i would say ff11 was the last good pve mmo
they ruined it now, but when it released it had just the right mix of pacing, immersion, and social elements
eureka was not like FFXI. it was a pale approximation of a few of its systems but lacked the sense of adventure that brought it together. on top of which, xiv’s combat was not designed for such a system and is very boring to grind with.
There are people that still do Eureka to this day, in fact when I did bozja/eureka it's like an entirely different community with people actually using the chat function and just joining random parties and chilling with like minded individuals
Weird self-report to think its immediately talking about you. This is an issue with most MMOs and other games coming out lately. Last Epoch was pretty much dead on the right side image.
blizzard hired some top EQ raiding guild to help them design WoW and they designed the living world elements out of mmos in favor of streamlining raiding pipeline.
now instead of being a world simulator where progression was nearly infinite and multifaceted mmos were about not standing in red things and capping out on progression then waiting for the next raid to come out.
As time has progressed post WoW more and more of the vestigial living world elements WoW still had have been refined out further
>blizzard hired some top EQ raiding guild to help them design WoW and they designed the living world elements out of mmos in favor of streamlining raiding pipeline.
This needs to be talked about more. The people who made vanilla WoW what it was did it BEFORE Jeff Kaplan and the Everquest people were hired on. The game was 3/4 of the way complete before they got hired on.
Then Blizz laid people off shortly after release, and the culture and design of the game shifted to favor what the EQ people, who managed to not get laid off, favored.
>play a classic MMO >use less braincells than a modern MMO >causes me to fall asleep
You know we can play the old ones right? This image doesn't disprove reality.
The audience asked for all of this. If you actually played a lot of MMOs back in the day you'd always see people whinging and wanting shit to be easier. Now everything is "easier" but still tedious because the devs still need some kind of treadmill to keep people on, so nothing really changed because the grind is still here and it didn't get any easier. People still grind just as much as they did before except devs have figured out that you can get people to stick around even longer with dailies.
Now MMOs don't have a soul and are meant to appeal to whales and players who want pure solo experiences with absolutely zero incentive to group up, but don't want to play single player games.
It's a societal thing anon. People are becoming increasingly isolated and mistrustful in the modern world due to sociopolitical and technological reasons. Adding to that things like the rona and you can see why it's become so difficult.
The covid years were the last years that MMORPGs actually felt social. Everything was booming more than ever and felt a bit more like the old days. After covid fizzled out it just kinda bled slowly and still is. Doesn't help that MMO devs are increasingly becoming out of touch to what makes the genre what it is.
It was social because everything else IRL was doubly antisocial from the usual. But still in things like retail everyone kept on preferring solo (though that's also a game design issue). Only in Classic you could witness something of the "good old days".
It was always less about asking to make things easier in terms of actual difficulty but to be less tedious in terms of social dynamics. Raiding with 40 people is really fun, wrangling 40 people to raid with is one of the levels of hell. Dividing loot among your party to make it the strongest is interesting, arguing with strangers who don’t give a teeny tiny shit about anybody else and think they deserve everything is horrible. Finding somebody to sell an item that you don’t need anymore or just crafted to is fun, competing with the israelites, chinks, and nolifers on the AH who undercut you at every turn is not.
In terms of genuine gameplay difficulty modern MMOs are a million times more difficult than stuff even 10 years ago, and the older ones like vanilla WoW or EQ are so brain dead easy it’s almost insulting to the player.
People also discount how readily knowledge is available nowadays. If you get stuck anywhere in five seconds you’ll find a dozen guides and threads telling you exactly what the solution is, 20 years ago you asked in chat and your friends list and if nobody knew you were out of luck.
I've always wondered how an MMO would do if it removed the hierarchal top down nature of guilds. Instead of having an official guild you had to be invited to or friend invites you send, have the game keep track of who you party with and recommend them as a friends list.
Albion has a sort of "global" guild system where you have to pledge allegiance to a faction and then players run guilds under those nations. I think systems like this have been tried in other games too but it really helps with the social aspect by almost immediately pitting the player in an "us vs them" scenario and giving you a side. Additionally makes care bears less scared of open world PvP mechanics as they will have 1/3rd-1/4th of the server on their side for free.
>no mmorpg will ever succeed in the future unless whales, groomers and carebears are banned on sight
Why would they ban their highest paying customers?
Exactly. back in the golden age of MMOs, mass communication and cooperation within a game was a novel concept. Now we have online multiplayer in most games, VR chatrooms, social media.
The people who played them used to make MMOs interesting. Now those kinds of people all moved onto social media leaving behind all the ultra loser neckbeards and mental invalids nobody likes not even themselves
Are you moronic? Zoomers have no connection to most remakes they’re an uncertain market unlike soillenials who can’t shut the frick up about the slop they consumed when they were younger
>they’re an uncertain market
zoomers are the most certain market that has ever existed. your entire generation is deflated mass of play-dough ripe for exploitation and disposal.
Explain why every trending game for the past few years has only the smallest of similarities to each other. If it was such a certain market then they'd all be the same FPS and zombie shooters millennials were forced to endure.
>Are you moronic? Zoomers have no connection
Yet it is zoomers that show up to buy these shitty slop remakes because they cant play the original because its "too dated"
Millenials already playing that garbage decades ago moron, zoomers are the ones that refuse to play anything old because "it looks too old" so they need to apply a new coat of paint to old shit for them to actually play it
You mean how some millennials are nostalgic for 80s? "Born in the wrong generation" is not a new thing.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>You mean how some millennials are nostalgic for 80s?
honestly never heard of such a case
im aware of people liking cyberpunk scifi themes in a fictional 80s or the 80's dream of the 2000s. 80s is just a low tech 90s, with a whole decade more before anything gets interesting
2 months ago
Anonymous
I must be the only person who hates having been born in the 80's. The technology was primitive and so were the videogames. Turning 18 today is far better than turning 18 in the 90's. The games and tech my nephew takes for granted today would have blew my fricking mind as a kid.
That's not even getting into the sheer amount of games on offer and the ridiculously cheap prices for those games and all the sales on Steam, Xbox Store & PSN.
Smartphones and tablets were literally science fricking fiction I could only dream about after watching Star Trek.
Gamers and tech nerds coming of age have never had it better.
I see the just thinking about it.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>. Turning 18 today is far better than turning 18 in the 90's
HA
2 months ago
Anonymous
Let me guess, you shame men for being virgins while also calling out women with a high bodycount?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Correct, zoomers are perhaps the most moronic generation in mankind history
2 months ago
Anonymous
>You mean how some millennials are nostalgic for 80s?
this doesnt happen. people born in the 90s dont want to life in the 80s and people born in the 80s dont want to life in the 70s
you are the first generation that wants to ape their parents life. my mother who was dancing in the disco would never want to be like her mother LOL. zoomers are truly cursed
2 months ago
Anonymous
frick off. "le born in the wrong generation" was such a meme people were actively laughing at others for it.
The ever present "ahh the music was so good back then" under music from old bands from 70s and 80s. Same with movies. It's something that happens every generation, don't pretend like it's a new thing.
2 months ago
Anonymous
nope. you can cope with it all you want. your generation is the first one that failed to create its own culture or subculture. all you do is ape the things from other generations. you cant even come up with your own memes
2 months ago
Anonymous
>xe says while scrolling through xer folder "remember what they took from you" with deepfried 50s ads
You will never be 50s american with a picket fence.
2 months ago
Anonymous
and you will never have your own subcultures your generation is trash.
2 months ago
Anonymous
but enough about millennials
2 months ago
Anonymous
i accept your defeat zoomer
2 months ago
Anonymous
>goth culture
stolen from 80s goths >metal
stolen from 80s metal >emo
stolen from early 90s emo >hipster
that one goes straight to 50s
that's a lot of unique culture you have there, shitlennial. Care to explain yourself? What was so uniquely yours, again?
2 months ago
Anonymous
im glad im not a ugly zoomer youre truly part of the worst shit generation ever to exist. your generation is fricking trash lol
2 months ago
Anonymous
>no arguments
I accept your concession.
>>goth culture
zoomer intelligence right here
Yeah, the shitty consumerist mallgoth version of 80s subculture, that you gays are so proud of.
2 months ago
Anonymous
thank god im not a zoomer
2 months ago
Anonymous
your stepdad should've beat you way more and raped you way less
It's not weird, millenials literally had the best childhood. The internet was starting, amazing video games, and the future looked hopeful.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Objectively true. I could go out and scrape my knees playing football with the lads on the park, having all kinds of crazy fun healthy for the age and then go home and play Pokemon Blue in my gameboy or Panzer Dragoon II Zwei in my Sega Saturn. It was the perfect balance.
Even 90's tv and movies were leagues better.
And now I feel nostalgic. Frick.
2 months ago
Anonymous
It was the tail end of the 80's economic boom. Returns were guaranteed so even the big sleazy companies just hired real artists, writers and programmers then let them do whatever they wanted.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Objectively true. I could go out and scrape my knees playing football with the lads on the park, having all kinds of crazy fun healthy for the age and then go home and play Pokemon Blue in my gameboy or Panzer Dragoon II Zwei in my Sega Saturn. It was the perfect balance.
Even 90's tv and movies were leagues better.
And now I feel nostalgic. Frick.
The 90's and 00's were transitional decades where we had the perfect balance between "modern life" and "traditional life". We had technology, but it didn't dominate every facet of life - we had lives outside of technology. The internet was for nerds, and most information you wanted to know was still in the library or you needed to know someone.
I feel more alone now than I did being an ostracized dork sitting at the nerd table in high school. Giving the internet and social media to normies was the worst thing to happen to humanity.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>and the future looked hopeful.
yeah, we liberals fought back against censorous religious twats and won.... just so my fellow liberals devolved into censorous peeminists and woketrannies.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Also an exciting era for the internet, movies and games, with CGI revolutionizing the movie industry and 3D revolutionizing the gaming industry.
IMO, the only forms of entertainment that kind of sucked in the 90's-to-mid 2000's was music and to some extent, TV.
2 months ago
Anonymous
this, it's literally been nothing but downhill, for every innovation, like high speed internet and smartphones, we've been cursed with social media and hypergamy
And I wish I was born in the 60s instead of the 90s..
I might have had an easier time owning a house.
These stupid Black folk think it’s nostalgia.
It’s just pining for a better time. Like before everything was completely FRICKED.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>t.
2 months ago
Anonymous
this is stupid. Women were working a lot of the factories and mills during WW2 while all the men were overseas, so they gained new opportunity and WANTED jobs
2 months ago
Anonymous
So if women have to work jobs, that means they want to. Before WW2, since they weren't working these jobs, that must mean they didn't want to. What is it about world wars specifically that make women want to work?
2 months ago
Anonymous
>So if women have to work jobs, that means they want to. Before WW2, since they weren't working these jobs, that must mean they didn't want to.
because they were mens jobs, and women were sewers mother or cooks. Mechanics and industry were men. With them gone, women had a chance to do that
what part of this is confusing to you?
2 months ago
Anonymous
That's not what you said. You said because women had to work these jobs, all of a sudden they WANTED to. Before they had to work these jobs, how could you tell they wanted to?
2 months ago
Anonymous
>You said because women had to work these jobs
when and where did I say that?
2 months ago
Anonymous
I'm sorry, you're right. Then how do you know women wanted to work these jobs and not that they had to?
2 months ago
Anonymous
well lets think
would you WANT to be a stay at home wife sewing all day while your husband/son/brother gets shot at by tojo and fritz, or would you want to work on cars or for the war effort to end the war
2 months ago
Anonymous
The former, of course.
2 months ago
Anonymous
history says otherwise
2 months ago
Anonymous
Granting that that survey is true - what percent of the female population actually went to work these jobs?
2 months ago
Anonymous
More than six million women took wartime jobs in factories, three million volunteered with the Red Cross, and over 200,000 served in the military. Women’s auxiliary branches were created for every branch of the military, including the Women’s Army Corps (WAC), Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service (WAVES), and Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASP). Women were restricted from combat zones; however, many became nurses to help the men injured in combat.
2 months ago
Anonymous
And what was the total female population at that time? In the survey, what was the alternative to keeping these jobs? Were they asked if they would prefer to be jobless or have a job? Were they asked if they would rather be a mother and a housekeeper or have a job?
2 months ago
Anonymous
>this is stupid. Women were working a lot of the factories and mills during WW2 while all the men were overseas, so they gained new opportunity and WANTED jobs
So if women have to work jobs, that means they want to. Before WW2, since they weren't working these jobs, that must mean they didn't want to. What is it about world wars specifically that make women want to work?
>So if women have to work jobs, that means they want to. Before WW2, since they weren't working these jobs, that must mean they didn't want to. What is it about world wars specifically that make women want to work?
>So if women have to work jobs, that means they want to. Before WW2, since they weren't working these jobs, that must mean they didn't want to.
because they were mens jobs, and women were sewers mother or cooks. Mechanics and industry were men. With them gone, women had a chance to do that
what part of this is confusing to you?
>because they were mens jobs, and women were sewers mother or cooks. Mechanics and industry were men. With them gone, women had a chance to do that > >what part of this is confusing to you?
this convo is so stupid it hurts
2 months ago
Anonymous
Can you show women want to work these jobs without using circular reasoning?
2 months ago
Anonymous
the fricking irony using that pic
2 months ago
Anonymous
It's okay, grant him the picture for the sake of argument.
90's pop culture influence was still very present until like 2007. If they were a toddler around that time and has an elder sibling or more, they probably vaguely remember they watched their big bro playing GTA San Andreas, the MTV top chart, etc. The yearning came from that vague feeling and incomplete memories of how the life in that era truly was.
2002 here.
I had a PS1 since the day of my birth (Gift to my brother before he got a good PC) and until 2011, when i got a PS3 gifted for christmas. I've known a few folks who had a PS1 too, and lots of my friends would play in coop on mine when i invited them over. Growing up with that gen while being a zoomer is nothing unusual.
What i'm saying is that your pic sucks. If she had an NES or a Genesis era console in the pic, then yes, that pic would fit your point, but being a zoomer and experiencing n64/ps1/saturn is nothing unusual.
>That's your generation
I literally only ever see millennials jerk off these shitty remakes, disingenuous gay. Very rarely do I see zoomers jerking off remakes.
zoomers literally cant play "old" games untill they get REMADE. stop lying to yourself worthless zoomer. these games get a massive influx of zoomer fans once they do a REMAKE
I cannot for the life of me understand how a genre that hinges around multiplayer gameplay is now completely overtaken by homosexuals who want to play solo.
It's a societal thing anon. People are becoming increasingly isolated and mistrustful in the modern world due to sociopolitical and technological reasons. Adding to that things like the rona and you can see why it's become so difficult.
well anon, there are people that play COMPETITIVE TEAM GAMES and they instantly mute their teammates, saying proudly that "they only play solo." So it really shouldn't be a surprise, people are insane
In marketing, you should never try to appeal to both the casual and hardcore (dedicated) consumer at the same time, because they both want completly different features out of the same product. MMOs are fondly remember from the time they were for dedicated players, so everyone playing was on the same "wave". When they (and the industry) became popular and both fanbases mixed, they clashed and msot devs decided to remove reasons to clash which also removed reasons to interact.
There isn't much difference between the average modern MMO and a Monster Hunter game with a 100 person public Lobby.
Soe of Thieves was the clsoest to a proper "MMO" I played in the recent eyars, and it mostly proved me that maybe we don't need one big constant world if you're not gonna do anything with that mechanics, and instead give us betetr ways to have several people play together.
Like, really. Just make a MH or DRG styled game where the lobby is the public place and the missions vary in player size.
Do take into account "dedicated" does not mean that they are good or professionals. It refers to the smaller percentage of the consumer that looks out for new experiences, the pioners and early adopters. MMOs golden era was mostly people who wanted to have this experience because that's what they enjoyed or were itnerested rather than because it was what they were told to get into.
If a 10 or 50 yo was playing an MMORPG, it was because they were nerds or autistic and had reached that knowledge by themselves, and not because the media had told them to play these games. Now said games have to be accessible to both of these audiences on top of the dedicated one, and are designed as such, hence the loss of many reasons we were playing an MMO. That's what ruined the experience.
Also the digital era with faster flow of information. Before knowledge was gated or hard to get by, and in many MMO guilds had more private knowledge than some pages or forums. Nowdays, everything is known in days so it becomes a game of who optimizes faster.
>Like, really. Just make a MH or DRG styled game where the lobby is the public place and the missions vary in player size.
What, like Dauntless?
Yes, but also, do not forget to make an interesting game. Dauntless was GaaS, MH is a whole game.
playing Relink made me think that its fricking crazy it is probably the closest anyone has gotten to MH with more standard fantasy fare
surely something like thats a goldmine just waiting to be discovered
>i don't understand how israelites pushing society's technological development in the direction of atomization of its individuals is making people ever less social and isolated
you only had to look at zoomers and how they can only cope at every turn
This. MMOs used to be cooler because the people who played it used to be more local or restricted. It was cooler if the friend you made online was someone who was in the same state or country as you or the same race as you, because then there was more of a chance for your friendship to be relevant outside of just the game. If your online friend is someone in the middle of Baghdad or Bangkok - who really cares?
It literally was not though, until WoW global servers were the norm. You had a lot of them, but anybody from anywhere could join whatever server.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Could=/=did. There were less formal restrictions, such as knowledge about computer, language, interest in the IP itself, etc.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I'm sorry you didn't get to experience the golden era, but I'm still friends with the very same foreigners I used to play asheron's call and then FFXI with back in the day.
Because they were loud about it. In almost every MMO Ive played they whine so much even about just group content and not raid content. They also were among the first to cry about mechanics anytime something isn't a tank n spank.
Because MMORPGs have just turned into online social hubs where people just want to talk to eachother, brag about their achievements and character growth and e-peen points. It's easier and faster to collect e-peen points solo than it is to wait for minutes to hours to get together and coordinate a group to collect e-peen points.
So MMOs have turned into >go out into the world solo >collect e-peen points >go back to city (social hub) >brag about e-peen points to other people and ERP >log out
Or in the off chance that you NEED to group with other people >hang out in city (social hub) >click button to enter queue >brag about e-peen points and ERP with people in city (social hub) while waiting for queue to pop >teleport into an instanced linear obstacle course specifically tailored around collecting e-peen points as a group and showing off your e-peen points competitively, therefore nobody actually socializes in the obstacle course because the time wasted socializing could be spent flexing your e-peen (DPS charts) or getting e-peen points faster (speedrunning the obstacle course) >teleport back into city (social hub) to brag about e-peen points and ERP
That is it. That's been the quintessential MMO experience for the last 15 years.
>MMORPGs have just turned into online social hubs where people just want to talk to eachother
you live in a different reality, MMO communities basically don't exist anymore and people barely talk in game
I could have worded it differently but literally every mainstream modern MMO RPG I've tried is filled with parasites who refuse to actually play the game but stand still in a capital city or social hub just talking in global chat channels all day.
That's what I meant by that. People who don't even play the game and use the game as glorified social media. That's another problem plaguing modern MMORPGs that people don't bring up. People are dead silent when playing the game, but the social hubs are filled with people who don't even play the game but spend an upwards of 10 hours in-game just hanging out. They'll refuse to actually play the game with other people, don't contribute anything to the game's economy, they almost never go out into the game's world, and are often found in remote obscure corners with their characters naked lying down ontop of another naked character
this is what old mmos were all about. the main difference now is progression is solo questleveling or big raid based gearleveling instead of small group based leveling which was comfy and what people have fond memories about.
you would still stand around in town and chat with people and show off your stats, thats kind of the entire point of mmos really, gaining epeen. Its just the method of getting it used to be fun and social and require just enough teamwork and strategy that you felt like you were playing with people while not burning you out or just being monotonous questgrind soloing
chatting while sitting waiting for the spawn or regening mana then pulling off combos with your team mates was what made mmos popular
>this is what old mmos were all about.
Wrong. >small group based leveling which was comfy and what people have fond memories about.
This is exactly what I was saying. People going out and PLAYING the damn game while socializing. Not logging in and contributing nothing to the game world by standing in a city speaking in global chat and with his guild mates for 10 hours about his favourite anime episode. People logged in with a purpose and plans for their game sessions that actually required grouping with your friends or guild mates and going out to do something, or even playing solo to grind out that one drop you wanted, which requires playing the damn game and often contributing to the economy selling things you don't particularly need.
Standing around in town and showing off your stats is fine and good, but having stats and item worth talking about requires playing the DAMN FRICKING GAME. Open any mainstream modern MMO on the market right now and you'll find max level characters sitting in a city hub whom, according to their achievements or an online database, have been max level for years, have never went through end game or completed any of the endgame raids or dungeons, don't PvP, barely do anything, are poorly geared, or dressed up in low level RP gear that simply looks nice, and seemingly all they do is stand around in the main hub of their server talking to people. People who literally don't touch the ACTUAL FRICKING GAME unless it's to reach level cap whenever a new expansion drops.
Chatting while sitting waiting for a spawn/regening mana actually required going out and PLAYING THE FRICKING GAME with the intent of clearing CONTENT with other people/competing with other people.
2 months ago
Anonymous
nayrt, but aren't you agreeing with each other?
The solo questline based progression means that you can't just park your ass in a popular location and talk to people who are also grinding there. Solo questline progression means everyone is constantly moving with no time to stop and talk.
There's nothing wrong with standing around town and talking, in fact more mmos should take advantage of that being a desired playstyle and have a minigame or something where you can passively progress while you're idling in down.
2 months ago
Anonymous
MMOs should let me roleplay as a merchant or blacksmith or some shit
I can't think of many games like this except for maybe FFXIV and PSO2NGS. What you're describing is how most MMOs were in 2005, except there was actually a good reason to sit around and make friends with people here and there, since you needed other people to play with a lot of the times. Networking was unironically beneficial but nowadays it doesn't even matter so the people still doing it are usually coomers and freaks.
That's what I did in Ragnarok Online when i didn't know how to progress my character next
It was fun but I was also 12/13 and enjoyed talking to people back then and having a group spot to speak to people with (next to the culvert entrance is where we hung out not in the city, but in private servers I just hung in the city due to low populations)
You see in RO there was a reason for hanging out in random places though as well, cause sitting is how you restore your health and sp, so talking to others sitting around made sense and making friends was fun.
I'm now an anti-social adult so things have only gotten harder for me to talk to others though, so I just go through content and ignore everyone
>Because MMORPGs have just turned into online social hubs
stopped reading, the very reason why mmorpgs fell off is that they stopped being social hubs and got superseded by social media as the top internet hangout
It's like Farmville.
People want to look over and see what somebody else is doing and maybe get some free shit from interacting with them, but not actually play together in any meaningful way.
i want to play in a group, but modern mmos are designed to solo so i solo. its a game first i must play optimally
back in the late 90s and early 00s i grouped and enjoyed it, because that was many times better progression than soloing
mmo’s used to make challenging group content and shit players made the decent players get aggressive about builds and strategies thus alienating the vocal minority of frickheads who think it’s their god given right to never fail and never improve, thus dividing the playerbase and now devs can’t figure out a way to make a fun challenge without one side or the other crying forever.
its like half a team playing flag football while the other half is tackling and nobody is happy.
The era of normalgays playing MMOs has long passed, if you're playing them now you probably have no real friends you can get to play it with you and social anxiety as a barrier to playing with people you meet in game. >why play them then?
No other genre really offers huge, persistent worlds you can immerse yourself in for months or years. And like
people want to play solo but do so in a world populated with others.
said it is nice to sometimes see someone playing and know you're not completely alone.
What I find funny is something like Runescape >obscenely solo game for years >nothing but trading, a couple minigames, and the designated PK area >little in regards to cooperative content or actually relying on other players >more content comes out that is mutliplayer >they actively scrutinize and hate it if it gets anywhere close in XP rates and such as the skilling methods that put the clicks of chinese social media farms to shame
this is really the crux of the matter
oldmmogays liked mmos because it forced people to hold hands with their autistic selves or nobody would progress
nummos allow people to progress most main forms of content without having to be anchored to some sweaty autistic frick that hasn't left his room for over a decade and is one stray comment away from going on a tirade calling everyone troons
This lmao. A lot of this disdain for being able to progress an MMO even slightly solo comes from the fact that it means the developer is no longer forcing people who wouldn't normally interact with each other to hold hands. Autists here are just shit-scared of forming friendships and playing together with others without the pretext of "we need to or else the game won't allow us to get anywhere."
World of Warcraft happened. It opened up the genre to people who previously were either not interested or outright filtered by it and made playing solo not just possible but the main way to progress through the game.
Did you even look at OP's pic?
Left is for solo/small group content set in a persistent always online world where the social landscape is always changing and you never know when your adventure might cross paths without someone else.
Right is for getting to the endgame and gearing up as fast as possible so that you can do the 'epic huge group content' and then logging off until the next one comes out.(Or when mr streamer says he needs a carry)
The problem with group content is that the groups either consist of normies who barely know how to use a keyboard or sweatlords who will nitpick everything you do while calling you moronic. There is little to no middleground. All of them are autistic, trans, furries, or any combination of the three.
Yeah MMO players never want to admit the reason everything became solo content is because no one wanted to deal with the homosexuals that play MMO games. It's impossible to fix MMOs because MMO players themselves are the problem.
Tigole and his gang of homosexuals were around in EQ, (which was the entire reason he got hired to help develop WoW, that, and him being israeli) so no. MMO players have always been the absolute bottom of the barrel of humanity.
And WoW was the first game designed specifically to cater to these people and let them feel welcome. MMORPG playerbases were full of the friendliest and most genuine people I've ever met, it's a shame WoW had to open the floodgates and let so many undesirable people into the genre.
>Played many MMOs >Had a great time doing super high end endgame content in FFXI >Entire group was trustworthy and more of a family than anything >Had eachothers phone numbers AND login info was shared freely
Imagine sharing the login info of anything with someone today, meanwhile back then we had no problem giving eachother info to accounts with tens and tens of thousands of hours of work put into them worth thousands of real life dollars if sold.
2 months ago
Anonymous
can we ever retvrn?
2 months ago
Anonymous
I highly doubt it, I've given up hoping and instead just try to enjoy what I can of todays games.
2 months ago
Anonymous
no? the people that played MMOs back in the day are adults now and dont have the time to put in the hours being in a MMO world and zoomers dont really care about MMos
2 months ago
Anonymous
Ive literally been at guild mates weddings, people I only met a few years ago
(You) arent part of the modern cliques because youre unlikeable, not because they dont exist anymore
2 months ago
Anonymous
youre a troony though its not the same
2 months ago
Anonymous
Can you stop calling anons you have no argument against trannies? Its embarrassing
2 months ago
Anonymous
modern cliques are all antisocial discord gatekeepers lmao
2 months ago
Anonymous
>crying about gatekeeping
lol, yeah youre the type of gay nobody wants to be around
2 months ago
Anonymous
once again proves hes a troony
LOL
2 months ago
Anonymous
this is pathetic anon, please stop projecting
2 months ago
Anonymous
stop letting random discord dudes nut in your pozhole
2 months ago
Anonymous
youre genuinely unhinged
everyone uses discord, you would know this if you had any friends at all
2 months ago
Anonymous
please dont cry candy ass
2 months ago
Anonymous
Give him a break he's posting from the tablet his mom gave him.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Anyone who brings up discord as some sort of boogyman is clearly not mentally sound.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>doubles down on being a discord troony that caused the death of MMOs
damn you hate to see it, how long have you been on HRT
2 months ago
Anonymous
>(You) arent part of the modern cliques because youre unlikeable
lol speak for yourself homosexual. i have a social life in every other video game except xiv
2 months ago
Anonymous
>>Had eachothers phone numbers AND login info was shared freely
nobody did this lmao are you stupid?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Bro? Tiamat just popped at 5:27 AM what other method are you going to use to get people online?
2 months ago
Anonymous
we did
sorry you didn't have real mmo friends
2 months ago
Anonymous
everybody used to batphone back in the days. moron
This is really the alpha and omega of the problem. If I can play with friends, I can evade the issue entirely and have a blast from start to finish, but if I'm expected to socialize with randoms and I wind up running into either picrel or ego-bloated hogs that think they're gaming's gods for doing a rotation slightly better, I'd rather just play solo as far as possible and drop it when I can't go on.
I timed out on Shiva Extreme once because the healers didn't understand her weapon gimmick.
75 minutes of my life gone, because of someone with an IQ lower than that.
>old MMOs >designed to waste your time >everything is slow and tedious >no idea where to go unless you speak to fellow players >POIs are usually just spots to grind mobs or quests
>new MMOS >designed to waste your time >everything is slow and tedious except combat, which is baby easy >websites spoil every aspect of the game before the patch drops, can't just discover new content on your own if you're in a group because nobody wants to "waste time" >POIs are used once for a throwaway quest and then never touched again
MMOs are legitimately the worst genre of games, designed solely to waste your time and keep you hooked so you keep that sub active.
Are they based now because they filter the gacha dopamine addicts? I mean you got to work hard to experience the best parts of the game which is both odd but welcoming.
every single person that i knew that played vanilla wow used mods to tell you where to go for quests
no one cares about the shitty story or trying to figure things out
the whole genre is a skinnerbox, people just want numbers to get bigger
you have to be completely braindead to enjoy this shit either today or back then
We played it when it was new and had a blast. We would play the horde as monsters. Hide under bridges between the Alliance starting area where the pirate dungeon was and the Ravenloft area then try and gank. Lots of fun to be had that wasn't "beating" the game.
Idk anything at all about "modern mmos," I only play on private servers from vanilla WoW to WOTLK. My two cents is there is always going to be a dichotomy between filling a group and having perfect performance. If I'm running some heroic in Wrath, it doesn't matter up to a point if my dps players aren't pulling max dps, so it allows the community to be accepting of each other; however, after my 100th time running the heroic, it is frustrating if someone clearly doesn't know how to play their class and are pulling less dps than the tank since it just wastes my time for no reason. As you enter harder content, performance matters more, but it's the same dynamic of needing to fill a group, and performance/boredom causing friction between players because "we could be clearing 3 minutes faster!"
I've been on the opposite end of the stick too, when I was asked to main tank a raid despite normally being a healer. I had limited experience tanking; however, I told the raid that I was NOT some l33t tank who knew every meta strat.. They proceeded to kick the offtank to bring an extra dps because it was the "meta" strategy, and then got pissed at me when I couldn't do both the main and offtank role under the raid's time constraint.. Of course they were just muttering under their breath like eastern european homosexuals on discord, but the raid dissolved in like 15 minutes because I told them to frick off.
What is the real solution to that though? They took a risk on a newer tank thinking they could over load me and that I would randomly learn without being taught. I took the risk thinking that I could do it. Both parties have a shit experience and now dislike each other.
What is the real solution to that though?
The real solution = to have things planned beforehand. They have failed on that big time: they didn't have time to train you (you would get it after 20-30 pulls). It's like you're going to a bank heist and invite a random guy - you're all going to jail.
blizzard hired some top EQ raiding guild to help them design WoW and they designed the living world elements out of mmos in favor of streamlining raiding pipeline.
now instead of being a world simulator where progression was nearly infinite and multifaceted mmos were about not standing in red things and capping out on progression then waiting for the next raid to come out.
As time has progressed post WoW more and more of the vestigial living world elements WoW still had have been refined out further
>blizzard hired some top EQ raiding guild to help them design WoW and they designed the living world elements out of mmos in favor of streamlining raiding pipeline.
This needs to be talked about more. The people who made vanilla WoW what it was did it BEFORE Jeff Kaplan and the Everquest people were hired on. The game was 3/4 of the way complete before they got hired on.
Then Blizz laid people off shortly after release, and the culture and design of the game shifted to favor what the EQ people, who managed to not get laid off, favored.
MMOs of the past were about the journey they felt like you actually went on an adventure. I haven't felt that same sense of adventure for a very long time. I mostly blame blizzard trying to make the mmo genre as accessible as possible and the fans screaming at every future mmo developer how they want wow classic but not by blizzard. In short the genre you know is a a byproduct of it's era and retired.
>MMOs of the past were about the journey they felt like you actually went on an adventure
That's cuz the leveling was slow, so it took time to get through each area. Once you got to a new area you would probably be there for a bit, that made people appreciate the art and backgrounds and shit a lot more.
Now modern MMOs make the leveling journey basically not matter and you can end up seeing the entire game in a matter of days. It's all because people b***hed about how slow leveling used to be, yet these are the same homosexuals that still grind 50 hours in one map for 0.01% exp on maplestory and tell themselves it's a better game than it used to be because the "leveling is so fast".
>That's cuz the leveling was slow
That was only one aspect. It literally felt like a dnd session. You meet up with people at the designated meeting spot. You then travel out to the area which takes time. Do whatever the frick you want and then disband. It was literally an adventure something Wow killed sadly.
How is LOTRO in 2024, lads? Haven't tried it before but I hear good things about it. Will it rekindle that "the world and adventure is actually important" feel that old MMORPGs used to have?
It would help to socialize in MMOs if there was more of a chance for those relationships to be relevant in more than just the game itself. Like if the players were more geographically restricted, shared the same life experiences as you, were the same race, etc.
The best experience in MMO's I've had is discovering there are people from all over the planet that are similar to myself. Regional locks are the worst thing to happen because unless you live in a bubble there is no way to play with friends. I'd take 200 ping gameplay any day of the week if it means me and a portuguese dude get to bully the JP's unfortunate enough to post up next to us in town.
And all you do is relevant to just the game, huh? You're so small-minded. Imagine posting up to BRs in-game and in real life with the same friend. This is what excites the mind and incentivizes wanting to socialize in an MMO.
I can imagine playing with poles and experiencing kurwaspam all day - which is exactly why I never admit my country when playing online and I'm glad I'm not confined to my shithole.
No its not. >t. anon from one of the regions that often had local ip locked servers
Fricking nobody wants to play with people they share country with outside of eops and maybe few different eu inbred states, particularly frogs.
the companies that made them went public and ended up being run by the stock holders, Most people dont realize it, but stock holders are usually big banks, investment and retirement funds and other corporations not individual people.
They dont care about GAMES or ART or any of that. They expect STOCK GROWTH ENDLESSLY.
So they send in SUITS to make sure the people that used to make GAMES make PURE PROFIT instead. Usually they hang on for like 5 years then leave when the SUITES demands actually prevent them from making what they want and they sell off their own stock and open a new company. Rinse and repeat.
All the while the games you used to love get made EASIER and or DUMBER for the LARGER AUDIENCE and NORMIES they want to get on the Micro Trans tit.
>MMOs now >Expecting you to travel in any capacity instead of just letting you idle in a queue inside a city and teleporting anywhere you need to go once the game finds 20 random players that might as well be bots for you
Most bizarre experience with modern MMO games is how nobody uses chat anymore. Even guild chats are silent and everyone is telling you to use Discord. I don't want this stupid botnet, I just want to play.
Everyone uses private discord channels because you can actually say what you want to say. 90% of public chat lobbies are so heavily moderated that you can't say anything even remotely interesting or you'll get banned and have your money stolen.
I don't like it either, but it is what it is. Blame the easily offended and overtly censorious pieces of human garbage that gained power and control over companies instead of being told to eat shit and die like they used to.
why is convenience bad? dont lie telling me you want to explore or discover shit by yourself you just want to get gear, level up or catch up to current content
I want to explore shit with others, and convenience is the enemy of that. Inconvenience is what forced you into social situations and led to places where you would run into the same players over and over again. It's a weird feeling to learn players names just by using the same boat or airship or by having to rely on them to accomplish something you can't alone or through a queue. Not every MMO needs to be like this, but I'm sad there aren't any new ones as they've led to a lot of very good friendships throughout the years in my experience.
>you just want to gear up, level up, and get to current content
no. i want to have fun playing a game and rushing like a sperg to the end just leaves me bored and empty. being max level with BiS gear and clears in every raid is literally the end of an mmo, it’s the opposite of fun. i want to have an adventure on the way to that ending and spergs turned it into speedrunning a checklist.
>dont lie telling me you want to explore or discover shit by yourself you just want to get gear
I can tell from experience that low level exploration based gearing has always been more enjoyable to me than high level raid based gearing.
When you're leveling up and your gear is often 10 levels apart, finally crafting that "new" equipment from hauling ass to a new zone to kill that spider for it's special silk or elemental for its specific essence feels very rewarding. Sometimes the piece may not even be that great, but it's all you can craft at the moment so you'll make do with what you have.
Compared to raiding where the power level difference between gear is magnitudes greater than leveling gear it. It manages to lose a lot of the reward factor when you're just doing the same content on progressively harder difficulties for gear that is slightly more optimized than whatever purple piece of loot you already have.
This, and I miss that aspect of MMOs. Back when I played Maplestory I remember low level scrolled gear still actually mattered, there was always going to be someone willing to buy it to use for their next 10 levels. Nowadays leveling is so fast that none of that gear will ever matter to anyone and it's just taking up space in the game. It's so fricking lame.
>dont lie telling me you want to explore or discover shit by yourself you just want to get gear
I can tell from experience that low level exploration based gearing has always been more enjoyable to me than high level raid based gearing.
When you're leveling up and your gear is often 10 levels apart, finally crafting that "new" equipment from hauling ass to a new zone to kill that spider for it's special silk or elemental for its specific essence feels very rewarding. Sometimes the piece may not even be that great, but it's all you can craft at the moment so you'll make do with what you have.
Compared to raiding where the power level difference between gear is magnitudes greater than leveling gear it. It manages to lose a lot of the reward factor when you're just doing the same content on progressively harder difficulties for gear that is slightly more optimized than whatever purple piece of loot you already have.
I prefer my gear to be more static but less common and more impactful. Getting gear dropped of any rarity should never feel fully bad. It, at worst, should feel useful to sell or dismantle, and this last part is related to how common said loot is. Make it rare, so the sell price can be a "hey this uncommon sword isn't for my build but hey with the money I can get some upgrade/couple nice potions".
Most games nowdays make loot so common but trash, tied to progression goals and/or "linked to account" you're both showered in rewards and enjoying none of it.
It's really cool when you equip new gear and you can feel the change, but you need to restrain the game with loot for that.
I feel like most of what people are talking about is in classic wow right now if you have ever played it before and don’t look stuff up.
I joined classic after never playing wow before I read the quest text I go on an adventure I follow the storyline through the zones (I’m playing undead and have so far followed the undead storyline through 4-5 zones and several dungeons) it’s very fun and enjoyable. Leveling is slow so I get to explore every nook and cranny of each zone.
Sometimes harder quests pop up that REQUIRE a group of 3-4 people to tackle I group up and have some fun.
Good gear if you get it can last a long time and carry you it doesn’t get thrown away shortly after. (I got the robes of arugal from SFK and kept them for almost 15 levels)
I wonder how many complaints in this thread are valid and how many are just people who can’t find anything new because they are old and have experienced everything already. You can’t really make a brand new and innovative MMO in 2024. Nothing new under the sun.
Convenience is bad because it removes the rewards from preparation and time optimisation.
It also makes things very disposable and removes the weight and significance from many of the systems in the game.
>or catch up to current content
why does that matter?
do you play games like a check box of things you have to do ASAP?
have you never thought to yourself how mentally unwell that is?
>hate people >hate grinding >even seeing other players in wow made me annoyed >can now play by myself, get everything i need by myself and only see people when im queued to kill them
>coming to wow from ragnarok as a kid >you get to see the gear you equipped in your character when you equip it >you get to ride animals around >characters can jump and have several animations for different attacks
I remember being mesmerized by those pvp raid videos where groups would run from stormwind all the way to orgrimmar to frick shit up. Good times.
>no quests >no singleplayer story mode >no forced groupfinder dungeons with random idiots >no gear treadmill >no content bloat >can take a break for years without falling behind >no fomo >nothing locked behind level requirements
Why aren't you playing Albion yet?
>MMO playerbase is the most anti-social it's ever been >game design has extremely solo friendly progression and quest structure >gear still shackled to RNG drop chance >class design structure has somehow regressed, CC is non-existent, Support classes are non-existent. There is only damage, healing and tanking. >Crafting systems outside of making consumables is useless in 99% of MMOs because people would complain that crafted gear is on-par or better than dungeon/raid gear for "less effort" i.e. how many times you pull the lever on the slot machine. >devs only seem to know how to make endgame content i.e. Raids so anything before endgame is considered pointless because it doesn't facilitate the endgame systems
These are just general musings on some things I think are issues with the genre. There are other things too like p2w systems in Korean grinders but they're thankfully still trapped in their own little circle of hell that hasn't bled into the genre as a whole.
Can't you basically straight up buy raid carries in wow and trade premium currency for actual gold in world of warcraft? Can't you also do that in runescape?
Yes, but I'd still consider that a community thing and not something that is actively encouraged and facilitated by the game itself. There isn't a blurb in the cash shop selling you a token saying "It's great for those who don't have time to form a raid!" or whatever.
Can you sell wow tokens for in-game currency? How many times are you going to be a goalpost moving wowbabby homosexual?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Do the devs encourage the playerbase to use it for GDKP runs, yes or no?
2 months ago
Anonymous
nta, but Mike Ybarra, the blizzard president that was selling runs and such for gold, has left the company. And then a few weeks later blizzard banned GDKP raids on the season of discovery game mode
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Nooooo buying tokens with real money that allow you to sell them for gold and pay for raid carries isn't pay to win because the devs don't explicitly tell you what to do with the gold you bought using real money!
So you're a mentally moronic blizzdrone, understood. Never thought I'd see the day where wowgays would cope as hard as black desert players when people call their shit game pay to win. Thought you queers at least had some humility left after being kicked down so hard.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Is there a little pop-up window telling you if you're having trouble clearing content to buy a wow token to buy a clear? Does the game send you a reminder that the weekly reset is tomorrow and that you should top up on those wow tokens for your next GDKP run? There is a marked difference between company facilitated and player facilitated usage. Even factoring in
nta, but Mike Ybarra, the blizzard president that was selling runs and such for gold, has left the company. And then a few weeks later blizzard banned GDKP raids on the season of discovery game mode
Mike Ybarra selling runs, there was never a company wide edict to push it onto people, that was just his little side hustle. It is not even close to being on the same level as your most basic Korean P2W cash shop, they really have it down to a science over there. I don't doubt that Blizzard would do something similar if they knew they could get away with it. There's a reason the token has been the only real attempt to monetize the game with something that could be used in a P2W manner while everything else is just Cosmetics. I find it somewhat amusing that you didn't attempt to discuss any of my other points and instead instantly honed in on the P2W aspect despite it being more of an afterthought ancillary to my main arguments, I had never even mentioned WoW in my original post.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>If it doesn't fit all of this autistically specific criteria then it's not p2w!!
kek, see
Wowtrannies will pretend this does not exist
2 months ago
Anonymous
Are you able to actually argue the points I'm making or not?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Are you able to admit that your favorite game is pay to win, when you can use real money to buy tokens, trade those tokens for in-game gold, and use the in-game gold for carries to get the best gear?
2 months ago
Anonymous
I don't play WoW, I'm just able to understand the nuances between the WoW token and a full on cash shop. I can tell this fact is really upsetting you because you're responding emotionally and you were probably burned by the game at some point.
2 months ago
Anonymous
WoW has both m8
2 months ago
Anonymous
What other options exist besides the token?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Pray tell anon. What is the nuance between buying a premium item to sell for in-game currency and buying a premium item to sell for in-game currency?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Most Korean cash shops sell direct player power upgrades like attack bonuses, movement speed, etc or even straight up standard game functions like auto-loot, inventory space, hell even the ability to /shout. It really isn't comparable to a token that one could use to buy gear and clears. The fact that you cannot understand the difference is really confusing to me.
2 months ago
Anonymous
So WoW is still p2w, but less compared to asiatic grinders. Gotcha, glad you were able to admit to the game allowing players to buy endgame gear with legitimate means. See? Being honest isn't hard at all.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I literally admitted that here
Yes, but I'd still consider that a community thing and not something that is actively encouraged and facilitated by the game itself. There isn't a blurb in the cash shop selling you a token saying "It's great for those who don't have time to form a raid!" or whatever.
and
Is there a little pop-up window telling you if you're having trouble clearing content to buy a wow token to buy a clear? Does the game send you a reminder that the weekly reset is tomorrow and that you should top up on those wow tokens for your next GDKP run? There is a marked difference between company facilitated and player facilitated usage. Even factoring in [...] Mike Ybarra selling runs, there was never a company wide edict to push it onto people, that was just his little side hustle. It is not even close to being on the same level as your most basic Korean P2W cash shop, they really have it down to a science over there. I don't doubt that Blizzard would do something similar if they knew they could get away with it. There's a reason the token has been the only real attempt to monetize the game with something that could be used in a P2W manner while everything else is just Cosmetics. I find it somewhat amusing that you didn't attempt to discuss any of my other points and instead instantly honed in on the P2W aspect despite it being more of an afterthought ancillary to my main arguments, I had never even mentioned WoW in my original post.
and that was never my point, my point was always that it was not on the same level as Korean P2W games, which is another beast entirely. Your desperate attempts to try and gotcha me are genuinely pathetic.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Wow is p2w b-but it's not that bad because it's not asiatic grinders levels of p2w!
Blizztrannies are really on another level of mental illness. Still not playing your shit p2w MMO, moron.
2 months ago
Anonymous
That's all you can resort to saying because you know you can't actually refute anything properly.
2 months ago
Anonymous
What is there to refute, moron? The game is p2w, there's nothing more to it. Why do I give a frick what else they sell or do not sell in a cash shop if it's already p2w to begin with? You morons literally pay a subscription fee kek, so in a way you're even more moronic than the average asiatic grinder shill. Actual mental illness. At least the asiatic grinders will admit their games sell advantages to whales. Deranged troony.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Who are you trying to impress?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Pay to win is pay to win, dude, trying to create special qualifications for it is just pathetic.
2 months ago
Anonymous
What are you talking about? Blizzard doesn't tell you to buy raid carries when you trade your tokens for gold. Sure, you CAN pay for faster progress over other players, but the devs don't tell you to do that so it's not exactly pay to win. Not sure what you're getting at. Yeah you can buy raid carries with gold you paid for through the token system and get the best gear in the game, but that doesn't make it pay to win. It would be pay to win if there were notifications constantly reminding you to buy wow tokens so you can get the best gear in the game but again, they don't do that. It's a community thing.
>CC is non-existen
I still remember the "CC" crowd when they complained about Wrath dungeons being shit-easy and didn't require any CC. The same fricking crowd complained about the difficulty of the pre-nerf Cata dungeons where you needed CC.
My only complaint about pre-nerf Cata dungeons was that my groups didn't understand the healers didn't have infinite mana any more. Also I hated that my priest went from having a spellbook full of useful spells to just spamming Heal over and over unless I wanted to run out of mana in 2 seconds flat.
Solo players need content too. It turns into a problem when players can solo the group content (and grief actual groups) or they are being forced into groups of random players via a partyfinder.
I play WoW and I love how deranged your average wow player is >My friend and I doing M+ >exclusively play +18 keys, for comfy experience >We ding the KSH achievement >Some guild mate asks me if we aim to push further >"No, we just stay at +18, because there is absolutely no reason to go beyond that."
He literally couldn't compute my statement.
i agree. the funnest time i had in mmos in recent history was the first 2-3 weeks of dragonflight. the best gear came from world quests and other open world sources. was fantastic
MMOs were doomed the moment Blizzard took the EQ raidtroon route and gave Kaplan creative control
They could have been saved if they had gone the PvP route
mmos were never good they were always a genre of games for glorified cattle
this fight between modern and classic mmogays is literally just like watching two chimps fight over who is most moronic
I want an MMO with actual character / enemy collision + AI enhancements.
Imagine having to physically body block things from trying to break through and get at casters and healers.
Or, an AI that learns from your party composition and tactics and gets better every fight.
>Collision
Warhammer. It did make tanks very fun but has its downsides >AI
Stupid. That's the entire point of MMOs, you have players which fill the role of unpredictable encounters.
never happening.
you think you want smart enemies that adapt to you but studies have shown time and time again that players get frustrated because players refuse to adapt to situations.
they want to do one thing repeatedly instead of changing up how they play.
enemies that are smart and can actually challenge the player are counter to that playstyle and philosophy. when a player gets outsmarted by ai they loose interest in the game and so no one ever does enemies that adapt to players.
at most ai will be clever like interrupting certain casts or putting a cc on on a healer but those things are predictable and easy to counteract.
Good luck clearing that with a bunch of random groupfinder morons who just bought a level boost. There is a reason why everything is a corridor dungeon now.
>Good luck clearing that with a bunch of random groupfinder morons who just bought a level boost. There is a reason why everything is a corridor dungeon now.
I solo farmed that dungeon back in the day as a 13 year old bro. i could go back there now and still know it like the back of my hand. the mobs also werent hard. but old school mmorpg autism just hits different.
pic related is the travel system map for Anarchy Online, an mmorpg from 2001. i still have these routs memorized 24 years later.
I dont want to poopsock. I dont want to join a discord clique. I dont want to compete in a rat race for dps. I dont want to be forced to play on a schedule. I dont want to be on "probation" before Im allowed loot. I dont want to participate in social hierarchy withing the guild in order the gain better loot
I want to adventure and talk to random people I meet in the wild
>i want to join a hardcore competitive guild that plays around my schedule >I will only contribute when I feel like it >I'm here for the benefits >Discord? No, thanks. Type it out for me when I come online
What happened to MMOs?(OP) >>MMOs then
me 25 bear asses >>Drop rate 10 % chance per bear
my first mmorpg, asheron's call, from 1999, didnt have quests like that.
it had quests more like:
oh hi, you are now level 5? well here is a vague note you can buy in the inn of one town out of 34 that gives you 10+ pages of vague directions to a half dozen noobie dungeons you can go to to possibly get keys to unlock the dungeon of the sword of lost light that is 20 mile run out into the desert pass level 100+ mobs. also each of those 6 noobie dungeons has a series of locked doors and hidden keys with some keys locked behind other noobie quests or hidden in other dungeons/outside the dungeons. this quest took me months to do.
mmos are not fun. People only play them for dopamine rush over getting numbers up. The reason why this genre attract so many autistic sweatlord is exactly because its not fun. They minmax specifically to minimize the risk of failure because the gameplay itself is not enjoyable. If your group gets stuck on a boss or disbands, you just wasted your time. You just dont have fun simply killing mobs like say vermintide.
Until this this core issue is solved the genre will never stop stagnating
>mmos are not fun
opinion discarded.
you do not find mmos fun
that doesn't mean everyone else feels the same.
i personally fricking love MMOs, and have loved MMOs since I started playing UO in 99. I don't care about dopamine hits over numbers going up, because I'm fully engrossed in these massive living virtual worlds full of weird shit to explore and interact with.
you have the mindset of the very same minmaxing dopamine addicted frickwits that you are admonishing in your post, and what's worse is you don't even realize it.
maybe I shouldve specified "modern mmos". I am a wowbab after all and instanced fast paced content is how I like it. I tried playing runescape once and it bored me to tears. I just dont understand why mmo devs try to seperate the game into absolutely mind numbing solo leveling experience and autistic minmax endgame.
I believe the crux of the issue is this wierd obsession with competitive gaming mmoshit has, but a "competitve rpg" is literally an oxymoron, since the genre is fundamentally based on class disparity. Naturally devs with such fricked mindset cannot produce fun content
The point of pre 2004 MMOs was to create a game for people who wanted to work together, be a part of a community, take on immense challenges, and most of all enjoy the journey over the reward. Some focused on story, some on PVP, and others on PVE, but in the end they all embraced the idea of people having to work together to achieve their goals and the bonds you form during that work being the real reward.
The crux of todays issue is MMOs, or rather "MMOs", being designed to pull in and cater to people like yourself, people who want quick easy get in get out content. It's cool that you like that, that isn't the issue, but the result is that the old style of MMO games has been completely dropped due to this new style of MMO, as shown by WoWs massive success, catering to the casual market and the general public overall. Early MMO titles were designed for a specific slice of the gaming populace while modern ones are designed to draw EVERYONE in.
>this wierd obsession with competitive gaming mmoshit has
Funnily enough the old MMOs actually were more competitive than todays so that's clearly not the reason why todays games suck.
>being designed to pull in and cater to people like yourself
well they are doing a shit job because I dont like any of modern mmos. I am perfectly fine with spending hundreds hours grinding but only if the gameplay is fun. I also strongly advocate that leveling should provide players with mechanical challenge, which some can be circumvented with coop. Gameplay in wow/xiv/eso/gw2 for me just feels like doing busywork. I hate how many hoops you have to jump through just to play non braindead content. The reward system in these games is completely fricked too. You do hard content and your reward is same content but harder? The frick is that shit
i got into mmorpgs for the exploration and "living worlds" that had ongoing stories where the world would go through drastic changes. some mmorpgs had "seasons" like winter, some had cities blow up, some had stories arcs 3+ years long.
i did NOT play mmorpgs to grind "EnD GaMe CoNtEnT". I hate the concept of EnD GaMe CoNtEnT as introduced by EQ and popularized by WOW. my favorite mmorpg asheron's call had a CONTENT UPDATE every MONTH. for 10+ years. EVERY MONTH = new content.
i hate weekly/daily raids/dungeon "running", i hate faction/rep grinds, i hate achievements.
give me big long drawn out obtuse quests that take months to tell and play through that i really only have to do once - unless im going back through to help someone else with it. i dont want to run the same dungeon 10 times a night. i dont want to do the same 1-3 raids every week for months. i dont want to a random assortment of a handful of daily "quests" i have done 1000 times every day.
mmorpgs killed themselves with the skinner box approach.
mmorpgs should be about providing living/changing fantasy worlds to explore and then meet/interact with other real people in through the prism of that fantasy world.
mmorpgs should not be like 'jobs' with chores to do.
I'm probably going to try out AoC, TL and maybe the Riot MMO before going full doomer on MMOs. We had this exact stage happen with fighting games before the modern renaissance kicked off and lot of great games came out. it was a dark time back when we only had TTT2 and SFV with the only hope being MvC Infinite
Age of Conan was/could have been alright but suffered from "released too early, nice polished start but unfinished end game(little/no content for lvl 50-80) that gave it a bad launch that killed its funding to ever get finished. one of its big draws, seige warfare, took years to get out and was/is trash.
but its world exploration - that was finished and got added to over the years - is great. its combat system is fun/different. its worth trying out. you will know by the time you leave the starting pirate island by around lvl 20ish whether you want to keep playing or not. its a game i go back to from time to time. but its "unfinished" even now and when/if you get to end game you will see. but LOTS of content to explore.
Riot has the best chance, the video game industry is full of corporate espionage and i doubt the sudden worldsoul saga push from Blizzard is a coincidence.
None of these games will release this decade. The Riot MMO won't even get announced until then.
Maybe, lets not forget Valorant was released a few months after its official announcement.
I'm probably going to try out AoC, TL and maybe the Riot MMO before going full doomer on MMOs. We had this exact stage happen with fighting games before the modern renaissance kicked off and lot of great games came out. it was a dark time back when we only had TTT2 and SFV with the only hope being MvC Infinite
Everything Riot has made has been a cheap chinese knockoff of another popular game, I wouldn't expect them to do anything else than copy WoW and XIV (maybe a little kmmo shit sprinkled in) in the most boring way possible. Whatever the game will be, if it even exists at all, it won't be a return to MMO form and instead it'll dig the hole deeper.
I don't think it'll be soulless korean p2w, and it's coming from a company with tons of experience in deal with salty fanbases, so I expect a strong PvP showing.
The last time Riot mentioned the MMO on their own websites was in 2019. They haven't given up completely yet because interviews on some 3rd party youtube channel prove a small team is still working on it. They can pull the plug anytime and nobody would notice.
Considering what's happened to Riot in recent years, I have no real hope in their MMO or any of their upcoming big-name game projects at all really.
They're unironically better off as an animation & music studio at this point; it's the only thing they're truly good yet. As others have said, all of their games are just cheaply-made, tacked-on, low-effort knockoffs of dead trends.
what do you mean? They are peaking each year. Valorant killd cs TWICE now. Lol killed dota to the point dota started copying them and still is in a massive decline. The series won every price there is too. Weird cope. The fighter is destined to succeed too. The codev literally owns EVO.
Solo and group content can co-exist. What do you do when your friends aren't available but you still want to play? Not everyone has a full group of friends to play with.
I'm a zoom zoom too and those are the only genres that my friends like to play. And also the binding of isaac for some reason the game looks really stupid to me
BoI is not so bad from what i've seen, it's definitely a flash game and while stuff like hades has it beat nowadays (lol roguelike trends) it's still pretty good for a 2011 flash game. Otherwise, I really wish BR didn't rob me of Titanfall 3.
>mmos then were unironically easier. Zoomers are moronic. Wow classic vs retail is prove
just because they add arbitrarily more convoluted higher hp versions of all their 'end game content' doesnt mean its better/harder/etc. nuwow is cancer. doing the same dungeons/raids over and over with higher hp mobs is cancer game design. its not good.
>they add arbitrarily more convoluted higher hp versions of all their 'end game content' doesnt mean its better/harder/etc
Its not arbitrary, its there as a challenge and yes it does objectively make it harder, which is also better for people with IQs above 60 you subhuman brazilian since there is actually something to do at endgame that wont bore you to tears >doing the same dungeons/raids over and over
You dont get to complain about grinding shit in a thread jerking off old MMOs gay, the genre has always been repetitive and grindy
No, its not moron
If a boss doesnt damage check you then you just bring infinite healers and tanks
if a boss dies in 30 seconds you just cut healers and burst it down
>No, its not moron
yeah, it is, homosexual
more health does not equal harder boss no matter how many times you repeat it.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>More health >Longer fight >Have to maintain your skills/spells/mana/whatever over a longer period of time >not harder
stop posting moron
2 months ago
Anonymous
What are you, a scrub? Simply dealing with more HP doesn't require you to change your strategy. You just need to do your skill rotation a few extra times.
2 months ago
Anonymous
You were asked to stop posting, please comply and save us a few braincells lil zoom zoom. Your league queue is about to pop anyway.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I accept your concession
2 months ago
Anonymous
>anon is so mind broken that he bites someone else's bait
god damn that's funny
2 months ago
Anonymous
Yes it does you stupid Black person
Longer the fight goes on the more chances for failure you have
Longer the fight goes on the more mana matters
Longer fights prevent bursty cheese strats
It's funny to look at it that way but it was a neat concept ingame. There were so many places that you could easily slip off and the forced drop downs were terrifying because of it.
never played eq that much but i love to watch some 2 hours long walktroughs of these massive zones. maybe it's because of the old 90s/early 00s low quality textures
>decide to play OSRS lately randomly since I needed something mindless to grind while doing something else >grand exchange fricks up the game so much that it's more like the original experience when you're locked to never interact with anyone else
It's absurd reading the wiki, how its suggested solution for levelling every skill literally just sit sit in the GE and buy/sell while crafting.
I guess I just got super unlucky back in the day, but I always needed help and such trying to play WoW and I would just called a noob homosexual all the time. Any time I wanted to do a low level dungeon, I never found people to do it with, just high levels looking for a quick gold and disenchant mats to steam roll them for me.
They became normified, and a sizable number od old school poayers went along with it because its hard to get a party together often enough to justify the subscription when all your friends have jobs.
Old school MMOs, the good ones, were a golden age we simply wont get back. Its all incredibly niche indie mmos from here on.
i was talking in general chat on wow classic and some dude asked if i dont have friends. this was such an eye opener to me. MMOs truly are dead. they arent special worlds to adventure in anymore and make friends its just second monitor content to keep 30 year old occupied
yeah i had the same experience. i had great fun with the game dont get me wrong it has amazing music. but you dont really have to do anything with anyone. i got to max level in FF14 and later tried wow classic and it kinda amazed me how much more you are encouraged to do stuff with a buddy
I've played it for 4 years and made zero friends. I've come to the conclusion that it's essentially Seattle: The Videogame.
The userbase is friendly sure, but there's a gigantic divide between everyone that prevents friendships from being formed, especially if there's cliques already made. It's just like the Seattle Freeze. Amicable, but distant people. I made more friends in fricking Deep Rock Galactic in a single day.
Hardly self-inflicted, considering I have an easier time making friends in every other online game and even in real life. FFXIV is just a completely atomized "community".
Free companies
Linkshells
Treasure map parties
In game Social Events
Party Finder Parties
I've made friends from all of these
i don't think his point was that you can't do social things in xiv, rather that the game never pushes you to do so. a well-designed social engagement system would incentivize group activities and make those incentives clear to players up front. it's not just about making social systems available, but incentivizing them and making sure players understand why they'd want to engage with those systems.
When I was playing it there was no recruitment for Free Companies or Linkshells going on, unlike any other MMO I've played where it was easy to get into one.
>Free companies
All have cliques. I was in multiple and we all ignored new people, honestly. I left all of them because it always devolved into some homosexual or two who wouldn't stop cheating on his girlfriend/boyfriend and starting drama. >Linkshells
Dead. Always. >Treasure Map Parties
You do the maps and leave. Next. >In-game Social Events
Already have cliques. They don't want you. >Party Finder Parties
See Treasure Maps.
It's great that you're an exception, but for the vast majority of people, these don't work. If anyone here actually wants to make decent friends, you should play a community dedicated around a craft, like potmaking, art, etc. I made tons of friends in a birdwatching forum and frequently go hiking with them. Or could you try and meet people in a sick game like FF14. Your choice.
2 months ago
Anonymous
So, self inflicted
2 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, you can think that. Enjoy your fake friends. I won.
2 months ago
Anonymous
they are literal discord trannies dude modern MMOs were made for them. they love it.
Hardly self-inflicted, considering I have an easier time making friends in every other online game and even in real life. FFXIV is just a completely atomized "community".
>I've come to the conclusion that it's essentially Seattle: The Videogame.
AhahahahahahahaHA!
God I need to move. I fricking hate it here. Seattlites will all tell you you’re a nutjob for thinking this too
It’s possible but difficult. A lot of people around here will look at you like you’re crazy if you try to talk to them, regardless of the setting you’re in. I say this as someone who is obviously a normal well-groomed person and not a stinky homeless guy.
Unironically I'm considering just playing that CoH pserver or Lotro or DDO since I have tons of free content packs they gave away for those two games. Modern MMOs are in stasis right now, what do you even have to look forward to? Blue Protocol? Throne and Liberty? What a joke.
I wish some shitty old MMO would get popular so the "le heckin wholesome and valid and friendly" buttholes wouldn't use Dark Souls as a refuge and could go there instead. No wonder their games died, they are literally human garbage.
>play FF XIV >want to be left alone >everyone trying to recruit me >eventually join an FC >they keep talking to me
My guess is that you guys are used to forced interactions from how the old games were designed and can't actually talk to people without having the devs force them to talk to you. Because holy hell, I'm trying to play it as a single player game and everyone keeps talking to me.
I'm an oldgay but I fricking hate old MMOs, shit like UO and Everquest and the like. I'm only playing FF XIV for the robust campaign and story. Normally I'd never touch an MMO with a tennfoot pole. I won't even play XI because it's an Everquest wannabe.
I don't really care, I have no attachment to MMO infighting and I'd rather quit gaming alltogether than ever play XI. All those old MMOs are the same to me, annoying and unfun mechanics designed to pad the game out so your sub lasts longer.
FFXI: >Requires encyclopedic knowledge of the game's mechanics, classes, maps, monsters, etc. >Just throws you into the world with little to no tutorials, you have to navigate a complex menu system and have to actually read text in order to understand what's going on. >At advanced levels of play, you might need to even create your own scripts for addons such as gearswap >The game is entirely designed around gear, upgrading said gear, getting the best gear in slot but also you need to carry around many different types of gear suited for whatever particular situation your character is doing, for example healing magic might have a completely different set of gear than enfeebling or elemental magic, have to swap between gear during combat to make full effect of this gear >Doesn't hold your hand at all, if you get a quest you're told to go talk to someone but not guided to the destination in any way, you must use the maps and figure out for yourself where your destination is and how to get there >Brutal leveling and endgame system that absolutely filters the frick out of any casual that managed to make it far enough in the game >Requires you play the game as a literal full time job in order to accomplish anything of real importance >Designed for actual fans of Final Fantasy >crafting has so much depth it could practically be a game in itself, and requires a ton of time, investment and skill to become a master crafter.
FFXIV: >A literal themepark MMO >The entire game is designed around holding your hand >Almost anyone can beat the highest level content, almost anyone can unlock an ultimate weapon >gear is much less important in this game >crafting feels pointless >Much less time commitment to achieve anything important in the game >Designed for trannies and other mentally ill autistic freaks / """women"""
you play the game as a literal full time job in order to accomplish anything of real importance
Hey, thanks for reminding everyone why classic MMOs died.
Yeah, retail still exists and private servers have been around forever. Private ones only contain the base game and first two expansions for the most part.
There's plenty including private servers. I don't play anymore but last time I played retail a few years ago Odin was still pretty active. Granted there's like 2 heavily populated servers in XI still, and the rest have smaller populations of mostly Japanese players.
There's retail, where they added QOL changes and getting to end game will mostly be single player with Trust NPCs
Then there are private servers like Eden and Horizon that only cover base game and some expansions like
Yeah, retail still exists and private servers have been around forever. Private ones only contain the base game and first two expansions for the most part.
It sucks that FFXI will never get another expansion, but Aldouin was a pretty great end expansion with some great areas. At least it still has got content updates the last few years. I haven't played in a while though.
I'm just waiting for the day I hear that it's officially getting shut down so I can log in one last time and just roam around the world before it's gone forever.
I mean honestly, FFXI died to me a long time ago. All the friends I knew that played have long since moved on, and they were the real reason I kept playing for many years.
I'm still disappointed they haven't done something with the setting, it feels like they've wanted the game to disappear for a long time for whatever reason.
Nothing, they were always glorified chat rooms/social experiences.
The modern internet is no longer in a state to make that fun anymore, so modern mmo focus more on single player and collectathon content to maintain player base.
In short devs now have to actually work to entertain you instead of just expecting you to entertain your self by fricking around/with randos but at the same time they're now cutting off all the empty frick around space cause their priorities and resources are else where
Devs learned that all the areas outside of quest zones are a waste of effort and money and they could make corridors for much cheaper and earn same amounts of money from addicted gamers.
the modern mmo player doesnt want to play mmos. they are addicted and just want the rewards. if there was an option to skip all gameplay and collect the rewards, the majority of mmo players would take that option. the vast majority of complaints about mmos can be boiled down to "its too hard to get the rewards"
>map/quests are too complicated >leveling takes to long >rotation is too complicated >bosses are too hard >grouping up with other players is too hard >game is too time consuming >grinding sucks
nobody actually enjoys mmos. they dont enjoy the moment to moment gameplay. they are only playing for a future reward
>Be a filthy gaijin playing DQX and pre-NGS PSO2 >Don't have to worry about rushing to endgame >Play "fotm KMMO" or "streamer MMO by the intern who worked on DAoC/SWG/GW1" >Only feel interested in getting to endgame
Unironically be the BR you always talked shit about
MMOs have always been a powder keg when it came to community, all the different groups from shitters to sweats to RPers to griefers, all in the same game, but not a real community. The second the MMO doesn't force them together kicking and screaming, the community will segregate into their own little actual communities.
they're really not. they all still have the same modern cliques and dedicated homosexuals who make the game shit for everyone else. only difference is it's an older version of a game that isn't completely dead. even then you'd wish it were
There is no world where this is true. PServers will be populated by the same individuals who are the source of all of the problems in retail MMOs, and until there is a rash of Private Server content expansions and/or additive/event content that gives a reason to actually play them instead of just the retail experience, there is no difference in games other than the lack of a sub or lack of official moderation. The only hope for a good MMO experience is joining a Guild that is social, active, and plays precisely the way you want to play, whether that involves being a sweatlord, a casual RPer, or just someone who plays content at a semi-decent competency to completion.
Private servers are in no way shape or form a good MMO experience, they are inhabited by people who want to treat old MMOs with the same esports/min max/solo approach they take to modern games. It's disappointing to see so many people completely miss the point of these old titles and base their gameplay on ego inflation instead of having a comfy time making friends.
you're all wrong. people playing on private servers of old mmos are thankful to even have a server to play on, and in my experience, it's very comfy and a good way to make lasting friends with similar interests. you all sound like such unfun homosexuals.
>people playing on private servers of old mmos are thankful to even have a server to play on
That is not incongruous with my point. >in my experience, it's very comfy and a good way to make lasting friends with similar interests.
Similarly, this is not incongruous with my point.
I stated that the exact same problems with MMO communities are found on Private Servers, and there are innumerable insufferable people on Private Servers, as well as cliquish Forum-tier social barriers needed to be crossed before you can interact with /anybody/, much less being among the inner circle of a new group. Joining guilds that are your particular ideal in terms of gameplay is the best way to enjoy an MMO, but that can be done on Retail servers just as much as Private Servers, and if your only argument is "this community couldn't exist because otherwise the game wouldn't exist for them to play!", that's completely irrelevant to the discussion.
2 months ago
Anonymous
all this. the only way to make MMOs good again is to forcefully encapsulate them between the years 1999 and 2004
2 months ago
Anonymous
What the hell are these made up "barriers" bro just join the discord and start chatting people up, join a guild ingame, what the hell are you talking about, barriers? what? Have you ever considered nobody wants to interact with you because you come across as a massive homosexual the moment you open your mouth to speak?
2 months ago
Anonymous
thank you for proving that anon's point
2 months ago
Anonymous
Pretty sure that anon proved that he is a homosexual and nothing else, but ok
2 months ago
Anonymous
no, really, thank you for proving his point. discord and other social media like it are the reason MMOs are so shit now
2 months ago
Anonymous
You think you can just get around it? Why are you so adverse to it? It's really not a big deal at all?
2 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not sure if you don't know what I'm talking about, or if you're just being obtuse on purpose. I literally stated in my post that you can join a guild in or outside of a private server, and if it's your style, you will have fun in both groups. The only difference is that in a private server, the entire community is already set in stone because the ~100 active players all know each other. You can't socially maneuver the way you would in an actually active MMO, because one infraction will be noted community-wide almost instantly, and you might not even know what counts as an infraction until you've spent a notable amount of time just consuming their culture.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>~100 active players all know each other
not true, new people join all the time. >You can't socially maneuver the way you would in an actually active MMO, because one infraction will be noted community-wide almost instantly
the answer is simple, just don't be a homosexual, you are incapable of that I know.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>not true, new people join all the time.
What game are you playing where this is true? >the answer is simple, just don't be a homosexual, you are incapable of that I know.
This isn't really an argument, but you're not trying to make one either. I have plenty of MMO friends on FFXIV, PSO2, GW2, and a bunch of corpses of guilds and tons of memories on Luna Online, Eden Eternal, Trickster Online, Ragnarok Online, etc. It's easy to make friends, but when you have too small of a circle to appeal to (because all PServers are microscopic communities compared to an actually active MMO), your opportunities to socialize are limited. If you can make it work, that's fantastic, but the notion that a PServer is the "ideal" way to enjoy an MMO in any capacity is an outright falsehood.
2 months ago
Anonymous
This has been my experience with a WoW Burning Crusade private server lol such stereotypical terminally-online Discord Black folk who vaguepost and try to smear your nose in innocent mistakes players make months down the road like they got a list of grudges
2 months ago
Anonymous
In truth, Discord as a third party requirement to play any games with a community has probably been the third largest blight upon the MMO industry (right behind wikis and dataminers), and the fact that it inherently fragments communities and outright invites drama via adjacency means that it'll permanently exist to ruin the experience of meeting groups online.
2 months ago
Anonymous
out of game communication has been a thing since the very start. guild forums and chatrooms existed in years past. hell, my kingdom in Utopia had its own ICQ relay
2 months ago
Anonymous
out of game communication used to be supplemental instead of endemic.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Even if they existed, they were not outright mandatory as they are now. If you join a guild in any MMO today, you will be expected to also be in the Discord or some other social media to coordinate/discuss matters, as opposed to being talked to in-game to do so. If you joined in the past, it was something you'd do for those who wanted to talk with a messenger that was a bit stronger, but it wasn't an outright requirement.
2 months ago
Anonymous
All of these fricking things have existed since the beginning of MMOs. You can fricking blame it all on le evil technology all you want, but the people who play MMOs today are just fricking losers, and that's why they're shit.
There is no world where this is true. PServers will be populated by the same individuals who are the source of all of the problems in retail MMOs, and until there is a rash of Private Server content expansions and/or additive/event content that gives a reason to actually play them instead of just the retail experience, there is no difference in games other than the lack of a sub or lack of official moderation. The only hope for a good MMO experience is joining a Guild that is social, active, and plays precisely the way you want to play, whether that involves being a sweatlord, a casual RPer, or just someone who plays content at a semi-decent competency to completion.
Private servers are in no way shape or form a good MMO experience, they are inhabited by people who want to treat old MMOs with the same esports/min max/solo approach they take to modern games. It's disappointing to see so many people completely miss the point of these old titles and base their gameplay on ego inflation instead of having a comfy time making friends.
It's objectively a fricking dogshit game, it barely counts as a game at all, it was only ever fun because of the social interaction which today's runescape community legitimately fricking hates, to the point that there are people who turn off chat when they go to wintertodt and fishing trawler, as if the moronic conversations people have there are a bad thing, and not the only thing that can keep a normal person barely sane when they're grinding those horrible fricking minigames.
Runescape is a really good example on how metagaming efficiency can ruin a game in the long run. I'm more interested in questing over getting 99 in everything, at least until everything got changed.
this is what a lot of people fail to understand about most MMOs. at their core they are glorified chatrooms with myriad mini games to idly play while chatting. runescape before runescape 3 is probably the chief example of this.
by the way, <>< lvl?
You think you can just get around it? Why are you so adverse to it? It's really not a big deal at all?
i think once people started integrating third party software to chat to their guild mates outside of voice chat during raiding it became a really big deal. you took the social aspect of an MMO and transplanted a significant portion of it somewhere else
The soul system was pretty fun. quite a few MMO's from around that time had good ideas but WoW was still in a decent state at that point and people still had faith in Blizzard. I think if an MMO came out today that took all of those ideas it could do pretty well.
have a nice day autist, learn to communicate with people like a normal person.
There isn't, but there is absolutely a problem when your requirement to engage with the game's community is contingent entirely on you being invited to a Discord server.
any guild you're in will give you an invite, it's a very easy requirement, not difficult at all. what's the issue here exactly?
>whatever happens in game should stay in game
no?
how am I gonna plan events or raids?
how am I going to talk shit with my friends?
I can't get over how much of a lonely friendless nerd you sound like lmao.
There isn't, but there is absolutely a problem when your requirement to engage with the game's community is contingent entirely on you being invited to a Discord server.
have a nice day autist, learn to communicate with people like a normal person.
[...]
any guild you're in will give you an invite, it's a very easy requirement, not difficult at all. what's the issue here exactly?
i dont communicate with trannies.
(unless youre a shemale with a big wiener????)
>removal of ARR
buddy this is the original version, XIV homosexuals edited it because they can't come up with shit without stealing it from better games
Rent free
XI is better than XIV
i would say ff11 was the last good pve mmo
they ruined it now, but when it released it had just the right mix of pacing, immersion, and social elements
Euerka showed that was a lie.
eureka was not like FFXI. it was a pale approximation of a few of its systems but lacked the sense of adventure that brought it together. on top of which, xiv’s combat was not designed for such a system and is very boring to grind with.
There are people that still do Eureka to this day, in fact when I did bozja/eureka it's like an entirely different community with people actually using the chat function and just joining random parties and chilling with like minded individuals
XI was better then every MMO besides vanilla WoW. CoP and ToAU mogged TBC and Wrath pretty hard.
XI ruined other mmos for me.
correct
true and real
WoW was never good
Bro nobody even thinks of xiv. It's second life with extra steps and a sub fee.
Weird self-report to think its immediately talking about you. This is an issue with most MMOs and other games coming out lately. Last Epoch was pretty much dead on the right side image.
THE ADVENTURES OF TIGOLE
No one mentioned XIV though? That is, until you brought it up... xister...? You got something you want to tell us...?
>play a classic MMO
>use less braincells than a modern MMO
>causes me to fall asleep
You know we can play the old ones right? This image doesn't disprove reality.
The audience asked for all of this. If you actually played a lot of MMOs back in the day you'd always see people whinging and wanting shit to be easier. Now everything is "easier" but still tedious because the devs still need some kind of treadmill to keep people on, so nothing really changed because the grind is still here and it didn't get any easier. People still grind just as much as they did before except devs have figured out that you can get people to stick around even longer with dailies.
Now MMOs don't have a soul and are meant to appeal to whales and players who want pure solo experiences with absolutely zero incentive to group up, but don't want to play single player games.
meant for OP obviously.
The covid years were the last years that MMORPGs actually felt social. Everything was booming more than ever and felt a bit more like the old days. After covid fizzled out it just kinda bled slowly and still is. Doesn't help that MMO devs are increasingly becoming out of touch to what makes the genre what it is.
It was social because everything else IRL was doubly antisocial from the usual. But still in things like retail everyone kept on preferring solo (though that's also a game design issue). Only in Classic you could witness something of the "good old days".
It was always less about asking to make things easier in terms of actual difficulty but to be less tedious in terms of social dynamics. Raiding with 40 people is really fun, wrangling 40 people to raid with is one of the levels of hell. Dividing loot among your party to make it the strongest is interesting, arguing with strangers who don’t give a teeny tiny shit about anybody else and think they deserve everything is horrible. Finding somebody to sell an item that you don’t need anymore or just crafted to is fun, competing with the israelites, chinks, and nolifers on the AH who undercut you at every turn is not.
In terms of genuine gameplay difficulty modern MMOs are a million times more difficult than stuff even 10 years ago, and the older ones like vanilla WoW or EQ are so brain dead easy it’s almost insulting to the player.
People also discount how readily knowledge is available nowadays. If you get stuck anywhere in five seconds you’ll find a dozen guides and threads telling you exactly what the solution is, 20 years ago you asked in chat and your friends list and if nobody knew you were out of luck.
>social dynamics
Now they have made everything so convenient that there is no more social dynamic in MMOs
I've always wondered how an MMO would do if it removed the hierarchal top down nature of guilds. Instead of having an official guild you had to be invited to or friend invites you send, have the game keep track of who you party with and recommend them as a friends list.
Albion has a sort of "global" guild system where you have to pledge allegiance to a faction and then players run guilds under those nations. I think systems like this have been tried in other games too but it really helps with the social aspect by almost immediately pitting the player in an "us vs them" scenario and giving you a side. Additionally makes care bears less scared of open world PvP mechanics as they will have 1/3rd-1/4th of the server on their side for free.
no mmorpg will ever succeed in the future unless whales, groomers and carebears are banned on sight
>no mmorpg will ever succeed in the future unless whales, groomers and carebears are banned on sight
Why would they ban their highest paying customers?
because a mmorpg needs normal people who actually play and enjoy games or it is a ghost town
Normal people playing MMOs was a fad, it'll never happen again.
Exactly. back in the golden age of MMOs, mass communication and cooperation within a game was a novel concept. Now we have online multiplayer in most games, VR chatrooms, social media.
What? They're the target audience
MMOs were never good
Actually this. Before WoW took off, the MMO markets was flooded with freemium korean trash. If you were lucky, you found a gem like RO.
true say
The people who played them used to make MMOs interesting. Now those kinds of people all moved onto social media leaving behind all the ultra loser neckbeards and mental invalids nobody likes not even themselves
>it's fun with friends
the age old defense of shit games
Frick you, anon! I loved Slikroad Online!!
XUE HUA PIAO PIAO!!!
Millenials grew up and zoomers took over
And zoomers are fricking moronic, they are the gacha generation
>Millenials grew up
Yeah the nostalgia and remake generation “grew up” kek
>and remake generation
That's your generation who can't play anything older than 2010, zoomie
Are you moronic? Zoomers have no connection to most remakes they’re an uncertain market unlike soillenials who can’t shut the frick up about the slop they consumed when they were younger
>they’re an uncertain market
zoomers are the most certain market that has ever existed. your entire generation is deflated mass of play-dough ripe for exploitation and disposal.
>ripe for exploitation and disposal
No, that’s what all the immigrants you guys imported are for
Explain why every trending game for the past few years has only the smallest of similarities to each other. If it was such a certain market then they'd all be the same FPS and zombie shooters millennials were forced to endure.
>Are you moronic? Zoomers have no connection
Yet it is zoomers that show up to buy these shitty slop remakes because they cant play the original because its "too dated"
Millenials already playing that garbage decades ago moron, zoomers are the ones that refuse to play anything old because "it looks too old" so they need to apply a new coat of paint to old shit for them to actually play it
your generation is nostalgic about Windows Vista
?si=nYuC2Xy4DzEecPIg
Mate your generation is nostalgic about something they didn't even experience
You mean how some millennials are nostalgic for 80s? "Born in the wrong generation" is not a new thing.
>You mean how some millennials are nostalgic for 80s?
honestly never heard of such a case
im aware of people liking cyberpunk scifi themes in a fictional 80s or the 80's dream of the 2000s. 80s is just a low tech 90s, with a whole decade more before anything gets interesting
I must be the only person who hates having been born in the 80's. The technology was primitive and so were the videogames. Turning 18 today is far better than turning 18 in the 90's. The games and tech my nephew takes for granted today would have blew my fricking mind as a kid.
That's not even getting into the sheer amount of games on offer and the ridiculously cheap prices for those games and all the sales on Steam, Xbox Store & PSN.
Smartphones and tablets were literally science fricking fiction I could only dream about after watching Star Trek.
Gamers and tech nerds coming of age have never had it better.
I see the just thinking about it.
>. Turning 18 today is far better than turning 18 in the 90's
HA
Let me guess, you shame men for being virgins while also calling out women with a high bodycount?
Correct, zoomers are perhaps the most moronic generation in mankind history
>You mean how some millennials are nostalgic for 80s?
this doesnt happen. people born in the 90s dont want to life in the 80s and people born in the 80s dont want to life in the 70s
you are the first generation that wants to ape their parents life. my mother who was dancing in the disco would never want to be like her mother LOL. zoomers are truly cursed
frick off. "le born in the wrong generation" was such a meme people were actively laughing at others for it.
The ever present "ahh the music was so good back then" under music from old bands from 70s and 80s. Same with movies. It's something that happens every generation, don't pretend like it's a new thing.
nope. you can cope with it all you want. your generation is the first one that failed to create its own culture or subculture. all you do is ape the things from other generations. you cant even come up with your own memes
>xe says while scrolling through xer folder "remember what they took from you" with deepfried 50s ads
You will never be 50s american with a picket fence.
and you will never have your own subcultures your generation is trash.
but enough about millennials
i accept your defeat zoomer
>goth culture
stolen from 80s goths
>metal
stolen from 80s metal
>emo
stolen from early 90s emo
>hipster
that one goes straight to 50s
that's a lot of unique culture you have there, shitlennial. Care to explain yourself? What was so uniquely yours, again?
im glad im not a ugly zoomer youre truly part of the worst shit generation ever to exist. your generation is fricking trash lol
>no arguments
I accept your concession.
Yeah, the shitty consumerist mallgoth version of 80s subculture, that you gays are so proud of.
thank god im not a zoomer
your stepdad should've beat you way more and raped you way less
>>goth culture
zoomer intelligence right here
>zoomer reading comprehension
what a self report
It's not weird, millenials literally had the best childhood. The internet was starting, amazing video games, and the future looked hopeful.
Objectively true. I could go out and scrape my knees playing football with the lads on the park, having all kinds of crazy fun healthy for the age and then go home and play Pokemon Blue in my gameboy or Panzer Dragoon II Zwei in my Sega Saturn. It was the perfect balance.
Even 90's tv and movies were leagues better.
And now I feel nostalgic. Frick.
It was the tail end of the 80's economic boom. Returns were guaranteed so even the big sleazy companies just hired real artists, writers and programmers then let them do whatever they wanted.
The 90's and 00's were transitional decades where we had the perfect balance between "modern life" and "traditional life". We had technology, but it didn't dominate every facet of life - we had lives outside of technology. The internet was for nerds, and most information you wanted to know was still in the library or you needed to know someone.
I feel more alone now than I did being an ostracized dork sitting at the nerd table in high school. Giving the internet and social media to normies was the worst thing to happen to humanity.
>and the future looked hopeful.
yeah, we liberals fought back against censorous religious twats and won.... just so my fellow liberals devolved into censorous peeminists and woketrannies.
Also an exciting era for the internet, movies and games, with CGI revolutionizing the movie industry and 3D revolutionizing the gaming industry.
IMO, the only forms of entertainment that kind of sucked in the 90's-to-mid 2000's was music and to some extent, TV.
this, it's literally been nothing but downhill, for every innovation, like high speed internet and smartphones, we've been cursed with social media and hypergamy
And I wish I was born in the 60s instead of the 90s..
I might have had an easier time owning a house.
These stupid Black folk think it’s nostalgia.
It’s just pining for a better time. Like before everything was completely FRICKED.
>t.
this is stupid. Women were working a lot of the factories and mills during WW2 while all the men were overseas, so they gained new opportunity and WANTED jobs
So if women have to work jobs, that means they want to. Before WW2, since they weren't working these jobs, that must mean they didn't want to. What is it about world wars specifically that make women want to work?
>So if women have to work jobs, that means they want to. Before WW2, since they weren't working these jobs, that must mean they didn't want to.
because they were mens jobs, and women were sewers mother or cooks. Mechanics and industry were men. With them gone, women had a chance to do that
what part of this is confusing to you?
That's not what you said. You said because women had to work these jobs, all of a sudden they WANTED to. Before they had to work these jobs, how could you tell they wanted to?
>You said because women had to work these jobs
when and where did I say that?
I'm sorry, you're right. Then how do you know women wanted to work these jobs and not that they had to?
well lets think
would you WANT to be a stay at home wife sewing all day while your husband/son/brother gets shot at by tojo and fritz, or would you want to work on cars or for the war effort to end the war
The former, of course.
history says otherwise
Granting that that survey is true - what percent of the female population actually went to work these jobs?
More than six million women took wartime jobs in factories, three million volunteered with the Red Cross, and over 200,000 served in the military. Women’s auxiliary branches were created for every branch of the military, including the Women’s Army Corps (WAC), Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service (WAVES), and Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASP). Women were restricted from combat zones; however, many became nurses to help the men injured in combat.
And what was the total female population at that time? In the survey, what was the alternative to keeping these jobs? Were they asked if they would prefer to be jobless or have a job? Were they asked if they would rather be a mother and a housekeeper or have a job?
>this is stupid. Women were working a lot of the factories and mills during WW2 while all the men were overseas, so they gained new opportunity and WANTED jobs
>So if women have to work jobs, that means they want to. Before WW2, since they weren't working these jobs, that must mean they didn't want to. What is it about world wars specifically that make women want to work?
>because they were mens jobs, and women were sewers mother or cooks. Mechanics and industry were men. With them gone, women had a chance to do that
>
>what part of this is confusing to you?
this convo is so stupid it hurts
Can you show women want to work these jobs without using circular reasoning?
the fricking irony using that pic
It's okay, grant him the picture for the sake of argument.
She's just like me fr
90's pop culture influence was still very present until like 2007. If they were a toddler around that time and has an elder sibling or more, they probably vaguely remember they watched their big bro playing GTA San Andreas, the MTV top chart, etc. The yearning came from that vague feeling and incomplete memories of how the life in that era truly was.
2002 here.
I had a PS1 since the day of my birth (Gift to my brother before he got a good PC) and until 2011, when i got a PS3 gifted for christmas. I've known a few folks who had a PS1 too, and lots of my friends would play in coop on mine when i invited them over. Growing up with that gen while being a zoomer is nothing unusual.
What i'm saying is that your pic sucks. If she had an NES or a Genesis era console in the pic, then yes, that pic would fit your point, but being a zoomer and experiencing n64/ps1/saturn is nothing unusual.
>That's your generation
I literally only ever see millennials jerk off these shitty remakes, disingenuous gay. Very rarely do I see zoomers jerking off remakes.
zoomers literally cant play "old" games untill they get REMADE. stop lying to yourself worthless zoomer. these games get a massive influx of zoomer fans once they do a REMAKE
Name one example.
World of Jackie Chan Adventures II.
frick you, world of jackie chan adventures ii was the best thing since world of jackie chan adventures
Me on the right
I cannot for the life of me understand how a genre that hinges around multiplayer gameplay is now completely overtaken by homosexuals who want to play solo.
Playing solo with the option of participating in group content is much better than being forced to group up for everything.
It's a societal thing anon. People are becoming increasingly isolated and mistrustful in the modern world due to sociopolitical and technological reasons. Adding to that things like the rona and you can see why it's become so difficult.
well anon, there are people that play COMPETITIVE TEAM GAMES and they instantly mute their teammates, saying proudly that "they only play solo." So it really shouldn't be a surprise, people are insane
In marketing, you should never try to appeal to both the casual and hardcore (dedicated) consumer at the same time, because they both want completly different features out of the same product. MMOs are fondly remember from the time they were for dedicated players, so everyone playing was on the same "wave". When they (and the industry) became popular and both fanbases mixed, they clashed and msot devs decided to remove reasons to clash which also removed reasons to interact.
There isn't much difference between the average modern MMO and a Monster Hunter game with a 100 person public Lobby.
Soe of Thieves was the clsoest to a proper "MMO" I played in the recent eyars, and it mostly proved me that maybe we don't need one big constant world if you're not gonna do anything with that mechanics, and instead give us betetr ways to have several people play together.
Like, really. Just make a MH or DRG styled game where the lobby is the public place and the missions vary in player size.
>MMOs are fondly remember from the time they were for dedicated players
This is like the complete opposite of reality
Do take into account "dedicated" does not mean that they are good or professionals. It refers to the smaller percentage of the consumer that looks out for new experiences, the pioners and early adopters. MMOs golden era was mostly people who wanted to have this experience because that's what they enjoyed or were itnerested rather than because it was what they were told to get into.
If a 10 or 50 yo was playing an MMORPG, it was because they were nerds or autistic and had reached that knowledge by themselves, and not because the media had told them to play these games. Now said games have to be accessible to both of these audiences on top of the dedicated one, and are designed as such, hence the loss of many reasons we were playing an MMO. That's what ruined the experience.
Also the digital era with faster flow of information. Before knowledge was gated or hard to get by, and in many MMO guilds had more private knowledge than some pages or forums. Nowdays, everything is known in days so it becomes a game of who optimizes faster.
Yes, but also, do not forget to make an interesting game. Dauntless was GaaS, MH is a whole game.
>Like, really. Just make a MH or DRG styled game where the lobby is the public place and the missions vary in player size.
What, like Dauntless?
playing Relink made me think that its fricking crazy it is probably the closest anyone has gotten to MH with more standard fantasy fare
surely something like thats a goldmine just waiting to be discovered
>i don't understand how israelites pushing society's technological development in the direction of atomization of its individuals is making people ever less social and isolated
you only had to look at zoomers and how they can only cope at every turn
This. MMOs used to be cooler because the people who played it used to be more local or restricted. It was cooler if the friend you made online was someone who was in the same state or country as you or the same race as you, because then there was more of a chance for your friendship to be relevant outside of just the game. If your online friend is someone in the middle of Baghdad or Bangkok - who really cares?
Early MMO's didn't have regional servers, though. Everybody played together.
Yeah but only white people could afford computers.
No, not "everybody". It was more local or restricted, geographically or otherwise. And that made it cooler.
It literally was not though, until WoW global servers were the norm. You had a lot of them, but anybody from anywhere could join whatever server.
Could=/=did. There were less formal restrictions, such as knowledge about computer, language, interest in the IP itself, etc.
I'm sorry you didn't get to experience the golden era, but I'm still friends with the very same foreigners I used to play asheron's call and then FFXI with back in the day.
Also, if we look closer at what race(s) predominates zoomers...
I didn't know they had computers in the asylum, anon. Are 'duh israelites' in the room with us right now?
No, but they are in the sewers in secret tunnels.
I thought collective ideologies(like communism) were spread by israelites, as opposed to based individualist cowboys
Because they were loud about it. In almost every MMO Ive played they whine so much even about just group content and not raid content. They also were among the first to cry about mechanics anytime something isn't a tank n spank.
Because MMORPGs have just turned into online social hubs where people just want to talk to eachother, brag about their achievements and character growth and e-peen points. It's easier and faster to collect e-peen points solo than it is to wait for minutes to hours to get together and coordinate a group to collect e-peen points.
So MMOs have turned into
>go out into the world solo
>collect e-peen points
>go back to city (social hub)
>brag about e-peen points to other people and ERP
>log out
Or in the off chance that you NEED to group with other people
>hang out in city (social hub)
>click button to enter queue
>brag about e-peen points and ERP with people in city (social hub) while waiting for queue to pop
>teleport into an instanced linear obstacle course specifically tailored around collecting e-peen points as a group and showing off your e-peen points competitively, therefore nobody actually socializes in the obstacle course because the time wasted socializing could be spent flexing your e-peen (DPS charts) or getting e-peen points faster (speedrunning the obstacle course)
>teleport back into city (social hub) to brag about e-peen points and ERP
That is it. That's been the quintessential MMO experience for the last 15 years.
>MMORPGs have just turned into online social hubs where people just want to talk to eachother
you live in a different reality, MMO communities basically don't exist anymore and people barely talk in game
I could have worded it differently but literally every mainstream modern MMO RPG I've tried is filled with parasites who refuse to actually play the game but stand still in a capital city or social hub just talking in global chat channels all day.
That's what I meant by that. People who don't even play the game and use the game as glorified social media. That's another problem plaguing modern MMORPGs that people don't bring up. People are dead silent when playing the game, but the social hubs are filled with people who don't even play the game but spend an upwards of 10 hours in-game just hanging out. They'll refuse to actually play the game with other people, don't contribute anything to the game's economy, they almost never go out into the game's world, and are often found in remote obscure corners with their characters naked lying down ontop of another naked character
this is what old mmos were all about. the main difference now is progression is solo questleveling or big raid based gearleveling instead of small group based leveling which was comfy and what people have fond memories about.
you would still stand around in town and chat with people and show off your stats, thats kind of the entire point of mmos really, gaining epeen. Its just the method of getting it used to be fun and social and require just enough teamwork and strategy that you felt like you were playing with people while not burning you out or just being monotonous questgrind soloing
chatting while sitting waiting for the spawn or regening mana then pulling off combos with your team mates was what made mmos popular
>this is what old mmos were all about.
Wrong.
>small group based leveling which was comfy and what people have fond memories about.
This is exactly what I was saying. People going out and PLAYING the damn game while socializing. Not logging in and contributing nothing to the game world by standing in a city speaking in global chat and with his guild mates for 10 hours about his favourite anime episode. People logged in with a purpose and plans for their game sessions that actually required grouping with your friends or guild mates and going out to do something, or even playing solo to grind out that one drop you wanted, which requires playing the damn game and often contributing to the economy selling things you don't particularly need.
Standing around in town and showing off your stats is fine and good, but having stats and item worth talking about requires playing the DAMN FRICKING GAME. Open any mainstream modern MMO on the market right now and you'll find max level characters sitting in a city hub whom, according to their achievements or an online database, have been max level for years, have never went through end game or completed any of the endgame raids or dungeons, don't PvP, barely do anything, are poorly geared, or dressed up in low level RP gear that simply looks nice, and seemingly all they do is stand around in the main hub of their server talking to people. People who literally don't touch the ACTUAL FRICKING GAME unless it's to reach level cap whenever a new expansion drops.
Chatting while sitting waiting for a spawn/regening mana actually required going out and PLAYING THE FRICKING GAME with the intent of clearing CONTENT with other people/competing with other people.
nayrt, but aren't you agreeing with each other?
The solo questline based progression means that you can't just park your ass in a popular location and talk to people who are also grinding there. Solo questline progression means everyone is constantly moving with no time to stop and talk.
There's nothing wrong with standing around town and talking, in fact more mmos should take advantage of that being a desired playstyle and have a minigame or something where you can passively progress while you're idling in down.
MMOs should let me roleplay as a merchant or blacksmith or some shit
I can't think of many games like this except for maybe FFXIV and PSO2NGS. What you're describing is how most MMOs were in 2005, except there was actually a good reason to sit around and make friends with people here and there, since you needed other people to play with a lot of the times. Networking was unironically beneficial but nowadays it doesn't even matter so the people still doing it are usually coomers and freaks.
Install NWN and join a persistent server.
That's what I did in Ragnarok Online when i didn't know how to progress my character next
It was fun but I was also 12/13 and enjoyed talking to people back then and having a group spot to speak to people with (next to the culvert entrance is where we hung out not in the city, but in private servers I just hung in the city due to low populations)
You see in RO there was a reason for hanging out in random places though as well, cause sitting is how you restore your health and sp, so talking to others sitting around made sense and making friends was fun.
I'm now an anti-social adult so things have only gotten harder for me to talk to others though, so I just go through content and ignore everyone
>Because MMORPGs have just turned into online social hubs
stopped reading, the very reason why mmorpgs fell off is that they stopped being social hubs and got superseded by social media as the top internet hangout
people want to play solo but do so in a world populated with others.
no they don't, they don't even want to see other players
It's like Farmville.
People want to look over and see what somebody else is doing and maybe get some free shit from interacting with them, but not actually play together in any meaningful way.
i want to play in a group, but modern mmos are designed to solo so i solo. its a game first i must play optimally
back in the late 90s and early 00s i grouped and enjoyed it, because that was many times better progression than soloing
mmo’s used to make challenging group content and shit players made the decent players get aggressive about builds and strategies thus alienating the vocal minority of frickheads who think it’s their god given right to never fail and never improve, thus dividing the playerbase and now devs can’t figure out a way to make a fun challenge without one side or the other crying forever.
its like half a team playing flag football while the other half is tackling and nobody is happy.
get some fresh air
The era of normalgays playing MMOs has long passed, if you're playing them now you probably have no real friends you can get to play it with you and social anxiety as a barrier to playing with people you meet in game.
>why play them then?
No other genre really offers huge, persistent worlds you can immerse yourself in for months or years. And like
said it is nice to sometimes see someone playing and know you're not completely alone.
I personally blame the proliferation of Black personhomosexual cattle like Yahtzee
gamers are on average antisocial losers
What I find funny is something like Runescape
>obscenely solo game for years
>nothing but trading, a couple minigames, and the designated PK area
>little in regards to cooperative content or actually relying on other players
>more content comes out that is mutliplayer
>they actively scrutinize and hate it if it gets anywhere close in XP rates and such as the skilling methods that put the clicks of chinese social media farms to shame
The people playing are so insufferable and soulless that if you dont have a formed group to play with then youre better off playing solo
I play vintage story on /vm/ because I like playing with others :3
this is really the crux of the matter
oldmmogays liked mmos because it forced people to hold hands with their autistic selves or nobody would progress
nummos allow people to progress most main forms of content without having to be anchored to some sweaty autistic frick that hasn't left his room for over a decade and is one stray comment away from going on a tirade calling everyone troons
This lmao. A lot of this disdain for being able to progress an MMO even slightly solo comes from the fact that it means the developer is no longer forcing people who wouldn't normally interact with each other to hold hands. Autists here are just shit-scared of forming friendships and playing together with others without the pretext of "we need to or else the game won't allow us to get anywhere."
World of Warcraft happened. It opened up the genre to people who previously were either not interested or outright filtered by it and made playing solo not just possible but the main way to progress through the game.
Did you even look at OP's pic?
Left is for solo/small group content set in a persistent always online world where the social landscape is always changing and you never know when your adventure might cross paths without someone else.
Right is for getting to the endgame and gearing up as fast as possible so that you can do the 'epic huge group content' and then logging off until the next one comes out.(Or when mr streamer says he needs a carry)
The problem with group content is that the groups either consist of normies who barely know how to use a keyboard or sweatlords who will nitpick everything you do while calling you moronic. There is little to no middleground. All of them are autistic, trans, furries, or any combination of the three.
Yeah MMO players never want to admit the reason everything became solo content is because no one wanted to deal with the homosexuals that play MMO games. It's impossible to fix MMOs because MMO players themselves are the problem.
This. The hardest part of savage content in xiv is dealing with mentally ill trannies, zoomers and antisocial morons
Incorrect, those players only showed up once WoW let them in.
Tigole and his gang of homosexuals were around in EQ, (which was the entire reason he got hired to help develop WoW, that, and him being israeli) so no. MMO players have always been the absolute bottom of the barrel of humanity.
And WoW was the first game designed specifically to cater to these people and let them feel welcome. MMORPG playerbases were full of the friendliest and most genuine people I've ever met, it's a shame WoW had to open the floodgates and let so many undesirable people into the genre.
>Played many MMOs
>Had a great time doing super high end endgame content in FFXI
>Entire group was trustworthy and more of a family than anything
>Had eachothers phone numbers AND login info was shared freely
Imagine sharing the login info of anything with someone today, meanwhile back then we had no problem giving eachother info to accounts with tens and tens of thousands of hours of work put into them worth thousands of real life dollars if sold.
can we ever retvrn?
I highly doubt it, I've given up hoping and instead just try to enjoy what I can of todays games.
no? the people that played MMOs back in the day are adults now and dont have the time to put in the hours being in a MMO world and zoomers dont really care about MMos
Ive literally been at guild mates weddings, people I only met a few years ago
(You) arent part of the modern cliques because youre unlikeable, not because they dont exist anymore
youre a troony though its not the same
Can you stop calling anons you have no argument against trannies? Its embarrassing
modern cliques are all antisocial discord gatekeepers lmao
>crying about gatekeeping
lol, yeah youre the type of gay nobody wants to be around
once again proves hes a troony
LOL
this is pathetic anon, please stop projecting
stop letting random discord dudes nut in your pozhole
youre genuinely unhinged
everyone uses discord, you would know this if you had any friends at all
please dont cry candy ass
Give him a break he's posting from the tablet his mom gave him.
Anyone who brings up discord as some sort of boogyman is clearly not mentally sound.
>doubles down on being a discord troony that caused the death of MMOs
damn you hate to see it, how long have you been on HRT
>(You) arent part of the modern cliques because youre unlikeable
lol speak for yourself homosexual. i have a social life in every other video game except xiv
>>Had eachothers phone numbers AND login info was shared freely
nobody did this lmao are you stupid?
Bro? Tiamat just popped at 5:27 AM what other method are you going to use to get people online?
we did
sorry you didn't have real mmo friends
everybody used to batphone back in the days. moron
This is really the alpha and omega of the problem. If I can play with friends, I can evade the issue entirely and have a blast from start to finish, but if I'm expected to socialize with randoms and I wind up running into either picrel or ego-bloated hogs that think they're gaming's gods for doing a rotation slightly better, I'd rather just play solo as far as possible and drop it when I can't go on.
I haven’t had a real life or online friend since 2011/2012.
homosexuals that can't handle casual death threats and schizophrenic rants turned the internet.
I timed out on Shiva Extreme once because the healers didn't understand her weapon gimmick.
75 minutes of my life gone, because of someone with an IQ lower than that.
WoW and dumb americans.
It's almost like you can put "=" sign between those pictures.
>you start here
>wher you must go
>buy boost only 200g/run
It's Classic alright
>old MMOs
>designed to waste your time
>everything is slow and tedious
>no idea where to go unless you speak to fellow players
>POIs are usually just spots to grind mobs or quests
>new MMOS
>designed to waste your time
>everything is slow and tedious except combat, which is baby easy
>websites spoil every aspect of the game before the patch drops, can't just discover new content on your own if you're in a group because nobody wants to "waste time"
>POIs are used once for a throwaway quest and then never touched again
MMOs are legitimately the worst genre of games, designed solely to waste your time and keep you hooked so you keep that sub active.
>>no idea where to go unless you speak to fellow players
Imagine interacting with other players in an MMO
STOP FRICKING WASTING THE PLAYERS TIME!!!
I DON'T WANT TO "EXPLORE"
JUST POINT ME IN THE FRICKING DIRECTION!!!
STOP FRICKING WASTING MY TIME!!!
MMO's have always fricking sucked
Boring ass chore simulators
Are they based now because they filter the gacha dopamine addicts? I mean you got to work hard to experience the best parts of the game which is both odd but welcoming.
I still play them
People feel the need to 'finish' games in order to have a good time. Either way, MMOs were never hard.
every single person that i knew that played vanilla wow used mods to tell you where to go for quests
no one cares about the shitty story or trying to figure things out
the whole genre is a skinnerbox, people just want numbers to get bigger
you have to be completely braindead to enjoy this shit either today or back then
WoW shouldn't be considered the pinnacle of the genre in regards to quests, WoW has really shitty quests, their only purpose is to waste your time.
We played it when it was new and had a blast. We would play the horde as monsters. Hide under bridges between the Alliance starting area where the pirate dungeon was and the Ravenloft area then try and gank. Lots of fun to be had that wasn't "beating" the game.
People stopped trying to make real worlds and started caring about stupid shit like muh balance/end game
Blame league of legends for that, ever since they introduced the idea of rotating metas through routine powercreep it's plagued MMOs.
Idk anything at all about "modern mmos," I only play on private servers from vanilla WoW to WOTLK. My two cents is there is always going to be a dichotomy between filling a group and having perfect performance. If I'm running some heroic in Wrath, it doesn't matter up to a point if my dps players aren't pulling max dps, so it allows the community to be accepting of each other; however, after my 100th time running the heroic, it is frustrating if someone clearly doesn't know how to play their class and are pulling less dps than the tank since it just wastes my time for no reason. As you enter harder content, performance matters more, but it's the same dynamic of needing to fill a group, and performance/boredom causing friction between players because "we could be clearing 3 minutes faster!"
I've been on the opposite end of the stick too, when I was asked to main tank a raid despite normally being a healer. I had limited experience tanking; however, I told the raid that I was NOT some l33t tank who knew every meta strat.. They proceeded to kick the offtank to bring an extra dps because it was the "meta" strategy, and then got pissed at me when I couldn't do both the main and offtank role under the raid's time constraint.. Of course they were just muttering under their breath like eastern european homosexuals on discord, but the raid dissolved in like 15 minutes because I told them to frick off.
What is the real solution to that though? They took a risk on a newer tank thinking they could over load me and that I would randomly learn without being taught. I took the risk thinking that I could do it. Both parties have a shit experience and now dislike each other.
What is the real solution to that though?
The real solution = to have things planned beforehand. They have failed on that big time: they didn't have time to train you (you would get it after 20-30 pulls). It's like you're going to a bank heist and invite a random guy - you're all going to jail.
>private servers from vanilla WoW to WOTLK
Opinion discarded and post hidden. You people are the reason this genre is garbage.
WoW was the first modern mmo
blizzard hired some top EQ raiding guild to help them design WoW and they designed the living world elements out of mmos in favor of streamlining raiding pipeline.
now instead of being a world simulator where progression was nearly infinite and multifaceted mmos were about not standing in red things and capping out on progression then waiting for the next raid to come out.
As time has progressed post WoW more and more of the vestigial living world elements WoW still had have been refined out further
>blizzard hired some top EQ raiding guild to help them design WoW and they designed the living world elements out of mmos in favor of streamlining raiding pipeline.
This needs to be talked about more. The people who made vanilla WoW what it was did it BEFORE Jeff Kaplan and the Everquest people were hired on. The game was 3/4 of the way complete before they got hired on.
Then Blizz laid people off shortly after release, and the culture and design of the game shifted to favor what the EQ people, who managed to not get laid off, favored.
We need middle ground.
MMOs of the past were about the journey they felt like you actually went on an adventure. I haven't felt that same sense of adventure for a very long time. I mostly blame blizzard trying to make the mmo genre as accessible as possible and the fans screaming at every future mmo developer how they want wow classic but not by blizzard. In short the genre you know is a a byproduct of it's era and retired.
>MMOs of the past were about the journey they felt like you actually went on an adventure
That's cuz the leveling was slow, so it took time to get through each area. Once you got to a new area you would probably be there for a bit, that made people appreciate the art and backgrounds and shit a lot more.
Now modern MMOs make the leveling journey basically not matter and you can end up seeing the entire game in a matter of days. It's all because people b***hed about how slow leveling used to be, yet these are the same homosexuals that still grind 50 hours in one map for 0.01% exp on maplestory and tell themselves it's a better game than it used to be because the "leveling is so fast".
>That's cuz the leveling was slow
That was only one aspect. It literally felt like a dnd session. You meet up with people at the designated meeting spot. You then travel out to the area which takes time. Do whatever the frick you want and then disband. It was literally an adventure something Wow killed sadly.
How is LOTRO in 2024, lads? Haven't tried it before but I hear good things about it. Will it rekindle that "the world and adventure is actually important" feel that old MMORPGs used to have?
Sandbox MMOs like Albion Online are just better than your themepark grinders.
OP's butthole gets really sore and inflamed every time he has this argument and nobody agrees with him
>MMOs have always been for huge morons
>huge morons think they are geniuses compared to new huge morons
lol
Just play OSRS
Also there's nothing wrong with a wiki, and I'm pretty sure wikis are all but dead for both of the most popular mmos (WoW, XIV).
social aspects getting replaced with convenience and bots
It would help to socialize in MMOs if there was more of a chance for those relationships to be relevant in more than just the game itself. Like if the players were more geographically restricted, shared the same life experiences as you, were the same race, etc.
The best experience in MMO's I've had is discovering there are people from all over the planet that are similar to myself. Regional locks are the worst thing to happen because unless you live in a bubble there is no way to play with friends. I'd take 200 ping gameplay any day of the week if it means me and a portuguese dude get to bully the JP's unfortunate enough to post up next to us in town.
And all you do is relevant to just the game, huh? You're so small-minded. Imagine posting up to BRs in-game and in real life with the same friend. This is what excites the mind and incentivizes wanting to socialize in an MMO.
I can imagine playing with poles and experiencing kurwaspam all day - which is exactly why I never admit my country when playing online and I'm glad I'm not confined to my shithole.
No its not.
>t. anon from one of the regions that often had local ip locked servers
Fricking nobody wants to play with people they share country with outside of eops and maybe few different eu inbred states, particularly frogs.
the companies that made them went public and ended up being run by the stock holders, Most people dont realize it, but stock holders are usually big banks, investment and retirement funds and other corporations not individual people.
They dont care about GAMES or ART or any of that. They expect STOCK GROWTH ENDLESSLY.
So they send in SUITS to make sure the people that used to make GAMES make PURE PROFIT instead. Usually they hang on for like 5 years then leave when the SUITES demands actually prevent them from making what they want and they sell off their own stock and open a new company. Rinse and repeat.
All the while the games you used to love get made EASIER and or DUMBER for the LARGER AUDIENCE and NORMIES they want to get on the Micro Trans tit.
Reminder that a israeli CEO has more in common with the average israelite than with a white CEO.
was killing 100000 boars really the height of gaming for you? things were dragged out simply to keep you subbed.
>MMOs now
>Expecting you to travel in any capacity instead of just letting you idle in a queue inside a city and teleporting anywhere you need to go once the game finds 20 random players that might as well be bots for you
WoW literally killed the mmo genre. It bulldozered over it and constructed a singleplayer themepark with occassional coop over its remains.
Most bizarre experience with modern MMO games is how nobody uses chat anymore. Even guild chats are silent and everyone is telling you to use Discord. I don't want this stupid botnet, I just want to play.
Everyone uses private discord channels because you can actually say what you want to say. 90% of public chat lobbies are so heavily moderated that you can't say anything even remotely interesting or you'll get banned and have your money stolen.
I don't like it either, but it is what it is. Blame the easily offended and overtly censorious pieces of human garbage that gained power and control over companies instead of being told to eat shit and die like they used to.
why is convenience bad? dont lie telling me you want to explore or discover shit by yourself you just want to get gear, level up or catch up to current content
I want to explore shit with others, and convenience is the enemy of that. Inconvenience is what forced you into social situations and led to places where you would run into the same players over and over again. It's a weird feeling to learn players names just by using the same boat or airship or by having to rely on them to accomplish something you can't alone or through a queue. Not every MMO needs to be like this, but I'm sad there aren't any new ones as they've led to a lot of very good friendships throughout the years in my experience.
from your post, you probably don't really like MMOs or RPGs. You shouldn't be angry since current MMOs are made just for you
>catch up to current content
This is the problem.
Emphasis on vertical progression is the problem.
>you just want to gear up, level up, and get to current content
no. i want to have fun playing a game and rushing like a sperg to the end just leaves me bored and empty. being max level with BiS gear and clears in every raid is literally the end of an mmo, it’s the opposite of fun. i want to have an adventure on the way to that ending and spergs turned it into speedrunning a checklist.
>dont lie telling me you want to explore or discover shit by yourself you just want to get gear
I can tell from experience that low level exploration based gearing has always been more enjoyable to me than high level raid based gearing.
When you're leveling up and your gear is often 10 levels apart, finally crafting that "new" equipment from hauling ass to a new zone to kill that spider for it's special silk or elemental for its specific essence feels very rewarding. Sometimes the piece may not even be that great, but it's all you can craft at the moment so you'll make do with what you have.
Compared to raiding where the power level difference between gear is magnitudes greater than leveling gear it. It manages to lose a lot of the reward factor when you're just doing the same content on progressively harder difficulties for gear that is slightly more optimized than whatever purple piece of loot you already have.
This, and I miss that aspect of MMOs. Back when I played Maplestory I remember low level scrolled gear still actually mattered, there was always going to be someone willing to buy it to use for their next 10 levels. Nowadays leveling is so fast that none of that gear will ever matter to anyone and it's just taking up space in the game. It's so fricking lame.
I prefer my gear to be more static but less common and more impactful. Getting gear dropped of any rarity should never feel fully bad. It, at worst, should feel useful to sell or dismantle, and this last part is related to how common said loot is. Make it rare, so the sell price can be a "hey this uncommon sword isn't for my build but hey with the money I can get some upgrade/couple nice potions".
Most games nowdays make loot so common but trash, tied to progression goals and/or "linked to account" you're both showered in rewards and enjoying none of it.
It's really cool when you equip new gear and you can feel the change, but you need to restrain the game with loot for that.
I feel like most of what people are talking about is in classic wow right now if you have ever played it before and don’t look stuff up.
I joined classic after never playing wow before I read the quest text I go on an adventure I follow the storyline through the zones (I’m playing undead and have so far followed the undead storyline through 4-5 zones and several dungeons) it’s very fun and enjoyable. Leveling is slow so I get to explore every nook and cranny of each zone.
Sometimes harder quests pop up that REQUIRE a group of 3-4 people to tackle I group up and have some fun.
Good gear if you get it can last a long time and carry you it doesn’t get thrown away shortly after. (I got the robes of arugal from SFK and kept them for almost 15 levels)
I wonder how many complaints in this thread are valid and how many are just people who can’t find anything new because they are old and have experienced everything already. You can’t really make a brand new and innovative MMO in 2024. Nothing new under the sun.
Convenience is bad because it removes the rewards from preparation and time optimisation.
It also makes things very disposable and removes the weight and significance from many of the systems in the game.
>or catch up to current content
why does that matter?
do you play games like a check box of things you have to do ASAP?
have you never thought to yourself how mentally unwell that is?
Convenience means you are no longer forced to interact with the attention prostitutes that are old MMO players and it kills them inside.
Man I'd love to play vidya with chimps
Or gorillas
No market for the left
Besides OSRS I guess
troons took over the dev teams and playerbase
>hate people
>hate grinding
>even seeing other players in wow made me annoyed
>can now play by myself, get everything i need by myself and only see people when im queued to kill them
i dont see the issue
WoW released and everyone tried to copy them without realizing that it wasn't good game design that made it successful.
>coming to wow from ragnarok as a kid
>you get to see the gear you equipped in your character when you equip it
>you get to ride animals around
>characters can jump and have several animations for different attacks
I remember being mesmerized by those pvp raid videos where groups would run from stormwind all the way to orgrimmar to frick shit up. Good times.
MMO's were always fricking dogshit. It's a dogshit genre.
>no quests
>no singleplayer story mode
>no forced groupfinder dungeons with random idiots
>no gear treadmill
>no content bloat
>can take a break for years without falling behind
>no fomo
>nothing locked behind level requirements
Why aren't you playing Albion yet?
i can't connect to the server
It's the same in both, you just learned to read the game.
Stuck in 2004 designwise.
Stop huffing nostalgia, my dude. Old MMOs were not complex.
buuuyn
>MMO playerbase is the most anti-social it's ever been
>game design has extremely solo friendly progression and quest structure
>gear still shackled to RNG drop chance
>class design structure has somehow regressed, CC is non-existent, Support classes are non-existent. There is only damage, healing and tanking.
>Crafting systems outside of making consumables is useless in 99% of MMOs because people would complain that crafted gear is on-par or better than dungeon/raid gear for "less effort" i.e. how many times you pull the lever on the slot machine.
>devs only seem to know how to make endgame content i.e. Raids so anything before endgame is considered pointless because it doesn't facilitate the endgame systems
These are just general musings on some things I think are issues with the genre. There are other things too like p2w systems in Korean grinders but they're thankfully still trapped in their own little circle of hell that hasn't bled into the genre as a whole.
Can't you basically straight up buy raid carries in wow and trade premium currency for actual gold in world of warcraft? Can't you also do that in runescape?
Yes, but I'd still consider that a community thing and not something that is actively encouraged and facilitated by the game itself. There isn't a blurb in the cash shop selling you a token saying "It's great for those who don't have time to form a raid!" or whatever.
>not something that is actively encouraged and facilitated by the game itself
Wowtokens don't exist?
Do the devs encourage playerbase to use it for GDKP runs, yes or no?
Can you sell wow tokens for in-game currency? How many times are you going to be a goalpost moving wowbabby homosexual?
Do the devs encourage the playerbase to use it for GDKP runs, yes or no?
nta, but Mike Ybarra, the blizzard president that was selling runs and such for gold, has left the company. And then a few weeks later blizzard banned GDKP raids on the season of discovery game mode
>Nooooo buying tokens with real money that allow you to sell them for gold and pay for raid carries isn't pay to win because the devs don't explicitly tell you what to do with the gold you bought using real money!
So you're a mentally moronic blizzdrone, understood. Never thought I'd see the day where wowgays would cope as hard as black desert players when people call their shit game pay to win. Thought you queers at least had some humility left after being kicked down so hard.
Is there a little pop-up window telling you if you're having trouble clearing content to buy a wow token to buy a clear? Does the game send you a reminder that the weekly reset is tomorrow and that you should top up on those wow tokens for your next GDKP run? There is a marked difference between company facilitated and player facilitated usage. Even factoring in
Mike Ybarra selling runs, there was never a company wide edict to push it onto people, that was just his little side hustle. It is not even close to being on the same level as your most basic Korean P2W cash shop, they really have it down to a science over there. I don't doubt that Blizzard would do something similar if they knew they could get away with it. There's a reason the token has been the only real attempt to monetize the game with something that could be used in a P2W manner while everything else is just Cosmetics. I find it somewhat amusing that you didn't attempt to discuss any of my other points and instead instantly honed in on the P2W aspect despite it being more of an afterthought ancillary to my main arguments, I had never even mentioned WoW in my original post.
>If it doesn't fit all of this autistically specific criteria then it's not p2w!!
kek, see
Are you able to actually argue the points I'm making or not?
Are you able to admit that your favorite game is pay to win, when you can use real money to buy tokens, trade those tokens for in-game gold, and use the in-game gold for carries to get the best gear?
I don't play WoW, I'm just able to understand the nuances between the WoW token and a full on cash shop. I can tell this fact is really upsetting you because you're responding emotionally and you were probably burned by the game at some point.
WoW has both m8
What other options exist besides the token?
Pray tell anon. What is the nuance between buying a premium item to sell for in-game currency and buying a premium item to sell for in-game currency?
Most Korean cash shops sell direct player power upgrades like attack bonuses, movement speed, etc or even straight up standard game functions like auto-loot, inventory space, hell even the ability to /shout. It really isn't comparable to a token that one could use to buy gear and clears. The fact that you cannot understand the difference is really confusing to me.
So WoW is still p2w, but less compared to asiatic grinders. Gotcha, glad you were able to admit to the game allowing players to buy endgame gear with legitimate means. See? Being honest isn't hard at all.
I literally admitted that here
and
and that was never my point, my point was always that it was not on the same level as Korean P2W games, which is another beast entirely. Your desperate attempts to try and gotcha me are genuinely pathetic.
>Wow is p2w b-but it's not that bad because it's not asiatic grinders levels of p2w!
Blizztrannies are really on another level of mental illness. Still not playing your shit p2w MMO, moron.
That's all you can resort to saying because you know you can't actually refute anything properly.
What is there to refute, moron? The game is p2w, there's nothing more to it. Why do I give a frick what else they sell or do not sell in a cash shop if it's already p2w to begin with? You morons literally pay a subscription fee kek, so in a way you're even more moronic than the average asiatic grinder shill. Actual mental illness. At least the asiatic grinders will admit their games sell advantages to whales. Deranged troony.
Who are you trying to impress?
Pay to win is pay to win, dude, trying to create special qualifications for it is just pathetic.
What are you talking about? Blizzard doesn't tell you to buy raid carries when you trade your tokens for gold. Sure, you CAN pay for faster progress over other players, but the devs don't tell you to do that so it's not exactly pay to win. Not sure what you're getting at. Yeah you can buy raid carries with gold you paid for through the token system and get the best gear in the game, but that doesn't make it pay to win. It would be pay to win if there were notifications constantly reminding you to buy wow tokens so you can get the best gear in the game but again, they don't do that. It's a community thing.
>CC is non-existen
I still remember the "CC" crowd when they complained about Wrath dungeons being shit-easy and didn't require any CC. The same fricking crowd complained about the difficulty of the pre-nerf Cata dungeons where you needed CC.
My only complaint about pre-nerf Cata dungeons was that my groups didn't understand the healers didn't have infinite mana any more. Also I hated that my priest went from having a spellbook full of useful spells to just spamming Heal over and over unless I wanted to run out of mana in 2 seconds flat.
not enough dev time goes into making short, cute races cuter
In 200X the majority of free online games were MMOs. They were big because they were free and downloadable in a time when physical media was the norm.
Solo players need content too. It turns into a problem when players can solo the group content (and grief actual groups) or they are being forced into groups of random players via a partyfinder.
wow players are really sitting here pretending wow tokens aren't pay to win kek
I play WoW and I love how deranged your average wow player is
>My friend and I doing M+
>exclusively play +18 keys, for comfy experience
>We ding the KSH achievement
>Some guild mate asks me if we aim to push further
>"No, we just stay at +18, because there is absolutely no reason to go beyond that."
He literally couldn't compute my statement.
Wowtrannies will pretend this does not exist
MMOs without full-loot PvP aren't worth playing.
>keeps bots in check.
>can't buy permanent power
>players never run out of content
>MMOs without full-loot PvP
we get it, you're in chris metzen's maze
How's Mortal Online 2 doing these days?
10 gorillion players clearly he has proven his point.
I had games like Eve or Albion in mind.
>buying the best gear in the game with irl money isn't p2w because... it's just not okay!
The absolute logic of blizzkeks
lol there were never any übermensch playing mmos, what a delusional image
I miss 2002 everquest. I was only 13 when I played and I am have been chasing that same high for the last 21 years bros
MMO's are most fun at launch/new Expacs. No meta toxic bullshit, just bois exploring and discovering content
i agree. the funnest time i had in mmos in recent history was the first 2-3 weeks of dragonflight. the best gear came from world quests and other open world sources. was fantastic
Yeah, the first two weeks of Season of Discovery were great. Then all the usual shit caught up with it.
"DPS" as a role was a mistake. Giving people a brainless option to pick instead of performing an actual function like CC was a mistake.
DPS would be ok if there were actually DPS checks worth a damn
They were doomed from their creation, because most people are moronic pussies so that's what they have to cater to. Good MMOs fail.
>Hurr good old EQ days
Nothing stops you from playing P99
MMOs were doomed the moment Blizzard took the EQ raidtroon route and gave Kaplan creative control
They could have been saved if they had gone the PvP route
Raids ruined everything
normalgays and discuck happened.
thank you tim buckley
mmos were never good they were always a genre of games for glorified cattle
this fight between modern and classic mmogays is literally just like watching two chimps fight over who is most moronic
For me, it's Wurm Online
Based sandbox chad. For me, it's Haven&Hearth.
I want an MMO with actual character / enemy collision + AI enhancements.
Imagine having to physically body block things from trying to break through and get at casters and healers.
Or, an AI that learns from your party composition and tactics and gets better every fight.
>Collision
Warhammer. It did make tanks very fun but has its downsides
>AI
Stupid. That's the entire point of MMOs, you have players which fill the role of unpredictable encounters.
never happening.
you think you want smart enemies that adapt to you but studies have shown time and time again that players get frustrated because players refuse to adapt to situations.
they want to do one thing repeatedly instead of changing up how they play.
enemies that are smart and can actually challenge the player are counter to that playstyle and philosophy. when a player gets outsmarted by ai they loose interest in the game and so no one ever does enemies that adapt to players.
at most ai will be clever like interrupting certain casts or putting a cc on on a healer but those things are predictable and easy to counteract.
AI should only be used for NPC's. So we can finally marry them
sega made pso2 e4 and everything went downhill from there
lvl 5 dungeon in mmorpg that came out in 1999.
Good luck clearing that with a bunch of random groupfinder morons who just bought a level boost. There is a reason why everything is a corridor dungeon now.
>Good luck clearing that with a bunch of random groupfinder morons who just bought a level boost. There is a reason why everything is a corridor dungeon now.
I solo farmed that dungeon back in the day as a 13 year old bro. i could go back there now and still know it like the back of my hand. the mobs also werent hard. but old school mmorpg autism just hits different.
pic related is the travel system map for Anarchy Online, an mmorpg from 2001. i still have these routs memorized 24 years later.
I dont want to poopsock. I dont want to join a discord clique. I dont want to compete in a rat race for dps. I dont want to be forced to play on a schedule. I dont want to be on "probation" before Im allowed loot. I dont want to participate in social hierarchy withing the guild in order the gain better loot
I want to adventure and talk to random people I meet in the wild
>I dont want to be forced to play on a schedule
This is one of the biggest pain points of MMO's.
Discord is just voicechat which MMOs still don't have. Nobody wants to stand still and type.
wow had voice chat since forever. Nobody uses it because players were conditioned to use third party programs
Just play m+
>i want to join a hardcore competitive guild that plays around my schedule
>I will only contribute when I feel like it
>I'm here for the benefits
>Discord? No, thanks. Type it out for me when I come online
>MMOs then
>Bring me 25 bear asses
>Drop rate 10 % chance per bear
It was always shit.
>
What happened to MMOs?(OP)
>>MMOs then
me 25 bear asses
>>Drop rate 10 % chance per bear
my first mmorpg, asheron's call, from 1999, didnt have quests like that.
it had quests more like:
oh hi, you are now level 5? well here is a vague note you can buy in the inn of one town out of 34 that gives you 10+ pages of vague directions to a half dozen noobie dungeons you can go to to possibly get keys to unlock the dungeon of the sword of lost light that is 20 mile run out into the desert pass level 100+ mobs. also each of those 6 noobie dungeons has a series of locked doors and hidden keys with some keys locked behind other noobie quests or hidden in other dungeons/outside the dungeons. this quest took me months to do.
wow now that sounds like an adventure
mmos are not fun. People only play them for dopamine rush over getting numbers up. The reason why this genre attract so many autistic sweatlord is exactly because its not fun. They minmax specifically to minimize the risk of failure because the gameplay itself is not enjoyable. If your group gets stuck on a boss or disbands, you just wasted your time. You just dont have fun simply killing mobs like say vermintide.
Until this this core issue is solved the genre will never stop stagnating
>mmos are not fun
opinion discarded.
you do not find mmos fun
that doesn't mean everyone else feels the same.
i personally fricking love MMOs, and have loved MMOs since I started playing UO in 99. I don't care about dopamine hits over numbers going up, because I'm fully engrossed in these massive living virtual worlds full of weird shit to explore and interact with.
you have the mindset of the very same minmaxing dopamine addicted frickwits that you are admonishing in your post, and what's worse is you don't even realize it.
maybe I shouldve specified "modern mmos". I am a wowbab after all and instanced fast paced content is how I like it. I tried playing runescape once and it bored me to tears. I just dont understand why mmo devs try to seperate the game into absolutely mind numbing solo leveling experience and autistic minmax endgame.
I believe the crux of the issue is this wierd obsession with competitive gaming mmoshit has, but a "competitve rpg" is literally an oxymoron, since the genre is fundamentally based on class disparity. Naturally devs with such fricked mindset cannot produce fun content
The point of pre 2004 MMOs was to create a game for people who wanted to work together, be a part of a community, take on immense challenges, and most of all enjoy the journey over the reward. Some focused on story, some on PVP, and others on PVE, but in the end they all embraced the idea of people having to work together to achieve their goals and the bonds you form during that work being the real reward.
The crux of todays issue is MMOs, or rather "MMOs", being designed to pull in and cater to people like yourself, people who want quick easy get in get out content. It's cool that you like that, that isn't the issue, but the result is that the old style of MMO games has been completely dropped due to this new style of MMO, as shown by WoWs massive success, catering to the casual market and the general public overall. Early MMO titles were designed for a specific slice of the gaming populace while modern ones are designed to draw EVERYONE in.
>this wierd obsession with competitive gaming mmoshit has
Funnily enough the old MMOs actually were more competitive than todays so that's clearly not the reason why todays games suck.
>being designed to pull in and cater to people like yourself
well they are doing a shit job because I dont like any of modern mmos. I am perfectly fine with spending hundreds hours grinding but only if the gameplay is fun. I also strongly advocate that leveling should provide players with mechanical challenge, which some can be circumvented with coop. Gameplay in wow/xiv/eso/gw2 for me just feels like doing busywork. I hate how many hoops you have to jump through just to play non braindead content. The reward system in these games is completely fricked too. You do hard content and your reward is same content but harder? The frick is that shit
people traded player to player interaction for wikis, meta builds, and convenience
Every MMO can be fixed with non-optional full loot PvP.
Survival games fill that niche. Full loot PVP MMOs always have been and always will be awful. UO included.
It filters themepark players that are known for ruining every MMO they touch. Eve and Albion are doing fine because of it.
i got into mmorpgs for the exploration and "living worlds" that had ongoing stories where the world would go through drastic changes. some mmorpgs had "seasons" like winter, some had cities blow up, some had stories arcs 3+ years long.
i did NOT play mmorpgs to grind "EnD GaMe CoNtEnT". I hate the concept of EnD GaMe CoNtEnT as introduced by EQ and popularized by WOW. my favorite mmorpg asheron's call had a CONTENT UPDATE every MONTH. for 10+ years. EVERY MONTH = new content.
i hate weekly/daily raids/dungeon "running", i hate faction/rep grinds, i hate achievements.
give me big long drawn out obtuse quests that take months to tell and play through that i really only have to do once - unless im going back through to help someone else with it. i dont want to run the same dungeon 10 times a night. i dont want to do the same 1-3 raids every week for months. i dont want to a random assortment of a handful of daily "quests" i have done 1000 times every day.
mmorpgs killed themselves with the skinner box approach.
mmorpgs should be about providing living/changing fantasy worlds to explore and then meet/interact with other real people in through the prism of that fantasy world.
mmorpgs should not be like 'jobs' with chores to do.
I'm probably going to try out AoC, TL and maybe the Riot MMO before going full doomer on MMOs. We had this exact stage happen with fighting games before the modern renaissance kicked off and lot of great games came out. it was a dark time back when we only had TTT2 and SFV with the only hope being MvC Infinite
Age of Conan was/could have been alright but suffered from "released too early, nice polished start but unfinished end game(little/no content for lvl 50-80) that gave it a bad launch that killed its funding to ever get finished. one of its big draws, seige warfare, took years to get out and was/is trash.
but its world exploration - that was finished and got added to over the years - is great. its combat system is fun/different. its worth trying out. you will know by the time you leave the starting pirate island by around lvl 20ish whether you want to keep playing or not. its a game i go back to from time to time. but its "unfinished" even now and when/if you get to end game you will see. but LOTS of content to explore.
by AoC I meant ashes of creation
None of these games will release this decade. The Riot MMO won't even get announced until then.
Riot has the best chance, the video game industry is full of corporate espionage and i doubt the sudden worldsoul saga push from Blizzard is a coincidence.
Maybe, lets not forget Valorant was released a few months after its official announcement.
Everything Riot has made has been a cheap chinese knockoff of another popular game, I wouldn't expect them to do anything else than copy WoW and XIV (maybe a little kmmo shit sprinkled in) in the most boring way possible. Whatever the game will be, if it even exists at all, it won't be a return to MMO form and instead it'll dig the hole deeper.
I don't think it'll be soulless korean p2w, and it's coming from a company with tons of experience in deal with salty fanbases, so I expect a strong PvP showing.
None of their titles have strong PVP, it's all copies of other games. If they ever release their MMO it'll only make things worse.
The last time Riot mentioned the MMO on their own websites was in 2019. They haven't given up completely yet because interviews on some 3rd party youtube channel prove a small team is still working on it. They can pull the plug anytime and nobody would notice.
Considering what's happened to Riot in recent years, I have no real hope in their MMO or any of their upcoming big-name game projects at all really.
They're unironically better off as an animation & music studio at this point; it's the only thing they're truly good yet. As others have said, all of their games are just cheaply-made, tacked-on, low-effort knockoffs of dead trends.
what do you mean? They are peaking each year. Valorant killd cs TWICE now. Lol killed dota to the point dota started copying them and still is in a massive decline. The series won every price there is too. Weird cope. The fighter is destined to succeed too. The codev literally owns EVO.
very high chance i kill myself once osrs shuts down
I just want to say that Star Wars Galaxies was 20 years ahead of it's time and it's a shame it was treated so poorly.
Solo and group content can co-exist. What do you do when your friends aren't available but you still want to play? Not everyone has a full group of friends to play with.
Everquest pre velious and vanilla wow truly had some impressive massive dungeon design
mmos then were unironically easier. Zoomers are moronic. Wow classic vs retail is prove
Zoomers play mobas, extraction shooters and battle royale. Not mmos
I play exactly none of those.
t. zoomer
I'm a zoom zoom too and those are the only genres that my friends like to play. And also the binding of isaac for some reason the game looks really stupid to me
BoI is not so bad from what i've seen, it's definitely a flash game and while stuff like hades has it beat nowadays (lol roguelike trends) it's still pretty good for a 2011 flash game. Otherwise, I really wish BR didn't rob me of Titanfall 3.
Are you from 2018?
Zoomer here, my most played games are Lord of the Rings Online, pre-Cata WoW, Dwarf Fortress and Civilization 5
Shit taste for a shit generation
>mmos then were unironically easier. Zoomers are moronic. Wow classic vs retail is prove
just because they add arbitrarily more convoluted higher hp versions of all their 'end game content' doesnt mean its better/harder/etc. nuwow is cancer. doing the same dungeons/raids over and over with higher hp mobs is cancer game design. its not good.
>they add arbitrarily more convoluted higher hp versions of all their 'end game content' doesnt mean its better/harder/etc
Its not arbitrary, its there as a challenge and yes it does objectively make it harder, which is also better for people with IQs above 60 you subhuman brazilian since there is actually something to do at endgame that wont bore you to tears
>doing the same dungeons/raids over and over
You dont get to complain about grinding shit in a thread jerking off old MMOs gay, the genre has always been repetitive and grindy
>Its not arbitrary
damage sponge bosses are absolutely arbitrary
No, its not moron
If a boss doesnt damage check you then you just bring infinite healers and tanks
if a boss dies in 30 seconds you just cut healers and burst it down
>No, its not moron
yeah, it is, homosexual
more health does not equal harder boss no matter how many times you repeat it.
>More health
>Longer fight
>Have to maintain your skills/spells/mana/whatever over a longer period of time
>not harder
stop posting moron
What are you, a scrub? Simply dealing with more HP doesn't require you to change your strategy. You just need to do your skill rotation a few extra times.
You were asked to stop posting, please comply and save us a few braincells lil zoom zoom. Your league queue is about to pop anyway.
I accept your concession
>anon is so mind broken that he bites someone else's bait
god damn that's funny
Yes it does you stupid Black person
Longer the fight goes on the more chances for failure you have
Longer the fight goes on the more mana matters
Longer fights prevent bursty cheese strats
retail wow is mechanically harder than vanilla. this isnt even a debate lol. individual trash packs in m+ have more mechanics than all of molten core
>a decade and a half of ezmode is mechanically hard
can you speak without using memes? i have no idea what the hell either of you are saying
anyone who thinks classic raids are as hard as retails mythic raids is moronic
>"mY gUILd Can'T beAt RAids, CaN u MaKe IT 10 MaN aNd eAsY inSTeaD?"
>zoomers call this shit hard because they grew up in it
Retail raiding is objectively magnitudes harder you moronic geriatric
They never made it easier, molten chore is the difficulty floor in WoW
i'll concede that new mmos are technically harder, but not in a good way.
I don't consider the hyper autistic difficulty modes of liner raids and dungeons to be particularly compelling gameplay.
>b-but my favourite MMO was good (20+ years ago)
I don't care about games that you can't play anymore. If it was so great, why is it dead?
ooops looks like the coffer you need is in the northwest part of the dungeon.
Doesn't look too far away, just a quick run to the other dungeon entrance 🙂
ah yes, the teleport-mea quest
soul, at least you can check on lumberjack when you get there
>Walks across one of the random bone pits on the floor
i loved this one
i'm so glad my LS mate helped my stupid ass climb this mountain
looks like a line rider map
It's funny to look at it that way but it was a neat concept ingame. There were so many places that you could easily slip off and the forced drop downs were terrifying because of it.
I don't remember the quest (I think it was some AF quest) but I spent HOURS looking in Davoi for an invisible item on the ground. Miserable
never played eq that much but i love to watch some 2 hours long walktroughs of these massive zones. maybe it's because of the old 90s/early 00s low quality textures
>decide to play OSRS lately randomly since I needed something mindless to grind while doing something else
>grand exchange fricks up the game so much that it's more like the original experience when you're locked to never interact with anyone else
It's absurd reading the wiki, how its suggested solution for levelling every skill literally just sit sit in the GE and buy/sell while crafting.
It's easy bro you just slide down the hill you can't miss it.
>misses it and has to spend 40 minutes walking up the mountain again
I guess I just got super unlucky back in the day, but I always needed help and such trying to play WoW and I would just called a noob homosexual all the time. Any time I wanted to do a low level dungeon, I never found people to do it with, just high levels looking for a quick gold and disenchant mats to steam roll them for me.
WoW is the game on the right, not the left, so what you experienced wasn't unlucky but rather par for the course.
>What happened to MMOs?
unironically. israelites!
They became normified, and a sizable number od old school poayers went along with it because its hard to get a party together often enough to justify the subscription when all your friends have jobs.
Old school MMOs, the good ones, were a golden age we simply wont get back. Its all incredibly niche indie mmos from here on.
they died after EverQuest 1. WoW just ripped off EQ and shat out some cartoony shit. The dead of EQ was the death of the MMO.
star wars galaxies was ok for a while before the holocron patch
i was talking in general chat on wow classic and some dude asked if i dont have friends. this was such an eye opener to me. MMOs truly are dead. they arent special worlds to adventure in anymore and make friends its just second monitor content to keep 30 year old occupied
Somehow, FFXIV is the loneliest fricking game I've ever played, moreso than singleplayer games.
yeah i had the same experience. i had great fun with the game dont get me wrong it has amazing music. but you dont really have to do anything with anyone. i got to max level in FF14 and later tried wow classic and it kinda amazed me how much more you are encouraged to do stuff with a buddy
I've played it for 4 years and made zero friends. I've come to the conclusion that it's essentially Seattle: The Videogame.
The userbase is friendly sure, but there's a gigantic divide between everyone that prevents friendships from being formed, especially if there's cliques already made. It's just like the Seattle Freeze. Amicable, but distant people. I made more friends in fricking Deep Rock Galactic in a single day.
Self inflicted. There are tons of ways to make friends if you try.
its not self inflicted lmao. ff14 just isnt set up in anyway to encourage players to engage with each other
measuring friendship in giving away your login info lol
Free companies
Linkshells
Treasure map parties
In game Social Events
Party Finder Parties
I've made friends from all of these
yeah but you are a troony though and you poz negholes
i don't think his point was that you can't do social things in xiv, rather that the game never pushes you to do so. a well-designed social engagement system would incentivize group activities and make those incentives clear to players up front. it's not just about making social systems available, but incentivizing them and making sure players understand why they'd want to engage with those systems.
When I was playing it there was no recruitment for Free Companies or Linkshells going on, unlike any other MMO I've played where it was easy to get into one.
>Free companies
All have cliques. I was in multiple and we all ignored new people, honestly. I left all of them because it always devolved into some homosexual or two who wouldn't stop cheating on his girlfriend/boyfriend and starting drama.
>Linkshells
Dead. Always.
>Treasure Map Parties
You do the maps and leave. Next.
>In-game Social Events
Already have cliques. They don't want you.
>Party Finder Parties
See Treasure Maps.
It's great that you're an exception, but for the vast majority of people, these don't work. If anyone here actually wants to make decent friends, you should play a community dedicated around a craft, like potmaking, art, etc. I made tons of friends in a birdwatching forum and frequently go hiking with them. Or could you try and meet people in a sick game like FF14. Your choice.
So, self inflicted
Sure, you can think that. Enjoy your fake friends. I won.
they are literal discord trannies dude modern MMOs were made for them. they love it.
Do you trust any of your friends with your steam account info?
do you like hamburgers ?
It was a fun time anon, playing games with people you truly enjoyed being around. I'm sorry you and many others missed out on it.
its funny how you came to that conclusion
Your general attitude, ignorance, and immature posting style tells the whole story.
are you like 33?
troony hands typed this watch out
Really just proving everyone right.
40????
Hardly self-inflicted, considering I have an easier time making friends in every other online game and even in real life. FFXIV is just a completely atomized "community".
>I've come to the conclusion that it's essentially Seattle: The Videogame.
AhahahahahahahaHA!
God I need to move. I fricking hate it here. Seattlites will all tell you you’re a nutjob for thinking this too
The phenomenon even has its own wikipedia article lmao. Is it really that bad? Surely meeting people at concerts, community events/clubs is possible.
It’s possible but difficult. A lot of people around here will look at you like you’re crazy if you try to talk to them, regardless of the setting you’re in. I say this as someone who is obviously a normal well-groomed person and not a stinky homeless guy.
Unironically I'm considering just playing that CoH pserver or Lotro or DDO since I have tons of free content packs they gave away for those two games. Modern MMOs are in stasis right now, what do you even have to look forward to? Blue Protocol? Throne and Liberty? What a joke.
WoW killed the genre, just like every other genre Blizzard touched.
Monster Hunter should allow for bigger lobbies in their new entry. Like 30 hunters running around starting quests and talking shit would be nice
Mabinogi was the last social MMO. I met my ex-girlfriend on there. I had it all.
It's put to bed now.
They are remaking it in UE5
I wish some shitty old MMO would get popular so the "le heckin wholesome and valid and friendly" buttholes wouldn't use Dark Souls as a refuge and could go there instead. No wonder their games died, they are literally human garbage.
how do i make racist nazi neet friends that are 25 years or older?
gay discords about gaming and anime
>play FF XIV
>want to be left alone
>everyone trying to recruit me
>eventually join an FC
>they keep talking to me
My guess is that you guys are used to forced interactions from how the old games were designed and can't actually talk to people without having the devs force them to talk to you. Because holy hell, I'm trying to play it as a single player game and everyone keeps talking to me.
how old are you ?
I'm an oldgay but I fricking hate old MMOs, shit like UO and Everquest and the like. I'm only playing FF XIV for the robust campaign and story. Normally I'd never touch an MMO with a tennfoot pole. I won't even play XI because it's an Everquest wannabe.
XI > xiv.
I don't really care, I have no attachment to MMO infighting and I'd rather quit gaming alltogether than ever play XI. All those old MMOs are the same to me, annoying and unfun mechanics designed to pad the game out so your sub lasts longer.
thanks for the info
>make meme thread about something i have a passing interest in
>notice it's dying and leave
>check back on Ganker hours later
>it's still up
FFXI vs. FFXIV
FFXI:
>Requires encyclopedic knowledge of the game's mechanics, classes, maps, monsters, etc.
>Just throws you into the world with little to no tutorials, you have to navigate a complex menu system and have to actually read text in order to understand what's going on.
>At advanced levels of play, you might need to even create your own scripts for addons such as gearswap
>The game is entirely designed around gear, upgrading said gear, getting the best gear in slot but also you need to carry around many different types of gear suited for whatever particular situation your character is doing, for example healing magic might have a completely different set of gear than enfeebling or elemental magic, have to swap between gear during combat to make full effect of this gear
>Doesn't hold your hand at all, if you get a quest you're told to go talk to someone but not guided to the destination in any way, you must use the maps and figure out for yourself where your destination is and how to get there
>Brutal leveling and endgame system that absolutely filters the frick out of any casual that managed to make it far enough in the game
>Requires you play the game as a literal full time job in order to accomplish anything of real importance
>Designed for actual fans of Final Fantasy
>crafting has so much depth it could practically be a game in itself, and requires a ton of time, investment and skill to become a master crafter.
FFXIV:
>A literal themepark MMO
>The entire game is designed around holding your hand
>Almost anyone can beat the highest level content, almost anyone can unlock an ultimate weapon
>gear is much less important in this game
>crafting feels pointless
>Much less time commitment to achieve anything important in the game
>Designed for trannies and other mentally ill autistic freaks / """women"""
you play the game as a literal full time job in order to accomplish anything of real importance
Hey, thanks for reminding everyone why classic MMOs died.
Are there still XI servers up?
Yeah, retail still exists and private servers have been around forever. Private ones only contain the base game and first two expansions for the most part.
There's plenty including private servers. I don't play anymore but last time I played retail a few years ago Odin was still pretty active. Granted there's like 2 heavily populated servers in XI still, and the rest have smaller populations of mostly Japanese players.
There's retail, where they added QOL changes and getting to end game will mostly be single player with Trust NPCs
Then there are private servers like Eden and Horizon that only cover base game and some expansions like
said
This is a dumb post but the Adoulin zones were amazing.
It sucks that FFXI will never get another expansion, but Aldouin was a pretty great end expansion with some great areas. At least it still has got content updates the last few years. I haven't played in a while though.
I'm glad the servers are still up but they put it on official maintenance mode last year so it's probably over now.
I'm just waiting for the day I hear that it's officially getting shut down so I can log in one last time and just roam around the world before it's gone forever.
I mean honestly, FFXI died to me a long time ago. All the friends I knew that played have long since moved on, and they were the real reason I kept playing for many years.
I'm still disappointed they haven't done something with the setting, it feels like they've wanted the game to disappear for a long time for whatever reason.
>make sure to visit the wiki
I have to confess, this is annoying about modern games
Nothing, they were always glorified chat rooms/social experiences.
The modern internet is no longer in a state to make that fun anymore, so modern mmo focus more on single player and collectathon content to maintain player base.
In short devs now have to actually work to entertain you instead of just expecting you to entertain your self by fricking around/with randos but at the same time they're now cutting off all the empty frick around space cause their priorities and resources are else where
I'm quitting xiv and starting xi.
Frick this garbage theme park mentally ill paradise of a game.
Devs learned that all the areas outside of quest zones are a waste of effort and money and they could make corridors for much cheaper and earn same amounts of money from addicted gamers.
the modern mmo player doesnt want to play mmos. they are addicted and just want the rewards. if there was an option to skip all gameplay and collect the rewards, the majority of mmo players would take that option. the vast majority of complaints about mmos can be boiled down to "its too hard to get the rewards"
>map/quests are too complicated
>leveling takes to long
>rotation is too complicated
>bosses are too hard
>grouping up with other players is too hard
>game is too time consuming
>grinding sucks
nobody actually enjoys mmos. they dont enjoy the moment to moment gameplay. they are only playing for a future reward
>Be a filthy gaijin playing DQX and pre-NGS PSO2
>Don't have to worry about rushing to endgame
>Play "fotm KMMO" or "streamer MMO by the intern who worked on DAoC/SWG/GW1"
>Only feel interested in getting to endgame
Unironically be the BR you always talked shit about
i know you guys are in here. queue for Deltascape 3 on crystal please
ty guys
FFXI absolutely filtered me because of that terrible combat system and i played EQ and dark age of camelot
I think the #1 filter for people casually interested in XI is the UI and controls. I have to use controller
MMOs have always been a powder keg when it came to community, all the different groups from shitters to sweats to RPers to griefers, all in the same game, but not a real community. The second the MMO doesn't force them together kicking and screaming, the community will segregate into their own little actual communities.
Let's be real, MMO private servers are your last hope for a good MMO experience. What private servers are you playing on bros?
Horizon, though it's been a minute since I last logged on
nah, private servers are each a microcosm of the same modern problems
Wrong, private servers are comfy and your last hope for a real community feeling, and to play superior old MMOs with people who aren't just NPCs.
they're really not. they all still have the same modern cliques and dedicated homosexuals who make the game shit for everyone else. only difference is it's an older version of a game that isn't completely dead. even then you'd wish it were
you're all wrong. people playing on private servers of old mmos are thankful to even have a server to play on, and in my experience, it's very comfy and a good way to make lasting friends with similar interests. you all sound like such unfun homosexuals.
sorry anon, i'm not wrong. i'm glad you're enjoying yourself
What's wrong with being wrong anon? When's the last time you played on a private server?
november 2023.
>people playing on private servers of old mmos are thankful to even have a server to play on
That is not incongruous with my point.
>in my experience, it's very comfy and a good way to make lasting friends with similar interests.
Similarly, this is not incongruous with my point.
I stated that the exact same problems with MMO communities are found on Private Servers, and there are innumerable insufferable people on Private Servers, as well as cliquish Forum-tier social barriers needed to be crossed before you can interact with /anybody/, much less being among the inner circle of a new group. Joining guilds that are your particular ideal in terms of gameplay is the best way to enjoy an MMO, but that can be done on Retail servers just as much as Private Servers, and if your only argument is "this community couldn't exist because otherwise the game wouldn't exist for them to play!", that's completely irrelevant to the discussion.
all this. the only way to make MMOs good again is to forcefully encapsulate them between the years 1999 and 2004
What the hell are these made up "barriers" bro just join the discord and start chatting people up, join a guild ingame, what the hell are you talking about, barriers? what? Have you ever considered nobody wants to interact with you because you come across as a massive homosexual the moment you open your mouth to speak?
thank you for proving that anon's point
Pretty sure that anon proved that he is a homosexual and nothing else, but ok
no, really, thank you for proving his point. discord and other social media like it are the reason MMOs are so shit now
You think you can just get around it? Why are you so adverse to it? It's really not a big deal at all?
I'm not sure if you don't know what I'm talking about, or if you're just being obtuse on purpose. I literally stated in my post that you can join a guild in or outside of a private server, and if it's your style, you will have fun in both groups. The only difference is that in a private server, the entire community is already set in stone because the ~100 active players all know each other. You can't socially maneuver the way you would in an actually active MMO, because one infraction will be noted community-wide almost instantly, and you might not even know what counts as an infraction until you've spent a notable amount of time just consuming their culture.
>~100 active players all know each other
not true, new people join all the time.
>You can't socially maneuver the way you would in an actually active MMO, because one infraction will be noted community-wide almost instantly
the answer is simple, just don't be a homosexual, you are incapable of that I know.
>not true, new people join all the time.
What game are you playing where this is true?
>the answer is simple, just don't be a homosexual, you are incapable of that I know.
This isn't really an argument, but you're not trying to make one either. I have plenty of MMO friends on FFXIV, PSO2, GW2, and a bunch of corpses of guilds and tons of memories on Luna Online, Eden Eternal, Trickster Online, Ragnarok Online, etc. It's easy to make friends, but when you have too small of a circle to appeal to (because all PServers are microscopic communities compared to an actually active MMO), your opportunities to socialize are limited. If you can make it work, that's fantastic, but the notion that a PServer is the "ideal" way to enjoy an MMO in any capacity is an outright falsehood.
This has been my experience with a WoW Burning Crusade private server lol such stereotypical terminally-online Discord Black folk who vaguepost and try to smear your nose in innocent mistakes players make months down the road like they got a list of grudges
In truth, Discord as a third party requirement to play any games with a community has probably been the third largest blight upon the MMO industry (right behind wikis and dataminers), and the fact that it inherently fragments communities and outright invites drama via adjacency means that it'll permanently exist to ruin the experience of meeting groups online.
out of game communication has been a thing since the very start. guild forums and chatrooms existed in years past. hell, my kingdom in Utopia had its own ICQ relay
out of game communication used to be supplemental instead of endemic.
Even if they existed, they were not outright mandatory as they are now. If you join a guild in any MMO today, you will be expected to also be in the Discord or some other social media to coordinate/discuss matters, as opposed to being talked to in-game to do so. If you joined in the past, it was something you'd do for those who wanted to talk with a messenger that was a bit stronger, but it wasn't an outright requirement.
All of these fricking things have existed since the beginning of MMOs. You can fricking blame it all on le evil technology all you want, but the people who play MMOs today are just fricking losers, and that's why they're shit.
There is no world where this is true. PServers will be populated by the same individuals who are the source of all of the problems in retail MMOs, and until there is a rash of Private Server content expansions and/or additive/event content that gives a reason to actually play them instead of just the retail experience, there is no difference in games other than the lack of a sub or lack of official moderation. The only hope for a good MMO experience is joining a Guild that is social, active, and plays precisely the way you want to play, whether that involves being a sweatlord, a casual RPer, or just someone who plays content at a semi-decent competency to completion.
>"vanilla" wow
warmane onyxia
>eq
p99
>swg
legends
Private servers are in no way shape or form a good MMO experience, they are inhabited by people who want to treat old MMOs with the same esports/min max/solo approach they take to modern games. It's disappointing to see so many people completely miss the point of these old titles and base their gameplay on ego inflation instead of having a comfy time making friends.
at least in wow. pserver players are usually way more casual and social than retail/classic wow min-maxers pve spergs
I wish we got more Wildstars and Mortal Onlines, it's funny to watch them bomb.
Come home, millennial man
i like runescape but it's still ruined by modern audiences
It's objectively a fricking dogshit game, it barely counts as a game at all, it was only ever fun because of the social interaction which today's runescape community legitimately fricking hates, to the point that there are people who turn off chat when they go to wintertodt and fishing trawler, as if the moronic conversations people have there are a bad thing, and not the only thing that can keep a normal person barely sane when they're grinding those horrible fricking minigames.
yeah its a shame what happend to runescape. i used to play it as a kid in 2005/2009 and its depressing how dead the world is
Runescape is a really good example on how metagaming efficiency can ruin a game in the long run. I'm more interested in questing over getting 99 in everything, at least until everything got changed.
this is what a lot of people fail to understand about most MMOs. at their core they are glorified chatrooms with myriad mini games to idly play while chatting. runescape before runescape 3 is probably the chief example of this.
by the way, <>< lvl?
i think once people started integrating third party software to chat to their guild mates outside of voice chat during raiding it became a really big deal. you took the social aspect of an MMO and transplanted a significant portion of it somewhere else
>>goth culture
holy shit kys
I MISS RIFT
I MISS RIFT
I MISS RIFT
I MISS RIFT
I MISS RIFT
I MISS RIFT
The soul system was pretty fun. quite a few MMO's from around that time had good ideas but WoW was still in a decent state at that point and people still had faith in Blizzard. I think if an MMO came out today that took all of those ideas it could do pretty well.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with using discord to communicate outside of the game.
have a nice day troony
have a nice day autist, learn to communicate with people like a normal person.
any guild you're in will give you an invite, it's a very easy requirement, not difficult at all. what's the issue here exactly?
i dont communicate with trannies.
(unless youre a shemale with a big wiener????)
the fact that it's a requirement, no matter how easy, is a fundamental issue. whatever happens in game should stay in game, drama included
>whatever happens in game should stay in game
no?
how am I gonna plan events or raids?
how am I going to talk shit with my friends?
I can't get over how much of a lonely friendless nerd you sound like lmao.
The fact that you physically cannot conceive of doing that in-game is evidence you have no idea how MMOs worked pre-Discord.
It's typical newbie revisionism.
Your moron brain can't fill in the gaps that I do infact speak ingame but also use discord for planning and supplemental shittalking with friends?
You could have done all of that in-game prior to when Discord superceded everything else.
but i don't have time anymore :/
you are the total troony death of mmos
Seethe Black person
dont use the N word please
There isn't, but there is absolutely a problem when your requirement to engage with the game's community is contingent entirely on you being invited to a Discord server.
newbies arguing with newbies
ive been here since 2008. how long have you been here :^)
ywnba oldgay
when did you join Ganker?
2009
if you care about being an oldgay, you arent one. you are an eternal newbie
lol nice lie be honest youre here since what 2014? at best
Nice try groomer
>removal of ARR
buddy this is the original version, XIV homosexuals edited it because they can't come up with shit without stealing it from better games
668519980
>dude troony!!
or
>dude autist if you don't like discord(TM)!
this newbie fools nobody
you do it in game, you loser
you sound like a chad. can i have ur babies
damn he's too cool
talking ingame, what a novel concept
no