I'm serious. By accident I asked this on different board and answers were more consistent than I thought they'd be. This indicated there likely is some 'canon' lore behind each of them. Dictionaries treat them as the same shit but people who are into this stuff seem to differentiate. I want to know what they base it on. Do these names/classes/jobs come from legents from different regions and thus different story on how they work? Or maybe it's coincidence that games made them different in similar way and idea was caught on by general population? Or maybe autists in tabletop community argued and established some standard after years of flipping tables?
Even on this board for example
Mage is intelligence caster.
Wizard are is intelligence caster with no sense of right or wrong.
Warlock is charisma caster with sugar daddy.
Sorcerer depends on the setting.
There's also magus, psion, and shaman but I'll let somebody else elaboarate on those.
mentions Warlock having his power due to contract/being granted his power by someone else which is consistent with the other board.
Ok i will believe this is honest.
Wizard and Mage has positive connotation. Meaning a learned man who has arcane knowledge. This is because the root for wizard is just wise man. And magi were zoroastrian priests who had good astronomy knowledge.
Sorcerer has a more mystical connotation and can be either evil or neutral. It comes from french sorcier which means oracle or diviner basically. Its english equivalent with the same connotation is Magician or Enchanter.
Witch, Warlock, Occultist, Dark Magician, etc. All have an evil connotation. It means this person gains his powers by interacting with evil forces. It comes from when christianity was taking over and priests or shamans of other religions were considered devil worshippers.
Dnd took this and made the wizard sorcerer warlock. Wizard is booksmart magic dude, sorcerer is naturally magical, and warlock fricks dark gods for magic.
It is honest and I appreciate the good will. Best detailed explaination I got is
[...]
and it all makes perfect sense and is consistent with
Depends on the arbitrary interpretation the author of a given game decide to employ. Going literally about etymology a Wizard is just a "Wise man / sage", a sorcerer is a diviner (comes from the french sortiere), a mage is persian priest and a warlock is an oath breaker cursed jinx
Eg: in d&d by early 2e and back Sorcerer was just interchangeable with Wizard and Mage referred to non-specialised wizards. In 3e Wizard and Sorcerer were separate classes and the term Mage was addressed in the FR setting manual as a catch-all term to name both wizards and sorcerers (and with a stretch bards). Leaving aside d&d , in Gurps (Magic) for example the term Wizard refers to anyone who knows how to cast spells while the term Mage refers to those talented in magic regardless if they know or don't know spells to begin with.
So far only sorcerer was left unclear. I just asked native french friend and he said that sorcerer is basically male witch in french, confirming malicious intetent origin theory. Now only mystery remaining is how it was turned into natural user instead of malicious user in D&D which seems to influence lot of people.
I'll also check dictionary to see if it translates sorcerer to both witch/male witch and diviner/oracle, because there is major difference of motive/intent between them.
To help you along the way with the oracle/witch thing, dont think of this from a modern prespective. Foretelling the future was considered witchcraft in most places, since the idea was that you asked demons to grant you special knowledge. You could avoid this by saying you received it from a holy vision or whatever, but it was hard.
Yeah, but often there are legends. For example something that ends with downfall of someone greedy who wanted to use this power for themselves. Basically your typical story with some kind of moral lesson. Witches are generally seen as malicious beings but foretelling seems like something very valuable that would be sought after and thus sorcerers themselves very valuable unless they were using it for their own, selfish personal gain. That would perfectly link divination with general malicious image of sorcerer.
Still, link between witch/diviner and D&D definition of natural ability to use magic is missing.
Cont.
I should have explained that dnd by being the most popular ttrpg has had effects on the meaning of the words. The destinction of sorcerer being naturally gifted has profilerated heavily.
Personally i used the word Mystic for my game to avoid the dnd meanings.
Also druid used to be an actual religious thing for ancient british isles religions, not a nature dude. But they are more well known now by their dnd definition.
>Do these names/classes/jobs come from legents from different regions and thus different story on how they work? Or maybe it's coincidence that games made them different in similar way and idea was caught on by general population?
It's neither you moron. That's what those terms mean in Dungeons and Dragons, and because Dungeons and Dragons is the OG TTRPG and also takes up more than 90% of tabletop market share they're the terms that everyone uses for everything, even in derivative works or knockoffs, the same way the book Necromancer invented and popularized terms like hacking, ICE, and cyberspace
D&D is the 8000 lb elephant in the room. It's usage of near-perfect synonyms to describe different things has become so prolific that people without critical thinking skils simply cite it as a canon.
Realisitcally
Wizard = Someone who is wise.
Mage = Modern shortening of Magi, meaning someone who is educated.
Sorcerer = Someone who practices sorcery.
Warlock = Someone who was baptised then broke that oath to The Lord Our God In Heaven by doing evil things that the locals think is witchcraft (another word for sorcery).
D&Dogshit
Mage = Shortened version of Magic-User, the old-school term for generalist spellcasters regardless of how you wanted to describe their power source.
Wizard = The main term used for generalist spellcasters whose power comes from education and learning.
Sorcerer = Spellcasters whose power comes a genetic component, often a highly magical monster as a great grandparent or something else dumb like that.
Warlock = Spellcasters whose power comes from a personal relationship to a magical patron that is not a god.
The Goode Professor uses wizard exactly as its real world origin, meaning Wise Man. The fact that they had magic is the most overt of the reasons why D&D used it first as a high level magic-user title and later the name of the class. However, that does not change the word meant wise man and that is how Tolkien used it.
Mage is intelligence caster.
Wizard are is intelligence caster with no sense of right or wrong.
Warlock is charisma caster with sugar daddy.
Sorcerer depends on the setting.
There's also magus, psion, and shaman but I'll let somebody else elaboarate on those.
Warlocks haven't always had patrons. Back in the best edition, they're effectively endless wellsprings of arcane energy, rather than having a sugardaddy.
It is honest and I appreciate the good will. Best detailed explaination I got is [...] and it all makes perfect sense and is consistent with [...]
So far only sorcerer was left unclear. I just asked native french friend and he said that sorcerer is basically male witch in french, confirming malicious intetent origin theory. Now only mystery remaining is how it was turned into natural user instead of malicious user in D&D which seems to influence lot of people.
I'll also check dictionary to see if it translates sorcerer to both witch/male witch and diviner/oracle, because there is major difference of motive/intent between them.
I saw your thread on /vrpg/ too
Please understand that this division of magic users into wizard/sorcerer/warlock is purely D&D terminology. A lot of other fantasy RPGs (wether in video game or tabletop form) use the same division because D&D is a cornerstone of the hobby, but others don't. There are no universal rules to fantasy and some tabletop rpgs don't even bother with classes.
The reason you got a "clear" answer on /vrpg/ and more nuanced or even non-answers here, is because they are more into vidya than tabletop and just parroted what they usualy see in vidya, which is often D&D-based or at least inspired.
To be quite honest, you seem to be more interested in the etymology of those terms, but the way your question is worded feels like you're asking about the differences in terms of class identity/gameplay, hence the "depends of the setting" answers
Mage is intelligence caster.
Wizard are is intelligence caster with no sense of right or wrong.
Warlock is charisma caster with sugar daddy.
Sorcerer depends on the setting.
There's also magus, psion, and shaman but I'll let somebody else elaboarate on those.
That's the thing, I don't believe they are the same thing. >fighter
Anyone who fights. Might as well be monk or sportsman like boxer. >warrior
Someone whose way of life is war meaning he either is mercenary, or does raids on his own/with his band, or is soldier. >soldier
Someone actually employed by structured army. >combatant
Anyone who took part in any serious/big battle in the past.
Design-wise and with regards to mechanics, it depends on the game but as a general rule: Wizard is an erudite spellcaster whose magic is based on research and deeply complex (and solvable) mystical practices, Sorcerer is a wild talent with some intrinsic magical wellspring, Warlock is almost like a spooky cleric as a spiritual power granted them their abilities.
And 'mage' doesn't have the same history and baggage within RPGs, per se. It's sometimes a sort of catch-all, and very often simply a synonym for Wizard (which aligns with mage's literal definition, though historically 'mage' often had religious connotations that would apply more to classic Cleric archetypes).
IMO what you're covering is illustrating that this whole topic comes really down to subcultural context and syntax.
Fighter (orginally Fig-hitter) >someone who punches fruit
Warrior >someone who warrys (curses & shouts) the enemy, basically a professional heckler/shit talker
Soldier >someone who sold their services
Combatant >an ant bred & trained for combat
which is just shitposting with no explaination of backstory/reasoning behind why it works that way and draw the face thread that already went 404.
Okay moron.
1. As others said, it depends on the setting.
In most games its usually a classification based on the source of magic.
Mages study to learn magic.
Sorcerers have it in their blood.
Priests ,clerics and the like get it from their deity.
Warlocks get it from a pact with demons, eldritch beings etcetera.
Now read some rulebooks or watch lore videos on YouTube.
Listen moron, you're giving the same consistent answers. If it really depended on specific games, it would be much more random because in any game people could do whatever they frick they wanted with those names. Consistency means that at some point some actual definitions popped out somewhere and got accepted by general population. Since there is still a little variety, it wasn't oficially written down, but instead just accepted as common knowledge. I want to know the source of those "definitions".
Depends on the arbitrary interpretation the author of a given game decide to employ. Going literally about etymology a Wizard is just a "Wise man / sage", a sorcerer is a diviner (comes from the french sortiere), a mage is persian priest and a warlock is an oath breaker cursed jinx
Eg: in d&d by early 2e and back Sorcerer was just interchangeable with Wizard and Mage referred to non-specialised wizards. In 3e Wizard and Sorcerer were separate classes and the term Mage was addressed in the FR setting manual as a catch-all term to name both wizards and sorcerers (and with a stretch bards). Leaving aside d&d , in Gurps (Magic) for example the term Wizard refers to anyone who knows how to cast spells while the term Mage refers to those talented in magic regardless if they know or don't know spells to begin with.
>Going literally about etymology a Wizard is just a "Wise man / sage", a sorcerer is a diviner (comes from the french sortiere), a mage is persian priest and a warlock is an oath breaker cursed jinx
Now we're getting somewhere. Since those names come from different cultures, do you know if they have the most iconic legents involving mages, wizards, sorcerers etc in which the way they get their powers differ and is consistent with what have been said in this thread, like warlock having power by contract? >d&d books
I assume these are rulebooks for the most popular tabletop game? How influence do these rulebooks have on general culture and games?
Name the game, homosexual.
Read the thread, homosexual. If answers are consistent without naming specific game then it means game is irrelevant.
Games are relevant because they actually differ them, and as it turns out, in consistent manner. Dictionaries just throw all of them in the same bag called "someone who uses magic".
Now that I think of it, consistency might also mean that it just so happens that answers came from people who know those d&d rules and all of them went by just those rules, meaning data can be biased in a way.
>do you know if they have the most iconic legents
Sorry i'm an ESL so the legends i know are related to my area and would just pile more confusion about the objective meaning (if any) about those nomenclatures, that said
>involving mages,
The three wise men: Melchior, Caspar and Bathazar. Their expertise was astronomy/astrology (so divination)
>wizards,
Merlin, spawned by an incubus and a woman, is expertise was to be shapeshifiting and prophecy
>sorcerers
I don't fricking know, maybe Circe, but that's more on the enchantress side. She's literally a quasi-minor deity with charme and shapeshifting powers. Going literally (a diviner) i thinking Cassandra would be more appropriate, in which case the expertise is spitting facts and getting killed for by supernatural means.
If you want answers relevant to real life you need to go ask /x/. /tg/ is all about games.
>I assume these are rulebooks for the most popular tabletop game?
Yes, D&D is the most popular tabletop game in English speaking countries (and a few European countries). D&D doesn't really care about word origins and just slapped the different words English has for magic user onto different sets of power sources for simplicity's sake. >How influence do these rulebooks have on general culture and games
In the wider culture at large? Almost none at all. Among people who play tabletop games? Quite a bit. The thing to keep in mind is that most people will never crack open a D&D book, they're much more likely to take influence from pop culture and sitcoms. Harry Potter casts witches as female wizards, Everquest casts mages as summoners, World of Warcraft casts mages as wizards. Bewitched set warlocks as male witches. Different versions based on different media.
Okay moron.
1. As others said, it depends on the setting.
In most games its usually a classification based on the source of magic.
Mages study to learn magic.
Sorcerers have it in their blood.
Priests ,clerics and the like get it from their deity.
Warlocks get it from a pact with demons, eldritch beings etcetera.
Now read some rulebooks or watch lore videos on YouTube.
Depends on the arbitrary interpretation the author of a given game decide to employ. Going literally about etymology a Wizard is just a "Wise man / sage", a sorcerer is a diviner (comes from the french sortiere), a mage is persian priest and a warlock is an oath breaker cursed jinx
Eg: in d&d by early 2e and back Sorcerer was just interchangeable with Wizard and Mage referred to non-specialised wizards. In 3e Wizard and Sorcerer were separate classes and the term Mage was addressed in the FR setting manual as a catch-all term to name both wizards and sorcerers (and with a stretch bards). Leaving aside d&d , in Gurps (Magic) for example the term Wizard refers to anyone who knows how to cast spells while the term Mage refers to those talented in magic regardless if they know or don't know spells to begin with.
Wizardess >a busty librarian type who gains her magic through knowledge & academics
Witch >a well endowed woman who has no formal training in magic but learned it usually through oral (tradition) dutifully serving underneath another witch
Sorceress >a big titted woman with natural gift of magic, usually through her loose ancestors
Warlock >large chested woman who gained power by servicing a powerful patron. Usually completely at the mercy of the Parton's will
This is fantastic! Each of your descriptions does a great job of highlighting the important differences between these classes. On top of that, this is more than good enough to build quick npcs with good enough backstories. I'm definitely using this next time I need to come up with a quick quest.
Seriously thank you for coming up with!
I know alot of the commonality comes from dnd. I see it in the thread. The only thing I think really differs is that warlocks are usually evil/dark magic casters. Wizards conjure the image of someone old for me.
>Mage is someone who studies magic like a professor studies science >Wizard is like a mage except more eccentric and will take some not so orthodox approaches >Sorcerer is like a mage but less studious and more open to fricking around with dark magic >Warlock is just a battle caster
In the interest of being actually helpful, I did some googling. If you really want to analyze the real-world meaning of these words then you need to look at their origin. It's also worth recognizing that these four words were not created to all exist alongside each other and there is likely going to be some overlap in definitions. Granted, in contemporary fantasy settings the differences are meaningless anyway since you can define these four as whatever you want.
Mage: From the latin Magus, going all the way back to the Old Persian Magush, which was a type of Zoroastrian priest. Typically means just "magic user", but given its initial religious context it could be given more distinct divine flavor.
Wizard: Literally "Wise" + "ard", a guy who knows a lot of things. It's worth remembering that back in the middle ages the distinction between philosophy, science, and magic was very fuzzy, and simply being learned in something was enough for some people to assume you had access to powers. If mage is religious, this one goes scholastic.
Sorcerer: Comes from the old French word "Sorcier", which comes from the Latin word "Sortarius" meaning "a teller of fortunes". Early usages of Sorcerer are therefore almost entirely oracular. A sorcerer is someone who saw the future. It only started getting confused with Wizard and overlapping after Walt Disney released Fantastia with The Sorcerer's Apprentice in it.
Warlock: From the old english "Waerloga", meaning traitor, scoundrel, or monster. All usages seem to indicate that whatever a Warlock does, they're bad news, and in league with The Devil. Warlocks make pacts with the Devil, that's it, no exceptions.
So in conclusion, if you want to be accurate to the historical origins of these words, then Mages are religious, Wizards are well-learned nerds, Sorcerers see the future, and Warlocks hang out with Da Debil.
Appreciated but while you were looking it up, most of them were cleared. Only mystery is sorcerer. While malice and divination can be half-assedly linked on assumptions and digging up any specific legend with clear moral lesson would confirm it, link between D&D rulebook's nature and original malice is still missing. I might look up some french legends later today, but I'm not sure how successful it'll be since lot of mythology is often pretty niche and thus not translated. Only most impactful stories get iconic and well known. Slavic myths and stories are barely known for example.
If you want answers relevant to real life you need to go ask /x/. /tg/ is all about games.
>I assume these are rulebooks for the most popular tabletop game?
Yes, D&D is the most popular tabletop game in English speaking countries (and a few European countries). D&D doesn't really care about word origins and just slapped the different words English has for magic user onto different sets of power sources for simplicity's sake. >How influence do these rulebooks have on general culture and games
In the wider culture at large? Almost none at all. Among people who play tabletop games? Quite a bit. The thing to keep in mind is that most people will never crack open a D&D book, they're much more likely to take influence from pop culture and sitcoms. Harry Potter casts witches as female wizards, Everquest casts mages as summoners, World of Warcraft casts mages as wizards. Bewitched set warlocks as male witches. Different versions based on different media.
>D&D doesn't really care about word origins and just slapped the different words English has for magic user onto different sets of power sources for simplicity's sake.
Considering it's actually pretty consistent with origins of the words, I hoped sorcerer would also be the case, but yeah, there is possibility they just asspulled that.
Anyway, I consider today fruitful as at least most of the meanings were clarified and make perfect sense.
>Mage
A rank attained by sorcerers who have reached a high level of skill and learning. >Wizard
Common layman slang for practitioners of sorcery. >Sorcerer
The proper term for practitioners of sorcery (typically male). >Warlock
A male witch. Witch refers to an individual, usually female, who attains supernatural power through pacts with otherworldly entities.
You started this fricking thread just the other dsy, and it pretty much just fell off the board. I was happy to answer the question extensively last time, but now you can kindly frick off.
This thread pops up every time we get an influx of new blood. /tg/ was recently metnioned on a gaming news aggreate site, so it's just how things are gonna be. We'll get a form of this every few days until the newbies acclimate.
It's literally first time I opened /tg/
Nobody believes you on that. But I do beleive you may not the same person from a few days ago.
D&D is the 8000 lb elephant in the room. It's usage of near-perfect synonyms to describe different things has become so prolific that people without critical thinking skils simply cite it as a canon.
Realisitcally
Wizard = Someone who is wise.
Mage = Modern shortening of Magi, meaning someone who is educated.
Sorcerer = Someone who practices sorcery.
Warlock = Someone who was baptised then broke that oath to The Lord Our God In Heaven by doing evil things that the locals think is witchcraft (another word for sorcery).
D&Dogshit
Mage = Shortened version of Magic-User, the old-school term for generalist spellcasters regardless of how you wanted to describe their power source.
Wizard = The main term used for generalist spellcasters whose power comes from education and learning.
Sorcerer = Spellcasters whose power comes a genetic component, often a highly magical monster as a great grandparent or something else dumb like that.
Warlock = Spellcasters whose power comes from a personal relationship to a magical patron that is not a god.
Also, my complete and perfect correct usage for the homebrew wankery I inflict on my friends:
Mage = Common slang for anyone who uses magic. Often appended with a prefix to say what kind of magic they specialize in if they have one like Death Magic or Fire Mage.
Hedge Mage = Anyone who is uses magic, but is not associated with one of the Colleges of Sorcery.
Sorcery = The application of Sacred Geometry and Infernal Algebra to beat the laws of physics into doing mostly predictable things they're not supposed to do.
Sorcerer = People who practice sorcery. Those who specialize in a field of magic are often given special titles like Necromancer, Elementalist, etc.
Warlock = Former member of the Colleges of Sorcery who were expelled for doing evil.
Witch = Practitioners of a more feelings-based form of sorcery, usually women. Instead of secret colleges that push for academic rigor, they push for a more "holistic and natural" form. Some witch covens call themselves druid circles.
Wilder = Those unfortunate bastards who developed a natural form of sorcery without training. If they don't blow up their own heads, they're usually scooped up by a Witch or Sorcerer to be apprenticed.
Any other title you can think of can find its way into this framework.
>Sorcery = The application of Sacred Geometry and Infernal Algebra to beat the laws of physics into doing mostly predictable things they're not supposed to do.
so judaism?
That sentiment might have been justified 10 years ago, nowadays /tg/ has no moral ground left to look at any other board with disdain. However bad the other place is this swamp is worse.
How much sex they have.
Wizards are virgins, mages have a fair amount, warlocks have more but only with demon mommy because monogamy powers, and sorcerers are wanton bawds.
In my setting: >mage
Single-focus magic user. Usually prefixed with their chosen magic type, like "fire mage" or "healing mage" or "horror mage". >wizard
Magic users with no magic focus whatsoever - instead, they use prestored mana or convert-from-raw-mana cantrips to fuel single-shot spells from any school. Tend to be versatile but unstable. >sorcerer
Multi-focus magic user. May be either using the magitek spellcasting emulator or, more rarely, a genetic aberration from mismatched mage families. Less versatile than a wizard, less powerful than a mage. >warlock
Summon magic specialist without a focus, instead using summons to do the casting.
>Mage
basic title denoting a "spellcaster". You would call a wizard, a sorcerer or even a warlock a mage but people usually don't denote paladins, clerics, or druids as mages because of the source of their magics- which are divine or natural in origin. This is also why "mage" isn't a class but "wizard" is. >Wizard
Intelligent weaver of the arcane arts. Specifically summons the arcane and employs it or manipulates the natural mana/aether/whatever around them to suit their needs (all of this depends on the setting or game). Magic is not inherent to them. >Sorcerer
Magical Bloodline. Your ancestry either directly gives you magic or makes you especially sensitive to it. While a wizard might imply a sense of mastery over their magic, a sorcerer doesn't necessarily imply the same connotation- the sorcerer, in fact, could be rather clumsy or even accidental in their use of magic (such as wild magic sorcerers). >Warlock
It's a toss up depending on setting whether or not this is considered arcane in nature of even divine but you get your power summoned by the whims of a more powerful entity. While it doesn't have to be, famously Warlocks are the champions of dying or obscure eldritch entities who only muster as much divinity as to employ the loyalty of a small sect of Warlocks. Although, you can also be given magic as a boon or deal with creatures such as devils, woodlands sprites, a sapient weapon or that weirdly magical mole on your grandma's ass.
>Mage
A guy that knows a lot about something. Might not even be about magic, a generic title for a guy that makes his living by knowing stuff. >Wizard
As above but specifically a guy that makes his living knowing magic stuff. >Sorcerer
A guy that makes his living DOING magic stuff. Might not actually know as much about magic compared to a wizard. The learned from practical experience kinda guy. >Warlock
The That Guy of the magic profession. An insult applied by magic guys to the other magic guys they don't like. Nobody calls themselves that.
Wizard: Wizened person. Somebody who was grown old, wise, wrinkled.
Warlock: Oath Breaker. Somebody who makes deals with the intention of breaking them,
Sorcerer: One who can cast sorceries, magic.
Mage: Winner of the 2023 Kentucky Derby.
Wizard: Shoots magic with books
Sorcerer: Shoots magic with the power of snowflake blood
Warlock: Shoots magic because he bought it from a magic dealer
>mage
From magi, a wiseman. Just means someone learned, which plenty of magic users probably are. >wizard
Wizened, wise. One who has mastered the art through diligence and study. >sorcerer
From the old sorcer, a conjurer of spirits for divination. Sometimes used in reference to evil or antagonistic (more so than usual) wizards. >warlock
Oathbreaker, traitor, deceiver. Around 1300 began to mean one in league with the Devil, breaking the oath between God and man to gain dark powers.
Mechanically either casting stat or how spells work (set list, set number per day, ect).
In fluff, in my setting:
Warlock- Sold their soul to something for magical power. This something is usually, but not always, evil.
Sorcerer- Someone with natural magical abilities. Extremely rare, with a leading theory being it is the result of deific ancestry.
Wizard- Someone who is trained in obscure, arcane, mind-bendingly complex principles of metaphysics to the point they can actually cast spells. While technically anyone can be a wizard, the intellect needed to understand this crap and time required to learn results in the stereotype being an old super genius with a beard down to his feet for a reason.
Mage- A sorcerer with the training of a wizard. Ungodly powerful, this template is the stuff of major NPCs. Of the two known Magi in my world one is effectively the avatar of a major goddess and the other is trying to ascend to godhood himself (and whatever he's doing, it might actually be working.)
Mage is a catchall term for Magic user just as Psion is the catchall term for users of Psionics due to it just being a shortened term or the esoteric practice.
Wizards are those who have spent their lives to study the arts of magic and typically have access to insanely complex and powerful spells as a result.
Sorcerers are either talented mages that have a natural gift or a sinister worker of magic depending on the use case.
Warlocks are those who have made a pact with a greater power and then broken it, as the term itself means "oathbreaker". Typically the warlock retains a small amount of their former patron's power which they can then nurture and expand upon.
Sorcerer was born lucky
Warlock has a sugar daddy
Wizard had to actually study
Mage is a loose term used to indicate a magic user. Unlike the even more generic term "spellcaster", "mage" implies a use of arcane magic by the subject, rather than the use of divine or psychic magic. Like how gay is a descriptive term for any board user.
>mage
Generic term, a practitioner of magic in any form. All following categories are mages. >wizard
A term for a male mage. Female equivalent is "witch." Similarly, any following term can be a wizard. >Sorcerer
A mage who has magical capailbilities due to their ancestry, talent, or blessing. >Warlock
A mage who is generally seen as malicious, and is usually characterized by an affiliation with a dark being who grants them boons that make up most of their power.
Open up the rulebook and read to learn more
Depends on the setting
Depends on the system. Otherwise they might as well mean the same thing, kinda like OP, moron, and shitposter all mean the same thing.
I'm serious. By accident I asked this on different board and answers were more consistent than I thought they'd be. This indicated there likely is some 'canon' lore behind each of them. Dictionaries treat them as the same shit but people who are into this stuff seem to differentiate. I want to know what they base it on. Do these names/classes/jobs come from legents from different regions and thus different story on how they work? Or maybe it's coincidence that games made them different in similar way and idea was caught on by general population? Or maybe autists in tabletop community argued and established some standard after years of flipping tables?
Even on this board for example
mentions Warlock having his power due to contract/being granted his power by someone else which is consistent with the other board.
>canon' lore
You have a learning disability
Ok i will believe this is honest.
Wizard and Mage has positive connotation. Meaning a learned man who has arcane knowledge. This is because the root for wizard is just wise man. And magi were zoroastrian priests who had good astronomy knowledge.
Sorcerer has a more mystical connotation and can be either evil or neutral. It comes from french sorcier which means oracle or diviner basically. Its english equivalent with the same connotation is Magician or Enchanter.
Witch, Warlock, Occultist, Dark Magician, etc. All have an evil connotation. It means this person gains his powers by interacting with evil forces. It comes from when christianity was taking over and priests or shamans of other religions were considered devil worshippers.
Dnd took this and made the wizard sorcerer warlock. Wizard is booksmart magic dude, sorcerer is naturally magical, and warlock fricks dark gods for magic.
However you can use any word for anything really.
It is honest and I appreciate the good will. Best detailed explaination I got is
and it all makes perfect sense and is consistent with
So far only sorcerer was left unclear. I just asked native french friend and he said that sorcerer is basically male witch in french, confirming malicious intetent origin theory. Now only mystery remaining is how it was turned into natural user instead of malicious user in D&D which seems to influence lot of people.
I'll also check dictionary to see if it translates sorcerer to both witch/male witch and diviner/oracle, because there is major difference of motive/intent between them.
To help you along the way with the oracle/witch thing, dont think of this from a modern prespective. Foretelling the future was considered witchcraft in most places, since the idea was that you asked demons to grant you special knowledge. You could avoid this by saying you received it from a holy vision or whatever, but it was hard.
Yeah, but often there are legends. For example something that ends with downfall of someone greedy who wanted to use this power for themselves. Basically your typical story with some kind of moral lesson. Witches are generally seen as malicious beings but foretelling seems like something very valuable that would be sought after and thus sorcerers themselves very valuable unless they were using it for their own, selfish personal gain. That would perfectly link divination with general malicious image of sorcerer.
Still, link between witch/diviner and D&D definition of natural ability to use magic is missing.
Cont.
I should have explained that dnd by being the most popular ttrpg has had effects on the meaning of the words. The destinction of sorcerer being naturally gifted has profilerated heavily.
Personally i used the word Mystic for my game to avoid the dnd meanings.
Also druid used to be an actual religious thing for ancient british isles religions, not a nature dude. But they are more well known now by their dnd definition.
>Do these names/classes/jobs come from legents from different regions and thus different story on how they work? Or maybe it's coincidence that games made them different in similar way and idea was caught on by general population?
It's neither you moron. That's what those terms mean in Dungeons and Dragons, and because Dungeons and Dragons is the OG TTRPG and also takes up more than 90% of tabletop market share they're the terms that everyone uses for everything, even in derivative works or knockoffs, the same way the book Necromancer invented and popularized terms like hacking, ICE, and cyberspace
D&D is the 8000 lb elephant in the room. It's usage of near-perfect synonyms to describe different things has become so prolific that people without critical thinking skils simply cite it as a canon.
Realisitcally
Wizard = Someone who is wise.
Mage = Modern shortening of Magi, meaning someone who is educated.
Sorcerer = Someone who practices sorcery.
Warlock = Someone who was baptised then broke that oath to The Lord Our God In Heaven by doing evil things that the locals think is witchcraft (another word for sorcery).
D&Dogshit
Mage = Shortened version of Magic-User, the old-school term for generalist spellcasters regardless of how you wanted to describe their power source.
Wizard = The main term used for generalist spellcasters whose power comes from education and learning.
Sorcerer = Spellcasters whose power comes a genetic component, often a highly magical monster as a great grandparent or something else dumb like that.
Warlock = Spellcasters whose power comes from a personal relationship to a magical patron that is not a god.
Well the 'Wizards are magical men!' thing came from Tolkein long before 3e D&D started using the term.
The Goode Professor uses wizard exactly as its real world origin, meaning Wise Man. The fact that they had magic is the most overt of the reasons why D&D used it first as a high level magic-user title and later the name of the class. However, that does not change the word meant wise man and that is how Tolkien used it.
Warlocks haven't always had patrons. Back in the best edition, they're effectively endless wellsprings of arcane energy, rather than having a sugardaddy.
I saw your thread on /vrpg/ too
Please understand that this division of magic users into wizard/sorcerer/warlock is purely D&D terminology. A lot of other fantasy RPGs (wether in video game or tabletop form) use the same division because D&D is a cornerstone of the hobby, but others don't. There are no universal rules to fantasy and some tabletop rpgs don't even bother with classes.
The reason you got a "clear" answer on /vrpg/ and more nuanced or even non-answers here, is because they are more into vidya than tabletop and just parroted what they usualy see in vidya, which is often D&D-based or at least inspired.
To be quite honest, you seem to be more interested in the etymology of those terms, but the way your question is worded feels like you're asking about the differences in terms of class identity/gameplay, hence the "depends of the setting" answers
Mage is intelligence caster.
Wizard are is intelligence caster with no sense of right or wrong.
Warlock is charisma caster with sugar daddy.
Sorcerer depends on the setting.
There's also magus, psion, and shaman but I'll let somebody else elaboarate on those.
etymology
The same as the difference between fighter, warrior, soldier, and combatant
That's the thing, I don't believe they are the same thing.
>fighter
Anyone who fights. Might as well be monk or sportsman like boxer.
>warrior
Someone whose way of life is war meaning he either is mercenary, or does raids on his own/with his band, or is soldier.
>soldier
Someone actually employed by structured army.
>combatant
Anyone who took part in any serious/big battle in the past.
Narratively those are often totally synonymous.
Design-wise and with regards to mechanics, it depends on the game but as a general rule: Wizard is an erudite spellcaster whose magic is based on research and deeply complex (and solvable) mystical practices, Sorcerer is a wild talent with some intrinsic magical wellspring, Warlock is almost like a spooky cleric as a spiritual power granted them their abilities.
And 'mage' doesn't have the same history and baggage within RPGs, per se. It's sometimes a sort of catch-all, and very often simply a synonym for Wizard (which aligns with mage's literal definition, though historically 'mage' often had religious connotations that would apply more to classic Cleric archetypes).
IMO what you're covering is illustrating that this whole topic comes really down to subcultural context and syntax.
Fighter (orginally Fig-hitter)
>someone who punches fruit
Warrior
>someone who warrys (curses & shouts) the enemy, basically a professional heckler/shit talker
Soldier
>someone who sold their services
Combatant
>an ant bred & trained for combat
We just had this thread
Only mages related threads I saw was
which is just shitposting with no explaination of backstory/reasoning behind why it works that way and draw the face thread that already went 404.
Listen moron, you're giving the same consistent answers. If it really depended on specific games, it would be much more random because in any game people could do whatever they frick they wanted with those names. Consistency means that at some point some actual definitions popped out somewhere and got accepted by general population. Since there is still a little variety, it wasn't oficially written down, but instead just accepted as common knowledge. I want to know the source of those "definitions".
>Going literally about etymology a Wizard is just a "Wise man / sage", a sorcerer is a diviner (comes from the french sortiere), a mage is persian priest and a warlock is an oath breaker cursed jinx
Now we're getting somewhere. Since those names come from different cultures, do you know if they have the most iconic legents involving mages, wizards, sorcerers etc in which the way they get their powers differ and is consistent with what have been said in this thread, like warlock having power by contract?
>d&d books
I assume these are rulebooks for the most popular tabletop game? How influence do these rulebooks have on general culture and games?
Read the thread, homosexual. If answers are consistent without naming specific game then it means game is irrelevant.
If you aren't talking about games, get the frick out.
Games are relevant because they actually differ them, and as it turns out, in consistent manner. Dictionaries just throw all of them in the same bag called "someone who uses magic".
Now that I think of it, consistency might also mean that it just so happens that answers came from people who know those d&d rules and all of them went by just those rules, meaning data can be biased in a way.
>do you know if they have the most iconic legents
Sorry i'm an ESL so the legends i know are related to my area and would just pile more confusion about the objective meaning (if any) about those nomenclatures, that said
>involving mages,
The three wise men: Melchior, Caspar and Bathazar. Their expertise was astronomy/astrology (so divination)
>wizards,
Merlin, spawned by an incubus and a woman, is expertise was to be shapeshifiting and prophecy
>sorcerers
I don't fricking know, maybe Circe, but that's more on the enchantress side. She's literally a quasi-minor deity with charme and shapeshifting powers. Going literally (a diviner) i thinking Cassandra would be more appropriate, in which case the expertise is spitting facts and getting killed for by supernatural means.
If you want answers relevant to real life you need to go ask /x/. /tg/ is all about games.
>I assume these are rulebooks for the most popular tabletop game?
Yes, D&D is the most popular tabletop game in English speaking countries (and a few European countries). D&D doesn't really care about word origins and just slapped the different words English has for magic user onto different sets of power sources for simplicity's sake.
>How influence do these rulebooks have on general culture and games
In the wider culture at large? Almost none at all. Among people who play tabletop games? Quite a bit. The thing to keep in mind is that most people will never crack open a D&D book, they're much more likely to take influence from pop culture and sitcoms. Harry Potter casts witches as female wizards, Everquest casts mages as summoners, World of Warcraft casts mages as wizards. Bewitched set warlocks as male witches. Different versions based on different media.
Aye, we've had one, but what about second thread?
Okay moron.
1. As others said, it depends on the setting.
In most games its usually a classification based on the source of magic.
Mages study to learn magic.
Sorcerers have it in their blood.
Priests ,clerics and the like get it from their deity.
Warlocks get it from a pact with demons, eldritch beings etcetera.
Now read some rulebooks or watch lore videos on YouTube.
Depends on the arbitrary interpretation the author of a given game decide to employ. Going literally about etymology a Wizard is just a "Wise man / sage", a sorcerer is a diviner (comes from the french sortiere), a mage is persian priest and a warlock is an oath breaker cursed jinx
Eg: in d&d by early 2e and back Sorcerer was just interchangeable with Wizard and Mage referred to non-specialised wizards. In 3e Wizard and Sorcerer were separate classes and the term Mage was addressed in the FR setting manual as a catch-all term to name both wizards and sorcerers (and with a stretch bards). Leaving aside d&d , in Gurps (Magic) for example the term Wizard refers to anyone who knows how to cast spells while the term Mage refers to those talented in magic regardless if they know or don't know spells to begin with.
Name the game, homosexual.
Wizardess
>a busty librarian type who gains her magic through knowledge & academics
Witch
>a well endowed woman who has no formal training in magic but learned it usually through oral (tradition) dutifully serving underneath another witch
Sorceress
>a big titted woman with natural gift of magic, usually through her loose ancestors
Warlock
>large chested woman who gained power by servicing a powerful patron. Usually completely at the mercy of the Parton's will
The necromancer must get hers' stapled on, then. They were natural for their previous owner.
This is fantastic! Each of your descriptions does a great job of highlighting the important differences between these classes. On top of that, this is more than good enough to build quick npcs with good enough backstories. I'm definitely using this next time I need to come up with a quick quest.
Seriously thank you for coming up with!
I know alot of the commonality comes from dnd. I see it in the thread. The only thing I think really differs is that warlocks are usually evil/dark magic casters. Wizards conjure the image of someone old for me.
>Mage is someone who studies magic like a professor studies science
>Wizard is like a mage except more eccentric and will take some not so orthodox approaches
>Sorcerer is like a mage but less studious and more open to fricking around with dark magic
>Warlock is just a battle caster
In the interest of being actually helpful, I did some googling. If you really want to analyze the real-world meaning of these words then you need to look at their origin. It's also worth recognizing that these four words were not created to all exist alongside each other and there is likely going to be some overlap in definitions. Granted, in contemporary fantasy settings the differences are meaningless anyway since you can define these four as whatever you want.
Mage: From the latin Magus, going all the way back to the Old Persian Magush, which was a type of Zoroastrian priest. Typically means just "magic user", but given its initial religious context it could be given more distinct divine flavor.
Wizard: Literally "Wise" + "ard", a guy who knows a lot of things. It's worth remembering that back in the middle ages the distinction between philosophy, science, and magic was very fuzzy, and simply being learned in something was enough for some people to assume you had access to powers. If mage is religious, this one goes scholastic.
Sorcerer: Comes from the old French word "Sorcier", which comes from the Latin word "Sortarius" meaning "a teller of fortunes". Early usages of Sorcerer are therefore almost entirely oracular. A sorcerer is someone who saw the future. It only started getting confused with Wizard and overlapping after Walt Disney released Fantastia with The Sorcerer's Apprentice in it.
Warlock: From the old english "Waerloga", meaning traitor, scoundrel, or monster. All usages seem to indicate that whatever a Warlock does, they're bad news, and in league with The Devil. Warlocks make pacts with the Devil, that's it, no exceptions.
So in conclusion, if you want to be accurate to the historical origins of these words, then Mages are religious, Wizards are well-learned nerds, Sorcerers see the future, and Warlocks hang out with Da Debil.
Appreciated but while you were looking it up, most of them were cleared. Only mystery is sorcerer. While malice and divination can be half-assedly linked on assumptions and digging up any specific legend with clear moral lesson would confirm it, link between D&D rulebook's nature and original malice is still missing. I might look up some french legends later today, but I'm not sure how successful it'll be since lot of mythology is often pretty niche and thus not translated. Only most impactful stories get iconic and well known. Slavic myths and stories are barely known for example.
>D&D doesn't really care about word origins and just slapped the different words English has for magic user onto different sets of power sources for simplicity's sake.
Considering it's actually pretty consistent with origins of the words, I hoped sorcerer would also be the case, but yeah, there is possibility they just asspulled that.
Anyway, I consider today fruitful as at least most of the meanings were clarified and make perfect sense.
>Mage
A rank attained by sorcerers who have reached a high level of skill and learning.
>Wizard
Common layman slang for practitioners of sorcery.
>Sorcerer
The proper term for practitioners of sorcery (typically male).
>Warlock
A male witch. Witch refers to an individual, usually female, who attains supernatural power through pacts with otherworldly entities.
You started this fricking thread just the other dsy, and it pretty much just fell off the board. I was happy to answer the question extensively last time, but now you can kindly frick off.
It's literally first time I opened /tg/
This thread pops up every time we get an influx of new blood. /tg/ was recently metnioned on a gaming news aggreate site, so it's just how things are gonna be. We'll get a form of this every few days until the newbies acclimate.
Nobody believes you on that. But I do beleive you may not the same person from a few days ago.
Also, my complete and perfect correct usage for the homebrew wankery I inflict on my friends:
Mage = Common slang for anyone who uses magic. Often appended with a prefix to say what kind of magic they specialize in if they have one like Death Magic or Fire Mage.
Hedge Mage = Anyone who is uses magic, but is not associated with one of the Colleges of Sorcery.
Sorcery = The application of Sacred Geometry and Infernal Algebra to beat the laws of physics into doing mostly predictable things they're not supposed to do.
Sorcerer = People who practice sorcery. Those who specialize in a field of magic are often given special titles like Necromancer, Elementalist, etc.
Warlock = Former member of the Colleges of Sorcery who were expelled for doing evil.
Witch = Practitioners of a more feelings-based form of sorcery, usually women. Instead of secret colleges that push for academic rigor, they push for a more "holistic and natural" form. Some witch covens call themselves druid circles.
Wilder = Those unfortunate bastards who developed a natural form of sorcery without training. If they don't blow up their own heads, they're usually scooped up by a Witch or Sorcerer to be apprenticed.
Any other title you can think of can find its way into this framework.
>Sorcery = The application of Sacred Geometry and Infernal Algebra to beat the laws of physics into doing mostly predictable things they're not supposed to do.
so judaism?
Wouldn't know. Abrahamic wienerroaches are beneath me.
>Nobody believes you on that.
I do believe him on that. Apparently OP Gankerermin and first tried this at
(it's earlier than this thread) and they sent him here.
>willingly going to anything realted to Ganker
have a nice day. Your parents will be less disapponted in you.
That sentiment might have been justified 10 years ago, nowadays /tg/ has no moral ground left to look at any other board with disdain. However bad the other place is this swamp is worse.
Stop being a homosexual.
HYTNPDND?
Depends on the setting. For DnD, it's where the magic comes from.
>Sorcerers
Inherited through blood
>Wizard
Study
>Warlock
Pacts with powerful entities to borrow power
How much sex they have.
Wizards are virgins, mages have a fair amount, warlocks have more but only with demon mommy because monogamy powers, and sorcerers are wanton bawds.
In my setting:
>mage
Single-focus magic user. Usually prefixed with their chosen magic type, like "fire mage" or "healing mage" or "horror mage".
>wizard
Magic users with no magic focus whatsoever - instead, they use prestored mana or convert-from-raw-mana cantrips to fuel single-shot spells from any school. Tend to be versatile but unstable.
>sorcerer
Multi-focus magic user. May be either using the magitek spellcasting emulator or, more rarely, a genetic aberration from mismatched mage families. Less versatile than a wizard, less powerful than a mage.
>warlock
Summon magic specialist without a focus, instead using summons to do the casting.
Spelling.
zozzle
>Mage
basic title denoting a "spellcaster". You would call a wizard, a sorcerer or even a warlock a mage but people usually don't denote paladins, clerics, or druids as mages because of the source of their magics- which are divine or natural in origin. This is also why "mage" isn't a class but "wizard" is.
>Wizard
Intelligent weaver of the arcane arts. Specifically summons the arcane and employs it or manipulates the natural mana/aether/whatever around them to suit their needs (all of this depends on the setting or game). Magic is not inherent to them.
>Sorcerer
Magical Bloodline. Your ancestry either directly gives you magic or makes you especially sensitive to it. While a wizard might imply a sense of mastery over their magic, a sorcerer doesn't necessarily imply the same connotation- the sorcerer, in fact, could be rather clumsy or even accidental in their use of magic (such as wild magic sorcerers).
>Warlock
It's a toss up depending on setting whether or not this is considered arcane in nature of even divine but you get your power summoned by the whims of a more powerful entity. While it doesn't have to be, famously Warlocks are the champions of dying or obscure eldritch entities who only muster as much divinity as to employ the loyalty of a small sect of Warlocks. Although, you can also be given magic as a boon or deal with creatures such as devils, woodlands sprites, a sapient weapon or that weirdly magical mole on your grandma's ass.
>Mage
A guy that knows a lot about something. Might not even be about magic, a generic title for a guy that makes his living by knowing stuff.
>Wizard
As above but specifically a guy that makes his living knowing magic stuff.
>Sorcerer
A guy that makes his living DOING magic stuff. Might not actually know as much about magic compared to a wizard. The learned from practical experience kinda guy.
>Warlock
The That Guy of the magic profession. An insult applied by magic guys to the other magic guys they don't like. Nobody calls themselves that.
Favorite sexual position. Not much else, really.
Wizard are old men
So basically, there are 3 ways to become a mage:
- learning
- have magic in your blood innately
- borrow magic from someone else( gods, demons, etc)
It’s kinda like some people are born great, some become great through efforts, and some got greatness thrust upon them am I right?
Wizard: Wizened person. Somebody who was grown old, wise, wrinkled.
Warlock: Oath Breaker. Somebody who makes deals with the intention of breaking them,
Sorcerer: One who can cast sorceries, magic.
Mage: Winner of the 2023 Kentucky Derby.
Wizard: Shoots magic with books
Sorcerer: Shoots magic with the power of snowflake blood
Warlock: Shoots magic because he bought it from a magic dealer
Wiz - dead without book
Sorcerer - Fricked if they don't get a good rest
Mage - gay frick off
Warlock - Cleric but your GM has more fun
Mages are globalists
Wizards are homosexuals
Sorcerers are morons
And warlocks are trannies
Which would a summoner fall under, or is a summoner its own thing?
Oh look, we didn't have this thread for whole two weeks
>tq
Ask your mother
None, they're all just Magic-Users.
>mage
From magi, a wiseman. Just means someone learned, which plenty of magic users probably are.
>wizard
Wizened, wise. One who has mastered the art through diligence and study.
>sorcerer
From the old sorcer, a conjurer of spirits for divination. Sometimes used in reference to evil or antagonistic (more so than usual) wizards.
>warlock
Oathbreaker, traitor, deceiver. Around 1300 began to mean one in league with the Devil, breaking the oath between God and man to gain dark powers.
Mechanically either casting stat or how spells work (set list, set number per day, ect).
In fluff, in my setting:
Warlock- Sold their soul to something for magical power. This something is usually, but not always, evil.
Sorcerer- Someone with natural magical abilities. Extremely rare, with a leading theory being it is the result of deific ancestry.
Wizard- Someone who is trained in obscure, arcane, mind-bendingly complex principles of metaphysics to the point they can actually cast spells. While technically anyone can be a wizard, the intellect needed to understand this crap and time required to learn results in the stereotype being an old super genius with a beard down to his feet for a reason.
Mage- A sorcerer with the training of a wizard. Ungodly powerful, this template is the stuff of major NPCs. Of the two known Magi in my world one is effectively the avatar of a major goddess and the other is trying to ascend to godhood himself (and whatever he's doing, it might actually be working.)
Mage is a catchall term for Magic user just as Psion is the catchall term for users of Psionics due to it just being a shortened term or the esoteric practice.
Wizards are those who have spent their lives to study the arts of magic and typically have access to insanely complex and powerful spells as a result.
Sorcerers are either talented mages that have a natural gift or a sinister worker of magic depending on the use case.
Warlocks are those who have made a pact with a greater power and then broken it, as the term itself means "oathbreaker". Typically the warlock retains a small amount of their former patron's power which they can then nurture and expand upon.
Sorcerer was born lucky
Warlock has a sugar daddy
Wizard had to actually study
Mage is a loose term used to indicate a magic user. Unlike the even more generic term "spellcaster", "mage" implies a use of arcane magic by the subject, rather than the use of divine or psychic magic. Like how gay is a descriptive term for any board user.
>mage
Generic term, a practitioner of magic in any form. All following categories are mages.
>wizard
A term for a male mage. Female equivalent is "witch." Similarly, any following term can be a wizard.
>Sorcerer
A mage who has magical capailbilities due to their ancestry, talent, or blessing.
>Warlock
A mage who is generally seen as malicious, and is usually characterized by an affiliation with a dark being who grants them boons that make up most of their power.
Wizards are sexier, but only ponder the orb. Sorcerers wear metal caps and keep their facial hair short. Warlocks think of themselves as badasses.
No such thing as a mage, that's made up.