I don't understand why people have such a problem with starters being "character-like" I always hear the same thing: >They're species, not characters.
Starters are special Pokemon that are only offered at the start of the game for the most part, they are rare and supposed to be your partner so it makes sense why they are given more character now. Especially considering that regular wild Pokemon are still designed as simple animals and monsters
>they are rare
there are many rare pokemon that aren't like that >supposed to be your partner
then they should be open-ended enough for the player to make their own interpretation and enjoy it the best way they can
being given what is essentially an npc in another fantasy game and being told "yeah there's a whole bunch of these and you can breed to get more of them" is always gonna be weird
The point is that they are one of a kind. You can breed them and end up with an army, but usually you will only meet one Bulbasaur.
So giving the starter a specific personality and treating it as a character makes sense. It would be a problem if was spread out among every species, but regular pokémon you find in the wild are rarely like that
First, jobmon is more meant as a pejorative than neutral designator, like the difference between Black person and Black: the former singling out bad apples mostly.
Thus "jobmon" always implies thematic hamfistedness, to be poorly executed conceptually, which in the context of this series means to sidestep naturalistic design and take away from the idea of Pokemon being wild creatures that could have evolved independantly of humans.
Greninja is very naturalistic. You can tell it's a ninja, but its design uses nothing not intrinsic to a Pokemon's own body to achieve that effect, and when you examine it closely nothing jumps out as "ninja" in fact, it's just a frog. It is on the border of subtle and obvious which is good, because it's obviously meant to be a ninja frog but the way it achieved that effect was through subtle touches that aren't beating you over the head with the idea.
A bad example, i.e. jobmon proper, is Hitmonchan, which has clothes including boxing gloves and a humanlike face, making it just an ugly man boxing rather than a creature that conceivably exists as its own evolved creature in an ecosystem or whatever. There's no subtlety, nor attempt at naturalism.
the only problem with that is that there's no star-shaped water thing irl to base it off, so it's just this hamfisted invention made especially for greninja with no cleverness to it, yes
Being themed after something is not the same as being a jobmon.
In Chesnaught case it is even weirder because no one would even know it was based on that if it was not by the other Kalos starters suggesting the RPG theme
Theming is fine, it only becomes a problem when it crosses too far into anthro-human territory. >Decidueye, Empoleon, Alakazam (examples)
The theme is subtle enough. Not a fursuit, not wearing clothes, not too human. Decidueye is inspired by an archer, but it’s still believable enough as a species. At the end of the day, it’s just an owl and uses plants and an appendage to fight in a human-inspired way. Empoleon has subtle emperor design features, but at the end of the day it looks like a monstrous emperor penguin. It’s still a Pokémon, a pseudo-animal species. Nothing too anthropomorphic about it. Alakazam is themed with the idea of a psychic magician, but it still looks like a creature that happens to have psychic powers, and resembles yokai/mythology more than a human. >Cinderace, Hitmonchan, Quaquaval
Human clothes. Or at the very least, fur/features shaped into human clothing. And a very literal human job translation lacking any subtlety. Cinderace is a soccer player and could be a human if not for the nubby hands and ears. And its fur is shaped and colored to look like a soccer uniform with shorts. Hitmonchan literally is wearing clothes, including boxing gloves and shorts. It’s too human. Quaquaval is wearing pants and has human legs with random sausage talons at the bottom. Too human, not enough bird. Not to mention it’s way too flamboyant. I’m not even against flamboyant people, but this bird is literally a guy in a bird suit at a pride parade and Quaxly deserved better.
There’s just a line. Sometimes, they go subtle and hit the mark. Sometimes, they cross the line and make a human.
Greninja is the only acceptable jobmon (and even then it's debatable whether Greninja is actually a jobmon) because the ninja aspects are actually cleverly and subtly integrated into the design without making it obvious that it's a ninja. Most people who see Greninja for the first time can't tell that it's ninja themed.
>because the ninja aspects are actually cleverly and subtly integrated into the design without making it obvious that it's a ninja. Most people who see Greninja for the first time can't tell that it's ninja themed.
homie please be serious. It's literal Naruto tier on the nose with it's theme. It's literally wearing a scarf and baggy pants while doing a standard ninja pose
I used to think it was moronic to say people don't see these obvious things, but I know "major pokemon fans" who played every game, but didn't know crocalor had an egg on its head (despite picking fuecoco; they also didn't know skeledirge was a singer), weren't aware that vikavolt was a railgun, and had no clue that sivally is a reference to arceus. These people literally turn their brains off and massively reduce their standards when playing pokemon games, because they complain when games have ugly graphics and poor peformance, but then praise swsh and sv for being amazing games that delivered beyond expectations.
What category do Pokemon like Cubone and Mimikyu fall in? They're not "jobmons" but they have a single character trait that applies to the whole species.
>Drummer >Soccer Player >Spy >Magician >Dancer
Pretty clear. Human job, with humanoid body, anthropomorphic appearance and personality, looks like a fursuit, is a human-animal hybrid with a job.
There are 2 ways to go about it: >Animal with blended humanistic elements
Infernape
Empoleon
Serperior
Emboar
Samurott
Chesnaught
Greninja
Decidueye
Skeledirge
>A literal furshitter that just punched in
Blaziken
Delphox
Incineroar
Primarina
Rillaboom
Cinderace
Inteleon
Meowscarada
Quaquaval
Blaziken should’ve kept more chicken features instead of becoming a human in a fursuit. Same goes for Quaquaval who should’ve kept more duck-like features.
how is Infernape an animal but Rillaboom a furshitter? Rillaboom looks way more organic, except for the fricking drum, while Infernape has a lot of shit and accesories on it
it's a tree trunk, and wooden sticks, you can picture a gorilla messing around with that shit in the wild, but not a fricking sun wukong-cosplaying monkey with metallic protective pads on its body
>Fiery hair
Okay >Hunched over unless to look threatening
Good >Playing on "Monkey king-fu" where it's an actual fricking monkey
Nailed it
>Bushy hair
Okay >Hunched over until it pulls out a stump every match
Uhh >Instead of playing on how gorillas beat their chest it uses fricking SCULPTED drumsticks to occasionally hit the stump
Awful
Infernape doesn't have a tacked on prop that impedes on the animalistic design, Simple as.
Jobmon doesn't mean anything, it's another imageboard word that only imageboard "people" use. If anything, Pokémon has downplayed over time the whole idea of Pokémon having real world jobs and working in human vocations. It's the same with bipedal/humanoid mons, they've been there since the very beginning.
>What would you define as a jobmon.
A pokemon with natural characteristics resembling human characteristics without literally doing these >Cinderace
Rabbits have very strong legs so cinderace has very strong legs to throw fire balls with powerfull kicks that resembles a soccer player >Inteleon
Lizards have many abilties like goggle eyes whip-like tails chameleons can disguise themselves and some can glide in the air they are equipped like a classic action movie spy with lots of survival gadgets but they aren't really spies >Primarina
Mermaids sing primarina sings that's all
Blaziken, Infernape, Serperior, and Emboar are also jobmons. >Blaziken
wienerfighter >Infernape
Martial artist >Serperior
Monarch or noble >Emboar
Warlord
a pokémon whose design is inspired by s real life type of person (mostly a professional) to its detriment. To its detriment meaning: it is hard to see the Pokémon as a member of a species which evolved to look like that instead of a singular character with its defined personality.
Incineroar and Cinderace are the only ones that are really that bad honestly. Even Inteleon does the bare minimum of "it only kinda looks like it has a tuxedo on instead of flat out wearing a tuxedo" but then those two are flat out wearing shirts and pants/belts.
thing I don't like
Non fat animal pokemon that is themed around a job and isnt from the first 4 generations.
I don't understand why people have such a problem with starters being "character-like" I always hear the same thing:
>They're species, not characters.
Starters are special Pokemon that are only offered at the start of the game for the most part, they are rare and supposed to be your partner so it makes sense why they are given more character now. Especially considering that regular wild Pokemon are still designed as simple animals and monsters
I just don't see how all Dartrix in the world have the same personality
You accept that Chansey are all kind and helpful right?
>they are rare
there are many rare pokemon that aren't like that
>supposed to be your partner
then they should be open-ended enough for the player to make their own interpretation and enjoy it the best way they can
being given what is essentially an npc in another fantasy game and being told "yeah there's a whole bunch of these and you can breed to get more of them" is always gonna be weird
The point is that they are one of a kind. You can breed them and end up with an army, but usually you will only meet one Bulbasaur.
So giving the starter a specific personality and treating it as a character makes sense. It would be a problem if was spread out among every species, but regular pokémon you find in the wild are rarely like that
starters are definitely NOT one of a kind. The only non-legendary pokemon I can think of that is supposed to be one of a kind is Spiritomb
First, jobmon is more meant as a pejorative than neutral designator, like the difference between Black person and Black: the former singling out bad apples mostly.
Thus "jobmon" always implies thematic hamfistedness, to be poorly executed conceptually, which in the context of this series means to sidestep naturalistic design and take away from the idea of Pokemon being wild creatures that could have evolved independantly of humans.
Greninja is very naturalistic. You can tell it's a ninja, but its design uses nothing not intrinsic to a Pokemon's own body to achieve that effect, and when you examine it closely nothing jumps out as "ninja" in fact, it's just a frog. It is on the border of subtle and obvious which is good, because it's obviously meant to be a ninja frog but the way it achieved that effect was through subtle touches that aren't beating you over the head with the idea.
A bad example, i.e. jobmon proper, is Hitmonchan, which has clothes including boxing gloves and a humanlike face, making it just an ugly man boxing rather than a creature that conceivably exists as its own evolved creature in an ecosystem or whatever. There's no subtlety, nor attempt at naturalism.
I agree with you on everything on Greninja until it shoots a literal shuriken shaped water star.
>Water starter has weapons = Job
What is Blastoise's job?
firefighter.
the only problem with that is that there's no star-shaped water thing irl to base it off, so it's just this hamfisted invention made especially for greninja with no cleverness to it, yes
Out of those starters, I'd only say that Scorbunny, and Intelleon are jobmon.
Incineroar also
Incineroar has the wrester's belt, but that's not enough to make it a jobmon. It's more an extra detail than being defined by it.
pokemon with a theme that isn’t fat
What is even the logic behind Empoleon being a jobmon?
I can understand Samurott, even if I find it stupid, but Empoleon?
I cant understand Samurott. Or Chesnaught. Or even the Owl.
emploleon- butler and poseidon
samushart- samurai
chestnuts- knight
dickintheeye- librarian, robin hood, and archer
but op is missing all hoenn starters. those are themed and jobmonned too
Being themed after something is not the same as being a jobmon.
In Chesnaught case it is even weirder because no one would even know it was based on that if it was not by the other Kalos starters suggesting the RPG theme
thememon jobmon, it doesn't matter. theyre all lazy dogshit only zoomers defend them
>Alakazam = magician
no
>Hitmonchan = boxer
yes
>Hypno = hypnotizer
no
So like
Alakazam = magician
Hitmonchan = boxer
Hypno = hypnotizer
?
Theming is fine, it only becomes a problem when it crosses too far into anthro-human territory.
>Decidueye, Empoleon, Alakazam (examples)
The theme is subtle enough. Not a fursuit, not wearing clothes, not too human. Decidueye is inspired by an archer, but it’s still believable enough as a species. At the end of the day, it’s just an owl and uses plants and an appendage to fight in a human-inspired way. Empoleon has subtle emperor design features, but at the end of the day it looks like a monstrous emperor penguin. It’s still a Pokémon, a pseudo-animal species. Nothing too anthropomorphic about it. Alakazam is themed with the idea of a psychic magician, but it still looks like a creature that happens to have psychic powers, and resembles yokai/mythology more than a human.
>Cinderace, Hitmonchan, Quaquaval
Human clothes. Or at the very least, fur/features shaped into human clothing. And a very literal human job translation lacking any subtlety. Cinderace is a soccer player and could be a human if not for the nubby hands and ears. And its fur is shaped and colored to look like a soccer uniform with shorts. Hitmonchan literally is wearing clothes, including boxing gloves and shorts. It’s too human. Quaquaval is wearing pants and has human legs with random sausage talons at the bottom. Too human, not enough bird. Not to mention it’s way too flamboyant. I’m not even against flamboyant people, but this bird is literally a guy in a bird suit at a pride parade and Quaxly deserved better.
There’s just a line. Sometimes, they go subtle and hit the mark. Sometimes, they cross the line and make a human.
Alakazam is a baphomet
It's not a jobmon, it just has spoons, which is a jobmon problem
Not all of those are jobmons, i really can't bring myself to picture a fricking incineroar, cinderace or inteleon in the wild
If Empoleon has a "job" then Serperior also applies as they're both based on royalty
When are we getting wagie starters?
Anything with a suit can pass off as a salaryman for the japs, the next penguim is your best bet anon
Greninja is the only acceptable jobmon (and even then it's debatable whether Greninja is actually a jobmon) because the ninja aspects are actually cleverly and subtly integrated into the design without making it obvious that it's a ninja. Most people who see Greninja for the first time can't tell that it's ninja themed.
>Greninja is the only acceptable jobmon
you mean out of the bunch presented to you
>because the ninja aspects are actually cleverly and subtly integrated into the design without making it obvious that it's a ninja. Most people who see Greninja for the first time can't tell that it's ninja themed.
homie please be serious. It's literal Naruto tier on the nose with it's theme. It's literally wearing a scarf and baggy pants while doing a standard ninja pose
I used to think it was moronic to say people don't see these obvious things, but I know "major pokemon fans" who played every game, but didn't know crocalor had an egg on its head (despite picking fuecoco; they also didn't know skeledirge was a singer), weren't aware that vikavolt was a railgun, and had no clue that sivally is a reference to arceus. These people literally turn their brains off and massively reduce their standards when playing pokemon games, because they complain when games have ugly graphics and poor peformance, but then praise swsh and sv for being amazing games that delivered beyond expectations.
What category do Pokemon like Cubone and Mimikyu fall in? They're not "jobmons" but they have a single character trait that applies to the whole species.
the worst designs possible
Any pokémon /vp/ seethes over because they weren't created with their generation of children or personal vision of the franchise in mind.
Truth
Had Remoraid kept its beta design would it be considered an objectmon?
man this is ugly and poorly executed
they needed to straighten this up, but axed it entirely
I only like Greninja, Cinderace and Decidueye
>Drummer
>Soccer Player
>Spy
>Magician
>Dancer
Pretty clear. Human job, with humanoid body, anthropomorphic appearance and personality, looks like a fursuit, is a human-animal hybrid with a job.
What is Decidueye's job?
There are 2 ways to go about it:
>Animal with blended humanistic elements
Infernape
Empoleon
Serperior
Emboar
Samurott
Chesnaught
Greninja
Decidueye
Skeledirge
>A literal furshitter that just punched in
Blaziken
Delphox
Incineroar
Primarina
Rillaboom
Cinderace
Inteleon
Meowscarada
Quaquaval
The second list are absolute failures
Blaziken should’ve kept more chicken features instead of becoming a human in a fursuit. Same goes for Quaquaval who should’ve kept more duck-like features.
>A literal furshitter that just punched in
>Blaziken
low iq
post discarded
how is Infernape an animal but Rillaboom a furshitter? Rillaboom looks way more organic, except for the fricking drum, while Infernape has a lot of shit and accesories on it
>rillaboom
>organic
It has a fricking drum and sticks. It is as a matter of fact one of the least organic jobmons.
it's a tree trunk, and wooden sticks, you can picture a gorilla messing around with that shit in the wild, but not a fricking sun wukong-cosplaying monkey with metallic protective pads on its body
>Fiery hair
Okay
>Hunched over unless to look threatening
Good
>Playing on "Monkey king-fu" where it's an actual fricking monkey
Nailed it
>Bushy hair
Okay
>Hunched over until it pulls out a stump every match
Uhh
>Instead of playing on how gorillas beat their chest it uses fricking SCULPTED drumsticks to occasionally hit the stump
Awful
Infernape doesn't have a tacked on prop that impedes on the animalistic design, Simple as.
Swap Infernape, Emboar and Chesnaught with Blaziken, Rillaboom and Meowscarada and this is spot-on.
Frick GreBlack person
you're so cool for your unjustifiable contrarianism
Jobmon doesn't mean anything, it's another imageboard word that only imageboard "people" use. If anything, Pokémon has downplayed over time the whole idea of Pokémon having real world jobs and working in human vocations. It's the same with bipedal/humanoid mons, they've been there since the very beginning.
>What would you define as a jobmon.
A pokemon with natural characteristics resembling human characteristics without literally doing these
>Cinderace
Rabbits have very strong legs so cinderace has very strong legs to throw fire balls with powerfull kicks that resembles a soccer player
>Inteleon
Lizards have many abilties like goggle eyes whip-like tails chameleons can disguise themselves and some can glide in the air they are equipped like a classic action movie spy with lots of survival gadgets but they aren't really spies
>Primarina
Mermaids sing primarina sings that's all
An actual monstrous creature instead of lazy recolored/cartoon animals
Jobmons aren't bad, except Galar's
Blaziken, Infernape, Serperior, and Emboar are also jobmons.
>Blaziken
wienerfighter
>Infernape
Martial artist
>Serperior
Monarch or noble
>Emboar
Warlord
A Pokemon literally defined by an occupation.
a pokémon whose design is inspired by s real life type of person (mostly a professional) to its detriment. To its detriment meaning: it is hard to see the Pokémon as a member of a species which evolved to look like that instead of a singular character with its defined personality.
They have human roles and dress like humans
Incineroar and Cinderace are the only ones that are really that bad honestly. Even Inteleon does the bare minimum of "it only kinda looks like it has a tuxedo on instead of flat out wearing a tuxedo" but then those two are flat out wearing shirts and pants/belts.
Once again it's all starter autism. This is why you box your starter immediately.
machoke and vigoroth, they help you move your shit in the new house in gen 3
any humanoid fighting type for that matter... hitmonchan, conkeldur etc.