It’s an outdated concept. Although video games as a whole are too. It’s just a disgusting zombie at this point propped up by nostalgia and soi homosexuals
Its not, the executions miss the point of the concept. MMOs were supposed to be online live worlds, with some sort of progression, just so you can rub it in the face of other players. BUT! There was also a very social aspect to it. Those 2 things (social aspect + progression) worked magnificently in tandem, and its far from obsolete.
Look at roblox. Not even fricking kidding. Its basically a mmo. Not an mmorpg, but a mmo. And its one of the biggest multiplayer games out there.
The issue devs and teams run into when making a mmo is not making the social part the absolute core of the game. Nearly every part of the game should either force socialization, or lead to pottential or accidental socialization.
Example: Runescape grinding
People grind the same shit in the same spot, its boring and tedious, so they start socializing. And that led to the game lasting.
For me - it's truly alive and immersive world with real players being a natural part of it.
Of course, now they a just even worse version of open world rpgs with some multiplayer activities.
It's like a single-player open world game, except everyone you see on screen has a real person controlling them. It's a pretty cool idea from a technology standpoint.
Most people that play these games nowadays are unbelievably obnoxious minmaxing autists with severe mental problems though, so it's nowhere near as fun as it was 20 years ago, when most people you encountered were just normal, cool people who wanted to be your friend.
>cool people who wanted to be your friend.
Lol stfu. That was always the minority. The majority was always guys pretending to be a girl to get stuff from you.
Maaaaan
Frick this
I cannot be getting back into WoW
But it feels like a missed opportunity if I don’t
I probably should just have some discipline and not play right
You used to be able to write books that other players would read and shit but now they're just shitty singleplayer RPGs with a chatbox that only schizos use while anyone sensible hangs out in a private Teamspeak/Discord voice server.
MMOs don't have an appeal anymore.
WoWgays ruined the MMO
at least Everquest had some elements of meaningful player interaction. Now it's all gone outside raids (which Destiny does better anyways)
There's a major difference between gameplay/economic systems fostering that community and a handful of schizos doing it for fun in Orgrimar. UO was EVE Online seven years earlier in a fantasy setting. WoW and EVE aren't the same and the same goes for this.
This is how I feel about MMOs in general. Either you played games like Runescape, EVE Online, Asheron's Call, Star Wars Galaxies, Tibia or UO or you didn't. A whole generation or two has gone by knowing nothing but WoWshit.
I don't see the appeal in modern MMOs. They're always designed in a way that makes you reach max level in a matter of weeks, and then you're stuck playing the shitty timegated endgame forever.
I preferred when MMOs were more about the journey than the destination, where you could play your character for months, or even years without reaching endgame.
>I preferred when MMOs were more about the journey than the destination
But that journey was consistently shit. I've literally never played a theme park MMO that had a fun leveling experience.
I thought they were more comfy. You could log on and off whenever you felt like it, you could progress at your own pace, and you weren't restrained or tied to daily and weekly resets dictating the stuff you were allowed to do within that limited time frame.
>You could log on and off whenever you felt like it
Not if you wanted to play with your friends. >you could progress at your own pace
No I couldn't. >and you weren't restrained or tied to daily and weekly resets dictating the stuff you were allowed to do within that limited time frame.
Instead I was restrained by the fact that none of the content I need to do to progress is actually fun, which is a much worse problem.
>I preferred when MMOs were more about the journey than the destination
But that journey was consistently shit. I've literally never played a theme park MMO that had a fun leveling experience.
EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, and Ryzom all took a long time to level in and still do. Leveling also lasted a very long time in original WoW. You seem to just not like this sort of gameplay. Its appeal is slow and hazardous exploration of a new world, the chance encounters this causes with other players, and the experience of becoming familiar with the community on your server. This always accompanies somewhat repetitious combat and a slow rollout of skills and tactics, because you are working toward endgame expertise which involves knowledge of everyone else's skills and needs.
In a good MMO you are supposed to be leveling with other players, often out of necessity and often with strangers, and experiencing monster camps and standard dungeon hazards repeatedly in such a way that you get to know a few people each session and it works as practice. You sit down to play for a few hours, you encounter some people in the area where you are leveling, you form a party and hunt some monsters, and as your success increases you push to the next camp or next area. At the end of the night you know a little more about the game and you have some new friends. This is a slow burn and naturally unappealing to people who want regular hero's journey beats with regular changes in scenery and frequent memorable story events.
Sadly, the old way appeals to almost nobody these days, because it's essentially a social event for lonely people, and those people are easily hooked on reward loops, which social media does better (i.e. worse) than MMOs.
>EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, and Ryzom all took a long time to level in and still do. Leveling also lasted a very long time in original WoW.
I never liked any of these games. >Its appeal is slow and hazardous exploration of a new world, the chance encounters this causes with other players, and the experience of becoming familiar with the community on your server.
This is not something inherent to old theme park MMOs, which should be obvious by the fact that this describes non-theme park MMOs that have nothing to do with the gameplay of theme park MMOs. >This always accompanies somewhat repetitious combat and a slow rollout of skills and tactics, because you are working toward endgame expertise which involves knowledge of everyone else's skills and needs.
If the amount of complete morons who don't know how to play at endgame level/level cap in every single MMO with a level system to date didn't tip you off, this has literally never worked. >In a good MMO you are supposed to be leveling with other players,
No.
>where you could play your character for months, or even years without reaching endgame
I can not stress this enough, it doesn't matter how good an MMO is if it's dead. If you walk into any major city or larger quest hub and see nothing but NPCs and maybe 3 other players it's not a place where you want to spend your time.
Zones die because of the leveling bullshit. Good level scaling and horizontal progression addresses this. Look at Guild Wars 1&2. Everyone's level 80. Never raised the gear cap or level cap. Every content is alive because they're not artificially killing 'old zones' over numbers autism.
Let's be honest, most of these gear treadmill MMOs would be immediately improved if they just dropped leveling entirely and balanced the whole game around a single level. Let people apply their own difficulty sliders and shit.
GW1 has a completely different design from other MMOs and GW2 is a detestable piece of shit. You won't see other MMOs taking design cues from GW1 and I'd prefer for them to never take design cues from GW2.
Regardless of how abominable GW2 may be, it handled horizontal progression right with the scaling and mastery systems. Their post-80 progression should be about expanding their gameplay not raising their damage numbers at the expense of throwing away years or even decades worth of content.
The appeal for me is I want to replace my real life with a video game. Because my real life is so horrible. But they don't make any of the MMOs good enough to really replace my life with. I have no chance of living in real life so I have to live through a screen. My only chance at life is online
>fantasy MMO >very low magic >imagine lord of the rings movies >if you know any magic at all you are basically a god so it's reserved for legendary lore characters >light survival elements like eat/drink/rest/extreme weather conditions >early medieval technology >grunt gear is chain mail, basic open helmet, spear, broadsword, shield >knights get chain mail, breastplate, plate helmet, shins, crows beak, flail, 1.5 handers and shield >4 life paths(classes) >deeply religious monk/nun(males can specialize into a priest or crusader, females the abbess) >scoundrel(can specialize into a prostitute or bounty hunter) >conscript(starts as grunt, can become a town guard or knight) - male only >adventurer for hire(murder hobo and grave robber, get caught and it's your head) >different life goals and story per path >basic class trinity: monks and nuns offer spiritual support, conscripts are the front line, scoundrels and adventurers are of low moral character and looked down by society, everybody needs them, nobody would admit it) >horses are a thing, if you can afford them, same as wagons >no random loot, you pick a weapon and specialize with it(learning new moves) >nuns and monks write chants and study scripture to improve their abilities >quests are tailored to your life path >monks and nuns are hired for philosophical tasks and advice >scoundrels steal shit and spy, combat is rare >conscripts do army shit like menial labor for their superiors and training >adventurers have to hunt down contracts in the underworld >dungeons, caves, ruins are a thing all over the world >5 man party >full collision so blocking a hallway /w shields is a valid strategy >AAA visuals and animations
>different life goals and story per path >no random loot (implying player reliant economics) >horses are a thing, if you can afford them, same as wagons (considered loot traditionally, once again implying some sort of sandbox environment where animal husbandry exists and those mounts are sourced from them)
2 years ago
Anonymous
yeah, player driven economy but developer made EVERYTHING ELSE. dungeons, boss events, quests, characters, story lines, class paths and zones.
I just want Elden Ring with more people in it.
Imagine hundreds of player ghosts you could chat with and invite/invade, 20man group content, 20v20 pvp, ooohh.
>Elden ring wasn't bad SP
It was. It was the worst soulsborne game by far. That's saying something given that Dark Souls 1's latter half was completely unfinished.
What the frick are you talking about you ESL moron?
2 years ago
Anonymous
talking about how not everyone is a hipster with console game
2 years ago
Anonymous
Are you suggesting that Bloodborne doesn't deserve to be included in From Software's catalog because it wasn't on PC? That's moronic. Especially when the Souls subgenre started on a Playstation 3.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, Im just saying that not everyone who has enjoyed Elden ring knows about some obscure console game >hur dur muh original soulslike was best
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is the dumbest post I've ever read. Congrats.
Bullshit. Elden ring SP was one of the most enjoyable SP games i have played in the recent decade. You could take it super slow with 0 tryharding and just enjoy uncovering the world which was massive. It was a fun open world game where i felt rewarded for exploring without stupid towers to climb just so i can jump off them.
For me it was the idea that all the collectables and stuff you earn in the game has lasting value, but it was all a lie, every expansion makes all your work obsolete.
Why do you think Rockstar still milking Online?
Why Blizzard cant let go of Classic?
It’s an outdated concept. Although video games as a whole are too. It’s just a disgusting zombie at this point propped up by nostalgia and soi homosexuals
Its not, the executions miss the point of the concept. MMOs were supposed to be online live worlds, with some sort of progression, just so you can rub it in the face of other players. BUT! There was also a very social aspect to it. Those 2 things (social aspect + progression) worked magnificently in tandem, and its far from obsolete.
Look at roblox. Not even fricking kidding. Its basically a mmo. Not an mmorpg, but a mmo. And its one of the biggest multiplayer games out there.
The issue devs and teams run into when making a mmo is not making the social part the absolute core of the game. Nearly every part of the game should either force socialization, or lead to pottential or accidental socialization.
Example: Runescape grinding
People grind the same shit in the same spot, its boring and tedious, so they start socializing. And that led to the game lasting.
For me - it's truly alive and immersive world with real players being a natural part of it.
Of course, now they a just even worse version of open world rpgs with some multiplayer activities.
Are we stuck in some sort of 20 year loop?
It used to be about making friends while roleplaying but good luck doing that with the generalized complete autism of the human population now lol.
>body type
It's like a single-player open world game, except everyone you see on screen has a real person controlling them. It's a pretty cool idea from a technology standpoint.
Most people that play these games nowadays are unbelievably obnoxious minmaxing autists with severe mental problems though, so it's nowhere near as fun as it was 20 years ago, when most people you encountered were just normal, cool people who wanted to be your friend.
>cool people who wanted to be your friend.
Lol stfu. That was always the minority. The majority was always guys pretending to be a girl to get stuff from you.
>20 years ago, when most people you encountered were just normal, cool people
I can almost guarantee that you were not playing MMOs 20 years ago
contraceptive
accurate
erp playground
wow for furries
ff14 for pedophiles
there isn't any, i'm just so lonely bros
you're gonna Wrath of Lich Classic with me right?
RIGHT?
PLS SAY RIGHT!!?
what body type are you picking bro
nah bro im out
ill go play some rimworld or something
Are you Australian? I plan to start a new lvl 1 character on the 26th if you’re interested.
I'm sticking to private, thank you very much.
Classic WoW is fun, nuff said
Maaaaan
Frick this
I cannot be getting back into WoW
But it feels like a missed opportunity if I don’t
I probably should just have some discipline and not play right
You used to be able to write books that other players would read and shit but now they're just shitty singleplayer RPGs with a chatbox that only schizos use while anyone sensible hangs out in a private Teamspeak/Discord voice server.
MMOs don't have an appeal anymore.
WoWgays ruined the MMO
at least Everquest had some elements of meaningful player interaction. Now it's all gone outside raids (which Destiny does better anyways)
As if there isn’t a massive massive fanfiction and message board community for WoW
There's a major difference between gameplay/economic systems fostering that community and a handful of schizos doing it for fun in Orgrimar. UO was EVE Online seven years earlier in a fantasy setting. WoW and EVE aren't the same and the same goes for this.
You don't understand and you never will.
This is how I feel about MMOs in general. Either you played games like Runescape, EVE Online, Asheron's Call, Star Wars Galaxies, Tibia or UO or you didn't. A whole generation or two has gone by knowing nothing but WoWshit.
the appeal is building up your character and making them stronger.
Dungeon dwelling with other people. Shame WoW is in the shitter and FF14's trials aren't the same even though the boss fights are excellent.
what mmo has the best dungeons?
I don't see the appeal in modern MMOs. They're always designed in a way that makes you reach max level in a matter of weeks, and then you're stuck playing the shitty timegated endgame forever.
I preferred when MMOs were more about the journey than the destination, where you could play your character for months, or even years without reaching endgame.
>I preferred when MMOs were more about the journey than the destination
But that journey was consistently shit. I've literally never played a theme park MMO that had a fun leveling experience.
I thought they were more comfy. You could log on and off whenever you felt like it, you could progress at your own pace, and you weren't restrained or tied to daily and weekly resets dictating the stuff you were allowed to do within that limited time frame.
>You could log on and off whenever you felt like it
Not if you wanted to play with your friends.
>you could progress at your own pace
No I couldn't.
>and you weren't restrained or tied to daily and weekly resets dictating the stuff you were allowed to do within that limited time frame.
Instead I was restrained by the fact that none of the content I need to do to progress is actually fun, which is a much worse problem.
EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, and Ryzom all took a long time to level in and still do. Leveling also lasted a very long time in original WoW. You seem to just not like this sort of gameplay. Its appeal is slow and hazardous exploration of a new world, the chance encounters this causes with other players, and the experience of becoming familiar with the community on your server. This always accompanies somewhat repetitious combat and a slow rollout of skills and tactics, because you are working toward endgame expertise which involves knowledge of everyone else's skills and needs.
In a good MMO you are supposed to be leveling with other players, often out of necessity and often with strangers, and experiencing monster camps and standard dungeon hazards repeatedly in such a way that you get to know a few people each session and it works as practice. You sit down to play for a few hours, you encounter some people in the area where you are leveling, you form a party and hunt some monsters, and as your success increases you push to the next camp or next area. At the end of the night you know a little more about the game and you have some new friends. This is a slow burn and naturally unappealing to people who want regular hero's journey beats with regular changes in scenery and frequent memorable story events.
Sadly, the old way appeals to almost nobody these days, because it's essentially a social event for lonely people, and those people are easily hooked on reward loops, which social media does better (i.e. worse) than MMOs.
>EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, and Ryzom all took a long time to level in and still do. Leveling also lasted a very long time in original WoW.
I never liked any of these games.
>Its appeal is slow and hazardous exploration of a new world, the chance encounters this causes with other players, and the experience of becoming familiar with the community on your server.
This is not something inherent to old theme park MMOs, which should be obvious by the fact that this describes non-theme park MMOs that have nothing to do with the gameplay of theme park MMOs.
>This always accompanies somewhat repetitious combat and a slow rollout of skills and tactics, because you are working toward endgame expertise which involves knowledge of everyone else's skills and needs.
If the amount of complete morons who don't know how to play at endgame level/level cap in every single MMO with a level system to date didn't tip you off, this has literally never worked.
>In a good MMO you are supposed to be leveling with other players,
No.
>where you could play your character for months, or even years without reaching endgame
I can not stress this enough, it doesn't matter how good an MMO is if it's dead. If you walk into any major city or larger quest hub and see nothing but NPCs and maybe 3 other players it's not a place where you want to spend your time.
Zones die because of the leveling bullshit. Good level scaling and horizontal progression addresses this. Look at Guild Wars 1&2. Everyone's level 80. Never raised the gear cap or level cap. Every content is alive because they're not artificially killing 'old zones' over numbers autism.
Let's be honest, most of these gear treadmill MMOs would be immediately improved if they just dropped leveling entirely and balanced the whole game around a single level. Let people apply their own difficulty sliders and shit.
GW1 has a completely different design from other MMOs and GW2 is a detestable piece of shit. You won't see other MMOs taking design cues from GW1 and I'd prefer for them to never take design cues from GW2.
Regardless of how abominable GW2 may be, it handled horizontal progression right with the scaling and mastery systems. Their post-80 progression should be about expanding their gameplay not raising their damage numbers at the expense of throwing away years or even decades worth of content.
Populated zones are literally irrelevant in guild wars 1 because every map is instanced.
That said, even if gw1 didn't have instances, it still has way smarter design to keep early zones relevance.
>gw2
give me the holy trinity or give me death.
Raiding is trash I'm not coming back
The appeal for me is I want to replace my real life with a video game. Because my real life is so horrible. But they don't make any of the MMOs good enough to really replace my life with. I have no chance of living in real life so I have to live through a screen. My only chance at life is online
I want a big social MMO fantasy world where I can live out my fantasies of being an antisocial butthole.
>fantasy MMO
>very low magic
>imagine lord of the rings movies
>if you know any magic at all you are basically a god so it's reserved for legendary lore characters
>light survival elements like eat/drink/rest/extreme weather conditions
>early medieval technology
>grunt gear is chain mail, basic open helmet, spear, broadsword, shield
>knights get chain mail, breastplate, plate helmet, shins, crows beak, flail, 1.5 handers and shield
>4 life paths(classes)
>deeply religious monk/nun(males can specialize into a priest or crusader, females the abbess)
>scoundrel(can specialize into a prostitute or bounty hunter)
>conscript(starts as grunt, can become a town guard or knight) - male only
>adventurer for hire(murder hobo and grave robber, get caught and it's your head)
>different life goals and story per path
>basic class trinity: monks and nuns offer spiritual support, conscripts are the front line, scoundrels and adventurers are of low moral character and looked down by society, everybody needs them, nobody would admit it)
>horses are a thing, if you can afford them, same as wagons
>no random loot, you pick a weapon and specialize with it(learning new moves)
>nuns and monks write chants and study scripture to improve their abilities
>quests are tailored to your life path
>monks and nuns are hired for philosophical tasks and advice
>scoundrels steal shit and spy, combat is rare
>conscripts do army shit like menial labor for their superiors and training
>adventurers have to hunt down contracts in the underworld
>dungeons, caves, ruins are a thing all over the world
>5 man party
>full collision so blocking a hallway /w shields is a valid strategy
>AAA visuals and animations
literally Mortal Online 2
shame the devs are weird about not having servers in the US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv3IJEO3QPY
>devs outsourcing content creation to players
nope, dropped, never picked up, disregarded instantly
>I want a sandbox with emergent gameplay ~~~but not like that!!!!11~~~
filtered keep dreaming then
what makes you think i said
>I want a sandbox with emergent gameplay
can you quote me that part?
>different life goals and story per path
>no random loot (implying player reliant economics)
>horses are a thing, if you can afford them, same as wagons (considered loot traditionally, once again implying some sort of sandbox environment where animal husbandry exists and those mounts are sourced from them)
yeah, player driven economy but developer made EVERYTHING ELSE. dungeons, boss events, quests, characters, story lines, class paths and zones.
>very low magic
Gay af, how can you even call it fantasy without Wizards throwing magic missiles everywhere.
I just want Elden Ring with more people in it.
Imagine hundreds of player ghosts you could chat with and invite/invade, 20man group content, 20v20 pvp, ooohh.
>I want Elden Ring with more people in it
I don't. Elden Ring was a pile of shit.
Elden ring wasn't bad SP, but the dungeons were all too short and sweet, hardly any reason to coop anymore.
>Elden ring wasn't bad SP
It was. It was the worst soulsborne game by far. That's saying something given that Dark Souls 1's latter half was completely unfinished.
>soulsborne
not everyone has or cares about consoles
What the frick are you talking about you ESL moron?
talking about how not everyone is a hipster with console game
Are you suggesting that Bloodborne doesn't deserve to be included in From Software's catalog because it wasn't on PC? That's moronic. Especially when the Souls subgenre started on a Playstation 3.
No, Im just saying that not everyone who has enjoyed Elden ring knows about some obscure console game
>hur dur muh original soulslike was best
This is the dumbest post I've ever read. Congrats.
Bullshit. Elden ring SP was one of the most enjoyable SP games i have played in the recent decade. You could take it super slow with 0 tryharding and just enjoy uncovering the world which was massive. It was a fun open world game where i felt rewarded for exploring without stupid towers to climb just so i can jump off them.
The are the best gender for escapism. Literally a second life
For me it was the idea that all the collectables and stuff you earn in the game has lasting value, but it was all a lie, every expansion makes all your work obsolete.
They mimick the hunting, gathering, and warfare of Stone Age life.