this.
its surely took time and wasn't obvious at first but slowly and surely we ended up with what we have today, which is a completely different company that deserves to die out.
The devs doubling down on catering to hardcore players and the concurrent assassination of the game's lore and setting which devastated the feeling of the game.
Putting too much dev time into content like 5% AT BEST players will do, and not having interesting things to do besides dungeons or raiding. Hell if they just made interesting/good dungeons that alone might have been enough but over the years we started getting more hallways and straight line designs.
Tigole gets too much credit, a lot of the good shit in Vanilla had nothing to do with him, in fact he made a lot of shitty calls during development according to some of the ex-devs.
>quest givers/npc's could have unique dialogue depending on race/class/gender >lol remove it because quest text is boring, it's all about raiding
8 months ago
Anonymous
>>lol remove it because quest text is boring, it's all about raiding
Is that real?
8 months ago
Anonymous
According to david fried. A few of the ex-devs don't really like jeff, could just be bias or hurt fee fee's maybe. they all seem to praise metzen though so maybe not.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Wasn't metzen's only issue is he made thrall jesus basically?
8 months ago
Anonymous
>Made Thrall Jesus
Thrall was already Jesus before WC3.
Cataclysm was written by a different guy as Metzen was working primarily on Titan at that point.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Then was it that he self-inserted as Thrall? All I know about Metzen is he had some drama about him with Thrall. I was too busy having a sperg out about ghostcrawler fricking up PvP balance and making frost mages broken as shit to care about raiding and the lore
8 months ago
Anonymous
Probably the fact that they made an entire storyline revolve around Thrall's wedding when it had very little to no impact on the greater story
8 months ago
Anonymous
Is there any more notable development info?
8 months ago
Chris Metzen
>they all seem to praise metzen though
Chris Metzen
Hearthstone has always been some sort of silly alternate universe so he has a point. Unless you mean that Hearthstone in its entirety is a mistake, then sure
>warcraft when it was a warhammer ripoff >warcraft when it tries to be it's own thing
Blizzard has always been hacks and blizzcucks are braindead consoomers.
>Chris Metzen left
Except Chris was the one that started covering up all the females because he thought they were too sexual. This moronic crusade started when he had a daughter, his reasoning was "what would my 6 year old daughter think of this character?" ...which is fricking moronic because you don't teach your children to get their morals and values from fricking video games.
Tigol deleting anything that didn't have anything to do with raiding.
Hiring idiots that thought dumbing down an already casual game would attract more players
Removing the leveling experience that everyone bought the game for.
We had this thread already. Hope I answered everything. Make a new thread.
>Hiring idiots that thought dumbing down an already casual game would attract more players
How can you call the current state of WoW dumbed down? WoW has has nothing but moronic systems upon systems stacked on one another. We're currently at the state where if you banned addons no one would reasonably be able to do any of the higher difficulty raids. Vanilla, the most "dumbed down" version of the game has been the most popular iteration of WoW in recent history
>"We're currently at the state where if you banned addons no one would reasonably be able to do any of the higher difficulty raids."
Can you elaborate on this? I know about the existence of weakauras marking out raid mechanics, but I never decided to throw myself into WoW to find the nuances.
The WoW devs and the addon community have essentially been in an arms race with each other. Addons essentially trivialize entire fights via dbm and weakauras and the devs refused to ban said addons so they started creating encounters based on players using weakauras and dbm. It has reached a point where encounters are so fricking absurd that if you remove the player's ability to use these addons none of them would be able to reasonably do it because there's a world of difference in information processing on what the addons can do and what a human can do.
There have been mechanics in recent history that Blizzard has openly said were designed with the assumption people are using addons. At minimum you need BigWigs for timers because there's so much going on in a fight that half the mechanics aren't properly telegraphed. It is shit design and has driven off the midcore players that are good enough to raid, but also don't want to have to deal with configuring WeakAuras for more complex fights. The only players who exist now are the shit players who can barely do normal raid mechanics and the addicts who push mythic like it's a full time job.
Raids and m+ are the only hard parts of the game. Any overworld or leveling experience wise is easy. You are never in any kind of danger from pulling one too many mobs.
People complaining about the game being dumbed down are stupid, it was always a dumbed down MMO, that's why it was successful. The issue is that everything aside from "current patch" is entirely meaningless, even the expansion itself has become meaningless. The game isnt about leveling up and being a part of a big world on an adventure anymore. That's why the game sucks
I guess it's hard to describe. It's both convoluted, and brain-dead.
You just stack resources and burst non stop for every enemy. Never use utilities, sometimes use cooldowns. It's just tedious and time consuming busy work that never challenges you.
When I played a private wotlk server I would never describe what I was doing a "rotation" because I'm doing something new each moment for each enemy. But modern wow is repetition on rotation ad nauseum.
And yeah you need add-ons to be functional because it adds so many stupid ideas to the mix.
It's the worst of all worlds. Both annoying and complex, yet not rewarding or challenging.
This pretty much sums it up. There's a lot going on in any given fight, but it doesn't feel meaningful. Every CC is a glorified interrupt, and the M+ meta is to pull a bunch of shit, interrupt spells, and blow everything up with burst AoE while you dodge shit. Dungeons used to take time and, while not mechanically harder, were tuned in a way that every pull mattered and getting in over your head could easily cause a wipe at even five or so targets. Now, most pulls are minimum five targets, usually closer to ten. Some big pulls can cause a wipe, but it's so fast paced it doesn't matter.
>How can you call the current state of WoW dumbed down?
every class plays the exact same
every dungeon is played the exact same
any deviation from the meta is grounds for being removed from whatever group you are with
you WILL join your guild's discord or you will be removed
you will do what we say, as we say, or else
not to mention the myriad addons you are required to have installed if you have any hope of ever wanting to do endgame content. addons that by and large just play the game for you
>every class plays the exact same >every dungeon is played the exact same >any deviation from the meta is grounds for being removed from whatever group you are with >you WILL join your guild's discord or you will be removed >you will do what we say, as we say, or else
But enough about ZIV
Joke about the demon living in your head rent-free all you want, but the >any deviation from the meta I'd grounds for being removed
Is uniquely a WoW problem.
WoW is the most cancerous community in vidya, second only to LoL maybe.
The players. Just look at the abomination they turned classic into. Obviously Blizzard isn't blameless either but they mostly just gave the players what they want.
The entire endgame is now speedrunning dungeons with human goblins that scream at you if you aren't performing perfectly optimally. Why anyone on the dev team thinks this is fun remains a mystery, hopefully they figure it out before the game flatlines entirely.
I'm probably a minority opinion here on this, but I look forward to when Horde and Alliance can go to each other's cities and world PvP outside of war mode is non existent. and all content is designed with both factions working together.
World PvP relegated to war mode means world PvP is non-existent. If you prefer PvE, fine, but world PvP was one of the defining features of the peak period of the game
war mode world PvP has always been more fun than classic world PvP, for me at least.
classic world PvP was just ganking 90% of the time. I actually like having people who want to be PvPing engaging in PvP compared to just ganking lowbies
one of the best pvp experiences i've ever had was specifically because of ganking. this was during early classic when many players weren't 60 yet. I played an Undead Warlock on a RPPvP server, I think it was Deviate Delight. I was questing in Hillsbrad when some homosexual Nelf Druid 10 levels higher than everyone else kept ganking us in cat mode. People got pissed and everyone started complaining in their guild chats, eventually attracting the attention of higher level players. After about an hour a massive group of 20 level 60's were all gathered in Tarren Mill and they fricking rolled out to the Hillsbrad fields to hunt this one fricking druid down. Turns out the Alliance had been amassing their own crew, so a massive fricking battle occurred where they initially started pushing us back to Tarren Mill. After another hour we managed to push them back to Southshore. It was fricking incredible. For about 2 to 3 hours I stopped all my questing and leveling and was just engaged in this massive battle with my comrades all over one little ganking elf cat shithead.
Classic revealed decisively that it was raids and the devs focusing on them at the cost of the rest of the game
Leveling experience aged perfectly, raiding was a shitshow
TBC had smaller raids and less wpvp which made content less inclusive of casuals and players of low skill level while also making higher skilled players less satisfied in higher skill groups. It also dropped the same year as halo3 and cod4 which made consoles the new standard for casuals to socialize online with. WoW had such a powerful grip in the past because it was the AAA more socially acceptable alternative to things like runescape and club penguin which were all popular because meeting up online was all something people wanted to do but it was still in it's juvenile stage. WoW looked decent but was shitty enough it could run on anyone's home pc and when only the base game existed players took a much different approach towards playing.
This was a non issue for a while because WotLK was good enough it regained part of it's previous audience but the cracks were already there. By Cata/MoP the main playerbase of regulars consisted mostly of people who stilled played out of habit/obligation and new bloods that hopped on the train late because the general opinion of mmos had shifted to become nostalgic/rose-tinted and WoW was the healthiest old one out of like everquest etc.
WoW 1 >Vanilla + TBC + Wrath >some references here and there, but mostly just a solid MMORPG about exploring and questing in a big world, that had some camp and followed the "rule of cool"
WoW 2 >Cata + MoP + WoD >pop culture references, furry pandering (worgen and pandas), complete removal of the old world, focus shifted dramatically on endgame
WoW 3 >Legion + BfA + SL >More pandering, artstyle changed more towards "cutesie" and soft designs, retconning the old lore more than ever before, girlboss bullshit everywhere, SYSTEMS SYSTEMS SYSTEMS, endgame is everything and leveling is just a chore
WoW 4 >Dragonflight and the next few expacs >WoW 3 except it's gay now
WoW was dead the moment they fired all the devs right after release. The game was then taken over by completely different people who fricked the original vision of WoW, see Burning Crusade (new areas that are in a different dimension, not connected to the rest of the world). So fricking glad I never played this shit past 2005.
>they fired all the devs right after release
That was a mindnumbingly stupid decision in retrospect. Fire the guys that just made you a billion dollar franchise from scratch. Management in the game industry is rock bottom poor by other industry standards
Lack of accessible endgame content
The entire game being you doing your daily chores
Useless professions
Lack of more mage tower/proving grounds content
Shit lore
All MMOs who cater to hardcore fans and have finite resources to go around will ultimately degenerate into whatever the frick you want to call modern day World of Warcraft. Crazy to think the gearscore thing really took off all the way back in WotLK.
It only degenerates into hardcore esports gatekeeping simulator 2023 if the devs allow it to. Unfortunately the game director is from 'elitist jerks' and probably thinks this is all fine
what killed WoW was Heroic dungeons in TBC. It widened the gap between the leveling experience and endgame. During Vanilla, you would work on pre-BiS around level 55/56 until level 60 and could go straight into raiding.
Then with TBC, you had to do Heroic dungeons first. On top of that there were the attunements which sucked dick.
Wrath actually made endgame slightly easier by getting rid of most attunements, but still had the Heroic Dungeons. This shit only got worse and worse as you went on.
Nowadays, leveling itself doesn't even matter. all the gear from leveling is pointless. Leveling is just an obstacle to overcome to get to the real game. And then you have to do heroic dungeons or get catchup gear to finally get into low M+ key groups and LFR so you can start working on your vault loot every week so that in a few months you'll have enough gear to maybe pug a normal raid (if you're meta that is)
Heroic dungeons in TBC were fine compared to M+. There was little to no gatekeeping (I don't remember any at all), you could get into a group straight after dinging level cap, there wasn't a timer or pressure to not frick up, the environment was pretty relaxed and people chatted freely in party chat. It was another world, a way better world
Garrosh was, everyone else wasn't
There is still no explanation as to why that dragon helped him out or why they sent him to alternate universe Draenor
Everything about his character in MoP was the exact opposite of what they set up from tbc - cataclysm though. The fact he was against using corrupting influences for power to just straight up sucking sha dick alone was a joke.
cata
Activision
No, it was the coomers. How dare you blame a company?
this.
its surely took time and wasn't obvious at first but slowly and surely we ended up with what we have today, which is a completely different company that deserves to die out.
spbp
i still remember all the bullshit they were spewing around the buyout during wotlk, but we all knew what was coming
The correct answer
The hungering israelite Kotick and his company feasted on Blizzard and ate them from the inside out
The devs doubling down on catering to hardcore players and the concurrent assassination of the game's lore and setting which devastated the feeling of the game.
>The devs doubling down on catering to hardcore players
This. The game was doomed the second they hired on a pair of EQ poopsockers as designers.
uh so from the start?
Putting too much dev time into content like 5% AT BEST players will do, and not having interesting things to do besides dungeons or raiding. Hell if they just made interesting/good dungeons that alone might have been enough but over the years we started getting more hallways and straight line designs.
>uh so from the start?
TBC or possibly late vanilla. In general once they decided to do an expansion the seeds of doom were planted.
Nah Kaplan was in a huge EQ guild and it was one of the reasons he joined Blizzard and was a quest and raid designer on vanilla.
Tigole gets too much credit, a lot of the good shit in Vanilla had nothing to do with him, in fact he made a lot of shitty calls during development according to some of the ex-devs.
>quest givers/npc's could have unique dialogue depending on race/class/gender
>lol remove it because quest text is boring, it's all about raiding
>>lol remove it because quest text is boring, it's all about raiding
Is that real?
According to david fried. A few of the ex-devs don't really like jeff, could just be bias or hurt fee fee's maybe. they all seem to praise metzen though so maybe not.
Wasn't metzen's only issue is he made thrall jesus basically?
>Made Thrall Jesus
Thrall was already Jesus before WC3.
Cataclysm was written by a different guy as Metzen was working primarily on Titan at that point.
Then was it that he self-inserted as Thrall? All I know about Metzen is he had some drama about him with Thrall. I was too busy having a sperg out about ghostcrawler fricking up PvP balance and making frost mages broken as shit to care about raiding and the lore
Probably the fact that they made an entire storyline revolve around Thrall's wedding when it had very little to no impact on the greater story
Is there any more notable development info?
>they all seem to praise metzen though
Chris Metzen
Chris Metzen left
That image pretty much sums it up, Warcraft was a brutal war fantasy and now it is a gay hugbox.
this just sums up so well in one sentence everything that is wrong with the warcraft franchise nowdays
This just sums up so well in one sentence how well that other sentence sums up so well what that image sums up about the Warcraft franchise.
To be fair, the image in the right is from Hearthstone which is its whole thing but yeah, basically.
>Hearthstone
barely a factor, have you fricking seen drakthyr or vulpera?
>THAT'S FROM HEARTHSTONE, IT'S MEANT TO BE LIKE THAT!!!!!
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
ayo new cope has arrived
Hearthstone has always been some sort of silly alternate universe so he has a point. Unless you mean that Hearthstone in its entirety is a mistake, then sure
Does everything need to develop into a fricking argument for you? He didn't even disagree with the post he was replying to.
>warcraft when it was a warhammer ripoff
>warcraft when it tries to be it's own thing
Blizzard has always been hacks and blizzcucks are braindead consoomers.
>Chris Metzen left
Except Chris was the one that started covering up all the females because he thought they were too sexual. This moronic crusade started when he had a daughter, his reasoning was "what would my 6 year old daughter think of this character?" ...which is fricking moronic because you don't teach your children to get their morals and values from fricking video games.
Tigol deleting anything that didn't have anything to do with raiding.
Hiring idiots that thought dumbing down an already casual game would attract more players
Removing the leveling experience that everyone bought the game for.
We had this thread already. Hope I answered everything. Make a new thread.
>Hiring idiots that thought dumbing down an already casual game would attract more players
How can you call the current state of WoW dumbed down? WoW has has nothing but moronic systems upon systems stacked on one another. We're currently at the state where if you banned addons no one would reasonably be able to do any of the higher difficulty raids. Vanilla, the most "dumbed down" version of the game has been the most popular iteration of WoW in recent history
>"We're currently at the state where if you banned addons no one would reasonably be able to do any of the higher difficulty raids."
Can you elaborate on this? I know about the existence of weakauras marking out raid mechanics, but I never decided to throw myself into WoW to find the nuances.
The WoW devs and the addon community have essentially been in an arms race with each other. Addons essentially trivialize entire fights via dbm and weakauras and the devs refused to ban said addons so they started creating encounters based on players using weakauras and dbm. It has reached a point where encounters are so fricking absurd that if you remove the player's ability to use these addons none of them would be able to reasonably do it because there's a world of difference in information processing on what the addons can do and what a human can do.
There have been mechanics in recent history that Blizzard has openly said were designed with the assumption people are using addons. At minimum you need BigWigs for timers because there's so much going on in a fight that half the mechanics aren't properly telegraphed. It is shit design and has driven off the midcore players that are good enough to raid, but also don't want to have to deal with configuring WeakAuras for more complex fights. The only players who exist now are the shit players who can barely do normal raid mechanics and the addicts who push mythic like it's a full time job.
Raids and m+ are the only hard parts of the game. Any overworld or leveling experience wise is easy. You are never in any kind of danger from pulling one too many mobs.
People complaining about the game being dumbed down are stupid, it was always a dumbed down MMO, that's why it was successful. The issue is that everything aside from "current patch" is entirely meaningless, even the expansion itself has become meaningless. The game isnt about leveling up and being a part of a big world on an adventure anymore. That's why the game sucks
I guess it's hard to describe. It's both convoluted, and brain-dead.
You just stack resources and burst non stop for every enemy. Never use utilities, sometimes use cooldowns. It's just tedious and time consuming busy work that never challenges you.
When I played a private wotlk server I would never describe what I was doing a "rotation" because I'm doing something new each moment for each enemy. But modern wow is repetition on rotation ad nauseum.
And yeah you need add-ons to be functional because it adds so many stupid ideas to the mix.
It's the worst of all worlds. Both annoying and complex, yet not rewarding or challenging.
This pretty much sums it up. There's a lot going on in any given fight, but it doesn't feel meaningful. Every CC is a glorified interrupt, and the M+ meta is to pull a bunch of shit, interrupt spells, and blow everything up with burst AoE while you dodge shit. Dungeons used to take time and, while not mechanically harder, were tuned in a way that every pull mattered and getting in over your head could easily cause a wipe at even five or so targets. Now, most pulls are minimum five targets, usually closer to ten. Some big pulls can cause a wipe, but it's so fast paced it doesn't matter.
>How can you call the current state of WoW dumbed down?
every class plays the exact same
every dungeon is played the exact same
any deviation from the meta is grounds for being removed from whatever group you are with
you WILL join your guild's discord or you will be removed
you will do what we say, as we say, or else
not to mention the myriad addons you are required to have installed if you have any hope of ever wanting to do endgame content. addons that by and large just play the game for you
thanks, tigole, you fricking Black person
>every class plays the exact same
>every dungeon is played the exact same
>any deviation from the meta is grounds for being removed from whatever group you are with
>you WILL join your guild's discord or you will be removed
>you will do what we say, as we say, or else
But enough about ZIV
Joke about the demon living in your head rent-free all you want, but the
>any deviation from the meta I'd grounds for being removed
Is uniquely a WoW problem.
WoW is the most cancerous community in vidya, second only to LoL maybe.
Holy fricking obsessed.
XIV truly won
>WoW has has nothing but moronic systems upon systems stacked on one another.
Systems of loot box opening and make-number-go-upening
Wrath of the Lich King
women
I stopped playing when there was nothing to do but raid.
dead elf sexo
there's no singular cause, it's a series of interconnected bad descisions
p2w bullshit
shit(tier) writing
mechanics dumbed down to the point where moronic toddlers can play
pozzed staff
etc, etc
Greed (WoW tokens).
Blizzard
The players. Just look at the abomination they turned classic into. Obviously Blizzard isn't blameless either but they mostly just gave the players what they want.
me growing up and realizinf paying to play a game like its my internet bill is moronic
M+
The entire endgame is now speedrunning dungeons with human goblins that scream at you if you aren't performing perfectly optimally. Why anyone on the dev team thinks this is fun remains a mystery, hopefully they figure it out before the game flatlines entirely.
I'm probably a minority opinion here on this, but I look forward to when Horde and Alliance can go to each other's cities and world PvP outside of war mode is non existent. and all content is designed with both factions working together.
World PvP relegated to war mode means world PvP is non-existent. If you prefer PvE, fine, but world PvP was one of the defining features of the peak period of the game
war mode world PvP has always been more fun than classic world PvP, for me at least.
classic world PvP was just ganking 90% of the time. I actually like having people who want to be PvPing engaging in PvP compared to just ganking lowbies
one of the best pvp experiences i've ever had was specifically because of ganking. this was during early classic when many players weren't 60 yet. I played an Undead Warlock on a RPPvP server, I think it was Deviate Delight. I was questing in Hillsbrad when some homosexual Nelf Druid 10 levels higher than everyone else kept ganking us in cat mode. People got pissed and everyone started complaining in their guild chats, eventually attracting the attention of higher level players. After about an hour a massive group of 20 level 60's were all gathered in Tarren Mill and they fricking rolled out to the Hillsbrad fields to hunt this one fricking druid down. Turns out the Alliance had been amassing their own crew, so a massive fricking battle occurred where they initially started pushing us back to Tarren Mill. After another hour we managed to push them back to Southshore. It was fricking incredible. For about 2 to 3 hours I stopped all my questing and leveling and was just engaged in this massive battle with my comrades all over one little ganking elf cat shithead.
Not like it matters at this point, the game's lore is fricking destroyed and held together with hopes and dreams
honestly better warcraft lore than good fantasy settings, like conan.
gosh can you imagine a modern onions conan for the masses? I do, and I do not like it.
But I also did not like what they were doing when wow was just beign annunced and I never played it so...
Classic revealed decisively that it was raids and the devs focusing on them at the cost of the rest of the game
Leveling experience aged perfectly, raiding was a shitshow
A dark day in orc history
Twitter gnomes
TBC had smaller raids and less wpvp which made content less inclusive of casuals and players of low skill level while also making higher skilled players less satisfied in higher skill groups. It also dropped the same year as halo3 and cod4 which made consoles the new standard for casuals to socialize online with. WoW had such a powerful grip in the past because it was the AAA more socially acceptable alternative to things like runescape and club penguin which were all popular because meeting up online was all something people wanted to do but it was still in it's juvenile stage. WoW looked decent but was shitty enough it could run on anyone's home pc and when only the base game existed players took a much different approach towards playing.
This was a non issue for a while because WotLK was good enough it regained part of it's previous audience but the cracks were already there. By Cata/MoP the main playerbase of regulars consisted mostly of people who stilled played out of habit/obligation and new bloods that hopped on the train late because the general opinion of mmos had shifted to become nostalgic/rose-tinted and WoW was the healthiest old one out of like everquest etc.
WoW died once because of WoD. But then, since Legion, WoW has reborn. And Dragonflight is peak WoW again.
>Dragonflight is peak WoW again.
You have to stop this lying bullshit
Direction of the game post Vanilla quickly became about raid logging. Also normies and Blizzard pandering to them.
Many things, the biggest one was catering exclusively to hardcore raiders and giving casual players sloppy seconds which started in WOTLK
tbc
WoW 1
>Vanilla + TBC + Wrath
>some references here and there, but mostly just a solid MMORPG about exploring and questing in a big world, that had some camp and followed the "rule of cool"
WoW 2
>Cata + MoP + WoD
>pop culture references, furry pandering (worgen and pandas), complete removal of the old world, focus shifted dramatically on endgame
WoW 3
>Legion + BfA + SL
>More pandering, artstyle changed more towards "cutesie" and soft designs, retconning the old lore more than ever before, girlboss bullshit everywhere, SYSTEMS SYSTEMS SYSTEMS, endgame is everything and leveling is just a chore
WoW 4
>Dragonflight and the next few expacs
>WoW 3 except it's gay now
WoW was dead the moment they fired all the devs right after release. The game was then taken over by completely different people who fricked the original vision of WoW, see Burning Crusade (new areas that are in a different dimension, not connected to the rest of the world). So fricking glad I never played this shit past 2005.
>they fired all the devs right after release
That was a mindnumbingly stupid decision in retrospect. Fire the guys that just made you a billion dollar franchise from scratch. Management in the game industry is rock bottom poor by other industry standards
leftist
Lack of accessible endgame content
The entire game being you doing your daily chores
Useless professions
Lack of more mage tower/proving grounds content
Shit lore
All MMOs who cater to hardcore fans and have finite resources to go around will ultimately degenerate into whatever the frick you want to call modern day World of Warcraft. Crazy to think the gearscore thing really took off all the way back in WotLK.
It only degenerates into hardcore esports gatekeeping simulator 2023 if the devs allow it to. Unfortunately the game director is from 'elitist jerks' and probably thinks this is all fine
expansions. it needed a real sequel over a decade ago
what killed WoW was Heroic dungeons in TBC. It widened the gap between the leveling experience and endgame. During Vanilla, you would work on pre-BiS around level 55/56 until level 60 and could go straight into raiding.
Then with TBC, you had to do Heroic dungeons first. On top of that there were the attunements which sucked dick.
Wrath actually made endgame slightly easier by getting rid of most attunements, but still had the Heroic Dungeons. This shit only got worse and worse as you went on.
Nowadays, leveling itself doesn't even matter. all the gear from leveling is pointless. Leveling is just an obstacle to overcome to get to the real game. And then you have to do heroic dungeons or get catchup gear to finally get into low M+ key groups and LFR so you can start working on your vault loot every week so that in a few months you'll have enough gear to maybe pug a normal raid (if you're meta that is)
Heroic dungeons in TBC were fine compared to M+. There was little to no gatekeeping (I don't remember any at all), you could get into a group straight after dinging level cap, there wasn't a timer or pressure to not frick up, the environment was pretty relaxed and people chatted freely in party chat. It was another world, a way better world
>Heroic dungeons in TBC were fine compared to M+.
and the little snowball at the top of the hill was fine compared to the avalanche at the bottom
I miss the old Garrosh/Horde
chris metzen
>filename isn't Chris Metzen
>name field isn't Chris Metzen
>options field isn't Chris Metzen
2/10 apply yourself.
>image assumes that garrosh was well written in MoP and didn't do a total 180 in his beliefs into generic villain needed for the plot
Garrosh was, everyone else wasn't
There is still no explanation as to why that dragon helped him out or why they sent him to alternate universe Draenor
Everything about his character in MoP was the exact opposite of what they set up from tbc - cataclysm though. The fact he was against using corrupting influences for power to just straight up sucking sha dick alone was a joke.
180 is better than a 360
israeli feminism
Still alive and kicking babyy. Trannies in tears. Sad!