What exactly is a "region"? Why is Johto considered one but Kitakami is not?
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What exactly is a "region"? Why is Johto considered one but Kitakami is not?
What exactly is a "region"? Why is Johto considered one but Kitakami is not?
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Kitakami is more like the orange islands.
How is it something that only exists in the anime?
>intentionally being moronic
You literally go there in gen 1 moron.
what the FRICK are you talking about
>orange islands
Which was also called a region, while Kitakami is never referred to as such
Sevii Islands
Kitakami is tiny
It's like a third of Paldea at best
>why is a small mountain town not considered a region?!!!
>What exactly is a "region"?
An extension of land, probably a jurisdiction too.
>Why is Johto considered one but Kitakami is not?
Where did they say Kitakami isn't? Also, it has regular Wooper so its at least a different region to Paldea, if not the whole region itself.
>Where did they say Kitakami isn’t?
it’s always called “Land of Kitakami” instead of “the Kitakami region”
Briar calls it a region you dumbasses
The dlc area is small as shit, fricking Isle of Armor felt more expansive.
Play the games
Where the frick even is Kitakami? It's obviously Poke Japan but where?
Tohoku. It's supposed to be Morioka and the surrounding area, including parts of the Iwate, Akita and Aomori prefectures
It is probably around Kitakami, the actual real place.
Can you line up exactly where
Iwate-san is the real-life counterpart of Oni Mountain
Ahh thanks. I was going off of Bulbapedo which tried to claim another mountain was.
>has a city called Oga nearby
>probably has a pond as well
Lazy
>It's obviously [poketuber headcanon]
Hm if only this was a real life place like Kanto hm.
The Ursaluna in Kitakami supposedly rafted there from Hisui (Hokkaido), so it has to be somewhere in the northern part of Japan, likely Tohoku. Kitakami can even be translated to "god of the north".
It's clearly conected to Shinjoh. It has both Johto and Shinnoh pokemon.
It has mons from all regions.
It's north of Honshu, between Kanto and Sinnoh
The closest comparison main-series wise is probably the Sevii Islands; a distinct locale with unique Pokemon compared to the mainland, but with few humans to solidify it
In-universe “region” is used like a stand-in for “country,” so the simple answer is probably that Kitakami lacks the needed features (government, etc.) to be a country. It’s functionally just the land immediately surrounding a mountain.
In theory it should be part of a different region, though, and it’s odd they’re so gung-ho about Blueberry Academy being in Unova but silent about where Kitakami is.
>they’re so gung-ho about Blueberry Academy
They aren't, it was just a single line by Jacq. You're mixing the fandom reaction with the actual content.
>but silent about where Kitakami is.
Because they don't have to conform to your headcanon.
Gung-ho was probably too enthusiastic, I just mean they’re explicit about one’s location and not the other’s.
Yes it is.
>Yes it is.
A majority of regions are based off real world regions, not entire countries.
Kanto and Johto explicitly share a league and you can freely travel between the two regions.
There is literally no evidence to suggest your head canon is absolute.
The evidence is that Kanto and Johto are treated in-universe as equivalent to places like Unova and Galar, which are much more distinct and country-like. They all fall under the same umbrella term of “region.”
I think most people would agree that Galar is a “country,” given it has a royal family and a distinct gym league, so why wouldn’t Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, etc.? If people in-universe refer to them with the same term they must be equivalent.
but in theory there could be more UK regions
>The evidence is that Kanto and Johto are treated in-universe as equivalent to places like Unova and Galar
>Source: My ass
I don't agree with that anon but they ARE treated that way, as 2 separate regions, much like Unova and Galar are.
You can literally take a train or fly from one to the other. No passports, no fuss. Same country.
Also literally the sane fricking league.
All of European Union confirmed to be the same country.
That's just you realgayging over the text.
The text comes first. Its how it works in any other fanbase.
>In-universe “region” is used like a stand-in for “country,”
No.
>In-universe “region” is used like a stand-in for “country,”
It isn't. Johto, Sinnoh, Kanto are all regions in the game, but none of them are a country.
>More Poketuberslop Headcanon
Zoomers must leave
Okay moron, prove that Kanto is a country.
Should be simple right, unlike with "headcanon".
Region=Country.
Pokejapan=Poketuberslop
So why is it called the “National Dex” then instead of the “World Dex”? It’s because the first 4 regions were all part of the same country
A region is a nation and the nation is the entire Pokemon world.
Source: My ass but it makes sense in the context the words are used.
We've been told there are multiple countries. The Skill Swap dialogue in canavale and the original text of the language class confirm this.
Sorry, I forgot the pokemon fanbase doesn't give a single shit about what's in the actual games.
>okay in that case even more land is part of the same country
Yes
>try to disprove my point without deflecting to Pokétubers
What I wanted to disprove is taht only the first 4 regions are in teh same country. I said "NTA".
NTA, but the natdex went up to Gen 6.
You can't just cherry pick what suits your poketuber's headcanon.
okay in that case even more land is part of the same country
try to disprove my point without deflecting to Pokétubers
Pokemon is non-subtly referencing real life, why is your headcanon the default hm?
in real life America and France aren’t owned by Japan
The term "National Dex" was a leftover from Gen 2. It was a combination of the Kanto Dex + Johto Dex, which were right next to each other and shared the same E4.
While you could argue Hoenn and Sinnoh are still part of the same "nation" as Kanto and Johto despite not being directly connected in the games, since both are still based on Japan, it's hard to justify it for Unova and Kalos.
if kanto were a part of a much bigger country it would have been named at least once by now instead of every character across the world and even organized competitions like the PWT (that have no reason to not label foreign competitors by their country of origin the same way the olympics does) going "HOLY SHIT ITS THAT GUY FROM THE KANTO REGION"
NTA but he said they're stand-ins for countries, not that they literally are countries in-universe.
Johto is debatable since it seems to share a government and capital with Kanto, but Sinnoh and Hoenn are clearly different nations from Kanto/Johto in the pokemon world, even though they're all part of Japan in our world.
Sinnoh, Hoenn, Unova and Kalos are known to be on the same country as Kanto-Johto.
>known
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
>Kalos
Frick off, that's bullshit
Unova? Kalos? What??
They share the national dex in-game. Its the same reason we knew Kanto-Johto were the same country.
It wouldn't be weird if the other regions also fit, considering they never act as if they're from different countries(Jacq says Briar is from Unova, not from another country) and they all share the same currency, but we can't say for sure.
Kanto-Kalos is unarguable though.
all this headcanon unironically made me cringe. looks like this will be another thread for a single autist to sperg about his "vision".
Have fun, i'm out of here.
what headcanon?
If I understand correctly his argument is that because they keep calling the pokedex expansion the "National Dex" until Gen 7, all those regions must be part of the same nation.
>Kalos
thats poke-France you moron
It has been proven otherwise. I'd tell you to read the thread but its clear realgays can't read.
It has been proven otherwise.
This is what I mean about mental gymnastics. Kalos is France. It's blatant. Everything is named in French, the Eiffel Tower is there, there are berets and baguettes everywhere. It's Poke-France. It's even established to be within swimming distance of Galar, aka Poke-Britain. Just like Unova and Alola are established as being far away from the Japanese regions like actual North America is from Japan. Just like the Japanese regions have the same layout as their real-world counterparts. It's literally that easy but you're obsessed with this idea that the Pokemon world has so much more creative and consistent worldbuilding than it actually does. It's our world 1:1 but a little to the left. It really is that simple
Anon, the one denying literal game text are the realgays. You can't blame anyone else for mental gymnastics.
> you're obsessed with this idea that the Pokemon world has so much more creative and consistent worldbuilding
No, I literally said there are issues with the world building, its just that anons here failed to provide one, which is more important as it becomes clear by the fact that after multiple times, he and you failed to provide one. A contradiction is when a thing is established and then an opposite one is.
If the setting differs from your headcanon that's not a contradiction.
If something is kept vague that's not a contradiction either.
This isn't hard to get and the real issue here is that your reading comprehension skills are below the literal toddlers GF targets the game to.
> It's our world 1:1 but a little to the left.
Its funny you say this because you explode in a coping rage every single time GF does something slightly different to the real world.
To got with the Paldea-Kitakami example. If you assume everything is 1:1 like the real world then they should speak a different language.
Yet they don't, so you see this as an issue.
For a well-adjusted person this means the initial assumption is wrong.
For you, it HAS to be an issue with GF.
NTA, but you haven't provided a contradiction either. You've just been pointing and screaming about how everyone else is wrong.
>In-universe “region” is used like a stand-in for “country,”
Nothing in the games supports this. For one thing, the four Japan regions all number their routes together.
>This is Pal Park! Pokémon from around the country can be brought here. In other words, Pokémon from places like Kanto and Hoenn.
What did Professor Oak mean by this? For context, he's in the Pal Park in Sinnoh when he says this to the player.
>What did Professor Oak mean by this?
NTA but he means that you can catch pokemon from all over the country.
Places, such as(but not limited to, by the actual wording) Kanto and Hoenn.
Yes, they're regions of a country, but he never said its comprised of only Kanto to Sinnoh. The first hint should be the fact that he outright doesn't mention one of the regions of "pokejapan".
I didn’t say it was only comprised of Kanto and Sinnoh either. I just pointed o it what he said and that it implies Kanto and Hoenn are within the same “country” as Kanto. Which it does. There would be no reason to say that if it was exclusive to just the Pokémon they share with the same region. If they weren’t wanted to be considered in the same country, he could’ve just said “other regions like Kanto or Hoenn”.
Kanto, Hoenn, Sinnoh (and presumably Johto, no reason to mention it as there are no Johto GBA games) are in the same country. Whether or not other regions are is still up for debate.
However it’s likely Unova is not, as it’s stressed it’s very far away, which is why BW1 didn’t have any returning Pokémon.
Truth is, there’s no definition to any of this and it’s all just autistic people arguing that their interpretation of English translated text is the only valid one.
>I didn’t say it was only comprised of Kanto and Sinnoh either
No, you said its Kanto, Johto Hoenn and Sinnoh.
Which is just not the case.
>If they weren’t wanted to be considered in the same country
No one is saying they aren't in the same country.
>Whether or not other regions are is still up for debate.
Only Alola, Galar, Paldea and Kitakami.
Kalos and Unova are not up for debate, you're just realgayging.
> very far away
Doesn't make it a different country.
Realgays have no idea how geography works.
>Truth is, there’s no definition to any of this
You're denying the definitions that are.
>it’s all just autistic people arguing that their interpretation of English translated text
Ok then, what is different in japanese and where did I bring up an english translation change as proof?
>Kalos and Unova are not up for debate
The routes being numbered starting from 0 implied they are not part of the same nation.
>No, you said it’s Kanto, Johto Hoenn and Sinnoh.
Nope, I said that Oak says Hoenn, Kanto, and Sinnoh are the same country, and that by association Johto is, and that those four are at least one country. Never said only those four are. Sorry you have to misread and twist my words so you can get some kind of internet win.
>No one is saying they aren't in the same country.
Didn’t say people were. Was pointing out if they wanted to be ambiguous about what a country is, they could’ve just said “other regions”. Your reading comprehension is very poor (was that word too big for you?)
>Only Alola, Galar, Paldea and Kitakami Kalos and Unova are not up for debate, you're just realgayging
Nope. Just pointing out there is zero concrete worded evidence that they’re in any of the same countries. We only know that they’re regions.
>Doesn't make it a different country. Realgays have no idea how geography works.
Never said it was. Just pointing out it’s very far away, which is why it had new Pokémon.
>You're denying the definitions that are
Except there aren’t any, unless you have a copy of the game design drafts where the devs have explained each in detail? If you have any citation for the rules other than your own headcanon and what’s written in the games, let me know.
>Ok then, what is different in japanese and where did I bring up an english translation change as proof?
I don’t know, and I don’t care. The only things we’re working off here are the English games. Why are what the English games doing the definitive lore over the games in the language of origin?
The only argument I’m making is that Kanto, Sinnoh, Hoenn, and Johto are in the same country as per Oak’s dialogue. I’m not making any claims that others are or aren’t part of that same country, you’re just so desperate for a win you have to find things that aren’t there. They could all easily be in the same country no problem.
>Never said only those four are.
Its implied by the fact you attacked the antipokejapan autist.
> Just pointing out there is zero concrete worded evidence that they’re in any of the same countries.
There's actual concrete evidence for Kalos and Unova.
Your favorite poketuber doesn't like it but its there.
>Never said it was.
You did by bringing it up in the discussion of whether its a different country.
>Except there aren’t any
There are.
>I don’t know, and I don’t care.
Then don't criticize people for relying on those if you can't say what the issue is.
> Why are what the English games doing the definitive lore over the games in the language of origin?
They aren't, but that's only an issue if there's a change. If the translation is good then its irrelevant.
>It is obvious what he actually meant
He meant whether people ate pokemon.
As I told him, if you want a different question answered then ask that question. It's not hard.
>if you want a different question answered then ask that question. It's not hard.
I did, I elaborated on his question by explaining he is asking if people actively hunt and kill Pokemon for the purpose of consumption.
You didn't. You kept acting as if you originally asked a different question.
Bro
I just asked the fricking question
And you are still arguing over the semantics of the initial question he asked
Quit being a homosexual
Do people hunt and kill Pokemon for food?
>And you are still arguing over the semantics of the initial question he asked
Because that's more important. The anon bashed GF's worldbuilding but he ended up showing that the actual issue lies on his lack of reading comprehension skills. That's way more important that pokemon hunting/eating.
>Do people hunt and kill Pokemon for food?
I can't recall a statement about that now.
>There’s not, and you just saying so doesn’t make it so.
The national dex is not a thing?
Oh, right, your favorite poketuber is the one who says what happens.
> as the only text I can go off of
That isn't the only text.
> unless someone from Game Freak says something there’s literally no official answer
Oh, so now official sources matter?
>Unless you have something to present otherwise
It was done so multiple times in this thread.
>The national dex is not a thing?
Oh, right, your favorite poketuber is the one who says what happens.
For starters you’re too moronic to realize I’m not even completely disagreeing with you, you just are so angry about the idea that maybe “National Dex” doesn’t literally mean “everything is in the same country.” All I’ve pointed out is the only time the game as definitively mentioned what country a region is in, and you sperged out and decided that meant I had to be against you or whatever.
I also don’t watch any poketubers.
>That isn't the only text.
I don’t read other languages and I don’t care enough to through the effort of translating the dialogue changes of every game to decipher if the English version is the same or not.
>Oh, so now official sources matter?
Duh, moron? They’re the ones who invented the world and the lore? Why would anything other than what they dictate about it be canon?
>It was done so multiple times in this thread.
The only evidence is just the called the expanded pokedex the National Dex. I’ve been to events where the big conference is called the “National” event but other countries also saw representation. Maybe National Dex does mean they’re in the same region, but it doesn’t inherently because you decided this time the word is literal. Are there any npcs or verified guides that discuss what countries different regions are in? Until then, Unova could be its own thing, or could be in the same country.
>, you just are so angry about the idea that maybe “National Dex” doesn’t literally mean “everything is in the same country.”
I literally said it doesn't.
>All I’ve pointed out is the only time the game as definitively mentioned what country a region is in
That wasn't the only time.
>I don’t read other languages and I don’t care enough to through the effort of translating the dialogue changes of every game to decipher if the English version is the same or not.
Good thing its also in the english version then.
> They’re the ones who invented the world and the lore? Why would anything other than what they dictate about it be canon?
Then you wouldn't be saying things different to that they said.
>The only evidence is just the called the expanded pokedex the National Dex.
Which is enough, they also use the same currency and never address as people from different countries among themselves. The burden of proof is on people saying they're different. You can't say its up for debate.
>you decided this time the word is literal
Why wouldn't it be literal? Please explain this.
>Until then, Unova could be its own thing, or could be in the same country.
If you ignore the evidence that its the same, sure, but then you can't claim to care about official sources.
>That wasn't the only time.
Other than the Prof. Oak example, when do the games explicitly say what countries the regions are in? If it’s already been said, then go ahead and put the post number.
So you’re only actually eating an animal if you’ve hunted and killed it?
If you eat something that’s fallen off an animal, you’re still eating part of that animal. The claw having fallen off does not change the fact that they are eating Klawf meat, from a Klawf Pokémon.
>Guys no see it’s not actually meat or eating the animal the meat just fell off naturally!
moronic.
>It’s implied by the fact you attacked the antipokejapan autist.
No, you just decided that’s what I meant because you’re angry.
>There's actual concrete evidence for Kalos and Unova. Your favorite poketuber doesn't like it but its there.
There’s not, and you just saying so doesn’t make it so.
>You did by bringing it up in the discussion of whether it’s a different country.
Just stating the facts, and other than agreeing that the first 4 regions are within a country as the only text I can go off of would agree, I’m not taking any sides at all.
>There are.
There’s not, and you just saying so doesn’t make it so.
>Then don't criticize people for relying on those if you can't say what the issue is
I’m criticizing both the fact that unless someone from Game Freak says something there’s literally no official answer. Unless you have something to present otherwise, which you haven’t done just said “it is/isnt” with nothing to back you up.
There are probably other regions, but at that time there were only 4 main regions anyways, so Oak not mentioning Unova is obvious. But if there are more unseen Japanese regions he didn't mention them either, so not naming Johto explicitly doesn't really prove anything. If one were to say "there are animals from all over the USA here. In other words, animals from places like New York and Californa" it doesn't mean that suddenly North Dakota isn't part of the USA because I didn't name an exhaustive list of all the states that make up that country.
>anyways, so Oak not mentioning Unova is obvious
Yes, but realgays ignore this.
>ut if there are more unseen Japanese regions he didn't mention them either, so not naming Johto explicitly doesn't really prove anything.
It proves you can't take that statement as exclusive of the regions he mentions unless you think Johto and Kanto are a different country.
>How did I not point an issue?
You simply didn't. Explained when I addressed each one. You're "points" are just you ignoring actual evidence, pointing out at vague stuff(itself not a contradiction) or pointing out times where the games contradict your headcanon.
You haven't mentioned a single time where a thing was stated and then cotnradicted.
And, mind you, such cases DO exist. GF worldbuilding is far from perfect.
> I'm just calling out their bad worldbuilding.
You aren't. You're just making up issues.
>this shit again
>You guys are very adamant about not getting the point huh
If you wanted a different question to be answered you should've asked a different question.
>If you wanted a different question to be answered you should've asked a different question.
I’m not the person who asked the initial question
It is obvious what he actually meant, you’re playing semantic bullshit games.
*your
how is it referred to in the game?
“Land of Kitakami” instead of “the Kitakami region”
Because if they call it a region they'll have to acknowledge it as such whenever they talk about regions.
They don't want to do that for DLC bullshit.
one of the older gens, i think 2, uses "country" and "region" interchangably. the modern gens are a bit more strict about not using words and terms from the real world
The problem is the first 2 gens took place in an alt-universe Earth. Kanto and Johto weren’t regions of a fictional world, they were the literal Kanto and Johto regions of Japan. References to regions and use of terms like “National Dex” were then carried over into gen 3 and beyond when they switched to a completely fictional setting.
This makes it a bit confusing to talk about. The term “national dex” in gen 2 and the term as used now are necessarily different.
there is no region of Japan called Johto, it’s based on Kansai
I worded that poorly. I meant the Kanto and Johto regions in-game were literally set in Japan, not a fictional setting inspired by Japan like the later games.
Gen 2 didn’t introduce the term “National Dex,” that was Gen 3
>Gen 10 region is another PokeJapan region
>Post-game reveals that Kitakami is part of said region and allows you to visit it
>PokeJapan
ITS NOT A THING!! STOP PARROTING POKETUBERSLOP!!! SHUT THE FRICK UP!!!! FRICK OFF!!
I CAN'T FRICKING STAND THIS ANYMORE!!! NOTHING STATES THAT KANTO.JOHTO,HOENN, AND SINNOH ARE IN SOME POKEMON VERSION OF JAPAN.
ONLY KANTO AND JOHTO ARE CONNECTED!!
HGSS SHINTO BULLSHIT IS ALSO NOT CANON!!! SHUT.THE.FRICK.UP!!!
Unironically take your fricking meds
If it wasn't for Johto we could just say a Region is a Pokemon League and its catchment area of challengers, and ignore all the Nation autism.
Gen 2 really did ruin everything.
It's just underdeveloped, it's probably the rough equivalent of Alola a few decades before SM take place, or hisui after legends but well before DP. If we ever come back to kitakami (lol) we'll probably see it expanded outwards and more developed with its first gyms being set up.
Kitakami has one village, Johto has various towns and cities.
national dex implies there is some sort of entity that includes those regions as members
Alola was the first game to have no national dex, likewise, it was the first game to have a different league system.
You can argue the lack of nat dex and standard league system means they are not part of the same entity, say, a nation.
>morons haven't played the games
From gen 2
>Deep inside far-off INDIGO PLATEAU is the POKéMON LEAGUE. I hear the best trainers gather there from around the country.
>A whole pile of strange coins! Maybe they're from another country...
>Hey, kid! Me am a TEAM ROCKET member kind of guy! Come from another country, a trainer number one, me!
Gen 4
>Hello, Trainer! This is something I found. It was mixed in with a load of cargo from another country.
>Since I came to this country, always I try to learn new things. They hold Contests in this city?
>My partner called it quits and went back to his old country...
>The best Trainers from around the country... No, the best Trainers from around the world gather here.
>Pokémon from around the country can be brought here. In other words, Pokémon from places like Kanto and Hoenn.
>Danke schon, arigato, gracias, and what-have-you! That MAGIKARP, it accompanied me from the country of my birth.
Gen 5
>Correct... How can a world with so many countries arguing be put to order...?
Gen 6
>Medicinal herbs from foreign countries.They make Pokémon healthy! Come now. Buy them!
Gen 7
>Depending on what time you’re trying to communicate with other Trainers, you might find it easier to connect to Trainers from a certain country.
Gen 9
>In an attempt to gain the power to stand against Paldea’s neighboring countries, the emperor sent people in droves to join the hunt for the fabled treasure of Area Zero.
>He was particularly fond of treasures from other countries. One day, a merchant from the East heard rumors of this king and came to meet him.
>The king called for renowned Pokémon wielders to defend the country and, after a fierce battle, these incarnations of disaster were quelled.
Regions are areas within a country, both exist in the pokemon world.
Also in japanese, the Land of Kitakami is called キタカミの里, Kitakami's countryside/hometown/boarding house/village, meaning it's a certain area within an unknown region in some country.
You can swim from Kalos to Hoenn….
…and swim from Galar to Kalos…
…But also Unova is pretty far from the first 4 gens…
…I don’t have screenshots available for the next ones, but:
In DPPt, Professor Oak claims that Kanto, Sinnoh, and Hoenn are all part of the same country (but doesn’t mention Johto)
Unova being so far away is why BW1 only has new Pokémon
That one city in Unova was built by people who came from Kanto and Johto
Kitakami is east of Paldea
>In DPPt, Professor Oak claims that Kanto, Sinnoh, and Hoenn are all part of the same country
He doesn't.
Except he does
Learn to read.
What else would “Pokémon from around the country can be brought here. In other words Pokémon from Kanto and Hoenn” mean otherwise?
Get it over it sperg, Oak confirms they’re regions of a country.
Swimming across the english channel has been done a couple thousand times now
This one seems more like a joke, but
might be realistic if the distance between Galar to Kalos are similar to England and France.
>it counts if it supports realgayging but if it doesn't its a joke
I'm just saying it sounds like a joke in context, but I obviously don't know. Could be legit. GF was always dogshit at world building tbh.
> GF was always dogshit at world building tbh.
99% of the issues you have are probably it conflicting with your headcanon or your own lack of reading comprehension skills.
I don't know why are you're being an butthole to me for no reason. It's just a fact that they are extremely inconsistent with in-game rules such as locations and their distances to each other, their food (Are Pokemon eaten or not? If not, where does all the meat come from? Why are there apples, strawberries, bananas etc when there's also leppa, rawst and nanab berries?), the intelligence of Pokémon, the existence of languages etc. It's just bad world building because they don't care about it, they just do whatever is convenient and/or easier to market. That's a fact.
>It's just a fact that they are extremely inconsistent with in-game rules such as locations and their distances to each other
such as?
>Are Pokemon eaten or not?
Yes, it has been confirmed multiple times.
>Why are there apples, strawberries, bananas etc when there's also leppa, rawst and nanab berries?
>why are there fruits in one piece when there's also the devil fruits?
>the intelligence of Pokémon
what about them?
> the existence of languages
what about them?
> It's just bad world building because they don't care about it
Aside from the fact you have yet to point to an issue, writers are not supposed to answer the autistic specific questions you have.
>such as?
We don't have anything resembling a full world map, we can only guess relations and distances to the regions from vague thing's people say. Plus, it's very inconsistent about which Pokémon are from which region. This is obviously for gameplay reasons, but they never give good in-universe reasons for it.
>Yes, it has been confirmed multiple times.
>Yes, this is extremely clear. They try to avoid direct mentions of humans killing pokemon for food, but it is known that pokemon are eaten both by humans and by other pokemon.
Well, the fact that they constantly omit the truth about Pokémon being eaten is bad world building. It's unclear unless you read between the lines. Are there any examples in the games that say that Pokémon are still consumed? I only know the book in Sinnoh that implies that Pokémon USED TO be eaten, but nothing hints at that still being the case as far as I know. I could be wrong though.
was mentioned to be from Klawf claws that fell off, they weren't killed for it btw.
>why are there fruits in one piece when there's also the devil fruits?
Devil fruits are different, they are unique. Also, One Piece is One Piece, what does that have to do with Pokémon worldbuilding? Dumbass argument to be honest with you.
>what about them?
They can't decide if Pokémon have human-level intelligence and empathy or not. On one hand they keep saying how Pokémon are our best friends, how they understand our language and a couple of dex entries mentioning Pokémon being able to speak. Yet they eat from pet bowls, sleep in pet beds, play with pet joys like dumb ass animals etc. It's inconsistent.
>what about them?
There's language classes in SV and mentions of languages in other games too. Yet everyone can understand everyone, no matter which region they are from. Why does "French" or "Chinese" exist in the Pokémon world when France or Chinese does not? Why is not "Kalosian" instead of French? None of this makes any sense.
cont
Most of the direct mentions involve body parts that fall off naturally, but Basculin's dex entry describes its taste.
>We don't have anything resembling a full world map, we can only guess relations and distances to the regions from vague thing's people say.
This isn't an inconsistency.
>t's very inconsistent about which Pokémon are from which region.
such as?
>Well, the fact that they constantly omit the truth about Pokémon being eaten is bad world building
They don't omit it at all, evidence was presented to you already.
> they weren't killed for it btw.
and? You asked whether people eat pokemon, not whether pokemon are killed to be eaten. That's the real issue here, your reading comprehension is lower than the one GF aims to.
>Also, One Piece is One Piece, what does that have to do with Pokémon worldbuilding?
Its an example of how moronic your argument is as both kinds can coexist.
>Yet they eat from pet bowls, sleep in pet beds, play with pet joys like dumb ass animals etc.
How does that contradict the previosu thing?
>Yet everyone can understand everyone, no matter which region they are from.
In real life, there are multiple countries that speak the same language. Not to mention most regions we visited are the same country even. Also, keep in mind that the language classes in SV are mistranslated, in the original it says the language differs from country to country, not region.
>Why does "French" or "Chinese" exist in the Pokémon world when France or Chinese does not?
Who says those exist?
>people “eat Pokemon” but only in a way that’s consensual and doesn’t harm them
so people eat pokemon?
>so people eat pokemon?
You guys are very adamant about not getting the point huh
Are there ex big fisheries where people fish up Basculin in bulk to eat? It’s tasty after all in the dex so people must eat it. But at the same time Pokemon is flippant about how much sentience Pokemon have, so what’s the morality of it?
Morality is a spook. You can ethically eat any non-human as long as you aren't torturing it.
I mostly agree with you, I think, but you are being deliberately obtuse about anon's language point. Language is really inconsistent throughout Pokemon.
Like sometimes the existence and prevalence of different languages is acknowledged, like with the bye-bye-a-go-go grunt, that one stowaway in Hoenn, and Fantina's speech patterns. But then other times it's like the whole world speaks the same language, or is just absurdly multilingual.
Scarlet and Violet are actually a great example of this. The player character is not from Paldea, but has no problem communicating with anyone in the game. That makes enough sense, they applied to go to school there, so they knew they were moving there well in advance and so likely learned the language in preparation. Great, checks out. But then why does Nemona sometimes pepper Spanish into her speech? They should already be speaking Spanish, so what's happening? Does this mean every character in the game is actually speaking the player's language for their benefit, even amongst themselves? And what about Kitakami? The player didn't know in advance they'd be going on a field trip, so they wouldn't have had time to teach themselves Japanese, yet they still have no communication issues, nor do any of the other students on the trip. So either the dominant language in the very obviously Japanese-coded Kitakami is Spanish, or everyone from Paldea is able to speak and read fluently in Japanese. Or, more likely, the existence of the language barrier was handwaived here because it wasn't important to the plot. And like, I get it. I'm happy we could just get on with the story and not waste time on boorish communication issues subplots, but it is frustrating if you're looking for consistent worldbuilding.
>you are being deliberately obtuse about anon's language poin
No, he simply isn't presenting a contradiction.
>The player character is not from Paldea, but has no problem communicating with anyone in the game.
You're assuming Paldea, Kitakami and the Player's origin are places with different languages which has never been said.
You're also assuming they speak the language of their real world counterparts which is not the case.
That's the case here, you're making a conclusion about the game before seeing what the game present you.
And when it turns out the game doesn't conform to your headcanon you assume there's a contradiciton, but you haven't pointed one, much like the other anon did.
And, to reitarate, there ARE contradictions in the setting.
Anon, covering your ears and yelling that there's no contradiction doesn't make it go away. You don't need to do all these mental gymnastics to explain every little inconsistency in Pokemon. The real world exists and influences it. It's okay, you can rest
>194 posts in
>hasn't been able to post a contradiction
But sure, I'm the one covering my ears.
>continues to deny
deny what?
>DEBATE ME! DEBATE ME!!!!
Not a good look, bud
>Aside from the fact you have yet to point to an issue, writers are not supposed to answer the autistic specific questions you have.
How did I not point an issue? Are you just ignoring every single point of criticism I bring up by just saying "Uhm no this not a problem, the games totally explained that with this vague statement" or shit?
>you are not supposed to ask questions! don't ask questions, just consume!
Come the frick on man. What's with this stance? There is no reason why we should just suck up to GFs bad writing. I'm not saying we should burn down GFs office or anything, I'm just calling out their bad worldbuilding. And again, I get WHY they do it, it's just easier for marketing and doesn't NEED to be explained, so they just leave a lot of things vague for convenience sake.
>Are Pokemon eaten or not?
Yes, this is extremely clear. They try to avoid direct mentions of humans killing pokemon for food, but it is known that pokemon are eaten both by humans and by other pokemon.
He needs a poketuber to tell him that, not the actual games.
>Are Pokemon eaten or not? If not, where does all the meat come from?
Klawfs shed their arms like how species of Crab use their arm as bait for predators, that’s why it has regenerator
and?
And that means the game is tip toeing around it, people “eat Pokemon” but only in a way that’s consensual and doesn’t harm them
>People clearly eat parts of Pokémon regardless if they're shedded or not (see Slowpoketails)
>"NOOOOO!!!! PEOPLE DON'T EAT POKÉMON!!!!! HEADCANNON!!!!!!!"
>slowpoketails
Slowpoke also do the same thing and have regenerator for the same reason lol
So you agree, they eat Pokémon. Next question.
That is clearly not what he means. He’s asking if people would hunt a Pokemon, cook it, and eat it.
They mention that often in Nessa's town
They say they have to careful not to overfish too
Slowpoketails are canonically cut off in order to be eaten. Please play GSC or HGSS.
>Although their tails, which fall off naturally, can easily be found lying around, they're a precious ingredient for cooking.
Nope, only Bad Guys cut them 🙂
>Guys if a bad guy hurts an animal for food that’s not really eating them and if it falls off naturally that’s also not really eating them.
Is this how Vegans and Vegetarians justify breaking their own shitty rules?
Unironically yes and that’s what makes it a shitty cop out
>oh haha no Pokemon are actually hurt the meat just falls off every now and then and people eat it xD
He’s not asking about that
NTA but it being a "copout" doesn't necesarilly mean its inconsistent and specially, that its not explained, which was the original point of the post asking the question.
What makes it inconsistent is that some Pokedex entries explicitly describe the Pokemon as tasting good/bad, which indicates people must hunt and eat Pokemon…but it and any hypothetical moral debates or infrastructure (ex: a port town that exports the aforementioned Basculin as a main source of income) all are offscreen only or don’t exist. So there’s a clear conflict between what you’re told and shown.
>which indicates people must hunt and eat Pokemon
It indicates they eat them.
Anon, hunting and eating are two different things. The cow meat you get at the supermarket wasn't hunted.
>t it and any hypothetical moral debates or infrastructure (ex: a port town that exports the aforementioned Basculin as a main source of income) all are offscreen only or don’t exist
And? You're not pointing out a contradiction here.
> So there’s a clear conflict between what you’re told and shown.
such as?
>Anon, hunting and eating are two different things. The cow meat you get at the supermarket wasn't hunted.
Dude you are sniffing your own farts with this semantic bullshit. It’s not relevant to the point at all whether it’s a Basculin fishery or hatchery
Because you keep mixing the two things anon.
You said entries that discuss pokemon taste imply hunting which isn't the case at all.
I said “hunting” because I was trying to clarify I’m asking if the Pokemon are KILLED FOR THE PURPOSE OF EATING and then you immediately go “well technically they could be bred in captivity too!”
I KNOW THAT DUMBASS
>I said “hunting” because I was trying to clarify I’m asking if the Pokemon are KILLED FOR THE PURPOSE OF EATING
Except you mentioned non of that when you described the dex entries.
>I KNOW THAT DUMBASS
Then act like you do.
Look you just play the same game again
The question is recontextualized to make it clearer what is actually meant and you just go “nah nah nah nah nah you didn’t cover every possible form of animal meat extraction”
>Look you just play the same game again
Because you keep making the same mistake.
I am willing to listen but when given the change you kept repeating the same mistake.
Ultimately, its more important you realize there's an issue with your reading comprehension rather than whether GF wrote hunting in the setting.
There is no “mistake” you’re actively refusing to engage with me at all these are EXAMPLES
>There is no “mistake”
>some Pokedex entries explicitly describe the Pokemon as tasting good/bad, which indicates people must hunt and eat Pokemon
To know the taste you have to eat, not hunt, which is a different action. These entries imply eating, not hunting, which, again, is a different action.
>these are EXAMPLES
You didn't give examples, you just said they exist.
Like dude honestly this is fricking moronic
>person A
Do people eat Pokemon
>Answer: yeah
>Me
He obviously is asking along the lines of killing Pokemon to eat ex hunting them
>you
“Um aktually they don’t have to hunt them they could raise them in captivity and then eat them”
What does this add to the discussion
It adds because its more important the anon realizes it was his fault rather than the answer to the actual question.
What doesn't add to the discussion is pretending there's a contradiction without presenting the two contradicting items.
Still waiting for you to show examples of people killing Basculin for food 🙂
Actually here I’ll give a better example of the kind of question these kind of dex entries raise
If Ash had his Farfetch’d beat a wild Farfetch’d to death, then cooked it and ate it, would this be morally acceptable? Because we know people eat Farfetch’d from the dex entries
Not OP but BW2, X, and OR all say:
>Red- and blue-striped Basculin are very violent and always fighting. They are also remarkably tasty.
Doesn’t outright say people are hunting/killing them, but implies they’re eaten enough for people to know.
Also it’s not Basculin but Sword’s entry does mention that its flesh is quite tasty, but AFAIK there’s not a lore reason you could get its flesh passively, unlike Veluza (I don’t think at least?)
It seems all the evidence of Pokémon being eaten is vague in older games (just referring to if they taste good) whereas newer games either treat what’s eaten as passive byproducts (but I mean, if you’re eating Veluza or Klawf flesh…you’re still eating the meat of a Pokemon) or imply they were only eaten long ago.
Sorry, meant sword mentions Barraskewda’s flesh is tasty.
Why should I? What is this schizo shit?
>when do the games explicitly say what countries the regions are in?
They don't say shit about Alola, Galar and Paldea though, but I never said they did.
So just the national dex literal interpretation and nothing actually said by NPCs or established lore, got it.
Why shouldn't the interpretation be literal?
Why do you think that's not lore?
>Oak/HGSS: You've more than exceeded my expectations. You've gone far past them in completing the National Pokédex!
>Birch/Emerald That's why I think it's necessary for me to upgrade your Pokédex to the National Mode. Here, let me see your Pokédex units."
>Birch/ORAS You'll now find the National Pokédex on your Pokédex's menu, so use it well!
>Rowan I'm sure it will be useful for your goal of filling the National Pokédex.
>Cedric/BW Just a moment ago, I got some National Pokédex data from an acquaintance.
>Cedric/bw2 "Nationally, there are more than 600 Pokémon! You'll have to be persistent and catch them at your own pace."
Why don't the multiple times the NPCs refer to the national dex in dialogue not count?
Then if National Pokedex means they’re all in the same nation, then Alola, Galar, Paldea, and even Hisui are part of the same nation, as the official Pokedex resource includes them and assigns them national numbers.
So then either every region from the main games has always been one nation, or the “national” part of the name isn’t literal.
>inb4 “official resources from TPC don’t count because they don’t support what I’m saying!”
>Then if National Pokedex means they’re all in the same nation, then Alola, Galar, Paldea, and even Hisui are part of the same nation, as the official Pokedex resource includes them and assigns them national numbers.
Its very likely the case, yeah.
The problem is that we don't see the natdex within the games themselves, which is why Kanto to Kalos is unarguable. But its very likely they all are, they share the same currency.
>So then either every region from the main games has always been one nation
Probably. The issue is that the Galar dex includes, and has entries for Alolan forms which means a dex can have stuff that isn't what it allegedly covers, which is why I don't claim all the regions are the same country JUST because the natdex includes all mons.
>inb4 “official resources from TPC don’t count because they don’t support what I’m saying!”
You're the one that has been doing that.
>which is why Kanto to Kalos is unarguable
why ONLY Kanto to Kalos is unarguable.
>You're the one that has been doing that.
The only thing I’ve done is not just decide “National Dex” automatically means everything is the same country, given the discrepancy of the different dexes in game and the official full one.
Plenty of people have been arguing in this thread that anything that doesn’t have a “national dex” mode is not within that nation. Others like you are saying they probably are.
I’m not saying they are or they aren’t, I’m saying the only concrete time anyone’s mentioned what country someone is in is the Oak dialogue. The discrepancy of Alola on not having a “national dex” mode but still having everything assigned to a national dex leads me to believe that the term “National” is unreliable.
The only thing I believe firmly is that the first 4 regions are in the same country because they are the only regions to be explicitly stated to be in the same country. Anything beyond Gen 4 is completely open-ended. I just disagree that everything up to Kalos is in the same country “unarguably”.
>is not just decide “National Dex” automatically means everything is the same country
I didn't either. Only the 6 that have it.
That said you do deny official sources. You still haven't answered any questions in
> I’m saying the only concrete time anyone’s mentioned what country someone is in is the Oak dialogue
You were literally given a quote by Cedric confirming otherwise.
>The discrepancy of Alola on not having a “national dex” mode but still having everything assigned to a national dex leads me to believe that the term “National” is unreliable.
That premise doesn't prove that conclusion at all. First, dexes have been seen to refer to external mons and second, that only makes the term unreliable if you first assume they're not the same country which is making the conclusion before the proof.
> Anything beyond Gen 4 is completely open-ended
It isn't and you were given proof.
>I didn't either. Only the 6 that have it.
That said you do deny official sources. You still haven't answered any questions in
#
>You were literally given a quote by Cedric confirming otherwise.
The only one that would lend any credibility to national dex = they’re all the same nation is BW2’s quote. The rest only mean they’re the same country because you assume it does. Unova could be part of the same country then, just far away enough that they had no ability to introduce any of the Pokémon from other regions since its founding until 2 years after BW’s story, which is implausible but could happen, sure. He could also be referring to how BW2’s time now has Pokémon from other regions available.
>That premise doesn't prove that conclusion at all. First, dexes have been seen to refer to external mons and second, that only makes the term unreliable if you first assume they're not the same country which is making the conclusion before the proof.
The conclusion is that if we’re going to say “National Dex” means they’re in the same country then there’s a discrepancy between the games and the official source. There is no conclusion being made before the proof. The discrepancy only exists by your own definition.
>It isn't and you were given proof.
You just saying so doesn’t make it true.
Also, meant to point this out:
>But it’s very likely they all are, they share the same currency.
Eurozone: exists.
Reply if you want, or don’t, cause I’m done arguing about it.
>The only one that would lend any credibility to national dex = they’re all the same nation is BW2’s quote.
Which is a quote by an NPC, much like Oak's.
>because you assume it does
No, I get they're in the same country BECAUSE of the sources, not the other way around. Hence its important for you to answer the questions.
>He could also be referring to how BW2’s time now has Pokémon from other regions available.
That's less than 600 so still.
>The conclusion is that if we’re going to say “National Dex” means they’re in the same country then there’s a discrepancy between the games and the official source.
Which is...
>Eurozone: exists.
They use the yen too?
>cause I’m done arguing about it.
you never really made a proper argument to be fair.
: exists.
>They use the yen too?
lmao he means multiple countries use the Euro idiot, therefore everywhere using pokébucks or whatever doesn't mean they have to be the same country
>pokébucks
the japanese version of all games directly use yen.
I don't want to get involved in this shitfest argument, so I'm just gonna drop my thoughts and bounce
But basically, if every region introduced thus far is all part of the same nation, which seemingly spans the globe, then wouldn't that basically make regions equivalent to countries, thus rendering this whole mess moot? Because if the whole world is one giant country, then its constituent regions would basically function the same way countries do in our world. I don't particularly subscribe to region=country myself, but like. Come on, man.
Honestly, y'all are putting way too much thought into this anyway, definitely more than TPC does. The simplest explanation is that every region is located roughly where its real-world counterpart is, and the country groupings are probably the same as the real world too. Ergo (Kanto/Johto/Hoenn/Sinnoh/Kitakami) (Unova/Alola) (Kalos) (Galar) (Paldea). Discrepancies are the result of real-world influences. Why is it called the National Pokedex if it covers multiple nations? Because they've been calling it that since Gen 3 when each region was part of a single nation and changing it now would be tedious and probably wouldn't catch on anyway. Why are regions like Galar and Paldea, which correspond to entire countries (multiple, actually), still called Regions and thus equated with parts of larger nations like Kanto and Johto? Because that's the established term for the setting of a Pokemon game. Why is the language called "French" in-game instead of Kalosian? Because the game is targeted at children and is written to be easy for them to understand and learn from. It's really not that hard.
>which seemingly spans the globe
We haven't seen the entire globe so no.
>The simplest explanation is that every region is located roughly where its real-world counterpart is, and the country groupings are probably the same as the real world too.
That directly contradicts what was presented and also means you did take a side in the argument.
> Why is it called the National Pokedex if it covers multiple nations? Because they've been calling it that since Gen 3 when each region was part of a single nation and changing it now would be tedious and probably wouldn't catch on anyway.
Again, you're deciding what the text should be and condemning the actual text for not being the same.
It should be the other way around.
>the game is targeted at children and is written to be easy for them to understand and learn from
Yes, which is why the fanbase not understanding them more moronic.
“they eat Pokémon”
>B-B-BUT THAT INVALIDATES MY POINT SO I NEED TO CHANGE WHAT EATING POKÉMON MEANS
It ems like a joke, but based on the dialogue, it seems there's more than just that line. In that case, context would help.
I was really confused that it's just not an island. Why? Japan has tons of islands in literally bumfrick nowhere.
July 7, 1898
Unova enacts a new law allowing them to annexe the region of Kitakami. Making it a part of Unova. Same thing is supposed to happen to Alola soon. All of this will be revealed in the Gen 5 remakes when you got to Kitakami and Alola for post game content.
Paldea is a refion based on two countries, but there's 4 regions that are all based on different parts of the same country. But both are referred to as regions.
What did GF mean by this?
Because it's probably just an extention of an already existing region, like Corsica to France.
In HOME every new TTM Pokémon is classified as “Paldean.” Yes, the four Legendaries are transplants and likely do come from Paldea, but what about Dipplin which can only evolve from the apples that grow in Kitakami, or the Poltchageist line where matcha tea is produced?
And then you have comments like the glasses kid saying this is a new region.
I wonder if Gen 10 will be in the greater region Kitakami is based in, it's clearly just a section of it like Blueberry is Unova, but the whole region goes unnamed unlike Unova
>Blueberry is Unova
Have i missed something?
Yes, Briar literally says that in the DLC introduction.
i see
I think we'll see a greater region set in Tohoku at some point, but Gen 10 feels like it's too soon to actually cover Kitakami again.
yeah probably, i think im just eager to see it soon as because i think itd be nice to go back to japan for the 10th generation
I think exactly the opposite. Tohoku is honestly boring as frick compared to the areas of Japan on which Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh were based on, and the fact Kitakami exists and already contains everything minimally interesting about Tohoku probably means we'll never get a full-fledged Tohoku region unless it is like a postgame region in a new Kanto game or something.
Be that as it may, I still feel like Tohoku is the best option for a fifth Japanese region. I agree with you that there isn't that much to work with compared to the existing four, but nothing is stopping them from inventing a bunch of stuff anyways.
Can you evolve the Ursaring you get from Paldean mainland in this place? is peats block and that stone for kleavor available?
haha lol
Oh cmon!!
I really thought they would put them in the DLC but nah.
I see. That's a bummer. Not sure why. Would have been a good place to have those items...unless it's coming for indigo disk. I mean there's already hisuian basculin and growlithe in kitakami.
She won
What the frick are you talking about OP?
Anon please, you know /vp/ doesn’t actually play the game
Probably not a region because its not economically rich enough and lacks more than a few unique species of pokemon. Based on the types of pokemon found there it seems to be somewhere near Johto and Sinnoh, maybe even part of the Coronet Mountain Range. Politically, its probably lumped in with the Sinjoh-or Tohjoh regional conglomerates.
Kitakami is more of an area within a region like coronet mountain in PLA. Therfore, it's designed to be less than a quarter of the Paldea region.
I think Kitakami is in just Sinnoh.
Jacq gives you a Sinnoh starter and there are some Hisui mons there as well.
Then there's Perrin the very obvious Adaman descendent
Nah, I think its in the same region Sinjoh Ruins are in. There's a looot of Johto mons in Kitakami
Yeah, somewhere between Johto and Sinnoh, most likely
Kitakami seems to be in between sinnoh and Johto imo, has a mix of both regions' pokemon. It at the very least is in PokeJapan