> Day time to night time stage ratio is fricked, there are 8 main day time stages and 25 main night time stages > Mazuri is only a boss battle and and Empire city is cut entirely. > Sonic sounds like he's taking a shit everytime you push the boost button > No hub with the exception of the Gaia temple, everything outside the Gaia temple hubs is point and click
>No hub with the exception of the Gaia temple, everything outside the Gaia temple hubs is point and click
The Gaia Temple hubs are superior in design to both kinds of hubs featured in the HD version (stage entrances are all centralized with optional bonus content located off to the sides). Works better from a pacing standpoint.
They should have been the only kind of hub in both versions, really.
>established boostshit >got rid of 90% of the sonic cast for the rest of the series >has some of the worst hack and slash combat ever, so much so that they didn't try Combst in Sonic again until Frontiers
No, we aren't harsh enough on Unleashed.
boostshit
That was the Rush series, but it worked in 2D because it was a good risk vs reward system. Sure Rush loved bottomless pits, but that was better than all the bullshit Unleashed expects you to go through just to boost.
>combat
They should remake 06 as a dmc5 clone with 1 campaign switching between your 3 hedgehogs and make it a heavy hack and slash with unlocking attacks the same way.
Literal dmc5 template
>perfected boostshit and added other new moves for sonic that would be a part of his kit for years to come >got rid of 90% of the dogshit characters and focused on sonic himself >had some of the best graphics, music and setting >only bad thing is half assed combat
It's still better than most 3D Sonic games
>70% of a casual playthrough is a slog due to the Werehog, a mediocre at best GoW clone with brain dead-tier puzzles and a focus on platforming where the playable character has no drop shadow >said GoW clone also only becomes somewhat enjoyable once you've unlocked most moves through grinding a pointless rpg stat >you're additionally forced to engage with medal progression gates designed around exploring stages for hidden collectables, which the daytime controls are clearly not designed for, all in a blatant attempt at padding out the game's length >somebody thought putting the homing attack and the boost ability on the same button was a good idea >also the game is filled with QTEs up the ass
Sonic Unleashed is a great example of a mediocre game with stupid design decisions and horrible pacing issues that autists will actively defend just because they like the presentation.
>70% of a casual playthrough is a slog due to the Werehog
That's a bit much. It's really more like 55%. Maybe 60%. >a mediocre at best GoW clone
The combat with the Werehog is actually pretty decent. There's dozens of different combos to use, and you are rewarded for using them. >with brain dead-tier puzzles
That's being generous calling them "puzzles." "Padding" is the word I would use. Which is utterly moronic considering the sheer amount of it already in the game. They REALLY wanted to compensate for boostshit stages being shorter than the average 3D Sonic stage up to that point. >and a focus on platforming where the playable character has no drop shadow
Awful, awful design choice, yes. Second biggest flaw the game has, hands down. >said GoW clone also only becomes somewhat enjoyable once you've unlocked most moves through grinding a pointless rpg stat
True, but the EXP grind in Unleashed is nothing compared to the medal grind. Is it still stupid? Yes. Does it take hours to grind for? No. Literally just eat food from vendors in the hubs for EXP. That's it. A casual player will have figured this out rather quickly if they bother to look around the hubs at all. Still stupid, but it's not enough to really negatively impact the game in the same way some of your other (merited) criticisms do. For example: >medal progression gates
This is, and always was, Unleashed's biggest flaw, aside from the performance issues. The medal hunting caused a lot of people that played the game back in the day to drop the game outright. Absolutely mind-boggling decision. >homing attack button
Bizarre choice, yes. But the targeting reticles were a game changer for 3D Sonic and sort of made up for it. >QTEs
Third biggest flaw, easily.
I think I'm less defending the game and more frustrated at how good it could have been, because everything you said is more or less correct. Still, I would struggle to call it "shit" like most do. It's just a very flawed, but "okay" game.
No >Day stages are mid >Werehog is fine to play, but goes on for far too long >too many QTEs >the Tornado missions sucked >the hub worlds sucked >it retcons and copies many parts of Adventure 1 >the sun and moon metals were a terrible idea >only 1 werehog battle theme >barely works on emulator, no pc ports >too many loading screens
I really wanted to like the game based on the intro and presentation, but I can't stand playing it.
It's a flawed game but it's one of my favorites despite that. Most of its flaws are also small enough to where a remaster could fix them pretty handily.
I disagree completely regarding the Werehog gameplay and Sonic's characterisation though. The Werehog may not be "Sonic speed" but he still feels nimble enough as far as action game characters go and there are a lot of cool tricks I use when speedrunning a Werehog stage too, so they still feel like something you can speed run.
We weren't harsh enough. I used to hate boostshit for turning Sonic into a faster version of Pepsiman but over the years I've mellowed out. Now it's just boring when it's not being annoying. Night stages what can be said? One of the worst attempts Sonic Team has made to make it back to the big leagues.
And I don't know what people mean when they say the human characters are the best looking ones in the franchise, they're like knockoff Pixar, so aggressively generic they could be used in other series and stick out just as much.
>the movies established that Sonic humans could look human and not look terrible next to the cartoon hedgehogs
Funnily some of the changes made to Sonic's design in the movies (e.g. him having two eyes) was done specifically make him fit better next to realistic humans.
Ideally humans in Sonic should be consistent with the way Eggman is designed/stylized. Some characters in Unleashed (Prof. Pickle) fit this approach, but unfortunately most fell more towards the Pixar-style instead.
I think you could have normal-ish humans successfully. It would be better than Elise, The Sa2 humans, and the Shadow humans at least.
Also I want agent stone in the games. Eggman having a human sidekick that marches to his tune has been a highlight of the movies.
>I think you could have normal-ish humans successfully.
I don't really see why you would bother. Sonic and Eggman are stylized cartoon characters, so it makes sense that every other existing character in the series would generally fit the molds they establish, whether they're animals, human, etc.
Keyword here being "stylized". SA1's paper anime dolls, 06's realistic people, and Unleashed's Pixar npcs all have the same issues of looking generic in their own stylings, while also not being visually consistent with the IP's main characters. Ideally you'd get someone like Ohshima or someone that understands the nuances of his work to design human characters for the series, as his western+eastern approach to character design would probably be the best regarding a foundational baseline for non-animal npcs.
That's a stretch. The movies did have to make compromises like giving Sonic more realistic textures and whatnot to make him feel more like a real thing in the world rather than ripping the game model. A simple anime looking salarymen fits better than the more western attempts at humans in Sonic.
Yes, it was always kino and journos unfairly shat on it because hating Sonic was in vogue at the time and it had enough flaws that you could easily nitpick. The step up in quality from 06 and the sheer production values were insane and it is criminal that instead of getting recognition for this achievement the game was written off as "just another shitty 3D Sonic".
>sonicfan blames journos as if Sonic's reputation isn't deserved
What's next, it was youtubers who made Sonic unpopular?
The funny part is that Unleashed was well received by the media. I even remember some praising the GoW parts.
nta, but I remember Unleashed's reception being relatively all over the place.
Some called it decent, some called it mediocre, and some gave it lower review scores than 06, the last of which is what's usually in the mind of those who say it was "unfairly shat on".
The more negative ones probably came from Sonic fans, ironically. Sonic is always more hated by the people who hold it dearest while journalists will look at the likes of Sonic 4 and say it's good. As long as it's not as broken as 06 it's always a step in the right direction.
Don't get me wrong, Sonic IS seen as an acceptable punching bag and "close but no cigar" kind of series for a lot of people. The 3D games have always had a lot of jank and the one-two punch that was Shadow and 06 cratered its reputation. But Sonic isn't some poor victim, the series' schizophrenic reputation is deserved.
>The more negative ones probably came from Sonic fans, ironically.
If you read those reviews you can tell that's clearly not the case, but said low scores also didn't make up a majority of the game's reception either, Unleashedgays just like to act like that's the case because they don't want to accept that game is middling at best.
Nah, Mephiles should have been the Dark Samus to Shadow.
Right before the Biolizard dies, a piece of it survives, pulls the super form off of Shadow, absorbs it, mutates, and then becomes Mephiles. Mephiles would then have all the memories of Shadow and the Biolizard, and it would make sense as to why he looks like Shadow, why he wants to destroy humanity and turn Shadow to the dark side. This way the end of Sonic Adventure 2 would flow into Sonic Adventure 3.
Would make for a better origin instead of... Solaris exploded, then split into a Fire Monster... and Satan?
I think this is the first Unleashed thread over ever seen where people are praising it like mindless zombies because “MUH GRAPHICS AND INTRO!!!” And are actually calling it out for being mediocre
The PS360 version deserved it. The Wii version is fine.
Based.
SD Unleashed > HD Unleashed and it's about time we all admitted it.
I agree. Only the final boss was better on 360
>pic
kino
> Day time to night time stage ratio is fricked, there are 8 main day time stages and 25 main night time stages
> Mazuri is only a boss battle and and Empire city is cut entirely.
> Sonic sounds like he's taking a shit everytime you push the boost button
> No hub with the exception of the Gaia temple, everything outside the Gaia temple hubs is point and click
HD is superior
>No hub with the exception of the Gaia temple, everything outside the Gaia temple hubs is point and click
The Gaia Temple hubs are superior in design to both kinds of hubs featured in the HD version (stage entrances are all centralized with optional bonus content located off to the sides). Works better from a pacing standpoint.
They should have been the only kind of hub in both versions, really.
This some serious history revisionist copium from poor kids whose parents couldn't afford a 360, holy shit.
I've played both versions and the 360 version is clearly the ones Sonic Team actually wants people to remember.
daily reminder that unleashed established the sonic cycle
>established boostshit
>got rid of 90% of the sonic cast for the rest of the series
>has some of the worst hack and slash combat ever, so much so that they didn't try Combst in Sonic again until Frontiers
No, we aren't harsh enough on Unleashed.
boostshit
That was the Rush series, but it worked in 2D because it was a good risk vs reward system. Sure Rush loved bottomless pits, but that was better than all the bullshit Unleashed expects you to go through just to boost.
>combat
They should remake 06 as a dmc5 clone with 1 campaign switching between your 3 hedgehogs and make it a heavy hack and slash with unlocking attacks the same way.
Literal dmc5 template
>perfected boostshit and added other new moves for sonic that would be a part of his kit for years to come
>got rid of 90% of the dogshit characters and focused on sonic himself
>had some of the best graphics, music and setting
>only bad thing is half assed combat
It's still better than most 3D Sonic games
>70% of a casual playthrough is a slog due to the Werehog, a mediocre at best GoW clone with brain dead-tier puzzles and a focus on platforming where the playable character has no drop shadow
>said GoW clone also only becomes somewhat enjoyable once you've unlocked most moves through grinding a pointless rpg stat
>you're additionally forced to engage with medal progression gates designed around exploring stages for hidden collectables, which the daytime controls are clearly not designed for, all in a blatant attempt at padding out the game's length
>somebody thought putting the homing attack and the boost ability on the same button was a good idea
>also the game is filled with QTEs up the ass
Sonic Unleashed is a great example of a mediocre game with stupid design decisions and horrible pacing issues that autists will actively defend just because they like the presentation.
>70% of a casual playthrough is a slog due to the Werehog
That's a bit much. It's really more like 55%. Maybe 60%.
>a mediocre at best GoW clone
The combat with the Werehog is actually pretty decent. There's dozens of different combos to use, and you are rewarded for using them.
>with brain dead-tier puzzles
That's being generous calling them "puzzles." "Padding" is the word I would use. Which is utterly moronic considering the sheer amount of it already in the game. They REALLY wanted to compensate for boostshit stages being shorter than the average 3D Sonic stage up to that point.
>and a focus on platforming where the playable character has no drop shadow
Awful, awful design choice, yes. Second biggest flaw the game has, hands down.
>said GoW clone also only becomes somewhat enjoyable once you've unlocked most moves through grinding a pointless rpg stat
True, but the EXP grind in Unleashed is nothing compared to the medal grind. Is it still stupid? Yes. Does it take hours to grind for? No. Literally just eat food from vendors in the hubs for EXP. That's it. A casual player will have figured this out rather quickly if they bother to look around the hubs at all. Still stupid, but it's not enough to really negatively impact the game in the same way some of your other (merited) criticisms do. For example:
>medal progression gates
This is, and always was, Unleashed's biggest flaw, aside from the performance issues. The medal hunting caused a lot of people that played the game back in the day to drop the game outright. Absolutely mind-boggling decision.
>homing attack button
Bizarre choice, yes. But the targeting reticles were a game changer for 3D Sonic and sort of made up for it.
>QTEs
Third biggest flaw, easily.
I think I'm less defending the game and more frustrated at how good it could have been, because everything you said is more or less correct. Still, I would struggle to call it "shit" like most do. It's just a very flawed, but "okay" game.
if you actually played it at the time you would feel like you've bought a knockoff god of war with some of the worst framerate issues seen on 360.
No
>Day stages are mid
>Werehog is fine to play, but goes on for far too long
>too many QTEs
>the Tornado missions sucked
>the hub worlds sucked
>it retcons and copies many parts of Adventure 1
>the sun and moon metals were a terrible idea
>only 1 werehog battle theme
>barely works on emulator, no pc ports
>too many loading screens
I really wanted to like the game based on the intro and presentation, but I can't stand playing it.
It's a flawed game but it's one of my favorites despite that. Most of its flaws are also small enough to where a remaster could fix them pretty handily.
I disagree completely regarding the Werehog gameplay and Sonic's characterisation though. The Werehog may not be "Sonic speed" but he still feels nimble enough as far as action game characters go and there are a lot of cool tricks I use when speedrunning a Werehog stage too, so they still feel like something you can speed run.
We weren't harsh enough. I used to hate boostshit for turning Sonic into a faster version of Pepsiman but over the years I've mellowed out. Now it's just boring when it's not being annoying. Night stages what can be said? One of the worst attempts Sonic Team has made to make it back to the big leagues.
And I don't know what people mean when they say the human characters are the best looking ones in the franchise, they're like knockoff Pixar, so aggressively generic they could be used in other series and stick out just as much.
>humans
I think if nothing else the movies established that Sonic humans could look human and not look terrible next to the cartoon hedgehogs
>the movies established that Sonic humans could look human and not look terrible next to the cartoon hedgehogs
Funnily some of the changes made to Sonic's design in the movies (e.g. him having two eyes) was done specifically make him fit better next to realistic humans.
Ideally humans in Sonic should be consistent with the way Eggman is designed/stylized. Some characters in Unleashed (Prof. Pickle) fit this approach, but unfortunately most fell more towards the Pixar-style instead.
It's funny that I also think Prof. Pickle is one of the few other humans I think fits with Sonic and both he and Eggman have their eyes covered.
I think you could have normal-ish humans successfully. It would be better than Elise, The Sa2 humans, and the Shadow humans at least.
Also I want agent stone in the games. Eggman having a human sidekick that marches to his tune has been a highlight of the movies.
>I think you could have normal-ish humans successfully.
I don't really see why you would bother. Sonic and Eggman are stylized cartoon characters, so it makes sense that every other existing character in the series would generally fit the molds they establish, whether they're animals, human, etc.
Keyword here being "stylized". SA1's paper anime dolls, 06's realistic people, and Unleashed's Pixar npcs all have the same issues of looking generic in their own stylings, while also not being visually consistent with the IP's main characters. Ideally you'd get someone like Ohshima or someone that understands the nuances of his work to design human characters for the series, as his western+eastern approach to character design would probably be the best regarding a foundational baseline for non-animal npcs.
That's a stretch. The movies did have to make compromises like giving Sonic more realistic textures and whatnot to make him feel more like a real thing in the world rather than ripping the game model. A simple anime looking salarymen fits better than the more western attempts at humans in Sonic.
Yes, it was always kino and journos unfairly shat on it because hating Sonic was in vogue at the time and it had enough flaws that you could easily nitpick. The step up in quality from 06 and the sheer production values were insane and it is criminal that instead of getting recognition for this achievement the game was written off as "just another shitty 3D Sonic".
>sonicfan blames journos as if Sonic's reputation isn't deserved
What's next, it was youtubers who made Sonic unpopular?
The funny part is that Unleashed was well received by the media. I even remember some praising the GoW parts.
nta, but I remember Unleashed's reception being relatively all over the place.
Some called it decent, some called it mediocre, and some gave it lower review scores than 06, the last of which is what's usually in the mind of those who say it was "unfairly shat on".
The more negative ones probably came from Sonic fans, ironically. Sonic is always more hated by the people who hold it dearest while journalists will look at the likes of Sonic 4 and say it's good. As long as it's not as broken as 06 it's always a step in the right direction.
Don't get me wrong, Sonic IS seen as an acceptable punching bag and "close but no cigar" kind of series for a lot of people. The 3D games have always had a lot of jank and the one-two punch that was Shadow and 06 cratered its reputation. But Sonic isn't some poor victim, the series' schizophrenic reputation is deserved.
>The more negative ones probably came from Sonic fans, ironically.
If you read those reviews you can tell that's clearly not the case, but said low scores also didn't make up a majority of the game's reception either, Unleashedgays just like to act like that's the case because they don't want to accept that game is middling at best.
Temple Run ass game. Anyone that wants a Sonic game oughtto 100% SA2 first.
>Jeff is a huge shadowgay
>Black Doom is in Shadow Generations
Sonic 4/Shadow movid will he about the Black comet.
Mephiles is a better rival for Shadow than Black Doom
Black doom sucks dick, but mephiles is really laughable. Dumbass “mastermind”.
Mephiles should have been written as Silver's nemesis
Nah, Mephiles should have been the Dark Samus to Shadow.
Right before the Biolizard dies, a piece of it survives, pulls the super form off of Shadow, absorbs it, mutates, and then becomes Mephiles. Mephiles would then have all the memories of Shadow and the Biolizard, and it would make sense as to why he looks like Shadow, why he wants to destroy humanity and turn Shadow to the dark side. This way the end of Sonic Adventure 2 would flow into Sonic Adventure 3.
Would make for a better origin instead of... Solaris exploded, then split into a Fire Monster... and Satan?
He's Solaris' Nobody
Then they should've made him single mindedly seeking Iblis instead of the angel of vengeance thing he had going on
I hated journos before it was cool.
Even as a kid i hated the werehog
I think this is the first Unleashed thread over ever seen where people are praising it like mindless zombies because “MUH GRAPHICS AND INTRO!!!” And are actually calling it out for being mediocre
Unleashed was good