Well, it's not strictly speaking dead. In fact, it's one of the most popular MMOs as three separate incarnations (neo-WoW retail, Classic retail, private servers). But the primary reason for immense decline of retail, I think, is /simply that it's not very good/. Yeah, lore's gone to shit but how much did I ever really care? Not much. Yeah, content updates are few and far between, but that's not the reason I'm not playing even the expansion launch. I don't exactly think that vertical progression and endgame-focused design are the best ones out there, but I've played a game with that kind of design for 10k+ hours anyway! And so on.
The number one problem is that neo-WoW just isn't good, irrespective of any major design decisions or whatever (bad designs can hurt, but a stellar implementation of bad design might still be palatable). Even moment-to-moment gameplay isn't very fun (relative to Wrath through MoP).
You say Neo-WoW as if Classic isn't Retail-lite trash. Even Vanilla is fricking trash because of shit like layering and cross-server and the terrible botting problem (at least private servers ban bots, but they have a whole host of other issues). And now they are appealing to stream trannies with Hardcore servers.
Fricking wow-token in classic man. It's all trash.
>Well, it's not strictly speaking dead
Mein Black person, nearly every week Blizzard is advertising something related to retail WoW; be it discount off the expansion, bonus XP & rep for a week, free week or two of game time. They are desperate for players to return. The only reason one could argue that WoW """isn't dead""" is because game time for retail applies to game time for Classic, and more people are playing classic. >inb4 anecdotes
Doesn't count.
No thanks. I dont like reading about another troony in the game, or all the leaders being mostly women while all the men are incompentent and/or evil. Nor the boring gameplay systems and skinner box grinding.
Every time I've opened battlenet I've got some fricking notification asking me to come back to dragonflight and enjoy a free 7 days or something. It's pathetic.
I love the cope of "dragonflight actually sold well!" when in reality if the numbers actually were good they would have announced them and used them as a marketing point, like they did every time before. Instead we are getting free trials and sales, which speaks volumes.
Yeah, the crazy thing is that they didn't announce initial sales figures and they said they were lower than SL. Expansions peak at launch, so DF's peak must have been less than 3.7 million, yet there are still people pulling this 5-7 million figure out of thin air.
It's not dead in the sense that someone who is dying of cancer isn't dead.
The reason it's dying is because it simply isn't a good investment of your time or money. $15 a month could be spent on many other much better entertainment packages that offer far more value per month, and the time it takes to level a new character or gear up for raids is a much larger investment than simply turning on an actually good game and having fun immediately.
And I'm someone who has played this game fairly religiously since the middle of Vanilla. I fricking bought Dragonflight. It isn't a good game. There's way better things to play right now.
>thinks grinding a profession over months+ for no real return because some poopsock glitched their shit the release week and cornered the market isnt a valid time investment
wat r u
casul?
It really was. Beginning of the end. If only they took it a more seriously. But then again, the way they treated the art style was a sign of things to come.
>If only they took it a more seriously.
Thunder King's story was very serious, but nobody took it seriously because everybody had their minds made up already by the kung fu panda meme
Whether you like it or not or it being good or not is irrelevant though, I love mop, but it was the first xpac where people saw the trailer and the art style and thought “okay,I’m good on this” cata is what nose dived the game in quality if we’re being genuine, though. That xpac was where the spirit of the game turn a hard turn in a different direction after WOTLK. Realistically though, the game was never gonna be the same after we killed arthas, that’s what everyone was waiting for. They were never gonna be able to course correct without him being looming in the background.
People who overfocus on pandas likely never played the xpack. By the time you're 90 you've seen more Yaungols and Mogus than Pandas, and make sure to ask again when you've cleared Throne of Thunder because you'll get the same answer.
You forget about pandas VERY quickly in MoP (especially since the race itself isn't bis for anything)
People praise Wrath and it was the peak sub count, it was also a garbage easy mode expansion that ripped out everything good about the first two expansions and replaced it with a lot of in game cutscenes of Arthas threatening you but not actually doing anything.
the frick are you talking about? Pandas were the peak expansion where everyone came back
if anything, WoD prepared the burial for WoW, Legion was fricking amazing, but then they released BFA and killed WoW for good
and why wouldn't they? the entire warcraft dev team is full of new people and all old devs left, why do you think they are closing literally every plotline out there and killing all characters?
>moron revisionist
pandaria only dropped off becuase of YEAR OF SIEEEEGE
it was fine before that, except for that shit with dailygate. which didnt last long.
>its the worst cause i say so
the 10mil players it went back above dont give a flying shit what you think. objectively it was WoWs last triumph before year of siege+WoD being shit cut it in half, and left it bleeding out. legion was only a bandaid.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>the 10mil players it went back above dont give a flying shit what you think. objectively it was WoWs last triumph
u wot m8?
10 months ago
Anonymous
>has MoP right there going 10M twice. >U WUT
cant read your own bullshit outdated graph?
like its obvious you tried to find one that proved your point but you couldnt even do that
even your shitty >source: trust me bro*
has it right there.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>can't read a graph
Yeah it shows right there that MoP is just part of a declining trend. There's nothing interesting in the sub count at all. The only interesting thing is how WoD went up to... the exact same 10 million you're trying to spruik MoP with.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>declining trend >literally the only one to fricking go back up at any point untill the graphs magical jump 3mil at the end very of it, which other sources dont corroborate.
your graph literally shows what i said happened, and im still calling it garbage and wrong.
just like you.
moron.
10 months ago
Anonymous
the only one to fricking go back up at any point
The uptick from 9.1 to 10 from Q2 to Q3? THIS is what you're sucking MoP's dick for? It's a barely noticeable blip on an unending fall you fricking moron.
>9% more subs!1???? this is literally saving wow!111 >gone the next quarter
lmao
>the frick are you talking about? Pandas were the peak expansion where everyone came back
Black person that's where the concurrent players began trending down.
LK/ Arthas wasn't charismatic, but he had presence.
DW was only seen during flashbacks, killing you while afk on a flight path, or like 1 quest where you run away from him.
Sha, fricking zandalari trolls, mantid, lolmanabomb garrosh felt disjointed and chaotic. poor story telling all and all.
All of Warlords of Draenor was just an excuse for bad fan fitction. Seriously their world's time line doesnt effect our's. You destroy the dark portal in the first 30 mins. That expansion didn't need to exist.
Legion was just WoD part 2 with better writing and world building. Granted it's pretty easy when you are scraping the nostalgia barrel for the last bit of creamy goodness. Each big bad was just a revolving door of death to reveal the bigger bad pulling the strings. No real build up. Gave Varian a heroic death to allow Anduin to grow. Vol'Jin gets shanked with a plot covered knife and sets up the dumbest story of all time. RiP Runas.
Battle for Azeroth. Christ. No real villain the whole expansion. No one likes Sylvannas or the fanficiton writer shipping her with his OC. We know it's happening the whole time, but can't do anything to stop it. Gotta pull out old gods again to distract us from bad writing.
Shadowlands was the chance to set up a proper villain from the start to the end. They dropped the ball so hard on this. First time we see him he's choke slamming Cairne from the top rope in the most poorly animated cutscene since pic rel. Through the whole expansion, Blizzard can't decide how the afterlife should fully work, so they just try and focus pandering.(There are AU draenor npcs here, which means our Guldan and AU Guldan are both here.) Uses Garrosh for the teaser. Kills him (forever) in another poorly animated cutscene. Arthas is brought back. Killed him (forever) again. Sylvannas and Tyrande, but get cured and redeemed and forgiven. "The Jailer" dies a b***h death surrounded by half conceived plots and dropped narratives. No respect.
Dragonflight has the most promise, villain wise, but the starting of it feels so fricking random.
The GRIMTOTEM (remember those guys? lol at least it's not the zandalari again) show up on the dragon island, which just revealed itself randomly after thousands of years, and broke the seal on a elemental dragon, that was far easier to break than any other elemental dragon seal. Laso there are centuars who have lived here for thousands of years, but they arent the same centaur that Princess Theradras birthed a couple hundred years ago across all of azeroth. Also they are all gay and need your help to marry eachtoher.
Anyways, Big angry dragon. Shows up during a fair amount of quests. Has presence in the world. Immediately killed, but replaced by 3 other dragons who take humanoid forms.
>The GRIMTOTEM (remember those guys? lol at least it's not the zandalari again)
its not the grimtotem. its a multi-race faction called "the primalists" who have some grimtotem members. we still dont exactly know who the primalists are or why they freed the elemental dragons. they apparently dont like the titans, even though they have humans and dwarves in their ranks
Phasing is antithetical to what makes a MMO fun. "content creators" play the game for money and dont know what people who just play for fun would want so their opinions are soulless and they should not be pandered too. Emphasis on hand tailored personalized story is antithetical to MMOs. Dailies are not fun, are stupid, and off putting.
You basically have a bunch of clueless boomer morons who have this "spiffy new technology" they want to handfist into their game where it doesnt fit at all(phasing). and a bunch of streamers who just want to catch the carrot at the end of the stick then show their moronic viewers how to do it to make money off of tutorial videos.
>splitting players up in different phases >splitting players up in like 50 different zones >splitting players up in 100+ different instanced dungeons >almost 0 world related stuff needed for endgame characters except some stuff from like the last 5-6 zones they released. 99% of content is outdated and only serves to be a speed bunp on the way to getting into the last 6 relevant zones.
its shit as an mmo. its shit as a single player game. You pretty much only have PvP minigame enjoyers and raid loggers. Both of those things are instanced features. They dont play to the Massive Multiplayer "world" of warcraft. they should rename it "the instanced phases of warcraft".
players up in like 50 different zones
this actually helped the players
as expansions went on, there were less and less zones because devs got lazy and less talented
current expansion has 4 or 5 zones
lvl 15 characters can find light feathers. even 60 mages want light feathers because it is a reagent used at all levels. That means endgame characters are trading with low lvl characters. lvl 20 elemental earths have a chance to drop elemental earth which is used in endgame crafting to help with endgame raids. There is an overlapping economy that 90% of the players are involved in and all stages of the game outside of the starting zone. Now the only reason low lvls have to trade with higher lvls is if those higher lvls want to "power level" their professions so they dont need to step foot in lower level content.
Did that shit work on bosses? Wow. You could do a lot of that sort of stuff before 1.12. Even after 1.12 you could stack some things to almost break the game. stoneskin totem was basically like wearing plate, taking off 7 damage at low lvl when mobs did 11-14 damage was huge. then warlock could put curse of weakness for another -7 damage dealt. so mobs would do like 1-4 damage per hit instead of 14-18.
>level 5 quest gives item that makes bosses miss 25% attacks >level 18 elementals drop a 30s CC
soul
>taking world out of wow by removing all such world elements from the game. >later take warcraft out of wow by retconning everything that ever happened in warcraft 2 & 3 >you're left with ???
this and the fact you no longer needed to communicate to do content
I remember making friends I still know today, because they had cool enchants for free at level 40 and then ran scholomance with me all day on level 60. Then when wrath hit, you were kicked out of party for talking in /p.
True.
My first player interaction in WoW back in like 2005 was trading a bunch of light leather with a lvl 30+ guy who saw me skinning bears in Darkshore.
Before that I was just vendoring them because I didn't know about the AH.
It's like the cripplingly anti-social were heavily catered to since now outside of instances you only need one person for anything.
>the cripplingly anti-social were heavily catered to
This is what I feel happened. WoW and MMOs in general live and die by their social aspects. Present day WoW has not only culled any social aspects but only ever cares about having incentives for playing The-Current-Endgame-Stuff.
I like classic WoW a lot because leveling and running into new people is the meat of the game. If only Raids didn't need such a huge amount of people.
>Phasing is antithetical to what makes a MMO fun
Servers are worse. The issue is that phasing in WoW sucks, it's way too aggressive: more than 10 people in the same zone? Nope, time to phase everyone out!
Phasing should be a seamless experience, switching between channels should be unnoticeable by the player. But in WoW you see people appearing and disappearing on front of your eyes all the time. You see a gatherable item five meters away, you walk there... whoopsie, you were phased to another channel!
yeah am I crazy to think making it so you don't even have to speak to another player is whats killing MMO's ? My first MMO you had to speak and know people to even get anything done since there were a lot of other classes that played roles into you making money
You're not, it's a major reason why modern MMOs suck. You don't meet new players, you just drop in and out of games like every other genre without ever really talking to them or connecting at all. Modern MMOs are closer to Phantasy Star Online in that regard than the actual MMOs like Everquest or FFXI.
yeah you are
because nobody actually wants mandatory social systems.
what people want is to be able to jump in and out of the game, with no strings attached, and have chaotic fun with as many people possible.
People dont want to have mandatory social systems they have to interact with.
People want a shared social experience they can engage with when they want.
Its the reason something like battlebit is a top seller on steam.
Its the reason Diablo 4 was praised for their mmo-lite features
Its the reason why gatcha rpgs are so popular
It's also the reason why every yard has a trampoline and all the kids play alone and become warped fricks, whereas in the past kids gathered and played in droves and could actually form entire baseball teams. Just because people want to consume convenient drugs doesnt mean that you should give it to them.
This. Frick those dickheads who want a good solo experience in a MMO of all games. The social aspect was the main reason WoW blew up since the was alot of people time online games in a world what you needed to group up to complete task.
More than half of these bozos still playing have ADHD, depression, or some anxiety problems where they prefer skipping the social part.
WoW blew up because you could do a lot more solo and it was casual friendly.
Previous MMOs were FAR more heavy on the requirement to interact with others.
Vanilla WoW was more solo-friendly than the games that came before it.
Too many people played WoW to act like the bulk of the popular came from older MMO players. WoW was most people first MMO or even online game like I said.
Only a small faction of the player base had deep enough experience with older MMOs to view them to WoW comparatively.
Wow blew up because blizzard was at the height of their popularity. They literally could do no wrong. Starcraft, Warcraft 3, Diablo 2. Every single household seemed to have at least one of these games near the PC.
in terms of exploring the world without having to check every single shadow to make sure a rapebeast won't pop out, yeah it was more single player friendly by far. but any content higher tier than killing trash mobs for quests required some level of social effort and patience
I don't think you played EQ or FFXI. Compared to those, the social element isn't very important in WoW. WoW was successful by killing the genre's social aspect that you're praising it for.
No actually but I played UO and RO, and met people that played EQ and XI. Part of WoW's massive success was striking some level of balance between solo and group content. The importance of the social aspect also ramps up depending on how hardcore you want to be. You don't get soft locked at level 10 just because you got unlucky and picked the "wrong" class that very few people want to group with, but also with poor networking skills you are going to have unsuccessful dungeon runs, raiding, and guild cohesion regardless of any character build choices.
the true casualization of WoW and consequentially MMOs as a whole didn't come til a few years later
10 months ago
Anonymous
If you played in vanilla wow or wow classic, it’s very apparent that the game was designed for groups. You could solo a great deal but you weren’t going to have the greatest time and eventually you’re going to need to group up to get quests done. That started to die in tbc when they removed a lot of elite areas so you could do those quests solo
To me the line >Without a Lich King, the scourge will grow to become an even greater threat! There must always be a Lich King!
was the turning point, where I realized there was no plan, no consistency, know vision beyond Wrath
It won't get onto gamepass?
Or it won't be dogpiled with crappy microtransactions?
10 months ago
Anonymous
We honestly dont know what will happen but we're all curious of what the change will be. It could get worse sure.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Blizzard has failed to consistently put out good games in recent years
While Diablo IV was received better than Overwatch 2 and WoW: Dragonflight, it's still not good enough and they have work to do to regain trust
10 months ago
Anonymous
it wont get funded, and will be put on the backburner with content drip thats just enough to keep subs going. I'd be surprised if they even give enough of a frick to make new microtransactions.
If you think MSFT gives a shit about WoW you're delusional as frick
Go read the numbers that are now public given the public trial with the MSFT aquisition
What MSFT wants is CoD and King Games which are massive.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>M$ keeps bankrolling ESO, which has a fraction of wow's playerbase >this moronic troon thinks they don't care about the biggest MMO in the world
The dudgeon finder feature/ server groups were the inflection point for me. It really hurt the community aspect of the game. All downhill from there imo. also the pandas were moronic.
When Activision bought Blizzard in 2008 and then everything went from "gameplay first" to "monetization first". That's when they started introducing all sorts of extremely casual things and they implemented the cash shop as well.
Automation was the downfall of MMOs as a whole. What was once a genre where you had to talk and interact with people is no more. The most you'll find is coomers.
That's the problem. Is the coomers already had their circles. They never had to rely on automation. There's a reason why the people in goldshire are 40-50 year old chainsmokers. Cause they've been doing this shit since EQ.
But thanks to automation now being the norm. The genre has changed for the worse. Not enough new blood is coming in to the old MMO style because the big MMOs these days don't have communication requirements. The closest we got to returning was Classic WoW. Which Blizzard has effectively tried killing with poor decisions.
i played classic and never spoke to people lol. id spam "lf2m mages for spellcleave zf", go to the dungeon, and never say a word. i dont understand the automation boogeyman. people dont want to talk to strangers anymore, automating group finders didnt cause that
Here's how we save WoW:
Blizzard just needs to poach Yoshi-Piss
WoW has a better base to work with compared to the garbage of spaghetti that is XIV that cant even handle jumping properly.
But don't let him anywhere near the combat designers
The reason WoW is dying is because it's been doing almost the exact same thing over and over again for 20 years. Naoki "play it safe and don't rock the boat" Yoshida wouldn't change that.
>The reason WoW is dying is because it's been doing almost the exact same thing over and over again for 20 years.
yet vanilla classic was the most successful wow has been in a decade. Clearly they've not been doing the same thing enough when most people would rather go back to the old version.
>The reason WoW is dying is because it's been doing almost the exact same thing over and over again
No, it's dying cause it keeps trying to be different and expanding to more and more broad audiences. All this
>over and over
shit is false. The reason no one likes it cause devs keep trying to do shit differently.
>it keeps trying to be different
pop quiz, guess what wow expansion im describing >theres raids >theres m+ >theres wqs >theres arena
oops, thats the past 4 expansions. nothing in wow has changed in SEVEN YEARS. the devs arent doing anything differently
Raiding and arena.
The game should have been about world bosses, world pvp and 40v40 battleground.
God, I hate e-sports Black folk and speedrunners so much.
>wow is dead >still the most popular mmo >others mmos are dead >they're dead
just now wow has over 51k viewers on twitch
it completely shits on every other mmo
drop the cope, troons, and BOW to the KING of MMOs
WOW was not shot dead in the streets one day, it kept getting shanked over the years since vanilla until it eventually succumbed to blood loss. What killed WOW was every single update that chipped away at the world's sense of community and it's interactivity for the sake of "accessibility". Too many casual scum joined the game so it died. Anons already said it but the game got less World with each update until it became just Warcraft.
>come back to wow after long years >immediately shoves you into BFA >shits scaled for some reason but items aren't so you can't quest in old areas until you get past cap and get gear or you get mogged by level 30 basic cats in the starting area because you are wearing level 5 gear >the entirety of chormietime and it's complete disregard for lore or cohesive story >LITERALLY 0 CLUE ON HOW TO FOLLOW THE STORY FROM THE START, JUST GET FRICKED IF YOU WANTED TO GO THROUGH THE QUESTS
they just straight up ruined it and i have 0 clue why
even if you followed the story by methodically going through all expansions in order, it's fricked because all the closures are in raids and a bunch of important events were limited-time prepatch quests
Jailer if you only look at quest text and cutscenes >Thanos rip-off that's apparently behind everything in a massive retcon
Jailer if you use random lore booklets that don't appear until you have no reason to visit an area again, environmental storytelling, and the cash-grab IRL books: >a powerless man with infinite failures getting stabbed in the back for nearly all of time because he wanted to call a repairman to do some routine maintenance
scaled for some reason but items aren't so you can't quest in old areas until you get past cap and get gear or you get mogged by level 30 basic cats in the starting area because you are wearing level 5 gear
the classic zones scale from 1-30 and every zone in the game scales with chromie time
>LITERALLY 0 CLUE ON HOW TO FOLLOW THE STORY FROM THE START, JUST GET FRICKED IF YOU WANTED TO GO THROUGH THE QUESTS
It's impossible to give you clues for something that's impossible to do. Huge chunks of quests, many really important to the plot, juat plain do not exist anymore.
just like wildstar the business venture did. All they gave a shit about was numbers and the blizzard teams could no longer had full creative freedom to do as they please with their product.
>But because WoW started copying it and focusing on characters and narrative
I'd argue it's the combination of that but while still keeping the actual players as some sort of non-entity that barely gets acknowledged by the characters. Like trying to force XIV's method of storytelling into a game that never readied the grounds for a story like that. Seeing characters like Sylvanas or Anduin get all emotional or moralistic always makes me cringe a little, not because the message itself might be wrong and it sure as frick is a lot of the time, frick you Sylvanas but because it feels like some character who's nowhere near the point where they can afford to say that shit and be taken seriously trying to say that shit, if that makes sense.
that one dev who has a crush on sylvanus and pushed his obvious self insert nathalos whatever-his-name-is absolutely ruined a ton of the lore due to catering to his stupid fricking cringe pathetic homosexual femdom fetish
Unironically just the passage of time. There comes a point where too much content becomes a negative thing, no one wants to grind a mount when there are 700 other mounts in the game.
Classic (vanilla) is doing well because it is simply frozen in time.
overwatch killed wow >make billions of dollars from wow >dont reinvest them into wow >spend them on making a new game >new game sucks >force wow devs to help fix new game >it still sucks >due to the lack of funds and devs, wow begins to suck too
Time
Online games have the advantage to be filled with life, but everything that is alive will eventually die. You have to accept that WoW is not immortal.
You're talking about shit you know noting about. If it were even remotely true there would not be tens of thousands of people logging in to vanilla servers every day.
Because it was their childhood game they played as a young kid. It's pure nostalgia.
Everyone here will say no other MMO is/was as good as WoW, despite them not playing anothing other.
There was not a single reason to play WoW post 2011-2012 >PvP
Got killed by MOBAs / ARTS games like league hon and dota, games actually balanced with PvP in mind. >RPG elements
There are single player games that do it so much better its not even funny. > "The Social Element"
Lmao. Who the frick would use subpar mediums like text only videogame chats when Social Media exists and everyone with a smartphone is on it.
Even further killed by things like Discord who is now comming for the remaining niche forums > PVE
The Combat is completely shit. The animations are shit. The graphics are shit. > The "Story" and the "Lore"?
Nobody cares or gives a shit about anything post WOTLK. > Raids?
Why the frick would you play PVE raids against a badly designed npc with a bunch of morons, when you can play actually challenging games like soulslike games, where when beating it you actually feel rewarded.
No they weren't otherwise they wouldn't have died
WoW really kills everything in its path because no studio wants to invest a lot of money into actually making a good MMO
It's the opposite. Wildstar was bad because it was too fricking easy. It was such a moronic idea to have blocky kid-like indicators for EVERYTHING in the game. The #1 rule for that game was literally just to move out of red indicators and then you beat everything in the game with ease.
warhammer age of reckoning has a private server
unfortunate, its dominated by a cancerous powertripping Black personhomosexual of an admin who unironically has a cult of ass-kissers on the forums
and of course he is dead set on keeping dps WP from being good. because of course he is.
Wildstar was shit, Warhammer Online had potential but EA killed it by forcing it to release early and incomplete, I heard SWG was fun but I never ended up playing it.
>but EA killed it by forcing it to release early and incomplete
Marc Jacobs was VERY likely the reason why the game was so incomplete, not EA. See how he has been running the Camelot Unchained project. 10 years in the making and the game is literally still in an insanely early alpha stage.
People forgot what Warcraft is. Blizzard forgot what Warcraft was. With WotLK the ties to the actual WORLD of WARCRAFT ended and the game became just another MMO like any other.
It was the death of the community. The final nail was phasing people into other realities. And cross server play that ruined it for me.
Killing Arthas with a group of 10 boys from my class room is one of my most treasured memories. Spending weeks trying to get the group stronger and better, and one late night we did it.
>how DARE you use this platform on which video game companies pay big bucks to advertise their games as a metric to gauge popularity >you should trust my shitposts instead!!!!!!!!!!!!
>doesn't count!
Yeah thanks for confirming that Twitch is no way an indicator at all how popular a game is.
And ironic that you mention that only 8 year old plays Roblox, when the exact same thing used to be said about WoW.
10 months ago
Anonymous
i gave you logical explanations
meanwhile, here you have
Lol
a bunch of MMOs known and played in the west, and which WoW still crushes
cope some more
10 months ago
Anonymous
Because MMO's is a shit genre to watch someone play? The only reason people watch "WoW" on Twitch is the streamer and not the game. A single streamer can play a game that nobody heard about and Twitch would say that game has 50k viewers, does that make the game a super popular game in your moronic mind?
Last replay I will make to you btw.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Technically, this means WoW has more of an entertaining aspect if it's that popular. FFXIV has "clubs" and such all the time, but what other content do they have to draw players to it? Usually none. At least with WoW, you can learn stuff from experts.
10 months ago
Anonymous
ok, so why don't the other mmos attract streamers that people want to watch?
because they're SHIT and DEAD
i accept your concession
MLBB is one of the biggest multiplayer games in the world, with over 13 million DAUs, even surpassing the League of Legends estimates of 10-11 million DAUs
It has 1.1k viewers on Twitch
Twitch viewership. as a metric, is irrelevant and only shoesize iq homosexuals use it.
>MLBB
How the frick is a game like this allowed to exist and become the #1 game in the world, when it's literally a 95% copy/paste of LoL, but with shorter matches, and for mobile?
Allowing China to get away with shit like this is so weird.
Riot sued.
Calfornian Courts dissmissed it
Then Tencent sued for violation of noncompetes in Shanghai and won, and was awarded 2.9 mil USD.
Then MLBB shit on them by not allowing teams to have LoL Wild Rift teams.
I've always been trying to figure it out. Who is even watching the streams? I bounced around Mythic guilds for about 5 years and maybe 1 person out of a given raid group would ever even talk about them. Who the frick are the steady 20k watching WoW?
It's not a WoW thing, it's a Twitch+Blizz thing. A lot of streamers started out on Blizzard games and it just carried on in Twitch culture. WoW's placement among top viewed games seems more appropriate on Kick, whatever boost WoW gets from the platform culture isn't really in play there.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Kick
Kick is still small enough that categories will be carried by a single streamer. You're right about Blizzard games being really ingrained as Twitch games though, that shit goes back to justin.tv.
10 months ago
Anonymous
It goes back to xfire even
10 months ago
Anonymous
>kick
that site is dead my guy
10 months ago
Anonymous
the opinion of anyone who says "my guy" is worth about as much as the methane in my colon at any given moment.
they got comfortable, started catering to the casuals, and drove off the raiders
then they were left with a bunch of squabbling babies who idle outside the ah and scam new players
NEVER CATER TO CASUALS, FORGET ABOUT THE MONEY THEY BRING, IT'S TEMPORARY AND WILL ALWAYS DOOM YOUR GAME
Blizzard being inept one way and one reason or another.
Many franchises, or forms of media get so big that no real external force can kill it. WoW became extremely popular, and a household name in terms of video games, and like it or not, it shaped part of the industry for better or worse.
You can hear so many people talking fondly about blowing days upon days in WoW, and having a great time, and it has lasted so long that some people just grew up with it. Many people became diehard fans, and refused to quit wow. If it weren't for blizzard being incredibly fricking stupid I'm sure many of those diehard fans would still be playing. Instead blizzard mismanaged their game, player/customer relations, and everything in between. The only thing that is going to kill a media giant is itself, and you can see this in many fields. It's funny to look back and see how many games came out, and how many people hyped those games up as "The WoW killer!" only for most of them to die out in a year, or two, or be complete shit. Anytime a game is mostly hyped up, and marketed as it is going to be the killer of another titan in media you can immediately know it is going to be shit.
TL:DR
Blizzard being fricking pants on head moronic killed WoW.
In WoW there's official RP servers where people are EXTREMELY into it, to the point that you'll get banned if you don't roleplay properly, if you have a non-RP name, if you disrupt others, and shit like that.
WoW has become so shit most RP servers are dead. Scrolls of Lore is dead. Everything is dead.
Maybe there's an RP server or two still alive in Classic where the lore hasn't been annihilated but don't get your hopes up.
it was doomed from the start. you can't tack on more gear progression after a finished base game. that's why vanilla was when the game felt the best. beyond that it just devolved into minigames gatekept behind an archaic leveling system that they put in "just because"
they also had to constantly try and reinvent the wheel to justify all their game designers, which is moronic since they nailed certain aspects of the game relatively early on, like talent trees.
they should've focused way more on just expanding the social and community aspect of the game instead of forcing new gameplay mechanics and raids into the game
It's luster has already began to fade, they're late on the trend AND they're handling it worse than private servers are.
They needed to release SoM2 early summer and have a HC mode added onto it, that's all they had to do and they fricked it up.
No, Blizzard fricked it up hard not simply adding a HC mode into som2, making a HC only server is moronic, they literally can't do anything right, also all the rules they're tacking onto it are moronic too.
https://i.imgur.com/eKtKXHm.jpg
What actually killed World of Warcraft?
Devs stopped trying to make a living breathing world and focused on making a skinner box
Casuals did.
And the mechanism was listening to them and changing the game to cater to the literally 10 people on the WoW forums pissing and moaning about how it's unfair XYZ person has gear and they don't and how they don't have time to raid (which was always bullshit). It was a slow change over time. Imperceptible at first but at some point it went from subtle to overly noticeable. I think the real moment WoW became unsalvageable and began its descent into time-wasting meaninglessness was WoD.
I think another reason, aside from casuals, the game is shit now is the obsession with raid tiers and the obsolescence of old content.
In Classic some items from "old raids" and even from dungeons and from quests were still good and desired regardless of "current tier." That should have always been the choice. Now it's just NUMBER GO UP and every item is just some random spreadsheet thing with no feeling or perception of lore behind it, no uniqueness, items can proc epic or warforged or like leech or whatever and it's just fricking dumb, the game's literally devolved into BIG NUMBER
yeah that sounds nice and all but its fricking awful if you come back to the game later and need those old items. nobody wants to run the old raids except other people who need those specific items. the past 3 wow expansions had crap like that (legion had elisande trinket, bfa had squid boss trinket, shadowlands had rogue daggers from sylvanas) and trying to make groups for those fricking sucked
Look at the state of classic right now. GDKP min/max autism has absolutely destroyed the community and any sense of progression, and that is entirely on the playerbase
a 24 year old (me who is 25 in august) is in fact is a zoomer. too fricking bad buddy...
10 months ago
Anonymous
So if we go by textbook definitions, then boomers are from 1946-1964. That's 59-77 year olds. Don't you see how it's ridiculous to only follow textbook definitions in this case too?
10 months ago
Anonymous
you're old. you're aging. you're twice my age. cope.
10 months ago
Anonymous
I'm only 32. People have called me boomer many times though.
10 months ago
Anonymous
i turned 30 a month ago and I internally updated to think of myself as an over the hill boomer basically instantly
its over
10 months ago
Anonymous
I turned 30 today. It's fricking over bros.
10 months ago
Anonymous
wait till you get 40. It get's better, by then you stop giving a shit
10 months ago
Anonymous
I turned 33 2 weeks ago and I feel really good. I keep dabbling with asking out this 18 year old zoomer girl at my gym who won’t stop talking or staring at me, but I feel in my gut it’s not a good idea. Getting old isn’t too bad, I give way less of a shit about a lot of stuff I stressed out over in my 20s. It’s so liberating
>Original devs leave over the years >New devs look at WoW killers (just copycat versions of the game but worse) for inspiration >WoW becomes more and more like them designwise
One of the Riot MMO devs said it pretty well, the "WoW killers" tried to be WoW instead of taking the good parts of it and doing their own thing instead.
Blizzard got utterly mindbroken when they lost DotA in 2009 and started chasing esports like mad. Even ended up shoving 2 failed esports into WoW while the only successful one is the one that Blizzard has no hand in.
WOTLK was the signal of it being more involved with activision
by the time it was mid expansion, they'd already farmed out the roles of GMs to call lentres
Feedback was no longer taken on board on the forums really
It's not dead. But it's not a 'fun mmo with the players fun being number one'. It's all about cash intake now and optimizing it for bot farmers
>optimizing it for bot farmers
I think they designed it for boost culture to sell tokens. Why would there be borderline unplayable M+ weeks if not to get people to buy a token for an M+ boost conveniently priced at one token?
There always have been a hilarious amount of bots too though, until SL all of Gorgrond had unplayable lag because of the bots zoning in and out of iron docks. I thought the WoW token was supposed to combat this shit.
More of a question of what can kill it? I know horribly addicted people who have been playing since the fricking beta (2004ish I think). They literally only have WoW in their life. Nothing but dwindling neetbux and WoW.
How do you off ramp from this game? How do you help someone?
WHAT DOES IT TAKE?
Thats the thing, with these guys it seems there is nothing that blizzard can do to stop them playing it.
They have apparent complete acceptance of how bad it is, how bad blizzard is and the game is beyond the point. Gay dragons are moronic and the social contract is cancer, the gameplay sucks and the loops are boring etc.
And yet their life is still being dumped into it. I just can't work it out
>Gay dragons are moronic
agreed >and the social contract is cancer,
never understood why people even cared about this. you already agreed to the tos. its the same thing >the gameplay sucks and the loops are boring etc
the gameplay and gameplay loops are unironically better than ever before
>the gameplay and gameplay loops are unironically better than ever before
How so? My understanding is that pve is very streamlined and impersonal, on top of pvp being manipulated to hell with some kind of in group weird system
not saying you're wrong, trying to understand
nta, but with 10.1 they added a new item upgrade system with a new currency which basically drops from everything, and every piece of gear is now upgradeable
so you can do only world content stuff and still progress your character
in a limited fashion, you won't reach mythic ilevel, but still. decent enough to feel like your time wasn't wasted
10 months ago
Anonymous
So to summarise for a retad such as myself, its taken a small step towards diablo lets say? You can go and kill anything, big packs and such and you can progress solo?
Then jump into like 10 man mythic on the finder (5 man?) and continue progression kind of thing? Then heroic? Bit smoother and more approaches to reach content type of stuff?
10 months ago
Anonymous
i don't know how diablo is
but yes, you can farm and upgrade stuff just by doing quests and shit
that gets you into low keys. which then gets you into LFR. and so on
10 months ago
Anonymous
raids have 4 difficulties looking for raid (tourist mode just so casuals can see the raid), normal, heroic and mythic
dungeons have normal for leveling, heroic (you can queue and spam these, but nobody does because the rewards are crap), and mythic.
dungeons are like diablo rifts now. they scale from mythic+2 to +20. +20s are supposed to be as difficult as mythic raids, +2s are as easy as looking for raid. they give loot appropriate to their difficulty. you can upgrade gear up to a certain cap (cant upgrade something from a +2 all the way to +20, think it caps at like +10) and you get upgrade materials from running dungeons or beating raid bosses
>pve is very streamlined and impersonal
I mean it seems like you don't really need to work with people at all. You can teleport around and just group/raid find. A different class gets op and you can just buy a level 100 and start the usual grind even. In many ways if you knew what you were doing you wouldn't have to speak to a single soul.
If that were the case (might not be) my only thought is why bother? You don't have the mmo part of mmorpg any more, so any other good RPG is instantly better.(without the subscription, respects time, without mobile game tier monetisation etc)
how good can those buttons really feel to press?
theres no automatic group finder for raids or m+. you can unlock dungeon teleports if you beat them at +20. everything is still puggable and you are expected to know how to play your class/how to deal with dungeon mechanics beforehand so you dont need to talk. people still socialize before and after dungeons
10 months ago
Anonymous
very interesting, appreciated. Is the raid design on the up? what kind of thing is making it stand out right now if so?
Has there been times when the raiding wasn't so good at all (over the years I mean)?
this info is very helpful
10 months ago
Anonymous
the last 2 raids of the previous expansion were super hard with convoluted mechanics and everybody hated them. a bunch of people complained that addons were mandatory for a few fights and that blizz was designing fights with addons in mind. the 2 raids in this expansion have been mechanically simple and havent required any addons. the fights are still fun, they just didnt have bullshit split second organizational requirements like the previous expansion
10 months ago
Anonymous
Oh that's very interesting and is bringing some memories back of conversations a while back. I do want to ask how the economy / auction house is but you've been very obliging so I'll just say thanks.
>pve is very streamlined and impersonal
I have no idea what this even means
wows combat is better than its ever been. some people will say mop is the peak i guess. i havent seen a single person going "wow my spec sucks i wish it played the way it played back in xyz expansion". m+ and the raid are both fun. you can gear up incredibly quickly if youre good at the game. dont know what else to say really > pvp being manipulated to hell with some kind of in group weird system
ive never cared about rated pvp but its so dead that its really easy to rig games apparently. lots of super high ranking people are getting matched with lower ranking people, or selling boosts
10 months ago
Anonymous
>pve is very streamlined and impersonal
I mean it seems like you don't really need to work with people at all. You can teleport around and just group/raid find. A different class gets op and you can just buy a level 100 and start the usual grind even. In many ways if you knew what you were doing you wouldn't have to speak to a single soul.
If that were the case (might not be) my only thought is why bother? You don't have the mmo part of mmorpg any more, so any other good RPG is instantly better.(without the subscription, respects time, without mobile game tier monetisation etc)
how good can those buttons really feel to press?
10 months ago
Anonymous
>I mean it seems like you don't really need to work with people at all. You can teleport around and just group/raid find.
Automatic groupfinder w/ teleport content is LFR, normal and heroic dungeons. The former is only ever relevant to dribblers and the latter is "relevant" for a short period, if at all
The stuff without that is Mythic and M+ dungeons, and every other difficulty of raid; normal, HC and Mythic. Basically everything worth doing.
As long as new mounts, pets, and achievements are added? Likely there's always going to be people playing. There are actually people whose only video game is WoW and they don't care.
An actual, decent MMO.
There still hasn't been a single MMO that has the responsiveness that WoW has. Every time I try a new MMO abilities feel sluggish as hell, the UI is a complicated mess, and the story is meh at best.
Even at WoW's worst times the combat is way better than any MMO to ever exist. It's honestly sad.
people say this but every time I've tried to go back to the game I get hung up on how clunky the GCD and tab target system is and how enemies feel like a chore to kill, with basically zero feedback on anything you do
that's not to say another MMO does it better (maybe GW2) but the combat and movement just aren't as special as everyone makes it out to be, frankly I've been having a lot more fun playing runescape lately and it's the slowest, jankiest mmo on the market
they're not really special, it's just the least shit one most people have ever encountered. like you said, GW2 MIGHT be better, but for some reason skill set being tied to weapon type is kinda meh.
They've been doing >new expac every two years with 4-6 new zones >new patch every six month consisting of a new raid and maybe a new dungeon or new zone to go with it >outside of raiding and PVP, the content will consist of doing dailies to raise a reputation and keep up on the gear treadmill >gradual reductions in the amount of friction (read: social interaction or class/world fantasy) required to engage with content
for almost twenty years now. The game is just a bunch of shit stacked on top of itself, there's no actual world left at all (which is why people wanted classic and why the classic playerbase didn't peak with TBC or WotLK). It's completely inscrutable to new players and has gotten old for veterans.
Long-term WoW player. For me what sold me on Warcraft was its potential. Blizzard had that disney magic, they had a wealth of different eras and stories that could be animated, pitched as a movie, or an alternative video game like Total Warhammer or Skyrim.
But instead the franchise has lost all digity, selling its integrity and confidence a dollar at a time. Its as Steve Jobs said, a company eventually turns away from the Developers and to the sales people who just spoil the vision.
(AND STEVE DAUSER'S GAY FRICKING MARVEL QUIP WRITING)
Adding to my thoughts - It was the creative element as well with plenty of Machinima that was made at the time. Illegal Danish, Arthas God is pissed off at you, and the Guild. The WoW music video pardoies and songs.
Gays and women killed it.
We might not have some work of art on our hands, but we'd at least have something enjoyable to play if a bunch of straight white men were left alone to create big sweaty men with huge shoulders and drink breast milk all day.
The minute you let in people with lots of opinions and no skills, you've killed it.
Is this from the actual game? Is there an actual bad dragon race now? jfc this is so embarrassing lol. please tell me this is fake, this picture tells you everything you need to know about blizzard now. Its full of cringey morons. I can smell the sweat off the clear framed glasses croc wearing idiot that suggested this from here.
yeah thats the new playable race/class called dracthyr. they were neltharions super soldiers that he hid away this entire time because ??? also females and males look exactly the same, no boobs or extra bulky muscles or anything
i have no idea why they didnt make drakonids playable. thats what people actually wanted
>Mike Morhaime, the cofounder of Blizzard Entertainment, has launched a new game company called Dreamhaven, and it has established two new game studios: Moonshot and Secret Door.
I wonder if he's making a new mmo
WoW could drop to sub-10k total players and you wouldn't notice the difference in-game. It's all just a groupfinder and fast-travel to instanced content loop.
Automatic groupfinder w/ teleport content is LFR, normal and heroic dungeons. The former is only ever relevant to dribblers and the latter is "relevant" for a short period, if at all
The stuff without that is Mythic and M+ dungeons, and every other difficulty of raid; normal, HC and Mythic. Basically everything worth doing.
>oh no entire swaths of the game population are no longer playing
wow surely is in a great place, eh moronanon?
10 months ago
Anonymous
BGs are fine. arena cucks are fricked
10 months ago
Anonymous
Aren't BGs full of bots?
10 months ago
Anonymous
no
10 months ago
Anonymous
no
>a yes, a fellow adventurer in the world of Warcraft. I wonder if he wants to exchange stories!
10 months ago
Anonymous
thats wrath classic
they just banned again like 170k accounts last week
10 months ago
Anonymous
>170k accounts
how do the remaining 10 players feel about this?
10 months ago
Anonymous
wotlk has a lot of players
10 months ago
Anonymous
I'm joking, I played wrath classic from december to march (ulduar is fricking overrated, what a drag)
in all seriousness the ironforge.pro server pops probably total up to around 170k, but I guess that's just raidlogged characters they go by. none of which would be bots I suppose.
10 months ago
Anonymous
what? ironforge.pro is shit but even it lists 400k players
10 months ago
Anonymous
ah, I'm used to looking at US only (just checked and it was literally 180k lmao)
10 months ago
Anonymous
these numbers are also without korea
10 months ago
Anonymous
NTA, I play classic. Wrath BGs are totally fricked by bots right now. If you've heard that recently, they were probably talking about Wrath, not retail.
10 months ago
Anonymous
No I'm talking about retail, BGs always had a bot problem in retail
Can't tell you, what I can tell you is that after getting shadowmourne (server first b***hes) and beating arthas in icecrown I quit shortly after.
I came back to cataclysm launch and quit in less than a month after reaching max level. Never played it again
People just got tired of it. That’s it.
The main 10 million subscribers who were there at the height of the game just got enough of it. This style of game went out of mainstream fashion. Everything has to be streamlined cookie clickers these days.
I get an email from Blizzard every month about some kind of sale/deal related to Dragonflight as well.
The first one was rather quickly after the release.
they fricking fumbled that one so bad too
prepurchase didnt get you a month/game time. literally two weeks after it launches as a massive wet fart, they start giving a month with purchase.
no retroactive, either. >oh you supported us? frick you lmao.
Homogenization of classes and the simplification of core mechanics killed the gameplay then the introduction of cross realm and lfd/lfr killed the community
Haven’t played df but we’re talking about what killed it not what it currently is. Around cataclysm or so everything was homogenized. Many buffs for example where changed to do one thing. Blessing of kings, that monk buff and mark of the wild all became the same buff for example. A lot of the unique things for classes were removed because of the “bring the player, not the class” mentality
its just impossible for any video game to maintain 12 mil players, while also asking for a sub+box price, for 20 years
the game still has millions of players, which is impressive on its own to be honest
fortnite came out what, 6-7 years ago? and people are already saying its "dead"
homosexuals in here have a very weird definition of a dead game
it seems to me a lot of personal feelings and involved and not objective data
10 months ago
Anonymous
>fortnite came out what, 6-7 years ago? and people are already saying its "dead"
Difference is Fortnite is bring in record profits every year.
WoW is not.
Difference is Fortnite still has loads of social media buzz and original content being made related to it.
WoW does not.
Difference is Fortnite at its core is still the same game that made it big to begin with.
WoW is not.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Difference is Fortnite is bring in record profits every year.
no it doesn't >Difference is Fortnite still has loads of social media buzz and original content being made related to it.
compared to 6-7 years ago? lmfao. >Difference is Fortnite at its core is still the same game that made it big to begin with.
yeah, the no build mode is totally core fortnite, alongside superheroes, superpowers, teleportation, and a myriad of other garbage
kindly have a nice day
at the end of the day, wow is the only mmo that gets any traction on sites like youtube or twitch
10 months ago
Anonymous
>no it doesn't
I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your post since you instantly outted yourself as having no idea what you're talking about, which would explain why you're trying to argue WoW isn't dead.
its just impossible for any video game to maintain 12 mil players, while also asking for a sub+box price, for 20 years
the game still has millions of players, which is impressive on its own to be honest
fortnite came out what, 6-7 years ago? and people are already saying its "dead"
homosexuals in here have a very weird definition of a dead game
it seems to me a lot of personal feelings and involved and not objective data
Oh frick I forgot a single letter in the word please, guess that invalidates my post and the fact you're desperate for people to play your dead game >nooo it has talents now!
Killing Arthas is what killed WoW. Many people that played finally got the story from WC3 somewhat closed, albeit not in the exact way everyone wanted, so they quit. Blizzard had also begun working under Activision during Wotlk and Cataclysm turned off so many people that it just never recovered. Garrosh was fun, wish he didn't have to die when Sylvanas was way worse (Garrosh didn't intend to get his mind controlled by a sha/old god, but Sylvanas was actively working for a big bad) and that c**t is still alive. Legion was fun if you can excuse the ap grind and time gating. Class fantasy stuff was kino and mage tower was the coolest shit I've ever done in WoW and I also was mythic raiding for the first time and got cutting edge for everything except argus (got too busy and had to quit midway through antorus).
Blizzard killed WoW. They fired or pissed off so many of the old staff and replaced them with diversity queens and shitty writers. It's been a long slow burn that begun with Wotlk and is still somehow not completely out.
When they started cracking down on ERPing in the deeprun tram that was when it was all over.
I'm a virgin IRL, but in wow, I had sex with so many beautiful women, I know that somewhere in the world, some cute girls have rubbed themselves raw on my command.
its kinda sad really
the people defending wow and sucking blizz wiener are the zoomies that got on years after it stopped being amazing
and so they defend their pile of shit for they never know the greatness that used to be, similar to league players really
>we brought talent trees back guys just like you wanted!!!!! >it's literally just the same abilities and passives you've had since Legion but now instead of getting them automatically when you level you have to spend a point when you level to play the exact same way you've been playing since 2016
How did they frick it up so bad
>How did they frick it up so bad
They don't actually understand anything about designing games, likely some suit saw a comment on a forum that got a lot of likes, that said something like "at least vanilla had the illusion of choice", and then they told one of the devs to put that in the game, and the dev doesn't really know what he's talking about and neither understood the original forum comment
Itself.
But for me it was the power creep. Both gameplay and lore wise.
It feels silly that a fighting a wild boar will give me trouble but then you're able to take out The Lich King within a single GCD.
Also all the player wanking with the Hall of Heroes bullshit.
I miss WoW when I was just a simple adventurer and not a demi-god where everyone wants to kiss my boots.
This was the final nail in the coffin. However, the lackluster end of WoTLK and the entirety of Cataclysm drove all the prerequisite nails in beforehand.
gee I wonder? The game practically forces you to build up your resumé to participate in any group activity. On top of that the end-game stuff is catered towards professional e-sports players who spend over $100,000 USD on items & gold every raid tier. This game is fricked up to the point of no return, I wouldn't even consider this an MMORPG.
>The game practically forces you to build up your resumé to participate in any group activity
the community does this more than the game does. not defending the shitpile that is modern wow, but even classic is riddled with this aids shit.
Isn't classic a much simpler world? Like if you see someone with high ilevel and thunderfury you insta invite them because you know they will frick shit up? (I've never played classic)
>WoW is the only current MMO with a Druid class >hate modern WoW and have no interest in classic or pservers >have to settle with playing D4 or D2 to get my Druid fix
Cataclysm when they remade the entire world and removed all the soul. They had a plan to revamp it again to represent an evolving world but gave up on it.
>retail wow >Progressively over the years players demand more convenience, more instanced gameplay, extremely hungry for boosting services leading to wow token, also hates gear grinding and feeling "behind" >blizzard implements seasons that almost completely catch up newly resubbing players, but also deletes all content before the patch, wow token implemented, game is effectively a lobby that players queue into M plus, arena, and raid with.
Classic Wow isn't better: >Supposedly built for immersion enjoyers taking it slow >Duning kruger min maxxing players speed leveling with boosting mages and dungeon spam >An even more extreme gold hunger sets in and everyone starts doing sweaty GDKP runs buying items with gold, which also generates business for gold sellers and RMT >Blizzard eventually just steps in and implements WoW token again since everyone is buying gold anyway >game converges faster into min/maxxing lobby gameplay than it ever did in the past
Its funny since the players are at the same point in classic that turned the game into modern retail. Even going down the same path of saying >Next expansions was the one Bro it was the best with hardest heroics
Blizzard probably goes to cata since they are trying to run HC classic on DF fricking client instead of just forking Era into its own thing.
i wouldn't say it killed wow, but the game was designed to be as soloable as possible which killed a lot of the feeling of camaraderie that you'd normally feel while playing an mmo.
vanilla wow was already very soloable compared to older games like eq and ffxi, but they still had some elements where parties were necessary like elite quests and dungeons. eventually wow did away with elite quests and made it so dungeons could be queued for, which leads to a feeling of loneliness since everything is queueable.
the cross-realm stuff made things worse because you didn't even have to play with people from your own realms anymore.
as much of a slog as ffxi was, it's where a lot of my fondest mmo memories come from because you *had* to make friends to do well.
if you listen to the original devs talk about making the game, they directly reference making some places in the game shitty to complete quests in so people felt compelled to try to group up
i found it interesting that they were willing to sacrifice what some people would call a smooth gameplay experience, to make people be social in an mmo
When Wrath turned it into an incredibly bland and boring experience where you snooze through every fight because they made the PC obscenely powerful to the point nothing challenges you in the slightest until raids.
The players. Nobody actually wants complicated fricking systems that nobody understands except an autistic 1% of the user base. Make systems simple and min-max complex, not the reverse.
>neuter the social (online) elements >neuter the RPG aspects >why is our massively multiplayer online rpg dying
FFXIV is just as bad about this. Both games removed the need to communicate in favor of auto-matchmaking and content so easy you might as well be playing with bots. Ironically both games also have content that is so hard (relative to its typical content) that doing it with random matchmaking is a sisyphean task.
me on the right
Thrall cheated
And Cairne died off-screen.
Well, it's not strictly speaking dead. In fact, it's one of the most popular MMOs as three separate incarnations (neo-WoW retail, Classic retail, private servers). But the primary reason for immense decline of retail, I think, is /simply that it's not very good/. Yeah, lore's gone to shit but how much did I ever really care? Not much. Yeah, content updates are few and far between, but that's not the reason I'm not playing even the expansion launch. I don't exactly think that vertical progression and endgame-focused design are the best ones out there, but I've played a game with that kind of design for 10k+ hours anyway! And so on.
The number one problem is that neo-WoW just isn't good, irrespective of any major design decisions or whatever (bad designs can hurt, but a stellar implementation of bad design might still be palatable). Even moment-to-moment gameplay isn't very fun (relative to Wrath through MoP).
>Well, it's not strictly speaking dead.
It's creatively dead.
Spiritually dead.
Morally dead.
Physically it's a shaking corpse with so many layers of clown makeup it can't get up from under the weight.
You say Neo-WoW as if Classic isn't Retail-lite trash. Even Vanilla is fricking trash because of shit like layering and cross-server and the terrible botting problem (at least private servers ban bots, but they have a whole host of other issues). And now they are appealing to stream trannies with Hardcore servers.
Fricking wow-token in classic man. It's all trash.
>Well, it's not strictly speaking dead
Mein Black person, nearly every week Blizzard is advertising something related to retail WoW; be it discount off the expansion, bonus XP & rep for a week, free week or two of game time. They are desperate for players to return. The only reason one could argue that WoW """isn't dead""" is because game time for retail applies to game time for Classic, and more people are playing classic.
>inb4 anecdotes
Doesn't count.
>was opening battlenet as I was reading this post
>this pops up
Goddammit.
>perfect return to azeroth
No thanks. I dont like reading about another troony in the game, or all the leaders being mostly women while all the men are incompentent and/or evil. Nor the boring gameplay systems and skinner box grinding.
>he doesnt want to level a drag(on) queen healbawd
lmao @ u get glam'd on cissie.
I really dont. The off-brand dragons was one of the nails in the coffin for me. Such a lazy design, even if I didnt want to play them.
>lazy
no im pretty sure they had to work real hard to get them that fricking awful. thats effort bad.
Every time I've opened battlenet I've got some fricking notification asking me to come back to dragonflight and enjoy a free 7 days or something. It's pathetic.
I love the cope of "dragonflight actually sold well!" when in reality if the numbers actually were good they would have announced them and used them as a marketing point, like they did every time before. Instead we are getting free trials and sales, which speaks volumes.
Yeah, the crazy thing is that they didn't announce initial sales figures and they said they were lower than SL. Expansions peak at launch, so DF's peak must have been less than 3.7 million, yet there are still people pulling this 5-7 million figure out of thin air.
>yet there are still people pulling this 5-7 million figure out of thin air.
nobody said that lmao
majority of people put it around 2-2.5m
you been spending time in /wowg/?
That was the only place i even heard shills talking those numbers
Doomposters were proably closer
It's not dead in the sense that someone who is dying of cancer isn't dead.
The reason it's dying is because it simply isn't a good investment of your time or money. $15 a month could be spent on many other much better entertainment packages that offer far more value per month, and the time it takes to level a new character or gear up for raids is a much larger investment than simply turning on an actually good game and having fun immediately.
And I'm someone who has played this game fairly religiously since the middle of Vanilla. I fricking bought Dragonflight. It isn't a good game. There's way better things to play right now.
>thinks grinding a profession over months+ for no real return because some poopsock glitched their shit the release week and cornered the market isnt a valid time investment
wat r u
casul?
yeah, you didn't play dragonflight
i literally did
It was the bloody pandas.
Like, why?
It really was. Beginning of the end. If only they took it a more seriously. But then again, the way they treated the art style was a sign of things to come.
>If only they took it a more seriously.
Thunder King's story was very serious, but nobody took it seriously because everybody had their minds made up already by the kung fu panda meme
Yep, WC3 was a mistake on all accounts.
que?
Mogu fluff was the best story in years... if you didn't enjoy it there is something seriously fricked up with you.
facts
the people that say MoP was the worst expansion because pandas are also probably idiots that religiously follow Rotten Tomato scores
Lei-Shen did even less wrong than Garrosh did... which was nothing wrong at all.
Except losing to the cat-men, that was pretty sad.
Mogu, Klaxxi, Sha, Garrosh, all very cool worldbuilding.
Whether you like it or not or it being good or not is irrelevant though, I love mop, but it was the first xpac where people saw the trailer and the art style and thought “okay,I’m good on this” cata is what nose dived the game in quality if we’re being genuine, though. That xpac was where the spirit of the game turn a hard turn in a different direction after WOTLK. Realistically though, the game was never gonna be the same after we killed arthas, that’s what everyone was waiting for. They were never gonna be able to course correct without him being looming in the background.
People who overfocus on pandas likely never played the xpack. By the time you're 90 you've seen more Yaungols and Mogus than Pandas, and make sure to ask again when you've cleared Throne of Thunder because you'll get the same answer.
You forget about pandas VERY quickly in MoP (especially since the race itself isn't bis for anything)
>Pandaren were introduced in WC3 AKA the best Warcraft game
>MoP was one of the best WoW expansions
If anything those based pandas tried as hard as they could to save this franchise
i dont even think about brewmaster
>Sub count plummets by the millions
>"One of the best expansions"
People praise Wrath and it was the peak sub count, it was also a garbage easy mode expansion that ripped out everything good about the first two expansions and replaced it with a lot of in game cutscenes of Arthas threatening you but not actually doing anything.
>Wrath is easier than TBC or Vanilla
You’re delusional. Ulduar Hardmodes and ICC H are more difficult than anything the previous tiers had to offer.
it was the 'gay'
when they started pandering to people with stupid crap
pandas were definitely 'gay' they could have been better but they weren't
Focus on raiding
Focus on "esports"
Streamlining everything
Internet becoming more accessible thus novelty of MMOs wearing off
MoP stopped the subscription bleed for a while
sanest poster ITT
the frick are you talking about? Pandas were the peak expansion where everyone came back
if anything, WoD prepared the burial for WoW, Legion was fricking amazing, but then they released BFA and killed WoW for good
and why wouldn't they? the entire warcraft dev team is full of new people and all old devs left, why do you think they are closing literally every plotline out there and killing all characters?
>Pandas were the peak expansion
AHAHAHA
the peak expansion where everyone came back was legion. Pandas were one of the worst expacs.
>moron revisionist
pandaria only dropped off becuase of YEAR OF SIEEEEGE
it was fine before that, except for that shit with dailygate. which didnt last long.
>it was fine before that
No, it's actually the worst content they ever put in the game, and the worst continent, until Shadowlands
>its the worst cause i say so
the 10mil players it went back above dont give a flying shit what you think. objectively it was WoWs last triumph before year of siege+WoD being shit cut it in half, and left it bleeding out. legion was only a bandaid.
>the 10mil players it went back above dont give a flying shit what you think. objectively it was WoWs last triumph
u wot m8?
>has MoP right there going 10M twice.
>U WUT
cant read your own bullshit outdated graph?
like its obvious you tried to find one that proved your point but you couldnt even do that
even your shitty
>source: trust me bro*
has it right there.
>can't read a graph
Yeah it shows right there that MoP is just part of a declining trend. There's nothing interesting in the sub count at all. The only interesting thing is how WoD went up to... the exact same 10 million you're trying to spruik MoP with.
>declining trend
>literally the only one to fricking go back up at any point untill the graphs magical jump 3mil at the end very of it, which other sources dont corroborate.
your graph literally shows what i said happened, and im still calling it garbage and wrong.
just like you.
moron.
the only one to fricking go back up at any point
The uptick from 9.1 to 10 from Q2 to Q3? THIS is what you're sucking MoP's dick for? It's a barely noticeable blip on an unending fall you fricking moron.
>9% more subs!1???? this is literally saving wow!111
>gone the next quarter
lmao
>the frick are you talking about? Pandas were the peak expansion where everyone came back
Black person that's where the concurrent players began trending down.
This is so moronic. Pandas are like number 3625 on the list of actual problems wow has.
Wrath of the Lich King had the last charismatic villain of the saga. Then it ended
LK/ Arthas wasn't charismatic, but he had presence.
DW was only seen during flashbacks, killing you while afk on a flight path, or like 1 quest where you run away from him.
Sha, fricking zandalari trolls, mantid, lolmanabomb garrosh felt disjointed and chaotic. poor story telling all and all.
All of Warlords of Draenor was just an excuse for bad fan fitction. Seriously their world's time line doesnt effect our's. You destroy the dark portal in the first 30 mins. That expansion didn't need to exist.
Legion was just WoD part 2 with better writing and world building. Granted it's pretty easy when you are scraping the nostalgia barrel for the last bit of creamy goodness. Each big bad was just a revolving door of death to reveal the bigger bad pulling the strings. No real build up. Gave Varian a heroic death to allow Anduin to grow. Vol'Jin gets shanked with a plot covered knife and sets up the dumbest story of all time. RiP Runas.
Battle for Azeroth. Christ. No real villain the whole expansion. No one likes Sylvannas or the fanficiton writer shipping her with his OC. We know it's happening the whole time, but can't do anything to stop it. Gotta pull out old gods again to distract us from bad writing.
Shadowlands was the chance to set up a proper villain from the start to the end. They dropped the ball so hard on this. First time we see him he's choke slamming Cairne from the top rope in the most poorly animated cutscene since pic rel. Through the whole expansion, Blizzard can't decide how the afterlife should fully work, so they just try and focus pandering.(There are AU draenor npcs here, which means our Guldan and AU Guldan are both here.) Uses Garrosh for the teaser. Kills him (forever) in another poorly animated cutscene. Arthas is brought back. Killed him (forever) again. Sylvannas and Tyrande, but get cured and redeemed and forgiven. "The Jailer" dies a b***h death surrounded by half conceived plots and dropped narratives. No respect.
Dragonflight has the most promise, villain wise, but the starting of it feels so fricking random.
The GRIMTOTEM (remember those guys? lol at least it's not the zandalari again) show up on the dragon island, which just revealed itself randomly after thousands of years, and broke the seal on a elemental dragon, that was far easier to break than any other elemental dragon seal. Laso there are centuars who have lived here for thousands of years, but they arent the same centaur that Princess Theradras birthed a couple hundred years ago across all of azeroth. Also they are all gay and need your help to marry eachtoher.
Anyways, Big angry dragon. Shows up during a fair amount of quests. Has presence in the world. Immediately killed, but replaced by 3 other dragons who take humanoid forms.
i cant wait to see what bigger big bad they're actually working to stop and only tell us right as they die!
Titans are the bad guys all along and Odin is disguised as this Watcher dude,
>The GRIMTOTEM (remember those guys? lol at least it's not the zandalari again)
its not the grimtotem. its a multi-race faction called "the primalists" who have some grimtotem members. we still dont exactly know who the primalists are or why they freed the elemental dragons. they apparently dont like the titans, even though they have humans and dwarves in their ranks
Phasing is antithetical to what makes a MMO fun. "content creators" play the game for money and dont know what people who just play for fun would want so their opinions are soulless and they should not be pandered too. Emphasis on hand tailored personalized story is antithetical to MMOs. Dailies are not fun, are stupid, and off putting.
You basically have a bunch of clueless boomer morons who have this "spiffy new technology" they want to handfist into their game where it doesnt fit at all(phasing). and a bunch of streamers who just want to catch the carrot at the end of the stick then show their moronic viewers how to do it to make money off of tutorial videos.
>splitting players up in different phases
>splitting players up in like 50 different zones
>splitting players up in 100+ different instanced dungeons
>almost 0 world related stuff needed for endgame characters except some stuff from like the last 5-6 zones they released. 99% of content is outdated and only serves to be a speed bunp on the way to getting into the last 6 relevant zones.
its shit as an mmo. its shit as a single player game. You pretty much only have PvP minigame enjoyers and raid loggers. Both of those things are instanced features. They dont play to the Massive Multiplayer "world" of warcraft. they should rename it "the instanced phases of warcraft".
players up in like 50 different zones
this actually helped the players
as expansions went on, there were less and less zones because devs got lazy and less talented
current expansion has 4 or 5 zones
what the literal frick are you on about? you dont understand what i posted and replied with gibberish.
compare this to vanilla wow.
lvl 15 characters can find light feathers. even 60 mages want light feathers because it is a reagent used at all levels. That means endgame characters are trading with low lvl characters. lvl 20 elemental earths have a chance to drop elemental earth which is used in endgame crafting to help with endgame raids. There is an overlapping economy that 90% of the players are involved in and all stages of the game outside of the starting zone. Now the only reason low lvls have to trade with higher lvls is if those higher lvls want to "power level" their professions so they dont need to step foot in lower level content.
>level 5 quest gives item that makes bosses miss 25% attacks
>level 18 elementals drop a 30s CC
soul
Did that shit work on bosses? Wow. You could do a lot of that sort of stuff before 1.12. Even after 1.12 you could stack some things to almost break the game. stoneskin totem was basically like wearing plate, taking off 7 damage at low lvl when mobs did 11-14 damage was huge. then warlock could put curse of weakness for another -7 damage dealt. so mobs would do like 1-4 damage per hit instead of 14-18.
the dust isn't the lvl 5 quest, the bag is and yes it works
i used this on cthun. i saved it from launch to that moment so it could be logged.
it was funny to me that i used a bag of marbles on an old god
>taking world out of wow by removing all such world elements from the game.
>later take warcraft out of wow by retconning everything that ever happened in warcraft 2 & 3
>you're left with ???
this and the fact you no longer needed to communicate to do content
I remember making friends I still know today, because they had cool enchants for free at level 40 and then ran scholomance with me all day on level 60. Then when wrath hit, you were kicked out of party for talking in /p.
True.
My first player interaction in WoW back in like 2005 was trading a bunch of light leather with a lvl 30+ guy who saw me skinning bears in Darkshore.
Before that I was just vendoring them because I didn't know about the AH.
It's like the cripplingly anti-social were heavily catered to since now outside of instances you only need one person for anything.
>the cripplingly anti-social were heavily catered to
This is what I feel happened. WoW and MMOs in general live and die by their social aspects. Present day WoW has not only culled any social aspects but only ever cares about having incentives for playing The-Current-Endgame-Stuff.
I like classic WoW a lot because leveling and running into new people is the meat of the game. If only Raids didn't need such a huge amount of people.
>Phasing is antithetical to what makes a MMO fun
Servers are worse. The issue is that phasing in WoW sucks, it's way too aggressive: more than 10 people in the same zone? Nope, time to phase everyone out!
Phasing should be a seamless experience, switching between channels should be unnoticeable by the player. But in WoW you see people appearing and disappearing on front of your eyes all the time. You see a gatherable item five meters away, you walk there... whoopsie, you were phased to another channel!
the anti social systems introduced in TBC and WoTLK, like flying mounts and dungeon finder
yeah am I crazy to think making it so you don't even have to speak to another player is whats killing MMO's ? My first MMO you had to speak and know people to even get anything done since there were a lot of other classes that played roles into you making money
You're not, it's a major reason why modern MMOs suck. You don't meet new players, you just drop in and out of games like every other genre without ever really talking to them or connecting at all. Modern MMOs are closer to Phantasy Star Online in that regard than the actual MMOs like Everquest or FFXI.
yeah you are
because nobody actually wants mandatory social systems.
what people want is to be able to jump in and out of the game, with no strings attached, and have chaotic fun with as many people possible.
People dont want to have mandatory social systems they have to interact with.
People want a shared social experience they can engage with when they want.
Its the reason something like battlebit is a top seller on steam.
Its the reason Diablo 4 was praised for their mmo-lite features
Its the reason why gatcha rpgs are so popular
It's also the reason why every yard has a trampoline and all the kids play alone and become warped fricks, whereas in the past kids gathered and played in droves and could actually form entire baseball teams. Just because people want to consume convenient drugs doesnt mean that you should give it to them.
This. Frick those dickheads who want a good solo experience in a MMO of all games. The social aspect was the main reason WoW blew up since the was alot of people time online games in a world what you needed to group up to complete task.
More than half of these bozos still playing have ADHD, depression, or some anxiety problems where they prefer skipping the social part.
WoW blew up because you could do a lot more solo and it was casual friendly.
Previous MMOs were FAR more heavy on the requirement to interact with others.
Too many people played WoW to act like the bulk of the popular came from older MMO players. WoW was most people first MMO or even online game like I said.
Only a small faction of the player base had deep enough experience with older MMOs to view them to WoW comparatively.
Wow blew up because blizzard was at the height of their popularity. They literally could do no wrong. Starcraft, Warcraft 3, Diablo 2. Every single household seemed to have at least one of these games near the PC.
Vanilla WoW was more solo-friendly than the games that came before it.
in terms of exploring the world without having to check every single shadow to make sure a rapebeast won't pop out, yeah it was more single player friendly by far. but any content higher tier than killing trash mobs for quests required some level of social effort and patience
I don't think you played EQ or FFXI. Compared to those, the social element isn't very important in WoW. WoW was successful by killing the genre's social aspect that you're praising it for.
No actually but I played UO and RO, and met people that played EQ and XI. Part of WoW's massive success was striking some level of balance between solo and group content. The importance of the social aspect also ramps up depending on how hardcore you want to be. You don't get soft locked at level 10 just because you got unlucky and picked the "wrong" class that very few people want to group with, but also with poor networking skills you are going to have unsuccessful dungeon runs, raiding, and guild cohesion regardless of any character build choices.
the true casualization of WoW and consequentially MMOs as a whole didn't come til a few years later
If you played in vanilla wow or wow classic, it’s very apparent that the game was designed for groups. You could solo a great deal but you weren’t going to have the greatest time and eventually you’re going to need to group up to get quests done. That started to die in tbc when they removed a lot of elite areas so you could do those quests solo
lack of gay bear sex
To me the line
>Without a Lich King, the scourge will grow to become an even greater threat! There must always be a Lich King!
was the turning point, where I realized there was no plan, no consistency, know vision beyond Wrath
wow killed wow
ActiBlizzard.
And Microsoft Activision Blizzard will kill it further.
how? by putting it on gamepass?
Gamepass is what everyone is waiting for. WoW for only $5 a month is too good of a deal to pass up.
And how will the game be funded if it just gets shoved onto gamepass? More expensive cash shop items, triple deluxe editions and premium currency?
thats the neat part
it wont.
It won't get onto gamepass?
Or it won't be dogpiled with crappy microtransactions?
We honestly dont know what will happen but we're all curious of what the change will be. It could get worse sure.
Blizzard has failed to consistently put out good games in recent years
While Diablo IV was received better than Overwatch 2 and WoW: Dragonflight, it's still not good enough and they have work to do to regain trust
it wont get funded, and will be put on the backburner with content drip thats just enough to keep subs going. I'd be surprised if they even give enough of a frick to make new microtransactions.
If you think MSFT gives a shit about WoW you're delusional as frick
Go read the numbers that are now public given the public trial with the MSFT aquisition
What MSFT wants is CoD and King Games which are massive.
>M$ keeps bankrolling ESO, which has a fraction of wow's playerbase
>this moronic troon thinks they don't care about the biggest MMO in the world
microsoft has infinite money
damn I thought that was an alpha pic first
Same thing that killed Blizzard: Corporate greed and trannies.
nothing
its just old
people want new stuff
the trannies they hired killed it 100%
The dudgeon finder feature/ server groups were the inflection point for me. It really hurt the community aspect of the game. All downhill from there imo. also the pandas were moronic.
When Activision bought Blizzard in 2008 and then everything went from "gameplay first" to "monetization first". That's when they started introducing all sorts of extremely casual things and they implemented the cash shop as well.
WoW was always shit and every mmo that tried to copy it is shit and killed mmos forever
Unskippable cutscenes
LFG
Automation was the downfall of MMOs as a whole. What was once a genre where you had to talk and interact with people is no more. The most you'll find is coomers.
there was bunch of coomers in everquest and in ultimate online
they were just not that popular about it
That's the problem. Is the coomers already had their circles. They never had to rely on automation. There's a reason why the people in goldshire are 40-50 year old chainsmokers. Cause they've been doing this shit since EQ.
But thanks to automation now being the norm. The genre has changed for the worse. Not enough new blood is coming in to the old MMO style because the big MMOs these days don't have communication requirements. The closest we got to returning was Classic WoW. Which Blizzard has effectively tried killing with poor decisions.
i played classic and never spoke to people lol. id spam "lf2m mages for spellcleave zf", go to the dungeon, and never say a word. i dont understand the automation boogeyman. people dont want to talk to strangers anymore, automating group finders didnt cause that
Here's how we save WoW:
Blizzard just needs to poach Yoshi-Piss
WoW has a better base to work with compared to the garbage of spaghetti that is XIV that cant even handle jumping properly.
But don't let him anywhere near the combat designers
Yoshit piss has 2 dead games on his hand
he'd fit perfectly into Blizzard then
blizzard has more than I can count
>WoW has a better base to work with compared to the garbage of spaghetti that is XIV
Have they figured out how to replace the default bag yet?
The reason WoW is dying is because it's been doing almost the exact same thing over and over again for 20 years. Naoki "play it safe and don't rock the boat" Yoshida wouldn't change that.
>The reason WoW is dying is because it's been doing almost the exact same thing over and over again for 20 years.
yet vanilla classic was the most successful wow has been in a decade. Clearly they've not been doing the same thing enough when most people would rather go back to the old version.
>The reason WoW is dying is because it's been doing almost the exact same thing over and over again
No, it's dying cause it keeps trying to be different and expanding to more and more broad audiences. All this
>over and over
shit is false. The reason no one likes it cause devs keep trying to do shit differently.
>it keeps trying to be different
pop quiz, guess what wow expansion im describing
>theres raids
>theres m+
>theres wqs
>theres arena
oops, thats the past 4 expansions. nothing in wow has changed in SEVEN YEARS. the devs arent doing anything differently
Raiding and arena.
The game should have been about world bosses, world pvp and 40v40 battleground.
God, I hate e-sports Black folk and speedrunners so much.
Arenas it is. The spirit of wow died in 2.0.
Automatch too.
Cataclysm.
>wow is dead
>still the most popular mmo
>others mmos are dead
>they're dead
just now wow has over 51k viewers on twitch
it completely shits on every other mmo
drop the cope, troons, and BOW to the KING of MMOs
>goyslop appeals to NPC:s
Color me surprised.
the king of mmos was and still is DFO
cope
DFO is not even an MMO.
>viewers on twitch
namaste
Time travel. They knew that the caverns of time was going to end up ruining the series, and they were right
Flying
WOW was not shot dead in the streets one day, it kept getting shanked over the years since vanilla until it eventually succumbed to blood loss. What killed WOW was every single update that chipped away at the world's sense of community and it's interactivity for the sake of "accessibility". Too many casual scum joined the game so it died. Anons already said it but the game got less World with each update until it became just Warcraft.
>Too many casual scum joined the game so it died.
WoW is literally the most casual MMO in existence.
When World of Warcraft stopped being about the world of Warcraft.
>come back to wow after long years
>immediately shoves you into BFA
>shits scaled for some reason but items aren't so you can't quest in old areas until you get past cap and get gear or you get mogged by level 30 basic cats in the starting area because you are wearing level 5 gear
>the entirety of chormietime and it's complete disregard for lore or cohesive story
>LITERALLY 0 CLUE ON HOW TO FOLLOW THE STORY FROM THE START, JUST GET FRICKED IF YOU WANTED TO GO THROUGH THE QUESTS
they just straight up ruined it and i have 0 clue why
even if you followed the story by methodically going through all expansions in order, it's fricked because all the closures are in raids and a bunch of important events were limited-time prepatch quests
Jailer if you only look at quest text and cutscenes
>Thanos rip-off that's apparently behind everything in a massive retcon
Jailer if you use random lore booklets that don't appear until you have no reason to visit an area again, environmental storytelling, and the cash-grab IRL books:
>a powerless man with infinite failures getting stabbed in the back for nearly all of time because he wanted to call a repairman to do some routine maintenance
scaled for some reason but items aren't so you can't quest in old areas until you get past cap and get gear or you get mogged by level 30 basic cats in the starting area because you are wearing level 5 gear
the classic zones scale from 1-30 and every zone in the game scales with chromie time
>LITERALLY 0 CLUE ON HOW TO FOLLOW THE STORY FROM THE START, JUST GET FRICKED IF YOU WANTED TO GO THROUGH THE QUESTS
It's impossible to give you clues for something that's impossible to do. Huge chunks of quests, many really important to the plot, juat plain do not exist anymore.
Shit writing
Shit endgame
Dailies
Shit aesthetics
They should have realm reborn or wow 2 instead of trying to makeover an ancient piece of dung
Incompetence and greediness.
just like wildstar the business venture did. All they gave a shit about was numbers and the blizzard teams could no longer had full creative freedom to do as they please with their product.
Final Fantasy XIV
Not because it was better.
But because WoW started copying it and focusing on characters and narrative instead of worldbuilding and exploration.
Oh, also raid autism but that one is obvious.
>But because WoW started copying it and focusing on characters and narrative
I'd argue it's the combination of that but while still keeping the actual players as some sort of non-entity that barely gets acknowledged by the characters. Like trying to force XIV's method of storytelling into a game that never readied the grounds for a story like that. Seeing characters like Sylvanas or Anduin get all emotional or moralistic always makes me cringe a little, not because the message itself might be wrong and it sure as frick is a lot of the time, frick you Sylvanas but because it feels like some character who's nowhere near the point where they can afford to say that shit and be taken seriously trying to say that shit, if that makes sense.
that one dev who has a crush on sylvanus and pushed his obvious self insert nathalos whatever-his-name-is absolutely ruined a ton of the lore due to catering to his stupid fricking cringe pathetic homosexual femdom fetish
YOU
JUST
Unironically just the passage of time. There comes a point where too much content becomes a negative thing, no one wants to grind a mount when there are 700 other mounts in the game.
Classic (vanilla) is doing well because it is simply frozen in time.
KNOW
overwatch killed wow
>make billions of dollars from wow
>dont reinvest them into wow
>spend them on making a new game
>new game sucks
>force wow devs to help fix new game
>it still sucks
>due to the lack of funds and devs, wow begins to suck too
The funny part is that overwatch continues to fail and dissapoint. A huge waste of time and money.
Time
Online games have the advantage to be filled with life, but everything that is alive will eventually die. You have to accept that WoW is not immortal.
You're talking about shit you know noting about. If it were even remotely true there would not be tens of thousands of people logging in to vanilla servers every day.
I like how homosexuals in here continue the muh dead game LARP when WoW still shits on every other MMO
Top kek
Unironically mindbroken by this game.
no other game has people still talking about it after they "quit" 15 years ago. its pretty sad
Because it was their childhood game they played as a young kid. It's pure nostalgia.
Everyone here will say no other MMO is/was as good as WoW, despite them not playing anothing other.
am i the only one who actually liked the underwater zone in cataclysm? i always went there instead of hyjal.
i liked because i was a druid
aquatic form stacked with the speed buff and went at 600% speed or so
I liked it as well, it's probably one of my favourite zones. It had a really nice and dense atmosphere.
It was always a bad game, the thing is the kids that played the game when it came out grew up and acquired taste.
Time and progress in the videogame genre.
There was not a single reason to play WoW post 2011-2012
>PvP
Got killed by MOBAs / ARTS games like league hon and dota, games actually balanced with PvP in mind.
>RPG elements
There are single player games that do it so much better its not even funny.
> "The Social Element"
Lmao. Who the frick would use subpar mediums like text only videogame chats when Social Media exists and everyone with a smartphone is on it.
Even further killed by things like Discord who is now comming for the remaining niche forums
> PVE
The Combat is completely shit. The animations are shit. The graphics are shit.
> The "Story" and the "Lore"?
Nobody cares or gives a shit about anything post WOTLK.
> Raids?
Why the frick would you play PVE raids against a badly designed npc with a bunch of morons, when you can play actually challenging games like soulslike games, where when beating it you actually feel rewarded.
i really wish there was another MMORPG I could play as passively as WoW
there really isn't. WoW is still the best mmo on the market and nothing even comes close
>0.05 blizzbucks has been deposited into your Blizzard.net account
it’s like 20 years old, that’s what killed it
@643435739
The people still playing it are the mindbroken cattle that just can't fathom their lives without the source of their addiction.
angry females
Talent and ambition drain
the moment all the white talent retired and they started hiring morons with colored hair
Bad writing.
cataclysm killed wow
>tfw no wildstar, no warhammer age of reckoning, no star wars galaxies
where did all the good MMORPGs go?
WoW killed all of them
Why?
Because they weren't good
All of those games were good. They just weren't the mega hit that WoW was and were killed off by their companies.
No they weren't otherwise they wouldn't have died
WoW really kills everything in its path because no studio wants to invest a lot of money into actually making a good MMO
dude Wildstar was awesome
>Wildstar
>good
o i am laffin m8.
filtered
It's the opposite. Wildstar was bad because it was too fricking easy. It was such a moronic idea to have blocky kid-like indicators for EVERYTHING in the game. The #1 rule for that game was literally just to move out of red indicators and then you beat everything in the game with ease.
>it was too easy
90% of people were too braindead for the dungeons, I wouldn't call that too easy.
warhammer age of reckoning has a private server
unfortunate, its dominated by a cancerous powertripping Black personhomosexual of an admin who unironically has a cult of ass-kissers on the forums
and of course he is dead set on keeping dps WP from being good. because of course he is.
Wildstar was shit, Warhammer Online had potential but EA killed it by forcing it to release early and incomplete, I heard SWG was fun but I never ended up playing it.
>but EA killed it by forcing it to release early and incomplete
Marc Jacobs was VERY likely the reason why the game was so incomplete, not EA. See how he has been running the Camelot Unchained project. 10 years in the making and the game is literally still in an insanely early alpha stage.
People forgot what Warcraft is. Blizzard forgot what Warcraft was. With WotLK the ties to the actual WORLD of WARCRAFT ended and the game became just another MMO like any other.
It was the death of the community. The final nail was phasing people into other realities. And cross server play that ruined it for me.
Killing Arthas with a group of 10 boys from my class room is one of my most treasured memories. Spending weeks trying to get the group stronger and better, and one late night we did it.
LFR and Mythic+
Looking at WoW Classic, instead of players doing mythic plus they would do GDKP raids and facilitate the RMT/token buying industry even harder.
Complaining about LFR is stupid, it's for alts needing a catch up.
after like 15 years I realized I hate mmos and poopsocking in general. I guess all I want is a crpg but with humans except npcs
shitty cartoon artstyle
Lol
That's just e-celeb gathering counters
>That's just e-ACKKK
>wow has 5x the viewership of all other mmos combined
If wow is dead then may God have mercy on the rest of the genre
>Twitch Viewers
hey zoom zooms
>how DARE you use this platform on which video game companies pay big bucks to advertise their games as a metric to gauge popularity
>you should trust my shitposts instead!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dungeon fighter online is the most popular MMO in the world right now, it has less than 100 viewers on Twitch.
Same with Roblox.
Frick off zoomer
>Dungeon fighter online
garbage only bugmen play, and they don't use twitch
>Roblox.
mostly played by 8 year olds that don't even know what twitch is
>doesn't count!
Yeah thanks for confirming that Twitch is no way an indicator at all how popular a game is.
And ironic that you mention that only 8 year old plays Roblox, when the exact same thing used to be said about WoW.
i gave you logical explanations
meanwhile, here you have
a bunch of MMOs known and played in the west, and which WoW still crushes
cope some more
Because MMO's is a shit genre to watch someone play? The only reason people watch "WoW" on Twitch is the streamer and not the game. A single streamer can play a game that nobody heard about and Twitch would say that game has 50k viewers, does that make the game a super popular game in your moronic mind?
Last replay I will make to you btw.
Technically, this means WoW has more of an entertaining aspect if it's that popular. FFXIV has "clubs" and such all the time, but what other content do they have to draw players to it? Usually none. At least with WoW, you can learn stuff from experts.
ok, so why don't the other mmos attract streamers that people want to watch?
because they're SHIT and DEAD
i accept your concession
MLBB is one of the biggest multiplayer games in the world, with over 13 million DAUs, even surpassing the League of Legends estimates of 10-11 million DAUs
It has 1.1k viewers on Twitch
Twitch viewership. as a metric, is irrelevant and only shoesize iq homosexuals use it.
>MLBB
How the frick is a game like this allowed to exist and become the #1 game in the world, when it's literally a 95% copy/paste of LoL, but with shorter matches, and for mobile?
Allowing China to get away with shit like this is so weird.
Riot sued.
Calfornian Courts dissmissed it
Then Tencent sued for violation of noncompetes in Shanghai and won, and was awarded 2.9 mil USD.
Then MLBB shit on them by not allowing teams to have LoL Wild Rift teams.
>doesn't show Black Desert which has more people watching than WoW outside of official blizzard events
LMAO
shart desert is at 18k, sister
Read the post again
do the math, moron
Read the post again
take out the official wow channel and do the math
And all the people streaming because of the event, so yeah. I was right.
you're moronic. we're done here
i'll accept your concession and move on
at least post whatever it's at currently
its dead hours in EU sis
and still trashes all the other mmos lmao
>addicts are asleep muh twitch viewers
you blizz worshippers are a moronic bunch
that anon posted the numbers at that time
stop being moronic
I've always been trying to figure it out. Who is even watching the streams? I bounced around Mythic guilds for about 5 years and maybe 1 person out of a given raid group would ever even talk about them. Who the frick are the steady 20k watching WoW?
It's not a WoW thing, it's a Twitch+Blizz thing. A lot of streamers started out on Blizzard games and it just carried on in Twitch culture. WoW's placement among top viewed games seems more appropriate on Kick, whatever boost WoW gets from the platform culture isn't really in play there.
>Kick
Kick is still small enough that categories will be carried by a single streamer. You're right about Blizzard games being really ingrained as Twitch games though, that shit goes back to justin.tv.
It goes back to xfire even
>kick
that site is dead my guy
the opinion of anyone who says "my guy" is worth about as much as the methane in my colon at any given moment.
ok, gay
>Who is even watching the streams?
Bots.
they got comfortable, started catering to the casuals, and drove off the raiders
then they were left with a bunch of squabbling babies who idle outside the ah and scam new players
NEVER CATER TO CASUALS, FORGET ABOUT THE MONEY THEY BRING, IT'S TEMPORARY AND WILL ALWAYS DOOM YOUR GAME
Draenei babes and their thick third leg.
Still love those knee knocking goat ladies.
Age
dont mind me, im having fun in turtle wow
I want to start there with a friend who never played wow, but when i played vanilla for like 3 hours it felt very tedious, is turtle like that?
Blizzard being inept one way and one reason or another.
Many franchises, or forms of media get so big that no real external force can kill it. WoW became extremely popular, and a household name in terms of video games, and like it or not, it shaped part of the industry for better or worse.
You can hear so many people talking fondly about blowing days upon days in WoW, and having a great time, and it has lasted so long that some people just grew up with it. Many people became diehard fans, and refused to quit wow. If it weren't for blizzard being incredibly fricking stupid I'm sure many of those diehard fans would still be playing. Instead blizzard mismanaged their game, player/customer relations, and everything in between. The only thing that is going to kill a media giant is itself, and you can see this in many fields. It's funny to look back and see how many games came out, and how many people hyped those games up as "The WoW killer!" only for most of them to die out in a year, or two, or be complete shit. Anytime a game is mostly hyped up, and marketed as it is going to be the killer of another titan in media you can immediately know it is going to be shit.
TL:DR
Blizzard being fricking pants on head moronic killed WoW.
i been meaning to ask, how exactly is the "roleplay" in those fricking MMOs if it happens at all?
In WoW there's official RP servers where people are EXTREMELY into it, to the point that you'll get banned if you don't roleplay properly, if you have a non-RP name, if you disrupt others, and shit like that.
Literally has servers just for RPers
WoW is kinda shit for roleplay
TESO was the best of the modern roleplaying games.
WoW was filled with super degenerate ERP.
Frick.
this is the worst kind of shit I don't tolerate at all
WoW has become so shit most RP servers are dead. Scrolls of Lore is dead. Everything is dead.
Maybe there's an RP server or two still alive in Classic where the lore hasn't been annihilated but don't get your hopes up.
it was doomed from the start. you can't tack on more gear progression after a finished base game. that's why vanilla was when the game felt the best. beyond that it just devolved into minigames gatekept behind an archaic leveling system that they put in "just because"
they also had to constantly try and reinvent the wheel to justify all their game designers, which is moronic since they nailed certain aspects of the game relatively early on, like talent trees.
they should've focused way more on just expanding the social and community aspect of the game instead of forcing new gameplay mechanics and raids into the game
Will Hardcore Classic become popular?
Yes. It has already been massively popular with just the shitty addon, that's why Blizzard stepped in and decided to make something official.
It's luster has already began to fade, they're late on the trend AND they're handling it worse than private servers are.
They needed to release SoM2 early summer and have a HC mode added onto it, that's all they had to do and they fricked it up.
No, Blizzard fricked it up hard not simply adding a HC mode into som2, making a HC only server is moronic, they literally can't do anything right, also all the rules they're tacking onto it are moronic too.
Devs stopped trying to make a living breathing world and focused on making a skinner box
if they make classic free, sure. not sure what kind of money they expect to make from all the mexicans
Bobby cutting costs while demanding CoD numbers. This becomes very clear when you read the statements made by ex devs.
Casuals did.
And the mechanism was listening to them and changing the game to cater to the literally 10 people on the WoW forums pissing and moaning about how it's unfair XYZ person has gear and they don't and how they don't have time to raid (which was always bullshit). It was a slow change over time. Imperceptible at first but at some point it went from subtle to overly noticeable. I think the real moment WoW became unsalvageable and began its descent into time-wasting meaninglessness was WoD.
Disrespect to the lore
It got steadily worse and worse each expack, finally became unforgivable with slands
I think another reason, aside from casuals, the game is shit now is the obsession with raid tiers and the obsolescence of old content.
In Classic some items from "old raids" and even from dungeons and from quests were still good and desired regardless of "current tier." That should have always been the choice. Now it's just NUMBER GO UP and every item is just some random spreadsheet thing with no feeling or perception of lore behind it, no uniqueness, items can proc epic or warforged or like leech or whatever and it's just fricking dumb, the game's literally devolved into BIG NUMBER
yeah that sounds nice and all but its fricking awful if you come back to the game later and need those old items. nobody wants to run the old raids except other people who need those specific items. the past 3 wow expansions had crap like that (legion had elisande trinket, bfa had squid boss trinket, shadowlands had rogue daggers from sylvanas) and trying to make groups for those fricking sucked
The community is unironically a big part of it
Look at the state of classic right now. GDKP min/max autism has absolutely destroyed the community and any sense of progression, and that is entirely on the playerbase
>What actually killed World of Warcraft?
The game is older than most of the zoomers on Ganker.
wow is 19 years old. you DO realize zoomers are like.. 26 now............ right?
>you DO realize zoomers are like.. 26 now............ right?
Zoomers are 12 to 22 year olds. Anyone born after 9/11.
zoomers arent born during or after 2001 dumbass. 1997 is the start
>a 26 year old is a zoomer
>a 28 year old is a zoomer
Come on now. I am aware of the technical Gen Z definition, but it doesn't make sense to call these people zoomers.
a 24 year old (me who is 25 in august) is in fact is a zoomer. too fricking bad buddy...
So if we go by textbook definitions, then boomers are from 1946-1964. That's 59-77 year olds. Don't you see how it's ridiculous to only follow textbook definitions in this case too?
you're old. you're aging. you're twice my age. cope.
I'm only 32. People have called me boomer many times though.
i turned 30 a month ago and I internally updated to think of myself as an over the hill boomer basically instantly
its over
I turned 30 today. It's fricking over bros.
wait till you get 40. It get's better, by then you stop giving a shit
I turned 33 2 weeks ago and I feel really good. I keep dabbling with asking out this 18 year old zoomer girl at my gym who won’t stop talking or staring at me, but I feel in my gut it’s not a good idea. Getting old isn’t too bad, I give way less of a shit about a lot of stuff I stressed out over in my 20s. It’s so liberating
almost as if boomer is a mindset
>That's 59-77
yes so boomers
1995 is the start
1990 is the start
>a 33 year old is a zoomer
Absolute moron, Gen Z are from 96-10, Generation A after that.
>Original devs leave over the years
>New devs look at WoW killers (just copycat versions of the game but worse) for inspiration
>WoW becomes more and more like them designwise
One of the Riot MMO devs said it pretty well, the "WoW killers" tried to be WoW instead of taking the good parts of it and doing their own thing instead.
WoD graphics/look and feel
TBC was sofking cool
Blizzard got utterly mindbroken when they lost DotA in 2009 and started chasing esports like mad. Even ended up shoving 2 failed esports into WoW while the only successful one is the one that Blizzard has no hand in.
WOTLK was the signal of it being more involved with activision
by the time it was mid expansion, they'd already farmed out the roles of GMs to call lentres
Feedback was no longer taken on board on the forums really
It's not dead. But it's not a 'fun mmo with the players fun being number one'. It's all about cash intake now and optimizing it for bot farmers
>optimizing it for bot farmers
I think they designed it for boost culture to sell tokens. Why would there be borderline unplayable M+ weeks if not to get people to buy a token for an M+ boost conveniently priced at one token?
There always have been a hilarious amount of bots too though, until SL all of Gorgrond had unplayable lag because of the bots zoning in and out of iron docks. I thought the WoW token was supposed to combat this shit.
They don't want to combat bots
bots are the lifeblood of WoW
The point of the token was to improvebotting and gold selling
Time.
More of a question of what can kill it? I know horribly addicted people who have been playing since the fricking beta (2004ish I think). They literally only have WoW in their life. Nothing but dwindling neetbux and WoW.
How do you off ramp from this game? How do you help someone?
WHAT DOES IT TAKE?
About half the lifers I knew finally left during SL.
Thats the thing, with these guys it seems there is nothing that blizzard can do to stop them playing it.
They have apparent complete acceptance of how bad it is, how bad blizzard is and the game is beyond the point. Gay dragons are moronic and the social contract is cancer, the gameplay sucks and the loops are boring etc.
And yet their life is still being dumped into it. I just can't work it out
>Gay dragons are moronic
agreed
>and the social contract is cancer,
never understood why people even cared about this. you already agreed to the tos. its the same thing
>the gameplay sucks and the loops are boring etc
the gameplay and gameplay loops are unironically better than ever before
>the gameplay and gameplay loops are unironically better than ever before
How so? My understanding is that pve is very streamlined and impersonal, on top of pvp being manipulated to hell with some kind of in group weird system
not saying you're wrong, trying to understand
nta, but with 10.1 they added a new item upgrade system with a new currency which basically drops from everything, and every piece of gear is now upgradeable
so you can do only world content stuff and still progress your character
in a limited fashion, you won't reach mythic ilevel, but still. decent enough to feel like your time wasn't wasted
So to summarise for a retad such as myself, its taken a small step towards diablo lets say? You can go and kill anything, big packs and such and you can progress solo?
Then jump into like 10 man mythic on the finder (5 man?) and continue progression kind of thing? Then heroic? Bit smoother and more approaches to reach content type of stuff?
i don't know how diablo is
but yes, you can farm and upgrade stuff just by doing quests and shit
that gets you into low keys. which then gets you into LFR. and so on
raids have 4 difficulties looking for raid (tourist mode just so casuals can see the raid), normal, heroic and mythic
dungeons have normal for leveling, heroic (you can queue and spam these, but nobody does because the rewards are crap), and mythic.
dungeons are like diablo rifts now. they scale from mythic+2 to +20. +20s are supposed to be as difficult as mythic raids, +2s are as easy as looking for raid. they give loot appropriate to their difficulty. you can upgrade gear up to a certain cap (cant upgrade something from a +2 all the way to +20, think it caps at like +10) and you get upgrade materials from running dungeons or beating raid bosses
theres no automatic group finder for raids or m+. you can unlock dungeon teleports if you beat them at +20. everything is still puggable and you are expected to know how to play your class/how to deal with dungeon mechanics beforehand so you dont need to talk. people still socialize before and after dungeons
very interesting, appreciated. Is the raid design on the up? what kind of thing is making it stand out right now if so?
Has there been times when the raiding wasn't so good at all (over the years I mean)?
this info is very helpful
the last 2 raids of the previous expansion were super hard with convoluted mechanics and everybody hated them. a bunch of people complained that addons were mandatory for a few fights and that blizz was designing fights with addons in mind. the 2 raids in this expansion have been mechanically simple and havent required any addons. the fights are still fun, they just didnt have bullshit split second organizational requirements like the previous expansion
Oh that's very interesting and is bringing some memories back of conversations a while back. I do want to ask how the economy / auction house is but you've been very obliging so I'll just say thanks.
>pve is very streamlined and impersonal
I have no idea what this even means
wows combat is better than its ever been. some people will say mop is the peak i guess. i havent seen a single person going "wow my spec sucks i wish it played the way it played back in xyz expansion". m+ and the raid are both fun. you can gear up incredibly quickly if youre good at the game. dont know what else to say really
> pvp being manipulated to hell with some kind of in group weird system
ive never cared about rated pvp but its so dead that its really easy to rig games apparently. lots of super high ranking people are getting matched with lower ranking people, or selling boosts
>pve is very streamlined and impersonal
I mean it seems like you don't really need to work with people at all. You can teleport around and just group/raid find. A different class gets op and you can just buy a level 100 and start the usual grind even. In many ways if you knew what you were doing you wouldn't have to speak to a single soul.
If that were the case (might not be) my only thought is why bother? You don't have the mmo part of mmorpg any more, so any other good RPG is instantly better.(without the subscription, respects time, without mobile game tier monetisation etc)
how good can those buttons really feel to press?
>I mean it seems like you don't really need to work with people at all. You can teleport around and just group/raid find.
As long as new mounts, pets, and achievements are added? Likely there's always going to be people playing. There are actually people whose only video game is WoW and they don't care.
man if it turns out to be about mounts and pets i'm ghosting this homie
An actual, decent MMO.
There still hasn't been a single MMO that has the responsiveness that WoW has. Every time I try a new MMO abilities feel sluggish as hell, the UI is a complicated mess, and the story is meh at best.
Even at WoW's worst times the combat is way better than any MMO to ever exist. It's honestly sad.
people say this but every time I've tried to go back to the game I get hung up on how clunky the GCD and tab target system is and how enemies feel like a chore to kill, with basically zero feedback on anything you do
that's not to say another MMO does it better (maybe GW2) but the combat and movement just aren't as special as everyone makes it out to be, frankly I've been having a lot more fun playing runescape lately and it's the slowest, jankiest mmo on the market
they're not really special, it's just the least shit one most people have ever encountered. like you said, GW2 MIGHT be better, but for some reason skill set being tied to weapon type is kinda meh.
>Uses TCP
>Still
>Responsive
Ouch man, you got the slow brain
They've been doing
>new expac every two years with 4-6 new zones
>new patch every six month consisting of a new raid and maybe a new dungeon or new zone to go with it
>outside of raiding and PVP, the content will consist of doing dailies to raise a reputation and keep up on the gear treadmill
>gradual reductions in the amount of friction (read: social interaction or class/world fantasy) required to engage with content
for almost twenty years now. The game is just a bunch of shit stacked on top of itself, there's no actual world left at all (which is why people wanted classic and why the classic playerbase didn't peak with TBC or WotLK). It's completely inscrutable to new players and has gotten old for veterans.
Long-term WoW player. For me what sold me on Warcraft was its potential. Blizzard had that disney magic, they had a wealth of different eras and stories that could be animated, pitched as a movie, or an alternative video game like Total Warhammer or Skyrim.
But instead the franchise has lost all digity, selling its integrity and confidence a dollar at a time. Its as Steve Jobs said, a company eventually turns away from the Developers and to the sales people who just spoil the vision.
(AND STEVE DAUSER'S GAY FRICKING MARVEL QUIP WRITING)
Adding to my thoughts - It was the creative element as well with plenty of Machinima that was made at the time. Illegal Danish, Arthas God is pissed off at you, and the Guild. The WoW music video pardoies and songs.
Gays and women killed it.
We might not have some work of art on our hands, but we'd at least have something enjoyable to play if a bunch of straight white men were left alone to create big sweaty men with huge shoulders and drink breast milk all day.
The minute you let in people with lots of opinions and no skills, you've killed it.
Is this from the actual game? Is there an actual bad dragon race now? jfc this is so embarrassing lol. please tell me this is fake, this picture tells you everything you need to know about blizzard now. Its full of cringey morons. I can smell the sweat off the clear framed glasses croc wearing idiot that suggested this from here.
yeah thats the new playable race/class called dracthyr. they were neltharions super soldiers that he hid away this entire time because ??? also females and males look exactly the same, no boobs or extra bulky muscles or anything
i have no idea why they didnt make drakonids playable. thats what people actually wanted
Growing up
The novelty of just going online and watching other players running around / doing stuff with them simply wore off.
>WoWs not dead its the best MMO
>all the others are dead/dying trashfires
>this is somehow a brag
All Hail King Turd of Shit Mountain
Legion, all of the systems introduced in that expansion were poison to the game and marked a very clear shift in design philosophy
>Mike Morhaime, the cofounder of Blizzard Entertainment, has launched a new game company called Dreamhaven, and it has established two new game studios: Moonshot and Secret Door.
I wonder if he's making a new mmo
You
WoW could drop to sub-10k total players and you wouldn't notice the difference in-game. It's all just a groupfinder and fast-travel to instanced content loop.
BASED moron lacking any sort of clue on the topic he's talking about
You definitely can notice a declining playerbase in WoW.
t. stayed on Alliance as a Mythic raider late into 9.0
Automatic groupfinder w/ teleport content is LFR, normal and heroic dungeons. The former is only ever relevant to dribblers and the latter is "relevant" for a short period, if at all
The stuff without that is Mythic and M+ dungeons, and every other difficulty of raid; normal, HC and Mythic. Basically everything worth doing.
you could already tell it's becoming a ghost town since they had to enable cross faction EVERYTHING. even after they did it lfg is still quite dead
>dozens of raid pugs at any given time
>hundreds of keys
Works fine on my PC
>M+ treadmill is fine
everything else is dead you oaf. try pvping sometime you fricking slimemold
>pvp
lol
did you have a stroke?
>oh no entire swaths of the game population are no longer playing
wow surely is in a great place, eh moronanon?
BGs are fine. arena cucks are fricked
Aren't BGs full of bots?
no
>a yes, a fellow adventurer in the world of Warcraft. I wonder if he wants to exchange stories!
thats wrath classic
they just banned again like 170k accounts last week
>170k accounts
how do the remaining 10 players feel about this?
wotlk has a lot of players
I'm joking, I played wrath classic from december to march (ulduar is fricking overrated, what a drag)
in all seriousness the ironforge.pro server pops probably total up to around 170k, but I guess that's just raidlogged characters they go by. none of which would be bots I suppose.
what? ironforge.pro is shit but even it lists 400k players
ah, I'm used to looking at US only (just checked and it was literally 180k lmao)
these numbers are also without korea
NTA, I play classic. Wrath BGs are totally fricked by bots right now. If you've heard that recently, they were probably talking about Wrath, not retail.
No I'm talking about retail, BGs always had a bot problem in retail
>dozens of 10-20 groups! maybe even 400!
>HUNDREDS of 5 groups! HUNDREDS OF THEM I SAY, there must be THOUSANDS of players! at least two!
Blizzard
Can't tell you, what I can tell you is that after getting shadowmourne (server first b***hes) and beating arthas in icecrown I quit shortly after.
I came back to cataclysm launch and quit in less than a month after reaching max level. Never played it again
how many times has wow died so far
you Black folk ever heard of the boy who cried wolf
unless you're an actiblizz shareholder extracting money from moronic whales then yes the game is essentially dead
so which mmo isn't dead?
do you really want to know ?
sure. out of all mmos, which one isn't dead?
if they were going to ignore the kid, why did they still send him up the hill?
It's been dying a slow death for a long while, now.
The only thing keeping it going now is inertia.
People just got tired of it. That’s it.
The main 10 million subscribers who were there at the height of the game just got enough of it. This style of game went out of mainstream fashion. Everything has to be streamlined cookie clickers these days.
>+50% XP and rep buff for a month
>eating into their own boost sales
now thats desperation
I get an email from Blizzard every month about some kind of sale/deal related to Dragonflight as well.
The first one was rather quickly after the release.
they fricking fumbled that one so bad too
prepurchase didnt get you a month/game time. literally two weeks after it launches as a massive wet fart, they start giving a month with purchase.
no retroactive, either.
>oh you supported us? frick you lmao.
Homogenization of classes and the simplification of core mechanics killed the gameplay then the introduction of cross realm and lfd/lfr killed the community
>Homogenization of classes and the simplification of core mechanics
you couldn't be more wrong lmfao
have you seen the talent trees in dragonflight?
Haven’t played df but we’re talking about what killed it not what it currently is. Around cataclysm or so everything was homogenized. Many buffs for example where changed to do one thing. Blessing of kings, that monk buff and mark of the wild all became the same buff for example. A lot of the unique things for classes were removed because of the “bring the player, not the class” mentality
>Haven’t played df
then shut the frick up lel
>what caused wow’s decline?
>duuuhh you no play current gaem?
You fit nu wow’s demographic very well
Stop replying to shills.
its just impossible for any video game to maintain 12 mil players, while also asking for a sub+box price, for 20 years
the game still has millions of players, which is impressive on its own to be honest
fortnite came out what, 6-7 years ago? and people are already saying its "dead"
homosexuals in here have a very weird definition of a dead game
it seems to me a lot of personal feelings and involved and not objective data
>fortnite came out what, 6-7 years ago? and people are already saying its "dead"
Difference is Fortnite is bring in record profits every year.
WoW is not.
Difference is Fortnite still has loads of social media buzz and original content being made related to it.
WoW does not.
Difference is Fortnite at its core is still the same game that made it big to begin with.
WoW is not.
>Difference is Fortnite is bring in record profits every year.
no it doesn't
>Difference is Fortnite still has loads of social media buzz and original content being made related to it.
compared to 6-7 years ago? lmfao.
>Difference is Fortnite at its core is still the same game that made it big to begin with.
yeah, the no build mode is totally core fortnite, alongside superheroes, superpowers, teleportation, and a myriad of other garbage
kindly have a nice day
at the end of the day, wow is the only mmo that gets any traction on sites like youtube or twitch
>no it doesn't
I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your post since you instantly outted yourself as having no idea what you're talking about, which would explain why you're trying to argue WoW isn't dead.
They killed it with MTX
>plase play the game with me
lmao
>ESL tard desperately looking for a gatch
lmao
Oh frick I forgot a single letter in the word please, guess that invalidates my post and the fact you're desperate for people to play your dead game
>nooo it has talents now!
Killing Arthas is what killed WoW. Many people that played finally got the story from WC3 somewhat closed, albeit not in the exact way everyone wanted, so they quit. Blizzard had also begun working under Activision during Wotlk and Cataclysm turned off so many people that it just never recovered. Garrosh was fun, wish he didn't have to die when Sylvanas was way worse (Garrosh didn't intend to get his mind controlled by a sha/old god, but Sylvanas was actively working for a big bad) and that c**t is still alive. Legion was fun if you can excuse the ap grind and time gating. Class fantasy stuff was kino and mage tower was the coolest shit I've ever done in WoW and I also was mythic raiding for the first time and got cutting edge for everything except argus (got too busy and had to quit midway through antorus).
Blizzard killed WoW. They fired or pissed off so many of the old staff and replaced them with diversity queens and shitty writers. It's been a long slow burn that begun with Wotlk and is still somehow not completely out.
LFR
My peenor killerd it
When they started cracking down on ERPing in the deeprun tram that was when it was all over.
I'm a virgin IRL, but in wow, I had sex with so many beautiful women, I know that somewhere in the world, some cute girls have rubbed themselves raw on my command.
go to moonguard moron
I remember logging in on the first day of Cataclysm patch and the most asked question was "Where is my talents" I think that was the beginning
women
What is that screenshot from?
its kinda sad really
the people defending wow and sucking blizz wiener are the zoomies that got on years after it stopped being amazing
and so they defend their pile of shit for they never know the greatness that used to be, similar to league players really
>the people defending wow and sucking blizz wiener are
..mentally ill.
>we brought talent trees back guys just like you wanted!!!!!
>it's literally just the same abilities and passives you've had since Legion but now instead of getting them automatically when you level you have to spend a point when you level to play the exact same way you've been playing since 2016
How did they frick it up so bad
>How did they frick it up so bad
They don't actually understand anything about designing games, likely some suit saw a comment on a forum that got a lot of likes, that said something like "at least vanilla had the illusion of choice", and then they told one of the devs to put that in the game, and the dev doesn't really know what he's talking about and neither understood the original forum comment
>exact same way you've been playing since 2016
God I wish I could go back to exactly 2017 frost mage...
>what actually killed [game that is still very much alive]?
>there are no americans in baghdad.
Itself.
But for me it was the power creep. Both gameplay and lore wise.
It feels silly that a fighting a wild boar will give me trouble but then you're able to take out The Lich King within a single GCD.
Also all the player wanking with the Hall of Heroes bullshit.
I miss WoW when I was just a simple adventurer and not a demi-god where everyone wants to kiss my boots.
This was the final nail in the coffin. However, the lackluster end of WoTLK and the entirety of Cataclysm drove all the prerequisite nails in beforehand.
Is it worth getting into if you just want to explore the world and whatnot
wow has 1 thing that no mmo dev has managed to replicate in 20 years
a huge open world that you can navigate seamlessly with 0 loading screens
flying mounts and raid only endgame
gee I wonder? The game practically forces you to build up your resumé to participate in any group activity. On top of that the end-game stuff is catered towards professional e-sports players who spend over $100,000 USD on items & gold every raid tier. This game is fricked up to the point of no return, I wouldn't even consider this an MMORPG.
>The game practically forces you to build up your resumé to participate in any group activity
the community does this more than the game does. not defending the shitpile that is modern wow, but even classic is riddled with this aids shit.
achievements and raidlogging were a mistake
Isn't classic a much simpler world? Like if you see someone with high ilevel and thunderfury you insta invite them because you know they will frick shit up? (I've never played classic)
vanilla might be, but wrath is full of retail style aids homosexualry last I played it.
did I hear something about fresh vanilla servers actually?
When most of the games profits were diverted to Bobby and his crews yearly salaries instead of being reinvested into the game.
Asmogold is the game's living support. Fricking sad for a once powerful game and franchise.
The decline started with TBC. Cataclysm was the killing blow.
blizzard
Me. I killed it. Pray I don't kill any other games you like
Can you go kill Diablo 4 while you're at it? What a waste of $70 that was for me.
I'm on it already
gearscore
thinking that players want soulless instanced content
It stopped being massively multiplayer.
>WoW is the only current MMO with a Druid class
>hate modern WoW and have no interest in classic or pservers
>have to settle with playing D4 or D2 to get my Druid fix
if they added bestiality like in baldur's gate 3 then the game would not have died
the fact that it had bland, repetitive gameplay for morons?
Cataclysm when they remade the entire world and removed all the soul. They had a plan to revamp it again to represent an evolving world but gave up on it.
>in retail, the cataclysm world has been around longer than the vanilla one
They really shouldn't have touched it.
blizzard randomly caters to the strangest people and its bizarre
trannies
Blizzard obviously
The players
>retail wow
>Progressively over the years players demand more convenience, more instanced gameplay, extremely hungry for boosting services leading to wow token, also hates gear grinding and feeling "behind"
>blizzard implements seasons that almost completely catch up newly resubbing players, but also deletes all content before the patch, wow token implemented, game is effectively a lobby that players queue into M plus, arena, and raid with.
Classic Wow isn't better:
>Supposedly built for immersion enjoyers taking it slow
>Duning kruger min maxxing players speed leveling with boosting mages and dungeon spam
>An even more extreme gold hunger sets in and everyone starts doing sweaty GDKP runs buying items with gold, which also generates business for gold sellers and RMT
>Blizzard eventually just steps in and implements WoW token again since everyone is buying gold anyway
>game converges faster into min/maxxing lobby gameplay than it ever did in the past
this
the devs that fought to keep the game soulful should have been listened to instead of them caving to the loud morons on the forums
Its funny since the players are at the same point in classic that turned the game into modern retail. Even going down the same path of saying
>Next expansions was the one Bro it was the best with hardest heroics
Blizzard probably goes to cata since they are trying to run HC classic on DF fricking client instead of just forking Era into its own thing.
people grew up
yjk
>longsmokingpipe.jpg
gay people
like (You)
i wouldn't say it killed wow, but the game was designed to be as soloable as possible which killed a lot of the feeling of camaraderie that you'd normally feel while playing an mmo.
vanilla wow was already very soloable compared to older games like eq and ffxi, but they still had some elements where parties were necessary like elite quests and dungeons. eventually wow did away with elite quests and made it so dungeons could be queued for, which leads to a feeling of loneliness since everything is queueable.
the cross-realm stuff made things worse because you didn't even have to play with people from your own realms anymore.
as much of a slog as ffxi was, it's where a lot of my fondest mmo memories come from because you *had* to make friends to do well.
if you listen to the original devs talk about making the game, they directly reference making some places in the game shitty to complete quests in so people felt compelled to try to group up
i found it interesting that they were willing to sacrifice what some people would call a smooth gameplay experience, to make people be social in an mmo
Oh, its easy one, the israelites did it.
415th post best post
Nothing. It's still the most popular MMO and the only one that gets any visibility
WoW was always bad. Fricking nerds
Kys
Game is catered to hardcore players who believe using 30 add-ons are fine.
When Wrath turned it into an incredibly bland and boring experience where you snooze through every fight because they made the PC obscenely powerful to the point nothing challenges you in the slightest until raids.
The players. Nobody actually wants complicated fricking systems that nobody understands except an autistic 1% of the user base. Make systems simple and min-max complex, not the reverse.
Being a 19 year old game
Troons, unions, and greed.
It got worse the more it became bloated and franchise-like. This is true of many things, not just video games.
No idea why I reply to threads with hundreds of replies cause no one will read it or reply to it
But for me it was cross realms back in like 2011, that shit ruined it all for me and I quit because of it
I read this
Thanks!
i read because i saw blue archive
>neuter the social (online) elements
>neuter the RPG aspects
>why is our massively multiplayer online rpg dying
FFXIV is just as bad about this. Both games removed the need to communicate in favor of auto-matchmaking and content so easy you might as well be playing with bots. Ironically both games also have content that is so hard (relative to its typical content) that doing it with random matchmaking is a sisyphean task.