Sega throwing in random eldritch horrors for bosses in every game for 10 years was lamer >Sonic adventure 1&2 >shadow the hedgehog >Sonic 06 >Sonic Unleashed
Thats not even including the other unheard of games they released back then
>Listen kid, the series was always better when the cast was just Sonic and Eggman. Tails and Knuckles were already stretching it. You and Sonic's friends need OUT of this franchise
This was the opinion of the average "hardcore gaemer" on the internet from 2006-2012, and SEGA decided to pander to them exclusively until Frontiers released. Even funnier was that this group didn't even play Sonic, hence why you had Game Informer giving Sonic 4 Episode 1 an 8 while it gave Gens a 6.5.
Adventure-era zoomers are probably the most anti-journo group in existence
Sega throwing in random eldritch horrors for bosses in every game for 10 years was lamer >Sonic adventure 1&2 >shadow the hedgehog >Sonic 06 >Sonic Unleashed
Thats not even including the other unheard of games they released back then
It wasn't lame, it just got predictable. >Eggman tampers with powers beyond his control >he gets a big upper-hand against Sonic >Sonic wins >finale unlocks >powers outside Eggman's control turn on him/steal the spotlight >Sonic goes Super and saves the day
The stories Sonic Team wanted to write didn't work with having Eggman as the big finale boss fight at the time. This is especially prevalent in Lost World and Forces, where a Zeti and Infinite finales would've worked leagues better respectively had they not tied themselves to the "Solo Sonic" and "Eggman-only" formula
Infinite works as not being the final boss because he's supposed to be a loser and only uses the ruby and the mask to hide the fact that he is a loser.
>This was the opinion of the average "hardcore gaemer" on the internet from 2006-2012
It was the opinion of most Sonic fans of the time as well, hence why S4E1 was marketed the way it was (i.e. proudly declaring that the game was Sonic-only).
Funnily, the hardcore fans ended up showing more interest in Colors over 4, while casual audiences showed more interest in 4 over Colors, the exact opposite of Iizuka's intentions. Then after making bank on S4E1, Sega lost said causal audience's attention by waiting around two years before releasing 4's next episode, fricking themselves over.
S4E2 being a financial disappointment in relation to S4E1 almost kept Mania form being made, because Sega figured audiences were no longer interested.
>Funnily, the hardcore fans ended up showing more interest in Colors over 4, while casual audiences showed more interest in 4 over Colors, the exact opposite of Iizuka's intentions.
Sonic 06 wasn't a reboot in a traditional sense. It's was meant to be like DBZ was to DB or Shippuden from Naruto or mainly how Adventure era was for classics.. A fresh start but with the lore of the games before it.
>They rebooted the franchise without actually calling it a reboot in 2010
Is that why the game they released in 2011 served as a giant callback to every mainline game released before that point?
>It was GOING to be a reboot, then it bombed
Colors did the exact opposite of "bomb". Colors was also originally supposed to be a Generations port until they turned the project into its own game (kind of like what happened with 06's port turning into Secret Rings), it was never intended as a reboot.
The Sonic Boom branch was initially envisioned as a western-focused reboot, but was relegated to spinoff status later in production.
06 was never "retconned". A major point of that game's ending is the implication that Sonic remembers everything that happened.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That doesn't really change what Gens did. The time eater fricks with the timeline not memories. And somehow brought a timeline that should be erased back into existsence.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's not really retconning, that's Sonic Team going "let's throw in the fire city from this game because we don't really give a shit."
Generations barely has a plot in the first place.
There was no "second reboot" you ape.
The only time the series was close to being rebooted before Boom was with 06, which would have been more of a soft-reboot, if anything.
They got bored of having the same final boss every game. Then they got bored of having a different final boss every game. Now they're back to being bored of having the same final boss every game.
It definitely takes influence from the 2000s games.
The whole game is one big memberberry, even more than Generations or Mania. Of course they'd make the final boss reminiscent of the "good ol' days" too
The trope of eggman getting buttfricked by his minions is still going strong. Unleashed had not-chaos, generations had time eater, entire plot of lost world is that deadly six takes over control of eggman's robots until very end, mania had heavies, and while I didn't play frontier, it seems like there's still some monster in the end too. So, realistically, only game where eggman really is final boss in all senses is colors, and even then, ds version had homie mother wisp. Ah, there's also forces, which wikipedia doesn't even list in main article, so I forgot about it.
>only game where eggman really is final boss in all senses is colors
Ok, but every game after Colors sans frontiers Eggman is still the final boss.
They got bored of having the same final boss every game. Then they got bored of having a different final boss every game. Now they're back to being bored of having the same final boss every game.
It definitely takes influence from the 2000s games.
With SA1, SA2 it made sense. Eggman is absent for virtually all of Heroes too with Metal Sonic masquerading as him. It was only after that point with 06 and Unleashed where it was actually felt hamfisted.
>Ok, but every game after Colors Eggman is still the final boss
>games after colors >generations >lost world >mania >forces >frontier
>games with eggman as final boss >lost world >forces
>games with weekly monster as final boss >generations >mania >frontier
I'd like to add an amusing observation of my own. Of those games, the former group is consistently disliked, while latter is consistently liked. Obviously there's just five games to pick from, but I still find it funny.
Both of those aren't even true, eggman pilots generations so it's him and Mania has him directly involved in the final battle so really it's just frontiers
I have been thinking about playing Sonic games since I'm autistic as frick, but it's a bit daunting how there are like gazillion games on different platforms and the story seems to gotten rebooted every couple of games.
What are the most essential Sonic games I should get?
Start with Sonic 2 (many people make the mistake of starting with Sonic 1 and get immediately filtered by the lack of spin dash, harder difficulty, and more emphasis on platforming) then play 3 & Knuckles, CD is optional because it's a more contentious pick like Sonic 1. After that play both Adventure games. They're a bit clunky but still have quite a few great moments and the Sonic gameplay in both is still arguably the best true 3D Sonic gameplay experience. After that do a frickton of skipping and go straight to the boost era with Sonic Colors, which takes the positives of Unleashed but removes the tedious Werehog. Then play Generations which is like Colors but with much better level design and less emphasis on wisps. After that play Mania for a refreshing 2D throwback before heading into Frontiers which in spite of it's shortcomings is still much better than anything Sonic Team has made since Generations.
You can mess with other titles in between as well but that's the smoothest way to play through the main series. As far as story and lore goes. Don't worry about it, the fans care about it way more than Sonic Team does and you'll just get frustrated trying to piece it all together.
The genesis games, adventure 1 and 2, colors, mania, frontiers
Unleashed if you have a good enough computer to emulate it on xenia for stable framerates and can mod out the shitty battle music.
Honorable mentions go to sonic CD, advance 1 and 2, the rush series, colors ds (different from wii version) and sonic battle
Aside from the adventure games the story in sonic has literally never mattered dont think to hard about it
Ditch Colors off that list and replace it with Gen. Everything good gameplay wise in colors is better in Generations and all of the trash story problems are lesser in Generations.
Nah i think colors is good enough on its on. One game being better doesnt invalidad another. Otherwise the only 2d games anyone would ever recommend are s3&k and mania. Beside generations is bogged down hard by classic sonic, i dont think those stages hold up well at all
I have been thinking about playing Sonic games since I'm autistic as frick, but it's a bit daunting how there are like gazillion games on different platforms and the story seems to gotten rebooted every couple of games.
What are the most essential Sonic games I should get?
Black person it was the first game that demonstrated the boost mechanic in 2d and was one of the only good (if not the best) boost games in the series. I could not give two shits about Blaze you reddit spacing muttoid.
Soft reboot to de-escalate the scope of the story
Like when Pokemon got out of their phase of making the villains "I want to use a god of creation to commit genocide"
>all managed to get away
Yet you can hear them cheering after the battle with perfect chaos. It's fine though, weird aspects like that are why I enjoy SA1's story. Same with SA2.
>all managed to get away
Yet you can hear them cheering after the battle with perfect chaos. It's fine though, weird aspects like that are why I enjoy SA1's story. Same with SA2.
?si=OxUj6-3KLF16sKKV
I love this cute little autist so much
Tails, the entire city was just decimated by what amounts to a massive tsunami. 80% of the city is dead, and those that remain are homeless and completely destitute. I wanna smack the shit out of you for saying something so fricking moronic.
>all managed to get away
Yet you can hear them cheering after the battle with perfect chaos. It's fine though, weird aspects like that are why I enjoy SA1's story. Same with SA2.
[...]
[...]
?si=OxUj6-3KLF16sKKV
I love this cute little autist so much
I don't know if you know this, but everything that happened with Sonic in the 2010s was the result of people complaining for years about the franchise's decline in quality & the series straying too far away from it's roots and contrary to what Adventure/Dark Age fanboys think, it wasn't just reviewers complaining about it, it was fans who've been with the series since the beginning complaining about it.
>False. Everyone loves edge sonic
People do now, but tell that to people in the 2000s. Sonic only started being dark & serious because it was following industry trends in order to stay relevant. Hell Sonic's redesign in Adventure was done to make him look less cute & more badass, because people at the time were starting to gravitate towards more badass looking heroes.
>False. Everyone loves edge sonic
People do now, but tell that to people in the 2000s. Sonic only started being dark & serious because it was following industry trends in order to stay relevant. Hell Sonic's redesign in Adventure was done to make him look less cute & more badass, because people at the time were starting to gravitate towards more badass looking heroes.
And then we all realize that it was a completely wasted effort since what came after strayed even further. The gameplay was dumbed down to a degree where its almost unrecognizeable with Sonic not even curling into a ball anymore which even fricking 06 had, the characters being completely rewritten and butchered especially with this push of the "Core 4". >the series straying too far away from it's roots
It was less this and more it strayed away from what people believed Sonic was. Actually ask any of these people what Sonic was back in the day and you'd realize how off base all of their claims are in hindsight which is why we've seen the franchise completely morph into this more homogenized, generic slop franchise.
with Sonic the main character, Tails the young sidekick, Knuckles the hotheaded rival and Amy the girl.
The real problem was that they were trying to juggle the "orignal spirit" of Sonic in handheld content with the newer direction on main consoles but Sonicgays are insufferably autistic and shit can only ever go one way
The real issue is that Sonic isn't anything. It's a fricking mess of a franchise that's had an identity crisis since its inception. It can't decide what it wants to be.
Because the fanbase is harshly split between those who want a silly cartoon about a blue hedgehog and those who want a serious shonen.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, and SEGA caused that
3 months ago
Anonymous
Meaning whatever they do it will never satisfy everyone, is what I mean.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The people who want silly cartoon antics aren’t real fans. Sonic always was a shonen.
3 months ago
Anonymous
"Shonen" doesn't mean anything.
Shonen - Manga aimed at preteen+ boys.
Shojo - Manga aimed at preteen+ girls.
Seinen - Manga aimed at adult men.
Josei - Manga aimed at adult women.
These are demographics, not genres. They have nothing to do with the content, they only define who the work is aimed at.
3 months ago
Anonymous
There are shonen manga cliches though. Things like super forms or rivals becoming allies after they get beaten which Sonic follows.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Rent A Girlfriend is a shonen and it has none of that
Those are tropes/cliches of the action genre, not of shonen (which is literally anything aimed at young boys)
3 months ago
Anonymous
Of course it does. The protagonist turns into super cuck form.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>They have nothing to do with the content, they only define who the work is aimed at.
Why do you think they are aimed at specific groups?
Because of the content, baka.
Or presentation...
3 months ago
Anonymous
"well ackshually"
It's a colloquialism. We know shonen is a demographic. When people describe anything as "shonen" it usually means it follows a particular through line and has particular aspects that warrant it falling under that category.
And people keep telling me that the autism only came from Adventuregays
3 months ago
Boco
Sonic was based on Felix the fricking cat. Everything you posted was added in sequels simply because someone at Sonic Team is a weeb. It doesn't change what the first game was.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>someone at Sonic Team is a weeb
Sonic team is a Japanese branch. A Weeb is a non Japanese person who wanks off Japan & hates their own culture & race. It doesn't mean ''anime fan.''
3 months ago
Anonymous
Can you really call Sonic Team weebs if they're Japanese themselves?
Also, shit like Super Sonic debuted way before Dragon Ball was even relevant in the west.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Adding on to this, Sonic was always played straight in those games. There was very little, if any comedy at all. Designs be damned, they carried themselves in a straightforward manner. AoSTH was when the slapstick cartoon stuff appeared.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Sonic was always played straight in those games. There was very little, if any comedy at all.
They're mascot platformer games with very little focus on storytelling, of course there isn't going to constant, in-your-face attempts at humor.
But it's not like the developers weren't aware that they were making games about cartoon animals fighting robots with big googly eyes. Eggman's main plan in 2 and 3 involves a Death Star ripoff with a giant mustache plastered on the front. Sonic's signature animation of the time was looking straight at the player and gesturing towards a non-existant watch. Sonic 3 has a specific cutscene near the end that makes Knuckles look like an idiot.
The IP's cartoonish nature has always been inherent. To act like it has no place whatsoever is just silly.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>But it's not like the developers weren't aware that they were making games about cartoon animals fighting robots with big googly eyes.
That doesn't mean they were portrayed as self-aware and tongue in cheek. >Eggman's main plan in 2 and 3 involves a Death Star ripoff with a giant mustache plastered on the front.
Typical Japanese visual comedy. The Death Egg was played completely straight, no "LOL HIS FACE IS ON IT XD" >Sonic's signature animation of the time was looking straight at the player and gesturing towards a non-existant watch.
Not even comedic, that just shows Sonic's character, he hates waiting. >Sonic 3 has a specific cutscene near the end that makes Knuckles look like an idiot.
That wasn't him being stupid, just shortsighted. >The IP's cartoonish nature has always been inherent.
There's a difference between cartoonish and zany/comedic/funny. Sonic's artstyle is cartoony. But the story and setting are all played completely straight. It presents itself in a manner that's meant to be taken seriously.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>That doesn't mean they were portrayed as self-aware and tongue in cheek.
Do we need to touch on the toe-tapping animation again? >Typical Japanese visual comedy. The Death Egg was played completely straight
A space station having a giant mustache on the front isn't something "played completely straight". There was nothing keeping the developers from just making a regular, non-parody space station. They were just having fun with a goofy character like Eggman. >Not even comedic
It's a blatant fourth-wall break, i.e. another example of the dev team having fun with their characters. >That wasn't him being stupid, just shortsighted.
I said it made him look like an idiot, which it did. Yet another example of the devs having non-serious fun. >There's a difference between cartoonish and zany/comedic/funny.
There really isn't, you just want to argue semantics because you take the IP more seriously than its own developers ever did. >the story and setting are all played completely straight. It presents itself in a manner that's meant to be taken seriously.
Again, there's barely any focus on storytelling in these games in the first place. If they put more focus on including cutscenes then no doubt the developers probably would have included more attempts at comedy, just like already they did in Sonic 3 with the Knuckles example I gave.
This isn't a black-and-white "Sonic can either be serious or non-serious" discussion. It can be both. It's already been both. Wake up.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Do we need to touch on the toe-tapping animation again?
Again, that is Sonic's personality visualized, someone impatient or hates waiting will tap their foot. >A space station having a giant mustache on the front isn't something "played completely straight".
In-universe, it is. No one is laughing at the Death Egg's face, they're scared shitless of it and it spawned a bunch of robots when you saw it rise up in the air at Sky Sanctuary. >It's a blatant fourth-wall break, i.e. another example of the dev team having fun with their characters.
You could spin it that way, and it also showcases Sonic's character, something that was a big deal at the time compared to Mario standing statically. >There really isn't, you just want to argue semantics because you take the IP more seriously than its own developers ever did.
Don't project. I'm going by what I see when I played those games. Everyone pushing the whole 'cartoon hedgehog fights wacky scientist' shtick comes from a particular sector of the fanbase that shall not be named. The Sonic games on the Genesis and even Gamegear were not comedic romps, they were straightforward stories. >Again, there's barely any focus on storytelling in these games in the first place.
The game is the story. It doesn't need to beat you with an obvious explanation of what's going, you see what's going on. There's no slapstick or goofiness, it's all a straightforward story. >This isn't a black-and-white "Sonic can either be serious or non-serious" discussion. It can be both. It's already been both.
So why are you being so anal about me calling the classic games straightforward? You don't think that being played straight means dramatic and edgy, do you?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>That doesn't mean they were portrayed as self-aware and tongue in cheek.
Do we need to touch on the toe-tapping animation again? >Typical Japanese visual comedy. The Death Egg was played completely straight
A space station having a giant mustache on the front isn't something "played completely straight". There was nothing keeping the developers from just making a regular, non-parody space station. They were just having fun with a goofy character like Eggman. >Not even comedic
It's a blatant fourth-wall break, i.e. another example of the dev team having fun with their characters. >That wasn't him being stupid, just shortsighted.
I said it made him look like an idiot, which it did. Yet another example of the devs having non-serious fun. >There's a difference between cartoonish and zany/comedic/funny.
There really isn't, you just want to argue semantics because you take the IP more seriously than its own developers ever did. >the story and setting are all played completely straight. It presents itself in a manner that's meant to be taken seriously.
Again, there's barely any focus on storytelling in these games in the first place. If they put more focus on including cutscenes then no doubt the developers probably would have included more attempts at comedy, just like already they did in Sonic 3 with the Knuckles example I gave.
This isn't a black-and-white "Sonic can either be serious or non-serious" discussion. It can be both. It's already been both. Wake up.
Gonna back anon up on >A space station having a giant mustache on the front isn't something "played completely straight"
It absolutely is. A series that takes itself seriously will show you something ridiculous that should break your suspension of disbelief like a giant robot with a moustache on its face, and then have the characters who live in the universe act like and treat it as the existential threat that it is. It lets the comedy come from the fact that YOU think the very serious threat looks silly if you choose to take it that way. A cartoon will mock the fact that the robot looks silly in order to ease tension and show that you are meant to laugh. See also: The difference between AoSTH and SatAM's portrayals of Sonic, VS the OVA's portrayal. The former are cartoons born of the western interpretations, the later is true to the actual tone the series had from the start. We only got cartoon writing in the games starting with Colors.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>It absolutely is.
Not necessarily. You can have characters respond to something in-universe a certain way while still blatantly intending it to be seen as a joke on the audience's part. That's the whole shtick of something like Evil Dead 2.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Being Tongue in Cheek is part of being a good parody. Evil Dead is a good parody.
Early Sonic is not a parody of mascot platformers.
Post Colors Sonic is a parody of Pre Colors Sonic.
3 months ago
Boco
>Post Colors Sonic is a parody of Pre Colors Sonic.
Which deserves mockery.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Evil Dead is a good parody.
Evil Dead isn't a parody, especially the first movie. Evil Dead 2 is specifically a horror movie with comedic elements. Army of Darkness is a comedic adventure film.
Drag Me to Hell by the same director isn't a parody, but another horror movie with comedic elements.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Again, that is Sonic's personality visualized, someone impatient or hates waiting will tap their foot.
You're intentionally looking over the fourth wall-breaking aspect, which is the point. >In-universe, it is. No one is laughing at the Death Egg's face, they're scared shitless of it
This isn't an argument. In-universe, nobody shows any particular emotion towards it, they just look up. >You could spin it that way
I don't have to spin it in any particular way. You don't have your character blatantly break the fourth wall if your intending the audience to take the material 100% seriously. Again, it's a clear instance of the developers having some fun with their own characters. >Don't project.
How does that even work as a projection if I already don't take the IP that seriously? I was outright describing what you're doing. >The Sonic games on the Genesis and even Gamegear were not comedic romps
I'm not arguing that they were, I'm saying there are plenty of instances of the early games being inherently cartoonish, and to act like said elements are instead supposed to be taken straight-faced is silly. >It doesn't need to beat you with an obvious explanation of what's going, you see what's going on.
You realize this also applies to comedy? A joke is not simply confined to spoken dialogue. 2's Death Egg and Mecha Sonic are silly parodies of existing media. The game doesn't need to have the characters point out the silly nature of something for it to be apparent. >There's no slapstick or goofiness, it's all a straightforward story.
Again, there's barely any story being depicted in the first place, and again, in certain instances there is still humor being depicted (e.g. the Knuckles example again). >So why are you being so anal about me calling the classic games straightforward?
The whole point of this conversation was about your notion that the classic games featured little-to-no humor whatsoever, as if viewing the series in that manner is "wrong".
3 months ago
Anonymous
>as if viewing the series in that manner is "wrong".
I never said it was wrong, I simply said that the series at least with the classic games were played straight, not that you couldn't see them as humorous. If anything, YOU seem to not like me viewing them as straightforward. Another anon said the same thing I did about the Death Egg.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>There's no slapstick or goofiness, it's all a straightforward story.
Knuckles in Sonic 3 is plenty goofy. Punching a boulder into Sonic in Lava Reef. Repeatably flicking the switch in Mushroom Hill. Punching the Egg mobile Sonic rides in Launch base Only to fall down into the waters once the base launches. Getting shocked by Eggmam as Eggman steals the emerald. Knuckles in 3 is mostly slapstick.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Punching a boulder into Sonic in Lava Reef.
How is that funny? >Repeatably flicking the switch in Mushroom Hill.
He does that to blow Sonic away faster. >Punching the Egg mobile Sonic rides in Launch base Only to fall down into the waters once the base launches.
Kind of silly but not really a slapstick moment. More of a showcase that Knuckles isn’t invincible. >Getting shocked by Eggmam as Eggman steals the emerald.
How is that funny? They don’t play it for comedy in the slightest. Knuckles is show to still be in pain in Sky Sanctuary.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Guess ol eggy just didnt turn the juice up high enough for moron-kun to get it
3 months ago
Anonymous
Was the freedom planet sequel any good?
I liked the original, it was deviantart kino
3 months ago
Anonymous
If FP1 is Deviantart then FP2 is Tumblr. Loses the edge and gets way more lesbian shipping. Also the creator went troony inbetween games. It looks good and plays nice at least, but its different from the OG. Music is good.
>How? If SEGA/Sonic Team had just kept Sonic's identity consistent, we wouldn't be in this mess
If Sonic had a consistent identity, the series would have probably died in the early 2000s like all the other mascot platformers did. For better or for worse, following industry trends is the reason Sonic has managed to stay relevant for so long.
Not true. It knew exactly what it fricking was in the 90s. It was only after SA1's release that Sonic Team desperately tried to "revitalize" the franchise by throwing a bunch of shit at the wall to see what stuck for nearly a decade.
>How? If SEGA/Sonic Team had just kept Sonic's identity consistent, we wouldn't be in this mess
If Sonic had a consistent identity, the series would have probably died in the early 2000s like all the other mascot platformers did. For better or for worse, following industry trends is the reason Sonic has managed to stay relevant for so long.
>If Sonic had a consistent identity, the series would have probably died in the early 2000s like all the other mascot platformers did.
All of the "other" mascot platformers weren't Sonic. Sonic should not be lumped in with the likes of Bubsy or even Crash. (No offense, Crashbros. Just being objective here.) >following industry trends is the reason Sonic has managed to stay relevant for so long. >the reason why Sonic is still relevant is because he became a laughing stock during the 2000s when Sonic Team didn't know what the frick to do with the series anymore so they slapped a bunch of whatever was popular at the time into Sonic's games
What? If Sonic stayed consistent he'd be around just like Mario is now, except he'd actually have a solid catalogue of games as an added bonus. I mean, what? You that just because Sega went third party that Sonic as an IP lost all its staying power on its own?
There's a reason why Sonic is still relevant, and it isn't because they gave Shadow a gun and GTA mechanics, turned Sonic into Hog of War, and ripped off Breath of The Wild wholesale, just to name a few: It's because Sonic's design is really, really good, and he was expertly marketed in the 90s to the point that he's become a permanent fixture in the western cultural zeitgeist. No seriously, that's literally it. Where do you think the majority of the income for the Sonic IP originates? Hint: Not the fricking games.
Merchandise, anon. Merchandise. Sonic Team could stop making Sonic games forever and Sega would STILL be selling Classic Sonic themed T-shirts and plushies until the heat death of the universe. The games' income is just a bonus as far as Sega is concerned. Frontiers was most likely a surprise success for them.
>. It was only after SA1's release that Sonic Team desperately tried to "revitalize" the franchise by throwing a bunch of shit at the wall to see what stuck for nearly a decade.
Sonic 3 has much more in common with SA1 and 2 conceptually, aesthetically and thematically than Sonic 1 2 and CD
>Sonic 3 has much more in common with SA1 and 2 conceptually, aesthetically and thematically than Sonic 1 2 and CD
Delusion. Sonic 3 having a dash of silent cinematography to it as level transitions have frickall to do with the tonal disaster of the Dreamcast games. Not even going to mention gameplay because you might be crazy enough to think otherwise too.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>story based around the ancient power guarded by the echidna tribe >introduce a new character that acts as eggman's pawn for most of the game then turns on him and becomes an ally >different characters can reach different parts of the level based on their abilities >continuity between levels >shounen genre tropes like having a rival to fight against, powering up and achieving a new form, working with your nakama to help get you to the end of the journey
There are a shit ton of parallels both abstract and specific. You sir are the deluded one.
Sonic in the 2000s was a victim of trying to appear "cooler" and "edgier" than its competition (namely Mario), and while Sonic's advertising gimmick always was that it was supposed to be "cooler" since its inception, what was considered cool among children in the 2000s was different from what was cool in the 1990s.
Sonic in the 2000s considerably got far more shonen anime tropey and JRPG tropey down to making him Goku and giving him his own Vegeta and giving Sonic considerably more out-there "I'm 12 years old and my favourite band is Linkin Park and I love Final Fantasy 7" plots and enemy designs.
No, eggman as a villain is still fully on the table. Its just that a route where he can swing sides more often or even be redeemed has been opened with Sage. He'll go from being the ultimate evil overlord to being Sonic's Bowser. The devil we know who we fight against because we cant help it who can be counted on to help fight against the devil we dont know when push comes to shove.
Yeah exactly. This is what Im saying though, For His Daughter is the key phrase. Sage has introduced a character that Eggman actually gives a shit about. That hasnt happened before. Hes been proud of his creations but when they betray him or fail, he writes them off as failures and gos back to the drawing board. No real emotional connection. Sage on the other hand he HAS formed a bond with to the point of being reluctant to send her out to save even his own skin at the end of frontiers. This wouldnt change too much if she was just a perfectly loyal robot with no emotions, but because she has learned about and come to empathize with Sonic, she has the potential to be swayed by him. And If Sonic manages to convince or inspire Sage about something, then by extension Eggman can be influenced to do things he would normally never think to do simply because its what his Daughter wants it, and he wants to do right by her.
Sage is literally the Key to Eggman's heart. They will do wonderful fun evil things together so long as things are under control from eggy's perspective, but when wider stories start up again she is a very easy in for Sonic and crew to get a team up going.
Eggman has always loved his creations, he acting like sage's father doesnt mean he's a good person, he still wants to dominate the world and enslave the mobians. I hate this "le morally gray" villains trend, hollywood and vidya spammed so many of them in midia that people now think every single antagonist is morally gray.
>Eggman has always loved his creations
No he doesn’t. SA1 has him discard the E-100 series as soon as they didn’t perfectly perform. Hell the first thing Gamma sees is Metal Sonic sitting dormant in a tube because he failed in Sonic CD.
Whatever pride Eggman has in Sage would be gone the second she screws up and left him trapped in cyberspace against his will. The Eggdad shit is forced as frick.
>Metal Sonic sitting dormant in a tube
Metal Sonic both failed and literally betrayed him and tried to kill him, and Dr.Eggman still keeps him around.
Though the Eggdad thing is a bit forced since it's clear they just wanted to capitalize on the Eggette idea that went around after Mania was released.
He still kept him around to be used again and again. I'd argue being put into the tube is better then being completely destroyed and replaced with an upgrade.
Hell, Eggman literally did exactly that and STILL goes back to using Metal Sonic.
Flynn is obsessed with making Eggman more than a ego-centric manchild for whatever reason. It's why his comics had Eggman regularly depicted as a dictator-like figure.
Eggman literally was a dictator who imposed his will over the world lol. But Eggman just sucked in frontiers. And that mostly for me stems from the whole thing with sage. So forced and frankly ooc to believe he would act that way knowing how he was beforehand towards his stuff.
>Eggman literally was a dictator who imposed his will over the world lol.
Forces barely makes this apparent. If anything the whole game feels like he's still in the process of conquering shit.
If we're being honest, Eggman sucked in Forces too. The whole premise of "a world conquered by Eggman" was completely wasted, largely due to Sonic Team's moronic idea of introducing a second antagonist even though Infinite adds essentially nothing to the plot. He does nothing that Eggman couldn't have done himself with the Phantom Ruby installed onto the front of his eggmobile.
>Sonic Team's moronic idea of introducing a second antagonist
The problem wasn't with the fact there was a secondary antagonist. It was that Infinite was a badly executed character. Honestly the idea of "what if eggman took over the world for real this time" is arguably worse than any backup villain because it requires you to either rewrite the cast or rewrite eggman into completely different characters for it to make sense
Metal Sonic could have been a secondary antagonist and noone would have complained because he's familiar to everyone
Eggman literally was a dictator who imposed his will over the world lol. But Eggman just sucked in frontiers. And that mostly for me stems from the whole thing with sage. So forced and frankly ooc to believe he would act that way knowing how he was beforehand towards his stuff.
>Flynn makes Eggman far more sadistic in the comics. Even in IDW, he unleashes a world-wide plague out of spite. >Sonic Frontiers humanizes him.
I think it's a Sonic Team thing. Flynn stated in one of the Bumblekasts (I can't remember which one right now) that Eggman's affection for Sage is more out of him having created her rather than out of just having a daughter.
I guess it depends on how much, if any, influence he has going forward. Either way, it's weird to see people blame Flynn for 'softening Eggman up" when Flynn's Eggman is usually one of the more sadistic takes on the character.
>Eggman literally was a dictator who imposed his will over the world lol.
Forces barely makes this apparent. If anything the whole game feels like he's still in the process of conquering shit.
If we're being honest, Eggman sucked in Forces too. The whole premise of "a world conquered by Eggman" was completely wasted, largely due to Sonic Team's moronic idea of introducing a second antagonist even though Infinite adds essentially nothing to the plot. He does nothing that Eggman couldn't have done himself with the Phantom Ruby installed onto the front of his eggmobile.
For me, it's how they made it so boring. >Eggman takes over off-screen >Doesn't do anything interesting with it. >His bases are generic because it's Serious (TM)
>I think it's a Sonic Team thing.
Didn't the original leaked plot involve Sage being an out-of-control AI? This fits in more with Sonic Team's previous approach to non-Eggman villains, really.
The whole "Eggdad" angle really does come across more as something Flynn came up when Frontiers' narrative was re-worked, dropping the amnesia angle and whatnot. Although in hindsight the whole "Sonic regains his memories" framing would have meshed a lot better with all the blatant meta references Frontiers is filled with.
On one hand, Eggman having a daughter was a thing in the Archie book and Flynn wasn't able to explore it much before being forced to kill her off.
On the other, Flynn wasn't the one who introduced her and a bit before her death, Flynn Eggman reveal that his Egg Grapes are actually an inefficient means of creating power and he basically uses them for shits and giggles. So I don't think there'd be any worry of Eggman losing his edge.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>So I don't think there'd be any worry of Eggman losing his edge.
I'm not really concerned with Eggman's "edge". I don't really want Eggman to be presented as some super-evil villain anyway.
I'm more concerned that Eggman having a daughter-like figure will end up taking focus away from Eggman essentially being in love with himself, which is an aspect of the character I've always liked. Then again, maybe it won't. Flynn has implied otherwise, but he also tends to say shit that's a bit dubious at the end of the day. I guess we'll see.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, we'll see. Hopefully Sage fits more as "an assistant who's also his daughter" mold. >I'm more concerned that Eggman having a daughter-like figure will end up taking focus away from Eggman essentially being in love with himself, which is an aspect of the character I've always liked.
In all honesty, the generic presentation of his empire in Forces is more concerning to me than Sage in that regard. Metropolis doesn't look like an "Eggman capital city".
The Lamp isn't melted down. Secret Rings ends with Sonic still having the lamp
?t=423
Was there an easter egg in Black Knight or something?
Though now that I look at it, is that Evil Foundry? Or did he drop the lamp into a random pit?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah that's Evil Foundery. I forget if the lava cooled or not afer Sonic killed Ifrit.
I would like a husbando mobian villain that just kicks everyone's ass and isn't a jobber like Infinite. You know, a villain that is actually a threat and is intimidating? Eggman hasn't really been intimidating for quite some time. We haven't had one since Shadow and Shadow became an Anti-Hero.
There's a big difference between Eggman getting humiliated after he's already been defeated as the final boss VS him getting BTFO by the thing he was trying to control
Thing is him being a final boss has 0 weight in colors. Everytime he appears in a cutscene he’s getting humiliated in some fashion. If it was just Sonic insulting him it would be fine but even his own dumb robot goons constantly shit talk him and he just takes it like a b***h. He can’t even make a super villain laugh without getting out of breath and coughing. Why bother making him the final boss if he’s just going to be a clown the whole game anyway?
Eggman as the final boss has no stakes after the classics. He is the main villain of the series but in most games you fight him throughout the game unlike Bowser which usually gets three matches in through out a game. It's diminishing returns, by the time you get to final boss Eggman. He isn't a threat anymore since you fought him through every zone. The monster or side villain helps keep the final boss as a threat. Sega could also just have other villains fight the player throughout the game so it's not just Eggman.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sonic keeps killing his other villains despite being a moral gay
3 months ago
Anonymous
IDW Sonic is a moral gay. Game Sonic just stops villains from harming others so he is okay with killing. He would likely have killed Chaos if Tikal didn't intervene. There also some they can still use like Eggman Nega, Gun, Metal Sonic, The robot pirates from Rush Adventure.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Game Sonic's kill count is still pitifully low. The only legitimate kill is King Arthur who was a illusion created by Merlina.
3 months ago
Anonymous
King Arthur was only an "illusion" in the sense that Merlin created him with magic to be the benevolent ruler England needed
He was still a physical person born to parents
3 months ago
Anonymous
>He would likely have killed Chaos if Tikal didn't intervene.
I don't know if the JP script was different but isn't Sonic the one who talks Tikal out of sealing Chaos away forever?
3 months ago
Anonymous
He does. Tails also talks about how Super Sonic will be able to use his positive energy to cancel out Chaos's negative energy. This might be headcanon but it feels like Sonic leaves his foes with like 1hps and just leaves them be. If you die, he doesn't think much of it. If you live, he'll just fight you again next time.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Who are the villains that Sonic has just straight up killed?
3 months ago
Anonymous
King Arthur.
3 months ago
Anonymous
He definitely killed Erazor Djinn.
[...]
[...]
It's funny reading this list of deaths in the Sonic series and seeing the ones Sonic caused. https://listofdeaths.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic It also counts robots since they have ai/brains.
>vanquished a magical illusion >threw a genie's lamp into a vault >robots that are literally not sentient
Grasping at straws, I see.
3 months ago
Anonymous
He definitely killed Erazor Djinn.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Secret Rings and Black Knight were honestly kind of kino.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>kino
Considering they're only enjoyable through watching a cutscene compilation on an online video platform, in this instance "kino" would be appropriate depsite being used to describe a Modern Sonic game.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Black Knight is enjoyable. You actually get to use a control stick so the on rails structure isn't finicky
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sonic went Shadow that game after absorbing the negative energy of the rings
3 months ago
Anonymous
Nope. Erazor is eternally imprisoned in a lamp but still alive.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Didn't his lamp get melted down?
3 months ago
Anonymous
King Arthur.
He definitely killed Erazor Djinn.
It's funny reading this list of deaths in the Sonic series and seeing the ones Sonic caused. https://listofdeaths.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic It also counts robots since they have ai/brains.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Emerl being a villain is kinda of a bigass stretch sense he had no choice in the final matter of things after Eggman tricked him. Sonic had no choice but to stop him.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>11 Black Knights - Killed by Sonic >King Arthur's Horse - Head cut off by Sonic. >King Arthur - Head cut off by Sonic.
Nope. Erazor is eternally imprisoned in a lamp but still alive.
[...]
[...] >vanquished a magical illusion >threw a genie's lamp into a vault >robots that are literally not sentient
Grasping at straws, I see.
His lamp was thrown into a vat of lava.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Lamp isn't melted down. Secret Rings ends with Sonic still having the lamp
3 months ago
Anonymous
Isn't King Arthur also questionable because Sonic bullshited the entirety of Black Knight to Amy?
3 months ago
Anonymous
It counts Dark Gaia as dead even though it's still alive. Dormant but alive. This list is...something
Bowser doesn’t have two annoying minions who do nothing but go “wow, you really think kidnapping the princess is going to work this time? Haven’t you failed like hundreds of times before? Mario’s going to kick your butt as usual.” That kind of humor is Dorkly tier.
3 months ago
Boco
Fits Sonic better than being all serious and having him fight rejects from Final Fantasy.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It really doesn’t
3 months ago
Boco
Opinion.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's another east vs west thing really. Burgers seem to think that because something is made to appeal to a wider audience beyond its region of origin must mean that it must only be appealing to them. Sonic was designed with western sensibilities but was generally designed to appeal to all audiences, it just happened that it succeeded more in the West.
When you actually look into Sonic, almost everything about it from the 90s is based on pop culture a lot of it from Japan too.
The Adventure games and the 2000s games in general are very tokusatsu esque in how they handle a lot of these villains especially with Chaos and the Biolizard looking like Kaijus and Metal Sonic turning into Mecha Godzilla (which is even referenced in SA1)
3 months ago
Anonymous
>which is even referenced in SA1
That's a carry-over from Sonic 2. Mecha Sonic in 2 is a blatant parody of Mechagodzilla, down to the shoulder initials.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I've found that most so-called weebs are really in the dunning-kruger zone. They almost have eyes, but they can't really see or perceive actual reality. Japanese entertainment isn't particularly what they think it is. Japan is, and always has been, based around cute culture and comedy, first and foremost, and think this is a thing that most overseas audiences don't necessarily get straight away, or even really realize. Japanese entertainment is typically more similar to Mario and Dragon Quest, where things are quite laidback and silly. Because Sonic was originally incredibly comedic and light-hearted, if you solely look at the original work that was created. It's a game about a mascot character fighting a fat naughty man who builds robot crabs and wasps. That's a literal interpretation of the original game. This is something designed to appeal to 6 year old girls in Japan, similar to something like Kirby. Don't forget that the best-selling MD game in Japan wasn't Sonic, it was Puyo Puyo. The real Westernization of Sonic is making it more so-called edgy. Because of Sonic's popularity in the West and its perceived coolness, I think the developers actively kept tipping the scales to make it more brooding and epic. This is apparent in how Sonic 2 and 3 were developed in the US, and leaned heavier into this style. This is apparent in how SA2 dropped the goofy and comedic Amy and Big, and replaced them with Shadow and Rouge upon the request of Western fans. SA1 was a return of Sega trying to appeal to Japan, and it had mixed results. With the possible exception of Heroes and GBA, all Sonic games made in the 2000's were created primarily for the overseas audience.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>That kind of humor is Dorkly tier.
That kind of humor is literally of the same era that Colors released in, so its inclusion makes sense.
Aside from that, Eggman having two buffoon sidekicks who regularly question his shit is nothing new for the IP, or even Sonic Team, considering their oversight on Sonic X's production.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The two bumbling minions usually do something. Scratch and Grounder set up Wille coyote-like traps. Decoe and Bocoe gave him his cards in Sonic X. Orbot and Cubot literally do nothing but nag at him. It makes no sense why someone as egotistical as Eggman would ever keep them around.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Colors showed Orbot and Cubot cleaning up Eggman's ruined mech and attempting to catch a Wisp, so clearly Eggman sends them out on specific errands.
>being an even bigger joke
Mario has never beaten Bowser without help, he's always had to rely on environmental hazards, power ups and/or teammates.
Eggman *can* be a bigger threat to Sonic than Bowser is to Mario at times, but it's far from the norm.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Mario has never beaten Bowser without help, he's always had to rely on environmental hazards, power ups and/or teammates.
This has always been so lame to me, I know it's a cartoon platformer but it really feels like Bowser often just lets Mario win. The only satisfying Bowser kills are doing it with a powerup
3 months ago
Anonymous
Or, you know, Bowser is just a big brute who thinks things through even less than Eggman does.
Bowser is only treated as a joke in games where he isn't the villain, like Mario & Luigi 3 and Thousand Year Door.
In games where he's the final boss, he's usually played pretty straight as a villain.
Even in Odyssey where he acts very camp with a silly motivation, he never gets upstaged at all and has multiple cutscene victories against Mario.
Because he's the franchise villain, just like how Bowser is usually the last boss despite being an even bigger joke.
Forces was unironically the perfect opportunity to bring back a SATAM like version of the character. The last time Eggman was remotely menacing was SA2 and one line of dialogue from Lost World.
Because I am no longer a child and I want my favorite video games, that are made to children, to be more serious and edgy so I can live in my childhood forever and ignore reality
Plenty of people do take it seriously. You are a vocal minority if you don’t.
Look at how many fans of Shadow there are. Look at how many fans want a child to get shot in the third Sonic movie. The actress even celebrated her getting the role as Maria by dressing up as a bodybag.
People love the dark aspects of the series, it’s what makes Sonic stand out from all the other forgotten 90’s mascot platformers.
>The actress even celebrated her getting the role as Maria by dressing up as a bodybag.
People keep saying this but it seems to me that it's more likely that she wanted to cover her face so we don't see what she will look like in the movie.
tbf Eggman had his serious moments in the classic games too
like the bad futures in CD
or when he firebombed an entire forest in 3&K
or when he tried to make that Death Star ripoff
It's still a time devouring monster. Just because it doesn't slap Eggman out of the plot doesn't change that it's the thing you fight for the final boss.
I love how Sonic Team's incompetence resulted in this boss blatantly clipping into the landscape whenever it spins around, with said spinning adding nothing to boss fight anyway.
>Biolizard may be based on Chaos
It is amazing how autistic some people can get about the "lore" of this series, and yet are still ignorant on very basic elements that were written out years ago.
This. Biolizard is just a lizard experiment because Lizards can regenerate tails and Gerald wanted to heal Maria with it. Sometimes the curtain is just blue
>Biolizard may be based on Chaos
It is amazing how autistic some people can get about the "lore" of this series, and yet are still ignorant on very basic elements that were written out years ago.
Or it could just be both you fun-hating homosexuals.
This. Biolizard is just a lizard experiment because Lizards can regenerate tails and Gerald wanted to heal Maria with it. Sometimes the curtain is just blue
is canon to SA2's story (I have no idea if modern Sonic Team even remembers this, though, last I checked I think they also retconned the origin of Shadow's name). Shadow appearance being based on the Hidden Palace mural is also just fanon shit. Sorry the writing isn't as deep as you think it is.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It wasn't fanon at first. It was in Rouge's Report, one of those behind the scenes lore documents Japan makes then never localizes.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>It wasn't fanon at first.
I was talking talking about the mural bit regarding fanon. I remember back when it was first being thrown around as a fan theory on message boards back in the mid/late-2000s.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Ok, and what about that exactly prevents the design from having anything to do with Perfect Chaos?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sonic Team gave an exact explanation on why the Biolizard is a lizard: it's a mutated lizard.
It has nothing to do with Chaos, a serpentine-like creature. It's shape was not "designed" by Gerald in any specific way.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>fact >entirely separate claim
so are you going to answer his question or
3 months ago
Anonymous
It was already answered. Sonic Team's explanation for the Bioloziard is that it's a lizard haphazardly mutated through Gerald's experiments. Gerald did not design its appearance to invoke a specific being.
3 months ago
Anonymous
And the reason that this somehow invalidates its resemblance to Perfect Chaos regardless of Gerald's supposed intent is because you said so. Got it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>this somehow invalidates its resemblance to Perfect Chaos
It holds no resemblance to Perfect Chaos. It's not a water creature nor is it a serpent. >because you said so
Because Sonic Team said so. If there was any real tie between the Biolizard and Chaos they would have also outright explained so, because they're not very good writers.
This. Biolizard is just a lizard experiment because Lizards can regenerate tails and Gerald wanted to heal Maria with it. Sometimes the curtain is just blue
I've played through 1, CD, 2, 3&K for the first time in probably 15 years using the Taxman ports and 3 AIR. I thought I loved these games before but I have a whole new appreciation for them, 2 and 3&K are downright brilliant. 1 I've always liked, but being able to spin and drop dash in it, along with go super and elemental shields make the slower zones so much more fun. CD is still a mess level design wise though. I also recently got true end on Triple Trouble 16bit, and am gonna play Mania soon. Sonic is becoming one of my favourite series again, something I couldn't say since being 11. I hope Fallen Star is as good as Triple Trouble was as well.
It's kind of funny how the Sonic universe has undergone multiple cataclysmic humanitarian disasters that are "apparently" all canon. You have in order:
The awakening of an ancient god of destruction leading to a massive tsunami hitting a major metropolitan area causing casualties at a bare minimum in the tens of thousands that probably would have taken billions of dollars and decades to recover from.
A massive terrorist attack leading to half of the fricking moon being blown up by said terrorists. The ecological impacts alone are terrifying, and who knows how many chunks of moon ended up impacting the Earth's surface.
I could never get the chaos emeralds in Heroes but I think Metal Sonic built a massive fleet of airships to do... something? I guess no one died horribly there at least.
A literal planetary wide alien invasion. Shit that's like what a couple of billion dead plus whatever long term side effects of having Earth's ecosystem contaminated by alien life forms? The the amount of relief aid required after that has got to be in the multiple trillions.
Another ancient god of destruction that split apart the planets crust... I mean it seems like everyone was mostly fine in Unleashed but ripping apart the Earth's crust has got to have caused like a couple of dozen of natural disasters right?
Sonic 06 has time straight up collapse but I guess it doesn't matter since the game retcons itself out of mattering.
What the frick is even going on in Forces, why are there animal people, where did the humans go. How does Shadow's arc even work if there are no humans to be mad at? Why is Silver even there?
It's not weird that any one event happened. It's that they ALL happened in one timeline and no one seems to acknowledge all of the billions that have had to have died over the course of this series.
Apparently, no one died from Perfect Chaos attacking Station Square, not a single casualty.
If you question this, you will be met with either a like-minded person who understands that even if this is stupid and doesn't make any sense it is still canon, or a defensive and irrational Sonic fan who will unironically say "it makes sense because Sonic Team wanted it to make sense" in response to a narrative inconsistency being laid out for all to see.
Oh, well that's still billions of dollars worth of infrastructure that needs to be replaced and like a bunch disaster refugees. But nah it's just fun to think about, how Eggman is an S-tier terrorist who probably should have been assassinated by the governments of the world for his crimes against humanity.
Any damage done is fixed the moment the credits roll, this series doesn't have consequence permanence, it can't, the status quo won't let it.
This is especially funny and sad with the context of Sonic's speech in Forces, the one game that should've had massive lasting consequences.
Imagine if Mario fans wrote essays about the tanks and hell-inspired worlds in Mario 3 were "comedic, but serious and deep". That's what Sonic fans on Ganker do all the time, and it's completely odd to me..
The point of each characters' story in SA1 is that you're seeing things from the individual characters' perspective (hence why certain shared cutscenes have slightly different dialogue), so Eggman spewing out a line that sounds more threatening than usual is due to the player seeing Eggman from Tails' perspective, who is generally scared of Eggman when Sonic isn't around to back him up. The overcoming of said fear is a large point of his arc.
>Time Eater
Was converted into a robot by Eggman by that point. Probably doesn't. >Dark Gaia
I forgot, did Dark Gaia even die or did he just go back to sleep?
Are the robots in Sonic sentient? Gamma and Omega, yeah. Orbot and Cubot yeah. What about the others?
Metal Sonic is definitely sentient. Ditto Mecha. The e-series robots seem like more of a crapshoot. The general badniks, I'd assume no, except for the Egg Pawns.
Are the robots in Sonic sentient? Gamma and Omega, yeah. Orbot and Cubot yeah. What about the others?
The E -series literally have Flickies inside of them that work as their brains.
Orbot and Cubot are literally comic relief, so if they won't ever ACTUALLY get destroyed.
For the purposes of this argument, no. Whenever the badnik is destroyed, the animal escapes. Sonic would have to also kill the animal for it to count as him "killing" the badnik. It's like saying you killed a Gundam pilot if you blow up his Gundam when he's already escaped to safety.
I always assumed that Badniks had animals that act as power sources, but those with higher functioning minds might have the influence of the animal leak through in some cases. I kind of always accepted that cartoon logic.
I also always assumed some of the more higher end badniks used more expensive but efficient power sources. Like Metal Sonic probably doesn't have one.
Omega doesn't use an animal for power. The chance one of Eggman's robots goes rogue us tied to how he programmed it, and/or if it was influenced by outside forces, like with his police robots and Master Core: ABIS in Zero Gravity.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Omega doesn't use an animal for power
Do we actually know that? Every single other E-100 series robot did
3 months ago
Anonymous
If he did then he doesn't anymore. No way would Shadow and Rogue leave that in him knowingly, and neither would Tails (who I assume is who maintains him, I don't know who else could be.)
Also in the comics everything but his head gets destroyed and he is fine, so he is probably just built different.
3 months ago
Anonymous
06 shows him reactivate after 200 years so unless his animal is kept in stasis he presumably has a different power source.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I don't think all his rogue robots were like that, but Gamma at least was. In some way the Flicky influenced him, as we see its memories through his eyes.
Omega went rogue seemingly out of spite, and Metal Sonic when it has happened was due to faulty programming or also spite.
In Gemerl's case he was just straight reprogrammed for it. I think the reasons his AI go rogue vary heavily.
>Like Metal Sonic probably doesn't have one.
The Sonic CD manual goes into surprising detail about Metal's specs. He doesn't use animals for power, or at least he doesn't seem to.
https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_CD/Manuals#Metal_Sonic
In Chaotix, it's suggested his new body is running off of Dark Ring energy.
I unironically like both. Big fricking monsters are cool but Eggman kicks ass and Sonic tends to have good giant robot designs.
I just want them to stop reusing the same wisp fight over and over like jesus stop it.
>Egg Nega Wisp has a neat gimmick of using the color powers just like you've been the entire game, complete with announcer. >Lost World and Forces reuse the boss moveset while completely removing that context, diminishing the original fight by wearing out its welcome.
Why
They should make a spiritual successor to SA2/Heroes that lets you play as 4 different teams including Eggman and then give each their own ending with Super forms.
Sonic killed The End.
It's obviously not a morally bad thing to do, but we're not trying to argue morals, we're arguing whether or not Sonic has taken a persons life, which he has, The End was inarguably intelligent, malevolent and arrogant, only people can mean to be evil.
They rebooted the franchise without actually calling it a reboot in 2010, and the rebooted franchise called for Eggman being the main villain always.
But that's lame
Sega throwing in random eldritch horrors for bosses in every game for 10 years was lamer
>Sonic adventure 1&2
>shadow the hedgehog
>Sonic 06
>Sonic Unleashed
Thats not even including the other unheard of games they released back then
I only disagree for 06.
Final fight should've been silver vs mephiles after Solaris
idk if
>shooting the moon in Galaga
Counts as an eldritch monster
That evil rock ball sure tries to act like one.
I giant sentient moon of pure edgy evil is about as eldritch horror as its gets. Do you think it needs a funny squid face too?
calling the biolizard an "eldritch horror" is a bit of a stretch, it's a salamander.
A monitor lizard, actually. Salamanders are amphibians.
That's a cool looking creature
More accurately, it’s an alien.
It's less alien than Shadow, who is part Black Doom, part Maria Robotnik, and who knows what else.
what the frick is the final hazard then
A lizard with a space colony rammed up it's ass
>random
This isn't a Kirby game, none of them were random. They were the villains that got built up from the very beginning of the game.
Biolizard was cool, Chaos was alright, Doom was fine at least he had a presence throughout the game, 06 sucked, Unleashed sucked.
>Listen kid, the series was always better when the cast was just Sonic and Eggman. Tails and Knuckles were already stretching it. You and Sonic's friends need OUT of this franchise
This was the opinion of the average "hardcore gaemer" on the internet from 2006-2012, and SEGA decided to pander to them exclusively until Frontiers released. Even funnier was that this group didn't even play Sonic, hence why you had Game Informer giving Sonic 4 Episode 1 an 8 while it gave Gens a 6.5.
Adventure-era zoomers are probably the most anti-journo group in existence
It wasn't lame, it just got predictable.
>Eggman tampers with powers beyond his control
>he gets a big upper-hand against Sonic
>Sonic wins
>finale unlocks
>powers outside Eggman's control turn on him/steal the spotlight
>Sonic goes Super and saves the day
The stories Sonic Team wanted to write didn't work with having Eggman as the big finale boss fight at the time. This is especially prevalent in Lost World and Forces, where a Zeti and Infinite finales would've worked leagues better respectively had they not tied themselves to the "Solo Sonic" and "Eggman-only" formula
Infinite works as not being the final boss because he's supposed to be a loser and only uses the ruby and the mask to hide the fact that he is a loser.
End should've been Shadow farming on him again
>This was the opinion of the average "hardcore gaemer" on the internet from 2006-2012
It was the opinion of most Sonic fans of the time as well, hence why S4E1 was marketed the way it was (i.e. proudly declaring that the game was Sonic-only).
Funnily, the hardcore fans ended up showing more interest in Colors over 4, while casual audiences showed more interest in 4 over Colors, the exact opposite of Iizuka's intentions. Then after making bank on S4E1, Sega lost said causal audience's attention by waiting around two years before releasing 4's next episode, fricking themselves over.
S4E2 being a financial disappointment in relation to S4E1 almost kept Mania form being made, because Sega figured audiences were no longer interested.
>Funnily, the hardcore fans ended up showing more interest in Colors over 4, while casual audiences showed more interest in 4 over Colors, the exact opposite of Iizuka's intentions.
Just like Mania and Forces.
>It wasn't lame, it just got predictable.
That's what made it lame.
technically thats the second time they reboot it as soinc 2006 was the first time the rebooted it
Lol they rebooted twice and never acknowledged it
Sonic 06 wasn't a reboot in a traditional sense. It's was meant to be like DBZ was to DB or Shippuden from Naruto or mainly how Adventure era was for classics.. A fresh start but with the lore of the games before it.
I thought the era of mandategays was over.
>They rebooted the franchise without actually calling it a reboot in 2010
Is that why the game they released in 2011 served as a giant callback to every mainline game released before that point?
It was GOING to be a reboot, then it bombed and Sega swept it under the rug.
>It was GOING to be a reboot, then it bombed
Colors did the exact opposite of "bomb". Colors was also originally supposed to be a Generations port until they turned the project into its own game (kind of like what happened with 06's port turning into Secret Rings), it was never intended as a reboot.
The Sonic Boom branch was initially envisioned as a western-focused reboot, but was relegated to spinoff status later in production.
I think he may have been thinking of Sonic Boom which was a catastrophic failure
Generations didn't rewrite anything.
Gens unretconned 06.
06 was never "retconned". A major point of that game's ending is the implication that Sonic remembers everything that happened.
That doesn't really change what Gens did. The time eater fricks with the timeline not memories. And somehow brought a timeline that should be erased back into existsence.
That's not really retconning, that's Sonic Team going "let's throw in the fire city from this game because we don't really give a shit."
Generations barely has a plot in the first place.
Yeah, exactly. Gens rewrote and washed up all of Sonic's history.
>Gens rewrote
What exactly did Generations rewrite.
It rewrote that those games existed. It sands them down to their base elements and singular levels.
>It rewrote that those games existed
But they did exist, so it isn't a re-write of anything.
Don't forget Sonic Boom. That would have been a third reboot if it was successful. It wasn't, so they pivoted back to the second reboot.
There was no "second reboot" you ape.
The only time the series was close to being rebooted before Boom was with 06, which would have been more of a soft-reboot, if anything.
Well take it up with this guy.
I'll take it up with you because you're a moron who just blindly absorbs anything you read on Ganker.
Someone's got a bug up their butt. Go jerk off or something.
Or you could stop gracing us with your stupidity.
So what you're telling me is Sonic Frontiers is from the 2000s
>K·O
>Not K·T·E
It probably means “KNOCKOUT”
They got bored of having the same final boss every game. Then they got bored of having a different final boss every game. Now they're back to being bored of having the same final boss every game.
It definitely takes influence from the 2000s games.
The whole game is one big memberberry, even more than Generations or Mania. Of course they'd make the final boss reminiscent of the "good ol' days" too
Where the FRICK is he traveling to? I'm gonna steal the ME if the doesn't go back to his dumb island
Being cool became cringe when Marvel movies became started and you were only allowed to be self aware and shit
They'd better not frick up Gerald in 3
The trope of eggman getting buttfricked by his minions is still going strong. Unleashed had not-chaos, generations had time eater, entire plot of lost world is that deadly six takes over control of eggman's robots until very end, mania had heavies, and while I didn't play frontier, it seems like there's still some monster in the end too. So, realistically, only game where eggman really is final boss in all senses is colors, and even then, ds version had homie mother wisp. Ah, there's also forces, which wikipedia doesn't even list in main article, so I forgot about it.
>only game where eggman really is final boss in all senses is colors
Ok, but every game after Colors sans frontiers Eggman is still the final boss.
With SA1, SA2 it made sense. Eggman is absent for virtually all of Heroes too with Metal Sonic masquerading as him. It was only after that point with 06 and Unleashed where it was actually felt hamfisted.
>Ok, but every game after Colors Eggman is still the final boss
>games after colors
>generations
>lost world
>mania
>forces
>frontier
>games with eggman as final boss
>lost world
>forces
>games with weekly monster as final boss
>generations
>mania
>frontier
I'd like to add an amusing observation of my own. Of those games, the former group is consistently disliked, while latter is consistently liked. Obviously there's just five games to pick from, but I still find it funny.
You know Classic an Modern Eggman straight up controlled Time Eater and piloted it, right?
Both of those aren't even true, eggman pilots generations so it's him and Mania has him directly involved in the final battle so really it's just frontiers
I have been thinking about playing Sonic games since I'm autistic as frick, but it's a bit daunting how there are like gazillion games on different platforms and the story seems to gotten rebooted every couple of games.
What are the most essential Sonic games I should get?
Start with Sonic 2 (many people make the mistake of starting with Sonic 1 and get immediately filtered by the lack of spin dash, harder difficulty, and more emphasis on platforming) then play 3 & Knuckles, CD is optional because it's a more contentious pick like Sonic 1. After that play both Adventure games. They're a bit clunky but still have quite a few great moments and the Sonic gameplay in both is still arguably the best true 3D Sonic gameplay experience. After that do a frickton of skipping and go straight to the boost era with Sonic Colors, which takes the positives of Unleashed but removes the tedious Werehog. Then play Generations which is like Colors but with much better level design and less emphasis on wisps. After that play Mania for a refreshing 2D throwback before heading into Frontiers which in spite of it's shortcomings is still much better than anything Sonic Team has made since Generations.
You can mess with other titles in between as well but that's the smoothest way to play through the main series. As far as story and lore goes. Don't worry about it, the fans care about it way more than Sonic Team does and you'll just get frustrated trying to piece it all together.
Very lulzy way to try and get into this dogshit franchise, doncha think
Don't listen to that other idiot, start with Sonic 1 and LEARN the physics. You'll thank me later.
Just play the Genesis games, the Adventure games then Mania, it's all you need.
The genesis games, adventure 1 and 2, colors, mania, frontiers
Unleashed if you have a good enough computer to emulate it on xenia for stable framerates and can mod out the shitty battle music.
Honorable mentions go to sonic CD, advance 1 and 2, the rush series, colors ds (different from wii version) and sonic battle
Aside from the adventure games the story in sonic has literally never mattered dont think to hard about it
Ditch Colors off that list and replace it with Gen. Everything good gameplay wise in colors is better in Generations and all of the trash story problems are lesser in Generations.
Nah i think colors is good enough on its on. One game being better doesnt invalidad another. Otherwise the only 2d games anyone would ever recommend are s3&k and mania. Beside generations is bogged down hard by classic sonic, i dont think those stages hold up well at all
Sonic 1 and 2 are still good games for their time of release.
Yes im aware?
Forgot about generations that one too. If unleasheds werehog filters you then just play the day stages mod pack for generations
>essential mainline games
Sonic 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles
Adventure 1 and 2
Unleashed
Colors
Generations
Mania
>cool side games
Shadow
Battle
Riders/Zero Gravity
Forgot to reply to
you forgot Rush
Rush is not essential.
>muh Blaze
Coomer mentality. Blaze is a literal nobody.
Black person it was the first game that demonstrated the boost mechanic in 2d and was one of the only good (if not the best) boost games in the series. I could not give two shits about Blaze you reddit spacing muttoid.
Soft reboot to de-escalate the scope of the story
Like when Pokemon got out of their phase of making the villains "I want to use a god of creation to commit genocide"
i love how the story never acknowledges the thousands of drowned people during that incident
all's well that ends well
no one drowned. all managed to get away
>all managed to get away
Yet you can hear them cheering after the battle with perfect chaos. It's fine though, weird aspects like that are why I enjoy SA1's story. Same with SA2.
?si=OxUj6-3KLF16sKKV
I love this cute little autist so much
>"All's well that ends well, right?"
Tails, the entire city was just decimated by what amounts to a massive tsunami. 80% of the city is dead, and those that remain are homeless and completely destitute. I wanna smack the shit out of you for saying something so fricking moronic.
Blame the localizers
Sonic X explained that everyone evacuated safely.
>THE CITY'S BEEN FRICKING DESTROYED!
They were wished back with the Dragon Emeralds.
Space is boring, and my favorite final zones are Scrap Brain and Metallic Madness..
I don't know if you know this, but everything that happened with Sonic in the 2010s was the result of people complaining for years about the franchise's decline in quality & the series straying too far away from it's roots and contrary to what Adventure/Dark Age fanboys think, it wasn't just reviewers complaining about it, it was fans who've been with the series since the beginning complaining about it.
False. Everyone loves edge sonic
>False. Everyone loves edge sonic
People do now, but tell that to people in the 2000s. Sonic only started being dark & serious because it was following industry trends in order to stay relevant. Hell Sonic's redesign in Adventure was done to make him look less cute & more badass, because people at the time were starting to gravitate towards more badass looking heroes.
And then we all realize that it was a completely wasted effort since what came after strayed even further. The gameplay was dumbed down to a degree where its almost unrecognizeable with Sonic not even curling into a ball anymore which even fricking 06 had, the characters being completely rewritten and butchered especially with this push of the "Core 4".
>the series straying too far away from it's roots
It was less this and more it strayed away from what people believed Sonic was. Actually ask any of these people what Sonic was back in the day and you'd realize how off base all of their claims are in hindsight which is why we've seen the franchise completely morph into this more homogenized, generic slop franchise.
with Sonic the main character, Tails the young sidekick, Knuckles the hotheaded rival and Amy the girl.
The real problem was that they were trying to juggle the "orignal spirit" of Sonic in handheld content with the newer direction on main consoles but Sonicgays are insufferably autistic and shit can only ever go one way
The real issue is that Sonic isn't anything. It's a fricking mess of a franchise that's had an identity crisis since its inception. It can't decide what it wants to be.
And the fans make it worse.
How? If SEGA/Sonic Team had just kept Sonic's identity consistent, we wouldn't be in this mess
But now we have this fricking nightmare where Sonic means different things to different people
Because the fanbase is harshly split between those who want a silly cartoon about a blue hedgehog and those who want a serious shonen.
Yeah, and SEGA caused that
Meaning whatever they do it will never satisfy everyone, is what I mean.
The people who want silly cartoon antics aren’t real fans. Sonic always was a shonen.
"Shonen" doesn't mean anything.
Shonen - Manga aimed at preteen+ boys.
Shojo - Manga aimed at preteen+ girls.
Seinen - Manga aimed at adult men.
Josei - Manga aimed at adult women.
These are demographics, not genres. They have nothing to do with the content, they only define who the work is aimed at.
There are shonen manga cliches though. Things like super forms or rivals becoming allies after they get beaten which Sonic follows.
Rent A Girlfriend is a shonen and it has none of that
Those are tropes/cliches of the action genre, not of shonen (which is literally anything aimed at young boys)
Of course it does. The protagonist turns into super cuck form.
>They have nothing to do with the content, they only define who the work is aimed at.
Why do you think they are aimed at specific groups?
Because of the content, baka.
Or presentation...
"well ackshually"
It's a colloquialism. We know shonen is a demographic. When people describe anything as "shonen" it usually means it follows a particular through line and has particular aspects that warrant it falling under that category.
And people keep telling me that the autism only came from Adventuregays
Sonic was based on Felix the fricking cat. Everything you posted was added in sequels simply because someone at Sonic Team is a weeb. It doesn't change what the first game was.
>someone at Sonic Team is a weeb
Sonic team is a Japanese branch. A Weeb is a non Japanese person who wanks off Japan & hates their own culture & race. It doesn't mean ''anime fan.''
Can you really call Sonic Team weebs if they're Japanese themselves?
Also, shit like Super Sonic debuted way before Dragon Ball was even relevant in the west.
Adding on to this, Sonic was always played straight in those games. There was very little, if any comedy at all. Designs be damned, they carried themselves in a straightforward manner. AoSTH was when the slapstick cartoon stuff appeared.
>Sonic was always played straight in those games. There was very little, if any comedy at all.
They're mascot platformer games with very little focus on storytelling, of course there isn't going to constant, in-your-face attempts at humor.
But it's not like the developers weren't aware that they were making games about cartoon animals fighting robots with big googly eyes. Eggman's main plan in 2 and 3 involves a Death Star ripoff with a giant mustache plastered on the front. Sonic's signature animation of the time was looking straight at the player and gesturing towards a non-existant watch. Sonic 3 has a specific cutscene near the end that makes Knuckles look like an idiot.
The IP's cartoonish nature has always been inherent. To act like it has no place whatsoever is just silly.
>But it's not like the developers weren't aware that they were making games about cartoon animals fighting robots with big googly eyes.
That doesn't mean they were portrayed as self-aware and tongue in cheek.
>Eggman's main plan in 2 and 3 involves a Death Star ripoff with a giant mustache plastered on the front.
Typical Japanese visual comedy. The Death Egg was played completely straight, no "LOL HIS FACE IS ON IT XD"
>Sonic's signature animation of the time was looking straight at the player and gesturing towards a non-existant watch.
Not even comedic, that just shows Sonic's character, he hates waiting.
>Sonic 3 has a specific cutscene near the end that makes Knuckles look like an idiot.
That wasn't him being stupid, just shortsighted.
>The IP's cartoonish nature has always been inherent.
There's a difference between cartoonish and zany/comedic/funny. Sonic's artstyle is cartoony. But the story and setting are all played completely straight. It presents itself in a manner that's meant to be taken seriously.
>That doesn't mean they were portrayed as self-aware and tongue in cheek.
Do we need to touch on the toe-tapping animation again?
>Typical Japanese visual comedy. The Death Egg was played completely straight
A space station having a giant mustache on the front isn't something "played completely straight". There was nothing keeping the developers from just making a regular, non-parody space station. They were just having fun with a goofy character like Eggman.
>Not even comedic
It's a blatant fourth-wall break, i.e. another example of the dev team having fun with their characters.
>That wasn't him being stupid, just shortsighted.
I said it made him look like an idiot, which it did. Yet another example of the devs having non-serious fun.
>There's a difference between cartoonish and zany/comedic/funny.
There really isn't, you just want to argue semantics because you take the IP more seriously than its own developers ever did.
>the story and setting are all played completely straight. It presents itself in a manner that's meant to be taken seriously.
Again, there's barely any focus on storytelling in these games in the first place. If they put more focus on including cutscenes then no doubt the developers probably would have included more attempts at comedy, just like already they did in Sonic 3 with the Knuckles example I gave.
This isn't a black-and-white "Sonic can either be serious or non-serious" discussion. It can be both. It's already been both. Wake up.
>Do we need to touch on the toe-tapping animation again?
Again, that is Sonic's personality visualized, someone impatient or hates waiting will tap their foot.
>A space station having a giant mustache on the front isn't something "played completely straight".
In-universe, it is. No one is laughing at the Death Egg's face, they're scared shitless of it and it spawned a bunch of robots when you saw it rise up in the air at Sky Sanctuary.
>It's a blatant fourth-wall break, i.e. another example of the dev team having fun with their characters.
You could spin it that way, and it also showcases Sonic's character, something that was a big deal at the time compared to Mario standing statically.
>There really isn't, you just want to argue semantics because you take the IP more seriously than its own developers ever did.
Don't project. I'm going by what I see when I played those games. Everyone pushing the whole 'cartoon hedgehog fights wacky scientist' shtick comes from a particular sector of the fanbase that shall not be named. The Sonic games on the Genesis and even Gamegear were not comedic romps, they were straightforward stories.
>Again, there's barely any focus on storytelling in these games in the first place.
The game is the story. It doesn't need to beat you with an obvious explanation of what's going, you see what's going on. There's no slapstick or goofiness, it's all a straightforward story.
>This isn't a black-and-white "Sonic can either be serious or non-serious" discussion. It can be both. It's already been both.
So why are you being so anal about me calling the classic games straightforward? You don't think that being played straight means dramatic and edgy, do you?
Gonna back anon up on
>A space station having a giant mustache on the front isn't something "played completely straight"
It absolutely is. A series that takes itself seriously will show you something ridiculous that should break your suspension of disbelief like a giant robot with a moustache on its face, and then have the characters who live in the universe act like and treat it as the existential threat that it is. It lets the comedy come from the fact that YOU think the very serious threat looks silly if you choose to take it that way. A cartoon will mock the fact that the robot looks silly in order to ease tension and show that you are meant to laugh. See also: The difference between AoSTH and SatAM's portrayals of Sonic, VS the OVA's portrayal. The former are cartoons born of the western interpretations, the later is true to the actual tone the series had from the start. We only got cartoon writing in the games starting with Colors.
>It absolutely is.
Not necessarily. You can have characters respond to something in-universe a certain way while still blatantly intending it to be seen as a joke on the audience's part. That's the whole shtick of something like Evil Dead 2.
Being Tongue in Cheek is part of being a good parody. Evil Dead is a good parody.
Early Sonic is not a parody of mascot platformers.
Post Colors Sonic is a parody of Pre Colors Sonic.
>Post Colors Sonic is a parody of Pre Colors Sonic.
Which deserves mockery.
>Evil Dead is a good parody.
Evil Dead isn't a parody, especially the first movie. Evil Dead 2 is specifically a horror movie with comedic elements. Army of Darkness is a comedic adventure film.
Drag Me to Hell by the same director isn't a parody, but another horror movie with comedic elements.
>Again, that is Sonic's personality visualized, someone impatient or hates waiting will tap their foot.
You're intentionally looking over the fourth wall-breaking aspect, which is the point.
>In-universe, it is. No one is laughing at the Death Egg's face, they're scared shitless of it
This isn't an argument. In-universe, nobody shows any particular emotion towards it, they just look up.
>You could spin it that way
I don't have to spin it in any particular way. You don't have your character blatantly break the fourth wall if your intending the audience to take the material 100% seriously. Again, it's a clear instance of the developers having some fun with their own characters.
>Don't project.
How does that even work as a projection if I already don't take the IP that seriously? I was outright describing what you're doing.
>The Sonic games on the Genesis and even Gamegear were not comedic romps
I'm not arguing that they were, I'm saying there are plenty of instances of the early games being inherently cartoonish, and to act like said elements are instead supposed to be taken straight-faced is silly.
>It doesn't need to beat you with an obvious explanation of what's going, you see what's going on.
You realize this also applies to comedy? A joke is not simply confined to spoken dialogue. 2's Death Egg and Mecha Sonic are silly parodies of existing media. The game doesn't need to have the characters point out the silly nature of something for it to be apparent.
>There's no slapstick or goofiness, it's all a straightforward story.
Again, there's barely any story being depicted in the first place, and again, in certain instances there is still humor being depicted (e.g. the Knuckles example again).
>So why are you being so anal about me calling the classic games straightforward?
The whole point of this conversation was about your notion that the classic games featured little-to-no humor whatsoever, as if viewing the series in that manner is "wrong".
>as if viewing the series in that manner is "wrong".
I never said it was wrong, I simply said that the series at least with the classic games were played straight, not that you couldn't see them as humorous. If anything, YOU seem to not like me viewing them as straightforward. Another anon said the same thing I did about the Death Egg.
>There's no slapstick or goofiness, it's all a straightforward story.
Knuckles in Sonic 3 is plenty goofy. Punching a boulder into Sonic in Lava Reef. Repeatably flicking the switch in Mushroom Hill. Punching the Egg mobile Sonic rides in Launch base Only to fall down into the waters once the base launches. Getting shocked by Eggmam as Eggman steals the emerald. Knuckles in 3 is mostly slapstick.
>Punching a boulder into Sonic in Lava Reef.
How is that funny?
>Repeatably flicking the switch in Mushroom Hill.
He does that to blow Sonic away faster.
>Punching the Egg mobile Sonic rides in Launch base Only to fall down into the waters once the base launches.
Kind of silly but not really a slapstick moment. More of a showcase that Knuckles isn’t invincible.
>Getting shocked by Eggmam as Eggman steals the emerald.
How is that funny? They don’t play it for comedy in the slightest. Knuckles is show to still be in pain in Sky Sanctuary.
Guess ol eggy just didnt turn the juice up high enough for moron-kun to get it
Was the freedom planet sequel any good?
I liked the original, it was deviantart kino
If FP1 is Deviantart then FP2 is Tumblr. Loses the edge and gets way more lesbian shipping. Also the creator went troony inbetween games. It looks good and plays nice at least, but its different from the OG. Music is good.
>How? If SEGA/Sonic Team had just kept Sonic's identity consistent, we wouldn't be in this mess
If Sonic had a consistent identity, the series would have probably died in the early 2000s like all the other mascot platformers did. For better or for worse, following industry trends is the reason Sonic has managed to stay relevant for so long.
Not true. It knew exactly what it fricking was in the 90s. It was only after SA1's release that Sonic Team desperately tried to "revitalize" the franchise by throwing a bunch of shit at the wall to see what stuck for nearly a decade.
>If Sonic had a consistent identity, the series would have probably died in the early 2000s like all the other mascot platformers did.
All of the "other" mascot platformers weren't Sonic. Sonic should not be lumped in with the likes of Bubsy or even Crash. (No offense, Crashbros. Just being objective here.)
>following industry trends is the reason Sonic has managed to stay relevant for so long.
>the reason why Sonic is still relevant is because he became a laughing stock during the 2000s when Sonic Team didn't know what the frick to do with the series anymore so they slapped a bunch of whatever was popular at the time into Sonic's games
What? If Sonic stayed consistent he'd be around just like Mario is now, except he'd actually have a solid catalogue of games as an added bonus. I mean, what? You that just because Sega went third party that Sonic as an IP lost all its staying power on its own?
There's a reason why Sonic is still relevant, and it isn't because they gave Shadow a gun and GTA mechanics, turned Sonic into Hog of War, and ripped off Breath of The Wild wholesale, just to name a few: It's because Sonic's design is really, really good, and he was expertly marketed in the 90s to the point that he's become a permanent fixture in the western cultural zeitgeist. No seriously, that's literally it. Where do you think the majority of the income for the Sonic IP originates? Hint: Not the fricking games.
Merchandise, anon. Merchandise. Sonic Team could stop making Sonic games forever and Sega would STILL be selling Classic Sonic themed T-shirts and plushies until the heat death of the universe. The games' income is just a bonus as far as Sega is concerned. Frontiers was most likely a surprise success for them.
>. It was only after SA1's release that Sonic Team desperately tried to "revitalize" the franchise by throwing a bunch of shit at the wall to see what stuck for nearly a decade.
Sonic 3 has much more in common with SA1 and 2 conceptually, aesthetically and thematically than Sonic 1 2 and CD
>Sonic 3 has much more in common with SA1 and 2 conceptually, aesthetically and thematically than Sonic 1 2 and CD
Delusion. Sonic 3 having a dash of silent cinematography to it as level transitions have frickall to do with the tonal disaster of the Dreamcast games. Not even going to mention gameplay because you might be crazy enough to think otherwise too.
>story based around the ancient power guarded by the echidna tribe
>introduce a new character that acts as eggman's pawn for most of the game then turns on him and becomes an ally
>different characters can reach different parts of the level based on their abilities
>continuity between levels
>shounen genre tropes like having a rival to fight against, powering up and achieving a new form, working with your nakama to help get you to the end of the journey
There are a shit ton of parallels both abstract and specific. You sir are the deluded one.
have a nice day
Sonic in the 2000s was a victim of trying to appear "cooler" and "edgier" than its competition (namely Mario), and while Sonic's advertising gimmick always was that it was supposed to be "cooler" since its inception, what was considered cool among children in the 2000s was different from what was cool in the 1990s.
Sonic in the 2000s considerably got far more shonen anime tropey and JRPG tropey down to making him Goku and giving him his own Vegeta and giving Sonic considerably more out-there "I'm 12 years old and my favourite band is Linkin Park and I love Final Fantasy 7" plots and enemy designs.
Eggman getting fricked over by some monster thing for the final boss constantly is such a shitty trope.
Fake Sonic fans complained too much about Adventure kino and Sega actually listened
I kinda hope next game drops Eggman as the main villain entirely. I feel like after Frontiers it's kinda hard to see him as an evil villain.
No, eggman as a villain is still fully on the table. Its just that a route where he can swing sides more often or even be redeemed has been opened with Sage. He'll go from being the ultimate evil overlord to being Sonic's Bowser. The devil we know who we fight against because we cant help it who can be counted on to help fight against the devil we dont know when push comes to shove.
Aparently according to the Frontiers writer, Eggman is just going to act more evil for his daughter now
>the frontiers writer
is this supposed to be someone I dont know or are you talking about Flynn
Flynn yeah. I know he isn't responsible for the story but he is responsible for characterisation
Yeah exactly. This is what Im saying though, For His Daughter is the key phrase. Sage has introduced a character that Eggman actually gives a shit about. That hasnt happened before. Hes been proud of his creations but when they betray him or fail, he writes them off as failures and gos back to the drawing board. No real emotional connection. Sage on the other hand he HAS formed a bond with to the point of being reluctant to send her out to save even his own skin at the end of frontiers. This wouldnt change too much if she was just a perfectly loyal robot with no emotions, but because she has learned about and come to empathize with Sonic, she has the potential to be swayed by him. And If Sonic manages to convince or inspire Sage about something, then by extension Eggman can be influenced to do things he would normally never think to do simply because its what his Daughter wants it, and he wants to do right by her.
Sage is literally the Key to Eggman's heart. They will do wonderful fun evil things together so long as things are under control from eggy's perspective, but when wider stories start up again she is a very easy in for Sonic and crew to get a team up going.
Eggman has always loved his creations, he acting like sage's father doesnt mean he's a good person, he still wants to dominate the world and enslave the mobians. I hate this "le morally gray" villains trend, hollywood and vidya spammed so many of them in midia that people now think every single antagonist is morally gray.
This. Sage is just another way of him being a egomaniac manchild
>I built MY daughter, Look at MY daughter that I built on my OWN
>Father, you are reaching embarrassment levels again.
>Just let me have this.
frick off tripgay, holy shit
>Eggman has always loved his creations
No he doesn’t. SA1 has him discard the E-100 series as soon as they didn’t perfectly perform. Hell the first thing Gamma sees is Metal Sonic sitting dormant in a tube because he failed in Sonic CD.
Whatever pride Eggman has in Sage would be gone the second she screws up and left him trapped in cyberspace against his will. The Eggdad shit is forced as frick.
>Metal Sonic sitting dormant in a tube
Metal Sonic both failed and literally betrayed him and tried to kill him, and Dr.Eggman still keeps him around.
Though the Eggdad thing is a bit forced since it's clear they just wanted to capitalize on the Eggette idea that went around after Mania was released.
Metal didn’t betray him until Heroes. He was perfectly loyal at that point. Eggman still stuck him in a tube because he cannot tolerate failure.
He still kept him around to be used again and again. I'd argue being put into the tube is better then being completely destroyed and replaced with an upgrade.
Hell, Eggman literally did exactly that and STILL goes back to using Metal Sonic.
Eggman was so terrible in this game and so is that relationship with sage. what were they thinking.
Flynn is obsessed with making Eggman more than a ego-centric manchild for whatever reason. It's why his comics had Eggman regularly depicted as a dictator-like figure.
Because he wants so much for IDW to be SatAM/Archie.
Eggman literally was a dictator who imposed his will over the world lol. But Eggman just sucked in frontiers. And that mostly for me stems from the whole thing with sage. So forced and frankly ooc to believe he would act that way knowing how he was beforehand towards his stuff.
>Eggman literally was a dictator who imposed his will over the world lol.
Forces barely makes this apparent. If anything the whole game feels like he's still in the process of conquering shit.
If we're being honest, Eggman sucked in Forces too. The whole premise of "a world conquered by Eggman" was completely wasted, largely due to Sonic Team's moronic idea of introducing a second antagonist even though Infinite adds essentially nothing to the plot. He does nothing that Eggman couldn't have done himself with the Phantom Ruby installed onto the front of his eggmobile.
You're not wrong really. I cant believe they fricked eggman taking over the world so hard. but i still find his frontiers self egregious.
>Sonic Team's moronic idea of introducing a second antagonist
The problem wasn't with the fact there was a secondary antagonist. It was that Infinite was a badly executed character. Honestly the idea of "what if eggman took over the world for real this time" is arguably worse than any backup villain because it requires you to either rewrite the cast or rewrite eggman into completely different characters for it to make sense
Metal Sonic could have been a secondary antagonist and noone would have complained because he's familiar to everyone
>Eggman literally was a dictator who imposed his will over the world lol.
He wants to be that, but he isn't that which is what makes him appealing
>Flynn makes Eggman far more sadistic in the comics. Even in IDW, he unleashes a world-wide plague out of spite.
>Sonic Frontiers humanizes him.
I think it's a Sonic Team thing. Flynn stated in one of the Bumblekasts (I can't remember which one right now) that Eggman's affection for Sage is more out of him having created her rather than out of just having a daughter.
It's cope because it really doesnt seem that way to how he says.
I guess it depends on how much, if any, influence he has going forward. Either way, it's weird to see people blame Flynn for 'softening Eggman up" when Flynn's Eggman is usually one of the more sadistic takes on the character.
For me, it's how they made it so boring.
>Eggman takes over off-screen
>Doesn't do anything interesting with it.
>His bases are generic because it's Serious (TM)
>I think it's a Sonic Team thing.
Didn't the original leaked plot involve Sage being an out-of-control AI? This fits in more with Sonic Team's previous approach to non-Eggman villains, really.
The whole "Eggdad" angle really does come across more as something Flynn came up when Frontiers' narrative was re-worked, dropping the amnesia angle and whatnot. Although in hindsight the whole "Sonic regains his memories" framing would have meshed a lot better with all the blatant meta references Frontiers is filled with.
On one hand, Eggman having a daughter was a thing in the Archie book and Flynn wasn't able to explore it much before being forced to kill her off.
On the other, Flynn wasn't the one who introduced her and a bit before her death, Flynn Eggman reveal that his Egg Grapes are actually an inefficient means of creating power and he basically uses them for shits and giggles. So I don't think there'd be any worry of Eggman losing his edge.
>So I don't think there'd be any worry of Eggman losing his edge.
I'm not really concerned with Eggman's "edge". I don't really want Eggman to be presented as some super-evil villain anyway.
I'm more concerned that Eggman having a daughter-like figure will end up taking focus away from Eggman essentially being in love with himself, which is an aspect of the character I've always liked. Then again, maybe it won't. Flynn has implied otherwise, but he also tends to say shit that's a bit dubious at the end of the day. I guess we'll see.
Yeah, we'll see. Hopefully Sage fits more as "an assistant who's also his daughter" mold.
>I'm more concerned that Eggman having a daughter-like figure will end up taking focus away from Eggman essentially being in love with himself, which is an aspect of the character I've always liked.
In all honesty, the generic presentation of his empire in Forces is more concerning to me than Sage in that regard. Metropolis doesn't look like an "Eggman capital city".
?t=423
Was there an easter egg in Black Knight or something?
Though now that I look at it, is that Evil Foundry? Or did he drop the lamp into a random pit?
Yeah that's Evil Foundery. I forget if the lava cooled or not afer Sonic killed Ifrit.
making sonic too serious and epic is the entire reason sonic sucks
I prefer "serious and epic" Sonic over "baldy nosehair" Sonic
fricking moron
I would like a husbando mobian villain that just kicks everyone's ass and isn't a jobber like Infinite. You know, a villain that is actually a threat and is intimidating? Eggman hasn't really been intimidating for quite some time. We haven't had one since Shadow and Shadow became an Anti-Hero.
NEVER EVER
You will CONTINUE to enjoy 1 off characters with each new game who are “secretly good” at most, trust the plan
Mephiles is never coming back anon
They said that about Black Doom and look at him now
Wait, how long has Shadow had flames coming out of his shoes? I always thought it was supposed to be air. Looks kinda weird to be honest.
For a while now.
Since SA2
i thought those were sparks coming off the ground
>implying that the boss fights in Shadow generations won't be Biolizard, Mephiles, Black Doom, and Devil Doom
baka, ngmi
>Sonic should just go fast and hit teh bad guys
classicucks got everything they wanted and almost killed the franchise
We're healing.
Having Eggman constantly get upstaged by some monster strained his credibility as a villain
Having him get humiliated in every cutscene post colors did way more to harm his reputation than any of the 2000’s era games did.
There's a big difference between Eggman getting humiliated after he's already been defeated as the final boss VS him getting BTFO by the thing he was trying to control
Thing is him being a final boss has 0 weight in colors. Everytime he appears in a cutscene he’s getting humiliated in some fashion. If it was just Sonic insulting him it would be fine but even his own dumb robot goons constantly shit talk him and he just takes it like a b***h. He can’t even make a super villain laugh without getting out of breath and coughing. Why bother making him the final boss if he’s just going to be a clown the whole game anyway?
Because he's the franchise villain, just like how Bowser is usually the last boss despite being an even bigger joke.
Eggman as the final boss has no stakes after the classics. He is the main villain of the series but in most games you fight him throughout the game unlike Bowser which usually gets three matches in through out a game. It's diminishing returns, by the time you get to final boss Eggman. He isn't a threat anymore since you fought him through every zone. The monster or side villain helps keep the final boss as a threat. Sega could also just have other villains fight the player throughout the game so it's not just Eggman.
Sonic keeps killing his other villains despite being a moral gay
IDW Sonic is a moral gay. Game Sonic just stops villains from harming others so he is okay with killing. He would likely have killed Chaos if Tikal didn't intervene. There also some they can still use like Eggman Nega, Gun, Metal Sonic, The robot pirates from Rush Adventure.
Game Sonic's kill count is still pitifully low. The only legitimate kill is King Arthur who was a illusion created by Merlina.
King Arthur was only an "illusion" in the sense that Merlin created him with magic to be the benevolent ruler England needed
He was still a physical person born to parents
>He would likely have killed Chaos if Tikal didn't intervene.
I don't know if the JP script was different but isn't Sonic the one who talks Tikal out of sealing Chaos away forever?
He does. Tails also talks about how Super Sonic will be able to use his positive energy to cancel out Chaos's negative energy. This might be headcanon but it feels like Sonic leaves his foes with like 1hps and just leaves them be. If you die, he doesn't think much of it. If you live, he'll just fight you again next time.
Who are the villains that Sonic has just straight up killed?
King Arthur.
>vanquished a magical illusion
>threw a genie's lamp into a vault
>robots that are literally not sentient
Grasping at straws, I see.
He definitely killed Erazor Djinn.
Secret Rings and Black Knight were honestly kind of kino.
>kino
Considering they're only enjoyable through watching a cutscene compilation on an online video platform, in this instance "kino" would be appropriate depsite being used to describe a Modern Sonic game.
Black Knight is enjoyable. You actually get to use a control stick so the on rails structure isn't finicky
Sonic went Shadow that game after absorbing the negative energy of the rings
Nope. Erazor is eternally imprisoned in a lamp but still alive.
Didn't his lamp get melted down?
It's funny reading this list of deaths in the Sonic series and seeing the ones Sonic caused. https://listofdeaths.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic It also counts robots since they have ai/brains.
Emerl being a villain is kinda of a bigass stretch sense he had no choice in the final matter of things after Eggman tricked him. Sonic had no choice but to stop him.
>11 Black Knights - Killed by Sonic
>King Arthur's Horse - Head cut off by Sonic.
>King Arthur - Head cut off by Sonic.
His lamp was thrown into a vat of lava.
The Lamp isn't melted down. Secret Rings ends with Sonic still having the lamp
Isn't King Arthur also questionable because Sonic bullshited the entirety of Black Knight to Amy?
It counts Dark Gaia as dead even though it's still alive. Dormant but alive. This list is...something
Bowser doesn’t have two annoying minions who do nothing but go “wow, you really think kidnapping the princess is going to work this time? Haven’t you failed like hundreds of times before? Mario’s going to kick your butt as usual.” That kind of humor is Dorkly tier.
Fits Sonic better than being all serious and having him fight rejects from Final Fantasy.
It really doesn’t
Opinion.
It's another east vs west thing really. Burgers seem to think that because something is made to appeal to a wider audience beyond its region of origin must mean that it must only be appealing to them. Sonic was designed with western sensibilities but was generally designed to appeal to all audiences, it just happened that it succeeded more in the West.
When you actually look into Sonic, almost everything about it from the 90s is based on pop culture a lot of it from Japan too.
The Adventure games and the 2000s games in general are very tokusatsu esque in how they handle a lot of these villains especially with Chaos and the Biolizard looking like Kaijus and Metal Sonic turning into Mecha Godzilla (which is even referenced in SA1)
>which is even referenced in SA1
That's a carry-over from Sonic 2. Mecha Sonic in 2 is a blatant parody of Mechagodzilla, down to the shoulder initials.
I've found that most so-called weebs are really in the dunning-kruger zone. They almost have eyes, but they can't really see or perceive actual reality. Japanese entertainment isn't particularly what they think it is. Japan is, and always has been, based around cute culture and comedy, first and foremost, and think this is a thing that most overseas audiences don't necessarily get straight away, or even really realize. Japanese entertainment is typically more similar to Mario and Dragon Quest, where things are quite laidback and silly. Because Sonic was originally incredibly comedic and light-hearted, if you solely look at the original work that was created. It's a game about a mascot character fighting a fat naughty man who builds robot crabs and wasps. That's a literal interpretation of the original game. This is something designed to appeal to 6 year old girls in Japan, similar to something like Kirby. Don't forget that the best-selling MD game in Japan wasn't Sonic, it was Puyo Puyo. The real Westernization of Sonic is making it more so-called edgy. Because of Sonic's popularity in the West and its perceived coolness, I think the developers actively kept tipping the scales to make it more brooding and epic. This is apparent in how Sonic 2 and 3 were developed in the US, and leaned heavier into this style. This is apparent in how SA2 dropped the goofy and comedic Amy and Big, and replaced them with Shadow and Rouge upon the request of Western fans. SA1 was a return of Sega trying to appeal to Japan, and it had mixed results. With the possible exception of Heroes and GBA, all Sonic games made in the 2000's were created primarily for the overseas audience.
>That kind of humor is Dorkly tier.
That kind of humor is literally of the same era that Colors released in, so its inclusion makes sense.
Aside from that, Eggman having two buffoon sidekicks who regularly question his shit is nothing new for the IP, or even Sonic Team, considering their oversight on Sonic X's production.
The two bumbling minions usually do something. Scratch and Grounder set up Wille coyote-like traps. Decoe and Bocoe gave him his cards in Sonic X. Orbot and Cubot literally do nothing but nag at him. It makes no sense why someone as egotistical as Eggman would ever keep them around.
Colors showed Orbot and Cubot cleaning up Eggman's ruined mech and attempting to catch a Wisp, so clearly Eggman sends them out on specific errands.
>being an even bigger joke
Mario has never beaten Bowser without help, he's always had to rely on environmental hazards, power ups and/or teammates.
Eggman *can* be a bigger threat to Sonic than Bowser is to Mario at times, but it's far from the norm.
>Mario has never beaten Bowser without help, he's always had to rely on environmental hazards, power ups and/or teammates.
This has always been so lame to me, I know it's a cartoon platformer but it really feels like Bowser often just lets Mario win. The only satisfying Bowser kills are doing it with a powerup
Or, you know, Bowser is just a big brute who thinks things through even less than Eggman does.
Bowser is only treated as a joke in games where he isn't the villain, like Mario & Luigi 3 and Thousand Year Door.
In games where he's the final boss, he's usually played pretty straight as a villain.
Even in Odyssey where he acts very camp with a silly motivation, he never gets upstaged at all and has multiple cutscene victories against Mario.
Forces was unironically the perfect opportunity to bring back a SATAM like version of the character. The last time Eggman was remotely menacing was SA2 and one line of dialogue from Lost World.
Haha funny egg man build robots and go "take a look at this"
?t=3
Boco you are a fricking moron and I am completely flabbergasted at how moronic your post is I can't even begin to explain how wrong your post is
Sonic is a blue hedgehog that runs fast, fighting an egg-shaped manchild designed after Teddy Roosevelt who wants to turn the world into a carnival.
How is any of that supposed to be taken seriously?
By choosing to.
And look how well its turned out.
Because I am no longer a child and I want my favorite video games, that are made to children, to be more serious and edgy so I can live in my childhood forever and ignore reality
Plenty of people do take it seriously. You are a vocal minority if you don’t.
Look at how many fans of Shadow there are. Look at how many fans want a child to get shot in the third Sonic movie. The actress even celebrated her getting the role as Maria by dressing up as a bodybag.
People love the dark aspects of the series, it’s what makes Sonic stand out from all the other forgotten 90’s mascot platformers.
>The actress even celebrated her getting the role as Maria by dressing up as a bodybag.
People keep saying this but it seems to me that it's more likely that she wanted to cover her face so we don't see what she will look like in the movie.
It could be both.
tbf Eggman had his serious moments in the classic games too
like the bad futures in CD
or when he firebombed an entire forest in 3&K
or when he tried to make that Death Star ripoff
The thing about goofy premises is they only don't work if the actual game doesn't take it seriously. If nobody mentions that it's off then it's not.
Super Sonic > the great evil Eggman wanted to use to beat Sonic > Sonic > Eggman
Generations was relased in 2011 and Time Eater fit the abomination look.
Time Eater was functionally just a robot being controlled by Eggman, he doesn't lose control of it like the other "abominations"
It's still a time devouring monster. Just because it doesn't slap Eggman out of the plot doesn't change that it's the thing you fight for the final boss.
where does this rank?
between 2000s and 2010s
forcedkino
I love how Sonic Team's incompetence resulted in this boss blatantly clipping into the landscape whenever it spins around, with said spinning adding nothing to boss fight anyway.
Is that something you'd even notice during the boss fight. Half of game development is not bothering with shit no player will reasonably see.
>Is that something you'd even notice during the boss fight
Seeing as I noticed it, yes, it is.
Silent films died out for a reason
The Story in classic games is told through a manual.
>Biolizard may be based on Chaos
It is amazing how autistic some people can get about the "lore" of this series, and yet are still ignorant on very basic elements that were written out years ago.
This. Biolizard is just a lizard experiment because Lizards can regenerate tails and Gerald wanted to heal Maria with it. Sometimes the curtain is just blue
Or it could just be both you fun-hating homosexuals.
>Or it could just be both
But it isn't both.
is canon to SA2's story (I have no idea if modern Sonic Team even remembers this, though, last I checked I think they also retconned the origin of Shadow's name). Shadow appearance being based on the Hidden Palace mural is also just fanon shit. Sorry the writing isn't as deep as you think it is.
It wasn't fanon at first. It was in Rouge's Report, one of those behind the scenes lore documents Japan makes then never localizes.
>It wasn't fanon at first.
I was talking talking about the mural bit regarding fanon. I remember back when it was first being thrown around as a fan theory on message boards back in the mid/late-2000s.
Ok, and what about that exactly prevents the design from having anything to do with Perfect Chaos?
Sonic Team gave an exact explanation on why the Biolizard is a lizard: it's a mutated lizard.
It has nothing to do with Chaos, a serpentine-like creature. It's shape was not "designed" by Gerald in any specific way.
>fact
>entirely separate claim
so are you going to answer his question or
It was already answered. Sonic Team's explanation for the Bioloziard is that it's a lizard haphazardly mutated through Gerald's experiments. Gerald did not design its appearance to invoke a specific being.
And the reason that this somehow invalidates its resemblance to Perfect Chaos regardless of Gerald's supposed intent is because you said so. Got it.
>this somehow invalidates its resemblance to Perfect Chaos
It holds no resemblance to Perfect Chaos. It's not a water creature nor is it a serpent.
>because you said so
Because Sonic Team said so. If there was any real tie between the Biolizard and Chaos they would have also outright explained so, because they're not very good writers.
That was true once.
>bowser gays
?si=MlwYu0ZQbveaFLB9&t=347
classicgays b***hed extremely hard and the monkey's paw curled.
Everyone was b***hing back then about it being too serious among other crap like the too many friends spiel
>too serious
The only people who ever have this complaint are manchildren who need whedon-tier quips and jokes ruining every story.
Demonizing humor isn't mature.
>y-you're immature if you don't need whedon quips!
Who is this quote from?
(You)
prostitute
I've played through 1, CD, 2, 3&K for the first time in probably 15 years using the Taxman ports and 3 AIR. I thought I loved these games before but I have a whole new appreciation for them, 2 and 3&K are downright brilliant. 1 I've always liked, but being able to spin and drop dash in it, along with go super and elemental shields make the slower zones so much more fun. CD is still a mess level design wise though. I also recently got true end on Triple Trouble 16bit, and am gonna play Mania soon. Sonic is becoming one of my favourite series again, something I couldn't say since being 11. I hope Fallen Star is as good as Triple Trouble was as well.
It's kind of funny how the Sonic universe has undergone multiple cataclysmic humanitarian disasters that are "apparently" all canon. You have in order:
The awakening of an ancient god of destruction leading to a massive tsunami hitting a major metropolitan area causing casualties at a bare minimum in the tens of thousands that probably would have taken billions of dollars and decades to recover from.
A massive terrorist attack leading to half of the fricking moon being blown up by said terrorists. The ecological impacts alone are terrifying, and who knows how many chunks of moon ended up impacting the Earth's surface.
I could never get the chaos emeralds in Heroes but I think Metal Sonic built a massive fleet of airships to do... something? I guess no one died horribly there at least.
A literal planetary wide alien invasion. Shit that's like what a couple of billion dead plus whatever long term side effects of having Earth's ecosystem contaminated by alien life forms? The the amount of relief aid required after that has got to be in the multiple trillions.
Another ancient god of destruction that split apart the planets crust... I mean it seems like everyone was mostly fine in Unleashed but ripping apart the Earth's crust has got to have caused like a couple of dozen of natural disasters right?
Sonic 06 has time straight up collapse but I guess it doesn't matter since the game retcons itself out of mattering.
What the frick is even going on in Forces, why are there animal people, where did the humans go. How does Shadow's arc even work if there are no humans to be mad at? Why is Silver even there?
It's not weird that any one event happened. It's that they ALL happened in one timeline and no one seems to acknowledge all of the billions that have had to have died over the course of this series.
Apparently, no one died from Perfect Chaos attacking Station Square, not a single casualty.
If you question this, you will be met with either a like-minded person who understands that even if this is stupid and doesn't make any sense it is still canon, or a defensive and irrational Sonic fan who will unironically say "it makes sense because Sonic Team wanted it to make sense" in response to a narrative inconsistency being laid out for all to see.
Oh, well that's still billions of dollars worth of infrastructure that needs to be replaced and like a bunch disaster refugees. But nah it's just fun to think about, how Eggman is an S-tier terrorist who probably should have been assassinated by the governments of the world for his crimes against humanity.
Any damage done is fixed the moment the credits roll, this series doesn't have consequence permanence, it can't, the status quo won't let it.
This is especially funny and sad with the context of Sonic's speech in Forces, the one game that should've had massive lasting consequences.
Imagine if Mario fans wrote essays about the tanks and hell-inspired worlds in Mario 3 were "comedic, but serious and deep". That's what Sonic fans on Ganker do all the time, and it's completely odd to me..
What did he mean by this
He was going to eat Tails.
The point of each characters' story in SA1 is that you're seeing things from the individual characters' perspective (hence why certain shared cutscenes have slightly different dialogue), so Eggman spewing out a line that sounds more threatening than usual is due to the player seeing Eggman from Tails' perspective, who is generally scared of Eggman when Sonic isn't around to back him up. The overcoming of said fear is a large point of his arc.
Did you play Frontiers?
The End is round. Eggman is also round. They're practically the same.
>2024 = 2010's
Yknow he was kinda cute till he opened his mouth
I love this series bros
moron
*unsheathes katakana*
Do Time Eater and Dark Gaia count?
>Time Eater
Was converted into a robot by Eggman by that point. Probably doesn't.
>Dark Gaia
I forgot, did Dark Gaia even die or did he just go back to sleep?
Metal Sonic is definitely sentient. Ditto Mecha. The e-series robots seem like more of a crapshoot. The general badniks, I'd assume no, except for the Egg Pawns.
Dark Gaia can't die, it just went back to sleep to wake up when its meant too
Monsters don't count.
The E -series literally have Flickies inside of them that work as their brains.
Orbot and Cubot are literally comic relief, so if they won't ever ACTUALLY get destroyed.
>The E -series literally have Flickies inside of them
That's like, true for a bunch of badniks though. So would those be sentient?
For the purposes of this argument, no. Whenever the badnik is destroyed, the animal escapes. Sonic would have to also kill the animal for it to count as him "killing" the badnik. It's like saying you killed a Gundam pilot if you blow up his Gundam when he's already escaped to safety.
But if the gundam could articulate thoughts, then you'd be killing something sentient.
SAPIENT. Sentience is merely being alive. Sapience is having deep thoughts and questions. A frog is sentient, but not sapient.
I always assumed that Badniks had animals that act as power sources, but those with higher functioning minds might have the influence of the animal leak through in some cases. I kind of always accepted that cartoon logic.
I also always assumed some of the more higher end badniks used more expensive but efficient power sources. Like Metal Sonic probably doesn't have one.
Omega doesn't use an animal for power. The chance one of Eggman's robots goes rogue us tied to how he programmed it, and/or if it was influenced by outside forces, like with his police robots and Master Core: ABIS in Zero Gravity.
>Omega doesn't use an animal for power
Do we actually know that? Every single other E-100 series robot did
If he did then he doesn't anymore. No way would Shadow and Rogue leave that in him knowingly, and neither would Tails (who I assume is who maintains him, I don't know who else could be.)
Also in the comics everything but his head gets destroyed and he is fine, so he is probably just built different.
06 shows him reactivate after 200 years so unless his animal is kept in stasis he presumably has a different power source.
I don't think all his rogue robots were like that, but Gamma at least was. In some way the Flicky influenced him, as we see its memories through his eyes.
Omega went rogue seemingly out of spite, and Metal Sonic when it has happened was due to faulty programming or also spite.
In Gemerl's case he was just straight reprogrammed for it. I think the reasons his AI go rogue vary heavily.
>Like Metal Sonic probably doesn't have one.
The Sonic CD manual goes into surprising detail about Metal's specs. He doesn't use animals for power, or at least he doesn't seem to.
https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_CD/Manuals#Metal_Sonic
In Chaotix, it's suggested his new body is running off of Dark Ring energy.
E-series are not sentient outside of Gamma post Amy confrontation.
Omega
Omega is in the same camp as Gamma. Somehow gained sentience and rebelled against Eggman. Omega is probably based on Gamma too.
Are the robots in Sonic sentient? Gamma and Omega, yeah. Orbot and Cubot yeah. What about the others?
I unironically like both. Big fricking monsters are cool but Eggman kicks ass and Sonic tends to have good giant robot designs.
I just want them to stop reusing the same wisp fight over and over like jesus stop it.
>Egg Nega Wisp has a neat gimmick of using the color powers just like you've been the entire game, complete with announcer.
>Lost World and Forces reuse the boss moveset while completely removing that context, diminishing the original fight by wearing out its welcome.
Why
Sonic needs a rogues gallery. Eggman, Metal and Fang are the only recurring villains I can think of that aren’t dead or redeemed.
Aren't the Zetis and Infinite alive? They suck but they're alive.
Zeti are still around. Infinite is 100% confirmed dead in the encyclopaedia.
They should make a spiritual successor to SA2/Heroes that lets you play as 4 different teams including Eggman and then give each their own ending with Super forms.
And then a final story that completely invalidates all of those and makes Sonic the one true hero.
NOOOOOOOO
They should make a Chao Garden game.
>Sonic Final Bosses in 2020's
Hope you're ready for the next Generation of Sonic
But that was just the first boss
The end was a mass production eva and the black moon from when Rei causes instrumentality
Human men
the finallizard
Perfect Water
Metal dragon
Eggman still caused most of that shit in the 2000s games
Sonic killed The End.
It's obviously not a morally bad thing to do, but we're not trying to argue morals, we're arguing whether or not Sonic has taken a persons life, which he has, The End was inarguably intelligent, malevolent and arrogant, only people can mean to be evil.