Only if the DM allows it, and if the DM allows it they're either done with the game, out they'll let Pun-Pun power max up, then yank him away once he's at full power because he's now so ultra powerful that he no longer cares about whatever petty thing the party's currently involved in and fricks off to somewhere else in the multiverse, roll a new character.
This. In the end you can only really do that which the group, mostly the DM, accepts at the table.
Also, as
*Oh, technically you don't need to be a kobold or a paladin or Pazuzu or the candle of invocation, that's just the fastest way to get Pun Pun. All you really need is to qualify as a scalykind race, and have access to Sarrukhs.
It is worth noting that even the original creator of Pun Pun said that he didn't think anyone should actually PLAY Pun Pun, and that any campaign with Pun Pun wouldn't be very fun. Pun Pun exists as a thought experiment, nothing more.
mentioned, PunPun is pure TO, it's not a "build".
Kind of like the that 1d2 crusader.
Does it work RAW? Yeah, I think, but there are very little games where it would make sense to play such an abomination.
This is why powergamers are so moronic. They can't ever roleplay their way out of a situation, it has to be mechanical for them. Find a fricking library and spend enough time & perhaps money reading every book you find about Paizuri, no stupid knowlege check will be neccesary.
Knowledge checks should be banned, they are such a bloody cheatcode.
>Find a fricking library and spend enough time & perhaps money reading every book you find about Paizuri, no stupid knowlege check will be neccesary. >Knowledge check about Paizuri
what's the degree of scaling success for that? Asking for research purposes
The core of Pun Pun is all 1st Party. Specifically you just need a kobold (Monster Manual) Paladin (Player’s Handbook) with knowledge of Pazuzu (Fiendish Codex I) and Sarrukhs (Serpent Kingdoms). All of these are 1st-party books published by Wizards of the Coast. It does necessarily limit Pun Pun to the Forgotten Realms, though.
*Oh, technically you don't need to be a kobold or a paladin or Pazuzu or the candle of invocation, that's just the fastest way to get Pun Pun. All you really need is to qualify as a scalykind race, and have access to Sarrukhs.
It is worth noting that even the original creator of Pun Pun said that he didn't think anyone should actually PLAY Pun Pun, and that any campaign with Pun Pun wouldn't be very fun. Pun Pun exists as a thought experiment, nothing more.
Only if the DM allows it, and if the DM allows it they're either done with the game, out they'll let Pun-Pun power max up, then yank him away once he's at full power because he's now so ultra powerful that he no longer cares about whatever petty thing the party's currently involved in and fricks off to somewhere else in the multiverse, roll a new character.
Divine Minion is an npc template, explicitly not for PCs. It specifically requires your DM to give the go ahead to use material not available to the players by RAW.
Divine Minion is just one specific thing that Pun Pun can do. The actual heart of the character is the Sarrukh’s Manipulate Form ability and the ability to turn into a Sarrukh while being a scalykind and having a scalykind familiar. All that’s actually needed, then, is the Core Rulebooks and Serpent Kingdoms, nothing else.
If nothing else than Pun Pun works as a sorcerer or wizard at 17th level once he gets access to the PHB 9th level spell Shapechange, at which point he can unquestionably turn into a full Sarrukh and get all Sarrukh abilities including Manipulate Form, and share that spell with his viper familiar so the familiar can also be a Sarrukh. That’s all that’s really needed, everything else is just figuring out ways to become a full Sarrukh earlier, or after that point, finding all sorts of juicy abilities to copy.
It was more of a thought experiment than an actual build. Not a single DM would ever actually allow it.
Not only that but the actual guy who made it recommended against it actually being played or allowed. Pun Pun was a thought experiment, not a build.
>at which point he can unquestionably turn into a full Sarrukh
A 17th level wizard is not a 'full' Sarrukh though, merely a 17th level wizard who uses the shapechange spell to change his type.
>You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form
Manipulate Form is a Supernatural ability, so the 17th level wizard definitely gets it if it shapechanges into a Sarrukh.
>A 17th level wizard is not a 'full' Sarrukh though
That's...actually better for the kobold, then? Manipulate Form specifies that a Sarrukh cannot use it on a Sarrukh ("Sarrukh are immune to this effect"). If the kobold spellcaster is not a "real" Sarrukh but is instead still considered a kobold, then the kobold spellcaster will be free to use Manipualte Form on itself because a kobold is expressly among the "Scaled One" races that can be targeted by Manipulate Form.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> At will, a sarrukh can modify the form of any Scaled One
But he's not a sarrukh, sure he gains the supernatural ability manipulate form it's just that manipulate form doesn't do anything because he's not a sarrukh. He's a 17th level wizard shapechanged in to the likeness of one.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I never read Shape Change
We can tell.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I never read Shape Change >We can tell.
First of all there is no 'we'. Typing we in a sentence does not necessarily engender support for your viewpoint from others. Neither is there an assumption that the underlying implication of your viewpoint is commonly held. It also comes over weak as frick, almost as if you are inclined to insinuate others hold your viewpoint to provide it with validity.
Secondly, I've read shapechange many times actually the last time was five minutes ago before responding to you in order to doubly revise that my previous notion is correct. I'm aware shapechange provides >all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form.
However D&D is a game of exceptions, especially in D&D 3.5. A general rule takes precedence wherever an exception isn't present, in which case the exception takes precedence. In the special abilities index of which supernatural abilities are a components you will note that they are written generically, non specific to whoever happens to be using them. This is not true in the case of manipulate form which instead applies to the sarrukh this is the exception to the general rule. When your 17th level wizard casts shapechange and tranforms in to a sarrukh he acquires the manipulate form supernatural ability however it does not do anything because he is not a sarrukh instead he is a wizard shapechanged in to one.
On top of Divine Minion being illegal to PCs, it requires a favorable and not RAW interpretation of the rules to qualify for Master of Many Forms. The Divine Minion template grants the ability to wildshape as an 11th level Druid. Pun Pun requires the DM to interpret this ability as access to the Wild Shape Druid class feature; it is not the Druid class feature, it imitates the feature.
others point out the divine minion thing, but also core to the failure is that manipulate form doesn't just let you dumpster dive for every sla, ex or su ability in every published source and arbitrarily give it to yourself or a target. what that part of manipulate form actually does is let you grant "an" ability of types sla, ex or su from [undefined] and therefore by the actual present text there are no abilities to grant. What people mistakenly do all the time is interpret the [undefined] to instead be a set including everything ever written with the mentioned tags, basically replacing "an" with "any." Punpun goes ahead with "well, the rules don't say it 'doesn't' work like this," with multiple foundational conceits.
The only thing the build has going for it that actually works according to the written text for what it supposedly abuses is arbitrarily high str and con scores.
I'd say they could grant any supernatural, extraordinary, or spell-like ability that any scaled one can naturally possess. Although that's just an internal logic thing.
They're supposed to be the creators of the scaled ones so ostensibly any ability that a scaled one can manifest they should be able to provide to them.
Although this is still an absurd amount of abilities it cuts off some of the abuse of Pun-Pun like the tattooed monk stuff.
Although the real answer is Manipulate Form is an ability that's designed for the DM to use and they just forgot about Shapechange when they wrote it I'm sure.
3rd/3.5 doesn't have a split between what is allowed for PCs and NPCs. If it exists anyone can have it so long as they meet the prerequisites.
I can't ignore this because it's kind of dumb but templates are explicitly for modifying creatures their use for low level PCs is entirely an interpretation of the playerbase and not the actual rules as intended.
As evidence of this the Dragon Disciple prestige class only grants a template after taking 10 levels in the class.
Furthermore there are several NPC classes in 3rd/3.5 which are printed in the DM's guide not the Player's Handbook so kind of defeats your point as well.
>I never read Shape Change >We can tell.
First of all there is no 'we'. Typing we in a sentence does not necessarily engender support for your viewpoint from others. Neither is there an assumption that the underlying implication of your viewpoint is commonly held. It also comes over weak as frick, almost as if you are inclined to insinuate others hold your viewpoint to provide it with validity.
Secondly, I've read shapechange many times actually the last time was five minutes ago before responding to you in order to doubly revise that my previous notion is correct. I'm aware shapechange provides >all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form.
However D&D is a game of exceptions, especially in D&D 3.5. A general rule takes precedence wherever an exception isn't present, in which case the exception takes precedence. In the special abilities index of which supernatural abilities are a components you will note that they are written generically, non specific to whoever happens to be using them. This is not true in the case of manipulate form which instead applies to the sarrukh this is the exception to the general rule. When your 17th level wizard casts shapechange and tranforms in to a sarrukh he acquires the manipulate form supernatural ability however it does not do anything because he is not a sarrukh instead he is a wizard shapechanged in to one.
You're actually just wrong here because you're using the SRD. Every monster statblock in the actual books refers to the monster by name when writing out any supernatural or extraordinary ability.
By your logic you wouldn't be able to use any of the extraordinary or supernatural abilities because "you're not actually the creature you're just a wizard shapechanged into that creature"
Pic related for proof I also made sure to choose abilities that were under that index just to be sure but feel free to double check.
>You're actually just wrong here because you're using the SRD.
AKCHUALLY no I'm not. If you don't understand what you're talking about please refrain from commenting. All special abilities including spell like / supernatural / extraordinary. can be found in the DMG. Your picrel in both cases is on p.290
Alright fair enough I looked up the special abilities index and only got the SRD as a source I wasn't aware it was directly copied from the DMG.
However it doesn't change the fact that if your interpretation is correct suddenly every single statblock that has the creature refer to itself is an exception to the general rule presented in the DMG, because that is all the Manipulate Form ability is doing.
Unless you believe it only applies to abilities not in that index which doesn't make much sense but fair enough.
If that's the case though it leaves out a bunch of other options for shapechange now because they aren't described in that index.
Basically any semi-unique attacks or movement abilities that aren't specified on there.
I think you're really only taking exception because Manipulate Form is a really powerful ability which makes sense.
I can't stop you from using your interpretation of the rules though. I was merely arguing from a RAW side.
But I apologize for being ungenerous in my post and assuming you were pulling things from the SRD rather than their original source that's on me.
the section immediately following the original writeup for manipulate form goes on to provide a pretty limited possible set for the sla/ex/su abilities it can be used to grant, and they're all effectively flavor text like having a natural attack. Even allowing just specifically scaled one derived abilities is beyond the first presented limit for what abilities it could potentially grant are.
None of those alterations are sla, ex, or su abilities those are all specified as physical alterations that modify the base creatures physical features.
Abilities that are SLA, ex, or su are always marked as such.
But I do agree it's a good baseline for the relative power of what modifications DMs could grant.
I don't know why people are so hung up on this though it's not like anyone here intends to try to recreate Pun-Pun and any sensible DM will just veto turning into a Sarrukh, using Manipulate Form, or all of the above.
But people like to argue RAW I guess. I mean Hell, I'm one of the ones doing it as well.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>if your interpretation is correct suddenly every single statblock that has the creature refer to itself is an exception to the general rule presented in the DMG,
You'll note in stat blocks often special qualities often don't elaborate because it is expected the DM has access to the DMG, special qualities are listed in the monster manual also. Sometimes a special quality works differently and in this case will be noted in the creature's write up.
the section immediately following the original writeup for manipulate form goes on to provide a pretty limited possible set for the sla/ex/su abilities it can be used to grant, and they're all effectively flavor text like having a natural attack. Even allowing just specifically scaled one derived abilities is beyond the first presented limit for what abilities it could potentially grant are.
>TYPICAL physical alterations that Sarrukh OFTEN bestow >hard limit
ok moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
possible limit, dude. As stated the actual ability writeup's limit is [undefined] because it's a DM tool to have the sarrukh be experimenting to make goofy snake abominations, it doesn't give anyone with the ability carte blanche to grant everything they touch beholder lasers if they shape change to a sarrukh in the vacuum of charop. The presented set under the TYPICAL and OFTEN phrase you so cleverly discovered is providing an example set of the things it "should" do in a game if it gets used. Punpun still doesn't work when read as written because that part of the ability does nothing without being defined in a specific game. You can have it grant whatever the frick you want running a game, but at that point Punpun is explicitly "this character build is good because my table let me have godhood and every ability because I asked nicely"
Infinite loop exploit allowing you to have indefinitely high stats if you actually find a GM that a)is strictly RAW and won't tell you to cut out with that bullshit and b)agrees with your reading of the rules.
Pun pun was an infamous character build back in 3E made to show off how broken the system could be if exploited correctly. With a fully statted Pun Pun character you could essentially one shot any of the stated creatures in the monster manuals, even the deity avatars. ''You don't frick with Pun Pun'' was a common phrase tied to the build.
no dm allowed that horseshit and banned players that even started to reason in the mtg way requyired to arrive at the conclusion that any of that shit was ever valid for half a second.
My explanation for this is it's even remotely feasible to do, someone has already done it, and the second you start trying you get erased from existence because the current Pun-Pun doesn't want competition.
Didn't punpun require some expensive magic item? What happens when your DM dunks on you and says lol Pazuzu doesn't exist in this world s not Exorcist 2
It requires so much contrived hoop jumping and such DM complicity and rule bending, that it cannot really be said to be a powerful build any more than 'random character that finds a scroll of unlimited wish at level 1' can be called a 'build'.
lol pun pun
he can be defeated when le bard rolls a neat twenny on seduction.
>kid named finger
xd
A guy in my group tried this but didn't pass the knowledge (planes) check to know about pazuzu
Hah.
This. In the end you can only really do that which the group, mostly the DM, accepts at the table.
Also, as
mentioned, PunPun is pure TO, it's not a "build".
Kind of like the that 1d2 crusader.
Does it work RAW? Yeah, I think, but there are very little games where it would make sense to play such an abomination.
This is why powergamers are so moronic. They can't ever roleplay their way out of a situation, it has to be mechanical for them. Find a fricking library and spend enough time & perhaps money reading every book you find about Paizuri, no stupid knowlege check will be neccesary.
Knowledge checks should be banned, they are such a bloody cheatcode.
>Find a fricking library and spend enough time & perhaps money reading every book you find about Paizuri, no stupid knowlege check will be neccesary.
>Knowledge check about Paizuri
what's the degree of scaling success for that? Asking for research purposes
about 67, scaling to 351 with the usual meta modifier for trying to do something arbitrary with no in-character reason
>hey dm I have this amazing idea for a character Can I use all these 3rd party books
>"No"
The core of Pun Pun is all 1st Party. Specifically you just need a kobold (Monster Manual) Paladin (Player’s Handbook) with knowledge of Pazuzu (Fiendish Codex I) and Sarrukhs (Serpent Kingdoms). All of these are 1st-party books published by Wizards of the Coast. It does necessarily limit Pun Pun to the Forgotten Realms, though.
*Oh, technically you don't need to be a kobold or a paladin or Pazuzu or the candle of invocation, that's just the fastest way to get Pun Pun. All you really need is to qualify as a scalykind race, and have access to Sarrukhs.
It is worth noting that even the original creator of Pun Pun said that he didn't think anyone should actually PLAY Pun Pun, and that any campaign with Pun Pun wouldn't be very fun. Pun Pun exists as a thought experiment, nothing more.
And the core of a table is wood but you still need nails.
The entire thing required a very permissive DM, but iirc, at least one part of it required a RAW-noncompliant ruling.
Only if the DM allows it, and if the DM allows it they're either done with the game, out they'll let Pun-Pun power max up, then yank him away once he's at full power because he's now so ultra powerful that he no longer cares about whatever petty thing the party's currently involved in and fricks off to somewhere else in the multiverse, roll a new character.
>Was Punpun really that powerful?
By RAW?
Yes, but it's one of those white room cases
Repost a larger image or I'm accusing you of being a pixie.
Punpun has never worked, it doesn't required a permissive DM, it literally just doesn't work.
Point out specifically where it doesn’t work.
Divine Minion is an npc template, explicitly not for PCs. It specifically requires your DM to give the go ahead to use material not available to the players by RAW.
Divine Minion is just one specific thing that Pun Pun can do. The actual heart of the character is the Sarrukh’s Manipulate Form ability and the ability to turn into a Sarrukh while being a scalykind and having a scalykind familiar. All that’s actually needed, then, is the Core Rulebooks and Serpent Kingdoms, nothing else.
If nothing else than Pun Pun works as a sorcerer or wizard at 17th level once he gets access to the PHB 9th level spell Shapechange, at which point he can unquestionably turn into a full Sarrukh and get all Sarrukh abilities including Manipulate Form, and share that spell with his viper familiar so the familiar can also be a Sarrukh. That’s all that’s really needed, everything else is just figuring out ways to become a full Sarrukh earlier, or after that point, finding all sorts of juicy abilities to copy.
Not only that but the actual guy who made it recommended against it actually being played or allowed. Pun Pun was a thought experiment, not a build.
>at which point he can unquestionably turn into a full Sarrukh
A 17th level wizard is not a 'full' Sarrukh though, merely a 17th level wizard who uses the shapechange spell to change his type.
>You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form
Manipulate Form is a Supernatural ability, so the 17th level wizard definitely gets it if it shapechanges into a Sarrukh.
>A 17th level wizard is not a 'full' Sarrukh though
That's...actually better for the kobold, then? Manipulate Form specifies that a Sarrukh cannot use it on a Sarrukh ("Sarrukh are immune to this effect"). If the kobold spellcaster is not a "real" Sarrukh but is instead still considered a kobold, then the kobold spellcaster will be free to use Manipualte Form on itself because a kobold is expressly among the "Scaled One" races that can be targeted by Manipulate Form.
> At will, a sarrukh can modify the form of any Scaled One
But he's not a sarrukh, sure he gains the supernatural ability manipulate form it's just that manipulate form doesn't do anything because he's not a sarrukh. He's a 17th level wizard shapechanged in to the likeness of one.
>I never read Shape Change
We can tell.
>I never read Shape Change
>We can tell.
First of all there is no 'we'. Typing we in a sentence does not necessarily engender support for your viewpoint from others. Neither is there an assumption that the underlying implication of your viewpoint is commonly held. It also comes over weak as frick, almost as if you are inclined to insinuate others hold your viewpoint to provide it with validity.
Secondly, I've read shapechange many times actually the last time was five minutes ago before responding to you in order to doubly revise that my previous notion is correct. I'm aware shapechange provides
>all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form.
However D&D is a game of exceptions, especially in D&D 3.5. A general rule takes precedence wherever an exception isn't present, in which case the exception takes precedence. In the special abilities index of which supernatural abilities are a components you will note that they are written generically, non specific to whoever happens to be using them. This is not true in the case of manipulate form which instead applies to the sarrukh this is the exception to the general rule. When your 17th level wizard casts shapechange and tranforms in to a sarrukh he acquires the manipulate form supernatural ability however it does not do anything because he is not a sarrukh instead he is a wizard shapechanged in to one.
Thank you for proving me right.
3rd/3.5 doesn't have a split between what is allowed for PCs and NPCs. If it exists anyone can have it so long as they meet the prerequisites.
On top of Divine Minion being illegal to PCs, it requires a favorable and not RAW interpretation of the rules to qualify for Master of Many Forms. The Divine Minion template grants the ability to wildshape as an 11th level Druid. Pun Pun requires the DM to interpret this ability as access to the Wild Shape Druid class feature; it is not the Druid class feature, it imitates the feature.
others point out the divine minion thing, but also core to the failure is that manipulate form doesn't just let you dumpster dive for every sla, ex or su ability in every published source and arbitrarily give it to yourself or a target. what that part of manipulate form actually does is let you grant "an" ability of types sla, ex or su from [undefined] and therefore by the actual present text there are no abilities to grant. What people mistakenly do all the time is interpret the [undefined] to instead be a set including everything ever written with the mentioned tags, basically replacing "an" with "any." Punpun goes ahead with "well, the rules don't say it 'doesn't' work like this," with multiple foundational conceits.
The only thing the build has going for it that actually works according to the written text for what it supposedly abuses is arbitrarily high str and con scores.
I'd say they could grant any supernatural, extraordinary, or spell-like ability that any scaled one can naturally possess. Although that's just an internal logic thing.
They're supposed to be the creators of the scaled ones so ostensibly any ability that a scaled one can manifest they should be able to provide to them.
Although this is still an absurd amount of abilities it cuts off some of the abuse of Pun-Pun like the tattooed monk stuff.
Although the real answer is Manipulate Form is an ability that's designed for the DM to use and they just forgot about Shapechange when they wrote it I'm sure.
I can't ignore this because it's kind of dumb but templates are explicitly for modifying creatures their use for low level PCs is entirely an interpretation of the playerbase and not the actual rules as intended.
As evidence of this the Dragon Disciple prestige class only grants a template after taking 10 levels in the class.
Furthermore there are several NPC classes in 3rd/3.5 which are printed in the DM's guide not the Player's Handbook so kind of defeats your point as well.
You're actually just wrong here because you're using the SRD. Every monster statblock in the actual books refers to the monster by name when writing out any supernatural or extraordinary ability.
By your logic you wouldn't be able to use any of the extraordinary or supernatural abilities because "you're not actually the creature you're just a wizard shapechanged into that creature"
Pic related for proof I also made sure to choose abilities that were under that index just to be sure but feel free to double check.
>You're actually just wrong here because you're using the SRD.
AKCHUALLY no I'm not. If you don't understand what you're talking about please refrain from commenting. All special abilities including spell like / supernatural / extraordinary. can be found in the DMG. Your picrel in both cases is on p.290
Alright fair enough I looked up the special abilities index and only got the SRD as a source I wasn't aware it was directly copied from the DMG.
However it doesn't change the fact that if your interpretation is correct suddenly every single statblock that has the creature refer to itself is an exception to the general rule presented in the DMG, because that is all the Manipulate Form ability is doing.
Unless you believe it only applies to abilities not in that index which doesn't make much sense but fair enough.
If that's the case though it leaves out a bunch of other options for shapechange now because they aren't described in that index.
Basically any semi-unique attacks or movement abilities that aren't specified on there.
I think you're really only taking exception because Manipulate Form is a really powerful ability which makes sense.
I can't stop you from using your interpretation of the rules though. I was merely arguing from a RAW side.
But I apologize for being ungenerous in my post and assuming you were pulling things from the SRD rather than their original source that's on me.
None of those alterations are sla, ex, or su abilities those are all specified as physical alterations that modify the base creatures physical features.
Abilities that are SLA, ex, or su are always marked as such.
But I do agree it's a good baseline for the relative power of what modifications DMs could grant.
I don't know why people are so hung up on this though it's not like anyone here intends to try to recreate Pun-Pun and any sensible DM will just veto turning into a Sarrukh, using Manipulate Form, or all of the above.
But people like to argue RAW I guess. I mean Hell, I'm one of the ones doing it as well.
>if your interpretation is correct suddenly every single statblock that has the creature refer to itself is an exception to the general rule presented in the DMG,
You'll note in stat blocks often special qualities often don't elaborate because it is expected the DM has access to the DMG, special qualities are listed in the monster manual also. Sometimes a special quality works differently and in this case will be noted in the creature's write up.
the section immediately following the original writeup for manipulate form goes on to provide a pretty limited possible set for the sla/ex/su abilities it can be used to grant, and they're all effectively flavor text like having a natural attack. Even allowing just specifically scaled one derived abilities is beyond the first presented limit for what abilities it could potentially grant are.
>TYPICAL physical alterations that Sarrukh OFTEN bestow
>hard limit
ok moron
possible limit, dude. As stated the actual ability writeup's limit is [undefined] because it's a DM tool to have the sarrukh be experimenting to make goofy snake abominations, it doesn't give anyone with the ability carte blanche to grant everything they touch beholder lasers if they shape change to a sarrukh in the vacuum of charop. The presented set under the TYPICAL and OFTEN phrase you so cleverly discovered is providing an example set of the things it "should" do in a game if it gets used. Punpun still doesn't work when read as written because that part of the ability does nothing without being defined in a specific game. You can have it grant whatever the frick you want running a game, but at that point Punpun is explicitly "this character build is good because my table let me have godhood and every ability because I asked nicely"
so is someone going to explain what Pun Pun is for those of us that dont play DnD
Pun Pun isn't D&D. It's 3e.
Infinite loop exploit allowing you to have indefinitely high stats if you actually find a GM that a)is strictly RAW and won't tell you to cut out with that bullshit and b)agrees with your reading of the rules.
Pun pun was an infamous character build back in 3E made to show off how broken the system could be if exploited correctly. With a fully statted Pun Pun character you could essentially one shot any of the stated creatures in the monster manuals, even the deity avatars. ''You don't frick with Pun Pun'' was a common phrase tied to the build.
It was more of a thought experiment than an actual build. Not a single DM would ever actually allow it.
A meme with giant sized holes in it. Even acquiring the sarrukh ability requires the DM to be on board with a highly interpretive reading of it.
no dm allowed that horseshit and banned players that even started to reason in the mtg way requyired to arrive at the conclusion that any of that shit was ever valid for half a second.
My explanation for this is it's even remotely feasible to do, someone has already done it, and the second you start trying you get erased from existence because the current Pun-Pun doesn't want competition.
Didn't punpun require some expensive magic item? What happens when your DM dunks on you and says lol Pazuzu doesn't exist in this world s not Exorcist 2
Pun Pun Kill Chan
It works just as well as the peasant rail gun.
It requires so much contrived hoop jumping and such DM complicity and rule bending, that it cannot really be said to be a powerful build any more than 'random character that finds a scroll of unlimited wish at level 1' can be called a 'build'.