What MMORPG has the most soul in 2023?
>Must have an active community (not only existing at level cap)
>Must ACTUALLY be MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, not just people existing in the same space as you
>Must have soul NOW, not in some unconfirmable distant long gone golden age that only exists in your mind now if it ever had one
And so I'm not major gay, I'll post my nominees:
>City of Heroes private servers
>Warhammer Online: Return of Reckoning
kek, i mean, kek
its all mobile games now, Undawn for example
I can't believe I'm saying this, but unironically Elder Scrolls Online.
>character models look like shit
>half the menus redirect you to an overpriced cash shop
rough
oh yeah because warhammer online has beautiful models and effects
this entire thread is gay and everyones opinons are trash, kys and stop playing games youre not good at it
>whole gameplay based around the broken cancelling mechanic
I, and probably a good amount of other people, would play ESO if they'd overhaul the combat. The current system is so fricking stale it becomes boring as shit in a few hours.
I’d play ESO if it had actual PvP.
>best house in the game is $150 plus tip
Oh yeah, nevermind…
It's not soul, it's money grubbing laziness
flash games and shovelware have more polish than TESO
I don't like FFXIV but I'd say it has more SOUL than its competitors
Not really an MMO. It's a visual novel with the occasional match-making dungeon delve. I will admit though that the dungeons are fun, and if it was 100% dungeons I'd be playing it but that wouldn't make it any more of an MMO than Team Fortress.
I'm curious, by your definitions, what would make WOW an MMO and FFXIV not? if you even consider WOW to be an MMO
Classic WoW was definitely an MMO.
Modern WoW is arguably not. While there's open world stuff it's no more interactive anymore than playing a Diablo-like. There's no need to group, communicate, compete, or engage in PvP unless you basically sign a contract saying you want to PvP right now which makes it no different from a battleground.
For me one of the big selling points of wow was the fact that other than continental barriers, every zone was seamless, so you f course that went out the window.
Every expansion is seamless aside from Cata and Shadowlands, but I still don't consider it a proper MMO anymore.
I don't buy it, these systems that were made in order to bypass socialization in exchange for convenience are bad, I agree, but that is in no way what defines an MMO. Between the big theme-park MMOs FFXIV is the one that strives the most to be an actual virtual world with social content and roleplay systems, which I'd argue that is the closest a theme park MMO can get to the genre's roots.
Socialization is incredibly important in an MMORPG. Most importantly socialization that puts people at odds with each other (be it PvP, economics, grinding spots, etc) or forces them to team up against an obstacle out in the world. Otherwise you're left with what is basically VR Chat.
>I can't gank lowbies and ruin their day so it's not an mmo
Most of what you do happens in the open-world with a ton of people? Yes = MMO. No = Not MMO.
Current WoW is whatever the frick Monster Hunter is, a "co-op RPG" or something. Final Fantasy 14 is barely even co-op, since it's mostly story and you can't play that with other people.
There's enough people around and activities for you to just mingle with people and never actually pla ythe game.
FF14 is the very definition of what a mmo is.
PvP is not needed for a game to be a MMO.
Now where's the RPG part of the MMO, assuming your claims about XIV are right (that standing around with people makes an MMO).
Also PvP is not needed, but it does add to the massive multiplayer part if you can actually engage people out in the world like that. Any form of meaningful interaction with other players adds to how much of a proper MMORPG a game is.
Define role playing. You play the role of the warrior of light fighting through the msq in whatever job you prefer and when you're done with that you can hang out with other players fishing, building a house, crafting furniture, doing homosexual erp. It's an rpg. You just don't like that you can't pick stats even though you would just look up a guide and do the same build as everyone else to stay meta and not get excluded from raid content for having an unviable build.
you observe the role of the warrior of light, in no way do you get to play because that would imply interaction or decision making
>Anything that's not a pen and paper isn't an rpg
Shut up
no, anything where you don’t get to assume a role isn’t a role playing game
assuming a role is more than taking control of a character, or do you think legend of zelda games are rpgs?
You assume the role. You just don't like that you don't get to make fake choices with zero consequences. Go work on your DND campaign.
in what way do you assume the role of warrior of light in ffxiv that you don’t assume the role of hero of time in oot?
is oot an rpg?
Not him but you play the role of Link, the Hero of Time; so yes.
lol
I guess fifa and madden are rpgs too because you assume the role of a sportsman
>because you assume the role of a sportsman
Yes. In the latest NBA game you can even have sex with your gay lover.
No. Because the focus isn't the story. You're playing individual games
Go play ass effect for your meaningless choices.
Storylines are central to sports
>Go play ass effect for your meaningless choices
You know, ignoring the starchild in the room that series did alright on choices meaning something.
Yes. Are you moronic?
By that definition almost every single JRPG isn't an RPG either.
I mean there’s a reason rpg and jrpg are acknowledged as two separate genres
>t. person that has never done savage or ultimate content
Damn sounds like some instanced shit with guilds which is no different than playing Vermintide. Not an MMO.
95% of ffxiv playerbase dont do savage or ultimate, wtf u talking about?
that's because casual troonys refuse to even attempt harder content than babymode dungeons
eureka/bozja made the game feel like a proper mmo and because of turbocasuals we didnt get it this expac, I wish they would all go back to second life
I only played Bozja and that was kinda designed in a fricking moronic backwards way despite having sparks of genius locked behind it.
Mettle system is cool. Grinding specific spots for specific drops and powers that actively gets faster/easier with a party is great.
But then the most rewarding shit is just zerging the Fates almost all the time.
On top of that the zone was extremely ugly, had a terrible fricking layout and was generally unwelcoming because of that. It was also too small, and splitting off Zadnor was a bad idea.
I feel like you'd have to design a whole expansions worth of game world to truly sell this kind of design to people. Its not good enough as a side thing. And they might as well try, because as is the world in FF14 is fricking shit and dead. But I guess its easier to just tell some environmental artists to shart out an empty square map and then force the players to interact with it exactly once in the epic cinematic MSQ.
You didn't get it this expansion because they pulled the devs off XIV to work on XVI.
EW literally has it's MSQ end at 6.0 instead of 6.3 an expansion first combo breaker and things like Eureka and Bozja take actual manpower and effort to produce which they absolutely would not have.
That boss is bullshit, the castbar doesn't ask you for a prime number but "indivisible"
>Not really an MMO.
Didn't read the rest. You're wrong.
Theres always this guy who recommends the thing that op asked specifically to not be recommended
ffxiv is a watered down version of 2010 wow that somehow plays and looks worse.
its the least soulful mmo I have ever played.
completely dead and pointless world, no cool ways to interact with anything. all job abilities are just centered around combat in the most boring way possible.
its fundamentally anti social too. they have fricking PVP modes you cant queue up for with friends and in said modes you cant even communicate with other players.
you lost wowbuck
meds
wowtroony detected
>SOUL
One of the most soulless MMOs to date. You cant quest as a party, the world is a diorama for the MSQ and the overuse of matchmaking and now npcs effectively makes it feel like a single player. The very little soul there is in XIV is buried within the music.
>not just people existing in the same space as you
Aren't all mmos like this unless you're in a clan fighting with other clans in pvp?
Nah, some you have to group up with people and people talk to each other, or people get into world PvP fights.
okay but you act like downtime never existed in mmos. dial up era mmos were 90% downtime because you were waiting for server packets to arrive.
mmos used to be multiplayer games that let you interact with other players beyond standing around in a city.
Ok boomer
>What MMORPG has the most soul in 2023?
>Must have an active community (not only existing at level cap)
>Must ACTUALLY be MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, not just people existing in the same space as you
>Must have soul NOW, not in some unconfirmable distant long gone golden age that only exists in your mind now if it ever had one
sounds like you're describing old wow, that doesn't exist anymore. Not only because of technology, but we have changed too.
What's the consensus on V Rising lads?
not an MMO?
It's a great pseudo-MMO. You can play it with PvP or without. Make your own custom server the way you want it. You can also play it offline by yourself and the PvE alone is fun.
Most MMOgays unfortunately have been brainwashed into hating any kind of PvP after years of playing themepark trash like WoW.
Amazing game, wish the devs hadn't abandoned battlerite and bloodline champions though.
All mmos are soulless you fricking gays
hit me with that real soul fren
Minecraft
Fortnite
VR Chat
Among Us
Fall Guys
MMO's are fricking gay and soulless. That being said, I'm enjoying LOTRO.
OSRS
Unironically not an MMO. It's a mobile-style MMO-like.
>OSRS not an mmo
what the frick is this zoomer shit
>Unironically not an MMO.
moron. Wrong.
"Mobile" didn't even exist for a fricking decade after RuneScape was made. It's literally been designed exclusively for desktop play for the first two and a half decades of its existence.
It kinda is. 90% of the content is afk shit.
You mean BotScape.
Probably OSRS. It still allows for some crazy shit.
i played most mmorpgs, and have like 5k++ hours on WoW and Lineage 2
I would say WoW vanilla/classic had soul, was fun to play with everyone around, when i started playing wow was also really fun, Lineage 2 sucked my life when i was a kid, ffxiv always felt more like a singleplay game, i barely talk to people and the community is annoying sometimes, i can go 1 full month without talking with people in ffxiv but if i go back to wow im talking and joking around
>new world
trash, i played non stop for 1 month with friends, everyday in discord with people and still dropped the game bc it was trash
>black desert
grinding and p2w
>lost ark
feels like a fricking job
>elder scrolls
never gave a chance
nowdays i just play ffxiv bc i can go 1 month without playing and dont feel like im behind
Black Desert Online is such a missed opportunity. I like everything but actually playing the damn thing because it's so PvP-centric. If only there was more to do beyond life skills and the most obvious mob grinding I've ever seen with zero effort put into hiding it.
if YOu didn't play BDO during beta and the first year you never played BDO.
>no value pack
>no cron melting
>can't sell cash items
>can't buy enhancement materials from store
>+15 was the highest you could go, everyone could get it easily, everyone had equal gear outside accs
>awakenings weren't super OP and you had to actual aim skills
>classes all had their own identity and felt different, instead of having ranged aoes and teleports
and the largest of all
>1% exp loss on pvp death outside of guild wars
>this encouraged group grinding to maintain safety
>it sparked actual conflict at grinding spots
>grinding spots were limited so if you wanted one you had to fight for it
>my guild in particular had assassin groups that would seek out people in rival guilds and target them while they grinded helping us stay on top of the rankings
>this in turn got that guild to form alliances with other guilds to help fight back against us
>and so on
I remember on launch ghille suits being the main issue with p2w.
How naive we were at the time.
don't worry i'll reply to you
there's something fricking wrong with you for putting so many hours into such shit games
OSRS.
Now stop playing MMOs in 2023. They're all bad.
osrs sucks ass
B*sed
EVE, unironically.
>Despite the prevalence of massive null alliances you can still find small, tight-knit corps where you matter as an individual. Nothing comfier than hanging out with 30+ year old boomers on Teamspeak while dunking on the blob
>Also has massive battles if you just want to see a spectacle. Don't recommend them but if any MMO deserves the "Massively Multiplayer" description it's undoubtedly EVE
>Soul is admittedly vastly reduced from the golden age but the game still has its moments. Definitely need a good group though, this is not a game for solo players.
EVE is almost a textbook of integral elements MMORPGs should have, but it's precisely that which puts off people. Fundamentally they don't really want to get invested in game's community beyond "have players to group with or engage in PvP with". People don't understand DRAMA is lifeblood of every community and what brings it to life - when you care enough to get emotional responses out of it.
People do want to get into it. But it's about as interactive as OSRS.
this however the developers are actively working against any meaningful development of the game and are killing it even worse than bungie is with destiny 2. Eve is the only game that I have to actively resist the constant urge to start up again but if you don't have the time to no-life it you'll be missing out on a lot of experiences (unless you have someone to bankroll you)
Out of the ones still active these days? Probably Dofus i would say. It's an odd outlier in everything, which gives it a lot more soul than the common slop in your image. The MMORPG Genre is dead though honestly.
XIV is the only game where I can be my true self :3
You must be such a disappointment to your father on so many levels.
>In 2023
Why are you in a thread about retro MMOs played on private servers if you don't understand what private servers are?
There's no private servers like that
And this isn't a retro thread
Is there a way to still play this? I remember playing it as a teenager and really liking it.
This is the most popular private server. Apparently it sometimes reaches up towards 1-2k during primetime
https://eden-daoc.net/home
The meta in MMOs now is releasing early access and players perpetually sampling new content, but the game never actually releasing 1.0 officially.
Ashes is fairly successful with this model
>What MMORPG has the most soul in 2023?
Unfortunately it's classic WoW, which is insane, because no MMO has topped a 20 year old game.
OK zoomer
I am 32 years old. I played WoW in 2004 on my ADSL/ISDN connections.
Literal child
Go back to twitter
>Never played Ragnarok online
You're right. No MMO has ever topped this 20 year old game. homosexual zoomer.
>homosexual zoomer.
See
Also, Ragnarok Online was fricking garbage for the time it was out. Asheron's Call, Everquest, Anarchy Online, DAoC and Runescape were all out prior to Ragnarok Online.
The year after Ragnarok Online came out, there were also games such as EVE, Lineage 2, MapleStory, Shadowbane and SWG. All of these would also take a fricking dump on Ragnarok Online.
don’t forget habbo hotel
Shit opinion from a shit baby
Says the guy who unironically played a 2.5D isometric weeb game filled with maximum grind and absolutely no skill required for anything.
>Absolutely no skill required
It's probably the only MMO that actually required real team work and didn't have tab targeting or quest markers. Being allergic to grind is what killed the MMO genre.
Like I said, you're a homosexual shit baby zoomer. You've probably got a Funko pop collection and cross post on Reddit.
>Like I said, you're a homosexual shit baby zoomer. You've probably got a Funko pop collection and cross post on Reddit.
You are literally defending a shitty ass weeb game. You're probably unironically a big anime fan too.
Imagine being on fricking Ganker trying to talk shit about anime. You dumb coon do you realize you are unironically on a website by anime fans for anime fans? Have a look at the catalog. Over half the threads are just anime images. Get the frick off my Chinese cartoon appreciation forum, c**t.
Go to Ganker you seething low IQ mutt. Anyone who is genuinely into anime has a juvenile mind that never developed. You are perpetually stuck being 15 year sold mentally.
I'm sure you only enjoy high IQ video games, like The Elder Scrolls and The Last of Us.
Black person opinion. You're on the wrong site.
You are on the wrong board. Go back to Ganker and resume watching your generic-shonen-drama-intended-for-highschool-boys-anime#3812781.
Black person opinion. All boards are anime boards. You're on the wrong site. Reddit might unironically be more your speed.
>Reddit might unironically be more your speed.
You are aware that reddit LOVES anime, right? You love the same animes that reddit loves. Do you not understand that?
Reddit loves water too. Tongue my anus, Black person.
anime is normalhomosexualry
stay in your containment or cease spreading cancer
>All boards are anime boards
This is why everyone hates you anime gays.
And yet you post on Ganker. Mother fricking 4 CHAN. 4 channel.
You are a little baby with baby-like taste, as expected. Opinion discarded.
You're in a thread about MMO talking about how you want the game to play itself but think that makes you skilled. Uninstall life.
>Ragnarok Online was fricking garbage for the time it was out
negative. RO mogged all of these and is remembered fondly to this day.
>RO mogged all of these
No, it did not. Most of the other MMOs I just mentioned have been regarded as classics and staples of the MMO genre. Meanwhile no one has ever brought up Ragnarok Online as a classic.
lol
>lol
Great counterpoint. You have surely won this discussion now. Why don't you give me 3 reasons why you think Ragnarok Online was better than the other MMOs I mentioned?
you are delusional man Im not gonna waste time on you.
LMA fricking O
>not a single argument
The argument is that you're actually moronic.
Go create a thread with just the logo for any of those games and a thread with the logo for Ragnarok. The other threads will slide instantly. The Ragnarok thread will reach the bump limit. Ragnarok is absolutely a classic by all metrics and arguing otherwise is just brain dead.
>not a single argument again
You are really proving that Ragnarok Online players were low IQ morons. That also explains why it was and still is so popular in third world countries.
>RO isn't popular
>Actually it's still popular just not in places I like
Suck my dick, from America. I bet you're actually a thirdie yourself.
>I bet you're actually a thirdie yourself
Did you really resort to "no u"? I'm from Denmark, if you really want to know.
Irrelevant country. At least the hue monkeys in Brazil have something to claim on the international stage. Don't talk shit about other countries when your country hasn't been relevant in over a century.
its known for being filled with onions Black folk tbh.
>Irrelevant country
I would rather be "irrelevant" and have a 95% white population where everyone is thriving, than live in a "relevant" country like USA where you're approaching 50% non-whites in the next 5 years.
You are going to be white, and be a minority, in your own country. How does that make you feel? Your "empire" is crumbling hard and fast.
Your neighbors are actively having race riots, an energy crisis, mass third world migration, and an active invasion. All of that happening within 500 miles of Denmark. You'll be a majority Arabic Russian speaking country within the decade.
talk about video games, MMOs specifically you fricking homosexuals
Ragnarok is the greatest MMORPG of all time and the only other game to take that design philosophy was elden ring.
>Big open world
>Players are free to explore
>No hand holding quest markers
>Infinite grind
>Fashion™
Ultima Online beats Ragnarok in every single way and fashion. And it did it 5 years before Ragnarok released.
To basically no acclaim. Boomer game. I don't doubt it was good. Just not the same.
>All of that happening within 500 miles of Denmark
So? It's not my problem and it won't be either.
>You'll be a majority Arabic Russian speaking country within the decade
We literally have one of the strictest immigration policies, only bested by Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Luxembourg, if I remember correctly. We have seen what's happening in Sweden and Germany, both which are directly next to us, and all of our politicians are in full agreement that we must never become like that. Even the politicians that usually disagree, fully agree on this.
Take it to /misc/.
>met my first gf in RO
>flew to the UK and we took each other's virginity
>flew to Ireland to meet up with guildies
>would come on and spend the entire day just chilling in Payon caves or outside Louyang talking with friends and randoms
>would find a spot to sit despite just being a regular ass knight, always a crowd would form around me to chat
Man those were some nice times and the music was always chill as frick. Can never bring that level of community back.
Yeah that feel is gone because the MMO genre is dead. It's part of why the "trapped in an MMO" genre turned into Isekai. Zoomies can't relate to that comfy feel because no games force you to build a community to progress.
FFXI on horizon was fricking soul-kino
>was
We're talking about in 2023
Is pic related any good?
Thanks, sad to hear that.
>t. boomer who actually liked PSO on the Dreamcast and was hoping to feel a little of that again
I heard the new genesis rework is terrible but you can play the base PSO2 version through the story and its a bit like PSO, just way crazier on the action. like imagine PSO maps but you are dante from the devil may cry series.
nobody seems to explain why new genesis is bad? they just say it is. and its always american related issues rather than talking about japanese server ones?
Take a look at the combat of both games and you'll understand. Sega can unfrick it if they really wanted to but this director is known to be incredibly stubborn.
Newgenesis has a lot of issues but they're mostly in implementation rather than how it's made.
The combat is basically ripped straight from PSO2 but with some differing skills and some balance changes. But because it was just ripped and slightly altered it doesn't feed into the new movement mechanics very well.
The now open world with "dynamic instances" is also poorly implemented. For the sake of argument most of your dungeons are now more akin to Zelda shrines than anything else though it's a bit of an oversimplification.
Most damning of all is that the gear treadmill got worse and your petbot is hungrier than ever.
pso2 is best when killing giant enemies and running in circles
pso2 ngs is okay at both of those things
PSO2 is nothing like PSO. Its its own game. PSO2 is consist of two games. Base and NGS. You can only carry the look of the character but otherwise both offer different stories and content. PSO2 has the old grind while very anime with their story. NGS story is "safe" but not totally out there. Its easily one of the better action rpg mmo out there on both versions. NGS drop in the Creative Space, which is Wild Star housing but better. Both has great boss fights.
tldr, Base is ARPG from the late 00s era while NGS is Anime/Robotfricker Second Life. Both aren't like PSO 1 at all. Just play the private server for PSO if you miss it that much.
No. It had 60k peak players. Now it peaks at 3.5k
No, it's one of the worst ones. The director in charge of it is a complete and utter moron, he probably is killing the game on purpose.
That's how bad it is.
No it's trash, but keep posting her
It's attached to a pretty good game that has been abandoned by both the devs and the community.
NGS itself? Nah, and it won't be for a long time. It's sustained by Phantasy Star fans desperately hoping Sega remembers how to make a good game. A good character creator and that's it.
Nope. PSO2 was good, NG isn't. You may get a few days of enjoyment out of it. Decent number of bawds hanging around at least.
Not anymore.
Whats all the way on the right in OPs pic?
I was thinking about starting CoH again, I never got to endgame when I was a kid playing it. I think furthest I got was like 35 on red side and 25 on blue. I wasn't grouping much so I was progressing very slowly. How is the population on Homecoming or whatever through the early to mid game?
>Whats all the way on the right in OPs pic?
Runescape.
>How is the population on Homecoming or whatever through the early to mid game?
Whenever I hop on to play it (off and on the past 2 years) there's always been people on on the popular server (Everlasting I think?)
>Must ACTUALLY be MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, not just people existing in the same space as you
But this is exactly what modern "MMOs" are, thanks to them all catering to the same adhd crowd that only cares about instant gratification. They died the second these games implemented duty finders and such, actively destroying any need for social interaction in the process.
The playerbase is part of the problem. Look at what happened to classic wow. People were expecting classic wacky antics like boat tolls and funeral raids, but instead we got people rushing through everything and minmaxing extremely easy content so they could afk in org faster.
nah people were griefing nerds who were trying to stack their world buffies for the easiest content ever seen which caused a lot of butthurt.
>The playerbase is part of the problem.
Correct. You may by some miracle get the exact same game experience, but you can NEVER bring that old community back.
phase 2 disagrees
I spent most of classic killing wbosses with 100+ people and griefing the other 100+ player coalition competing with us.
Classic really is peak MMO now.
>massively multiplayer means duty finders
What the hell are you on about? That post never implied anything of that sort. Social interaction is key in an MMO and duty finders actively take that away and completely work against the essence of the genre. Are you too stupid to understand that?
Black person you literally said things being massively multiplayer means duty finders and group finders. Now you're having a tard fit because your post was dumb.
Bad day, zoomie?
it's like the pot calling the kettle a Black person.. Anyway turbo homosexual, what mmos do you play?
I think something that also contributed to the death of MMOs is seamless questing to max level. Those lulls where there were no quests or just inconvenient quests were what got people forming parties to go out into the world to go to dungeons and grinding spots
Exactly this. So many mmos try to cater to players who just wanted to solo everything. Truth is, unless you push people into social and cooperative play, they will not engage with it. In becoming so convenient, they completely dropped all the value they originally represented.
Because solo players were casual players who brought actual money to the genre. Whether that's good or bad depends entirely on what you like in MMORPGs. I personally don't know if I would have the patience to go through another EQ1 or FF11 where you MUST group with others or you'll be stuck in starter zones forever.
Is this the casual mindset on display? Grouping is seen as a punishment?
It's hard to put into terms of modern games when you have way more players around and everything is by default easier. I guess the equivalent would be that every mob beyond the starter zone is a dungeon boss and you can't do shit to it solo, meaning you MUST group with other players.
Literally yep. Thing is once you push people they have *fun* and start to understand that the effort to play with others is 100% worth their time. It's something an MMO has to teach its players the same way a singleplayer game has to teach its mechanics.
The process of finding groups can be very shit.
Games like FFXI are well designed in some ways (grouping up to level up) and designed terribly in other ways (grouping up to do one-time story missions).
If you know absolutely nobody you will have a hard time convincing people to help you out with something that takes a LOT of time with no payoff for the person helping. Even if you know people it can take a lot of convincing because doing one of these missions can take up all your free time in your day.
That is not casual thinking, that is reality.
Good mmos don't have "one time story missions"
Cooperative play isn't about doing people favours. It's about shared goals.
even without story missions people will "get theirs" at some point and move onto whatever is the next thing they want. down the line the earlier content will die out.
MMOs always fight entropy and Id even say they all live on a borrowed timer.
You're not wrong. There's ways to combat it - reincarnation, encouraging alts, streamlining early content as player turnover drops, etc etc. But it's an unsolvable problem really.
>must actually be massive
>return of reckoning has 500 people online
I mean I know it's early so none of the US would be online but.. my hopes were kindled and then crushed within minutes
500 people one one server can be fine depending on game size.
>there must be tens of millions of players or my zoomer brain can't handle it
I've been browsing this site since before you were born. If you would be so kind as to consume your own feces until an appropriate level of death has been achieved, that'd be swell.
"massive" is boring, and a plague on MORPGs.
Balance and gameplay would be much more interesting with a moderate amount of players all having real stake and responsibility in a world / server.
thats why mmo lites exist. they scale down the player numbers to focus on more indepth mechanics.
The entire "M"MO concept needs rethought.
"M"MO should not be the default.
I agree. It's way less stressful on the developer side while also allowing for fresh gameplay mechanics because you aren't forced into accomadating your netcode or client around massive amounts of users.
One mmo I really enjoyed but the balances from Korean shitting on the US version was RF: Online. When I first played the BMAU was pretty much non-existent, the chip war was pretty fair and tactics had a lot of influence on how the war was going, and man... I'd hop in my MAU with the boys and march across the battlefield, hundreds of us on the march. Fire up Nightwish - 10th Man Down as we approached and shit started going crazy, lazer cannons flaring, magic blasts dropping people left and right, and if we had the numbers and the will we'd win that chip war, set up our mining rigs, and go to sleep knowing we just made bank and the world economy in our favor.
Last time I played I hopped in my BMAU and it got dropped in 5 seconds, took fricking forever to grind the money back and my 2nd one was only half upgraded.
Good thread OP. Your definition is solid.
NexusTK has a few hundred players, and yet it's more of an MMO than genre-pretenders with millions. It turns out a few hundred people who all actually want to interact with you and have their own nuanced relationships with the rest of the crowd is much closer to a real 'virtual world' than a themepark that just matches you with random strangers.
Online: Return of Reckoning
WAR's critical problem was so much of it was tied to RvR which in turn depended on healthy and balanced population. One game went downhill there was no way to recover from it. I wonder how that private server is doing.
not helped by the fact chaos was magnitudes cooler and always outnumbered order
Prob Runescape but Everquest is up there
The MMO genre is dead but xiv is the king of it.
>xiv is the king of it.
No. FFXIV is barely an MMO itself
>The MMO genre is dead
In the coming years, it will be more alive than it has been in a decade.
>Blizzard survival game (Semi-MMO ala Rust/Ark, hundreds of players per server)[2024/2025]
>Ghostcrawler+Holinka unannounced MMO (No info) [????]
>Throne and Liberty (Lineage 2 spiritual successor, PvP focus) [Oct 2023]
>Lord of the Rings MMO - (Third age, Amazon Games) [????]
>Chrono Odyssey (Korean action combat) [2024?]
>Pax Dei (ex-EVE devs, fantasy sandbox w/ territorial control) [????]
>Tarisland (Chinese WoW) [Late 2023]
>Warhammer MMO (ex-CoH/CoV devs + NetEase, likely WH40K) [????]
>Warhammer MMO (Age of Sigmar, Nexon) [????]
>Archeage 2 [2024?]
>Zenimax Online MMO (No info, +200 devs) [????]
>Aion 2 (PvP focus w/ some PvE) [2024?]
>Night Crows (1000 player PvP battles) [Late 2023?]
>Corepunk (Isometric MMO ala LoL/DotA) [Likely 2024]
>Palia (Casual MMO. Minecraft+Farmville w/ Fortnite graphics) [????]
>Project D (Spiritual Dragon Nest sequel, w/ open world) [Likely 2024]
>Blue Protocol (Semi-MMO. 30 per zone, 200 per town) ala Tower of Fantasy/Genshin Impact) [Late 2023]
>Ashes of Creation (Archeage/Lineage PvP, EQ/WoW PvE, territorial control/city building/crafting) [2025/2026?]
>Riot MMO (No real information) [2025 or beyond]
>Dune: Awakening (By Funcom. Description says "THOUSANDS of players") [2024?]
>Playable Worlds (No information) [????]
>Profane (Sandbox. Valheim w/ PvP) [2024/2025?]
>Starkeepers (Sandbox. Territorial control, city building) [????]
>Wayfinder (Semi-MMO. PvE dungeons w/ loot farm) [Late 2023?]
>Soulframe (Semi-MMO. Developers of Warframe) [Probably 2025/2026]
>Ashfall (Post-apocalyptic, The Division-style) [2024?]
>BitCraft (Sandbox. One big procedurally generated world. City building/crafting) [Maybe 2024]
>Project LLL (The Division/Warframe mix. Open world PvE+PvP) [2024]
>Project ER (Large-scale siege PvP. Territorial control, seamless world) [????]
>RF Project (Mechs, open world, 3 faction RvR ala DAoC) [????]
>Ashes of Creation and Pax Dei are the only interesting ones on that list. Throne and Liberty already is a confirmed flop too.
Also how many of the rest are just theme park WoW clones?
>Throne and Liberty already is a confirmed flop too
The devs are currently thinking about whether they should fix/remake the combat, after the backlash they have received from both koreans and the western market.
>Also how many of the rest are just theme park WoW clones?
There's more non-WoW clones than there are WoW clones.
>The devs are currently thinking
no they're not, they put out that trash they did for beta because they are incapable of thought
>no they're not
"[...] So we've been in lockstep working towards a global version. Now, that means coming out of the Korean CBT, players provided feedback, and we are iterating against that. The NC team is addressing that player feedback directly."
I wasn't literally saying they are not working on "better" combat.
I'm saying they do not think and are incapable of making better combat
>I'm saying they do not think and are incapable of making better combat
Oh I see what you meant. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens with the game. I do agree that if they launch it with the current combat + autohunting + P2W then it will be completely DOA, so they would be smart to delay the game again and work something out.
Sucks that blue protocol was delayed out of fear TL would be good. Especially since that is now being delayed
>delay
>good
>not when they're fricking censoring everything for the global release
I did not say it was good. Nowhere in my post did I say anything even close to that.
It sucks that Blue protocol is delayed, and it sucks that TL is horseshit.
>aion 2
Aion classic was one of the best MMOs of all time.
fricking ncsoft made it to crash and burn within WEEKS
>project d
>has nothing to do with racing
It only remains to find people who will play all this shit.
There's a pretty big market of people out there just waiting for the next big MMO. Lost Ark and New World both had 1 million concurrent players despite sucking balls, because people crave a new MMO.
That's because they were published by Amazon, nothing more.
My man you walk out of town in ffxiv and you see 0 players because it's actually a lobby game.
That's the problem. This community will just roll over all these garbage games and keep posting frogs in discord. No one gives a frick about mmo's outside of rmt, which are the lion's share of this so-called community.
And all of those will be dead within a year a most.
>Ashes of Creation, Dune: Awakening, Pax Dei
God, I want to believe so bad in these.
>RF Project, Starkeepers, Warhammer MMO (Age of Sigmar, Nexon)
I also want to believe, but I know I'm deluding myself.
>Throne and Liberty
Already dead on arrival. Everyone who tested it has been on suicide watch due to how bad it is. No point in even pretending there's a chance of redemption here.
>Riot MMO
Pozzed without a shadow of a doubt, but will probably still be good gameplay-wise (at least enough for the masses to play it for a long time), at least if LoL and TFT are anything to go by. As usual with Riot, expect the game to become something you end up hating 5 years later. They can't help themselves.
>Aion 2, Archeage 2, Ashfall, BitCraft, Blue Protocol, Chrono Odyssey, Corepunk, Palia, Project ER, Project LLL, Profane, Soulframe, Tarisland
Much to whoever-is-hyped-for-this' chagrin, they'll get some attention, become FotM, some streamer clout, then get completely forgotten except for the whales that inhabit it, those unable to quite due to sunken cost fallacy, or the ones still delusional about them. A couple of them might make it and become a bonafide classic if developers embrace soul instead of quarterly reports.
>Blizzard survival game, Ghostcrawler+Holinka unannounced MMO, Lord of the Rings MMO, Warhammer MMO
No a singular chance in hell these won't be just completely pozzed, soulless trash.
>Night Crows, Playable Worlds, Project D, Wayfinder, Zenimax
I don't see any of these surviving in the long term.
>Zenimax
>I don't see any of these surviving in the long term.
Why not? They made Elder Scrolls Online which is still fairly popular.
You mean an MMO based on one of the most recognizable RPG franchises of all time? New IPs don't make it on their own unless they're exceedingly good or they have very specific appeal that gives them word-of-mouth. For example Astellia Online, while having issues, was brimming with soul, but still didn't make it... because it was "fantasy mmo no.1121242353".
Guild Wars 2
what happens if I put eternal fires in the auction house during the last time they gave away free 7 days game time and they probably didn't sell and I never logged back in? this was like a month or 2 ago
FFXI
very based and also very rough game.
I think one of the games issues is that a lot of the content is designed to only be done exactly once, so it can be hard to find people for shit they already did before.
like doing all the zilart missions once is already obnoxious enough as an example.
I played that new private server that came out last december and got a dragoon to 70. I really enjoyed the game and the people a lot of the time, but there's just way too much grinding and putting together a group to do fricking anything is like pulling teeth.
I really wish xiv stuck to what it was doing and kept improving on what they had with 1.23 instead of throwing out everything and making shittier (somehow) world of warcraft.
if the official servers were f2p or b2p I'd play.
Refuse to play private servers, and refuse to pay monthly for an mmo, especially one as old as FFXI
it is fricked up they keep charging for that fricking game
You, too, have met the WEBP menace, I see.
I think I'm going to have to start studying art or graphic design or something, because I fricking hate the way both FFXIV and WoW look but I don't know why, and I don't know how to articulate it. The character models in FFXIV look like lifeless mannequins and all the outfits look like my grandparents' furniture. WoW is kind of easier to explain, it looks like a joke, every character looks like a caricature of what fantasy characters are supposed to look like; it's gross.
FFXI does not have players outside level cap, is no longer massive and doesn't really have soul anymore.
I think it's impossible to make a good mmo in the current year.
A single-player open world rpg with multiplayer elements (optional co-op, player-to-player trading, DD's pawn system) is honestly superior in every way.
Nobody who has played a real mmo would think this. The value add of genuine social presence far outstrips just about everything else, they just take investment from both players and developers.
>they just take investment from both players and developers
It shouldn’t be this way. The developers shouldn’t let their game be a single player game or else the overworld gets boring and the only time you interact with anybody else is to group up for a dungeon.
Return to Morroc
worlo
Picked up GW2 recently, game seems very alive, a lot of people in every zone, even low level ones. In some expansion zones there are so many people during meta events that I see nothing but names on my screen. Community is also extremely friendly, people are chill even if you fail in dungeons.
I was very positively surprised about how fun the game is.
Isn’t that the MMO where you literally can’t even jump?
No? You can jump, you have mounts, gliding and everything. Hell, it's the game which probably has the best jumping puzzles in the genre.
Maybe that was GW1 then. I do remember GW2 being a trash WoW clone at least. Too many of those to count.
Honestly it can hardly be called a WoW clone, the combat in GW2 is infinitely superior.
WoW copied so much content from gw2 at this point you can call wow a gw2 clone
Vanilla WoW, not WoW Classic, was the greatest MMO ever made and let me tell you why.
It all comes down to having just the right level of casualness.
Dying is punishing but not so punishing that you're afraid to try risky stuff or avoid PvP.
You can solo a lot of the game but it still strongly incentivizes you to group up, with questing being a lot quicker and easier in a group, and elite quests and dungeons requiring groups and being especially rewarding.
There's basically no reason to group really early in the game while it teaches you to play and introduces the basic mechanics of your class, but as you go to higher level zones you'll find more situations where you need to group and PvP becomes more and more prevalent, with endgame zones having PvP mechanics involved in everything you and a large number of elite quests and dungeons.
The classes were all designed with huge missing bits in their kits that were compensated for by playing with other classes, and they each had actually unique tools to bring to different groups and quests.
Yeah it had its flaws, crafting was useless 95% of the time and there wasn't enough to do at the endgame besides grind the same couple of raids, but they really had something special and I think they pretty much immediately ruined it with burning crusade. They should have had an expansion model closer to FFXI's.
Nah. PvP is cringe and the game looks disgusting.
EverQuest classic p99.
dofus is okay
but it filters people who can't stand turn based autism, especially with all the gear customization autism on top of it for builds
Wakfu/Dofus are good examples that could have been incredible if they didn't lean into solo play. Dofus wasn't deliberate, they just made it very easy to multibox. Wakfu they leaned into it deliberately.
How many years will this take though?
I'm sorta interested but I'll probably just stick with Mabipro.
I estimate that it is much closer than people think.
They've been reworking older content for a year+ now and have already added in voice acting for some NPCs which no doubt is going to be a major part of the Unreal upgrade.
Voice acting is also usually one of the last things you do when making a game.
I haven't played Mabi in years but it has always been one of my favorite MMOs. I doubt I'll come back in any serious capacity since most of my friends quit and my guild is dead.
I'm just happy the game hasn't died a slow death in maint mode like so many others, Nexon finally does something decent for once
Everquest, either p99 or the TLPs.
Guild wars 2
>Must ACTUALLY be MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER, not just people existing in the same space as you
this already removes like 99% of popular MMORPGs. Maybe Albion online and Classic/Private WoW (not wrath servers)
That's the point. Trying to cram these in the same genre is like calling binding of isaac and nethack the same genre.
>local man just wants TERA but with better quests, story, and other shenanigans
It was the perfect MMO gameplay wise but all the korean gambling systems absolutely destroyed it. The gameplay was good enough to the point that the translation to PvP felt good too.
Just make XIV but with TERA's gameplay and we'd all be happy.
>coombuddy
stay
huh
When I was a teenager I couldn't believe people thought WoW was the best MMO when it looks like this. You can't even see your character and there's shit all over your screen. It doesn't look like an RPG at all, it's like some kind of digital board game for bugmen. I then learned the horrible truth that most RPGs on PC look like this. "PCchads" were sitting here issuing commands to units across a map and calling it a fantasy adventure. Grim.
yet you cannot stop seething about PC games even in an unrelated thread, homosexual
It is related, because MMOs shouldn't look like that, but almost all of them do. It should have a different name, like MMORTS.
It's a symptom of tab target combat and relying on tonnes of abilities. I don't like it either and I share the same disgust but you can either put up with it or wait for MMOs to stop trying to clone WoW like the rest of us.
>when it looks like this
What you fail to realize, because you're a zoomer, is that WoW's graphics were actually pretty fricking good for a 2004 game of that size and scale. Not to mention that the whole game had a ton of polishing that other MMOs didn't have at the time, especially with UI elements.
Pic related is what Everquest looked like in 2002, for example.
You are correct of course but he still has a point about the UI being atrocious and not very good for verisimilitude in a role playing game. It's something 99% of MMOs suck at.
This is an odd take since computer RPGs have been menu based, turn based, and grid-based since their inception. What did wise teenage-you expect online RPGs to be like?
Only MMOs that ever had soul in the first place were Osrs, FFXI, WoW vanilla and XIV. Osrs is probably the only one left. FFXI is just bots/multiboxers and statics you wont get into. WoW classics just pure homosexualry of the worst degree. XIV is just degenerates and it lost its soul ages ago. OSRS f2p and private server FFXI are the only pure kino forms of soul left.
Do you guys have any faith or interest in Ashes of Creation?
He's mostly just spouting "mmos should be less convenient" without really understanding the nuances. It's going to fall flat.
Nuances like what exactly?
Some inconvenience is necessary to push people toward social play. Some inconvenience (looting stuff individually one click at a time, no fast travel) serves no social purpose and will just get your game dropped.
There is fast travel and not being able to open up your map and fast travel across the world is a good thing. They've also already expressed interest in doing AoE looting
Is this the MMORPG thread?
I have a lot of free time and I would like to dabble in an MMORPG. The only one I ever really played was Runescape as a kid. I would preferably like something without a israeli subscription model. The few I've found are:
>New World
This looks fun. It's only $20 on Steam right now. There's no transactions after the initial purchase but the game seems to have had a MASSIVE decline in players.
>Guild Wars 2
A lot seems playable for free and expansions seem to go on sale often. My only problem with it is how old it is + how playable it is solo.
What would you anons recommend?
Out of those two? GW2
It will respect your time more and feel like more of a vidya game.
Fair....ok I will give GW2 a try. I'm open to any other suggestions though.
unironcially don't play GW 2. Most GW 2 shillers never mention that you would need to buy living story since some of those are quire to get mounts. They will tell you LE YOU GET IT FREE IF YOU WAIT A YEAR or grind billions of hours for payshop money. The "free" part of GW 2 is just a demo and doesn't offer what GW 2 has a whole. As you mention, solo is shit.
I suggest looking into other game or online game that let you solo stuff like the Monster Hunter Series or anything.
He isn't fricking wrong. 14 is poz by the fanbase but everything else isnt. GW 2 is poz by the devs and this shove it in your face, bigot.
>solo is shit.
t. didn't play the game
The whole story is designed to be done solo, you never need to get into a group if you don't want to
But that's just wrong.
The game gives you the raptor mount right out of the gate, and the rest are unlocked by owning the Path of Fire expansion. They're even giving away the Skyscale mount in the next expansion for free.
Don't listen to this homosexual
, GW2 is a good game if you go in with the proper expectations. It has the best open world and exploration in the (admittedly) shit genre and you can solo 90% of the game no problem.
Most of the mounts are shit and the only reason morons like you praise it is because movement in the game is cancer shit. And mount isn't anything special anyways. You can't get griffon unless you grind. You can't get beetle unless you buy the DLC and grind. Skyscale is grind and now you have to pay for an "expansion", which is still buying.
> best open world and exploration
Don't make me laugh. You have better exploration in older mmo than this piece of shit. There is NOTHING worth exploring
you get enough to put points in, but regardless, not a lot of people are going out of their way to help. Especially in the HoT region.
>you need to play the game to get stuff, so it's bad
You're completely out of your fricking mind
>not a lot of people are going out of their way to help. Especially in the HoT region.
I don't know about NA, but in EU you will find people doing HoT hero points throughout the whole day.
Tell me you don't play the game without telling me you don't play the game
Because everything you are saying is wrong and moronic
end of dragons was pozzed trash that shit all over cantha lore and the writers/devs all got fired for it
rest of the game is okay though
Endgame is so shit. You grind a legendary or grind gold for cosmetics. You get no rewards from anything else outside of a very small amount of cosmetics.
>one is made by amazon
>the other is not
You can figure this one out yourself anon
Guild Wars 2 is atrociously pozzed and feels worse than osrs; the other games developed by Amazon. Play XI or XIV if you have the time as the Samurai cancels out the israelite. XI came out in 02 and with the right mods and shaders it runs great and looks great.
>Guild Wars 2 is atrociously pozzed
>Play XIV
get a load of this homosexual
Guild wars 2 not even a contest. Only the base game of gw2 feels a bit old but you go fast through that. The best content is in the expansions and living world episodes. The game is also perfectly playable solo except for a few things in the heart of thorns expansion. There are a lot of players there however so there will always be some people around to help you kill a difficult boss
Those bosses aren't even worth it and good luck getting the one required for the griffon mount or the ascend weapon class achievement in Elona. ironically, the beginning of Base is where the story peak. Its just shit after that.
Those bosses are required for hero points. You get 20 points per boss I believe so it's recommend you beat them
Those don't mean jack shit in the long run.
Story is shit and recommending GW 2 for the "story" deserved to have their opinion discard.
>MUH SCARLET
>MUH BRAHAM
>MUH TAIMI
>MY ELDER DRAGONS THAT AMOUNT TO NOTHING
>ELONA AND MUH NO JOKO
>THE FRICKTARD THAT IS ICEBROOD SAGA
>CANTHA
You can't solo shit for Fractal or Raid, the only two content that matters. Many achievement require bodies or frick you. Saying its "solo" friendly is the most dumbest thing I heard. I would rather he play OSRS or RS 3 for solo shit than this piece of shit.
None of the story after your personal story is good. It all turn into shit drama with your "friends".
>You can't solo shit for Fractal or Raid
Are you completely fricking braindead?
>is this game soloable?
>no, because endgame raid content requires your to join a group
People who ask these questions don't want to solo the goddamn raids, because that's moronic. They're asking if you can go through most of the game solo.
Frick you if you think this game is worth "soloing" when there is NOTHING worth soloing in said game. Everything that is soloable in GW 2 is shit. World boss? All you're getting is an ecto and you're leeching off a zerg. WvW? Soloing is discourage as frick and zerging is the only way to play it nowadays. Silverwaste? Same shit. Daily? They don't give you anything good. Fashion? Go frick yourself. Its easily one of the worst. Can't do dungeon soloing. Can't PvP solo. Can't unlock many things like mounts soloing. The only "solo" part is the story and its one of the most shittiest western game story I seen in decades. Frick you for actively recommending people eating shit and saying its good.
>if I ignore 99% of the game content then my argument is valid!
Just point and laugh at this moron lmao
So you're saying I actually have to interact with people in an online game????
What a concept
>LOL THIS MMO IS SOLO
>THIS MMO ISN'T!
Ill just quote this guy
Anon, soloing really refers to "can I finish the story on my own". Of course it doesn't cover shit like dungeons or PvP. Are you moronic?
>"can I finish the story on my own"
You don't play GW 2 for the story and suggesting GW 2 because the solo content is story is one of the most stupidest thing I read
>Those don't mean jack shit in the long run.
You literally need them for elite specs. Did you even play the game?
>ironically, the beginning of Base is where the story peak
And that's how I know you're just a seething contrarian and your opinion is completely worthless.
GW2 might be the only MMORPG that kinda forgot it even has dungeons.
>What would you anons recommend?
Albion Online. It's one of the only MMOs out there that isn't a completely casual theme park game.
Dungeons and dragons online is not really an mmo in the conventional sense. Shared spaces are just towns - you might run past other players, but you'll never interact with them. Play is mostly driven by an LFG system.
While it's not 'massively' multiplayer, it's definitely just 'multiplayer' in the best way. All the content is 6 man instanced quests. Unlike other mmos these quests can be genuinely difficult at all stages of the game and are often quite involved, with branching paths and puzzles and gameplay gimmicks that put most other games to shame. On top of that you have some pretty extreme mechanical depth, with a huge variety of ways that people can contribute to the party. Together, these encourage a kind of involved co-operation that has given me some of the best memories in gaming.
The point of this post really is while the "genuine mmo" is great, you can still get similar value out of a game that isn't as massive. I think there's definitely room for more games like this as the model is probably a bit more sustainable.
>City of Heroes private servers
>Warhammer Online: Return of Reckoning
Why did you not apply your own rules to your picks? Anyway, no such mmo exists anymore. Hasn't been a thing in more than a decade.
I like Mabinogi
Mabinogi is the mmo for us fellow green friends.
mabinogi is just a 3d bastardization of nexustk.
does bastardization translate to improved?
Fallout 76.
>tfw have been playing fo76 recently and have been having fun
VATS sucks, server side looting sucks, ammo drops for your gun is dumb, I hate live service games, and I STILL had to do bethesda frickering with ini files to make it run well
but it's been worth it, 30 hours in and I've barely touched the map.
Yeah it could have been exceptional, but at least they fixed most of it.
Pretty nice now.
Since I'm still new to it I'm a but curious.
What would you do to improve it?
Well as someone with 1500 hours since beta (yes, i have brain damage) let me tell you: enjoy the first 100 hours by exploring the enormous map and doing all the quests and sidequests.
That's the best content this game has to offer, it is very close to a proper Fallout game and a really good time too.
However the game doesn't have an end game like in most MMOs, most of your time at your level cap will be spent doing daily quests and public events to obtain a crumble of all the currencies (12 in total plus seasonal ones) to build plans for cool shit like weapons, CAMP stuff or armor pieces.
They are trying (and somewhat succeeding) to improve this aspect by adding better activities to earn those currencies, like Expeditions and Daily Ops, but the grind is still the same.
76 desperately needs a proper endgame that isn't rotating around the map doing dailies and weeklies, that are usually just kill X, loot Y or craft Z.
Grinding dailies, grinding events to obtain godrolled weapons and sometimes binge-looting the same 3-4 structures on the map full of loot if your supplies run low.
Once you complete the main quest(s) and all the side storylines for the 8 factions in the game, the grind is what is left.
In past Fallout games you had mods, in this one you have korean MMO grind mechanics.
Considering I got my key for $4 that's pretty good.
Not sure how I'd feel about grinding in a Fallout game but we'll see when I get there.
I'm also digging the building aspects, I don't know how large they let you get but I like it so far.
As an example, the season that just ended 2 weeks ago gave away for free a really strong double-barreled shotgun with a freezing legendary modifier, it's called Cold Shoulder and it was part of the season pass.
They moved the plan of the gun to the wop vendor, and it costs 500 Stamps.
You get a total of 10 Stamps per Expedition run, and those can last from 30 minutes to 2 hours because they're the 76 equivalent of dungeons.
This is the kind of grind you will see in 76 if you want to play after hitting level 100 and after doing every quest on the map.
>I don't know how large they let you get but I like it so far.
Pretty big, reasonable but pretty sizeable.
You also have Workshops like in Fallout 4 and Shelters, each with their own build budget and size limit.
>You also have-
Forgot to mention, you own those at the same time as you have your CAMP deployed on the world map.
That's a total of 3 bases.
4 if you paypig the 1st subscription (that is really good btw, but i refuse to shill it) for the Survival Tent, which is like a mini-base instantly deployable everywhere.
I will not pay for fallout 1st ever.
Even if it becomes one of my favorite games I refuse.
I like the idea of expeditions, especially ones that can last 2 hours. My best times in MMOs are spending hours in raids or dungeons with friends just goofing around or figuring out mechanics.
>I will not pay for fallout 1st ever.
>Even if it becomes one of my favorite games I refuse.
You will have to if you want to actively engage in the endgame, the bonuses are too good to be ignored.
If you want some military grade copium, you get 16 dollars worth of store MTX currency every month by being subscribed, on top of all the other bonuses.
If it ever crossed your mind to buy Atoms, the best value is the subscription.
Everyone agrees the other bonuses should be made part of the normal game, but Zenimax doesn't care at all.
If you are discussing "soloing" an mmo in any capacity you are literally doing it wrong
It's impossible to play Mabinogi solo, you have to socialize.
Even in the main story quests they force you to party with people occasionally. There's no group finder, you have to talk to people.
Harder content also requires talking
FRICKING NONE OF THEM YOU moronic gayGGOT
DDO is the only good MMO
DDO is amazing for what it is, but what it is along the lines of GW1 aka cooperative online RPG really aimed at a small group of friends going through dungeons at their own pace.
I miss dragons dogma online
>ddo
best rogues ever
every mmo should have ddo rogues.
Ffxiv is fun. But the playerbase is asshomosexuals and has gotten 100x worse with Endwalker.
>the playerbase is asshomosexuals
I see this but I have no idea what anyone means by it. If this is a "hurr troony" thing I can only imagine it comes from WoW players in denial.
Not a troony thing but it seems like you have them on your mind alot you in the closet or something?
Uh oh. Insecurity flaring up so anon feels the need to redirect.
Yea im insecure I dont have your huge pp inside me. Im trans btw so hope you can handle a whole lotta woman.
WoW >>>>>>>>>>
FFXIV
this is like the white girl basic b***h of MMOs and a 100% sign you've never played another MMO
Return of Reckoning has the most soul. The problem is it's fricking dead even by private server standards.
Albion Online, the non-autismo version of Eve than isn't dead.
meanwhile, eq2 is giving three more expansions for FREE to all of dozen players still playing it
Great game but the playerbase is dead af
what game to the left
right, i mean
Runescape.
>mfw people endlessly fight over MMOs when there are so many free ones out there you can hop between games, never pay a dime and have fun
problem with mmos is precisely the mentality some people still have thinking it's 20 years ago when you had barely any choice and when you chose one you were committing for life
I remember losing a few friends I made in one MMO when I told them I was switching for another. I can't really commit to a game for more than a couple of months, but hardcore MMOtards take it so seriously when you hop from game to game rather than suffer the same excruciating boredom that is waiting for the next bi-annual content patch
free mmos are pretty much universally dogshit.
and mmos are generally commital games.
this is a game in 2023
say something nice about japanese art designers
ffxiv sucks horse dicks btw shit game
>Little sun not getting the respect he thinks he deserves
Pathetic
>low graphics setting
This 20 year old game has more detail than modern FFXIV maps.
This map is also larger than the one you posted.
which game is that? looks sovlful
Mabinogi
the structure in the middle of the map is pretty cool and there's a village on top.
what sucks is that you will NEVER return to it after doing the dogshit single player story.
straight up waste of effort for what is essentially a bad visual novel.
you failed your own criteria
I watched a video earlier where one guy complained that casters don't use their weapons to cast spells in wow, is this true? Do they just carry big sticks around for fashion? Shouldn't they be channeling magic through their catalyst like normal wizards?
In WoW casters rub their hands together like israelites to cast spells. I think it's the same animation as interacting with objects but it has some particles or flashy lights over top
Man the game has 0 soul, role play my ass they can't even get basic magic stuff right
>Man the game has 0 soul
It was the most SOUL-filled MMO from 2004 to 2010. After that they kind gave up.
Did the old version of the game let you cast spells with your staff?
Each race has three unique casting animations and stances, they're different for each gender.
Instead of using the staves they just default to those casting animations
They used to use wands to fire magic but that was just a basic ranged auto attack.
Blue Protocol has a good amount of soul for an mmo released in 2023.
Not an MMO
Blue Protocol is a lobby game like Dungeon Fighter or Vindictus
It literally isn't anything like DFO or vindictus which you'd know if you played it.
I can't play it is isn't out
but I do know you enter instances of like 20 people when you leave town, that's not how MMOs work.
You'd know this if you played MMOs
It is out you moron
And that is in fact how every current MMO works.
When I leave town in Final Fantasy I see everybody that is currently in that zone
When I leave Heidel I see everybody that is currently outside Heidel
When I leave Stormwind I see everybody that is currently outside of Stormwind
When I leave Blue protocol I see 20 people
That's because those games are dead and don't have more than 20 players in a zone.
Here's what happens when there's too many people in a zone: it gets split into instances and the amount of players on your screen is culled because the game can't handle seeing more than 30, no effective difference.
JP server is out and playable
>When I leave town in Final Fantasy I see everybody that is currently in that zone
The game has far too many players for them to allow that, it would explode under the weight of all the animations
yeah but you can see them
in blue protocol there's no chance for them to fade in you can't see them, interact with them, or anything
>>I can't gank lowbies and ruin their day so it's not an mmo
this video is not the current state and you know it. Most high pop servers in EU are empty. Especially ragnarok took a deep nose dive with the EW.
now make another webm in july 2023 😉
>It is out you moron
u wot m8. It releases in 2024.
Bullet Bow looks baller.
Maplestory private servers
All dead after a week or filled with gay drama or pay to win through donations or filled with stupid gay shit content nobody wants
Never again will I torment myself with keeping up with that shit
> asks about the soul
> lists the criteria for any multiplayer cattle pen
O tempora, o mores!
Any MMO can be alive if enough people start playing it
I'm about to get into this, can you play this with just a group of 2 or is 3 necessary? I can't seem to sell the experience to any of my other friends
You'll probably need to set up your own city + set of keywords, because most of the areas on private server are high-level
I'm still working through the core games but I can't wait to check this out with a friend or two soon
The dungeon crawling is honestly more enjoyable than any MMO I've played in a decade, like Mabi but less jank
Guild Wars 2.
Blade & Soul is kino, too bad the playerbase is dying off.
Blame Netease for than and the upcoming abominations that is Blade and Soul 2.
Also obligatory censorship shit
I was blaming the engine update for it but what's bns2?
Is that the mobile game?
Every MMO thread is
>Wow why can't they just make a super hardcore open pvp game where I can solo play and be successful with my 1337 skills
>The game should also force partying to level to cap that way everyone can get hard stuck if there's nobody to play with in their level range
>Gear grinding is not a legitimate form of progression, the number next to my sword is somehow less relevant than the number next to my name
People dont know what they want, news at 11.
Brack is legitimately the only person who was ever right about the MMO Genre and it's playerbase.
Didn't Classic keep WoW relevant during SL's blunder?
People that cant give up on WOW keep WOW relevant. Its why they wont make WOW 2. They know it would finally break the currently unbreakable.
Relevant to who? The vast majority of people who play games knows the game exists but they won't play it for a multitude of reasons. Not like they're getting a huge influx of new players
It's amazing how whenever someone posts a picture of Brack, the classictards come out in force.
He is basically only known for the "you think you do, but you don't" quote.
WoW Classic has more players than retail. And retail has around 1-2 million if you take the quarter report.
>Brack is legitimately the only person who was ever right
Not really, a ton of people wanted to play wow classic, just not as an autist wanting a forever game which is probably who his famous quote was aimed at.
MMOs would be improved somewhat if they'd make links to outside communication channels a bannable offense.
People would just adopt a XIV-style macro communication
That's honestly what's so soul crushing about FFXIV, no chat bubbles, and everyone is ERPing on Discord instead
Every FC either demands you install Discord and join their server, or they pressure you into it because the FC chat is dead
It's no fricking surprise really, I remember a lot of the "MADE FOR GAMERS" marketing for Discord mentioned or showcased people playing XIV together
that would straight up change literally nothing at all.
MMOs should literally just implement Discord straight into their game, so that if people are typing in Discord, you'd also see it in the ingame chat. Some older MMOs used to do this with IRC channels.
how come wow is still the best mmo in 2023?
what went wrong and when?
bros why can't you even find 10 people to raid with in wow the servers are barren as frick...
where do you play?
draenor eu
theres shitloads of pugs are you moronic?
it's all gdkp/boost groups, I'm not gonna waste my time with that shit. They actually expect you to work for free while they profit...
they're normal clearing pugs moron
post group finder with time stamp
>they're normal clearing pugs moron
frick no they're not, I tried joining one earlier and people immediately started discussing prices and asking for how much they could buy items off others for
>post group finder with time stamp
not gonna log back on for your sake, please understand. You can post your group finder if you feel like it though
ah, you don't play the game
fricking homosexual
Can't see a screenshot from you so I get the feeling that you don't play it.
Can't play with a guild because I don't have set work times so I have to pug when I'm free.
HAHAHAHAH YOU FRICKING PIECE OF SHIT homosexual
YOU DONT EVEN PLAY THE GAME LMAOOOOOOOOOO
Post group finder
LOG IN BRO
TAKE A SS
TAKES 30 SECONDS
GO
Imagine defending a game you don't even play bro
Pathetic, what's your mental illness called? Semenslurpitis?
you said there are no groups
post the group finder bro
takes 30 seconds
why aren't you doing it to prove your point?
Told you I won't bother opening the game back up to do it, I don't give a shit if a stranger on the internet believes me or not. Are you 13 years old? That's about how old you are when this stuff matters to you...
lmfao
in the time you took here to shit your diaper you fricking asscancer homosexual you couldve taken 100 screenshots
but you dont play the game
have a nice day, unironically
How about you post proof you aren't 13 years old anon
how about you stop lying you cancerous piece of shit?
So you can't? Anon you need to be at least 18 to post here...
imagine larping that you play a 20 year old game when youre 35 year old just to shit on it
when will your parents murder you?
Definitely underage if you expect everyone's parents to be in murder range.
have a nice day, pathetic loser
Come back in 5 years, kid
Or don't
loser
made you look
*glomps you*
nyaa~
Don't glomp children anon you'll be put on a list...
https://www.wowprogress.com/pve/eu/draenor
i would like to say lotro but then they fricked up and added black skin in the character creation and women with beards so the soul is a little stained
lotro lost all it's soul after Rise of Isengard
I still play OSRS from time to time. As I got older I came to enjoy games without some really dumb time gates that made me feel like I was falling behind if I didn't play a month or two. FFXIV was the last MMO I seriously played and after stopping that I've had way more time for other vidya.
wow private servers are pretty cool, up to wrath i guess, but i like wow up until warlords of draenor
Guild Wars 1
Not an MMO
It'll scratch the itch and its a great game.
True, it's a great game, but this an MMO thread
I still can't believe how they fricked up GW2 so badly. All they had to do was just make GW1.5 in an open world.
Everyone from Anet who made the first one left. I forget where they went.
made by people who never played gw1
reminder that /vm/ has an active guild and playerbase going
LOTRO
Final fantasy xi
>GIVE ME A POPULATED MMO WITH SOVL
>AND *NO* I DON'T WANT FINAL FANTASY I WANT *REAL ANSWERS*
every time
quit being a hipster
I assume you aren't referring to XIV
4/10
>Levelling is playing through a single-player VN where you run around a bland, dead and useless open-world filled with useless mobs since you can't even farm them for exp
>Dungeons are all straight lines that follow the exact encounter design of, pull 2 mob packs, barrier, 2 mob packs, barrier, boss
>Raids are all some shape and are just DDR
>Almost zero form of gameplay customisation, the only thing being materia, whose effects are nearly imperceptible to anyone not using a DPS metre
>Endgame is just doing dailies for tomes and savage for a weekly piece of gear
>Gil is useless
>PvP is shit
>ARs are a joke after the first day
lol
wow homosexual can't understand that FFXIV is a even bigger worldwide phenomenon than WoW ever was.
Okay, you baited me. Frick you.
>FFXIV is a even bigger worldwide phenomenon than WoW ever was
I didn't see a South Park Episode of FFXIV.
I haven't seen any TV commercials with Mr. T
My mom has never asked me a question about FFXIV because she saw it on the news.
I hate both games but you're wrong.
Is South Park even still a thing?
Yes
sounds dangerously close to every other mmo in the past 20 years tbh, including the current ones that aren't XIV
Yes. The genre is in the worst states it's ever been in, but that by no means FFXIV is a good MMO either.
nah everquest sucked
WoW was like that before they made the game indistinguishable from it's competition.
Private servers cannot have "the most soul", sorry. They are—all of them—cesspool playgrounds for corrupt moderators and their bootlickers.
If XIV counts as an MMO, then so does your local library.
Then the answer for what's most sovlful is your local library.
My local library was built by Al Capone
Then be sure to dungeon delve your local library and see what rare tomes can be found.
Make sure to bring a friend to insure the task is done quicker.
My friends don't have access to my local library.
Region locked
Just ask them to temporarily transfer servers to see your house. I'm sure they'll appreciate the interior decorating like all avid MMO players do.
That's going to take a lot of grind.
Travel expenses get rough when going cross continent. And the trip takes forever, it's a good time to chat with other players though.
>What MMORPG has the most soul in 2023?
none of them
eve
pso:bb ephina
>eve
not since they were bought by Pearl Abyss
frick koreans
Since Dragonflight is on sale right now, I'm wondering if I'd enjoy WoW? I play FFXIV but am a getting bored of it basically being a hub game where you only go into the world to unlock a dungeon before going back and sitting in Limsa.
Wow is basically the same except you do beast tribe-tier quests every day instead of capping tomes.
dragonflight is basically a hub game aswell but the combat is way faster and more complex, this can be a good or bad thing imo
sometimes i like the freedom and skill wow affords me but sometimes xivs slow methodical play is comfier
THIS. Several years ago I jumped between WoW and XIV because I loved the slower and methodical tanking of XIV more than the chaotic one in WoW. But now... XIV is in maintenance mode, barely any good content with updates since Shadowbringers. The game got just boring.
>but the combat is way faster and more complex
LMAO
:^)
adding more words doesn't actually make the rotation any more complex. You can cut out half of the words if you just added "remember don't overcap your resources" (something incredibly basic that you shouldn't have to tell people to begin with) at the top
>pressing your interrupt key is "hectic"
the absolute state
stfu Black person moron
Maybe try playing the game.
any random pull in an m+ dungeon with 3 different mobs all with multiple spells to interrupt or stop or avoid is more hectic than anything in ffxiv
>intentionally finds the easiest rotation possible
There are easier ones
>single target rotation
>1/3rd is aoe
You expected me to not know how to play spriest? Lmao morons
bm hunter is the single easiest spec in wow and it still pales in comparison to the absolute brainrot that is nu-smn
SMN is simple but it's still not nearly as bad as the majority of wow specs when it comes to just bashing one button until the mobs croak
>summon bahamut
>press one button
>summon egi
>press one button
>summon egi
>press one button
>summon egi
>press one button
If we're discussing grey parse rotations then...
>frostbolt
>frostbolt
>frostbolt
>frostbolt
>frostbolt
>press one button
What game are you even pretending to be talking about?
when people say press one button in reference to an mmo rotation the obvious implication is they mega press one button [repeatedly]
I understood that when I replied to the poster talking about wow, sucks youre too moronic to make the connection too
arcane is unironically harder than any xiv job
Arcane is only hard for wow players because they're used to not having any resources to watch
what wow specs don’t have a resource to watch
all of them except healers
I don't count holy power etc as resources since you don't actually need to look at them since you know exactly how many you have at all times if you're not braindead.
Played more wow than you I'm sure.
Way to out yourself for never playing any other MMO than xiv pal.
>arcane is unironically harder than any xiv job
Yes, people from FF14 have no idea how to play a job that is spamming 1 button and then hitting other buttons when they light up.l
tell me the arcane burst without checking icy veins
>the obvious implication is they mega press one button [repeatedly]
>Bahamut Phase
>Searing Light->Astral Impulse (Weave Energy Drain)->Astral Impulse (Weave Enkindle+Fester)->Astral Impulse (Weave Deathflare+Fester)
>Gardua Phase
>Slipstream ->4X Rite
>Titan Phase
>Rite+Mountain Buster 4X
>Ifrit Phase
>Rite 2X and Crimson Cyclone->Crimson Strike where viable
>Phoenix Phase
>Spam your 1 while timing out your enkindle/tri-disaster replacement
There's literally no phase in Summoner that is one button. All phases, even at their most simple, are using multiple buttons.
>uhh I get to simplify wow rotations down to one button spam but if you simplify the single egi button that changes for you that you press 4x in a row down to one button i get mad!
You are quite literally pressing one singular button in WoW, unlike XIV. That's why it doesn't work 1:1. Faceroll in one singular spot is not complexity or depth, it's just several buttons you constantly mash on cooldown followed by quite literal singular button spam.
good thing that isn’t how arcane plays right now then huh?
>df tier 1 set explanation
>not tier 2
>good thing that isn’t how arcane plays right now then huh?
lmao ironic you didn't even check it
whats the current arcane set bonus and how does it affect their playstyle
you’ve got 2 minutes
You tell me, arcane master
I'm not the guy you are arguing with, but that picture is with 4 piece set from 10.1 included. It's not outdated.
>arcane blast
>arcane blast
>arcane blast
Cute little webm. Now check this pic.
>wordswordswords
>nothing of substance
bro doesn't need to write a small essay to explain that you should cast your defensive when you have to move but he does anyway
>Cast Arcane Blast until 4 Arcane Charges
>Cast Arcane Blast as long as Radiant Spark is on the target
>Cast Arcane Blast as filler
I'm legitimately astonished you think applying buffs mid-combo to tease power out of your burst window is some kind of extremely complex maneuver.
congrats, you’re wrong
High quality response, as expected. Enjoy your fiercely challenging gameplay of Arcane Blast 4X->Buff->Arcane Blast 4X->DoT+Buff+DoT+Buff->Arcane Blast ?X
congrats, wrong again
sounds like you don’t know how arcane plays
Sounds like you're mad that I called you out on using outdated info
if you can’t tell me how the tier set changes gameplay then you don’t know if the info is outdated
I know it's outdated because it's not the most up to date info.
>ignoring 95% of the everything in that picture and just boiling it down to 3 things. Stop being so dishonest.
95% of it is stupid shit like "always be casting, stop moving moron" and outright lies like caster classes (aside from arcane) having to manage mana. He's right to ignore it
Have you played arcane, and when was the last time you played WoW?
Played it in shadowlands for a bit, swapped to BDK in DF
wow mogs ffxiv in every way
It depends on what you like about FF14. Gameplay is better, classes are better, content is better. Dress-up is worse, story is worse, progression can be confusing, addons can be confusing.
>hub game
That's basically WoW as well. Play Vanilla is you want to explore the world.
Not true.
Unironically Black Desert which is funny
No game as p2w as black desert will ever be soulful
see
People saying BDO is still P2W haven't played the game in over half a decade.
I played it yesterday.
Yep you can still buy more chances to enhance than a free player.
Yep you still get more boosts than a free player.
Yep you still have better pets than a free player.
Yep you still get more everything than a free player.
And by free player I mean paid player since it's buy to play.
How people put up with a game that is Buy to play, pay to play(value packs being almost required), and pay to win is beyond me.
Fricking pick one monetization model, not all three and do them poorly to piss off as many players as possible
Maids, pets, weight, inventory space, value pack, books, kama blessing, cron melting, outfit selling, storage space, straight up buying enhancement mats, outfits, a better computer which means more frames which means more dps because attack speed is still tied to fps a decade later, more character slots for more energy for more silver
and there's even more
anyone who argues otherwise is a lying c**t
artisans, valks, tears, they sometimes sell rng boxes with near BiS gear as rewards also have gold bars in them, fairy rerolling and faster growth, there's so much shit it never ends
Literally nobody is buying all of those in any capacity that actually matters other than someone who's literally rich, and honestly, I don't give a flying frick if they do. I'll still clap them in PvP because I actually play the game and they don't.
You also get pretty much all of this shit for free on a regular basis if you just play the game regularly.
The only type of person I can see being truly salty about this is a neet who's new to the game and can't even buy anything at all. You're not a neet are you Anonymous?
>I don't give a flying frick if they do.
so you're a disingenuous c**t
you agree it's p2w but just don't care
stfu homosexual not even going to bother with the rest of your post
It's not p2w in any way that actually matters. Literally who is buying enough outfits to melt into cron stones for enhancing? It's like, fricking $350 for one PEN Blackstar click attempt. WHO is spending money like that? You'd have to be a fricking moron or so stupid rich it doesn't even matter.
Salty scrubs who lose to baddies who pay to win instead of being chads who got the gear without paying and stomp idiot credit card warriors who are bad at video games.
Just cry and give up because you don't have what it takes to win I guess.
except bdo has never been about skill
Gear > class > skill
Always has been this way, likely always will be
Wow, just like literally every game with gear and classes. All I'm hearing is excuses.
>p2w doesnt matter because only salty people would think it matters
You can play whatever garbage game you want, but that doesnt make it less garbage.
Tower of Fantasy
Soul is gone forever, even if you play an old MMO that had "soul" at one point it's just not there anymore.
Players collectively became way too smart to have one ourselves in the first place anyways.
MMOs are soulless by design.
>MODERN MMOs post-2012 are soulless by design
Fixed that for you.
Only zoomies think this. The MMO genre is arguably the most soulful one that's ever been created. It's the only one that attempted to make a persistent world that players can inhabit together and influence. It's when MMOs got turned into themeparks like WoW and FFXIV that they started killing the soul and essence of them.
How come XIV players refuse to accept their visual novel isn't a mmo?
there is no such thing, the genre has lost its soul long long ago
Runescape/OSRS is the only game that fits those criteria without factoring in private servers
imagine playing ffxiv in 2023
holy frick
>mention that wows combat is faster while xivs is slower and more methodical
>don’t even attach a qualitative assessment, literally said they can both be enjoyable
>yoshit cultists come out of the woodwork
its actually sad
they are extremely insecure about the piece of shit they're playing
What do you think of picrel?