In Imperator when you go into debt, next month's event fires which nullifies your debt, but some negative modifier comes with it.
In CK3 you get negative modifiers while you have debt, but when your ruler dies all debt resets.
Both are pretty horrible.
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Victoria 2
>The current interest system is one massive bug as interest is NOT paid to POPs, instead interest is destroyed. If the total interest from all countries is bigger than the total money production from gold mines, the world will run out of money, destroying the economy.
Has anyone managed to make the world run out of money?
Yep it's not hard to do if you're trying. Especially easy since the ai will just hoard money and never spend it
How can I do it?
that's fricking funny
>If the total interest from all countries is bigger than the total money production from gold mines
something that will never ever get close to happening even after thousands of games, making it a completely pointless speculation
i suppose it could happen if the player went out of his way to perma-occupy (and never annex) almost all gold mine production, which would be moronation/autism to rival WCs
Vicky 2, no questions about that. There are at least five major ways it can completely collapse the whole game's economy due to the fact AI has no fricking clue how to handle it and majority of countries are in debt.
>majority of countries are in debt.
Seems realistic, if you aren't trillions of dollars in debt are you even a real country?
Mate, Vicky 2 economic model didn't even stand next to theoretical economic models (regardless of which economic theory you want to apply to it), not to mention real life.
>EU4
>Money comes from nowhere
>Everyone starts with a hyper-competitive 4%/Annum interest rate (historic rates were 10-16% if someone liked you)
>Can go as low as 1% with enough ideas and bonuses, with the only limiting factor being inflation since lenders have infinite patience and funds
>Every deathwar involves rulers taking out as many loans as their income can pay for, despite everyone knowing perfectly well that they can't pay them back
>Go bankrupt and, within 5 years, have the same credibility as someone who paid off his loans
>For player lenders, you have 1 year to declare a war on the other player to try to get your money back. Otherwise, he gets off scot-free.
>Most AI won't accept loans
>If you ever get into a war against someone who owes you money, the loan is immediately discharged and forgotten, without any resumption in case you win
EU4 is a shitty game.
EU4 being shit has nothing to do with its debt system, which is a carry-over all the way back to the original board game.
>EU4 being shit has nothing to do with its debt system
Deathwars, anon.
starts with a hyper-competitive 4%/Annum interest rate (historic rates were 10-16% if someone liked you)
historic default rates were also way higher. often these loans were in practice and expectation simply gifts, or contributions to prop up your benefactor.
>historic default rates were also way higher. often these loans were in practice and expectation simply gifts, or contributions to prop up your benefactor.
On the level of monarchs, maybe. Private businesses heavily involved with the shipping industry? I think not.
Why would that make you less likely to accept a loan?
They've limited that now. It's more that you're using your royal privilege to get exactly 5 loans. You can't stack them anymore.
Yes, but it should be more closely related to the development of loan markets in your country.
you meant accept as in you send them money? lol, ok
>you meant accept as in you send them money?
Yes.
>Most AI won't accept loans
also sensible, since most states were in the same seat: broke as shit and lending money no one really expected them to pay back
Most loans were from private industries, like royal cities, Italian banks.
Most debts was never repaid, but rather the state, granted the private entities some privileges, like in the case of cities, they would give them more autonomy and tax cuts.
>>Can go as low as 1% with enough ideas and bonuses, with the only limiting factor being inflation since lenders have infinite patience and funds
You don't even have to try anymore, you can get 1% interest loans from the burgher estate day one with basically no consequences.
it's only 5 loans and they give you a trade efficiency debuff so it's not that good honestly
good for a war at the start of the game though
>it's only 5 loans and they give you a trade efficiency debuff so it's not that good honestly
The value of 1% can potentially be worth it if you finance another player well with them.
starts with a hyper-competitive 4%/Annum interest rate (historic rates were 10-16% if someone liked you)
Do you suggest that there should be a system that resembles trustworthiness? Like if take many loans within a year, your interest goes up to 30%, while if you take a loan every 50 years, it is 10%?
comes from nowhere
I really hate the infinite money model, the economy should be closed, and one country hoarding a shit ton of money should cause major issues. They should really just replace "development" with provincial wealth so that every province's money is stored in it. I actually did this in my strategy game.
*borrowing
Its fricking Stellaris, which simply has NO debt system at all. Instead you just get negative modifiers
>You produce 400 minerals every month, use 1k for alloys, and have 0 stockpile? Well, have a -50% modifier to alloy production
You are literally making 100 alloys from nothing. Stellaris runs like shit because they simulate every pop but don't even bother to make good use of it by giving every pop input and output
Stellaris is a schizo mess of a game that doesn't know what to do with itself
Shortages are situations that start if an empire's stored stockpile for a resource drops to 0 with negative income. Shortage situations progress as long as the empire has negative income and recede once a positive income is reached. Unlike most situations, the aim is to prevent the situation from making progress to avoid increasing empire penalties. All shortage situations have a Maintain Current Expenditures approach with no effects and one or two other approaches which attempt to alleviate the deficit by reducing expenses or increasing output of the resource.
If a shortage situation progresses completely, the empire defaults, refunding a large amount of resources based on how many decades have passed since game start and ending all current shortage situations. However, all upgraded buildings except capitals are downgraded to the lowest tier and all offensive armies and half of the empire's military ships are disbanded. In addition, the empire will get the Empire Defaulted modifier for 10 years, imparting the following effects:
+25% All costs
−50% Monthly influence
−50% Monthly unity
−25% Ship weapons damage
−50% Pop demotion time
All shortage situations start at 15 progress and advance based on the ratio of expense to output, scaling from 0 if expense matches output up to +5 if expense is double or more of output. The shortage progress is reduced by −5 while income is postive and by −1 while the empire has a stockpile but negative income. Each stage takes 25 points to advance to the next stage.
What would be a good debt system?
Isn't this fricking easy? Just pawn provinces, that is countries did it. A country will loan count B county X amount money with 20% interest, to be paid back in 10 years, as a guarantee for the payment A will hand over certain provinces, which will be returned once the debt is paid.
That is literally how Denmark lost to Orkey to Scotland, they pawned it and failed to pay, so Scotland just kept it.
With paradox ai this would enable wc just by giving loans
that would be fun
>With paradox ai this would enable wc just by giving loans
That’s what the international financial clique did irl…