I don't know why Simon is so moronic when she clearly kept telling him that. Also he at least gave humanity a second chance and killed the WAU. He can always kill himself too.
And he also has brain damage. Or at least the copy of him is based of a Canadian with brain damage.
He's like, twice as moronic. Probably voting Trudeau unironically.
>Died too early to vote Trudeau >Died just in time to clone yourself 3+ times and experience a torment at the very edge of human comprehension
Living the life...
Killing the wau actually ruins any chance for humanoid life on earth
I mean look at simon if the wau just brings everyone back like that it would be fine
Things take time and glowing ghost b***h is fish food anyway
Yeah, the WAU did nothing wrong. Sure, the in-progress work is horrifying, but it's making progress nonetheless, and it clearly has no ill-intent or designs of control on the minds it brings back. The fact that Simon was also able to be reconstructed from a scan done nearly a century ago is absolutely huge, and it reached that point in only a year. At that rate, another few years year would likely have seen a new race of Digi-Humans reclaiming the Earth, and actual organic humans would be in no way a pipe dream.
Meanwhile, Catherine's whole thing is just taking the WAU's own scanning technology, stealing credit for it, and then chucking the whole thing into space because reasons, and she doesn't care how many people she allows to go insane or kill themselves along the way if it means she gets what she wants.
And there's no telling what life in the ARK is going to be like, especially long term. What happens when couples want to have children? What happens after you've been with the same few dozen people for decades or even centuries? Honestly the ARK might end up being just as much, if not more of, a hellscape of mental torment than being part of he WAU's testing period is.
>Honestly the ARK might end up being just as much, if not more of, a hellscape of mental torment
Besides the whole "it was all a simulation" part this would be a decent setting for a Soma prequel. They could rework it as a 2013-era live test of volunteers who had their memories erased and who "wake up" on "the Ark" and the game follows the decaying relationships.
5 months ago
Anonymous
And there's no telling what life in the ARK is going to be like, especially long term. What happens when couples want to have children? What happens after you've been with the same few dozen people for decades or even centuries? Honestly the ARK might end up being just as much, if not more of, a hellscape of mental torment than being part of he WAU's testing period is.
you just reset the whole thing every once in a while, otherwise you'd run out of memory eventually
some kind of groundhog's day where noone is bill murray
I think this scenario was also touched upon when you're fricking around with AI people trying to get information out of some guy, which kinda reminds me of that basketball game vhs scp
Yeah, the whole thing with being locked inside the ARK for possible-eternity as a preserved example of humanity would be a boring and existential hell. Granted, it's still a situation that has potential to evolve, as they have so much time to interact, reflect, and create, but it absolutely would be an immensely precarious emotional and mental ordeal to have to deal with, and frankly a lot of the crew seems moronic. That's half the reason I'd be hopeful over the WAU pulling scans from the rest of history, because a lot of everyone else was just as moronic as Simon--it's why so many gleefully killed themselves, and it's why I doubt they'd be able to deal with the trials and tribulations of being an immortal commune.
But who knows. Time loop/immortal communes are interesting concepts as well. I liked 2017's The Endless for dipping its toes into that.
I'd have agreed with you before AI art became a thing and we witnessed it create abominations. Without human intervention to guide the AI it's going to continue creating deviations and learning from itself to create even worse abominations, especially with the increasingly limited and corrupted dataset of humans it has to pull from.
>without human intervention
Then it's a good thing the WAU has already started to perfectly recreate humans that could then intervene, lol, lmao
5 months ago
Anonymous
Nope 🙂
5 months ago
Anonymous
Simon literally intervenes despite being largely outside the system. You have the option to shut the entire thing down even and that's from a very limited and barely functional abomination.
>Also he at least gave humanity a second chance and killed the WAU
holy shit did you pay any attention at all? killing the WAU is killing the "second chance" that humanity has. The ark is not a second chance ,it's nothing. Its orbit will decay and it will fall into the sun ina few hundred years. The WAU is the only way even a semblance of humanity can ever reclaim the earth.
Every single orbit undergoes decay, even if its so small that you cannot measure it. I'm pretty sure the only way to avoid it is by having its orbit be tethered to two objects, like a Lagrange point but I'm not even sure if that prevents it completely.
it would take anything a moronic amount of time, way way way longer than the lifespan of the universe, for anything to fall into the sun just because of orbital decay
it's been a while since I last played but wasn't it set to orbit the sun, not the earth? Either way, its orbit will eventually decay and it will fall into whatever celestial body it is in orbit of.
>its orbit will eventually decay
ye in about 100,000,000,000,000,000 years
for reference the universe is 13,700,000,000 years old
low orbit and "orbiting the sun" are pretty different things
5 months ago
Anonymous
>aliens find the box a few centuries later >they think it's just some saved data from an advanced video game >they upload the memories of the people in it in the latest alien version of resident evil and play it on alien twitch to use them as smart npcs
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's more like 3 years until crashing back into the ocean, on LEO. On higher orbits it could survive solar radiation anywhere between 1 - 1000 years depending how far from Earth magnetosohere.
5 months ago
Anonymous
it's not orbiting earth
it will get destroyed by solar radiation for sure but that will happen way sooner than any other event imaginable
What? I played it a fairly long time ago but I don't think earth got fricked because of humanity. Wasn't it an asteroid? How the frick do you take responsibility for that kind of shit?
Or are you talking about how the WAU is horrific as a last invention made by humans? I think it's better than nothing, and maybe letting it alone for a few centuries will allow the thing to go through a breakthrough and give birth to a new form of humanity.
Killing it is straight moronic. Just a way to make sure that nothing on earth is left behind and to turn it into a dead ball of dirt with only a few species of algaes, microbes and fishes living in the depths.
Frick that.
>with only a few species of algaes, microbes and fishes living in the depths
That's enough to start over.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Who cares?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>t. macroorganism
5 months ago
Anonymous
The purpose of life is to propagate itself. Why wouldn't I, as a human, not want humanity to continue in at least some fashion?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah in a normal world. But seeing the absolute state of earth I doubt anything will come from it. The only form of life that might continue to develop will be deep under the sea where only primitive ultra specialized things can thrive. You're not getting a type V civilization out of this.
5 months ago
Anonymous
But...
Anon... That's literally how WE started...
5 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe from thermal vents.
Yeah in a normal world. But seeing the absolute state of earth I doubt anything will come from it. The only form of life that might continue to develop will be deep under the sea where only primitive ultra specialized things can thrive. You're not getting a type V civilization out of this.
There have been many extinction events where almost all biodiversity on earth is wiped out.
>Life exists by propagating itself, but not for anything.
every single thing living organisms do is to gather energy to secure the means to replicate itself.
And that's how they propagate themselves.
All that any self-replicating structure does is replicate itself, a Virus doesn't fit most definitions of life, yet all it does is replicate itself. Prions and RNA structures also aren't alive but that's all they do.
Outpacing entropy breaking down the created structures is how you eventually get a structure that is complicated enough to do something beyond just replicating itself, one could almost say that the purpose of self-propagation is life if there weren't examples to the contrary that I just mentioned.
I think catherine wanted to believe in it a little too. It's why she got so stressed out at the end. She was smart enough to know better, but she wanted to cling some little bit of hope.
Catherine was quite clearly completely at peace with being a digitized copy of her real self, she barely even reacted to learning about her original death.She got stressed out because she can't handle interpersonal conflict well and was stuck with a fricking idiot that just could not figure out something that should be very easy to grasp berating her and calling her a fricking lying traitorious b***h and all that.
>she barely even reacted to learning about her original death
Her reaction is just like simon's when he hears his former self and just treats it like an "other" that's not really him so doesn't really matter. To the present her that could've still been considered winning the coin toss. Simon flipped out on her before and she didn't blow a fuse or get emotional and start trying to insult him. I think some small part of her wanted to believe and she wasn't just lying to him. It was one of her scientist coworkers who gave her that idea anyway so even if she thought it was farfetched it still came from a reputable source.
I think it's more about getting some sort of meaning : she knew she was fricked either way, she reached her purpose then simon brought her back to her reality, ence the outburst
I agree that's mostly what she was going for yeah. It was to try and salvage the last remnants of humanity and that was a fulfilling enough purpose for her whereas for simon it was purely self preservation.
Idk, also what was the point of WAU besides body horror? The story ignores it near the end, and you can remove it entirely and just say "comet hit the earth, everything is fricked"
>what was the point of WAU besides body horror?
None, really. It's just there to justify the presence of monsters and weird shit, it's not a huge element in the plot. I don't even know why Simon would go through the trouble of trying to destroy it since he's planning to leave earth behind anyway.
I guess it is technically doing its job. It's the people who created it that didn't consider humanity being dead is better than being a cancerfied zombie monstrosity
Its been like 7 years since I played but WAU's job was to preserve humanity, which it was doing in its own misguided (to us) way. It used what it had available to do so.
I know it's purpose is to save humanity, I just think it's dumb
No?
The WAU's job was to fix structural damage to the station and preserve its original condition - that's all.
It's a repair nanobot swarm, essentially a synthetic janitor.
However, when it noticed all the crew were dying it freaked out and began deviating beyond the confines of its original programming - trying to 'fix' deceased organic life.
It’s not like anyone was ever real anyways. Aside from a couple scientists who eventually succumbed, everyone is already dead with data simulating people.
I don't know, there's people everywhere joking and fricking around, there's life, it's not as depressing as a world on automatic mode with everyone dead or on the verge of death and robots forever roaming the world slowly corrupted parading the memories and personalities of dead people like if they were still alive.
>that part underwater where you have to attack a scout robot who was helping you because you need batteries or whatever >only fricking robot in the game acting friendly and sticking to you probably because it was starving for attention and company
Literally no, also some fish have human face(s) on them, imagine your last memory being brainscanned and then found yourself stuck in a fish. That shit keeps me up at night better than the monsters.
I normally hate these noguns walking sim "horror" games but the anglerfish moment is so effective in this game that I will still recommend it to this day
I didn't play it for years because people kept labelling it a "walking horror" but it's only that technically, it feels nothing like the others in that genre and I hate the "rep" it carries.
Frick those monsters that have super hearing. They're scary the first time you encounter them, after that they slow down the game. Especially in Theta Maintenance.
if they had this technology why didn't the entire world build huge underground server bunkers, like some kind of Horizon Zero Dawn automatic building facilities, upload everyone's mind into them have them live in paradise for a few hundred years, and then use the robots to terraform the world until they eventually could upload themselves back into augmented biorobits that look human but have huge wieners and never age or die while being linked to the servers in case they die like Altered Carbon.
killing the WAU is a mistake; the odds of it being able to generate some kind of new half-organic sapient race able to survive in the ocean is pretty high
They won't be humanity, maybe post humans at most. At best they'd be at least as intelligent as, but assuming WAU can self improve they would end up being much more intelligent than us.
Humanity gets to have its last hurrah in the stars while the process of life begins on Earth over millions of years. Doing it naturally through evolution is better than WAU forcing everything to live.
Irrelevant.
Every single eco spiel or conservation movement has used the running mission statement of 'making sure the world is still good for our descendents', with no guaranteed descendants that goal is pointless.
Whether WAU succeeds or fails in recreating intelligent life, it is no business of the earth's biosphere whether it survives the process, nor the concern of extincted humankind whether they can feel good in their graves that they left a good inheritance to a cold, unfeeling universe.
Humanity gets to have its last hurrah in the stars while the process of life begins on Earth over millions of years. Doing it naturally through evolution is better than WAU forcing everything to live.
It never was a cointoss and the only reason people think it is, is because the devs were moronic and inconsistent as to who you followed. You go from
Original Simon - Copy 1 - Copy 2 - (final transfer) - Stay in Copy 2.
For narrative purposes I guess you have to do that, but you always play as the copy right until the end, when you stay as the second Copy. They should have had you swap to Copy 3 immediately and awaken on the Ark and then maybe have a post-credits scene with Simon panicking and Cath shutting down, to properly eliminate the "its a coin toss" discussion but I guess that might have fricked up the flow of the story.
Up until you become Copy 2 the entire game is a flashback. You are never not Copy 2 who has all of the memories of Simon and Copy 1.
Copy and paste and cut and paste are kinda the same thing actually. You just delete the original in the second option.
It's the teleporter dilemma all over again from star trek.
The answer to the teletransportation paradox has always been "Now neither of us will be virgins" end of paradox, everything else is just population control.
The purpose of life is to propagate itself. Why wouldn't I, as a human, not want humanity to continue in at least some fashion?
Life exists by propagating itself, but not for anything.
>Life exists by propagating itself, but not for anything.
every single thing living organisms do is to gather energy to secure the means to replicate itself.
The game opens up with you getting sucked into a different reality because you got a brain scan, so in the context of the game that example is demonstrably false. Once the "coin" is "flipped," there's potential for you to be the new consciousness that is created from that point simply remembering your past life, or there's potential for you to still be the original individual.
The context of the game is a narrative choice to switch character POV. It's functionally equivalent to you switching to the WAU's POV
If you ever upload your brain scan, it will create a second, independent you. It will think it's you, and from it's perspective it's correct, but you'll still be the meat
There will be a person that is You, but that's not necessarily (You). There was a Simon that experienced the rest of his life as a human, but you play as the Simon who "won the coin toss" and was implanted into a machine. The second Simon felt everything in the past as legitimately as his original self, as sure as you remember your own childhood. From his perspective, it was being "sucked" into the future.
No? Simon doesnt get sucked into the future he just gets activated there with his last memory being the scan with us the observer following him for the sake of the story
No? Simon doesnt get sucked into the future he just gets activated there with his last memory being the scan with us the observer following him for the sake of the story
I think I'm too drunk to follow what either of you are saying but one of you is right. The human Simon does the scan, then goes home and dies of his brain injury or dies in the impact. Then you wake up as Copy 1. But you arent sucked into anything.
No, there is no coin toss, fringy
Yes, Simon is a bit of a dummy for not understanding how the very simple concept of "copy and paste, not cut and paste" works, rags
Copy and paste and cut and paste are kinda the same thing actually. You just delete the original in the second option.
It's the teleporter dilemma all over again from star trek.
The important distinction is that in the former the original is retained. The Simon that sat down in the chair to be copied was always going to be the one that stayed in the chair and continue its existence. That Simon never managed to grasp that even after experiencing it first hand makes him a dummy, and for some reason calling Simon kind of stupid in that regard seems to trigger people that defend the game, making them insist that no he isn't stupid. That Simon doens't get it doesn't make the game or the character badly written, it just makes him a bit of a fricking idiot.
>it wasn't a coin toss >but we'll have you switch robot bodies anyway multiple times in the game to confuse you >haha frick you
SOMA sucks
if it wasn't a coin toss the game would have ended right at the start
you might be too moronic to get it. If the narrative didn't switch perspectives the game would have been about simon's last week or two alive in toronto as he died of a untreatable brain bleed.
>OS for the ark ( more like ACK! )was built by nu-woketards >Simon and Catherine try to have sex >account banned for explicit behavior, profiles deleted
From the perspective of the copy it is a coin toss.
If you found out you were copied this morning, then there's a 50% chance you're the copy. The clone would have the exact same memories and experiences as you. Neither of you could definitively claim to be the original. From Simon-2's perspective he's been the protagonist the whole game and he was simply lucky not to have been Simon-1 at the point of divergence.
The reason Simon-2 is dumb is because the coin toss only works in the past-tense. If I told you you were going to be copied tomorrow, then at this point in time you'd know you're the original.
From Ark Simon's perspective he was the one who launched the Ark and was lucky enough to continue his consciousness aboard it, even though logically he understands those memories belong to Simon-2. Knowing you're the copy doesn't mean you can just switch off being the person you think you are.
>If you found out you were copied this morning, then there's a 50% chance you're the copy.
No, there isn't. You sit in a chair in location A and then your next memory is being in a chair in location B. If that is your memory then you are the copy. There is no mystery about the process.
your example doesn't work for the situation. There is no luck involved, The person waking up in the other chair was always going to be the one who 'won' because that's how the process works.
>If you found out you were copied this morning, then there's a 50% chance you're the copy
No, there is an impossible to know (from the copy's perspective) factor, which is who the actual copy is. Just because this information is hidden does not mean the chance suddenly becomes 50% >Neither of you could definitively claim to be the original.
Correct >From Simon-2's perspective he's been the protagonist the whole game
Correct >he was simply lucky not to have been Simon-1
Wrong. That is that Simon being completely incapable of understanding what copy and paste is. Him being a moron does not suddenly make it a 50% chance he happened to succeed on. He is a copy of the original Simon Copy, he is not the "original" in any form provably. >If I told you you were going to be copied tomorrow, then at this point in time you'd know you're the original.
Not if you utilise the crew/simon's cope logic, which is illogical. If you were told you were going to be copied, then even if you follow the perspective of the copy, the copy would cope and think of some way to believe he is the "real" one as Simon did. It is incredibly difficult to accept as the clone that you are the clone, for the reasons youve put across as well. >even though logically he understands those memories belong to Simon-2
This is the crux of the issue. Even to the end he never truly computes it.
I always assumed that people choosing to keep the WAU around would be the consensus, but it's interesting reading your opinions here anons.
I would assume that keeping the WAU up with all of the fish experiments its doing is just as fair of a process at creating a new life as waiting out the evolution from basic life forms. Besides the ocean is so huge that even if the WAU goes on for a few hundred years and eventually starts breaking down and the experiment dies off, the ocean is so huge the rest of the planet will be largely unaffected.
I dunno, no game made me feel like shit quite like this one did, wonderful worldbuilding and just so many fantastic scenes. Even smaller events like the fricking tiny submarine screaming and shaking for it's life frick.
Did you lads delete Simon's data from the station? Did you guys unplug the one stuck in the non pressure suit?
>The "coin toss" is explained ingame as being a pure coping mechanism, stemming from the crew of the station giving into the complete delusion of "escaping" through their scan >Literally never made logical sense ever, and was never meant to, as the brain scan is purely a copy >The coinflip was also just a basis for the justification of suicide, as the "coinflip" becomes "guaranteed" if you have a nice day just after the brainscan. Which again, makes no logical sense and deifies the conciousness as some magical spirit that knows to go to a brain scan somehow once you die.
I thought this was pretty obvious to understand, youre given clear cut examples of this through out the game. And yet theres people in this thread getting confused and basing the "coin flip" off of the fact that you switch perspectives a few times throughout the game, despite the fact that
Its used purely as a coping mechanism for the main character, same as it became the final lifeline for the remaining crew.
Theres a reason Catherine doesnt even bring up the coin flip for the first transfer scene when Simon goes into the new suit capable of treading the abyss, because at that point she's hoping Simon can be rational enough to understand what the process is, its purely because of his extremely volatile reaction to realising "old simon" is still "alive" that she starts talking about the coin flip as a means of deluding him.
No, she told him that to keep him going. Nothing is transferred, your mind is copied.
I don't know why Simon is so moronic when she clearly kept telling him that. Also he at least gave humanity a second chance and killed the WAU. He can always kill himself too.
He's just delusional
Simon somehow being the only Canadian of his era incapable of understanding what file copying is
And he also has brain damage. Or at least the copy of him is based of a Canadian with brain damage.
He's like, twice as moronic. Probably voting Trudeau unironically.
They'd prob vote for him. But he died in the summer of 2015 anyways. Way before the Canadian federal elections .
>Died too early to vote Trudeau
>Died just in time to clone yourself 3+ times and experience a torment at the very edge of human comprehension
Living the life...
Dude had literal brain damage before he got scanned. And it's like the oldest scan ever so it's already a piece of shit.
The Ark saved nothing. It won't even stay in orbit for a decade before decaying and burning up.
Killing the wau actually ruins any chance for humanoid life on earth
I mean look at simon if the wau just brings everyone back like that it would be fine
Things take time and glowing ghost b***h is fish food anyway
Yeah, the WAU did nothing wrong. Sure, the in-progress work is horrifying, but it's making progress nonetheless, and it clearly has no ill-intent or designs of control on the minds it brings back. The fact that Simon was also able to be reconstructed from a scan done nearly a century ago is absolutely huge, and it reached that point in only a year. At that rate, another few years year would likely have seen a new race of Digi-Humans reclaiming the Earth, and actual organic humans would be in no way a pipe dream.
Meanwhile, Catherine's whole thing is just taking the WAU's own scanning technology, stealing credit for it, and then chucking the whole thing into space because reasons, and she doesn't care how many people she allows to go insane or kill themselves along the way if it means she gets what she wants.
And there's no telling what life in the ARK is going to be like, especially long term. What happens when couples want to have children? What happens after you've been with the same few dozen people for decades or even centuries? Honestly the ARK might end up being just as much, if not more of, a hellscape of mental torment than being part of he WAU's testing period is.
>Honestly the ARK might end up being just as much, if not more of, a hellscape of mental torment
Besides the whole "it was all a simulation" part this would be a decent setting for a Soma prequel. They could rework it as a 2013-era live test of volunteers who had their memories erased and who "wake up" on "the Ark" and the game follows the decaying relationships.
Here we go, we got the pitch for Soma II.
you just reset the whole thing every once in a while, otherwise you'd run out of memory eventually
some kind of groundhog's day where noone is bill murray
I think this scenario was also touched upon when you're fricking around with AI people trying to get information out of some guy, which kinda reminds me of that basketball game vhs scp
Yeah, the whole thing with being locked inside the ARK for possible-eternity as a preserved example of humanity would be a boring and existential hell. Granted, it's still a situation that has potential to evolve, as they have so much time to interact, reflect, and create, but it absolutely would be an immensely precarious emotional and mental ordeal to have to deal with, and frankly a lot of the crew seems moronic. That's half the reason I'd be hopeful over the WAU pulling scans from the rest of history, because a lot of everyone else was just as moronic as Simon--it's why so many gleefully killed themselves, and it's why I doubt they'd be able to deal with the trials and tribulations of being an immortal commune.
But who knows. Time loop/immortal communes are interesting concepts as well. I liked 2017's The Endless for dipping its toes into that.
You say this like the wau wasn't also creating a shitload of abominations. It'd be a double edged sword hellscape.
>You say this like the wau wasn't also creating a shitload of abominations
Sure, if you mean you stopped reading at the first sentence.
Nature itself also makes abominations, no biggie.
I'd have agreed with you before AI art became a thing and we witnessed it create abominations. Without human intervention to guide the AI it's going to continue creating deviations and learning from itself to create even worse abominations, especially with the increasingly limited and corrupted dataset of humans it has to pull from.
>without human intervention
Then it's a good thing the WAU has already started to perfectly recreate humans that could then intervene, lol, lmao
Nope 🙂
Simon literally intervenes despite being largely outside the system. You have the option to shut the entire thing down even and that's from a very limited and barely functional abomination.
>Also he at least gave humanity a second chance and killed the WAU
holy shit did you pay any attention at all? killing the WAU is killing the "second chance" that humanity has. The ark is not a second chance ,it's nothing. Its orbit will decay and it will fall into the sun ina few hundred years. The WAU is the only way even a semblance of humanity can ever reclaim the earth.
>Its orbit will decay and it will fall into the sun
that's not how orbits work
Every single orbit undergoes decay, even if its so small that you cannot measure it. I'm pretty sure the only way to avoid it is by having its orbit be tethered to two objects, like a Lagrange point but I'm not even sure if that prevents it completely.
it would take anything a moronic amount of time, way way way longer than the lifespan of the universe, for anything to fall into the sun just because of orbital decay
it's been a while since I last played but wasn't it set to orbit the sun, not the earth? Either way, its orbit will eventually decay and it will fall into whatever celestial body it is in orbit of.
>its orbit will eventually decay
ye in about 100,000,000,000,000,000 years
for reference the universe is 13,700,000,000 years old
low orbit and "orbiting the sun" are pretty different things
>aliens find the box a few centuries later
>they think it's just some saved data from an advanced video game
>they upload the memories of the people in it in the latest alien version of resident evil and play it on alien twitch to use them as smart npcs
It's more like 3 years until crashing back into the ocean, on LEO. On higher orbits it could survive solar radiation anywhere between 1 - 1000 years depending how far from Earth magnetosohere.
it's not orbiting earth
it will get destroyed by solar radiation for sure but that will happen way sooner than any other event imaginable
That is exactly how orbits work
Maybe humanity shouldn't reclaim the Earth moron. The whole game is proof of that.
What? I played it a fairly long time ago but I don't think earth got fricked because of humanity. Wasn't it an asteroid? How the frick do you take responsibility for that kind of shit?
Or are you talking about how the WAU is horrific as a last invention made by humans? I think it's better than nothing, and maybe letting it alone for a few centuries will allow the thing to go through a breakthrough and give birth to a new form of humanity.
Killing it is straight moronic. Just a way to make sure that nothing on earth is left behind and to turn it into a dead ball of dirt with only a few species of algaes, microbes and fishes living in the depths.
Frick that.
>with only a few species of algaes, microbes and fishes living in the depths
That's enough to start over.
Who cares?
>t. macroorganism
The purpose of life is to propagate itself. Why wouldn't I, as a human, not want humanity to continue in at least some fashion?
Yeah in a normal world. But seeing the absolute state of earth I doubt anything will come from it. The only form of life that might continue to develop will be deep under the sea where only primitive ultra specialized things can thrive. You're not getting a type V civilization out of this.
But...
Anon... That's literally how WE started...
Maybe from thermal vents.
There have been many extinction events where almost all biodiversity on earth is wiped out.
And that's how they propagate themselves.
All that any self-replicating structure does is replicate itself, a Virus doesn't fit most definitions of life, yet all it does is replicate itself. Prions and RNA structures also aren't alive but that's all they do.
Outpacing entropy breaking down the created structures is how you eventually get a structure that is complicated enough to do something beyond just replicating itself, one could almost say that the purpose of self-propagation is life if there weren't examples to the contrary that I just mentioned.
He's from Toronto.
Explain how much "free" canadian healthcare fricks him up
The WAU created Simon, and Simon is the only reason the ark gets launched at all. Humanity only "survives" because of the WAU.
He has literal brain damage. Same as some anons here that need it explaied every week for years.
You don't get it, cointoss is referring to somebody who "wins" the existence on the satellite
>You don't get it, cointoss is referring to something that doesn't rely on probability in any way
Alright.
I think catherine wanted to believe in it a little too. It's why she got so stressed out at the end. She was smart enough to know better, but she wanted to cling some little bit of hope.
Catherine was quite clearly completely at peace with being a digitized copy of her real self, she barely even reacted to learning about her original death.She got stressed out because she can't handle interpersonal conflict well and was stuck with a fricking idiot that just could not figure out something that should be very easy to grasp berating her and calling her a fricking lying traitorious b***h and all that.
>she barely even reacted to learning about her original death
Her reaction is just like simon's when he hears his former self and just treats it like an "other" that's not really him so doesn't really matter. To the present her that could've still been considered winning the coin toss. Simon flipped out on her before and she didn't blow a fuse or get emotional and start trying to insult him. I think some small part of her wanted to believe and she wasn't just lying to him. It was one of her scientist coworkers who gave her that idea anyway so even if she thought it was farfetched it still came from a reputable source.
I think it's more about getting some sort of meaning : she knew she was fricked either way, she reached her purpose then simon brought her back to her reality, ence the outburst
I agree that's mostly what she was going for yeah. It was to try and salvage the last remnants of humanity and that was a fulfilling enough purpose for her whereas for simon it was purely self preservation.
so why did a computer simulation of humanity have to be launched into space?
Idk, also what was the point of WAU besides body horror? The story ignores it near the end, and you can remove it entirely and just say "comet hit the earth, everything is fricked"
The game literally spells it to you why the WAU was there
I know it's purpose is to save humanity, I just think it's dumb
>what was the point of WAU besides body horror?
None, really. It's just there to justify the presence of monsters and weird shit, it's not a huge element in the plot. I don't even know why Simon would go through the trouble of trying to destroy it since he's planning to leave earth behind anyway.
> None, really. It's just there to justify the existance of monsters and weird shit
And the player as well.
You know, just small details like that.
It's a self improving ai so it may eventually bring everybody back the same way it successfully brought you back.
Though it would probably only be the case for whoever was lucky enough to have had a brain scan at some point.
I guess it is technically doing its job. It's the people who created it that didn't consider humanity being dead is better than being a cancerfied zombie monstrosity
>WAU
Its been like 7 years since I played but WAU's job was to preserve humanity, which it was doing in its own misguided (to us) way. It used what it had available to do so.
No?
The WAU's job was to fix structural damage to the station and preserve its original condition - that's all.
It's a repair nanobot swarm, essentially a synthetic janitor.
However, when it noticed all the crew were dying it freaked out and began deviating beyond the confines of its original programming - trying to 'fix' deceased organic life.
No, that's a coping mechanism in the truest sense.
It’s not like anyone was ever real anyways. Aside from a couple scientists who eventually succumbed, everyone is already dead with data simulating people.
Is there a more depressing game in existence? Even Lisa the painful isn't as grim.
I'd say Lisa is more depressing, but Soma's MC is left in a worse predicament by the end.
I don't know, there's people everywhere joking and fricking around, there's life, it's not as depressing as a world on automatic mode with everyone dead or on the verge of death and robots forever roaming the world slowly corrupted parading the memories and personalities of dead people like if they were still alive.
>that part underwater where you have to attack a scout robot who was helping you because you need batteries or whatever
>only fricking robot in the game acting friendly and sticking to you probably because it was starving for attention and company
Frick.
Literally no, also some fish have human face(s) on them, imagine your last memory being brainscanned and then found yourself stuck in a fish. That shit keeps me up at night better than the monsters.
I normally hate these noguns walking sim "horror" games but the anglerfish moment is so effective in this game that I will still recommend it to this day
I didn't play it for years because people kept labelling it a "walking horror" but it's only that technically, it feels nothing like the others in that genre and I hate the "rep" it carries.
tbh i'm a total pussy when it comes to horror games but for some reason soma never scared me
the diver was kinda creepy, i guess
Because the game is mediocre is almost every sense. Not even the people praising its story can think of good arguments to defend it.
Frick those monsters that have super hearing. They're scary the first time you encounter them, after that they slow down the game. Especially in Theta Maintenance.
A pretty soulful song
Nah, she was trying to let him down easy because he's a brain-damaged Leaf out of his element.
if they had this technology why didn't the entire world build huge underground server bunkers, like some kind of Horizon Zero Dawn automatic building facilities, upload everyone's mind into them have them live in paradise for a few hundred years, and then use the robots to terraform the world until they eventually could upload themselves back into augmented biorobits that look human but have huge wieners and never age or die while being linked to the servers in case they die like Altered Carbon.
Because they didn't have the resource and time for it, moron.
killing the WAU is a mistake; the odds of it being able to generate some kind of new half-organic sapient race able to survive in the ocean is pretty high
Life has survived space rocks crashing into Earth before, it doesn't need humans from the grave ruining it with super cancer.
It doesn't 'need' a goddamn thing.
Why should anybody care if life survives on earth if there isn't some form of humanity there to witness it?
They won't be humanity, maybe post humans at most. At best they'd be at least as intelligent as, but assuming WAU can self improve they would end up being much more intelligent than us.
Irrelevant.
Every single eco spiel or conservation movement has used the running mission statement of 'making sure the world is still good for our descendents', with no guaranteed descendants that goal is pointless.
Whether WAU succeeds or fails in recreating intelligent life, it is no business of the earth's biosphere whether it survives the process, nor the concern of extincted humankind whether they can feel good in their graves that they left a good inheritance to a cold, unfeeling universe.
Thanks Rick
Rick & Morty gays be like:
Humanity gets to have its last hurrah in the stars while the process of life begins on Earth over millions of years. Doing it naturally through evolution is better than WAU forcing everything to live.
It never was a cointoss and the only reason people think it is, is because the devs were moronic and inconsistent as to who you followed. You go from
Original Simon - Copy 1 - Copy 2 - (final transfer) - Stay in Copy 2.
For narrative purposes I guess you have to do that, but you always play as the copy right until the end, when you stay as the second Copy. They should have had you swap to Copy 3 immediately and awaken on the Ark and then maybe have a post-credits scene with Simon panicking and Cath shutting down, to properly eliminate the "its a coin toss" discussion but I guess that might have fricked up the flow of the story.
>It never was a cointoss and the only reason people think it is
Nobody's stupid enough to think it's a coin toss. It's only people trolling to get a thread rolling.
I didnt know, I avoided all the threads until I beat the game and by then they had died, this is my first Soma thread 🙁
why are women so attention seeking? just grab your shit and eat it at home b***h
There's something beautiful about a woman crying in public while stuffing her face full of fast food
it's fake btw, the bawds filming her just make it look like she's crying
Up until you become Copy 2 the entire game is a flashback. You are never not Copy 2 who has all of the memories of Simon and Copy 1.
The answer to the teletransportation paradox has always been "Now neither of us will be virgins" end of paradox, everything else is just population control.
Life exists by propagating itself, but not for anything.
>Life exists by propagating itself, but not for anything.
every single thing living organisms do is to gather energy to secure the means to replicate itself.
If somebody takes a picture of you does consciousness move to that pic? No.
It was a 0% chance
The game opens up with you getting sucked into a different reality because you got a brain scan, so in the context of the game that example is demonstrably false. Once the "coin" is "flipped," there's potential for you to be the new consciousness that is created from that point simply remembering your past life, or there's potential for you to still be the original individual.
The context of the game is a narrative choice to switch character POV. It's functionally equivalent to you switching to the WAU's POV
If you ever upload your brain scan, it will create a second, independent you. It will think it's you, and from it's perspective it's correct, but you'll still be the meat
There will be a person that is You, but that's not necessarily (You). There was a Simon that experienced the rest of his life as a human, but you play as the Simon who "won the coin toss" and was implanted into a machine. The second Simon felt everything in the past as legitimately as his original self, as sure as you remember your own childhood. From his perspective, it was being "sucked" into the future.
But Simon in the future is just a dead corpse with a robot head and wau attached. It's not real.
No? Simon doesnt get sucked into the future he just gets activated there with his last memory being the scan with us the observer following him for the sake of the story
I think I'm too drunk to follow what either of you are saying but one of you is right. The human Simon does the scan, then goes home and dies of his brain injury or dies in the impact. Then you wake up as Copy 1. But you arent sucked into anything.
>but suppose you throw a coin enough times... suppose one day, it lands on its edge
>there are anons that still dont understand the cointoss
holy fricking brainlets
yes, to him
the same way a literal coin toss is a metaphorical coin toss to you, you're just slightly less moronic
No, there is no coin toss, fringy
Yes, Simon is a bit of a dummy for not understanding how the very simple concept of "copy and paste, not cut and paste" works, rags
Copy and paste and cut and paste are kinda the same thing actually. You just delete the original in the second option.
It's the teleporter dilemma all over again from star trek.
The important distinction is that in the former the original is retained. The Simon that sat down in the chair to be copied was always going to be the one that stayed in the chair and continue its existence. That Simon never managed to grasp that even after experiencing it first hand makes him a dummy, and for some reason calling Simon kind of stupid in that regard seems to trigger people that defend the game, making them insist that no he isn't stupid. That Simon doens't get it doesn't make the game or the character badly written, it just makes him a bit of a fricking idiot.
What kind of coin did they use?
>it wasn't a coin toss
>but we'll have you switch robot bodies anyway multiple times in the game to confuse you
>haha frick you
SOMA sucks
if it wasn't a coin toss the game would have ended right at the start
you might be too moronic to get it. If the narrative didn't switch perspectives the game would have been about simon's last week or two alive in toronto as he died of a untreatable brain bleed.
Do you think ark-simon and ark-catherine banged in the ark?
>OS for the ark ( more like ACK! )was built by nu-woketards
>Simon and Catherine try to have sex
>account banned for explicit behavior, profiles deleted
Not sure how advanced the simulation is, but I'd expect constant clipping, invisible walls and all the other horrors we know from games.
From the perspective of the copy it is a coin toss.
If you found out you were copied this morning, then there's a 50% chance you're the copy. The clone would have the exact same memories and experiences as you. Neither of you could definitively claim to be the original. From Simon-2's perspective he's been the protagonist the whole game and he was simply lucky not to have been Simon-1 at the point of divergence.
The reason Simon-2 is dumb is because the coin toss only works in the past-tense. If I told you you were going to be copied tomorrow, then at this point in time you'd know you're the original.
From Ark Simon's perspective he was the one who launched the Ark and was lucky enough to continue his consciousness aboard it, even though logically he understands those memories belong to Simon-2. Knowing you're the copy doesn't mean you can just switch off being the person you think you are.
>If you found out you were copied this morning, then there's a 50% chance you're the copy.
No, there isn't. You sit in a chair in location A and then your next memory is being in a chair in location B. If that is your memory then you are the copy. There is no mystery about the process.
replying to a specific example and ignoring the rest of the post doesn't make you look intelligent
your example doesn't work for the situation. There is no luck involved, The person waking up in the other chair was always going to be the one who 'won' because that's how the process works.
>If you found out you were copied this morning, then there's a 50% chance you're the copy
No, there is an impossible to know (from the copy's perspective) factor, which is who the actual copy is. Just because this information is hidden does not mean the chance suddenly becomes 50%
>Neither of you could definitively claim to be the original.
Correct
>From Simon-2's perspective he's been the protagonist the whole game
Correct
>he was simply lucky not to have been Simon-1
Wrong. That is that Simon being completely incapable of understanding what copy and paste is. Him being a moron does not suddenly make it a 50% chance he happened to succeed on. He is a copy of the original Simon Copy, he is not the "original" in any form provably.
>If I told you you were going to be copied tomorrow, then at this point in time you'd know you're the original.
Not if you utilise the crew/simon's cope logic, which is illogical. If you were told you were going to be copied, then even if you follow the perspective of the copy, the copy would cope and think of some way to believe he is the "real" one as Simon did. It is incredibly difficult to accept as the clone that you are the clone, for the reasons youve put across as well.
>even though logically he understands those memories belong to Simon-2
This is the crux of the issue. Even to the end he never truly computes it.
I always assumed that people choosing to keep the WAU around would be the consensus, but it's interesting reading your opinions here anons.
I would assume that keeping the WAU up with all of the fish experiments its doing is just as fair of a process at creating a new life as waiting out the evolution from basic life forms. Besides the ocean is so huge that even if the WAU goes on for a few hundred years and eventually starts breaking down and the experiment dies off, the ocean is so huge the rest of the planet will be largely unaffected.
I dunno, no game made me feel like shit quite like this one did, wonderful worldbuilding and just so many fantastic scenes. Even smaller events like the fricking tiny submarine screaming and shaking for it's life frick.
Did you lads delete Simon's data from the station? Did you guys unplug the one stuck in the non pressure suit?
>The "coin toss" is explained ingame as being a pure coping mechanism, stemming from the crew of the station giving into the complete delusion of "escaping" through their scan
>Literally never made logical sense ever, and was never meant to, as the brain scan is purely a copy
>The coinflip was also just a basis for the justification of suicide, as the "coinflip" becomes "guaranteed" if you have a nice day just after the brainscan. Which again, makes no logical sense and deifies the conciousness as some magical spirit that knows to go to a brain scan somehow once you die.
I thought this was pretty obvious to understand, youre given clear cut examples of this through out the game. And yet theres people in this thread getting confused and basing the "coin flip" off of the fact that you switch perspectives a few times throughout the game, despite the fact that
Its used purely as a coping mechanism for the main character, same as it became the final lifeline for the remaining crew.
Theres a reason Catherine doesnt even bring up the coin flip for the first transfer scene when Simon goes into the new suit capable of treading the abyss, because at that point she's hoping Simon can be rational enough to understand what the process is, its purely because of his extremely volatile reaction to realising "old simon" is still "alive" that she starts talking about the coin flip as a means of deluding him.
Why didn't the homie from the short film realize he was drinking WAUcum instead of coffee
Finally a NOT GTA6 thread. Holy frick is GTA the fricking pest nowadays