When did you realise she was evil?

Anon, under time travel Occulture is literally bullshit because that's what the game says. If it was true Turo wouldn't even need to make a time machine since the future paradoxes are either alien or military tech, from an ancient civilisation or some other nonsense like that. Only tyranitar is said to be from the future.

I don't understand why imaginationgays make up headcanon for their theory but take Occulture at face value when the game says not to.

>If it was true Turo wouldn't even need to make a time machine since the future paradoxes are either alien or military tech, from an ancient civilisation or some other nonsense like that. Only tyranitar is said to be from the future.
It's not.

>Imagination theory DOESN'T take the Occulture at face value
Reading comprehension anon, I'm not saying the theory does I'm saying that YOU do. Believers of the theory take it at face value as if it's a fact to "debunk" the idea of time travel when it has nothing to do with time travel. They exist purely to act as a red herring but you take it as truth when trying to analyse a different theory.
>the Time Travel stuff in those magazines
You don't even know what's in them, do you.

>Persona
God I need to fix this autocorrect.
I mean I could just tab out of my game but eh.

>so the only way they can actually exist is if they were 'thought' into existence
NTA but if that were the case then a metric frick ton of plotholes arise.
Why is manifestation selective as in every other pokemon came in droves but only two Raidon exist.
If they were manifested how did Heath see them? And if he lied like so many of you claim, why would everything else be true, Terapagos is the most outlandish thing in the Scarlet and violet book so you would think that's fake but we know that's a real pokemon.
If it isn't a time machine how was it created and why did no one notice genetic analysis would have revealed that which brings us to
Why were the Raidon genetically and behaviorally similar to Cyclizar? Neither of those things were describe in Occulture so how is it possible that they were imagined in such detail?
Why would the Loyal Three come back to life if everyone thought they were dead? Not a single Persona had the thought in their head to bring them back.
And if it was the result of some kind of wish why wasn't Kieran's wish to be with Ogerpon and be strong granted?
And where did the AI go if it didn't go back into the past/to the future?
If Terapagos can grant wishes under it's own power what was the point in building anything down in Area Zero? Not just the time machine but the labs too. And why didn't anyone else manifest anything?

That's just off the top of my head. If I were to go deeper then the whole thing would just fall apart. Especially given that there's literally zero hints to it in game.

In the extremely unlikely event that GF does go with wishing then SV will probably go down in pokemon history as one of the worst written games to date.

>If it isn't a time machine how was it created and why did no one notice genetic analysis would have revealed that which brings us to
I'm not sure what you're asking here. We know how the 'Time Machine' was created - Sada/Turo made it with the help of the other professor and Clavell. It didn't actually 'work' until the AI was created, and that's a whole other can of worms.
>Why were the Raidon genetically and behaviorally similar to Cyclizar? Neither of those things were describe in Occulture so how is it possible that they were imagined in such detail?
The Raidon was very clearly Heath's OC based off of his partner Pokemon - a Cyclizar. Whether he made it up entirely or it manifested temporarily in the crater while he was there doesn't change the fact that it was something he thought up and based on his own Pokemon. We can assume the Scarlet and Violet Book had entries on the Raidons just like they supposedly had entries on all the other Paradox 'mons Heath allegedly encountered, we just don't read them in the game (and there's no doubt the Raidon, at least, is mentioned - the thing is right on the cover). If Sada/Turo read the book and noticed the similarity to Cyclizar, then they would have concluded that it SHOULD be genetically similar, and if the 'Time Machine' - and, more specifically, the Tera Crystals it ran on - really do manifest thoughts and desires into physical entities, then this expectation of genetic similarity would have been a part of the manifestation, specifically because it was a professor who was imagining it and looking for these kind of results; I imagine that, if someone like, say, Kieran had a fake Ogerpon thought up and made real, it wouldn't have any genetic signature whatsoever, because the kid isn't a scientist who would be thinking about these things in the kind of detail a professor would.
(cont.)

>If Terapagos can grant wishes under it's own power what was the point in building anything down in Area Zero? Not just the time machine but the labs too. And why didn't anyone else manifest anything?
Considering we haven't met Terapagos yet, we actually have no idea if it can grant wishes under its own power or if everything that's happened has been done subconsciously; hell, we don't even know if Terapagos has any control over what its crystals do once they've been made, so it's possible it has no idea what's been going on outside the crater.
The main lab at the bottom of Area Zero was created specifically by the Professor under the pretense of studying the Terastralization phenomena, though the chamber under it containing the 'Time Machine' was entirely their pet project; now that we know Terapagos in its natural state is small and is capable of shrinking down even smaller (to the size of a pendant), I strongly suspect the professor has imprisoned the thing inside the machine itself as its primary power source.
The other labs were made years prior to the Professor's lab at the bottom - they started off as waystations for past expeditions to the crater, and more were added as people explored further and further into the crater; they were presumably refurbished after the Professor secured the funding to study the crater (again, under the guise of studying the Terastrallization phenomena, hence the creation of the Tera Orb), but the main lab wasn't built until much later.
We don't know why the other members of the Professor's team managed to manifest anything; maybe they all worked in the waystations, and the Professor only relocated to their new lab at the lowest point of the crater after everyone else abandoned them upon realizing they were insane and had other goals; whatever the case, stuff didn't start becoming 'real' until the Professor was by themselves and had built their 'Time Machine'.
(cont.)

>hence why you can't keep a Pokemon Terastrallized forever.
Except you can, the only thing that stops it from being terastalized is damage.

>That's not a thing. It was never mentioned that the machine was complete but non functional.
The machine was apparently in a semi-working state - the Professor brought through exactly one Raidon, but could not initially bring anything else through; their logs state that the machine was only completed after everyone else had abandoned them and the AI had appeared.

>their logs state that the machine was only completed after everyone else had abandoned them and the AI had appeared.
I'm starting to think that imaginationgays haven't actually played the game because this isn't what it says at all.
>My new assistant has intellect and technical skills to rival my own. A bit rigid at times, but I've got no serious complaints. Productivity has doubled. We even brought in a second Koraidon via the machine—though this one has proved aggressive.
It doesn't say anything about the machine being completed, just that production was doubled meaning MORE were pulled through.
It also doesn't mention the AI and the wording doesn't fit for it.

>you mean the same game that said the AI came from those same crystals
It didn't.
All it says is that the crystals made it possible, given the context of the conversation and the fact that the AI was created after the time machine which is powered by the crystals the implication is that someone came from the future.

>you see it all the time though
No, there's no instance in game of reality warping. Pokemon are powered up by terastalization but they aren't changed.
Even Ogerpon's terastal form, the only one in game so far next to Terapagos itself, doesn't actually change Ogerpon, it just makes the mask larger.

>when an herba mystica gets eaten and a pokemon just randomly becomes powered up and giant.
That's not bending reality either, that's a side effect of too much terastal energy, it's due to excessive consumption and the titan pokemon has to continue eating it to maintain their size.

>kitakami villagers looking into crystal lake and talking to literal dead people
We haven't observed this happening in game, it's just a myth, not a fact. It's on the same level of taking Occulture as truth.

>even the miracle of resurrection of the loyal 3 will probably get tied back to tera crystals somehow.
Linking it to the crystals doesn't mean imagination though just an introduction of power.

Anon, you're grasping.

>ai tech knowledge doesn't exist yet
>crystals make it possible
>crystals are a massive source of energy
>the only way to obtain knowledge that doesn't exist yet would be to get it from the future
>time machine is powered by the crystals
How would YOU interpret this information?

you're telling me timetravelgays have to make up extraneous bullshit explanations to support their theory while imaginationchads can easily support their theory using nothing but in-game scenes? no way

>you would still need knowledge of an AI if it functioned like that
no you fricking don't lmao you just imagine what it is you want and it pops into existence
>even if that were the case the professor didn't wish for an AI. They wished for someone else or a copy of themselves, an AI wouldn't fit into that description
it does when the AI is, in fact, an exact copy of themselves

>You can't just insert headcanon or interpret things in a way that contradicts other information
But you're doing literally that by claiming some time traveling individual from the future came through a one-way time machine to give the professor the technology to build an advanced copy of themselves to act as the professor's assistant before disappearing with no explanation while the professor conveniently doesn't record such an important visit in their personal logs. You are literally inventing things to make your theory work because the game itself provides no evidence that such insanity ever happened.

>Headcanon is making something up to explain something you don't understand
such as
> someone or something brought [knowledge to create an AI] to the past
which is said exactly zero (0) times in the game

>Headcanon is making something up to explain something you don't understand
>someone came from future
>Is conveniently never mentioned, encountered, or even hinted to exist at any point, and has no motive to actually do the thing I'm suggesting they did, but they HAVE to exist or my theory doesn't work
Dude, are you aware of how little self-awareness you possess?

>the knowledge AT PRESENT.
You are clinging to that phrase and putting far more meaning into it than what it actually has. All that means is that the AI isn't ruling out the notion that humanity may some day be capable of building something like itself - but not yet. That in no way implies time travel, just that the rigid, logically-thinking AI isn't saying that it's always going to be an impossibility to create it through normal means.

>Yes because it's important. That's how words work, they aren't used for no reason.
This is rich coming from a timetravelcuck who will deny paragraphs of text thrown at them to cling to their precious surface level reading comprehension

Projection is a core element of the imagination theory.

>The entire basis of the time travel theory is taking everything at face value, anon
Then why are only imagination gays taking it at face value?
>the ai said the crystals make it possible so it's made of crystals!
>Arven said it doesn't make sense so it doesn't make sense!
>the time machine doesn't show something going through the time stream so it isn't time travel
>everyone has a wish but none of them are ever granted so I'll just ignore that and say it doesn't literally grant wishes
No matter how you spin it it's you who's taking it at face value filling in the blanks with LMAO MAGIC even though reading between the lines says otherwise.

>Earlier all that mattered was what the game said, now that that's failing them it's all about reading between the lines.
You are aware that this says "all that mattered was what the game says but now that that's failing them it's all about what the game says", right?

Reading between the lines doesn't mean making things up, it's looking for the hidden implication that the text that isn't openly stated. Let's look at the line that's confusing you.
>Humanity does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI at present.
If it was just
>Humanity does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI.
Then you could take it at face value, it's outright saying humans can't make it, ever. Then you'd have some evidence for wishing but because it says "at present" that's saying that humans will eventually create sophisticated AI in the future.
And that's not made up, that's in the game

Except every point here is beat for beat timetravelsperg gospel.
>the ai said the crystals make it possible so it's made of crystals!
"The AI said ot was time travel so it is time travel!"
>Arven said it doesn't make sense so it doesn't make sense!
"Arven said it doesn't make sense so there'll be a time paradox!"
>the time machine doesn't show something going through the time stream so it isn't time travel
"Terapagos is never shown manifesting things from imagination in game so it doesn't happen!"
Like come on, anon. Pot, kettle

That's not even remotely how English works.
>The AI said ot was time travel so it is time travel
We see the time machine and it's a straightforward explanation with no hidden meaning like the line about AI being beyond modern humanity.
>"Arven said it doesn't make sense so there'll be a time paradox!"
This is foreshadowing, it REQUIRES reading between the lines to find the hidden meaning, you've given me another example. In trying to prove me wrong.
>Terapagos is never shown manifesting things from imagination in game so it doesn't happen
Yes, because there's nothing alluding to it. Not outright or hidden. That's why no one can ever actually provide any examples without contradicting something in the game.

English isn't that difficult.

>We see the time machine and it's a straightforward explanation with no hidden meaning
The point of the imagination theory is that there is hidden meaning. That's literally the point. This is why these "arguments" are a waste of time. You don't even know what you're trying and failing to argue against. All you have is "the game wouldn't lie to me to set up a twist!" In a game with multiple storylines that lie to the player to set up a twist.

>like the line about AI being beyond modern humanity.
Your dedication to this one line is astounding. You do this and then try to make fun of imaginationchads for picking up on the multiple lines about dreams and imagination? Really?

>This is foreshadowing
Like literally everything else that's already been pointed out to you that you refuse to hear because it would make you think critically for more than 2 seconds

>That's how it works, that's good writing.
Earlier it was imagination theorists who were dumb for expecting good writing in a Pokemon game. How convenient that you've changed your mind

>If you went to Ganker and asked if they were trying to set up imagination with the story we have now they'd call you an illiterate brainslug.
If you're trying to use any part of Ganker as evidence for what is and isn't good writing, then you've already lost. You're also wrong, for the record. People on Ganker love subtext. They'd eat imagination up

>It's the easiest one to explain to someone with a poor grasp on the English language but you still aren't getting it.
I've pretty clearly proven I get it just fine, I'm just not counting your wild speculation of a time travelling, AI-delivering Santa Claus as evidence

I've explained this as simply as I can but you still don't get it.
You've explained something that other people have already disproven. The game flat out tells you how the AI can function despite the fact that the necessary technology doesn't exist, but you won't listen

>You do this and then try to make fun of imaginationchads for picking up on the multiple lines about dreams and imagination?
Everyone mocks you for that because you only have the one line penny uses when she terastalizes her pokemon but there's no consistency with terastalization lines
>"Come fooorth, shiny li’l lightbulb! I’m not done yet! Iono power, goooooo!"
>"Now, my little Pokémon! Time to break free from your cocoon and come into your own
>Let's do this, Toxapex! It's your time to shine
>"Well, you heard the good folks... I suppose I can put on a bit more of a show."
>"At the risk of messing up my suit a bit...it’s time to get some wind at our backs."
I could list them all but you get the point. Not to mention Penny is referring to her own story where she even hid away from the people she called friends.

>Like literally everything else that's already been pointed out to you that you refuse to hear because it would make you think critically for more than 2 seconds
Not only have you not given a single line foreshadowing imagination but you haven't shown basic literary comprehension let alone critical thinking.
You're just denying what's in front of your eyes and refusing to accepted explanations from people who know more than you.

It's genuinely pathetic because you clearly don't even want to try and discuss anything you just want to b***h and moan because the story uses time travel and clearly don't like it.

>It's genuinely pathetic because you clearly don't even want to try and discuss anything
Coming from someone whose entire purpose in life seems to be to screech at people to stop theorizing and consoom the plot, this is a real winner

Not that anon, but:
>No one mentions granting wishes.
You've completely missed one of the game's two overall themes. What is the Treasure Hunt, anon?
>No one witnesses granting wished.
No one witnesses anyone coming out of the time machine to give the professor the AI technology, either. Nor do they witness where this person disappeared to. They don't even actually witness anything time travelling - just Masterballs popping out of a machine, which we're told is a Time machine but can't actual prove. Then we get the AI going into the machine and vanishing in a flash of light - not proof of time travel, since we don't witness them coming out the other side.
>The imagined pokemon the theory is named after do not exist.
The Paradox Pokemon? Sure they do.
>There are no facts to make a theory.
Same with Time Travel. We don't physically witness any of it happening, so all we can do is take the word of an insane professor, an AI based off of said insane professor, and some clearly fictional Occulture magazines that Time Travel is happening. Everything else points to Paradox Pokemon just...appearing and, apparently, disappearing.

>That's one thing the supporters of time travel never explained i think
No, literally everyone just refers to the function of the time machine that was said in game.
>It sends Poké Balls to a different point on the timeline to catch Pokémon there, and it can then draw them back here to the present.
There's no reason why pokemon can't be sent through to be seen and recalled but of course people can't comprehend that here.

>If this is true, how the hell did Heath see a future pokemon?
The answer is the post
>>It sends Poké Balls to a different point on the timeline to catch Pokémon there, and it can then draw them back here to the present
It doesn't say anything about being set to one time period.
That would be an awful time machine.

Whoever uses it.
It's a mystery that they're clearly leaving for the dlc given were returning to Area Zero presumably with Briar since she specifically put in a request for access.
Who also has a motive in trying to prove that Heath wasn't a fake.

Oh so you are the same loser from yesterday now popping up in an unrelated thread where people are talking about the imagination theory to "um, actually" at them like you're on reddit. Thanks for proving me right

>"Terapagos is never shown manifesting things from imagination in game so it doesn't happen!"
And I want to give this particular recurring point extra attention because it is a special brand of stupid. A central idea of the imagination theory is that it's a twist. That the apparent time travel isn't actually what it appears. Why on Earth would they overtly show the crystals manifesting something from imagination or desire when that is supposed to be a big reveal?

>Occulture
I thought Occulture was bullshit, anon?

Occulture isn't red herring, it wouldn't even make sense as one.
Occulture is the reason why Sada and Turo built their machine.

>and presenting you with paragraphs of evidence that you plug your ears over and deny are two different things
You'd have a point if you didn't try to avoid presenting evidence. That said whenever anyone tries it's always something like
>Arven said it doesn't make sense so it's not time travel
>Heath lied so it's imagination
>penny said be who you want to be and turned it into the same type it was so it's imagination
Or my favorite the one that ignores the game
>the AI is made out of crystals.
None of this falls under the banner of evidence.

What do you actually have? What made you think it's imagination?

Hmm, let's see.

It started with no evidence of the past Paradoxes in the fossil record. That was suspicious. Especially tucked away on the school shelves where only thorough players will find it

Then we had the drawings of the beast/musketeer fusions, specifically described as coming from the artist's imagination and to not be based on any real creatures in Area Zero, only for the Paradox legendaries to be revealed shortly thereafter, directly implying that they were somehow born of those drawings.

Then I started looking at the Paradoxes themselves and thinking about how bizarre they are. Everyone already complained at release about how lame it was that all the future pokemon were just robots. That's not how evolution works after all. The same applies to the past Paradoxes too, though. They're all reptilian and dinosaur-like. They don't look anything like actual prehistoric creatures or any of the fossil mons either. They do look like what someone might imagine something might have looked in the ancient past, though. Same for the future mons if someone really liked the idea of a robot future. Plus none of them can breed, and they all have the same ability, again setting them apart from previous time-displaced Pokemon. Again, that would be deeply strange if they were really from the past/future, but would make sense if they were fabrications.

Then I started looking at the rest of the game and analyzing the themes and what the game was presenting overall. And you know what I found? Time travel and/or the contrast between past and future are utterly irrelevant to the game at large outside of the professors' plotline. None of the rest of the game is about that. What is it about? Walking your own path, chasing your dreams, finding your treasure. "You go beyond my imagination so easily" Geeta says when you defeat her in the champion assessment. An interesting choice of words, I thought.

Cont.

>It started with no evidence of the past Paradoxes in the fossil record
Yeah and everyone brings up the meteor and the fact that Violet exists with a future theme.
You have a lore reason and game mechanic reason. In fact fossils in general aren't found in Paldea at all unless you're trying to say that they didn't exist period.

>Then we had the drawings of the beast/musketeer fusions
Which don't exist.
There's not much else to say there.
Even the datamine showed that there's not enough space for them. In other words they didn't come to life.
That's evidence AGAINST imagination.

>That's not how evolution works after all.
I'm going to stop you right there because while it's based on real world evolution these are still fictional monsters, many of which did evolve more metallic features either through real world evolution or pokemon evolution.
An example of both is Galarian Meowth and Forretress.

>Then I started looking at the rest of the game and analyzing the themes and what the game was presenting overall.
Then you would have seen that the theme of past and future permeates into just about everything
>scarlet and violet font
>the past and future paradoxes
>Sada and Turo's names both in English and Japanese
>Sada and Turo's outfits
>korai and mirai mean ancient and future in Japanese
>the theme of the dlc traditional Japanese, futuristic artificial island
>nemona pushing you to become her future rival
>penny looking back on her past as the leader of team star
>the time machine
Even the motto of the school is
>Taking lessons from tradition—growing stronger and greater
Aka learning from the past to grow into the future.
Imagination and dreams to life doesn't have that kind of baked in theme.
>Walking your own path, chasing your dreams, finding your treasure.
Even this ties into it because it's about the future of the individual.
Oh and Clavell, an old man, trying to learn modern slang

why did it take the professor 10 years to dream up the time machine
why did the professor need to invent the tera orbs when she was using pieces of terapogos to power them
why didn't terapogos make the drawings more accurate when the donphans were almost 1:1

Please explain and stop sidestepping. I've been asking for months.

because no one knows about the true property of the crystals?

again, because they didn't know they could wish for it. So they just desired someone would come and help them finish the project

Do you not understand how moronic you sound, especially since this exact part of the argument has been explained to you pretty much daily for over a year now? The professor has no idea what Terapagos can do; they say they found it, and took some of its scales for their Tera Orb prototype. They had no idea it could take a person's thoughts and make them real, because they weren't there to study Terapagos.
They grew up reading those bogus Occulture magazines and believed them when they claimed the Pokemon Heath saw were from the distant past/future. This, they grew up believing they needed a time machine to see these Pokemon, and dedicated their lives to learning how to build one. THAT is why they didn't 'wish for Paradox Pokemon' - they didn't know that was even an option, and desired to meet them by building a functional Time Machine with their own two hands (which is also why they didn't 'wish for a machine' - their desire was to build it themselves). Wishing for an assistant was totally accidental, and by the time that happened, they were already mentally too far gone to realize the implications of what the hell just happened.

>The professor has no idea what Terapagos can do;
They studied it longer than anyone else and figured out how it worked creating the Tera orb.
>They had no idea it could take a person's thoughts and make them real,
In the 10 years of research they would have discovered that and made note of it somewhere in Area Zero but that doesn't exist.
>They grew up reading those bogus Occulture magazines
They grew up reading the Scarlet/Violet book. We don't even know when Occulture was published but it's unlikely that they read it as a kid.
>they grew up believing they needed a time machine to see these Pokemon
Turo wouldn't have thought he needed a time machine if he read Occulture only one entry was about the future and that was tyranitar.
Bundle is from an ancient civilization
Hands is the million dollar man aka a human with cybernetic enhancements if you're too young for that reference
Treads is an alien machine
Moth is a UFO
Jugulis is a result of hydreigon fricking a washing machine.
Valiant is just a robot.
He would be a tech nut first before pursuing a time machine.
>Wishing for an assistant was totally accidental
The assistant also isn't the AI and the AI also isn't the result of a wish being entirely mechanical.

NTA but play the game
>AI tech doesn't exist yet
>Sada is on their own
The technology can't come from the ether.
And we know they weren't wished up because
1) there have been no observable wishes in game
2) it's a computer and not made of crystal.
3) it would still require knowledge of how to make an AI under the current version of the imagination theory.
And as a bonus according to this anon
>Besides, it's a wish-granting trope that things often go wrong and the wisher doesn't get quite what they wanted
It would have come out wrong but it worked perfectly.

>We haven't seen this before, so it won't happen" is not the stellar argument you think it is
It is, we're too far into the story and too many rules and explanations have been established for it to simply just be wishing with no explanation, hints, clues etc.
If they say its wishing then it's just pulling it out of their ass so to speak.
>These only matter if you assume the AI was created through a wish,
Anon, you do. That's how it came about with the imagination theory.

>The crystals take care of the parts modern tech can't,
The crystals can make anything, they're only a power source.
>hence why it can't leave the Zero Lab
That's because it's the power source.

>So now you're deciding what other people believe
Yeah, otherwise it's not a theory.
A theory isn't an opinion, it's a logical explanation

>It is, we're too far into the story and too many rules and explanations have been established for it to simply just be wishing with no explanation, hints, clues etc.
You've been presented with several hints and clues, anon. You just don't want to believe them so you're pretending they don't exist
>Anon, you do. That's how it came about with the imagination theory.
You're aware that you're talking to at least two people, right? Some of the other people here think the AI was the result of a wish. I don't.
>The crystals can make anything
BOI do you not get how incredibly dissonant that is coming from someone arguing against the imagination theory?

>AI tech doesn't exist yet
That doesn't prove any time travel is involved. You're clinging to a phrase that doesn't necessarily have the definitive meaning you think it does.
>1) there have been no observable wishes in game
Except for Arven wishing his dog would get better while feeding him those Tera-energy infused Herba Mystica. Or Penny pointing out that Terastralization in combat is just the Pokemon assuming the element it wants to be rather than what it actually is. Or the player's balls turning into Master Balls whenever you're in a Tera Den. or the Professor wishing for an assistant that's exactly like them...and then magically having an AI clone of themselves that states they assisted the real Professor.
>3) it would still require knowledge of how to make an AI under the current version of the imagination theory.
Nope. Think 'damn, I want an assistant that was just like me. Oh, shit - what's that popping out of those crystals!? Is that...a clone of me? Nah, that's not possible...it must be an advanced AI copy! Cool!' and poof - you've got your AI companion. Maybe not exactly how it happened, but the fact remains it's a possibility you have no evidence to conclusively refute it with.
>Besides, it's a wish-granting trope that things often go wrong and the wisher doesn't get quite what they wanted
No, the AI DID come out different than planned - it ended up having a sense of morality the Professor did not, and as a result, they terminated the experiment as soon as the Professor died, which was completely against their wishes.
Swing and a miss, buddy. You still haven't proven anything other than the fact that you're a thick-headed moron who refuses to budge even when people have repeatedly pointed out he holes in your theory for well over a year now.

Easy
>why did it take the professor 10 years to dream up the time machine
Because they clearly don't know exactly what Terapagos is capable of, if they know about it at all. They built their machine by hand and it took them 10 years. Where Terapagos comes in is in the creation of the Paradox mons themselves.
>why did the professor need to invent the tera orbs when she was using pieces of terapogos to power them
Because they went down there under the pretense of researching the terastal phenomenon. They couldn't well get funding if they publicly announced their intent was to go down into Area Zero to build a time machine and summon creatures from a discredited crackpot's book and some pulp magazines. They needed something to show for it, so boom, Tera Orbs. The orbs may also have been a bit of a prototype, a means to see if they could harness Terapagos' power to achieve a desired effect. None of that actually has to do with either paradox theory, I'm pretty sure that's just the text.
>why didn't terapogos make the drawings more accurate when the donphans were almost 1:1
Presumably because the drawings of the Donphans were based on the actual mons, rather than the reverse with the legends.

>Stop guessing, I want actual answers
You have them, anon. You just don't like them.

Also,
>Stop guessing
Literally all of this
>Why did all of that time she spent with Terapogos did she not get any wishes granted?
>Heath's expedition did and never asked for anything.
>Why did she wish for a clone of herself instead of just wishing for the machine to be completed?
Is guesswork on your part. Bad guesswork at that. The professor clearly didn't know the extent of Terapagos' power and there's no actual evidence they ever encountered it. They only talk about the crystals. The big turtle itself, if it got involved at all, would have only turned up when they reached the bottom of Area Zero and started building the lab and time machine. And who says Heath's expedition didn't imagine anything into existence? The original Paradoxes had to come from somewhere. And the professor wanted an assistant, someone to help them build the machine, again because they didn't know reality-bending was even in play. Besides, they built their assistant using the crystals, no wishing involved.

You want a guess? Here's a guess. Even if the professor did know Terapagos could bring imagination to life, they still couldn't have used it to make the time machine. All we suspect Terapagos of being capable of is creating living things like the Paradoxes. A working time machine may be beyond its scope

>And people have also already brought up that it doesn't say anything about Paldea specifically
What are you talking about? Area Zero is the impact crater.
You can't say that it doesn't exist when there's a massive hole in the middle of the region.

>This is especially bad since with all the "ENGLISH ENGLISH ENGLISH" you keep on doing
I didn't know using English would ruffle your feathers like that but you have to deal, I don't know any other languages.
>we're saying the Paradox legendaries came from those drawings.
You can visibly see that they didn't they have features that don't exist on the combination forms and even the ones that do like Suicune's crest is completely different.
If it was imagined there would just be the two pokemon combined pokemon, not two sets of three with different traits. Also if you read the imagined pokemon page he says he was inspired by the pokemon down there. Originally everyone thought he had seen the original beasts/swords and combined them into a predecessor but knowing that the beasts/swords were separate paradoxes we can say that he saw the paradoxes and combined those.

>Just like the professor dreamt of a time machine and got a Paradox Maker instead
That's an entirely different idea and it also would mean their wish isn't being granted since they don't have a time machine.

>Please stop yourself while you're at it, this can't be healthy for you
Anon, come on, if you can't discuss this like a grown adult why are you even here?

>I said there's no record of the past paradoxes anywhere in the Pokemon world, not just not in Paldea
Anon paradox mon as a concept didn't exist before SV, that's the real world reason.
The lore reason could be anything like different regions could have different species or evolutionary paths like how Archen is the ancestor of all bird pokemon.
We won't know that unless they explore it and frankly, it's irrelevant so I doubt they will.

>Says who?
Says the theory? If he imagined them in a specific way there would be no explanation for sixx different pokemon running about with traits that aren't shown in the drawings. They would just be exactly like the drawings otherwise it isn't bringing their imagination to life.
At the same time if you claim that it's not a perfect one to one replica why were the other paradoxes, specifically the Raidon and Donphan, brought to life exactly as they were depicted on the cover and the picture?

>so he clearly didn't see the actual species that did straight up look like that
You're taking the line at face value anon instead of what the page is, foreshadowing the sets of paradox beasts and swords. The context of the page changes as we get more information and we know that the individual mon exist.
Also occam's razor, the simplest explanation is that he combined them after seeing them.

>The professor wanted a time machine, the turtle couldn't give them one, but it could make their dream of ancient/future Pokemon come to life
Then it simply doesn't bring things into reality from dreams. It makes something else entirely.
>How many more times will this bounce off your lead skull?
You shouldn't assume everyone talking to you is the same person.
It's also kind of sad when you look into it further because this just means you're fighting a one man war here and cope with that fact by pretending the other side is just one person like you.

>back to speculation
Anon, the point was speculation in the first place. Of course your going to get a speculative answer be a use they're never going to go into such a minor detail. There are much bigger plot points that they've never touched in this series.
>Point is that you have to reach and theorize to come up with why there's no evidence of these Pokemon ever having existed outside of the shenanigans of Area Zero.
Not exactly a meteor impact is a pretty valid reason, it's the same in real life, there's nothing around impact sites.

>Not according to the theory I've been running with.
Which would mean you're just making it up as you go rather than trying to explain something that's in the game.
>The drawings of the Donphan's didn't end up being 1:1,
Not only are the pictures more accurate than the combination legends, obviously I said the picture, not the sketch.
You need to read what people say before you reply.

>Except that would contradict the text
It doesn't. You even said it yourself
>if you read the actual text, it says he was inspired specifically by the size and ferocity of the other Paradoxes, not any specific ones
It doesn't specify any paradoxes so a contradiction can't exist with that idea.

>I've been consistent this whole time
You attempted to add something new to the theory in your last post.
Specifically
>it's a wish-granting trope that things often go wrong and the wisher doesn't get quite what they wanted
That's not consistency, that's making it up as you go.
>Then don't say picture when you mean photo.
I didn't.

>I said there's no record of the past paradoxes anywhere in the Pokemon world, not just not in Paldea
Anon paradox mon as a concept didn't exist before SV, that's the real world reason.
The lore reason could be anything like different regions could have different species or evolutionary paths like how Archen is the ancestor of all bird pokemon.
We won't know that unless they explore it and frankly, it's irrelevant so I doubt they will.

>Says who?
Says the theory? If he imagined them in a specific way there would be no explanation for sixx different pokemon running about with traits that aren't shown in the drawings. They would just be exactly like the drawings otherwise it isn't bringing their imagination to life.
At the same time if you claim that it's not a perfect one to one replica why were the other paradoxes, specifically the Raidon and Donphan, brought to life exactly as they were depicted on the cover and the picture?

>so he clearly didn't see the actual species that did straight up look like that
You're taking the line at face value anon instead of what the page is, foreshadowing the sets of paradox beasts and swords. The context of the page changes as we get more information and we know that the individual mon exist.
Also occam's razor, the simplest explanation is that he combined them after seeing them.

>The professor wanted a time machine, the turtle couldn't give them one, but it could make their dream of ancient/future Pokemon come to life
Then it simply doesn't bring things into reality from dreams. It makes something else entirely.
>How many more times will this bounce off your lead skull?
You shouldn't assume everyone talking to you is the same person.
It's also kind of sad when you look into it further because this just means you're fighting a one man war here and cope with that fact by pretending the other side is just one person like you.

>At the same time if you claim that it's not a perfect one to one replica why were the other paradoxes, specifically the Raidon and Donphan, brought to life exactly as they were depicted on the cover and the PICTURE?
Granted I did slip on the previous post but that obviously came after so the mistake is still on your head.

>It specifies that he didn't base them on any specific paradoxes though, that's the whole point.
Except it doesn't.
It says
>A drawing of a fantastical Pokémon as envisioned by our sketch artist. The size and ferocity of the strange Pokémon that dwell in Area Zero's lower reaches tickled the artist's imagination, prompting this sketch of what other species that inhabit these depths might look like."
That says he was inspired by paradoxes, we don't know which one but we know they were paradoxes.

You're reading that as
>no one species of pokemon that dwell in Area Zero's lower reaches tickled the artist's imagination, he simply made this sketch of what other species that inhabit these depths might look like."
I can only assume English isn't your first language becauee the original is pretty open for interpretation.

>You mean that elaboration on an idea I've been saying this whole time
It's not elaboration becuase you're bringing it up out of nowhere for no real reason with no evidence behind it.

>because you missed something I have changed my mind on. Terapagos may only be able to make living things.
Which means it can't make the AI and the question of its existence comes into play when it said that it can't exist in the modern day.
See what I mean.

>The word photo doesn't appear once in that post.

>I said there's no record of the past paradoxes anywhere in the Pokemon world, not just not in Paldea
Anon paradox mon as a concept didn't exist before SV, that's the real world reason.
The lore reason could be anything like different regions could have different species or evolutionary paths like how Archen is the ancestor of all bird pokemon.
We won't know that unless they explore it and frankly, it's irrelevant so I doubt they will.

>Says who?
Says the theory? If he imagined them in a specific way there would be no explanation for sixx different pokemon running about with traits that aren't shown in the drawings. They would just be exactly like the drawings otherwise it isn't bringing their imagination to life.
At the same time if you claim that it's not a perfect one to one replica why were the other paradoxes, specifically the Raidon and Donphan, brought to life exactly as they were depicted on the cover and the picture?

>so he clearly didn't see the actual species that did straight up look like that
You're taking the line at face value anon instead of what the page is, foreshadowing the sets of paradox beasts and swords. The context of the page changes as we get more information and we know that the individual mon exist.
Also occam's razor, the simplest explanation is that he combined them after seeing them.

>The professor wanted a time machine, the turtle couldn't give them one, but it could make their dream of ancient/future Pokemon come to life
Then it simply doesn't bring things into reality from dreams. It makes something else entirely.
>How many more times will this bounce off your lead skull?
You shouldn't assume everyone talking to you is the same person.
It's also kind of sad when you look into it further because this just means you're fighting a one man war here and cope with that fact by pretending the other side is just one person like you.

#
>At the same time if you claim that it's not a perfect one to one replica why were the other paradoxes, specifically the Raidon and Donphan, brought to life exactly as they were depicted on the cover and the PICTURE?
That's because I said picture as you can see here.
I'll admit though I only gave that part of your post a quick glance so I didn't realise you were looking for photo. I'm going to assume though that your language only has one word for photo because picture and photo are interchangeable in English which again means the mistake falls on you and your lack of understanding.
Which explains a lot about why you think imagination works.

>And there's nothing in the wording to suggest it was any in particular either
Meaning it isn't contradictory and it's entirely possible he was inspired by the paradox swords/beasts.
Again, it's open to interpretation.
>But again, if he saw the legends specifically, why fuse them?
In the real world, it was to act as foreshadowing for the legends
In the lore, there's no reason, artists can just be inspired by what they see.

>You're so hung up on this
It's not that I'm hung up on it as much as you're making a lot of mistakes a native speaker wouldn't like treating photo and picture as different things. I'm not trying to insult you it's just explains a lot.

>A picture can be anything - a drawing, a photograph, a 3D render
The moment you said photograph you should have realised you didn't have an argument here.
And no one calls a drawing or render a picture in reality. People will just call just them what they are, line art, sketch, painting, etc no one will just call them all a picture. It's technically not wrong but eh, language.
At the very least you can take this away and learn the difference between your language and English.

>It brought the living things from their dreams to life
So now you're saying it exclusively living beings? There's a lack of evidence for wishing, where are these rules coming from?
>it's a wish-granting trope that things often go wrong and the wisher doesn't get quite what they wanted
There are specific reasons for that in a story for example a Monkey's Paw takes things literally a wish to revive the dead would revive the dead as they are, as a rotting corpse.
A genie intentionally fricks with you even if you word it in a way that would work with a paw like "I want this person to come back from the dead as they are in this photo" it'll probably revive them but make them the size they are in the photo.

Dreams/imagination etc to reality doesn't work like that, there's no middle man to muddle it up or misinterpret things it's just your dream into reality.

>He's right here, anon
No he's not, it's passive dreams to reality in your theory. You even say it in this very post
>and probably isn't even 100% in control of his powers or their exact effects

You can't have it be passive and selective or active and random, they're opposites.

In other words, you've put yourself in a situation where your theory doesn't work.

Not really - not being in 100% control doesn't mean you have NO control. If Terapagos' powers do 90% of the work on their own and he fills in the remaining 10% the best he can consciously, then that's still enough of a margin of error to frick up a wish.
Your biggest problem is you deal only in absolutes - either it's 100% this or 100% that, no in-between and no room for anything other than what you say it is. The world seldom works that way.

>You aren't even grasping what the Imagination theory
Bro, you're saying he doesn't understand in the same post where you admit that YOU don't understand and have to make shit up. If it's a theory you can't just make shit up on the fly, you need consistency.

I GUARANTEE he's going to say you're samegayging just because you both used the word consistency.

>Why not? Because you say so? Again, you have no idea how this works.
Which is just another way of saying you have no explanation as to why the inconsistent output was never mentioned in game
But of course the answer is just that it isn't imagination.

Also, this is clearly rock bottom for you if you're just defaulting to
>YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!
Because you're saying it to the other guy too.

>You're claiming that Terapagos not having 100% control over its powers wouldn't 'have the consistency to make the story work'
You know you're talking about the output right? That's what we've been talking about when it comes to consistency.
If it can't control the output then there's going to be an issue with consistency as its power output rises and falls.
Get it?
It seems like you have trouble following a reply chain but you've admitted to replying to multiple people so I'm not surprised you're getting lost.
>That you've got the balls to suddenly dismiss what's literally state IN THE FRICKING GAME because it clashes with your headcanon is pure absurdity and a testament to your own fricking ego.
Anon, you are aware that we're at this point because you're disregarding the game's story, themes, subtext and just about everything for your own headcanon, that being imagination and wishes, right?
And to do that you're replying to multiple people acting as if more people believe it than there actually are.
Do you not see the irony in saying this to someone who's simply taking your "theory" and attempting to make it work with the game?

I don't think Ganker is the place for you if you can't discuss things properly.

Here's two
- It makes one thing, not exactly as imagined but close, and then can copy/paste that as much as it wants
- It's hooked up to the time machine and that's what's keeping it consistent
One or both could be true. Or neither. I don't know what'll happen in TID. And neither do you.

>The whole point of a theory is to use what you have and piece it together in a way that makes sense.
Both of those explanations make sense, and thus are theories. You have no argument, anon, you're just trying to discredit people because... I don't know actually. Why ARE time travel trolls so dedicated to making sure no one has fun?

>I don't know any other languages.
That's...sad, actually. If you're not ESL, then there's no excuse for your utter lack of reading comprehension. Your failure to understand both the events of the game and the points that have (repeatedly, over multiple threads for the past year) been brought up to you are solely due to your own failure to understand the only language you speak.
Your English teachers must all be ashamed. Forget Highschool - did you drop out of Elementary School or what?

If your 12th point was the Clavell one, yeah, I ignored it. You censored it in the first place, you were clearly as ashamed of typing it as I was of reading it. If I had to count it though, I'd still count it as another massive reach.

And then the rest that you claim is so distinct is literally still all about the professors and the Paradox Pokemon. How are the clothes the professors are wearing, the professors' names, the names of two Paradox Pokemon, and the fonts of the game titles (which are named for those same Paradox Pokemon) separate from the professors' plot?

>You need to understand the difference between headcanon and things that are hinted at in game.
Right. Claiming there is any sort of time travel in a game from a series where it's been clearly seen before but is absent here is headcanon.
What's hinted at in the game, if you actually cared to play it, is that there is some sort of force related to Tera crystals involved with wish fulfillment.

crystals have wish granting properties
This is where your headcanon comes in, where are you getting the idea of wish granting? It hasn't been observed in the game.

>How would YOU interpret this information?
The way the game portrays it instead of making up headcanon about timetravel. The dream-fulfilling qualities Tera crystals enabled are explicitly stated to have a limited radius around Area Zero. If someone just time traveled, even entertaining that idea despite there being nothing in the game to back up the time travel "theory," that technology and the AI would have just been capable of exiting the crater.
I know you don't play the game and are baiting, but at least come up with something convincing when you skim Youtube videos of the cutscenes. This shit is even worse than the "mega vs. non-mega timeline" bullshit; only then, ORAS explicitly stated that megas were possible anywhere in the base game.

>good thing the game portrays it as a time machine then.
Source: your ass?
We've literally seen time travel in the series before and there's not a single implication that it actually occurs in Scarlet and Violet. You have characters that want a time machine like Raifort and the Prof. but never once do we actually get to see one.

>How would YOU interpret this information?
By actually reading the game text. The AI says that it's the energies of the crystals that make it possible for it to exist. AND that because of that, it cannot leave. If it was advanced technology from the future that allowed for the creation of an AI beyond the scope of modern technology, then it should be able to move around just fine. But it can't even leave the lab, because it only exists through the power of the crystals. There's not even the slightest indication of time travel there

>In other words the only way you can interpret that is that the crystals act as a power source for the AI and the evidence for that is when it absorbs terastal energy at the end.
Exactly. That's the only way to interpret it. Nothing about that implies someone came from the future to deliver the technology to make it work

>at no point does the professor say that they spoke to someone from the future,
That why you put the information together. The AI says
>Humanity does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI AT PRESENT
Which is saying that it WILL exist some time in the future.
And then you have this.
>But the crystals that make up the Zero Lab have made such a thing possible here
And the crystals power the time machine which can be used to travel forward and backwards through time.

>plus the game literally tells us that humans can't go through the machine.
Also false humans can use the time machine but they wouldn't be able to return.
>"It is theoretically possible to travel to the past. However...for a being such as a human, it would not be possible to return to the present."
Not to mention we see the AI use it at the very end.

>There's no way to prove they ever reached the other side, then.
Unless of course someone came from the future. Even then testing such a thing would be as easy as going back a week before you made the machine.
Not to say that's what happened but it's not exactly a hard thing to test for since the paradox mon being 200 years ago means it can be set for specific dates rather than just millions of years into the past and future.

[...]
>If it isn't a time machine how was it created and why did no one notice genetic analysis would have revealed that which brings us to
I'm not sure what you're asking here. We know how the 'Time Machine' was created - Sada/Turo made it with the help of the other professor and Clavell. It didn't actually 'work' until the AI was created, and that's a whole other can of worms.
>Why were the Raidon genetically and behaviorally similar to Cyclizar? Neither of those things were describe in Occulture so how is it possible that they were imagined in such detail?
The Raidon was very clearly Heath's OC based off of his partner Pokemon - a Cyclizar. Whether he made it up entirely or it manifested temporarily in the crater while he was there doesn't change the fact that it was something he thought up and based on his own Pokemon. We can assume the Scarlet and Violet Book had entries on the Raidons just like they supposedly had entries on all the other Paradox 'mons Heath allegedly encountered, we just don't read them in the game (and there's no doubt the Raidon, at least, is mentioned - the thing is right on the cover). If Sada/Turo read the book and noticed the similarity to Cyclizar, then they would have concluded that it SHOULD be genetically similar, and if the 'Time Machine' - and, more specifically, the Tera Crystals it ran on - really do manifest thoughts and desires into physical entities, then this expectation of genetic similarity would have been a part of the manifestation, specifically because it was a professor who was imagining it and looking for these kind of results; I imagine that, if someone like, say, Kieran had a fake Ogerpon thought up and made real, it wouldn't have any genetic signature whatsoever, because the kid isn't a scientist who would be thinking about these things in the kind of detail a professor would.
(cont.)

>The Raidon was very clearly Heath's OC based off of his partner Pokemon - a Cyclizar.
Even if that were true nothing you've said here actually explains the genetic and behavioral similarities. Especially since not much is said about Heath's Cyclizar and when it comes to genetic similarities there's absolutely no way that could be explained without any of the parties involved knowing the specific genetic pattern of a Cyclizar off by heart and then there's the minute differences that would come in to play as ancient and future versions. They're inherently unknowable.
So in the best case scenario they would either be completely different or exactly the same indicating that they aren't in fact past and future versions and at worst they wouldn't have any genetic data because they aren't real pokemon.
>We don't know what his exact thoughts were at the time,
But we do, he was in anguish because the player and his sister lied and he was left out despite his love for Ogerpon. In other words he was filled with anger.
>but we do know that the revival of the Loyal Three provided an indirect opportunity to make him a hero to the villagers
His desire wasn't to be a Hero, it was to be strong enough to be Ogerpon's friend.
By the end of the story it just becomes a desire for strength and presumably revenge.
>The crystals seem to make thoughts physically manifest
The problem is that we've never actually seen that happen in the story. Without any evidence of that you can't make that claim.
>They don't seem to have the power to literally make a living being like someone else
Which is throws the idea of wishing and manifesting things into doubt, if it could then it would have manifested an Ogerpon for Kieran but it didn't.
>It suicided
There would still be an empty mechanical shell left behind anon.

>Why is manifestation selective as in every other pokemon came in droves but only two Raidon exist.
Because Sada/Turo wasn't wishing for past/future Pokemon, they were wishing for a time machine. The time machine then produced Pokemon as though it were a time machine, not a wish granting device.
>If they were manifested how did Heath see them?
The only confirmation we have is that Heath saw Great Tusk/Iron Treads. But if Heath went into the crater wanting to find fantastical Pokemon, and Terapagos grants wishes, then who's to say it didn't create that Great Tusk/Iron Treads for him?
>If it isn't a time machine how was it created?
Sada/Turo constructed a device hoping to create a time machine and that wish was granted, turning it into (what they believed to be) a time machine. Keep in mind the game shows Sada/Turo to be delusional, they probably didn't do much checking and just thought "yay my time machine works."
>Why were the Raidon genetically and behaviorally similar to Cyclizar? Neither of those things were describe in Occulture so how is it possible that they were imagined in such detail?
They're depicted on the front of the Scarlet/Violet book, and are likely based on the Cyclizar Heath was stated to have brought with him.
>Why would the Loyal Three come back to life if everyone thought they were dead?
As others have noted it's possible their enduring spite triggered the Tera crystals in the Teal Mask to revive them. Or it's possible the Momotaro mon was nearby and it was responsible.
>And where did the AI go if it didn't go back into the past/to the future?
It's an AI born from Tera energy/crystals, for all we know Terapagos just reabsorbed it.
>If Terapagos can grant wishes under it's own power what was the point in building anything down in Area Zero?
Because nobody knows it can grant wishes. People aren't going to operate under a premise they're unaware of. And we still don't have the full story of what happened with Sada/Turo's research team.

>They're depicted on the front of the Scarlet/Violet book, and are likely based on the Cyclizar Heath was stated to have brought with him.
That's completely unrelated, a picture doesn't convey genetics and behavior.
>As others have noted it's possible their enduring spite triggered the Tera crystals in the Teal Mask to revive them. Or it's possible the Momotaro mon was nearby and it was responsible.
That's not tying it to imagination. That's just using it as a source of power to reanimate dead pokemon.
Under the imagination theory it has to be a wish rather than just a power source like we know it is going by the Zero Logs.
>It's an AI born from Tera energy/crystals
It's not, it's a machine. It says so itself before saying the knowledge to create it shouldn't exist to which it says the crystals allowed it to happen, which is alluding to someone from the future bringing the technology/knowledge back to the present.
>for all we know Terapagos just reabsorbed it.
Then where's the mechanical husk? If it "reabsorbed" then it would just be taking its power source back, it wouldn't be able to absorb the body.
>Because nobody knows it can grant wishes
Then it's just not imagination at all. If you have to be aware of the wish granting capabilities to make a wish then no one made a wish because no one knows it's wishing.
>And we still don't have the full story of what happened with Sada/Turo's research team.
They just left.

It was always designed to catch pokemon from the far future and distant past.

>it's not
It is, you send the pokeball in, it catches a pokemon and then it retrieves it.
>The time machine is a device that the original professor and I worked on together. It sends Poké Balls to a different point on the timeline to catch Pokémon there, and it can then draw them back here to the present.
>there's no evidence in the game that the machine can be controlled in that manner.
Anon, there are paradox pokemon 200 years ago.
They were originally pulled through by the time machine in the present.
There is no time machine, 200 years ago.
How do you think paradox pokemon would get into the crater 200 years ago without a time machine?
They would have to be sent there, that is the evidence that the destination could be changed.

>this part of the game makes my time travel theory not make sense
You haven't provided anything like that, you're just claiming that something that could only happen with a time machine is proof that a time machine doesn't exist.
That's horrendously illogical.

>You are literally inventing things that are never stated to have happened.
That's literally in the game.
The Scarlet and Violet books are 200 year old books that depict paradox pokemon that were pulled through using the time machine. There is no way for them to get into the past without the use of a time machine.

>if they were manifested from thoughts and Tera Crystals
Which means there's no reason for the time machine.
If it manifests passively then the professor would have run into them long before the time machine was finished.
If it doesn't then they wouldn't be in the book.

Only a time machine works.
And you can't claim Heath lied because someone was killed as a result of their encounter with a paradox pokemon, u less you're trying to say everyone on the team just decided to murder a guy.

>The machine stabilizes the crystals and keeps manifested Paradox Pokemon from dissipating the way they did after Heath encountered them 200 years ago.
And your evidence for this?
Because if that's true then teal mask can't happen because there's nothing stabilising the use of the crystals, in other words the Loyal Three should have died after you beat them.
>The other scientists didn't manifest anything up to that point because of proximity
Then the professor wouldn't have. They were all in the same proximity working on the time machine.

The more you try to explain it the more it doesn't make sense and that's because imagination just doesn't work.

Check on them in 200 years and see if they've managed to remain manifested after all that time.
Seriously, though, if the Paradox 'mons ARE temporary projections, we have no idea how long 'temporary' actually is. Likewise, we don't know if the Professor's machine has a permanent effect on what it spits out - maybe the stabilizing effect only needs to be applied at the time of creation, and doesn't need to be maintained constantly to work. We don't know, and I'm not pretending to - I'm simply offering a counterargument to the dude who is so certain it's time travel that he's walked off to all other ideas and blind to the glaring holes his idea creates.

>Check on them in 200 years and see if they've managed to remain manifested after all that time
>we have no idea how long 'temporary' actually is
>maybe the stabilizing effect only needs to be applied at the time of creation
Those are very convenient excuses. It's almost as if you're making it up on the spot.

I think the point you're missing between the theories is that we know the timeline of events, we just don't know who or exactly how they did what they did. People guessing AI, professors, MC, Briar, are just trying to fill the gaps. They're not inventing an entire new theory to explain away why the plot of the game was a lie.

>your assumption that there's a 200 year period before things made by the crystals disappear
I know you're new to the English language, but when someone follows up something with the lines 'seriously, though' or 'in all seriousness ', it means that whatever was stated prior to that wasn't supposed to be taken as gospel.
If you want a more accurate assumption on how long such a manifestation would last, I would guess roughly an hour, if that. No, I'm not making shit up out of the blue here - we know in-game that Terastrallization isn't permanent and does wear off after a while - either after a Pokemon has been KO'd or after a battle has ended. For gameplay's sake, there's no time limit, but I think it's safe to assume that the effect is supposed to wear off on its own at some point, hence why wild Terastrallized Pokemon will 'vanish' (despawn) after a while if not engaged when you see them glowing and roaming about. Since the Imagination theory is about thought manifestation through exposure to Tera Crystals, the effects of the manifestation - regardless of HOW the phenomena manifests in the given situation - should logically all last for the same duration. This game is entirely about the Terastrallization Phenomena. EVERYTHING is connected to it. So it stands to reason that the Paradox 'Mons are also connected - and if they're a manifestation, their existence SHOULD be temporary, but clearly isn't. Which means the Professor's machine has done something to them to prolong the effect and keep them in existence; by extension, without the machine doing whatever it did, they should vanish - exactly like what was reported when later expeditions failed to find the Pokemon Heath had encountered.

>Dude there's like zero holes to time travel beyond the paradox pokemon existing 200 years ago and that can happen with a time machine.
Don't you think someone would have MENTIONED they sent Pokemon 200 years into the past? The only person it could have been was the Professor, since we shut down the machine and the only key needed to turn it on no longer exists. Why wouldn't the Professor SAY they were sending Pokemon to the past in their journal? Why would they WANT to send them to Heath's time to begin with? In the case of the past Pokemon, why is there ZERO fossil evidence that they ever existed to begin with - within the crater, or anywhere else on the planet? If it IS time travel, then wouldn't that mean all the absurdity in the Occulture magazines is correct,even though most of that bullshit is clearly impossible?
There's more, but I don't have the time or energy to write it all out right now.

Nta, but to point of >Arven is hinting at it being used. That's foreshadowing you idiot.

No, it can’t be, we already sent the key into oblivion with the AI.

That's an assumption. Different people can have keys with different levels of clearance - that's generally how it works in an actual laboratory; his co-workers may have had clearance to the labs and waystations on their cards, but the Professor was undoubtedly the only one with clearance to the Time Machine encoded onto theirs - it was their personal project, and presumably off-the-books because the official reason they were in the crater (and the one they were receiving funding for, which they were no doubt illegally diverting to the Time Machine) was to study the Terastallization phenomena, not to indulge in their own personal obsession. It's why the AI specifically needed Arven's copy of the book and not, say, Clavell's ID despite having the opportunity to ask him for it.

the "key" was a code. A code that either Arven knows or is still in her lab. Or on the original book. You don't understand how this trope works.

>the "key" was a code. A code that either Arven knows or is still in her lab. Or on the original book. You don't understand how this trope works.
Nope. Arven had looked through that book cover to cover many times looking for a solution to saving his dog, and the Player got a chance to look at it as well without noticing any code written in there; the AI also doesn't bother thumbing through or even opening the book to look for a code when we hand it to them. The 'key' was most likely an RFID chip embedded in one of the covers, making the book itself the key. That way anyone specifically looking to steal the key would never even know it was there. This is actually something that is currently in-use today - people use them in passports, books (like the Professor), and even embed them in their skin, so it wouldn't be unusual.

>It was a code in the spine of the book.
You're saying that like it's a known fact and not something you're pulling out of your ass. There was nothing written anywhere on that book that was out of the ordinary or Arven would have found it; it had to be something placed somewhere he wouldn't have seen, and it had to function without anyone needing to type it into a computer or open it up to insert it into something - all the AI does is drop the book into a slot, and the machine turns on. The only thing that works in that situation is an RFID chip, which works like the tap function on a credit card.

What complicated code? It's literally an ID chip. There's nothing complex about it - in fact, an RFID chip is designed to be idiot-proof. Also, whether or not it IS an RFID chip has nothing to do with Time Travel OR Imagination, so get that stick out of your ass.

It's not a code, it's explicitly a key. The AI outright says the machine can't be turned back on without the book - and, later, it realizes that it itself is also a part of the machine and is apparently a crucial enough component to keeping it activated that it felt the need to remove itself - and the physical key - from the equation at the end to ensure the shutdown was permanent.

>It's not a code, it's explicitly a key.
It's neither you imagination frickwits
It's a card that she glued, sewed whatever into the book.
>The AI outright says the machine can't be turned back on without the book -
No, the AI said it can't be turned OFF without the book.

How can you morons get it so wrong when both pieces of information are in the same quote?
>To stop the time machine, you will need to use the professor's ID, which has been embedded within the Scarlet Book. It was very like the professor to put the final key we would need in that book, of all places. She loved that volume since childhood."

You're the reason why lore threads have gone to shit because you have the attention span of a microwaved black bean.

This is the point it became a lore thread

one thing that doesn't add up to me is if the focus of the DLC is Area Zero and its treasure why will we go to Blueberry Academy? Hell why did we even go to Kitakami? Is Terapagos in Blueberry? I know there's the tera crystals in Kitakami and theres Terrastal readings in Blueberry but nothing came of it in Kitakami what will be different in Blueberry?

Nothing about time travel or imagination.
The itching started here

what possible explanation for 3 dead people returning to life would there be if not wish granting?
time travel doesn’t work, can’t bring them from the future because they’re dead. can’t bring them back from the past because there were accounted for all the way up to them dying and getting buried by villager witnesses.

And it was in defence of imagination.

>we already know the machine is used again.
Do we? It makes sense, but we don't know for sure. We know Terapagos will have to be involved, but there's every chance Briar will go down to the Zero Lab, find the machine, and lose it when she realizes her ticket to clearing Heath's name no longer works, prompting her to try to make it happen through Terapagos itself

the "key" was a code. A code that either Arven knows or is still in her lab. Or on the original book. You don't understand how this trope works.

>You don’t call attention to lack of fossil evidence if it’s not going to matter and not going to be immediately contradicted by something people in universe already know.
You do if you're making a story where past and future are interchangeable. After all you'd have to have a future equivalent in Violet and you can't have future fossils.

And come on, get your information right.
For starters, it wasn't saying that there were no fossils from that era, it was saying that there were no VOLCARONA fossils. If they found a slither wing fossil they wouldn't identify it as volcarona.
Second, it's in Occulture, the whole point of the books is to make the player think that paradox mon aren't real by saying bizzare shit only to pull the rug out and say that they're actually real. Everything that isn't "this is based on a pokemon described in the Scarlet/Violet book" is made up.

>other than to maliciously mislead the player.
Welcome to red herrings
>Red Herring
>noun
>a clue or piece of information that is, or is intended to be, misleading or distracting.

>A red herring has to have obviously contradictory elements
No? It just has to be misleading like the books.
>You don’t do them for no reason
Anon, it's meant to make the player think that the paradox mon are fake. That's the reason.
You were meant to read it and think they're impossible

>This is the stupidest argument in this thread, and that's saying something. No one thinks the Paradoxes are fake. You can literally catch them
Are you braindead?
You're looking at it as someone who has finished the game.
Of course you know they're real now. That's like saying red herrings can't exist period because stories end.

>then why would the game specifically include something to make people question the time travel?
Because it doesn't. There's nothing in the game that makes anyone question time travel.

>it doesn't happen at all
You know foreshadowing is a common thing in storytelling right?
>AI and the book are both needed
Nope. Not at all.
Never said.
The book had the professor's ID, that's it. Find another and you're as good as gold.
The AI was just there to protect the time machine hence why it had a paradise PROTECTION protocol, it's not required for it and we know that because the first Raidon was pulled through long before it existed.

You're making up reasons as to why time travel can't happen again when nothing in the game says it can't.

>It's the Peach Pokemon from the game files

>frankestein's monster is a construct
Anon, it's literally reanimated corpse tissue. Have you read Frankenstein before?
There's no real difference between the monster and a zombie because they're both the living dead.

>No, they saw their own memories of that relative, they way they saw them when they were alive.
They didn't see anything. We don't see it happen in game, it's just a rumor.
>And you can IMAGINE a zombie
Yeah, you could but you can't imagine a dead person back to life, unless you literally are insane and full on reject reality 24/7.

>A zombie does not have free will,
Yeah I don't need to read any more of this because that's not a consistent part of being a zombie, there are tons of zombie stories that have zombies with free will
Sankarea
Marvel zombies, and before you try to argue that they realise that the hunger is all mental and it disappears so they're just living corpses that aren't driven by hunger
Jojo with Buccarati if you want to be technical.
Darkstalkers with Hsien-ko
Resi 8 with Ethan
Shantae and Rotty Tops
That Tim Burton movie with the zombie bride
You get the picture. The onlt thing that's necessary with zombies is being a reanimated corpse.

>It's called foreshadowing
Nope. Arven was foreshadowing he's talking about something that relates to time travel, specifically a time paradox.
You just have a random sign that doesn't tie into anything we've seen in game.

>There's literal magic in this world
No, outside of the god pokemon there has never been anything like that. Sure you have Jirachi the wish Pokemon but that has never been used to grant wishes in game and in its movie it was just faking it.

>All of those zombies have in common that they're the same person they were in life
Okay? And? That doesn't change the fact that they're zombies.
>That's the difference i'm talking about
You're the only one trying to create an arbitrary distinction on reanimated corpses.
>Or foreshadowing that there's something about how the story is told that it doesn't make sense
Then that's not foreshadowing that's just saying something outright.
>Folklore in Pokémon always has something to do with the story.
No.
The original dragon doesn't show up in game
Kyurem eating people is never confirmed
People and pokemon getting married went nowhere.
You can count the amount of times folklore ties into the actual story on your hand.
>It was twisting it because the emotion the wish came from was negative
What? What the frick are you talking about? Are you talking about the Jirachi movie? Because no wishes were actually granted in a magic way.
It teleported things from nearby and in the case of Groudon Butler didn't technically need Jirachi but a power source to revive it.
>And yes, magical stuff happens all the time, say islands that appear and appear without logic, Pokémon traveling to a dream world when they sleep and bring material objects with them in the real world, Stones able to contains legendary pokémon
That's not magic, that's just their abilities. Actual wishes and magic has never happened.

>It would be outright if Arven said "hmm, something doens't add up. Perhaps... there's more to this story than simple time travel?
I don't think you understand how foreshadowing works. Referring to the fact that it's foreshadowing defeats the purpose.
>"weird... how could Heath see those pokémon, if the time machine wasn't invented yet by my mother/father?"
Yeah, because it's foreshadowing the time paradox.
>Yet he's important to the plot of B2W2
It's not, it doesn't show up in the game. The closest is the Kyurem Fusions but we never see a full original dragon. It doesn't tier into the story.
>But it's one of the reasons a village exists in the way it does
It's in the game but that doesn't mean it's relevant to the story.
That's the point here.
>It was another underline of how humans and pokémon's lives always intertwined, so much so that in the past they didn't use to make differences between the two
Again, it isn't relevant. It's just lore on the side that has no purpose other than to add a bit of world building. That's it.
>Yes i was talking about the movie
Then you didn't make an argument because there's no corruption of a wish. Butler didn't wish for Jirachi to revive the fake Groudon it just stole it's power to fuel his machine.
>I don't see why a legendary pokémon can't have such a otherwordly power
Dude, I said before that the god pokemon can do it so they do exist but Terapagos and it's crystals haven't.
>A Flesh Golem it's not a zombie just because it was made with dead people, there's also a distinction in their origin
They're both reanimated corpses anon. Making the distinction between corpse parts and full corpses is pointless because it's the same thing a dead body being brought to life.

>You seem to not want to go more than two lines deep into a story's themes
You're joking right.
You're not actually trying to accuse me of that when you're literally refusing to read into the meaning of what's said in SV are you?
The sheer hypocrisy here is astounding.
Anyway the point is that the original dragon, of course the brothers who controlled reshiram and zekrom have a parallel in you and N but not the original dragon.
There's a reason why I mentioned the original dragon specifically.
>How it's not relevant when the villain of the game is a sociopath that believes everyone would be better off without emotions and without forming bonds
Okay anon, pay attention. What does the folklore story have to do with Cyrus?
Does he even know of it?
>A Lich and a zombie are both undead born from a decaying corpse
Anon, Lich is literally a wizard/warlock who turned himself into a zombie to evade death. The problem here is that you're seeing zombie as a specific monster rather than a state of existence.

>No, i don't think so
Then there you go, your argument ends here. It has no relevance to the main story.
>because you get mad when someone tries to read even a little deeper in a story than you did.
That's not even what hypocrisy means. Not to mention you're only reading things on the very surface anyway.
>And i told you why the original dragon IS important to be mentioned.
I quite literally just explained it to you.
>A zombie IS a specific monster anon
No it isn't a zombie is a broad spectrum that branches out into different types, slow and fast zombies being the two common ones.

You're not even trying to accept a new point of view. You just want to be correct.

>This is already the second time you cut short one of my arguements without even giving a comeback
Because there's nothing to argue, you already accepted that there's no relation. Everything else is just grasping to save face.
>because you accused me of not reading between the lines, while i think you're the one doing so.
Key words "I think".
If you don't understand the concept of hypocrisy then of course you're going to use it wrong.
>And how's my interpretation of the story more surface level than yours?
Anon, right here

>Then that's not foreshadowing that's just saying something outright.
It would be outright if Arven said "hmm, something doens't add up. Perhaps... there's more to this story than simple time travel?". Instead he says "weird... how could Heath see those pokémon, if the time machine wasn't invented yet by my mother/father?"
>The original dragon doesn't show up in game
Yet he's important to the plot of B2W2, because that's the reason that Kyurem can fuse to Reshiram/Zekrom, and brings all together the theme of black and white, where the dragon become two apparent opposites so that he could support both brothers
>Kyurem eating people is never confirmed
But it's one of the reasons a village exists in the way it does, and why it lives reclused in a Chasm, probably the same where the Original Dragon impacted on its arrival to Earth
>People and pokemon getting married went nowhere.
It was another underline of how humans and pokémon's lives always intertwined, so much so that in the past they didn't use to make differences between the two
>What? What the frick are you talking about? Are you talking about the Jirachi movie? Because no wishes were actually granted in a magic way.
It teleported things from nearby and in the case of Groudon Butler didn't technically need Jirachi but a power source to revive it.
Yes i was talking about the movie, because that's what you bringed up in that section.
>That's not magic, that's just their abilities. Actual wishes and magic has never happened.
Just like then the crystals are an ability of Terapagos. I don't see why a legendary pokémon can't have such a otherwordly power

You outright said that it's not foreshadowing unless they make it obvious that they're using foreshadowing as literary device.
>It would be outright if Arven said "hmm, something doens't add up. Perhaps... there's more to this story than simple time travel?"
How is this not an admission of only reading things on a surface level.
>And you insisted that only Zekrom and Reshiram are important, while the Original Dragon is not.
Okay look, if the original dragon folklore tied into the story we would see a double battle or something with you and N fighting Ghetsis with the two dragons which would lead into a final battle where they form the original dragon. Instead it's only mentioned and not seen meaning that while parts of it do the rest doesn't namely the original dragon.
>they always talk about a corpse that was reanimated by dark magic or a virus against their will. The soul of the previous body it's not in there anymore, it's like a puppet on a string.
I gave you examples where that isn't the case at all.
I fact your idea of a zombie rarely actually comes up in media.

>Then that's not foreshadowing that's just saying something outright.
It would be outright if Arven said "hmm, something doens't add up. Perhaps... there's more to this story than simple time travel?". Instead he says "weird... how could Heath see those pokémon, if the time machine wasn't invented yet by my mother/father?"
>The original dragon doesn't show up in game
Yet he's important to the plot of B2W2, because that's the reason that Kyurem can fuse to Reshiram/Zekrom, and brings all together the theme of black and white, where the dragon become two apparent opposites so that he could support both brothers
>Kyurem eating people is never confirmed
But it's one of the reasons a village exists in the way it does, and why it lives reclused in a Chasm, probably the same where the Original Dragon impacted on its arrival to Earth
>People and pokemon getting married went nowhere.
It was another underline of how humans and pokémon's lives always intertwined, so much so that in the past they didn't use to make differences between the two
>What? What the frick are you talking about? Are you talking about the Jirachi movie? Because no wishes were actually granted in a magic way.
It teleported things from nearby and in the case of Groudon Butler didn't technically need Jirachi but a power source to revive it.
Yes i was talking about the movie, because that's what you bringed up in that section.
>That's not magic, that's just their abilities. Actual wishes and magic has never happened.
Just like then the crystals are an ability of Terapagos. I don't see why a legendary pokémon can't have such a otherwordly power

>Okay? And? That doesn't change the fact that they're zombies.
I exactly told you what's the difference. A Flesh Golem it's not a zombie just because it was made with dead people, there's also a distinction in their origin

What are you talking about?
None of that has any relation to the topic other than the fact that you mentioned zombies.

And?
I don't know what this has to do with the final battle of the game.

You didn't say intertwine, you said their stories had no effect on the main story. Don't backpedal, it's not a good look

it's both, because the professor would have never called you if they didn't know you were a capable trainer

yes, they already saw potential in you, but they would've never called you before you got the champion rank