What went wrong?
What would you have done differently if you were in Miyamoto's shoes?
What went wrong? What would you have done differently if you were in Miyamoto's shoes?
What went wrong?
What would you have done differently if you were in Miyamoto's shoes?
These games were highly well received and sold like 30 million copies.
People only started to turn on them when NSMBU and 2 both released the same year with very little difference visual wise. The gameplay has always been solid.
this
NSMB's gameplay was not the problem
the problem was nintendo rehashing the same game over and over and over and over and even releasing one of those rehashes as a fricking launch title for a new console
The gameplay was at least pretty good. It was the lack of style that got me. It looks so plain, borings, safe, corporate
the first one on the original DS was incredible. the rest were generic and soulless
Substantiate your claim. What makes the first one incredible and the subsequent games bad when there's very little differences between them? Is it just because the first one did it first. Or did you just enjoy the touch screen mini games THAT much?
Nta, but mini mushroom and blue shell are all time great powerups, and even the mega mushroom is great when you’re in the amazing VS mode. That should have been a staple of the New series. Criminal that it never returned. Bosses being varied creatures was nice variety too, even if still not mechanically noteworthy. And no co-op meant the levels were compact instead of overly wide and boring like the rest of the series
i 100%'d it for the first time recently, it was very average. i spent more time on the minigames
Miyamoto got kind of infected with the idea of Mario being a mascot like Mickey Mouse. He took inspiration from Disney and all the negatives that come along with such a decision. much like when the mouse became more polished, he stopped having a personality. piece of art in this game is a shiny polished plastic bright set piece. They took everything that made those 2D games look like a surreal dangerous but fun adventure, and made it sort of seem like a theme park.There's just nothing remarkable going on visually, which seems bizarre considering all the insane things that are really going on
>if you were in Miyamoto's shoes
Why do people think Miyamoto personally makes every Nintendo game? It took him 10 years to get Pikmin 4 made, he has no authority or influence.
>no authority or influence
Except he does. He has a special title, that everyone still goes to him for his approval. If he doesn't like it, they stop making it that way.
>he has no authority or influence
He doesn't make every game but he certainly has authority and influence. Don't exaggerate the other way.
I liked the whole of the NSMB series and I refuse to pretend I didn't. I liked NSMB better than SMB3, even.
It was a sidescroller and the first new one since Super Mario World made out of Super Mario 64 DS's scraps and it was exceedingly well received, I don't know what OP wants me to think "went wrong"
>Wrong
Only Ganker dislike this game.
There is no bad official Mario games, BTW.
Nothing is wrong with the first 2 NSMB games in a vaccum.
The problems came when the series refused to innovate or change and the entire Mario franchise pretty much soon revolved around "dude, remember SMB1 -> World? (and not SMB2 USA or any of the Land games)." mostly due to NSMB doing so. Nearly every Mario spinoff was also in a bad place at time as well, and things like Mario Party 10 only having boards based off NSMB world themes, or the narrative downfall of Paper Mario due to Tababe's frickery, which led to a stupid conspiracy theory that largely pinned the blame on these games.
TLDR: Actually do something different for NSMB 2 and U instead of literally reusing the same assets from the Wii game.
I kind of thought they'd get rid of the size change for health mechanic. they hadn't had mario shrink when hit since World at that point, I was surprised to see it when they made this.
is U good if you didn't play the others? i'm always thinking about getting it but it looks kind of boring single player. but then i thought that about 3d world and 3d world was great
>is U good if you didn't play the others?
Yeah, its a fun platformer. In fact you are probably better off not playing them. They are not bad, but each soup games is basically a level pack of the same game disguised as a different one.
I find it genuinely boring. Picked it up and put it down 2 or 3 times now. Super Luigi U is supposed to be better though
If 2 and U had different visuals and at the bare minimum different music no one would complain about the series. Wonder isn't that disconnected from New Super Mario Bros outside of the visuals. There's no fricking excuse for all the recycled music in 2 and U. People's complaints are completely superficial. It's like the Wii U not being named Wii 2.
If the Wii U was named the Wii 2 it might've actually sold better. Too many non-gamers thought it was just a tablet controller for the Wii for the longest time, not too dissimilar to the UDraw game tablet. Wii 2 isn't the best name by far but at least people would immediately know it's the sequel to the Wii.
it also just wasn't that different than the Wii. I think my biggest beef with nintendo is their console cycle. There really are never that many games on a nintendo console, the ones that are good are definitely good, but as soon as they start having a decent selection they move on to whatever else. i guess it was backwards compatible at least, but that was only because it was barely different
The Wii U name was stupid but so was the Wii. Hell, I'd say playstation is a pretty fricking stupid name too. So was Xbox 360. The main issue was the games. The Wii U had an awful library, excluding BotW because that wasn't released until it was dead already.
The reason why the switch knocked it out of the park while the Wii U bombed is that the switch had BotW, Splatoon 2 and Mario Odyssey in the first year while the Wii U had New Super Mario and Mario 3D World.
>Miyamoto
Dude hasn't been involved in development for at least a decade
This. He just walks around and look at projects gives a thumbs up or tells them something philosophical or some advice and fricks off. He only helps with his fav up pikmin.
Do whatever it took to release a fully 3D Mario game on the Wii U (not a 2.5D one like 3D World).
Break up the string of stagnant platformers so people wouldn't be as irritated.
People talk about this series like it had an endless barrage of games but there's only 4 entries
I think people mostly associate it with Mario's sterilization that occurred rather than the games themselves being bad. Cause the worst pretty about these games is the lack of new music or visuals between installments. They play better than the original games.
U, 2 and Luigi being in such short succession didn't help things. Also the fourth game being 2 also didn't either. Were both kind of a straw that broke the camels back thing.
Following the success of Wii Sports and the failure of the gamecube Nintendo assumed that the path forward was to simplify all their games as much as possible so that they could appeal to moronic people. Unfortunately they came to find out that moronic people are not a reliable demographic to spend 300-400 dollars on video game systems every 6-7 years.
Nintendo's lesson from the gamecube should have been that their games simply weren't good enough. It wasn't an issue of being too complex, their games on the gamecube were short, rushed, padded out and full of weird bugs and jank. In many cases they also lacked in terms of scope compared to some other games that were releasing at the time like GTA San Andreas. Instead they wasted nearly 15 years making casual slop that no one wanted.
I suppose they never felt like they were competing with grand scale games. Nintendo thinks "gamers" will buy their systems as supplemental, and the niche that just likes their games will buy them because other systems don't really offer what they do. Plus, I believe they are the only company that doesn't sell their hardware at a loss, so I don't think they need the large sales, and failures don't hurt them like if a PS5 failed or something
They eventually realized they were competing with the grand scale, which is why we got BotW, but it took them way too long to realize that. Bigger scale games started taking off in the early 2000s but Nintendo didn't throw their hat in that ring until 2017.
true, same thing with online. Still, BoTW and its sequel are the only ones that feel that way. I thought Mario Odyssey felt way to short, or lacking in worlds compared to what should be expected from them now. I don't think I'll buy another Nintendo system and ive bought one since the NES. after the wii u i thought for sure i was done, they tend to draw me in with a singular title, but i just don't really trust their vision at the moment
The actual problems with the cube were that:
A - no DVD support outside of some random Panasonic machine from Japan
B - The Mini Discs
The lack of DVDs already made it a tough sell compared to the PS2 and Xbox, but the mini discs held back too many games from actually being able to fit on the damn thing.
The games were definitely an issue.
The gamecube only had 3 incredible exclusives that weren't niche genres, Metroid Prime, Melee and Twilight Princess which was released after the console was dead. There were a couple other great games but they were pretty niche.
This would have been fine for Sony or Microsoft, but Nintendo doesn't get the third party games. They didn't have GTA.
I feel like thats happening again. the most worthwhile games are finally out, and the switch 2 is on its way.
The switch had way more great games in popular genres. Off the top of my head,
BotW
TotK
Mario Odyssey
Luigi's Mansion
Animal Crossing
Mario Party Superstars
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
Splatoon 2 and 3
Smash Ultimate
Monster Hunter Rise (was timed exclusive, still helped sell consoles)
and Mario Wonder is looking like a big hit too
They've had some notable misses, and a good number of their games were definitely lacking in ambition, but the switch has a fantastic catalog of exclusives which is why it sold.
BotW was a wii u game so i'm not counting that
Mario kart 8 was a wii u game
Mario Party Superstars is a rehash of older mario party games not really much new
which leaves splatoon 2 and 3, ToLK, Smash Ultimate, Mario Odyssey, Luigis mansion, animal crossing and monster hunter rise on your list, and i just don't think its that iimpressive. Mario Wonder does look great, although i find myself worried about its length and content.
Discounting BotW is stupid but discounting MK8 makes no sense at all. They were always going to have a Mario Kart game on the switch, whether they ported 8 or not.
i dont think its stupid to discount a port of a game as not being an original game for a system. I like both those games btw and i think it was the right choice for nintendo. They are a well run business, I just think by the end of the cycle it should have a larger library of new things. it just doesnt make the system as valuable imo
It’s kind of silly to discount those while also limiting yourself exclusively to non niche games. You’re cutting things off arbitrarily at both ends. Mario Kart 8 and BotW are new to basically anyone but people invested in Nintendo enough to also have an interest in niche games
all i'm trying to say is there is a slow trickle of games throughout a nintendo consoles life and its like "you want a racing game? well i hope its mario kart" which is a pretty specific type of racing game, although popular. in each genre there isn't much variety, you kinda have the nintendo version. They are good games but i just dont think it has the value of the other systems, which have more to choose from. Although porting a mario kart is a smart thing for them to do, for the reason you say, it doesn't change the fact that their output is slow compared to these other systems.
I am GLAD they aren't like those other systems that greedily gobble up studios to churn out more games, but it also makes me less inclined to buy a system that i will find myself waiting half a year for something worthwhile to come out on
I think you’re simply incorrect that other consoles offer more value, especially if we are talking exclusives, but even with worthwhile third parties added. And your supporting argument is a list someone else provided to you that only included the best selling games. But you buy whatever you want. Nintendo + PC suits me.
i mean i have a switch, ps4 and pc. and thats kinda part of my point, its a supplemental system. if you like games, you probably can't just own a switch and be satisfied.
I spend the vast majority of my time playing Switch as opposed to PC. The current gen consoles have had maybe one exclusive a year that has interested me, and those are being ported to PC anyway. If we’re talking from the perspective of someone poor as you seemingly want to do, a PC is the only choice with Switch as the only other one worth considering. And even then, Switch’s subsection of 3rd party and stronger first party, along with its pricepoint, makes it a nice solo option compared to its contemporaries.
im just talking about consumer choices. i think if everything was free most people wouldn't pick a switch, and then you can extrapolate pricing dynamics from there. this is why nintendo consoles don't outsell other consoles in general. unless they appeal to children and coed hang outs. if they are a niche system thats fine, thats what they wanna do, if they are popular they skew towards marketing to the demo the wii did. They certainly are making money, but i would say the slow releases is a negative, i don't see how you could argue otherwise. I think as time goes on, you're just buying some hardware to play a nintendo game and it seems like its sort of a roadblock.
this is also why nintendo stays where it is, if it created a system with the hardware of the others, it wouldn't last, because there wouldn't be enough content to justify it.
its ok to like nintendo, i like nintendo games, there's just some draw backs
>the releases are slow based on…
>I baselessly assume people wouldn’t take a switch if it were free, so this is a great basis for argument
You’re spouting complete bullshit. As I said, feel free to have whatever preferences you want. That’s all this is after all. But you’re not worth conversing with
"waaahhhh nintendo is perfect"
Thanks for the extra vindication of my assessment
>Nintendo doesn't get the third party games
It honestly got more third parties that gen compared to the N64. Sonic found a good home there after the failure of the Dreamcast, more people probably played Adventure 2 on GCN than the original console it was made for. Resident Evil was also on the system for some time.
The thing is that a lot of third party games couldn't even come to the thing due to size limitations. Larger games like GTA would not fit on a minidisc, nor would plenty of other games. Nintendo also had an image problem, people just thought that more mature games wouldn't even sell on the thing thanks to shit like the Windwaker artstyle or them losing Rare alongside franchises like Perfect Dark and Killer Instinct. This is a problem when mascot characters (in moron terms: Scrimblos) were starting to die out. Even Sony games like Jak and Daxter went more mature with it's sequels.
I liked the minidiscs because i really thought the diminished load times were a good thing.
Game(s) were fun. I would only disable the HOP HOP BING WAHOO!
Mario roguelike
it went woke
NSMB on the DS was absolute kino. On the Wii it was also good. Everything after was kinda unnecessary.
>Never make NSMB 2
>Change Mario U's artstyle to something more unique
>Include Luigi U with Mario U at launch
>Include Wii in Deluxe, remove the stupid changes they made
DS and Wii are fine they way they are. The franchise would have an amazing reputation.