I think the difference is one of them actually became a boss and the other one was just a little b***h.
I mean Anakin's life was basically pure suffering while Arthas was a dipshit who had every chance to turn back and just kinda failed upwards because the Lich King needed a host body.
I disagree. Arthas's fall is more interesting and more understanding. It's a series of compromises for a good cause that get worse and worse.
Anakin was killing whole villages at 19 and being an butthole towards everyone and wanted to frick Natalie Portman (that's a bad thing in this context) and he only really falls to the Dark Side bc he's basically tricked into by the Emperor, like an idiot
Sure, Lucas fumbled on their portrayal too. But it's not like their dickshness contributed to Anakin's fall. He literally could've left the order at any time and suffered zero repercussions >inb4 it was totally intentional to portray the jedi as incompetent buffoons with nonsensical ethics
Come the frick on
Their overly zen approach did actually contribute to his frustrations and led him into the arms of the emperor. He voiced his fears multiple times and always received the worthless stock response of "Just don't feel emotions bro"
Besides, you'd think they would treat the supposed prophesized jedi messiah a little better overall.
>you'd think they would treat the supposed prophesized jedi messiah a little better overall.
nobody seriously believed that
3 months ago
Anonymous
What do you mean? The whole mediclorian count shit was the plot of the first movie, Qui Gon Jin fricking died over this kid lol
Either way, I think there is a lot of criticism of Anakin, or of characters in movies that are teens, when it's frankly unwarrented. Teenagers are moronic by ever measure, they do and say stupid shit. It was the job of the jedi to properly guide Anakin and they utterly failed
3 months ago
Anonymous
Qui Gon was the only one that believed it and the entire council told him it's bullshit
3 months ago
Anonymous
And unlike the turian councilor constantly hitting you with "reapers" for two games actually get their comeuppance for being morons.
>Their overly zen approach did actually contribute to his frustrations and led him into the arms of the emperor
No, their inability to solve death and the fact that Anakin is moronic led him to the arms of the Emperor
He has a vision about his wife dying and instead of going to talk with his trusted mentor and best friend, or even with her, he goes on to talk with the green goblin that runs the place and that he saw, like three times in his life. He then asks about some vague situation and gets vague responses in turn
>Sure, Lucas fumbled on their portrayal too.
I don't think he did. Its neat how the Jedi's failure directly handed the chosen one to the villains.
>Its neat how the Jedi's failure directly handed the chosen one to the villains.
Yeah, bc everyone in those movies is moronic
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Jedi council kept negging him and pushing him away from positions of power he definitely earned, considering the fact he was a famous war hero who was beloved by literally everyone in the Jedi order including all of the clones. He did more in the Clone Wars alone than someone like Ki Adi Mundi did in his entire life while having been trained in the ways of the force as a youngling. Nearly every single time Anakin has a dark side sperg out, it's because the Jedi are cucking him for no reason or he has to abide by some nonsensical rule that's going to get people killed. The only dark side sperg out that isn't justified is against Padme, and he was having a mental breakdown anyway. Not to say George Lucas was smart enough to properly portray any of this himself, but the Clone Wars series makes everything Anakin does much more understandable. He's someone who's good at what he does and wants respect and authority for his achievements.
them not going back to get his mother was pretty moronic and made no sense. apparently it's because they can't have any emotional connections or some nonsense but we see at various points in the movies that the jedi have friends and shit and Obi-wan publicly displays a wide range of emotions
3 months ago
Anonymous
>them not going back to get his mother was pretty moronic and made no sense
What part of "all attachments to your past life must be severed" do you not get. Or do you not get why they do it? Victim pretty sure they say it straight up when anakin first meets the council.
>apparently it's because they can't have any emotional connections or some nonsense
Incorrect. They are heavily discouraged as the deeper a relationship is, the more it can function as a lure for the dark side.
>we see at various points in the movies that the jedi have friends and shit and Obi-wan publicly displays a wide range of emotions
Do I need to explain the difference between being friendly and wanting to frick someone?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Do I need to explain the difference between being friendly and wanting to frick someone?
Yea. I'm friendly to all my female friends but if there was a chance, I'd frick any of them
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Yes
I'm sorry for your autism. TL;DR is that lovers have a stronger emotional attachment to each other than close friends.
well I mean why are they allowed to have any friends outside the order then? if the logic is that attachments are distracting then surely you can be distracted from your duty by your best friend who you think of like a brother. At the very least even if for some moronic reason they couldn't bring her with them to the Jedi world they could've at least gone back and got her out of being a slave and then go no-contact.
>Do I need to explain the difference between being friendly and wanting to frick someone?
did Anakin want to frick his mom or something?
>well I mean why are they allowed to have any friends outside the order then? if the logic is that attachments are distracting then surely you can be distracted from your duty by your best friend who you think of like a brother.
They're both indoctrinated with the same belief system; you're close, but you know when to draw a line.
>At the very least even if for some moronic reason they couldn't bring her with them to the Jedi world they could've at least gone back and got her out of being a slave and then go no-contact.
No, they couldn't, and no, they wouldn't.
>did Anakin want to frick his mom or something?
Freud.jpg
3 months ago
Anonymous
>TL;DR is that lovers have a stronger emotional attachment to each other than close friends.
Ask every man married for longer than 10 years how true that is. You'd be surprised.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's because very few married people, whether past or present, are or were lovers.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Now that's a shit take I've read for the first time
3 months ago
Anonymous
Black person we used to barter for women like cattle back in the good old days.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm referring to them having friends outside the order who don't have the same belief system. the jedi seemed completely fine with this for some reason. also why couldn't they go back and rescue her from slavery? qui-gon even initially tried to buy them both but couldn't because they didn't accept republic credits so clearly it wasn't totally off the table. was it really so hard for obi-wan to just exchange his republic credits somewhere for a usable currency after it was all done and go back to get her and settle her on naboo or something?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm referring to them having friends outside the order who don't have the same belief system
Misread that, why wouldn't they? If they've already undergone the training successfully, they theoretically should be able to let go of their emotions when faced with hardship (for example, said friend dying).
>qui-gon
Qui-Gon was a maverick, he's not representative of the Jedi order.
>was it really so hard for obi-wan to just exchange his republic credits somewhere for a usable currency after it was all done and go back to get her and settle her on naboo or something?
Since he's an orthodox jedi, yes.
3 months ago
Anonymous
if you trust them to let go of their emotions when faced with hardship of a friend dying why would you not trust them with other attachments? also what is unorthodox about obi-wan buying anakin's mom and settling her on a nicer planet? is helping people against the jedi code or something
3 months ago
Anonymous
>why would you not trust them with other attachments?
Because it's risk an order of magnitude greater. It's like asking why can people risk smoking weed but not heroin.
>also what is unorthodox about obi-wan buying anakin's mom and settling her on a nicer planet?
You are maintaining attachments to your old life regardless. What part of they need to be fully severed don't you get?
>is helping people against the jedi code or something
Yes, actually. Slavery doesn't violate any of the Jedi code tenants or concern the force.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>You are maintaining attachments to your old life regardless. What part of they need to be fully severed don't you get?
how is that an attachment? just don't tell Anakin where you put her
>Hey Anakin I know you're worried about your mom but we got her out of slavery and settled on a safe planet. You can't see her again but now you can focus on your Jedi training knowing she has a safe life and won't become an angst ridden edgelord with worry knowing that you left your mom as a slave to get raped by wild sandmen
there i just solved the entire plot for these morons
>Yes, actually. Slavery doesn't violate any of the Jedi code tenants or concern the force.
what? so how would obi-wan legally buying his mother and then releasing her violate the jedi orthodoxy then?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Man as someone who only watched the original star wars and never really give a shit about the rest I'm totally on Anakin's side on this one if the Jedi orders are total c**ts like you claim them to be
>B-Buh dats DUMB!!!!
Correct. What they should've done was refuse to train him, as the code stated. By bending the rules, and then refusing to budge on any others, they effectively doomed Anakin.
3 months ago
Anonymous
they also probably should have not sent the angsty teenager who they could tell had some issues on a trip alone with a sexy princess around his age if they're so concerned about their jedi being celibate. lucas kind of made the entire order moronic for the plot to work
3 months ago
Anonymous
>The order were out of touch hermits
You don't say.
3 months ago
Anonymous
there's being out of touch and there's being fricking moronic. you'd think they'd be well experienced with what to look out for in their young jedi apprentices when all the men in their order hit puberty over the thousands of years they've been doing this
3 months ago
Anonymous
Man as someone who only watched the original star wars and never really give a shit about the rest I'm totally on Anakin's side on this one if the Jedi orders are total c**ts like you claim them to be
3 months ago
Anonymous
Moralgays are ALWAYS c**ts
3 months ago
Anonymous
Its more that they kinda just don't give a shit about a ton of things, which tends to be bad when they abuse their prestige/authority to become generals and high commanders in a war
3 months ago
Anonymous
well I mean why are they allowed to have any friends outside the order then? if the logic is that attachments are distracting then surely you can be distracted from your duty by your best friend who you think of like a brother. At the very least even if for some moronic reason they couldn't bring her with them to the Jedi world they could've at least gone back and got her out of being a slave and then go no-contact.
>Do I need to explain the difference between being friendly and wanting to frick someone?
did Anakin want to frick his mom or something?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Do you not get the difference between >A friend >A close friend even
and >I am going to abandon my mission and I am prepared to throw away every tenant I was trained to uphold to save this person
3 months ago
Anonymous
my point is you can abandon your mission for a close friend just as easily so why are they allowed to have close friends. I certainly would struggle mentally with abandoning my best friend for the sake of muh mission even if I wasn't fricking him
3 months ago
Anonymous
Do you not get the difference between >A friend >A close friend even
and >I am going to abandon my mission and I am prepared to throw away every tenant I was trained to uphold to save this person
also you didn't really explain why obi-wan couldn't get anakin's mom out of slavery and just settle her on a nicer planet while still being no-contact with anakin
3 months ago
Anonymous
She was for sale, after all. And what's money to a Jedi?
3 months ago
Anonymous
She was for sale, after all. And what's money to a Jedi?
Because it is not important to them. What's Anakin's mother to the Jedi either beyond a distraction for him?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Anakin's surely going to be more distracted by his mother's fate if he knows she's still languishing on as a slave on a desert shithole than if you just tell him she's nice and settled so even helping her has a practical benefit to them aside from just not being total dicks and we're supposed to believe Obi-Wan is a decent guy
3 months ago
Anonymous
>What's Anakin's mother to the Jedi either beyond a distraction for him?
A distraction that could have been dealt with with a bit of their unlimited cash. They could afford however many million clones without batting an eyelash or noticing their pocketbook getting lighter. But they couldn't afford to lay Anakin's fears to rest by buying his mother and relocating her.
And they don't care. If Anakin is expected to become a jedi he has to dull his attachments. Those are the teachings, if he wants to be trained as a jedi he better learn to deal with it because it shouldn't matter where his mom is. >Why don't the Jedi just x
Because they are akin to buddhist monks, not galactic police.
Man as someone who only watched the original star wars and never really give a shit about the rest I'm totally on Anakin's side on this one if the Jedi orders are total c**ts like you claim them to be
This is literally the point. Anakin was groomed by Palpatine because he offered support where the Jedi didn't.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Because they are akin to buddhist monks, not galactic police
Multi million man slave army
3 months ago
Anonymous
The clones were an army for the republic, not an army for the Jedi. Circumstances of war made the jedi generals but as was very clearly shown, it was an army for the republic.
if they're just monks and not police why are they leading a fricking war effort and acting as personal security to politicians
Because the separatist movement was backed by the Sith, which they did know about because of Maul and then later Dooku.
3 months ago
Anonymous
so what? they could have just as easily fought the Sith on the battlefield without them being generals if they're just monks
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah all those times Palpatine and Dooku showed up on the battlefield.
3 months ago
Anonymous
so then why do they need the Jedi to act as generals against them then and lead the entire war effort?
3 months ago
Anonymous
What do Jedi even do when there isn't war?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Moralgay about your private business
3 months ago
Anonymous
This is honestly the most baffling thing about the prequel trilogy to me they never really explain what the frick the Jedi are. They're a monk order who are apparently keepers of the peace but what does that entail in practice? Are they like cops? We see Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan doing negotiations at the start of Ep 1 so I guess they act as Ambassadors too? But then in Ep 2 they also act as Generals leading the entire thing despite claiming in Ep 1 that they aren't military oriented.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The obvious intention was for the Jedi to be more of a scholar/religious group. Not necessarily pacifists, but also not militant.
But George Lucas fired everyone who wasn't a Yes Man so he didn't have an actual editor when drafting the prequels. Of course it doesn't make sense, it's terrible writing.
3 months ago
Anonymous
[...]
They both police and arbitrate. In police time they are basically less violent Judge Dredd with a religious twist.
How are they religious?
They are spiritual but not religious
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Jedi is a "nontheistic religious order," of which members are Knights. They dedicate their entire lives to ensuring sentients act in a way that is harmonious with the Force, so that one day when they die, they will join it in the afterlife. They are beyond being merely spiritual.
3 months ago
Anonymous
What do Jedi even do when there isn't war?
They both police and arbitrate. In police time they are basically less violent Judge Dredd with a religious twist.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Anakin was cool and based.
The jedi weren't fit for leading the war, but the Republic had no army so they had to do something. It's not handled well in the movies because the clone wars was pretty much all EU material, but there you find multiple instances of jedi fricking up incredibly hard as generals. That said, the fan favorites were obviously successful at the duty so it's not that much of a difference.
3 months ago
Anonymous
the idea that this galactic spanning governing body didn't have a military is kind of moronic tbh unless there's a good explanation for it other than "there was peace"
3 months ago
Anonymous
The reason is there was peace 🙂
Mostly because the sith were the primary instigators of war in the galaxy and with their supposed extinction, there wasn't any galactic war so no need for galactic army. The jedi were enough in this era, but this is also what made them dull and why Palpatine was able to rise up
3 months ago
Anonymous
if they're just monks and not police why are they leading a fricking war effort and acting as personal security to politicians
3 months ago
Anonymous
>What's Anakin's mother to the Jedi either beyond a distraction for him?
A distraction that could have been dealt with with a bit of their unlimited cash. They could afford however many million clones without batting an eyelash or noticing their pocketbook getting lighter. But they couldn't afford to lay Anakin's fears to rest by buying his mother and relocating her.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I certainly would struggle mentally with abandoning my best friend for the sake of muh mission even if I wasn't fricking him
gay
3 months ago
Anonymous
>my point is you can abandon your mission for a close friend just as easily
I disagree. A close friend you may be willing to bend or even break a few rules for, but a close friend isn't someone you dream and think constantly about like Anakin did for his mother and his oneitis.
3 months ago
Anonymous
but it still makes you liable to break the rules which is the whole point of the code. and if they didn't want anakin to worry about his mother maybe they could've got her out of slavery on a desert shithole. surely it would've been easier for him to let go, focus on his jedi duties and be at peace knowing she's safe and happy than worrying about her being enslaved to a flying waspman.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It’s a wonder the Jedi manage to do anything when everything is a potential path to the dark side. Might as well make them fricking robots. >dude just don’t be attached to anyone >don’t care about people dying lol >any emotion ever can lead to the dark side
3 months ago
Anonymous
Jedi, technically, supposed to go full dzen, but while being connected to the Force, reacting only to disturbances Sith and other "egoistic" things provide. As jedi are still sentient being with emotions, full symbiosys can only be reached after death a.k.a. Yoda/Obi-Wan. Experiencing emotions amd attachments create personal goals, which lead to usage of the Force in "egoistic" manner, which leads to the Force around such user to go haywire and affect user through feedback further forcing the user to go egoistic, gray-faced, power-hungry and vampiric, which keepsgoing on until user somehow is convinced to stop rotating the handle of his hate-generator.
Jedi are supposed to calm such disturbances be they natural or force user-induced (latter are more distinct). Imagine guys sitting in the calm pond when some homosexual on motorboat with dynamite starts roaming everywhere. Some will try to talk to this guy, others will went berserk, get their own motorboat and dynamite and will end up creating more ruckus than they were supposed to stop. homosexuals like Palpatine tend to pretend, that their motorboat with smoking engine is actually a floating log and try to convince morons like Anakin, that "calm" pond dwellers don't allow motorboats just because motorboat will easily outrace such dwellers rather than because it trashes the pond itself.
>Lucas fumbled on their portrayal too
During Anakin's time the jedi were in decline set apart from their spiritual roots. Only Qui Gon and Dooku knew that at the time and took issue with it. This was a completely intentional and good creative choice by Lucas as it lends more to the jedis' hypocrisy which is seen and felt by Anakin
Count Dooku tells Obi Wan that Darth Sidious is in control of everything and shit
And you know what Obi Wan says?
"Naw dawg"
The Jedi were arrogant morons
Obi Wan's greatest moment is staring down at his dying best friend and reminding him of the fake legend that everyone had been telling him about since he was like nine. >"You were the chosen one lol. Lmao. Nice job moron now you're on fire."
Obi Wan was a motherfricker for that, definitely earned the "I hate you."
3 months ago
Anonymous
He didn't say that
3 months ago
Anonymous
He did. I remember.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Obi Wan, for all he was, was also just a dude blinded by his organization
3 months ago
Anonymous
True. Lived a neo-lib hippie moron and died a neo-lib hippie moron. Did he ever say he thought what the Jedi were doing might have been wrong in any piece of recent media? Or that the Republic was corrupt and overly beurocratic? Did he ever acknowledge they did anything wrong?
to be fair, the sith have been know to be deceitful
dooku could've snitched hard on palpatine by dropping his name and obi wan wouldn't believe him
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Rule of Two was created to foster the exact situation Palpatine exploited: the Jedi being so high off their own farts they all but forgot the Sith even existed. A former Jedi Knight rebranding himself as a Sith Lord should've been a massive red flag after the whole business with Maul reminding them the Sith do, in fact, still exist. That's not a story that would've gone beyond the High Council but as the guy who slived Maul in half Obi Wan, of all people, should have figured out Maul was the apprentice and Dooku obviously couldn't have been his master.
in all fairness, would you believe a guy who betrayed your order, sure we as the audience know who palpy is, but in universe there really is no reason for obi wan to believe him
3 months ago
Anonymous
Well, he was Qui Gon Jin's master
He's worth hearing out imo
3 months ago
Anonymous
>like 10 years after you chopped a Sith in half a guy you know reasonably well starts calling himself Darth Tyranus and talking shit about the Jedi Order and the Republic
this man has nothing to tell us about anything
3 months ago
Anonymous
i mean yeah thats how it works.
sith/darksiders are all crazy morons who only care about power. dark side literally changes you as a person
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Rule of Two was created to foster the exact situation Palpatine exploited: the Jedi being so high off their own farts they all but forgot the Sith even existed. A former Jedi Knight rebranding himself as a Sith Lord should've been a massive red flag after the whole business with Maul reminding them the Sith do, in fact, still exist. That's not a story that would've gone beyond the High Council but as the guy who slived Maul in half Obi Wan, of all people, should have figured out Maul was the apprentice and Dooku obviously couldn't have been his master.
Dooku falling to the Dark Side like that should've been the moment the Jedi started taking the return of the Sith seriously.
In fact Dooku leaving the Order to become a politician in the first place was a serious issue they decided they didn't need to address.
>He literally could've left the order at any time and suffered zero repercussions >didn't understand Anakin's character
Anakin cannot just leave, he never could.
Can't the good guys just be shown in a positive light for once? What really bugs me is how they made the New Republic so incompetent/corrupt in the Mandalorian.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Can't the good guys just be shown in a positive light for once?
This kind of complaint is weak to make, both in retrospect, and due to the way in which it's worded — it's unreasonable and suicidally stupid.
Would you complain to a mouth that bites you for biting too hard when that mouth neither loves you nor has earnest love intentions, twisted though may be?
Evil intent is evil intent here, once more those who seek to destroy canons for their own questionable interpretations act to reach their goals. It has happened before, then it will die, and it will happen later too, it's a cycle thus far.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Disney portrays nightmare world. A world in which Luke did nothing to change the outcome of the new republic. Instead the world keeps humming, the republic largely unchanged from before. No synthesis, no nothing.
Jedi ideals are largely kept intact, and they are what led to the rise of Palpatine, albeit indirectly.
Ergo, the breeding ground for the Empire to come back still remains, and we see that it eventually did, stronger than ever, somehow.
Disney did this because they wanted the familiar forever war, but in the process ruined the legacy of most main characters and painted an extremely bleak picture.
Remember the ending of ep6 has hope precisely because Luke forged his own path through a son's love for the father, and managed something heroic through a genuinely selfless act of self sacrifice in the face of ultimate evil.
Disney (of course) jettisoned all of that.
[...]
[...]
[...] >ITT
You should ALL take a moment of self-awareness to appreciate you are all having open dialogue, discourse and discussion on literal 20+ year old IPs from the '70s and '90s.
You are deep in conversation about tropes and character arcs. You all have different opinions, and that's alright, the art is speaking to you.
The reason I'm telling you this is because you will never get this back for the rest of your life. Enjoy the next 80 years of coloured hair LGBTQ troony little yoda dragon DLC furry shit until the West finally collapses like Rome
Because the prequels and the stories they inspired have genuine worth as tales, and people will return to them over and over for a long time
>tricked
Seduced. There was no moment of "ah wait, what do you mean killing younglings isn't the light side of the force?". Anakin knew what he was getting himself into. He wanted power he knew was on the dark side and he made the decision to go after it. Palpatine just gave him a sliver of hope that Anakin could latch on to and manipulated him from there.
she had been grooming him since he was like 8 years old. the naboo fbi found like 8tb of shota doujins on Padme's laptop but covered it up because shes related to Biden
Arthas wanted to save his people and fell to darkness due to mind control from the Frostmourne.
Anakin the b***hboy fell to darkness out of a selfish desire to save his israeli wife and continued to be evil out of his own free will.
Arthas did some fricked up shit before Frostmourne
This.
The quotability of that speech and the shock of the slaughter after it mask what's really happening. He divides the forces of Lordaeron and disbands its most elite fighting unit because he got upstaged by that unit in the prior battle. This is the true moment Lordaeron and its forces fell, all thanks to his fragile ego.
That's not to mention the incident just a few months later where he burns his own boats so his men can't retreat and executes the mercenaries that helped him do it.
He was always a stubborn, sociopathic narcissist. Frostmourne just took away any guilt he felt for these traits.
>He divides the forces of Lordaeron and disbands its most elite fighting unit because he got upstaged by that unit in the prior battle.
No he didn't, he disbanded it because Uther was being a fricking moron and refusing to purge a city infested with the undead.
>This is the true moment Lordaeron and its forces fell, all thanks to his fragile ego.
It fell because literally no other leader would do what was necessary. And yes, the culling was necessary.
Whether the culling was necessary or not did not matter. The dissolution of his forces was a strategic victory for the Scourge.
Arthas was a tactical savant but an absolute strategic brainlet. He acted without ever thinking anything through and it fricked him over again and again throughout his story. Lordaeron needed action in that moment but not at the complete cost of level headed thought. His short sightedness delivered the kingdom right into the hands of its enemies. He was just a tool, never the craftsman.
>The dissolution of his forces was a strategic victory for the Scourge.
there is no disbanding. Arthas stripped Uther of his ranks and some of the knights left with Uther in protest. You are grasping at straws, midwit.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Ad hominem does not add any merit to your argument. Arthas "suspended [the] paladins from service," and a sizeable chunk of his army left and followed Jaina to another continent. I'm not grasping at anything, I'm holding the script of the game.
3 months ago
Anonymous
you are grasping at straw. The actual game clearly shows Arthas only stripping Uther and paladins loyal to him of their ranks, which, by the way, doesn't actually strip them of any ranks because only the king can do that. Uther and the paladins are still around by the time Arthas comes back from Northrend so they are not relieved from service at any point. He then asks anyone who disagree with the culling of the city to get out from his sight, by which point a portion of his cavalry leaves to follow Uther. The force isn't disbanded. They just leave with Uther to go fight somewhere else.
As for Jaina, she doesn't come to Kalimdor until long after Arthas has begun his invasion of Lordaeron, so Arthas "splitting" his force ar Stralhome has no bearing on that.
if you want to whine about ad hominem, you must first have an actual argument instead of pure fanfic. If you are going to argue in bad faith, you are going to be treated like the moronic Black person you are.
I think it fell because Uther was doing frick all while not explaining why he left Arthas to deal with the Undead which was a traumatizing experience he was not prepared to deal with. Uther is then in disbelief about how to deal with the situation because he doesnt understand and he does not want to understand.
The situation at Statholm is one where Arthas is making the right decisions for the wrong reasons while Uther is making wrong decisions for right reasons. Its why some of the devs are fricked in the head and think Arthas went evil at Stratholm because feminine/childish minds dont understand masculine principles of doing the right things out of logical necessity. Uther has both in his head but he lacks the experience in order to come to the proper conclusion.
Reminder that there is STILL no cure for the plague.
Reminder that Arthas saved every single person he killed in Stratholme from eternal damnation and suffering.
Yes, Stratholme was "spared" undeath, but its consequences lead to the entire rest of the kingdom's assimilation into the Scourge. It lead to the undeath of the people of Quel'Thalas as well. Two kingdoms for one city is bad math.
I'm replaying WC3 now (never played the campaign, only the multi back when I was a kid). But I just found it very weird that Arthas is technically in the right about Stratholme and Uther is moronic yet the game tries to paint Arthas in a bad light. Arthas fall into being an butthole is very weird and sudden despite the fact that for the vast majority of the human campaign he was in the right, but the game already tried to paint it as having "fell"
>Arthas fall into being an butthole is very weird and sudden despite the fact that for the vast majority of the human campaign he was in the right, but the game already tried to paint it as having "fell"
He makes a hasty decision on an extremely important matter using powers it's not quite certain he is really allowed to use, all because of his feud with Uther. The feud itself doesn't real makes sense and Arthas seems to do a strange character turn between mission 5 and 6 (although the game does take pains to foreshadow Arthas' rash and aggressive nature).
This is because it was originally written for Jaina to die, which sends Arthas over the edge. However they realised they needed Jaina for the story so they wrote it so she dies and then gets brought back to life. But then they realised that doesn't make sense either so they just got rid of the whole thing and muddles through without it. So Arthas' story becomes quite flawed in the release version and it's the reason people still argue about it today.
>killing entire city of civilians personally with demon in the end laughing at him triggering vengeance mode isn't a reason enough for madness >half-random c**t dying is
Dunno, oli have always considered hundreds of deaths of innocents brought by one's own hand against his good will out of necessity to be reason more than enough for falling. Not to mention, that in his eyes his allies look like morons, who also betray him out of their moronation.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Not to mention, that in his eyes his allies look like morons, who also betray him out of their moronation.
Perhaps they didn't want to murder hundreds of innocents and turn evil themselves
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not saying anything about their actual reasons, but how it has looked like at Arthas' opinion.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Learn to read, Arthas' change in character occurs at the end of mission 5. That's why hes so b***hy with Uther at the start of mission 6.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Has just rewatched mission 5.
Point still stands, it was deaths of innocents, them being turned into undead only to be killed by Artas himself, that has triggered his downfall, and this reason is more than enough.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Nah, his downfall was before he even killed the innocents.
>Arthas fall into being an butthole is very weird and sudden despite the fact that for the vast majority of the human campaign he was in the right, but the game already tried to paint it as having "fell"
He makes a hasty decision on an extremely important matter using powers it's not quite certain he is really allowed to use, all because of his feud with Uther. The feud itself doesn't real makes sense and Arthas seems to do a strange character turn between mission 5 and 6 (although the game does take pains to foreshadow Arthas' rash and aggressive nature).
This is because it was originally written for Jaina to die, which sends Arthas over the edge. However they realised they needed Jaina for the story so they wrote it so she dies and then gets brought back to life. But then they realised that doesn't make sense either so they just got rid of the whole thing and muddles through without it. So Arthas' story becomes quite flawed in the release version and it's the reason people still argue about it today.
He's distressed about the plague and angry with Uther for being late and having to fend for himself during the defense mission, then gets agitated by a hobo while marching to Stratholme and when he finally gets there Uther is late yet again.
On top of that he has seen what the plague does to people already. You could argue about what made him decide to immediately PURGE everyone but he was clearly unstable already.
Wrong. anakin felt more strongly about justice and universal love for all compared to any other jedi. They genuinely broke him by continuously flaunting the code, by acting like power hungry fools and by denying him the position he should've held by right.
In addition to this, they were plunging the republic into another civil war by attempting a coup, and were subverting the republic's code of law in the process.
Saving his wife is a fine goal in addition to all this. He saw what was happening to his mother and said no
It is, and Palpatine spends a LOT of time grooming anakin, and anakin STILL wants to kill him as soon as he finds out.
But by then the hooks are in too deep, all anakin can do is defer to authority, which is the council.
But once mace falls to the dark side, anakin was backed into a corner and panicked. He ended up choosing the fatherly authority of Palpatine over the council
essentially yes. if you watch some lucas interviews there are some where he talks about this and that its all essentially a pact with the devil type of thing. they even go to hell (mustafar) at the end of the movie
the real reason Anakin fell was still to save his wife. That was the one thing Palpatine used to hook him in. He didn't sell him the story of Darth homierus the Kind who brought peace to the galaxy. He sold him the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise who could stop death. Bringing peace to the galaxy is an added benefit. Saving his wife was the main course.
>yes anakin just go to the jedi council and tell them about your ILLEGAL wife and that you want to save her
theres a reason their relationship had to be kept secret
>Anakin's life was basically pure suffering
He grew up a slave but he and his mother had their own home, his boss was a dick but not overly abusive, they lived in a busy city for a junk merchant and not on a moisture farm scraping out a living in the desert. Then he got to live in an opulent temple on the richest planet in the galaxy under the guard of the most respected organisation in the galaxy.
It wasn't exactly a brilliant life but in the context of growing up on Tatooine it was a hell of a lot better than it could've been.
Arthas tried to save everyone and was seduced (and eventually effectively mind controlled) by the power which on the surface would allow him to do it.
Anakin betrayed everyone and became an actual child murderer literally because jedi council was mean to him.
what happened to this guy? I stopped watching after PC Principal appeared, and this guy was basically just the midget mobster from Looney Tunes in two or three handicapped-centered episodes.
I dont think that character has featured since the PC principle ark.
South Park stoped being stand alone episodes and the season has an over-arking large story/message. So a lot of the older characters havn't been in the show since they made this change and focus mainly on the 4 boys and Randy.
The "specials" have all been great. I think South Park has only gotten better over the years.
I think it's interesting how the humour changed. I watched some newer seasons with my gf and she liked them because a lot of the episodes have some political message. Then I went back to some older episodes and she absolutely hated those.
>killing entire city of civilians personally with demon in the end laughing at him triggering vengeance mode isn't a reason enough for madness >half-random c**t dying is
Dunno, oli have always considered hundreds of deaths of innocents brought by one's own hand against his good will out of necessity to be reason more than enough for falling. Not to mention, that in his eyes his allies look like morons, who also betray him out of their moronation.
>Two characters highlighted in their respective mediums as influental portrayals of the fallen hero archetype >Both are portrayed as moronic c**ts from the start
Holy FRICK, how do writers keep getting such a simple trope wrong? Not to mention both characters get shit ass endings, and their influence is rendered moot by EU power creeps.
Why did Luke not want to help Vader until after learning about their arbitrary genetic relation? Why did Vader suddenly redeem himself anyway? People always complain about the Ewoks but those guys were the least offensive part of this script that rushed the OT into what should have been a permanent grave.
>Why did Luke not want to help Vader until after learning about their arbitrary genetic relation?
Because he was his dad. >Why did Vader suddenly redeem himself anyway?
Because the entire reason Vader went evil was to save his wife. He then proceeded to watch as his boss started electrocuting his son to death. Keep in mind that Luke is the last remaining tie to his wife he has.
>Because he was his dad
They had never met. In the immortal words of Blue Man Group; >He may be your father, but he wasn't your daddy
This whole idea of some deeper connection between two characters who have like five minutes of screentime together across three films is just insane. He felt all this for some cyborg nazi, but not his uncle? Just makes Luke out to be a right c**t. >He then proceeded to watch as his boss started electrocuting his son to death. Keep in mind that Luke is the last remaining tie to his wife he has.
Yeah, this was approximately fifteen seconds after trying to personally murder him for the third time, and then threatening to mindrape his sister, Vader's daughter mind you, so frick that whole "last remaining tie" bullshit.
Nta but >They had never met
Magical family force magic bullshit. Don't know what to tell you here. Luke was upset by Owen and Baroo's deaths, but the movie only has so much runtime. Spending ten minutes watching him mourn them is a waste, you get that he's upset. >Yeah, this was approximately fifteen seconds after trying to personally murder him for the third time, and then threatening to mindrape his sister,
Vader probably would have done both of those things and sulked about it later in his cuck pod if Palpatine hadn't decided to fry his kid in front of him and poke at what little empathy remained in him. Vader killing Palpatine was spur of the moment, caused by him witnessing the torture of his son with fricking lightning. He basically suddenly thought >Huh. This is kinda fricked. I don't actually have to let this happen. He's my kid. Oh wait, I don't actually have to let this happen. Damn.
And through him down a hole.
You younghomosexuals don't know what it was like, walking into that theater in 1999 and seeing the Phantom Menace take a shit on your expectations.
Before the prequels happened, I was expecting Anakin Skywalker's fall to be like Apocalypse Now or something. A gritty descent into madness as a good man tried to do everything he could to win a losing war, taking on more and more extreme measures, battered mentally and spiritually by the casualties of so many good and trusted friends.
God fricking damnit, it should've been kino and instead we got fricking baby Anakin, Jar Jar poodoo fart jokes, and a fricking I HATE SAND whiny ass b***h who turned evil because he put the pussy on a pedestal.
After the tone of Return of the Jedi, you should have seen it coming. The first film had two people burned alive, the third had teddy bears and fireworks. Toy sales made George realize who his primary demographic was, children and manchildren.
I was a kid at the time. It's exactly what I wanted. I grew up watching the original trilogy, I was 13 years old when I went into the midnight showing of TPM in '99. I will never forgive him. But you're right that I should've seen it coming but eh, childish expectations.
sure I would but it was blatantly obvious Palpatine was manipulating him and Anakin is just an easily duped moron who kept following him even after he failed to deliver on his end of the bargain
Vader knew but didn't care since he had lost everything in the end. IN THE EU *pushes up glasses* he tries multiple times to kill Palpatine but never succeeds because Palpatine expects it since thsts the way of tge sith etc etc who gives a shit. In the films, you can see he's already flipping the moment he meets Luke in person.
Palpatine technically never lied to Anakin about his ability to extend life or revive people from the dead, Anakin just fricked himself up and separated himself from Padme which made the entire bargain pointless. She was dead, and nowhere he could have reached her. Anakin also seems to genuinely see The Empire as a superior alternative to The Republic. So, he sticks around to lead and to get stronger under Palpatine. The more miserable he is, the stronger he gets. So it works out for him to constantly be in physical and pain while burdened with his leadership role.
>So it works out for him to constantly be in physical and pain while burdened with his leadership role.
I always laugh my ass off at that RedLetterMedia video where they just read out lore about Darth Vader's suit and how it was just made slightly too small and tight with random noises to constantly bother and frustrate him.
Vader being in constant physical agony was always moronic but you gotta wite something on those DX picture books I guess. Him being emotionally tormented and stubborn is much better, he really could've gone back to being Anakin at any time but always chose not to on every occasion until the end of RotJ.
>Palpatine technically never lied
He tells Anakin that Darth Plagueis knew the secrets of immortality and hints that the Sith (i.e. himself) also know it but as Plagueis was his own Master, and he killed him before he actually uncovered the secret, it's a lie of omission.
This is why Anakin should've been a lot angier than he was when Palpatine finally admits "only ONE knew the thing I was promising you".
sure I would but it was blatantly obvious Palpatine was manipulating him and Anakin is just an easily duped moron who kept following him even after he failed to deliver on his end of the bargain
Why didn't he just say he did while kidnapping those kids and hiding them on another planet?
Because he was devoted even if he knew it was an evil decision.
Vader knew but didn't care since he had lost everything in the end. IN THE EU *pushes up glasses* he tries multiple times to kill Palpatine but never succeeds because Palpatine expects it since thsts the way of tge sith etc etc who gives a shit. In the films, you can see he's already flipping the moment he meets Luke in person.
Oh yeah adding on to this, I forget where it was mentioned, but Anakin already planned on betraying Palpatine after he massacred the Jedi order. It's just that Obi-Wan and Padme found him first.
A New Hope and Empire are not as gritty as you remember them being. Revenge of the Sith is the grittiest movie in the series by a very large margin.
Star Wars was literally ALWAYS childish and was designed from the ground up to be as such. In fact, part of the reason there was initial push back and skepticism to ANH being made was because it was basically a kid’s fairy tale being released in an era where films were becoming increasingly edgy.
While correct by comparison, calling pure conducts and displays as childish is questionable, nor is man prohibited from living honorably like in a fairy tale, if one wills it so.
I’m not using “childish” in a derogatory sense here.
Children are usually more pure and and innocent than adults because the world hasn’t had a chance to corrupt them into jaded adults yet.
The purity of those childhood ideas are something to be cherished. Lucas has actually said numerous times that his intent for the series was for it to have an overall optimistic tone and for it to inspire children to retain that innocence for as long as possible.
Honestly, if people can’t appreciate Star Wars for what it is, then that says more about them than it does the series (see how RedLetterMedia make being cynical and jaded their whole schtick for example).
Brother, this generation's known nothing but shitting on past glory. If anything young people are more than used to seeing good shit tarnished beyond recognition.
they are there to feed shit information to his brain directly, in other words perty was such an autist he perferred getting implants just to reduce the amount of times he had to actually interact with others
Why didn't Padmé just let the senate have its inquisition to affirm the Trade Federation's misconduct? It couldn't have taken longer than a few hours. What the frick was this b***h's problem?
Because she thought there still was some good in it.
Unfortunately she learned too late that wasn't the senate she was looking for, because all the power already was in the hands of The Senate.
>Anakin is rumoured to be the chosen one >Do literally nothing to make his integration in to your order easier such as freeing his slave mother >Surprised Pikachu face when he chimps out and joins the side that's the exact same as you except they go "Sure bro do what you frickin' want mate, you're a sick c**t."
>hey little kid who can do magic I'm going to take you away to teach you how to be a space wizard and also a knight
what about my mom >what about her lol she's gonna die a slave >we space wizard knights, who are just and fair and wise, must maintain balance or something lmao
yeah it's a fricken mysterious mystery as to why he turned on the jedi order
he turned because he couldn't let her go among other things. even if she didn't die he would've found some other reason to fall.
this is just how the force works in the setting and thats why some would argue its evil
Kreia was just a cranky old b***h who wanted her biggest mistakes fixed and the people she hated most dead, anything she has to say about the nature of the Force or its manipulations are window dressing to her personal agenda
but she's not the only one that seems to think this. theres that other jedi master who almost comes to the same conclusion if i remember correctly. you might argue the first part of the sentence but to dismiss everything she has to say outright is a bit much. especially when you don't point out the thing she is wrong about
>space juice for some reason do not accept currency of the biggest galactic state >biggest spaceport on the planet has no currency exchange or Quigon is too stupid to even look for it
>alright let's just trade in the royal ship for something much better suited to our mission >yes we can be off this planet in a matter of hours and on with the important business of trying to save Naboo from occupation
Written and Directed by George Lucas
i feel like almost all confusion about anakin and jedi in the prequels stems from the refusal to accept how the force works in star wars. its all just >yeah but what if anakin just didn't fall tho? have you thought about that hmm? >humor me and think what would happen if anakin just did things a little differently without fundamentally changing his ways >lucas is such a moron ammirite?
the last one isn't even all that far off but man
reminder that "how the force works" in star wars was established in the OT when ghost of kenobi and yoda both insist vader has to die because he is irredeemable and then luke not listening to them allows him to redeem himself at the last moment
sure
the part about attachements leading people astray is still consistent between the ot and prequels. luke himself even has a little dark side moment when vader starts talking about leia during their fight. the only thing that stops him is him realizing that he is going down the same path as his father
so you admit introspection and choice play a larger part in determining a persons fate than the mysterious will of the force
if luke can do it in the spur of the moment just seconds from giving in to his anger like palpatine wants then surely anakin could have used some of that patented jedi meditation time to meditate on how being a jedi is the cause of all his frustration
>anakin could have used some of that patented jedi meditation time to meditate on how being a jedi is the cause of all his frustration
Anakin spent his entire post-slave childhood being told that he is "the child of prophecy", the "one who will bring balance to the force" and other ego-fueling bullshit. It's actually a wonder he didn't outright become a complete dick about it. But you kind of see his mask cracking when he is faced with the smallest amount of conflict.
>Wow this kid has huge midichlorians, maybe he's the chosen one, let me train him >frick off quigon he's too old to train we have that rule for a reason
choice is important yes but anakin also made a choice. he wanted to save his wife so he decided to go with palpatine. he went "i will join the dark side to save my wife". if he listened to yoda and "let go of everything you fear losing" he wouldn't have to make that choice.
if we are going to question this that far why not do the same for dooku? or anyone else that ever fell to the dark side? if luke could do it then other jedi surely can do as well.
so you admit introspection and choice play a larger part in determining a persons fate than the mysterious will of the force
if luke can do it in the spur of the moment just seconds from giving in to his anger like palpatine wants then surely anakin could have used some of that patented jedi meditation time to meditate on how being a jedi is the cause of all his frustration
Luke is Luke, their personalities differ. Anakin was much more brash, and was groomed by a galactic scale master manipulator since his childhood.
[...]
Luke is Luke, their personalities differ. Anakin was much more brash, and was groomed by a galactic scale master manipulator since his childhood.
Because she thought there still was some good in it.
Unfortunately she learned too late that wasn't the senate she was looking for, because all the power already was in the hands of The Senate.
so you admit introspection and choice play a larger part in determining a persons fate than the mysterious will of the force
if luke can do it in the spur of the moment just seconds from giving in to his anger like palpatine wants then surely anakin could have used some of that patented jedi meditation time to meditate on how being a jedi is the cause of all his frustration
>ITT
You should ALL take a moment of self-awareness to appreciate you are all having open dialogue, discourse and discussion on literal 20+ year old IPs from the '70s and '90s.
You are deep in conversation about tropes and character arcs. You all have different opinions, and that's alright, the art is speaking to you.
The reason I'm telling you this is because you will never get this back for the rest of your life. Enjoy the next 80 years of coloured hair LGBTQ troony little yoda dragon DLC furry shit until the West finally collapses like Rome
>Luke. I... am your mother. >No, that's not true, that's impossible! >Look into your id card, you know it to be true >NOOOOOOOOO! You'll never be a real woman!
>Star Wars >when the Millenium Falcon lands on the Death Star it contains Darth Vader's former Jedi mentor, Obi Wan Kenobi >Star Wars: A New Hope (Post Prequels) >when the Millenium Falcon lands on the Death Star it contains Darth Vader's former Jedi mentor, his son, his daughter, his old astromech droid and his own personal protocol droid he built for his mother >as a bonus, the co-pilot is one of the wookies who helped Master Yoda escape the Purge >SW ANH (Post Prequel, including EU) >Vader had also personally tracked down and tried to kill Han Solo for deserting from the Imperial Navy before the film started
>I am better than (You)
Black person, you're posting tough guy bravado on Ganker, out of all places. If you were better than anyone here, you would actually be doing something with your life instead of posting vaxx wojaks here.
Actually lmaoning at ur life, i bet you can't even bench press 30 kilos. Pussy.
I hate lore (post summoners removal) and visual reworks in LoL in general and arcanification of Jimx so much. At release she was a cuhrayzee insane pew-pew boom-boom intense character full of drive and fun, and that homosexualry of a series has suddenly turned her into "tragic misunderstood teen with PTSD". Literally Borderlands 2/3 tier character assassination.
All true.
Arcane was kino, but my biggest fear is they milk the tragedy trope with too many of their champs.
I love a good tragedy, but to chose that path is a gamble for a writer.
A tragedy walks a very, very fine line between kino and cringe, so you have to deliver for it to be worth it.
I think im on the video game discussion board.
we should be discussing video games and the playing of them, not about how obi wan got fricked by 12 dicks or whatever the frick
>They arent forced to write them as a bunch of emotionally weak pussies. No one´s stopping them from making cool new characters
Lol. Say that to the nuWoW.
I dunno if seifer really counts. his chunni dreams of being a sorceress knight went up in smoke around the time eda reveals she's being possed by someone else the whole time and he just kind of decides to help ultimecia destroy the world out of pure spite and bullheadedness that surely the path he didn't pick was wrong & he needs squall and gilgamesh to beat his ass a few more times for it to sink in
Author being a b***hass nip nong Black person and not following through on the themes of his story at the final 1/10th stretch.
Excruciatingly common in manga. Feels like psychological self sabotage. They see something in themselves they do not like, try to paper it over, nervously laughing, coping.
Its despicable weakness in a creator, to disown your own works.
Fallen knight
Fall from Grace, see: Paradise Lost
Kino
Underrated comment
Tragic Hero
Macbeth
I think the difference is one of them actually became a boss and the other one was just a little b***h.
I mean Anakin's life was basically pure suffering while Arthas was a dipshit who had every chance to turn back and just kinda failed upwards because the Lich King needed a host body.
Protagonist Journey to Villain
I disagree. Arthas's fall is more interesting and more understanding. It's a series of compromises for a good cause that get worse and worse.
Anakin was killing whole villages at 19 and being an butthole towards everyone and wanted to frick Natalie Portman (that's a bad thing in this context) and he only really falls to the Dark Side bc he's basically tricked into by the Emperor, like an idiot
To be fair, the jedi at the time were c**ts too
Sure, Lucas fumbled on their portrayal too. But it's not like their dickshness contributed to Anakin's fall. He literally could've left the order at any time and suffered zero repercussions
>inb4 it was totally intentional to portray the jedi as incompetent buffoons with nonsensical ethics
Come the frick on
Their overly zen approach did actually contribute to his frustrations and led him into the arms of the emperor. He voiced his fears multiple times and always received the worthless stock response of "Just don't feel emotions bro"
Besides, you'd think they would treat the supposed prophesized jedi messiah a little better overall.
>you'd think they would treat the supposed prophesized jedi messiah a little better overall.
nobody seriously believed that
What do you mean? The whole mediclorian count shit was the plot of the first movie, Qui Gon Jin fricking died over this kid lol
Either way, I think there is a lot of criticism of Anakin, or of characters in movies that are teens, when it's frankly unwarrented. Teenagers are moronic by ever measure, they do and say stupid shit. It was the job of the jedi to properly guide Anakin and they utterly failed
Qui Gon was the only one that believed it and the entire council told him it's bullshit
And unlike the turian councilor constantly hitting you with "reapers" for two games actually get their comeuppance for being morons.
>Their overly zen approach did actually contribute to his frustrations and led him into the arms of the emperor
No, their inability to solve death and the fact that Anakin is moronic led him to the arms of the Emperor
He has a vision about his wife dying and instead of going to talk with his trusted mentor and best friend, or even with her, he goes on to talk with the green goblin that runs the place and that he saw, like three times in his life. He then asks about some vague situation and gets vague responses in turn
>Its neat how the Jedi's failure directly handed the chosen one to the villains.
Yeah, bc everyone in those movies is moronic
The Jedi council kept negging him and pushing him away from positions of power he definitely earned, considering the fact he was a famous war hero who was beloved by literally everyone in the Jedi order including all of the clones. He did more in the Clone Wars alone than someone like Ki Adi Mundi did in his entire life while having been trained in the ways of the force as a youngling. Nearly every single time Anakin has a dark side sperg out, it's because the Jedi are cucking him for no reason or he has to abide by some nonsensical rule that's going to get people killed. The only dark side sperg out that isn't justified is against Padme, and he was having a mental breakdown anyway. Not to say George Lucas was smart enough to properly portray any of this himself, but the Clone Wars series makes everything Anakin does much more understandable. He's someone who's good at what he does and wants respect and authority for his achievements.
>Sure, Lucas fumbled on their portrayal too.
I don't think he did. Its neat how the Jedi's failure directly handed the chosen one to the villains.
>jedi as incompetent buffoons with nonsensical ethics
What part(s) did you find nonsensical?
them not going back to get his mother was pretty moronic and made no sense. apparently it's because they can't have any emotional connections or some nonsense but we see at various points in the movies that the jedi have friends and shit and Obi-wan publicly displays a wide range of emotions
>them not going back to get his mother was pretty moronic and made no sense
What part of "all attachments to your past life must be severed" do you not get. Or do you not get why they do it? Victim pretty sure they say it straight up when anakin first meets the council.
>apparently it's because they can't have any emotional connections or some nonsense
Incorrect. They are heavily discouraged as the deeper a relationship is, the more it can function as a lure for the dark side.
>we see at various points in the movies that the jedi have friends and shit and Obi-wan publicly displays a wide range of emotions
Do I need to explain the difference between being friendly and wanting to frick someone?
>Do I need to explain the difference between being friendly and wanting to frick someone?
Yea. I'm friendly to all my female friends but if there was a chance, I'd frick any of them
>Yes
I'm sorry for your autism. TL;DR is that lovers have a stronger emotional attachment to each other than close friends.
>well I mean why are they allowed to have any friends outside the order then? if the logic is that attachments are distracting then surely you can be distracted from your duty by your best friend who you think of like a brother.
They're both indoctrinated with the same belief system; you're close, but you know when to draw a line.
>At the very least even if for some moronic reason they couldn't bring her with them to the Jedi world they could've at least gone back and got her out of being a slave and then go no-contact.
No, they couldn't, and no, they wouldn't.
>did Anakin want to frick his mom or something?
Freud.jpg
>TL;DR is that lovers have a stronger emotional attachment to each other than close friends.
Ask every man married for longer than 10 years how true that is. You'd be surprised.
That's because very few married people, whether past or present, are or were lovers.
Now that's a shit take I've read for the first time
Black person we used to barter for women like cattle back in the good old days.
I'm referring to them having friends outside the order who don't have the same belief system. the jedi seemed completely fine with this for some reason. also why couldn't they go back and rescue her from slavery? qui-gon even initially tried to buy them both but couldn't because they didn't accept republic credits so clearly it wasn't totally off the table. was it really so hard for obi-wan to just exchange his republic credits somewhere for a usable currency after it was all done and go back to get her and settle her on naboo or something?
>I'm referring to them having friends outside the order who don't have the same belief system
Misread that, why wouldn't they? If they've already undergone the training successfully, they theoretically should be able to let go of their emotions when faced with hardship (for example, said friend dying).
>qui-gon
Qui-Gon was a maverick, he's not representative of the Jedi order.
>was it really so hard for obi-wan to just exchange his republic credits somewhere for a usable currency after it was all done and go back to get her and settle her on naboo or something?
Since he's an orthodox jedi, yes.
if you trust them to let go of their emotions when faced with hardship of a friend dying why would you not trust them with other attachments? also what is unorthodox about obi-wan buying anakin's mom and settling her on a nicer planet? is helping people against the jedi code or something
>why would you not trust them with other attachments?
Because it's risk an order of magnitude greater. It's like asking why can people risk smoking weed but not heroin.
>also what is unorthodox about obi-wan buying anakin's mom and settling her on a nicer planet?
You are maintaining attachments to your old life regardless. What part of they need to be fully severed don't you get?
>is helping people against the jedi code or something
Yes, actually. Slavery doesn't violate any of the Jedi code tenants or concern the force.
>You are maintaining attachments to your old life regardless. What part of they need to be fully severed don't you get?
how is that an attachment? just don't tell Anakin where you put her
>Hey Anakin I know you're worried about your mom but we got her out of slavery and settled on a safe planet. You can't see her again but now you can focus on your Jedi training knowing she has a safe life and won't become an angst ridden edgelord with worry knowing that you left your mom as a slave to get raped by wild sandmen
there i just solved the entire plot for these morons
>Yes, actually. Slavery doesn't violate any of the Jedi code tenants or concern the force.
what? so how would obi-wan legally buying his mother and then releasing her violate the jedi orthodoxy then?
>B-Buh dats DUMB!!!!
Correct. What they should've done was refuse to train him, as the code stated. By bending the rules, and then refusing to budge on any others, they effectively doomed Anakin.
they also probably should have not sent the angsty teenager who they could tell had some issues on a trip alone with a sexy princess around his age if they're so concerned about their jedi being celibate. lucas kind of made the entire order moronic for the plot to work
>The order were out of touch hermits
You don't say.
there's being out of touch and there's being fricking moronic. you'd think they'd be well experienced with what to look out for in their young jedi apprentices when all the men in their order hit puberty over the thousands of years they've been doing this
Man as someone who only watched the original star wars and never really give a shit about the rest I'm totally on Anakin's side on this one if the Jedi orders are total c**ts like you claim them to be
Moralgays are ALWAYS c**ts
Its more that they kinda just don't give a shit about a ton of things, which tends to be bad when they abuse their prestige/authority to become generals and high commanders in a war
well I mean why are they allowed to have any friends outside the order then? if the logic is that attachments are distracting then surely you can be distracted from your duty by your best friend who you think of like a brother. At the very least even if for some moronic reason they couldn't bring her with them to the Jedi world they could've at least gone back and got her out of being a slave and then go no-contact.
>Do I need to explain the difference between being friendly and wanting to frick someone?
did Anakin want to frick his mom or something?
Do you not get the difference between
>A friend
>A close friend even
and
>I am going to abandon my mission and I am prepared to throw away every tenant I was trained to uphold to save this person
my point is you can abandon your mission for a close friend just as easily so why are they allowed to have close friends. I certainly would struggle mentally with abandoning my best friend for the sake of muh mission even if I wasn't fricking him
also you didn't really explain why obi-wan couldn't get anakin's mom out of slavery and just settle her on a nicer planet while still being no-contact with anakin
She was for sale, after all. And what's money to a Jedi?
Because it is not important to them. What's Anakin's mother to the Jedi either beyond a distraction for him?
Anakin's surely going to be more distracted by his mother's fate if he knows she's still languishing on as a slave on a desert shithole than if you just tell him she's nice and settled so even helping her has a practical benefit to them aside from just not being total dicks and we're supposed to believe Obi-Wan is a decent guy
And they don't care. If Anakin is expected to become a jedi he has to dull his attachments. Those are the teachings, if he wants to be trained as a jedi he better learn to deal with it because it shouldn't matter where his mom is.
>Why don't the Jedi just x
Because they are akin to buddhist monks, not galactic police.
This is literally the point. Anakin was groomed by Palpatine because he offered support where the Jedi didn't.
>Because they are akin to buddhist monks, not galactic police
Multi million man slave army
The clones were an army for the republic, not an army for the Jedi. Circumstances of war made the jedi generals but as was very clearly shown, it was an army for the republic.
Because the separatist movement was backed by the Sith, which they did know about because of Maul and then later Dooku.
so what? they could have just as easily fought the Sith on the battlefield without them being generals if they're just monks
Yeah all those times Palpatine and Dooku showed up on the battlefield.
so then why do they need the Jedi to act as generals against them then and lead the entire war effort?
What do Jedi even do when there isn't war?
Moralgay about your private business
This is honestly the most baffling thing about the prequel trilogy to me they never really explain what the frick the Jedi are. They're a monk order who are apparently keepers of the peace but what does that entail in practice? Are they like cops? We see Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan doing negotiations at the start of Ep 1 so I guess they act as Ambassadors too? But then in Ep 2 they also act as Generals leading the entire thing despite claiming in Ep 1 that they aren't military oriented.
The obvious intention was for the Jedi to be more of a scholar/religious group. Not necessarily pacifists, but also not militant.
But George Lucas fired everyone who wasn't a Yes Man so he didn't have an actual editor when drafting the prequels. Of course it doesn't make sense, it's terrible writing.
How are they religious?
They are spiritual but not religious
The Jedi is a "nontheistic religious order," of which members are Knights. They dedicate their entire lives to ensuring sentients act in a way that is harmonious with the Force, so that one day when they die, they will join it in the afterlife. They are beyond being merely spiritual.
They both police and arbitrate. In police time they are basically less violent Judge Dredd with a religious twist.
Anakin was cool and based.
The jedi weren't fit for leading the war, but the Republic had no army so they had to do something. It's not handled well in the movies because the clone wars was pretty much all EU material, but there you find multiple instances of jedi fricking up incredibly hard as generals. That said, the fan favorites were obviously successful at the duty so it's not that much of a difference.
the idea that this galactic spanning governing body didn't have a military is kind of moronic tbh unless there's a good explanation for it other than "there was peace"
The reason is there was peace 🙂
Mostly because the sith were the primary instigators of war in the galaxy and with their supposed extinction, there wasn't any galactic war so no need for galactic army. The jedi were enough in this era, but this is also what made them dull and why Palpatine was able to rise up
if they're just monks and not police why are they leading a fricking war effort and acting as personal security to politicians
>What's Anakin's mother to the Jedi either beyond a distraction for him?
A distraction that could have been dealt with with a bit of their unlimited cash. They could afford however many million clones without batting an eyelash or noticing their pocketbook getting lighter. But they couldn't afford to lay Anakin's fears to rest by buying his mother and relocating her.
>I certainly would struggle mentally with abandoning my best friend for the sake of muh mission even if I wasn't fricking him
gay
>my point is you can abandon your mission for a close friend just as easily
I disagree. A close friend you may be willing to bend or even break a few rules for, but a close friend isn't someone you dream and think constantly about like Anakin did for his mother and his oneitis.
but it still makes you liable to break the rules which is the whole point of the code. and if they didn't want anakin to worry about his mother maybe they could've got her out of slavery on a desert shithole. surely it would've been easier for him to let go, focus on his jedi duties and be at peace knowing she's safe and happy than worrying about her being enslaved to a flying waspman.
It’s a wonder the Jedi manage to do anything when everything is a potential path to the dark side. Might as well make them fricking robots.
>dude just don’t be attached to anyone
>don’t care about people dying lol
>any emotion ever can lead to the dark side
Jedi, technically, supposed to go full dzen, but while being connected to the Force, reacting only to disturbances Sith and other "egoistic" things provide. As jedi are still sentient being with emotions, full symbiosys can only be reached after death a.k.a. Yoda/Obi-Wan. Experiencing emotions amd attachments create personal goals, which lead to usage of the Force in "egoistic" manner, which leads to the Force around such user to go haywire and affect user through feedback further forcing the user to go egoistic, gray-faced, power-hungry and vampiric, which keepsgoing on until user somehow is convinced to stop rotating the handle of his hate-generator.
Jedi are supposed to calm such disturbances be they natural or force user-induced (latter are more distinct). Imagine guys sitting in the calm pond when some homosexual on motorboat with dynamite starts roaming everywhere. Some will try to talk to this guy, others will went berserk, get their own motorboat and dynamite and will end up creating more ruckus than they were supposed to stop. homosexuals like Palpatine tend to pretend, that their motorboat with smoking engine is actually a floating log and try to convince morons like Anakin, that "calm" pond dwellers don't allow motorboats just because motorboat will easily outrace such dwellers rather than because it trashes the pond itself.
>Lucas fumbled on their portrayal too
During Anakin's time the jedi were in decline set apart from their spiritual roots. Only Qui Gon and Dooku knew that at the time and took issue with it. This was a completely intentional and good creative choice by Lucas as it lends more to the jedis' hypocrisy which is seen and felt by Anakin
Count Dooku tells Obi Wan that Darth Sidious is in control of everything and shit
And you know what Obi Wan says?
"Naw dawg"
The Jedi were arrogant morons
Obi Wan's greatest moment is staring down at his dying best friend and reminding him of the fake legend that everyone had been telling him about since he was like nine.
>"You were the chosen one lol. Lmao. Nice job moron now you're on fire."
Obi Wan was a motherfricker for that, definitely earned the "I hate you."
He didn't say that
He did. I remember.
Obi Wan, for all he was, was also just a dude blinded by his organization
True. Lived a neo-lib hippie moron and died a neo-lib hippie moron. Did he ever say he thought what the Jedi were doing might have been wrong in any piece of recent media? Or that the Republic was corrupt and overly beurocratic? Did he ever acknowledge they did anything wrong?
Should've estimated his power properly
Just chuck him into the lava you moron.
to be fair, the sith have been know to be deceitful
dooku could've snitched hard on palpatine by dropping his name and obi wan wouldn't believe him
The Rule of Two was created to foster the exact situation Palpatine exploited: the Jedi being so high off their own farts they all but forgot the Sith even existed. A former Jedi Knight rebranding himself as a Sith Lord should've been a massive red flag after the whole business with Maul reminding them the Sith do, in fact, still exist. That's not a story that would've gone beyond the High Council but as the guy who slived Maul in half Obi Wan, of all people, should have figured out Maul was the apprentice and Dooku obviously couldn't have been his master.
in all fairness, would you believe a guy who betrayed your order, sure we as the audience know who palpy is, but in universe there really is no reason for obi wan to believe him
Well, he was Qui Gon Jin's master
He's worth hearing out imo
>like 10 years after you chopped a Sith in half a guy you know reasonably well starts calling himself Darth Tyranus and talking shit about the Jedi Order and the Republic
this man has nothing to tell us about anything
i mean yeah thats how it works.
sith/darksiders are all crazy morons who only care about power. dark side literally changes you as a person
Dooku falling to the Dark Side like that should've been the moment the Jedi started taking the return of the Sith seriously.
In fact Dooku leaving the Order to become a politician in the first place was a serious issue they decided they didn't need to address.
>He literally could've left the order at any time and suffered zero repercussions
>didn't understand Anakin's character
Anakin cannot just leave, he never could.
>NOOO THE JEDI CAN’T BE PORTRAYED AS A FLAWED ORGANIZATION. THEY HAVE TO BE PERFECT MARY SUES LIKE IN MY HEADCANON
People with this mindset are why Star Wars is shit now.
>People with this mindset are why Star Wars is shit now.
No, they are not.
Can't the good guys just be shown in a positive light for once? What really bugs me is how they made the New Republic so incompetent/corrupt in the Mandalorian.
>Can't the good guys just be shown in a positive light for once?
This kind of complaint is weak to make, both in retrospect, and due to the way in which it's worded — it's unreasonable and suicidally stupid.
Would you complain to a mouth that bites you for biting too hard when that mouth neither loves you nor has earnest love intentions, twisted though may be?
Evil intent is evil intent here, once more those who seek to destroy canons for their own questionable interpretations act to reach their goals. It has happened before, then it will die, and it will happen later too, it's a cycle thus far.
Disney portrays nightmare world. A world in which Luke did nothing to change the outcome of the new republic. Instead the world keeps humming, the republic largely unchanged from before. No synthesis, no nothing.
Jedi ideals are largely kept intact, and they are what led to the rise of Palpatine, albeit indirectly.
Ergo, the breeding ground for the Empire to come back still remains, and we see that it eventually did, stronger than ever, somehow.
Disney did this because they wanted the familiar forever war, but in the process ruined the legacy of most main characters and painted an extremely bleak picture.
Remember the ending of ep6 has hope precisely because Luke forged his own path through a son's love for the father, and managed something heroic through a genuinely selfless act of self sacrifice in the face of ultimate evil.
Disney (of course) jettisoned all of that.
Because the prequels and the stories they inspired have genuine worth as tales, and people will return to them over and over for a long time
>tricked
Seduced. There was no moment of "ah wait, what do you mean killing younglings isn't the light side of the force?". Anakin knew what he was getting himself into. He wanted power he knew was on the dark side and he made the decision to go after it. Palpatine just gave him a sliver of hope that Anakin could latch on to and manipulated him from there.
she had been grooming him since he was like 8 years old. the naboo fbi found like 8tb of shota doujins on Padme's laptop but covered it up because shes related to Biden
i chuckled
>Anakin was killing whole villages at 19
So just like Arthas then?
Arthas wanted to save his people and fell to darkness due to mind control from the Frostmourne.
Anakin the b***hboy fell to darkness out of a selfish desire to save his israeli wife and continued to be evil out of his own free will.
Arthas did some fricked up shit before Frostmourne
>these peopleroni have all been infectedanana
This.
The quotability of that speech and the shock of the slaughter after it mask what's really happening. He divides the forces of Lordaeron and disbands its most elite fighting unit because he got upstaged by that unit in the prior battle. This is the true moment Lordaeron and its forces fell, all thanks to his fragile ego.
That's not to mention the incident just a few months later where he burns his own boats so his men can't retreat and executes the mercenaries that helped him do it.
He was always a stubborn, sociopathic narcissist. Frostmourne just took away any guilt he felt for these traits.
>He divides the forces of Lordaeron and disbands its most elite fighting unit because he got upstaged by that unit in the prior battle.
No he didn't, he disbanded it because Uther was being a fricking moron and refusing to purge a city infested with the undead.
>This is the true moment Lordaeron and its forces fell, all thanks to his fragile ego.
It fell because literally no other leader would do what was necessary. And yes, the culling was necessary.
Whether the culling was necessary or not did not matter. The dissolution of his forces was a strategic victory for the Scourge.
Arthas was a tactical savant but an absolute strategic brainlet. He acted without ever thinking anything through and it fricked him over again and again throughout his story. Lordaeron needed action in that moment but not at the complete cost of level headed thought. His short sightedness delivered the kingdom right into the hands of its enemies. He was just a tool, never the craftsman.
>The dissolution of his forces was a strategic victory for the Scourge.
there is no disbanding. Arthas stripped Uther of his ranks and some of the knights left with Uther in protest. You are grasping at straws, midwit.
Ad hominem does not add any merit to your argument. Arthas "suspended [the] paladins from service," and a sizeable chunk of his army left and followed Jaina to another continent. I'm not grasping at anything, I'm holding the script of the game.
you are grasping at straw. The actual game clearly shows Arthas only stripping Uther and paladins loyal to him of their ranks, which, by the way, doesn't actually strip them of any ranks because only the king can do that. Uther and the paladins are still around by the time Arthas comes back from Northrend so they are not relieved from service at any point. He then asks anyone who disagree with the culling of the city to get out from his sight, by which point a portion of his cavalry leaves to follow Uther. The force isn't disbanded. They just leave with Uther to go fight somewhere else.
As for Jaina, she doesn't come to Kalimdor until long after Arthas has begun his invasion of Lordaeron, so Arthas "splitting" his force ar Stralhome has no bearing on that.
if you want to whine about ad hominem, you must first have an actual argument instead of pure fanfic. If you are going to argue in bad faith, you are going to be treated like the moronic Black person you are.
I think it fell because Uther was doing frick all while not explaining why he left Arthas to deal with the Undead which was a traumatizing experience he was not prepared to deal with. Uther is then in disbelief about how to deal with the situation because he doesnt understand and he does not want to understand.
The situation at Statholm is one where Arthas is making the right decisions for the wrong reasons while Uther is making wrong decisions for right reasons. Its why some of the devs are fricked in the head and think Arthas went evil at Stratholm because feminine/childish minds dont understand masculine principles of doing the right things out of logical necessity. Uther has both in his head but he lacks the experience in order to come to the proper conclusion.
Reminder that there is STILL no cure for the plague.
Reminder that Arthas saved every single person he killed in Stratholme from eternal damnation and suffering.
Yes, Stratholme was "spared" undeath, but its consequences lead to the entire rest of the kingdom's assimilation into the Scourge. It lead to the undeath of the people of Quel'Thalas as well. Two kingdoms for one city is bad math.
I'm replaying WC3 now (never played the campaign, only the multi back when I was a kid). But I just found it very weird that Arthas is technically in the right about Stratholme and Uther is moronic yet the game tries to paint Arthas in a bad light. Arthas fall into being an butthole is very weird and sudden despite the fact that for the vast majority of the human campaign he was in the right, but the game already tried to paint it as having "fell"
>Arthas fall into being an butthole is very weird and sudden despite the fact that for the vast majority of the human campaign he was in the right, but the game already tried to paint it as having "fell"
He makes a hasty decision on an extremely important matter using powers it's not quite certain he is really allowed to use, all because of his feud with Uther. The feud itself doesn't real makes sense and Arthas seems to do a strange character turn between mission 5 and 6 (although the game does take pains to foreshadow Arthas' rash and aggressive nature).
This is because it was originally written for Jaina to die, which sends Arthas over the edge. However they realised they needed Jaina for the story so they wrote it so she dies and then gets brought back to life. But then they realised that doesn't make sense either so they just got rid of the whole thing and muddles through without it. So Arthas' story becomes quite flawed in the release version and it's the reason people still argue about it today.
>killing entire city of civilians personally with demon in the end laughing at him triggering vengeance mode isn't a reason enough for madness
>half-random c**t dying is
Dunno, oli have always considered hundreds of deaths of innocents brought by one's own hand against his good will out of necessity to be reason more than enough for falling. Not to mention, that in his eyes his allies look like morons, who also betray him out of their moronation.
>Not to mention, that in his eyes his allies look like morons, who also betray him out of their moronation.
Perhaps they didn't want to murder hundreds of innocents and turn evil themselves
I'm not saying anything about their actual reasons, but how it has looked like at Arthas' opinion.
Learn to read, Arthas' change in character occurs at the end of mission 5. That's why hes so b***hy with Uther at the start of mission 6.
Has just rewatched mission 5.
Point still stands, it was deaths of innocents, them being turned into undead only to be killed by Artas himself, that has triggered his downfall, and this reason is more than enough.
Nah, his downfall was before he even killed the innocents.
He's distressed about the plague and angry with Uther for being late and having to fend for himself during the defense mission, then gets agitated by a hobo while marching to Stratholme and when he finally gets there Uther is late yet again.
On top of that he has seen what the plague does to people already. You could argue about what made him decide to immediately PURGE everyone but he was clearly unstable already.
Wrong. anakin felt more strongly about justice and universal love for all compared to any other jedi. They genuinely broke him by continuously flaunting the code, by acting like power hungry fools and by denying him the position he should've held by right.
In addition to this, they were plunging the republic into another civil war by attempting a coup, and were subverting the republic's code of law in the process.
Saving his wife is a fine goal in addition to all this. He saw what was happening to his mother and said no
OK, I get it, but Palpatine is basically Satan in Star Wars and Anakin seriously done goofed by not killing him on the spot.
It is, and Palpatine spends a LOT of time grooming anakin, and anakin STILL wants to kill him as soon as he finds out.
But by then the hooks are in too deep, all anakin can do is defer to authority, which is the council.
But once mace falls to the dark side, anakin was backed into a corner and panicked. He ended up choosing the fatherly authority of Palpatine over the council
essentially yes. if you watch some lucas interviews there are some where he talks about this and that its all essentially a pact with the devil type of thing. they even go to hell (mustafar) at the end of the movie
>They genuinely broke him by continuously flaunting the code
After Ahsoka's "trial" i was curious how literally anyone took council's shit seriously.
the real reason Anakin fell was still to save his wife. That was the one thing Palpatine used to hook him in. He didn't sell him the story of Darth homierus the Kind who brought peace to the galaxy. He sold him the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise who could stop death. Bringing peace to the galaxy is an added benefit. Saving his wife was the main course.
If only jedi council knew anything about force healing...
some gay shit added in EU, not Lucas' original vision.
Ah yes, his 'original vision' of derivative metaphysics.
>yes anakin just go to the jedi council and tell them about your ILLEGAL wife and that you want to save her
theres a reason their relationship had to be kept secret
literally black knight or fallen knight
yes but anakin was more unlikable because literally all he ever did was b***h like a woman
>Anakin's life was basically pure suffering
He grew up a slave but he and his mother had their own home, his boss was a dick but not overly abusive, they lived in a busy city for a junk merchant and not on a moisture farm scraping out a living in the desert. Then he got to live in an opulent temple on the richest planet in the galaxy under the guard of the most respected organisation in the galaxy.
It wasn't exactly a brilliant life but in the context of growing up on Tatooine it was a hell of a lot better than it could've been.
He was a slave and child soldier
>child soldier
im pretty sure he liked being a soldier
That's part of the problem
Dude had to watch Watto go balls deep in his mother every single night.
Arthas tried to save everyone and was seduced (and eventually effectively mind controlled) by the power which on the surface would allow him to do it.
Anakin betrayed everyone and became an actual child murderer literally because jedi council was mean to him.
They are both little b***hes
Anakin is a fricking simp that fell in to the dark side for a little pussy.
Evil white man.
Hitler
Who had the best written fall from grace?
Oersted
what happened to this guy? I stopped watching after PC Principal appeared, and this guy was basically just the midget mobster from Looney Tunes in two or three handicapped-centered episodes.
I dont think that character has featured since the PC principle ark.
South Park stoped being stand alone episodes and the season has an over-arking large story/message. So a lot of the older characters havn't been in the show since they made this change and focus mainly on the 4 boys and Randy.
The "specials" have all been great. I think South Park has only gotten better over the years.
I think it's interesting how the humour changed. I watched some newer seasons with my gf and she liked them because a lot of the episodes have some political message. Then I went back to some older episodes and she absolutely hated those.
>I have always considered
Sorry, had a stroke.
Frick, meant as a fix to
Don't mind me.
The moron
>Two characters highlighted in their respective mediums as influental portrayals of the fallen hero archetype
>Both are portrayed as moronic c**ts from the start
Holy FRICK, how do writers keep getting such a simple trope wrong? Not to mention both characters get shit ass endings, and their influence is rendered moot by EU power creeps.
Arthas' good deeds were punished and it made him resentful
Fallen/Dark Knight.
Tragic hero
Peak.
What an absolute illiterate moronic homosexual you must be to make this thread
What a seething troony Black person you must be to have posted that cringe
But enough about you OP
>I can fix him
There is still good in him. I can fix him.
Why did Luke not want to help Vader until after learning about their arbitrary genetic relation? Why did Vader suddenly redeem himself anyway? People always complain about the Ewoks but those guys were the least offensive part of this script that rushed the OT into what should have been a permanent grave.
>Why did Luke not want to help Vader until after learning about their arbitrary genetic relation?
Because he was his dad.
>Why did Vader suddenly redeem himself anyway?
Because the entire reason Vader went evil was to save his wife. He then proceeded to watch as his boss started electrocuting his son to death. Keep in mind that Luke is the last remaining tie to his wife he has.
>Because he was his dad
They had never met. In the immortal words of Blue Man Group;
>He may be your father, but he wasn't your daddy
This whole idea of some deeper connection between two characters who have like five minutes of screentime together across three films is just insane. He felt all this for some cyborg nazi, but not his uncle? Just makes Luke out to be a right c**t.
>He then proceeded to watch as his boss started electrocuting his son to death. Keep in mind that Luke is the last remaining tie to his wife he has.
Yeah, this was approximately fifteen seconds after trying to personally murder him for the third time, and then threatening to mindrape his sister, Vader's daughter mind you, so frick that whole "last remaining tie" bullshit.
Nta but
>They had never met
Magical family force magic bullshit. Don't know what to tell you here. Luke was upset by Owen and Baroo's deaths, but the movie only has so much runtime. Spending ten minutes watching him mourn them is a waste, you get that he's upset.
>Yeah, this was approximately fifteen seconds after trying to personally murder him for the third time, and then threatening to mindrape his sister,
Vader probably would have done both of those things and sulked about it later in his cuck pod if Palpatine hadn't decided to fry his kid in front of him and poke at what little empathy remained in him. Vader killing Palpatine was spur of the moment, caused by him witnessing the torture of his son with fricking lightning. He basically suddenly thought
>Huh. This is kinda fricked. I don't actually have to let this happen. He's my kid. Oh wait, I don't actually have to let this happen. Damn.
And through him down a hole.
Im sorry your dad was an butthole
Kino
Reminder if you think Arthas did nothing wrong you are a psychopath who needs psychiatric help
Reminder that you are a moron
I don't agree with him dumb dumb I'm just posting his absolutely moronic take facetiously.
I won't give you any clicks. Advertising is a bannable offense.
lord byron
A fool hero and his happiness are soon departed
byronic
dark homie
You younghomosexuals don't know what it was like, walking into that theater in 1999 and seeing the Phantom Menace take a shit on your expectations.
Before the prequels happened, I was expecting Anakin Skywalker's fall to be like Apocalypse Now or something. A gritty descent into madness as a good man tried to do everything he could to win a losing war, taking on more and more extreme measures, battered mentally and spiritually by the casualties of so many good and trusted friends.
God fricking damnit, it should've been kino and instead we got fricking baby Anakin, Jar Jar poodoo fart jokes, and a fricking I HATE SAND whiny ass b***h who turned evil because he put the pussy on a pedestal.
You underestimate my power.
After the tone of Return of the Jedi, you should have seen it coming. The first film had two people burned alive, the third had teddy bears and fireworks. Toy sales made George realize who his primary demographic was, children and manchildren.
Kids would eat the edgier shit up, though.
I was a kid at the time. It's exactly what I wanted. I grew up watching the original trilogy, I was 13 years old when I went into the midnight showing of TPM in '99. I will never forgive him. But you're right that I should've seen it coming but eh, childish expectations.
I'm not a man child, frick you.
>he wouldn't kill a bunch of kids to save his wife
NGMI
sure I would but it was blatantly obvious Palpatine was manipulating him and Anakin is just an easily duped moron who kept following him even after he failed to deliver on his end of the bargain
Vader knew but didn't care since he had lost everything in the end. IN THE EU *pushes up glasses* he tries multiple times to kill Palpatine but never succeeds because Palpatine expects it since thsts the way of tge sith etc etc who gives a shit. In the films, you can see he's already flipping the moment he meets Luke in person.
Palpatine technically never lied to Anakin about his ability to extend life or revive people from the dead, Anakin just fricked himself up and separated himself from Padme which made the entire bargain pointless. She was dead, and nowhere he could have reached her. Anakin also seems to genuinely see The Empire as a superior alternative to The Republic. So, he sticks around to lead and to get stronger under Palpatine. The more miserable he is, the stronger he gets. So it works out for him to constantly be in physical and pain while burdened with his leadership role.
>So it works out for him to constantly be in physical and pain while burdened with his leadership role.
I always laugh my ass off at that RedLetterMedia video where they just read out lore about Darth Vader's suit and how it was just made slightly too small and tight with random noises to constantly bother and frustrate him.
>it was just made slightly too small and tight with random noises to constantly bother and frustrate him
I thought its not canon anymore.
anything past the original trilogy and even parts of ROTJ were a huge mistake
My favorite Star Wars lore.
I hope it's still canon it's funny as frick
Vader being in constant physical agony was always moronic but you gotta wite something on those DX picture books I guess. Him being emotionally tormented and stubborn is much better, he really could've gone back to being Anakin at any time but always chose not to on every occasion until the end of RotJ.
>Palpatine technically never lied
He tells Anakin that Darth Plagueis knew the secrets of immortality and hints that the Sith (i.e. himself) also know it but as Plagueis was his own Master, and he killed him before he actually uncovered the secret, it's a lie of omission.
This is why Anakin should've been a lot angier than he was when Palpatine finally admits "only ONE knew the thing I was promising you".
Why didn't he just say he did while kidnapping those kids and hiding them on another planet?
Because he was devoted even if he knew it was an evil decision.
Oh yeah adding on to this, I forget where it was mentioned, but Anakin already planned on betraying Palpatine after he massacred the Jedi order. It's just that Obi-Wan and Padme found him first.
A New Hope and Empire are not as gritty as you remember them being. Revenge of the Sith is the grittiest movie in the series by a very large margin.
Star Wars was literally ALWAYS childish and was designed from the ground up to be as such. In fact, part of the reason there was initial push back and skepticism to ANH being made was because it was basically a kid’s fairy tale being released in an era where films were becoming increasingly edgy.
While correct by comparison, calling pure conducts and displays as childish is questionable, nor is man prohibited from living honorably like in a fairy tale, if one wills it so.
I’m not using “childish” in a derogatory sense here.
Children are usually more pure and and innocent than adults because the world hasn’t had a chance to corrupt them into jaded adults yet.
The purity of those childhood ideas are something to be cherished. Lucas has actually said numerous times that his intent for the series was for it to have an overall optimistic tone and for it to inspire children to retain that innocence for as long as possible.
Honestly, if people can’t appreciate Star Wars for what it is, then that says more about them than it does the series (see how RedLetterMedia make being cynical and jaded their whole schtick for example).
Brother, this generation's known nothing but shitting on past glory. If anything young people are more than used to seeing good shit tarnished beyond recognition.
The literally me
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two members of the “did nothing wrong” group
Personally, "fallen prince", also involves "path to hell is paved with good intentions".
Was there ever any explanation as to why Peter Turbo has a shitload of tubes
they are there to feed shit information to his brain directly, in other words perty was such an autist he perferred getting implants just to reduce the amount of times he had to actually interact with others
Is this the same trope?
No, because this b***h prostitute is lame and deserved what she got
Why didn't Padmé just let the senate have its inquisition to affirm the Trade Federation's misconduct? It couldn't have taken longer than a few hours. What the frick was this b***h's problem?
Cause Senate was corrupt and gave 0 shits about regular citizens of the Republic. Just like jedis.
They were offering it right then and there. If she knew the senate was corrupt by that point, why seek aid from them at all?
>If she knew the senate was corrupt by that point, why seek aid from them at all?
Cause padme were anakin-level stupid.
>If she knew the senate was corrupt by that point, why seek aid from them at all?
Women.
Because she thought there still was some good in it.
Unfortunately she learned too late that wasn't the senate she was looking for, because all the power already was in the hands of The Senate.
>Anakin is rumoured to be the chosen one
>Do literally nothing to make his integration in to your order easier such as freeing his slave mother
>Surprised Pikachu face when he chimps out and joins the side that's the exact same as you except they go "Sure bro do what you frickin' want mate, you're a sick c**t."
Why did Anakin kill those younglings again?
Palpatine told him to so he could save his wife and baby. He was basically insane by that point.
Because everyone forgets he already killed tusken kids a few years back. Padme doesn't even care when he tells her.
to be angry is to be human
>posts chinese arthas
gay
the villain's journey
Kinography.
I want to see it more often.
>Kinography
Is that a word?
It's a Ganker shitpost, it's not something Ganker would teach you
What does it mean, my friend?
It means to lurk moar
Pulling a Mordred
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackKnight
does he fit the same mold?
>hey little kid who can do magic I'm going to take you away to teach you how to be a space wizard and also a knight
what about my mom
>what about her lol she's gonna die a slave
>we space wizard knights, who are just and fair and wise, must maintain balance or something lmao
yeah it's a fricken mysterious mystery as to why he turned on the jedi order
he turned because he couldn't let her go among other things. even if she didn't die he would've found some other reason to fall.
this is just how the force works in the setting and thats why some would argue its evil
Kreia was just a cranky old b***h who wanted her biggest mistakes fixed and the people she hated most dead, anything she has to say about the nature of the Force or its manipulations are window dressing to her personal agenda
but she's not the only one that seems to think this. theres that other jedi master who almost comes to the same conclusion if i remember correctly. you might argue the first part of the sentence but to dismiss everything she has to say outright is a bit much. especially when you don't point out the thing she is wrong about
>space juice for some reason do not accept currency of the biggest galactic state
>biggest spaceport on the planet has no currency exchange or Quigon is too stupid to even look for it
Some dead end used car dealer in Tunisia is unlikely to accept US currency, even though it's as close to the world's universal currency.
>alright let's just trade in the royal ship for something much better suited to our mission
>yes we can be off this planet in a matter of hours and on with the important business of trying to save Naboo from occupation
Written and Directed by George Lucas
Ludo
Growing old enough to undestand importance of wearing helmet.
They're literally me.
would you?
No. All the aliens from star wars that aren't just humans with a different skin color are ugly including the tagruta and twiileks
Dindu nothing wrong
Kino
i feel like almost all confusion about anakin and jedi in the prequels stems from the refusal to accept how the force works in star wars. its all just
>yeah but what if anakin just didn't fall tho? have you thought about that hmm?
>humor me and think what would happen if anakin just did things a little differently without fundamentally changing his ways
>lucas is such a moron ammirite?
the last one isn't even all that far off but man
reminder that "how the force works" in star wars was established in the OT when ghost of kenobi and yoda both insist vader has to die because he is irredeemable and then luke not listening to them allows him to redeem himself at the last moment
sure
the part about attachements leading people astray is still consistent between the ot and prequels. luke himself even has a little dark side moment when vader starts talking about leia during their fight. the only thing that stops him is him realizing that he is going down the same path as his father
so you admit introspection and choice play a larger part in determining a persons fate than the mysterious will of the force
if luke can do it in the spur of the moment just seconds from giving in to his anger like palpatine wants then surely anakin could have used some of that patented jedi meditation time to meditate on how being a jedi is the cause of all his frustration
>anakin could have used some of that patented jedi meditation time to meditate on how being a jedi is the cause of all his frustration
Anakin spent his entire post-slave childhood being told that he is "the child of prophecy", the "one who will bring balance to the force" and other ego-fueling bullshit. It's actually a wonder he didn't outright become a complete dick about it. But you kind of see his mask cracking when he is faced with the smallest amount of conflict.
Have anyone actually routinely told him that he's the chosen one all the time?
Such ego-stroking isn't the Jedi way.
If anything, Anakin comes as humble. His issue is that he's not a proper Jedi. He cares much about people, and cannot be idle.
The prequels were never consistent on that.
>Wow this kid has huge midichlorians, maybe he's the chosen one, let me train him
>frick off quigon he's too old to train we have that rule for a reason
choice is important yes but anakin also made a choice. he wanted to save his wife so he decided to go with palpatine. he went "i will join the dark side to save my wife". if he listened to yoda and "let go of everything you fear losing" he wouldn't have to make that choice.
if we are going to question this that far why not do the same for dooku? or anyone else that ever fell to the dark side? if luke could do it then other jedi surely can do as well.
Luke is Luke, their personalities differ. Anakin was much more brash, and was groomed by a galactic scale master manipulator since his childhood.
Anakin didn't restore the balance. Not all Jedi and Sith were exterminated.
Corruption, Blizzard used to have a shitton of characters like that
>Medieval knight turns into science fantasy fencer
>Frozen full plate cavalier turns into space sorcerer
No idea
The Feanor
>good intentions
>fricked up execution
Vader shouldn't have been Luke's father.
>ITT
You should ALL take a moment of self-awareness to appreciate you are all having open dialogue, discourse and discussion on literal 20+ year old IPs from the '70s and '90s.
You are deep in conversation about tropes and character arcs. You all have different opinions, and that's alright, the art is speaking to you.
The reason I'm telling you this is because you will never get this back for the rest of your life. Enjoy the next 80 years of coloured hair LGBTQ troony little yoda dragon DLC furry shit until the West finally collapses like Rome
Wrong. Deep storytelling and tragic edge have returned after 20 years.
>20+
47 years
>Luke. I... am your mother.
>No, that's not true, that's impossible!
>Look into your id card, you know it to be true
>NOOOOOOOOO! You'll never be a real woman!
>Star Wars
>when the Millenium Falcon lands on the Death Star it contains Darth Vader's former Jedi mentor, Obi Wan Kenobi
>Star Wars: A New Hope (Post Prequels)
>when the Millenium Falcon lands on the Death Star it contains Darth Vader's former Jedi mentor, his son, his daughter, his old astromech droid and his own personal protocol droid he built for his mother
>as a bonus, the co-pilot is one of the wookies who helped Master Yoda escape the Purge
>SW ANH (Post Prequel, including EU)
>Vader had also personally tracked down and tried to kill Han Solo for deserting from the Imperial Navy before the film started
Stranger coincidences have occurred in real life
Pottery
Revenge of the Sith is actual, unironic kino.
What's the top from again
Never took a closer look, but I really like it's expression
Which wookiepedia article is this?
What do you call this trope?
Excellent work ethics?
Rad scientist
Male daddy issues
kino
Fricking Blizzard and their comically oversized shoulderguards
Pauldrons are cool.
>I am better than (You)
Black person, you're posting tough guy bravado on Ganker, out of all places. If you were better than anyone here, you would actually be doing something with your life instead of posting vaxx wojaks here.
Actually lmaoning at ur life, i bet you can't even bench press 30 kilos. Pussy.
i don't listen to non-white opinions.
go listen to your rap elsewhere.
Tragedy.
The Tragic Hero/Villain
I hate lore (post summoners removal) and visual reworks in LoL in general and arcanification of Jimx so much. At release she was a cuhrayzee insane pew-pew boom-boom intense character full of drive and fun, and that homosexualry of a series has suddenly turned her into "tragic misunderstood teen with PTSD". Literally Borderlands 2/3 tier character assassination.
you're so cool for being the opposite of everyone else.
All true.
Arcane was kino, but my biggest fear is they milk the tragedy trope with too many of their champs.
I love a good tragedy, but to chose that path is a gamble for a writer.
A tragedy walks a very, very fine line between kino and cringe, so you have to deliver for it to be worth it.
aren't gamelore and arcanelore different and seperate?
>aren't gamelore and arcanelore different and seperate?
Not anymore
they are, that other anon is a moron
i hate people who discuss lore.
the whole concept makes me fricking cringe
I think im on the video game discussion board.
we should be discussing video games and the playing of them, not about how obi wan got fricked by 12 dicks or whatever the frick
>Ganker
>discussing video games and the playing of them
lol
lmao
>What do you call this trope?
It's not a trope.
Left is a "fallen from grace", right is "rectonned into a shitty brat"
>muh Darth vader was badass
Idiot frickin moron
Tragic figure like 5000 or more years older than you
Tragic Hero
>Arthas fell before pumping babies into her
>we could have had a 10/10 daughter of them in her prime right now
We´ve been robbed
>he wants "new generation" characters
Enjoy your weak whiny homosexuals.
They arent forced to write them as a bunch of emotionally weak pussies. No one´s stopping them from making cool new characters
>They arent forced to write them as a bunch of emotionally weak pussies. No one´s stopping them from making cool new characters
Lol. Say that to the nuWoW.
Arth Vader
Kino
Any example of the reverse happening?
FF IV kind of?
Aribeth from Neverwinter Nights.
>slowly driven to madness
>falls
>but you can save her!
>expansion lets you save her for real
Happens a frickton in RPGs.
Name one, then.
>turns on his friends over his childhood fantasy
>ends up spearheading the world's most advanced army
>eventually realizes he was being moronic
I dunno if seifer really counts. his chunni dreams of being a sorceress knight went up in smoke around the time eda reveals she's being possed by someone else the whole time and he just kind of decides to help ultimecia destroy the world out of pure spite and bullheadedness that surely the path he didn't pick was wrong & he needs squall and gilgamesh to beat his ass a few more times for it to sink in
What do you call this trope?
Author being a b***hass nip nong Black person and not following through on the themes of his story at the final 1/10th stretch.
Excruciatingly common in manga. Feels like psychological self sabotage. They see something in themselves they do not like, try to paper it over, nervously laughing, coping.
Its despicable weakness in a creator, to disown your own works.
Being a fricking loser