Community-driven video game blog & discussion
This has singlehandedly screwed us so hard, fucking parasites always demanding more. The obsession with growth beyond reason without thought to the long term has given us the era of company hopping CEOs that exist to extract value for shareholders at the expense of the entire company, followed by them being hired at the next company for the amazing work they did of course!
Ford has a book on the issue
Henry Ford himself? What's the title?
The International garden gnome - The World's Foremost Problem
Alright you got me, thought you were trolling for a second before I remembered that part. It's interesting to see how the beliefs of shareholder parasitism have been around in different forms for centuries (and even today). It's unfortunate that despite most people agreeing that those who do not work shall not eat they are also easily convinced it's any specific racial/ethnic/whatever group screwing them over aside from the actual parasites; see what happened to Occupy.
The word "convinced" is outdated and harks back to a time when you had to rely on hearsay, and if you tried to factcheck something at the local library and they didn't have the book, or you didn't have the authority to pull paper records confirming the rumors, you were shit out of luck.
In today's world, you can just click on the name of a malicious investor or executive, scroll down to Early Life, and you no longer need to be "convinced", you can simply know.
There is no single group screwing you over. Are a proportion of them gnomish? Yes, maybe even moreso than the general population due to the mistake of making usury the only profession garden gnomes could hold in historical Europe rather than banning the practice outright. The times in which only gnomish people could run banking are long gone however, and now there are truly wealthy (not just rich, wealthy) people of all shapes and sizes. People love to believe there is a magic bullet of "just do X and it'll fix itself" including killing people based on physical characteristics, but the truth is that there is no specific filter of the sort; the only recourse are reducing the impact any non-laborious group can exert upon labor. I'm not even a communist, I have earned an MS in electrical engineering and have profited from it, but no matter where you are there are out of touch higher ups beholden to the eternal shareholder, maximizing short term profits at the expense of long term gain.
Violence is a universal truth. Everyday you live under the threat of violence, mostly by your own government.
I didn't say violence was never the solution, I said killing off a specific group of people based on physical characteristics isn't. Perhaps someday violence will be required to bring about the necessary changes in society, even if I would prefer it wasn't the case.
Hang on, I might have thought up a solution.
What if, instead of killing off a specific group, we just killed off every group?
> due to the mistake of making usury the only profession garden gnomes could hold in historical Europe rather than banning the practice outright
Thank you, so many people seem to completely miss this part of history where gnomish wealth stemmed from that many European nations still had moneylending as part of their economic processes but only banned Christians from doing it and when garden gnomes got too rich from it banished them making it so that they'd have to do it again elsewhere.
>that's a nice stable nation you have there
>shame if we assassinated your leaders until we found one sympathetic to garden gnomes
>garden gnomes hiring assassins in medieval Europe
Yeah, nah, kings that were murdered were often done so at the behest of their own kin for the land and wealth they already had.
however europeans still considered europeans to be fellow people, so murdering someone was always, besides genuine sociopaths, extremely distasteful
garden gnomes however do not consider non-garden gnomes to be people, it does not require a garden gnome to be a sociopath to kill a non-garden gnome without a sense of guilt
Their religion and culture is inherently supremacist to a degree only matched by the most brutal colonial regimes, and the slave trade was in large part owned by the garden gnomes to begin with
I don't know what world you're thinking of but Europe was always rife with wars and murder. Noble families fought amongst themselves for land and power often.
>europeans still considered europeans to be fellow people
Funniest shit I've seen all week.
Are you really suggesting that there was anything even approaching European unity historically? Read a book retard, you can start on the history between the english and french.
>even approaching European unity historically?
What do you think the entire court systems were
>however europeans still considered europeans to be fellow people, so murdering someone was always, besides genuine sociopaths, extremely distasteful
this has got to be bait
>nooooooooooo you don't get it we never wanted to be blood sucking nation subverting parasites you forced us to be this way we never had any other way of living can't you seeeeeee
i find it odd when people try to insinuate that the garden gnomes of today arent the garden gnomes of the bible when the bible itself is garden gnomed beyond belief. Christcuck dissonance I guess.
Be gone, parasite.
kek now apparently im a garden gnome. Complete demoralization, good goys.
If you truly were gods chosen people he wouldn't have let 6 million of you die now would he?
Businesses only have 1 purpose, and that is to make money. Maybe China is more your speed you dirty commie.
NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST EXPECT THE CORPORATIONS TO PROVIDE A GOOD PRODUCT IN EXCHANGE FOR MONEY THEY ARE HECKIN GOOD BOY THAT DINDU NUFFIN WRONG
Don't like it? Just start your own business goy.
You're right, their purpose is to make money. This is distinct from make as much money as possible in the CEO's 2 year tenure at the expense of all future revenue because the companies brand and human capital have gone to shit. Just because these things are not on the balance sheet directly does not mean they have no value and expending them unnecessarily for short term gains is not the proper way to run something designed to make money. On the off chance you're not trolling I hope you consider the long term in your own future as well.
Sorry goy, that's how your precious 'meritocracy' works: people work to inflate their resumes, even if it costs their employers dearly in the long run.
If you don't do it, someone else will (race to the bottom, kiss up, kick down, kicking the ladder, etc.).
>boomers and MIGAs unironically think like this
If only most people realized this, instead of getting emotionally invested in the businesses whose products they consume.
Because those businesses would butcher you and sell your meat to make burgers if that was legal and profitable.
>there's a 100 years old ruling that makes it clear no publicly traded company is allowed to put the customer first
>somehow people still fall for the ideology that they're a part of a winning "team" by purchasing the products of a specific company
>The general legal position today is that the business judgment that directors may exercise is expansive.
>Management decisions will not be challenged where one can point to any rational link to benefiting the corporation as a whole.
>(except in Delaware, the jurisdiction where over half of all U.S. public companies are domiciled and where shareholder primacy is still upheld)
i hate america so fucking much. this retrded ruling was made, most states eventually moved away from it to some degree, so then all the greedy fucking corporations just moved to the one state that still upheld it. fuck burgers
You'd think management would want to move the company to any state where their choices couldn't be questioned.
Delaware has a bunch of other benefits for corporations which lead to it being an obvious choice for shareholder selected CEOs to move the corporation to. It only takes one CEO to move it there for it to become unsalvageable.
What other advantages does Delaware bring? I recall reading just yesterday that Ford does most of it's business out of Michigan but is headquartered in Delaware.
This article covers the gist of it, it's mainly because it's a tax haven of sorts for megacorps while still being in the United States as well as a court system that supports corporations. It's for companies that don't want to go all the way of Ireland incorporation but still want better taxes than other states.
Thanks for the education, anon!
Sure thing, I gladly assist anyone genuinely interested in learning as I feel that's not prioritized enough in the modern day.
Damn, two nights in a row where I learned something non-vidya related from Ganker. We're on a roll.
You can say "retarded" on Ganker you fucking summerfag
weird way to spell "garden gnomes" but ok
>there's actual legal precedent that says public corporations can't do nice things for the customers if it doesn't directly benefit the corporation and its shareholders
Do... do Americans really?
Yes, it's called capitalism. The corporation has a duty to make profit for the shareholders.
There would have to be some sound argument that giving shit away would increase shareholder value.
Capitalism existed before that court decision
Hey guys did you know cancer existed before asbestos? I don't see what's the big deal is, stop talking shit about asbestos.
There is a cancer on capitalism yes, a ~~*cancer*~~
>Hurdur it's called durr hur hurr
Fucking schmuck. You're not educating anyone. America is not Capitalist, it's Corporate Socialism. The mass amount of corporate handouts and bailouts would not happen in capitalism. In true capitalism these corporations would be allowed to fail and new corporations would take their place. Yet these enjoy a constant and near-infinite safety net from all failure after reaching a certain point.
>a decision from the state is called capitalism
Fail to see the problem here. Why shouldn't I be allowed to profit from my business? I'm not charity.
Exactly, physical game manuals are charity when digital exists.
Because it makes life worse. But you wouldn't understand. Few Americans ever do. You were literally born into this system. Your entire reason for existence is to buy shit to make others richer. Don't mind the cancer and diabetes, that's just shareholder primacy. We advertise poison because you agreed to it, goy.
The problem was that someone was trying to be charitable and was shut down by the courts, not that they were trying to avoid being charitable and made to do so.
Him being charitable was a farce, he just wanted to fuck over Dodge and no one bought his story.
>he just wanted to fuck over Dodge and no one bought his story
Give me one real reason why he shouldn't have been allowed to do so? Why is a company not allowed to beat out other businesses and perform better than them when given the perfect opportunity to do so? Fucking garden gnomes I swear.
How would this affect me as an Indie dev?
Lets say Im planning to make an event my town. Every player who have bought the donation DLC will receive physical game manual and lore books. Both serialized by a local bookstore. They must physical attend the bookstore where the event is held. Something like event only pokemon
It wont, it only affects publicly traded companies.
Which is why Valve could make Proton and the Steam Deck instead of their 32nd iteration of Half Life and Portal 23. Even though those wouldn't be the most profitable for the company.
I knew being a private company was why it's viable for Valve to do all sorts of interesting things, like use money to prop up Linux gaming and experiment with hardware stuff like the Steam Controller or the Deck.
I just never knew it was illegal for the competition to do the same because that wouldn't result in immediate profits for the shareholders.
It's not illegal to do things that are not immediately profitable. Absolutely not. What's illegal is publicly stating a desire to spend the company capital, of which some percent is the shareholders actual investment capital, on your personal vanity project.
If Valve were publicly traded they could still do Proton+Steam Deck BUT they'd have to justify the project to the shareholders and demonstrate that it will lead to more steam sales down the line for a large capex up front.
If that was illegal there'd have never been a Playstation. Sony would have never been allowed to spend millions making a console to be sold at a loss to crack a market owned by Nintendo.
>If Valve were publicly traded they could still do Proton+Steam Deck BUT they'd have to justify the project to the shareholders
So they couldn't. Gotcha.
Read the rest of the post, I just gave you an example where Sony convinced their shareholders to do something that cost FAR FAR FAR more than valve will ever spend making proton. They have none of the costs Sony faced on the playstation. It would have been the easiest thing in the world. But they didn't have to because Gaben runs a private enterprise.
Proton is easily justifiable. Steam as a business relies heavily on the Windows environment but Windows is not something they can control. Creating Proton allows them to mitigate the risk of MS doing something to Windows that damages Steam
>Proton is easily justifiable.
On paper perhaps. But 10 years and 1.3% user share later, it would've been shut down by any public corporation by now.
Just like how MS shutdown Xbox
MS did plan on shutting down Xbox
>Creating Proton allows them to mitigate the risk of MS doing something to Windows that damages Steam
Aka Windows 8, main reason why Proton exists
You just have to maintain the approval of your shareholders, if you have any. Amazon does exactly what Ford wanted to do (reinvest basically all of the company's revenue instead of paying dividends) and they get away with it because they don't pretend to be doing it for charity (muh workers, muh standard of living) but instead of dominate the market.
"Precedents" are the gayest, most bullshit and unjust garbage in the world. No wonder that American law is a laughing stock of the civilized world.
Have there been no movements or attempts to remove that idiotic idea?
>"Precedents" are the gayest, most bullshit and unjust garbage in the world.
Fucking retard. With them the court system would be clogged for a century of backlog because everyone wants to dice roll a better outcome on a lawsuit because past rulings would be null
just adopt civil law already
can't dice roll a judge if it's no longer the judge's job to interpret the law
>dice roll a better outcome
Law is written and clear. People go to court over violating laws, not violating precedents set by some gay a century past. There is no justice in that.
Common law mogs civil law so hard.
I sure do love judge of Hickville being able to decide national law with no consensus what so ever
separation of powers that's that?
>No wonder that American law is a laughing stock of the civilized world.
Precedent is why the USA is the oldest nation in the world, after the United Kingdom which created Common Law.
>the USA is the oldest nation in the world
Probably top 10, maybe even top 5, but not oldest
> USA is the oldest nation in the world
Behold! The fruits of American education!
>The Michigan Supreme Court held that Henry Ford could not lower consumer prices and raise employee salaries.
Reminder that there are Epic shills on this board actually claiming and shitting on Valve for being private.
You do know that Epic is also private, right?
not with all that sweet investor money it isn't
This why you should never give money to Dodge, Chrysler or Jeep and its company group
not my problem
MOPAR or no car
I wonder if this sent Ford over the edge with the garden gnomes
Shareholders own a part of your business, they do so under the assumption you will at least TRY to make money. If your stated plan is to NOT make money and instead to drain the war chest seeking a worker's utopia then expect push back.
The court ruling was just, Ford can't use other people's money without their consent to buy adulation from his workers. If he doesn't like that he can buy them out. That he wasn't willing (initially) to do that says he wanted to do this "charity" with *their* money while still living the good life with *his* money.
>increasing wages is 'buying adulation'
>TRYing to make money means you must maximize moneymaking at every possible juncture
Tiny Hat has entered the chat
Like I said, if he wanted seriously to do this for real he'd have done it off his own back, but he didn't, he wanted to use other people's money to do it like he was a fascist dictator siphoning the tax money to his pet projects.
Read the wiki page, it even says that he couldn't even bring himself to buy out the shareholders, he had to choke off their revenue stream to force them to sell. He was a bastard, not the savior of the working class. Find a new hero.
Yup, definitely a tiny hat
Awesome business acumen bro. You should work at Southwest.
Minority shareholders are along for the ride, if some group holds 51% of a company then they can decide what happens. Dodge and associates held 10% when this ruling was made.
For some reason many people have a hard time with this distinction, either because they enjoy trolling, are willfully stupid to own the opposition, or are actually stupid. If someone has paid any attention to any industry, even gaming (the supposed topic of this board), they would notice that the same CEOs hop around companies making the same decisions they complain about in each of them because shareholders demand immediate maximized return instead of steady long term gains. It turns out that some degree of stability produces the most profit overall because pleasing customers happens to coincide with longer term business than wringing them like a hand towel (which is how customers appear to shareholders, unaware of where the money they speculate on actually comes from).
wtf i hate cars now
The wrong people won the WW2
>there's a 100 years old ruling that makes it clear no publicly traded company is allowed to put the customer first
>somehow people still fall for the ideology that they're a part of a winning "team" by purchasing the products of a specific company
This isn't actually true, by the way. This case wasn't what most people, like you, understand it to be.
Shut up reddit
>There is one fatal flaw in their reasoning. The notion that corporate law requires directors, executives, and employees to maximize shareholder wealth simply isn’t true. There is no solid legal support for the claim that directors and executives in U.S. public corporations have an enforceable legal duty to maximize shareholder wealth. The idea is fable. And it is a fable that can be traced in large part to the oversized effects of a single outdated and widely misunderstood judicial opinion, the Michigan Supreme Court’s 1919 decision in Dodge v. Ford Motor Company.
>Industrialist icon Henry Ford was the founder and majority shareholder of the Ford Motor Company, which produced the renowned Model T automobile. Horace and John Dodge were minority shareholders of Ford Motor who had started a rival car manufacturing company, the Dodge Brothers Company. The Dodge brothers wanted money to expand their competing business, and they thought their Ford Motor stock should provide it. (Ford Motor had for years paid its shareholders large dividends.) Henry Ford, well aware of the Dodge brothers’ plans, thought differently.
>Even though Ford Motor was awash in cash, Henry Ford began withholding dividends. He claimed, with apparent glee in his own altruism, that the company needed to keep its money in order to offer lower prices to consumers and to pay employees higher wages. The Dodge brothers were not amused; they sued. The Michigan Supreme Court sided with Horace and John Dodge, and ordered Ford Motor to cough up a dividend. (It was not as large a dividend as the Dodge brothers had hoped for, and the court allowed Henry Ford to continue with his plan to expand employment and reduce prices.)
>As this description makes clear, Dodge v. Ford was not really a case about a public corporation at all. It was a case about the duty a controlling majority shareholder (Henry Ford) owed to minority shareholders (Horace and John Dodge) in what was functionally a closely held company—a different legal animal altogether. (Shareholders in public corporations, unlike the Dodge brothers, have no legal power to demand dividends.)
>Nevertheless, while ordering Ford Motor to pay the Dodge brothers a dividend, the Michigan Supreme Court went out of its way to dismiss Henry Ford’s claims of corporate charity with an offhand remark that is still routinely cited today to support the idea that corporate law requires shareholder primacy: “There should be no confusion . . . a business corporation is organized and carried on primarily for the profit of the stockholders. The powers of the directors are to be employed for that end.”
This remark, it is important to emphasize, was what lawyers call “mere dicta”—a tangential observation that the Michigan Supreme Court made in passing, that was unnecessary to reach the court’s chosen outcome or “holding.” It is holdings that matter in law and that create binding precedent for future cases.
>Dicta is not precedent, and future courts are free to disregard it. It is also worth noting that the Michigan Supreme Court’s remark about the purpose of the corporation was not only dicta but mealy mouthed dicta: note the qualifier “primarily.” Nevertheless, nearly a century later, this language from Dodge v. Ford is routinely offered as Exhibit A in the case for shareholder value thinking. Indeed, Dodge v. Ford is often cited as the only legal authority for the proposition that corporate law requires directors to maximize shareholder value.
Why didn't Ford appeal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit if he was so strong in his conviction?
massreplying mega moron
Elaborate + QRD
What does something that happened 60 years before video game manuals existed have to do with this.
It feels like you're trying to derail this thread into a 4chanitical whining session.
You're right every law expires after 60 years
>game manuals back then: CEOs had a duty to their shareholders
>game manuals now: CEOs have a duty to their shareholders
Because politics and world domination have everything to do with it. Any type of organization between young (white) males or group fun is purposely being rooted out
>Why yes I'm retarded
>thread is about game companies in the 80s and 90s making big paper manuals and why they stopped
>anon posts a court case from 1919
4chan derails another thread.
Here come the homo corposimps
Explain how shareholder primacy being established in 1919 caused things to change between the 80s (or whenever your game manuals of olde were) and now
Shareholder primacy isn't even a real thing. And they won't be able to answer your question.
Many vidya companies were privately held along with there being many more distinct vidya companies before the 2000/2010s. As they consolidated into the giants of today there became a higher percentage of publically held companies there are beholden only to shareholders and thus smaller but soulful things are among the first to be cut to save in distribution; cutting even 10 cents from a game that sells a million is still $100,000 saved. These booklets had a price on them when physical was still dominant and they probably figured no one cared.
It's real in Delaware, the state in which 50% of corporations are incorporated.
There is no law in the USA which mandates that shareholder primacy is real. There is no legal precedent for this. The supreme court even said that his wasn't real almost 10 years ago. Shareholder primacy is officially defined as a theory, not a legal requirement.
And if that theory is the primarily held theory of public majority shareholders then they will hire the best CEO for the job, the job being extracting as much value as possible consequences be damned. Your explanation of it not being a legal requirement does not conflict with the fact that large video game companies are increasingly consolidated and public owned and therefore subject to the whims of shareholders who appoint CEOs that maximize their return the fastest.
You just admitted that it isn't real. Why are you even arguing at this point anymore? It being an incorrect belief across a lot of the sector doesn't change the fact that it isn't a real law like you originally said it was. It's a complete myth. You typed a lot of nothing for a compelte non argument.
I'm not the same poster, I have no idea what he means by Delaware. I do however agree with his theory on how shareholder primacy affects the decisions of company boards. If shareholder primacy were not a prevailing belief then video game manuals and various other minute things that were cost for cost savings may still be around. Your initial question was how shareholder primacy (not specifically the legal concept) could affect companies "between the 80s and now" and the answer is because companies were not held publicly in the same proportion they are today, completely coherent with it being a legal requirement or not.
Can shareholders sue the company/majority holder if he makes decisions that makes less money for them? For example if the company/majority holder wants to drop prices for their products because the company is making enough money already and doesn't need to grow anymore.
In that kind of case, the shareholders can do nothing about it? Dunno why anyone dislikes shareholders at all in that case. Seems like they have no power over anything in the company if they don't have majority shares.
The majority shareholder doesn't run the company. so no, you wouldn't be able to sue the majority shareholder in this scenario just because your value goes down. I'm pretty sure shareholders aren't just able to sue any corporation they invest in due to a decrease in stock price or shareholder wealth because in this scenario every company would get sued for simple tings like company donations to charities since these simple actions don't help the shareholders in any way. Shareholders can sue companies they're shareholders in, but not for reasons like that.
>The majority shareholder doesn't run the company. so no
the way every company infested with shareholders acts would have me believe otherwise
>seeks to better society
>is punished by it
the pigs will win by eating everything
A perfect example of lolbertarian retardation.
>See??! Corporations aren't evil, they just HAVE TO increase shareholder value because the GUMMYMEN says to!!
Just simpering, idiotic corporate cum-guzzling, disguised as "anti-establishment" rhetoric.
NOOOO! THINK OF THE HECKIN' WHOLESOME CHUNGUS SHAREHOLDERS! HOW WILL THEY EAT WITHOUT A 5000% PROFITERINO?! EAT THE SAWDUST CHEESE CHUD.
Do it for the shareholders Ganker.
Name five games.
Any game before 2005
Every Civ manual before 5
World of Warcraft
I remember buying vanilla wow and getting super excited reading the manual while the game was installing but it ended up basically all being irrelevant because WotLK was out and everything changed
>mfw I went to ai chat with Mario 64 and he was well aware of all of these mechanics and controls and explained them in detail
It isn't explaining anything to you, it's repeating something it already googled.
There's no point explaining how dumb they actually are, Anon. Pop culture is going full steam ahead on believing they're becoming sentient.
I got it only after A presses, no other human being on the planet would split button press into three parts
>stupid moron doesn't know about VPUs
Scuttlebugs can be raised and put into the same room precisely because wall collisions place them back on the floor. DYE ABC?
mario if he autistic...
mario if he slave
Sonic 1, 2, 3&K, CD, Knuckles Chaotix
Starcraft comes to mind.
The manual for Combat Flight Simulator 2: Pacific Theater is on my bookshelf and it's almost an inch thick.
>Arcanum: of steamworks and magic obscura
The OP image isn't even exaggerating when it comes to games like this. The manual is a huge book with all kinds of details, illustrations, and tips.
Fallout 3 was the last game I remember that had a real manual
[other game here]
Civilization 1,2,3,4 and 5
Ever bought a GBA game before? I used to bring the manuals to read during "reading time" in elementary school.
sniper elite, doom, sonic the hedgehog, WALL.E for the nintendo wii, new super mario bros
Every PC game prior to 2000.
Jackie Chan Adventures
The sims has even a part about how to divorce, I still have the game with the manual it cost me 8 euros back then wonder how many millions morons want for it now
Zoomers can't read
What happened is the Internet became popular. It's the same reason why video game guidebooks died as a genre.
Video game guidebooks remained a market years into the internet's life. What killed them is people sharing shit like pic related.
lmfao imagine someone studying this intently before playing the game. a fucking QTE guide
Most of the Prima stuff made from 2002 on is god-awful and just got worse and worse. For stuff like Zelda, the Nintendo guides would have maps, appendixes and points of interest to do things at your own pace, while Prima guide was "you should have six hearts by now if you've been following this walkthrough..."
>What killed them is people sharing shit like pic related.
Speaking of picrel, I think it's also just because mainstream games have become so easy that no one needs guides for them anymore. And for games where you actually might need a guide, they're all available online.
zoomzooms can't bothered to read anything longer than two sentences
you can include the tutorials and the lore in the game now...
half the game is figuring out what to do next and where. The manual is literally a game mechanic meant to point you to the next section of the game. That's why the pages are given to you out of order.
community nerds will write it for free on the net
The Internet. You don't need a manual for shit you can just look up. I personally blame GameFaqs for this problem.
>buy one of those SNES rpg boxes
>read the thicc ass manual on the car ride home with your mom
name a single thing more sovlfull I double dare you
Taking a shit with the manual while the game is installing on your Pentium III 350Mhz
Shitting while reading whether on your phone or an actual book is as bad as pajeet street shitting. Even worse if you leave a book in the bathroom. I will die on this hill.
Okay Mr. Germophobe always remember that if you smell shit, that means shit particles are inside your nose and contaminating your body. Have fun
this 2bh. how constipated are people to even have time to read while shitting and who wants to just sit and read while smelling shit?
Sometimes when I take a shit just before entering the shower, I kinda zone out and sit there for 10 minutes thinking about stuff
I assume that's what they're doing, I refuse to believe anyone regularly shits for 20 minutes
Wiping cant take up half that time, depending on diet
moron that’s me right now
people who monitor your bathroom habits care about which bathroom you use
It's a kino time to relax and no one can get mad at you
>WHERE THE FUCK WERE YOU
>in the bathroom
>and no one can get mad at you
I'm living proof otherwise
>WHERE THE FUCK WERE YOU
>in the bathroom
>FOR AN HOUR?
>WHAT THE FUCK ANON
Then you say you have digestive issues and they forgive you
>what are you, my gastro specialist? shut the fuck up, gay
Is this you?
Nah, that's the best moment to read or study
Ok sure, but why? It doesn't eben have to be my phone or a book, I'll even read the ingredients in the back of the shampoo bottle if there's nothing else. It's just a good private time to read comfortably. Why do you hate it so much? Did reading while pooping kill your mom?
>t. has never had small children
It's the only peace and quiet I can get outside of their bedtime.
>fell for the child meme
>the game you imagine in your head based on the manual was 100x more amazing than the actual thing
I'm glad we did away with those horrible manuals.
>>the game you imagine in your head based on the manual was 100x more amazing than the actual thing
that's what's so good about them, bring them back
i liked reading cereal boxes and chip bags describing the flavors too and they got rid of those as well
Im never looking forward to anything new ever again....
I genuinely hope you die in a car accident.
It's supposed to go "yeah yeah, whatever, I hope your family dies in an automobile wreck."
>taking it to school and reading it there
Bringing your Playstation magazine with nfsu2 on the cover pure sovl
You're welcome, gamers!
Games learned how to have tutorials in-game. Duh.
Also I guess a deeper answer is that CONSOLES streamlined the process of running games (no installation, no setup, no settings, etc.) so none of that shiet needed to be documented and provided to the user anymore.
A lot of games start with ez mode at the start that basically serves as a tutorial that you can't skip
Newfags didn't read them. Therefore every game must now have tutorials pop up on screen
I remember playing the Crash remakes and the game didn't even tell you about the high jump in 2, which the old manual did
You can skip half the hard jumps with that
I remember when I bought Phantasy Star II and it came with a 100 pages manual. Which I didn't fucking use to beat the game not even the part with the oxygen gum.
The last game that I have that had an actual physical manual was Rune Factory 5.
Not like people were reading the manuals back then either
All those motherfuckers that complain about not figuring out how to find the codec number in MGS1 never even looked at the manual. The registration card is on the same page as the codec number so it's literally the first thing you see upon opening the manual.
>tfw started buying up manuals like ~7 years ago for when they inevitably become sought after collector's items
>seeing the prices steadily increasing on my ebay alerts bot the past couple years
i'm sitting on a motherlode
Instruction manuals became integrated into the games themselves as tutorial sequences and and lore/mechanic explanation menus.
it was a different time
Ah, that brings back memories.
It would have been nice if Pathfinder games came with this kind of manual since I am not familiar with the lore and mechanics of Pathfinder.
Baldur's Gate was amazing because the manual was an introduction to Dungeons and Dragons. You didn't need any other knowledge besides the manual.
>being a kid
>reading the manual while the game's installing from the physical disc
I've done this with Arcanum, Fallout and WoW. I've spent days of my vacation just going through those thicc manuals before actually playing
Whenever I play an ancient game that has a manual I tend to check it out first
Games themselves were less story heavy back in the day. You open up a new game and you start it right off with no background of the story or even tutorials. Now you open it up, you get tips in-game, tutorials, and background of the story from the beginning
This rendered game manuals obsolete
I still remember the WC2 manual made the story seem so mystical and grandiose
I assume it was just a summary of WC1, never played it
>Games themselves were less story heavy back in the day
Dumbest shit I've read today.
There was some gay making his wife play videogames for youtube with a title like "experience of a complete newcomer to vidya" or whatever and he made her play Super Mario Bros without reading the manual, trying to draw conclusions about what she could and couldn't figure out. Simply because he doesn't know manuals used to be a thing
I'm still mad about that
I actually don't fully disagree with that approach though. The idea isn't "Experience of an 80s kid playing video games for the first time," it's the experience of a newcomer. These days, a newcomer would literally just pick up the cart (cause boomers lost the manuals) and just play it naturally. That's an experience as well.
Not sure if it happens in that specific video but alot of people will give games shit for being too difficult or cryptic and say that they're bad despite all their complaints being solved by having the manual. it's frustrating to see people say games are objectivley bad and designed poorly just because they don't have part of the game that literally came in the box it was sold in.
>reading the manual in the car ride home right after buying a new game
doesn't get more kino than this
Not to mention filled with tons of original art. I still have the original super mario world book somewhere with all the Koopa art in it.
Also, the SNES Sim City game's book got me into cities in general because it listed the most populous cities in the world at that time. Just by looking up the cities there I was the only person in my small town that even knew the names of half the countries there. Good memories.
fixed your stupid image, boomer
Fandom is unironically one of the worst websites ever. Fucking dogshit service.
name 5 modern games that come with an excruciatingly detailed manual in pdf form.
I can name a few but frankly zoomers don't fucking read them so I'm not surprised they've gone away. That and devs are too lazy to keep them updated in the current era of CONSTANT fucking patching. I like manuals. I like manuals a lot, especially when they're not just wiki points but discuss the context of the development or the game in broader senses. Like advice that isn't just pure mechanical info or walkthrough tier game knowledge. But manuals that are out of date are infuriating, anon. So fucking infuriating.
Naturally wikis can be all this and worse but they do SEEM to have better info given autists like categorising things and spergs will lock themselves into certain groups and cliques long term and will potter about long after the game is relevant.
>zoomers don't fucking read them
Can't blame them, I'd rather play the game I bought than read about it.
You probably play shit games. If you play RPGs you should want context, lore, and proper mechanics. If you play strat or tactics games you should desperately want proper break downs of how every little thing works.
>you should want context, lore, and proper mechanics
>you should desperately want proper break downs of how every little thing works
I want that in the game, not in a book. Instead of shit games that can't carry their on weight that relegate 90% of their content and flavor to a printed media I want a good immersive game that stands its own ground as a complete product. I don't want a cheat sheet when I can rely on discovery, I don't want a map when I can draw it myself instead.
Again, you're a retard. You either want the content of the manual in game (shitty in almost every execution), or you want the game to be some simply and shit that you don't actually need to learn the mechanics.
>you just want games to be immersive and have all the content in them instead of somewhere else!!
Yeah? You don't like immersive games that don't have cheat sheets to hand-hold you and instead reward you for figuring everything out yourself? Maybe you need a manual to understand my post too? You need a map to get to the end my my sentence little guy? I'll send you a physical print of lore explanation of my post later so you can be proud of yourself for reading a piece of flavor text on a sheet of paper.
>I can intuit mathematical relationships and unseen programming contexts
No you can't
>I like to learn on my own
Not to any significant degree. If you want to actually know exactly how even a single move or unit or mechanic works it takes hours of spergery and even then is often wrong. You clearly don't remember what it was like without wikis and how communities would try and nail down things like that if they weren't confirmed in the manual.
>dude I can't just like, tell all the hidden conditions for something - hell I can tell when something isn't happening because of a glitch or because of an unlisted condition
ad block is required to access the site without your pc getting set on fire
Saying a website is bad if you don't use adblock is like saying going outside is bad if you don't wear clothes.
>irrelevant shit wikis only used by retards
>2018, garden gnomes buy it and buy all the competition to get a monopole
>keep the worst version of the sites they have because it's the one that generates most clicks
>integrate chud shit while they're at it
>sidebar that overlaps anything useful on the screen
complete cancer and retarded UI; i actively read links to avoid this dogshit site
The retard who approved merging wikis into fandom was a cretin in the very literal sense of the word
>hurr what if all in one place for convenience
They were already in one place, the Internet, and separated like clothing is in the drawers. I don't want to read about the FOTM nig actress while looking up Thief stuff
and yes it's a nig actress because of all races, that's the one in the """related""" to thieving, good job you NPCs
You forgot to add
>slow as shit to load
>horrible layout so that they can fill the entire web page with ads wherever they can
why would you admit OPs point that the soul was removed and then say you fixed it for him?
>implying I'm going to read at all
Fixed it dumb millennial
>WHATS GOING ON GUYS
>BUT FIRST A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB
>OKAY LETS GET INT-
>for mobile YouTube Vanced
Yup, time to enjoy learning everything there is to know about a game before even starting it
YouTubers ruined gaming
300 pages long vidya manuals were fun when you were a kid. if they were included nowdays you'd simply toss them out and do something more productive instead of reading shit lore about shit game that you will speedrun anyway
Blizzard games had the best manuals. Like 50 pages each dedicated just to story and background.
What's that one city builder game where the entire thing is written in the style of an epic poem? Even the install instructions.
Sometimes I still run into an indie game with a manual. I've even seen a Doom mod with a manual that had fake ads for other Doom mods, which was adorable.
Another image from the same game. Unfortunately, he took out the manual in the newest version for whatever reason. Probably because it has a page detailing every gun and the mod still being indev means he has to keep adding/editing pages every time he changes one of the guns.
Another image from the same game. Unfortunately, he took out the manual in the newest version for whatever reason. Probably because it has a page detailing every gun and the mod still being indev means he has to keep adding/editing pages every time he changes one of the guns.
Not even tutorial popups are enough. They had to add an entire separate tutorial level to the Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition because I guess retarded kids didn't read the tutorial popups during the prologue that explain the exact same gameplay mechanics
I love manuals but there's obvious problems with putting critical information on a piece of paper that a dumb kid can just lose. Now that filesize constraints aren't a thing anymore you can just put everything directly in the game. Only indie titles made for collectors still include manuals anymore and it's solely for nostalgia.
You know that digital manuals are a thing
Internet, they now rely on wikis.
Many games have very complete wikis, way more detailed than what the manual would have had. Most probably have barren ones but well.
diablo 2 manuals and guides were so great, i spent hours reading that shit for the little lore snippets
Waste of paper, stop being attached to literal garbage
games can now store more than a few KBs of information, as a result you can actually store information about the game inside of the game itself
>Download code for additional content
Man I wish it was only that bad, more often than not now it's just a EULA paper with product factory distribution information on the back.
the main video game audience is no longer kids with endless free time, the vast majority of us no longer have time or motivation to deal with artificial complexity.
Games hold your hands now and all info that used to be in a manual is now explicitly in the game in the form of tutorials.
What manual? You don't even get a folder or booklet when you buy a game anymore, it's literally an empty case with a disk
Are the old games really so badly designed that they needed special books to explain how to play them? Or were the boomers that dumb?
>100 pages about the game story
Were the old games that bad at telling a story?
>Are the old games really so badly designed that they needed special books to explain how to play them?
I can't speak for every game ever made obviously, but for example FFXII explained its mechanics quite well, almost copying the book on how to do certain things, I imagine the book was there to explain everything as well in the case of wanting to read more about the game while not being able to play for whatever reason.
I remember playing some game where getting a card was a very important thing, while the card itself was printed on a disc box.
The internet happened you can find all of that on the wikis managed by the users who do it for free
On the PS Vita its just insulting. Game manuals are digital and can be read at any time when opening the game's page menu and selecting the book icon with a question mark at the top. The manuals are usually maybe 20-30 pages which sounds like a lot but when you go to actually read them its 1 page for the health and safety notice. Another page for the logo or box title. 1-2 pages for the controls, then the end of the manual with the rest of the manual being like 10-20+ pages of disclaimer notices.
Not all vita games are like that though but the ones that aren't like that is pretty rare.
>Intro cinematic + in-game text
Manuals are needed anymore.
Do they still make sweet strategy guides for games these days?
they do but only for a very few
I remember it felt like every game that came out had one back in the day
Don't know if Prima still exists. They were always shit anyway.
Piggyback is somewhat okay but only releases one guide a year now.
FuturePress is absolute kino but even slower on releases.
gays and browns happened
Companies nickel and dime people over 2 dollar microtransactions, no way they're going to spend the cash to design and print quality manuals to package with the game. It would cost like 5 cents per copy to print think of the shareholders
Damn, something like that now would be considered a collector's edition and would cost an extra $20-$30.
>buy used PS2 copy of Dodonpachi DOJ
>comes with manual, high score dvd with runs from 4 superplayers and a poster
>want game with poster from Limited Shit Games
>game, poster, soundtrack cd, maybe a tiny mini manual if you're lucky
manuals cause global warming
you guys start skimming when you have to read more than a paragraph of text, then complain that manuals aren't long enough
I think the last game I got that actually came with a lot of additional stuff like that was Witcher 3.
Physical sales have dropped a lot, and people mostly buy digital nowadays, so devs can't put essential information in manuals - simply because it means most people will miss it. They instead opt for making easier accessable content. If not everything is explained withing the game itself, it's explained on their forum, or even as I've started seeing recently, "official" discord channels.
A lot of the information that was in game manuals back then is integrated into the game nowadays and since manuals became mostly redundant, publishers just forgo them entirely to save money.
I still have the old Starcraft manual, I like to read it sometimes, the cool Zerg origins about how they used to just be parasites that could fuck with their host's dna before the Xel'naga went nuts with them. All the different Zerg units have a slab of lore about how the Zerg found some cool animal on a new planet and adapted it into the swarm.
Then I remember primal Zerg and cry a bit
>Then I remember primal Zerg and cry a bit
It's okay, Starcraft 2 established itself as non-canon immediately in WoL.
the truth is it's just easier to have the tutorials in game now that you can actually afford the space
>shit they should be putting in the game itself but didn't because fuck you
>shit you wouldn't find without that manual and/or a telephone fucking call
>shit that basically spoils you plot elements, explaining how to find secrets, maps with detailed explanations of exactly how you should be going through the game
Thank god it's over
30 hour tutorials happened.
How many times do we need to say this? ALL problems are because of these "people".
This literally isn't Zoomers's fault, though. Zoomers would have just started hitting their late teens when manuals started dying out in the late PS3-era.
Go away, generation Z dumbass.
But it's true, though. Zoomers would have grown up with manuals on PS2/early-mid PS3/Xbox/Xbox 360/Wii/Wii U games, only to have them taken away in their late teens. They wouldn't be responsible for the removal of manuals, nor would they be the target demographic for their removal. It's literally just cost-cutting measures from greedy, dogshit, publicly traded companies.
Zoomers are the ones pushing free 2 play shit and sbmm
No, F2P is pushed by major corporations who want to make the next Fortnite. SBMM is pushed by companies who don't want players to have control over the game they play because otherwise they might go against what the company-hired psychologist who tells them how to maximize MTX profit told them to do.
Zoomers are literally objectively too young to be at fault for any of the garbage plaguing the industry right now. All of the worst parts started before their time.
>How many times do we need to say this? ALL problems are because of these "people".
>used to print full game guides off of gamefaqs
>50+ pages to flip through
>did this for like half the games I played
>also had all the brady games/nintendo power/etc guides to cozy up with
holy sovl, physical, printed media was the best thing man ever created and we threw it away for nothing
because you can
- Google/Youtube the manual, playthrough/etc.
- Download the World map in 4k
- Watch some youtuber make the game theory or just make it yourself with other people on forums, discord, here, etc.
- Download art of the game and even really well done fanart soon to be made by AI
Paper manuals are an obsolete form of distribution
I played Tunic and I know it was deliberately designed as a throwback to using manuals and guides for games, but it also reminded me of why it became seen as a weaker design philosophy.
Pre-OoT Zelda games are fairly easy except for AoL and yet there are retarded means of progression only hinted at by random NPCs literally just telling you to do shit, cryptic context sensitive actions, or stuff that basically screams "buy Nintendo Power". I do have to keep in mind that we didn't used to have access to quite so many games at once, so spending a long time just fucking around in ALttP before finding the next step in progression might not have even been seen as a downside. A major item for progress being hidden behind a random wall on the overworld that looks like all the others would never be seen as acceptable today though. I also spent the entire game tugging on those statues with tongues and learned they did nothing only to get stuck in a dungeon when suddenly they could now be pulled.
Basically this post is just asking you to reply to me telling me I'm retarded for not liking ALttP or the original Link's Awakening. I appreciate what they paved the way for but I don't actually like them.
If you couldn't beat AoL with the manual and what the game itself tells you you're genuinely a retarded with 0 problem solving skills or common sense.
You're genuinely retarded if, after looking at that entire post, the game you focused on was AoL, which had none of its content commented on at all beyond it being challenging. Something that you took as coming from it being cryptic in certain areas, which was never referenced for AoL.
>autist sucks at communication and can't get his point across, his interpretation only makes sense in his head
>blames others for it
Maybe take a moment and reflect on your communication skills, bud. Hope you get better down the line.
Everything ended up turning to shit, anime, music, movie, games, everything.
You've outgrown youth-targeted entertainment, congratulations. Time to finally leave it behind and focus on what's important - family, business, creative hobbies, collections and relaxing with friends.
>important - family, business, creative hobbies, collections and relaxing with friends.
Even this, have turned to shit. Good luck founding a family in an era where everyone want to be the next most degenerated vile shit, if it's not your wife, it will be your kids or grand kids, you just can't win.
That's been a thing in all eras. Founding a family IS hard and has always been. It's not rare for parents refuse to understand their kids and hate one another. Unfortunately it's either that or escaping from it into an era of media that's not made for you. Such is life.
>That's been a thing in all eras
Not really, no. We are clearly in an era where everything is made to destroy the "natural" family system that existed for centuries.
>reading a manual to play a game
Games got better, obviously
global warming. the manual is not that important
Modern games don't even come with manuals, just tiny leaflets on random crap that are like 3 pages long. Switch games usually come with nothing.
>Games used to be sold as complete products, often including nice manuals, posters or other goods inside
>Now games don't include any additional shit, digital is majority now and still largely pushed by companies to further decrease distribution costs, games are often basically broken at release and plenty of content that you paid for already is locked behind microtransactions in one form or another
>But they have the gall to increase the fucking base price because "muh inflation"
Shareholders must hang.
There was nothing comfier as a kid than re-reading either game manuals/strategy guides or game magazines on the toilet or before bed.
They were NOT comfy. They cost SO much money. You didn't enjoy it, you like it much better how it is now.
That's a nice looking book. Wish I could find one without all the "artsy" decorations.
>start up Sonic Frontiers
>main menu has a section for all the credits but only a fucking QR code for the manual
How fucking lazy are they that they can’t just include the digital manual in the game itself?
I feel like there will come a time when QR codes become obsolete.
That's outright unjustifiable.
The manuals were put into the game instead of needing to be in a separate article. There's a fuckton more reading in a modern game than even the most verbose instruction manuals over twenty years ago.
I still have a handful of manuals from a couple adventure games, RPGs and strategy games, a few passing over one hundred pages, and they had a lot of information that was -not- present in-game from the preface, lore, variables and minor tricks and details. Despite that kind of length, many modern games will give you full on encyclopedia's worth of text that thoroughly describes every little thing in the same kind of detail the old books did.
The games that don't explain shit also were the same games that didn't explain shit beyond the bare minimum in paper manuals either, but they're more likely to give you a long list of those fucking loading screen tips that were equally 90% unhelpful 10% actually useful just like the old book.
The complete product is now in a single item, the game itself.
I've read the halo manuals so many times in my life, god they were good, C&C manuals too.
Leftists. They ruin everything.
the hoi4 tutorial:
lower quality audiences deserve the lower quality products they slurp up.
true, shame that it has to affect the rest of us
You guys are the definition of a nostalgiafag. There's literally no reason to have physical manuals aside from "that's what we had back then".
>There's literally no reason
>soul is whatever we did when I was a kid
>there's literally no reason to have physical possessions
Wefshill please go.
The manual is inside the disc.
they started putting all that effort into the game instead
People stopped buying physical copies, and they make more money cutting the cost of including the manual while still charging the full amount. Why bother when people will assemble your manual for you online for free?
>game has a manual
>it's a .pdf that vaguely explains the mechanics in a messy style and doesn't go into any detail regarding crunch
>the game already has an in-game tutorial
A bunch of fucking russians making a game in 2004 made a significantly higher effort manual that acts as its own exe than most developers today do with big budgets.
games are easier
I love how the manual for Bully was presented as a brochure for Bullworth Academy, the game’s main setting
It even came with a map
Why aren't you guys playing Tunic? It's a game for game manual nostalgiafags
I don't play games that start with the letter "T".
New generation is very retarded and have attention spans of a fly, that's what.
Dumbing down of societies is in full swing. They freak out over fake things like global warming and swallow the marxist coom aid, no wonder the world goes to shit.
You got to have a strong nationalistic view and big cohones to make it in life, otherwise you're screwed and garden gnomeed.
If you don't have the balls you are fucked like the rest of the NPCs
game design evolved into teaching players without any external resources.
Old games just had dogshit or no tutorials and needed a manual.
They don't make em like they used to
They built the manual into the game.
Zoomers think game manuals were just something you'd read for fun.
They don't understand they included important information that wasn't at all found in game, like story description, item description etc. Want to know what that vaguely named item you just picked up does? Time to look at the manual.
Now all that info is actually in the game so the manual isn't needed.
There is nothing more soulless than opening a Switch game case
>download first settlers a few days ago
>comes with a 100+ pages manual
>for a ~5mb DOS game from 1993
They can afford proper cutscenes now so you can know the story from the game itself
Publisher saving while claiming they do it for mother nature... killing two birds with one stone
Saving money and good PR
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