What system do you use when you want to play a Cyberpunk game with modern design sensibilities?
>inb4 Red
What system do you use when you want to play a *good Cyberpunk game with modern design sensibilities?
What system do you use when you want to play a Cyberpunk game with modern design sensibilities? >inb4 Red
Unironically GURPS. Handles all the tacticool stuff and cybernetics, while being ten times more transparent and consistent than any edition of CP
Captcha: MYYDYK
Cyberpunk RED. You may have inb4 but its still the right answer.
OP asked for Modern and Good. GURPS is as old school as AD&D and only good if you're the right kind of autard. Though, given that the OP thinks RED isn't good, he might be.
>2004 edition isn't modern, because I'm a zoomer that was just a sperm sample back then
I guess DnD 5e is downright ancient, after all, its original editions date back to the 70s!
4e GURPS is basically the same as every previous edition, OD&D and D&D 5e are completely different games on almost every level.
>4e GURPS is basically the same as every previous edition
Not really, but it's basically the same as 3, which frankly says a lot about the quality of the system. It just is that good that they just had to tweak a few numbers here and there and reorganize the material. I don't expect to see a GURPS 5 in a very long time because of how good the system is, while most other systems go from version to version trying to patch fundamental problems and failing at it (or at best fixing some things and damaging others in the process).
>Cyberpunk RED
>8 Reflex/Coprocessor or you're playing the game wrong
>Everyone defending this shit tries to be cute by saying "Just use explosives LOL :)"
>They quietly disappear when it's pointed out 8 Reflex/Coprocessor dodges explosives too
Absolute garbage system
vide
You're either really bad at probabilities and have severe negative outcome memory bias, or you've never played the game and let your opinions be dictated to you by people who are really bad at probabilities and have severe negative outcome memory bias. Either way, you're wrong and moronic and your opinion doesn't matter.
>pretending bullet dodging isn't a total game changer
You can try defending it without being a total reaching moron, you know.
>autard
You will never be a woman, fugly troon. Pedophile. have a nice day.
my goblin wife
GURPS has shid for cybernetics but can do almost anything if you're willing to stat it out yourself. Speed boosters (if using vanilla cybernetics) suffer the most because you're not getting Shadowrun 2e-tier wired reflexes rape unless everyone has levels of Altered Time Rate or some shit
Ventangle
Sprawlrunners, a hack for Savage Worlds.
I'm a big fan of Eclipse Phase 2e as well, but that's more Altered Carbon then Cyberpunk
What do you mean by modern sensibilities? More streamlined and integrating nontraditional resolution mechanics? Maybe shadow of the beanstalk. If you mean something built off DnD 5E, there's genepunk or 2185
Unless by modern design sensibilities you mean utilises more contemporary solutions to things like giant hit location tables while still being decently crunchy. I don't know what might fit that definition people have billed Red as a more modern taken on 2020, eclipse phases are essentially d% roll-under systems but despite not being strict cyberpunk I'd argue it's got modern 'sensibilities' depending on the meaning. Blade Runner is a functional system that communicates the premise well, but I'd describe it as pretty light. There seem to be a lot of rules lite cyberpunk games, Neon Overdrive to Cy_Borg and so on. These might arguably conciously evoke old school sensibilities though. I haven't checked out shadowrun 6E. How modern would you understand 5E to be. It was crunchy, sure, but does that mean not modern?
Honestly I prefer my cyberpunk crunchy but haven't really been able to land on a system I like. I liked shadowrun 5e but I don't always want the magic and fantastical elements. I honestly would have loved the alternative Rokugan Setting Empire of the Emerald Stars (sci fi Lo5r 4e) to be a genuine stand alone.
Just more streamlined, I don’t care about the originality of the resolution mechanics. In fact, I don’t care about the resolution mechanics overall, as for all the quirky spins and probability fiddling that people like to bang on about, they’re usually one of the least interesting things about RPGs.
Sprawlrunners sounds awesome in spite of being SW, but unfortunately can’t find it online. Maybe I’ll give Red one last look. Thanks for the assist, chooms.
Have a version with fat trimmed.
As long as you don't touch Black Chrome content, the weapon system is much more streamlined compared to 2020, even just 2020 Corebook.
Armour and HP has been simplified as well.
If you compare RED's Netrunning's to 2020's 'running, it's also very streamlined, but it's still a complex system.
Skill list is shorter than 2020's, but the "class skills" are now more developped.
Autofire rules are now also easier and faster to resolve. Cover's now binary. The combat is now longer due to lesser lethality, but the individual rolls are faster, am I making sense here?
RED has the advantage of quite active homebrew community but this also means you have to separate the wheat from the chaff yourself.
>fat trimmed
Couldn't have trimmed the dumb skill list? No one is taking Personal Grooming over the skill that lets you kill people with a katana.
That’s what made nope out again. It’s like, huge skill list, okay.. what for? Why? And then you skip ahead and there’s a side panel saying “ah well we wanted a wide variety of characters but we didn’t want to actually make any of these useful, so the game will make up reasons for them to exist”.
Frick that shit, frankly.
My Rockerboy is and he's leaving katana swinging to his elevated-access groupies (the rest of the party).
>personal grooming and wardrobe and style are different skills
>first aid and paramedic are different skills
>brawling and martial arts are different skills
>autofire is it's own skill and not covered under handgun/shoulder arms
>surgery and medical tech require you to put points into medtech when every other skill is availiable to any class
God the skill list is such a mess.
If I had a nickel for every time my CPR games have come to halt because we needed to check what skill is required for a check I could buy a soda from my work vending machine.
Absolute garbage system. Happy to be playing SR5e instead.
Only morons play the shameless cash grab RED is. You should have played 2020 instead. Also, if your game come to a halt because you have to look skills up, how about you learning the system before playing? And don't come with Shadowrun. 5th edition had like 350 pages of only rules (without counting magic) - that's more than the whole Cyberpunk 2020 main book including background, equipment and adventures.
Oh boy I can't wait to play 2020 with its even more bloated skill system
Oh boy, I can't wait to play shadowrun with its 160 different charts you need to play, or the shitty Cyberpunk RED which needs three threads a week to clarify rules because it's such a fricking mess despite having been dumbed down.
The only skills you need to care about in Cyberpunk 2020 are the ones your character did put points in, which are 10 career skills, plus 1 to 5 additional pick-up skills. For all the others you simply do Stat + 1d10. Cyberpunk 2020 isn't a perfect system, far from it, but it's pretty damn good, and for now it's the best for very near future cyberpunk.
>160 different charts you need to play
Not even remotely true, what do you think "chart" means? Do you mean "table"? Tables are just lists of things. Can you imagine how hard it would be to find information if it were just inserted into the text rather than being broken out into a separate table?
>The only skills you need to care about in Cyberpunk 2020 are the ones your character did put points in, which are 10 career skills, plus 1 to 5 additional pick-up skills.
Isn't this exactly how it works in Red?
Your grammar proves you're not white.
Your diction fails the “prove you’re a human” test.
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You can't even spell right and you think I'm not white?
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I'm a filthy ESL
i agree that 2020 is better but you are such an emotional b***h boy i hope the other guy continues to spite you haha
Cyberpunk 2020 is my gamefu.
What garbage. If you are going to copy GURPS skill difficulty system at least do half assed job at it. Pilot Air Vehicle is tough. Okay. Lip reading, Cryptography, Science, Cybertech, etc are all normal. Wut?
Well, I don't like modern design sensibilities, so.
>Wants Cyberpunk
>But streamlined
>But not Red
>Don't care about resolution mechanics
>But more streamlined
Mini Six, I guess. Give us more to go on, get better answers.
As a side note: if it took you less than a quarter of an hour to craft an OP, you probably shouldn't have posted it.
Why not
I’m looking for lists of chrome and augments, for lists of equipment-based abilities, and for tight gameplay loops.
Come to think of it, BitD might work well. Time to look into The Sprawl, I guess.
>Why not
Because you aren't saving time posting an incomplete question. You're wasting our time asking you for the information you should have included already. Or - as you seem to already know what you want - why post at all?
Also, reflect that anything which has large gear lists can't be streamlined and have that gear matter.
>anything which has large gear lists can't be streamlined and have that gear matter.
Yes they can, it’s called exception-based design
The moment you have a large gear list AT ALL it's not streamlined.
How about Nova Praxis?
I'm playing in a cyberpunk game using the Modern AGE rule set (with some input from the Expanse and World of Lazarus books. It's working out quite well. Love the stunt system.
>modern design sensibilities
Define those
Ever heard of this ?
Didn't read it yet because Cyberpunk is not on top of my priority list but it looked promising.
> inb4 OSR shit
If I wasn't playing Cyberpunk 2020, Zaibatsu or Ex Machina would be my cyberpunk game of choice.
i run a campaign for a couple of years and found cpred to be pretty bad once you move past one shots. also, it's easily the worst manual i have when it comes to presenting the information you need at any given time, things that should go together are split in multiple sections, and the equipment list appears twice, but with different info. it does speed up some things compared to cp2020. nowadays, I'd just take the setting and run it in gurps or swn.
Homebrew™
>What system do you use when you want to play a Cyberpunk game with modern design sensibilities?
Shadow of the Beanstalk.
Good and Modern are oxymoronic.
If you want modern, just play something dumb like Cyberpunk RED.
If you want good, play Shadowrun 4e.
OK boomer
>good [system]
>Shadowrun
Pick one.
Modern design sensibilities are bad, so your question specifically precludes a real answer.
The most modern cyberpunk RPG I play is from about 10 years ago and veers pretty hard into gonzo sci-fi, which isn't to a lot of cyberpunk player's tastes.
Anybody played Cities Without Number?
Why is she grabbing her crotch
She's attempting to grab that satchel which has come off her shoulder.
HEE HEE
SHAMONE
I wish a woman would look at me.
That's unfair. If course we'd look at you. In disgust, but we'd look.
>we
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Not yet but it's Crawford's default system, which means it'll play more or less the same as Stars Without Number but with cyberpunk themes.
I find Crawford's Worlds engine to be...ok. It's not exactly modern in sensibilities (OSR roots) and it can really get bogged down. But if you have some neurological problem and need to use d20 core mechanics, it's probably the best choice.
If I want players to be Edgerunners I play Neon City Overdrive.
If I want them to play Street Punks then Cy_Borg.
What do you like best about each of these systems?
It's two flavors of rule light cyberpunk system really, I
Neon City is cheap, rule light (Rules recap fits on 1 page), d6 pool and tag based system. Players are quite strong and can do wild shit from the very start.
Cy_borg is OSR light with cool art, quite easy to plug homebrew on, very deadly gritty cyberpunk.
Definitely not for people who like crunch, but I like my cyberpunk fast paced.
Seconded.
>cyberpunk
>modern design sensibilities?
Oh, that's easy. Shadowrun 6e.
I still play the same game I played 30 years ago: Cyberpunk 2020. 30 years later and it's still the best game out there. RED, V3, GURPS Cyberworld/Cthulhupunk, Shadowrun, Interface Zero, Ex Machina, Remember Tomorrow, Zaibatsu, Tech Noir... I tried them all and none convinced me. For noir and near future cyberpunk, Cyberpunk 2020 is still king.
GURPS Cyberworld is a garbage setting and I say this as a gurpsgay
D20 Modern.
pretty bad to be quite honest with you family
Shadowrun, I guess. Tried Cthulu modern once and it felt terrible, but Shadowrun minus the fantasy creatures was the easiest to run with
Frick off, newbie!
>modern design sensibilities
what is this even suppose to mean, dumbed down like everything modern? Just play 2020
>what is this even suppose to mean
Made extremely homosexual.
I've been looking at Hard Wired Island.
If it isn't an 80s/90s system or a close derivative, it's not proper cyberpunk.
Savage Worlds
Coming from 2020, is RED worth trying or I shouldn't even bother?
Really depends on how willing you are to tolerate changes that make it less simulationist but more 'balanced'
I'm not big on netrunners and from what I heard that's really the only thing that works downright better in RED.
Regarding other stuff, is it really different from 2020 in your opinion?
I don't personally like it, but I can see why people would. It's overall less mechanically complex, reflexes is less of a god stat, many of the rules have been simplified or dialed back, and it's a return to form with no higher level content like fullborgs, ACPA, or maximum metal content in general. There is also no rules for making your own robots of any variation.
If 2020 is dnd 3.5e, RED is dnd 4e.
>no higher level content
kind of a dealbreaker for me.
I enjoy that shit in 2020.
>If 2020 is dnd 3.5e, RED is dnd 4e.
Well frick, at least it isn't dnd 5e.
I'll give it a shot, just to see if it's worth playing.
Thanks cyberbro.
No worries choom
do you mind telling me which ai prompts you used to generate those cyberpunk images? Thanks
>reflexes is less of a god stat
Anon...
Yes
Because 2020 reflexes determined physical attack accuracy and all the skills dex now does too.
It's objectively nerfed, just not in the ways that wouldn't make it still the strongest
Netrunning is simpler, but netrunning now also means running around with the team because you can't hack dataforts remotely anymore. Instead, you find yourself playing Pokemon Go! in augmented reality, which kind of sucks. Hacking remotely from a rented hotel room, hoping not getting traced back and have Internet or Arasaka scramble a team to eliminate/kidnap you was part of the charm of 2020.
We never did that datafortress shit, we always used The Menu which strongly encourages you to be in the field with the team. Technically you might be able to reach the whole facility from a van parked right outside, but that also puts you in a van parked right outside when rapid response forces show up and start backtracing you.
To me, data fortresses seem more like legwork or follow up, not something you pursue in the middle of a run.
I feel like most people who skimmed the book completely missed that section since it's buried at the back of the netrunning chapter. But it does basically everything on a single roll in real time, which beats most of the complaints people have with netrunning.
Running a cop campaign. Three sessions in and the netrunner did more datafort hacking than the team had combat. He also uses the menu a lot, mainly to gain access to cameras and vehicles.
I just had it so if you plug into a system directly, you spawn in that exact square on the data fort if it's part of one. Then your three rounds of netrunning look like this
>1: log in, see where you are on the map
>2: run program, copy data, release demon, attack defense, whatever
>3: log out
Even if you have to run two programs or fail to log out for a bit because you're being hammered, that's still shouldn't be more than two or three meat rounds, and most of what you're doing is just rolling against a static number for a fixed result. The trouble is if you don't know what you're doing and have to poke around the book looking at program descriptions.
What can Netrunners even do that matters?
Remote control doors, cars, helicopters, industrial equipment, cameras, screens, booby traps, maybe guns sometimes. Anything that's networked can be really easily hacked by a netrunner if they're within 400 meters or are hacked in over the internet. Note, 2020 internet is hyper dialup virtual reality cyberspace as imagined by some nerds in the 80s, not the real internet of today or the 80s or 90s. When you connect to a place, your data is actually moved to that place, not just remotely connected to it. If you want to get back to where you started, you either need to log out and then log back in, or else move yourself back, incurring long distance charges both ways unless you spoof the official internet corporation's servers into thinking that you are local traffic. Or just steal bandwidth from someone else and let them argue with the internet company about fraudulent charges.
I thought you couldn't do any of those because limited architecture and no internet or whatever the frick. I remember playing a Netrunner in an apartment building beginner module and I asked what I could affect. Just sprinklers and lights. Okay. Could I shut down elevators? No. Went outside and couldn't affect cars. Couldn't do anything remotely. It was all kind of shit.
That's a GM problem, because the book literally talks about remote controlling cars, elevators, heavy equipment, doors, cameras, and screens as direct examples of what can be done just by activating a Controller program while The Menu is up without even having to full dive. You use the LOCATE REMOTE action to find every remote system within 400 meters of your current position, and then CONTROL REMOTE to activate control programs that give you control of those things. The examples include forcing an armored car to roll out of its parking spot and provide cover or to use a big crane to smash someone else's car after using cameras to locate their ambush ahead of you.
That sonuvabitch!
It is possible that you didn't actually have the right Controller programs for those things, but I think that's still a GM problem since that should be easy to explain and fairly easy to resolve in-character if you were supposed to not have them at the start.
That's because your referee fricking sucks.
In the case of the cop campaign, the netrunner hacked the datafortress of the Night Owl in order to access a specific camera feed and get a visual on a suspect. He hacked into NCRT's system to get a clue on a strange traffic accident. He also hacked different cameras to follow the itinerary of a vehicle. Finally, he disabled a couple of cameras before a raid - where the only shootout happened, leaving the detective chief, the street cop and the solo injured (the forensic detective got kidnapped, and the netrunner is still unharmed).
Cyberpunk 2020 of course.
>I said modern desig-
Eat my entire ass.
Preparing all the electronics/hackables as a GM sounds like a total nightmare. I've never played nor run one of these systems, but is the GM expected to hand place every electronic in the environment with which a runner may interact?
Yes and no. There are plenty of random tables and other ways to think them up (look up Augmented Reality on DTRPG) and the GM is supposed to sprinkle some around. However, most of it is the player asking and the GM ruling, just like "who's in this bar?" or "can we get in via the sewer?"
That makes sense; I hadn't even thought of using random tables for it even though I'm a big fan of that sort of thing in fantasy games. I downloaded the book and will check it out later, thanks.
You can't play any *good game with modern sensibilities.
GURPS with the Biotech, Cyberpunk and maybe Supers expansions.
Optionally add PSI, Illuminati and Secret war to add a layer to the corporate Information war. Oh, and Cthulhupunk for ideas of cursed cyberware, it doesn't even have to be magic, malfunctioning machines inside a body is horror in itself.