We should all harass Ken Sugimori on twitter about pic related until we force him to make an official statement explaining what exactly happened here.
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We should all harass Ken Sugimori on twitter about pic related until we force him to make an official statement explaining what exactly happened here.
nothing happened. that's fan fiction shit
Mew being designed by the fricking programmer and put at the last minute in the game because there was some octets left in the cardridge memory sounds like fanfiction... but it happened.
Basically, Mew is based on Mewtwo and not the opposite
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/how-mew-saved-pokemon/1100-6490812/
Gen 1 was crazy like that.
Imho, what happened is that they switched the designs by mistake in the game's code, and once they realized it, it was too late too change and the game was already being sold
Not really. It's just what happened in Gen 5
>Genesect
>no original bug Pokémon that inspired the creation of Gensect
Genesect IS the original bug, Team Plasma resurrected it from a fossil and gave it cybernetic enhancements
They didn't plan to create Mew, sure... but right at the end, the coder saw "oh frick, I can put some last pokemon there" and put Mew
The fact Mew has 100IV and can learn everything makes for some cool lore, retrospectively... but back then it was because Morimoto didn't have the time to think about what he should be able to learn as a "regular pokemon"
Plus if it wasn't for glitches virtually nobody would have been able to use it anyway.
Some people managed to see a glitched Mew and spread rumors about it which boosted the sales in Japan like crazy
It's crazy how Game Freak's amateurish coder singlehandly created the hype necessary to make Pokémon a legendary franchise.
It wouldn't be possible nowadays with patches and the internet
>implying they fix shitty code nowadays
Two things contributed to the massive success of pokemon in its early stages:
>Trading
>The rumour of Mew
By far the most people used a gameshark or similar device to get Mew back then, especially because the glitches that can get you Mew weren't known until many years after the game was released.
Is mew just supposed to be a giant sperm?
Is that what it's been the whole time?
I can't believe I've never made this connection before
its a fetus
>what is Kabutops
not a bug type
It probably would be if their autism didn't force fossil pokemon to be rock type
Why do zoomers say such moronic shit all the time so confidently.
Your pattern-seeking brain is leading you astray. Do you really think it's more likely that the evo line was a mistake (when the PokeDex makes it very clear which monster comes after which) than a couple bug monsters sharing several stylized simple insectoid features by coincidende? Do you really?
If you answer yes I'll have to file you under moron or troll, the two are interchangeable honestly.
>Muh pokédex
It's about swapping different sprites by mistake in the game's code, not swapping different monsters altogether. It's always the ones quick to call others moronic who can't even read basic english
It's not like gen 1 wasn"t full of oversights
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_glitches_(Generation_I)
have a nice day, genuinely. I hate vermin like you, who aren't only stupid but proud of their idiotcy. Not only that, you're obtuse as well, trying to make us ignore the obvious. I sincerely hope that you read this, and even if you completely dismiss it, your brain will catch my message; one day you will have a nice day thanks to this post.
>idiotcy
>Having eyes is fan fiction
FPBP, it's also worth noting that the index numbers don't even support the swap being true (Caterpie line was added to the game in evolution order and not seperated)
the index lines dont mean what you think they mean because pokemon were designed on pen and paper before being made digitally
the index number means what then
figure it out by reading my post
It means literally nothing.
Actually, given that Rhydon is the first Pokemon in index order, that suggests that there's a rough chronological order to it. Especially since Kangaskhan is next up, which makes sense to be the second Pokemon back when they wanted to make them more monstrous. Clefairy is even the 4th Pokemon in index order, which would make sense being so early since it was going to be the original mascot.
I say rough, because we know for example, that Mew was put in last, but given that it was snuck in, it could have been taking up one of the Missing No slots. It's not enough that it discounts some sort of chronological order to it.
No they weren’t for gen 1 that’s why Graveler has legs in Yellow onwards but didn’t in RGB
Same goes for Golem having feet instead of 4 arms like Graveler
One of the reasons why the metamorphosis of insects is so interesting is that the adult form usually bears no resemblance to the nymph/larva. This makes the evolution of certain Pokémon, especially bug types, unpredictable in a pleasantly surprising way. Personally, I think the design elements were deliberately swapped between the moth and butterfly representatives, although gen 1 generally reused a lot of elements between the different evolutionary lines, giving the dex a neat coherence, so it may just be a case of that.
In Generation 3, this surprise aspect of insect metamorphosis was taken up again with Wurmple.
They were probably swapped precisely because Butterfree just looks like Venonat with wings, not very impressive metamorphosis
Why the frick you need an official explanation for the dead obvious. If its just to win internet arguments then your a moron.
That Pokedex book that explains why Nidoran-F's evolutions can't breed treats Venonat and Venomoth like separate families, they were always meant to look different.
Same thing that happened to Dragonair -> Gyarados and Magikarp -> Dragonite.
Thats actual fanfic
Magikarp and Gyarados have the same whiskers, lips, and fins. Dragonair and Dragonite have the same head shape and horn.
Gyarados beta also has similarities to gyarados; serpentine body, gaping maw, and the antenna look similar to the whiskers. If that red colored version of it is based on anything factual then that red could have inspired magikarps colors.
Gyarados beta IS meant to be similar to gyarados, moron
The whole dratini line shared the segmented belly. Idk why they removed the belly lines for dratini/dragonair in gen 2.
Gyarados is just blue and snakelike, other than that it looks nothing like Dragonair.
they would lie anyway
Why do you care? Think about if something this insignificant is worth getting so mad at that you harass someone about it
Never understood this stupid argument
A caterpillar turns into a butterfly
The weird gremlin bug turns into a moth
Makes sense to me
do you have brain damage? seems like you do
>this guy is a bran surgeon but he thinks the guy who is enjoying their surgery-free bran has bran damage
what a shitty bran surgeon
It's obvious that was their original intention but thew question is why did they switch it? Same with the Cubobe/Kangaskhan shit and Dragonite having barely anything to do with Dragonair.
Some people say gyarados and dragonite are swapped too
I half believe it
You only believe that because you never played gen 1.
Just say you never played gen 1. Dragonair and Dragonite share a lot of similarities you're just a newbie.
It's quite probably he didn't design any of them. And what happened is they just changed it because it flowed better
>It's quite probably he didn't design any of them.
he was still the art director and there were only four(4) pokemon designers. he knows
Doesn't matter, he didn't design them and didn't care, and you shouldn't either fricking tard
So it isn't the original bug and just like Mew it was genetically modified (new STAB) to be upgraded, got it.
I will never forgive what they did to my bro Venonat. Venomoth has virtually NOTHING in common with it
for the first time ever this excuse has been used, ACTUAL SMALL GAME DEV. They didn't have any significant quality control or the ability to afford outsourcing it for the first games.
Here's another clue for the sprite-swap theory.
In japanese Venomoth is called "Morphon" モルフォン - a name relate to the Morpho genus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morpho_(genus)
How do you recognize the Morpho genus? Well, from the iridescence of their wings and their black outlines
I WONDER which pokemon fits this description, it's such a mystery
caterpie is based on the swallowtail caterpillar, and on of the identifiable parts of swallowtail butterflies are the "tails" on the bottom of the wings, which can be seen on the design of venomoth
I didn't even know that, thanks anon
GameFreak simps will deny these.
So again, why the switch? Was it accidental or did they just think it worked better switched?
i assume they just thought butterfree was a better design
We will never know, but I think it's an accidental oversight and they just rolled with it
We don"t see any wrong with butterfree because it's a solid design and it arrives early in the game (and the anime) while Venomat arrives late.
It's not that butterfree flows better with caterpie, it's that venomat's evolution doesn't make sense until you put butterfree next to it.
Theories about GF wanting kids to have a "better looking early bug" don't make sense. Most green/red pokemon sprites are monstruous-looking and they weren't planning a multimedia franchise.
+ Satoshi Tajiri is a bug-catching autist. He wouldn't have let an incorrect swap slide intentionally.
Crazy how a minor frick up changed Pokemon forever. Venomoth might have been THE bugmon for gen 1 instead of Butterfree.
When you look at the Gen 1 Pokemon in index order it makes the idea that they swapped the evolutions pretty unlikely. Most Pokemon evolution lines are pretty fragmented, with Venonat and Venomoth not being an exception, but Caterpie-Butterfree are one of the few evolution lines that are kept together in index order, implying that there wasn't some accidental oversight that caused them to switch.
It's about swapping the displayed sprites not swapping the entire pokemon databases altogether.
Stuff like that can happen easily if you are not careful. In fact, it happens a lot with gen 1 "glitch" pokemon
It would also require the backspritre to fall for the same mistake. Not impossible however.
Game Freak's lackluster coding is well-known but character sprites are usually held together in old rpg games.
You dont want to have several butterfree files but one file with its main image, the back image, the mirrored one, the symbol, etc held together.
The mirrored sprites are obviously algorithmically generated from the regular one.
Interesting. What makes you think that?
Because it's easier to program showing pixels in reverse order instead of wasting space on redundant data?
Except the back sprites arent simply "reversed". There are several pokemon who shows elements you can't see in the front. Like Kabutops.
The development took 6 years. They had time to design sprites
we're not talking about the backsprites you fricking moron
Are you always this angry IRL? Do you have the balls to be?
Yeah, I misread
Just how it was done back then cause it saves memory.
The Gen 1 glitch Pokemon can actually be transferred into Gen 2, and be real Gen 2 Pokemon. Not that it actually means that the glitch Pokemon were the exact equivalents in Gen 2, as we saw in the leak.
But with Gen 1's index, you'd have to ask yourself whether they'd give the name Butterfree to Venomoth when Butterfree is a butterfly pun, with Butterfree being a generic butterfly.
Their index numbers are:
123 Caterpie
124 Metapod
125 Butterfree
so it's pretty clear from that that there was no mixup.
Yeah, but they were saying that the sprites could have been mixed up in the index.
I think this is what happened. And someone probably entered the index numbers then the sprite (or someone else), they probably compared between the two black and white sprite and made a decision as to what best fits the names and evo line. "Morphon" is still a play on words as to how venonats evolution is a mystery
Oh so that’s where the idea for the Sinnoh honey trees came from! It is a known fact that they were originally planned for gen 2 before actually being implemented in gen 4, so it makes sense
also Heracross's obsession with honey
Pretty sure a bunch of jap dudes in the 90s werent looking at the specific scientific genus of butterfly species, Morphon just comes from Morphing as in Metamorphosis. If they were switched there's no saying the names weren't switched too. Regardless, Morphon is a more fitting name for Metapod's evolution whichever that may be.
>Game director is a well-known bug autist who collectionned bugs an made Pokémon spécifically because of his bug obsession
Why isn't metamorph named "morphon" btw?
>Why isn't metamorph named "morphon" btw?
huh?
>liked to catch bugs as a kid
>being a serious entomologist
there's nothing about bug pokemon that denotes any real scientific rigor
Metamorph... I meant Ditto*, sorry. Ditto isn't named "morphon" even though it woul fits it much better than a bug who can't transform at all.
>there's nothing about bug pokemon that denotes any real scientific rigor
homie, just because they're making a children's game doesn't mean the devs have to make everything braindead.
Vileplume is named ラフレシア Ruffresia because the pokémon is directly based on the Rafflesia genus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafflesia
Likewise, knowing that morpho (the most popular butterflies) is a genus doesn't mean being a "serious entomologist".
Something Tajiri probably was, as an amateur. Insects are his passion
Ditto is named Metamon, not metamorph. Metamorphosis refers to the extreme biological transformation at certain stages of life in some animals. Classically the archetypal metamorphosis everyone is familiar and you learn at basic school are the caterpillar -> cocoon -> butterfly and tadpole -> froglet -> frog.
Morphon is the perfect name for Caterpie and Metapod's final evo.
The name Rafflesia is not just a scientific genus, it's literally also the plant's common name(even if in english it's also known as corpse flower) and they are extremely popular in east asia having been featured before Pokemon in media like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.
Now Morpho is not a common name, it's specific to tropical south american butterflies. Morpho are far from the most popular butterflies.
To clarify, I do think Venomoth and Butterfree were swapped, now whether it was accidental or a deliberate decision it's hard to say for sure. Now I don't think the name Morphon comes from the morpho genus but from morphing/metamorphosis(which the morpho genus derives its name from, lol) so it should be the name of the Caterpie's evo, a pokemon that's in the game to serve as the player's introduction to the concept of Pokemon "evolution" at the start of the game with a real life example everyone knows that works in a similar way(a drastic sudden mutation as you grow).
Either way, the name Morphon doesn't work for "Venomoth" as its presented in the final version with it being Venonat's evolution because it's unequivocally a swallowtail not a morpho and it doesn't showcase the classical larva -> pupa -> nymph metamorphosis typical of insects.
It's named "metamorph" in french, which is why I mixed it up.
I agree with most of your post, but I find it hard to believe they're playing this 4DChess game to help kids understand the concept of the "metamorphosis" of insects (pokemon is not a science-game after all and everyone knows catterpillars become butterflies) instead of the easier explanation that Satoshi Tajiri loves bug and decided to create a mon based on morpho butterflies. You don't have to be an expert entomologist for that. Just liking bugs enough to learn their names)
This always gave me red herring vibes.
>bugs are fish
moron
I can’t tell if this is actual moronation or irony. I don’t have much faith in the people here so it’s likely moronation and you don’t actually know what was meant by red herring.
moron
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They have already responded to that indirectly.
venomoth's design so lame kids would have been heartbroken when their first pokemon to fully evolve turned into that
how many times do we have to have this thread
not enough times
We know for example how the original gyarados looked completely different and yet the dragon we all know and love that came much later still is indexed at nº22
Sprites can be switched without messing with the index numbers so they don't mean much.
soulful sprites
I'm more mad they put such overlapping evolution lines in game where one of their spots could have been taken by something completely different. It's Pidgey and Spearow tier bullshit.
I don't hate Venomoth, I hate that Venonat gets ruined
Venomoth’s wings clearly don’t look like butterfly wings
see