What is your setting's excuse for the grandmaster of every discipline NOT being an elf? How are there humans, dwarves, and halflings who are better fighters, wizards, and bards when elves have way more time to practice?
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Elves are plants, and while long lived, most of their lives are spent vegetating in the sun. Every century they'll wake up to do shit for 10-20 years, then go back to vegging out.
>Elves are plants
Why?
You can't just ask why elves are vegetables, that's racist!
Eh, it was some kinda bullshit magically guided evolution thing that went dreadfully wrong millennia ago. So, a wizard did it.
Elves are humanoids and by definition light-skinned and humble. Why, would you make dwarves into tar?
They have more motivation.
SPBP
Seriously, the other races are lazy because they can be. Why accomplish what you could do in 20yrs what you could do in 80?
Exactly. You learn faster when you die faster.
As a teacher you will learn than a good student is the greatest thing to test and improve your own mastery. Elves would travel the land searching for promising candidates of lesser races in order to train them and hone their art.
This. My professor told me he learned more as a teacher than as a supervisor in our field.
The thing with elves though is that they're to arrogant to take on students. They don't have a need to teach a new generation because they're so long-lived, amd they're not usually going to teach the lesser races.
>Implying elves don't like teaching
How far we have strayed from the light...
I don't even want to read the thread.
Any argument of why elves shouldn't be masters of their craft is just some dumb excuse to handicap them, because these homosexuals cannot stand the idea of a race that isn't their favorite pet race (usually humans) to be the bestest, even if it's the logical conclusion. Everyone here spends to much time thinking of dumb shit to make their elves moronic, awful and weak that there is nothing compelling about them anymore more.
Now this is peak soul.
Too busy being fricked by big black wieners
The real elves are all dead, and the elf-analogs that aren't dead don't live that much longer than the other races.
They're weak and mentally moronic.
Elf is define as everything but frail. Where do these Plebbit users get their shit?
>Elves are snotty
Since when, DnD?
>Since when, DnD?
Since LotR
What is this from? I'm assuming a video game?
E.V.O.: The Theory of Evolution
Sauce?
bUt HuMaNs ArE sO vErSaTiLe!
Versatility is the most important thing by far.
What about vampires?
>Superhuman abilities
>An eternity to hone their skills
Difference is that vampires have to survive that long, they have vulnerabilities and because they have to feed eventually they will slip up and kill someone they shouldn't have and get fricked when a vampire hunting gang comes after them
Think you are forgetting a big detail about vampires which might prevent them from taking over.
Vampires are souless and envious. When they desire something they want it in the most twisted and disgusting way. A vampire who wants beuty will kidnap young maidens and petrify them forever, a vampire who desires martial strenght will kidnap a sword master just to mind control him to tell thr vampire he is already the best. The evil queen in snow white was a vampire
Spoiler: it was actually sleeping beauty who was the vampire, and she set the entire thing up as a giant ego trip about how great she was after mind controlling the evil queen into being a "villain" for her to be oppressed by.
>sleeping beauty who was the vampire
There are some old Ganker threads about a dark Disney universe that has vampire Sleeping Beauty as a major character, although she wasn't evil but rather a Edmund Dantes/Gully Foyle-esque figure out to take her revenge against Maleficent.
>jobs to sunlight
Vampires inevitably succumb to vampire madness as they age, gradually dulling most of their skills as a consequence. Sure, that ancient vampire you're facing now may still be a master swordsman with few if any peers, but he's also speaking complete nonsense and no longer understand the concept of architecture and why it's a bad idea to destroy the infrastructure of his own mansion, a far cry from the multi-talented and intelligent gentleman swordsman he once was.
Because humans genocided the elves long ago, and even today everyone only speaks with complete contempt about the old enemy.
>Elves get bored of shit (relatively) quickly
>Outside of their current or most recent career path they mostly have a bunch of skills at a solid but not elite level
80 years mastering the blade, 80 years mastering the bow, 50 years learning basket weaving, 100 years learning magic, 70 years learning wood carving, as of now 1 month adventuring
The elf mage was a master swordsman, but after 300 years he can only really recall the fundamentals you never really forget. Like asking someone who was a semi-pro extreme biker 40 years since he had last ridden a bike, he can ride a bike, pretty well probably but he won’t be doing flips off a half-pipe.
>bike
>not skateboard
frickin casual akin to fruitbooter
still, logic applies
If you have unlimited time to do something you have no sense of urgency or need to commit to it.
Elves are also frequently portrayed as frivolous and passionate doing whatever grabs their fancy in the moment.
Combine the two and it starts to make sense why not every grandmaster is an elf because theoretically long lived elves are constantly changing jobs and pursuing whatever they feel like in the moment and don't have the finite time needed to drive fast paced improvement.
But if you want to make every grandmaster an elf than no one can stop you although people that don't enjoy elfwank might not like that.
>captcha: Y0YTG
lel lmao even.
On the opposite, I'd imagine that due to their long lives elves would also have a tendency to slip into a showcase mentality/autism regarding their skills while refusing basic tasks as beneath them. An elf grandmaster woodworker isn't going to build you a cabinet no matter how ornate and complicated in construction because he grew bored of them two centuries ago, now if you want an intricate bas relief carved on a toothpick he's your guy.
That is honestly a great explanation. Will keep that in mind.
Elves are snotty, and don't consider other races in the styles of combats. They are purely elvan styles. They would rather take seperate roads entirely than replicate new teachings by less races
There are no elves.
1. There are no Elves so there is no problem
2. Even if there are Elves not everything is accessible to them nor are they interested in it
3. For my own personal flavor they are not immortal and maybe live possibly a hundred years longer than most other races give or take violence and sickness. They just don't grow infirm with age.
If there's more than one race of elf, it's shit.
If there's not more than one race of dwarf, it's passable.
My setting's excuse? Elves are practically extinct with less than 100 total left alive and about a third or those being a century old at most with no new elves having been born in the past 90 years. As such, there simply aren't enough of them with enough experience under their belts to be considers masters of everything.
Hell. Not a single one of them knows how to weave a basket underwater.
>Elves are practically extinct
Everybody's done that. Cheap. 1/10
Stop using reddit.
Why should I care what others are doing? Am I supposed to be trying to impress someone?
You shouldn't care. By doing exactly what others are doing, you show that you care.
And if he does what you say he should do, it also shows that he cares.
Solution is to do what you want and not give a shit, which is what he's doing.
Quads.
NOFX a shit, get bent underage b&
They're autistic.
Okay, not actually autistic, but the thing is that most elves essentially just live in the forest for their entire life, and they have a completely abstract sense of time. They'll spend six months watching a plant grow and doing very little else. They'll still be going through the motions of life, eating, drinking, sleeping, whatever, but in terms of actually living, an elf is entirely happy to sit around in the forest and basically do nothing for decades.
Elves who leave the forest are the ones to keep an eye on, because they DO become grandmasters of whatever they choose to pursue, but even when they are adapted to the relatively frenzied motion of civilisation, they still don't exactly move fast. They basically have learning disabilities. An elf will take twice as long to become a master painter as a human will, but the elf also lives twenty times longer. They're also rare and having a natural lifespan of 2000 years doesn't stop you being crushed by a carriage because you didn't look both ways.
They have time, but no talent and they get mighty disappointed when they see human advancing faster than them and throw away the practice of that skill calling it "beneath them". As such they only practice each discipline for a year or two before meeting a human who in the same timespan progressed more (or achieved their level in much shorter time) and getting disappointed and moving on to something else. Elf hermit autists that focus on some skill for centuries before meeting a talented human practicing the same thing are badass though.
I don't think you know very much about my setting.
Because most of those positions are held by immortal spirits. What can an 800 year old elf master swordsman who has spent the last 790 years mastering the blade do against the spirit of swords, who has existed since the first sword was made 12000 years ago and has dedicated its whole life to getting better at using swords?
Elves loose interest in things after about 100 years and then basically reinvent themselves. They learn new skills, find a new lover, might move to a new place, and find new friends.
They basically drop what they used to do to the point they need to relearn it.
There (generally) aren't short lived races who are better than elven grandmasters. The nonelven skill-competition generally comes from undead, immortal outsiders, and dragons.
But I don't scale everything infinitely either. There's only so much you can learn about basketweaving. And maintaining skills requires periodic usage. If you haven't done something for 50 years your skill and knowledge in the field will degrade.
But elves trend toward isolationism for a reason and the young elves are the ones who go out and interact with other races. And then their nonelf friends all start to die of old age, and so they become more reclusive over time, and then they move home and stay with the other elves. Simple, really.
But if you attack an elven kingdom, expect to face while armies of experts as the nation's defenses.
There aren't any Elves in my setting.
One specific elf is a grandmaster of many things because he's been around since life has been on the planet. Most elves do not live that long, either succumbing to malady, violence, or their own inherent corruption long before achieving anything particularly great. Elven immortality (and longevity) is realistically only a hypothetical, as the sort of hubris that pursues it can rarely ever achieve it.
no amount of practice will take you past a certain level of mastery, to really become a world class caster/warrior you need to go out and risk life and limb.
its why farm boy humans can get to level 18 in 2 years of adventuring but an elf who practiced the blade for 400 years is still a level 5 fighter.
thats just the logic of the world.
Natural aptitude and diminishing marginal returns.
>Natural aptitude
Other races reproduce more and are more numerous, meaning more chances to get geniuses of a certain skillset.
Furthermore, some races are more naturally fit for certain skillsets than elves (higher ability scores).
No matter how much you practice, if you don't have the innate aptitude for something, you won't become a master.
>Diminishing marginal returns
Eventually the returns you get from practice diminish or fall to zero. Living 500 years doesn't matter if you can hone your skill to its absolute finest point in 10 years.
Out of the however many years you've lived so far, how many of them have you spent actually learning skills beyond the bare minimum you needed to get by? 50 years is more than enough time to master all kinds of different shit and become an expert at dozens of scientific topics and trades, and yet almost nobody bothers to.
There are many things that people would much rather spend their time on instead of the tedious bullshit that is self-improvement. Like getting drunk with friends or shitposting on the internet.
>Out of however many years you've lived so far how many have you spent actively learning more than the bare minimum you had to to get by?
Fractionally? About 5/6. But I know most people don't learn things for fun, and I have an above average amount of post secondary education as well.
And yet you're currently here instead of learning skills. Curious.
Rest period is essential part of training.
Uh huh.
Yeah. I tend to go hard learning new skills for a couple years, and then not. I don't spend 5/6 all my free time studying without breaks every day. Intermittent years of extra focus. But that fits your criteria fine. Also, my newborn son was born the day before yesterday, and this is something I can check between the constant feedings.
I've got a couple video series queued up to learn how to use blender for 3d modeling over the next two months, and a list of YouTube tutorials I plan to run through as well. I taught myself zbrush that way way in 2020.
It's definitely slowed down, but I've got 8 years of post secondary (a bsc, a 2 year business MGMT diploma, and a year of computer networking before I switched to university), and I'm only 34, so that raises the average amount of time I've studied stuff. Do you really not go through random spurts of researching stuff or take courses outside of what you have to? Why not? I get Americans pay for all their post secondary out of pocket. And that will dumb down the populace. But these days theres a ton of skillshare and udemy courses and the like that you can take online for pretty cheap.
>I don't spend 5/6 all my free time studying without breaks every day.
And that was exactly my point.
That's not what you said. At all. Keep moving those fricking goalposts though. There's a world of difference between "years where you learned more than the bare minimum" and "years where you did nothing but learn with your free time". I answered what you actually posted, not a straw man you imagined but didn't actually say. I do in fact - learn things out of what my job forces me to. Routinely. I do not spend every waking hour learning or improving my skills. But that wasn't what you asked the room.
>I spent 5 hours learning this year when I didn't need to, that's a year of learning!
You're a fricking moron.
>5 hours.
The fricking lazy projecting shitsack.
No. Like half my entertainment is informational videos and reading, and (during a period where I've decided to learn something new) like all of one day on the weekend, and a couple more hours in the week, you lazy; projecting; goalpost-moving; intellectually dishonest asswipe. So that's maybe ~700h a year of active learning. And when I'm not doing that, maybe 10h a week of "entertainment" that's history videos or articles or science and tech videos or articles, either explaining how shit works, or talking about cutting edge technologies people are working on. Or sometimes carpentry videos.
Do you really spend *all* your free time shit posting? You get no enjoyment from learning new things? Isn't that fricking boring?
You have spent the past 30 minutes sitting around here desperately trying to defend your honor. You don't spend 5/6 of all your time learning. Not even close. A year means a year, not whatever autistic definition you made up in your insecure little mind.
Killing time between baby feedings. But yeah. I'm now done with your neurotypical gaslighting headgamey bullshit. Clearly you're not capable of honest discussion. My point stands, there are people who do *enjoy* learning skills or new knowledge. But you're welcome to continue thinking nobody would ever do anything with a whiff of self improvement unless the alternative is homelessness while you spend all your time trolling people on the internet. Ciao.
You have not spent 5/6 of your time on this earth learning no matter how much you cry and stomp your feet.
Nobody said that they had. Learn to read. He said he spent 5/6 years spending a significant amount of time in the year learning. Getting pissed at you for twisting both your and other people's words ≠ claiming to have done a thing that you misrepresented them as.
Autists get mad at lying narcissist for sophistry, narcissist lies about what people said some more. More at 11.
do you not know what a fraction is
>Out of however many years you've lived so far, how many have you spent learning more than the bare minimum needed to get by.
>About 5/6.
5/6 ≈ 83%.
So. If he's 30, he spent 25 of those years years learning "more than the bare minimum" he could have gotten away with. Hypothetically. That *could* mean he did an unnecessary 1 weekend course in 25 different years. But from his expansion while getting pissed at you for your lying - I would infer that means:
> He actually tried in school
> He got more education than he absolutely had to
> He learns stuff for fun, casually and routinely.
> He's taken some independent courses that weren't part of his job.
> And there was about 5 distinct years of 30 years of life where he slacked off.
I dunno what that means about before kindergarten. Maybe it's a longer time period and he's counting those years as part of his ~17% of "slacking-off years".
Do you somehow not understand what "how many years" or "more than the bare minimum" mean? You said them.
Yeah fair enough. The narcissist is going to just lie about what people said some more. It's clearly compulsive. We're wasting our time.
You are a genuine moron. Year means year. It doesn't mean "parts of a year" or whatever the frick you think it means. You should have spent some of those 25 years you allegedly spent learning on learning how to fricking read.
>"How many years have you spent learning skills being the bare minimum you needed to get by" *aCtUaLlY* means how many years did you spend all 8760 hours on self improvement, moron.
>"Year where you spent more than the bare minimum you needed to get by" means 100% of the year, moron.
I see you have the long covid brain fog. Truly regrettable.
>ackshually a "year" means "any amount of time i feel like"
Ok moron.
>"The bare minimum amount of time spent on self improvement to get by in a year" was always 99.99999999999% of the year, obviously.
Okay, moron.
>"what fraction of time in your life have you spent on self improvement" is a different question you never asked and then you had a meltdown because that's not the question you got answers to.
Use your words next time, moron.
>The bare minimum amount of time spent on self improvement to get by in a year
Learn how to fricking read.
The original post is not ambiguous whatsoever. How many years have you spent learning when you didn't need to? Years. Not whatever fricking inane definition of "year" you used to give your moronic self a pat on the back.
>The bare minimum amount of time spent on self improvement to get by in a year
>Learn how to fricking read.
>The original post is not ambiguous whatsoever.
>How many years have you spent learning when you didn't need to?
Seems to be what he meant after his tantrums, but that's not what he said." If he had, he would have gotten different answers. And I would have possibly pointed out to someone who answered that any number greater than half your life is implausible once you factor in bodily functions and transportation.
>Out of the however many years you've lived so far, how many of them have you spent actually learning skills beyond the year bare minimum you needed to get by?
>Out of the however many years you've lived so far, how many of them
=Examine each year of your life, one by one.
>how many of them have you spent actually learning skills beyond the year bare minimum you needed to get by?
=If you learned more than the bare minimum in to get by that year and didn't slack off, add 1 to the count. Report the count over your current age.
If he wanted to know what total % of your life was spent on self improvement expressed as years of time spent / years lived (as his tantrum would suggest) - he should have said that in a way that wasn't ambiguous.
>He
At least try to be subtle about samegayging.
The grandmaster swordsman is an elf. Also as autistic as 's sword autist.
Most of the other grand masters are immortal aliens instead. They reincarnate when slain, therefore having one over on the elves.
Up until the day I got my first fill time job. Frick the 9 to 5 work week.
In Faerun (Waterdeep at least) the typical job is 30 hours per tenday. IE 90h/mo. (Waterdeep 3e has jobs in it and they list their shift requirements). They have a lot of discretionary time. And that's the humans, not the elves.
I'm not disagreeing with you about how exhausting a 9-5 well can be, but your comment brings up another reason to think comparing to another setting isn't a 1-1 match. They may have more time to learn skills with.
the elves were nuked
Elves, or any of the Burning Ones (dwarves etc) turning up and assuming mastery of the various disciplines would kick off holy war between the major churches and the pagan faiths that venerate the Burning Ones.
Plus on a more divine scale, the Twilight of the Gods would kick off if the Burning Ones made that sort of move.
Because my setting doesn't have any elves, it does have immortal rockmen though but magic is not their specialty
Elves are all philosophical zombies.
Elves are long-lived, but not immortal. There are immortal beings in the world, and if any given discipline would have a grandmaster, the title would assuresly go to an immortal, but elves are no more represented among the immortals than anyone else.
Inherent skill is superior to time spent training in my setting. An Elf will never surpass a skilled human.
Who's in charge of a guild is a function of politics, not skill in their chosen trade. Enough people of other races are able to reach the ranks required to stand (and vote) for guildmaster, and ingroup preference does the rest. Most places are also pretty monoracial, so there often just won't be any non-[local race] candidate to hold the position.
Grandmaster as in the guy who is the master amongst masters not guildmaster a guy who runs a guild anon
bad premise because there's other long lived races and even immortals
that said the elves are very busy taking care of something very important in the forest which will end the world if it dies and doesn't have a good biome for it to come back to
The idea that theres some defined "grandmaster" for a given discipline is a bit silly, what, is there a big ladder where every fighter is ranked based on some kind of ELO? And how do you define "discipline" anyways?
The best at orcish sabre fencing is going to be an orc, because theyre the people who practice that art, the best at some specific fighting stile developed in some human kingdom is likely to be a human, because theyre the ones who actually use that fighting style.
Because there arent that many of them and they arent very integrated into the cultures in which they now find themselves.
>most of my settings
Elves don't exist.
>settings with elves
Elves are more ephemeral spirits embodying abstract concepts, rather than being "human but with pointy ears and long life."
Elves are fricking pompous shitlings who are literally autistic and unable to properly develop like normal functioning humans can.
They dont exist in my setting.
Just about every "true" Grand Master is an elf. Thing is they're all old and can't stand dealing with the zoomers, including zoomer elves, so most people have never heard of them and even if they make an appearance their names tend to fade from memory with in a generation or two. So you have bunch of humans, dwarves etc proclaiming themselves grand masters and the only people who could probably dispute them don't even care anymore because they've already lived that movie dozens if not a hundred of times over.
High Elves are conniving schemers, and only grand masters of cutting corners. Wild Elves turn into dragons if they live long enough.
Because elves were weirdly materialistic in my setting and focused on really cool equipment like Lunar Moth silk gambisons, Yggdrasil wood bows and crossbows, Underdark Obsidian Blades, etc. Dwarves meanwhile were focused on making super weapons like a golem out of a mountain or creating the orcs. Humans were weirdly boring but practical and invented the bag of holding which was distributed on a large scale along with decanters of endless water to basically become masters of logistics.
So the only race that values the improvement of the soldier/warrior themselves were halflings (who, actually are dwarves. or rather dwarves are halflings)
Why do you make low quality threads? Explain yourself immediately.
No elves.
>a fricking idiot. You are
What did the chinaman mean by this cartoon
>elves are the only long-lived fantasy race
Mastery of that level isn't just a matter of practice and time, it's a matter of will. And while some Elves have that will, it's not as if elves with that level of dedication and will are simply falling out of the trees.
Also, Elves don't actually live that long. Yes, they live a bit longer in the grand scheme of things, and stay much more spry in their old age, but it's not as if an elf lives forever.
800 years is still ten human lifetimes, even if (depending on edition) they spend 1.2 centuries "growing up".
Immortal Elves get bored, after mastering something, move onto something new become a master of that, the muscle memory and finer knowledge fades, next subject to master before moving on the first skill fades even more. Eventually they will cycle interest and so much time has passed that they are a novice in what they were originally masters in. At some point an elf will be the best warrior, until he decides to be the worlds best botanist.
Point: Elves (typically) don't have perfect memory so there might be some degree of rust unless they maintain their skills. Outside of wartime this might be seen as something of an unhealthy obsession when others practice arts (music/magic) and crafts.
You might run into a warrior that hasn't picked up his sword in half a century.
to reach the grade of grandmaster an master has to look at their art from a completely different angle and make a style of their own.
elves, while completely fricking DOMINATING the botany field, are too haughty and stubborn to take the final step, while species with a couple centuries less to live are much better at doing so.
Talent. I have a king in my setting who is a freak of nature of a warrior. Several long lived being challenged him in his prime and lost, one quit fighting and went to learn how to be a master merchant, another went into teaching instead. Doesn't matter how long you practice if you don't have the genetics for it.
I don't see why threads like
need to be deleted when there are so many copypaste subjects in a single day.
Diminishing returns. A swordmaster elf might be better than a swordmaster human, but after a (human's) lifetime of training the increases in skill becomes pretty minimal. Usually not enough to beat two human swordmasters, who each might be 80% as skilled as the elf.
The best elf is always going to be better than the best human, but they'll always be multiple humans per elf at the upper echelons.
Something people always forget.
>What is your setting's excuse for the grandmaster of every discipline NOT being an elf?
Elves don't actually live any longer than the other humanoids. I'm not THAT slavishly devoted to Tolkien
Elf is defined first by their mastery of many skills and their virtue. Biological immortality is nice but not the first thing you think about modesty incarnate.
Elf immortality isn't universal across the species it's handed out as a reward by their High Queen and as such is only reserved for heroes, favored nobility, or favorites at court. It also has to be renewed regularly, otherwise the effects fade. The Queen has limited interest in martial pursuits beyond what is necessary for the defense of the elven kingdom. She'll keep a hero alive for as long as there is a threat, she'll keep an artist around if they need just a bit longer to finish their Magnum Opus, but she lacks any interest in sword man demanding to live longer so he can sword better.
Re: fighters
The average Elf fighter lives about as long as the average human fighter. Elves tolerate the lesser races because they still need things like Sawyers, Lumberjacks, Miners, Crab Fishermen and melee fighters on their front lines. Elves are understandably relictant to spend the rest of their thousand year life missing limbs or paralyzed because they caught a snapped cable to the spine, so they hire more short-lived, fecund races to do the shit jobs with high mortality and accident rates.
This, of course, causes all sorts of problems but those problems are still, on balance, less bad than getting mangled and spending the rest of your life in a combat wheelchair. Or just dying before your 200th birthday like a fricking mayfly. Elves who don't do this get filtered out pretty quickly.
In my setting elves got a double dose of the ' nature's guardians' animus from their dieties. They make up the majority of druids in my campaign setting. Their society focuses on little else. Guarding nature means they haven't developed technology that disturbs the earth like multi level mining or logging. Other races can learn druidic magic but the progression is so slow any non-elf you see who practices druidic magic is very certainly old. Any elf that rejects this life CAN use their lifespan to master other disciplines but they basically have to be player characters or high level NPCs.
>What is your setting's excuse for the grandmaster of every discipline NOT being an elf?
Not having elves.
Elves are easily bored creatures. Only study of the arcane arts can keep their attention for more than a month, hence why they're exclusively wielders of magic.
Bad understanding of the human brain / psychology, mostly.
If you have any intelligent being that is over the age of 200-300, I start to zone out. We can only guess how such ages would act and think. Much as a 50yo talks to a 5yo, I imagine.
So, you are left with the forced assumption that elves are slow learners, or at the very least stunted, or just moronic, to a degree. Maybe even autistic.
Ask yourself why a 50yo human Wizard is, somehow, the equivalent to the 1,000yo elf Wizard. This is very common in D&D and its repeaters.
Nothing is worse than Warcraft however, when that 1,000yo elf Wizard is actually 10,000+, or 25,000+ if you're a space goat. Still they act like normal human adults.
Garbage thread with garbage excuses btw.
kys
Elves and fantasy races having the same exact brain functions as humans, just stretched out over several hundreds of years, that's the garbage opinion. There is nothing that suggest that elves are slow learners and even some settings explicitly stating it not to be a thing, and this entire idea falls flat the moment an actual game starts and the elf character gains exp as fast as anyone else. They are a fantasy race naturally inclined to live a long life, so of course their brains would be adjusted to it.
>There is nothing that suggest that elves are slow learners
If they take 10x to 100x longer than a human to master [insert magical and/or intellectual field here]. then yes it's strongly suggested to any sane reader/thinker.
longer to what
Maybe that's a thing in your shitty post-MMO Warcraft setting, but elves there are designated punching backs.
Early D&D might had this as well with magic, but that setting is also stupid about its elves. Then again, I can play a 20 years old elf in Faerun and start gaining exp as fast as anyone else, making your whole point moot.
Warhammer elves are shit too. Teclis is a fricking baby, age-wise, prodigiousness be damned.
Only the Slann mage-priests actually (really) entertain the idea of slow ass pondering sages that shorter-lived races can only guess at.
>Teclis is a fricking baby, age-wise, prodigiousness be damned.
What is this supposed to mean? Isn't he a master of every wind of magic?
He is rather young (in the hundreds) for his kind, and yet he is -the- best among them, is my point.
>Teclis is a fricking baby, age-wise, prodigiousness be damned
And he is Ulthuans greatest wizard. Stat-wise and lore-wise, they are way above humans.
>Missing the point this hard
See
I don't see anything here that they learn slower or are dumber than humans.
It's not canon since it is something you just have to assume as an observant reader. A 50yo human wizard that just so happens to equal the 1,000yo elf wizard is an elephant in the room. Either elves learn slower (or humans learn faster), or magic, as it is, is not at all that difficult to process. Do you want magic to be something for the skilled few or not?
>A 50yo human wizard that just so happens to equal the 1,000yo elf wizard is an elephant in the room
That's not the case in warhammer fantasy, though, and not in other settings as well.
And my elf character will gain exp as fast as anyone else anyway.
>not in other settings as well.
Anon, it happens all the time. Look at D&D. Look at Warcraft. Look at League of Legends. All cancerous mediums that have damaged fantasy as a whole.
>elven NPCs will be much higher level on average because of their greater life experience.
And yet this is not demonstrated, a much younger humans can equal the greatest of elves in the minds of fantasists. I get it, it's for that le epic 'humanity, frick yeah' appeal, but c'mon.
Oh. I'm not trying to defend hack writers everywhere.
I'm just saying that's how I handle it. Age 120 = Age ~18, and then 1-for-1 for a human lifespan, and then elves keep going. The elves you'll find travelling and chumming around with humans are going to be ~120-180 or so, and in typical human level ranges. They go through a phase of it, then their human friends all die of old age, and they have to deal with that. Most go back to elf lands (or at least start associating mostly with elves on the mainland) and continue to level up (maybe many slow down and take it easier after that, but they do still do work and train and whatnot). But if you go to a place with a large established primarily elven population, expect the average NPC level (or CR equivalent) to spike up significantly just because of the age difference. But if you go to a place with much more insular elves who don't go through a phase of living on 'human timescales' - they may spend more of their time with friends and less of their time training or doing things like adventuring and that level difference will be less pronounced. Granted, if you go to such a place as a non-elf - they probably keep you under armed guard 24/7 if you don't have a local elven chaperone vouching for you who has gotten approval to bring you in.
But that IS the case in Warhammer. Teclis.
Rare among humans (outside mageocracies), common among elves, and elven NPCs will be much higher level on average because of their greater life experience.
Teclis is actually decently aged. Not for an archmage, but he is several hundred years old - and elves in warhammer rarely live more than a couple hundred years older than he is. His dad was slowing down at 700 or some shit iirc.
>In faerun.
Only in 5e thanks to garbage retcons. Before 5e, that 20yo elf is a baby. Maybe a toddler.
Being old doesn't necessarily make you wise, smart, or skilled.
The 30yo human wizard is equivalent to the 130yo elf wizard because elven maturation takes 120 years.
If you encounter a 700 year old elf:
1. Their "hang out with humans" days will be long behind them.
2. They probably think of you like how you think of a puppy, or a mouse.
3. Expect them to be > level 13. Only an incredibly rare and talented human could match an average 700yo elf.
>because elven maturation takes 120 years
They are considered adults at 100-something, because they have a different understanding of adulthood, but they don't necessarily mature slower. If they frick around doing nothing these years, yes, then they simply start later doing important shit. Starting later doesn't mean they learn slower. Nothing stopping them from starting to learn to cast spells during their teens.
Complete Book of Elves p38.
Outdated, in 5e, they physically mature at around 20. And it makes more sense that way.
>They don't mature slower
>Outdated, in 5e...
Yes. I covered that earlier. Oh. This comment chain doesn't connect to my comment here
.
>It makes more sense that way
Ehh. They're weird fallen-celestial alien colonists. I dont need them to have 'more typical human development'.
>Outdated
>Hasbro retcons are something you should care about.
Even if I'm going to run 5e (not super likely because I've found 5e fans tend to want RAW 5e and I have no interest in running RAW 5e), I don't include the contradictory slop. When there's a setting contradiction, my priorities are not 'whatever is newer'. It's generally Novels > Sourcebooks followed by Older > Newer, so I can use more of the material, and have more coherence / consistency.
>Use the corporate revisionist continuity because Hasbro says so.
I don't understand this mentality. No thanks.
And if You're running a homebrew setting, obv make up whatever you want. But if I'm going to use D&D it's because I want to use an existing D&D setting.
Humans only setting.
I usually dont have exceptionally long lived races or elves in the first place, but when i do it's a big fricking deal
None, the elves and the dwarves have an undisputable dominion on the world and no problems with sending hit squads against upstarts.
See - now that's an interesting twist.
No elves in the setting.
To bathe this in the light of reality: not everyone's practice is equal, even if they're practicing together. Some people are simply going to gain more from less practice than their peers.
Extreme overconfidence and rigidity.
Most Elf "grandmasters" in combat arts gets themselves killed because they think themselves untouchable, and begin to make idiotic mistakes, and it ends up catching up to them. We have constant examples of this today in fencing, where decorated experts will end up losing to near total beginners because they forget to accout that their enemy can do something hilariously stupid, and forget to account for it.
Most Elf "grandmasters" in non-combat arts produce genuinely wondrous pieces of art and craftsmanship, but they're unable to get with the times or apply adapt new techniques to what they do, and eventually, what they do becomes overshadowed by very skilled folk willing to roll with the punches.
don't know about you fellas but i don't think i could be a grandmaster of anything even if i lived for 5000 years
I would be the grandmasturbator.
I am already the Grand Procrastinator.
>What is your setting's excuse for the grandmaster of every discipline NOT being an elf?
They're all fricking insane from being immortals with mortal minds.
Territory is held by the species with the biggest advantage in the local habitat. Which is the reason why the elf-lands are expanding at all. The elves agressively remodel/terraform the area. Only the dwarves build as much stuff (fortresses & agriculture) as the elves.
Elf longevity makes them lazy, and elves are not humans, they're not omnitalented like we are.
1. My elves only have about double human lifespan. Ooc this is because I find extremely long lived or immortal characters to be poor pc choices.
2. Half-dragons, dragons, fey, demigods, titans, and undead exist. All of which easily outlive elves and actually have nothing better to do beyond watching the world turn.
3. Grandmasters are at a point where their natural lifespan is irrelevant.