultimately the Orgoth were repulsed, but still assumed to be rampaging through Ord like the vikings they are.
The rumor, and seriously, just a rumor, is that Ord and Llael won't get their own armies, but instead receive cadres for some of the other factions to reflect them as allies in the fight against the Orgoth.
More or less what I expected, tough the IK would get better if they got more nations than aren't not-soviet rusia and magical usa, and with menoth out...
Their new army model does allow them more freedom in terms of how factions are released, since they're intended to be "one off" things. So it's possible we might get to see something for more nations.
Most gamey game ever. I had no intenterest based on that, tho it did have some nice models and unique aesthetic. What's curious is that both 40k and AoS have completely abandoned the 'wargame as a simulation of battle' game design and have become gamey, so maybe pp can make it back to the top. ToW and HH are the only games left that play like GW games of the past 30 years.
40k was only kind of "wargame as a simulation of battle" in 2e. 3e made it significantly more abstract and only devolved from there. AoS never ever even remotely was.
Well I only played 3rd and 4th ed 40k so yah, my point still stands. I don't have interest in modern 40k or aos for the same (gamey) reason as i don't have interest in warmahordes.
Command points/abilities can be regarded as gamey, for example
>standard foot troop guy
>has movement 6"
>ah but i will spend a command point to make him move twice as far
???
This is gamey. What even IS a 'command point' in the above example? What could make a man suddenly have twice his running speed? Magic? But this isn't a spell...its just a 'game' mechanic for purposes of fun/balance/just because who tf knows. But it's not realistic and "simulation" oriented as WHFB and older editions of 40k were.
Another example could be like how in AoS army composition drastically changes how units operate. In WHFB, if you take say 3 great cannons in your Empire army, your Army doesn't magically become a 'black powder death bringer brigade' where the cannons are just better and everything gets bonuses etc. You..simply have 3 cannons.
Is there any way this game could make a comeback?
And seriously the game's downfall is a case study. What can be learned from it?
>Is there any way this game could make a comeback?
Well it seems to be chugging along at a steady pace, so while it likely won't return to glory days, it will be out there with other wargames, like Infinity, Conquest. etc.
>And seriously the game's downfall is a case study. What can be learned from it?
Most important ones for me are
1.Don't be a dick to LGS's
2.Forcing your players into certain builds is a bad idea
>Is there any way this game could make a comeback?
Maybe. PP's got control over their production again (they 3D print everything themselves, basically, and don't have molds that can be stolen by a Chinese plastics manufacturer) so product delays shouldn't be as big a problem as it used to be, they are focusing more on tight/small armies which will help control faction bloat, they've got their forums back up (though the format they have going isn't very good), and are better at community engagement in general.
Time heals all wounds, as they say. So long as PP doesn't do anything to royally piss everyone off (again), then maybe they can get back to where they were in 2015 one day. If they do make a come-back, though, I don't see it happening before 2030. What they really need is new blood to grow up, get jobs/money, and start filling the seats that their original fans left behind.
>And seriously the game's downfall is a case study. What can be learned from it?
Don't let nerds run a company. Even if it's a gaming company.
Don't make too many drastic decisions/changes in too short a time. Changing to MK. 3 without really play-testing it, while the disbanding of the press ganger system, along with soft-squatting some collections while transferring to the new-edition, all contributed to the mass exodus the game suffered around 2016.
If you want to cut-out brick and mortar stores, you had better have a SOLID plan for how you are going to sell your product.
There largest issue with delays, at the moment,is simply lack of manpower as they seem to get issues with orders every few months due to influx of purchases.
What do you mean most gamey game?
Yeah, AoS is rather arcady in design. Last year of 2e was really fun, though I've been losing interest with 3e due to GW as always messing things up. Hope 4e launch isn't too bad, already haven't played 40k since 10e launched and have no desire unless getting together with friends for 4e.
I mean, mk3 as a system was fine, and seemed well paytested. The issue was between all the leaks, their reaction to it, and the rollout of themes, mk3 got a terrible start. But the basic rules were quite solid.
Mk3 as a core system, as always, did improve over MK2 as did MK2 over Mk1. But you have to remember how long it taken for MK3 to be good. It's current state is great, with few cave-eats of Archons and Battle Engine being still abit too optimal and some themes still being abit garbo, but it's overall a great edition in its current state and even has a community edition in the works.
Eh, the core rules had some issues when MK3 first hit. It been 8 years, so memory is fuzzy, but I remember there was issues with models being knocked down weren't engaged, so some rules that relied on that just didn't work, like Gang. I think the rules for boosting damage rolls after charging were also tied with being engaged or something.
The only aspect of warmachine I find very off putting is the real lack of generic warcasters taking away from the "your dudes" aspect. I'm sure I'm just being pedantic about it as you could customize the look of one and just call it a different name but it's just not the same.
Nah I agree with you, "your dudes" aspect was always something warmahordes lacked greatly, although character warcasters did allow for varied and specialised playstyles, Generic McDude/McDudette option for warcaster/warlock could go a long way
I am still confused why they don't offer this option, don't have to make it tournament legal if you're worried about balance (just set it to unlimited only for Mk4, for example.)
I don't even mind if they aren't super customizable just a generic melee caster generic ranged caster loadout for each faction.
I never understood this issue. It's not like 40k where it was always about yourdudes and then they slowly took that away in favor of warhammer skinned marvel super heroes. Warmachine has always been about specific casters doing their thing. If it really triggers your autism enough, just use casters as your dudes, especially in mkiv where you have a spell rack
Its also the worst part for me, I love to make characters. That and half the units are named and not generic.
Trying to convince my old IKRPG gm to revive a campaign we ran about 10byears ago. New characters. What is the most ridiculously broken combat build that is not a focus/fury user? Thamarite advocate is probably out in this campaign.
Well you can use someone mishearing "Pygs" as "Pigs" to get a Chosen of Dhunnia (From one of the small paperback expansions for Unleashed) x other Caster type combo Farrow when it was intended for non-Gifted races.
Gets you some nice regeneration.
I don't remember Unleashed being out yet then, but now I want a farrow warlock. The battle boar as listed in the rules is insanely broken. Weapon and armor trained and pre-nerf rabid makes that starter warbeast hit like a heavy. Insanity.
Agreeing with others - farrow are the best.
>Skirmish game with low barrier to entry
the barrier to entry got shockingly high as PP kept raising prices. the game started out as a cheaper alternative to GW, with prices half as expensive per model as GW models, but by the early '10s their prices had inflated to be equal to GWs and by the mid '10s they had surpassed GW prices at the time by quite a bit
>Fast paced rules allowing for quick and fluid games
that were increasingly ruined by appeals to competitive gameplay. flat cutout terrain instead of actual terrain because its clunky with the rules, giant colorful soccerfield scoring zones that break anything resembling immersion, proxy bases and premeasuring cranked up to 11, chess clocks with extremely tight time limits where losing on time is a very real and frequent loss condition, rules rebalanced every few weeks in digital documents with little to no regularity/schedule or announcement, etc
>Different means to deal with opponents instead of being forced to purchase hard counters
this i mostly agree with, although a handful of turn 1 cross table assassins which could only be thwarted by a handful of armies poisoned the pot
>Successful in a time when GW was shitting the bed
successful because of good business practices and a fun game during 1st edition and early 2nd, but they kept moving further away from that, raising prices, not weighing in on the toxic competitive mechanics that had taken over the game or even leaning into them, a bloated and uncurated model line that became increasingly impossible for store owners to properly stock and demanding more shelf space than its sales justified, rulesets that started forcing you into very specific collections and then changing those rules overnight. what happened to warmahordes should be a cautionary tale
Their website is fricking abysmal, and the photos of the kits are so small you can't get a good look at them at all.
>rulesets that started forcing you into very specific collections
That might be my straw that broke the camel's back, when rules for Northkin were released (or beta of those rules). Felt like it was funneling me into buying basically a new army. And I was already disillusioned with how Mk3 was going. And most friends were getting into different games, Infinity, Malifaux, Guild Ball.
2d terrain is awesome and anyone who says otherwise doesn’t actually play games.
Do I want to haul 2 extra crates of shit or a small box with two tables of terrain?
Meanwhile a 40k table will have a million of those dumb frick two angle ruins and they still somehow manage to not impact the game in the slightest.
Honestly complaints like this are just 40k no-games who only care about the hobby side.
Ruins in 40K function like WMH forests, they’re immensely impactful just from the LoS blocking alone.
people like
are part of why warmahordes deserved to die
Honestly it's just the lack of hype. It's hard to get excited when the game and company still seem like they're on death's door.
Feels like I'm buying a timeshare in a coffin.
I don't know if I buy death's door anymore. Two years ago? Sure, but they've been chugging along pretty well, and making constant adjustments to their process. Companies struggling that badly don't usually have the breathing room to adjust.
Spartan games was putting up new models and even a Kickstarter right up until they announced their immediate closure
Wasn't Spartan's problem that it was spreading too far, too fast? It was doing like half a dozen mini games at the same time, just pumping and dumping?
It really doesn't help that their plan to revitalize the game and bring it back to life was...squat every single existing model and replace them with new armies.
See even AoS didn't do this, not even 1st ed AoS. People b***h about that happening to Bretonnia and Tomb Kings, but the vast majority of models were canon and usable for years in official capacities along with still being purchaseable.
Every single Mk2/Mk3 army is dead. Some have pity rules but you literally cannot buy those models anymore, so they're just that. Pity rules. They don't exist in the lore and will be phased out soon.
So Mk2/Mk3 is 100% dead. If you want to play Warmachine now and don't already own models, you have to play either Storm Legion, Sea Raiders, Winter Korps, Troll Pirates or Vampire Elves, with Cryx getting their first army YEARS after Mk4 launched.
And is Mk4 fun?
Yeah it's fine. If you liked Mk2 or Mk3, it plays like those with some quality of life rules taken from Warcaster which work well.
The resin they use now is pretty decent, I recently got Magnus the Unstoppable and the quality on him and his Mangler-Renegade super heavy jack is pretty good.
The game itself is fine, but PP have already demonstrated they're more than happy to completely upend the table even more than GW have, which does not make me excited to support the new system.
It's also tragic because I think Warcaster was fun and the factions had really cool, strong identities once I finally read the sourcebook, but it's been completely neglected.
>Every single Mk2/Mk3 army is dead. Some have pity rules but you literally cannot buy those models anymore, so they're just that. Pity rules. They don't exist in the lore and will be phased out soon.
Pity rules? The legacy armies are all quite competitive. Plus PP has set up the armies to be actively balanced against each other, which includes the legacy armies.
Beyond that, while no new models are being made, they were for sale for years, and one of the biggest complaints about Warmachine before was the absolutely excessive catalogue. They made rules to let all the vets play with their old armies while working on new stuff. And when some of the earliest legacy stuff was looking pretty bad, they dropped a big balance update in Jan. that fixed a ton of shit.
It doesn’t matter if they’re competitive, they’re literally unobtainable. Saying “oh you had years to buy them” makes no sense when they’re absolutely useless as far as keeping the game alive outside of acting as grog lures.
In fact, making them competitive is an awful idea because then you can end up with strong, meta defining armies that you literally cannot purchase into outside of eBay. It’s nonsensical and literal Skornergy but IRL.
Model companies will always end up with either giant SKU lists or they end up dead. You have to make new models and sell new models to keep the company afloat. Whether that’s by redesigning old models and replacing them or doing a round robin rotation like the squirrels in Spain do for Infinity. Axing all of your previous model line in order to start from scratch would be a disaster for any company, the only reason it didn’t have more of a controversy is because the game had already been written off by the vast majority of its former playerbase.
Except that when they axed all the old stuff, they new stuff they put in has a bunch of extra, new rules to make the game more dynamic and more interesting. Modular warjacks and the spell rack are both drastic changes that required them to redo their entire line.
And yes, that's the point. The longer the game goes, the harder legacy will be to get, but the more mk4 will be free.
Plus, what you're saying is that people should be free to netlist and chase the meta instead of buying the faction they're interested in and sticking to them.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the new models. I bought into storm legion and think the jacks look way better than the old ironclads and chargers.
But I also don’t want to dance around the fact that the Mk4 rollout was because PP was weeks or months from liquidation and not some master plan. They literally could not afford to keep their production facilities because they nuked their own sales.
It was this or get bought by Wizards and even that’s clearly off the table now since WoTC is in a death spiral too.
My main gripe with the new warjacks are all the glowy bits, which is especially horrendous on new Ios ones
But I do really like that they pretty much prebuilt them with magnetic parts
They moved because of Seattle rent? I don’t think they were doing spectacular but it wasn’t a liquidation situation.
It’s fine they did a good job with it. Old armies we all own have rules so if we want to play a game with them or pull back in a buddy the models aren’t dead.
But the focus on the growth of the game and con/tournament scene seems to be all mk4.
There is no reason they can’t be super balanced. Even if some broken combo shows up it’s not going to impact the prime meta which is the main concern.
mUh cOmPoTayToooe
You fricking numbskull, it's exactky this kind of view that killed the game. The pic earlier "how it should have been" versus "how it was" was because of smoothbrain numnnuts like you.
Normal players don't give a frick about competitive.
>squat every single existing model and replace them with new armies
This was entirely for production reasons. The new way of doing it is much better than the horrific bloat of the days of old.
>This was entirely for production reasons
Lmao this dumbfrick actually bought that excuse.
Still an active community locally, so its still got legs. Thanks to 3d prints, its highly accessible.
Honestly don't want PP to rival GW, by getting as big as GW, a rather se smaller game systems. Kinda boring that all places just plays 40k.
I don't understand why.
Really like the system, got a warmachines demo recently and accidentally have a full Cirlce army with max field allowance for one of their prime factions.
Not tested anything apart from mk4.
game with low barrier to entry
False, Warmahordes was expensive as frick and still is.
>>Fast paced rules allowing for quick and fluid games
Kind of true, depending on the edition and factions played.
means to deal with opponents instead of being forced to purchase hard counters
Lmao, especially during the Themes era. Cope harder.
in a time when GW was shitting the bed
This is a meme.
Stop drinking the Kool-Aid, you mindless corporate golem.
Stop being a gay. There was never a hard counters meta. One dude has consistently placed well in tournaments using the same 10 or so models since mk 2.
Having a “best theme” in a faction isn’t the same as “buy this theme or lose”
>Skirmish game with low barrier to entry
I think it has a pretty low barrier to entry, we got the smaller battleboxes that are pretty cheap, but $79.99 which is enough to try the game in the 30 points skirmish.
Probably exist cheaper games but compared to GW atleast 😛
Wish discount boxes would perish and ordinary unit boxes would be cheaper.
Since it's a pretty big commitment to get a unit to the table, with the building and painting. I really perfer the cycle of bying indiviual unit boxes, paint them and repeat to expand my collection.
I feel that PP is releasing their units after a little time as indivudual units which is good, I don't care if it's not in retail boxes. would be nice though...
>:P
Frick off Matt.
NTA but GW shit is 80 bucks a unit. It’s not cheap and people who think there should be a “cheap war gaming option” are fricking moronic, but it’s not GW expensive.
It’s also not full of the balance homosexualry which is obviously pushing people toward flavor of the month for whole armies.
GW doesn’t do shit like “pick one or two new models to keep your army in the meta.” It will literally swing from the quarterly release to the next with entire games being won one the strength of one pushed unit.
It’s fricking dumb and frankly I can’t understand how anyone could play a 40k “tournament” with a straight face.
Whereas warmachine you have tournaments all the time. That’s part of the fun.
>Skirmish game with low barrier to entry
The models are just as expensive if not more than equivalent sized 40k models, the game was plagued with availability issues (one faction literally had ONE shipment to the UK then zero more), and the powercreep was unreal.
>Fast paced rules allowing for quick and fluid games
Games were played on a 2 hour chess clock. Two fricking hours.
>Different means to deal with opponents instead of being forced to purchase hard counters
The game's rules didn't let you play hard counters anyway, it was all about putting the best blob you could on the table and hoping for a good matchup.
>Successful in a time when GW was shitting the bed
Hardly a claim to fame.
Game fricking sucked.
>Spoilers for Mk3 start
>Everyone assumes they're fake because they're nerfing Skorne, the worst Mk2 faction
>Turns out they're real
>Mk3 releases
>Skorne is completely broken levels of bad
>Takes almost a year for PP to stop saying Skorne is fine
>They do a huge errata
>IT FIXES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
>Skorne remains completely unplayable until PP says frick it and makes their battle engines completely overtuned to the point where every single list is forced to have two of them
Like holy shit, the people in control of the game don't even know how to balance it. They thought Hexeris1 was going to be the strongest caster in the game at the release of Mk3. He wound up being the worst caster in the worst faction. I'm still furious.
>I'm still furious.
It shows, Anon. But shouldn't life be all pain and suffering for Skorne players? Isn't that thematic?
Well the best caster for an awful lot of Mk3 was a fat guy who couldn't care less about Hoksune so not really.
>Joined a slow grow league as Skorne
And that's how i never got into warmahordes
I found it pretty obnoxious. I want a miniatures game to be telling a story, not feel like an autistic competitive CCG match.
The rules didn't really support the theme properly. EG Khador was touted as the faction with big warjacks but they were inaccurate and your caster had to funnel energy into them so they could actually hit so in practice you had one warjack and then a bunch of infantry.
You never felt like you were in the middle of a steampunk version of WWI either. Don't think I ever saw a table with trenches or a turn-of-the-century looking town but with tesla coils to match the vibe of the setting. Whereas the local 40K crowd built/painted a bunch of terrain matching the settings' gothic/Catholic vibes.
Khador's always been a victim of marketing. They set up a standard for the starter sets that does a good job of showing off the average battlegroup; a caster, a heavy, and 2 light jacks, a nice mix. But Khador doesn't have any lights, so they do the closest thing, which is 2 heavies. This gives the impression that Khador is the big stompy robot faction. In reality, both on the table and in the fluff, Khador is supposed to have a limited amount of jacks, due to not having access to the same cortex tech as the other nations, so they take what they do have and strap it to the biggest block of steel and guns they have to use as support for their plentiful foot troops. It doesn't help that early editions vastly overvalued what jacks could do.
Wonder where the jack guy is now
It would've been so easy to make a Mk3.5 and fix the entire game, but nobody cared enough to do it.
Community Mk3.5 is currently in closed beta testing, anon...
Though I prefer core of 4 over 3, so I am not that interested. Especially due to unit sizes.
Gravedigger previews soon apparently
In a week it seems, wonder if rumors of Magnus 3 being in the army will be true.
That'd be cool, though Magnus never struck me as a trencher caster. Would make more sense than storm legion for sure, though.
Little disappointed it's not a new Fury army. But hopefully, that means more Orgoth soon.
Where the FRICK is my Circle army
I wonder if they are lying low, since civilization was devastated by the Infernal war.
They hate the Orgoth as much as any of the people being invaded right now, they were the ones who gave them the plague that fricked them over originally.
Perfect time for them to make a reappearance.
By the lore, Circle's actually doing pretty well. They were so remote they avoided most of the Claiming, and all the damage it did to civilization means they're in a much better spot then they were before.
As for an army, who knows? The faction basically split in two at the end of mk3, so how it goes it an open question.
fricking finally. Trenchers are the best part of Cygnar lore