I didn’t play that shit but it’s related to paradox mons right? The whole paradox mon thing seems like a nod to fakemons so I’ll go ahead and say the machine is powered by imagination.
Tldr is the paradox Pokémon don't make sense as ancestral or future Pokémon, and it seems that no matter what the answer is, it will involve the revelation that paradox Pokémon are not naturally occurring Pokémon. We know that there's some sort of Pokémon generator coming in DLC2, so it really just seems to come down to your flavor of theory. >if time travel
Something (probably terapogos) generated the paradox Pokémon, someone sent them back into the past which were then discovered by various people and cataloged by heath. Eventually the lack of physical evidence causes heath to lose credibility and the paradox Pokémon become in universe cryptids. Turo/Sada believes they are real and eventually builds a functional time machine that grabs the paradox Pokémon from the past/future and pulls them into the present.
>if imaginations/wish/demiurge
Heath is a liar and the professor is a loon who found a means of generating Pokémon and misinterpreted it as a way of time travel.
There's also a handful of anons who completely deny any of this and claim that it is pure time travel and that paradox Pokémon are entirely natural, but I legitimately don't know how serious they are since they seem more interested in farming (you)s more than anything else.
your time travel explanation makes it sound like the paradox pokemon from the past/future pulled to the present are naturally occurring and actually existed in the distant past/future
Congratulations on making the same mistake that the professor makes. >someone generated the Pokémon and sent them into a different time period. >the professor used the time machine to grab those Pokémon that aren't supposed to exist to bring them into the present day >because this works and the professor doesn't understand the circumstances, they assume it was a natural Pokémon.
7 months ago
Anonymous
last I checked a lot of people who believe it’s time travel think paradoxmons aren’t fake and try to go for the bootstrap time paradox angle
7 months ago
Anonymous
>they assume >Through analysis of its genetic makeup, as well as its behavioral patterns...I came to realize that what I had discovered was in fact an ancient form of Cyclizar, the Pokémon commonly ridden in this region.
I don't think you know what an assumption is.
7 months ago
Anonymous
nta but it was a good assumption. it’s just that they don’t have a scientific way to test for something created supernaturally in the image of cyclizar
7 months ago
Anonymous
>it’s just that they don’t have a scientific way to test for something created supernaturally in the image of cyclizar
Yes they do, behavioral patterns and genetics. If it were supernatural in nature those results wouldn't come back with a similarity to modern Cyclizar.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>it were supernatural in nature those results wouldn't come back with a similarity to modern Cyclizar.
If god made a clone of you it would come back with your same behavioral patterns and generics. But god creating a clone of you is supernatural.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>If god made a clone of you it would come back with your same behavioral patterns and generics
Terapagos isn't God anon. In the imagination theory it's a creation from the mind of the person who desires it, you can't imagine down to the genetic level.
7 months ago
Anonymous
you’re the one saying an imagined pokemon can’t match genetically because you said so. I say an imagined pokemon can match geneticallyz
if I dream about my dog with superpowers and the dream becomes reality, my superpowered dog would match my dog. behaviors, genetics, etc
7 months ago
Anonymous
>you’re the one saying an imagined pokemon can’t match genetically because you said so. I say an imagined pokemon can match geneticallyz
Okay, how did the professor imagine genetics they didn't know about?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Everyone in Paldea knows about Cyclizar.
7 months ago
Anonymous
what makes you think a dream animal being made into reality needs to have the dreamer know everything about the dream animal down to its cells?
besides we already got the dream world where secret hidden abilities no one knew about came into reality anyways
That doesn't answer the question and knowing about Cyclizar doesn't mean you can envision it's very DNA let alone imagine the minute differences that would create a Raidon.
Also the even if the Entralink was a part of the actual continuity it isn't a link to the imagination, it's to other worlds in general like the world of the opposite version. All of the pokemon you encounter actually exist.
7 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but it's literally magic. Every Pokemon has its own magic powers. You're thinking way too hard about this.
7 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but SV has gone into more detail than any other game. It's clearly not magic if they're going out of their way to explain it.
I mean, they could have just said >Terapagos can open up portals in time and space and we use that to grab pokemon!
And left it at that but instead they say that Terapagos' crystals give off a frick ton of unstable energy meaning it doesn't have anything to do with time travel itself like Dialga and Celebi it just powers a time machine like how those electrodes in GSC powered the Rocket Base in Mahogany but you wouldn't dare argue that they're powered by imaginary electricity imagined by the rockets and brought to life by the electrodes.
7 months ago
Anonymous
what makes you think a dream animal being made into reality needs to have the dreamer know everything about the dream animal down to its cells?
besides we already got the dream world where secret hidden abilities no one knew about came into reality anyways
7 months ago
Anonymous
Don't DNA change after a very long time through mating and environment? Didn't the game said that they DNA is very identical? Shouldn't that leave some issues?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Correct - the DNA should be slightly different, otherwise it would mean Koraidon/Miraidon are just clones of a modern Cyclizar, not an ancestor/descendant. That the DNA is an exact match should have been a red flag to the professor, but one can assume that by this point they were already off their rocker and not really thinking rationally.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Don't DNA change after a very long time through mating and environment?
Minute changes yes. >Didn't the game said that they DNA is very identical?
No. It doesn't say it's identical.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>someone generated the Pokémon and sent them into a different time period.
Where are you getting this from?
>There's also a handful of anons who completely deny any of this and claim that it is pure time travel and that paradox Pokémon are entirely natural, but I legitimately don't know how serious they are since they seem more interested in farming (you)s more than anything else.
That's not how I see it. Usually the time travel anons cite the game while the imagination anons never actually bring up anything that supports their stance but rather just try to "debunk" time travel.
In other words the former want to discuss while the latter want to shitpost.
>imagination anons never actually bring up anything that supports their stance but rather just try to "debunk" time travel.
imagination posts evidence in-game all the time while time travel anons are the ones that consistently deny everything and deny any form of hints and only take what the game says at face value. A game that also had clavell lie and say he was cassiopeia btw.
7 months ago
Anonymous
magination theorists believe that Heath lied, which created the paradoxes he saw but he never saw them because he faked the picture so Terapagos is also fake but Terapagos somehow brought everything to life but the paradoxes only have a 200 year life span before the energy that made them wears off and turns them to nothingness even though people went down in that time span and found nothing and that's because it's actually the professor's time machine that made the paradoxes, not Terapagos, because it's an imagination permanence machine and that created the paradoxes and not Terapagos it's only powered by Terapagos who's ability is manifestation of thoughts which is why it created the AI when the professor wished for it but the paradoxes they held near to their heart weren't manifested because she wished for a time machine that was actually wished up instead of being built.
If this sounds stupid and overly complex that's because it is.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>which created the paradoxes he saw but he never saw them because he faked the picture
people faked the bigfoot photo too, yes. and we also have the game that keeps saying heath is a fraud and briar wants to clear his name. >so Terapagos is also fake
no heath saw terapagos down there and drew a picture of it in disk form >but the paradoxes only have a 200 year life span before the energy that made them wears off and turns them to nothingness
there were never any paradoxes 200 years ago because heath made them up >because it's actually the professor's time machine that made the paradoxes, not Terapagos
terapagos is inside the time machine making the paradoxes. there’s a giant hexagon sphere in there >but the paradoxes they held near to their heart weren't manifested because she wished for a time machine
Sada believed past paradoxes are all ancient dinosaurs so naturally she thinks she needed a time machine to get them. That’s an obvious line of thinking, no?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>people faked the bigfoot photo too, yes. and we also have the game that keeps saying heath is a fraud and briar wants to clear his name.
This isn't evidence that he lied. It's just saying that no one believed him because Area Zero was so unexplored.
You as the player though go an verify everything in the book, YOU know that it isn't a lie and that's all that matters. >no heath saw terapagos down there and drew a picture of it in disk form
So what makes Terapagos real and what makes the paradoxes fake?
You have no evidence to say that the paradoxes are fake in your theory but also have no evidence to say Terapagos is real under it. >terapagos is inside the time machine making the paradoxes. there’s a giant hexagon sphere in there
Whether or not that's Terapagos doesn't support either theory because it's essential to both being a power source for time travel. >Sada believed past paradoxes are all ancient dinosaurs
We don't know what Sada thought and even then if she thought she needed a time machine if its dreams to life then it's just a time machine.
You need evidence anon.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>imagination posts evidence in-game all the time
To this day we haven't had any kind of evidence from imagination theorists just a bunch of baseless ideas that come from nowhere. For example WHY do you think Heath lied? What in the game made you come to that conclusion?
7 months ago
Anonymous
the game consistently calls heath a fraud. almost everyone questions the dubious nature of the scarlet/violet book, even arven acknowledging it’s dubious. briar wants to clear heath’s name.
And Heath has plenty of reasons to lie >"The author, Heath, pictured with the director of Uva Academy. The academy's generous funding made the Area Zero Expedition possible, and the data gathered has been shared with the academy in hopes that it will aid in the institution's research work and foster future generations of scholars and scientists."
imagine getting all that funding and backing, going down and exploring area zero only to return with barely anything to show for it. so Heath has the incentive to lie and say he found fantastical things down there
7 months ago
Anonymous
>the game consistently calls heath a fraud
Except it doesn't. Arven's story is about the Herba Mystica that they successfully planted outside of Area Zero and you go into Area Zero and confirm the layout, the pokemon found there, the paradoxes, the markings, the metal tablet, the crystals, everything.
The game confirms everything as real but you've arbitrarily chose the paradoxes as being the one thing that's fake for no reason.
That doesn't make sense.
>so Heath has the incentive to lie and say he found fantastical things down there
Anon, the most fantastical thing in the book is Terapagos, variants of pokemon aren't anything new after all, and looking at this post
>which created the paradoxes he saw but he never saw them because he faked the picture
people faked the bigfoot photo too, yes. and we also have the game that keeps saying heath is a fraud and briar wants to clear his name. >so Terapagos is also fake
no heath saw terapagos down there and drew a picture of it in disk form >but the paradoxes only have a 200 year life span before the energy that made them wears off and turns them to nothingness
there were never any paradoxes 200 years ago because heath made them up >because it's actually the professor's time machine that made the paradoxes, not Terapagos
terapagos is inside the time machine making the paradoxes. there’s a giant hexagon sphere in there >but the paradoxes they held near to their heart weren't manifested because she wished for a time machine
Sada believed past paradoxes are all ancient dinosaurs so naturally she thinks she needed a time machine to get them. That’s an obvious line of thinking, no?
You think Terapagos real, why? What made you think like that?
You haven't presented anything from the game that supports tour idea and that's the problem with imagination.
> imagination anons never actually bring up anything that supports their stance but rather just try to "debunk" time travel.
To be fair that's not completely true, they always cling to life to that one comment from Arven haha
Game clearly states is time travel
Logic clearly implies is imagination
Most likely the last DLC will reveal that ot is not Timt Travel but it was Imagination all along making it sound like is a great shock and surprise but actually the community realized it as soon as the game came out
>Logic clearly implies is imagination
Look, I'm not saying there's nothing about imagination involved, but at the end of the day it comes out as a cheap cover all explanation for everything we can't explain directly (because the story hasn't been completed and we're missing info) > I can't explain this, must be imagination!
Like this it's super easy to find "logical" explanations to everything.
>Usually the time travel anons cite the game while the imagination anons never actually bring up anything that supports their stance but rather just try to "debunk" time travel.
I mean, debunking Time travel can point to Imagination. Take Scream Tail's dex entry, for example - it is stated to be from over one billion years in the past. The problem there is that it would predate the first multicellular lifeforms to come into existence on the planet if that were true - Earth at the time period stated didn't have the oxygen-rich atmosphere that gave birth to more complex lifeforms yet. This means that Scream Tail cannot possibly be from where it's stated to be from, which means it didn't time travel as claimed - therefore, it had to have been conjured up or manifested through some other means. This, in turn, points to Imagination - it exists because the Professor believed it did (despite the archaeological record making it clear it couldn't), not because it was actually pulled through time.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Take Scream Tail's dex entry, for example - it is stated to be from over one billion years in the past
Anon, that's from Occulture. The thing the game says is bullshit.
And no, debunking time travel doesn't prove imagination, only evidence for imagination can point to imagination. That's how it works.
7 months ago
Anonymous
how come the professor has occulture among their research notes
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because they liked the book and anything related to it.
>There's also a handful of anons who completely deny any of this and claim that it is pure time travel and that paradox Pokémon are entirely natural, but I legitimately don't know how serious they are since they seem more interested in farming (you)s more than anything else.
If you're still here
These guys
You can Google it yourself if you want to find out
Should’ve done that beforehand
>Arven's lines at the end are there to tell the player that [HEADCANON]
timeanons will screech all day about everyone else making shit up then turn around and make shit up. i don't even give a toot one way or the other, but you have to see the hypocrisy right?
>There's also a handful of anons who completely deny any of this and claim that it is pure time travel and that paradox Pokémon are entirely natural
That would be me. >but I legitimately don't know how serious they are
Pokemon games are simple games made with simple stories for small children. Game Freak isn't crafting some deep hidden narrative you need to figure out. If the game says it's a time machine, it's a time machine; simple as that.
Time travel is the default, so unless it says in no uncertain words that it's imagination, it'll win. But it could just be both. The professor got the time machine, and pulled the past/future mons into the present.
Honestly, you can't really reconcile both ideas. Imagination in general is so fluid in terms of rules that it just makes a ton of plot holes.
I think the closest to it would be if the paradoxes were homunculi from the ancient civilisations that were pulled through time.
You still have the fake mon angle but it doesn't present errors and it also plays into the atlantis theory and Terapagos' alchemy theme
View imagination more as wish granting if anything. Like if Jirachi actually granted wishes in the games it would function the exact same as imagination.
Thing is, no one can decide on how it works. Is it passive, is it active, is it exact, does it corrupt the wish.
Without rules you can't really make a theory or every answer just becomes >IT DOES BECAUSE IT Does ALRIGHT!?
hasnt that literally been how people make the time machine work >how did the heath see a mirai/koraidon if the professor could only ever get two >if the pokemon were really from the past/future, how did they wind up in heath's time >where did said pokemon go after heath's time if they were there
the answer (historically) from people in the time travel camp is "its a time machine so it can just make up for anything we cant explain"
i dont really care which "side" you take on this but time travel isn't actually completely airtight as a theory, likewise there are still things things from the wish granting angle that have yet to be explained, like the whole other pokemon we don't know anything about, that being the weird pink peach thing. we still need to wait for dlc 2 like
No resolution until DLC2 comes out.
It has never been a question of if time travel is a real concept. The question is if Turo/Sada's machine is a time machine.
>hasnt that literally been how people make the time machine work
No? This entire time people have just been using the rules and mechanics of the time machine and time travel to make plausible situations. For example the machine can send and retrieve pokemon making it plausible that they were sent to the past and then pulled back hence why no one else could find them. That makes sense based on what we know.
With imagination it's entirely random which is why so many different versions of the imagination theory from Heath lying about the paradoxes to the paradoxes existing but having a 200 year half life without the machine.
>the answer (historically) from people in the time travel camp is "its a time machine so it can just make up for anything we cant explain"
No anon. That has never been the answer anyone has ever given for time travel, you're thinking of the imagination theory.
Because the game goes into detail regarding the time machine and how it functions we can pick out details like >pokemon can freely travel through time in a pokeball while humans can't >it used Terapagos' crystals as a power source >the book wasn't the key to shutting it down but the ID in the book >the capture process was incomplete when AI Sada caught the ball making time travel near instantaneous
You get the picture.
That said time travel isn't the only thing that has evidence behind it, the philosopher's stone theory has the similarity to the alchemical rebis and the Atlantis theory has files from the game.
Imagination has absolutely nothing.
>but time travel isn't actually completely airtight as a theory
Except it is. A lot of the "contradictions" that are brought up are usually based on misunderstandings or just outright false information like thinking the time machine was destroyed rather than shut down.
Anyway, the point is that imagination was just a lazy theory cobbled together because Khu used some weird hints and YouTubers exacerbating it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>This entire time people have just been using the rules and mechanics of the time machine and time travel to make plausible situations.
Then you are quite literally going >>IT DOES BECAUSE IT Does ALRIGHT!?
Until we have explicit confirmation of exactly how x, y and z thing went down, you are doing the exact same thing you're mocking imaginationgays for by making up rules and mechanics for the time machine that are never actually stated. Shut the frick up,
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Then you are quite literally going >>>IT DOES BECAUSE IT Does ALRIGHT!?
You're not very smart are you.
Again, it's all plausible based on what we know.
No one is saying something >it's a time machine, that means they can do anything!
They're saying >it's a time machine and this specific problem can be solved using its main function of sending things forwards and backwards through time.
It's not a very hard concept to grasp.
>Until we have explicit confirmation of exactly how x, y and z thing went down
Anon, they've already foreshadowed the use of the time machine again to explain the paradox in Arven's lines in the postgame. We basically have an outline of what's going to happen already and confirmation of a paradox not to mention the pokemon being catagorized "paradox" pokemon.
Which is another thing, there seems to be some confusion on what a paradox is with some people saying that because they were imagined that makes them a paradox, even though the idea of a paradox is rooted in contradiction and if they're just imagined into existence they just exist, there's nothing saying they can't.
Also this is a perfect example of that misunderstanding and false information I was talking about.
[...]
Uhm...
Honestly I'm not very versed in using Ganker or any board/social of any kind, so I haven't really read this kind of discussion over and over how you may have, but it is quite evident if you ask me that it is not time travel.
there are a lot of instances where it doesn't add up, either by pokedex entries, npc dialogues or pure logic like Suicune Raikou and Entei, they were born something at best 20 years ago in game time, there is no way they exhisted in ancient prehistory, but you know Pokémon is a multiverse and they don't actually give a frick about consistency (hisuian voltorb lmao) so that could pretty easily be a retcon and let's roll along with that.
This is like the stuff with SM and USUM, where Lusamine's design is OBVIOUSLY based on Pheromosa, Lillie too is clearly based on nihilego too, and while it makes sense in SM where Lusamine loves Ultra beasts, so it makes sense she wants to look like one, and make her daughter look like one herself, it is not for USUM, because in that games she hates them, but her design and lillie's still are the same. So what does this say? that their design is just a casuality non causality.
All that I'm sayign is that the games states that it's time travel while there are a lot of contraddiction, maybe it's not "imagination" or whatever, but there is a good chance that the final DLC MAY give another explanation stating that is not Time Travel, since it evidently is not, but if that's not the case then the game says TT so it's TT.
>or pure logic like Suicune Raikou and Entei, they were born something at best 20 years ago in game time
Not only were Entei, Raikou and Suicune NAMED during the events of the burned tower, not born, it happened 150 years before the story of Gen 2 and not 20.
Not to mention the expedition happened 200 years ago even giving it a gracious, I don't know, 27 years to match the real world passage of time you're still going to be out 23 years which would mean that if they didn't exist until the burned tower the sketch artist couldn't make up the combination beasts. Unless of course you're trying to suggest that the beasts as well as the swords were imaginary to begin with but that's a whole different can of worms.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>>it's a time machine and this specific problem can be solved using its main function of sending things forwards and backwards through time.
from what I understood, it can only bring things to the present (from the past/future, version dependent). wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future?
LITERALLY the game ends with it sending the AI to the past/future
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yes but before that it couldn't.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>LITERALLY the game ends with it sending the AI to the past/future
Dude, if you paid attention at all to the dialogue and events leading up to that scene, it's pretty obvious the AI was lying and didn't get sent anywhere - it went into the machine and destroyed itself, and it KNEW that was what was going to happen, which is why it took the book and embedded key card with it. No more AI, no more activation key, no more machine.
It's also pretty clear that Arven knew what it was doing as the scene unfolded as well. Read between the lines and follow the mood - sometimes things aren't literally what you're told they are.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>DUDE LMAO JUST BECAUSE THE GAME SAID IT DOESNT MEAN ITS TRUE
meds NOW
7 months ago
Anonymous
No, anon - because an unreliable narrator who has consistently lied to you throughout the entire game while posing as a dead person said it, it's not to be accepted at face value. The AI has every reason to lie (again) at that precise moment - to try to make things as easy on Arven as possible now that he's being left with absolutely no family.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future?
LITERALLY the game ends with it sending the AI to the past/future
The AI can't even leave it's cuck cave because it can't live without tera crystals, the other anon is right in that it just died, since the alternative is that it pops out in the "past/future" and instantly dies anyways
7 months ago
Anonymous
The only really known things about the time machine are >it can send humans to another point in time, but it would be a one way trip >it can send Pokeballs to another point in time and retrieve them
That's all that's really stated that the time machine does, or at least what the professor makes it do. Resident timegay here says that because the time machine can hypothetically do whatever it wants, any plot holes regarding time travel don't actually matter because lmao theres a time machine dumbass who cares about the writing.
The fact is there's no evidence to say the professor does anything besides capture Pokemon to bring to the present, so there's no actual explanation as to how Heath has seen a Raidon, nor does the professor have any motivation to do anything regarding the Heath expedition, but timegays ignore this because wowie zowie its a time machine!!!!!!!!!!
7 months ago
Anonymous
>wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future?
This is everything we can glean about the time machine from what's told and shown to us >it's a two way time machine that can send things to the past or future >it's a one way trip for humans but pokeballs can be retrieved >time travel happens faster than capturing a pokemon
To say it doesn't make sense requires adding restrictions that don't exist or you could be terminally moronic like this guy
The only really known things about the time machine are >it can send humans to another point in time, but it would be a one way trip >it can send Pokeballs to another point in time and retrieve them
That's all that's really stated that the time machine does, or at least what the professor makes it do. Resident timegay here says that because the time machine can hypothetically do whatever it wants, any plot holes regarding time travel don't actually matter because lmao theres a time machine dumbass who cares about the writing.
The fact is there's no evidence to say the professor does anything besides capture Pokemon to bring to the present, so there's no actual explanation as to how Heath has seen a Raidon, nor does the professor have any motivation to do anything regarding the Heath expedition, but timegays ignore this because wowie zowie its a time machine!!!!!!!!!!
7 months ago
Anonymous
>adding restrictions
Who's doing that? The time machine can do pretty much anything, however it's a tool and it's the person who uses the tool is what affects the story. The professor only ever uses the time machine to get Pokemon to the present, the AI only ever uses the time machine to go off far in time. Neither the professor nor the AI have any motivation to put Pokemon back in the time machine and send them elsewhere in time, nor is it stated they do this, especially in the case of the Mirai/Koraidon who we know explicitly have always been with the professor/AI and no one else.
This means it's impossible for Heath to have seen a Raidon using all the info we have in the story, and the only way time travel theory can justify it is by making up events that have never happened and have no evidence of happening. The professor only cares about the preset and the Pokemon they read about in the book, they don't care about the expedition itself nor Heath. >but someone else could use the time machine!
Except the AI took the only key that makes the time machine function with them in the portal.
We've done this song and dance for months, prove someone used the time machine the way you need it to for time travel to be air tight and you win. But you can't, that's why people call you a schizo.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Who's doing that?
Observe >The professor only ever uses the time machine to get Pokemon >Neither the professor nor the AI have any motivation to put Pokemon back in the time machine >Except the AI took the only key that makes the time machine function
This is you adding arbitrary restrictions.
The professor was never the only one who used the machine and we know this because they had an entire team the first time a Raidon was pulled through and the second time a Raidon was pulled through there was a mysterious assistant so clearly there are other people who know how it functions.
The professor doesn't need to be the one to send anything back to the past and I'm pretty sure hundreds of people now have said that Briar has a reason to go back 200 years not to mention she's going to be the reason you go back to Area Zero. We even know that there's already some kind of relation because the Area Zero books namedrop Terapagos which was only ever in the original manuscript which Briar has.
And finally, the book isn't the only key, anyone with an authorised ID could make it function and we know of at least three different people related to the Area Zero shit with Sada.
Clavell
The mystery assistant
The other professor
You're pulling things from thin air that the game doesn't say just becuase you don't like the idea of time travel even though the game beats it into your head that it's time travel.
>We've done this song and dance for months
I don't know what you're even talking about but if you genuinely believe that everyone using common sense is the same person then you're a genuine fricking moron. And on top of that this is just proving that you're all alone. That you're the sole imaginationgay.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>This is you adding arbitrary restrictions.
Do you understand what "arbitrary" means?
on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
There is nothing 'arbitrary' about the professor's personality, their motivation, nor how the time machine is explained to be used during the main story. The professor's turbo autism is the exact reason the time machine even exists, their character is central to the plot of this story, therefore trying to make up reasons the professor would do something OOC is spitting in the face of everything the story has set up. >The professor was never the only one who used the machine and we know this because they had an entire team the first time a Raidon was pulled through
That team disbanded after the Tera Orb was completed, Clavell's reaction to finding out the Raidon was from Area Zero reveals that while he may have known about the time machine itself, he wasn't actually around to see anything summoned. >>"Could this Pokémon have its origins within Area Zero...?" >>"Sada/Turo... Don't tell me you actually did it..."
The only other person in the story aware of the time machine and what it can do is Arven's mystery parent who fricks off after disagreeing with the professor like the AI does. >And finally, the book isn't the only key
The book is very explicitly stated to be the only key. If it was so easy to just make a brand new key out of thin air, why would the AI go through the trouble of asking for it directly? >>"But there is something we need first. Something that can be found within that lab. What we need...is the Scarlet Book." >>"Ah. So you took it from the lab, did you, Arven? This expedites things. Bring the Scarlet Book to the deepest depths of Area Zero.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Professor_Sada/Quotes
No other character has any reason to mess with the time machine. Finally, acting like only a single person disagrees with you is pathetic.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Do you understand what "arbitrary" means?
Do you? Because everything you've said doesn't have a reason behind it beyond >NOOO IT MAKES SENSE AND I DON'T WANT IT TO! >There is nothing 'arbitrary' about the professor's personality
I'm talking about YOU, not the professor but YOU. You're the one making shit up that hasn't ever been mentioned by the game. >That team disbanded after the Tera Orb was completed,
The team disbanded completely after the time machine was completed you dumbass. >I need more people. More time. That man walked out not long after the boy was born. >I need another set of hands, but could they be trusted? And how long would it take them to even understand? If only there were two of me.
Arven was born AFTER the first Raidon meaning other people were still there.
>The only other person in the story aware of the time machine and what it can do is Arven's mystery parent who fricks off after disagreeing with the professor like the AI does.
Mystery parent? It's Sada or Turo depending on the version.
And you're still forgetting the mystery assistant. >My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own.
A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled. >We even brought in a second Koraidon via the machine—though this one has proved aggressive.
And we know that isn't the AI because not onky would you not describe an AI assistant like that but the technical knowhow to make one doesn't exist in the present day. Which was confirmed BY the AI itself. If the professor were acting on their own then the AI wouldn't have been created.
>The book is very explicitly stated to be the only key
There's literally nothing in the game saying that. You didn't even find a quote that comes close to that because all you can glean from that quote is that the book was the only one the AI knew of on account of being an AI copy that has all of the professor's knowledge.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>>NOOO IT MAKES SENSE AND I DON'T WANT IT TO!
Except it doesn't make any sense, you've provided no proof to your claims, you're going "just trust me bro this totally happened" and getting mad when someone asks for proof. >The team disbanded completely after the time machine was completed you dumbass.
Going off every piece of dialog in the game it seems like the only people around for the first Raidon summoning were the OG professor and Arven's other parent. Again, Clavell doesn't know anything abut the Raidon despite being on the Tera Orb project with the prof. The fact that the prof only needs "another set of hands" makes me think they really only needed one other person to replace the missing parent. >It's Sada or Turo depending on the version.
I mean probably, but they're unnamed so who actually knows, this doesn't matter too much unless they appear in the story though. >And we know that isn't the AI
Wait, what the frick? You actually think another person was in area zero and it wasn't the AI? Even though the AI says outright they worked on the time machine with the professor? Forget making up facts about the time machine, you people are making up entirely new characters for some reason. Mental. >You didn't even find a quote that comes close to that because all you can glean from that quote is that the book was the only one the AI knew of
Why would the AI, who at this point of the story is convincingly cosplaying the real professor, not know how to get a replacement ID? They're literally in contact with Clavell when you see them, if we could just make a new ID on the spot the AI only needs to go >Clavell my old friend can you make a brand new ID for me I seem to have lost it somewhere
And not needed to put children in danger to get a very specific book, it's almost like the prof's childhood book is the only key that could ever exist. Frick, this is so stupid I'm gonna make it a 2 parter hang on
7 months ago
Anonymous
Okay about the key thing, the professor not only made MULTIPLE failsafes put in place to stop the time machine from being shut down, they also invented fricking Poke-Ball locks specifically so they could forcibly deny access to the Pokemon of anyone that might have tried to stop them.
And yet you really and truly believe that anyone could just generate a fake and make the time machine work again?
No, that makes no fricking sense, the professor is extremely deranged and obsessed with their paradise project, and they've set it up so only "they" can be the one who shuts the time machine down, it takes the player having one of the professor's own Pokeballs to save the day, because the professor did absolutely everything they could to stop anyone except them from messing with the time machine.
Saying that the book can't be the only key is not only false, it's blatantly ignoring everything the game has set up about the professor and the time machine.
The book is gone, the time machine is DONE.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Anways I have said my piece, I didn't realize how far gone timegays had become in the months it'd been since I've visited a lore thread, all I can say is I WILL be sitting pretty when DLC2 drops and you fricks (all two of you) are blown out of existence because this is ridiculous.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Except it doesn't make any sense
Yeah, to you, because you keep on adding arbitrary restrictions like "only the professor can use it", "there's only one key" that the game doesn't support.
Hell we don't even know if the thing is as hard to turn on as it is to turn off because all we know is that the PPP existed to prevent it from being shut down along with the pokeball lock system. >Going off every piece of dialog in the game it seems like the only people around for the first Raidon summoning were the OG professor and Arven's other parent
No. How you could even come to that conclusion when the other professor is only mentioned in log 7 and an entire team was mentioned in log 2?
This is what I mean, you're filling in gaps with your own headcanon just so you can make it make less sense.
>You actually think another person was in area zero and it wasn't the AI?
Did you even pay attention to the game? >An AI is an artificial intelligence created BY A HUMAN BEING. A computer draws on the original professor's knowledge and memories to calculate all of my thoughts and actions. The results of those calculations are expressed by this mechanical body, built to resemble the professor in every way. Humanity DOES NOT, IN FACT, POSSESS THE KNOWLEDGE TO DEVELOP SUCH A SOPHISTICATED AI AT PRESENT.
Now, keep in mind that the AI, for all intents and purposes, is an exact duplicate of the professor.
It would know if the professor knew how to make an AI beforehand, instead, it confirms that no human knows how. Get it?
If the professor was acting solo then the AI couldn't exist meaning that the mystery assistant can't be the AI.
Unless you're trying to say the AI was proofed up out of thing fricking air.
>Even though the AI says outright they worked on the time machine with the professor?
Yes, and you know what that means based on what we know? That means that there was a period where there was the professor, the AI and the mystery assistant all working together.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Now, keep in mind that the AI, for all intents and purposes, is an exact duplicate of the professor. >It would know if the professor knew how to make an AI beforehand, instead, it confirms that no human knows how. Get it? >If the professor was acting solo then the AI couldn't exist meaning that the mystery assistant can't be the AI.
It's funny how many people just gloss over that.
I mean, the AI said it right to our faces and people just ignore the importance of it.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Unless you're trying to say the AI was proofed up out of thing fricking air.
this is exactly what happened, the professor wanted a double and terapagos granted that wish, it explains why
1. the AI is more advanced than anything regular humans could make
2. the ai is a perfect copy of the professor right down to their clothes when this provides no real advantage (there's no reason why they should be walking around and talking like a person instead of being a hologram or just trapped in a computer like a regular AI)
i'd also say the ai is a second professor because the professor at this point has been abandoned by everyone, including their spouse, so they felt they could only trust their own ability, on top of no one else understanding their goals and motivation, as said in the log thing.
a random third dude who pops up after the second professor leaves, but goes away before the ai appears, even though the ai says it developed the time machine with the professor, makes no sense at all
6 months ago
Anonymous
>the AI is more advanced than anything regular humans could make
That's not even right. The AI said it was too advanced for humans in the present day, not that regular humans couldn't build it. Not to mention it confirms that it was built by a human and not wished up.
>a random third dude who pops up after the second professor leaves, but goes away before the ai appears, even though the ai says it developed the time machine with the professor, makes no sense at all
That's because we don't have the whole story yet. Despite that it makes more sense than saying it was wished up or that the professor, a modern day human who couldn't have had the knowledge to build it, built it.
You can't take things at a surface level anon, you need to look at it as a whole.
6 months ago
Anonymous
i'd still say a 3rd professor is completely unsupported by the game while the AI being wished for fits right in with everything else people say about imagination. the professor even kept logs of stuff like the pokeball lock system, but another professor, nor their developmental logs of the AI exist. they just want a copy and get exactly that
6 months ago
Anonymous
>That’s not even right
6 months ago
Anonymous
And the full line.
does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI at present
As a whole anon. Taking it piece by piece only means you'll get something wrong.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Then he goes on to say that the crystals have made that possible
6 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, because the crystals enable time travel.
6 months ago
Anonymous
No, the time machine does.
How did the AI get here without a time machine?
6 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, the crystals power the time machine ergo it enables time travel. >How did the AI get here without a time machine?
There is a time machine.
6 months ago
Anonymous
The time machine was finished after the AI was created though.
What you’re saying makes no sense
6 months ago
Anonymous
>The time machine was finished after the AI was created though
Can you please play the game.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I did.
Provide proof which says otherwise instead of “please play the game”
6 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, I'm not going to do that because everyone who's played the game knows you're wrong.
Instead I'm going ask you to show me where it says the time machine was built after the AI and let you figure out the rest.
If you don't then that's the end of your argument.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>No, YOU need to provide proof, not me!
Not how it works, sperg
I accept your concession
6 months ago
Anonymous
So you admit you're wrong.
Good, now you can stop posting.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Nah, I’m right.
The professor was able to build the AI because of the crystals, and with the help of the AI it built the time machine.
Feel free to prove me wrong (you evidently can’t)
6 months ago
Anonymous
Imaginationgays everyone.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>I-imaginationgay
moron
Just shut the frick up if you refuse to refute this properly
>The time machine was finished after the AI was created though.
Who the frick told you that?
You’re a fricktard too.
>ERM YOURE WRONG. PROVIDE PROOF AS TO WHY? N-NO, I REFUSE!
6 months ago
Anonymous
Here's the thing anon, no one is going to take you serious because you're arguing something so astronomically fricking stupid, like saying 2+2 is 3, while being 100% serious about it.
If you post your proof you'll know why you're wrong but you won't because you're imaginationgay and research is the bane of your existence.
6 months ago
Anonymous
If you don’t have proof that I’m wrong, then stop seething and stop replying.
You’ve had enough time to, yet you refuse because you’re only here to bait and shitpost.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>If you don’t have proof that I’m wrong
You're the only person who thinks you're right. There's no reason to prove it to you because you're just being astronomically moronic. >yet you refuse because you’re only here to bait and shitpost.
Like I said, no one is going to do it. They're just going to call you moronic and ignore you. Even now I'm just giving you attention as pity.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>still no proof
Continue to throw your tantrum
6 months ago
Anonymous
>and with the help of the AI it built the time machine.
Anon, answer me this, when was the time machine built?
6 months ago
Anonymous
After the AI was completed, is this so hard to understand?
6 months ago
Anonymous
That doesn't answer the question but okay, let me word it like this.
Do you know the order of events according to the area zero logs?
6 months ago
Anonymous
>when was the time machine built?
according to timetravel anons, it doesn't matter when anything happened because time travel
6 months ago
Anonymous
He got proven wrong but just ignored it
6 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, just stop samegayging. You're not fooling anyone
6 months ago
Anonymous
Dumbass. All you can do is lie
6 months ago
Anonymous
I mean, you are because the professor says they need help to finish their work on the time machine.
But they don't build it. They mention that they wanted someone like themselves to help them and the AI kind of just showed up.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Wish power
6 months ago
Anonymous
Why did he need to wish for an ai when he could directly wish for the time machine
6 months ago
Anonymous
because he wanted an assistant and he’s a narcissist
6 months ago
Anonymous
But he didnt need it to have a time machine
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Provide proof which says otherwise instead of “please play the game”
ok
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Area_Zero_journals
the ai wasn't around until after the professor had the first raidon in addition to several other unspecified paradox mons according to their own journals, meaning the time machine couldn't have been nonfunctional until after the ai was invented
6 months ago
Anonymous
You should have just let him stew in his anger.
6 months ago
Anonymous
if he was illiterate enough to miss this the first time through he's illiterate enough to miss it again
6 months ago
Anonymous
This would prove me wrong if it had dates
Nice try though!
6 months ago
Anonymous
why would their journals not be in chronological order
6 months ago
Anonymous
wait a second your "dates lmao" excuse doesn't even work because lab #4's second journal completely invalidates it
"My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own.
A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
We even brought in a second Koraidon via the machine—though this one has proved aggressive. " >professor uses the time machine to bring a raidon to the present >professor gets a new assistant in the form of an ai they developed using area zero's tera crystals >the pair use the machine to bring a second raidon to the present
6 months ago
Anonymous
That's not the only one either >I was expecting one new life to treasure, but what fortune to be blessed with this gift as well! >I need more people. More time. That man walked out not long after the boy was born
Clearly journal 5 happens before journal 7.
Spotted journal 2 and 3 while I went to look for those too. > I secured corporate funding for my research and made a laboratory in the lighthouse near Cabo Poco.
Someday, though, I'll return to the crater and resume my study of these crystals. >At last I can resume work on the Tera Project! >I'll move my research to the Zero Lab this month.
Anyone who says they don't go in order is a fricking moron because you don't need a date.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Are there dates mentionned in any pokemon games? I dont remember
6 months ago
Anonymous
Mew birth.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Ill accept it but if they didnt bring it up in later games its like animals existing in the pokemon world
6 months ago
Anonymous
Nope, only in gen 1 which has been retconned later.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Heh.
Imaginationgays think that Arven was unbirthed
6 months ago
Anonymous
>The time machine was finished after the AI was created though.
Who the frick told you that?
6 months ago
Anonymous
6 months ago
Anonymous
t. Heath
6 months ago
Anonymous
Not if it comes from the future. The time machine can still be achieved a century later and the ia can still come to the future
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Why would the AI, who at this point of the story is convincingly cosplaying the real professor, not know how to get a replacement ID?
It's almost as if there's something preventing it from acting in a way that would result in the time machine being turned off.
As if there's some kind of, I don't know... Protection Protocol. >And not needed to put children in danger
Don't be a fricking idiot, it contacted you specifically because it saw you were travelling with the Raidon. >You appear in any number of clips from security camera footage together with Koraidon."
And anyone else would have failed because of the pokeball lock system. The Raidon was the only pokemon not under control of the PPP that could have fought against it.
>And yet you really and truly believe that anyone could just generate a fake
No one said anything about generating a fake, the frick are you even talking about? >No, that makes no fricking sense,
Know why? Because you're the one making that up!
No one said anything about making a fake, this is exactly what I was talking about before, you make up these moronic scenarios that you know don't make sense and posit them as your opposition's argument when no one but you said it.
>Saying that the book can't be the only key is not only false
How is it false when we know for a fact that it's not the book itself that's special? >To stop the time machine, you will need to use the professor's ID, which has been embedded within the Scarlet Book.
To top it off it was the safest bet for the AI to get the book because they knew it would be in the lighthouse >But there is something we need first. Something that can be found within that lab. What we need...is the Scarlet Book
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Don't be a fricking idiot, it contacted you specifically because it saw you were travelling with the Raidon. >>You appear in any number of clips from security camera footage together with Koraidon." >And anyone else would have failed because of the pokeball lock system
That's actually a good catch. I never thought much about the pokeball lock system until the very end but the AI would have known about it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I didn't realize how far gone timegays had become in the months it'd been since I've visited a lore thread >in the months it'd been since I've visited a lore thread
You literally admitted to being a regular in lore threads here you dumb motherfricker.
>adding restrictions
Who's doing that? The time machine can do pretty much anything, however it's a tool and it's the person who uses the tool is what affects the story. The professor only ever uses the time machine to get Pokemon to the present, the AI only ever uses the time machine to go off far in time. Neither the professor nor the AI have any motivation to put Pokemon back in the time machine and send them elsewhere in time, nor is it stated they do this, especially in the case of the Mirai/Koraidon who we know explicitly have always been with the professor/AI and no one else.
This means it's impossible for Heath to have seen a Raidon using all the info we have in the story, and the only way time travel theory can justify it is by making up events that have never happened and have no evidence of happening. The professor only cares about the preset and the Pokemon they read about in the book, they don't care about the expedition itself nor Heath. >but someone else could use the time machine!
Except the AI took the only key that makes the time machine function with them in the portal.
We've done this song and dance for months, prove someone used the time machine the way you need it to for time travel to be air tight and you win. But you can't, that's why people call you a schizo.
>We've done this song and dance for months
Talk about being far gone, you can't even remember what you said when it's right in front of you, no wonder a children's game is filtering you this hard. Your attention span is shot.
Anyway, whether you like it or not the game cemented in stone that it's a time machine. They're not going to retcon literally everything about the story and make up some plot hole ridden excuse in the last five minutes just because some autist is sperging out on the Internet.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>No other character has any reason to mess with the time machine.
Literally Briar, her whole motivation is getting people to believe Heath. >Finally, acting like only a single person disagrees with you is pathetic.
You said it yourself >We've done this song and dance for months
"We" refers to me and you. I don't frequent lore threads very often so I can't be the other party to butt heads with but that clearly means that you're the only dumbass on your side.
[...]
Oh also even if the time machine wasn't permanently shut down Brair still couldn't affect anything meaningfully since both existing Raidons are in the player's possession. I guess if she really wanted to she could send the completed book to Heath but that doesn't actually complete her goal of proving him right, nor does it change the fact that the paradox pokemon themselves are generated from the professor's imagination.
>Oh also even if the time machine wasn't permanently shut down Brair still couldn't affect anything meaningfully since both existing Raidons are in the player's possession
Yeah it's not like there they aren't setting up a situation where yours is stolen from you or anything like that.
Next time you post, learn how English works and play the game instead of being a fricking moron.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Yeah it's not like there they aren't setting up a situation where yours is stolen from you or anything like that.
yeah dude the lady with no battling ability is gonna run up to the champion of paldea and steal the single strongest pokemon in the game right from under their nose, and then she's gonna use her super hacker skills to turn the time machine back on and send your doglizard (whos been so polite and hasnt escaped on his own) back to heath because that totally proves heath right, somehow
6 months ago
Anonymous
Now define reason and system in that context of logic
7 months ago
Anonymous
>This is you adding arbitrary restrictions.
Do you understand what "arbitrary" means?
on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
There is nothing 'arbitrary' about the professor's personality, their motivation, nor how the time machine is explained to be used during the main story. The professor's turbo autism is the exact reason the time machine even exists, their character is central to the plot of this story, therefore trying to make up reasons the professor would do something OOC is spitting in the face of everything the story has set up. >The professor was never the only one who used the machine and we know this because they had an entire team the first time a Raidon was pulled through
That team disbanded after the Tera Orb was completed, Clavell's reaction to finding out the Raidon was from Area Zero reveals that while he may have known about the time machine itself, he wasn't actually around to see anything summoned. >>"Could this Pokémon have its origins within Area Zero...?" >>"Sada/Turo... Don't tell me you actually did it..."
The only other person in the story aware of the time machine and what it can do is Arven's mystery parent who fricks off after disagreeing with the professor like the AI does. >And finally, the book isn't the only key
The book is very explicitly stated to be the only key. If it was so easy to just make a brand new key out of thin air, why would the AI go through the trouble of asking for it directly? >>"But there is something we need first. Something that can be found within that lab. What we need...is the Scarlet Book." >>"Ah. So you took it from the lab, did you, Arven? This expedites things. Bring the Scarlet Book to the deepest depths of Area Zero.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Professor_Sada/Quotes
No other character has any reason to mess with the time machine. Finally, acting like only a single person disagrees with you is pathetic.
Oh also even if the time machine wasn't permanently shut down Brair still couldn't affect anything meaningfully since both existing Raidons are in the player's possession. I guess if she really wanted to she could send the completed book to Heath but that doesn't actually complete her goal of proving him right, nor does it change the fact that the paradox pokemon themselves are generated from the professor's imagination.
7 months ago
Anonymous
At the end of the day, the real issue here is that just about all imagination theorists are moronic beyond comprehension.
I mean, this is a children's game, it's not that hard to understand but the whole point of this theory was to just be a fluid answer to everything without thinking hard about it.
Like I said before the three other theories can work and they don't actually contradict each other but imagination just presents a problem on its own.
Now, stop posting.
If you're not going to add anything of worth to this discussion other than complaining that no one can see what you want them to see then just leave. These threads were better before you people came here because we just talked about game lore, not headcanon.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>These threads were better before you people came here because we just talked about game lore, not headcanon.
Yeah, I hate when people are discussing Terapagos and Dokutaru and how their wish powers work and then timegays shit the whole thread up.
7 months ago
Anonymous
See, it's this kind of thing that makes everyone hate you.
If imagination is real, it's probably more of a thing where Terapagos can sense strong desires within its range and grant them. Dokutaro would probably be similar, but have drawbacks like the toxic chain.
Game clearly states is time travel
Logic clearly implies is imagination
Most likely the last DLC will reveal that ot is not Timt Travel but it was Imagination all along making it sound like is a great shock and surprise but actually the community realized it as soon as the game came out
How is stating a fact seething?
The game has a mystery or something that's unverified and you find the truth.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Correct and we will find the truth in the second DLC when we go back to Area Zero to find the treasure, right anon?
7 months ago
Anonymous
The truth about Terapagos and the history of the crater.
The truth about the paradoxes has already been covered.
7 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but you're seeing it wrong
Paradoxes, Ogerpon and Blueberry are three different stories that will all eventually tie into the greater mystery of Terapagos with that being the only thing that currently connects them.
7 months ago
Anonymous
So in other words, the mystery is still going on.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Of Terapagos.
Not the paradoxes, we already know that Terapagos and it's crystals were used to power the time machine and pull pokemon from the past and future.
That story is over.
What's next is the story of Blueberry and finally the return to Area Zero that brings the underlying connection to Terapagos to a close.
Here's the thing anon, if it's imagination then the whole game can't happen because the book shouldn't exist.
Uhm...
Honestly I'm not very versed in using Ganker or any board/social of any kind, so I haven't really read this kind of discussion over and over how you may have, but it is quite evident if you ask me that it is not time travel.
there are a lot of instances where it doesn't add up, either by pokedex entries, NPC dialogues or pure logic like Suicune Raikou and Entei, they were born something at best 20 years ago in game time, there is no way they exhisted in ancient prehistory, but you know Pokémon is a multiverse and they don't actually give a frick about consistency (hisuian voltorb lmao) so that could pretty easily be a retcon and let's roll along with that.
This is like the stuff with SM and USUM, where Lusamine's design is OBVIOUSLY based on Pheromosa, Lillie too is clearly based on nihilego too, and while it makes sense in SM where Lusamine loves Ultra beasts, so it makes sense she wants to look like one, and make her daughter look like one herself, it is not for USUM, because in that games she hates them, but her design and lillie's still are the same. So what does this say? that their design is just a casuality non causality.
All that I'm sayign is that the games states that it's time travel while there are a lot of contraddiction, maybe it's not "imagination" or whatever, but there is a good chance that the final DLC MAY give another explanation stating that is not Time Travel, since it evidently is not, but if that's not the case then the game says TT so it's TT.
anonchama you kicked the bee's nest, a lot of people have reached the same conclusion you have, that there's more to the story that they're letting on, but there's a camp of people here who have spent ages fiercely denying that there's anything more to the story than time travel. i'd suggest you bail on these threads before you lose your mind debating in circles with these people
Bro. None of this is right. >there are a lot of instances where it doesn't add up, either by pokedex entries,
There are no pokedex entries that say that. If you're the anon who says "but iron hands in Scarlet references the Violet Occulture!" no shit, pokemon isn't new to referencing the opposite version. They've been doing shit like that since RS. >NPC dialogues or pure logic like Suicune Raikou and Entei, they were born something at best 20 years ago in game time,
That's 150 years and no one in GSC or HGSS say that's when they were born.
The entire game doesn't say that though. Most of it does, because you're meant to think it's time travel.
The game casts doubt to that, because that's not what it actually is.
I'm not going to say it's imagination, but I will say that from a narrative point of view, it's not time travel. Otherwise, there'd be no need to bring attention to how it doesn't actually make sense.
>Otherwise, there'd be no need to bring attention to how it doesn't actually make sense.
Unless it's Game Freak going "uhhhh we know this doesn't make sense but we acknowledge that so it's okay xD"
>The game casts doubt to that
This is the mistake you're making, at no point does the game cast doubt on the fact that it's a time machine. Arven says its weird that the paradoxes were seen 200 years ago but that doesn't contradict the function of a time machine that can send things through time.
If he had said something like >wait how are they in the book? >my mom/dad's machine can only bring things to the present not to the past
Then you could say that it was casting doubt on it.
Arven's lines at the end are there to tell the player that the story isn't over yet and the time machine will be used again to explain it, not that everything and the theme of the game was wrong.
To use another game as an example Metroid Prime lore frequently mentions "the worm". That's foreshadowing to Metroid Prime the creature.
By your logic they would be two different creatures.
We'll find out in the dlc.
That's the point of theorycrafting anon, we don't retcon what's there with arbitrary nonsense, we use what's there to form a possible narrative.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, we’ll find out how it’s imagination in the DLC since khu said so
>Arven's lines at the end are there to tell the player that [HEADCANON]
timeanons will screech all day about everyone else making shit up then turn around and make shit up. i don't even give a toot one way or the other, but you have to see the hypocrisy right?
Using the game is hardly making things up anon, as much as you want to screech and whine about it.
I take you know now too because you aren't even trying to argue a stance anymore, nor are you even trying to samegay. You're just angry that you don't have a solid argument against any of this.
Yeah, we’ll find out how it’s imagination in the DLC since khu said so
Khu never said it was imagination.
The closest thing to that would be the "use your imagination" hint referring to how the body parts of the swords he posted were part of an imagined pokemon.
Which do not exist mind you.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Khu’s statements basically point out that it’s not time travel
Great tusk/iron treads not looking the same as the ones we see among other things
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Khu’s statements basically point out that it’s not time travel
Khu hasn't made any statements. That's why the only thing people can reference from him is the King of Thorn hint, referring to the professor, and the swords. >Great tusk/iron treads not looking the same as the ones we see among other things
The sketch is a rough sketch from memory and the pictures are exact. You people try that stance all them time and only prove that you can't discern features properly so don't bother posting the usual lines on the picture image.
Even if what you said was true it would only disprove time travel, it wouldn't act as evidence in game that imagination is a possibility.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>the pictures are exact.
They aren’t
Khu stated also stated that this was intentional
6 months ago
Anonymous
>you aren't even trying to argue a stance anymore, nor are you even trying to samegay.
>Arven's lines at the end are there to tell the player that [HEADCANON]
timeanons will screech all day about everyone else making shit up then turn around and make shit up. i don't even give a toot one way or the other, but you have to see the hypocrisy right?
was literally my first post in this thread, every post calling you out wasn't written by your one boogeyman >Using the game is hardly making things up anon, as much as you want to screech and whine about it.
that's what everyone on either side does, post quotes and text straight from the game and then INTERPRET them, then screech about how their interpretation is cold fact while the other side's is schizo babble. interpretation is just that: filling in the blanks with your own headcanon through critical thinking, it's what we all learned to do for elementary school book reports. if one person thought the curtains being blue represented the character's sadness, and one person thought it represented the sky, they didn't throw a shitfit about how everyone else was moronic. or maybe (you) did, i don't know. but well adjusted people would discuss their theories and hear out their peers.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>was literally my first post in this thread
That's usually the excuse but the IP count never went up. >that's what everyone on either side does, post quotes and text straight from the game and then INTERPRET them,
Yes, everyone, except for imaginationgays.
There's nothing in game saying that dreams are brought to life and anything close to that is contradicted by the fact that there's an made up pokemon in the book that doesn't actually exist, the datamine doesn't have enough spaces for both.
There's nothing saying that Heath lied, you spend Arven's story and. the entire last story exploring area zero confirming the book as fact.
You have nothing and I don't see why you need to continue this facade because it clearly irritates you.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Not him, but it did go up since I last looked at it
6 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, there have been several new posts since his "first".
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Yes, everyone, except for imaginationgays.
Christ, you are really fishing for (you)’s
Yes let’s ignore the mountains of discussion they had in previous threads, the images consisting of ingame information
That anon was right about you being a screeching autist
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Yes let’s ignore the mountains of discussion they had in previous threads, the images consisting of ingame information
From everyone except imaginationgays.
I don't see how you can hold this idea that you people even make the attempt when in this very thread you're foaming at the mouth trying to convince people you're right instead of posting anything from the game.
I mean, how many times have you been asked to post something concrete from the game and you've refused? Even now all you have is a "no u".
You're only proving the point. That imaginationgays just post to disrupt threads rather than having an honest interest in the lore.
It's sad to be honest because you don't even enjoy this.
6 months ago
Anonymous
You can check the archive for these images and posts, but I know you won’t since you’ve been baiting the whole time like a rabbid autist
6 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, unlike the people you've been talking to I frequent lore threads. I know the ins and outs of the ever changing imagination theory from the power half life and imagination permanence machine and Heath lied to the 3d printer time machine.
I don't need to go into the archive because I already know that you don't use the game to support your stance. Then there's this thread itself as real time evidence that you don't because even now you'd rather attack me than prove your argument.
Again, you're only proving that imaginationgays just disrupt threads.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>I won’t, I don’t need to!
You could’ve just not replied, but instead you decided to prove that you’re baiting
6 months ago
Anonymous
>That's usually the excuse but the IP count never went up.
apologies,
>>it's a time machine and this specific problem can be solved using its main function of sending things forwards and backwards through time.
from what I understood, it can only bring things to the present (from the past/future, version dependent). wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future?
was actually my first post and the quoted was my second. i've been lurking and reading mostly and forgot i asked a question earlier >There's nothing in game saying ...
you really have selective reading, huh? I JUST said there's nothing in game saying anyone's theory is true, everyone is just interpreting the text. you just have a particular stick up your ass about how your theory is right and all the text is interpreted in one particular way, while everyone else's theories are 100% made up bullshit. you conveniently neglected to reply to the rest of my post stating how actual people discuss interpreting media. >You have nothing and I don't see why you need to continue this facade because it clearly irritates you.
i don't know what facade you're talking about, i don't have a problem with time travel or imagination, i have a problem with (You)
6 months ago
Anonymous
>apologies,
>>it's a time machine and this specific problem can be solved using its main function of sending things forwards and backwards through time.
from what I understood, it can only bring things to the present (from the past/future, version dependent). wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future? # was actually my first post and the quoted was my second. i've been lurking and reading mostly and forgot i asked a question earlier
Anon, just tell the truth. You're the only imaginationgay here. > I JUST said there's nothing in game saying anyone's theory is true
I don't particularly care what you belive especially not this pathetic excuse for an argument because every other theory has evidence in game to support it except for imagination.
Time travel is obvious.
Atlantis has the name for area zero in the data and the alchemy theme of terastalization and Terapagos.
What does imagination have?
>you just have a particular stick up your ass about how your theory is right
You say that but what theory do you even think I support? I haven't given you anything to go on, you might assume that it's time travel but the fact of the matter is that the only reason I'm talking about it is because you constantly get information about the game wrong in order to "debunk" it much like your original post where you believed the time machine could only bring things to the present despite the fact that it would have to be a two way time machine to send and retrieve pokeballs but I digress.
Unlike you I'm here to discuss possible scenarios, not get mad because people poked holes in something I believe in.
>i have a problem with (You)
If you have a problem with basic discussion the the issue here lies with you and your inability to accept different ideas and contradiction in your own.
I suggest you leave these threads for people with thicker skin.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Yes, everyone, except for imaginationgays.
>Yes let’s ignore the mountains of discussion they had in previous threads, the images consisting of ingame information
From everyone except imaginationgays.
I don't see how you can hold this idea that you people even make the attempt when in this very thread you're foaming at the mouth trying to convince people you're right instead of posting anything from the game.
I mean, how many times have you been asked to post something concrete from the game and you've refused? Even now all you have is a "no u".
You're only proving the point. That imaginationgays just post to disrupt threads rather than having an honest interest in the lore.
It's sad to be honest because you don't even enjoy this.
>From everyone except imaginationgays.
Anon, unlike the people you've been talking to I frequent lore threads. I know the ins and outs of the ever changing imagination theory from the power half life and imagination permanence machine and Heath lied to the 3d printer time machine.
I don't need to go into the archive because I already know that you don't use the game to support your stance. Then there's this thread itself as real time evidence that you don't because even now you'd rather attack me than prove your argument.
Again, you're only proving that imaginationgays just disrupt threads.
>imaginationgays just disrupt threads.
why are you even here then? your theory is so concrete, watertight, and impossible to refute, and the only legitimate discussion is had by people who support that theory, so why not make a discord group where you can jerk each other off in your echo chamber
6 months ago
Anonymous
>and the only legitimate discussion is had by people who support that theory,
My dude, the first post literally says >everyone, except for imaginationgays.
Do you know what that means?
That means that YOU are the problem here and that YOU want it to be an echo chamber for imagination while he's open to other theories as long as it works with what's in game.
It's like you people genuinely don't understand why everyone fricking hates you.
6 months ago
Anonymous
He's here to shitpost anon. Honestly it's not worth actually trying to speak sense into him.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>he's open to other theories as long as it works with what's in game.
Every time someone tries to discuss something other than timetravel he just yells about how the imagination boogeyman is changing the theory as some kind of gotcha instead of different anons coming to different conclusions. If he were really interested in other theories, he wouldn't be seething this hard at other theories.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Every time someone tries to discuss something other than timetravel he just yells about how the imagination boogeyman is changing the theory
Talk about dishonest whenever that happens in these threads it's always, without fail, a revision to imagination.
Atlantis and tome travel have been true to form from the very start.
Look at the amount of shit you can find in the archive about Heath alone >the paradox mon were imagined by Heath! >Heath lied and made them up! >Heath saw regular pokemon and Terapagos corrupted them! >Heath imagined them but they weren't permanent
And yes, the first and last ones are literally two different ones.
It's absolutely fricking absurd how none of you can decide on anything because the imagination theory doesn't follow any kind of rules or restrictions. It's like Duelist Kingdom Yugioh "if you can bullshit it you'll win" rules.
Actually, do you even know what the other theories even are or are you too up your own ass to accept anything other than imagination?
6 months ago
Anonymous
>It's absolutely fricking absurd how none of you can decide on anything because the imagination theory doesn't follow any kind of rules or restrictions.
okay you're just being willfully obtuse at this point. The Imagination Theory (TM) isn't as you say it is, all those points on Heath you referenced for example IS the theory crafting, critical thinking, new ideas i'm talking about.
>he wouldn't be seething this hard at other theories.
Who's angry about other theories other than you?
Even in imagination vs time travel threads no one is angry about imagination as much as its just discussing the various contradictions and plotholes that arise because of it.
Atlantis doesn't get much discussion and usually amounts to someone saying >atlantis bros we won
Or someone trying to reconcile it with time travel aka actual discussion.
Imaginationgays on the other hand are hostile to just about everything and I don't understand why. It's not like other theories haven't been debunked before and their followers don't fly into a rage but you, you just lose it which is odd since you clearly aren't putting a lot of thought into the imagination theory.
>Who's angry about other theories other than you? >Even in imagination vs time travel threads no one is angry about imagination >Imaginationgays on the other hand are hostile to just about everything and I don't understand why
are we in the same thread right now? you're farming for (Yous) by sperging out at any whiff of text that suggests it might be under this big imagination umbrella you've concocted >you, you just lose it which is odd since you clearly aren't putting a lot of thought into the imagination theory.
i already told you, i'm not for any theory, i'm fascinated by your mental gymnastics. thanks for an entertaining afternoon :^)
6 months ago
Anonymous
>he wouldn't be seething this hard at other theories.
Who's angry about other theories other than you?
Even in imagination vs time travel threads no one is angry about imagination as much as its just discussing the various contradictions and plotholes that arise because of it.
Atlantis doesn't get much discussion and usually amounts to someone saying >atlantis bros we won
Or someone trying to reconcile it with time travel aka actual discussion.
Imaginationgays on the other hand are hostile to just about everything and I don't understand why. It's not like other theories haven't been debunked before and their followers don't fly into a rage but you, you just lose it which is odd since you clearly aren't putting a lot of thought into the imagination theory.
The game also says it's a time machine and also says Clavell is Cassiopia and also says Arven just wants the herba mystical just because, dunno how many times it has to be stated that things aren't always as they seem on a surface level in this game, especially with the time travel plotline having a million things questioning its legitimacy for you morons to get a clue.
>The game also says it's a time machine
Correct. >and also says Clavell is Cassiopia
False, the game says that Penny is Cassiopia. >and also says Arven just wants the herba mystical just because
To heal Mabosstiff.
>dunno how many times it has to be stated that things aren't always as they seem on a surface level in this game,
Here's the thing, that's what you're doing. You're taking your own theory on a surface level without thinking about how it actually works.
Time travel, atlantis everything else doesn't. It takes those ideas and looks beyond the surface to see how else it's going to be used in the story. Hell, time travel literally has Arven foreshadowing the time paradox and you morons take it at face value saying that's Arven saying it doesn't make sense instead of doing the smart thing and looking deep to see what it really means narratively.
>especially with the time travel plotline having a million things questioning its legitimacy for you morons to get a clue.
Can name one thing in the game that actually questions it that isn't just you reading something wrong?
>Can name one thing in the game that actually questions it that isn't just you reading something wrong?
How about the line where Arven outright explains why the Paradox mons shouldn’t exist?
7 months ago
Anonymous
NOOO that doesnt count because uh....it actually means time travel!
7 months ago
Anonymous
How moronic do you have to be to say Arven counts for imagination when the post you're replying to literally explains why that's wrong?
6 months ago
Anonymous
Why would it count towards time travel?
Writers include shit like this BECAUSE they want you to question whether it is or not
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Writers include shit like this BECAUSE they want you to question whether it is or not
No you dumb sack of shit. It's not there for to make you question it, otherwise they would have been more overt, instead they literally describe a paradox in the most blatant act of foreshadowing in video game writing.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Jesus, you people are moronic
No shit, it’s there to point out a paradox, you gay moron, but that doesn’t mean “ OH, ITS TIME TRAVEL, IT HAS TO BE”
6 months ago
Anonymous
Do you have any fricking idea how moronic you sound right now.
The paradox is a TIME paradox.
You're basically saying >oh they pointed out a time paradox that can only happen with time travel but that doesn't mean it's time travel!
Do you even understand what a paradox is? It's a contradiction anon, not your bullshit. >oh they're imaginary they aren't meant to exist!
Tomfrickery because if they're brought to life then they just exist, there's no contradiction.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I don’t think you know what a paradox means, honestly >well if it’s imagination that means it can’t be a paradox!
Absolutely moronic
6 months ago
Anonymous
I literally just explained what a paradox is to you and you're going to say that I don't know?
If there was ever proof that imaginationgays are just in it for the (you)s it's this because you clearly don't give a flying frick no matter how hard you get btfo'd.
But hey how about you explain what a paradox is to everyone here without saying its a contradiction because you clearly don't think it's that.
6 months ago
Anonymous
You can Google it yourself if you want to find out
Should’ve done that beforehand
So how’d the paradox Pokémon end up in heath’s time if it’s actually time travel?
Timegays answer this without resorting to moronic “muh bootstrap paradox” or “the time machine malfunctioned”
Arwens other parent is obviously just the other version professor but in casual clothes and this will prove the multiverse is real and paradoxes are ultra beasts and Terapagos created the dreamworld and Celebi is Dialgas sex partner.
>it's obvious that the prof was referring to the AI
Based on what the AI said the professor couldn't be talking about the AI in the final journal entry and unlike the orb and time machine there's no documentation of the path of its creation.
>My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own.
Of course the assistant's skills rival the prof, it's their copy
>A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
Of course it's a bit rigid, it's machine based.
>We even brought in a second Koraidon via the machine—though this one has proved aggressive.
The AI straight up said both him/herself and the prof worked together in the time machine (or whatever it is really, this goes beyond my point)
I don't know why I'm explaining this because it's super obvious but I guess there's always someone moronic enough.
----
Another thing I noticed rechecking quotes and journal entries is that the machine precedes the AI - as Koraidon arrived before Arven was born and the other parent walked out. The prof wanted another me after this. All of this also means both of Arven's parents worked on it, rather than the prof+the AI. How does this affect the great debate?
>Of course the assistant's skills rival the prof, it's their copy
Exactly, you wouldn't refer to you exact copy as an intellectual rival. >Of course it's a bit rigid, it's machine based.
Correct but she doesn't speak with rigidity. Outside of saying the ID numbers of you, Penny and Nemona.
The only one who can really be considered rigid is Geeta who always refers to Nemona as "champion Nemona".
>The AI straight up said both him/herself and the prof worked together in the time machine
Yeah, but the AI also said that the technology to make such a sophisticated AI doesn't exist in the modern day and that it was built by a human and unless you're trying to suggest that the professor was from the future she didn't build it on her own. >it's super obvious
It is super obvious, but you're ignoring key details which is which you're not seeing the bigger picture.
This can be interpreted as the AI >My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own. >A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
These imply that the assistant was someone else. >My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own. >A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled. >An AI is an artificial intelligence created by a human being >Humanity does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI at present. But the crystals that make up the Zero Lab have made such a thing possible here
You can't take them as separate things when the AI contradicts the idea that it was just the professor on their own.
Also the AI working with the professor doesn't mean that there wasn't someone else.
>Exactly, you wouldn't refer to you exact copy as an intellectual rival.
You would if you weren't sure the experiment was going to succeed. That statement is the prof saying "Oh it turned out as good as me" in a formal way
>Correct but she doesn't speak with rigidity
Being "a bit rigid" doesn't mean "speaking with rigidity" you dunce. It just means that the AI acted a bit autistic -because, of course, it's a machine-. Besides AI progresses over time, that's literally how IRL AI works. That's also how the AI came later to the conclusion the machine was stopped - if it didn't progress beyond the point it was created from the prof's template, it'd be still in line with the idea of spamming paradoxes over Paldea.
>Yeah, but the AI also said that the technology to make such a sophisticated AI doesn't exist in the modern day and that it was built by a human and unless you're trying to suggest that the professor was from the future she didn't build it on her own.
The exact quote is: >Humanity does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI at present. But the crystals that make up the Zero Lab have made such a thing possible here
The AI could be brought to existence thanks to the crystals. At no point here there's the implication of a "mystery asssistant". And of course, humanity doesn't possess the knowledge if the person who carried it died before publishing and the AI is minding other business.
>Also the AI working with the professor doesn't mean that there wasn't someone else.
The prof wished the AI precisely because there wasn't anyone else and didn't have time to prepare anyone else >I need another set of hands, but could they be trusted? And how long would it take them to even understand? If only there were two of me.
The prof has been alone ever since their partner left. At no point there's the implication of another assistant; that's just headcanon.
>How does this affect the great debate?
Oh and usually that's the reason people use to say that there's another authorised ID capable of activating the time machine.
It's not a factor in other theories
But that other person would just be Arven's other parent
>You would if you weren't sure the experiment was going to succeed. That statement is the prof saying "Oh it turned out as good as me" in a formal way
Anon, it has the exact memories as the professor whether or not it can express that properly for whatever physical reason is moot because it's still an exact copy.
>It just means that the AI acted a bit autistic
That's the thing, it doesn't.
It has brief over-analytical moments but not anything that can be considered rigid and autistic.
But Geeta on the other hand... >Very well, Champion Nemona. I trust you to handle this in my stead >An amazing display of talent, even against one as skilled as Champion Nemona >How good to see you again, Champion Nemona. >I am Geeta, chairwoman of the Pokémon League, the organization that runs these Gyms >I do indeed hold that claim. Alongside my role as chairwoman of the Pokémon League, that is >You see, I have a trait that some might say is inappropriate for the League Chairwoman
She's more robotic than the actual robot.
Look at what she says when you land an SE move >Yes, that was the correct decision in this situation. Please continue.
It's like that anon, who's girlfriend spoke to him like a wii fit instructor during sex.
>The AI could be brought to existence thanks to the crystals. At no point here there's the implication of a "mystery asssistant".
Anon, the crystals allowed for the time machine to be made and the implication of humanity not having the knowledge would mean that the professor wouldn't either being a human and all. >And of course, humanity doesn't possess the knowledge if the person who carried it died before publishing and the AI is minding other business.
Anon, if the AI is an exact replica then it would have the knowledge to make AIs and would be able to confirm if the professor knew. Instead it says humanity doesn't, not humanity bar the professor.
You have to read between the lines.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Geeta
There's not even traces of Geeta having any role in the DLC2. It's been datamined already. All of this bullshit will come to nothing.
Also read slowly this bit again: >AI progresses over time, that's literally how IRL AI works. That's also how the AI came later to the conclusion the machine was stopped - if it didn't progress beyond the point it was created from the prof's template, it'd be still in line with the idea of spamming paradoxes over Paldea.
>implication of humanity not having the knowledge
If I discovered the cure of cancer, and I was alone in a lab lost 700m underground, and I died before I could tell anyone. Would *humanity* have the cure of cancer?
6 months ago
Anonymous
Yes because youre human and were able to create the cure in your present. People would be able to reverse engineer it, if it was technology from the future that werent discovered yet nobody could replicate it.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Forgot to mention something
>It has brief over-analytical moments but not anything that can be considered rigid and autistic.
That's literally what the journal means, also what I meant colloquially, not literally, with "a bit autistic". Yes I know that's not the literal meaning of autistic, my mistake for forgetting his board is full of actual autists who don't process colloquial language.
But that's the problem with a dogshit language like English. I played in Spanish and from the journal it was pretty clear that the assistant was the AI.
>You're saying the the "assistant" can't be the AI because the AI doesn't act "robot enough".
No I'm saying the assistant can't be the AI because
1) the AI said it was built by humans
2) the AI said that humans the knoe9to build it in the present day
Everything else is just a minor detail you can pick out, those two points are the important part. >AI progresses over time. It acts and thinks more humanly than it did when it was newly built.
Anon, that doesn't matter at all. I get what you're saying but you're missing the forest for the trees.
>Not if the knowledge wasn't passed.
It doesn't matter if it was passed on or not, the fact is that it was possible in the present day.
Just because it wasn't recorded doesn't mean it's impossible. >The AI says "humanity doesn't have the knowledge at present", not that "it's forever unable to develop it". Research takes years, anon, crystals fast tracked it.
You're not getting it, the AI isn't saying its impossible, it's saying that humans can't build it yet.
>Anon, that doesn't matter at all. I get what you're saying but you're missing the forest for the trees.
this is pure gibberish without any meaning.
>No I'm saying the assistant can't be the AI because >1) the AI said it was built by humans >2) the AI said that humans the knoe9to build it in the present day
Point one doesn't make sense, of course the AI was built by humans, where it's said the assistant mentioned in the journal wasn't built by humans?. Point 2 is where we're going in circles.
>You're not getting it, the AI isn't saying its impossible, it's saying that humans can't build it yet.
Exactly... and it's because they don't have the knowledge, that's literally what the AI says, and the knowledge is lost with a ruined lab and a dead professor. So humanity doesn't have it. Not yet.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>But that's the problem with a dogshit language like English. I played in Spanish
That explains a lot about why you don't understand the story very well.
Out of curiosity though, what does it say in the Spanish version?
>this is pure gibberish without any meaning.
Missing the forest for the trees means you're missing the big picture for the small details in other words you think the way the AI talks is the important part rather than seeing how what they say impacts everything else.
>Point one doesn't make sense
I don't even know why I'm trying anymore because it's clear that there's some kind of language issue on your end
In any case, you take two pieces of information together, not separately and you get a question, if modern humans lack the knowledge to build it but the AI was built by a human, who built it?
Factor in the time machine and now you can say that a human from a different era built it.
That's inference anon, basic logic and reasoning to form a plausible answer.
>and the knowledge is lost with a ruined lab and a dead professor. So humanity doesn't have it. Not yet.
Anon, that's not how it works. If it's made and lost in the same era then a human had that knowledge in the same era.
It doesn't matter if one person or a million know about it, the important part is that it happened and is possible with modern knowledge and technology. P
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Out of curiosity though, what does it say in the Spanish version?
>Productivity has doubled thanks to the new researcher. S/He's somewhat [cuadriculado/a], but his/her knowledge and ability are on par with mine
I didn't translate the term "cuadriculado" (squared) because it doesn't directly translate, but it means someone too technical and over-analytic.
Worth noting this new researcher/assistant is talked about with a gender that always matches the professor's. Same stands for the AI, as there's no "it" or any neutral pronoun in Spanish.
>I played in Spanish and from the journal it was pretty clear that the assistant was the AI.
Aren't Spanish versions notorious for being shitty?
>Aren't Spanish versions notorious for being shitty?
Only name choices, the rest is fine. We can analyze the original JP if you all want.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Do the translator works directly with gamefreak? Or do they have to translate by themselved without references
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Or do they have to translate by themselved without references
What kind of moronic company works like this?
6 months ago
Anonymous
I think gamefreak are pretty moronic. But seriously Im not sure if they just have to translate the texts or do more work behind it to make it coherent in every language
6 months ago
Anonymous
Most translators, especially for non English translations, work separately often going through the publisher as a liason at best.
6 months ago
Anonymous
So
>Or do they have to translate by themselved without references
What kind of moronic company works like this?
Is just bullshiting
6 months ago
Anonymous
I mean, they get the original script, sure but they just do what they want as long as the general story stays the same.
It's how you get shit like this.
Pokemon thankfully isn't that bad with translations unless you get into Spanish. Especially if it's a Mexican reading traditional Spanish.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Thats what I meant, especially since the original was neutral and spanish is gendered language.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Same stands for the AI, as there's no "it" or any neutral pronoun in Spanish.
Then that's the issue here, it's not that it's referring to the AI, it's that there's no neutral pronouns but they have to put something.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>So humanity doesn't have it. Not yet.
NTA but if one guy makes it and dies before sharing it humanity still had it. Like that roman cement I want to say? No one in the modern day knows how to make it but it happened, humanity did know how to make it.
The only way the AI's statement would make sense is if it knew the knowledge came from an entirely different era that the professor wasn't a part of which means that someone came from the past or future, most likely the future.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>I played in Spanish and from the journal it was pretty clear that the assistant was the AI.
Aren't Spanish versions notorious for being shitty?
6 months ago
Anonymous
20 years ago
6 months ago
Anonymous
You are thinking about English ones
6 months ago
Anonymous
No, LATAM gays are always up in arms about it.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Because language and manners of speech between Spain and LATAM diverged much deeper than between UK and USA. Even some pronouns are different. So LATAMgays think on Spanish choices of words as cringeworthy - But that doesn't mean they're inherently bad.
t. LATAMgay but literate enough to understand that language can mutate over the years.
Anyway I digged into the text dumps because I couldn't find a Japanese walkthrough
The only difference is the prof's pronoun (私/watashi for Sada, 僕/boku for Turo).
If someone actually speaks Japanese feel free to translate.
Google translate: >Increase the number of researchers by one and double the efficiency.nThey have the same knowledge and skills as me.rnIt's a little too rational, but it's perfect.
I don't know in which head this text can imply there's a secret mystery assistant, it's obvious this journal refers to the AI prof.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Use deepl, it's better than Google translate.
>One more researcher, double the efficiency... with the same knowledge and skills as me... a little too rational, but not enough. >One more researcher, twice as efficient... with the same knowledge and skills as I have... a little too rational, but not enough.
It suggests that there's a full on personality different which would imply someone else who isn't as far gone as the professor.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Cant they read spanish from spain?
6 months ago
Anonymous
The easiest way to solve this matter would be to see what the AI says in Japanese. If it says it was built by humans and the knowledge doesn't exist in the present day then the professor didn't make it.
>At no point there's the implication of another assistant; that's just headcanon.
Except for the sixth journal entry >My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own. >A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
We know by the AI's words that the professor doesn't know how to make an AI and the AI is a full copy. >A computer draws on the original professor's knowledge and memories to calculate all of my thoughts and actions.
And we know that wishes aren't involved because the AI confirms it was built by a human. >An AI is an artificial intelligence created by a human being
There's just no way that the professor could have made by themselves based on the information we have.
>But that other person would just be Arven's other parent
Yeah? They were also a scientist.
>How does this affect the great debate?
Oh and usually that's the reason people use to say that there's another authorised ID capable of activating the time machine.
>mfw I only know about Khu because imaginationgays can't read.
It's so fricking tiresome to see them do the same thing everyday in threads that used to be chill discussion of lore. I can't wait until the dlc comes out and they can frick off forever.
Just a heads-up to the low-IQ idiots who keep responding to these threads: they are (and always were) troll threads. Threre's typically 1-2 guys who keep playing both sides to keep the arguments going, and they intentionally keep to circular logic to make you guys seethe. You'll never win one way or another - at least until the final DLC drops and spells it out beyond reasonable doubt - so there's no point in engaging and feeding the trolls - they're not actually here for the debate or discussion, they're here to make people fight with each other for their entertainment.
Was going to post a link to the 'how to troll VP' wiki, but it looks like the mods have filtered it - so I guess we know who at least one of the instigators is.
Atlantis theory comes and has decent discussion when imaginationgay isn't around.
The other day everyone had a decent conversation about how an ancient civilisation nuked themselves creating the great crater trying to use Terapagos' power and that whoever made the AI could have been from that time rather than the future.
There's several hints in the game that the future paradoxes are actually 10,000 years old.
I still think paradox mons are just Pokémon that were genetically modified by an ancient civilization that had hyper advanced tech.
The soijak wiki?
Are you sure it isn't being filtered because of soi?
But you're not wrong, whoever behind the imagination spam is also the guy who keeps on saying that the time machine can do anything when no one ever said that.
Dude, pretty much everyone here is a timegay because it's essential to discussion. It's literally all we fricking know and we have no reason to doubt it.
I mean, if it's time travel nothing will happen. They don't care enough.
They're like the Nintendogays of this board while imaginationgays are the sonyggers and these threads are Famitsu threads
If the paradoxes are product of imagination, why would the prof miscalculate their behavior? The prof wished the first Raidon to thrive, why would they "wish" a second, stronger and more threatening Raidon?Why the rest of paradoxes threaten the entirety of Paldea instead of just staying happy in the Paradise the prof envisioned? That's obviously something the prof didn't "imagine". The AI didn't say the prof wanted to threaten Paldea, it just said the prof didn't care.
I'm not hellbent on time travel, but as I said before, can't see "imagination" as a cover all answer to everything we can't explain yet.
The original professor didn't miscalculate the behavior of the paradox Pokemon, if anything, they were behaving exactly as expected. Because the Paradox Pokemon are based off of the entries the professor read about in the Scarlet and Violet book, that's how they came out. The book describes all Paradox mons as incredibly strong and aggressive, with one of them even killing an expedition member. When the paradox mons threaten the ecosystem of Paldea, the og professor simply says "that's life lmao" and lets it happen.
The actual anomaly here is the original Raidon the professor gets, since our bikedog is friendly, amicable and easily ridable, it's more in line with the Cyclizar of the modern day, meanwhile the second Raidon is how it "should" have shown up and is in line with what Heath would describe as an Iron Serpent/Winged King as well as every other Paradox Pokemon's behavior. It's possible that the first Raidon was based off of Heath's personal Cyclizar buddy but that's a whole other topic.
The professor was also an avid reader of occulture, and most Occulture entries of Paradox Pokemon also portray them as very dangerous. >> This creature scatters feathers as it flies around at high speeds seeking prey. It’s thought to be more savage than Salamence, and if you should encounter one, it’s imperative that you avoid actual contact. >> Eyewitness accounts describe it as resembling a giant Misdreavus at first glance, albeit a highly fierce and aggressive one >> It’s said that Sandy Shocks is an aggressive sort and that some people who’ve seen it have been attacked as well.
So how it works is >Professor wants the Pokemon from the book >the book's descriptions as well as Occulture paint these Pokemon as major threats >Terapagos grants the wish and the paradox Pokemon come out as massive buttholes
The professor wanting the Raidon to thrive is in line with their original goals as well, they probably wanted little Raidon babies lol.
I get your point, of course the prof wasn't expecting cute puppies to pet. But it still exceeded expectations and still went out of their control. And why the second Raidon would different to the first one, specially when the prof already had a conceived idea of its behavior?
>It's possible that the first Raidon was based off of Heath's personal Cyclizar buddy but that's a whole other topic.
So, that Raidon was imagined by Heath? Where was it all these years before it popped out from the machine?
>But it still exceeded expectations and still went out of their control
Again, the paradox pokemon were within the professor's expectations, the professor had no issue with them being aggressive and dangerous and threatening the ecosystem because the professor is deranged, it's this exact reasoning that made Arven's other parent leave them and why the AI goes against their design to shut the time machine down. >So, that Raidon was imagined by Heath?
No. all paradox Pokemon came from the professor's mind, I'm saying the og Raidon is friendly because it's possible it was based off of Heath's Cyclizar, who gets his own page because he was such a bro, apparently.
The second possible explanation is that the professor quickly went insane after the first Raidon's summon. note how the prof is nothing but a family man with a dream in the first few entries, but after the Raidon is summoned, suddenly they have a single minded goal, this reminds me, personally, of how Kieran is a meek boy initially before going full schizo after getting his wish granted, is it possible the price of having your wish granted makes you insane? I don't know yet and I'm waiting to see what the game says on this before I say with any finality, but it's something to consider if you dislike the prior explanation.
>It's possible that the first Raidon was based off of Heath's personal Cyclizar buddy but that's a whole other topic.
It's really not.
There's no way the professor could just assume what Heath's Cyclizar was like based on a single picture. Not to mention it wasn't as simple as >first Raidon good! >second Bad!
Because the whole reason the Raidon was taken away from Arven was that it suddenly became aggressive. >Yeah, but then one day Koraidon/Miraidon just went nuts against some wild Pokémon...
>The professor was also an avid reader of occulture, and most Occulture entries of Paradox Pokemon also portray them as very dangerous.
You shouldn't just focus on the Scarlet paradoxes because the Violet ones don't mention any kind of behavior.
I mean, iron hands was said to be a human, if the Turo imagined that based on Occulture then you wouldn't be able to catch it because it wouldn't have the ability to shrink like a pokemon. In fact none of them would because they're machines.
>The professor wanting the Raidon to thrive is in line with their original goals as well, they probably wanted little Raidon babies lol.
No because then it would just manifest more than two Raidon and there wouldn't be a second aggressive one to attack the first.
The whole imagination theory falls apart under scrutiny so easily that I'm surprised people still believe it.
>the Violet ones don't mention any kind of behavior
>>It’s also said to be cruel enough to take its brilliantly shining blade and cut down anyone confronting it without hesitation. >>It was reported to have razed an entire building with a high-energy blast...Iron Jugulis is theorized to be a sort of machine-Hydreigon hybrid, as it combines the former’s ruthlessness with the latter’s ferocity. >>It was said to resemble Volcarona and would descend from the skies, following people around and occasionally even attacking them. Some point to Iron Moth’s aggression as a sign that it is, in fact, a UFO...
Aggressive behavior is cited in both the past and future paradoxes.
>all paradox Pokemon came from the professor's mind
If that's the case then they wouldn't be manifesting after the professor's death. >who gets his own page because he was such a bro, apparently.
Anon, it has one page about it being a packmule.
It didn't say anything about it personality wise meaning if it was based on what the professor read it just wouldn't have a personality period. >The second possible explanation is that the professor quickly went insane after the first Raidon's summon
No, the idea of paradise started to rear it's head before the time machine was finished. >The crystals' power is tremendous! Their unstable output made our corporate backers fret, but... >If we can harness this energy, it will open up research possibilities we'd only dreamed of. >At last, paradise will be ours to create.
>If that's the case then they wouldn't be manifesting after the professor's death.
Why not? The time machine is set up to work automatically. It has it's selection of Pokemon to generate and keeps generating them like the professor wanted it to. >Anon, it has one page about it being a packmule.
Just like the Cyclizar of today. >No, the idea of paradise started to rear it's head before the time machine was finished.
Yes the professor always wanted their paradise, but they wanted the paradise FOR their spouse and kid, however after the Raidon appears, their entire demeanor changes.
>>I was expecting one new life to treasure, but what fortune to be blessed with this gift as well!
to >>I need more people. More time. That man walked out not long after the boy was born.
Again this is my personal theory, but I find it strange how the professor's original goal was to make a paradise where they could be happy together, but after obtaining the Raidon, they somehow became bad enough to make the other parent walk, then neglected Arven before biting the dust. How do you describe your son as a gift to be treasured intially, and then just start calling him "the boy"? That's just weird no matter how you look at it, especially since this "boy" was the source of their motivation before becoming insane and selfish.
We never actually meet the real professor and outside of the journal entries, there's no real log of their behavior prior to Arven's birth or the Raidon, but using Keiran as a base, a normal person becoming deranged after making a wish is a possibility. Again, this is just my own theory, I don't want some guy going "hurr imaginationgays all think this" when it's just me.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I also think it's very plausible that the professor was influenced by the same shit that is turning Kieran insane. The prof was also very power hungry, talking the player down about how it's impossible to defeat them and such.
Also, both the professor and Kieran had a certain adoration for a (set of) Pokémon that turned into an unhealthy obsession and then something else entirely.
There's definitely lots of parallels between the two, no doubt about it. The question is only if that's intentional or not.
6 months ago
Anonymous
After Dokutaro was “revealed” more people were theorising if it had an effect on the professor, heath, and whoever else
This is why arguing about it is pointless since these holes are gradually getting filled as we go along
Oh god I thought I was worried I was a schizo or something. You're right about the parallels of an adoration turning into a warped obsession that leads into villainy, man I wanna know how wish mechanics work so bad, bros.
6 months ago
Anonymous
This is definitely the most foreshadowing we’ve had in a Pokémon story.
This is why I’m dismissing people who say “well it’s a kids game” when it’s continually being proven that there’s more going on than it would initially appear.
6 months ago
Anonymous
After Dokutaro was “revealed” more people were theorising if it had an effect on the professor, heath, and whoever else
This is why arguing about it is pointless since these holes are gradually getting filled as we go along
6 months ago
Anonymous
There’s also the “Loyal” three which could’ve been regular nice Pokémon before their wishes were granted
6 months ago
Anonymous
>could’ve
Ain't no could about it. The dex entries outright say that the toxic chains altered their bodies.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>The time machine is set up to work automatically.
The source would be the professor's mind. You're basically saying a printer should work without something being sent to print.
>Just like the Cyclizar of today
Anon, a packmule isn't a personality. >however after the Raidon appears, their entire demeanor changes.
It's almost worth noting that after the other professor leaves they never mention paradise again. >Again, this is just my own theory, I don't want some guy going "hurr imaginationgays all think this" when it's just me.
I mean regardless of your theory most people believe momo corrupted the professor somehow.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>The source would be the professor's mind. You're basically saying a printer should work without something being sent to print.
No, the time machine is being told to "print" the same dozen or so Pokemon over and over, not manually ask to print each Pokemon individually every time. >> Even as we speak, the time machine continues to automatically draw ancient Pokémon to this time. >Anon, a packmule isn't a personality.
Anon...Cyclizar have been a part of Paldean culture for ages, they're described as "mild" Pokemon that let people ride on their backs. Our Raidon is the only Paradox Pokemon that isn't innately aggressive, much like a Cyclizar.
The first Raidon is based off Cyclizar's personality, inspired by the one Heath had.
The second Raidon is based off the book entry and/or is just the product of the professor's now twisted mind, since the second one came out long after the professor was alone with the AI, and pretty much immediately killed them and sent our Raidon to us.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>the time machine is being told to "print" the same dozen or so Pokemon over and over, not manually ask to print each Pokemon individually every time.
That's not how a printer works, you still need a source to infinitely produce copies.
Well, a printer couldn't even start printing infinite copies but that's a different matter.
In any case part of the problem with the imagination theory is that it doesn't have any rules meaning arguments against it don't really exist since it can be changed on the fly.
At the same time that leads to a lot of contradictions.
>Anon...Cyclizar have been a part of Paldean culture for ages, they're described as "mild" Pokemon that let people ride on their backs. Our Raidon is the only Paradox Pokemon that isn't innately aggressive, much like a Cyclizar.
Anon... You're saying its based specifically on Heath's we don't know anything about Heath's to say that it is.
On top of that the Raidon has multiple forms, five if we're being technical, and going by the dex entries only it's battle form was described. >and pretty much immediately killed them and sent our Raidon to us.
Well, we don't actually know if it did or not
6 months ago
Anonymous
Well, you're the one who made the printer allegory in the first place. >In any case part of the problem with the imagination theory is that it doesn't have any rules
What are you even talking about here? The time machine is said to work automatically, it keeps printing the same Pokemon the professor wished for--the Pokemon the professor read about in the Scarlet/Violet book, on it's own. The professor wanted this to happen and put several systems in place to keep it running indefinitely no matter what, it works like this by design. >In any case part of the problem with the imagination theory is that it doesn't have any rules
Dude, what? The game states the rules plain as day, but you're saying they don't actually count because a printer can't do it. Trying to discuss anything is impossible with you people, man.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>The time machine is said to work automatically, it keeps printing the same Pokemon the professor wished for--the Pokemon the professor read about in the Scarlet/Violet book
Yeah
But how does it function?
With time travel it's constantly throwing out pokeballs and bringing them back.
With imagination it just does, there's no rhyme or reason to it, you can just bullshit an excuse when something doesn't make sense like the professor being dead but the machine still working despite being the source or the machine still working when the AI's strongest desire is to turn it off.
See what I mean? >and put several systems in place to keep it running
And that's another thing, come to think of it. Why would it need an interface that can be shut down?
>The game states the rules plain as day
Yeah, for time travel. Not so much imagination.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Stop replying to him, he’s clearly he’ll bent on dragging this out.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, it's really just reading like he'll argue about anything as long as he can say imagination bad, shit sucks, the lore is fun this gen but it's impossible to talk about it.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Stop replying to him, he’s clearly he’ll bent on dragging this out.
Is this really what you're going to do every time someone asks you for more details on the imagination theory?
You're just being asked to explain how it works.
It shouldn't be that hard for you as someone who believes in it.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I guess the first Raidon being nice could also be due to his mindset. Depending on when he was possessed, that could’ve had an impact on the personality of the second raidon and general paradox mind which were all out for blood when we went to area zero.
>It's possible that the first Raidon was based off of Heath's personal Cyclizar buddy but that's a whole other topic.
It's really not.
There's no way the professor could just assume what Heath's Cyclizar was like based on a single picture. Not to mention it wasn't as simple as >first Raidon good! >second Bad!
Because the whole reason the Raidon was taken away from Arven was that it suddenly became aggressive. >Yeah, but then one day Koraidon/Miraidon just went nuts against some wild Pokémon...
>The professor was also an avid reader of occulture, and most Occulture entries of Paradox Pokemon also portray them as very dangerous.
You shouldn't just focus on the Scarlet paradoxes because the Violet ones don't mention any kind of behavior.
I mean, iron hands was said to be a human, if the Turo imagined that based on Occulture then you wouldn't be able to catch it because it wouldn't have the ability to shrink like a pokemon. In fact none of them would because they're machines.
>The professor wanting the Raidon to thrive is in line with their original goals as well, they probably wanted little Raidon babies lol.
No because then it would just manifest more than two Raidon and there wouldn't be a second aggressive one to attack the first.
The whole imagination theory falls apart under scrutiny so easily that I'm surprised people still believe it.
Yeah they would, for two reasons
One, the crystals enables time travel by powering the machine.
Two, it's very possible that it relies on the whole memory recall thing that we see in the anime and the seeing dead people thing in Kitakami, the AI could be using a crystal with the professor recorded on it.
>Geeta
There's not even traces of Geeta having any role in the DLC2. It's been datamined already. All of this bullshit will come to nothing.
Also read slowly this bit again: >AI progresses over time, that's literally how IRL AI works. That's also how the AI came later to the conclusion the machine was stopped - if it didn't progress beyond the point it was created from the prof's template, it'd be still in line with the idea of spamming paradoxes over Paldea.
>implication of humanity not having the knowledge
If I discovered the cure of cancer, and I was alone in a lab lost 700m underground, and I died before I could tell anyone. Would *humanity* have the cure of cancer?
>There's not even traces of Geeta having any role in the DLC2. It's been datamined already
Anon, the dlc has been scrubbed with very little relevant data remaining. Also Briar doesn't appear in some places but we know she's an extremely relevant character.
Going by a scrubbed datamine, won't get you anywhere.
>Also read slowly this bit again:
It's not relevant to the conversation.
That said this >it'd be still in line with the idea of spamming paradoxes over Paldea.
Is something you're glossing over, it's a copy of the professor at the end of things after the professor wanted to spam paradoxes. It would have known why the professor wanted that regardless of it changing over time but it doesn't. Which most likely ties into the idea of momotaro being some kind of mind control pokemon.
>Would *humanity* have the cure of cancer?
Yes, anon. A human creating the cure for cancer in the modern day does in fact mean that modern day humans would be capable of it.
You're saying the the "assistant" can't be the AI because the AI doesn't act "robot enough". AI progresses over time. It acts and thinks more humanly than it did when it was newly built. That's what I'm saying.
It's not that present time AI doesn't fit with the journal's description, anyway. For me it does perfectly. But if present time AI isn't "robot enough" for you, there goes the explanation on why.
>Yes, anon. A human creating the cure for cancer in the modern day does in fact mean that modern day humans would be capable of it.
Not if the knowledge wasn't passed. The AI says "humanity doesn't have the knowledge at present", not that "it's forever unable to develop it". Research takes years, anon, crystals fast tracked it.
>You're saying the the "assistant" can't be the AI because the AI doesn't act "robot enough".
No I'm saying the assistant can't be the AI because
1) the AI said it was built by humans
2) the AI said that humans the knoe9to build it in the present day
Everything else is just a minor detail you can pick out, those two points are the important part. >AI progresses over time. It acts and thinks more humanly than it did when it was newly built.
Anon, that doesn't matter at all. I get what you're saying but you're missing the forest for the trees.
>Not if the knowledge wasn't passed.
It doesn't matter if it was passed on or not, the fact is that it was possible in the present day.
Just because it wasn't recorded doesn't mean it's impossible. >The AI says "humanity doesn't have the knowledge at present", not that "it's forever unable to develop it". Research takes years, anon, crystals fast tracked it.
You're not getting it, the AI isn't saying its impossible, it's saying that humans can't build it yet.
The crystals allow for the time machine and AI to be made
They allow for ogerpon’s masks, the whole lake where you can see dead people, Pokémon to Tera, etc
My theory is that Tera crystals are data storages. That's how the professor could make the AI, they transferred their memories into it. And as they said, it was only possible thanks to the crystals.
My theory is that Tera crystals are data storages. That's how the professor could make the AI, they transferred their memories into it. And as they said, it was only possible thanks to the crystals.
Oh yeah and the whole visions of dead people stuff is also just replayed memories of those people that are stored in the crystals.
>Announce that this is a troll thread and OP is disingenuous >Suddenly, same two IPs double-down and try to keep the argument going
Gee, I wonder what happened here. You guys really need to get a fricking life already. That you kids need a fricking wiki to teach you how to troll at all is pathetic enough, but the fact that you've kept at it since even before the base game's release is really, really sad. Go outside and touch some grass - you need it.
I guess this brings into Dokutaro’s powers
Assuming you break free from its control, something awful could happen >Heath getting told he made shit up and all his credibility ruined >The professor dies >Kieren ??? (Unless we save him since we’re the player character that’s involved in the current events)
I thought about that, but I deliberately left them out since they did come back, and seem to be under the influence too. Maybe that’s what allows them to come back?
Maybe Kieran's negative emotions allowed Dokutaro to grow more powerful, which made it strong enough to revive them or some shit.
Honestly the whole reviving shit seems morely like an asspull, wonder if they'll be able to justify it.
Maybe, yeah
It definitely feeds off negative energy and Kieran seems perfect due to his young age making him way more emotional and his obsession with ogerpon for how long.
Heath was also stated to be in the data mine, yeah?
I’m guessing this will be through a flashback sequence displayed the disk Pokémon (forgot how to spell his name) since recordings were a thing with the Tera crystals people talked about, or something along those lines.
It’s all coming together
I’m curious as to how it got to Heath (assuming it did) and the overall timeline of events
Would it be Kitakami > Heath > Professor > current events?
I know people were talking about glimmora and it’s potential connection to Dokutaro, so maybe that’s something too. Have to see how it plays out.
Up in the air until the final dlc comes out, but the anime seems to be hinting that it's actually a third thing and both time travel and imagination is wrong
Does the anime make any mentions towards Dokutaro, or anything?
From what I can tell it’s gradually exposing teraturtles abilities, but within the game the two are intertwined.
It doesn't talk about dokutaru, just shows that memories are a part of turtle's powers. That being said, the anime has always done it's own thing, so while I find it unlikely, this could have nothing to do with what it's powers in the game are.
Yeah, it's really just reading like he'll argue about anything as long as he can say imagination bad, shit sucks, the lore is fun this gen but it's impossible to talk about it.
It's sad, like you said, this gen has some of the best lore in a pokemon game yet, but so many anons ruin the fun theory crafting by turning it into arguments whenever a theory they don't like is mentioned
>whenever a theory they don't like is mentioned
You can blame Khu for that one. Just mentioning an alternate theory for imagination sends one homosexual into a hissyfit.
I'll never understand why some anons go into an autistic fit when they see people talking about time travel or imagination. I guess some anons have nothing better to do with their time
Everyone just kind of hates imagination because the people who believe it just tend to be dipshits who don't pay attention or even play the game and just make shit up as they go. Earlier in this thread there was one anon who didn't know that the AI was made after the time machine was built and was adamant that he was right for example.
The people who hate time travel just hate discussion that doesn't include imagination to the point where they've made a boogeyman called "timeschizo" that they cry about every single time someone references something from the game regardless of if they actually believe in time travel or not.
I wish I were joking about that but you can see it in this thread.
>post says that anyone arguing about the theories is autistic >respond by arguing about the theories
Trolling or not, I've always found shit like this funny
Time travel is the Edelgard of Pokemon
so it was imagination then
So it's wrong and moronic?
why are you still obsessed with her?
You wish, furgay.
Time Travel gays were imagining things.
Time Travel is already canon in Pokemon
See: Celebi
Dream World is already canon in Pokemon.
See: Gen 5
>were going to unova for DLC
What if it is dream world shit?
>gen 5
>canon
KEK!
the pachirisu I got in the dream world with a hidden ability and transferred up to gen 9 is canon, yes
No resolution until DLC2 comes out.
It has never been a question of if time travel is a real concept. The question is if Turo/Sada's machine is a time machine.
I didn’t play that shit but it’s related to paradox mons right? The whole paradox mon thing seems like a nod to fakemons so I’ll go ahead and say the machine is powered by imagination.
Tldr is the paradox Pokémon don't make sense as ancestral or future Pokémon, and it seems that no matter what the answer is, it will involve the revelation that paradox Pokémon are not naturally occurring Pokémon. We know that there's some sort of Pokémon generator coming in DLC2, so it really just seems to come down to your flavor of theory.
>if time travel
Something (probably terapogos) generated the paradox Pokémon, someone sent them back into the past which were then discovered by various people and cataloged by heath. Eventually the lack of physical evidence causes heath to lose credibility and the paradox Pokémon become in universe cryptids. Turo/Sada believes they are real and eventually builds a functional time machine that grabs the paradox Pokémon from the past/future and pulls them into the present.
>if imaginations/wish/demiurge
Heath is a liar and the professor is a loon who found a means of generating Pokémon and misinterpreted it as a way of time travel.
There's also a handful of anons who completely deny any of this and claim that it is pure time travel and that paradox Pokémon are entirely natural, but I legitimately don't know how serious they are since they seem more interested in farming (you)s more than anything else.
your time travel explanation makes it sound like the paradox pokemon from the past/future pulled to the present are naturally occurring and actually existed in the distant past/future
Congratulations on making the same mistake that the professor makes.
>someone generated the Pokémon and sent them into a different time period.
>the professor used the time machine to grab those Pokémon that aren't supposed to exist to bring them into the present day
>because this works and the professor doesn't understand the circumstances, they assume it was a natural Pokémon.
last I checked a lot of people who believe it’s time travel think paradoxmons aren’t fake and try to go for the bootstrap time paradox angle
>they assume
>Through analysis of its genetic makeup, as well as its behavioral patterns...I came to realize that what I had discovered was in fact an ancient form of Cyclizar, the Pokémon commonly ridden in this region.
I don't think you know what an assumption is.
nta but it was a good assumption. it’s just that they don’t have a scientific way to test for something created supernaturally in the image of cyclizar
>it’s just that they don’t have a scientific way to test for something created supernaturally in the image of cyclizar
Yes they do, behavioral patterns and genetics. If it were supernatural in nature those results wouldn't come back with a similarity to modern Cyclizar.
>it were supernatural in nature those results wouldn't come back with a similarity to modern Cyclizar.
If god made a clone of you it would come back with your same behavioral patterns and generics. But god creating a clone of you is supernatural.
>If god made a clone of you it would come back with your same behavioral patterns and generics
Terapagos isn't God anon. In the imagination theory it's a creation from the mind of the person who desires it, you can't imagine down to the genetic level.
you’re the one saying an imagined pokemon can’t match genetically because you said so. I say an imagined pokemon can match geneticallyz
if I dream about my dog with superpowers and the dream becomes reality, my superpowered dog would match my dog. behaviors, genetics, etc
>you’re the one saying an imagined pokemon can’t match genetically because you said so. I say an imagined pokemon can match geneticallyz
Okay, how did the professor imagine genetics they didn't know about?
Everyone in Paldea knows about Cyclizar.
That doesn't answer the question and knowing about Cyclizar doesn't mean you can envision it's very DNA let alone imagine the minute differences that would create a Raidon.
Also the even if the Entralink was a part of the actual continuity it isn't a link to the imagination, it's to other worlds in general like the world of the opposite version. All of the pokemon you encounter actually exist.
NTA but it's literally magic. Every Pokemon has its own magic powers. You're thinking way too hard about this.
NTA but SV has gone into more detail than any other game. It's clearly not magic if they're going out of their way to explain it.
I mean, they could have just said
>Terapagos can open up portals in time and space and we use that to grab pokemon!
And left it at that but instead they say that Terapagos' crystals give off a frick ton of unstable energy meaning it doesn't have anything to do with time travel itself like Dialga and Celebi it just powers a time machine like how those electrodes in GSC powered the Rocket Base in Mahogany but you wouldn't dare argue that they're powered by imaginary electricity imagined by the rockets and brought to life by the electrodes.
what makes you think a dream animal being made into reality needs to have the dreamer know everything about the dream animal down to its cells?
besides we already got the dream world where secret hidden abilities no one knew about came into reality anyways
Don't DNA change after a very long time through mating and environment? Didn't the game said that they DNA is very identical? Shouldn't that leave some issues?
Correct - the DNA should be slightly different, otherwise it would mean Koraidon/Miraidon are just clones of a modern Cyclizar, not an ancestor/descendant. That the DNA is an exact match should have been a red flag to the professor, but one can assume that by this point they were already off their rocker and not really thinking rationally.
>Don't DNA change after a very long time through mating and environment?
Minute changes yes.
>Didn't the game said that they DNA is very identical?
No. It doesn't say it's identical.
>someone generated the Pokémon and sent them into a different time period.
Where are you getting this from?
>There's also a handful of anons who completely deny any of this and claim that it is pure time travel and that paradox Pokémon are entirely natural, but I legitimately don't know how serious they are since they seem more interested in farming (you)s more than anything else.
That's not how I see it. Usually the time travel anons cite the game while the imagination anons never actually bring up anything that supports their stance but rather just try to "debunk" time travel.
In other words the former want to discuss while the latter want to shitpost.
>imagination anons never actually bring up anything that supports their stance but rather just try to "debunk" time travel.
imagination posts evidence in-game all the time while time travel anons are the ones that consistently deny everything and deny any form of hints and only take what the game says at face value. A game that also had clavell lie and say he was cassiopeia btw.
magination theorists believe that Heath lied, which created the paradoxes he saw but he never saw them because he faked the picture so Terapagos is also fake but Terapagos somehow brought everything to life but the paradoxes only have a 200 year life span before the energy that made them wears off and turns them to nothingness even though people went down in that time span and found nothing and that's because it's actually the professor's time machine that made the paradoxes, not Terapagos, because it's an imagination permanence machine and that created the paradoxes and not Terapagos it's only powered by Terapagos who's ability is manifestation of thoughts which is why it created the AI when the professor wished for it but the paradoxes they held near to their heart weren't manifested because she wished for a time machine that was actually wished up instead of being built.
If this sounds stupid and overly complex that's because it is.
>which created the paradoxes he saw but he never saw them because he faked the picture
people faked the bigfoot photo too, yes. and we also have the game that keeps saying heath is a fraud and briar wants to clear his name.
>so Terapagos is also fake
no heath saw terapagos down there and drew a picture of it in disk form
>but the paradoxes only have a 200 year life span before the energy that made them wears off and turns them to nothingness
there were never any paradoxes 200 years ago because heath made them up
>because it's actually the professor's time machine that made the paradoxes, not Terapagos
terapagos is inside the time machine making the paradoxes. there’s a giant hexagon sphere in there
>but the paradoxes they held near to their heart weren't manifested because she wished for a time machine
Sada believed past paradoxes are all ancient dinosaurs so naturally she thinks she needed a time machine to get them. That’s an obvious line of thinking, no?
>people faked the bigfoot photo too, yes. and we also have the game that keeps saying heath is a fraud and briar wants to clear his name.
This isn't evidence that he lied. It's just saying that no one believed him because Area Zero was so unexplored.
You as the player though go an verify everything in the book, YOU know that it isn't a lie and that's all that matters.
>no heath saw terapagos down there and drew a picture of it in disk form
So what makes Terapagos real and what makes the paradoxes fake?
You have no evidence to say that the paradoxes are fake in your theory but also have no evidence to say Terapagos is real under it.
>terapagos is inside the time machine making the paradoxes. there’s a giant hexagon sphere in there
Whether or not that's Terapagos doesn't support either theory because it's essential to both being a power source for time travel.
>Sada believed past paradoxes are all ancient dinosaurs
We don't know what Sada thought and even then if she thought she needed a time machine if its dreams to life then it's just a time machine.
You need evidence anon.
>imagination posts evidence in-game all the time
To this day we haven't had any kind of evidence from imagination theorists just a bunch of baseless ideas that come from nowhere. For example WHY do you think Heath lied? What in the game made you come to that conclusion?
the game consistently calls heath a fraud. almost everyone questions the dubious nature of the scarlet/violet book, even arven acknowledging it’s dubious. briar wants to clear heath’s name.
And Heath has plenty of reasons to lie
>"The author, Heath, pictured with the director of Uva Academy. The academy's generous funding made the Area Zero Expedition possible, and the data gathered has been shared with the academy in hopes that it will aid in the institution's research work and foster future generations of scholars and scientists."
imagine getting all that funding and backing, going down and exploring area zero only to return with barely anything to show for it. so Heath has the incentive to lie and say he found fantastical things down there
>the game consistently calls heath a fraud
Except it doesn't. Arven's story is about the Herba Mystica that they successfully planted outside of Area Zero and you go into Area Zero and confirm the layout, the pokemon found there, the paradoxes, the markings, the metal tablet, the crystals, everything.
The game confirms everything as real but you've arbitrarily chose the paradoxes as being the one thing that's fake for no reason.
That doesn't make sense.
>so Heath has the incentive to lie and say he found fantastical things down there
Anon, the most fantastical thing in the book is Terapagos, variants of pokemon aren't anything new after all, and looking at this post
You think Terapagos real, why? What made you think like that?
You haven't presented anything from the game that supports tour idea and that's the problem with imagination.
> imagination anons never actually bring up anything that supports their stance but rather just try to "debunk" time travel.
To be fair that's not completely true, they always cling to life to that one comment from Arven haha
>Logic clearly implies is imagination
Look, I'm not saying there's nothing about imagination involved, but at the end of the day it comes out as a cheap cover all explanation for everything we can't explain directly (because the story hasn't been completed and we're missing info)
> I can't explain this, must be imagination!
Like this it's super easy to find "logical" explanations to everything.
>Usually the time travel anons cite the game while the imagination anons never actually bring up anything that supports their stance but rather just try to "debunk" time travel.
I mean, debunking Time travel can point to Imagination. Take Scream Tail's dex entry, for example - it is stated to be from over one billion years in the past. The problem there is that it would predate the first multicellular lifeforms to come into existence on the planet if that were true - Earth at the time period stated didn't have the oxygen-rich atmosphere that gave birth to more complex lifeforms yet. This means that Scream Tail cannot possibly be from where it's stated to be from, which means it didn't time travel as claimed - therefore, it had to have been conjured up or manifested through some other means. This, in turn, points to Imagination - it exists because the Professor believed it did (despite the archaeological record making it clear it couldn't), not because it was actually pulled through time.
>Take Scream Tail's dex entry, for example - it is stated to be from over one billion years in the past
Anon, that's from Occulture. The thing the game says is bullshit.
And no, debunking time travel doesn't prove imagination, only evidence for imagination can point to imagination. That's how it works.
how come the professor has occulture among their research notes
Because they liked the book and anything related to it.
>There's also a handful of anons who completely deny any of this and claim that it is pure time travel and that paradox Pokémon are entirely natural, but I legitimately don't know how serious they are since they seem more interested in farming (you)s more than anything else.
If you're still here
These guys
Prove the opposite.
You’re actually fricking moronic
Continue being mindbroken like you have been, but stop replying to me
>stop replying
>constantly farms (you)s every day
What changed anon? Don't like the attention now?
>There's also a handful of anons who completely deny any of this and claim that it is pure time travel and that paradox Pokémon are entirely natural
That would be me.
>but I legitimately don't know how serious they are
Pokemon games are simple games made with simple stories for small children. Game Freak isn't crafting some deep hidden narrative you need to figure out. If the game says it's a time machine, it's a time machine; simple as that.
>No resolution until DLC2 comes out.
The debate won't end there anyways, as that dlc is still official.
There is so such thing like time travel or imagination.
it’s terapagos hexagon sphere mode inside the time machine the entire time. you can view it for yourself by going back inside the room and looking up
The game came out and it was time travel.
Some people can't let go though.
Arven explicitly points out one of the paradoxes of paradox Pokémon
unless Terapagos has full reality warping powers, it can’t be time travel
katy perry said "i kissed a ghost and i imagined it" and then an alien feom the furure kidnapped her but accoeding to her shes chuzophrensic
Time travel is the default, so unless it says in no uncertain words that it's imagination, it'll win. But it could just be both. The professor got the time machine, and pulled the past/future mons into the present.
Honestly, you can't really reconcile both ideas. Imagination in general is so fluid in terms of rules that it just makes a ton of plot holes.
I think the closest to it would be if the paradoxes were homunculi from the ancient civilisations that were pulled through time.
You still have the fake mon angle but it doesn't present errors and it also plays into the atlantis theory and Terapagos' alchemy theme
>imagination is just things brought about from the dream world and terapagos is the god of it
easy
View imagination more as wish granting if anything. Like if Jirachi actually granted wishes in the games it would function the exact same as imagination.
Thing is, no one can decide on how it works. Is it passive, is it active, is it exact, does it corrupt the wish.
Without rules you can't really make a theory or every answer just becomes
>IT DOES BECAUSE IT Does ALRIGHT!?
hasnt that literally been how people make the time machine work
>how did the heath see a mirai/koraidon if the professor could only ever get two
>if the pokemon were really from the past/future, how did they wind up in heath's time
>where did said pokemon go after heath's time if they were there
the answer (historically) from people in the time travel camp is "its a time machine so it can just make up for anything we cant explain"
i dont really care which "side" you take on this but time travel isn't actually completely airtight as a theory, likewise there are still things things from the wish granting angle that have yet to be explained, like the whole other pokemon we don't know anything about, that being the weird pink peach thing. we still need to wait for dlc 2 like
said
>hasnt that literally been how people make the time machine work
No? This entire time people have just been using the rules and mechanics of the time machine and time travel to make plausible situations. For example the machine can send and retrieve pokemon making it plausible that they were sent to the past and then pulled back hence why no one else could find them. That makes sense based on what we know.
With imagination it's entirely random which is why so many different versions of the imagination theory from Heath lying about the paradoxes to the paradoxes existing but having a 200 year half life without the machine.
>the answer (historically) from people in the time travel camp is "its a time machine so it can just make up for anything we cant explain"
No anon. That has never been the answer anyone has ever given for time travel, you're thinking of the imagination theory.
Because the game goes into detail regarding the time machine and how it functions we can pick out details like
>pokemon can freely travel through time in a pokeball while humans can't
>it used Terapagos' crystals as a power source
>the book wasn't the key to shutting it down but the ID in the book
>the capture process was incomplete when AI Sada caught the ball making time travel near instantaneous
You get the picture.
That said time travel isn't the only thing that has evidence behind it, the philosopher's stone theory has the similarity to the alchemical rebis and the Atlantis theory has files from the game.
Imagination has absolutely nothing.
>but time travel isn't actually completely airtight as a theory
Except it is. A lot of the "contradictions" that are brought up are usually based on misunderstandings or just outright false information like thinking the time machine was destroyed rather than shut down.
Anyway, the point is that imagination was just a lazy theory cobbled together because Khu used some weird hints and YouTubers exacerbating it.
>This entire time people have just been using the rules and mechanics of the time machine and time travel to make plausible situations.
Then you are quite literally going
>>IT DOES BECAUSE IT Does ALRIGHT!?
Until we have explicit confirmation of exactly how x, y and z thing went down, you are doing the exact same thing you're mocking imaginationgays for by making up rules and mechanics for the time machine that are never actually stated. Shut the frick up,
>Then you are quite literally going
>>>IT DOES BECAUSE IT Does ALRIGHT!?
You're not very smart are you.
Again, it's all plausible based on what we know.
No one is saying something
>it's a time machine, that means they can do anything!
They're saying
>it's a time machine and this specific problem can be solved using its main function of sending things forwards and backwards through time.
It's not a very hard concept to grasp.
>Until we have explicit confirmation of exactly how x, y and z thing went down
Anon, they've already foreshadowed the use of the time machine again to explain the paradox in Arven's lines in the postgame. We basically have an outline of what's going to happen already and confirmation of a paradox not to mention the pokemon being catagorized "paradox" pokemon.
Which is another thing, there seems to be some confusion on what a paradox is with some people saying that because they were imagined that makes them a paradox, even though the idea of a paradox is rooted in contradiction and if they're just imagined into existence they just exist, there's nothing saying they can't.
Also this is a perfect example of that misunderstanding and false information I was talking about.
>or pure logic like Suicune Raikou and Entei, they were born something at best 20 years ago in game time
Not only were Entei, Raikou and Suicune NAMED during the events of the burned tower, not born, it happened 150 years before the story of Gen 2 and not 20.
Not to mention the expedition happened 200 years ago even giving it a gracious, I don't know, 27 years to match the real world passage of time you're still going to be out 23 years which would mean that if they didn't exist until the burned tower the sketch artist couldn't make up the combination beasts. Unless of course you're trying to suggest that the beasts as well as the swords were imaginary to begin with but that's a whole different can of worms.
>>it's a time machine and this specific problem can be solved using its main function of sending things forwards and backwards through time.
from what I understood, it can only bring things to the present (from the past/future, version dependent). wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future?
>wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future?
LITERALLY the game ends with it sending the AI to the past/future
Yes but before that it couldn't.
>LITERALLY the game ends with it sending the AI to the past/future
Dude, if you paid attention at all to the dialogue and events leading up to that scene, it's pretty obvious the AI was lying and didn't get sent anywhere - it went into the machine and destroyed itself, and it KNEW that was what was going to happen, which is why it took the book and embedded key card with it. No more AI, no more activation key, no more machine.
It's also pretty clear that Arven knew what it was doing as the scene unfolded as well. Read between the lines and follow the mood - sometimes things aren't literally what you're told they are.
>DUDE LMAO JUST BECAUSE THE GAME SAID IT DOESNT MEAN ITS TRUE
meds NOW
No, anon - because an unreliable narrator who has consistently lied to you throughout the entire game while posing as a dead person said it, it's not to be accepted at face value. The AI has every reason to lie (again) at that precise moment - to try to make things as easy on Arven as possible now that he's being left with absolutely no family.
The AI can't even leave it's cuck cave because it can't live without tera crystals, the other anon is right in that it just died, since the alternative is that it pops out in the "past/future" and instantly dies anyways
The only really known things about the time machine are
>it can send humans to another point in time, but it would be a one way trip
>it can send Pokeballs to another point in time and retrieve them
That's all that's really stated that the time machine does, or at least what the professor makes it do. Resident timegay here says that because the time machine can hypothetically do whatever it wants, any plot holes regarding time travel don't actually matter because lmao theres a time machine dumbass who cares about the writing.
The fact is there's no evidence to say the professor does anything besides capture Pokemon to bring to the present, so there's no actual explanation as to how Heath has seen a Raidon, nor does the professor have any motivation to do anything regarding the Heath expedition, but timegays ignore this because wowie zowie its a time machine!!!!!!!!!!
>wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future?
This is everything we can glean about the time machine from what's told and shown to us
>it's a two way time machine that can send things to the past or future
>it's a one way trip for humans but pokeballs can be retrieved
>time travel happens faster than capturing a pokemon
To say it doesn't make sense requires adding restrictions that don't exist or you could be terminally moronic like this guy
>adding restrictions
Who's doing that? The time machine can do pretty much anything, however it's a tool and it's the person who uses the tool is what affects the story. The professor only ever uses the time machine to get Pokemon to the present, the AI only ever uses the time machine to go off far in time. Neither the professor nor the AI have any motivation to put Pokemon back in the time machine and send them elsewhere in time, nor is it stated they do this, especially in the case of the Mirai/Koraidon who we know explicitly have always been with the professor/AI and no one else.
This means it's impossible for Heath to have seen a Raidon using all the info we have in the story, and the only way time travel theory can justify it is by making up events that have never happened and have no evidence of happening. The professor only cares about the preset and the Pokemon they read about in the book, they don't care about the expedition itself nor Heath.
>but someone else could use the time machine!
Except the AI took the only key that makes the time machine function with them in the portal.
We've done this song and dance for months, prove someone used the time machine the way you need it to for time travel to be air tight and you win. But you can't, that's why people call you a schizo.
>Who's doing that?
Observe
>The professor only ever uses the time machine to get Pokemon
>Neither the professor nor the AI have any motivation to put Pokemon back in the time machine
>Except the AI took the only key that makes the time machine function
This is you adding arbitrary restrictions.
The professor was never the only one who used the machine and we know this because they had an entire team the first time a Raidon was pulled through and the second time a Raidon was pulled through there was a mysterious assistant so clearly there are other people who know how it functions.
The professor doesn't need to be the one to send anything back to the past and I'm pretty sure hundreds of people now have said that Briar has a reason to go back 200 years not to mention she's going to be the reason you go back to Area Zero. We even know that there's already some kind of relation because the Area Zero books namedrop Terapagos which was only ever in the original manuscript which Briar has.
And finally, the book isn't the only key, anyone with an authorised ID could make it function and we know of at least three different people related to the Area Zero shit with Sada.
Clavell
The mystery assistant
The other professor
You're pulling things from thin air that the game doesn't say just becuase you don't like the idea of time travel even though the game beats it into your head that it's time travel.
>We've done this song and dance for months
I don't know what you're even talking about but if you genuinely believe that everyone using common sense is the same person then you're a genuine fricking moron. And on top of that this is just proving that you're all alone. That you're the sole imaginationgay.
>This is you adding arbitrary restrictions.
Do you understand what "arbitrary" means?
on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
There is nothing 'arbitrary' about the professor's personality, their motivation, nor how the time machine is explained to be used during the main story. The professor's turbo autism is the exact reason the time machine even exists, their character is central to the plot of this story, therefore trying to make up reasons the professor would do something OOC is spitting in the face of everything the story has set up.
>The professor was never the only one who used the machine and we know this because they had an entire team the first time a Raidon was pulled through
That team disbanded after the Tera Orb was completed, Clavell's reaction to finding out the Raidon was from Area Zero reveals that while he may have known about the time machine itself, he wasn't actually around to see anything summoned.
>>"Could this Pokémon have its origins within Area Zero...?"
>>"Sada/Turo... Don't tell me you actually did it..."
The only other person in the story aware of the time machine and what it can do is Arven's mystery parent who fricks off after disagreeing with the professor like the AI does.
>And finally, the book isn't the only key
The book is very explicitly stated to be the only key. If it was so easy to just make a brand new key out of thin air, why would the AI go through the trouble of asking for it directly?
>>"But there is something we need first. Something that can be found within that lab. What we need...is the Scarlet Book."
>>"Ah. So you took it from the lab, did you, Arven? This expedites things. Bring the Scarlet Book to the deepest depths of Area Zero.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Professor_Sada/Quotes
No other character has any reason to mess with the time machine. Finally, acting like only a single person disagrees with you is pathetic.
>Do you understand what "arbitrary" means?
Do you? Because everything you've said doesn't have a reason behind it beyond
>NOOO IT MAKES SENSE AND I DON'T WANT IT TO!
>There is nothing 'arbitrary' about the professor's personality
I'm talking about YOU, not the professor but YOU. You're the one making shit up that hasn't ever been mentioned by the game.
>That team disbanded after the Tera Orb was completed,
The team disbanded completely after the time machine was completed you dumbass.
>I need more people. More time. That man walked out not long after the boy was born.
>I need another set of hands, but could they be trusted? And how long would it take them to even understand? If only there were two of me.
Arven was born AFTER the first Raidon meaning other people were still there.
>The only other person in the story aware of the time machine and what it can do is Arven's mystery parent who fricks off after disagreeing with the professor like the AI does.
Mystery parent? It's Sada or Turo depending on the version.
And you're still forgetting the mystery assistant.
>My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own.
A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
>We even brought in a second Koraidon via the machine—though this one has proved aggressive.
And we know that isn't the AI because not onky would you not describe an AI assistant like that but the technical knowhow to make one doesn't exist in the present day. Which was confirmed BY the AI itself. If the professor were acting on their own then the AI wouldn't have been created.
>The book is very explicitly stated to be the only key
There's literally nothing in the game saying that. You didn't even find a quote that comes close to that because all you can glean from that quote is that the book was the only one the AI knew of on account of being an AI copy that has all of the professor's knowledge.
>>NOOO IT MAKES SENSE AND I DON'T WANT IT TO!
Except it doesn't make any sense, you've provided no proof to your claims, you're going "just trust me bro this totally happened" and getting mad when someone asks for proof.
>The team disbanded completely after the time machine was completed you dumbass.
Going off every piece of dialog in the game it seems like the only people around for the first Raidon summoning were the OG professor and Arven's other parent. Again, Clavell doesn't know anything abut the Raidon despite being on the Tera Orb project with the prof. The fact that the prof only needs "another set of hands" makes me think they really only needed one other person to replace the missing parent.
>It's Sada or Turo depending on the version.
I mean probably, but they're unnamed so who actually knows, this doesn't matter too much unless they appear in the story though.
>And we know that isn't the AI
Wait, what the frick? You actually think another person was in area zero and it wasn't the AI? Even though the AI says outright they worked on the time machine with the professor? Forget making up facts about the time machine, you people are making up entirely new characters for some reason. Mental.
>You didn't even find a quote that comes close to that because all you can glean from that quote is that the book was the only one the AI knew of
Why would the AI, who at this point of the story is convincingly cosplaying the real professor, not know how to get a replacement ID? They're literally in contact with Clavell when you see them, if we could just make a new ID on the spot the AI only needs to go
>Clavell my old friend can you make a brand new ID for me I seem to have lost it somewhere
And not needed to put children in danger to get a very specific book, it's almost like the prof's childhood book is the only key that could ever exist. Frick, this is so stupid I'm gonna make it a 2 parter hang on
Okay about the key thing, the professor not only made MULTIPLE failsafes put in place to stop the time machine from being shut down, they also invented fricking Poke-Ball locks specifically so they could forcibly deny access to the Pokemon of anyone that might have tried to stop them.
And yet you really and truly believe that anyone could just generate a fake and make the time machine work again?
No, that makes no fricking sense, the professor is extremely deranged and obsessed with their paradise project, and they've set it up so only "they" can be the one who shuts the time machine down, it takes the player having one of the professor's own Pokeballs to save the day, because the professor did absolutely everything they could to stop anyone except them from messing with the time machine.
Saying that the book can't be the only key is not only false, it's blatantly ignoring everything the game has set up about the professor and the time machine.
The book is gone, the time machine is DONE.
Anways I have said my piece, I didn't realize how far gone timegays had become in the months it'd been since I've visited a lore thread, all I can say is I WILL be sitting pretty when DLC2 drops and you fricks (all two of you) are blown out of existence because this is ridiculous.
>Except it doesn't make any sense
Yeah, to you, because you keep on adding arbitrary restrictions like "only the professor can use it", "there's only one key" that the game doesn't support.
Hell we don't even know if the thing is as hard to turn on as it is to turn off because all we know is that the PPP existed to prevent it from being shut down along with the pokeball lock system.
>Going off every piece of dialog in the game it seems like the only people around for the first Raidon summoning were the OG professor and Arven's other parent
No. How you could even come to that conclusion when the other professor is only mentioned in log 7 and an entire team was mentioned in log 2?
This is what I mean, you're filling in gaps with your own headcanon just so you can make it make less sense.
>You actually think another person was in area zero and it wasn't the AI?
Did you even pay attention to the game?
>An AI is an artificial intelligence created BY A HUMAN BEING. A computer draws on the original professor's knowledge and memories to calculate all of my thoughts and actions. The results of those calculations are expressed by this mechanical body, built to resemble the professor in every way. Humanity DOES NOT, IN FACT, POSSESS THE KNOWLEDGE TO DEVELOP SUCH A SOPHISTICATED AI AT PRESENT.
Now, keep in mind that the AI, for all intents and purposes, is an exact duplicate of the professor.
It would know if the professor knew how to make an AI beforehand, instead, it confirms that no human knows how. Get it?
If the professor was acting solo then the AI couldn't exist meaning that the mystery assistant can't be the AI.
Unless you're trying to say the AI was proofed up out of thing fricking air.
>Even though the AI says outright they worked on the time machine with the professor?
Yes, and you know what that means based on what we know? That means that there was a period where there was the professor, the AI and the mystery assistant all working together.
>Now, keep in mind that the AI, for all intents and purposes, is an exact duplicate of the professor.
>It would know if the professor knew how to make an AI beforehand, instead, it confirms that no human knows how. Get it?
>If the professor was acting solo then the AI couldn't exist meaning that the mystery assistant can't be the AI.
It's funny how many people just gloss over that.
I mean, the AI said it right to our faces and people just ignore the importance of it.
>Unless you're trying to say the AI was proofed up out of thing fricking air.
this is exactly what happened, the professor wanted a double and terapagos granted that wish, it explains why
1. the AI is more advanced than anything regular humans could make
2. the ai is a perfect copy of the professor right down to their clothes when this provides no real advantage (there's no reason why they should be walking around and talking like a person instead of being a hologram or just trapped in a computer like a regular AI)
i'd also say the ai is a second professor because the professor at this point has been abandoned by everyone, including their spouse, so they felt they could only trust their own ability, on top of no one else understanding their goals and motivation, as said in the log thing.
a random third dude who pops up after the second professor leaves, but goes away before the ai appears, even though the ai says it developed the time machine with the professor, makes no sense at all
>the AI is more advanced than anything regular humans could make
That's not even right. The AI said it was too advanced for humans in the present day, not that regular humans couldn't build it. Not to mention it confirms that it was built by a human and not wished up.
>a random third dude who pops up after the second professor leaves, but goes away before the ai appears, even though the ai says it developed the time machine with the professor, makes no sense at all
That's because we don't have the whole story yet. Despite that it makes more sense than saying it was wished up or that the professor, a modern day human who couldn't have had the knowledge to build it, built it.
You can't take things at a surface level anon, you need to look at it as a whole.
i'd still say a 3rd professor is completely unsupported by the game while the AI being wished for fits right in with everything else people say about imagination. the professor even kept logs of stuff like the pokeball lock system, but another professor, nor their developmental logs of the AI exist. they just want a copy and get exactly that
>That’s not even right
And the full line.
does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI at present
As a whole anon. Taking it piece by piece only means you'll get something wrong.
Then he goes on to say that the crystals have made that possible
Yes, because the crystals enable time travel.
No, the time machine does.
How did the AI get here without a time machine?
Anon, the crystals power the time machine ergo it enables time travel.
>How did the AI get here without a time machine?
There is a time machine.
The time machine was finished after the AI was created though.
What you’re saying makes no sense
>The time machine was finished after the AI was created though
Can you please play the game.
I did.
Provide proof which says otherwise instead of “please play the game”
Anon, I'm not going to do that because everyone who's played the game knows you're wrong.
Instead I'm going ask you to show me where it says the time machine was built after the AI and let you figure out the rest.
If you don't then that's the end of your argument.
>No, YOU need to provide proof, not me!
Not how it works, sperg
I accept your concession
So you admit you're wrong.
Good, now you can stop posting.
Nah, I’m right.
The professor was able to build the AI because of the crystals, and with the help of the AI it built the time machine.
Feel free to prove me wrong (you evidently can’t)
Imaginationgays everyone.
>I-imaginationgay
moron
Just shut the frick up if you refuse to refute this properly
You’re a fricktard too.
>ERM YOURE WRONG. PROVIDE PROOF AS TO WHY? N-NO, I REFUSE!
Here's the thing anon, no one is going to take you serious because you're arguing something so astronomically fricking stupid, like saying 2+2 is 3, while being 100% serious about it.
If you post your proof you'll know why you're wrong but you won't because you're imaginationgay and research is the bane of your existence.
If you don’t have proof that I’m wrong, then stop seething and stop replying.
You’ve had enough time to, yet you refuse because you’re only here to bait and shitpost.
>If you don’t have proof that I’m wrong
You're the only person who thinks you're right. There's no reason to prove it to you because you're just being astronomically moronic.
>yet you refuse because you’re only here to bait and shitpost.
Like I said, no one is going to do it. They're just going to call you moronic and ignore you. Even now I'm just giving you attention as pity.
>still no proof
Continue to throw your tantrum
>and with the help of the AI it built the time machine.
Anon, answer me this, when was the time machine built?
After the AI was completed, is this so hard to understand?
That doesn't answer the question but okay, let me word it like this.
Do you know the order of events according to the area zero logs?
>when was the time machine built?
according to timetravel anons, it doesn't matter when anything happened because time travel
He got proven wrong but just ignored it
Anon, just stop samegayging. You're not fooling anyone
Dumbass. All you can do is lie
I mean, you are because the professor says they need help to finish their work on the time machine.
But they don't build it. They mention that they wanted someone like themselves to help them and the AI kind of just showed up.
Wish power
Why did he need to wish for an ai when he could directly wish for the time machine
because he wanted an assistant and he’s a narcissist
But he didnt need it to have a time machine
>Provide proof which says otherwise instead of “please play the game”
ok
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Area_Zero_journals
the ai wasn't around until after the professor had the first raidon in addition to several other unspecified paradox mons according to their own journals, meaning the time machine couldn't have been nonfunctional until after the ai was invented
You should have just let him stew in his anger.
if he was illiterate enough to miss this the first time through he's illiterate enough to miss it again
This would prove me wrong if it had dates
Nice try though!
why would their journals not be in chronological order
wait a second your "dates lmao" excuse doesn't even work because lab #4's second journal completely invalidates it
"My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own.
A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
We even brought in a second Koraidon via the machine—though this one has proved aggressive. "
>professor uses the time machine to bring a raidon to the present
>professor gets a new assistant in the form of an ai they developed using area zero's tera crystals
>the pair use the machine to bring a second raidon to the present
That's not the only one either
>I was expecting one new life to treasure, but what fortune to be blessed with this gift as well!
>I need more people. More time. That man walked out not long after the boy was born
Clearly journal 5 happens before journal 7.
Spotted journal 2 and 3 while I went to look for those too.
> I secured corporate funding for my research and made a laboratory in the lighthouse near Cabo Poco.
Someday, though, I'll return to the crater and resume my study of these crystals.
>At last I can resume work on the Tera Project!
>I'll move my research to the Zero Lab this month.
Anyone who says they don't go in order is a fricking moron because you don't need a date.
Are there dates mentionned in any pokemon games? I dont remember
Mew birth.
Ill accept it but if they didnt bring it up in later games its like animals existing in the pokemon world
Nope, only in gen 1 which has been retconned later.
Heh.
Imaginationgays think that Arven was unbirthed
>The time machine was finished after the AI was created though.
Who the frick told you that?
t. Heath
Not if it comes from the future. The time machine can still be achieved a century later and the ia can still come to the future
>Why would the AI, who at this point of the story is convincingly cosplaying the real professor, not know how to get a replacement ID?
It's almost as if there's something preventing it from acting in a way that would result in the time machine being turned off.
As if there's some kind of, I don't know... Protection Protocol.
>And not needed to put children in danger
Don't be a fricking idiot, it contacted you specifically because it saw you were travelling with the Raidon.
>You appear in any number of clips from security camera footage together with Koraidon."
And anyone else would have failed because of the pokeball lock system. The Raidon was the only pokemon not under control of the PPP that could have fought against it.
>And yet you really and truly believe that anyone could just generate a fake
No one said anything about generating a fake, the frick are you even talking about?
>No, that makes no fricking sense,
Know why? Because you're the one making that up!
No one said anything about making a fake, this is exactly what I was talking about before, you make up these moronic scenarios that you know don't make sense and posit them as your opposition's argument when no one but you said it.
>Saying that the book can't be the only key is not only false
How is it false when we know for a fact that it's not the book itself that's special?
>To stop the time machine, you will need to use the professor's ID, which has been embedded within the Scarlet Book.
To top it off it was the safest bet for the AI to get the book because they knew it would be in the lighthouse
>But there is something we need first. Something that can be found within that lab. What we need...is the Scarlet Book
>Don't be a fricking idiot, it contacted you specifically because it saw you were travelling with the Raidon.
>>You appear in any number of clips from security camera footage together with Koraidon."
>And anyone else would have failed because of the pokeball lock system
That's actually a good catch. I never thought much about the pokeball lock system until the very end but the AI would have known about it.
>I didn't realize how far gone timegays had become in the months it'd been since I've visited a lore thread
>in the months it'd been since I've visited a lore thread
You literally admitted to being a regular in lore threads here you dumb motherfricker.
>We've done this song and dance for months
Talk about being far gone, you can't even remember what you said when it's right in front of you, no wonder a children's game is filtering you this hard. Your attention span is shot.
Anyway, whether you like it or not the game cemented in stone that it's a time machine. They're not going to retcon literally everything about the story and make up some plot hole ridden excuse in the last five minutes just because some autist is sperging out on the Internet.
>No other character has any reason to mess with the time machine.
Literally Briar, her whole motivation is getting people to believe Heath.
>Finally, acting like only a single person disagrees with you is pathetic.
You said it yourself
>We've done this song and dance for months
"We" refers to me and you. I don't frequent lore threads very often so I can't be the other party to butt heads with but that clearly means that you're the only dumbass on your side.
>Oh also even if the time machine wasn't permanently shut down Brair still couldn't affect anything meaningfully since both existing Raidons are in the player's possession
Yeah it's not like there they aren't setting up a situation where yours is stolen from you or anything like that.
Next time you post, learn how English works and play the game instead of being a fricking moron.
>Yeah it's not like there they aren't setting up a situation where yours is stolen from you or anything like that.
yeah dude the lady with no battling ability is gonna run up to the champion of paldea and steal the single strongest pokemon in the game right from under their nose, and then she's gonna use her super hacker skills to turn the time machine back on and send your doglizard (whos been so polite and hasnt escaped on his own) back to heath because that totally proves heath right, somehow
Now define reason and system in that context of logic
Oh also even if the time machine wasn't permanently shut down Brair still couldn't affect anything meaningfully since both existing Raidons are in the player's possession. I guess if she really wanted to she could send the completed book to Heath but that doesn't actually complete her goal of proving him right, nor does it change the fact that the paradox pokemon themselves are generated from the professor's imagination.
At the end of the day, the real issue here is that just about all imagination theorists are moronic beyond comprehension.
I mean, this is a children's game, it's not that hard to understand but the whole point of this theory was to just be a fluid answer to everything without thinking hard about it.
Like I said before the three other theories can work and they don't actually contradict each other but imagination just presents a problem on its own.
Now, stop posting.
If you're not going to add anything of worth to this discussion other than complaining that no one can see what you want them to see then just leave. These threads were better before you people came here because we just talked about game lore, not headcanon.
>These threads were better before you people came here because we just talked about game lore, not headcanon.
Yeah, I hate when people are discussing Terapagos and Dokutaru and how their wish powers work and then timegays shit the whole thread up.
See, it's this kind of thing that makes everyone hate you.
If imagination is real, it's probably more of a thing where Terapagos can sense strong desires within its range and grant them. Dokutaro would probably be similar, but have drawbacks like the toxic chain.
AtlantisCHADS won so hard the debate just died.
Game clearly states is time travel
Logic clearly implies is imagination
Most likely the last DLC will reveal that ot is not Timt Travel but it was Imagination all along making it sound like is a great shock and surprise but actually the community realized it as soon as the game came out
If the game says it's time travel then logic wouldn't lead you to believe it's imagination.
Game also says Ogerpon is evil.
The game literally has you discover the truth and say that the loyal three were evil much like how you discover the book was real.
You don't really understand how this works do you?
Damn that a lot of seething from just saying the game tells you Ogerpon is evil.
How is stating a fact seething?
The game has a mystery or something that's unverified and you find the truth.
Correct and we will find the truth in the second DLC when we go back to Area Zero to find the treasure, right anon?
The truth about Terapagos and the history of the crater.
The truth about the paradoxes has already been covered.
NTA but you're seeing it wrong
Paradoxes, Ogerpon and Blueberry are three different stories that will all eventually tie into the greater mystery of Terapagos with that being the only thing that currently connects them.
So in other words, the mystery is still going on.
Of Terapagos.
Not the paradoxes, we already know that Terapagos and it's crystals were used to power the time machine and pull pokemon from the past and future.
That story is over.
What's next is the story of Blueberry and finally the return to Area Zero that brings the underlying connection to Terapagos to a close.
Yes the mystery is still going on. Glad we agree.
Uhm...
Honestly I'm not very versed in using Ganker or any board/social of any kind, so I haven't really read this kind of discussion over and over how you may have, but it is quite evident if you ask me that it is not time travel.
there are a lot of instances where it doesn't add up, either by pokedex entries, NPC dialogues or pure logic like Suicune Raikou and Entei, they were born something at best 20 years ago in game time, there is no way they exhisted in ancient prehistory, but you know Pokémon is a multiverse and they don't actually give a frick about consistency (hisuian voltorb lmao) so that could pretty easily be a retcon and let's roll along with that.
This is like the stuff with SM and USUM, where Lusamine's design is OBVIOUSLY based on Pheromosa, Lillie too is clearly based on nihilego too, and while it makes sense in SM where Lusamine loves Ultra beasts, so it makes sense she wants to look like one, and make her daughter look like one herself, it is not for USUM, because in that games she hates them, but her design and lillie's still are the same. So what does this say? that their design is just a casuality non causality.
All that I'm sayign is that the games states that it's time travel while there are a lot of contraddiction, maybe it's not "imagination" or whatever, but there is a good chance that the final DLC MAY give another explanation stating that is not Time Travel, since it evidently is not, but if that's not the case then the game says TT so it's TT.
anonchama you kicked the bee's nest, a lot of people have reached the same conclusion you have, that there's more to the story that they're letting on, but there's a camp of people here who have spent ages fiercely denying that there's anything more to the story than time travel. i'd suggest you bail on these threads before you lose your mind debating in circles with these people
Bro. None of this is right.
>there are a lot of instances where it doesn't add up, either by pokedex entries,
There are no pokedex entries that say that. If you're the anon who says "but iron hands in Scarlet references the Violet Occulture!" no shit, pokemon isn't new to referencing the opposite version. They've been doing shit like that since RS.
>NPC dialogues or pure logic like Suicune Raikou and Entei, they were born something at best 20 years ago in game time,
That's 150 years and no one in GSC or HGSS say that's when they were born.
The entire game doesn't say that though. Most of it does, because you're meant to think it's time travel.
The game casts doubt to that, because that's not what it actually is.
I'm not going to say it's imagination, but I will say that from a narrative point of view, it's not time travel. Otherwise, there'd be no need to bring attention to how it doesn't actually make sense.
>Otherwise, there'd be no need to bring attention to how it doesn't actually make sense.
Unless it's Game Freak going "uhhhh we know this doesn't make sense but we acknowledge that so it's okay xD"
>The game casts doubt to that
This is the mistake you're making, at no point does the game cast doubt on the fact that it's a time machine. Arven says its weird that the paradoxes were seen 200 years ago but that doesn't contradict the function of a time machine that can send things through time.
If he had said something like
>wait how are they in the book?
>my mom/dad's machine can only bring things to the present not to the past
Then you could say that it was casting doubt on it.
Arven's lines at the end are there to tell the player that the story isn't over yet and the time machine will be used again to explain it, not that everything and the theme of the game was wrong.
To use another game as an example Metroid Prime lore frequently mentions "the worm". That's foreshadowing to Metroid Prime the creature.
By your logic they would be two different creatures.
Why would they send Pokémon to the past?
We'll find out in the dlc.
That's the point of theorycrafting anon, we don't retcon what's there with arbitrary nonsense, we use what's there to form a possible narrative.
Yeah, we’ll find out how it’s imagination in the DLC since khu said so
NTA but Briar wants to prove Heath was right so why wouldn't she bring paradoxes back to the past while looking for Terapagos?
>Arven's lines at the end are there to tell the player that [HEADCANON]
timeanons will screech all day about everyone else making shit up then turn around and make shit up. i don't even give a toot one way or the other, but you have to see the hypocrisy right?
Using the game is hardly making things up anon, as much as you want to screech and whine about it.
I take you know now too because you aren't even trying to argue a stance anymore, nor are you even trying to samegay. You're just angry that you don't have a solid argument against any of this.
Khu never said it was imagination.
The closest thing to that would be the "use your imagination" hint referring to how the body parts of the swords he posted were part of an imagined pokemon.
Which do not exist mind you.
Khu’s statements basically point out that it’s not time travel
Great tusk/iron treads not looking the same as the ones we see among other things
>Khu’s statements basically point out that it’s not time travel
Khu hasn't made any statements. That's why the only thing people can reference from him is the King of Thorn hint, referring to the professor, and the swords.
>Great tusk/iron treads not looking the same as the ones we see among other things
The sketch is a rough sketch from memory and the pictures are exact. You people try that stance all them time and only prove that you can't discern features properly so don't bother posting the usual lines on the picture image.
Even if what you said was true it would only disprove time travel, it wouldn't act as evidence in game that imagination is a possibility.
>the pictures are exact.
They aren’t
Khu stated also stated that this was intentional
>you aren't even trying to argue a stance anymore, nor are you even trying to samegay.
was literally my first post in this thread, every post calling you out wasn't written by your one boogeyman
>Using the game is hardly making things up anon, as much as you want to screech and whine about it.
that's what everyone on either side does, post quotes and text straight from the game and then INTERPRET them, then screech about how their interpretation is cold fact while the other side's is schizo babble. interpretation is just that: filling in the blanks with your own headcanon through critical thinking, it's what we all learned to do for elementary school book reports. if one person thought the curtains being blue represented the character's sadness, and one person thought it represented the sky, they didn't throw a shitfit about how everyone else was moronic. or maybe (you) did, i don't know. but well adjusted people would discuss their theories and hear out their peers.
>was literally my first post in this thread
That's usually the excuse but the IP count never went up.
>that's what everyone on either side does, post quotes and text straight from the game and then INTERPRET them,
Yes, everyone, except for imaginationgays.
There's nothing in game saying that dreams are brought to life and anything close to that is contradicted by the fact that there's an made up pokemon in the book that doesn't actually exist, the datamine doesn't have enough spaces for both.
There's nothing saying that Heath lied, you spend Arven's story and. the entire last story exploring area zero confirming the book as fact.
You have nothing and I don't see why you need to continue this facade because it clearly irritates you.
Not him, but it did go up since I last looked at it
Anon, there have been several new posts since his "first".
>Yes, everyone, except for imaginationgays.
Christ, you are really fishing for (you)’s
Yes let’s ignore the mountains of discussion they had in previous threads, the images consisting of ingame information
That anon was right about you being a screeching autist
>Yes let’s ignore the mountains of discussion they had in previous threads, the images consisting of ingame information
From everyone except imaginationgays.
I don't see how you can hold this idea that you people even make the attempt when in this very thread you're foaming at the mouth trying to convince people you're right instead of posting anything from the game.
I mean, how many times have you been asked to post something concrete from the game and you've refused? Even now all you have is a "no u".
You're only proving the point. That imaginationgays just post to disrupt threads rather than having an honest interest in the lore.
It's sad to be honest because you don't even enjoy this.
You can check the archive for these images and posts, but I know you won’t since you’ve been baiting the whole time like a rabbid autist
Anon, unlike the people you've been talking to I frequent lore threads. I know the ins and outs of the ever changing imagination theory from the power half life and imagination permanence machine and Heath lied to the 3d printer time machine.
I don't need to go into the archive because I already know that you don't use the game to support your stance. Then there's this thread itself as real time evidence that you don't because even now you'd rather attack me than prove your argument.
Again, you're only proving that imaginationgays just disrupt threads.
>I won’t, I don’t need to!
You could’ve just not replied, but instead you decided to prove that you’re baiting
>That's usually the excuse but the IP count never went up.
apologies,
was actually my first post and the quoted was my second. i've been lurking and reading mostly and forgot i asked a question earlier
>There's nothing in game saying ...
you really have selective reading, huh? I JUST said there's nothing in game saying anyone's theory is true, everyone is just interpreting the text. you just have a particular stick up your ass about how your theory is right and all the text is interpreted in one particular way, while everyone else's theories are 100% made up bullshit. you conveniently neglected to reply to the rest of my post stating how actual people discuss interpreting media.
>You have nothing and I don't see why you need to continue this facade because it clearly irritates you.
i don't know what facade you're talking about, i don't have a problem with time travel or imagination, i have a problem with (You)
>apologies,
from what I understood, it can only bring things to the present (from the past/future, version dependent). wasn't there dialogue about how they couldn't send anything through the machine into the past/future? # was actually my first post and the quoted was my second. i've been lurking and reading mostly and forgot i asked a question earlier
Anon, just tell the truth. You're the only imaginationgay here.
> I JUST said there's nothing in game saying anyone's theory is true
I don't particularly care what you belive especially not this pathetic excuse for an argument because every other theory has evidence in game to support it except for imagination.
Time travel is obvious.
Atlantis has the name for area zero in the data and the alchemy theme of terastalization and Terapagos.
What does imagination have?
>you just have a particular stick up your ass about how your theory is right
You say that but what theory do you even think I support? I haven't given you anything to go on, you might assume that it's time travel but the fact of the matter is that the only reason I'm talking about it is because you constantly get information about the game wrong in order to "debunk" it much like your original post where you believed the time machine could only bring things to the present despite the fact that it would have to be a two way time machine to send and retrieve pokeballs but I digress.
Unlike you I'm here to discuss possible scenarios, not get mad because people poked holes in something I believe in.
>i have a problem with (You)
If you have a problem with basic discussion the the issue here lies with you and your inability to accept different ideas and contradiction in your own.
I suggest you leave these threads for people with thicker skin.
>Yes, everyone, except for imaginationgays.
>From everyone except imaginationgays.
>imaginationgays just disrupt threads.
why are you even here then? your theory is so concrete, watertight, and impossible to refute, and the only legitimate discussion is had by people who support that theory, so why not make a discord group where you can jerk each other off in your echo chamber
>and the only legitimate discussion is had by people who support that theory,
My dude, the first post literally says
>everyone, except for imaginationgays.
Do you know what that means?
That means that YOU are the problem here and that YOU want it to be an echo chamber for imagination while he's open to other theories as long as it works with what's in game.
It's like you people genuinely don't understand why everyone fricking hates you.
He's here to shitpost anon. Honestly it's not worth actually trying to speak sense into him.
>he's open to other theories as long as it works with what's in game.
Every time someone tries to discuss something other than timetravel he just yells about how the imagination boogeyman is changing the theory as some kind of gotcha instead of different anons coming to different conclusions. If he were really interested in other theories, he wouldn't be seething this hard at other theories.
>Every time someone tries to discuss something other than timetravel he just yells about how the imagination boogeyman is changing the theory
Talk about dishonest whenever that happens in these threads it's always, without fail, a revision to imagination.
Atlantis and tome travel have been true to form from the very start.
Look at the amount of shit you can find in the archive about Heath alone
>the paradox mon were imagined by Heath!
>Heath lied and made them up!
>Heath saw regular pokemon and Terapagos corrupted them!
>Heath imagined them but they weren't permanent
And yes, the first and last ones are literally two different ones.
It's absolutely fricking absurd how none of you can decide on anything because the imagination theory doesn't follow any kind of rules or restrictions. It's like Duelist Kingdom Yugioh "if you can bullshit it you'll win" rules.
Actually, do you even know what the other theories even are or are you too up your own ass to accept anything other than imagination?
>It's absolutely fricking absurd how none of you can decide on anything because the imagination theory doesn't follow any kind of rules or restrictions.
okay you're just being willfully obtuse at this point. The Imagination Theory (TM) isn't as you say it is, all those points on Heath you referenced for example IS the theory crafting, critical thinking, new ideas i'm talking about.
>Who's angry about other theories other than you?
>Even in imagination vs time travel threads no one is angry about imagination
>Imaginationgays on the other hand are hostile to just about everything and I don't understand why
are we in the same thread right now? you're farming for (Yous) by sperging out at any whiff of text that suggests it might be under this big imagination umbrella you've concocted
>you, you just lose it which is odd since you clearly aren't putting a lot of thought into the imagination theory.
i already told you, i'm not for any theory, i'm fascinated by your mental gymnastics. thanks for an entertaining afternoon :^)
>he wouldn't be seething this hard at other theories.
Who's angry about other theories other than you?
Even in imagination vs time travel threads no one is angry about imagination as much as its just discussing the various contradictions and plotholes that arise because of it.
Atlantis doesn't get much discussion and usually amounts to someone saying
>atlantis bros we won
Or someone trying to reconcile it with time travel aka actual discussion.
Imaginationgays on the other hand are hostile to just about everything and I don't understand why. It's not like other theories haven't been debunked before and their followers don't fly into a rage but you, you just lose it which is odd since you clearly aren't putting a lot of thought into the imagination theory.
When did gf ever did a switcheroo like that?
Here's the thing anon, if it's imagination then the whole game can't happen because the book shouldn't exist.
Holy shit a paradox in my paradox Pokémon game!
It's neither.
Lost civilizationbros how are we holding up
Allied with the time travellers
It's all Khu's fault this debacle happened.
Pretty much yeah.
the game says its time travel so its time travel. Everything else is literally schizophrenia or trolling
no it doesn't
>Game also says Ogerpon is evil.
>entire DLC is about how the legend is wrong and Ogerpon was the victim
Can you people play the game?
yeah so the second DLC will be about how it’s not a time machine
The game also says it's a time machine and also says Clavell is Cassiopia and also says Arven just wants the herba mystical just because, dunno how many times it has to be stated that things aren't always as they seem on a surface level in this game, especially with the time travel plotline having a million things questioning its legitimacy for you morons to get a clue.
>The game also says it's a time machine
Correct.
>and also says Clavell is Cassiopia
False, the game says that Penny is Cassiopia.
>and also says Arven just wants the herba mystical just because
To heal Mabosstiff.
>dunno how many times it has to be stated that things aren't always as they seem on a surface level in this game,
Here's the thing, that's what you're doing. You're taking your own theory on a surface level without thinking about how it actually works.
Time travel, atlantis everything else doesn't. It takes those ideas and looks beyond the surface to see how else it's going to be used in the story. Hell, time travel literally has Arven foreshadowing the time paradox and you morons take it at face value saying that's Arven saying it doesn't make sense instead of doing the smart thing and looking deep to see what it really means narratively.
>especially with the time travel plotline having a million things questioning its legitimacy for you morons to get a clue.
Can name one thing in the game that actually questions it that isn't just you reading something wrong?
>Can name one thing in the game that actually questions it that isn't just you reading something wrong?
How about the line where Arven outright explains why the Paradox mons shouldn’t exist?
NOOO that doesnt count because uh....it actually means time travel!
How moronic do you have to be to say Arven counts for imagination when the post you're replying to literally explains why that's wrong?
Why would it count towards time travel?
Writers include shit like this BECAUSE they want you to question whether it is or not
>Writers include shit like this BECAUSE they want you to question whether it is or not
No you dumb sack of shit. It's not there for to make you question it, otherwise they would have been more overt, instead they literally describe a paradox in the most blatant act of foreshadowing in video game writing.
Jesus, you people are moronic
No shit, it’s there to point out a paradox, you gay moron, but that doesn’t mean “ OH, ITS TIME TRAVEL, IT HAS TO BE”
Do you have any fricking idea how moronic you sound right now.
The paradox is a TIME paradox.
You're basically saying
>oh they pointed out a time paradox that can only happen with time travel but that doesn't mean it's time travel!
Do you even understand what a paradox is? It's a contradiction anon, not your bullshit.
>oh they're imaginary they aren't meant to exist!
Tomfrickery because if they're brought to life then they just exist, there's no contradiction.
I don’t think you know what a paradox means, honestly
>well if it’s imagination that means it can’t be a paradox!
Absolutely moronic
I literally just explained what a paradox is to you and you're going to say that I don't know?
If there was ever proof that imaginationgays are just in it for the (you)s it's this because you clearly don't give a flying frick no matter how hard you get btfo'd.
But hey how about you explain what a paradox is to everyone here without saying its a contradiction because you clearly don't think it's that.
You can Google it yourself if you want to find out
Should’ve done that beforehand
Yes because its not a contradiction
So how’d the paradox Pokémon end up in heath’s time if it’s actually time travel?
Timegays answer this without resorting to moronic “muh bootstrap paradox” or “the time machine malfunctioned”
>explain how it's time travel without mentioning time travel
SPECULATING moronS THE GAME SAYS ITS TIME TRAVEL THE AI LITERALLY TIME TRAVELED
BW said Kyurem was some monster from space, is that true?
Actually we don't have proof it isn't
Time travel happened
Dragon types BTFO
Arwens other parent is obviously just the other version professor but in casual clothes and this will prove the multiverse is real and paradoxes are ultra beasts and Terapagos created the dreamworld and Celebi is Dialgas sex partner.
Genuinely more moronic than timetrannies.
This later part of the conversation is so gone I lost track on who is the timeschizo and who is the imaginationschizo
But the most schizo part of the conversation is the idea that there was another mystery assistant, it's obvious that the prof was referring to the AI
>it's obvious that the prof was referring to the AI
Based on what the AI said the professor couldn't be talking about the AI in the final journal entry and unlike the orb and time machine there's no documentation of the path of its creation.
>My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own.
Of course the assistant's skills rival the prof, it's their copy
>A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
Of course it's a bit rigid, it's machine based.
>We even brought in a second Koraidon via the machine—though this one has proved aggressive.
The AI straight up said both him/herself and the prof worked together in the time machine (or whatever it is really, this goes beyond my point)
I don't know why I'm explaining this because it's super obvious but I guess there's always someone moronic enough.
----
Another thing I noticed rechecking quotes and journal entries is that the machine precedes the AI - as Koraidon arrived before Arven was born and the other parent walked out. The prof wanted another me after this. All of this also means both of Arven's parents worked on it, rather than the prof+the AI. How does this affect the great debate?
>Of course the assistant's skills rival the prof, it's their copy
Exactly, you wouldn't refer to you exact copy as an intellectual rival.
>Of course it's a bit rigid, it's machine based.
Correct but she doesn't speak with rigidity. Outside of saying the ID numbers of you, Penny and Nemona.
The only one who can really be considered rigid is Geeta who always refers to Nemona as "champion Nemona".
>The AI straight up said both him/herself and the prof worked together in the time machine
Yeah, but the AI also said that the technology to make such a sophisticated AI doesn't exist in the modern day and that it was built by a human and unless you're trying to suggest that the professor was from the future she didn't build it on her own.
>it's super obvious
It is super obvious, but you're ignoring key details which is which you're not seeing the bigger picture.
This can be interpreted as the AI
>My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own.
>A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
These imply that the assistant was someone else.
>My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own.
>A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
>An AI is an artificial intelligence created by a human being
>Humanity does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI at present. But the crystals that make up the Zero Lab have made such a thing possible here
You can't take them as separate things when the AI contradicts the idea that it was just the professor on their own.
Also the AI working with the professor doesn't mean that there wasn't someone else.
Geeta is alien from the lost civilization that used terapagos as energy source but it exploded and created area zero
>Exactly, you wouldn't refer to you exact copy as an intellectual rival.
You would if you weren't sure the experiment was going to succeed. That statement is the prof saying "Oh it turned out as good as me" in a formal way
>Correct but she doesn't speak with rigidity
Being "a bit rigid" doesn't mean "speaking with rigidity" you dunce. It just means that the AI acted a bit autistic -because, of course, it's a machine-. Besides AI progresses over time, that's literally how IRL AI works. That's also how the AI came later to the conclusion the machine was stopped - if it didn't progress beyond the point it was created from the prof's template, it'd be still in line with the idea of spamming paradoxes over Paldea.
>Yeah, but the AI also said that the technology to make such a sophisticated AI doesn't exist in the modern day and that it was built by a human and unless you're trying to suggest that the professor was from the future she didn't build it on her own.
The exact quote is:
>Humanity does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI at present. But the crystals that make up the Zero Lab have made such a thing possible here
The AI could be brought to existence thanks to the crystals. At no point here there's the implication of a "mystery asssistant". And of course, humanity doesn't possess the knowledge if the person who carried it died before publishing and the AI is minding other business.
>Also the AI working with the professor doesn't mean that there wasn't someone else.
The prof wished the AI precisely because there wasn't anyone else and didn't have time to prepare anyone else
>I need another set of hands, but could they be trusted? And how long would it take them to even understand? If only there were two of me.
The prof has been alone ever since their partner left. At no point there's the implication of another assistant; that's just headcanon.
But that other person would just be Arven's other parent
>You would if you weren't sure the experiment was going to succeed. That statement is the prof saying "Oh it turned out as good as me" in a formal way
Anon, it has the exact memories as the professor whether or not it can express that properly for whatever physical reason is moot because it's still an exact copy.
>It just means that the AI acted a bit autistic
That's the thing, it doesn't.
It has brief over-analytical moments but not anything that can be considered rigid and autistic.
But Geeta on the other hand...
>Very well, Champion Nemona. I trust you to handle this in my stead
>An amazing display of talent, even against one as skilled as Champion Nemona
>How good to see you again, Champion Nemona.
>I am Geeta, chairwoman of the Pokémon League, the organization that runs these Gyms
>I do indeed hold that claim. Alongside my role as chairwoman of the Pokémon League, that is
>You see, I have a trait that some might say is inappropriate for the League Chairwoman
She's more robotic than the actual robot.
Look at what she says when you land an SE move
>Yes, that was the correct decision in this situation. Please continue.
It's like that anon, who's girlfriend spoke to him like a wii fit instructor during sex.
>The AI could be brought to existence thanks to the crystals. At no point here there's the implication of a "mystery asssistant".
Anon, the crystals allowed for the time machine to be made and the implication of humanity not having the knowledge would mean that the professor wouldn't either being a human and all.
>And of course, humanity doesn't possess the knowledge if the person who carried it died before publishing and the AI is minding other business.
Anon, if the AI is an exact replica then it would have the knowledge to make AIs and would be able to confirm if the professor knew. Instead it says humanity doesn't, not humanity bar the professor.
You have to read between the lines.
>Geeta
There's not even traces of Geeta having any role in the DLC2. It's been datamined already. All of this bullshit will come to nothing.
Also read slowly this bit again:
>AI progresses over time, that's literally how IRL AI works. That's also how the AI came later to the conclusion the machine was stopped - if it didn't progress beyond the point it was created from the prof's template, it'd be still in line with the idea of spamming paradoxes over Paldea.
>implication of humanity not having the knowledge
If I discovered the cure of cancer, and I was alone in a lab lost 700m underground, and I died before I could tell anyone. Would *humanity* have the cure of cancer?
Yes because youre human and were able to create the cure in your present. People would be able to reverse engineer it, if it was technology from the future that werent discovered yet nobody could replicate it.
Forgot to mention something
>It has brief over-analytical moments but not anything that can be considered rigid and autistic.
That's literally what the journal means, also what I meant colloquially, not literally, with "a bit autistic". Yes I know that's not the literal meaning of autistic, my mistake for forgetting his board is full of actual autists who don't process colloquial language.
But that's the problem with a dogshit language like English. I played in Spanish and from the journal it was pretty clear that the assistant was the AI.
>Anon, that doesn't matter at all. I get what you're saying but you're missing the forest for the trees.
this is pure gibberish without any meaning.
>No I'm saying the assistant can't be the AI because
>1) the AI said it was built by humans
>2) the AI said that humans the knoe9to build it in the present day
Point one doesn't make sense, of course the AI was built by humans, where it's said the assistant mentioned in the journal wasn't built by humans?. Point 2 is where we're going in circles.
>You're not getting it, the AI isn't saying its impossible, it's saying that humans can't build it yet.
Exactly... and it's because they don't have the knowledge, that's literally what the AI says, and the knowledge is lost with a ruined lab and a dead professor. So humanity doesn't have it. Not yet.
>But that's the problem with a dogshit language like English. I played in Spanish
That explains a lot about why you don't understand the story very well.
Out of curiosity though, what does it say in the Spanish version?
>this is pure gibberish without any meaning.
Missing the forest for the trees means you're missing the big picture for the small details in other words you think the way the AI talks is the important part rather than seeing how what they say impacts everything else.
>Point one doesn't make sense
I don't even know why I'm trying anymore because it's clear that there's some kind of language issue on your end
In any case, you take two pieces of information together, not separately and you get a question, if modern humans lack the knowledge to build it but the AI was built by a human, who built it?
Factor in the time machine and now you can say that a human from a different era built it.
That's inference anon, basic logic and reasoning to form a plausible answer.
>and the knowledge is lost with a ruined lab and a dead professor. So humanity doesn't have it. Not yet.
Anon, that's not how it works. If it's made and lost in the same era then a human had that knowledge in the same era.
It doesn't matter if one person or a million know about it, the important part is that it happened and is possible with modern knowledge and technology. P
>Out of curiosity though, what does it say in the Spanish version?
>Productivity has doubled thanks to the new researcher. S/He's somewhat [cuadriculado/a], but his/her knowledge and ability are on par with mine
I didn't translate the term "cuadriculado" (squared) because it doesn't directly translate, but it means someone too technical and over-analytic.
Worth noting this new researcher/assistant is talked about with a gender that always matches the professor's. Same stands for the AI, as there's no "it" or any neutral pronoun in Spanish.
>Aren't Spanish versions notorious for being shitty?
Only name choices, the rest is fine. We can analyze the original JP if you all want.
Do the translator works directly with gamefreak? Or do they have to translate by themselved without references
>Or do they have to translate by themselved without references
What kind of moronic company works like this?
I think gamefreak are pretty moronic. But seriously Im not sure if they just have to translate the texts or do more work behind it to make it coherent in every language
Most translators, especially for non English translations, work separately often going through the publisher as a liason at best.
So
Is just bullshiting
I mean, they get the original script, sure but they just do what they want as long as the general story stays the same.
It's how you get shit like this.
Pokemon thankfully isn't that bad with translations unless you get into Spanish. Especially if it's a Mexican reading traditional Spanish.
Thats what I meant, especially since the original was neutral and spanish is gendered language.
>Same stands for the AI, as there's no "it" or any neutral pronoun in Spanish.
Then that's the issue here, it's not that it's referring to the AI, it's that there's no neutral pronouns but they have to put something.
>So humanity doesn't have it. Not yet.
NTA but if one guy makes it and dies before sharing it humanity still had it. Like that roman cement I want to say? No one in the modern day knows how to make it but it happened, humanity did know how to make it.
The only way the AI's statement would make sense is if it knew the knowledge came from an entirely different era that the professor wasn't a part of which means that someone came from the past or future, most likely the future.
>I played in Spanish and from the journal it was pretty clear that the assistant was the AI.
Aren't Spanish versions notorious for being shitty?
20 years ago
You are thinking about English ones
No, LATAM gays are always up in arms about it.
Because language and manners of speech between Spain and LATAM diverged much deeper than between UK and USA. Even some pronouns are different. So LATAMgays think on Spanish choices of words as cringeworthy - But that doesn't mean they're inherently bad.
t. LATAMgay but literate enough to understand that language can mutate over the years.
Anyway I digged into the text dumps because I couldn't find a Japanese walkthrough
>研究者を 1人増やし 効率が 2倍にn私と同じ 知識と技術を 持っているrn少し 合理的すぎるが 申し分ない
>研究者を 1人増やし 効率が 2倍にn僕と同じ 知識と技術を 持っているrn少し 合理的すぎるが 申し分ない
The only difference is the prof's pronoun (私/watashi for Sada, 僕/boku for Turo).
If someone actually speaks Japanese feel free to translate.
Google translate:
>Increase the number of researchers by one and double the efficiency.nThey have the same knowledge and skills as me.rnIt's a little too rational, but it's perfect.
I don't know in which head this text can imply there's a secret mystery assistant, it's obvious this journal refers to the AI prof.
Use deepl, it's better than Google translate.
>One more researcher, double the efficiency... with the same knowledge and skills as me... a little too rational, but not enough.
>One more researcher, twice as efficient... with the same knowledge and skills as I have... a little too rational, but not enough.
It suggests that there's a full on personality different which would imply someone else who isn't as far gone as the professor.
Cant they read spanish from spain?
The easiest way to solve this matter would be to see what the AI says in Japanese. If it says it was built by humans and the knowledge doesn't exist in the present day then the professor didn't make it.
>At no point there's the implication of another assistant; that's just headcanon.
Except for the sixth journal entry
>My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own.
>A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled.
We know by the AI's words that the professor doesn't know how to make an AI and the AI is a full copy.
>A computer draws on the original professor's knowledge and memories to calculate all of my thoughts and actions.
And we know that wishes aren't involved because the AI confirms it was built by a human.
>An AI is an artificial intelligence created by a human being
There's just no way that the professor could have made by themselves based on the information we have.
>But that other person would just be Arven's other parent
Yeah? They were also a scientist.
>How does this affect the great debate?
Oh and usually that's the reason people use to say that there's another authorised ID capable of activating the time machine.
It's not a factor in other theories
Well acksjulluy the burden of proof is on you 🙂
I dunno why Timegays keep making these threads
The first DLC further points to the imagination/wishgranting shit
Khu said this Khu said that god i wish Khu said get a fricking job you virgins.
>mfw I only know about Khu because imaginationgays can't read.
It's so fricking tiresome to see them do the same thing everyday in threads that used to be chill discussion of lore. I can't wait until the dlc comes out and they can frick off forever.
Atlantis chads won.
The Cynthia that saw Heath?? I guess we’ll have to wait and see!
Just a heads-up to the low-IQ idiots who keep responding to these threads: they are (and always were) troll threads. Threre's typically 1-2 guys who keep playing both sides to keep the arguments going, and they intentionally keep to circular logic to make you guys seethe. You'll never win one way or another - at least until the final DLC drops and spells it out beyond reasonable doubt - so there's no point in engaging and feeding the trolls - they're not actually here for the debate or discussion, they're here to make people fight with each other for their entertainment.
Was going to post a link to the 'how to troll VP' wiki, but it looks like the mods have filtered it - so I guess we know who at least one of the instigators is.
This.
Note how they never want to discuss other theories like Atlantis or Demiurge theory too, they are just trolling
Atlantis theory comes and has decent discussion when imaginationgay isn't around.
The other day everyone had a decent conversation about how an ancient civilisation nuked themselves creating the great crater trying to use Terapagos' power and that whoever made the AI could have been from that time rather than the future.
There's several hints in the game that the future paradoxes are actually 10,000 years old.
I still think paradox mons are just Pokémon that were genetically modified by an ancient civilization that had hyper advanced tech.
>Demiurge theory
No one takes that seriously because the one guy who posts it thinks that the rebis is demiurge related when it's 100% alchemy.
The soijak wiki?
Are you sure it isn't being filtered because of soi?
But you're not wrong, whoever behind the imagination spam is also the guy who keeps on saying that the time machine can do anything when no one ever said that.
Wait, so the Timegay that goes on about the AI is just a moronic shitposter?
How long has he been at it, i don’t usually post in these threads?
Dude, pretty much everyone here is a timegay because it's essential to discussion. It's literally all we fricking know and we have no reason to doubt it.
I see what you’re trying to do
Have a (you) before I leave
moron
Here's that (you) you've been dying for anon, don't you waste it.
I just looked in the archive, and yeah, he’s been at this for a while.
Mental illness.
Blatant samegayging
imagination or time travel.. i honestly can't wait for the BTFO screencap
It's gonna be neither.
I mean, if it's time travel nothing will happen. They don't care enough.
They're like the Nintendogays of this board while imaginationgays are the sonyggers and these threads are Famitsu threads
You didnt provide any for your claims. Otherwise youre litterally saying "because, it just is"
>Terapagos grants wishes and the Professor wished for a functional time machine
imagine the seethe
You know what the best part about that would be?
It would still be a decisive win for time travel.
>[not canon until confirmed by DLC]
vs
>[not canon until confirmed by DLC]
I have one question for imagination theorists:
If the paradoxes are product of imagination, why would the prof miscalculate their behavior? The prof wished the first Raidon to thrive, why would they "wish" a second, stronger and more threatening Raidon?Why the rest of paradoxes threaten the entirety of Paldea instead of just staying happy in the Paradise the prof envisioned? That's obviously something the prof didn't "imagine". The AI didn't say the prof wanted to threaten Paldea, it just said the prof didn't care.
I'm not hellbent on time travel, but as I said before, can't see "imagination" as a cover all answer to everything we can't explain yet.
The original professor didn't miscalculate the behavior of the paradox Pokemon, if anything, they were behaving exactly as expected. Because the Paradox Pokemon are based off of the entries the professor read about in the Scarlet and Violet book, that's how they came out. The book describes all Paradox mons as incredibly strong and aggressive, with one of them even killing an expedition member. When the paradox mons threaten the ecosystem of Paldea, the og professor simply says "that's life lmao" and lets it happen.
The actual anomaly here is the original Raidon the professor gets, since our bikedog is friendly, amicable and easily ridable, it's more in line with the Cyclizar of the modern day, meanwhile the second Raidon is how it "should" have shown up and is in line with what Heath would describe as an Iron Serpent/Winged King as well as every other Paradox Pokemon's behavior. It's possible that the first Raidon was based off of Heath's personal Cyclizar buddy but that's a whole other topic.
The professor was also an avid reader of occulture, and most Occulture entries of Paradox Pokemon also portray them as very dangerous.
>> This creature scatters feathers as it flies around at high speeds seeking prey. It’s thought to be more savage than Salamence, and if you should encounter one, it’s imperative that you avoid actual contact.
>> Eyewitness accounts describe it as resembling a giant Misdreavus at first glance, albeit a highly fierce and aggressive one
>> It’s said that Sandy Shocks is an aggressive sort and that some people who’ve seen it have been attacked as well.
So how it works is
>Professor wants the Pokemon from the book
>the book's descriptions as well as Occulture paint these Pokemon as major threats
>Terapagos grants the wish and the paradox Pokemon come out as massive buttholes
The professor wanting the Raidon to thrive is in line with their original goals as well, they probably wanted little Raidon babies lol.
moronic troll
I get your point, of course the prof wasn't expecting cute puppies to pet. But it still exceeded expectations and still went out of their control. And why the second Raidon would different to the first one, specially when the prof already had a conceived idea of its behavior?
>It's possible that the first Raidon was based off of Heath's personal Cyclizar buddy but that's a whole other topic.
So, that Raidon was imagined by Heath? Where was it all these years before it popped out from the machine?
>But it still exceeded expectations and still went out of their control
Again, the paradox pokemon were within the professor's expectations, the professor had no issue with them being aggressive and dangerous and threatening the ecosystem because the professor is deranged, it's this exact reasoning that made Arven's other parent leave them and why the AI goes against their design to shut the time machine down.
>So, that Raidon was imagined by Heath?
No. all paradox Pokemon came from the professor's mind, I'm saying the og Raidon is friendly because it's possible it was based off of Heath's Cyclizar, who gets his own page because he was such a bro, apparently.
The second possible explanation is that the professor quickly went insane after the first Raidon's summon. note how the prof is nothing but a family man with a dream in the first few entries, but after the Raidon is summoned, suddenly they have a single minded goal, this reminds me, personally, of how Kieran is a meek boy initially before going full schizo after getting his wish granted, is it possible the price of having your wish granted makes you insane? I don't know yet and I'm waiting to see what the game says on this before I say with any finality, but it's something to consider if you dislike the prior explanation.
>the Violet ones don't mention any kind of behavior
>>It’s also said to be cruel enough to take its brilliantly shining blade and cut down anyone confronting it without hesitation.
>>It was reported to have razed an entire building with a high-energy blast...Iron Jugulis is theorized to be a sort of machine-Hydreigon hybrid, as it combines the former’s ruthlessness with the latter’s ferocity.
>>It was said to resemble Volcarona and would descend from the skies, following people around and occasionally even attacking them. Some point to Iron Moth’s aggression as a sign that it is, in fact, a UFO...
Aggressive behavior is cited in both the past and future paradoxes.
>all paradox Pokemon came from the professor's mind
If that's the case then they wouldn't be manifesting after the professor's death.
>who gets his own page because he was such a bro, apparently.
Anon, it has one page about it being a packmule.
It didn't say anything about it personality wise meaning if it was based on what the professor read it just wouldn't have a personality period.
>The second possible explanation is that the professor quickly went insane after the first Raidon's summon
No, the idea of paradise started to rear it's head before the time machine was finished.
>The crystals' power is tremendous! Their unstable output made our corporate backers fret, but...
>If we can harness this energy, it will open up research possibilities we'd only dreamed of.
>At last, paradise will be ours to create.
>If that's the case then they wouldn't be manifesting after the professor's death.
Why not? The time machine is set up to work automatically. It has it's selection of Pokemon to generate and keeps generating them like the professor wanted it to.
>Anon, it has one page about it being a packmule.
Just like the Cyclizar of today.
>No, the idea of paradise started to rear it's head before the time machine was finished.
Yes the professor always wanted their paradise, but they wanted the paradise FOR their spouse and kid, however after the Raidon appears, their entire demeanor changes.
>>I was expecting one new life to treasure, but what fortune to be blessed with this gift as well!
to
>>I need more people. More time. That man walked out not long after the boy was born.
Again this is my personal theory, but I find it strange how the professor's original goal was to make a paradise where they could be happy together, but after obtaining the Raidon, they somehow became bad enough to make the other parent walk, then neglected Arven before biting the dust. How do you describe your son as a gift to be treasured intially, and then just start calling him "the boy"? That's just weird no matter how you look at it, especially since this "boy" was the source of their motivation before becoming insane and selfish.
We never actually meet the real professor and outside of the journal entries, there's no real log of their behavior prior to Arven's birth or the Raidon, but using Keiran as a base, a normal person becoming deranged after making a wish is a possibility. Again, this is just my own theory, I don't want some guy going "hurr imaginationgays all think this" when it's just me.
I also think it's very plausible that the professor was influenced by the same shit that is turning Kieran insane. The prof was also very power hungry, talking the player down about how it's impossible to defeat them and such.
Also, both the professor and Kieran had a certain adoration for a (set of) Pokémon that turned into an unhealthy obsession and then something else entirely.
There's definitely lots of parallels between the two, no doubt about it. The question is only if that's intentional or not.
Oh god I thought I was worried I was a schizo or something. You're right about the parallels of an adoration turning into a warped obsession that leads into villainy, man I wanna know how wish mechanics work so bad, bros.
This is definitely the most foreshadowing we’ve had in a Pokémon story.
This is why I’m dismissing people who say “well it’s a kids game” when it’s continually being proven that there’s more going on than it would initially appear.
After Dokutaro was “revealed” more people were theorising if it had an effect on the professor, heath, and whoever else
This is why arguing about it is pointless since these holes are gradually getting filled as we go along
There’s also the “Loyal” three which could’ve been regular nice Pokémon before their wishes were granted
>could’ve
Ain't no could about it. The dex entries outright say that the toxic chains altered their bodies.
>The time machine is set up to work automatically.
The source would be the professor's mind. You're basically saying a printer should work without something being sent to print.
>Just like the Cyclizar of today
Anon, a packmule isn't a personality.
>however after the Raidon appears, their entire demeanor changes.
It's almost worth noting that after the other professor leaves they never mention paradise again.
>Again, this is just my own theory, I don't want some guy going "hurr imaginationgays all think this" when it's just me.
I mean regardless of your theory most people believe momo corrupted the professor somehow.
>The source would be the professor's mind. You're basically saying a printer should work without something being sent to print.
No, the time machine is being told to "print" the same dozen or so Pokemon over and over, not manually ask to print each Pokemon individually every time.
>> Even as we speak, the time machine continues to automatically draw ancient Pokémon to this time.
>Anon, a packmule isn't a personality.
Anon...Cyclizar have been a part of Paldean culture for ages, they're described as "mild" Pokemon that let people ride on their backs. Our Raidon is the only Paradox Pokemon that isn't innately aggressive, much like a Cyclizar.
The first Raidon is based off Cyclizar's personality, inspired by the one Heath had.
The second Raidon is based off the book entry and/or is just the product of the professor's now twisted mind, since the second one came out long after the professor was alone with the AI, and pretty much immediately killed them and sent our Raidon to us.
>the time machine is being told to "print" the same dozen or so Pokemon over and over, not manually ask to print each Pokemon individually every time.
That's not how a printer works, you still need a source to infinitely produce copies.
Well, a printer couldn't even start printing infinite copies but that's a different matter.
In any case part of the problem with the imagination theory is that it doesn't have any rules meaning arguments against it don't really exist since it can be changed on the fly.
At the same time that leads to a lot of contradictions.
>Anon...Cyclizar have been a part of Paldean culture for ages, they're described as "mild" Pokemon that let people ride on their backs. Our Raidon is the only Paradox Pokemon that isn't innately aggressive, much like a Cyclizar.
Anon... You're saying its based specifically on Heath's we don't know anything about Heath's to say that it is.
On top of that the Raidon has multiple forms, five if we're being technical, and going by the dex entries only it's battle form was described.
>and pretty much immediately killed them and sent our Raidon to us.
Well, we don't actually know if it did or not
Well, you're the one who made the printer allegory in the first place.
>In any case part of the problem with the imagination theory is that it doesn't have any rules
What are you even talking about here? The time machine is said to work automatically, it keeps printing the same Pokemon the professor wished for--the Pokemon the professor read about in the Scarlet/Violet book, on it's own. The professor wanted this to happen and put several systems in place to keep it running indefinitely no matter what, it works like this by design.
>In any case part of the problem with the imagination theory is that it doesn't have any rules
Dude, what? The game states the rules plain as day, but you're saying they don't actually count because a printer can't do it. Trying to discuss anything is impossible with you people, man.
>The time machine is said to work automatically, it keeps printing the same Pokemon the professor wished for--the Pokemon the professor read about in the Scarlet/Violet book
Yeah
But how does it function?
With time travel it's constantly throwing out pokeballs and bringing them back.
With imagination it just does, there's no rhyme or reason to it, you can just bullshit an excuse when something doesn't make sense like the professor being dead but the machine still working despite being the source or the machine still working when the AI's strongest desire is to turn it off.
See what I mean?
>and put several systems in place to keep it running
And that's another thing, come to think of it. Why would it need an interface that can be shut down?
>The game states the rules plain as day
Yeah, for time travel. Not so much imagination.
Stop replying to him, he’s clearly he’ll bent on dragging this out.
Yeah, it's really just reading like he'll argue about anything as long as he can say imagination bad, shit sucks, the lore is fun this gen but it's impossible to talk about it.
Is this really what you're going to do every time someone asks you for more details on the imagination theory?
You're just being asked to explain how it works.
It shouldn't be that hard for you as someone who believes in it.
I guess the first Raidon being nice could also be due to his mindset. Depending on when he was possessed, that could’ve had an impact on the personality of the second raidon and general paradox mind which were all out for blood when we went to area zero.
>It's possible that the first Raidon was based off of Heath's personal Cyclizar buddy but that's a whole other topic.
It's really not.
There's no way the professor could just assume what Heath's Cyclizar was like based on a single picture. Not to mention it wasn't as simple as
>first Raidon good!
>second Bad!
Because the whole reason the Raidon was taken away from Arven was that it suddenly became aggressive.
>Yeah, but then one day Koraidon/Miraidon just went nuts against some wild Pokémon...
>The professor was also an avid reader of occulture, and most Occulture entries of Paradox Pokemon also portray them as very dangerous.
You shouldn't just focus on the Scarlet paradoxes because the Violet ones don't mention any kind of behavior.
I mean, iron hands was said to be a human, if the Turo imagined that based on Occulture then you wouldn't be able to catch it because it wouldn't have the ability to shrink like a pokemon. In fact none of them would because they're machines.
>The professor wanting the Raidon to thrive is in line with their original goals as well, they probably wanted little Raidon babies lol.
No because then it would just manifest more than two Raidon and there wouldn't be a second aggressive one to attack the first.
The whole imagination theory falls apart under scrutiny so easily that I'm surprised people still believe it.
If the AI wasn’t made by the professor they wouldn’t have said the crystals made it possible
Yeah they would, for two reasons
One, the crystals enables time travel by powering the machine.
Two, it's very possible that it relies on the whole memory recall thing that we see in the anime and the seeing dead people thing in Kitakami, the AI could be using a crystal with the professor recorded on it.
>There's not even traces of Geeta having any role in the DLC2. It's been datamined already
Anon, the dlc has been scrubbed with very little relevant data remaining. Also Briar doesn't appear in some places but we know she's an extremely relevant character.
Going by a scrubbed datamine, won't get you anywhere.
>Also read slowly this bit again:
It's not relevant to the conversation.
That said this
>it'd be still in line with the idea of spamming paradoxes over Paldea.
Is something you're glossing over, it's a copy of the professor at the end of things after the professor wanted to spam paradoxes. It would have known why the professor wanted that regardless of it changing over time but it doesn't. Which most likely ties into the idea of momotaro being some kind of mind control pokemon.
>Would *humanity* have the cure of cancer?
Yes, anon. A human creating the cure for cancer in the modern day does in fact mean that modern day humans would be capable of it.
>It's not relevant to the conversation.
You're saying the the "assistant" can't be the AI because the AI doesn't act "robot enough". AI progresses over time. It acts and thinks more humanly than it did when it was newly built. That's what I'm saying.
It's not that present time AI doesn't fit with the journal's description, anyway. For me it does perfectly. But if present time AI isn't "robot enough" for you, there goes the explanation on why.
>Yes, anon. A human creating the cure for cancer in the modern day does in fact mean that modern day humans would be capable of it.
Not if the knowledge wasn't passed. The AI says "humanity doesn't have the knowledge at present", not that "it's forever unable to develop it". Research takes years, anon, crystals fast tracked it.
>You're saying the the "assistant" can't be the AI because the AI doesn't act "robot enough".
No I'm saying the assistant can't be the AI because
1) the AI said it was built by humans
2) the AI said that humans the knoe9to build it in the present day
Everything else is just a minor detail you can pick out, those two points are the important part.
>AI progresses over time. It acts and thinks more humanly than it did when it was newly built.
Anon, that doesn't matter at all. I get what you're saying but you're missing the forest for the trees.
>Not if the knowledge wasn't passed.
It doesn't matter if it was passed on or not, the fact is that it was possible in the present day.
Just because it wasn't recorded doesn't mean it's impossible.
>The AI says "humanity doesn't have the knowledge at present", not that "it's forever unable to develop it". Research takes years, anon, crystals fast tracked it.
You're not getting it, the AI isn't saying its impossible, it's saying that humans can't build it yet.
The crystals allow for the time machine and AI to be made
They allow for ogerpon’s masks, the whole lake where you can see dead people, Pokémon to Tera, etc
My theory is that Tera crystals are data storages. That's how the professor could make the AI, they transferred their memories into it. And as they said, it was only possible thanks to the crystals.
Oh yeah and the whole visions of dead people stuff is also just replayed memories of those people that are stored in the crystals.
Guys i think the Anon spammer bot is breaking.
Well yeah, everyone knew that when it tried to say the AI came before the time machine.
>Announce that this is a troll thread and OP is disingenuous
>Suddenly, same two IPs double-down and try to keep the argument going
Gee, I wonder what happened here. You guys really need to get a fricking life already. That you kids need a fricking wiki to teach you how to troll at all is pathetic enough, but the fact that you've kept at it since even before the base game's release is really, really sad. Go outside and touch some grass - you need it.
Believe it or not except for that one homosexual everyone is just discussing things normally.
Because its fun, wtf cares
I guess this brings into Dokutaro’s powers
Assuming you break free from its control, something awful could happen
>Heath getting told he made shit up and all his credibility ruined
>The professor dies
>Kieren ??? (Unless we save him since we’re the player character that’s involved in the current events)
Don't forget
>the loyal three get clubbed to fricking death
I thought about that, but I deliberately left them out since they did come back, and seem to be under the influence too. Maybe that’s what allows them to come back?
Maybe Kieran's negative emotions allowed Dokutaro to grow more powerful, which made it strong enough to revive them or some shit.
Honestly the whole reviving shit seems morely like an asspull, wonder if they'll be able to justify it.
Maybe, yeah
It definitely feeds off negative energy and Kieran seems perfect due to his young age making him way more emotional and his obsession with ogerpon for how long.
Heath was also stated to be in the data mine, yeah?
I’m guessing this will be through a flashback sequence displayed the disk Pokémon (forgot how to spell his name) since recordings were a thing with the Tera crystals people talked about, or something along those lines.
It’s all coming together
Bros... what if the Paradox mon's aggressive behaviour is also because of Dokutaro?
The pieces are falling into place…
Wonder what Dokutaro’s special form will be. I can’t imagine it’ll just be a goofy looking peach
I’m curious as to how it got to Heath (assuming it did) and the overall timeline of events
Would it be Kitakami > Heath > Professor > current events?
I know people were talking about glimmora and it’s potential connection to Dokutaro, so maybe that’s something too. Have to see how it plays out.
Up in the air until the final dlc comes out, but the anime seems to be hinting that it's actually a third thing and both time travel and imagination is wrong
Does the anime make any mentions towards Dokutaro, or anything?
From what I can tell it’s gradually exposing teraturtles abilities, but within the game the two are intertwined.
It doesn't talk about dokutaru, just shows that memories are a part of turtle's powers. That being said, the anime has always done it's own thing, so while I find it unlikely, this could have nothing to do with what it's powers in the game are.
It's sad, like you said, this gen has some of the best lore in a pokemon game yet, but so many anons ruin the fun theory crafting by turning it into arguments whenever a theory they don't like is mentioned
>whenever a theory they don't like is mentioned
You can blame Khu for that one. Just mentioning an alternate theory for imagination sends one homosexual into a hissyfit.
I'll never understand why some anons go into an autistic fit when they see people talking about time travel or imagination. I guess some anons have nothing better to do with their time
Everyone just kind of hates imagination because the people who believe it just tend to be dipshits who don't pay attention or even play the game and just make shit up as they go. Earlier in this thread there was one anon who didn't know that the AI was made after the time machine was built and was adamant that he was right for example.
The people who hate time travel just hate discussion that doesn't include imagination to the point where they've made a boogeyman called "timeschizo" that they cry about every single time someone references something from the game regardless of if they actually believe in time travel or not.
I wish I were joking about that but you can see it in this thread.
Don’t reply to him anymore, he’s still clearly trying to stir shit up
The thread's dying anyway so you should just stop being such a dumbass and talk like a normal person.
He's really obvious now that you mention it.
>post says that anyone arguing about the theories is autistic
>respond by arguing about the theories
Trolling or not, I've always found shit like this funny
He's not exactly the smartest person.
Hell probably claim samegayging now too.