Ew, as a Xenoblade X megafan I don't want to see Elma/Alma associating with your shitty protagonist Rex, go back to your isekai harem and stay there. It's time for mecha alien slaying kino...
I like Abyss. I don't believe it's deep. I just like the fact the characters aren't one note and they don't pull the "I'm a completely different person now in under a week" bullshit games pull for character development. Luke's still a spoiled high standing douche. He's just trying to no be so much of a douche anymore instead of suddenly being the next Jesus Christ because he realizes being mean is bad.
This pic reeks of "I didn't understand any of these games, expressed my shit opinion online, and an anon condescendingly explained why I was wrong."
They don't have to be deep for you to be a moron.
TWEWY, P3, and Abyss’s messages aren’t particularly deep but what makes them good is how they go about in embodying those messages. Good storytelling is about the insight you can provide through character dialogue, action, psychological reflection, and theming. Even if your themes are easy to understand, if they are layered in a way that the insight is still meaningful, you've got an impactful product. To me, good writing boils down to one thing: insight. Insight governs everything when you're writing anything. Insight dictates how deep themes are or how deep a character is. Sure you can write ABOUT deep themes, but if the author has no real insight into those themes or how to explore their layers, then the story fails to be interesting once you actually think about it. You can make your story seem superficially deep by writing ABOUT themes that tend to grip people's attention (and sometimes that illusion ends up working on people) but it means more when you can explore those themes with experience, with intelligence, with knowledge, and express how those themes affect a character’s disposition on life, their multitude of personality traits, and their emotional state at any given time, which is exactly what those games do.
I think what also makes TWEWY good (and those goes for both games) is that like any well-written teenage bildungsroman, it’s able to look past the bullshit teenagers project about themselves/others and call them out on it while at the same, being completely understanding towards them. Teenagers in games tend to be incredibly annoying and difficult to withstand for a lot of players out there since teenagers, like you and me probably were/are at some point, are often incredibly annoying, hormonal balls of angst. TWEWY never lets these traits hang, and is always extremely critical of the characters, rather than just implying that they suck, and makes the characters come across as kids going through that awkward phase in their lives.
The other half is that the games are also aware that these characters are human, and these traits don’t just pop up out of nowhere. Neku is dealing with survivor’s guilt concerning the death of his best friend and feels overwhelmed by the world. Shiki is completely lost in who she wants to be and what to do, hence her imposter syndrome and self-esteem issues. Beat is terrified that his tough guy attitude will hurt the people he cares about but doesn’t know any other way to be, which he hates himself for. Rindo is deathly afraid of taking responsibility for potentially life-changing decisions and tries to avoid it by clinging onto others for guidance, hence why he lashes out whenever people try to force those choices onto him. Fret has PTSD over his best friend’s suicide and is trying to hide his true feelings out of fear of getting hurt again, hence his overly enthusiastic behavior and seemingly carefree attitude. And then there’s everything surrounding Shoka.
When these characters act obnoxious, weird, etc, there’s always a reason/understandable way to trace these behaviors. It wants the characters (and by extension, you) to grow past their flaws and allows them to be flawed but nonetheless likable characters.
There’s a subsection of folks who conflate a simplistic narrative with easy to understand messages with a bad one while disregarding everything in the finer details such as establishing meaningful causality in the writing choices you make and knowing how to write strong cause and effect relationships between actions and outcomes in a story and it pisses me off to no end. It’s why stories like DMC3 and 5’s will always be more interesting to dig deep into for me compared to stories such as DmC, Code Geass, or Tales of Arise’s despite the latter three touching on more complex topics due to the former two actually meaningfully utilizing cause and effect.
DMC3 is unironically a subtle game in spite of its high-octane gameplay/setpieces because the game will reveal oodles of backstory and characterization in just a few sparse lines but because a lot of people just look at the spectacle, they refuse to engage with the subtext, which is part of why people just wrote it off as nothing but schlock the first few years before recently.
One thing I really appreciate is how the game makes it clear that Vergil is only after power because of what happened to his mother, but he never says this once in the story. >Vergil lectures Dante that without power, he can't protect anyone >Dante never mentioned protecting anyone, and wasn't protecting anyone >when Vergil gets Dante's half of their mother's amulet, he holds up to his forehead while closing his eyes, clearly reminiscing on better times >When Arkham is ranting about the power of evil and the temen-ni-gru's revival, Vergil just keeps staring down at the destroyed city and gets more annoyed >then tells Arkham to stop talking and that "that is none of my concern" >his intro of the story in DMC3SE, where he gets pissed at Arkham for mentioning his mother and straight up pulls his Yamato out at him >when receiving the final blow in his fight against Dante and dropping both Force Edge and the amulet, the first thing he immediately reaches for is his mother’s amulet instead of the sword, despite his claims of wanting power
This. While the TWEWY games have themes that can be easy to sum up, it uses its worldbuilding to explore the bureaucratic structure of the Higher Plane/Reaper hierarchy and the psychological/sociobehavioral effects it has on people, which is what makes it interesting to dig deep into.
No one is saying that TWEWY is too deep 4 u, just that you have to be an actual moron to not get what it’s saying. Which evidently describes a lot of Ganker posters these days.
>Characters having motives and the plot meaning something beyond its surface value means its "2deep4u" garbage and I say that because I'm too stupid to understand it otherwise
You fricking people
at the bottom, what is the touhou game called and on which playstation console is it ?
also from the bottom, top left, the Nintendo one and the welfare one, what are they called ? i wanna check them out but can't make out the titles
I believe that one is genius of sappheiros. Its basically a SaGa clone (or so i've been told, never played SaGa).
Afaik, its not on play Station, it just looks like it because of the Growlanser 4 cover which has the "psp, only on playstation" bar.
But that's 4 games
shh, he's moronic he doesn't know better
Stay seething BG3 troon
No one thinks any of these are deep what in the ever loving frick are you talking about
you've clearly never talked to a weeb before
every other animu artstyle game ever made and like 97.6% of the source animu while you're at it.
persona 5, earthbound
Deus ex, if you had the balls
Alpha Centauri
Planescape Torment
Max Payne 3
and what games are deeper than Planescape: Torment and Morrowind?
Subnautica
Frog Fractions
Not him but exactly is Morrowind "deep?"
It’s an epic, not some twisting tale with profound messages.
None because games can't be deep
deus ex, planescape torment, fallout new vegas, morrowind
Your favorite, as it clearly belongs here.
XC1 isn't very deep.
You're thinking of XC2.
Xenoblade 2 will always be the laughing stock of the trilogy. Time to accept it and move on.
>t. didn't played/understood the game.
XC2coomers as delusional as always
Nah, Xenosaga deserves it the most.
>XC1 isn't very deep
That's OP's point, brainlet-kun
Ew, as a Xenoblade X megafan I don't want to see Elma/Alma associating with your shitty protagonist Rex, go back to your isekai harem and stay there. It's time for mecha alien slaying kino...
Silence XB2 homosexual. I love to coom as much as the next guy. But XB2 is the worst game in the Xeno series, yes even Xenosaga 2
I honestly see Xb1 and 2 as one game resetera secondaries not allowed
>Secondary
homosexual I played XenoGEARS. I actually played it after Saga.
But the point stands, XB2 is awful
Planescape Torment
Fallout: New Vegas
TWEWY isn't deep but it's message is good.
Palworld
this would have been mine
>my 13 yo self was deeper than your
I enjoy games more now than I did at 13. My 13 year old self was deeper.
The holy trinity of "I am almost 30 and get mad about people liking things on an anonymous image board"
I like Abyss. I don't believe it's deep. I just like the fact the characters aren't one note and they don't pull the "I'm a completely different person now in under a week" bullshit games pull for character development. Luke's still a spoiled high standing douche. He's just trying to no be so much of a douche anymore instead of suddenly being the next Jesus Christ because he realizes being mean is bad.
This pic reeks of "I didn't understand any of these games, expressed my shit opinion online, and an anon condescendingly explained why I was wrong."
They don't have to be deep for you to be a moron.
Xenogears deserves to be up there more than XB1. Frick it, put the entire franchise up. That would be accurate enough.
I'm 30 and found those games writing impressive. I unironically never matured past 13
Tales of the Abyss is pure kino
Fire Emblem Awakening
Anyone who was actually 13 when these came out is like 35 now
every mother game
No 13-year-old appreciates Mother 1.
You need to be at least 25.
2 & 3? Absolutely.
mgs2
What games do 13 years olds play nowadays anyway?
Considering how many unironic pedos are on this board, I expect some of you to know the answer.
fortnite, rocket league, roblox
None of them are playing any of the games in the OP, those require basic reading comprehension and the youth of today is too lazy to read
What's funny is all of these fanbases hate each other on Ganker and constantly try to knock the other games down a peg and prop up their own.
Where exactly do you see TWEWY fans hating on Abyss and vice-versa?
In his head.
>game has a really basic "try to enjoy life and make friends" message
>UGHHHHHH HOW PRETENTIOUS, IT TRIES TO BE DEEP SO HARD
they aren't interested, ignore troll posts
>try to enjoy life and make friends
if thats what you took away from TWEWY you really need to go back and replay it without tiktok open on the side.
needs like 10 pics of evangelion
TWEWY, P3, and Abyss’s messages aren’t particularly deep but what makes them good is how they go about in embodying those messages. Good storytelling is about the insight you can provide through character dialogue, action, psychological reflection, and theming. Even if your themes are easy to understand, if they are layered in a way that the insight is still meaningful, you've got an impactful product. To me, good writing boils down to one thing: insight. Insight governs everything when you're writing anything. Insight dictates how deep themes are or how deep a character is. Sure you can write ABOUT deep themes, but if the author has no real insight into those themes or how to explore their layers, then the story fails to be interesting once you actually think about it. You can make your story seem superficially deep by writing ABOUT themes that tend to grip people's attention (and sometimes that illusion ends up working on people) but it means more when you can explore those themes with experience, with intelligence, with knowledge, and express how those themes affect a character’s disposition on life, their multitude of personality traits, and their emotional state at any given time, which is exactly what those games do.
These are a lot of words to say that you were 13 and you thought it was deep.
>literally speedreading a Ganker post
>shit poster has the attention span of a 13 year old.
Checks out.
but he didn't say nor imply that moron.
I think what also makes TWEWY good (and those goes for both games) is that like any well-written teenage bildungsroman, it’s able to look past the bullshit teenagers project about themselves/others and call them out on it while at the same, being completely understanding towards them. Teenagers in games tend to be incredibly annoying and difficult to withstand for a lot of players out there since teenagers, like you and me probably were/are at some point, are often incredibly annoying, hormonal balls of angst. TWEWY never lets these traits hang, and is always extremely critical of the characters, rather than just implying that they suck, and makes the characters come across as kids going through that awkward phase in their lives.
The other half is that the games are also aware that these characters are human, and these traits don’t just pop up out of nowhere. Neku is dealing with survivor’s guilt concerning the death of his best friend and feels overwhelmed by the world. Shiki is completely lost in who she wants to be and what to do, hence her imposter syndrome and self-esteem issues. Beat is terrified that his tough guy attitude will hurt the people he cares about but doesn’t know any other way to be, which he hates himself for. Rindo is deathly afraid of taking responsibility for potentially life-changing decisions and tries to avoid it by clinging onto others for guidance, hence why he lashes out whenever people try to force those choices onto him. Fret has PTSD over his best friend’s suicide and is trying to hide his true feelings out of fear of getting hurt again, hence his overly enthusiastic behavior and seemingly carefree attitude. And then there’s everything surrounding Shoka.
When these characters act obnoxious, weird, etc, there’s always a reason/understandable way to trace these behaviors. It wants the characters (and by extension, you) to grow past their flaws and allows them to be flawed but nonetheless likable characters.
Based but this is Ganker so some moron will probably misinterpret-
Lmao
There’s a subsection of folks who conflate a simplistic narrative with easy to understand messages with a bad one while disregarding everything in the finer details such as establishing meaningful causality in the writing choices you make and knowing how to write strong cause and effect relationships between actions and outcomes in a story and it pisses me off to no end. It’s why stories like DMC3 and 5’s will always be more interesting to dig deep into for me compared to stories such as DmC, Code Geass, or Tales of Arise’s despite the latter three touching on more complex topics due to the former two actually meaningfully utilizing cause and effect.
DMC3 is unironically a subtle game in spite of its high-octane gameplay/setpieces because the game will reveal oodles of backstory and characterization in just a few sparse lines but because a lot of people just look at the spectacle, they refuse to engage with the subtext, which is part of why people just wrote it off as nothing but schlock the first few years before recently.
One thing I really appreciate is how the game makes it clear that Vergil is only after power because of what happened to his mother, but he never says this once in the story.
>Vergil lectures Dante that without power, he can't protect anyone
>Dante never mentioned protecting anyone, and wasn't protecting anyone
>when Vergil gets Dante's half of their mother's amulet, he holds up to his forehead while closing his eyes, clearly reminiscing on better times
>When Arkham is ranting about the power of evil and the temen-ni-gru's revival, Vergil just keeps staring down at the destroyed city and gets more annoyed
>then tells Arkham to stop talking and that "that is none of my concern"
>his intro of the story in DMC3SE, where he gets pissed at Arkham for mentioning his mother and straight up pulls his Yamato out at him
>when receiving the final blow in his fight against Dante and dropping both Force Edge and the amulet, the first thing he immediately reaches for is his mother’s amulet instead of the sword, despite his claims of wanting power
This. While the TWEWY games have themes that can be easy to sum up, it uses its worldbuilding to explore the bureaucratic structure of the Higher Plane/Reaper hierarchy and the psychological/sociobehavioral effects it has on people, which is what makes it interesting to dig deep into.
I don’t quite get what you mean by insight.
Just the difference between a surface level instance and one where it’s sufficiently justified/developed?
Pretty much, yeah.
I KNOW YOU!
He’s right, you know.
Fire Emblem Three Houses
I've never heard/read anything profound in my entire life
same
Final Fantasy gaygits
Wrong pic. The right one should have
>Final Fantasy X
>Dark Souls 3
>Hollow Knight
You could put in most 2000s VNs in there.
Fate, MuvLuv, Saya No Uta, you name it.
>not DMC, Dark Souls, TLOU and God of War.
>not [random selection of games I personally hate]
are you actually 13?
cry more
Pokemon Black and White
No one is saying that TWEWY is too deep 4 u, just that you have to be an actual moron to not get what it’s saying. Which evidently describes a lot of Ganker posters these days.
>Characters having motives and the plot meaning something beyond its surface value means its "2deep4u" garbage and I say that because I'm too stupid to understand it otherwise
You fricking people
>motives
>plot
>story
Strange, I don't recall wanting a walking simulator.
Nobody fricked asked you ACgay
I asked.
OP is a homosexual
obligatory
Ironically, this entire chart is the epitome of "I’m 13 and this is deep."
>chingchong slopgames no one cares about in the bottom cell
7/10 made me reply
not enough gay sex for you?
No
And why would you have that saved?
I don't. I spent 10 seconds searching the archive and popped the link into Ganker x
nta but probably to btfo annoying burgers
at the bottom, what is the touhou game called and on which playstation console is it ?
also from the bottom, top left, the Nintendo one and the welfare one, what are they called ? i wanna check them out but can't make out the titles
I believe that one is genius of sappheiros. Its basically a SaGa clone (or so i've been told, never played SaGa).
Afaik, its not on play Station, it just looks like it because of the Growlanser 4 cover which has the "psp, only on playstation" bar.
I think the 2hu game is Labyrinth of Touhou
This post was made by an irony poisoned moron that believe any kind of sincerity is bad.
Your suicide note.
you know that "trinity" means 3 you absolute moron.
SMT Nocturne