or the fact that I wouldn't go to Cucks R Us and instead go to The Warehouse and buy what was on sale. I got FF Mystic Quest for 15 dollars, and it was the first real JRPG I ever played and got me hooked.
Since the Wherehouse's big thing was you can listen to music before buying and they had game kiosks all over, they didn't care that some little kid was writing down Mortal Kombat codes and moves on a pamplet from a magazine.
I remember being a kid and when we went to town my mom would say "we need gas" and I would go "there's a gas station" and she would say "not there, I'm not paying 99 cents a gallon."
Whats also not shown are the other games that are from $30 to $40 and $50 nor the store that this was because every store sold the games for different prices.
But I know what this is from, this is from the SEARS magazine, which always listed shit much higher.
>$100 for the snes at that point. >$19 for a controller.
>big friggin plastic cartridge which contains a full on PCB powered by a battery if your game supported saves. In some cases said PCB contained hardware capable of generating 3D backgrounds (mode 7) >a cool looking box that your mom would simply throw away anyways >manual included
Meanwhile morons are charging $70 for digital goods.
Mode 7 was a graphics mode of the base hardware, it wasn't dependent on a special chip. A few games like Mario Kart used mode 7 in conjunction with a DSP which was an add-on chip. The SFX, CX4 and SA1 were also add-on chips that were used in a few games
why buy a game in this era when you could rent it for a week beat it return it and then when you got the urge to play it again, you just go back to blockbuster i didnt know many people who owned games before N64/PS1
They thought people would criticize its simple graphics and presentation compared to what other RPGs were doing at the time and included the player's guide and the scratch and sniff stuff that probably ended up making it even more expensive which also made the box way bigger than necessary which would've taken up more shelf space making retailers more hesitant to display it on top of that. Really kind of botched marketing all around.
>Complete game bought with no day 1 patch
Besides that, rental stores were still a thing and used stores were gaining traction. My parents rarely bought me a game brand spanking new unless it was for birthdays or holidays. We just fricking rented.
kys
snes costs back then were higher because packaging was huge, cartridges were expensive, all games had expansive manuals, etc
now all you get is a cheap plastic box with a download code and frick all if you pay for the standard edition and dlc for an ingame golden dildo so everyone can see you are a homosexual and devs want us to pay snes prices for something we cannot even sell afterwards if we dont like it
get the frick out of here
>games also used to come in huge boxes with manuals
My favorite thing to do back in the day when I got a new game was open it up in the car and read the manual on the ride home.
This was a significant reason that Nintendo lost major ground in the 64 era. N64 games were still $70-$80 while Playstation games were $40-$50, making it a lot more realistic to own a good amount of games rather than relying on renting/sales.
Nintendo's cartridges cost substantially more to manufacture than CDs, plus they charged a higher royalty per game sold. Sony made a bunch of shrewd decisions with the original Playstation and PS2 that allowed them to dominate the console market in the 90's and early 00's, it wasn't even a competition.
PSone games were cheaper not because they were inherently a CD and that it was cheaper but because Sony owned the patent or something along those lines which allowed them to produce them at a cheaper cost
>PSone games were cheaper not because they were inherently a CD and that it was cheaper
the average cost to manufacture a single cartridge was like $5-$6 depending on the features of the cartridge (battery backup, rom size, etc.), cost to manufacture a CD was 10¢. Tell me more about how it wasn't because CDs were cheaper.
Sony owning the patent has relatively little to do with it. Saturn games also tended to be in the same range as Playstation games, and eventually Dreamcast games did as well, while N64 games were typically +$20 more expensive minimum.
I mean compare these prices. Sure N64 was around 100 bucks cheaper for the console. But After 3 games you made your money back on PS1 (and that's assuming you didn't pirate like many did)
Are you moronic or just pretending to be? Those games were released as-is, carts could have been rereleased later with updates but other than that you didn't have to pay for content that should have been in the base game.
Interesting how close in price the old cartridge consoles were to their games. The mass adoption of the CD really saved people from spending absurd amounts on games.
It's funny to me that as much as I hate Snoys, I was a big PS fan in the 90's/early 00's.
I was so fricking excited to play Twisted Metal Black at my friend's house, you have no idea.
Now Sony has been gay movie games for longer than they were good. Sad, but time marches on.
>I know now that I dodged a bullet but I used to be so jealous of people who could play Virtua-On at home
>Western games=all terrible aside from Vectorman >japanese games=only few are even listed
I think in the late 90s, PC and console really slugged it out evenly in terms of God Tier games, but there was always this weird aversion to just admitting Japan dominated console gaming. I remember Secret of Evermore's big selling point being "IT'S BY US AND NOT THE MOON PEOPLE"
When Japan let westerners control the industry is when gaming went to shit, its not that complex to understand, western console games in the 90s were rarely ever good because they focused on the wrong things and generally had terrible artists and composers
You know this isn't true, right?
I don't know why this kid decided to just make shit up though.
Mortal Kombat was only in vogue because it was extremely violent, as a fighting game series it sucked for decades, only in recent days it is at least respectable.
It still had a dedicated competitive scene, especially between MK2 until MKT, and it didn't start to crumble until MK4 (which still also had its players as well).
UMK3 has a very historied fighting game scene, but to reduce it to "a joke" because the game never took off in Japan is wild. One thing about the FGC that has never changed is the Japanese glazing, that's for sure.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Americans didn't know any better, not all of them but the rural idiots certainly did, just like they buy Xbox consoles because they are easily tricked dum dums
>while no one else cared since it was slop
why do zoomers do this revisionist history shit? Do they just hope no people older than them exist and can call them out on their made up bullshit?
I'm older than you pal
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm older than you pal >lying about how nobody liked the biggest fighting game sensation of the 90s
lmao
lol
3 months ago
Anonymous
>the biggest fighting game sensation
But enough about Street Fighter 2
3 months ago
Anonymous
MK sold more.
Stay mad 🙂
3 months ago
Anonymous
It honestly sounds more like you don't know the competitive merit of certain MK games, and are painting the entire series and its history off of your own internal ideas that you likely entirely formed off of kids memeing on the newer titles (MKX-MK1).
If anything, YOU don't know any better.
FYI, some of the greatest American SF players were very competent at Mortal Kombat as well. John Choi could play the games way better than you'd ever expect, because that's just how arcade culture was back in the day. Sometimes when you didn't want to wait for a line, you'd put your quarter up and waste time on a less popular game and just get good from that.
3 months ago
Anonymous
MK sold more.
Stay mad 🙂
Mortal Kombat was slop and no one liked it guys
Ignore it being a system mover for Sega, that doesn't count okay, nobody liked it
Okay stop laughing guys I was there okay
>it sold well so its good
I'm sure you also liked Starfield, Cyberpunk and all the console western slop that has been released in these decades. also Sega "system movers" were sport games, i guess we should start praising those too, amazing games.
3 months ago
Anonymous
your claim was that nobody liked it. Sales show otherwise. Get fricked LARPing zoomer moron.
3 months ago
Anonymous
damn, giving that burn a 5
3 months ago
Anonymous
I didn't say that, i only said that only rural american dumbasses liked it, the ones that also were buying sport games in droves.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I didn't say that
Look at the year of the sport games, the Saturn was getting discontinued by 1998, you do the math
[...]
As i said before it was extremely violent while nothing else on the market was, americans loved it while no one else cared since it was slop
>while no one else cared since it was slop
CLEARLY
LOL
3 months ago
Anonymous
And the obsession that Sega had for sport titles is what ruined them since Sony already had that market covered, they honestly thought american devs would actually make a difference and save them with sports slop, should have focused on (porting from Japan) good games instead
>I didn't say that
[...] >while no one else cared since it was slop
CLEARLY
LOL
Learn to read
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Learn to read my own post that I wrote with the words that I used
fricking moron LOL
3 months ago
Anonymous
>americans loved it
There i'll post it again so you can try to read it very carefully also calm down you are breaking that capslock
3 months ago
Anonymous
there are three game markets in the 90s that counted, the US, EU, and Japan. Your 'everyone else' is wrong since the EU got a release of a game Midway didn't even intend to sell there.
You could just say 'Japan' but you were trying to make it sound like the whole world hated MK when that's hilariously wrong
cope and move them goalposts, zoom zoom
3 months ago
Anonymous
Europe didn't give much of a frick about it because we are not obsessed with violence, Japan literally gave even less of a frick since they are even more civilized
nobody cares about fighting games you sad moron
They were only for killing time when arcades were around
get fricked
Calm down redneck
>FGC homosexualS trying to ruin a comfy thread
frick off back to your dead threads you fricking gormless homosexuals
I was just pointing out facts, saying that western console games were terrible in the 90s is a fact no matter how they want to spin it
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Europe didn't give much of a frick about it because we are not obsessed with violence
hahahahahaha
3 months ago
Anonymous
nah, piss off Muhammed. You're too busy eating the world's most microplastic infected veggies to have time to LARP about the 90s.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I was just pointing out facts, saying that western console games were terrible in the 90s is a fact
man wait until this kid figures out Sonic was made mostly here in America and what STI was. I'm sure the cope will be "it sucked" and Rare "sucked" and the mountain of games proving he's a larping idiot all "suck"
3 months ago
Anonymous
>what STI was
never again will we have such a meeting of the minds
3 months ago
Anonymous
this is what globalization was supposed to be; the best minds regardless of country or color... not the horror show of today
3 months ago
Anonymous
From what I've read and watched regarding the development of Sonic 2 & 3, nips and burgers hardly worked with each other, or worse were split off from each other in keycarded rooms that the other half oftentimes couldn't access.
Even in the early 90s, SEGA was being moronic with its infighting.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sega of America was the living proof that generally the west only cares about profits and couldn't care less about making or publishing a good game, they found success only because they made the Mega Drive the console for sports titles, the ones that actually brought good games to the platform was Sega of Japan
3 months ago
Anonymous
lol
this is what globalization was supposed to be; the best minds regardless of country or color... not the horror show of today
>what STI was
never again will we have such a meeting of the minds
3 months ago
Anonymous
>It was only liked by the largest gaming demographic that it was specifically aimed for
God damn, imagine being this stupid.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You understand MK1 was primarily aimed at the NA market, right? It was never intended to have a demographic outside of America, even though it got a Euro release.
3 months ago
Anonymous
also released in Japan. Didn't do awfully, either.
3 months ago
Anonymous
So how did the series that didn't sell in Japan overtake Street Fighter in sales? Still to this day btw
KEK
You do know Mortal Kombat was always a joke in fighting game communities right? Especially at the time it was low tier slop only played by peopel that didn't know any better.
>You do know Mortal Kombat was always a joke in fighting game communities
Black person, I am 40 fricking years old and I was fricking TEN when that shit came out
Fricking "communities"; it was 4 pre-pubescent kids mashing A and going "HOLY FRICKING SHIT DID YOU SEE THAT BLOOD"
mk3 was always a solid entry in the fgc but larper b***hes like you who play 3 rounds of assist mode fighters and then go back to your r/kappa replacements wouldn't kno.
Look at the year of the sport games, the Saturn was getting discontinued by 1998, you do the math
>You do know Mortal Kombat was always a joke in fighting game communities
Black person, I am 40 fricking years old and I was fricking TEN when that shit came out
Fricking "communities"; it was 4 pre-pubescent kids mashing A and going "HOLY FRICKING SHIT DID YOU SEE THAT BLOOD"
As i said before it was extremely violent while nothing else on the market was, americans loved it while no one else cared since it was slop
>while no one else cared since it was slop
why do zoomers do this revisionist history shit? Do they just hope no people older than them exist and can call them out on their made up bullshit?
It's unclear if this is even zoomer behavior, as it's honestly more likely to be alphatard moronation. I feel like this is absolutely something I'd see another 12 year old post when I was around that age, hanging out in online spaces I shouldn't have.
For retail games supply and demand both matter, its not like digital where only demand matters so its hard to understand the reason for that price. And yes puzzle games like any genre that actually stimulated your mind were popular back then.
no its not. only special chips games reached prices that high. smrpg, a FX chip game, costed roughly $75 when it was new. I remember because my mom bought it for me on a whim one summer at toys r us and I was a little shocked at the price.
It's funny to me that as much as I hate Snoys, I was a big PS fan in the 90's/early 00's.
I was so fricking excited to play Twisted Metal Black at my friend's house, you have no idea.
Now Sony has been gay movie games for longer than they were good. Sad, but time marches on.
>I know now that I dodged a bullet but I used to be so jealous of people who could play Virtua-On at home
I think in the late 90s, PC and console really slugged it out evenly in terms of God Tier games, but there was always this weird aversion to just admitting Japan dominated console gaming. I remember Secret of Evermore's big selling point being "IT'S BY US AND NOT THE MOON PEOPLE"
>TV TV TV SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS SHOVELWARE SHOVELWARE SHOVELWARE ARCADE PORTS ARCADE PORTS ARCADE PORTS >OH AND SONIC
This is literally, unironically, current Xbox
The more things "change" the more they stay the same
No wonder SEGA died
[...]
[...] >Western games=all terrible aside from Vectorman >japanese games=only few are even listed
A tale as old as time
The problem with Western games they all end up pandering to normalgays so they turn into slop. They always choose the "safe" idea.
The Japanese are not an original people. They ripoff things ALL the time but they add a twist to it so then it looks cool and different.
Why was Mog the mascot of Final Fantasy 3? I remember all the ads and before I played the game I thought it was a top down adventure game where you play as a little flying creature who flies to different islands and slashes and electrocutes enemies
They probably wanted a mascot character, and Moogles were first in Japanese 3 so by 6 they were recurring characters.
Also the TV spot featured Mog, and the entire game I imagined him talking like some fat Brooklyn guy.
Adult life is more lonely than anything else. The stuff you loved still exists and occasionally new stuff that's good gets released, but the thing is that you don't really have friends and family around anymore to share things with.
my friend came back from Hong Kong with a chipped PS1 and burned games in a giant folder. We had such fricking fun that summer.
I remember playing this all day, and then Rival Schools the next
>my friend came back from Hong Kong with a chipped PS1
Had a similar experience. He went there fairly often and would always come back with a ton of games not in NA market.
Mortal Kombat was slop and no one liked it guys
Ignore it being a system mover for Sega, that doesn't count okay, nobody liked it
Okay stop laughing guys I was there okay
games have been $60 each maximum for almost all of my life regardless of console, they've only pushed it up to $70-80 in the past 5 or so years, but i was born in N64 era, so i can't comment on snes games prices, but these aren't normal or acceptable prices even in canadian, especially not in the 90's
Mortal Kombat making this moron so mad he's trying to retcon reality like he's the Demiurge. Back in 1993 we didn't give a frick about the fighting GAY community; only about renting MK from Blockbuster and eating pizza on Friday
ngl this anon might be right about casual scrubs MK dickriders always being overweight redneck boomers though
like the kinds of guys that listened to white rappers and ICP and led zeppelin and shit unironically
1993 >high quality plastic cartridge >circuit board and latest chips >robust cardboard game case >colorful detailed instruction manual >finished product (full game on game pak) >high quality game that stands the test of time and is still in every top 20 of best video games of all time
2024 >cheap ass blu-ray >unfinished trash cinematic movie game with woke propaganda and garbage bare bones gameplay
nobody is complaining except digital pc trannies who own nothing and still have to pay 70€ for air
ok so 90
where's the full game in 2020?
the box?
the disk?
the manual thats bigger than most books?
the playable game that isn't broken at launch?
3 months ago
Anonymous
You do know that games were broken too on the SNES and NES and 64 right?
Also, just buy console games if you want a box and CD?
3 months ago
Anonymous
i dont remember any game that was almost unplayable at release on nes and snes like nowdays >consoles
to buy a box with a code with nothing else? i'm fine thank you
3 months ago
Anonymous
What? We literally have spawns of youtubers all about shitty NES and SNES games.
Here to start your journey
3 months ago
Anonymous
i dont watch e-morons
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sorry, I poosted a video older than you, my bad.
3 months ago
Anonymous
not watching your e-celeb soiboy zoomie
3 months ago
Anonymous
>reccomending AVGN
The guy knew nothing about videogames and was just playing a character, his pal Mike Matei does
3 months ago
Anonymous
The point is that bad NES and SNES games are everywhere. It's crazy to say that today is worst than before
3 months ago
Anonymous
Today is worse than before because even the supposed good games suck and we never had this much shovelware in any time in history, just check Steam or frankly any console marketplace
3 months ago
Anonymous
And we never had as many good games either. Anybody can release a game for 100$ on steam which mean that you have a lot more games of all kind.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's a lie, we never had this many "acceptable" games but "good" is a whole another level that the vast majority of games today doesn't reach, let's not even talk about "great"
>big friggin plastic cartridge which contains a full on PCB powered by a battery if your game supported saves. In some cases said PCB contained hardware capable of generating 3D backgrounds (mode 7) >a cool looking box that your mom would simply throw away anyways >manual included
Meanwhile morons are charging $70 for digital goods.
Games of today require more work, more employees to get them done, they are still way more shit than the simple games of yesterday but again what is important is give the ilusion that customers spent their money "well", possibly on a boring but very long game.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Most of the great games of the last decades were indie small games.
Also, fun fact : Most games you found good on the NES and SNES are Acceptable, but you have nostalgia for them since you played them over and over.
Which does not happen now, because you wont play 99% of what comes out.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Consoles come with disks or cardriges. PC games come with a Steam code.
Those prices are incredibly inflated. I can clearly remember buying Contra III for 70 bucks and I was shocked at the high price. 40 to 50 bucks was the norm for SNES games.
Bargain bin games were $19.99.
Got shit like plok, claymates, clayfighter and bubsy for that cheap. Blockbuster always had cheap used games too. You only paid 59.99 if you were buying Mega Man X or Super Metroid new at launch day.
you can rent all these games and you got physical copies. now you get games that don't work on release and not only is it digital but you don't own them, you can have them revoked at any time for any reason. you are 1. so stupid and 2. a fricking shill for the industry.
Maybe publishers should spend less on advertising
Also for all those in favour of prices being raised need to understand that the actual devs won't see a cent of it unless they themselves are the publishers of it as well
>CD mass production came along and cut prices. >Digital came along and was meant to cut prices.
Where are we now? OH YEAH >PS5, the first to adopt $70 games, literally on death's door as Sony moves on. >XBOX is meme that relies upon old-school rental deals (i.e. Gamepass) >Switch is using outdated tech yet the top-selling of PS4, XBONE, PS5, and Series S/X. Also kept their prices MOSTLY reasonable. >PC are getting steep discounts and mostly buy indie anyways >CORPORATIONS LOSING MONEY HAND OVER FIST
But keep bringing up the past. We're about to repeat one helluvan event.
Even at 70$, we are still not at 1996 or 1980s prices. Also, prices did go down, but games cost more than ever because people keep wanting 50 hours Multiplayer open world survival games with 100 players on the same map
Are we in 1996 or 1980s? No? Then quit bringing it up! Also, majority of a game's budget is advertising and licensing on multiple platforms. Not only that, if I were to humor the comparison to the past: WHO drives up those prices, WHO bloats the budget with hyperrealism and other anti-customer (NOT CONSUMER) shit then loses out to indie titles? Spoilers: Modern gaming is not for people who play games like it was in the 90s, though is terrifyingly accurate to 1983's mindset.
>Digital came along and was meant to cut prices.
It did for a bit during the Steam renaissance when cheap games, real steam sales and bundles were the norm. Now they are trying to sell 70 dollar games on steams and most indietrash comes in a 30 dollars or more
>comparing a digital download license to a physical COMPLETE game cartridge with box and instruction booklet
If only you, zoomers understood how much we lost..
Even worse that image is from Electronic Boutique (EB games into Game Stop) who were notorious for upcharging for games vs local retailers, so those prices don't even represent the average US price we as kids saw in local ads, they were closer to $50-60 from more local retailers.
The fact of the matter is that most games aren't long enough or repayable enough to be worth buying, so you didn't need to actually buy those games instead of simply renting them for $5. So people didn't mind the price because they didn't actually buy that many games as opposed to renting them from Blockbuster etc. Zoomers don't understand this because rentals don't exist anymore so they think we must have had giant collections of $80 games.
Everyone here has already mentioned this but for context >Most of the cost was the cartridge >It costed more to ship 1000 snes games to just the store to be sold back then at that time then it does to host 100 titles on a server rack and serve those games to 100 million people. >n64 manuals costed more to design and print then it does to pay one dude to make a tutorial and ui for said tutorial >Sales volume is so much higher today then it was back then it's insane(Sales volume is what gave us the modern supermarket) >You can sell games in more markets then ever without having to shove a bunch of grey bricks into a cardboard box then shove those cardboard poxes on a pallet, then ship those pallets across vast oceans and land masses from the only places cost effective enough to ship from. >Cost of living was easily half of what it is today even if you use a calculator with a hammer and sickle on it >Sales tax, property tax ect are all astronomically higher then the 90's >Tools and assets are super streamlined and all the hard RND was front loaded already even marketing people have templates that make their jobs 10x easier then they ever were >Games just don't need to be 70$ when indies are making shit work for half the cost and twice the game play quality. >Games back then had no dlc and shit like yakuza is charging 15$ for new game plus right out of the gate. Most new games have editions that cost 100$ or more already.
The list goes on and on and on but devs need cash to pad their mistakes and executives need it to buy a new golden toilet and pad their mistakes. It's why palworld caused a chimpout it proved you could do something fun with 10 c**ts in an office building in japan and make buku bank while you do it. They were mad that their teams of thousands of people across the globe who charge 80$ for unfinished trash fires backed by press who want to push the "Live love live service" narrative got showed their walking papers. Frick them.
man i swear i remember games being mostly $50 in the 90s with exceptions for games like Hey You! Pikachu that came with additional peripherals
this is some mandela effect shit goddamn it i wish i had some receipts or something from back then
maybe it was regional pricing
What’s not shown is $0.99 gas, $200 rent, and $1 fast food though
or the fact that I wouldn't go to Cucks R Us and instead go to The Warehouse and buy what was on sale. I got FF Mystic Quest for 15 dollars, and it was the first real JRPG I ever played and got me hooked.
Since the Wherehouse's big thing was you can listen to music before buying and they had game kiosks all over, they didn't care that some little kid was writing down Mortal Kombat codes and moves on a pamplet from a magazine.
mystic quest was also my fist jrpg and it was really comfy
later i discovered literally everyone hated it
it worked on me and did what was intended; get dumb gaijin into the genre.
I remember being a kid and when we went to town my mom would say "we need gas" and I would go "there's a gas station" and she would say "not there, I'm not paying 99 cents a gallon."
...making games a frickton more expensive in comparison
My god, not a pure luxury being expensive while mandatory things were cheaper!!!!
reinforcing op's point
Erm, I was told by some very smug urbanites that nothing was better in the past
>that nothing was better in the past
wrong
We can thank Reggie for that one.
back when I started uni I could drive a whole week by putting 5 dollars in my tank. we truly lived in another dimension
No? Inflation happened. That 5$ was worth 9$ in 2000.
Whats also not shown are the other games that are from $30 to $40 and $50 nor the store that this was because every store sold the games for different prices.
But I know what this is from, this is from the SEARS magazine, which always listed shit much higher.
>$100 for the snes at that point.
>$19 for a controller.
So, DKC2 came out in 1995. Here are the prices in 1996 at toys r us.
129$ in 1996 would be $253.57 in 2024
And those games would be $120.
>$200 rent
Not anywhere you'd want to live it wasn't
Nor $300 per week pay.
It was cheaper than that. I could get a burger at McDonalds for 49 cents.
What year?
>inflation exists
Who knew? Guess we should just vote for fascist pieces of shit so we can fail to recapture a time that's never coming back.
>What’s not shown is $0.99 gas ... and $1 fast food
watching movies/TV series of 1980-1990s feel weird because everything is so cheap.
Donkey Kong Country 2 worth every cent
>big friggin plastic cartridge which contains a full on PCB powered by a battery if your game supported saves. In some cases said PCB contained hardware capable of generating 3D backgrounds (mode 7)
>a cool looking box that your mom would simply throw away anyways
>manual included
Meanwhile morons are charging $70 for digital goods.
>oh no these things cost $4 back then to mass produce
>implying programmable microchips were that cheap back then
have a nice day corporate shill dog
>xe says on an American website on the board dedicated to video games
so self unaware it hurts
>clone of a Japanese website owned by a jap who lives in France
>American
I didn't mention America but I suppose that only a mutt would white knight for megacorps.
>moron so butthurt by America he can't even acknowledge a site founded by, hosted in, and visited mostly by Americans is an American website
comedy
Mode 7 was a graphics mode of the base hardware, it wasn't dependent on a special chip. A few games like Mario Kart used mode 7 in conjunction with a DSP which was an add-on chip. The SFX, CX4 and SA1 were also add-on chips that were used in a few games
why buy a game in this era when you could rent it for a week beat it return it and then when you got the urge to play it again, you just go back to blockbuster i didnt know many people who owned games before N64/PS1
No wonder Earthbound went unnoticed back in the day. It was 90 dollars...
They thought people would criticize its simple graphics and presentation compared to what other RPGs were doing at the time and included the player's guide and the scratch and sniff stuff that probably ended up making it even more expensive which also made the box way bigger than necessary which would've taken up more shelf space making retailers more hesitant to display it on top of that. Really kind of botched marketing all around.
>Complete game bought with no day 1 patch
Besides that, rental stores were still a thing and used stores were gaining traction. My parents rarely bought me a game brand spanking new unless it was for birthdays or holidays. We just fricking rented.
those games were worth playing though. also show the prices for controllers compared to now.
My parents were poor. Until the late 90s when I built a PC.
Tell us the tale of how you used your PC to enrich your family
how about the story of how when you lost the paper DRM you were fricked kek
The cartridges cost a ton of money to be manufactured. It was the same with the N64.
I remember one of the Phantasy Star games was over 100 dollars at retail when it was released on the Genesis.
Realistically, if games actually increased in price at the same rate as everything else, a single game should cost around $250-$275 right now. Each.
So sit down, and stfu. $70-$100 for a game is literally CHEAP AS HELL!
piss off, shill
https://old.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1aqxq8f/we_complain_about_prices_of_games_now_snes_in/kqg3kd4/
get farted on b***h
kys
snes costs back then were higher because packaging was huge, cartridges were expensive, all games had expansive manuals, etc
now all you get is a cheap plastic box with a download code and frick all if you pay for the standard edition and dlc for an ingame golden dildo so everyone can see you are a homosexual and devs want us to pay snes prices for something we cannot even sell afterwards if we dont like it
get the frick out of here
go back smelly prostitute
games also used to come in huge boxes with manuals and they used to come finished and playable at launch
so frick off drone
>games also used to come in huge boxes with manuals
My favorite thing to do back in the day when I got a new game was open it up in the car and read the manual on the ride home.
there aren't production costs now because it's all digital for the most part.
CONSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.
GOYSLOP.
CHUD.
You good?
89.98 for EarthBound is a scam
it came with an entire player guide book
Then the PS1 came out and CRUSHED those prices because CDs were way cheaper to produce (and Sony actually owned CD pressing facilities).
This was a significant reason that Nintendo lost major ground in the 64 era. N64 games were still $70-$80 while Playstation games were $40-$50, making it a lot more realistic to own a good amount of games rather than relying on renting/sales.
>best buy tag
>super nintendo games
that's a helluva trip
Nintendo's cartridges cost substantially more to manufacture than CDs, plus they charged a higher royalty per game sold. Sony made a bunch of shrewd decisions with the original Playstation and PS2 that allowed them to dominate the console market in the 90's and early 00's, it wasn't even a competition.
PSone games were cheaper not because they were inherently a CD and that it was cheaper but because Sony owned the patent or something along those lines which allowed them to produce them at a cheaper cost
>PSone games were cheaper not because they were inherently a CD and that it was cheaper
the average cost to manufacture a single cartridge was like $5-$6 depending on the features of the cartridge (battery backup, rom size, etc.), cost to manufacture a CD was 10¢. Tell me more about how it wasn't because CDs were cheaper.
Sony owning the patent has relatively little to do with it. Saturn games also tended to be in the same range as Playstation games, and eventually Dreamcast games did as well, while N64 games were typically +$20 more expensive minimum.
I mean compare these prices. Sure N64 was around 100 bucks cheaper for the console. But After 3 games you made your money back on PS1 (and that's assuming you didn't pirate like many did)
2Xtreme<3Xtreme.
>t.knower
Those games were actually complete you dumbass
You're under 25.
Are you moronic or just pretending to be? Those games were released as-is, carts could have been rereleased later with updates but other than that you didn't have to pay for content that should have been in the base game.
I always remember buying games on sale. I never got shit new
>Canadian prices
Did Cancucks really?
we weren't far off. 60 was the most common, but 70 for the latest SPORTS GAYME or hot shit like Mortal Kombat wasn't uncommon.
it's pretty wild how controller prices have gone up $10 every gen and no one's really questioned it
Funniest thing here is the 6 button genesis controller being superior to every single modern pad by a mile lol
Interesting how close in price the old cartridge consoles were to their games. The mass adoption of the CD really saved people from spending absurd amounts on games.
That's the price of a Mega Drive when the production of the console had already ended years before that
>Western games=all terrible aside from Vectorman
>japanese games=only few are even listed
A tale as old as time
I think in the late 90s, PC and console really slugged it out evenly in terms of God Tier games, but there was always this weird aversion to just admitting Japan dominated console gaming. I remember Secret of Evermore's big selling point being "IT'S BY US AND NOT THE MOON PEOPLE"
When Japan let westerners control the industry is when gaming went to shit, its not that complex to understand, western console games in the 90s were rarely ever good because they focused on the wrong things and generally had terrible artists and composers
Mortal Kombat was only in vogue because it was extremely violent, as a fighting game series it sucked for decades, only in recent days it is at least respectable.
It still had a dedicated competitive scene, especially between MK2 until MKT, and it didn't start to crumble until MK4 (which still also had its players as well).
UMK3 has a very historied fighting game scene, but to reduce it to "a joke" because the game never took off in Japan is wild. One thing about the FGC that has never changed is the Japanese glazing, that's for sure.
Americans didn't know any better, not all of them but the rural idiots certainly did, just like they buy Xbox consoles because they are easily tricked dum dums
I'm older than you pal
>I'm older than you pal
>lying about how nobody liked the biggest fighting game sensation of the 90s
lmao
lol
>the biggest fighting game sensation
But enough about Street Fighter 2
MK sold more.
Stay mad 🙂
It honestly sounds more like you don't know the competitive merit of certain MK games, and are painting the entire series and its history off of your own internal ideas that you likely entirely formed off of kids memeing on the newer titles (MKX-MK1).
If anything, YOU don't know any better.
FYI, some of the greatest American SF players were very competent at Mortal Kombat as well. John Choi could play the games way better than you'd ever expect, because that's just how arcade culture was back in the day. Sometimes when you didn't want to wait for a line, you'd put your quarter up and waste time on a less popular game and just get good from that.
>it sold well so its good
I'm sure you also liked Starfield, Cyberpunk and all the console western slop that has been released in these decades. also Sega "system movers" were sport games, i guess we should start praising those too, amazing games.
your claim was that nobody liked it. Sales show otherwise. Get fricked LARPing zoomer moron.
damn, giving that burn a 5
I didn't say that, i only said that only rural american dumbasses liked it, the ones that also were buying sport games in droves.
>I didn't say that
>while no one else cared since it was slop
CLEARLY
LOL
And the obsession that Sega had for sport titles is what ruined them since Sony already had that market covered, they honestly thought american devs would actually make a difference and save them with sports slop, should have focused on (porting from Japan) good games instead
Learn to read
>Learn to read my own post that I wrote with the words that I used
fricking moron LOL
>americans loved it
There i'll post it again so you can try to read it very carefully also calm down you are breaking that capslock
there are three game markets in the 90s that counted, the US, EU, and Japan. Your 'everyone else' is wrong since the EU got a release of a game Midway didn't even intend to sell there.
You could just say 'Japan' but you were trying to make it sound like the whole world hated MK when that's hilariously wrong
cope and move them goalposts, zoom zoom
Europe didn't give much of a frick about it because we are not obsessed with violence, Japan literally gave even less of a frick since they are even more civilized
Calm down redneck
I was just pointing out facts, saying that western console games were terrible in the 90s is a fact no matter how they want to spin it
>Europe didn't give much of a frick about it because we are not obsessed with violence
hahahahahaha
nah, piss off Muhammed. You're too busy eating the world's most microplastic infected veggies to have time to LARP about the 90s.
>I was just pointing out facts, saying that western console games were terrible in the 90s is a fact
man wait until this kid figures out Sonic was made mostly here in America and what STI was. I'm sure the cope will be "it sucked" and Rare "sucked" and the mountain of games proving he's a larping idiot all "suck"
>what STI was
never again will we have such a meeting of the minds
this is what globalization was supposed to be; the best minds regardless of country or color... not the horror show of today
From what I've read and watched regarding the development of Sonic 2 & 3, nips and burgers hardly worked with each other, or worse were split off from each other in keycarded rooms that the other half oftentimes couldn't access.
Even in the early 90s, SEGA was being moronic with its infighting.
Sega of America was the living proof that generally the west only cares about profits and couldn't care less about making or publishing a good game, they found success only because they made the Mega Drive the console for sports titles, the ones that actually brought good games to the platform was Sega of Japan
lol
>It was only liked by the largest gaming demographic that it was specifically aimed for
God damn, imagine being this stupid.
You understand MK1 was primarily aimed at the NA market, right? It was never intended to have a demographic outside of America, even though it got a Euro release.
also released in Japan. Didn't do awfully, either.
So how did the series that didn't sell in Japan overtake Street Fighter in sales? Still to this day btw
KEK
>he didn't like the classic mortal kombat games
you had no friends
You do know Mortal Kombat was always a joke in fighting game communities right? Especially at the time it was low tier slop only played by peopel that didn't know any better.
>fighting game communities
You know this isn't true, right?
I don't know why this kid decided to just make shit up though.
>You do know Mortal Kombat was always a joke in fighting game communities
Black person, I am 40 fricking years old and I was fricking TEN when that shit came out
Fricking "communities"; it was 4 pre-pubescent kids mashing A and going "HOLY FRICKING SHIT DID YOU SEE THAT BLOOD"
mk3 was always a solid entry in the fgc but larper b***hes like you who play 3 rounds of assist mode fighters and then go back to your r/kappa replacements wouldn't kno.
>$40 console
how in the frick?
Look at the year of the sport games, the Saturn was getting discontinued by 1998, you do the math
As i said before it was extremely violent while nothing else on the market was, americans loved it while no one else cared since it was slop
>while no one else cared since it was slop
why do zoomers do this revisionist history shit? Do they just hope no people older than them exist and can call them out on their made up bullshit?
It's unclear if this is even zoomer behavior, as it's honestly more likely to be alphatard moronation. I feel like this is absolutely something I'd see another 12 year old post when I was around that age, hanging out in online spaces I shouldn't have.
It's the original Vectorman in that bundle, not the sequel advertised below. 2 years after its release would probably peg it at $20-30 new.
>Vectorman
My first filter
Here's American 1997 N64 game prices from JCPenney
$80 for sports games sheesh
>$80 for Tetris & Dr Mario
Was the demand for puzzle games really that high during the 90s?
For retail games supply and demand both matter, its not like digital where only demand matters so its hard to understand the reason for that price. And yes puzzle games like any genre that actually stimulated your mind were popular back then.
is this actually in usd? I don't remember super nintendo games costing this much. maybe I only got them second hand or something.
no its not. only special chips games reached prices that high. smrpg, a FX chip game, costed roughly $75 when it was new. I remember because my mom bought it for me on a whim one summer at toys r us and I was a little shocked at the price.
It's funny to me that as much as I hate Snoys, I was a big PS fan in the 90's/early 00's.
I was so fricking excited to play Twisted Metal Black at my friend's house, you have no idea.
Now Sony has been gay movie games for longer than they were good. Sad, but time marches on.
>I know now that I dodged a bullet but I used to be so jealous of people who could play Virtua-On at home
>TV TV TV SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS SHOVELWARE SHOVELWARE SHOVELWARE ARCADE PORTS ARCADE PORTS ARCADE PORTS
>OH AND SONIC
This is literally, unironically, current Xbox
The more things "change" the more they stay the same
No wonder SEGA died
The problem with Western games they all end up pandering to normalgays so they turn into slop. They always choose the "safe" idea.
The Japanese are not an original people. They ripoff things ALL the time but they add a twist to it so then it looks cool and different.
KI was worth it for the Killer Cuts CD.
FF got magazine and TV ads until 9, I think. At least I don't remember any for 10
X had tv ads, i heard simple and clean a billion times as a kid
>X
>simple and clean
uhhhhh
>FFX
>Simple and Clean
ok there grandpa its time for your shot
frickin SOUL
Top left: Humbaba/Phunbaba
Top right: Number 128
Bottom left: Deathgaze
Bottom center: Bomb?
Bottom right: Magna Roader
Bottom Center is obviously Mr. Chupon.
Why was Mog the mascot of Final Fantasy 3? I remember all the ads and before I played the game I thought it was a top down adventure game where you play as a little flying creature who flies to different islands and slashes and electrocutes enemies
They probably wanted a mascot character, and Moogles were first in Japanese 3 so by 6 they were recurring characters.
Also the TV spot featured Mog, and the entire game I imagined him talking like some fat Brooklyn guy.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kEzmkZD2DIE
These threads make me sad because I am not unhappy now, but I was REALLY happy back then.
Adult life is more lonely than anything else. The stuff you loved still exists and occasionally new stuff that's good gets released, but the thing is that you don't really have friends and family around anymore to share things with.
i sure hope you're pretending to be moronic
Nintendo does what seg can't
I bought all of them pirated in a shitty street vendor for like 5 bucks in the 90's.
my friend came back from Hong Kong with a chipped PS1 and burned games in a giant folder. We had such fricking fun that summer.
I remember playing this all day, and then Rival Schools the next
>my friend came back from Hong Kong with a chipped PS1
Had a similar experience. He went there fairly often and would always come back with a ton of games not in NA market.
My uncle chipped my PS1 and burned me and my cousin's every Friday courtesy of Blockbuster.
i hate feeling nostalgic for these ads. but then again i ignore the new ones put out due to all the other promo papers
Mortal Kombat was slop and no one liked it guys
Ignore it being a system mover for Sega, that doesn't count okay, nobody liked it
Okay stop laughing guys I was there okay
That's a Canadian ad you disingenuous c**t.
games have been $60 each maximum for almost all of my life regardless of console, they've only pushed it up to $70-80 in the past 5 or so years, but i was born in N64 era, so i can't comment on snes games prices, but these aren't normal or acceptable prices even in canadian, especially not in the 90's
Mortal Kombat making this moron so mad he's trying to retcon reality like he's the Demiurge. Back in 1993 we didn't give a frick about the fighting GAY community; only about renting MK from Blockbuster and eating pizza on Friday
At least someone admits it that MK fans don't care about fighting games, they only care about violence, literal brainlets.
nobody cares about fighting games you sad moron
They were only for killing time when arcades were around
get fricked
yes, 10 year old boys did only care about using a fatality on their friends. You didn't have any so I understand the confusion.
>go to local flea market
>buy games for $5 a pop
>go to blockbuster
>rent game for a week for $7
now what?
>FGC homosexualS trying to ruin a comfy thread
frick off back to your dead threads you fricking gormless homosexuals
Mario 64 sold separately
ngl this anon might be right about casual scrubs MK dickriders always being overweight redneck boomers though
like the kinds of guys that listened to white rappers and ICP and led zeppelin and shit unironically
Juggalos didn't really exist in 1993 moron.
yeah thats why they dont know shit about MK beyond sweep and uppercut and probably bought all the slop like MK4 and Armageddon and shit UNIRONICALLY
what the frick are you even talking about you schizo turban wearing Eurotrash moron?
>calls someone else schizo
>calls the cute girl he's having a conversation with a turban wearing eurotrash moron out of nowhere
smfh do u really
They already are because the Switch is achieving enough market penetration to make ports viable.
those weren't my prices on my country
Those are the "my mom buys my games" prices. Normal people knew how to find deals below retail
>act moronic
>get called out
>realize you're moronic
>pretend to be a troony so you can claim to be "le ebin trolling"
frick off no more (you)s
1993
>high quality plastic cartridge
>circuit board and latest chips
>robust cardboard game case
>colorful detailed instruction manual
>finished product (full game on game pak)
>high quality game that stands the test of time and is still in every top 20 of best video games of all time
2024
>cheap ass blu-ray
>unfinished trash cinematic movie game with woke propaganda and garbage bare bones gameplay
nobody is complaining except digital pc trannies who own nothing and still have to pay 70€ for air
>2024
>cheap ass blu-ray
on pc you don't even get any physical discs anymore, just an empty dvd case and a key on a flimsy slip of paper
>pc trannies
no one buys games at release . only you morons with no self control
Those are canuck bucks you monkey
Adjusted for inflation
$79.48 = $146.73
weird money on my bank doesn't increase like that
and salary neither
Video games are still not at 1990 expensive level
i never saw a cartridge at 90 , 70 maybe , but never 70
but then i'm spanish and we got fricked with the pesetas>euro conversion in a lot of ways
Ajusted. 90$ is what you would pay in 2020 for the same game
ok so 90
where's the full game in 2020?
the box?
the disk?
the manual thats bigger than most books?
the playable game that isn't broken at launch?
You do know that games were broken too on the SNES and NES and 64 right?
Also, just buy console games if you want a box and CD?
i dont remember any game that was almost unplayable at release on nes and snes like nowdays
>consoles
to buy a box with a code with nothing else? i'm fine thank you
What? We literally have spawns of youtubers all about shitty NES and SNES games.
Here to start your journey
i dont watch e-morons
Sorry, I poosted a video older than you, my bad.
not watching your e-celeb soiboy zoomie
>reccomending AVGN
The guy knew nothing about videogames and was just playing a character, his pal Mike Matei does
The point is that bad NES and SNES games are everywhere. It's crazy to say that today is worst than before
Today is worse than before because even the supposed good games suck and we never had this much shovelware in any time in history, just check Steam or frankly any console marketplace
And we never had as many good games either. Anybody can release a game for 100$ on steam which mean that you have a lot more games of all kind.
That's a lie, we never had this many "acceptable" games but "good" is a whole another level that the vast majority of games today doesn't reach, let's not even talk about "great"
Games of today require more work, more employees to get them done, they are still way more shit than the simple games of yesterday but again what is important is give the ilusion that customers spent their money "well", possibly on a boring but very long game.
Most of the great games of the last decades were indie small games.
Also, fun fact : Most games you found good on the NES and SNES are Acceptable, but you have nostalgia for them since you played them over and over.
Which does not happen now, because you wont play 99% of what comes out.
Consoles come with disks or cardriges. PC games come with a Steam code.
>Jewflation adjusted
>Luxury items
>Impacted by inflation the same way
Lol
these cartridges also contained copper and batteries
Those prices are incredibly inflated. I can clearly remember buying Contra III for 70 bucks and I was shocked at the high price. 40 to 50 bucks was the norm for SNES games.
They are Canadian prices and $60 US was the norm.
Bargain bin games were $19.99.
Got shit like plok, claymates, clayfighter and bubsy for that cheap. Blockbuster always had cheap used games too. You only paid 59.99 if you were buying Mega Man X or Super Metroid new at launch day.
That's an early 2000 image the SNES was on sales bins at that point
gee mom, how come jimmy gets to have a playstation AND a nintendo 64?
Picture looks staged
how is that heavy tv not crushing that box?
you can rent all these games and you got physical copies. now you get games that don't work on release and not only is it digital but you don't own them, you can have them revoked at any time for any reason. you are 1. so stupid and 2. a fricking shill for the industry.
If you think the junk games of today should be $70, you should be shot.
Games are better now than in the 90s. Prove me wrong.
They suck. I'm right and you're wrong.
Nice excuses. Name any game from the 90s and I have a better version in the 2020s.
You are just nostalgic
Hello canada, you are not people. I don't care about your market
>We complain about prices of games now. SNES in 1994/95.
Now post prices of CD-ROM games.
see
pc games were always cheaper than console games
average pc game was 25-35€ while expansions used to be 15-20€
Maybe publishers should spend less on advertising
Also for all those in favour of prices being raised need to understand that the actual devs won't see a cent of it unless they themselves are the publishers of it as well
>151 / 25 / 55 / 2
I own 54 of you. You're my puppets. Dance for me.
You good sasuke?
>CD mass production came along and cut prices.
>Digital came along and was meant to cut prices.
Where are we now? OH YEAH
>PS5, the first to adopt $70 games, literally on death's door as Sony moves on.
>XBOX is meme that relies upon old-school rental deals (i.e. Gamepass)
>Switch is using outdated tech yet the top-selling of PS4, XBONE, PS5, and Series S/X. Also kept their prices MOSTLY reasonable.
>PC are getting steep discounts and mostly buy indie anyways
>CORPORATIONS LOSING MONEY HAND OVER FIST
But keep bringing up the past. We're about to repeat one helluvan event.
Even at 70$, we are still not at 1996 or 1980s prices. Also, prices did go down, but games cost more than ever because people keep wanting 50 hours Multiplayer open world survival games with 100 players on the same map
Are we in 1996 or 1980s? No? Then quit bringing it up! Also, majority of a game's budget is advertising and licensing on multiple platforms. Not only that, if I were to humor the comparison to the past: WHO drives up those prices, WHO bloats the budget with hyperrealism and other anti-customer (NOT CONSUMER) shit then loses out to indie titles? Spoilers: Modern gaming is not for people who play games like it was in the 90s, though is terrifyingly accurate to 1983's mindset.
>Digital came along and was meant to cut prices.
It did for a bit during the Steam renaissance when cheap games, real steam sales and bundles were the norm. Now they are trying to sell 70 dollar games on steams and most indietrash comes in a 30 dollars or more
The greed is just amazing
This looks like a fingerhut type catalog. Everything is overpriced and you pay in installments.
i gotta say, if there's anything i do miss about older times, it's controllers lowering in price within the lifespan of a console.
then the Playstation came and sold new games at $50 and it ousold everyone else 3 to 1
Up to 70 slaves now, nice.
Don't you get it?
I took the top post on r/videogames, pasted it here, took the top comments, pasted them here.
good fricking lord man
Always remember the times your parents gave you a game, that was like 2 days of work for them
>comparing a digital download license to a physical COMPLETE game cartridge with box and instruction booklet
If only you, zoomers understood how much we lost..
Even worse that image is from Electronic Boutique (EB games into Game Stop) who were notorious for upcharging for games vs local retailers, so those prices don't even represent the average US price we as kids saw in local ads, they were closer to $50-60 from more local retailers.
Please stop sharing that over inflated flyer, games were not that price. That was some overpriced Canadian store.
Canadian prices. Post an American catalog now.
Those are canuck prices.
That's why we would buy one game and then exchange it with a friend or cousin for a different one. Try that now zoomershits.
The fact of the matter is that most games aren't long enough or repayable enough to be worth buying, so you didn't need to actually buy those games instead of simply renting them for $5. So people didn't mind the price because they didn't actually buy that many games as opposed to renting them from Blockbuster etc. Zoomers don't understand this because rentals don't exist anymore so they think we must have had giant collections of $80 games.
0 dollars seems more appropriate.
>b-but denuvo!
Good job inconveniencing your paying customers. meanwhile I just play the waiting game, alongside my 10000+ game backlog.
Everyone here has already mentioned this but for context
>Most of the cost was the cartridge
>It costed more to ship 1000 snes games to just the store to be sold back then at that time then it does to host 100 titles on a server rack and serve those games to 100 million people.
>n64 manuals costed more to design and print then it does to pay one dude to make a tutorial and ui for said tutorial
>Sales volume is so much higher today then it was back then it's insane(Sales volume is what gave us the modern supermarket)
>You can sell games in more markets then ever without having to shove a bunch of grey bricks into a cardboard box then shove those cardboard poxes on a pallet, then ship those pallets across vast oceans and land masses from the only places cost effective enough to ship from.
>Cost of living was easily half of what it is today even if you use a calculator with a hammer and sickle on it
>Sales tax, property tax ect are all astronomically higher then the 90's
>Tools and assets are super streamlined and all the hard RND was front loaded already even marketing people have templates that make their jobs 10x easier then they ever were
>Games just don't need to be 70$ when indies are making shit work for half the cost and twice the game play quality.
>Games back then had no dlc and shit like yakuza is charging 15$ for new game plus right out of the gate. Most new games have editions that cost 100$ or more already.
The list goes on and on and on but devs need cash to pad their mistakes and executives need it to buy a new golden toilet and pad their mistakes. It's why palworld caused a chimpout it proved you could do something fun with 10 c**ts in an office building in japan and make buku bank while you do it. They were mad that their teams of thousands of people across the globe who charge 80$ for unfinished trash fires backed by press who want to push the "Live love live service" narrative got showed their walking papers. Frick them.
man i swear i remember games being mostly $50 in the 90s with exceptions for games like Hey You! Pikachu that came with additional peripherals
this is some mandela effect shit goddamn it i wish i had some receipts or something from back then
maybe it was regional pricing