What do you believe to be the single biggest case of "historical revisionism" within the retro gaming community? Bonus points if you can actually PROVE the revisionism instead of just saying that it happened.
What do you believe to be the single biggest case of "historical revisionism" within the retro gaming community?
Saturn is good
It was good
Unfortunately the N64 and ps1 were better
>the N64 was better
this is the historical revisionism OP is asking for
the biggest historical revisionism in retro games comes from amerisharts thinking their video game climate represented the whole world when they were actually outliers in many respects
thinking the n64 was good is one such amerishart revisionism that persists to this day
It outsold Saturn in your third world shithole too
saturn outsold the N64 in its home country of japan
muttmerica ALONE accounts for 70% of the n64's total global sales
absolutely absurd stats showing how skewed the average amerishart's perception is
N64 outsold Shiturn 5x in Europe
What is this moronation? Usa population is bigger then many countries combined. Just because the N64 didn't sell well in some random east European nation doesn't discount from the total number of people alive who owned the 64.
>What is this moronation?
A low quality thread
The N64 WAS better. And American business climate was the only business climate that mattered, unironically. The only joke here is that Eurozone countries continually insist that they matter when the objective fact is that they don't.
If Europe doesn't matter, then why Larry Bundy Jr has hundreds of thousands of subscribers?
He's a tumor on the internet who has metastasized to every single tangentially related video and community on the internet. I would literally bet money that the man himself has posted in this very thread.
You will never be Japanese
Bongland here. I had one (1) friend with an N64 and all the rest and myself had PSX. The n64 was absolutely dogshit. The games were all kiddy crap (Mario, Donkey Kong, HomoZelda) and the controller was an uncomfortable trident monstrosity.
The graphics were worse, the games were more expensive and since no one else had an n64 we couldn't even swap games to soften the rough edges.
It astounds me that there's even a flame war about which was the better console. A few hours of Goldeneye multiplayer has rose-tinted a whole subset of the population.
That thread is only about games, while this one can be about games, consoles, developers, etc.
Not really revisionism, that's just public opinion. The Beatles was seen as rebellious, younger generations see plain dad pop. Rock, Metal, etc.
>actually X is a bad game and you were tricked
>actually Y is a good game and you were filtered
People think that Onimusha has always been a niche franchise but in reality it sold a frickton back in the day and everyone knew of it. Now it's mostly forgotten though. Not the biggest case, just an example. I don't know what the biggest case is, maybe Zelda 2 being considered a bad game
Both of these. I remember in grade 10 (2000-2001) a kid brought in his PS2 to school for some overnight thing we were doing adn kids were playing Onimusha for hours
also i rented Zelda 2 nonstop in the early 90's and it was one of the first games i emulated once I learned how when i was around 9 or 10 years old
>I don't know what the biggest case is, maybe Zelda 2 being considered a bad game
It is a bad game tho. Legitimately the worst piece of garbage I've ever played in any significant capacity.
It did elegantly. There were so many others who tried and failed with clunky tank controls.
>It is a bad game tho. Legitimately the worst piece of garbage I've ever played in any significant capacity.
I genuinely don't understand how someone could think this. It is THE most polished and generally accomplished NES game, bar none. It was way ahead of its time.
>Legitimately the worst piece of garbage I've ever played
Have you played like 2 games or what?
There was a brief moment of time during the early YT era where it became trendy to point out that SMB2 was really Doki Doki Panic in order to put the game down and claim it "wasn't the real SMB2."
Then people learned that the "real" SMB2 was a shitty rehash and that Japan had already had Doki Doki Panic rereleased back to them as "Super Mario USA" making it and its enemies canon (despite being a dream somehow).
We got lost levels on SNES, though. Everyone who wasn't a fricking moron knew that was the JP Mario 2.
Who even started that trend on Youtube?
Me.
Well then frick you
I think like most early YT content it was inspired by James Rolfe and AVGN. People wanted to be angry about old games, so acting like you got lied to and cheated out of SMB2 by bring given a reskinned Japanese game was one of the easier things to come up with.
Irate Gamer
yeah, that makes sense
that is pretty stupid too because there are plenty of actual examples of games getting completely butchered from the japanese to the American version. FFIV and Castlevania III are the two biggest examples I can think of, FFIV is much more highly regarded in Japan because the American version dumbed down the game, made it way easier and removed tons of abilities that they thought would confuse westerners. Meanwhile Castlevania III on NES has much worse music and a scaling difficulty that makes the game way easier in the beginning and way harder in the end compared to the Famicom version.
It was Irate Gamer but specifically this video blew up and ended up on the front page of YouTube (back when everyone's front page was the same) and led to him becoming one of the first YouTube partners (which was basically the first time anyone could monetize their videos.) None of which had happened to AVGN (who Irate Gamer was a very, very, very obvious rip-off of - duh) which pissed a lot of people off.
I actually watched Irate Gamer first when I was a dumb kid and thought he was hilarious (I know, the shame) and it's all because of that video ending up on the front page
Hes a pathetic avgn ripoff like 50 others, its so sad.
If zoomers had more cultural historical knowledge, they would use this to prove that their generation isn't any more moronic than the one before. Which is true. As crushingly depressing as it is to acknowledge, human generations have little or no significant change in average intelligence from their predecessors.
This boomer zoomer shit is cringe as frick and reeks of manufactured divide and conquer nonsense.
It is, I'm with you completely on that. I made that post in the hopes that "zoomers" will pick it up and throw it back when people spam anti-zoomer garbage all over this site. I'll take a smart person of literally any generation over one of the dumbasses from my own, any day, every day.
People always used to call each other homosexuals on this site, but without checking archives, I'm fairly confident that more and more this place is being overrun by posts that are nothing but name-calling and related activities. It derails a lot of threads that were otherwise worthwhile, and bumps the least valuable. It's part of why I like boards like /vr/, where that's less common. I think it's due to a broader cultural shift, but one that's a side effect of the way modern social media / socialization is structured, rather than anything generational.
>As crushingly depressing as it is to acknowledge, human generations have little or no significant change in average intelligence from their predecessors.
Exactly. I've been on the Internet for decades now, and have always seen the mainstream pandering for shit. If you could, somehow, implement the Internet to centuries ago, it would probably be as depressing.
>DAEEE only one person can make videos ranting about videogames angrily
You guys are sad. Irate gamer was funny, his Aladdin and Super Mario 2 video were Kino, AND his ROB video. All AVGN does is say shitload of frick diarrhea dogshit. Irate gamer made actual jokes.
DONKEY DONKEY PICNIC
IS THIS ANGEL ISLAND OR MONKEY ISLAND?
I agree that the trend was annoying, but SMB2 USA is not the true SMB2. And the Lost Levels version of the original SMB2 is sub-par in comparison.
>SMB2 USA is not the true SMB2
Agreed. The true SMB2 is a romhack I'm creating. Just wait for it.
Quality does not determine what the true game is. The original is always the true game. Just because a trend on YouTube was annoying doesn't mean you need to be extra contrarian in the other direction to be correct.
Then, the original will always be Super Mario USA to me, because that's what was released first here and what I (and many others) played. If you disagree, then just wait for my hack to set things straight.
What matters is what the original game was. It matters not what you played first or what your country got first.
The US market is the only one that matters.
I think even this has been debunked in recent years based on interviews. That Doki/USA was based on a prototype for a SMB successor that was focused on vertical stages, though they hadn't decided yet if it was going to be an actual game. Makes sense since i doubt they would have gone through that much effort for the licensing agreement they had NHTV, unless they already had something semi complete they could quickly use.
It was news only for casual gamers and emulator kids
The Doki Doki Panic situation was mentioned multiple times on game magazines before we had YouTube, first when Mario All Stars was released, then occasionally through the 90's then again when Mario Advance was released. It was also openly talked about in niche forums. But these old mediums never reached the millions of normies
I remember watching ScrewAttack's Top 10 Worst Mario Games way back when and they included SMB2 on it because it was a reskin of another game.
"SMB2 was Doki Doki Panic!!!!!" is literally the lowest level most babytier bit of gamer trivia known to man. Every single kid whose hand touched a print magazine new it. It wasn't a "secret". We knew about it since before YOU were born, long before Youtube ever existed.
God, there truly is nothing I hate more than people like you.
>nothing that happened before I was born existed!!!!!
How does someone GET so fricking warped and egocentric? I know I may be biased about things I experienced in my adolescence too but at least unlike zoomer shitstains I have a healthy respect for all the great classic shit that was around before me.
This entire thread needs a fricking nuke.
While I agree with you overall point, you sound insufferable.
Nothing he said was wrong, though. He never said that nobody knew beforehand, just that in the early days of YT, some YTers would point it out as a factoid. And yes, people knew about it before then, but like so, so many things, easy internet access and YT made this knowledge far more accessible to the "average" person. People had been collecting arcade boards for home Supergun use, or home arcade use, for literally decades, but you're fooling yourself if you argue that YouTube had no impact on the arcade gaming at home market. Hell, outside of dedicated arcade collecting communities, candy cabs for home use were largely a "who gives a shit" thing in the US until the early 2010s, at which point you could go online on any given day and grab a decent condition Astro City for a few hundred, but now everybody and their mother in the USA jerks off to Astro Cities and gladly shells out well over $1.5k for them. Same with pro CRT monitors. Same with Japanese import games. Etc etc etc
>historical revisionism
Pikachu laying sideways, like your pic. It NEVER happened, since Pikachus originally could only lay on their backs, but people were led to forget that fact.
>Pikachu only lays on its back
bawd
Gunpei yokoi as the inventor of the GameBoy
Satoru Okada was robbed
Look at the History of Nintendo volume 4 by Florent Gorge
Satoru Okada also directed the first Metroid game yet most people think Metroid is strictly Yokoi + Sakamoto
Nintendo saved the video game industry (commentator completely ignores how they also nearly killed it in the 90s with the blatant hogging of the developer market).
This. Sony saved the industry from Nintendo's horrific practises.
>Sony saved
Wrong. I did. Sony just stole my credits.
>spoiler
?? This is literally what Sony was doing when they rolled out the Playstation, wtf
absolutely not. all of the ex-devs from SEGA bailed when they fricked up their gaming division in the West and a lot of the ones more interested in Nintendo jumped ship when they saw how inefficient the cartridge was going to be, and even if they stuck around, they would have to spend more and more money begging for extra copies that the company was hoarding for themselves. Even the Saturn was Disc based. PlayStation was the powerhouse purely because discs were far cheaper to produce and wasn't as much of a nightmare to work on.
Ironically, its completely switched over now, but the internet was notoriously disingenuous back in the day glossing over this shit because it would have meant e-celebs would get less credentials if they stated these simple truths and would have probably gotten shut down when the smartphone cancer took off.
>how inefficient the cartridge was going to be
ssd carts are infinitely better than discs. discs were never a good idea and never matched the storage capacity or speed of solid state memory. the fact you had to buy a solid state memory card just to save your game was a fricking scam. i'm psx > n64 for various other reasons but the n64 cartridge was clearly better in every way to sony's bullshit 3 and 4 disc games and needlessly small memory cards that could have easily been 4x bigger for the same price. discs were cheap to manufacture and they sold that garbage at the same price as carts and that's the only reason everyone switched to discs.
Because one thing (Nintendo reviving the US gaming industry) happened. The other thing (Nintendo allegedly almost killing it in the 90s with their poor business practices) was avoided.
It did both. Atari (basically) started the gaming industry and almost killed it. Nintendo very much saved the industry (at least in the US).
>Atari (basically) started the gaming industry
After they ripped off Ralph Baer who really started it.
Anon I literally put the word basically.
Did not happen in both cases.
The game industry crashing wasn't real, it was just bloated companies got destroyed.
The industry didn't crash, games were still being made everywhere including in America, without the Nintendo.
Nintendo didn't destroy anything in the 90s. The game industry is much bigger than USA.
The credibility of revisionists.
NuPC gamers thinking that Steam was some glorious ascension for the platform and that it was so hard to install games before it. It ignores both the fact of how controversial it was when Half-Life 2 came out and forced Steam/an online connection on buyers wanting to install it and the fact that similar BS requirements like EA and crappy Games For Windows, SecuRom, etc, were all introduced in the later half of the 2000s, around the same time as Steam. The 90s and early 2000s was a fantastic time with the worst you usually had to encounter was a number you had to type in included with the software.
The typical Gaben wienersucker likes to spout on about "piracy is teh service issue", not realizing that the only reason Steam is seen as superior, was because the other alternative DRM of the era was just as shitty, DRM put in place by paranoid publishers thinking it would stop piracy and instead just tainted the entire market for everyone who was just buying the software.
Steam sucked until the Orange Box. iirc Blue Shift from Steam was broken for years and the initial elevator you had to go into wouldn't move, the only way to play was to have the physical CD copy or pirate a version made from that CD.
My Half-Life Anthology CD keys stopped working and I used them before Steam was installed, so I emailed Valve with my CD key plus pictures of the box set and they added all the games into my account.
I never had trouble playing Counter Strike. Never understood the "steam sucks" memes. Maybe they were newbies that never played an online game before?
Because Steam was a slow buggy piece of shit that would frequently crap itself while updating.
It was a huge downgrade from just playing it through WON with a third-party server browser like .hlla.
Everyone who doesn't understand the Steam hate was not a PC gamer at the time and is just LARPing homosexual.
i rejected Steam for 15 years. became a console gaymer out of spite. now consoles are just as cucked so what's the point.
I remember my friend telling me that it was required to install Half-Life 2(my first time hearing of the "service") and i thought he was making shit up, kinda like my other friend when he got a 360 and was telling me about "gamerscore". Both just sounded too moronic to be real.
I jumped ship to consoles around the time frame after being primarily pc my entire life. Modern gaming just disappoints me in general, so consoles still serve my needs (besides the frickbox), but im close to just giving up entirely on anything new. The thing that really rubs me the wrong way besides the requirements that steam enforced to install games, is also how it really began the consolidation of PC as the platform into a single service for content. I wont argue it probably does help smaller devs out, but at the cost of funneling the majority into the equivalent of a consoles online store and "Steam" just becomes the defacto term people use for "PC gaming" now. Maybe if there was more competition on the platform I would feel different, but imo, the platform was more open prior to these big corps consolidating shit.
Windows is more and more dumbed-down tbh. they'll try to lock all non-store applications from running one day...
Oh im aware. It's one of the other reasons i barely play any modern pc games and why i will likely be going back to Linux for my work pc needs once Windows 11 is the only supported OS. Now hardware too is also apparently becoming locked down as well with security checks. Unfortunately a whole generation and a half has grown up with these "standards", so no one cares.
>they'll try to lock all non-store applications from running one day
Will they really go that far? Not even Android does that, and it's a very store-centric OS. Perhaps they'll just require to mess with some settings to be able to install .exe files in the future. Not that I really care, been using Linux exclusively since 2017.
GOG was decent enough competition until they started serving DRM games and spent way too much fricking time on Galaxy.
oh frick i remember that blue shift gitch, it was still present as late as 2015
>The typical Gaben wienersucker likes to spout on about "piracy is teh service issue"
The problem here is "order". Do you mean I need to suck Gaben's wiener first, then spout "piracy is teh service issue", or just say the line, and only after that shall I suck the dick? Because one of the options is unacceptable, whereas the other is based.
If you liked one of the PC genres the publishers were hell bent on killing for not being 5 million seller tier the 2000s were absolute shit. Digital distribution changed the incentives against smaller titles since they had access to the same distribution infrastructure as AAA instead, of having to beg Walmart to put their title on the one wire rack of sub-AAA PC games or die
Yeah, the mid to late 2000s were absolute dogshit for pc gaming. There's a reason everyone was hooked on MMOs; they were the only genre being made. Companies like EA and Activition bought up every single studio making PC games and shut them all down.
I mean the Stalker games came out in the mid to late 2000s not to mention Freelancer, The Precursors, Dwarf Fortress, Dawn of War and Dawn of War II.
I think right around 2006 there was a noticeable decline in developers prioritizing the PC platform with former PC devs leaving out features that were in prior games.
It was an actual reality that developers were noticeably making game sequels with less features than the prior games. DE ->IW, Crysis -> Crysis 2, TF -> TF2, etc. cuz who doesn't love it when you remove shit for no reason?
Besides WoW, I think the only AAA pc games i got after 2005 were Black&White 2 and Spore.
I pirated both of those badboys when they were new.
I thought TF2 was great, I absolutely loved it for years and years. That said I spent a lot of time in Garry's Mod learning wire mod so I could make automated killing bots in servers to troll. Good stuff.
Stalker was by Eastern Europeans crashing into the Western gaming scene. New blood. Freelancer and Dawn of War kind of predate what I'm talking about by a year or two, and Dwarf Fort is an indie game.
that Sega Saturn graphics were not considered stunning in 1996
Steam did get me back into pc gaming. Sure it wasn't hard to install but the benefit of steam was the platform for its features. Before steam you have to go search on websites for patches and multiplayer was annoying to set up. Gamestores had tiny spaces dedicated to pc games at this time and the platform was just dying. There was one game I brought and I had to sign up to their website to be able to download mods and updates.
1983 was still early days for video games outside america so they didn't get big enough to crash with stores dumping games because they think its a fad
>look guys I cherrypicked some random dude's opinion from a century ago that agrees with what I want it to agree with therefore this is now fact about what all people back then believed
The thing that YOU are leaving out is that Steam acceptance started happening around the same time that even worse more cancerous DRM started to get introduced. Remember fricking Spore having 3 installs total, and doing something as adding a new hard drive or upgrading the RAM made your PC count as a completely different PC? Steam is infinitely better than that shit, and that's why people didn't mind it as much.
No I didn't, I mentioned the other similar cancer of that era. The whole 2nd half of the 2000s was a quick decay. Doesn't change the fact Steam was forcing online registration right along dumb shit like EA was doing. The whole fight against pirates only hurt the honest buyer.
I remember when Steam rolled out and I wasn't upset by it.
>had my account since the steam beta back 2003
Games were absolutely a pain in the ass to install back in the day. Not impossible or even that difficult, but just frequently very jank.
Autists like you severely underestimate how much even a little friction can do to kill off engagement. It was not uncommon to find people with complete PC games in box that had never been installed simply because the owner had just never 'gotten around' to installing it.
In the late 90s/early 2000s? No they weren't. You put the disc in the drive, and installed the game from it. Most of the big games (Starcraft, Diablo 2, the Sims) didn't even need 3d acceleration.
Maybe if you were buying the big box AAA games from the major studios. If you were buying any of the AA kino of the time, it was nonstop jank.
Of course, you are a zoomer so you only think of the soulless goyslop of the period.
You are simply making things up. The only game I've ever gotten that would not work is Temple of Elemental Evil, and that is barely pre-Steam era. Even random games from demo discs or compilations would always work to some degree.
What fricking reality are you from? The installation process in the multimedia boom era was straightforward as frick until the mid 2000s unless you are talking about absolute fringe cases. If you were having problems running games, it was probably because you were using incompatible hardware or settings, something that Steam doesn't suddenly remove and is still an issue you can run into. The installation process itself was as user friendly as possible.
Yeah, it was uninstalling that was the issue
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>Games were absolutely a pain in the ass to install back in the day. Not impossible or even that difficult, but just frequently very jank.
In the 80s and up until the late 90s, yes, I agree. Multi-floppy installs throwing corruption errors, fricking DOS prompts, then Windows 95/98 illegal operations. The Mac experience was almost as bad, too. Or the PC would just randomly shut down during installs. Things got a lot better with Windows XP/Mac OS X Jaguar. I personally think Steam/battle.net have made things worse nowadays because they’ve essentially become nuisance spyware on your pc (not that your OS isn’t also watching everything you do now, too).
PC gaming was better when idiots were filtered out by sound card IRQ settings.
I like Steam because it codifies PC gaming under one platform and makes it easier for console games to be ported over.
Also while I'm a Windows user they seem to have helped out the Linux community, Microsoft is always pushing some moronation so at some point I'll probably switch to Linux.
I feel part of that also ruins the identity of PC as a platform. Most people are just using it as an alternative to play console style games.
Valve did help a lot with gaming on Linux. They didn't do it singlehandedly or for the goodness of their heart, but they boosted existing technologies to create a stable, compatible and, above all, easy-to-use environment for modern gaming. Purists don't like to admit, though Steam gave Linux a much needed traction in PC gaming. So that's a point in their favor.
Addition doesn't mean substitution. Classic PC genres still exist, although they were usually not mainstream, so when paired against popular alternatives they do fall to the background. However, it reminded me of that anecdote of a gaunt poor man, who got rich and then fatter. People told him he didn't look like his old self anymore, to which he replied "well, now I have money to buy food". Perhaps, this "identity" never existed, it was just that PC gaming was a niche hobby; when it became accessible, it showed to be as prone to fads like anything else.
It depends where you were from. I had a piece of shit internet connection until 2011 (32KBps). The fact that I could pause and resume downloads or load backups from friends copied from USB was a life saver and hence was universally loved where I was from.
Couldn't agree more.
Steam brought console war bullshit to steam.
Steam is one of the main reasons I pirate everything.
It wouldn't matter if I buy it on GoG, because all the money made is on Steam.
The crackdown by companies to try and prevent pirating via draconian ass shit is exactly what got me to start pirating.
Steam is the reason PC is as big as it is now, and the reason why it gets all of these ports that it would never dream to get back in the day. Yeah DRM sucks, but Steam DRM is easily bypassed.
No, lazy console ports started flooding with the 360 because those two Microsoft controlled development platforms became so similar it made it very cheap to port it to PC.
The fact that PC had a store similar to console digital purchases was a big reason too. Companies didn't have to make their own launcher, ship games to stores, get their own DRM, etc.
It really wasn't.
The 360 ports at the late 2000s didn't rely on Steam. They had retail versions, often used GFWL, and weren't exclusive to Steam in any way.
And the majority were buying things on Steam because of things like Steam sales.
Steam never got you a good deal on new releases.
Often I could get the retail version delivered to my home from Amazon cheaper than on Steam.
Steam sales mostly pushed shovelware, old games, and indies.
I mostly remember AAA games that were just 2-3 years old being like six bucks and year old indies being even cheaper. It really "on ramped" people into those segments. I hadn't played a multiplat AAA in years before that era but it was impulse buy based on a screenshot pricing. I had to learn to use a controller again.
You were the minority then. Most people like having their games together.
Gfwl was so hated it probably accelerated steam adoption
the fact that people dont know tezuka was behind a lot of the mario games and they only credit miyamoto
anytime people cite individuals or even small groups of people to success of a game its moronic. granted someone like miyamoto is a bit of an ezception given how much he controlled and decided, of course not everything was from him. tezuka and several others were also instrumental.
an underrated thing i respect about miyamoto is he only loyal to fun. if a good idea comes from him or anyone else he endorses it. and many great things about ,mario, zelda, and many nintendo games game from underlings who dont get the fame
It isn't moronic at all. Most classic video games were made by small teams of people.
you know what im refering to. miyamoto, kojima, gabe newell, etc
no one cares about indie gays or spectrum zx basement dwellers
There isn't a single instance of the word "meme" being used in MGS2
they do talk about what is basically the definition of the word meme but not they never say meme once, thats metal gear rising
I've always felt that the "Great Video Game Crash" and Nintendo 'saving' the video game market are somewhat revisionist (or failing that aggressively American centric).
The UK and Euro gaming scene was quite different and did not crash. Sure thise games are generally some what obscure (emblematic of early PC games and similar formats; C64, Amiga, BBC Micro etc) and I am happy for how things turned out with the explosion of console gaming.
I guess I don't get the whole sentiment of "And overnight, the whole world stopped playing video games" you see on overly sensationalised "history" videos, when in reality it was really just one country. Not denying it's an important country in the market - but c'mon.
i dont think it was a thing from the consumer's perspective. the average video game player was not concerned about atari's bottom line
There was no video game crash in Japan either. Arcades were booming, and MSX was fine. The so-called video game crash was really just the Atari 2600 over-extending its market appeal.
Wasn’t even that one country.
The PC gaming market in the US continued chugging along.
All that happened is that the 2600 "crashed" with the few consoles trying to ride its coattails of "fad popularity" with it and all it really did was slow down American releases for a bit which was unsurprisingly good for the industry. The idea that the "crash" killed Atari is moronic too, as the console division killed itself by being slow as frick to innovate and then sit on the 7800 till after their competition took their market. It's like they wanted their console division gone to be able to budget in more cocaine.
It's funny going back to the crash years and seeing that Atari themselves still published a bunch of games during that time. It was never an immediate drop off like say the Dreamcast discontinuing (and even that wasn't immediate)
The 'crash' in the US is a bit of hyperbole. Arcades and computer games continued on fine and it's not even clear that there was a particular disdain for consoles.
There's not even indication that there was a decline in consumer interest. It's just literally because moronic companies like Atari and Coleco were playing da 80s guy game and overleveraged their companies to shit and invited in a bunch of c-suites to help run things culminating in game sales needing to continue to grow at impossible rates to make the businesses viable.
The crash was a financial event rather than any kind of popular one. Everyone knew videogames were going to be movie huge but the financial reaction to this was to massively overinvest in Atari. Atari tries to justify this capital with insane sales gambles and loses it all. Finance gets burned and pulls back, Japan fills the gap. From the consumers pov it's just a lull between the 2600 and Nintendo
"Saving gaming" is very silly I guess, it was basically that nintendo ate the american's lunch because american finance had idiotically wounded their own industry. Similar situation to the .com crash, too much money in people trying to get in on the ground floor of something big before it was mature enough to use the capital
"game crash was usa only and didnt effect europe or japan" is the common knowledge presented as revelation by reddit normies nowadays.
its true, japan was fine with its consoles and eu its pcs. but the potential gaming market or consumer base in the usa ia too large to ignore. without it games wouls not have been as big. though if not nintendo or pcs, i think it was inevitible usa and and developed country would eventually embrace gaming, and it wouldnt take that long.
if anything i think we could say the narrative of nintendo saving gaming or aaving gaming even in only the context of usa is overblown. in any case the whole historical has been beaten into everyones mind more than than ww2 and im tired of talking about it
>I've always felt that the "Great Video Game Crash" and Nintendo 'saving' the video game market are somewhat revisionist
This.
There was no crash. There was a small contraction. DIFFERENCE.
There were still arcades everywhere, games everywhere, and myriads of home console choices in 1983-1985. Only the worst of the worst got tossed aside.
Bros. is pronounced "bros"
This thread sucks
Go make a better one then.
Crash never being popular (though this one has mostly been dispelled since the remakes)
Dreamcast being discontinued because it was a failure
DVD playback not playing a large part in the PS2's success
Any Pokemon generation, particularly gen 3, killing the series.
>Dreamcast being discontinued because it was a failure
this is true though. the significant price cuts didnt help the dreamcast, like they did for gamecube. and piracy was trivial on the dreamcast
>Any Pokemon generation, particularly gen 3, killing the series.
I believe this comes from personal bias; anyone who was a kid when Pokémon/Pokémania first happened was "growing up" to a young teen by the time of gen 3, so becasue they fell out of the series they assume everyone else did too
source: me
Gen 3 was great, and I was growing with the series. What alienated the more dedicated fanbase, though, were a couple of things:
>Inability to transfer Pokémon from the first two generations
>Completing the Pokédex requires an immense amount of hoops and possibly playing the GameCube games
gen 3 didn't kill the series but i think people forget how uncontroversial it used to me to consider it the worst gen
pokemon never died, so nothing killed ever killed it, but gen 3 killed pokemania
>gen 3 killed pokemania
Pokemania died during Gen 2. Crystal is still the worst-selling mainline Pokemon game of all time, the anime was also considered to have massively declined in quality with too much filler at the time. G/S sold well enough but people quickly noticed that the games were half-baked.
>pokemania died during gen2
please see the graph and show me where it says that. Holy frick this board is such garbage now
Most normal people stopped playing Pokemon during 2nd gen. Most modern pokemon fans are arrested development losers that refuse to let go of the past.
>deliberately obscures the fact that Crystal is the worst-selling game in the series
G/S sold well because people loved R/B/Y and expected an improvement across the board. What they got was a sloppy mess of a game with an atrocious level curve, a pathetic attempt at a story that revolved around Team Rocket trying and failing to bring Giovanni back and accomplishing nothing in the process, new pokemon hidden away in an extremely-gimped Kanto, and pokemon designs that were admitted by the artists to appeal to girls and sell plushies. G/S were so bad that Tajiri stepped down from active development and never returned to it.
Gen2 level curve discourse is the most blatant example of revisionism, actually. Thanks for keeping the discussion on topic!
Post the full list
>all the 3rd games in each gen at the bottom
no way wow. what a moron
>Crystal selling worse than Emerald which was supposedly part of the "gen that killed pokemania"
>Every other third version in the series sold better than it
Gen 2 was a dumpsterfire.
genuinely how the frick did gen 1 do so well
Massive fricking hype and cross promotion. Full media blitz. I remember my friend getting one of those promotional VHS tapes in the mail prior to launch. The anime even aired on UPN before moving to KidsWB, I think this might have even premiered on there a few weeks before the games came out.
Lightning in a bottle. They had the perfect appeal to just about every audience you could think of. A mixture of cool and cute monsters in a world that was child-friendly on the surface but was intriguing to adults as well with the various hints of lore. Not to mention the glitches unintentionally spurring on all sorts of crazy rumors about mystery Pokemon like Mew. They released late on a handheld platform everyone already owned so it was easily accessible. There was a legitimate reason to get all your friends into it so you could trade mons around and battle.
Then when it finally came to America they knew ahead of time that it would be a hit, so they already had all of the Japanese stuff to bring over that came after their own releases like
mentions.
By the time Gen 3 rolled around they had largely forgotten what made the series so successful in the first place and kept aiming too hard at just kids rather than everyone.
Doubt. I don't think any adults were into gen 1. I've never heard of anyone older than myself being into pokemon. Adults being into pokemon came about when kids grew up on the series. And even then a lot of gen 1 players (myself included) grew out of it before gen 2 was even out (I was barely young enough to be into it). Gen 1 was legitimately popular, but it also was in fad territory too.
It was the killer app for GameBoy Color. Those games moved handhelds like nothing before or since. People don't seem to be as toy crazy anymore, but maybe it was always just advertising and shilling through dinosaur media. Cabbage patch kids, tamagotchi, beanie babies, tickle me Elmo. Arnold starred in a movie about a father trying to score his kid a toy that everyone wanted.
In a few years we'll have movies about parents trying to buy their 13 year old a bottle of his favorite ethot's bathwater for his Christmas gift.
All the kids are phone zombies now
>the anime was also considered to have massively declined in quality with too much filler at the time
Most people back then didn't even know what the word filler meant dude, it's just episodes of the pokemon TV show. They didn't exactly have access to the source material to compare for what constitutes "filler". This is exactly what I mean when I say there is too much historical revisionism online. Congratulations you are a perfect example of what everyone in this thread despises by insisting on making shit up.
>G/S sold well enough but people quickly noticed that the games were half-baked.
>source
>my degree from Taco Bell
>Most people back then didn't even know what the word filler meant dude, it's just episodes of the pokemon TV show.
Most people were perfectly aware that most of the series had irrelevant plots that went nowhere and were a waste of time. I specifically recall people talking how bad the show became at school. Same with the filler episodes of DBZ, even if that specific term wasn't used for them.
Pokemania was still huge during Gen 2, the hype was immense and the movies were still selling well
What really killed Pokemania was the kids at the right age to embrace it growng up into y2k edgy teens, and the GBA games being just 8 bit GBC games with extra colors was the nail in the coffin
>inb4 but the new mechanics
walking was still boring, movement was still limited, maps were still blocky and featureless, battles were still long and static, story was still just a long series of fetch quests with extreme padding and the competition was much superior in the GBA than the old GB while the originality of having so many creatures to watch fight and interact with was gone.
>Pokemania was still huge during Gen 2, the hype was immense and the movies were still selling well
It was huge leading up to Gen 2's release and shortly after but quickly petered out during it.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-apr-04-fi-nupokemon4-story.html
>“Pokemon: The First Movie” grossed $85.7 million domestically, according to box-office tracking firm Exhibitor Relations Co. One year later the sequel, “Pokemon: The Movie 2000,” managed only about half as much, $43.7 million. The most recent installment, “Pokemon 3: The Movie,” took in just $17 million a year ago. Internationally, in all territories outside Asia where Warner distributed the films, the numbers also fizzled. The last sequel grossed $12 million.
>This week, New York-based 4Kids Entertainment Inc., which represents all merchandising and TV and film distribution rights to Pokemon outside Asia, reported that the company’s fourth-quarter profit plummeted 74% as revenue from the cartoon franchise declined. 4Kids Chairman Al Kahn was quoted as saying that the company’s results “reflect the slowdown of Pokemon-related licensing revenues between 2000 and 2001.”
To be fair Pokemon the Movie 2000 was crap
Even as a 10 year old Nintendo 64 kid who loved the first movie I came out of the theater saying I thought it was bad to my parents
Exactly. They didn't know how to follow up on Gen 1, they weren't expecting the series to become such a mega-hit. Gen 2's development cycle was a mess, they completely re-worked the design of the games like halfway through. Then they later realised the Johto portion was boring and threw in a severely cut-down Kanto to try and make up for it.
There was never a vision for gen 2 with no Kanto. In fact, Kanto was heavily expanded from the original design where it had all been compressed into one little town.
correct me if im wrong but that 4th movie with celebi was straight to vhs, at least in america, and didnt get a theatrical release
I know the image is bait, but it makes me wonder if "zoomer" will just become the defacto slur for people younger than you once Gen Alphas start flooding more internet communities, like "boomer" has become the term for anybody older than you.
Already is until someone finds a new funny word, and being we're in the stale era of the internet it may take a fricking while.
Considering zoomers parents just sat them infront ipads to watch millennial minecraft youtubers and gen alpha is being fathered by millennials who do the same they might as well be the same generation.
Pokemania might have died in that it wasn't the cultural explosion that it was when R/B were new (granted, it would've been nearly impossible to maintain that level of relevancy forever), but it was still very popular, and has remained quite popular since then.
>the g/s games were half baked
lol to this day people still regard Gold/Silver as the best games in the franchise
There are people who regard Bubsy as the best platformer of all time. Generally speaking, you won't find Gold and Silver topping many lists. The most common games to do that are either R/G/B/Y and D/P/Pt, with Japan being particularly fond of the latter
You are just being willfully ignorant out of some personal bias against gen 2 or in favor of another gen, probably 3, because you missed out on pokemania.
Gen 1, games/anime/etc/everything, was and always has been the most beloved and most popular. The next most beloved and highly rated is G/S, and for best games in the franchise, if not R/B/G/Y the most common choice is G/S.
As time moves on and the overall gaming population grows it becomes harder and harder to track such things in a sense similar to economic inflation (x is y dollars in 19xx money, etc) as newer games of any game franchise sells more now than before. Someone posted a chart in this thread showing sword/shield as the second highest selling, but i doubt many would claim it the most popular or even 2nd most popular gen.
some of the debate boils down to definitions of "popularity" which i think most people would agree going just on sales is silly, but sales + a significant weight given to how well they are received critically plays a part in the equation
>The next most beloved and highly rated is G/S, and for best games in the franchise, if not R/B/G/Y the most common choice is G/S.
On what basis are you making this statement, if not your own personal feelings? Based on both sales and opinion polls, G/S have slid down the rankings quite a bit.
1. from living in this reality and being in the conversations of video games irl and online for 30+ years
but lets do a few quick google searches. i did not cherry pick these, i opened various links and am not hiding any i found:
https://www.nintendolife.com/guides/best-pokemon-games-of-all-time?page=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/100qbb1/bestworst_pok%C3%A9mon_core_game_ranking/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/259372-pokemon-sword/78134333
https://soranews24.com/2022/12/20/survey-reveals-the-most-played-pokemon-games-in-japan-among-other-generational-trends/
People like G/S. You need to just fricking get over it dude.
On the contrary, people disliked various design concepts of G/S so much that the designers never attempted them again. Journos and redditors ranking G/S high among other titles just makes me more convinced that they sucked.
>company that has since become infamous for removing well-liked features also removed features in the past
>this is somehow a condemnation of the generation rather than a regular pattern of iteration
Gold and Silver were Red/Blue but bigger and better. A 16 badge journey across regions new and old with familiar and new mons as well. A living calendar with real time events and the passage of day and night. You could even trade with the original games. New types to address major complaints with the balance of the original games (even if this wasn't perfect) etc.
Ruby and Sapphire is when they pulled the rug and decided to aim for mediocrity as you describe. No day/night system, real time progression is limited to fricking berry growing and some useless cave, tons of Pokemon removed outright from the games and completely unobtainable until FRLG forced you to buy the games you already played again. One region with no progression of how the game is played, keeping virtually all of the flaws of the core mechanics from the older games and somehow managing to make HM use actively worse.
It was already rough considering a large portion of the target audience had grown up by the time they came out, but them spitting so hard in the face of those who kept buying the games was downright insulting. Ruby and Sapphire were a massive disappointment in virtually every way possible.
Gen 3 did add the abilities and natures and stuff like that, which made each individual Pokemon a little more unique than in previous generations, where they really only differed by some stat distributions. But I agree with you in that I lost interest in the series at that generation's launch. I like games to get better and better, and I didn't like that Gen 3 was a couple steps forward, but several steps back. I didn't care that dumbasses got filtered by the day/night clock and couldn't figure out how to deal with it. The Gen 2 changes and additions made the Pokemon world feel more realistic, interconnected, and rich. Gen 3 was a streamlining, and that's almost always a recipe for generic forgettable games.
Malding hoenbabby spotted
They are right, the series ducked out of the public zeitgeist once gen 3 hit and didn't really come back until gen 6/pokemon go happened.
lol copium trumpet toddler
Pokemon waffled back and forth between gens 3 and 6
3 less presence in the public consciousness
4 more
5 less
6 more
then GO cemented its current spot at the top of all culture
>gen 3 killed pokemania
Nah, Gen 2 killed it. People were hoping for a fun new region to explore and they got Kanto's backyard instead.
I always thought the Pokemon dying thing was over the anime; that one actually did start declining after the first generation.
Xbox won the online gaming race
PS2 was the best console of that generation
Gamecube had the best games
im a little biased cause I didnt get a PS2 till later but the games felt lackluster compared to the gamecubes library and how much fun I had with friends. meanwhile Halo and Halo 2 stole most of my teenage years with XBL
that video games nearly died in 1983 but nintendo saved it two years later
(even though everywhere but america was doing fine)
i still cant believe they turned metroid into a gril
They didn't, dumbass. Samus is Metroid's daughter, the original bounty hunter. The game is named after her father, just like The Legend of Zelda is named after the princess, not Link.
>The Legend of Zelda is named after the princess, not Link.
That's never been confirmed.
>The Legend of Zelda is named after the princess, not Link
source?
I have an old Nintendo Power lying around. I'm sure they mentioned it somewhere. It's one of those obscure trivia.
Baited
A lot of people legitimately believe that Gunpei Yokoi was murdered by Nintendo/Yakuza. I don't know where this rumor started, but the original news reports from the time of the incident are very clear about the events and what happened. The way he died is also fairly common way that people die and not at all out of the ordinary; that's why it's important to stay in your car after you witness an accident. It's a very cut and dry event.
And while we're on this topic: Nintendo and Yakuza. There is no evidence whatsoever for any sort of ties between Nintendo and the yakuza, and the only people who say this shit don't even know anything about the Yakuza.
All mafias and gangs are an extension of a nation, earning black budgets and inventing a reason to inflate police budgets. Japan's Yakuza are no exception and since the Japanese government has special interest in Nintendo, keeping it as Japanese as possible, then you could say the Yakuza also hold an interest, as well as the banks, because all banks and their owners/employees are also crooks. They're one and the same. Sony is much more of a global spook company than Nintendo, with ties to the CIA and post-WWII US occupation.
Gunpei Yokoi probably didn't die in an accident, but neither was he murdered. I suspect that he faked his death and was sent into an early retirement for his role in the Virtual Boy. He probably didn't want to accept the shame and public humiliation of stepping down, and had connections to the authorities who could manufacture the news report, eye witnesses, police, autopsy report, etc. The accident angle explains his disappearance, while the open question of murder also creates a buzz, and both angles stir the pot so much that no ever questions the idea of the event even happening in the first place.
This is even more deranged than the yakuza conspiracy lmao
Yamauchi and his family were said to have Yakuza ties, and the way Yokoi died was noted as particularly unusual in Japan, both in general and because both vehicles did a hit-and-run while seeming to be black and possibly unmarked cars.
>And while we're on this topic: Nintendo and Yakuza. There is no evidence whatsoever for any sort of ties between Nintendo and the yakuza, and the only people who say this shit don't even know anything about the Yakuza.
Yea if anything its the opposite. Based on interviews/books with interviews of jap devs of the era, it's been quoted that Nintendo was infact one of the few big, old school game companies that WASNT in bed in some way with organized crime, probably because they never had as strong as an arcade presence. I wouldn't doubt they probably may have in the 60s and 70s though.
Nintendo is ironically the cleanest company in Nippon. Maybe SONY rumours?
>There is no evidence whatsoever for any sort of ties between Nintendo and the yakuza
t. yakuza
>A lot of people legitimately believe that Gunpei Yokoi was murdered by Nintendo/Yakuza
It used to be just a joke. I dont know why people started beliving it as a fact
"Nobody liked Mega Man 4-6, nor the GameBoy games".
Having lived through that time, those games were beloved and then during the early BBS days of the internet in the mid 90s, the fringe pre-BN Mega Man fandom spoke highly of all Mega Man games as solid fun with the only outliers being the DOS games.
Mario is never actually referred to as a plumber in-game. That's purely localization bs they put into instruction manuals.
Why does he look like one?
can luigi go like 1 day without fricking everything up
Anon, that's showing that Mario & Co. are copper thieves. They're stealing copper pipes.
They were also homeless drug addicts before nintendo hired them. Sad but true.
That's a western comic translated into japanese though.
?? Most of the rpg games refer to his role as a plumber.
He's LITERALLY a plumber in Mario Bros.
Wind Waker being good in spite of being DESPISED when it came out.
Claiming that there is a "narrative" and "revisionism of opinions" is not retro and I wish this board wouldn't get affected by this idiocy and that's already at least 2 threads in the catalog about this.
The relevance of the n64
why do they always say that mario is italian when he's always portrayed as an american
He's an Italian-American; there's tons of those in New York.
>Italian-American
you mean like a dual citizen?
Yes
He's really italian but immigrated to the US
He talks as an italian guy who learned english as a second language not as someone born and raised in America with italian heritage
Probably because Charles Martinet did an Italian accent and not a New York one.
Calling it the SNES, or even worse, pronouncing it as a word ("snezz"). At the time, people just called it the Super Nintendo, or the Super NES (as in, "super n-e-s", not "super nezz").
>boomers were too moronic to use acronyms
bruh this isn't the flex you think it is
No cap, fr fr
>zoomers are too moronic to say words
is much, much closer to the truth
it was written as 'snes', but never pronouced that way. nes is an acronym, so is snes
That playOnline was bad
nothing wrong with a custom launcher but pointless bloat when it only supports one game and requires clicking through multiple screens just to get said game to actually launch
Uhhh, anon, it support 2 games. Did you forget about the shitty FF8 card game clone?
and a free email (that you lose access to if you stop paying your subscription fee!)
PlayOnline was an okay solution to a problem of needing to have a consistent game launcher and services system that could work on both PC and console.
The problem is that it literally dropped just as the web started to become what we'd recognize as 'modern' and so it felt unfathomably outdated and clunky even just 2 years after coming out.
The service itself wasn't the problem, it was that infamous FF9 guide relying on it.
That OoT is the best game ever.
It was lauded at least as incredibly on release as it ever was afterwards. The reviews treated it as a miracle that they weren't expecting, and it's just been praised more consistently than anything else ever since. It's an odd case of people going in expecting something truly great, only to be blindsided by something even better than that.
>Sega Genesis was a niche console
>PS2 had a good launch lineup
>GameCube was less powerful than PS2
>Dreamcast was more powerful than PS2
>Dreamcast competed with 6th gen consoles
>Banjo-Kazooie was a niche title
The shit I've seen zoomers say is insane.
>>PS2 had a good launch lineup
homie, it had DOA, Tekken Tag Tournament, Street Fighter EX, Armored Core 2, Dinasty Warriors 2, Ridge racer, timesplitters and UR day fricking one, plus a bunch of filler.
Showme what you consider a better launch
Dreamcast and GameCube. Also no one gave a shit about Armored Core back then zoomy.
armored core was more popular back then than it is now lmao. mecha shit in general was way more popular in the late 90s, early 00s. I'm not gonna let you gaslight about this, I was there. born in 1990
AC6 outsold every other Armored Core combined. I was also there, mech games were regarded as bargain bin trash back then, unless you were playing MechWarrior on PC.
>AC6 outsold every other Armored Core combined
Every time some worthless Black person posts this I am obligated to remind you that your source is a Japanese shitpost where someone on your level of biological worthlessness added up incomplete Japanese sales for other games and compared it to the global sales of NOT RETRO game.
AC2 was solid as a launch title, the knock on AC from game journalists types was having so many releases with changes they didn't notice or understand.
>Dreamcast was more powerful than PS2
It was in certain ways, like textures.
What happened to Banjo is a fricking tragedy. For a few years he was EVERYWHERE and then Rare went to Microsoft and just like that he was gone.
This. So many zooms saying Banjo was an obscure release when it was literally the biggest new Nintendo IP right before Pokemon came stateside. That bear was there right alongside Mario, Pikachu and Link in official advertising, on box art, on murals in Nintendo HQs. Banjo was the N64's version of Crash during that era. The biggest sin of the Rare sale wasnt losing the company, but Nintendo never fully buying out the rights for the Banjo IP which Rare apparently intended to gift to Nintendo.
>there's an alternate timeline where Banjo characters are regulars in Mario spinoffs
>Mario Party has a Grunty Space and she rhymes at you before stealing your shit
If only Diddy Kong Pilot got released. From what i recall from images, it was planned to have the DK crew, Banjo, possibly Grunty and im pretty sure it showed Mario as an unlockable character. (May have even had Conker) If Diddy Kong Racing wasn't enough to cement Banjo into the extended world of Mario, i think that would have done it.
One of the pre-release versions is basically finished and already has all the characters, has a few bugs that needed ironing out though. You got Diddy, Dixie, Funky, Donky, Kritter, Klump, Klap Trap, K. Rool and Cranky. No one else.
Wasnt there an official mock up of a character select screen showing Mario? I remember people discussing it a couple times.
Maybe, but not like mock-ups matter when you have near release builds. They were never going to get Mario in one of their games at that point anyway.
Shame. I was kinda thinking the nips wouldn't have allowed it anyway.
Not just a mockup, there was gameplay footage.
Man, that would've been cool. Could have swore there was also some build or screenshot or design document mentioning Banjo also in it, maybe as a secret character.
>What do you believe to be the single biggest case of "historical revisionism" within the retro gaming community?
People claiming that SNK actually had a rental program with Neo-Geo. Aside from them mentioning this in the very earliest marketing literature (from before the system even released) there is no other evidence whatsoever that this actually happened.
Your thread failed incredibly, it was thrash like this one.
You got so mad but there's no evidence from after the release of the system that it was rented. It was just an idea they had that made its way into the earliest marketing literature, and then was abandoned.
saying certain games are bad and didn't age well because 100 percent completion is tedious
>DK64 IS BAD BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MUCH STUFF TO COLLECT AND TAG BARRELS ARE ANNOYING TO SWITCH BETWEEN!!!
>MARIO SUNSHINE IS BAD BECAUSE BLUE COINS AND POSTCARD ENDING FOR COMPLETIONISTS!!!
That's the thing that immediately lets you know the person saying it wasn't buying games back then.
Imagine being mad that you couldn't beat a game with a save function in one sitting.
On the second level of Halo, Cortana states out of nowhere that the cave that you're driving through isn't a "natural formation". Most first-time players thought she was off her rocker, and were shocked when a later twist proves her correct. Nowadays everyone pretends like they always knew the cave wasn't a natural formation.
In the original Japanese releases of Pokemon (Red and Green), it was possible to encounter Mew, who was hiding beneath a truck near the S.S. Anne that could be pushed away using the Strength HM. This was removed from the Western releases of the game, along with various other changes, but you'll still see clips sometimes of people finding Mew in an English release. If you try it in your own game though, you'll see that there isn't a Mew there - the clips are all from English-patched copies of the Japanese Red/Green roms, rather than the natively-English Red/Blue game.
Dunno about Halo but you're definitely baiting with the Pokémon one
That poster is moronic. The tunnel in question is very blatantly artificially made. The reason the line is a meme to begin with is because it was once much more natural looking during development, but the tunnel was redesigned near the end of development and they never got Cortana's VA to record a new line to reflect the change.
The devs themselves even bring this up in Halo's developer commentary.
>Most first-time players thought she was off her rocker,
Why would you think that? Cortana knows her shit.
Lmao what I played Halo as a kid and it was obvious to me that it wasn’t a natural formation it was a floating ring in space.
maybe a troll post but the halo thing was sort of a mistake. i dont remember the full story but it was supposed to be less obvious or something but they couldnt rerecord the line or forgot. if you watch halo deva react to speedrun on youtube they mention it. i think its the one with marty o donnell
Saying the N64 Zelda games are good
Can't even say something about it in the timespan I bought the 64 with 2 or 3 gaems Zelda wasn't even out there duh
Saying the original Super Mario Bros. is a good game.
Don't get me wrong it does some revolutionary stuff for the time but it's aged like fricking milk
OTOH SMB3 has aged extremely well.
Hello, gentlemen!
I caught wind of this charming thread.
Quite unfortunate, there are a few events which happen to displease my person. Pardon me, for I shall name them "historical revisionisms", as it provides myself a much needed cope.
It was a delight spending our short, but meaningful, time together. I take my leave now.
Tomb Raider is outdated and a relic of the past. It was a quick fad and never left a mark on the industry unlike M64.
Serious question: what mark on the industry did M64 leave? It seemed like "platformer in 3D" without much more to say about it than that. I didn't finish the game though.
FF3/6 was always popular in the West.
Metroid Prime was a hit and set a standard for FPS that everyone followed religiously.
Are you saying that those statements are revisionism, or that they are the truth?
Who the frick says the 2nd half of the bottom one?
Zoomers exaggerate the influence of YouTube video essayists, I've even heard some say Nintendo wasn't popular in the 90s, that nostalgia-poisoned YouTubers are making up Nintendo's history of goodwill among gamers.
I still remember when Zelda was a young Christian missionary spreading the good word.
I still can't believe there are unironic anon's out there that fall for this shit decades later. It was purely a marketing stunt to pry kids from gullible hardcore Christian parents at the height of evangelicalism in the US.
Looking at the symbolism of the games now, while I'm not religious, after seeing the timeline of the imagery of games, its hard to ignore the rather malevolent intentions behind the ordeal. Its pretty insidious.
Neither of these things are true.
Any religious iconography in Zelda is used for aesthetic purposes only. Nintendo actively prevented explicit religious references in games for their consoles.
I was talking about in the promotional material mainly. Ingame there is almost none of it, but his loyalty to a rather Western Royal House with holy-like iconography is a definite giveaway that it was intentional.
>Any religious iconography in Zelda is used for aesthetic purposes only. Nintendo actively prevented explicit religious references in games for their consoles.
Only for English markets.
>He didn't play the original
You didn't beat the game.
>burns/bombs his way into your home
>HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THE LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST
sounds about right
christianity belongs in castlevania not zelda.
In the 00's the Genesis was generally considered much inferior to the SNES and mocked online for the lack of colors and harsh sound. Also Sonic was never good and Donkey Kong Country won the console war.
Then suddenly the internet decided that the Genesis was actually better and the SNES was obviously inferior at some point in the 10's because of processor speed, Sonic was great, Donkey Kong Country was just pretty graphics.
I feel like the tide is turning again in SNES favor right now.
It’s always been heavily contested, which is why the argument is ongoing
DKC's low point in public opinion was definitely the early-mid 2000s, not helped by things like jungle beat's devs saying "we removed all the old characters except donkey kong and The Banana™ because they weren't fresh enough for today's audiences"
I do remember seeing a lot of posts that usually went along the lines of "LMAO the only good games on Sega Genesis are Sonic 1, 2, and 3. That's it! Get a SNES instead! You'll get more games and music that isn't fart sounds!" in the early 2010s. This was also perpetuated by the popular e-celebs at the time who were all Nintendo fanboys and wouldn't dare touch another console, especially Sony or Sega. It started going away when Game Sack was started to gain traction in some gaming communities that were happy to finally see an e-celeb talk about the Sega Genesis library for once. After that, a lot of former celebs like Mike Matei who used to be hardcore anti-sega suddenly doesn't mind it anymore.
>Mike Matei
>celeb
I lol'd. The only reason anyone have ever paid a speck of attention to that guy is because he had peak-AVGN as his spokesperson. The duo have fizzled out now, and Mike is no more than a sperg, not unlike the thousands we have all over the Internet.
I thought this thread was moronic, because of this modern mentality that "my opinion is fact and everything that challenges is a revisionist conspiracy" that people in every subject have.
However, these 2 things really, really piss me off:
>Old games were only ever difficult to combat rentals or to sell strategy guides or because the devs didn't know what they were doing. That's right, players actually hated it and it was all a conspiracy to make them hate the games so that they would buy more!
and also
>Final Fantasy 1 was an *exceptionally* buggy game and because the programmer was a gaijin moron who had no idea what he was doing
>because the programmer was a gaijin moron who had no idea what he was doing
What's really funny to me is this idea that's been propagating that Japanese devs "were really just bad at code all along". It's not that the Japanese games are supposed to be 'unoptimized' or anything like that, but rather that, because Japanese devs do things like code logic on a frame by frame basis, people have decided that western games are "more robust" even if this doesn't matter if you intend animations to display at a specific rate on a specific console (and pull that offer than devs from other backgrounds).
Like, purely in terms of code architecture, you can see from decomplilations alone how actually sophisticated Nintendo games from the 90s actually were.
>the revision:
games were hard and I was a child gaming prodigy because I beat them
>the reality:
games were hard and I used game genie
If you think about it zoomers are much better gamers than dirty, cheating boomers ever were. You can't cheat an Xbox game.
they just started building the cheats into the games, most of these games are basically spoon feeding you save states for all the progress you lose when you die
This. Gitgud/"you didn't beat it" culture wasn't a thing until at least the mid-00s if not the 10s. There was no shame in saying that the game cheated if you lost and cheating right back to make things fair. Hell, you often didn't even need external devices, as the games generally had hidden codes/passwords for things like level select or perma-invincibility built into them.
>"it was never abbreviated as PSX"
'sonic was always bad/never good'
just a blatant lie. some people like it, some dont. but therell always be kids who wanna generalize and speak for others.
Luigi's Mansion used to be considered a mixed bag, not a fantastic game. Super Mario Sunshine had a similarly mixed reception, but is now beloved. Those who grew up with it can't see past their nostalgia and understand why they aren't top tier games
t. Also grew up with these games
>Super Mario Sunshine had a similarly mixed reception, but is now beloved
I've seen non-stop shitting on Sunshine for the past couple of years
I was not referring to /vr/. I was referring to the general public, such as on YouTube and other such places. Sunshine gets nonstop praise in those areas.
The change in reception is because people were blinded by their biases and expectations at the time, but now they can look at the games with a more disinterested perspective.
While it is possible that the original expectations led to a bias, the high likelihood of nostalgia bringing in bias later on shouldn't be ignored. If a game was considered a mixed bag when it was released, but all you see are blind praises from people who likely grew up with it these days, it's hard to believe nostalgia isn't the main factor.
I don't see blind praise for Sunshine. Maybe a bit for Luigi's Mansion.
Luigi's Mansion was the one I was more referring to. It is hard to find people even discussing why it's flawed. For Sunshine, people typically at least mention the flaws, but will handwave them and say why the love it anyway. The amount of people I've seen call Sunshine their favorite Mario game on the internet is insane.
Luigi's Mansion was pretty mid yeah
Linear, simple, short, it's something that only came into the limelight because that's what was kinda in in the late 2000's. Not to mention it being a simple game to just emulate or play in an afternoon if you had a basic sense of what you were doing.
fun, though
It also was graphically impressive for the time. It was made to show off the capabilities of the Cube, especially the lighting. And it did very well.
pretty much exact opposite to the truth.
both games were beloved and only received some "ackshully your childhood games le suck" year and years later by people like you
Thank you for providing historical revisionism, but the theme of the thread is not making your own revisionist history, but bringing up actual examples.
unironically "no u"
trying to say people actually disliked luigis mansion and mario sunshine is laughably moronic
You didn't read what the original post said.
Nooo I was there and had both those games. I remember playing Mario64 for the first time at my friends house and was blown away by how much cooler and trippier and legitimate it was than super mario sunshine, which is a piece of shit game really. Luigi’s mansion I hated as a kid. I grew up to beat it, but as a kid I thought it sucked. It’s a piece of shit game for gays really…
The whole "Final fantasy is named such because it was probably going to be Square's final game", opposed to the truth of "We wanted to call it 'Fighting Fantasy', but that was taken, so we went with the next best F word"
And here I thought it was because they wanted a name similar to Ultima.
Both are true
not really revisionism but people forget >PC GAMING IS DEAD was meme for almost 2 decades, or have different opinions about what "saved" it
No, it was a meme for a very specific moment of time, the mid 2000s, when the big video game publishers were purposely trying to kill it. So I don't even think it is a meme and is more like shilling.
I saw a zoomer youtuber once talking about how the original Pokemon games were full of mystery and people were trading tips on the playground on how to catch specific Pokemon.
In reality, every game magazine had lists, the Prima guide was at every walmart, and almost everyone was able to just get online and read about this shit on GameFAQs or GameWinners.
Larped too hard zoomer.
this is moronic and incorrect.
yes there were official guides at stores. but strategy guides were written by dumbfrick journalist types walking you through basics. they rarely if ever understood deeper mechanics and gave basic b***h "strategies." example, ffx official strategy guide never talks about formulas for aeon training or turn order manipulation, every boss strat was just "grind until you get the next level of magic spells, spam attack and heal when low on hp. its tough, good luck!"
likewise they rarely ever wrote about secrets, easter eggs, etc. some games had easter eggs or cheats or other secrets that werent in guides and is was reasonable to believe certain things without confirmation until trying yourself.
online sites like gamewinners or gamefaqs would have more details but generally it would have cheat codes, gameshark codes, walkthroughs, or other dumb things that people called "tricks" etc which amounted to nothing more than small little emergent gameplay things.
games absolutely had more mystery around them. kids especially had less access to what available information existed. there werent exactly smartphones. at best your dad had a dial up pc in the living room which you could only use when at home before bedtime and not when your family was using it or the phoneline. or you didnt have a pc at all
Both are true. You can have all the facts available to you, but kids are gonna be kids, they will go out of their way to find the too good to be true bullshit secrets like Pokegods and Pikablu, believe whatever rumors the kids on the playground tell them, and be entirely convinced that their catch rate did indeed go up when they held down some combination of buttons while throwing a Pokeball. There was so much content actually in the games and so much general hype around Pokémon, that it felt like there just HAD to be even more shit hidden away that even guides wouldn't reveal to you. Doesn't help that there were indeed bizarre glitches like MissingNo. which gave the illusion of a super top secret Pokémon that existed beyond the scope of any sort of published documentation.
You weren't born yet.
"Sonic Adventure is a bad game". The biggest lie that is still repeated ad infinitum.
lmao
It's a janky, shitty experience. If you have bad taste, don't blame on everyone else.
Don't look up when sonic adventure came out and also when sm64 came out
The idea that video games were not mainstream in the 80s and 90s.
They were popular but heavily stigmatized by normies and older generations, especially depending on what you were playing. Nowadays it’s normal to dump hours and hours into one game, but back then it made you a social outcast.
>heavily stigmatized by normies
Not by anyone under 40.
"steam is bad, actually" is definitely a recent idea that takes into account 20 years of hindsight
I'd genuinely like to know more about the issue, since I was never too deep in PC gaming because of my usual low-spec machines. The only difference I notice is: back then, I used to buy a PC game in a brick-and-mortar store; now, I do it online. For me, that's it. A point of view from a casual.
Maybe someone has the animated gif of the steam uploader failing; it is from the period. That was the SA crowd though. I never had trouble playing Counterstrike or DoD. This predates Steam being a shop. Online play being spotty was standard at the time.
I see. I'm not being smug or anything, I'm only curious to know if there was some real downgrade after Steam or it's mere nostalgia. It's the second occasion I ask it in Ganker, but no one actually argued in favor of the past, so that leads me to being skeptical.
As mentioned in this thread and the other one up about "did piracy kill pc gaming", the platform really was going down the shitter in the 2nd half of the 2000s after the golden age of the 90s/multimedia boom period. Many of the core PC genres were dieing out (rts, point n click, fps to an extent)(mmos had a renaissance though), companies were either shutting down or being consumed by bigger fish(like EA) and in turn there was a futile fight against pirates that only pissed off the honest consumer with bullshit DRM practices being ramped up. Steam's existence is born from that era, where as before it was essentially a service for matchmaking. Steam won out as being the least hostile of the draconian shit, so people like to pretend they are 100% the good guys, but if anything it's more like stockholm syndrome. Younger players and those who hadn't been into PC gaming till after Steam became established as a storefront dont really know about anything "pre-Steam" and because no competent competitors have challenged them, Steam is just associated as "PC gaming", which is really sad and kinda defeats the purpose of PC being an open platform.
>the 90s/multimedia boom period
i want to go back
>Steam is just associated as "PC gaming", which is really sad and kinda defeats the purpose of PC being an open platform
I see, that's a good point. Thanks for telling. I didn't face any anti-piracy measure besides inputting a serial code. Then, again, I think the last physical game I bought for PC was Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2. Nowadays, are there really no alternative for independent publishing? I heard GOG went down the drain, they had a DRM-free policy, if I'm not mistaken. However, from what I get, seems like even smaller devs like some sort of DRM, so piracy of their games won't go out of control. Go figure what people want.
Fighting piracy, atleast on pc, just seems like a futile effort imo. Sure, the big heads expect it in their products, but i have never once heard a pirate say "well i cant get a crack of this game so im going to spend money on it". Maybe now a days some do, but the truly dedicated ones i cant see spending a cent.
Steam is popular now, and it was then. I hated it then, and I hate it now.
It was a major controversy for a time in the PC gamer circle when Half-Life 2 required it. Before that, it wasn't a particularly favored launcher/game networking utility.
Its both, originally no one wanted to sign up for some bullshit service to play a game (then as now). Installation and patching was NBD with or without it, it wasn't the early 90s anymore. Then steam had deep sales on 2-3 year old AAA games, lots of good fotm indies, and a good store and friend system and it felt justified in the early 2010s. Now they basically stopped being very good but it's like amazon, what are you gonna do, you can't not use it
That people grew tired of series after the 2nd entry. Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, Crash, "retro gamers" always say that people grew tired of these games by the 3rd entry, but RE3, TR3 and Crash 3 were all really popular.
Reviewers got tired of series by the third entry. It was pretty common to see that.
Piracy killed the Dreamcast.
Everyone called it Playstation X
Nobody called it that, but “PSX” was pretty commonly used as an abbreviation
Please, oh please, do not start this argument and derail this thread.
Sounds like you just can't handle the truth.
I have no strong opinion on the matter.
>Xbox, PS2 and GameCube are totally retro consoles
>Near is part of the 42% for real now, and didn't just unpersoned himself in Japan (where there are numerous companies dedicated to ereasing your digital footprint in additton to helping you legally forge a new identity).
>Saturn Doom1 could've been the best console port of Doom, had it not been sabotaged by John Carmack's weapons-grade autism
>Spoiler
Why are you so obsessed about some overrated autistic troony?
>is that, a different coloured banana? AAAA IM LOSING MY MIND LET ME CHANGE KONGS WITH THE DPADS! SHIT GAME!
DK64 is a bad game.
If anything I see this as current revisionism to try and make it seem like DK64 was good. Like those people who defend Sonic 06. I won't be surprised whenever someone starts posting how Big Rigs is just misunderstood.
Except DK64 was actually very well critically received back in the day. Meanwhile even back in 2006, Sonic 06 was given middling to negative reviews.
Speaking personally I remember DK64 was one of the last N64 games that almost everyone I knew with the console either had or wanted. OK the other hand, people were hyped for Sonic 06 only for it to be an embarrassing letdown in the end.
>What do you believe to be the single biggest case of "historical revisionism" within the retro gaming community? Bonus points if you can actually PROVE the revisionism instead of just saying that it happened.
The internet and general consciousness has spewed that Dig dug was always Taizo Hori. In reality, Dig Dug was 2 types of people. A blue alien creature and a white colored humanoid, former was the developer’s intentions and the latter was marketing. The latter, the white humanoid, led to them making Dig Dug 2 a humanoid with normal looking skin which isn’t a bad thing but keeps true to some original intentions at least. Different interpretations for the latter included a butt chin humanoid, but that was because of a license given to a a third party and that was their interpretation. For a long time, there’s been merchandise of Dig Dug being a blue alien, I’ll try to post the toys and plushies if I can find the pics again but here’s a sample from a book with the approval of the developers + Namco themselves. It wasn’t until Mr. Driller where they ruined the canon and Yasuhito Nagaoka (NOT Hideo Yoshizawa) thought it was a good idea he should transform Dig Dug into a divorced alcoholic father who’s now a wash up now with his son taking the spotlight. While I love Mr. Driller, Nagaoka has contributed a significant but minority damage to the series. Leading Bamco to eventually create the UGSF, a integrated universe of their ips like ace combat among others, then trash it completely because not only it’s a clusterfrick of a lore but it’s completely moronic and no reason why they should make stand alone ips related. Bamco has in the recent decade, flip flopped between all three interpretations and STILL heavily lean towards the alcoholic. While I love Mr Driller, I and a lot of retro jap enthusiasts hate that they are STILL running with the alcoholic interpretation because that just makes things distasteful.
And it doesn’t really help Hiroshi Ono went back on his word, presumably under pressure from Bamco, to say the only reason he was blue was because he didn’t have oxygen, in his book around 2018. He died a few years later and fans continue to ignore this bullshit retcon just to justify a wacky patch haired substance abuser because it’s supposed to be funny.
Will Nintendo retcon Mario into something else entirely after miyamoto dies? We will have to wait and see. Nothing is sacred
I’m here again. Here’s something from 2018 that they conveniently made (OC) called Anna, who’s a dig dug driller and a cohort of a short mini series made to promote Bamco’s YouTube channel because it was not gaining any traction. Went as far as making the distinction between the original dig dug who’s an alien like Anna, and taizo. Night /vr/
>I and a lot of retro jap enthusiasts hate that they are STILL running with the alcoholic interpretation because that just makes things distasteful.
frick off. We love Taizo Hori, he's based.
>frick off. We love Taizo Hori
>We as in me and my schizo taizo tulpa
Unironically drink yourself into a coma and stop posting
honestly i'm starting to think that "Everyone hates Taizo Hori" is the biggest case of historical revisionism in gaming.
>honestly i'm starting to think that "Everyone hates Taizo Hori" is the biggest case of historical revisionism in gaming.
It’s not “hate” as much as it is distasteful and disrespectful to the history and fans. There’s been Japanese fans asking to make him canon alongside the original blue dig dug and the white faced dig dug but bamco is so far up their ass that they continuously want to screw up all their gaming continuities. Kinda like how they went back and forth on PAC-Mom (the oc to replace the clusterfrick that is Ms.Pac-Man) being both Pacman’s mom and wife. When sakurai said the folks over there were clueless about their original ips, I thought he was joking. Now I’m starting to believe him entirely
It makes sense when you think about it. All the fans there clamored for a new game but some idiot there is insistent on making spinoffs and remasters of digdug 2 which people did NOT like.
>There’s been Japanese fans asking to make him canon alongside the original blue dig dug and the white faced dig dug
nobody has said this
Anon, I’m the resident digdug poster around these parts. There has, you just don’t browse Japanese Internet forums and twitter like I do.
Hiroshi Ono, who strictly did sprite work, had his house raided a few years after making his book where he retconned so many stuff even though he had no development or branding responsibilities to these games. Some fan stole his original artwork and I suspect it’s from a dig dug fan. The backlash was pretty bad, retro enthusiasts are like that in japan. He then called the book off shelves and said he’s retiring from freelance work due to the incident.
nobody has said that
>When sakurai said the folks over there were clueless about their original ips, I thought he was joking. Now I’m starting to believe him entirely
Where did he state this and in what context?
>Where did he state this and in what context?
Not that anon, but smash bro’s interview Pac-Man reveal. He said something along the lines of that when he asked for Pac-Man to be in smash, the people that worked there looked at him bewildered and forgot they even own him.
Is this like how for a while Hudson couldn't agree on what the hell Bomberman was supposed to be? There's an MSX game where he's some dude dressed like Indiana Jones.
Just looks the part for videogames of the era. Boulder dash dude was a tomato back then.
>Is this like how for a while Hudson couldn't agree on what the hell Bomberman was supposed to be?
Hudson was pretty much a cluster frick in terms of branding and identity for their games in their early days when that was made, a lot of companies were like that. Namco’s issue in that post was that the original intentions of the devs and creator (Masahisa Ikegami) was ignored and defiled for Nagaoka’s own opportunity to impress the Namco CEO. The only time I can say bomberman genuinely experienced this was bomberman zero which was supposed to be a retcon/reboot, which does insult everything the series stood for and devs intended.
Consistent branding/backstory/character art in games wasn’t so much of a thing until the 32-bit years, yeah. Hudson was actually one of the first to do it - the first PCE Bomberman title established consistency that continued a long time
>n64 was more popular then ps1
it was. ps1 was more powerful and had more games, but for most of the gaming audience (younger generations) the best games of a given type or genre generally resided on n64. even if ps1 had a good game, the n64 generally had a better one
>platformer
>mario 64 and banjo vs crash, spyro, and croc
>action adventure
>oot, majora vs. ???
>wwf wrestling
>wresltemania, no mercy vs. smackdown
>racing
>mario kart, diddy kong racing, beetle adventure racing vs. gran turismo, ridge racer, etc
>shooter
>goldeneye, perfect dark, etc vs. rainbow six?, syphon filter?
also n64 had pokemon and ps1 did not.
the best ps1 games like mgs and rpgs like final fantasy were appreciated by the minor older generations, but the younger gens wouldnt appreciate as much until they got a bit older (by the time ps2 came out)
>but for most of the gaming audience (younger generations) the best games of a given type or genre generally resided on n64
This may have been the case in North America, but everywhere else in the world everyone wanted a PS1 and preferred those games
once again, for you small country europeans and south americans, america virtually *is* the world.
no one cares what people in belarus, andorra, and guyana played. might as well just say "in my house, x was more popular than y" like uh ok sure?
>it was. ps1 was more powerful and had more games, but for most of the gaming audience (younger generations) the best games of a given type or genre generally resided on n64. even if ps1 had a good game, the n64 generally had a better one
Yet the PS1 and its games absolutely stomped the N64 and its games in sales. Where did those sales come from if not "most of the gaming audience"?
families buying it for its ability to play cds, dads buying sports games, japs getting their mahjong fix, etc.
sales is not the only variable in the equation for popularity. most people i knew had both an n64 and ps1. everyone was always playing the n64 and talking about n64 games. banjo, mario, pokemon, goldeneye, no mercy, etc. looking back ps1 of course has very strong library, esp games like mgs, final fantasy, and other rpgs among others. but for younger generations especially what were they playing, or trying on the ps1? anecdote warning: here are some games either me or someone i knew had and tried
parappa: broken and hard, not that fun or engaging to begin with
spice world: trash
croc: trash
crash, spyro: decent, but wed rather play mario/banjo
wwf smackdown: kinda bad, n64 wwf games much better
tomb raider: sucked
yes its anecotal and there are huge franchises out there like resident evil, twisted metal, FF, mgs, etc etc but we didnt have google and wikipedia and Ganker to tell us about what existed and what was good. unless you were at least in high school if not college or an adult you just went for games that seemed similar to what youd like, seemed fun, etc based on box art, word of mouth, etc. you also didnt have disposable income to sink into try swathes of games.
nintendo had the brand recognition and recognizable ips of mario, zelda, pokemon, etc that was easier to gravitate towards and build familiarity or loyality with.
nowlooking back there are probably more ps1 games than n64 games i like, but this is how things went back then. you cant just line up lists of games or say this console sold more so it was more popular. its not that cut and dry
I forgot what genuine mental illness looked like.
>Simon's Quest was a bad game
Frick you James, people loved it when it came out.
It wasn't one of the best in the series, but yes, AVGN was the main reason for the amount of hate. But AVGN, especially early on, was just a character poking fun on the idea of someone getting extremely angry at NES games nobody talks about anymore. It's on the audience taking it as proper criticism other than nitpicks and exaggerated anger that's more to blame.
just reading the title makes me hear the music and i didn't even grow up with it...
AVGN was satire originally. The character literally couldn't enjoy ANY game, that was the joke.
>What do you believe to be the single biggest case of "historical revisionism" within the retro gaming community? Bonus points if you can actually PROVE the revisionism instead of just saying that it happened.
Shigeru Miyamoto is responsible for Mario’s success; no that was also partly on Tezuka
Shigeru Miyamoto created Captain Falcon, no that was Imamura
Cliffy having any influence on the FPS genre
>Steam saved PC gaming
Look at this fricking chart and point out how PC gaming was in a state of freefall before Steam appeared. No, PC gaming was improving from it's 90's stasis. The market for PC gaming was growing before Steam appeared. People just credit Steam for appearing three years after PC gaming entered an uptrend thanks to the internet.
Am I reading this chart wrong? How are arcade games outperforming console games in modern times?
You are reading it wrong
After sleeping I now see how I was being moronic.
When people say that they don't mean Steam launching. 2003 Steam is just a Valve launcher, it didn't start resembling modern Steam until 2007-2008.
The treatment of anything other than Nintendo franchises as if they're obscure. Retro gaming youtube being made up mainly of Nintendo fans meant that people talked about (and still talk about) series like MGS as if they were some obscure thing nobody heard of when in reality they were very popular in their own time.
>series like MGS as if they were some obscure thing
the frick?
>Sonic was never good
Sonic games are pretty fun when you don't have a homosexual YouTuber whining that you aren't having fun.
It is wild how the uninformed opinion of some idiot can gain such sway in the internet age just because they put a video about it out there. The Castlevania 4 whip fiasco stands out too.
OK, but the guy you're talking about WAS correct about how the octo-directional whip makes special weapons near useless.
I recently played The Death Trap, one of Square's earliest games. So because it's Square, it has an English wikipedia article bigger than the Japanese one. In it is the claim that all Japanese (ADV) games used English input before this game due to aping of the apple II ADV games.
I assumed it was clumsy writing which led to this claim, but no. The guy who archives Japanese games actually said "Until then, all adventure games in Japan, you had to type the commands in English" about a game released at the tail-end of 1984. This wasn't a 2002 article where it was a bit harder to play these games, but one from 2019 by the current president of the Japanese Game Preservation Society so that claim is even more strange.
At this time Japanese developers started experimenting more with text-parsers with rudimentary IMEs so you don't have to KANA lock and more importantly a few games with menu-based input. Of the ADV games from 1983 and 1984 I played, the large majority definitely accepted Japanese input and a few before that also did Japanese+English or Japanese+romaji even, definitely rarer but not unique and also largely pointless. I understand it's not a too interesting topic, but it just came to mind.
That girls actually used to intently play real videogames back in the 90s and before. Modern gamer gamergrrls will dig out some photo of them playing their brother's NES, or a Christmas day recording featuring 2 minutes of their entire 2 hours of cumulative playtime of Pokémon Blue, to prove that they were definitely real gamers and total nerds back in the day, but it is obviously a ruse. Their childhood gaming was very limited, and was entirely dropped by the time they were in middle school, and by highschool, interest in videogames (outside of Madden and whatever other games Chads were commonly playing) was used as a red flag warning to weed out creepy boys. Now they pretend to have always liked games because it's trendy, and they're no desperate to find a provider from the same pool of boys they once deemed creepy.
>and was entirely dropped by the time they were in middle school
This much is true. My sister is older than me and was the reason I got into games in the first place. She played plenty of them as did the other girls she knew who would come over to play co-op on multiple titles, but every single one of them completely dropped the hobby outright before they even finished elementary school and never looked back, and if I tried to talk about games with them they'd act like I was nuts despite being just as into them as I was if not more years prior.
It's something I still don't fully understand, but seems like a near absolute rule.
Driven by the social mainstream. If they hear that videogames are for losers and/or little kids, they'll drop them in a heartbeat. Same reason why some suddenly rediscovered their interest in games in their mid 20s to 30s.
That's not to say there aren't some lifelong female gamers, but I think you'd be hardpressed to find a female gamer in her mid 20s and up who can produce any indication that she was actively playing videogames when she was 18 years old.
Pretty much every fricking girl who I have ever met who claimed to be a great gamer would say shit like
>played fighting games with my uncle growing up and beat him and my friends all the time
Then I would play them, without having played fighting games much but have watched them, and would wipe the floor with them with the most basic fundamentals.
Only girl I ever met that was actually good at games was ridiculously good at Gears of War on the 360 for some fricking reason. Then one weird autistic girl who was hot and liked anal and loved Fallout 1 and 2.
The rest played Sims or Tetris.
Fighting games are just fricked up like that. You can play other people in your close circle for ages, but as long as they don't know the game inside out to the point of knowing how to quickly figure out how to counter any possible thing, they're just going to get fricked up by the most basic shit if you happen to do it. 'Serious' fighting game players basically live in a completely different world to people who played them casually.
My cousin was like that. Her dad, my uncle, for some reason really was showering her with video games she occasionally played but did not care about. He worked in tech companies and he and his wife really had not much time to spend with her. For me and my brother it was amazing. She had a Genesis and a SNES and a PC, I think she broke her Genesis in a month and the 2 carts she had were just laying around among her dolls. She failed to understand why we boys were so interested in games but she liked to play when we were around, as a social thing.
megaman never actually being popular
>Super Mario Bros didn't revolutionize 2D platformers
I've actually heard this before, the guy grew up with sega and makes it his mission to denigrate nintendo at every opportunity despite being in his 30s
It didn't that was donkey kong arcade that revolutionized 2d platformers
>western players didn't like RPGs especially on console
>nerds who bought video game magazines represent wider gaming community of the time.
For the Angry/Irate fans, if they somehow haven't seen this, or need a warm reminder of times past
Thank you for this
I don't think this one is as funny, but you might like this as well then
King's Field games. All of them are unplayable, unfun garbage. With very janky combat and movement. That only got lifted because Dark Souls lets players and essayist run out content.
people trying to apin the narrative that halo 2 was considered a disappointment or bad and the main reason they cite is le heckin cliffhanger ending
halo 2 was the biggest gaming event in history to that point and it pioneered online console gaming and mp console shooters. it was a goliath and people loved it. no one ever complaibed about the ending, if anything people said it was good and made them excited for whenever 3 came out
Halo 2 was incredible, and that's really saying something, considering the hype was everything you say it was. But the ending was absolutely an issue, and I thought it was quite disappointing. I was also not at all excited to find out that the remainder of the story was going to be pushed off to a sequel that would require purchasing an entirely new console to play. I didn't play Halo 3 until years after its release, and so I only had that weak cliffhanger to work with for a very long time.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ending.
>it ends like so abrutly, i wanted more
2 is still the longest campaign in a Bungie Halo game. The ending shot and line "Finishing this fight" is excellent written and delivered. People loved it and thus it was used in all the marketing material for 3 "Finish the Fight." Nothing about the cutscenes, writing, or progression suggesting anything but the game ending, and everyone knew there would be a Halo 3, that 2 was not the end, and that it would continue. It is not a weak cliffhanger, in fact is a very strong one.
3 came out in 2007. The notion of suddenly having to buy a new console was not there. People played Halo 2 on Xbox for over 3 years before the 360 came.
>ah they were gonna have more levels and more stuff but had to cut stuff
There hasn't been one game made in human history that did not cut things.
There is objectively absolutely nothing wrong with the end of Halo 2 and there is no valid nor sound nor convincing argument otherwise.
Bought halo 2 day 1 and it was disappointing. It's an enjoyable game but compared to what magazines were hyping up it pales in comparison.
I'm going to guess you never touched the multiplayer, which was the main attraction. That game fueled years worth of LAN parties and Xbox Live chaos.
The campaign is kind of strange because I remember being disappointed with that specific aspect myself, but having replayed all the Bungie games years later the only real competition it has is Halo 1's campaign which stretches its content too thin. It's honestly a fantastic, long campaign with an engaging story and plenty of good levels with the least recycling of any of the games. Legendary is completely absurd but a memorable and fun challenge with a friend. I have a lot to say about how shit 3's campaign is by comparison and how bad the other two Bungie games are in general but it's not retro.
You're right I never played multiplayer at the time, Halo has always been a single-player game to me. What's there is fine and I liked the arbiter but what I took away from it most was never to buy into hype and E3 demos again.
Halo 2 was big, but you're exaggerating how big it was. It was an xbox exclusive (the PC version came out around the same time as Halo 3). Xbox was huge with the college dudebro demo, but was not the biggest gaming scene.
You have no clue what you're talking about. Halo 2's launch was absolutely monolithic. It was so absurdly successful that it made more money than major blockbuster films of the time could in a single day. As far as gaming goes, there was nothing that could compare with that kind of smashing success.
I had to look up when it even came out. I don't remember it at the time and I was extremely into video games at the time. Looking at its release date, it now makes sense why it was completely invisible to me. It came out the same month as World of Warcraft and for a niche console. Probably a 100% attach rate though.
You being clueless of the world around you doesn't mean that it wasn't all over not just the gaming sphere in general, but even countless normalgay news outlets that were reporting on its hype and success. A simple google search can net you tons of articles and news recordings proving this, it was virtually impossible to ignore if you were alive in North America at the time. No, the Nintendo crowd probably wasn't dropping everything to go line up, but countless others certainly were.
The other anon hasn't learned about object permanence yet and probably has autism.
Sorry man, your dudebro dorm gaming bubble wasn't the whole world.
Yea i was a huge tendie and already a retrogay at the time and while I dont specifically remember the marketing, I definitely remember the hype from normies of the time before it came out.
All the xbox lore is just going to be buried after they axe the division as the industry accepts that nintendo baby games were all the industry could ever be and everything else gets forgotten
Its funny when euros are like NEIN AMERICAN AND JP GAMES ARE BAD WERE NEVER GOOD OR POULAR. BEST GAMES WERE MADE CHARLES WERKENSHIRE AND VUGWIG VON HITLERSTEIN ON THE BELARUSIAN GERMAN JOINTLY MADE LUFFTBOX ZX, GAMES LIKE HANSEL MAKES SCHNITZL YAH
lol
made me laugh here’s a (you)
>Kingdom Hearts came about because of a chance elevator encounter between Nomura and Disney executives
Not at all how it went down.
This is not so much revisionism but more of a surprise to me based on my personal experience growing up, but game series like Castlevania, Metroid, and Megaman were known of but no one in my social circles, school, etc ever one shit about any of them. It was all Mario, Zelda, DKC, and later on WWF games, Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Smash Bros, Banjo, Goldeneye, etc.
It wasn't til I found Ganker in like 2008 or 2009 that I saw anyone talk about those three series as being popular or well regarded. In my social spheres, they were pretty the same as those sesame street games as in, yeah they exist, those are games I guess, meh.
Yeah it all depends. My social circle was obsessed with Mega Man, and my first solo playtime on Super Metroid was via a copy I borrowed from a friend. Castlevania, on the other hand, I don't think I heard much about that series until just after middle school (I got CotM right around when the GBA came out), and then later on in highschool when I'd hear one of my SA goon friends carry on about Symphony of the Night.
Here's a helpful tip for those wondering
https://arch.b4k.co/vp/search/text/gen%202%20killed%20pokemania/
and
https://arch.b4k.co/vp/search/text/johto%20killed%20pokemania/
>[thing I don't like] is good
>[thing I like] is bad
>no one liked RPG's in the west before 5th gen
Chrono Trigger and SMRPG was at the top of lists in Nintendo Power and the to computer games were CRPG's
>[console] has no good games
This one is bullshit just about every time it comes up.
that FROMSLOP made good games; Kangs Field was horrible (and never relevant, despite what Soulsshitters would say) and Armored Core (their only relevant game) dramatically fell off after PS1 era
From did a lot of throwing shit at the wall to see what stuck. Most of it didn’t stick. But I think a lot of their games were unfairly maligned in the press back then.
Nintendo saving video games after the crash. It's a very narrow minded view that not only ignores the rest of the world still making games but assuming all that existed at the time were consoles.
>Nobody ever found Navi annoying, that's just a meme
>g-game that people thought was good... was actually LE BAD
this is such a shitbox thread
The one that always gets to me is the Wind Waker discussion
When Wind Waker was revealed, there was a sizable backlash towards the cartoon artstyle compared to the realistic rendering gamers had seen in the recent Spaceworld 2000 demo.
But the revised history claims that Wind Waker was widely dismissed at first, and that it was only in the last 10 years or so that gamers have finally been able to see past it's art style and re-discover it as a great Zelda game.
But this isn't true at all.
Despite the initial reaction to the art style on reveal, it was universally acclaimed on launch. Famitsu gave it a 40/40, it carved out a 96 on metacritic, it won GameSpot's game of the year award and won Gamefaqs' sitewide Game of the Year poll. It was the fourth best selling game on the Gamecube, selling more copies than Majora's Mask, Skyward Sword, or Link's Awakening.
I think it comes down to, Youtubers have amped up the Wind Waker controversy so much that they've gaslit a million zoomers into believing it's some kind of misunderstood hidden gem masterpiece. Plus, hardly anybody in the wider discourse actually had a Gamecube back in the day.
i think most of the people who had that reaction to Wind Waker simply did not get a gamecube, time has shown a lot of the negative attitudes towards the Gamecube around that time were from people who didn't actually own one because these days its looked back on really favorably by the people who had one, I don't think anyone who actually had a Gamecube goes "oh yeah I had jack shit to play on that thing".
Gamecube was the butt of every joke on gaming forums and on the playground back then because it was seen as "kiddy" in a time when games were desperately trying to seem mature and were still seen as kids toys by a lot of people. So people took one look at Wind Waker's artstyle and saw the children's cartoon vibe and immediately dismissed it, the people who actually played it thought it was great.
I had a Gamecube (brother bought it), and I thought it was largely pointless compared to the Xbox and PS2 I had. I did always view Nintendo as being the "kiddy" console and stocked with games that largely didn't appeal to me. The only games we had were
Resident Evil 4 (which was great, but I regretted buying it because the PS2 version had more content)
Metroid Prime 2 (also great, but it was a one-and-done game to me)
Smash Bros Melee (also great, but at LAN parties Halo 1/2 supported more players)
But even though those were really fun, I wasn't aware of other games on the console that I wanted to buy or that weren't also available on other consoles, usually in a better form. The only ones I would have reched for were Metroid Prime 1 and Windwaker, but my girlfriend had those already. So, yes, to me it was the console that felt like an afterthought in my home.
>we only bought 3 games for it and they were all great
>man what an afterthought console wish it had more games
your fault.
I pointed out that the ones I had were the ones I wanted. There weren't any other games in the store that appealed to me. Trust me, I went and looked specifically so I wouldn't feel like it was a waste of space in our home. And I also pointed out that 1 of those 3 would possibly have been better purchased on another console.
The press loves to suck off Zelda and the games always get really high reviews regardless of how good they actually are so that doesn't really say anything.
Famitsu gave MM a 37 and TP a 38, for comparison
Lol
Nintendo Power actually got letters from people on Twilight Princess' reveal that actually said "finally I can stop pretending to like Wind Waker"
That's not what that letter says at all, moron-kun
this idea that people only bought the PS2 for the DVD player
This is like half true, it wasnt ONLY for the dvd player otherwise they would have just got that but the PS2 trojan horsed its way into a lot of homes that wouldntve otherwise bought their kids a game console.
The only people who think the Gamecube was popular are zoomers who had one when they were 7 and meleegays.
>wat was pop-lar iz bestest
I mean, it definitely had a following, it was just smaller than the other two. I know it trailed behind the PS2 and the Xbox, but it wasn't some obscure cult system either.
it wasn't PS2 popular but it was still popular, it sold 22 million units. I knew a lot of people who had one. What would end up happening is only a few kids would have one and they'd be the house everyone went over to to play Mario Party, Mario Kart and Melee. N64 was the same way, N64 and Gamecube survived on the niche of being the party game consoles. Even people who didn't own a gamecube probably remember playing Melee and Double Dash when they were younger if they grew up during 6th gen for this reason.
bump
no such thing, that's merely a buzzword for people who can't understand that different opinions exist and so they have to pretend you must like or dislike X because people used to because opinions don't change or anything
but unfortunately many such people exist within this board as you can see
there's actual historical revisionism thats been posted, this is a really good example
but yeah most of this thread is exactly as you say it is
For years people talked about Sonic CD being the best classic Sonic game hidden on the Sega CD, and that the american soundtrack sucks. Also that Sonic X-Treme would have saved the Saturn
It wouldn't have caused the Saturn to magically dominate the industry, but X-treme absolutely would have resulted in more sold systems.
I played red as an adult mostly out of weebery because I knew it was a huge fad in Japan. I got the appeal but never played another one.
"Banjo-Tooie is bad" is a narrative pushed by a single anon on Ganker for so long it became the general consensus internet wide. I was there the day he started his annoying homosexual crusade.
Evidence: https://gamefaqs(dot)gamespot.com/boards/196695-banjo-tooie/43142146
it's genuinely considered controversial to consider Kazooie better 15 years ago.
Not strictly vidya related, but when people talk about the history of rpgs gamebooks and choose your own adventure books are rarely mentioned despite the fact that they were fricking everywhere in the 80s.
Pokémon's popularity declined and by 2001 the fad was dead and buried. It's popularity didn't pick up again until the DS lite . Poke gays never want to acknowledge this and act like that never happened.
It definitely declined from Pokemania levels, but "dead and buried" makes you sound like a dumbass. Even without counting the Kanto remakes because nostalgia for Pokemnia Gen 3 did huge numbers:
>R&S: 16 million sold
>Emerald: 7 million sold
Compared to the most popular FF game, the one that is currently getting remakes 20 years later:
>FFVII: 10 million sold
Can't believe that Final Fantasy's been dead and buried since the 90s.
No, it has been dead and buried since the mid 2000s. The only relevant FF games are a remake of a 30 year old game and a single player MMO where most of the content is based on even older games.
Not really the point anon. I'm saying that comparing sales between peak Final Fantasy and Pokemon in decline and calling one dead and buried is nonsense. you're right though, frick mid-2000s FF
>Bonus points if you can actually PROVE the revisionism instead of just saying that it happened.
What, you mean actual evidence is important and I can't just lie in front of a judge?
Only morons fall for obvious gaming history revisionism like the "Shigeru Miyamoto hated Donkey Kong Country" and the "Nintendo's president mocked rpg fans" crap.
>"Shigeru Miyamoto hated Donkey Kong Country"
Yeah, this is bullshit
>"Nintendo's president mocked rpg fans"
He absolutely did, and is based as frick for doing so.
>"Shigeru Miyamoto hated Donkey Kong Country"
This is true and the quote remains infallible.
or indie games like Celeste and Undertale wouldn't thrive.
> "Nintendo's president mocked rpg fans"
This is twisted up by coping N64 fatasses that didn't get RPGs that wasn't mere substitutions by opportunists.
He didn't hate JRPGs, he simply has distaste of Square-Enix's dominance to that market with all the ronery otakus behind it.