When people say "old" Warhammer 40k lore was better im puzzled. It all kinda feels the same to me becasue it is. The same old farts who wrote for it back then are still arguably controlling it now. If you mention Imperial Armor youll only mention Vraks or Badb nothing else.
When I think of some GOOD shit 40k lore I honestly think it has to be Fantasy Flight Games.
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>When people say "old" Warhammer 40k lore was better im puzzled.
Less DEI shit.
next youll say marvel, FFG has plenty of shit youll scream its woke at I bet.
You are a fake grog nothing more nothing less
He's right. They released black Black Templars and black Ultramarines. They wouldn't look purely African like that even if black civilians existed in amounts enough to be given gene seed. They should look mixed, or perhaps even albino-ish. They should vaguely resemble the Lion or Guilliman, respectively. They can look vaguely African canonically, but anything else is not canon.
You picked the two chapters with the largest pools of recruitment worlds to make your point.
aaaaakyewlly old lore space marines have always had the gene-seed to control the melanin in their skin :DD
Didn't say that wasn't the case, fricktard.
The Melanochrome would turned either example I gave White. It's the same meta reason Vulkan's doesn't work, because then all the African-looking people would turn White after zero exposure to the sun in the void. Not interested in going back and forth on this.
>is wrong
>I don’t want to talk about it no more
Unironically based
Black people aren't just phenotypically melanin rich. Ethiopians look different than Zulus.
>They should vaguely resemble the Lion or Guilliman, respectively.
This is not a thing. Secondaries hear about how Blood Angels look like Sanguinius and think it's true of all the Marines, but it isn't. Blood Angels use a very different and unusual method of transforming their aspirants. Everyone else just gets cut open and has organs stuck inside them. It doesn't change their facial features at all.
>what are the sons of horus
Sons of horus, salamanders, raven guard, night lords, alpha legion, blood angels, emperors children, off the top of my head are described as taking on the appearance of their primarchs.
there are 3 chapters where all marines look like their primarch:
the BA who drink Sanguinius' blood
the Salamanders who are recruited from a mega radioactive world and have genetic adaptations to it (all Nocturne humans look like Vulkan because they're from Nocturne
and the Raven Guard because Corax's genes were fricked
no other chapters look like their primarch
And those last two it's only the skin color. Blood Angels are the only singular ones that actually transform their facial features to resemble their Primarch.
The Lunar Wolves did, a notable feature was that some of their faces took on Horus' own aspect.
Sounds like some BL-only NULORE IGNORE shit.
Is 2006 nu-lore? This was something stated in Horus Rising
Anything after 2004 is nu-lore, HH-slop doubly so.
Alpha Legion, Night Lords
Why believe lies, anon? You don't have to.
anon, are you gonna also b***h about how middle eastern the word bearers are, or how the emperor is probably a brown Hittite caveman from anatolia?
Why would he? You aren't bothering to understand the complaint because you fear it will make sense to you.
You stroking out there slop monger?
You will not be missed
Based
Marvel is for kids
Don't worry, Ruffo will give the drones a new acronym to worry about closer to November
Another left wing meme that's just a "repurposed" right wing meme.
>rightoids surprised that memes are memetic
What’s crazy is that meme directly exposes every golem left of Reagan lol.
>ctr is getting hammered! Abandon schools! Refocus on pozzing the workplace!!!
Those gays can’t do anything unless it’s kosher
This. The shoehorning of it into the setting is really dumb. Graham McNeil and Mike Brooks are really bad at this, and they can't get kicked out soon enough.
I believe Brooks is an actual troony.
Divide et Impera ?
True, anon.
FFG 40k is good but I think you're kind of a scumbag for responding to that other poster how you did.
Superficially you could say that sure. But the difference is old 40k was bigger. Each author had their own sandbox, the Sabbat Worlds Crusade for example are characters and places entirely of the mind of Abnett. The Last Chancers of Gav Thrope. When they did deal with canon characters and factions, they were in the background ala Calgar showing up in one or two of Ventris' (a creation of Graham) books or Abaddon's single page cameo in Execution Hour.
The Horus Heresy however taught GW that the setting isn't as potentially popular as a character drama. So now everything centers around the Indomitus Crusade and Guilliman. Or on a "main character" from a codex. It's difficult to find a book that doesn't frame itself within the context of a new setting-spanning meta-narrative. They even wrote a new Last Chancers that ends with them joining Guilliman's crusade.
Tl;dr
Old 40k was a sandbox setting for Your Dudes Hobbyists and New 40k is a Character drama for Loretubers and more mainstream scifi fans.
The theoretical show and all the new games also indicates they're also putting a far greater emphasis than any point previous on monetizing secondaries who aren't hobbyists at any level.
Man this opinion is said often here what’s the point of you are speaking to a choir
What is the point of asking if you already know or don't want to hear the answer?
A cursory overview of the thread would indicate he made the it to shitpost in.
Well the choir obviously wasn't loud since OP asked, so I answered. Simple as that. All other answers are political brainrot (it's good/bad cuz DEI) or lazy buzzword shorthand (It's been Marvelized) that makes you wonder if the person even knows what they're saying.
Though it strikes me from the tone of your post, if I'm not overreading it, that you think I've abscribed value to new or old 40k; I didn't. I explained the difference despite their superficial similarity and I assure you that any value-judgements on which is better are unintentional, projection or both.
Sounds like you are mad
Projection then. Can't control how you read my posts.
lol u mad nerd
Ywnbaw
>OP asks question
>anon answers question
>"why you answer question?"
>"OP asked"
>"umad"
superb shitposting
I like old lore but I also like Guilliman and his arc, I prefer this version of 40k that says "humanity won't give up", it's what I've always liked about the setting.
Then you are helping to kill Warhammer 40k frick off marvel loser
Why are 40k fans like this now here? Its either you agree with a circle jerk or get called marvel so annoying
It's called gatekeeping and honestly we should try and spread the gatekeeping
t. Paypiggy black templars fanboi
I'm an FFG RPG exclusive Chad who will never give GW a single penny, you're part of a horrific consoomer subhuman clade
>a tertiary thinks he's saving the franchise
I don't care about your franchise israelite, I'm only interested in 40k as a setting for RPGs and I will never shed a tear for the heinous paypiggy consoomer boomers losing "their" (some yid's) plastic cartoon hobby to trannies. They deserve it for shitting on RPGs and generally being slovenly paypigs. But make no mistake, your wretched perversions end with the boomer generation.
NTA
>EHH EHH israeliteS AND EHH EHH KEKS AND EHH EHH CHAD
wow you are an embarassing piece of shit. you are honestly trying to come off as a tough guy sprouting phrases you learn from pol? you sound like the lowest wienersucker in andrew tates harem of lowlifes who think acting tough will impress anyone over the age of 15.
holy shit this is an anonymous image board, why don't you try to earn some big boy points in reddit? in secret, of course, because we all know you are too tough for pretty much everything. ywnbam
what a fricking loser. grow up
Wow what a stunning rebuttal from the jeet golem. This will definitely make people want to pay GW hundreds or thousands for their shitty plastic toy armies, and more importantly convince everyone to let israel genocide those nasty Arabs, good work rajneesh.
>let israel genocide those nasty Arabs
Based
Does anyone actually LIKE Arabs? Aren't they basically all objectively terrible people? Look at, I dunno, Afghanistan Iran or Qatar. Those places are incredible shitholes.
Islam is the real issue.
Creates something akin to a hivemind.
Afghanistan and Iran aren't Arab, mate
Do they frick kids and goats? Yes? Then they’re spiritually Arab
Don't even bother answering posts like that. We're slowly approaching the point where it's a 70/30 chance it's a LLM trained on pol or the guy is so brain-dead he might as well be a LLM. Waste of bandwidth.
> this version of 40k that says "humanity won't give up"
>this version
That's literally always been the case, I fact more so in older fluff.
This. newbies are always so fricking cringe pretending like they know what the old fluff was like when they've never even read it.
No the frick it wasn’t what the frick. You are high on crack if you haven’t noticed the tone difference from solely surviving to trying to win
>trying to win
But that's not a thing now either, and no one said so. The post earlier in the reply chain said "humanity won't give up" - aka clinging to life, surviving. moron.
>But that's not a thing now either,
Yeah because the High Lords of Terra weren’t specifically obsessed with Terra and not the rest of the Imperium, People like Cawl who want to reverse engineer their way back to the DAoT weren’t openly killed, and the history of the imperium wasn’t literally just made up at whim and will via political redactions and killings. Why read anything when I can just make shit up and get mad
>Yeah because the High Lords of Terra weren’t specifically obsessed with Terra and not the rest of the Imperium
You are the one making shit up, not reading the rest of this drivel
The lorelet cries out typical
More bleak though.
Like an uphill battle just to find another hill and another battle, with plenty of traitors along the way.
The grimness of the setting is being toned back and the medieval catholic church at the height of its power; with all the suppression and subjugation it could muster is also being attacked.
40k has always been influenced by outside media but there is a political agenda at work with today's crowd.
>More bleak though.
It's still just as bleak, people get servitored for no reason, etc.
Guilliman and Cawl haven't fixed shit and never will.
I mean they improved on astartes, something the GEOM never could.
Primarchs coming back is a good sign for the imperium as a whole.
An eldar was responsible in aiding Guilimans "resurrection".
There's more friendliness than there was.
>I mean they improved on astartes, something the GEOM never could.
Can you prove that Emperor couldn't have improved upon the marines?
>Primarchs coming back is a good sign for the imperium as a whole.
It is just a good sign, and which is irrelevant. Doesn't mean it will always be good.
Nevermind that both Guilliman and Lion have re-awoken and Imperium is still a shithole, and Guilliman himself even admits that there is no fixing it ever.
>An eldar was responsible in aiding Guilimans "resurrection".
Imperium and Eldar working together isn't new, newbie.
>There's more friendliness than there was.
There really is not.
It's the same amount.
>I mean they improved on astartes, something the GEOM never could.
Fricking Corax was able to do it. Fabius Bile was already adding shit to them even before the Heresy. People really need to drop this notion that space marines are some impossibly unreachable achievement.
In real fluff written by 40k's creators, Corax's marines were an abject failure and without Alpha Legion involvement.
> In real fluff written by
Written by real Scotsmen
In so far as in this case "real scotsman" are the setting's creators and not fans being paid to write published fan fiction: yes.
People say this shit as if a lot of the studio people didn't eventually transition into BL.
Graham McNeil, Anthony Reynolds, Gav Thorpe, Andy Hoare... All of their names are on the original Index Astartes stuff.
And Alan Merrett was in charge of the IP from RT era to well into Horus Heresy series. The truth is that this is what those guys wanted, except someone like Rick Priestley who left after his Fantasy ideas (that started with Tamurkhan) were shelved due to low sales, as the setting itself would be soon
>except someone like Rick Priestley
Given that he was the main driver behind 40k initially, makes sense he was the only one with sense. Also makes sense why he was one of the few who had the sense to leave when things were selling out to Corporate (Ansel having the sense to sell out entire and leave in 1991 for money and Chambers leaving in 2005 only to come back in the mid-2010s to make a few quick bucks off of Dark Eldar novels)
Priestley mostly seems to be think 40k lore became simplistic, he uses words "Waagh the Emperor" in an interview. Also Chaos wasn't supposed to be always evilbad but it is now to contrast with Imperium being ork-tier simple.
>BIFFORD: The way you describe it, Chaos isn't inherently evil. Is it possible for somebody to be a Chaos worshiper and be a good, heroic person?
>PRIESTLEY: Of course - if a bit of a chancer!
>BIFFORD: I take it you were not heavily involved in shaping the lore of WH40K, because every time Chaos is mentioned in any book, it is described as "foul". Even in "Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness".
>PRIESTLEY: Sure - it depends on your perspective doesn't it - we played to that - classic faction building: who do you like/hate, where do you live, and so on. I don't think chaos followers would think of themselves as evil.
>BIFFORD: Sure, everyone has their own skewed perspective, but I figured you would know what the "truth" is. And the Realm of Chaos books seem written in a detached, objective manner. I'm not saying your take on Chaos is "wrong", just that it seems the writers who succeeded you went in a different direction after you quit the creative side of things.
>PRIESTLEY: For sure - and Bryan sold the company and moved on about 91 - and Chaos owed a lot to Bryan who always had a thoughtful take on these things. I tried to carry that forward - but once it left my hands (we all have to move on!) I think things lost a lot of that subtlety and became far more 2-dimensional.
>Priestley mostly seems to be think 40k lore became simplistic
Yeah, but that's not new - it was happening steadily through the 90s as 40k became more of a straight up battle game with fixed armies defined by miniature ranges. Even by 2nd edition it was all a lot more fixed than he imagined it, where 10 millennia of history across a million worlds was supposed to cover all sorts of possibilities rather than just endless stagnant hive worlds.
And yeah, chaos was presumably intended to allow for at least an Elric style antihero given where the idea comes from. But I'm not sure anything they ever put out really reflected that.
He said the same thing about the Imperium. Initially every world was supposed to be unique according to the dictates of its governing system and culture - but Corporate found it easier to have gothic architecture everywhere.
>In real fluff written by 40k's creators, Corax's marines were an abject failure and without Alpha Legion involvement.
No, you're an actual lorelet.
The only reason why the Raptors Project failed is only due to the Alpha Legion infiltrators intentionally fricking with the process by infecting the marines with daemon blood.
Raptors were completely fine before it.
>Calls someone a lorelet
>Only knows about the lore anon already dismissed as fan fiction
What did he mean by this? As much of a unsubstanive as an appeal to No True Scotsman was, at least it addressed the point of the post
>noooo
>more than one person can't call my dumbass stupid for the same reason
>Old 40k was a sandbox setting for Your Dudes Hobbyists and New 40k is a Character drama for Loretubers and more mainstream scifi fans.
New 40k is still a sanbox setting for /yourdudes/, they just added more shit to play around with essentially.
I'm 99% sure he's arguing the difference is in the focus of the fluff not that 40k is now No Your Dudes Allowed. Thus his emphasis on the shift from primarily author setting and character OCs to primarily studio-driven storylines.
You fool, these "new things to play with" are cages, don't you see?
You dont play the tabletop game, I take it, tourist?
Get out.
This has to do with the chapterhouse ruling - I’d they build the IP for something and then they don’t make a model for it (and some 3rd party makes great minis on the cheap because GW loves ugly CAD designs) then there’s frick all they can do about it. It also makes for better brand synergy.
I’d say old lore stops around 5/6th Ed, but really the turning point is the chapterhouse decision.
A lot of it is the Chapterhouse ruling.
Though I'm amazed, in general, at the amount that, in the last 20 years, people have increasingly insisted that 'character' is the only thing that matters in a story. Not 'plot', not 'setting', just 'character.'
And it's cause a lot of warping of how stories are told, even in types of media where things like plot or setting seem like they should be more important.
Though, thinking about it, that larger trend is probably related to the same mindset 40k uses after Chapterhouse - a story focused on 'character' is way more marketable for a corporation that just wants to make money.
>They even wrote a new Last Chancers that ends with them joining Guilliman's crusade.
Holy shit cringe
>The same old farts who wrote for it back then are still arguably controlling it now
Priestly hasn't even looked at 40k since he left GW, and I think his input largely stopped long before then.
>Fantasy Flight Games
Literally who?
I think Gav Thorpe or Phil Kelly might be the longest tenured people still writing. Priestley left, Chambers left, Bligh died.
And Phill has managed to singlehandedly kill Tau lore.
Go read the taros campaign and compare to any of his books.
During his last decade at GW Priestley just did Warhammer Historical and occasionally contributed ideas for other projects, enough that his name got into the credits but never actually doing any work.
/tg/ is just dead the same handful of Warhammer fans scream the same opinion every thread
>Start a thread about shit that was discussed here a millions of time already
>Be mad that you're getting the same answers you've seen a million times already
Wow, how could this be happening
- less emphasis on customizing your dudes in codices
- models are all monopose garbage that look dumb in large numbers
- Imperial worlds are mostly slight variants on the same 8-10 archetypes that have been done to death, civilized worlds mostly forgotten despite originally being the most common type
- too much metaplot stuff and focus on a few heroes
some of the same writers are still around and doing good stuff, but the new corporate direction is all about flanderizing stuff for copyright purposes and heavy emphasizing the actions of a few characters due to the popularity of the HH series
Define "old lore" as from what I can tell:
>Classic: 1st-2ed had a 80's power metal cartoony filter. Things were terribly drawn and the universe was goofy.
>Grimdark: 3rd-5th and the Blanchitsu filter. Everything sepia is brown and grotty and all the art heavily features that "two tsunamis of bodies crashing into each other".
>HD Grimdark Era: 6th-7th with the Photoshop look to it.
>Nu-Age : 8th+ Has the nu-era look to it: where power armour looks more form fitting than giga-huge, the "floating heads" movie poster artwork and everyone has a forced "they are just misunderstood" angle to them.
The FFG lore was through 5th-7th which was when it really opened up to everyone being able to contribute their own little stories and set dressing. I think FFG lore fits quite well to this period because they had a bit of artistic license to work with and everyone was crying out for the lore to move onwards because it had been the same "one minute to midnight" story for so long.
newbiegy as frick take.
>The same old farts who wrote for it back then are still arguably controlling it now
Rick Priestley is long gone, Andy Chambers is long gone, Jervis Johnson is gone, Bryan Ansell is dead, Richard Halliwell is dead, Nigel Stillman is long gone...
So what in the actual FRICK are you on about?
Gav Thorpe is still around, and Xer is making meaningful efforts to detoxify the legacy of those worthless pale stale males you mentioned!
Gav hasn't had anything to do with GW in ages, what on earth are you talking about. Phil Kelly is still around, but everyone else from the 3rd-5th period is long gone and it sounds like Kelly is mainly focused on AoS.
>In ages
Gav Thrope's last BL novel was only two years ago.
>Gav hasn't had anything to do with GW in ages
moron
he's single handedly responsible for ynnari being dumpstered and is currently writing a votann book
He sounds gay
Jervis is finally gone? Is that why they're allowed to support actually good rulesets like KT21? Why haven't they fixed mainline 40k then?
Old lore is everything before 5th edition. I will not adjust this position.
It's roughly accurate.
Nice bait thread
It does seem to be a failing of so many nu40k fans that they can't just have a little bit of something.
The Badab War or Taros Campaign or the wars on Armageddon aren't enough any more.
They need "plot progression" that tears the galaxy in two, they need le epik reveals that [usually through some asspull retcon] reveal the "truth" behind the established myth. They need basically a small cast they basically imagine high-school drama about, be it the Primarchs or Cawl and that.
It does nothing but makes the whole galaxy smaller, and both HH and 41k are worse for it.
And GW are happy to sate them, both because they want the money from passionate whales, but also the (withered) creative team are now mostly people who grew up as 40k fans, with their own biases towards certain characters; rather than being a collective of people who took inspiration from different sci-fi and fantasy properties to actually make 40k so amazing, they're like kids allowed into the chocolate factory.
Primarchs on tabletop in 40k is the summation of this problem. The world is small when every fricking mongoloid runs big-name characters. Small, 1k point battle? Time to whip out Angron vs Bobby G, because damn it, I spent too much time painting them to not use them!
Another one of the big problems is the fact that characters who should be fricking dead and turned into dust by now are still booting around. All those human inquisitors you liked from 500 years ago? Why the frick are they still alive? Don't give me hand-wavey bullshit about some magical super-life-extending crap. If GW is set on moving the setting forward (and forward hundreds of years), then characters need to fricking die. "Much fighting, many hardships, worst time for the Imperium ever!" and nobody like Calgar has even gotten so much as a pimple on their ass.
Killing Calgar would be like killing Karl Franz, not going to happen until they scrap the setting.
Calgar is basically irrelevant now that Bobby is back, writing's on the wall for Azrael too now.
>Calgar is basically irrelevant now that Bobby is back, writing's on the wall for Azrael too now.
Nope, Calgar is and forever will be the Chapter Master and in charge of the Ultra Marines, just like how Azrael is of the DAngels.
Both have very new plastic models, Azrael especially, and GW is gonna keep selling those models for a long long time.
They are never getting killed off.
>Don't give me hand-wavey bullshit about some magical super-life-extending crap. If GW is set on moving the setting forward (and forward hundreds of years), then characters need to fricking die.
Life extending crap exists.
Also Warp travel shenannigans, sometimes when a ship travels through the Warp it might have been only couple of days for the crew, but it could have been like 1000 years has passed in the materium.
Sometimes even the opposite happens, that you start to travel the Warp, but it spits you out before you even entered the Warp. For example you enter the Warp in 2055 January 24th, but when you come out of the Warp the date is 2055 January 21st.
>All those human inquisitors you liked from 500 years ago? Why the frick are they still alive?
Didn't GW retcon the timeskip they originally did at the start of 8th edition? Like the Indominus Crusade is now only a few decades after the fall of Cadia instead of several hundred.
The setting itself was much better when a good portion of it was shrouded in myth and when there was a lot of emphasis on telling your own stories and things like that.
I was listening to some guy talk about new lore about the Lion and how it mentions that Vashtorr is back and he's going to where Guilliman is for the pariah nexus or whatever and it just sounds so fricking boring. It makes the universe sound and feel so tiny when it's the same small collection of characters who never die and can only progress the plot in small, measured steps because it's a product.
It's definitely become more of a product as well but that's nothing new under the sun. Compare the books from earlier editions like the 4th edition rulebook that has terrain making instructions, alternative game systems like kill teams, and even a big section about a grand campaign that they did with all kinds of custom rules to suit a scenario.
Juvenats have been a part of the setting for a while so there's that excuse.
>when there was a lot of emphasis on telling your own stories and things like that.
Who is stopping you from telling your own stories?
>I was listening to some guy talk about new lore about the Lion and how it mentions that Vashtorr is back and he's going to where Guilliman is for the pariah nexus or whatever and it just sounds so fricking boring.
How is that any different than what they used to do which was
>Abaddon is going after Cadia, play some games, see if you can stop him!
>Yarrick is chasing after Ghaz but Orkimedes(lol) is teleporting him!
>It makes the universe sound and feel so tiny when it's the same small collection of characters who never die and can only progress the plot in small, measured steps because it's a product.
It was literally always like this.
>It's definitely become more of a product
Always was.
>books from earlier editions like the 4th edition rulebook that has terrain making instructions,
My guy, times have changed. You can get mountains of this kind of information from Youtube by people who are orders of magnitude better at it that the people at GW. It would be a complete waste of time to compete with that.
>alternative game systems like kill teams
This literally exists
>a grand campaign that they did with all kinds of custom rules to suit a scenario.
Who is stopping you from coming up with custom rules. Not to mention that they have indeed continued publishing this kind of stuff like campaign books.
I swear to god, people just regurgitate this shit over and over without ever thinking about it.
There were other battles that they would showcase with weird, lesser known factions and all that. My point is that the 4th edition rulebook had all of that in one book and more, it's a nice way to engage with the hobby - why does it have to be about competing? Kill Teams exists and it's one of my favourite games, I really like it a lot. I have friends that are more than willing to engage in custom rule shenanigans and things like that which is great.
>My point is that the 4th edition rulebook had all of that in one book and more,
And the current edition has all that and more in different places
>why does it have to be about competing?
Are you under some impression that people didn't compete before? You have some romantic notion about a past that didn't really exist
>Kill Teams exists and it's one of my favourite games, I really like it a lot.
Well, I'm happy for you and all but its continued existence kinda makes the whole "it used to be better because it had kill team" argument pointless.
40k has some serious problems but canards like "you can't tell your own story" or "it has characters that don't die" aren't it.
No, I mean why does GW have to compete with people making tutorials online when the point is to show what you can make in the first place, I have no idea where you were going with that lol. I'm not even arguing that it was better, if anything I was pointing out that it's more of a product than before.
>No, I mean why does GW have to compete with people making tutorials online when the point is to show what you can make in the first place
Because youtube is literally 100% free with mountains of fricking content on how to make your own terrain.
Codexes are not free and they cost money, there is no reason for GW to put any of that shit inside of the book itself when there are other people out there already doing it for free.
Nevermind that people inside this hobby themselves constantly tell the new comers to make their own shit as well, because that IS the essence of the hobby.
>Small, 1k point battle? Time to whip out Angron vs Bobby G, because damn it, I spent too much time painting them to not use them!
This is a scenario that exists only in your head
Bobbert's not quite necessary enough to use in small-point games, but world eaters go nowhere without Angron. The whole codex falls apart without the big angry baby to lean on so if you have the points for him, you bring him instead of anything else even if he's all by himself, it's a frickin' shame.
Jes Goodwin still runs the design studio and he's been around since RT
This thread is about lore, my confused friend. Goodwin barely ever wrote any lore even in the old days, let alone now when everything in GW is super compartmentalized and has to go through three layers of meddling management.
Design studio invents the lore for the models, there is no separate lore department. They completely ignore BL lore and other non-studio lore when making lore for models too, unless the CEO's orders are to make tie-ins.
>Design studio invents the lore for the models, there is no separate lore department.
That is completely false.
>They completely ignore BL lore and other non-studio lore when making lore for models too
No shit, but the model studio and the actual lore guys are not the same group.
It's completely right. There are no "lore guys", the design studio makes the lore, not some nonexistent lore department. You may have heard of IP directors or whatever, those don't invent but just give thumbs up or down whether new lore can be approved as part of the Warhammer 40,000 IP.
No, the design studio makes models, the background writers make the lore, and the rules studio makes the rules, these are all different departments.
Models and model-related lore is made by the studio. Then that is handed over to the codex writers who just make up the rules, and rehash the lore of previous codexes with inclusion of a few timeline entries that shill the new models. That's the design process. GW thinks and has always thought they are a miniature manufacturing company first and foremost.
>Models and model-related lore is made by the studio
Okay show me which models were made by Wade Pryce, Phil Kelly, Andy Hoare, etc.
You probably don't even know who these people are because you don't know shit about GW or its inner workings. Stop pretending.
He is baiting or moronic, just leave him be.
They're codex/white dwarf monkeys, not lore inventors. Jes Goodwin spends as much time with lore as with model design. The eldar lore comes from him, not from Phil Kelly even though it's Kelly's name in the codex.
Completely deranged.
You probably don't even know Jes came up with Yvraine's backstory in addition to sculpting her model. What's really deranged is believing some codex writer who's been in the house for five years gets to have any real input into the lore or that BL typemonkeys like ADB control the lore.
>some codex writer who's been in the house for five years
Yeah who would that be?
>or that BL typemonkeys like ADB control the lore.
There are no undivided daemon princes anymore because of ADB.
>They're codex/white dwarf monkeys, not lore inventors.
You are an actual fricking moron. They are all head background writers of given IPs - 40k, Age of Sigmar, and Specialist Games.
>Jes Goodwin spends as much time with lore as with model design.
No he doesn't.
>The eldar lore comes from him
Bits of Eldar lore come from him, and that was already addressed - he used to do that a long fricking time ago, not in modern day. Most of the lore was laid down by Rick Priestley.
Jes is senior to every one of those and their task is what I've previously described, to insert whatever the design studio hands them into the codex and rehash the old lore around them. Phil Kelly has not come up with the lore for any model that has been released as long as he's worked for GW.
Please list all of the 40k publications which set down the original "old lore" during the first 10-15 years of 40ks existence in which Jes Goodwin is credited as the major contributor. I'll wait.
Doesn't need to be 10 years. Jes is the most senior lore writer of the credited Rogue Trader rulebook contributors remaining at GW. Also WD127, the entire Eldar Lore comes from that and it was Priestley and Goodwin who co-wrote it, and as Priestley is gone from GW so Goodwin has the lore reins now.
I seriously hope that in 2024 no one on /tg/ thinks Matt Ward invented Draigo and the Dreadknight.
Anon that is not how the frick it works, just because he contributed little bits here and there throughout Rogue Trader does not mean his job is as a "lore writer", there are people working at GW with the position of Background Writer and Head Background Writer and that is ALL THEY DO, Goodwin isn't the guy in charge of any of that writing.
>and as Priestley is gone from GW so Goodwin has the lore reins now.
No, he doesn't.
Yes he does. You know who have never written the lore for a model? Phil Kelly, Matt Ward and Robin Cruddace. All GW's "bad nu-lore" has been written and approved by the based oldgays. Major IP-affecting lore shifts like the Indomitus era don't come from some "Background Writers", they're from the board of directors.
>All GW's "bad nu-lore" has been written and approved by the based oldgays
None of those people are around, see
No, Jes Goodwin is not remotely on the level of Priestley, Chambers, etc.
Jes is the most senior lore guy left, Priestley is gone, Jervis is gone and Chambers is gone. The way GW works, their authority is not handed to some newbie "background writer". Gav Thorpe, Phil Kelly, Wade Pryce and whoever held the "loremaster" positions since the 90's were never handed the "powers" of oldgays who left GW, it's in the hands of the remaining oldgays and the directors. The current writers only sell the decisions of the higher ups to the customers.
>Jes is the most senior lore guy left
He's not a lore guy.
>Priestley is gone, Jervis is gone and Chambers is gone
Yeah that's what I just fricking told you, those are the "based oldgays" you tried to claim were still around and approving the nu-lore in this post
can you get your fricking argument straight???
He has no argument he is a troll, do not feed.
Jes is the based oldgay and the most senior lore guy left. Are you actually pretending Phil Kelly or whoever controls the lore because you like Jes' models and don't want to assign him the responsibility for lore? He invented the Ynnari you know. Ynnead was the one Eldar god Jes did not invent (Gav did it when he was a 100% background character with no relation to models) but when they did decide to do stuff with him it was Jes created the Ynnari trio and their background because when you make models the studio takes charge.
NTA but it was already explained to you he is neither a based oldgay, nor is he a lore guy
Goodwin IS a based oldgay, but not a lore guy. At least, not primarily or even really secondarily a lore guy. He's done bits of lore here and there.
>Goodwin IS a based oldgay
He isn't because he made primaris.
I think the setting would be a lot better if they gave total control to Chris Wraight and ADB. Gav Thorpe cant write for shit so I wouldnt trust him to make major decision.s
The only way that's going to happen is for ADB and Wraight to win a lottery and buy themselves into the board of directors.
Priestley for his part pretty much has explicitly said he left because he thought corporate was getting too involved and flanderizing the setting. And that was back in the early 2010s. He hasn't said anything about it now though beyond "I dont work there anymore so I have no opinion on what they're doing now". Which such non-answers from former creativea tend not to be glowing reviews.
It certainly sounds like a polite way of saying he's not very fond of the new stuff.
From what I've heard from a guy who used to be in Eavy Metal this is pretty much how GW works and has worked since almost forever.
Anon, you are clearly demented.
Is Jes the last person left from the early days? Hard to believe he's still there.
>Is Jes the last person left from the early days?
Yeah after Blanche retired in 2023 he is the final holdout.
My take on it (as someone who has played since 1st ed Rogue Trader) is that the old lore was often written so you could use the models you already had in new and interesting ways, or it encouraged you to scratch build or proxy stuff that GW didnt make. Lore today, in contrast, is more superficial and less imagination sparking, a pulp advert focussed mostly on encouraging you to buy the 'latest new thing' that GW is currently selling. It's the difference between stuff made by hobbyists because they loved what they did, and todays corporate driven sales based media.
Look at how chaos has been treated over the years it used to be a threat but now its just nurglings and tentacles. It was visually horror there is none of that now.
You suck, ben.
my take, so you know it might be shit.
oldlore-expansive galaxy with tons of different and fricked up shit going on
newlore-(includes the HH books) focus on singular characters. no longer a massive frick-off universe but a centralised story that makes everything feel small as a result
>didn't read anons fanfic
tfw lorelet
The Horus Heresy book series was a mistake. That’s mostly it.
I think the problem is that at most it should have been 20 books and the siege should have been like 3 or 4. Its almost fricking comical that we got 54 books plus primarch novels and novellas and then on top of that the siege is like 10 books plus 3 novellas.
Too many smelly, dysgenic trannoids trying to morph the game to their grosser than 40k gross visage
>When I think of some GOOD shit 40k lore I honestly think it has to be Fantasy Flight Games
Correct
Dark heresy first edition was published in 2008, that's 16 years ago now, I get to say it's old lore
and it was indeed better
I want big titty dommy demons and evil heavy metal guitars
The very first version of 40k’s setting (like, before GW forced Chaos in) was *very* different and better in a lot of ways (way more original Tyranids, Emperor is alive and explicitly evil, Eldar emphasize pirates instead of craftworlds, space marines aren’t monks, etc).
Marines should be busting space punks again.
Bullshit. The universe of RT is very similar to that of more modern 40k, details of chaos and the warp aside.
>Emperor is alive and explicitly evil
>Eldar emphasize pirates instead of craftworlds
>space marines aren’t monks
None of these things are true. (Tyranids did change, in particular being connected to genestealers and losing zoats. But I'm not sure I'd say they were way more original.)
Go read Rogue Trader (the wargame, not the rpg).
I did, which is why I know your claims are false. For instance the small section on Eldar is literally titled, "The Eldar Race and the Craft-Worlds". Marines live in monasteries. And the Emperor's "body can no longer support life, and his shattered carcass only remains intact because it is held by a spirit itself sustained by the strangest of machinery".
>Emperor is alive and explicitly evil
He never was alive and no he wasn't evil either.
The latter part is 100% a nulore invention.
The Emperor is basically Kim il-Sung with superpowers, but from the best Korean point of view he is not evil.
Oh look, RT covers this as well.
>It would be easy to think of the Emperor as an evil corruption of nature. Yet [...]
Also unless North Korean policy has changed somewhat, Kim il-Sung is not a crippled shell fed souls to power a lighthouse. So that's a pretty weird comparison.
Best Koreans think Kim il-Sung isn't an evil corruption of nature either. They'd be even more hyped about him if he had superpowers like Empra.
Can you even fricking read? That's not written from the Imperial point of view.
And super powers like what? Running a galactic psychic lighthouse?
Best Koreans also think their viewpoint is universal, there's nothing relative about the greatness of great leaders. And yes, psychic powers are superpowers.
You are so full of shit.
Why do morons who have never read Rogue Trader pretend like they read Rogue Trader?
We need Star Child and his Errol Flynn champions to be more prominent in 40k.
Before the Horus Heresy series, a lot more questions were left unanswered. The mystery of the setting gave it a stronger mood of a Dark Age. Shutting the frick up, and not enumerating all the dumbass soap opera details gave the Heresy and the Imperium-Chaos conflict more gravitas.
In general, the old 40k lore more mysterious and laconic; and I think that made it easier to take seriously.
I'll be honest. There are some bits of old Warhammer 40k lore that is right that new 40k lore that is wrong.
The biggest example I can think of is the flanderization of the 30k lore.
With the way that BL has handled the Horus Heresy as a book series and The Siege of Terra, I have honestly been taught that Blanche was right about how the Horus Heresy should have just remained this apocalyptic ruinous war that while known to have happened, the details have been lost to time due to how long ago it was and yet its affects are still felt to the present 40k day.
Took itself less seriously and had less characterwank. Back in the day the biggest character in setting was probably Marneus Calgar who still wasn't that important. Now you have entirely fleshed out primarchs and avatars of eldar death gods being fully fleshed out characters and running around doing shit. Old 40k was more about the setting, modern 40k is more about the canon characters.
I personally like the 3rd/4th ed codexes. It paints a very grim picture of the future, where the golden age of humanity are far far behind, all it's heroes are dead and missing, and they're assailed on all sides and there's no hope. I'm not a fan of Lion coming in to rolfstomp Angron in a wrestling match.
The whole lore thing is really frustrating. It's like watching slice of life anime except in space and everything is awful. Nothing ever happens between editions, they just keep stacking on scenarios that are playing out at the same time. I think they could progress their story a bit and use it as a pivot to sell new models at the same time. Anyway, the fact that everything kind of stays the same has really stagnated the fluff. Everything has been overanalyzed to shit.
40k was ruined. The Horus Heresy was turned from a tragedy of brothers turned upon each other out of paranoia and noble pursuits to autistic chucklefricks being cheaply tricked into the most abhorrent actions by facades a child could see through. The Emperor turned into a massive autist with zero critical thinking skills, and a chuckling insane villainous dictator rather than a hubris ridden hero laid low by the innate flaws of humanity. Oldhammer and the original Heresy story was great, and this was what old 40k was good for. Modern 40k is just a Primarch soap opera with characters so dumbly written I'd scarcely believe a child would make similar mistakes. Moreover they somehow fricked things up so much that the Imperium is a technologically progressing civilization rather than a rotting corpse. All of the themes are turned on their head. It's dead to me forever now.