What's the deal with sbmm? Why do people hate it so much? I usually see highly skilled players/streamers complain about it because they feel entitled to destroying newcomers for their "content" or personal enjoyment. Am I missing something?
 Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
 UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
have you ever played a game with sbmm that didn't suck
sbmm is garbage because of the mm part, not the sb part. The sb part just never works as intended.
>What's the deal with sbmm? Why do people hate it so much?
Because it doesn't actually exist, at least not the way people think. EOMM, on the other hand, very much does and is almost 100% what's actually happening when people think they're playing a SBMM game.
Yeah its just pure cope and its annoying to listen to. Have you actually sat down and listen to someones insane ramblings about sbmm? Half of the shit they say doesn’t even make sense
Dynamic lobbies based on 100 players last game performance but still somehow finding instant lobbies and its incredibly accurate a single good game of success instantly changes you a completely different playerbase and this is how it is for literally every single player in the game?
Lmao. Too much faith in devs
Its very basic bracket systems that are so fricking large theirs no way it would ever inpact you in a reasonable way and probably noob lobbies until you played a few games
Same thing as the old noob only servers that littered server browsers
I think the peak of the cope was when people were b***hing about sbmm in nee cod specifically and praising black ops 2.
And the guy that worked on black ops 2 matchmaking system came out and said its literally the same system as now, AND TWITTER BLASTED HIM WITH INSANE BASELESS RAMBLINGS ABOUT HOW THE GUY WHO MADE THE SYSTEM THEIR SUCKING OFF IS WRONG ANOUT SAID SYSTEM
Theirs also a lot of annoying discussions and history changing allegations like how the sbmm forces everyone to run meta loadouts unlike the old games
But half of all lobbies in in waw running mp40 drum mag and mw2 acrs/ump and cod 4 mp40s/m4s
What the frick. Its always been like this
People like to win and get a lot of kills. Its literally always been this way, nothing changed. Theirs just as many tryhards as their ever been
cracked mw2 didn't have sbmm
>pic
CoD4 had fricking server lobbies lmao.
Not on console? Yoy know the platform 99% of cod players were on
Who fricking gives a shit about the experience of people playing an FPS on a controller?
Okay. So you just going to sidestep that the pc experince didnt matter to most players which is the whole point to just dick wave that you played a casual video game on a different platform.
Yes, people playing on a garbage sub-optimal setup that can't even play the fricking genre of the game they are playing properly, should have their experiences ignored.
>People talking about how games were better before garbage matchmaking systems were forced
"ummmm consoles have always been shit so really nothing has gotten worse :D"
lmao have a nice day
>discussion is about sbmm
>affects all of the games on console and most of the games on pc
>um one of the games had servers on pc
Okay? What are you even arguging. How is it relevant.
Its funny to because mw2 was the only playable pc cod FOR years because server admins can’t help themselves and add to many dumb rules.
You remember waw which every server is a fricking croch only or have shit map totstions? Or bo1 that banned almost all guns and crouch only?
Meanwhile mw2 you can just play mw2
Servers are overrated as frick and the only people who jerk them off never even played games thst use server browsers
You cant even play unreal 2004 because server admins are literally moronic.
>You remember waw which every server is a fricking croch only or have shit map totstions? Or bo1 that banned almost all guns and crouch only?
No, I only played CoD4 and then was like "lmao frick CoD has gone to shit" then went back to playing CoD2 and UO.
no one I knew played it on console you blithering amerimutt
You and your moronic freinds didnt make up most of the playerbase
Are we in denial that cod isn’t a console based franchise?
Because it is.
The console experince is how almost everyone experienced cod4. Sorry you were outnumbered and by a frick ton
>The console experince is how almost everyone experienced cod4
lmao do amerimutts really?
Yes anon. The casual console shooter was mostly played on console
I have no idea why you keep saying amerimutt, this was true for literally everywhere
Are you pretending or just actually moronic?
Okay then why are you even replying
Your clueless about the situation?
>Yes anon. The casual console shooter was mostly played on console
>shifting 99% to mostly
epic moron
99% is mostly. What is this point of this. This isn’t even relevant to sbmm
Its like you just want to argue, homie get some b***hes on your phone.
You should have better things to do then argue schematics about irrelevant numbers.
Do you honestly believe cod4 was more popular on pc, because it just wasn’t.
>Okay then why are you even replying
>Your clueless about the situation?
The problems due to matchmaking systems are universal. I've also slightly played one of the recent ones, no idea what it was called. It sucked.
Sbmm b***hing was mostly a cod thing. My post that started your asshurt directly references games you didn’t play
You are clueless on the situation, its okay
Im not even that big if a fan of cod if your trying like slight diss it to upset me, its not going to work. I don’t care most of them are garbage
>Sbmm b***hing was mostly a cod thing
Possibly, and I assume their b***hing was probably garbage for dumb reasons. Matchmaking systems do ruin games, but not for the reasons people generally say.
>if your trying like slight diss it to upset me, its not going to work.
I was only stating as an amendment to my previous statement of having not played the series past CoD4, it's not entirely accurate, but my experiences with the series after that have been brief.
no one cares what happened on console
except for people upset about sbmm which was the same as cod4 on console which most of the playerbase is on
I must remind you this is literally the whole conversation we are having.
you are a moron. i have no idea why you guys keep bringing this up like its a point
>except for people upset about sbmm
they are pc players who want their old servers and lobby systems
>which was the same as cod4 on console
irrelevant what it was on console
>which most of the playerbase
doesn't matter where most of the playerbase was
stop talking about consoles and console games and go back to your console gaming subreddit.
>in a thread about sbmm
>a thing that people were specifically upset about in cod
>a literal console game
>”Dont talk about console games in the console game thread”
Holy frick the iq of this board gets lower by the day.
Also Server browsers are overrated as frick and only mouth breathers who never used them think their the best thing ever.
Only morons that shell out money for said servers only do so to add on rules they personally like
This happens so much over time the majority of the playerbase is now forced to play homosexual shit
They also never said a reasonable player limit probably because it affects donation rate if possible donators can’t join so now every single game is 32v32 on a map made for 5v5 and its just a unfun clusterfrick
Server browsers made wolfet and every single cod unplayable that used them.
I don’t want to play your homosexual shit when i launch cod i want to play cod
no one cars consolebabby
frick outta here
>Dynamic lobbies based on 100 players last game performance but still somehow finding instant lobbies and its incredibly accurate a single good game of success instantly changes you a completely different playerbase and this is how it is for literally every single player in the game?
It's because most of the "players" are bots, they've just gotten bots so good that nobody can tell the difference anymore.
> Am I missing something?
Nope. You hit the nail on the head.
Bonus points when people who argue that they should be able to stomp on bad players then turn around and complain that their friends refuse to play with them because they don’t like getting stomped on
>their friends refuse to play with them because they don’t like getting stomped on
One of the biggest issue with SBMM is that if I'm good at the game and want to party up with my friend who is average, it's gonna drag him up to my league and he's gonna get shit on the whole time and have very little fun. SBMM should be called "ranked" and be it's own playlist.
So you’re saying it’s not fun to get shit on every game?
>He is so bad at videogames that he will consistently get shit on in a lobby of random players
That sounds like the kind of person that defends SBMM alright
>SBMM should be called "ranked" and be it's own playlist.
And you just split the player base.
Now you will only find tryhards in ranked and a pubstomp in unranked.
No one has fun now and the game dies sooner.
Yeah just look at how dead CSGO i-
Oh wait.
because it's pointless except for 1v1 modes
Normal game:
>Average lobby is filled with average players
>Your skill has a direct impact on your performance
>As you improve, your win/loss ratio improves, kill/death ratio, highest killstreak, and in addition to the fun of winning, you have these indicators of your progress and prowess
SBMM game
>In theory, lobby is filled with people of about your level
>Whether you're great or awful you get a roughly 1.0 Win/loss and comparable k/d
>Your reward for getting better is the same 1.0, the same average killstreak
>But with the twist that the matches get slower as you run into the conservative players who protect their k/d to be considered "good" and they get more and more samey as the meta strategies and loadouts show up more often
>Also most SBMM algorithms suck ass so your one solid performance is gonna put you in a game above your league where you'll get demolished and then rubber banded into a lobby where you're up against moronic amputees
>Your reward for getting better is the same 1.0, the same average killstreak
Your reward is having higher rank as proof of your skill. Similar argument can be used against no matchmaking, you just keep slaying noobs and the game never officially acknowledges your skill.
>But with the twist that the matches get slower as you run into the conservative players who protect their k/d to be considered "good" and they get more and more samey as the meta strategies and loadouts show up more often
= People start improving their game, and it becomes more competitive. If people use same builds or the game is boring, it just means that the game balance is poor and needs more rewarding mixup possibilities.
Yeah pretty much. It's a weak beta male mindset.
because good players don't want to play against each other if there is any risk of connection issues. cbmm is better
>why do people hate it so much
Because when I wanna play casual, I want it to just be casual. I don't want the game or the players to care about dumb shit like making the matches reach an arbitrary level of "fairness," because to care in the first place is to betray the nature of casual. People should just play ranked if they want SBMM.
>they feel entitled to destroying newcomers for their "content" or personal enjoyment.
it's a million times easier to do this in SBMM. they can just smurf for free access to an entire lobby of moronic babies they can destroy. and there's nothing you can do about it.
It's usually one of 3 things:
1) incels are angry they are forced to play with people close to their level and not moronic children
2) incels being salty the game does not entitle them to every match being a stomp in their favour
3) incels having terminal adhd and seething that matchmaking takes a while at their skill bracket
Literally no one else cares
>b-but muh casual play
You want to stomp shitters not play casually homosexual. Actual skilled people when they want to play casually just fricking do it. They are not shit at the game and don't need to defend their rank they can get it back anytime
>b-but muh 50/50
You're not supposed to get 60-70%+ winrates if you actually play with people of your skill. If you get stuck with 50/50 at shit rank you just fricking suck and need to either git gud or learn to cope.
>muh friends
Make a smurf and only play it with them while using some garbage or support. Or get friends that are not dogshit at videogames
>i don't like to wait
Nobody fricking cares go suffer
If you don't hate sbmm then sorry but you are low skill
Because if you are above average in any way the sbmm or more likely eomm is just there to make you miserable. It's solution to you being good is making you fight players way higher than you and giving you the most awful squad mates to handicap your kdr. It's said before but the algorithm is designed to drag your wins back to 50/50 and your kdr to 1.0
You could be top 2% skill wise in the entire game but your experience is a stagnated mess and literally being fed artificial losses.
Now if you are a 0.05 kdr 0% win rate bot of a teammate sbmm will be a boon because now the game will give you higher skill teammates to carry your worthless butt and easy lobbies to make sure you don't cry and quit. Because the algorithm wants your kdr to 1.0 even if you don't deserve it.
Tl;Dr people who need sbmm are crybabies who can't get good and given free carries
>bAAAAh let me stomp noobs because i don't want to actually play the game like games were played since the beginning of time
That's not what I said midwit
Meanwhile (you)
>waaaa protect me from scary big kid players mommy
>waaaa I'm trying revise history where sbmm existed for the classics when in fact we were free to stomp you
>waaaa I don't want to get better let me stay in daycare
>waaaa big name devs I want you to rig my matches
>protect me from scary big kid players mommy
you are a moron
unless you are some chink farming wow gold for a living you are still willingly playing the game, you don't need to be protected since you can just cease playing
simple as
and your attempt at retconning old classics is laughable due to a simple fact that gaming became so mainstream that an average zoomie could outplay old fps masters
Cope and complete brainlet. Sbmm didn't exist then.
I had a longer post but it was actually too helpful so I'll just leave you to your ignorance
>i don't want to actually play the game like games were played since the beginning of time
matchmaking hasn't existed since the beginning of time, what are you talking about? you could hop on a server and get your ass handed to you and then hop on another server and hand out ass beatings. the people screaming about sbmm are cod weirdos who are constantly stuck in these 6v6 situations instead of like 12 or 10 or 8 where you have more chances to roll the die on who you play like older shooters.
>matchmaking hasn't existed since the beginning of time, what are you talking about
It absolutely has. We've split people into different levels for everything. It's most obvious in a game like chess, where there's ranked skill levels, but it didn't start with chess.
>chess
Perfect example. People can choose to play ranked with nothing but turbo autists, or they can go to the park and play with some random person that may be better or worse than them. Most people would rather have a fun, casual game than be stuck with sweaty fricking tryhards.
>or they can go to the park and play with some random person that may be better or worse than them
That's not lack of matchmaking moron, the lack of matchmaking would be playing casual online in which I guarantee you will get far more destroyed than in ranked
SBMM is garbage in team games, but in 1v1 games its pretty good to get good games, if you seethe at SBMM in 1v1 you are likely beyond garbage at the game
Something even worse than SBMM is constant live patches that change the meta and rule games every single time, that's actually far worse in 1v1 games and usually team games don't give a shit about that, because team games are party games to have fun and nothing else
Then go b***h at the person I replied to for bringing up chess Black person.
casuals in ONLINE chess are harder than ranked
> It's solution to you being good is making you fight players way higher than you and giving you the most awful squad mates to handicap your kdr.
you can play with premades with similar level skilled players and avoid all that crap.
This is Overwatch
Honestly, can you think of any game that left such godawful legacy in recent memory? Cancerwatch is responsible of:
>Pushing SBMM as the "standard" of future multiplayer games; to the point it even retroactively tainted other games like TF2.
>The whole "surprise mechanics" fiasco that are super common in mobile economies got translated to the rest of the industry AND made popular by cancerwatch
>Pretty much THE moment Blizzard did its transition from OG to the Shitzzard-Activision we know today.
>Any time a new "E-sports" oriented game is released and gets shills all over the internet, you can pretty much traceback their astroturfing tactics to this "game".
>Normalized the casualization of FPS, and with it, lowering the skill ceiling and depth of gameplay in general.
If there was any game that deserved to be erased forever, I'll vote for OW.
you're fricking moronic
people have been implementing matchmaking and rating systems in games that used only dedicated servers back in the day, everyone who ever tried for actual competition wanted matchmaking and rating
the only people who dislike rated matchmaking are casuals who want to punch down on noobs
most community run rating & matchmaking systems would PUNISH you for playing against significantly lower skilled players because no one has ever thought that is a good idea
and fricking overwatch wasn't the start of it you fricking zoomer
Is this seriously what you got from reading my post? I didn't wirte it was the first nor that I disliked it, the problem is that everyone got this dumb idea of normalizing it (being the "standard") from it, especially when innapropiate for the game.
Can't tell if ESL or the same buttblasted homosexual that has repeated the same ad nauseum shitpost the whole thread.
What I got from your post was that you thought overwatch was the start of matchmaking for fps games instead of a server based structure
and you thought because of this shift others went back to change their server based games to be matchmaking based
and that because of these changes, every game going forward has been matchmaking based instead
which is fricking moronic, you're fricking moronic
overwatch was not the start of it
and server based games ALWAYS wanted matchmaking you fricking ape.
I did not misunderstand your post, you misunderstood history and the facts of what happened you absolute mongoloid.
Any game that gets destroyed by matchmaking is a bad game to take seriously anyway, FPS games are fine without matchmaking because they are party games made for fun and nothing else
Serious games with depth have always used some sort of rating or matchmaking because of the massive skill gap you can find between players, even classical games like Go had rating systems back in the 200 AD.
The real issue is that party FPS games or mobas like overwatch tried to market themselves as "serious" games so they had to add matchmaking and prize pools to seem serious, and then other companies went to do the same. Matchmaking also makes people psychologically think a game must be taken seriously because they don't know better and have no point of comparison between games that need actual skill and party games
go play some singleplayer RPG for braindead homosexuals if you care about muh progression and muh experience so much
i'll gladly then play my fairly matched games with one less insufferable moron on my team
Again, if SBMM is putting good players in your team. You're the bot.
>"nuh uh, it's people who want to play against players of their own skill are just bad!!"
>eomm
>"muh kd!!"
>artificial losses
lol you are like the caricatured depiction of a typical person who criticizes sbmm. like you're just barely better than average and you immediately get butthurt when you no longer get to farm wageslaving normies and literal kids. it's ridiculous to insinuate that shitters want sbmm when people who are below average at video games don't have the mental capacity to even understand what sbmm is most of the time. if you are actually good at games and you care about getting even better, then you generally want sbmm in order to keep matches challenging. when i play new games without sbmm, i usually figure out how to stomp lobbies very quickly and after that it gets boring and i end up wanting to play ranked instead.
obviously, my interests do not align with most people who are against sbmm, because it seems most people who want to play without it are only looking to stomp shitters and feel good about themselves. this is usually displayed when they shit like "i just want to play casually!!" which is code for "i want to put in the bare minimum of effort and still win". if you can't handle sbmm then you just have a weak mental game and can't handle adversity.
all the bullshit about matchmaking rigging matches in one way or another is literal schizo babble so i'm not going to even address that beyond saying that it's a mathematical formula that is used to approximate a fair match, and the reason it is inconsistent is because people are inconsistent. it's not a planned conspiracy that is used to "manufacture" losses because they couldn't do that at will even if they tried.
Again, if you think SBMM is beneficial you are a below average player. Nothing wrong with that.
But don't pretend to know or talk down people who play better. The higher tier you get the more you will agree with me. If you don't then that already says it all
name a game and i'll probably have a higher rank than you in it. no wait i forgot you don't play games with ranked modes
low skill cope
>It's solution to you being good is making you fight players way higher than you and giving you the most awful squad mates
If you are really good then play a 1v1 game and stop b***hing, you actually accept the game rules once you launch the game
Imagine playing games for other purpose than fulfilling my sadistic tendencies
See exactly what i was talking about, shitter incels cry about muh mm and team dragging them down when they are the weak link every time. Because it's much easier to cry and blame evil matchmaking than git fricking good and be able to carry. No nobody is out to get you specifically take your meds.
I think the issue its the difference between a "good game" between genres.
In a fighting a good game between people is a very close match that is down to the wire. In that case SBMM allows that to be possible in basically level of competition as long there are enough people to fill those slots
In a shooter a good game is when you're so far above the other team you singlehandedly stomp them. For this kind of power high you need to have people of different skill levels on the same match
the only indicator you need that video games use bullshit rating systems is that whenever a "pro" decides to not play on their main account which was preseeded during early access they get fricking hung up dealing with shitter teammates in high mid tier rankings. literally every time.
sbmm ruins your perception of progress + it has all the disadvantages of mm. as for high skill complaints, you'll realize what they're talking about when you get there.
>perception
But it doesn't ruin your actual progress. You're still getting better.
Depends on the game. For DBD, for example, the issue with SBMM is that it's an imbalanced as frick party game. The game unironically becomes more unfun the higher your MMR becomes because it's a race to whoever can be the sweatiest so the meta clamps down so fricking hard every match as the same survivors/killers/perks and even the same few maps because both sides are trying to outsweat each other. Bringing in something off meta is bad because it's SO far below in power level to meta stuff that you're going to get utterly shit on.
if sbmm wasn't hidden and was instead completely visible in the form of ranks like halo 3 and csgo have, no one would care, but since you don't get a rank to brag about sbmm just punishes good players without rewarding them, whereas halo 3 and csgo are somewhat of a basterized version of the carrot and a stick situation where if you do well you get the stick( put into higher skill lever) you also get the carrot (higher rank = dopamine hit) COD Modern warfare just has the stick and your ranks are hidden meaning you don't get the dopamine hit to offset you being placed with better players as a result of your better performance
>I usually see highly skilled players/streamers complain about it
I think it's more that the games they're playing suck dick at a high level because they're not designed for those players. They're casual games that fall apart and become infuriating when you force the top 5% to play with each other. No top player complains about SBMM in a game like CS. It also doesn't help that those casual games often apply it without telling you so you can't determine the actual skill level of a match or how you're progressing. As you get better in CS, the game tells you that you are, effectively warns you that you'll likely be running into tougher opponents, and gives you a reference for your skill level so that you can not only tell you're in like the top 10% of players but also so that you have personal goals you can shoot for ingame. As you get better in CoD, your matches just quietly get harder to compensate.
I think casual, unranked modes should also have far less strict SBMM by design or at least for groups. Just so that friends can play together without one of them getting consistently blown the frick out if their friend is way better. If I buy a casual shooter where a key selling point is playing with your friends then I should be able to play with them without making their matches way harder.
>casual, unranked modes should also have far less strict SBMM by design
Yeah so autists can have a field day whenever completely uninhibited making people drop the game
>If I buy a casual shooter where a key selling point is playing with your friends then I should be able to play with them without making their matches way harder.
So you making matches for entire enemy team harder is normal but your shitter friends must be pampered? Nice double standards bro
>Yeah so autists can have a field day whenever completely uninhibited making people drop the game
I didn't say there should be none or even that it shouldn't attempt to make matches roughly equal just that it shouldn't be as strict as a ranked mode. Even then, it's also pretty rare to run into players that just dunk on everybody else to that extent even in games that don't have SBMM at all like any game with dedicated servers.
>So you making matches for entire enemy team harder is normal but your shitter friends must be pampered?
I think people having one tougher than usual game is better than people getting consistently dicked on. It's also a big part of how games get big in the first place. People who are already experienced get their friends to play with them and ease them in until they enjoy the game even on their own. How are they supposed to do that if their friends are immediately and exclusively put against good players? That's a big part of why fighting games aren't popular, in my opinion, because a good player cannot play with his friends without completely shitting on them.
Again though, that's not to say that there should be no SBMM or even that a new player shouldn't be fighting stronger opponents than they would solo, just that it shouldn't be as strict as a ranked mode. For instance, IIRC, CSGO's ranked literally doesn't even try to account for the weaker player's skill and just raises it up if there's a big enough gap (on top of requiring a full team). That's perfectly fine for a ranked mode in a competitive game but I think it's too much for a casual one.
It doesn't work.
You can't rank pubbies, especially if you're going to allow f2p accounts to be made on a whim.
Forcing a 50% winrate means only works in pure skill based games, not teamwork based games, for example if you queue into a match of halo or starcraft, if you're good, you're playing against other good players and can get shit done based on your own skill
But if you play a game like DOTA forced 50% winrate means that if you're good, your teammates are going to be dogshit who feed into an enemy team of mediocre players, which means that no matter what position you play, you're fricked, because their carry is going to get fed faster than you, or you can't set up ganks because your team is braindead morons
As well the broader your 'skill' ranking is, the more segregated your community becomes, which leads to 15+ minute queue times waiting for a fricking pub game.
SBMM only works if there is an actual competitive ladder and not ranked pubbies, and works better if the ladder is privately run by an esports org rather who can tweak how the rankings work to be more fair for their community, rather than a blanket system that just makes everything feels like shit
if anything sbmm works too well in dota 2 because the shitters remain at dogshit rank forever, which is why they buy immortal accounts and come into my games and really frick them up. they're so bad and clueless that they don't even understand how obvious it is to everyone else that they have bought their account. they'll let something slip like "no one calls miss?" when virtually no one calls miss at immortal rank, and it's only a thing in low rank where people are too stupid to look at their map and too dunning kruger to own up to their inability to do so. anyway eventually these people fall down to their original rank and soon buy a new account, never having learned a thing
SBMM only exists to enable smurfs and give people a false sense of skill and acomplishment for what is effectively pubstomping.
Notice the soloque challengers in league don't play in competitive and sometimes get their own stage that is more or less a joke to the actual competitive scene.
the only people who call it "sbmm" are butthurt call of duty players
literally every other single person just calls it matchmaking, because thats how all matchmaking works, its not matchmaking if you're putting random people in lobbies, and people specifically blasted that kind of shit happening.
literally 100% of the people complaining or bringing it up are butthurt cod players who play on consoles and want to sweat it up 24/7 while punching down on casual &/or new players
no one else who plays other types of games has ever thought anything of it but just being the normal thing to do
hate Chika and Mikodog
What I remember from playing SC2 is that there are random matches and ranked ladder.
(I played for a while, but it was too stressful. I.E. building probes does not provide fun, but still contributes to RSI.)