What's your headcanon for the two missing primarchs and their respective founding chapters? Bonus points if you arsed yourself into stating your kitbashed boys.
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What's your headcanon for the two missing primarchs and their respective founding chapters?
OH FRICK I TOOK THE ELDARPEROR PIC OH SHIT IM SO SORRY
Rangdan mutated them.
Based on the fact that Sanguinius refers to one of the missing legions when he worries about the flaw of the Blood Angels, one of them was presumably even more blatantly flawed. At least to the degree it could not be hidden nor fixed.
The other one I think makes more sense as delving into xenotech or other close alien alliances. Something that's clearly against Imperial doctrine, but wouldn't be connected to Chaos, allowing it to be prior and disconnected from the main events of the Horus Heresy. That'd still need to be pretty severe though, likely moreso than just some temporary ceasefire or the use of some fancy guns.
>The other one I think makes more sense as delving into xenotech or other close alien alliances. Something that's clearly against Imperial doctrine, but wouldn't be connected to Chaos, allowing it to be prior and disconnected from the main events of the Horus Heresy. That'd still need to be pretty severe though, likely moreso than just some temporary ceasefire or the use of some fancy guns.
>One Primarch that proved the Emperor's galactic genocides were unnecessary or maybe even counter-productive
>. They correctly guessed that the other Primarchs would betray him and wipe each other out, so they warp-jumped 10k years into the future planning to take control of the Imperium from the ruins. Only Legion that don't hate aliens and actively want to work with xenos.
>This is 100% headcanon but I think it's pretty neat
She also had a bad habit of Exploding Planets...
There's the quote that until the siege of terra even the horus heresy was not as bad (in terms of threat? Or sin?) to the great crusade and the emperor's vision of humanity than what one of the primarchs did. Which to me screams "Made Space Marines able to reproduce already gene-modded Space Marines", or "Hybridized Space Marines and Xenos" or was a hybridization of Xenos and Human itself (The primarch that is).
>Space marines able to reproduce = you've created homosexual Sapien 2.0 and there will not be any room for regular humans, which had always been the Emperor's primary focus. You also likely would inspire other space marines to go "Hey wait, why can't we do that too?"
>Space Marines hybridized with Xenos = Return of the gene horrors and divergent Humanity of the Long Night
>Hybridized Primarch = would tie into the above. And possibly both being able to reproduce. And possibly female.
That said, has a good take that's a lot cleaner and simpler with some kind of xenos heresy, be it just ideological or literally biologically.
The final caveat is that the legionaries of the missing primarchs were able to be folded into Ultras and Fists without issue. Unless that was a percent and not a guarantee, or that maybe only one missing legion got folded into them, it'd limit how bad the flaw is.
>was a hybridization of Xenos and Human itself (The primarch that is).
They fell to chaos.
no, if they had fallen to Chaos then the Emperor would've done literally anything to prevent that happening a third time.
This feels the most appropriate. One Primarch so incredibly fricked up that he wasn't even useful as a weapon like Angron. One Primarch that proved the Emperor's galactic genocides were unnecessary or maybe even counter-productive
Both "failures" that had to be erased from memory but neither of them something that would have made the others prepared for Horus' betrayal
it's more likely that they died during the Rangdan Xenocides, while one died fighting them, along with most of his legion and the second being corrupted by them, where Big E sent Russ and Horus to kill him, and purge the legion.
I think this, because if they BOTH had betrayed the Emperor or fell to chaos I don't think "Subject XI" would have their tomb on Terra. And the surviving members of their lost legions added to the Ultramarines and Iron Fists. There is another blurb of lore where Dorn finds his tomb in palace.
>One Primarch so incredibly fricked up that he wasn't even useful as a weapon like Angron
Yeah, something with the geneseed that ended up literally defective. Which given Space Wolves and Blood Angels, and especially given the flesh change of the Thousand Sons, would need to be extremely blatant and detrimental.
>One Primarch that proved the Emperor's galactic genocides were unnecessary or maybe even counter-productive
I do think that would need to go further as well, at least for there to be no mention or caution during contact with the Interex. Simply making peace with Xenos is probably less than what was actually done there. Like I would assume 'selling off human civilians to alien slavers in exchange for advanced xenotech' levels of missing the point.
The thing there is that if a legion was wiped out in the fighting, it doesn't make much sense to purge them from the record. Or for Sanguinuis to be worried about mentioning the Red Thirst to the Emperor for fear of getting his legion purged.
If the only legion record purges were for betrayal and failure, then there wouldn't be the specificity there.
Outright joining the Rangda makes a bit more sense as a reason for a purge.
Chaos corruption doesn't make as much sense, since in that context the Emperor would certainly be more vigilant of it in any of his other sons.
They and their legions are female, it's how GW will bring female space marines into the game when they finally bend the knee.
This, both female
One (11th Legion) were created as psychic blanks, to help them resist chaos. Unfortunately they sided with Malal and became warp-corrupted anyway, and tried to use DAoT tech to turn everyone else into blanks i.e. old-school Necron Pariahs.
The other (2nd Legion) betrayed the Emperor but didn't fall to Chaos. They correctly guessed that the other Primarchs would betray him and wipe each other out, so they warp-jumped 10k years into the future planning to take control of the Imperium from the ruins. Only Legion that don't hate aliens and actively want to work with xenos.
This is 100% headcanon but I think it's pretty neat
kek. that will never happen.
I'm glad I only have to interact with you over a screen. lmao.
Primarch Meztli Elsayyid of the Conquerors/Legion XI
I want a meso-american-hispano-andalusian primarch and his loyal standard bearer Pancho Sanza
It's canon that the Second's obsession was fricking around with Necron shit.
It is also known that the 11th was "innocent" but "would never achieve glory". So most likely he was damaged somehow at the start. Possibly by the 2nd.
>It's canon that the Second's obsession was fricking around with Necron shit.
Sauce? And maybe some quotes?
Clonelord, he used to take his Legion on excursions to the Ymga Monolith.
>It's canon that the Second's obsession was fricking around with Necron shit.
>doubt
But, that would be a really good angle to take. Having to put your kid down so he doesn't accidentally wake up the unknowable death robot empire seems reasonable for a backstory.
>‘The records call it the Ymga Monolith,’ Alkenex murmured, studying the celestial edifice. The immense obelisk seemed to draw in the light of the surrounding stars, as if it were not simply a structure but instead a hole in space and time.
>‘Though as to why, I cannot say. It is a name with no story.’ It had existed since before man took to the stars, and would likely exist long after. Alkenex half-suspected that it was debris from some cosmic conflict far beyond the reckoning of humanity, or even the gods themselves.
>The universe was older than they thought, and wilder by far. He himself had led expeditions into the crumbling remnants of xenos empires that had risen and fallen in time out of mind, and seen pictograms carved into the inner hollows of comets that depicted things beyond the conception of any human mind.
>Time and space were part of the same incalculable ocean, swelling and receding, leaving flotsam and jetsam in their eternal wake. And it was that ocean that the Phoenix would burn away, when he had at last awoken from his slumber. Reduce it to steam and shadows, so that something new and better might rise in its place.
>‘It looks… strange,’ Palos grunted. ‘Like it is there, but not. A mirage of starlight.’
>‘It is real enough. But something about it baffles the ship’s sensors.’ Alkenex leaned forward, over the rail. ‘Fulgrim made mention of it, once. Apparently one of the two Forgotten Ones was said to have led an expedition to its black heart, in the early centuries of the Great Crusade. Though why he was out this far, and what he might’ve found, was never recorded.’
Huh.
Have sex with mortarion OP
I think that one of them just refused to be a general anymore. Think about how disastrous it would be if a Primarch came out and started saying the Great Crusade was bad for any variety of reasons. Maybe he thought we should try and get along with xenos, or that the way the Imperium were butchering their fellow humans left and right and committing atrocity after atrocity was evil/wasteful. Regardless, it would have to be something the other Primarchs wouldn't agree with, but also wouldn't vilify them for.
I think this makes a ton of sense, especially considering the goals the emperor had for his imperium
Stat them? Shit homieh I wrote them a whole Dex.
>Primarch Mereo of the Dawn Paragons, the Starheart, Beloved by All, Lord of the Second.
>Brian Blessed/Lord Flashheart as a primarch.
>Not a great strategist but smart enough to know it, relies on thoroughly trained sub-commanders.
>Strategic tendencies of the IInd: Mass combined arms attacks, specialised companies always part of larger forces, high cooperation with auxiliary forces, willingness to transgress against imperial strictures re: xenos and heretek in service of the cause of mankind.
>Pre-primarch were utilised as reinforcements/cannon fodder for other legions, often split up into small detachments and suffering high casualties, hence their refusal to deploy at small scale now.
>Taken off the board by suprise attack during mustering for the Rangdan xenocides, 90% of legion + Space Dad get stuck in a time crystal surrounding their Homeworld, EMoney can't fix it so he leaves the rest on guard duty
>Sit tight at start of heresy as only EMoney can technically tell them to come out and play, but get shattered legion randos turning up telling them Horus is a big dumb jerk
>Word Bearers task force turns up with usual join us or die line, Paragons have pre-existing dislike for the Wobbles so tell them to frick off, then their tame Mechanicum reveal what they've been building is actually a mechanism for turning the sun of their system into a giant volkite weapon and CHOOM the word bearers fleet.
>IInd decide that Daddy would be a LOYALIST and set off to frick traitors up for fun and profit.
The 40k universe is made from the dreams of the Dragon Ogres as implied in 2nd edition WFRP, but through weird warp shenanigans it is also somehow real. Sigmar is one of the lost Primarchs and after his ascension to Emperor went and found some warpgate that took him to his home universe of 40k. At first he assumed he'd just gone from some planet somewhere in the 40k galaxy, but soon realised the truth of it all, which would obviously crush the morale of the Imperium if it ever got out. As such the Emperor ordered records of him completely expunged, and Sigmar returned to the Fantasy world, but all the warp shit he'd been exposed to as well as travelling to some weird dream world meant he ended up ascending to godhood.
As for the other one it was actually a woman or liked xenos or some shit idk.
>Sigmar returned to the Fantasy world
Yeah, he never did. His ghost possessed Karl Franz. As in, he was dead for real.
Mericus Washington who fricked off to another galaxy to found his own better Empire with even more guns and more eagles on everything.
Adolphus Hitlarian who uncovered Malcador's ~~*Druidic*~~ plot to control the Empire from behind the scenes and had to be taken out.
Garish American aesthetics could actually make for a pretty cool chapter scheme.
I think Carmi made some American revolution styled marines awhile back.
Can't post it though. On my phone.
The Emperor simply didn't find them and made up a story to scare the other Primarchs. The Legions assigned to them just got discreetly folded into others as he realized they weren't going to show up ever.
>Father, why do those numbers have no legion?
>These were your brothers who... uh... did something bad.
>What did they do?
>Something REALLY BAD. Really. Really bad. Because they didn't listen to me.
>Oh.
>You aren't like them, are you, son? You'll listen to your father. Who is always right and totally didn't lose his kids in a distant ocean planet.
>Big E gaslit Russ into thinking he executed the other primarchs despite having no memory of it.
Completely in-character of the Emperor imho
I believe one of the 2 died/was killed/was executed related to the Rangdan xenocides due to/related to the psyker abilities of that foul xenos, the other was explicitly purged due to blatant geneseed mutation in the extreme, worse than the blood angels up there with the 1k sons flesh change but not spontaneous (a baked in flaw for the lost primarch and his legion) and not possible to hide
At least one betrayed the IoM for xenos. Its the only thing that makes sense for why traitors (chaos) are remembered but traitor(xenos) is unspeakable.
>11th Primarch
>Rainbow Warriors
>warped onto a Maiden World
>Adopted by a tribe of exodites, learned how to harness his powers, gets along quite well with the World Spirit
>Helps his family fight off Ork and Dark Eldar raiders
>Found by a Crusade force
>Tells them to frick off
>Hilarity ensues.
>2nd Primarch
>Actually does just fine until the Rangadan Xenocides
>Gets oviposited by an enslaver
>hilarity ensues
They ACTUALLY banged Eldar gf's, or otherwise shamed humanity itself. Falling to Chaos is one thing, but falling to Xenos isn't something you can explain away.
Never existed. Stop believing propaganda.
Yes, the Emperor is perfect and in his wisdom he knew that having both 2 and 11 would be confusing since 11 looks like 2 in Roman Numerals. He simply skipped those numbers as to be more efficient, it's like how Microsoft skipped Windows 9.
The Second has been described as humorless, but obsessed with Necron shit so he probably made planetfall on a Robot planet. It was probably more like Bicentennial Man or even Futurama in which the Second was the straight man to a Bender growing up which gave the Primarch an interest in robotics. Likely sought out Big-E out of his own volition. Kind of like a really tall Hank Hill. He's not necessarily the Messiah, but he sells Robots and Robot accessories.
The Eleventh was a mutant but... Something tells me he made planetfall in a UFEP, or even something akin to Citadel Space in Mass Effect. There he was raised without prejudice and lived a normal and happy life which, when coupled with the better educated and more mentally capable people around him, made him humble and avoided the Messiah complex his brothers had. Joined Big-E to keep his people safe. He seemed to be a friend to Horus.
Ultimately, the Second went rogue due to Necron shit, and the Eleventh... Didn't mutate out of control. He turned against the Emperor due to Big-E deciding that the Federation had to go. Even telling the Emperor why the 'truth' was a bunch of bullshit which is why he's considered the greater danger of the two. The Second likely joined him, leading to a big ass war the Emperor scrubbed from history. Horus was never happy with the result and deep down, resented the Emperor for what had happened.
that would have been interesting if a primarch was taken in by Aliens that maybe even started hero worshipping him.
Then the Emp comes along and genocides the whole planet and *saves* the Primarch but the Primarch is now traumatised by the entire thing and goes traitor.
Fulgrim also considered the 2nd to be a hypocrite, in relation to the 2nd disparaging his plan to take a planet with 6 Astartes. So the 2nd seems to have favoured using bare minimal troops to achieve an objective, at least.
11th absolutely got fricked over by something in the Xenocides though.
I'm a fan of the ''threw their lot in with xenos'' theory but considering the emperor and eldrad were buddies and ephreal stern can run around with a harlequin I'm not sure how far they'd have to go, the only reference to them I know off is that after monarchia Lorgar's complaining to Magnus and Magnus hints at Lorgar that he'd best keep quiet lest father do to him what happened to ''the others''
I always believed Fabius's experimentation with xeno + marine hybrids hinted that this was the greatest heresy in the Imperium.
Thats the thing to remember, they had to be REMOVED from the records probably because they were living proof that the emperors vision was flawed, space marines being glorious examples of what humanity's bio-engineering is capable of kinda goes out the window when one legion mutates beyond the point of say BA/SW where it can be explained/contained, and a primarch joining xenos/using their tech messes with the idea that humanity is the greatest civilisation out there with the best technology
I think its more a case of they were so perverse to the Emperor's beliefs.
The marines found xenos and humans cohabitating to be so revolting it made them throw up.
Marines being spliced and grafted with aliens was the worst moral crime imaginable.
Very possible, an interesting one I read as well is that they weren't flawed that way, but just fricked up in a real bad way like
said, they did something so shameful Big E didn't kill them, but actually just sent them somewhere nobody would find them, somewhere on Terra they could work behind the lines with the custodes or far off on some agri/maiden world where they could live in peace without anyone finding out their shame
Well theres the theory they simply went their own way, either establishing their own Empire on the edge of the galaxy or leaving the galaxy entirely.
That'd be an interest angle, one of the Primarchs quirks was exploring. He commandeered a small chunk of the Imperium and left for another galaxy
I mean MFD basically stuffs one of the failed primarchs in a banana suit and tells him to STFU.
It is unlikely that either threw their lot in with xenos. They are said to have "failed" rather than turned traitor to the Imperium or siding with xenos (which is also known as "turning traitor"). And had they survived to the Heresy, then whatever it was would have made Horus' rebellion against the Imperium into mere child's play and destroyed the highest ideals of the Crusade (which was about reconnecting humanity with itself, so if anything they probably sought to disconnect humanity, or throw their humanity away - most likely to machines, pairing well with the Necron ties of the 2nd).
Another theory was they were simply failures and either died in combat in an embarassing way or just stuffed up.
Well, here it goes.
>The Second Primarch was found right after Russ. Rather than being in charge of everything on a world, he was a simple aide to the ruling caste. From there, he was brought back to terra and introduced to Horus and Russ. He got along with Russ very well and Horus as well as you'd expect. Fulgrim would show up, gussy-up to Horus and cut the Second out of his circle. But he had bigger issues than that.
His Legion was small. So small, they failed the first qualifier to be called a Legion. The Second then had to convince Emps to allow them to re-try at a later date. The Emperor agreed, but only one more chance. From there, the Second Legion, with their primarch in tow, were sent into the GC.
The Second's forte was Naval Warfare/Void Warfare. So his 'Legion' would mainly board other ships and try to capture them for us by the Imperium. They always faced a man-power shortage but made up for it by using the non-Astartes Marines on board these vessals. So yeah, Space Privateers.
The Second Legion also knew that they wouldn't be able to compete in the trials with the regular humans. So they began to focus more on small squad tactics. Especially those involving breaching. Their Primarch had a lot of lee-way since he was both needed and yet not "qualified" to do whatever it was that needed to be done. So he had a bit more downtime than his brothers. What drove him down the drain was the visit to the Ygma monolith. There, he discovered a radical new way to make more marines. Before the Heresy got under-way, he and his legion were killed by their fellow brothers for extreme use of xenotech.
Continued.
The 11th Primarch was found on the world of Quaijinn, where he made a name for himself. But it was not through conquest, but rather peace. When the Emperor found him, he promised him that his diplomatic skills would be most beneficial. Instead, the 11th was thrown into the thickest parts of the GC, usually along side the Imperial Army. There, the 11th would spend most of it's time healing the injured. This changed their attitude to the point that they valued non-augmented human life more than their own. Their friendly disposition was met with skepticim since they were also psykers.
Think of the Thousand Sons, crossed with the Salamanders, and there you go. Space Vietnam/China, complete with melee psykers.
Their downfall came when the call to fight the Ragdan. It turns out the Raghdan had enslaved some abhuman group or had them subervient. REgardless, the 11th tened to have extremely loose interpretations of what a 'human' was. There were many cases in which they would use abhuman recruits. Then they would also use recruits that were only remotely human. Effectively, they allowed mutants into their ranks. Thus nearly ruining their gene-seed. That and the constant complaints from the 11th Primarch on how the Emperor was not some grand liberator but rather another tyrant.
Ok what about this, the Emperor had a back up plan to colonise another galaxy so hand picked his most trusted Primarchs and sent them off.
He then carefully made sure no one knew about this so Chaos or Xenos wouldn't follow
>Emps finds a Primarch, its already heavily mutated
>not unusual among the Primarchs
>however his mutations get worse and he prematurely becomes a Daemon prince
>this is before Chaos is even revealed to the other Primarchs
>Emperor covers it up
They were female. They left of their own violition because they became disgusted with the childish tantrums, autism, pointless squabbling, constant warfare and genocide that their father and his eighteen manchildren were constantly obsessed with. They erected a warp shield 'play pen' around the 40k galaxy to keep the violence contained now rule the rest of the universe peacefully in which everyone gets on with each other.
They were female. They kept trying to have sex with the boys.
The Emperor HATED incest. Worse than heresy.
What is her tax policy, bros?
My head canon is that One primarch was playing with AI and stroggified his entire world and other was like big E, bio engineering super humans to rule over humans
10% income
10% capital gains
10% import tarriff for manufactured goods
10% export tarriff for raw goods and agricultural products
One Primarch raised by AdMech, One Primarch survived alone on a world with no sentient life, becoming a beast master of sorts. The AdMech legion was dedicated to supporting other legions by way of intelligence gathering, the caveman legion was dedicated to supporting the guard. The first legion was wiped from the records because they’ve spent just about every waking moment trying to clear out and purge Mars, only being used off Mars to purge/hack Necron worlds. The caveman legion was wiped because after meeting their Primarch they rejected modernity and returned to monke.
The Emperor tried to make them into Primaris Primarchs but they died.
So he struck them from the records
One was a Xeno lover and tried to implement pacifism or some other leftist thing.
The other was female so useless
We know for a fact that at least one of the legion belonging to one of the two missing primarchs, was baked in to the Ultramarines legion, this is mentioned by the Word Bearers, who is one of the two larges legion (Ultramarines being the second of the two). What happened to the actual primarch is not known, but it is hinted that he is exterminated, and it is also "hinted" that it could have been Russ. This how ever is denied strongly by the very authors of the HH series.
Personally Id like the idea that Russ has already been sent to kill of one of the primarchs of the missing legions, and that the legion itself was just baked in with the blue-berries. That, when found, he was simply to far gone (one of the big plans of Chaos, when spreading the primarchs across the universe) to actually save.
The second of the two missing primarch how ever, that could be a fun thing to do a cool spin on. Maybe he crowned himself emperor of another empire before the great crusade began, and refused Big E´s invitation. We don't know, and maybe that's the great part as well. Leave it a mystery, so we can all just build our own idea about it.
It would be interesting if the second of the two was exterminated because he was TOO like the emperor.
>Primarch II had 20 of his own gene-forged sons powered by xeno archaeotech
Would be to close for comfort for Big E
Imagine if the Emperor went out to find his sons and by the time he got there one of them had already forged an empire of 6 or 7 star systems, but it was pro-technology and had xenos alien members. Like the DaoT in miniature, an actual threat to the Emperor's great crusade because it offered a viable template for human expansion that rivaled the shit the Emperor came up with and said son absolutely refused to bend the knee because he took one look at the Emperor's work and declared it 'sloppy'. Not being morally outraged at the ethics of the Imperium, or awed by its scope and vision, but just... disappointed at how amateur it was. When he first heard of the Imperium he expected it to be better than his empire, not worse.
I could see the Emperor burying all record of that encounter, because there is basically nothing he can say about it that would not seed dissent down the line. An evil or corrupted son he could explain away, one that called him out as a scrub is another matter entirely.
Wasn't Siggy hinted at to be from the missing legions? Dorn's outburst saying he's no son of his, and his general attitude being the opposite of the typical IF. He felt more at home with the WE of all people.
Based on what we know?
My preferred answer is that one of them was simply so biologically messed up that they had to be mercykilled after they were found. Mutated by their environment through no fault of their own. A tragedy, but more imporatnly twisted in such a way that it exposed a critical flaw int he gene seed of primarchs. The Emperor struck all records of it because he didn't want the primarchs, or the enemies of the imperium, to look too closely and see how flawed they actually were. Because what happened to the 11th primarch could *still happen* to the rest under the right circumstances.
The 2nd was obviously interested in necron shit, but I like to imagine that was something that the Emperor was using them for. The Emperor was sending the 2nd primarch out on missions kept secret even from the other primarchs, investigating and recovering xenos technology. Necron and eldar tech would both be VERY USEFUL to the Emperor in his webway project, and he'd have to keep it secret so that the AdMech wouldn't find out or they would through a hissyfit and maybe even cause a civil war. This also explains the reference to the 2nd using very small teams, when doing a secret mission the fewer in the know the better.
But then something went wrong. Either the 2nd became corrupted by something they found and had to be put down, or the fricked up a mission and the Emperor needed to erase the evidence before the AdMech could find out about it. Either way, Russ was sent in to clean up the mess.
Like a decade ago I was playing a Lost Legion and their background was that they disappeared into the warp on the way to Terra and the Imperium purged their records deciding it was better to pretend they never existed that admitting in the chaos of the Scouring that they lost an track of a entire legion and deal with subsequent morale damage. Essentially playing shell games with their location until people forgot.
They came out of the warp in M38. And when it was ascertained who they were they were forced into a secret founding to bring them in line with Chapter size before adding them as a regular chapter to whatever roster(s) exist.
One thing I never did explore that might have been interesting is what if a new chapter had moved into this massive abandoned fortress monastery full of ancient relics before they got back?
One missing Primarch was flung far backwards in time to Mars where he closed a daemon gate and then a larger daemonic incursion and became Doomguy.
Another Primarch was hurled across dimensions and exposed to such foul warp energies that he mutated into the most horrifying and warped creature known to man: a woman. This Primarch became Samus Aran.