Because the exaggeration was simply fricking up proportions or the limitations of the Small Indie Company doing the work, not market-researched formulaic slop.
Do not ask for coherent thought from the geriatric millenial. They are blinded by nostalgia and their brain has melted to the hair product they've used.
[...] >generic >formulaic
But the main criticism you guys level at these models if that they're a betrayal of the formula.
[...] >le slop
Alright, point to what you think these guys are copying. Do note you will be laughed at if you post a nerf gun, since there’s zero percent the “formulaic market research slop” told them people would want to buy marines with literal nerf guns.
Oldhammer neckbeards are unsalvagable. There's practically no point in giving them any attention outside of their containment thread because they will never change their opinion and cannot be reasoned with. They are the Warhammer embodiment of "They changed it, so it sucks!" Every time I think about responding to them about how ridiculous they sound, I stop myself because I'd just be feeding their swollen egos. They're the kind of people who assume that they've won the argument despite having said nothing other than "my opinion is right and yours is wrong, I will not elaborate beyond this." It's not a conversation you're having with them, they're the conversational equivalent of a brick wall.
As to the OP, the Desolation squad looks silly because they have what ought to be Ork rocket launchers. They're a little silly, yes, but frankly they're less offensive to me than Reivers are. >LE SPOOKY MASK MAN BATTLESHOCK ALL YOONITZ
I hate Reivers (you do too), and I hate that they're what we get for "melee-oriented" Phobos units.
Actually a funny post to read since it's virtually identical how I feel the other way. I stopped trying to good faith engage with new warhammer fans years ago because no matter how elaborately I tried to explain my issue it always got reduced to "you just think new is bad!" and there comes a point when you just gotta realize that New Warhammer fans' personal identities are too tied up in an IP for it to ever register for them that there might be legitimate criticism at play. Provoking and b8ing and shitposting might be fun but actual attempts at conversation are a waste of time and effort.
2 months ago
Anonymous
[...]
[...]
Oldhammer neckbeards are unsalvagable. There's practically no point in giving them any attention outside of their containment thread because they will never change their opinion and cannot be reasoned with. They are the Warhammer embodiment of "They changed it, so it sucks!" Every time I think about responding to them about how ridiculous they sound, I stop myself because I'd just be feeding their swollen egos. They're the kind of people who assume that they've won the argument despite having said nothing other than "my opinion is right and yours is wrong, I will not elaborate beyond this." It's not a conversation you're having with them, they're the conversational equivalent of a brick wall.
As to the OP, the Desolation squad looks silly because they have what ought to be Ork rocket launchers. They're a little silly, yes, but frankly they're less offensive to me than Reivers are. >LE SPOOKY MASK MAN BATTLESHOCK ALL YOONITZ
I hate Reivers (you do too), and I hate that they're what we get for "melee-oriented" Phobos units.
Kek. You homosexuals sound like you're defending political positions in a charged environment and not the pulp writing behind plastic space men
2 months ago
Anonymous
Everything is political. And don't deny that the split among those autistic enough to talk about 40k on here aren't largely split along ideological lines because everything is political whether the normies think it or not (they don't. Normies passive consumers who will buy whatever is in front of them and go along with whoever wins. It's not that normies have good taste or bad taste. They have, quite literally, no taste). The fight between progress, change and decolonization of culture vs stagnation, traditionalism and reactionaries doesn't end at the ballot box.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Good troll, almost fell for it, "ballot box" is going too far though.
2 months ago
Anonymous
It's not a troll. The fact that you think that political act begins with and ends with a vote betrays your own ignorance. It's to drive home the initial point: everything is political. Especially entertainment.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, if you believe that your hecking vote matters, I can't do shit for you.
But I agree, everything is political.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Beauty is eternal and therefore art must be preserved. No amount of CAD and Blackmarines will ever stack up to the old handsculpts. I bet you paint Primaris marines in shifty, thick coat rainbow schemes for upvotes. Disgusting.
>But the main criticism you guys level at these models if that they're a betrayal of the formula.
Different anons, slightly different points.
My position in
Because the exaggeration was simply fricking up proportions or the limitations of the Small Indie Company doing the work, not market-researched formulaic slop.
is that the old style of exaggeration had no formula, it's just what the people involved happened to make inside the time and budget constraints. There was no management relentlessly boiling everything down for "The Wider Audience", there was no on-high bible of designs that all artwork must fit within, there was only throwing over-the-top nonsense at the wall and hurrying to get models to molds.
The point
It was a genuine stylistic choice that characterized the tone of the game and setting. It also didn't look like generic slop.
makes is the one you refer to, with the assumption that the old style was deliberate and coherent (it wasn't, hence the Chapter House shitshow) and consequently the change is a "betrayal" of the roots instead of the natural tendency of an IP to become more consistent for brand value.
Because the exaggeration was simply fricking up proportions or the limitations of the Small Indie Company doing the work, not market-researched formulaic slop.
>le slop
Alright, point to what you think these guys are copying. Do note you will be laughed at if you post a nerf gun, since there’s zero percent the “formulaic market research slop” told them people would want to buy marines with literal nerf guns.
For old models, and I mean old ones, they have the advantage of being hand sculpted and being translations of the early game concepts as they were being hashed out so there's genuine artistry involved in their creation. It's like seeing a physical artstyle so even when a model has some wonky anatomy or silliness in the sculpting (like the classic Nagash face) I can still look at it and admire that someone had to sit down and make it all by hand first.
New models, especially ones made since the switch to full digital sculpting, don't get as much leeway with it. Yes, there's still artistry and skill involved in their creation but when the creator has so many ways to prevent flaws in the sculpt, has to adhere to tighter brand styling, and the setting itself wants to be taken more seriously now any exaggeration or silliness is seen as more of an error than an artistic quirk
I hate Space Marines, always have, always will. Will never collect them.
But those frick huge missile launchers are awesome. This guy one-handing a dual missile launcher? Pure Last Action Hero shit. Love him. When we get a Catachan refresh I hope we get this kind of stupid shit and no serious americanised shite.
[...]
[...]
You guys can't be fricking serious . This makes the terrible Saturday morning cartoons i watched in the 90s look like the mother fricking Godfather Part 1. >the formula
Yah Black the Warhammer formula is what we want, this is just lame toys section at Target formula.
Do not ask for coherent thought from the geriatric millenial. They are blinded by nostalgia and their brain has melted to the hair product they've used.
[...]
[...]
Oldhammer neckbeards are unsalvagable. There's practically no point in giving them any attention outside of their containment thread because they will never change their opinion and cannot be reasoned with. They are the Warhammer embodiment of "They changed it, so it sucks!" Every time I think about responding to them about how ridiculous they sound, I stop myself because I'd just be feeding their swollen egos. They're the kind of people who assume that they've won the argument despite having said nothing other than "my opinion is right and yours is wrong, I will not elaborate beyond this." It's not a conversation you're having with them, they're the conversational equivalent of a brick wall.
As to the OP, the Desolation squad looks silly because they have what ought to be Ork rocket launchers. They're a little silly, yes, but frankly they're less offensive to me than Reivers are. >LE SPOOKY MASK MAN BATTLESHOCK ALL YOONITZ
I hate Reivers (you do too), and I hate that they're what we get for "melee-oriented" Phobos units.
It feels like half the hate for new GW models is from people telling each other to hate it. /tg/ feels like Ganker now where it's "uncool" to like things so everyone just repeats that they hate everything. Nobody has actually been able to explain to me why the primaris kart is any different than the other goofy scout vehicles marines get crammed into, they just act like it's self evidently a betrayal of the beautiful blanchian gothic soulful attack bike.
I started in 4th, does that make me a grognard? But yeah, "old good new bad" only makes sense if you're a contrarian zoomer. Space Marines were always stupid and the closest range to actual plastic toys/action figures, if anything the push for "reasonable marines" with Phobos and Raptors chapter is the issue here.
I wonder how much the shift of the market to an American public has shifted the design philosophy. It'd be interesting to see design docs and shit, but knowing GW that'll be never.
>Space Marines were always stupid and the closest range to actual plastic toys/action figures, if anything the push for "reasonable marines" with Phobos and Raptors chapter is the issue here.
Agreed. Classic marines look like buzz lightyear with dark vaders mouth and they all have american football team names and colors.
The whole baby Carrier/marine inside of bigger armor era was weird.
If they released these style of models back in the 80's I could accept it as just a Aliens Work Loader reference piece but they were completely out of place by the 10's.
They were more likely a matrix reference, which just feels even more out of place in 40K. Maybe it'd work as a mechanicus unit with a servitor up front but even then I don't think I'd like it.
What battlefield role does the stupid buggy fill that wasn't already fulfilled by either the landspeeder or the attack bike?
Why does it have a new kind of gun instead of a heavy bolter, assault cannon, etc.
Other than just being a shiny new thing to put good rules on to make morons buy it, what function does it serve in a tabletop army or colection?
The space marine range was functionally already complete in 4th edition, and everything added after has been an attempt to squeeze space marine shaped pegs into progressively smaller and more niche holes between the existing units. What would have been good for the end user was just updates every so often to higher quality molds for the older kits in the line, and a steady stream of upgrade sprues with fun things on them. What's good for business is milking whales who will buy any marine sllop they shit out at nottingham, and producing garbage that launches with good rules to attract the aforementioned morons (tourneygays).
This is why Priestley said he left in 2012. Corporate and Marketing started dictating to the studio in the 2000s and it got intolerable for him. Up until the 2000s, the business side and creative side were virtually autonomous.
Sometimes you just need to draw a line in the sand and keep people with shit taste from pollution the experience.
X wing suffered really badly from this too, filling the game full of made up garbage from the EU and kids cartoons suddenly means a pickup game won’t even be real Star Wars anymore.
>What battlefield role does the stupid buggy fill that wasn't already fulfilled by either the landspeeder or the attack bike?
It's for dominating Mario Kart.
Gw is killing the hobby by making it so fricking expensive, no amount of marketing is going to fix this. I haven't bought new models in years given the fricking price creep >60 fricking yuros for 12 miniatures
Lmao frick off
There's no way the models themselves, even factoring in design and making the moulds, wouldn't be highly profitable if they sold them for a third of what they do.
They kept searching for how high they could crank up the price before people stopped buying and they lost money, and are under the impression they haven't gone too far because profits are still increasing. But they're not considering all the potential customers who get turned off their very first purchase by this shit.
People keep complaining that this hobby is expensive, they clearly haven't tried any other activity. Just about any other hobby is more expensive with far less options to reduce cost. I swear miniature war gamers are the saltyest b***hes I've ever met.
The frick are you saying, moron? Name at least one hobby that is more expensive than Warhammer? And before you open your trap, take into account the price of painting and the time it takes.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Even in the realm of miniature kits GW is overpriced, gunpla fricks citadel in the ass for quality and price at any size of kit.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Cars, hobby trains, fishing, boating. I could go on. My brother has spent 40k AUD and hundreds of hours restoring an old Ford escort, call me when you reach anywhere near that level of time and cash investment. You're just a cheap b***h.
2 months ago
Anonymous
And he has a spare car in case the main one breaks down. This is no longer a hobby, it is an investment in something that is practical and has the potential to become an antique. Comparing oranges and apples, I accept your confession, GW shill.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Collecting sneakers.
I have no idea how people go about collecting lego, just that they do and its expensive now, might be an interesting comparison if anyone has experience with it.
Boating of any variety.
Gun collections.
Not to say GW isn't expensive. It is. But there are all kinds of dumb expensive things people spend money on.
2 months ago
Anonymous
And he has a spare car in case the main one breaks down. This is no longer a hobby, it is an investment in something that is practical and has the potential to become an antique. Comparing oranges and apples, I accept your confession, GW shill.
If you honestly think Warhammer is the most expensive hobby on earth you are telling on yourself about how isolated and lacking in life experience you are.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Okay, you got me, let's rephrase - how many stupid hobbies that do not bring real benefits and available for the middle class are more expensive than Warhammer?
2 months ago
Anonymous
You are the type to watch TV on a lawn chair in your barren walled living room because you don't want to "waste" money on furniture.
2 months ago
Anonymous
You going to keep ignoring all the examples already posted? >captcha: TRY AA
Frick you captcha I can quit when I want.
0 arguments, just reeeeeing. I accept your confession. Although I feel sorry for you as a Warhammer let down it potential, but what can you do, the dictatorship of idiots is the hallmark of the current era.
2 months ago
Anonymous
nou
2 months ago
Anonymous
You going to keep ignoring all the examples already posted? >captcha: TRY AA
Frick you captcha I can quit when I want.
2 months ago
Anonymous
You're right and they're right too, anon. It's not the most expensive hobby by a long shot, but for what it is, it is way too expensive, and clearly driven by corporate greed.
>Boating
Almost every boater I've known says rent, don't buy, owned a house boat (So they fricking lived on it), or had so much goddamn money that it isn't even material to the. Or this discussion. >Guns
Is a landmine politically, but there's typically a bit more going on there than "I just like 'em" and is usually doubled into hunting or self-defense to justify the cost. And most gun owners I know thing shit has gotten way too expensive lately, too. >Cars
Is a practical good. Collecting is another "frick you money" hobby and not popular among the young for a reason. Those that are young usually just dream big and rice out a shit car and annoy everyone in public, but that's there perogative. >Fishing
Fair enough, but much like boating it's often more about memories and time in nature and with family, and having those great experiences. It's rarely about just catching the fish themselves. >Sneakers
Truly moronic since they ain't going to wear them ever so there's no practical purpose or real memory or experience attached. There are socioeconomic factors/status ideas to consider there, even if they're still dumb. >Hobby trains
The closest comparison here, but there's a serenity to it and is usually by scale and not source that it gets expensive, OG autism hobby >Wargaming
Get gouged on overpriced books they replace often fir more money and little plastic models that cost 1/10th of the price they cost to make and design as they do to buy, and for the benefit of probably sitting in a basement or a stuffy LGS to deal with angry weirdos doing the same thing (And we are the angry weirdos, to be sure).
It just doesn't justify itself for most reasonable people. It isn't the worst thing ever, but it's all corporate bullshit most people are sick of by now.
2 months ago
Anonymous
So I should stick to drawing and painting, then.
2 months ago
Anonymous
That's a solid plan, anon. Hell, the most beneficial part that could be said of the wargaming is the painting, which is almost in itself a separate hobby from the playing. We complain about the models because we like the models and process therein, if the game itself was perfect we could just sub in chess pieces and pennies and use our imagination.
Half of hobbies is for the rich, the other for freaks. How about clubbing, yoga, camping, video games or gardening?
That's a fair appraisal, kek.
>Clubbing
There's memories and (theoretically) getting laid, but wholly a gigantic waste of money down the fricking drain for largely depressing times around uncaring people in an economy and culture that made it not fun anymore >t. Former itinerant alcoholic clubber >Yoga
Actually fitness and should be very, very cheap if you're not paying for classes, more a social thing and a very positive thing to do if done by oneself or if you can deal with new age Doterra women. >Camping
See 'Fishing' above, almost mentioned it there. Hell, see 'guns' too, there's a three-circled diagram between those. >Bideo Gaems
See 'Wargaming' above, kek. I mean, I was going to say something more positive here, but it now occurs to me more than most subjects on /tg/, it's almost 1-to-1 similar in that corporate greed has raped the quality of it all, made it unaffordable (Expensive models vs. microtransaction live service shit and Gatcha), and the only thing worse than that is dealing with other gamers by and large. >Gardening
Wholly positive. Cost varies widely depending on what you're doing. Concrete good for the environment around you, general good for your own peace, mental state, and connection to nature, and more than likely get some nice healthy fruits n' veg out of it. Thank you for reminding me I should take back up gardening now that I'm not in an apartment.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Half of hobbies is for the rich, the other for freaks. How about clubbing, yoga, camping, video games or gardening?
40k is the only wargame played around where I live. And yes, I would rather just stop wasting my money on a hobby that is getting poorer in quality in terms of models while also becoming more expensive. I can fullfill my creative drives in other ways besides modelling and painting, like drawing stuff for example.
2 months ago
Anonymous
kwab
2 months ago
Anonymous
What?
2 months ago
Anonymous
>kek what a b***h
You're a b***h. Like the kind who gets fricked because they lack volition. You can't even open a new tab to search a thing you don't understand, let alone work up the gumption to try something not GW slop. Instead you just give up.
You're a b***h. Its funny.
Crybabies can't accept that the vast majority of players LOVE Primaris and have at least one space marine army.
bunch of frickin boomers crying about "The good old days" is cringe and gay. get better tastes, nobody cares about your pencil-scratch sketchbook "SOVL" slop
[...] >generic >formulaic
But the main criticism you guys level at these models if that they're a betrayal of the formula.
You guys can't be fricking serious . This makes the terrible Saturday morning cartoons i watched in the 90s look like the mother fricking Godfather Part 1. >the formula
Yah Black the Warhammer formula is what we want, this is just lame toys section at Target formula.
Even GW hates these crappy models and pretends they don’t exist now. Why they’re slowly just bringing back firstborn squad types but primaris
But yeah new marine stuff looks worse but I still remember the early 2000s when everyone was crying on MSN boards and warseer about how anime was ruining 40ks style with Tau
They'd have fit better as an admech, votann, or elysian thing. Space Marines should move like a gears of war character and stomp and throw themselves everywhere, not hover.
Has anyone managed to make these work in a kitbash? The autocannon looks usable, but why they decided to stick it on a hybrid jump pack unit is confounding.
I hate Space Marines, always have, always will. Will never collect them.
But those frick huge missile launchers are awesome. This guy one-handing a dual missile launcher? Pure Last Action Hero shit. Love him. When we get a Catachan refresh I hope we get this kind of stupid shit and no serious americanised shite.
It's Cawadoodie Crossover Time! In case you didn't know what that was for. It's just GW marketing to literal children (and normies) in order to bring in new customers... Because they need someone to buy their models designed to appeal to a 10-year-old :o)
>anyone else receives a scale update >Marines receive a scale update
It wasn't a scale update like the rest got. It was implemented in a way designed to render existing Space Marine armies redundant to get people to buy their whole army over again. The Primaris release is worlds away from just 'Eldar Guardians... but a couple of mm taller' or 'Necron Warriors... but a couple of mm taller' or 'Chaos Marines... but a couple of mm taller'. Primaris Marines were new Codex units with new rules, not just new models for the existing Codex units
Hell, when Snaggas were first released I remember there was a lot of griping from people worried that they were going to be 'Primaris Orks', which fortunately didn't last long since the regular Boyz followed soon after
>my model is slightly smaller >so I chucked it in the bin
Anon do you have issues with your height or size or sth? Do you feel dwarfed by the Primaris? They made Votann for you shortied jsyk
Ynnari would like to have a word with you, all 3 of them. The difference is unlike marinepiggies eldargays didn't monetarily support the ensloppening of their factions
Oldplayer here. Older was better for my tastes. Can't separate it from my teen years. But its only nostalgia. Modern 40K, and GW in general, is fine too. I just play what I like and let people do the same.
There are many old style companies selling products that I find appealing, and I buy them when I can.
I don't get new art, but hey, I'm old and that is how it works.
What have we become, as the legions wane?
A universe forsaken, by dwindling flames.
Our stories fade to whispers, our armies rust,
In the silence of lost battles, we're left to dust.
For everything but the tabletop game itself you're actually fine if you have good taste.
For novels and lore, read nothing from the Gathering Storm/Fall of Cadia on. Read 30K and 40K set before those lore ruining developements. There is actually enough good stuff that predates or avoids the ruined 40K era lore that you will not run out of it, and if you do you've definitely read enough and should read something else.
Even for collecting and painting armies you're fine. Primaris marines helmets look like mark 5 helmets. They needn't be "Primaris". Especially for custom chapters-your chapter happens to have access to and often supply themselves using the STC blueprint for Mark 5 helmets rather than newer models.
Similarly you can easily use HH marines as 40K models, get some more variety. Chapters have older armour models. Its fine.
Hover tanks, the meme units, you can avoid them. Leviathan had nothing like that. Neither did Indomitus, and the 8th edition launch box only had 3 of those jumping monstrosities. The new dreadnoughts are fine, similar enough to the old boxnoughts that once again you can pass them off as a less common slight variant. And in any case once again they can have 30K dreadnoughts as relics.
Custodes just shouldn't be an army obviously, the game is screwed from all angles. Votann could be okay though, I just don't care to learn about them because all Votann stories will have the new crap wider 40K lore.
My problem with the Desolators is that they crammed all the gun ideas onto one. I can only imagine they did so in order to ensure you had less and less parts left over to kitbash with. All the ideas of the Desolators on their own are great.
Belt felt, rotating micro missile launcher: Good idea
Commando Style disposable Rocket Launcher: Good idea
But then they slapped one on top of the other and it just looks ugly.
why is it okay when old models are goofy and exaggerated but bad when new models do the same thing
Because the exaggeration was simply fricking up proportions or the limitations of the Small Indie Company doing the work, not market-researched formulaic slop.
>generic
>formulaic
But the main criticism you guys level at these models if that they're a betrayal of the formula.
Do not ask for coherent thought from the geriatric millenial. They are blinded by nostalgia and their brain has melted to the hair product they've used.
Oldhammer neckbeards are unsalvagable. There's practically no point in giving them any attention outside of their containment thread because they will never change their opinion and cannot be reasoned with. They are the Warhammer embodiment of "They changed it, so it sucks!" Every time I think about responding to them about how ridiculous they sound, I stop myself because I'd just be feeding their swollen egos. They're the kind of people who assume that they've won the argument despite having said nothing other than "my opinion is right and yours is wrong, I will not elaborate beyond this." It's not a conversation you're having with them, they're the conversational equivalent of a brick wall.
As to the OP, the Desolation squad looks silly because they have what ought to be Ork rocket launchers. They're a little silly, yes, but frankly they're less offensive to me than Reivers are.
>LE SPOOKY MASK MAN BATTLESHOCK ALL YOONITZ
I hate Reivers (you do too), and I hate that they're what we get for "melee-oriented" Phobos units.
>they won't eat the poo-poo like me and a load of consoomers
There is so much more creativity in the Oldhammer scene. Some of it involving new miniatures to achieve their aims.
Maker name, I beg ye
Satyr Art Studio
Actually a funny post to read since it's virtually identical how I feel the other way. I stopped trying to good faith engage with new warhammer fans years ago because no matter how elaborately I tried to explain my issue it always got reduced to "you just think new is bad!" and there comes a point when you just gotta realize that New Warhammer fans' personal identities are too tied up in an IP for it to ever register for them that there might be legitimate criticism at play. Provoking and b8ing and shitposting might be fun but actual attempts at conversation are a waste of time and effort.
Kek. You homosexuals sound like you're defending political positions in a charged environment and not the pulp writing behind plastic space men
Everything is political. And don't deny that the split among those autistic enough to talk about 40k on here aren't largely split along ideological lines because everything is political whether the normies think it or not (they don't. Normies passive consumers who will buy whatever is in front of them and go along with whoever wins. It's not that normies have good taste or bad taste. They have, quite literally, no taste). The fight between progress, change and decolonization of culture vs stagnation, traditionalism and reactionaries doesn't end at the ballot box.
Good troll, almost fell for it, "ballot box" is going too far though.
It's not a troll. The fact that you think that political act begins with and ends with a vote betrays your own ignorance. It's to drive home the initial point: everything is political. Especially entertainment.
Anon, if you believe that your hecking vote matters, I can't do shit for you.
But I agree, everything is political.
Beauty is eternal and therefore art must be preserved. No amount of CAD and Blackmarines will ever stack up to the old handsculpts. I bet you paint Primaris marines in shifty, thick coat rainbow schemes for upvotes. Disgusting.
>But the main criticism you guys level at these models if that they're a betrayal of the formula.
Different anons, slightly different points.
My position in
is that the old style of exaggeration had no formula, it's just what the people involved happened to make inside the time and budget constraints. There was no management relentlessly boiling everything down for "The Wider Audience", there was no on-high bible of designs that all artwork must fit within, there was only throwing over-the-top nonsense at the wall and hurrying to get models to molds.
The point
makes is the one you refer to, with the assumption that the old style was deliberate and coherent (it wasn't, hence the Chapter House shitshow) and consequently the change is a "betrayal" of the roots instead of the natural tendency of an IP to become more consistent for brand value.
The only problem with the rocket marines is their pose, and lack of visual weight given to their huge ass guns.
change my mind [spoiler]
It was a genuine stylistic choice that characterized the tone of the game and setting. It also didn't look like generic slop.
>le slop
Alright, point to what you think these guys are copying. Do note you will be laughed at if you post a nerf gun, since there’s zero percent the “formulaic market research slop” told them people would want to buy marines with literal nerf guns.
Like most things, goofy can be good or bad.
For old models, and I mean old ones, they have the advantage of being hand sculpted and being translations of the early game concepts as they were being hashed out so there's genuine artistry involved in their creation. It's like seeing a physical artstyle so even when a model has some wonky anatomy or silliness in the sculpting (like the classic Nagash face) I can still look at it and admire that someone had to sit down and make it all by hand first.
New models, especially ones made since the switch to full digital sculpting, don't get as much leeway with it. Yes, there's still artistry and skill involved in their creation but when the creator has so many ways to prevent flaws in the sculpt, has to adhere to tighter brand styling, and the setting itself wants to be taken more seriously now any exaggeration or silliness is seen as more of an error than an artistic quirk
I like the stupid rocket launcher guys.
I will buy the scouts instead, I'm workin' on a budget here.
It feels like half the hate for new GW models is from people telling each other to hate it. /tg/ feels like Ganker now where it's "uncool" to like things so everyone just repeats that they hate everything. Nobody has actually been able to explain to me why the primaris kart is any different than the other goofy scout vehicles marines get crammed into, they just act like it's self evidently a betrayal of the beautiful blanchian gothic soulful attack bike.
I started in 4th, does that make me a grognard? But yeah, "old good new bad" only makes sense if you're a contrarian zoomer. Space Marines were always stupid and the closest range to actual plastic toys/action figures, if anything the push for "reasonable marines" with Phobos and Raptors chapter is the issue here.
I wonder how much the shift of the market to an American public has shifted the design philosophy. It'd be interesting to see design docs and shit, but knowing GW that'll be never.
>Space Marines were always stupid and the closest range to actual plastic toys/action figures, if anything the push for "reasonable marines" with Phobos and Raptors chapter is the issue here.
Agreed. Classic marines look like buzz lightyear with dark vaders mouth and they all have american football team names and colors.
James sent goons into my home that smashed my prized Centurions and replaced them with Gravis armor Primaris marines.
>Centurions replaced with Gravis Primaris.
For once you got better models.
Man, I keep forgetting centurions were a genuine product. Look at those fricking things
The whole baby Carrier/marine inside of bigger armor era was weird.
If they released these style of models back in the 80's I could accept it as just a Aliens Work Loader reference piece but they were completely out of place by the 10's.
They were more likely a matrix reference, which just feels even more out of place in 40K. Maybe it'd work as a mechanicus unit with a servitor up front but even then I don't think I'd like it.
Weirdly aping the matrix era never ended
It never stopped, the Sisters got one
What if I think all of those models are dumb? The speeder is alright but I always though the sidecar bike looked fricking moronic.
Land speeders are cheeky and fun, quad buggies are cruel and tragic.
And attack bikes were always ugly.
What battlefield role does the stupid buggy fill that wasn't already fulfilled by either the landspeeder or the attack bike?
Why does it have a new kind of gun instead of a heavy bolter, assault cannon, etc.
Other than just being a shiny new thing to put good rules on to make morons buy it, what function does it serve in a tabletop army or colection?
The space marine range was functionally already complete in 4th edition, and everything added after has been an attempt to squeeze space marine shaped pegs into progressively smaller and more niche holes between the existing units. What would have been good for the end user was just updates every so often to higher quality molds for the older kits in the line, and a steady stream of upgrade sprues with fun things on them. What's good for business is milking whales who will buy any marine sllop they shit out at nottingham, and producing garbage that launches with good rules to attract the aforementioned morons (tourneygays).
>The space marine range was functionally already complete in 4th edition
The sad truth is that eventually all good things will be made worse by bean counters.
This is why Priestley said he left in 2012. Corporate and Marketing started dictating to the studio in the 2000s and it got intolerable for him. Up until the 2000s, the business side and creative side were virtually autonomous.
Sometimes you just need to draw a line in the sand and keep people with shit taste from pollution the experience.
X wing suffered really badly from this too, filling the game full of made up garbage from the EU and kids cartoons suddenly means a pickup game won’t even be real Star Wars anymore.
>What battlefield role does the stupid buggy fill that wasn't already fulfilled by either the landspeeder or the attack bike?
It's for dominating Mario Kart.
The new models look like hasbro gi Joe toys.
GW is trying its hardest to get fresh new blood into its hobby ecosystem even if the methods are a bit unorthodox or downright hilarious to look at.
They shoulda made Kill Team a board game with cheaper PVC models and a little cellophane window for the Battletech style anticipation.
Gw is killing the hobby by making it so fricking expensive, no amount of marketing is going to fix this. I haven't bought new models in years given the fricking price creep
>60 fricking yuros for 12 miniatures
Lmao frick off
There's no way the models themselves, even factoring in design and making the moulds, wouldn't be highly profitable if they sold them for a third of what they do.
They kept searching for how high they could crank up the price before people stopped buying and they lost money, and are under the impression they haven't gone too far because profits are still increasing. But they're not considering all the potential customers who get turned off their very first purchase by this shit.
I certainly stopped buying a while ago, and will probably drop the hobby for good at this rate
People keep complaining that this hobby is expensive, they clearly haven't tried any other activity. Just about any other hobby is more expensive with far less options to reduce cost. I swear miniature war gamers are the saltyest b***hes I've ever met.
The frick are you saying, moron? Name at least one hobby that is more expensive than Warhammer? And before you open your trap, take into account the price of painting and the time it takes.
Even in the realm of miniature kits GW is overpriced, gunpla fricks citadel in the ass for quality and price at any size of kit.
Cars, hobby trains, fishing, boating. I could go on. My brother has spent 40k AUD and hundreds of hours restoring an old Ford escort, call me when you reach anywhere near that level of time and cash investment. You're just a cheap b***h.
And he has a spare car in case the main one breaks down. This is no longer a hobby, it is an investment in something that is practical and has the potential to become an antique. Comparing oranges and apples, I accept your confession, GW shill.
Collecting sneakers.
I have no idea how people go about collecting lego, just that they do and its expensive now, might be an interesting comparison if anyone has experience with it.
Boating of any variety.
Gun collections.
Not to say GW isn't expensive. It is. But there are all kinds of dumb expensive things people spend money on.
If you honestly think Warhammer is the most expensive hobby on earth you are telling on yourself about how isolated and lacking in life experience you are.
Okay, you got me, let's rephrase - how many stupid hobbies that do not bring real benefits and available for the middle class are more expensive than Warhammer?
You are the type to watch TV on a lawn chair in your barren walled living room because you don't want to "waste" money on furniture.
0 arguments, just reeeeeing. I accept your confession. Although I feel sorry for you as a Warhammer let down it potential, but what can you do, the dictatorship of idiots is the hallmark of the current era.
nou
You going to keep ignoring all the examples already posted?
>captcha: TRY AA
Frick you captcha I can quit when I want.
You're right and they're right too, anon. It's not the most expensive hobby by a long shot, but for what it is, it is way too expensive, and clearly driven by corporate greed.
>Boating
Almost every boater I've known says rent, don't buy, owned a house boat (So they fricking lived on it), or had so much goddamn money that it isn't even material to the. Or this discussion.
>Guns
Is a landmine politically, but there's typically a bit more going on there than "I just like 'em" and is usually doubled into hunting or self-defense to justify the cost. And most gun owners I know thing shit has gotten way too expensive lately, too.
>Cars
Is a practical good. Collecting is another "frick you money" hobby and not popular among the young for a reason. Those that are young usually just dream big and rice out a shit car and annoy everyone in public, but that's there perogative.
>Fishing
Fair enough, but much like boating it's often more about memories and time in nature and with family, and having those great experiences. It's rarely about just catching the fish themselves.
>Sneakers
Truly moronic since they ain't going to wear them ever so there's no practical purpose or real memory or experience attached. There are socioeconomic factors/status ideas to consider there, even if they're still dumb.
>Hobby trains
The closest comparison here, but there's a serenity to it and is usually by scale and not source that it gets expensive, OG autism hobby
>Wargaming
Get gouged on overpriced books they replace often fir more money and little plastic models that cost 1/10th of the price they cost to make and design as they do to buy, and for the benefit of probably sitting in a basement or a stuffy LGS to deal with angry weirdos doing the same thing (And we are the angry weirdos, to be sure).
It just doesn't justify itself for most reasonable people. It isn't the worst thing ever, but it's all corporate bullshit most people are sick of by now.
So I should stick to drawing and painting, then.
That's a solid plan, anon. Hell, the most beneficial part that could be said of the wargaming is the painting, which is almost in itself a separate hobby from the playing. We complain about the models because we like the models and process therein, if the game itself was perfect we could just sub in chess pieces and pennies and use our imagination.
That's a fair appraisal, kek.
>Clubbing
There's memories and (theoretically) getting laid, but wholly a gigantic waste of money down the fricking drain for largely depressing times around uncaring people in an economy and culture that made it not fun anymore
>t. Former itinerant alcoholic clubber
>Yoga
Actually fitness and should be very, very cheap if you're not paying for classes, more a social thing and a very positive thing to do if done by oneself or if you can deal with new age Doterra women.
>Camping
See 'Fishing' above, almost mentioned it there. Hell, see 'guns' too, there's a three-circled diagram between those.
>Bideo Gaems
See 'Wargaming' above, kek. I mean, I was going to say something more positive here, but it now occurs to me more than most subjects on /tg/, it's almost 1-to-1 similar in that corporate greed has raped the quality of it all, made it unaffordable (Expensive models vs. microtransaction live service shit and Gatcha), and the only thing worse than that is dealing with other gamers by and large.
>Gardening
Wholly positive. Cost varies widely depending on what you're doing. Concrete good for the environment around you, general good for your own peace, mental state, and connection to nature, and more than likely get some nice healthy fruits n' veg out of it. Thank you for reminding me I should take back up gardening now that I'm not in an apartment.
Half of hobbies is for the rich, the other for freaks. How about clubbing, yoga, camping, video games or gardening?
>GW is too expensive
Okay yes.
>So I will stop wargaming, modelling and painting entirely
Wait what?
Their hobby is GW, not miniatures.
40k is the only wargame played around where I live. And yes, I would rather just stop wasting my money on a hobby that is getting poorer in quality in terms of models while also becoming more expensive. I can fullfill my creative drives in other ways besides modelling and painting, like drawing stuff for example.
kwab
What?
>kek what a b***h
You're a b***h. Like the kind who gets fricked because they lack volition. You can't even open a new tab to search a thing you don't understand, let alone work up the gumption to try something not GW slop. Instead you just give up.
You're a b***h. Its funny.
>WHAT HAVE I BECOME
A soulless cashcow for a few hundred utterly disinterested investors and slop for the paypigs eager to give them money.
Nothing happened to IT.
YOU just got old.
>Actually there's literally no difference between Rogue Trader and 10th Edition
lyl
Information Technology bros.... it's over....
EVERYONE I KNOW GOES AWAY
IN THE END
AND YOU COULD HAVE IT ALL, MY EMPIRE OF DIRT
I WILL LET YOU DOWN
I WILL MAKE YOU HURT
>WFB - Age of Smegmar
Crybabies can't accept that the vast majority of players LOVE Primaris and have at least one space marine army.
bunch of frickin boomers crying about "The good old days" is cringe and gay. get better tastes, nobody cares about your pencil-scratch sketchbook "SOVL" slop
You guys can't be fricking serious . This makes the terrible Saturday morning cartoons i watched in the 90s look like the mother fricking Godfather Part 1.
>the formula
Yah Black the Warhammer formula is what we want, this is just lame toys section at Target formula.
Take that back, Desolators are the coolest SM minis made in years.
how old are you
be honest
Nice bait. Have a (you)
Man I really hate this abstract art, give me those sweet 40K details, the sort of cool shit where I can find something new every time I look
I SPOKE TO EMPEROR TODAY
HE SAID IM NOT TO BLAME
WHAT HAVE I DONE
WHAT HAVE I BECOME
Even GW hates these crappy models and pretends they don’t exist now. Why they’re slowly just bringing back firstborn squad types but primaris
But yeah new marine stuff looks worse but I still remember the early 2000s when everyone was crying on MSN boards and warseer about how anime was ruining 40ks style with Tau
>warseer
That takes me back
Frick that wintermute homosexual mod tho
40k On Ice
Nobody has ever fleeced me as hard as Games Workshop.
*Games Workshop's Finecast line of products.
I unironically fricking love these things. They're just the right kind of moronic.
They'd have fit better as an admech, votann, or elysian thing. Space Marines should move like a gears of war character and stomp and throw themselves everywhere, not hover.
Has anyone managed to make these work in a kitbash? The autocannon looks usable, but why they decided to stick it on a hybrid jump pack unit is confounding.
I hate these stupid riverdance models so much.
I hate Space Marines, always have, always will. Will never collect them.
But those frick huge missile launchers are awesome. This guy one-handing a dual missile launcher? Pure Last Action Hero shit. Love him. When we get a Catachan refresh I hope we get this kind of stupid shit and no serious americanised shite.
Not enough b8 posts have the nice plausible hook at the start. Trolling is a dying art.
>He doesn't like Sgt. Avery Johnson
Most plebian opinion in this thread.
That's Joseph Rao Kony.
Which company produces the best child soldier minis?
Oh no, I love him. That's my point, I could've said it better lol.
I meant I hope they don't "reasonable-ify" the Catachan and keep with picrel.
>spacemarine
>ar platform
>with p mags
OK
It's Cawadoodie Crossover Time! In case you didn't know what that was for. It's just GW marketing to literal children (and normies) in order to bring in new customers... Because they need someone to buy their models designed to appeal to a 10-year-old :o)
It's a skin for a FPS, yes.
Gw is desperately trying to pump their IP in hopes of getting bought out by some bigger company
shit looks like the xcom 2 mod
>anyone else receives a scale update
>generally positive reception with some people disliking specific features on the design
>Marines receive a scale update with some fluff justification
>7 years of JAMES KILLED SOVL, CADIA HAS FALLEN TRILLIONS MUST DIE
Wasn't a scale update though was it
>anyone else receives a scale update
>Marines receive a scale update
It wasn't a scale update like the rest got. It was implemented in a way designed to render existing Space Marine armies redundant to get people to buy their whole army over again. The Primaris release is worlds away from just 'Eldar Guardians... but a couple of mm taller' or 'Necron Warriors... but a couple of mm taller' or 'Chaos Marines... but a couple of mm taller'. Primaris Marines were new Codex units with new rules, not just new models for the existing Codex units
Hell, when Snaggas were first released I remember there was a lot of griping from people worried that they were going to be 'Primaris Orks', which fortunately didn't last long since the regular Boyz followed soon after
>scale update aka planned obsolescence
>for your toys
Frick off.
>my model is slightly smaller
>so I chucked it in the bin
Anon do you have issues with your height or size or sth? Do you feel dwarfed by the Primaris? They made Votann for you shortied jsyk
The frick you think a scale update means you idiot.
>hur this model is obsolete now hur
You absolute nitwit.
Ynnari would like to have a word with you, all 3 of them. The difference is unlike marinepiggies eldargays didn't monetarily support the ensloppening of their factions
>i focus on the pain
>the only thing thats real
>Old good
>New bad
Oldplayer here. Older was better for my tastes. Can't separate it from my teen years. But its only nostalgia. Modern 40K, and GW in general, is fine too. I just play what I like and let people do the same.
There are many old style companies selling products that I find appealing, and I buy them when I can.
I don't get new art, but hey, I'm old and that is how it works.
This post deserves a (you) for one of the most authentically boomer it reads. Would absolutely believe you had been to Woodstock lmao
AND YOU CAN HAVE IT ALL
MY SHELVES OF PLASTIC CRACK
I WILL NOT GROW UP
MY CHILDHOOD WILL COME BACK
Kinda want to see Johnny Cash now with dust-covered plastic men instead of rotting fruit.
What have we become, as the legions wane?
A universe forsaken, by dwindling flames.
Our stories fade to whispers, our armies rust,
In the silence of lost battles, we're left to dust.
I truly and sincerely believe people who can't even fit the meter when they write fake lyrics will burn in the deepest circles of Hell.
That Primaris weapon makes no sense
It looks like if an ork on drugs welded a bunch of Imperial weapons together into a single omnigun
For everything but the tabletop game itself you're actually fine if you have good taste.
For novels and lore, read nothing from the Gathering Storm/Fall of Cadia on. Read 30K and 40K set before those lore ruining developements. There is actually enough good stuff that predates or avoids the ruined 40K era lore that you will not run out of it, and if you do you've definitely read enough and should read something else.
Even for collecting and painting armies you're fine. Primaris marines helmets look like mark 5 helmets. They needn't be "Primaris". Especially for custom chapters-your chapter happens to have access to and often supply themselves using the STC blueprint for Mark 5 helmets rather than newer models.
Similarly you can easily use HH marines as 40K models, get some more variety. Chapters have older armour models. Its fine.
Hover tanks, the meme units, you can avoid them. Leviathan had nothing like that. Neither did Indomitus, and the 8th edition launch box only had 3 of those jumping monstrosities. The new dreadnoughts are fine, similar enough to the old boxnoughts that once again you can pass them off as a less common slight variant. And in any case once again they can have 30K dreadnoughts as relics.
Custodes just shouldn't be an army obviously, the game is screwed from all angles. Votann could be okay though, I just don't care to learn about them because all Votann stories will have the new crap wider 40K lore.
it's all trash
My problem with the Desolators is that they crammed all the gun ideas onto one. I can only imagine they did so in order to ensure you had less and less parts left over to kitbash with. All the ideas of the Desolators on their own are great.
Belt felt, rotating micro missile launcher: Good idea
Commando Style disposable Rocket Launcher: Good idea
But then they slapped one on top of the other and it just looks ugly.
HALT BROTHERS!
WE MUST NOT GIVE AWAY OUR POSITION!
I SHALL SCOUT AHEAD AND DISCERN OUR ENEMIES LOCATION!
I like tactical marines, and I especially like Phobos.