OOK isn't that bad because you never feel like he has any horrid gimmick moves. Hes just relentlessly fast and hits hard. If he healed on hits and somehow had some gravity defying, spammy anime ability and healed to full health on his second phase, then he would be just as bad as Malenia.
Orphan of kos is a battle which is hard all the way through, he hasn't one or two bullshit attacks that seem to always kill you. He is just tougher, faster, hits harder than most other things in the game, plus the mechanic of his swinging tumor arm gets most people fricked atleast for a couple dozen tries.
Now Malenia is BORING fight, that's the big problem. The fight is fricking BORING cause there is only ONE attack that is a threat at all. You learn Malenias moveset after maybe 10 tries (or faster if you are really smart and cool player) and after that 95% of everytime you die is from ONE ATTACK that is:
Unpredictable
Instakill in almost every situation
Pure trial and error in how to dodge
Actively punishes certain players, for example if you use a heavy weapon and hit her and she for some reason decides to do waterfowl, you are just dead. You are fricking dead. And there is no chance for you as a player to weigh the chances, it just happens sometimes.
All of this leads to a boring fricking slog of a fight and the most effective way to kill her without a cheese tactic is just walking backwards and punishing her attacks where she is least likely to use waterfowl. It isn't exciting, you don't even feel accomplished beating here cause the fight was so fricking badly designed and un-fair
I'll add that I think Malenia is the only unfair boss fromsoft has ever designed.
Fromsoft has a habit of reusing assets and copying their own homework. Malenia is lady Tomoe 100%. Activision probably was weird about what the split would be on a sekiro dlc or fromsoft just straight up didn't like working with activision or who knows what happened behind the scenes. Regardless Tomoe ended up in ER and feels just as out of place as DS3 boss DoH in Sekiro. Every game has these weird holdover idea bosses that clearly came from other games or predict the style of future games. Like lady Maria is just a prototype for every DS3 humanoid boss.
Except when you literally port Malenia into Sekiro she is piss-easy and she doesnt even move like Sekiro bosses in terms of controlling arena space. Like yeah, maybe she is based on Tomoe or any other Sekiro scrapped boss but she is made with Elden Ring battle system in mind and even bullshits this system in very specific ways unique only for her and only for this game, she wasnt just ported, she was fully realized as Elden Ring boss.
Yeah, I can see how Malenia may have started out with a couple ideas taken from Tomoe but as she is now she is an elden ring boss, put Owl in ER and marvel at how moronic a Sekiro boss in ER would be.
That doesn't mean that Tomoe's moveset (what bits of it they had to work with at least) weren't a foundation for Malenia. They could have ported that in, and then made all the changes to make Malenia feel like she was suited for Elden Ring afterward.
plus her attack heal is bullshit as well
you cannot win against her with a high equipment load. you cannot tank her damage.
The lifesteal isn't bullshit, in fact I think it's the best thing about the fight and I wish all bosses had it. You're supposed to get good enough at the fights and avoid taking damage at all, and lifesteal merely punishes that. Tanking isn't a playstyle, it's a cheese, and Malenia exists to counter that cheese.
>using shields is cheese >just exploit i-frames bro
Yes. Holding down a single button to block all incoming damage is easy and anybody can do it. Dodging requires tight timing and understanding of a boss's moveset, as well as taking dodge direction and positioning into account to make a dodge work, and you have to keep up this mental string of steps for the duration of the fight. Sounds like you're just upset that your easy mode crutch doesn't work on an optional superboss.
Are you moronic? You can't "Just dodge" waterfowl dance. You need to first be in a specific position (i.e correct positioning and boring gameplay that you'll only learn after dying many times), and then dodge multiple times in specific directions (which is not intuitive and is just trial and error.)
Alternatively, you can just go for the cheese and equip the strongest greatshield with great magic shield. Still bad design.
Orphan took me more tries than malenia, because orphan is a fair boss that has no cheese bullshit. I got frustrated with malenia and equipped double bleed swords with double seppuku to just stunlock oneshot her, because shes so bullshit.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You're just proving my point. Dodging takes more skill than blocking.
You goddamn moron, go away. Your post is literally saying that armored knights, spellcasters, and everything else that isn't a rollspammer is bad in a fantasy game. Stop fricking posting.
Greatshields let you "tank" a lot against many bosses.
But ER has wierd damage inflation anyway. even at 60 vit and good armor Malenia just needs to waggle her wrist a little and take off 50% of your HP.
You know the attack where she just limply rotates her wrist so that her sword just bounces a little.
I always laugh when that connects and deals like 800DMG.
5 months ago
Anonymous
the bad visual communication probably contributes a lot. Usually Souls bosses are WAY taller than you and their attacks hit visually hard. Compare Radagon's hammer strikes vs. her mallninja flailing.
She looks weak and many of her attacks look like they shouldn't deal as much damage as they do.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Greatshields let you "tank" a lot against many bosses.
That's no reason to consider it a universal strategy. I recon it doesn't protect you from Mogh's blood loss or Hoarah Loux grabs or Radagon's pounding. Either way it allows you to survive Waterfowl so it's valid, the rest is in your hands. Even tanks need to adapt and be flexible enough to survive something beyond basic attacks.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>You know the attack where she just limply rotates her wrist so that her sword just bounces a little.
that attack honestly pisses me off more than the fricking anime flurry bullshit that is waterfowl. that pathetic weak fricking wiggle-waggle-wiggle wrist flail is such a shitty looking attack but it hits so fricking hard.
nta
there is no proof because it's made up schizo shit
same as Demon of Hatred being a reused boss from a different game
literal redditgays making shit up instead of following dataminers saying there's no indication at all that they weren't meant for their respective games
Malenia >uses a katana despite having no connection to the land of reeds >has a prosthetic arm like wolf and sculptor >has drago- I mean scarlet rot >has a young master (miquella) like Tomoe and Wolf >Waterfowl's last bursts have a visual resemblance to Spiral Cloud Passage, From's apology combat art for there being no Tomoe fight
Personally I think it's more likely she was Kingfisher, Orangutan's old partner whose arm got bitten off by the Great Ape, hence the prosthetic. Waterfowl is an obvious hint and the technique resembles leaping from cliff to cliff which is how Orangutan and her trained. Tomoe used Lightning and stuff.
I could see Tomoe doing a huge lightning explosion then making lightning afterimages fight you. It's also possible sculptor's partner and tomoe would've ended up being the same character with the loosey goosey way they write the lore and story
this is such dumb cope. i binge watch streamers vs her and they all say this >ITS JUST ONE ATTACK!
then they get hit by the forward flurry attack every time despite being on malenia attempt #150.
People are so fricking weird how they dont just block "that one attack". Malenia really opened my eyes to how silly gamers are.
The forward flurry is tricky in how it just comes out super fast with zero warning. But it usually doesn't kill you and can be dodged easier by rolling in.
Waterfowl almost always kills, feels like a series of coinflips to dodge, and almost fully heal her when it connects. >People are so fricking weird how they dont just block "that one attack".
You do realize that she heals on block too right? She performs waterfowl often enough that the fight would be impossible if you tried to block it every time since she'd get all her health back.
>She performs waterfowl often enough that the fight would be impossible if you tried to block it every time since she'd get all her health back.
Not really, first time I did the fight I always blocked the first part of it and just dodged the second and third, which is easy to do after blocking the first.
this is just a funny mental block people have. its so ridiculous it actually boggles my mind. she recovers HP equivalent to like 1-2 r1 attacks, its not so bad it makes blocking useless. People even do full blocking with tower shield builds against her.
>Waterfowl almost always kills, feels like a series of coinflips to dodge, and almost fully heal her when it connects.
I used to think this but I now have a 100% survival rate against Waterfowl. You only really need to block the first volley and dodge the rest.
agree malenia is awful but all the elden ring bosses are kind of bad. malenia is just blatantly the laziest "hard boss" they've ever designed. don't have much confidence for the dlc, or anything they make in the future.
>10 tries
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
bro I have more Malenia kills than deaths
whenever you die to a boss you should rethink your entire strategy and game plan
knocking your head on the wall until it falls is not the way to do it
I don't know why you waste your time on this tibetan psychology forum if you're so smart and clever.
You should be on your helicopter travelling between your 6 mansions or something.
You really shouldn't out yourself like this. So long as you aren't fat rolling you can completely dodge your way through a point-blank Waterfowl and it's not all that hard to figure out the timing. Here's a translation for your post: >I rely on strength builds and winning trades to get through bosses but Malenia has an attack which harshly punishes that so I'm going to b***h about how "unfair" she is when in reality I'm just a shitter who got walled by an attack which counters the only strategy I know.
you can just endure waterfowl too, then dodge the last part as endure falls off. so tanky strength builds have an easier time with her. Its the agility cucks who build glass cannon melee who think shes unfair because shes the one boss that hard counters their playstyle unless they dodge perfectly.
>uh, they're just facts
that you copied from a streamer. you didn't even deny it.
some of us actually played the game when it came out instead of waiting for daddy spedrunner to teach us all the tricks.
Just because you were unable to figure things out by yourself doesn't mean others were as incapable as you
Even your dreaded streamers got the knowledge from somewhere, and it didnt come from the secret Fromsoft vaults, it comes from playing the games, playing smart and not sucking
Aren't you required to unlock the camera in order to dodge the attack because otherwise you roll straight back into the attack after dodging?
The developers are moronic, the fact that you have to defend the game with "well it's possible to beat" shows how low the bar is.
>Aren't you required to unlock the camera in order to dodge the attack because otherwise you roll straight back into the attack after dodging?
Wow, look at this cheater! He somehow dodged the attack without removing the target lock!
No moron. You aren't required to frick with the camera.
You said it's fine because the attack is a 360 degree spin, as if it is just a circle when it's a sphere. Now you started to ramble about something else entirely.
No I'm not. Stop trying to pull a gotcha; all it does is expose the fact that you don't have any real arguments. She attacks all around her and the visual effect clearly displays slashes well above her model. You b***hed about the fact that it's a spherical hurtbox yet everything about that fact makes perfect sense. Stop whining.
maybe that was just the early strategy or I misremembered. Either way comments and descriptions seem to indicate that this method is extremely difficult https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiRZED7AJAs&ab_channel=Amir.. Either the only people making guides are morons or your claim that only a moron would be unable to dodge point blank is total bullshit you made up because you're a FROM sycophant
>moving the goalpost
You're a shitter. Accept it and move on. There are multiple consistent methods of dodging Waterfowl. It's just a matter of getting the timing down like literally any other attack in the game.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Is your whole strategy just naming fallacies and hoping I don't know what they mean and that they don't apply at all?
5 months ago
Anonymous
But that's literally what you did. You got proven wrong because you're a fricking moron who doesn't actually know about the game and you pivoted in an attempt to simultaneously save face and make a snarky, backhanded comment.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You still haven't shown an "easy method" that doesn't involve unlocking the camera. So maybe I misremembered and there simply was no easy method, or maybe the easy method is the I remembered, either way you're wrong.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>this desperate
Anon you're done. Just accept it and move on.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Was the core of your argument literally whether or not you could dodge the attack with the camera locked? Even before I brought it up? No, your argument is that the attack is perfectly fair and easy to dodge, which you never demonstrated.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>fallacy
Drop the straw man. Concession accepted.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Is your whole strategy just naming fallacies and hoping I don't know what they mean and that they don't apply at all?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>moron
If you're claiming I'm wrong then point out where I said it's easy to dodge. Cite the post where, in no uncertain terms, I claimed it's easy. If you can not do this you admit to your fallacy and being so fricking stupid that you don't even know what a straw man argument is.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Uh oh. Anon is scared.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Aww. Poor anon finally came to terms with the fact that he's moronic.
The Dodge for point blank waterfowl is a completely ridiculous move that no one who isn't an autistic speedrunner would ever discover on their own let alone execute properly
>this argument again
Why can't you accept that you just suck? Also it's cute that you went back, read that, realized you were wrong so now you're addressing it as a completely different argument because you realized you're moronic.
Good thing you don't need to dodge every hit to survive the attack. The first hit is the trickiest, the last three are freebies once you learn the timing. It's literally just a matter of surviving the initial slashes and that's the easiest part to practice.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, the point is that the most reliable way to dodge the first attack is to just stay away from her entirely, which drags the pacing of the fight to a halt and makes it unfun.
5 months ago
Anonymous
If you choose a safe and easy way to get through an encounter that's on you. Either do that, learn how to survive it in melee range or use one of the numerous cheese strats.
>he fact that you spend 80% of the fight waiting for her to throw out punishable moves
You guys can't be serious, the first phase she is just walking and there are dozens of openings of attack in her moves. The only attacks you have to be cautious of is the fury and the 2nd phase is the summons, everything else is a non issue
>just walking
Fromsoft design since Demons Souls is that an enemy that is "just walking" or is otherwise idling is not safe to attack, and will actively punish doing do.
Love it or hate it, Souls combat since DS3 has been basically glorified turn-based where you are only allowed attack as a punish, not as an independent action.
>Fromsoft design since Demons Souls is that an enemy that is "just walking" or is otherwise idling is not safe to attack,
I mean it allows you to buff yourself and heal or whatever during the first phase.
If she was as aggressive as the 2nd phase in the first I'd understand complaints a bit more
The don't use heavy weapons lmaooo their recovery frames are ass. you're not some Chad knight or guts the black swordman, it takes everything you have to swing a heavy weapon dumbass, of course you get fricked. t. katana/ straight sword chad.
She's a souls boss in elden ring. Even on my literal first attempt never seeing her move before the things that hit me were >waterfowl jumpscare she animation cancelled into >Scarlet aeonia which killed me because I fricked up the roll timing
because outside of those 2 things she's just a souls boss. No weird wind-ups or combo extensions that are random or controlling the arena spacing like actual elden ring bosses, every attack is exactly what you'd expect. I didn't even realize I had hitless her entire phase 1 on my first attempt (outside of 1st waterfowl which I could avoid because I was animation locked from nonstop attacking) because I just instinctually dodged everything. Outside of "that one move" she feels like she's moving in slow motion compared to everything else so I guess her design around one-shots is fair? Margitt is unironically x10 harder because his entire moveset is inconsistent bullshit with an answer to literally everything whereas you get none outside of looping stance breaking
This.
Anyone who says otherwise are PC.ucks who never played the legit masterpiece that is Bloodborne and used cheats to beat Souls games on PC.
Out of all the Soulsbornekiro Ring bosses, Malenia is poorly designed because of Waterfowl.
It as bad if not worse than Dark Souls 2 bosses and that's pretty fricking bad especially on the engine its on.
Water fowl isn't even hard to dodge. On medium roll you can, with a lot of give, dodge the last two strikes of the attack leaving you damaged but not game ending amounts. With a little more precision you can dodge the attack entirely
Melania is hard because she, like a half dozen other Elden Ring bosses, has a penchant for playing very aggressively and with her healing she offers the least room for error. It's why doing the fight properly feels more like a 'dance' than combat because you need to get into rhythm to capitalize on the windows you do get.
Orphan took me 28 tries. Malenia took me 263 tries. Numbers never lie. Either the bosses in these games got way harder over the years, or I've gotten worse at games. Or possibly both
TL;DW:
She has the unique ability to cancel stagger animations and some other BS but she is just cut sekiro content and you're clearly supposed to use summons against her
Bosses not playing by the rules isn't anything new. Her ability to cancel stagger basically amounts to "you can't mindlessly throw out attacks." She always cancels the stagger with a dash, not with an attack, so you always have time to react to it and are only ever punished by it if you attack without thinking. Is it bullshit? That's debatable. Is it unfair? No, because it never puts you in a position where you're guaranteed to take damage unless you put yourself in that position. If she could cancel out of a stagger with an attack that would be objectively bad because there's literally nothing you can do about that but this isn't the case. Malenia probably feels "unfair" to many people because she presents the most opportunities where players can frick themselves over and that means taking accountability for mistakes. People don't want to do that. They want to blame the boss.
>blatant lies
Point out a single lie. She can followup her dash with an attack, yes. She can chain multiple hyperarmor attacks, yes. She can not cancel stagger with an offensive action.
But she can cancel staggers into attacks (the kick to be precise). You knew this if you watched all the videos on the topic.
5 months ago
Anonymous
No, she cancels stagger with a defensive maneuver. That's literally how it's coded in the game. Her dash actively cancels stagger and can be used during stagger. It's effectively the same thing as a CC break cooldown which is present in numerous games.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>she animation cancels
wow fun and fair boss, I don't remember any bosses in DS3 animation cancelling you moronic Black person
5 months ago
Anonymous
>non-argument
I already addressed this. Try harder.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>If you immediately dismantle my claims you don't have an argument
concession accepted vpn schizo
5 months ago
Anonymous
You're not dismantling anything though. You're just whining about a boss who breaks the rules(which is not uncommon, especially for "ultimate" bosses.) If she broke the rules in an unfair way which results in unavoidable damage you'd have a point. That's not what she does though. She breaks the rules in a way which more often puts her in the position to punish players for being too aggressive. You're you're mindlessly mashing R1 you deserve to get punished for it. Nothing she does is unfair. At no point are you ever guaranteed to take damage. Everything she does can be avoided. If you ever get hit by Malenia it is 100% your fault and you could have prevented it.
buddy It's on video. what are you even trying to argue?
>disingenuous
If you're this eager to concede you don't have to jump through hoops to do so. That's not a stagger. Malenia's stagger animation has her lurching to the left(her right.) If you're using a weapon which inflicts light stagger in phase two you simply don't use those long animation attacks. Why would you do that? Again, this is entirely within the player's control. Don't put yourself in that situation. This is a knowledge and skill check.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>lie about game >lose argument
good job vpn schizo, why are you still here though? lol
5 months ago
Anonymous
>doesn't understand game mechanics >claims everything is a lie
Again, if you want to concede you don't have to jump through hoops to do so. Just admit you fricked up because you don't actually know how the game works. It's okay, I educated you on the subject. You can avoid this mistake from now on.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yes you are lying about the game vpn schizo, it's what you do here all day
5 months ago
Anonymous
There's no lie. Learn how the game works and stop being so desperate to pin your mistakes on the game.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yes you are lying about the game vpn schizo, it's what you do here all day
5 months ago
Anonymous
>broken down and has to resort to copy/pasting the same response
I appreciate the concession.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>lose argument and get caught lying immediately >samegay reply and restate argument you already lost >NOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T POST THE SAME THING AGAIN LIKE ME
cry more homosexual
5 months ago
Anonymous
>fallacy >avoiding the argument
Conceding again I see.
5 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but that doesn't make it unfair. You might as well call delaying attacks unfair because hu...w-well no boss in DS1 did that!
5 months ago
Anonymous
Animation cancelling in a souls game to input read you is the definition of unfair
5 months ago
Anonymous
>that doesn't make it unfair.
Yes it does, by definition. Do you not speak English? >You might as well call delaying attacks unfair
They are
Oh, I thought you mean "unfair" as some kind of a negative thing that undermines the boss, turns out you're just saying that it's a normal Souls game thing that you personally have troubles dealing with and that's where you draw the line. Carry on then.
5 months ago
Anonymous
VPN schizo this argument was already lost by you earlier this thread, simply restating the argument you already lost is schizophrenic
5 months ago
Anonymous
>la git gud xD
Cope
5 months ago
Anonymous
don't reply to vpn schizo
5 months ago
Anonymous
>that doesn't make it unfair.
Yes it does, by definition. Do you not speak English? >You might as well call delaying attacks unfair
They are
5 months ago
Anonymous
Don't reply to vpn schizo
5 months ago
Anonymous
The main argument againt the animation cancel is that she's the only one who does it and that it betrays what you have learned throughout the game. >delayed attacks
Not unfair but just very meta. Fromsoft is directly responding to how players adapted over the years and are now adding in an extra heartbeat or two just to frick with the timing. This leads to some very silly shit like margit hovering in the air for a second just to roll catch you.
It just feels very 4th wall breaking that you have to ignore very strong visual tells.
I can't speak for first time players but as someone who got into the series with early DaS taking damage to these delayed attacks feels very different compared to when I was still learning these games. Back then I had to acquire basic timing/reaction skills and now I just have to unlearn and adjust to this new "meta" timing. Doesn't feel very satisfying but this could just be me.
Technically not unfair, just feels cheap.
It's the "can I go to the toilet?" <- "I don't know, CAN you xD?" dynamic. It's funny once.
5 months ago
Anonymous
don't reply to vpn schizo
5 months ago
Anonymous
>it betrays what you have learned throughout the game.
What is this femoid garbage? Have you tried LEARNING SOMETHING NEW? How fricking casual can you be if you're offended by the very notion of a boss requiring anything but the most basic fricking fighting technique to win? And funniest thing is only so-called "Souls veterans" are crying about this. Actual casual players just learn the fight and win, they don't need a whole essay about "akshually I lost because it was unfair" just to feel justified in their playstyle. Seriously, it's like I'm back in 2011 talking to people who physically can't comprehend Souls mechanics like running to the boss fog after death or being invaded if you want to coop. Oh, it's UNFAIR, well tough fricking shit you moronic Black person, call your local journo and cry about lack of easy mode or something. You're the one who's acting cheap, like you're so above playing the game just because you played the previous one so it absolutely HAS to ponder to your experience and never push it beyond its limits. Hardcore gamers my fricking ass.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You can't "learn" input reading and animation cancelling. All speedrunners "learn" in elden shart is what attacks are safe to attack on, that's it. If you actually spent time trying to "learn" what the boss is thinking you quickly realize how shit the design is
5 months ago
Anonymous
>is what attacks are safe to attack on
And you can't do the same? Picking the right moment to attack is a fundamental Souls skill. It means being tactical and deliberate in your attacks and not just spamming them at every opportunity. Are you the same guy who complained that mechanical puppets have strings of 10-second wild strikes he can do nothing about?
5 months ago
Anonymous
why would I want to play a game where the bosses are poorly designed and rely on input reading as a crutch, vpn schizo?
5 months ago
Anonymous
You're asking me why you play this game? Don't play it, I give you my permission. It's okay to be filtered and not play a game you dislike. Go with my blessing child.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>don't play the objectively bad game
okay thanks vpn schizo
5 months ago
Anonymous
>You can't "learn" input reading and animation cancelling.
Yes you can. Are you seriously this moronic? >Try to use attack against Malenia in phase two >realize she's breaking the stagger a countering with a kick >learn not to use attacks with extended animations >quick hits still work perfectly fine and give you opportunity to punish and back out
This is a you problem anon. All you've done is announce to everyone that you're too moronic to handle predictable AI.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I think you're missing the point still.
Animation canceling isn't really a thing in ER bosses but her. It just feels cheap.
Is that so hard to understand?
No one is arguing that she's unbeatable because of that, just that it's less enjoyable.
It's bad visual communication and an error in the game's design.
And before you start pissing your pants again: No one is mad because of this. We can just acknowledge these things without getting into >SEETHE COPE CASUL GIT GUD
arguments.
5 months ago
Anonymous
animation cancelling is probably a thing for every enemy in the game, it's just more noticeable with malenia because they desperately tried to make her harder while keeping the illusion of a fair fight
5 months ago
Anonymous
Sure there are things like Godrick the grafted canceling an animation/getting unbreakable hyperarmor to go into his phase transition "cutscene" but no one takes offense from that.
Melanias stagger cancel can easily be fixed though.
She has 2 stagger animations. One when hit with a heavy attack (starting with x poise dmg) and one when hit with a light attack (below x poise dmg).
The light stagger animation is the one she can cancel. If they just made it so like ANY OTHER FRICKING mob that she doesn't even flinch from light attacks there would be no problem a all.
But I suppose this too is a leftover from Sekiro code.
5 months ago
Anonymous
pretty sure she can cancel any stagger animation into a waterfowl
5 months ago
Anonymous
Not from my knowledge but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Solution: If you're using a weapon which inflicts light stagger you don't use attacks which have a long animation in phase two. Learn and adapt. It's your fault if you're not able to do this.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>adapt to the input reading
or just recognize the game is shit and stop defending it
5 months ago
Anonymous
I don't like input reading but it's something you can adapt to.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Okay so the game is shit and you're wasting your time "learning" a boss which has inconsistent behaviors that change to give the boss an unfair advantage
5 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, no one is saying that it's impossible to work around, just that the visual clues are bad.
How is that so hard to understand?
If there's a hole in the street you can drive around it, doesn't mean that there's supposed to be a hole in the street you numbnut.
5 months ago
Anonymous
This isn't a visual cue though. It's understanding cause and effect. It shouldn't take more than a few mistakes to realize she stops allowing you to punish with certain attacks.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm so smart because I recognize the input reading
so does everybody else in this thread, the argument is is the game even worth playing when it is designed so poorly
5 months ago
Anonymous
>subjectivity
Why are you even bothering to argue over something subjective? You can't be this dumb.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's objectively bad game design vpn schizo, that's why you defend it
5 months ago
Anonymous
>objectively
5 months ago
Anonymous
Correct. A boss in a fromsoft game ignoring its own internal logic and gaining hyper armor and animation cancelling on a HUMANOID is about as dishonest as you can get. Other fromsoft female humanoid bosses could be stunlocked easily which is why fromsoft gave malenia all these get out of jail free cards instead of.. .you know... designing her better
You're just an empty schizo parrot
5 months ago
Anonymous
Every other game fanbase: >wow this boss is so strong it's above even the game's rules, it's time for the ultimate showdown
Soulsbabies: >WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO LEARN SOMETHING NEW???? DID YOU SEE HOW MANY HOURS I HAVE IN DS1?? I SHOULD NOT BE GETTING HIT AT ALL BY THIS POINT I DEMAND EQUAL RIGHTS EQUAL RIIIIIIIIGHTS!!!!!
5 months ago
Anonymous
Like it or not all games (besides DS2) follow their own set of internal logic. A boss will never animation cancel or gain random hyper armor or initiate a combo that only exists for input reading,
5 months ago
Anonymous
The fact that there's a boss that doesn't follow an arbitrary rule you've assigned to "all bosses" doesn't make it unfair. Is it unfair that Asgore destroys the mercy button despite no other monster doing that in the whole game? Is this the level of argumentation you're bringing here?
5 months ago
Anonymous
You're again trying to pin this on player understanding when up until this point a stagger meant something else.
Sure, the player can just understand that this one boss in this one phase does things differently but what this thread has been trying to tell you for an hour is that this means that it's not well designed.
And yes, anon, you can adapt to it. I know. Never has been the point of this whole discussion. The point was that you should not need to and that animation canceling shouldn't have a place in this game (which it doesn't beisdes that one single exception which confirms the rule).
There is nothing more to discuss. I know that you can adapt to it and you now (hopefully) knowthat is a design inconsistency which most people would consider a flaw.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>You're again trying to pin this on player
That's right. I'm pinning it on the player because it is a player issue. Thanks for making this easy.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>the game being design poorly is a player issue
hmm where have I heard this one before
5 months ago
Anonymous
>designed poorly
Explain why using objective reasoning. What does Malenia's rule breaking actually do? It limits your options to punish. That's it. How is this any different than a boss who is designed to be aggressive and doesn't give you a year to wind up a big attack? An aggressive AI and fast combos limits your options to punish. By your logic any enemy that doesn't allow you to respond in any manner of your choosing is objectively bad.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Explain why
already did and you ignored it vpn schizo
Like it or not all games (besides DS2) follow their own set of internal logic. A boss will never animation cancel or gain random hyper armor or initiate a combo that only exists for input reading,
5 months ago
Anonymous
But you didn't. You whined about something you don't like. I realize this may be difficult for you to understand but just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. Most people are taught this and come to terms with this concept as toddlers.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>it's not poor game design if you can beat the game
quintessential vpn schizo post
5 months ago
Anonymous
>fallacy
Another easy concession.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>schizo
why should anybody care about your spam?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>No one is mad because of this
You have a whole thread right here being mad at it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Nobody is mad vpn schizo, you said yourself that people shouldn't play elden shart because it's bad.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>you said yourself
Might come as a surprise to you but this thread isn't just you and me.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Nobody else on this website claims input reading is good game design but vpn schizo
5 months ago
Anonymous
I never claimed such a thing. My reply to you was this
>No one is mad because of this
You have a whole thread right here being mad at it.
And yeah you seem pretty mad if you think anyone who replies to you is one person. Most likely you're just a bot.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>you seem pretty mad
Yeah I'm so mad pointing out how terrible elden ring's game design is, lol
5 months ago
Anonymous
You're overreacting.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe but I'm genuinely flabbergasted by this situation, I'm close to believing it really is some kind of psyop and these are not Souls players at all who complain about completely trivial and petty things like having to adapt to a boss fight.
5 months ago
Anonymous
?si=k5RJhxQcDcnYqtWH&t=1171
buddy It's on video. what are you even trying to argue?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>cancels stagger into kick >somehow this is not animation canceling into an attack
5 months ago
Anonymous
VPN schizo will claim anything isn't true about elden shart
He claimed soreseals were the reason the game balance takes a shit at leyndell for 6 months
Malenia was not cut from Sekiro, lmao.
People datamined the frick out of both games, some gays even had access to internal docs (enemy list) due to being pals with some Namco reps, and they confirmed that there was never a cut boss Tomoe boss.
Malenia just reuses some effects for her waterfowl attack, and atleast one of her kicks is a copypasted attack from Lone Shadows.
That's all it is.
>Malenia was not cut from Sekiro
Nobody said that.
She was designed in accordance with the design principles of that game. The way she functions would not be out of place in Sekiro, the Waterfowl Dance, for instance, is very reminiscent of the Floating Cloud Passage Genichiro uses.
Very average player here (able to finish the games, but mostly by bruteforcing/overleveling the "hard" parts)
Orphan felt fine within the world and the game at large and I could tell I was getting better within a few tries, killed him in a reasonable amount of time after coming very close a few times (maybe around 15 tries, dont quote me on that, this is years ago)
malenia just feels like something you shouldn't be fighting in this game, especially with certain builds. sad as it is, ill have to agree with joseph andersons points here.
I think Malenia is harder if for no other reason than she breaks more or less every established in-game rule that the player and enemies alike had to follow.
Orphan unironically is "hard, but fair" while Malenia is literally playing a different game from the one you're playing.
Usually i'm ok with bossess stressing mechanics but malenia is just a raid boss, you either get a shield or have to learn a chain of precise imputs to avoid an unreasonably punishing move.
She would be a fine humanoid boss if it wasn't for the butterfly dance.
I like both, but I probably prefer Malenia. Orphan of Kos feels like it doesn't really live up to the premise to me, it's a really memorable introduction to see him birthed and then the cutscene ending with a baby crying to hammer in that he's just a child, and then seeing that he's called an orphan pushes it even more, but nothing about the actual fight would have indicated to me that he's a child, he just feels like a rampaging beast in practice which was a bit disappointing. I think the fight could have benefited from something like Sif limping on low health to help give him more character. I love the arena though and the fight is fun even if it doesn't do anything particularly unique.
I don't think the arena is as cool for Malenia and I wasn't that interested in her character even if I think there's plenty to set her up throughout the game. Mechanically I prefer it because, while Orphan of Kos just feels like most other fights in Bloodborne, I think Malenia feels unique in Elden Ring for how easy to stagger she is, which lets you go on the offensive in a way that distinguishes her from a lot of other bosses in the game who can more easily just tank your hits. Aesthetically and atmospherically I think the fight improves a lot in the second phase, I think Scarlet Aeonia looks really cool, but it's probably not as cool as the Orphan fight overall. Malenia being more memorable to actually fight and what I found to be the most interesting thing about Orphan to feel a bit wasted make me prefer Malenia overall though. Ludwig is better than either.
The only reason I even beat her is because she spazzed out and did her Waterfowl on the Mimic instead of me one fight. I considered it fair and fine since I would've lost if she'd done it a second time at any point
>Is it okay to summon mimic during Malenia? I'm beginning to think it is
The entire game was built and balanced around you summoning things. Why would it not be?
Orphan was harder and more challenging
Elden Ring has way more tools for dealing with bosses
Malenia also has incredibly low poise and can be stunlocked very easily
Orphan is just as fast, at a more constant pace. You won't see Orphan slowly circling you open to attack like Malenia does. Malenia is also stunlocked by light attacks unlike Orphan, who can only be poisebroken by well-timed chared R2's, a real challenge on a boss who rushes you and unleashes flurried of constant spammy attacks.
But of course, both fights are trivialized if you learn their patterns and know how to parry. At least Elden Ring lets you use spirit ashes.
I always feel like I've never fought the same version of Malenia as this hypothetical one people talk about. >bro phase one Malenia just slowly walks!
Yeah if you don't press any buttons maybe. If you try to, I don't know, deal damage, then it becomes a DMC combo video starring (you) as the sandbag. >you can stunlock her
Not in my version of the game unless your definition of a "stunlock" is getting one hit of stagger followed instantly by hitstun cancel reposition swipe attack.
The amount of sheer amount of self fellatio when it comes to discussing difficult is silly.
If you think Malenia is easy then you must think every single From game prior is unbearably boring. Just way too easy to be enjoyable. And that means you hate dark souls, which also means you opinion on games is shit. QED.
no anon
you dont get it, you HAVE TO appear super amazing on this anonymous imageboard otherwise u risk getting told to git gud so we all have to appear as extremely talented morons that 1 shot every single boss in the game otherwise your basically /reddit/
I think Malenia is easy even though I struggled with her a lot. Once you get used to her moves she's nothing special (like every other boss, really) but I like Fromsoft games because they're not that hard while they make you feel like you're beating something hard. Difficulty isn't why I play them anyway, it's the exploration, atmosphere and doing different flawed character builds. DeS is still my favorite overall but I play DS1 a lot because it's a good comfort game. My personal favorite "difficult" bosses are Demon Prince, Lady Maria and Sir Alonne.
>Maria
I don't want to dog on you but Maria was so weak that she quickly became a meme because so many players first tried her and few found her truly challenging.
I guess so, it's a "supposedly" difficult fight but I actually struggled with the Living failures more on my first two playthroughs. Still love her, Friede is probably a more refined version of that fight technically but it just doesn't feel the same.
People complain about waterfowl, but that's not even her biggest bullshit.
Fist, the fact that her skills have random hyperarmor and can completely reset her stagger bar if you hit her at the wrong moment, because some of her animations have a priority over getting staggered, because frick you.
Second, the spamable rollcatching triple slash, if you don't do a frame perfect timing, or aren't sufficiently far enough, you WILL get hit.
Lastly, the shit that fricking plagues entire elden ring, the RP walk and wait. The enemies are fricking hardcoded to wait and attack the moment you press the attack button, so that they can trade and come out on top, and Malenia is the worst in this aspect, since she hits like a truck and heals on top of that. Yeah, I sure do love waiting 20 seconds until the boss decides to finally attack, so that I can punish them with 2 hits before they jump back. It's pathetic how obvious it is, I'm always skipping the first waterfowl by running away once she's at 2/3 hp and use some ranged attack to trigger her from the other end of the map. Works every time.
I quickly gave up on the idea on fighting her fairly and cheesed the shit out of her. I'm not wasting time wrestling with artificial difficulty.
>the spamable rollcatching triple slash, if you don't do a frame perfect timing, or aren't sufficiently far enough, you WILL get hit.
just dodge to the side. she only goes forward >the fact that her skills have random hyperarmor
she would be too easy if her attacks with a 3-4 second wind up could be interupted with an R1 >and can completely reset her stagger bar if you hit her at the wrong moment
thats not how it works
>she would be too easy if her attacks with a 3-4 second wind up could be interupted with an R1
Sister Friede handled this far better. Just give her a set, reliable threshold where she tells you to frick off after getting hit x times.
Orphan is easily harder. Malenia is really passive, gets stunlocked easily, has predictable timings (even Waterfowl roughly), once you get used to her moves she's barely a threat if you're playing smart. Orphan was giving me way more troubles just because of how relentless he is.
This. People have spent the last decade going "it's not hard" mostly because they know fromsoft can't program for shit. Now they can just go "heru frick youru, we no program you pray this beta we make money"
Just like Gael before this and Friede before that and Orphan before that and Fume Knight before that and Manus before that, if it keeps people crying "UNFAIR!!" then they're doing everything right.
I bet most players who did eventually beat her did with cheese (frost/bleed spam, mimic tear, summoning other players, spell combos)
I think only a fraction actually beat her with just rolling, dealing phyical damage up close.
Who gives a flying frick how people beat her? This is a game that lets people play with all kinds of weapons, outfits, and magic. Go hunt a deer barehanded, you dumb homosexual.
>I think only a fraction actually beat her with just rolling, dealing phyical damage up close.
This is me. No cheese, no frost, no bleed, no OP ashes of war like hoarfrost, no summons, no rotten breath. Just plain old dodge and attack. Felt amazing btw. If you cheated you are less likely tor respect her fight because you earned nothing.
They haven't but Souls veterans certainly have. It's amazing to see people default to the same excuses people have been using for Souls games for a decade - it's not fair, it's cheap, not hard but tedious, I don't want to learn this bullshit, it's not balanced for my build, you need to cheat to beat it and so on. Just like Skyrim players first encountering O&S back in 2012. Guess we've reached this hardcore playerbase's upper limit. All will be filtered in the end and only the humble will prevail, a tale told by Souls games themselves since the first game.
There's also the fact that Ganker has an aging population that is past their mechanical prime. We are a couple of years away from anons wanting an easy mode because "they work all day" or "have kids to take care of" and can't be bothered to spend multiple attempts on boss fights.
>can't be bothered to spend multiple attempts on boss fights.
Souls fatigue also contributes to this. Sometimes people just burn out and ER was an especially long game only adding to that, I felt it around 80 hours into it. As soon as you go "jesus frick what is it this time" when encountering a hard boss you probably won't have a good time beating it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
This.
Trying an afternoon to beat Orphan, ok.
Trying another to beat Isshin after grinding Demon of Hatred? eh.
Trying to beat Melania without cheesing her after exploring the entirety of the Lands Between? Nah, you win Miyazaki, I'm just gonna summon. I have proven my worth, I'm just tired at this point.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I’m better at the Souls formula than I ever was but Malenia is just an incredibly obnoxious boss and tedious as well since its an endgame area with two health pools.
But the souls veterans are their main fanbase so they won't like if it ever increases.
Of course there is virtually no upper limit to how hard you can make a boss but at some point when only a tiny fraction of players can beat it you shrank down your target audience significantly.
The Souls series was never aimed at super hardcore players, it was just hard enough to get the average person onto the edge of their seat and put in a little more effort than they were used to, especially in the context of around 2008-2012 when DeS and DaS released.
I also don't think O&S and Malenia are in any way comparable and I was around back then.
The whining for O&S had a very good excuse: Many didn't even play DeS before and the playerbase as a whole was generally less skilled.
After more than a decade of the playerbase improving, playing all kinds of souls games and souls likes, "solving" these games encountering a brickwall like Malenia is a completely different beast.
I bet Waterfowl dance hit a physical upper limit to what most players can learn to deal with in a reasonable timeframe. Nothing before that even compares, especially with 10 years+ of experience in the community.
At some point Fromsoft just has to concede that there is an upper limit to the difficulty or just deal with most of the players cheesing (which already happened to malenia).
>encountering a brickwall like Malenia is a completely different beast.
For most players who struggled through every Souls game with dozens of deaths on each endgame boss Malenia is just another hard boss. Waterfowl is this game's rollcatching delayed attacks, it has already been solved multiple ways and it's just a matter of execution. Approach to defeating Malenia is the same as approach to defeating O&S: be patient, play smart, use techniques you've learned online (hugging columns in O&S case) and if all else fails - summon. Did you know O&S is a boss made with summons in mind? It's true, there's two of them so 2v2 is fair and if they weren't FROM wouldn't have put Solaire's sign right next to them. >or just deal with most of the players cheesing (which already happened to malenia).
I'm not sure they consider the tools they've put in the game "cheesing". Their approach is you adjusting the difficulty your own way, this whole "hurr you didn't beat the game" is only a thing on this board. The problems only start when the player overestimates his playstyle and thinks he's above using anything but the most boring basic R1-roll tactics when he's clearly eating dirt time and time again.
FromGames in general have horrible design when it comes to learning anything about the game. Nothing is explained. Like a boss fight and want to replay it? Fricking start the whole game over from scratch then. Want to practice a boss and learn it's movesets? Frick you. Imagine if they had a system like the Skate games where at the press of a button you could reset the move, or had a test arena where you had infinite health and could actually practice dodging waterfell without having to go through the boring tedium of loading in, spawning, fighting the boss, waiting for her to use it, dying, another load screen, repeat, repeat, etc. after you just had to replay the entire fricking game just to get back to her in the first place.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Sekiro has both a guy that trains you on the combat anytime for free and an option to re-fight whatever boss you want.
5 months ago
Anonymous
another reason why Sekiro is better than ER
5 months ago
Anonymous
This is because Souls games aren't just about fighting bosses. The boss is your checkpoint at the end of the level, it doesn't matter how you fight it as long as you win.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>This is because Souls games aren't just about fighting bosses.
Can we say this is still true? Elden Ring has like 2 gimmick bosses out over 100+ bosses.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It could have 0 gimmick bosses and be true, there's plenty more you do in the game aside from just fighting bosses.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Of course, especially true for Elden Ring. There are so many bosses they're just part of the environment, it's a return to the DeS mindset of a boss being a big special mob with a health bar down at the bottom. You find them in the world, in caves, you have to go out at night to encounter some. They're just an extension of your exploration.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Bosses in DeS were specifically meant to be unique encounters that varied from each other. Elden Ring's philosophy is far closer to Ds2 which was filled with garbage trash like Dragonriders and the Prowling Congregation or whatever.
5 months ago
Anonymous
In DaS2 you HAD to fight these trash mobs in order to progress though.
5 months ago
Anonymous
True, Elden Ring is the better game, but the fact remains it feels closer to Ds2 than it does DeS.
I hate Gael, he was the epitome of my biggest issue with Dark Souls 3 and left a sour taste in my mouth with the whole game. The presentation of the fight is excellent, I love the arena, Gael's design is cool and he has a cool moveset, it seems like it has all the makings of a great boss fight, but when I started fighting him all I could think about was what I was actually doing mechanically, which was just rolling, hitting him, rolling, hitting him, rolling, hitting him on and on. Almost the whole game is like that, and it's fine for a while, but being right at the end and having just fought Midir, who I had the same issue with, made it stand out most with Gael and all I could think of is how much of a failure the combat system is to be able to make such a well-presented fight feel so rote and boring.
Why bother doing that though? The issue with how roll heavy Dark Souls can be isn't that it's the only viable way to play, it's just such an efficient and reliable way to play that there's little to encourage you to do anything else. It never feels good when you're switching up tactics not because the new way of playing seems like it could have some unique benefits to it or might work in some special situation, but because the way that would work best is just so boring that you're willing to be unnecessarily risky just to try to force the game into being interesting.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Why bother doing that though?
It cost him way less stamina than spamming roll would. Gael's massive arena really encourages you to run moreso than any other boss area.
It just sounds to me that you're fatigued by the game's combat system by the very final boss. Which is fine, I agree that Sekiro is the more refined game, but I also see Elden Ring as a step backwards.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I was fatigued by the game's combat system by the end of the game, and I'm not trying to deny that. I probably would have enjoyed Gael way more if he were earlier in the game. I actually have the same problem with Sekiro though and I had more trouble with Juzou than any other boss in the game, once I beat him I felt like I had a grasp of the basic mechanics and from there everything just feels reactive and samey which I found boring. I think Elden Ring improved on all that, which surprised me a lot because of how similar it looks and feels to DS3 though. I do think it has bigger issues with consistency than Sekiro or DS3 but I enjoyed its combat more overall.
Why bother doing that though? The issue with how roll heavy Dark Souls can be isn't that it's the only viable way to play, it's just such an efficient and reliable way to play that there's little to encourage you to do anything else. It never feels good when you're switching up tactics not because the new way of playing seems like it could have some unique benefits to it or might work in some special situation, but because the way that would work best is just so boring that you're willing to be unnecessarily risky just to try to force the game into being interesting.
I was fatigued by the game's combat system by the end of the game, and I'm not trying to deny that. I probably would have enjoyed Gael way more if he were earlier in the game. I actually have the same problem with Sekiro though and I had more trouble with Juzou than any other boss in the game, once I beat him I felt like I had a grasp of the basic mechanics and from there everything just feels reactive and samey which I found boring. I think Elden Ring improved on all that, which surprised me a lot because of how similar it looks and feels to DS3 though. I do think it has bigger issues with consistency than Sekiro or DS3 but I enjoyed its combat more overall.
>dickripped DS2troony violently crying about 3kino with the same buzzwords for the 5000th time
still not convincing anybody you desperate dickripped lunatic
no matter which kino(DeS, DS1, DS3, ER) you dilate about
stay mad, stay rotting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7-Al4rIgZQ
Skill issue
digits confirm
btw anon, you are talking to the resident DS2troony
the mentally ill homosexual with the septic stinkditch always dilates this pretend schizo shit about rolling, even though everyone knows it's wrong
xhe's been mindbroken by xis troonycoffin game being invalidated, and routinely makes bait threads about every Soulskino to try and tear them down/makes bait threads to fellate the troonycoffin cashin sequel everyone hates
listen i hate ds2 as well but you've gotta calm down man
5 months ago
Anonymous
>p-pls stop nooticing....
stay mad
I prefer all those games, including DS3, to DS2, I just think the combat in DS3 is too simplistic for its length and the kinds of bosses it mostly has.
I prefer all those games, including DS3, to DS2, I just think the combat in DS3 is too simplistic for its length and the kinds of bosses it mostly has.
Gael and Friede aren't bullshit though. They are certainly bad bosses, un-fun and worse than anything in DS1, but there's no bullshit or artificial difficulty involved in them.
Gael and Orphan were peak soulskino
Friede is shit just because of her second phase
Manus scares me so I'm never fighting him again and Fume Knight is easy
Malenia really ain't shit these days. They nerfed her a lot. You can stagger her out of pretty much anything and then apply pic rel. Bring fire jars to reset frostbite for extra stank on the cheese.
Orphan is a good boss because it's fair, it just hits hard and doesn't die too soon, you learn its moveset you beat it and nothing it does is too hard to avoid normally
Matroonia is the epitome of garbage souls boss design - multiple interlaced levels of cheating, moronic damage and fricking healing off it (and the rune version of it you get is garbage because frick you lol), have to know literally every way it can cheat to not get instacomboed, have a whole one mandatory way to avoid a guaranteed kill special attack boss can cheat into and also everything in second phase deals rot because frick you. It's that kind of boss you just cheese and never touch again
I really doubt most anons have played Bloodborne, but Orphan is a great fight with a lot to learn and understand and lots of room for creativity
Melania is just dogshit, she's either standing around doing nothing (the entire flower phase is basically completely free) or throwing out her dipshit instakill combo
I thought valiant gargoyles are bullshit too.
That poison breath was unnecessary. Hard to see on the water surface and ticks for way too much damage. Also their movesets are way too jumpy/mobile.
DaS gargoyles was the same idea but perfected it already.
I struggled with them on my first playthrough, but I had an easy enough time on the second and third. I think they nerfed them. I think the poison breath itself doing damage was unnecessary though, I think them just breathing poison and it doing no damage on its own and just poisoning you instead would have been fine.
I don't play souls games for the challenge, OOK is at around the limit of difficulty I can still find enjoyable. If it wasn't for the ways in which you can cheese Malenia I would have probably disliked fighting her, but Tiche made it a cakewalk
You didn't counter the boss' full moveset. You won by luck and did not have an answer for all their abilities. You, by definition did not beat the boss.
Your image needs to be adjusted. There are people who cheese the boss and play on easy mode who can still say yes to every one of those. It needs to be more specific and/or restrictive, so here's a better version I made that accounts for those.
This is too restrictive. >playing passively and baiting out safe-to-punish moves
This is a valid tactic if you are learning a boss. You can't be expected to go toe-to-toe all the time >Did you alter your usual build or playstyle
I can kinda give you this but sometimes you just have to. I was using holy weapons against Malenia the first 40 or so attempts before realizing that she's resistant. I stuck to it as long as I could but ultimately used a more neutral (not supereffective) weapon instead.
Also min-maxing your build for a boss over progressive attempt is incredibly fun as you feel yourself lasting longer and getting better mechanically. This is only if you independently min-max rather than slap on cookie-cutter meta build. >did you search for outside help
Meh. I bet you Waterfowl forced even the most hardened believers of this rule to reconsider. It's not a move I would've figured out how to dodge with a ton more attempts. >did you boost your defensive or evasive capabilities
Completely valid tactic same as boosting attack through abilities.
Who the frick are you? I'm continuing the discussion here to a relevant topic. Nothing in that image is overtly baity enough to disregard the whole thing. It raises some good points.
It's not too restrictive, because aside from using jump attacks that sometimes opened an opportunity to riposte her, I can't say yes to any one of those things in the image, and I never felt underpowered or like I was severely gimping myself either.
>start a boss for the first time >end up getting a lot of lucky openings without really seeing its moveset >start playing sloppy on purpose >feel a sigh of relief when I die so I can try again without luck
Why yes, I did beat the boss.
Peak vidya is using the tools you are given to master your play style and therefore the game. Sure you can bumrush a Devil May Cry game but using all your moves and chaining the proper combos is that much sweeter.
Malenia. Waterfowl Dance is stupid bullshit, everything else that she does isn't that hard to dodge and there are tons of Ashes that will stunlock her to death
About to start DS3 today, any fun fights like the Throne Defenders from DS2? I know there's some multi-man fights in ER but i'm saving that. Hoping to get my shit pushed in this time instead in getting lucky and having one of them getting stuck on the other kneeling allowing me to heal and beat them like 2nd try, it was still cool
There's an amazing multi-boss fight in the second DLC, it's worth the wait. Plus some fights have phases where you fight multiple entities, for the lack of a better word, including one where just like Throne Defenders one will attempt to ressurect another when you kill him. DS3 overall isn't too hard until the last stretch of the game and the DLCs, that's where the real meat is.
That entire encounter was bad. I could see if the second one drops down when the other one dies but the first walks over while you attack it and you get gangraped to death.
The cutoff is exactly halfway through. Not only that but the first shark runs over towards the second one once injured enough, giving you time to prepare. And if that wasn't enough you see the second shark while climbing down the ladder on the ceiling.
Kos is much more challenging, like bloodborne itself, but Malenia is worse because it has disgusting combat mechanics that break the rules of the game.
Orphan of Kos felt balanced and took me about 20-30 attempts to beat without any "tricks" meanwhile Malenia felt like a boss from a wrong game (Sekiro, maybe even Bloodborne), I used cheesy shit, various non-human summons, and it still took me +50 tries to get her.
Malenia, people always post about how she's fair but honestly she just isn't fun. >can cancel her own animations to block/parry >can cancel her own animations to dash away >people always post people dabbing on first form malenia(EVEN I CAN DO THAT moronS)
honestly, she just tested my patience and that's already my weakest skill, the fight is honestly just not fun but the same could be said for any boss fight in Elden ring except for Mohg and Morgott >died more to red wolf of radagon than malenia
>Malenia, people always post about how she's fair but honestly she just isn't fun.
This is an opinion I can understand. Anyone claiming she's "unfair" is just a shitter who can't adapt. If the argument is that it makes the fight less fun than it could be I won't refute that, though it is heavily subjective. Personally I enjoy some variables.
I think you're missing the point still.
Animation canceling isn't really a thing in ER bosses but her. It just feels cheap.
Is that so hard to understand?
No one is arguing that she's unbeatable because of that, just that it's less enjoyable.
It's bad visual communication and an error in the game's design.
And before you start pissing your pants again: No one is mad because of this. We can just acknowledge these things without getting into >SEETHE COPE CASUL GIT GUD
arguments.
I'm not missing any point. All I've said is that she isn't unfair because she does not have any way to guarantee damage. If you ever get hit by Malenia it's because you put yourself in a situation to get hit. It is 100% your fault. You did something you shouldn't have done, whether that be using an attack with a long animation or mistiming a dodge. I haven't argued against anything so subjective as how "fun" it makes the fight because that would be fricking stupid.
For sure, I also think Elden Ring just isn't for me. Too many moving body parts that are too highly detailed, it just doesn't mesh well with me, and while memorization has always been a skill it really feels like they doubled down on how many moves NPC's can do that you have to memorize the timing for because you can't roll on reaction to anything.(Except for those few specific moves that come out faster so you HAVE to roll on reaction or just not be in the position in the first place.)
I always had a fool proof strategy of run away in a circle to bait lunge attacks, go for jump attack, repeat.
waterfowl is unfair because it is an instakill that you have to learn to survive. it's not up for debate. they designed waterfowl with the intent that absolutely nobody could possibly survive malenia first try. second phase is unfair because like a lot of the shit bosses in this game half the difficulty is seeing what she's doing through the particle effects blocking half the screen.
>waterfowl is unfair because it is an instakill that you have to learn to survive.
First of all that's not true. Even at an appropriate level(~100-130) and zero armor equipped you can survive multiple hits of the combo. If you frick up too much you die.
Secondly... you're trying to say it's unfair because you have to learn the fight. You're a fricking moron.
I'm saying it's unfair because the circumstance that people are complaining about was deliberately engineered, ie "I can fight her perfectly and then she just instakills me with waterfowl". it's supposed to be an attack that walls 90% of players by itself. there's nothing like that in the previous games, just like there's nothing comparable to mohg's nihil. elden ring's boss design is distinctly different from the way these games used to be, and I don't like it.
>I'm saying it's unfair because the circumstance that people are complaining about was deliberately engineered
Delayed attacks were deliberately engineered to give enemies an edge over players but there's nothing unfair about them. At worst you can say they look fricking dumb because they completely shatter any sense of weight or realism of many attacks.
Something being an intentional design choice does not make it inherently bad or unfair. Yes, it's a very dangerous attack that walls many players. There are multiple ways to get around it though. An example of something unfair would be getting ambushed by three Fiery Hounds in the Tower of Babil and they Scorch you to death before you have a chance to do anything.
5 months ago
Anonymous
delayed attacks are unfair because fromsoft deliberately doesn't tell you how they work, they don't tell you how anything works in their shitty games, lol
5 months ago
Anonymous
>fromsoft deliberately doesn't tell you how they work
Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how they work after seeing it once and if you're up against an unknown enemy you should be playing cautiously anyway so you're likely to see it happen before you're in any real danger.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how they work
Source? how do the delayed attacks in elden shart work vpn schizo?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>how do the delayed attacks in elden shart work
They hit you after you think they'd hit. You know, because they're delayed. Thank you for admitting you're brain damaged and couldn't figure this out on your own.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>They hit you after you think they'd hit
what does this even mean vpn schizo
5 months ago
Anonymous
Why do you assume you deserve to be told how anything works huh? Who the frick are you?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Something being an intentional design choice does not make it inherently bad or unfair
no, what makes it inherently bad is that the challenge of the boss is almost entirely encapsulated into a single attack, and what makes it unfair is that they did that on purpose. I don't really care to split hairs about the definition of "unfair". I think malenia sucks and she would suck if she didn't have the things that make her "unfair". This isn't a situation of "she would be great but these things ruin it". She's a crappy boss with cheap low effort bullshit added to make her hard.
5 months ago
Anonymous
What does your opinion have to do with anything? >I don't really care to split hairs about the definition of "unfair".
You better not because by your own admission your definition of unfair is "I dislike it", completely worthless.
5 months ago
Anonymous
what do I care what you think about the worth of anything? who are you? some worthless Ganker troll.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>called out >immediately goes into defensive backlash mode
Stop being moronic and accept that the game isn't for you.
5 months ago
Anonymous
what are you talking about? I've played every souls game starting with demon's souls. I've beat every boss in elden ring multiple times, and I've come to the conclusion that it's subpar. my opinion matters as much as anyone's, and I would say more than yours.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You unironically think Malenia is unfair and you've been whining about her repeatedly. You've outed yourself as having an opinion worth nothing because you're not mentally mature enough to understand that not liking something doesn't mean it's unfair.
5 months ago
Anonymous
vpn schizo you're a Black person
5 months ago
Anonymous
and you're an autistic loser who thinks everyone else has to agree with your definition of what makes something fair or not.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You're saying "agree" as if this is something up for debate. It's not. There's nothing unfair about Malenia and you're a shitter for whining about her so much.
5 months ago
Anonymous
If you have nothing to say do the smart thing and shut up. Nobody cares whether or not you like or dislike something.
>I don't like it.
And here we have the real reason for the argument. Just say you don't like it, no need to construct a whole imaginary "unfair" argument around having such a basic opinion. Nobody thinks your pride is on the line in this argument about things that people who enjoy the fight simply learn in a few tries and it stops being an issue altogether. Just like all other attacks and mechanics that weren't there in previous Souls games and especially for people whose first was ER and they never encountered any mechanics before it. Souls games are always a battle between the combat designer and the player, it will continue to evolve beyond this. It's only up to the player to step up and evolve with it. Bosses don't play fair and players don't play fair. Some don't like it and it's fine.
5 months ago
Anonymous
schizoid
5 months ago
Anonymous
nice wall of text moron, except my point the entire time has been that I don't like her, don't find her fun, think she's poorly designed, etc. you're the one putting so much stock in these words like "unfair", "cheap", "cheater", etc. and imagining that I must be fuming about it, but they're just descriptive terms. the reality is that I just think elden ring sucks in general, not that the game is "unfair".
You didn't counter the boss' full moveset. You won by luck and did not have an answer for all their abilities. You, by definition did not beat the boss.
again, it's not my job to make the boss challenging.
Melania by far. It’s not even close. Orphan you can learn easily and first phase is a joke. Malenia is so difficult to learn and her one move you really need to learn is so unforgiving it just kills you if you frick up.
there's nothing wrong with input reading. I really like champion gundyr and the way he shoulder checks you if you even think about healing. malenia is just a shit boss. even if you took the bullshit away, she would just be boring, which is probably why they added all the bullshit. it feels like they were trying really hard to make the next "hardest boss ever", but they failed, so they just bolted on the bullshit to force her to be hard.
Maria is cool, but way too easy. Malenia has some bullshit to her, but was overall a more enjoyable fight despite the presentation not being on par with Maria.
Maria being a turn-based fight with zero dangers is the reason Malenia exists. She's correcting the mistake of From thinking that giving a humanoid boss no advantages over the player is fair, because the player cheats and input-reads constantly making the fight inherently biased in his favor.
>Malenia was designed for Sekiro.
no she wasn't, schizo
Malenia was not cut from Sekiro, lmao.
People datamined the frick out of both games, some gays even had access to internal docs (enemy list) due to being pals with some Namco reps, and they confirmed that there was never a cut boss Tomoe boss.
Malenia just reuses some effects for her waterfowl attack, and atleast one of her kicks is a copypasted attack from Lone Shadows.
That's all it is.
Oh no, a fight would take half a minute longer, the horror. I guess I'd have to bait and punish her openers two more times than I would've if I used status effects!
Orphan was not as interesting of a fight, for me. It felt more like luckswing when he'd be attacking me and just missing while I was attacking him at the same time and accidentally moving around his swings. Malenia felt more like each attack had to be calculated/countered and luck had less to do with it.
>he doesn't understand basic animation principles
Not even worth a (You). Go back to talking about how she's "unfair." That somehow made you look less moronic than what you're doing now.
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work >immediately fail to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
When I fought Orphan after most recently directly after finishing ER, i killed him on my second attempt. Pretty much all the bosses near the end of ER are harder and also have gay bullshit i hate
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work >immediately fail to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work >immediately fail to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work >immediately fails to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work >immediately fail to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
i never figured out how to deal with the clone attack in phase 2 personally
the first few clones she makes stick around after their first attack and warp across the map from offscreen to rollcatch you trying to dodge the last clones
maybe i was too far away or too close i dunno didnt get enough phase 2 fights to study the move out
at least you can fight malenia unlike maliketh who spends all of phase 2 in the fricking sky spamming projectiles and sick nasty flips
thank frick he is a glass cannon
god the last stretch of bosses really were shitty werent they
I played the whole game up to Malketh the way I wanted, as a two-handed STR build
then I got to that stupid homosexual and it was just like okay whatever and I looked up the dual homosexualry ice cheese that everyone was using in PVP, instantly made me go from respecting the game to just wanting it over with
Yes. You'll also notice the sword has an additional hitbox.
I don't understand, how is it that a 9 year old game has the best hitboxes, did they lost the knowledge? Did a completely different team made bloodborne?
Yes, and? All this means is that you can't jump it unless you're on the edge which makes sense considering the visual clearly displays slashes well above Malenia.
Next attempt?
5 months ago
Anonymous
You said it's fine because the attack is a 360 degree spin, as if it is just a circle when it's a sphere. Now you started to ramble about something else entirely.
DeS, DaS, Bloodborne, Sekiro all felt fair in that if you fricked up it was either a natural mistake, getting too greedy, hesitating or a mechanic/ability that gets you off guard. I like ER but if Gascoigne were in this he’d give no indication he abides by the games rules or has a stamina bar. He’d be flailing around doing triple flips and tossing daggers at you and then comboing into an AOE shockwave.
Sphere corresponds to the visual indication in game when the afterimages of the sword swipes happens. Unlike something like Dark Souls 2 where you could get hit by phantom attacks.
Well yes it's a weaboo trope. We the player can track certain movements but the implication is that she's moving so fast that there are numerous other strikes occuring. Thats why she performs a 360 attack without even moving at the end of the Art.
>poorly defined >visual effect is perfectly clear
Why are there so many people in this thread who are desperate to out themselves as shitters who will use any excuse to blame the game for their personal shortcomings?
It isn't each swing individually defined, it's like a globe or sphere appears around her. That's all I'm saying. You're way too caught up in the whole "ELDEN RING IS A HARD GAME" when it's literally just finding something like bleed, rot, or some powerful ash of war that goes with your build.
Orphan is hard because you fight him at 12 fps
Malenia is hard because every mistake you make (take damage) means the fight will take longer to finish (lifesteal).
Both are huge bullet sponges anyway.
>I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella, and I have never known defeat. >Well except that one time where I was losing and then coughed and shitted and farted everywhere and caused an ecological disaster and my allies had to drag me back home, and while I was gone a deformed gay pedophile kidnapped my twin brother to rape in his blood realm.
1. Blind swordsman killed her the first time, one of the talismans mentions this. He also defeated the Rot God and wasn’t a Tarnished.
2. Radahn forced her into a corner and she once again bloomed in Caelid.
3. Tarnished kills her another time.
4. Then another time after shes a fully empowered Emperyean of Rot.
The God of Rot is sealed under the Lake of Rot. >Though born into the accursed rot, when the young girl encountered her mentor and his flowing blade, she gained wings of unparalleled strength.
The only time she gains wings is when she dies and blooms into another form. He owned her and she learned from this, training under him.
Malenia is in part why I hope Shadows of the Erdtree is the swansong of traditional soulslikes for FromSoft
Since Dark Souls 3 it's been an arms race of From making faster bosses with more delayed attacks and players getting better. But now with Elden Ring you're mostly dodging really long fast combos and sneaking in a few hits. It's a limit of the Dark Souls style and I hope future From games diverge as much as Sekiro and Armored Core VI did
I kept hearing that Malenia is sooo impossible yet I beat her at like 3rd attempt. Summoning 2 other players btw. Solo she would be pretty hard indeed.
Both phases? I don't believe you it took at least a minute unless you can attack her during aeonia safely with it. I wouldn't know though I've never used rivers of blood
the explosion does a lot of damage but if you avoid that the lingering damage it does isn't that much and you can get right on her and slap her rotting cheeks
Orphan I look forward to every BB run.
Malenia I cheese with summons and broken tools.
ER shits the bed in its final areas, hopefully DLC will fix this.
What Elden Ring seriously lacks is a good duo boss. There's nothing on the level of O&S, Darklurker, Elana + Velstadt, Demon Princes, or Friede and Ariandel
Really shame about Astel. I get that it's a species so there's more of them but it still would have been better if it was a unique fight.
it wasn't until after beating the game that i learned that Orphan Of Kos was apparently one of the hardest bosses in the entire souls genre for a bunch of people. this dude gave me little to no trouble at all, and it wasn't even memorable.
this fricker kicked my ass numerous times though.
It really depends on the build and the weapons of choice. Some of the supposedly hard bosses I found to be super easy but then with a different build you might get unpleasantly surprised. It's not a given but it happens.
The dungeon Rom and the hotdog are the hardest for me. The Living Failures also catch me off guard sometimes.
>Smough is the easiest enemy in the game just above a basic hollow and ornstein is a janky spammer with weird hit boxes so they just balance out to a pretty easy but tedious where the gimmick is not being infuriated by Super ornsteins jank hit boxes or falling asleep during super smough >A single boss that has a very inconsistent attack where it splits itself and leaves itself completely vulnerable is a "duo boss" >See above >I never played their game
Frick duo bosses. Not to mention we got plenty of gankfests like 6 imps + a statue, dual crucible knights, etc but we also got the godskin duo (actually 3 of them at the least). Any fight thats not a 1v1 is ass. I mean most 1v1s suck too but duo fights can never be good because they're either inherently unfair and bullshit or inherently unfair and way too easy so its just tedious extra health
waterfoul is the only legitimate unfair attack in the entire fromsoft modern catalog; a sekiro move reliant on the parry put in a game that doesn't have it
it wasn't until after beating the game that i learned that Orphan Of Kos was apparently one of the hardest bosses in the entire souls genre for a bunch of people. this dude gave me little to no trouble at all, and it wasn't even memorable.
I accidentally finished the game before doing the DLC which meant I had to rush to it in NG+. Laurence was BY FAR the hardest boss in the game and took me an incredible number of tries to beat. He's a culprit of the spastic attack box playstyle and you can ignore that if you have appropriate hp (I didn't). The second hardest boss was Ludwig followed by...The two sharkmen in the well. Orphan was 4th.
Kos isn't even the hardest boss in ToH, Ludwig and Lawrence are noticeably more difficult, and this is even if you avoid parrying Orphan which makes him a lot easier.
The best fights are the gimmick ones. Rykard is one of the few times on elden ring that I could actually say I was having fun from beginning to end because shooting light beams with giant spear is cool as shit
Malenia should have just been mypha 2.0 with a giant super scarlet rot pool that constantly deals damage to you and heals her. No waterfowl, no healing on hits, just you vs rot
Man I don’t wanna flood the thread with this essay. Beat these games like 20 times, done RL1/BL4 on both, cloudsaved to refight them a ton, helped others beat them or bully them, etc. Here is the shortest version of my thoughts >Kos is better >Kos is the best fight they ever made >Kos perfectly concludes everything Bloodborne had been teaching you about aggression up to that point >He’s the natural progression from “aggressive but forgiving” Maria, Kos is “aggressive and havel” >Malenia is great and takes pretty good advantage of Elden Ring’s new/revised mechanics >It’s clear she was designed to be the hardest boss ever outside of Sekiro >She’s like Rykard, as in she’s evolution of a fight established in previous souls games (Storm King for Rykard, dex woman for Malenia) >Unlike Rykard who had two great phases (outside of the earthquake attack in phase one which 99% of you cannot dodge) and surpassed the predecessors, Malenia is only great in her first phase >Her second phase is heavily flawed and is just “ok” >This drops her down from an A tier fight to a high B tier fight >Kos is S rank alongside 3 other bosses
I don’t have time to explain why I don’t like malenia’s 2nd phase but those who’ve fought her and gotten good, really good, at the fight will know why. I’ll just say “inconsistency”, that’s all.
Malenia's second phase is an extension of her first. She has some extra swings or added explosions after her moves which reduces your openings. Her damage intake is still the same and so are her stagger weaknesses.
Are there morons UNIRONICALLY claiming that Kos is harder than Malenia?
Kos is easy as frick to parry, you can even shoot blindly when he spergs out and you have a good chance of getting a lucky parry
most disappointing boss I ever fought with how much he was hyped up
Chained ogre
Haven't played Bloodborne, since Soíny decided to lock it forever in it's shit machine, so i'm gonna say Gael
Ok, DPS/YMS
is Gael really considered a difficult boss? I know no one irl who had trouble with him
my 5 year old little brother clocked these games and beat these two without even trying
and he had a blindfold on and the cat ran over his controller and he was fat rolling
And then the entire bus stood up and clapped.
An entire bus clapped his 5 year old brother?
OOK isn't that bad because you never feel like he has any horrid gimmick moves. Hes just relentlessly fast and hits hard. If he healed on hits and somehow had some gravity defying, spammy anime ability and healed to full health on his second phase, then he would be just as bad as Malenia.
Easy Malenia.
Orphan of kos is a battle which is hard all the way through, he hasn't one or two bullshit attacks that seem to always kill you. He is just tougher, faster, hits harder than most other things in the game, plus the mechanic of his swinging tumor arm gets most people fricked atleast for a couple dozen tries.
Now Malenia is BORING fight, that's the big problem. The fight is fricking BORING cause there is only ONE attack that is a threat at all. You learn Malenias moveset after maybe 10 tries (or faster if you are really smart and cool player) and after that 95% of everytime you die is from ONE ATTACK that is:
Unpredictable
Instakill in almost every situation
Pure trial and error in how to dodge
Actively punishes certain players, for example if you use a heavy weapon and hit her and she for some reason decides to do waterfowl, you are just dead. You are fricking dead. And there is no chance for you as a player to weigh the chances, it just happens sometimes.
All of this leads to a boring fricking slog of a fight and the most effective way to kill her without a cheese tactic is just walking backwards and punishing her attacks where she is least likely to use waterfowl. It isn't exciting, you don't even feel accomplished beating here cause the fight was so fricking badly designed and un-fair
I'll add that I think Malenia is the only unfair boss fromsoft has ever designed.
Fromsoft has a habit of reusing assets and copying their own homework. Malenia is lady Tomoe 100%. Activision probably was weird about what the split would be on a sekiro dlc or fromsoft just straight up didn't like working with activision or who knows what happened behind the scenes. Regardless Tomoe ended up in ER and feels just as out of place as DS3 boss DoH in Sekiro. Every game has these weird holdover idea bosses that clearly came from other games or predict the style of future games. Like lady Maria is just a prototype for every DS3 humanoid boss.
Except when you literally port Malenia into Sekiro she is piss-easy and she doesnt even move like Sekiro bosses in terms of controlling arena space. Like yeah, maybe she is based on Tomoe or any other Sekiro scrapped boss but she is made with Elden Ring battle system in mind and even bullshits this system in very specific ways unique only for her and only for this game, she wasnt just ported, she was fully realized as Elden Ring boss.
Yeah, I can see how Malenia may have started out with a couple ideas taken from Tomoe but as she is now she is an elden ring boss, put Owl in ER and marvel at how moronic a Sekiro boss in ER would be.
>Fromsoft has a habit of reusing assets and copying their own homework.
Literally all game devs do this.
That doesn't mean that Tomoe's moveset (what bits of it they had to work with at least) weren't a foundation for Malenia. They could have ported that in, and then made all the changes to make Malenia feel like she was suited for Elden Ring afterward.
The lifesteal isn't bullshit, in fact I think it's the best thing about the fight and I wish all bosses had it. You're supposed to get good enough at the fights and avoid taking damage at all, and lifesteal merely punishes that. Tanking isn't a playstyle, it's a cheese, and Malenia exists to counter that cheese.
>just don't get hit
>source: i am very smart
Yes. Holding down a single button to block all incoming damage is easy and anybody can do it. Dodging requires tight timing and understanding of a boss's moveset, as well as taking dodge direction and positioning into account to make a dodge work, and you have to keep up this mental string of steps for the duration of the fight. Sounds like you're just upset that your easy mode crutch doesn't work on an optional superboss.
Are you moronic? You can't "Just dodge" waterfowl dance. You need to first be in a specific position (i.e correct positioning and boring gameplay that you'll only learn after dying many times), and then dodge multiple times in specific directions (which is not intuitive and is just trial and error.)
Alternatively, you can just go for the cheese and equip the strongest greatshield with great magic shield. Still bad design.
Orphan took me more tries than malenia, because orphan is a fair boss that has no cheese bullshit. I got frustrated with malenia and equipped double bleed swords with double seppuku to just stunlock oneshot her, because shes so bullshit.
You're just proving my point. Dodging takes more skill than blocking.
>using shields is cheese
>just exploit i-frames bro
Rot exist to that but chinks thought it need more bullshit
You goddamn moron, go away. Your post is literally saying that armored knights, spellcasters, and everything else that isn't a rollspammer is bad in a fantasy game. Stop fricking posting.
Buddy he's clearly trolling you, are you like 15 or so?
First time seeing someone pretending to have an shit opinion to trigger you?
Armored knights and spellcasters both rollspam. Nobody plays this game facetanking the damage.
Greatshields let you "tank" a lot against many bosses.
But ER has wierd damage inflation anyway. even at 60 vit and good armor Malenia just needs to waggle her wrist a little and take off 50% of your HP.
You know the attack where she just limply rotates her wrist so that her sword just bounces a little.
I always laugh when that connects and deals like 800DMG.
the bad visual communication probably contributes a lot. Usually Souls bosses are WAY taller than you and their attacks hit visually hard. Compare Radagon's hammer strikes vs. her mallninja flailing.
She looks weak and many of her attacks look like they shouldn't deal as much damage as they do.
>Greatshields let you "tank" a lot against many bosses.
That's no reason to consider it a universal strategy. I recon it doesn't protect you from Mogh's blood loss or Hoarah Loux grabs or Radagon's pounding. Either way it allows you to survive Waterfowl so it's valid, the rest is in your hands. Even tanks need to adapt and be flexible enough to survive something beyond basic attacks.
>You know the attack where she just limply rotates her wrist so that her sword just bounces a little.
that attack honestly pisses me off more than the fricking anime flurry bullshit that is waterfowl. that pathetic weak fricking wiggle-waggle-wiggle wrist flail is such a shitty looking attack but it hits so fricking hard.
devs: add shields to the game
"you didn't beat the game gays": shields are cheese
bruh
>tomoe
Damn didnt think of this. Would’ve been based in Sekiro
>Malenia is lady Tomoe 100%
Any proof?
nta
there is no proof because it's made up schizo shit
same as Demon of Hatred being a reused boss from a different game
literal redditgays making shit up instead of following dataminers saying there's no indication at all that they weren't meant for their respective games
I know it's a bullshit claim, their movesets are nothing alike and bare no similarities whatsoever.
Malenia
>uses a katana despite having no connection to the land of reeds
>has a prosthetic arm like wolf and sculptor
>has drago- I mean scarlet rot
>has a young master (miquella) like Tomoe and Wolf
>Waterfowl's last bursts have a visual resemblance to Spiral Cloud Passage, From's apology combat art for there being no Tomoe fight
Personally I think it's more likely she was Kingfisher, Orangutan's old partner whose arm got bitten off by the Great Ape, hence the prosthetic. Waterfowl is an obvious hint and the technique resembles leaping from cliff to cliff which is how Orangutan and her trained. Tomoe used Lightning and stuff.
I could see Tomoe doing a huge lightning explosion then making lightning afterimages fight you. It's also possible sculptor's partner and tomoe would've ended up being the same character with the loosey goosey way they write the lore and story
plus her attack heal is bullshit as well
you cannot win against her with a high equipment load. you cannot tank her damage.
this is such dumb cope. i binge watch streamers vs her and they all say this
>ITS JUST ONE ATTACK!
then they get hit by the forward flurry attack every time despite being on malenia attempt #150.
People are so fricking weird how they dont just block "that one attack". Malenia really opened my eyes to how silly gamers are.
most of the time it really is just that one attack to be fair
The forward flurry is tricky in how it just comes out super fast with zero warning. But it usually doesn't kill you and can be dodged easier by rolling in.
Waterfowl almost always kills, feels like a series of coinflips to dodge, and almost fully heal her when it connects.
>People are so fricking weird how they dont just block "that one attack".
You do realize that she heals on block too right? She performs waterfowl often enough that the fight would be impossible if you tried to block it every time since she'd get all her health back.
>She performs waterfowl often enough that the fight would be impossible if you tried to block it every time since she'd get all her health back.
Not really, first time I did the fight I always blocked the first part of it and just dodged the second and third, which is easy to do after blocking the first.
this is just a funny mental block people have. its so ridiculous it actually boggles my mind. she recovers HP equivalent to like 1-2 r1 attacks, its not so bad it makes blocking useless. People even do full blocking with tower shield builds against her.
logistically she should not recover a single point of hp from blocking at all
>player heals like 20 times
>everything is fine
>boss heals a tiny amount once
>uncontrollable seething and spazzing occurs
>Player has X hp
>Boss has 20*X
Asylum demon hands posted this
>Waterfowl almost always kills, feels like a series of coinflips to dodge, and almost fully heal her when it connects.
I used to think this but I now have a 100% survival rate against Waterfowl. You only really need to block the first volley and dodge the rest.
>uh just block!
>oh, you used a shield, you didn't beat le game.
You wish you were a shill, but you actually do it for free.
Seems easy enough to me.
That final animation was almost intimate, like damn maybe he should have tapped the rotussy if they got that close and shw was already naked
agree malenia is awful but all the elden ring bosses are kind of bad. malenia is just blatantly the laziest "hard boss" they've ever designed. don't have much confidence for the dlc, or anything they make in the future.
>10 tries
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
bro I have more Malenia kills than deaths
whenever you die to a boss you should rethink your entire strategy and game plan
knocking your head on the wall until it falls is not the way to do it
moron
I don't know why you waste your time on this tibetan psychology forum if you're so smart and clever.
You should be on your helicopter travelling between your 6 mansions or something.
You really shouldn't out yourself like this. So long as you aren't fat rolling you can completely dodge your way through a point-blank Waterfowl and it's not all that hard to figure out the timing. Here's a translation for your post:
>I rely on strength builds and winning trades to get through bosses but Malenia has an attack which harshly punishes that so I'm going to b***h about how "unfair" she is when in reality I'm just a shitter who got walled by an attack which counters the only strategy I know.
you can just endure waterfowl too, then dodge the last part as endure falls off. so tanky strength builds have an easier time with her. Its the agility cucks who build glass cannon melee who think shes unfair because shes the one boss that hard counters their playstyle unless they dodge perfectly.
here's a translation for your post
>I'm a zoomshitter who watches streamers play the game and pretends the tech I copy from them is my own invention.
>states facts
>uh.. uh... z-z-zoomer!
Please apply yourself next time.
>uh, they're just facts
that you copied from a streamer. you didn't even deny it.
some of us actually played the game when it came out instead of waiting for daddy spedrunner to teach us all the tricks.
Dodging an attack in a Souls game is "tech" now?
dodging waterfowl is, walkthrough follower.
>admits to being unable to figure out how to dodge a few hits in succession
Thanks for the concession.
Just because you were unable to figure things out by yourself doesn't mean others were as incapable as you
Even your dreaded streamers got the knowledge from somewhere, and it didnt come from the secret Fromsoft vaults, it comes from playing the games, playing smart and not sucking
unless you can post any evidence of yourself beating malenia effortlessly with your incredible skills in the launch window, shove it up your ass.
>no counter argument
Aren't you required to unlock the camera in order to dodge the attack because otherwise you roll straight back into the attack after dodging?
The developers are moronic, the fact that you have to defend the game with "well it's possible to beat" shows how low the bar is.
>fallacy
Stop straw manning if you want to be taken seriously, moron.
>fallacy! Straw man!
Wow great rebuttal moron
>Aren't you required to unlock the camera in order to dodge the attack because otherwise you roll straight back into the attack after dodging?
Wow, look at this cheater! He somehow dodged the attack without removing the target lock!
No moron. You aren't required to frick with the camera.
No I'm not. Stop trying to pull a gotcha; all it does is expose the fact that you don't have any real arguments. She attacks all around her and the visual effect clearly displays slashes well above her model. You b***hed about the fact that it's a spherical hurtbox yet everything about that fact makes perfect sense. Stop whining.
>No I'm not
performs a 360 spin
has a 360 degree hurtbox
>still trying to pull the gotcha angle
>still no actual retort
Concession accepted. Thanks for being so easy.
Correct, it was never an argument you were wrong the whole time.
>i-i-i win!
Concession remains accepted.
maybe that was just the early strategy or I misremembered. Either way comments and descriptions seem to indicate that this method is extremely difficult https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiRZED7AJAs&ab_channel=Amir.. Either the only people making guides are morons or your claim that only a moron would be unable to dodge point blank is total bullshit you made up because you're a FROM sycophant
>moving the goalpost
You're a shitter. Accept it and move on. There are multiple consistent methods of dodging Waterfowl. It's just a matter of getting the timing down like literally any other attack in the game.
Is your whole strategy just naming fallacies and hoping I don't know what they mean and that they don't apply at all?
But that's literally what you did. You got proven wrong because you're a fricking moron who doesn't actually know about the game and you pivoted in an attempt to simultaneously save face and make a snarky, backhanded comment.
You still haven't shown an "easy method" that doesn't involve unlocking the camera. So maybe I misremembered and there simply was no easy method, or maybe the easy method is the I remembered, either way you're wrong.
>this desperate
Anon you're done. Just accept it and move on.
Was the core of your argument literally whether or not you could dodge the attack with the camera locked? Even before I brought it up? No, your argument is that the attack is perfectly fair and easy to dodge, which you never demonstrated.
>fallacy
Drop the straw man. Concession accepted.
>moron
If you're claiming I'm wrong then point out where I said it's easy to dodge. Cite the post where, in no uncertain terms, I claimed it's easy. If you can not do this you admit to your fallacy and being so fricking stupid that you don't even know what a straw man argument is.
Uh oh. Anon is scared.
Aww. Poor anon finally came to terms with the fact that he's moronic.
The Dodge for point blank waterfowl is a completely ridiculous move that no one who isn't an autistic speedrunner would ever discover on their own let alone execute properly
Even the speedrunner who showcased it admitted it was ridiculous
>this argument again
Why can't you accept that you just suck? Also it's cute that you went back, read that, realized you were wrong so now you're addressing it as a completely different argument because you realized you're moronic.
Even let me solo her said it took him 300+ tries to dodge it reliably and can't do it 100% of the time without fail
Good thing you don't need to dodge every hit to survive the attack. The first hit is the trickiest, the last three are freebies once you learn the timing. It's literally just a matter of surviving the initial slashes and that's the easiest part to practice.
Yes, the point is that the most reliable way to dodge the first attack is to just stay away from her entirely, which drags the pacing of the fight to a halt and makes it unfun.
If you choose a safe and easy way to get through an encounter that's on you. Either do that, learn how to survive it in melee range or use one of the numerous cheese strats.
This. After beating Orphan of Kos I felt pride. After beating Malenia I was just glad it was over.
>I was just glad it was over
this was basically all of sekiro
and yeah malenia is boring.
>I'll add that I think Malenia is the only unfair boss fromsoft has ever designed.
*shockwaves u*
based
The fact that you spend 80% of the fight waiting for her to throw out punishable moves is insanely boring as well
Waiting? You can just bait her attacks and punish them immediately. Her leg kick for example often doesn't even require dodging.
>he fact that you spend 80% of the fight waiting for her to throw out punishable moves
You guys can't be serious, the first phase she is just walking and there are dozens of openings of attack in her moves. The only attacks you have to be cautious of is the fury and the 2nd phase is the summons, everything else is a non issue
>just walking
Fromsoft design since Demons Souls is that an enemy that is "just walking" or is otherwise idling is not safe to attack, and will actively punish doing do.
Love it or hate it, Souls combat since DS3 has been basically glorified turn-based where you are only allowed attack as a punish, not as an independent action.
>Fromsoft design since Demons Souls is that an enemy that is "just walking" or is otherwise idling is not safe to attack,
I mean it allows you to buff yourself and heal or whatever during the first phase.
If she was as aggressive as the 2nd phase in the first I'd understand complaints a bit more
Facts
This. But zoomers like to see their favorite streamers die to her and make funny rage faces so say hi to the future of FS boss design.
If you have a Medium Shield you can just block it.
>block it
>she regains the last minute of damage you dealt to her
>can instantly use waterfoul again
awesome
She regains like two hits worth of health at most from a full block.
The don't use heavy weapons lmaooo their recovery frames are ass. you're not some Chad knight or guts the black swordman, it takes everything you have to swing a heavy weapon dumbass, of course you get fricked. t. katana/ straight sword chad.
Finally a good take on Ganker i only defeated this prostitute to get the achievement never fought her again on my other runs
She's a souls boss in elden ring. Even on my literal first attempt never seeing her move before the things that hit me were
>waterfowl jumpscare she animation cancelled into
>Scarlet aeonia which killed me because I fricked up the roll timing
because outside of those 2 things she's just a souls boss. No weird wind-ups or combo extensions that are random or controlling the arena spacing like actual elden ring bosses, every attack is exactly what you'd expect. I didn't even realize I had hitless her entire phase 1 on my first attempt (outside of 1st waterfowl which I could avoid because I was animation locked from nonstop attacking) because I just instinctually dodged everything. Outside of "that one move" she feels like she's moving in slow motion compared to everything else so I guess her design around one-shots is fair? Margitt is unironically x10 harder because his entire moveset is inconsistent bullshit with an answer to literally everything whereas you get none outside of looping stance breaking
This.
Anyone who says otherwise are PC.ucks who never played the legit masterpiece that is Bloodborne and used cheats to beat Souls games on PC.
Out of all the Soulsbornekiro Ring bosses, Malenia is poorly designed because of Waterfowl.
It as bad if not worse than Dark Souls 2 bosses and that's pretty fricking bad especially on the engine its on.
Water fowl isn't even hard to dodge. On medium roll you can, with a lot of give, dodge the last two strikes of the attack leaving you damaged but not game ending amounts. With a little more precision you can dodge the attack entirely
Melania is hard because she, like a half dozen other Elden Ring bosses, has a penchant for playing very aggressively and with her healing she offers the least room for error. It's why doing the fight properly feels more like a 'dance' than combat because you need to get into rhythm to capitalize on the windows you do get.
Glock saint isshin is the best from boss
DSP beat Isshin on his first try
And? It's still a good boss. Best =/= harder
Did you?
orphan is only hard because the game is in 15 fps
or maybe your build is fricked and you didn't level skill
Orphan took me 28 tries. Malenia took me 263 tries. Numbers never lie. Either the bosses in these games got way harder over the years, or I've gotten worse at games. Or possibly both
or from is adding bullshit to bosses that make the games shittier
Nah, she literally just cheats
?si=u5bAMqQUJdvJwiOj
TL;DW:
She has the unique ability to cancel stagger animations and some other BS but she is just cut sekiro content and you're clearly supposed to use summons against her
>you're clearly supposed to use summons against her
Or you could just learn how to play the game.
Using the game's mechanics to beat her is learning the game.
>the devs let me switch to easy mode so it's okay to use it
There are no difficulty modes in ER. You didn't even play the game.
Oh you're moronic, sorry for replying.
>Or you could just learn how to play the game.
So use summons? That's what he said.
Bosses not playing by the rules isn't anything new. Her ability to cancel stagger basically amounts to "you can't mindlessly throw out attacks." She always cancels the stagger with a dash, not with an attack, so you always have time to react to it and are only ever punished by it if you attack without thinking. Is it bullshit? That's debatable. Is it unfair? No, because it never puts you in a position where you're guaranteed to take damage unless you put yourself in that position. If she could cancel out of a stagger with an attack that would be objectively bad because there's literally nothing you can do about that but this isn't the case. Malenia probably feels "unfair" to many people because she presents the most opportunities where players can frick themselves over and that means taking accountability for mistakes. People don't want to do that. They want to blame the boss.
>blatant lies followed by incoherent rambling
not going to read
>blatant lies
Point out a single lie. She can followup her dash with an attack, yes. She can chain multiple hyperarmor attacks, yes. She can not cancel stagger with an offensive action.
I'll dismantle your argument and lies if you answer if you're VPN schizo
Check out this dude's channel. It's been literally proven via datamining on video that she cheats the mechanics, there's nothing to discuss.
Anon my response is to the video. I watched it. Learn to read.
But she can cancel staggers into attacks (the kick to be precise). You knew this if you watched all the videos on the topic.
No, she cancels stagger with a defensive maneuver. That's literally how it's coded in the game. Her dash actively cancels stagger and can be used during stagger. It's effectively the same thing as a CC break cooldown which is present in numerous games.
>she animation cancels
wow fun and fair boss, I don't remember any bosses in DS3 animation cancelling you moronic Black person
>non-argument
I already addressed this. Try harder.
>If you immediately dismantle my claims you don't have an argument
concession accepted vpn schizo
You're not dismantling anything though. You're just whining about a boss who breaks the rules(which is not uncommon, especially for "ultimate" bosses.) If she broke the rules in an unfair way which results in unavoidable damage you'd have a point. That's not what she does though. She breaks the rules in a way which more often puts her in the position to punish players for being too aggressive. You're you're mindlessly mashing R1 you deserve to get punished for it. Nothing she does is unfair. At no point are you ever guaranteed to take damage. Everything she does can be avoided. If you ever get hit by Malenia it is 100% your fault and you could have prevented it.
>disingenuous
If you're this eager to concede you don't have to jump through hoops to do so. That's not a stagger. Malenia's stagger animation has her lurching to the left(her right.) If you're using a weapon which inflicts light stagger in phase two you simply don't use those long animation attacks. Why would you do that? Again, this is entirely within the player's control. Don't put yourself in that situation. This is a knowledge and skill check.
>lie about game
>lose argument
good job vpn schizo, why are you still here though? lol
>doesn't understand game mechanics
>claims everything is a lie
Again, if you want to concede you don't have to jump through hoops to do so. Just admit you fricked up because you don't actually know how the game works. It's okay, I educated you on the subject. You can avoid this mistake from now on.
Yes you are lying about the game vpn schizo, it's what you do here all day
There's no lie. Learn how the game works and stop being so desperate to pin your mistakes on the game.
Yes you are lying about the game vpn schizo, it's what you do here all day
>broken down and has to resort to copy/pasting the same response
I appreciate the concession.
>lose argument and get caught lying immediately
>samegay reply and restate argument you already lost
>NOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T POST THE SAME THING AGAIN LIKE ME
cry more homosexual
>fallacy
>avoiding the argument
Conceding again I see.
NTA but that doesn't make it unfair. You might as well call delaying attacks unfair because hu...w-well no boss in DS1 did that!
Animation cancelling in a souls game to input read you is the definition of unfair
Oh, I thought you mean "unfair" as some kind of a negative thing that undermines the boss, turns out you're just saying that it's a normal Souls game thing that you personally have troubles dealing with and that's where you draw the line. Carry on then.
VPN schizo this argument was already lost by you earlier this thread, simply restating the argument you already lost is schizophrenic
>la git gud xD
Cope
don't reply to vpn schizo
>that doesn't make it unfair.
Yes it does, by definition. Do you not speak English?
>You might as well call delaying attacks unfair
They are
Don't reply to vpn schizo
The main argument againt the animation cancel is that she's the only one who does it and that it betrays what you have learned throughout the game.
>delayed attacks
Not unfair but just very meta. Fromsoft is directly responding to how players adapted over the years and are now adding in an extra heartbeat or two just to frick with the timing. This leads to some very silly shit like margit hovering in the air for a second just to roll catch you.
It just feels very 4th wall breaking that you have to ignore very strong visual tells.
I can't speak for first time players but as someone who got into the series with early DaS taking damage to these delayed attacks feels very different compared to when I was still learning these games. Back then I had to acquire basic timing/reaction skills and now I just have to unlearn and adjust to this new "meta" timing. Doesn't feel very satisfying but this could just be me.
Technically not unfair, just feels cheap.
It's the "can I go to the toilet?" <- "I don't know, CAN you xD?" dynamic. It's funny once.
don't reply to vpn schizo
>it betrays what you have learned throughout the game.
What is this femoid garbage? Have you tried LEARNING SOMETHING NEW? How fricking casual can you be if you're offended by the very notion of a boss requiring anything but the most basic fricking fighting technique to win? And funniest thing is only so-called "Souls veterans" are crying about this. Actual casual players just learn the fight and win, they don't need a whole essay about "akshually I lost because it was unfair" just to feel justified in their playstyle. Seriously, it's like I'm back in 2011 talking to people who physically can't comprehend Souls mechanics like running to the boss fog after death or being invaded if you want to coop. Oh, it's UNFAIR, well tough fricking shit you moronic Black person, call your local journo and cry about lack of easy mode or something. You're the one who's acting cheap, like you're so above playing the game just because you played the previous one so it absolutely HAS to ponder to your experience and never push it beyond its limits. Hardcore gamers my fricking ass.
You can't "learn" input reading and animation cancelling. All speedrunners "learn" in elden shart is what attacks are safe to attack on, that's it. If you actually spent time trying to "learn" what the boss is thinking you quickly realize how shit the design is
>is what attacks are safe to attack on
And you can't do the same? Picking the right moment to attack is a fundamental Souls skill. It means being tactical and deliberate in your attacks and not just spamming them at every opportunity. Are you the same guy who complained that mechanical puppets have strings of 10-second wild strikes he can do nothing about?
why would I want to play a game where the bosses are poorly designed and rely on input reading as a crutch, vpn schizo?
You're asking me why you play this game? Don't play it, I give you my permission. It's okay to be filtered and not play a game you dislike. Go with my blessing child.
>don't play the objectively bad game
okay thanks vpn schizo
>You can't "learn" input reading and animation cancelling.
Yes you can. Are you seriously this moronic?
>Try to use attack against Malenia in phase two
>realize she's breaking the stagger a countering with a kick
>learn not to use attacks with extended animations
>quick hits still work perfectly fine and give you opportunity to punish and back out
This is a you problem anon. All you've done is announce to everyone that you're too moronic to handle predictable AI.
I think you're missing the point still.
Animation canceling isn't really a thing in ER bosses but her. It just feels cheap.
Is that so hard to understand?
No one is arguing that she's unbeatable because of that, just that it's less enjoyable.
It's bad visual communication and an error in the game's design.
And before you start pissing your pants again: No one is mad because of this. We can just acknowledge these things without getting into
>SEETHE COPE CASUL GIT GUD
arguments.
animation cancelling is probably a thing for every enemy in the game, it's just more noticeable with malenia because they desperately tried to make her harder while keeping the illusion of a fair fight
Sure there are things like Godrick the grafted canceling an animation/getting unbreakable hyperarmor to go into his phase transition "cutscene" but no one takes offense from that.
Melanias stagger cancel can easily be fixed though.
She has 2 stagger animations. One when hit with a heavy attack (starting with x poise dmg) and one when hit with a light attack (below x poise dmg).
The light stagger animation is the one she can cancel. If they just made it so like ANY OTHER FRICKING mob that she doesn't even flinch from light attacks there would be no problem a all.
But I suppose this too is a leftover from Sekiro code.
pretty sure she can cancel any stagger animation into a waterfowl
Not from my knowledge but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
Solution: If you're using a weapon which inflicts light stagger you don't use attacks which have a long animation in phase two. Learn and adapt. It's your fault if you're not able to do this.
>adapt to the input reading
or just recognize the game is shit and stop defending it
I don't like input reading but it's something you can adapt to.
Okay so the game is shit and you're wasting your time "learning" a boss which has inconsistent behaviors that change to give the boss an unfair advantage
Anon, no one is saying that it's impossible to work around, just that the visual clues are bad.
How is that so hard to understand?
If there's a hole in the street you can drive around it, doesn't mean that there's supposed to be a hole in the street you numbnut.
This isn't a visual cue though. It's understanding cause and effect. It shouldn't take more than a few mistakes to realize she stops allowing you to punish with certain attacks.
>I'm so smart because I recognize the input reading
so does everybody else in this thread, the argument is is the game even worth playing when it is designed so poorly
>subjectivity
Why are you even bothering to argue over something subjective? You can't be this dumb.
It's objectively bad game design vpn schizo, that's why you defend it
>objectively
Correct. A boss in a fromsoft game ignoring its own internal logic and gaining hyper armor and animation cancelling on a HUMANOID is about as dishonest as you can get. Other fromsoft female humanoid bosses could be stunlocked easily which is why fromsoft gave malenia all these get out of jail free cards instead of.. .you know... designing her better
You're just an empty schizo parrot
Every other game fanbase:
>wow this boss is so strong it's above even the game's rules, it's time for the ultimate showdown
Soulsbabies:
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO LEARN SOMETHING NEW???? DID YOU SEE HOW MANY HOURS I HAVE IN DS1?? I SHOULD NOT BE GETTING HIT AT ALL BY THIS POINT I DEMAND EQUAL RIGHTS EQUAL RIIIIIIIIGHTS!!!!!
Like it or not all games (besides DS2) follow their own set of internal logic. A boss will never animation cancel or gain random hyper armor or initiate a combo that only exists for input reading,
The fact that there's a boss that doesn't follow an arbitrary rule you've assigned to "all bosses" doesn't make it unfair. Is it unfair that Asgore destroys the mercy button despite no other monster doing that in the whole game? Is this the level of argumentation you're bringing here?
You're again trying to pin this on player understanding when up until this point a stagger meant something else.
Sure, the player can just understand that this one boss in this one phase does things differently but what this thread has been trying to tell you for an hour is that this means that it's not well designed.
And yes, anon, you can adapt to it. I know. Never has been the point of this whole discussion. The point was that you should not need to and that animation canceling shouldn't have a place in this game (which it doesn't beisdes that one single exception which confirms the rule).
There is nothing more to discuss. I know that you can adapt to it and you now (hopefully) knowthat is a design inconsistency which most people would consider a flaw.
>You're again trying to pin this on player
That's right. I'm pinning it on the player because it is a player issue. Thanks for making this easy.
>the game being design poorly is a player issue
hmm where have I heard this one before
>designed poorly
Explain why using objective reasoning. What does Malenia's rule breaking actually do? It limits your options to punish. That's it. How is this any different than a boss who is designed to be aggressive and doesn't give you a year to wind up a big attack? An aggressive AI and fast combos limits your options to punish. By your logic any enemy that doesn't allow you to respond in any manner of your choosing is objectively bad.
>Explain why
already did and you ignored it vpn schizo
Like it or not all games (besides DS2) follow their own set of internal logic. A boss will never animation cancel or gain random hyper armor or initiate a combo that only exists for input reading,
But you didn't. You whined about something you don't like. I realize this may be difficult for you to understand but just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. Most people are taught this and come to terms with this concept as toddlers.
>it's not poor game design if you can beat the game
quintessential vpn schizo post
>fallacy
Another easy concession.
>schizo
why should anybody care about your spam?
>No one is mad because of this
You have a whole thread right here being mad at it.
Nobody is mad vpn schizo, you said yourself that people shouldn't play elden shart because it's bad.
>you said yourself
Might come as a surprise to you but this thread isn't just you and me.
Nobody else on this website claims input reading is good game design but vpn schizo
I never claimed such a thing. My reply to you was this
And yeah you seem pretty mad if you think anyone who replies to you is one person. Most likely you're just a bot.
>you seem pretty mad
Yeah I'm so mad pointing out how terrible elden ring's game design is, lol
You're overreacting.
Maybe but I'm genuinely flabbergasted by this situation, I'm close to believing it really is some kind of psyop and these are not Souls players at all who complain about completely trivial and petty things like having to adapt to a boss fight.
?si=k5RJhxQcDcnYqtWH&t=1171
buddy It's on video. what are you even trying to argue?
>cancels stagger into kick
>somehow this is not animation canceling into an attack
VPN schizo will claim anything isn't true about elden shart
He claimed soreseals were the reason the game balance takes a shit at leyndell for 6 months
>but she is just cut sekiro content
she is not
you're moronic
Malenia was not cut from Sekiro, lmao.
People datamined the frick out of both games, some gays even had access to internal docs (enemy list) due to being pals with some Namco reps, and they confirmed that there was never a cut boss Tomoe boss.
Malenia just reuses some effects for her waterfowl attack, and atleast one of her kicks is a copypasted attack from Lone Shadows.
That's all it is.
80% of the enemies in elden shart are reskins and reused cut bosses
>no counterargument regarding the actual topic
cheers, Malenia is not a cut boss from Sekiro
get fricked
>Malenia was not cut from Sekiro
Nobody said that.
She was designed in accordance with the design principles of that game. The way she functions would not be out of place in Sekiro, the Waterfowl Dance, for instance, is very reminiscent of the Floating Cloud Passage Genichiro uses.
Very average player here (able to finish the games, but mostly by bruteforcing/overleveling the "hard" parts)
Orphan felt fine within the world and the game at large and I could tell I was getting better within a few tries, killed him in a reasonable amount of time after coming very close a few times (maybe around 15 tries, dont quote me on that, this is years ago)
malenia just feels like something you shouldn't be fighting in this game, especially with certain builds. sad as it is, ill have to agree with joseph andersons points here.
Most reasonable anon
Orphan was harder by far. Malenia has one threatening move and if you know how to dodge it she's totally manageable.
I think Malenia is harder if for no other reason than she breaks more or less every established in-game rule that the player and enemies alike had to follow.
Orphan unironically is "hard, but fair" while Malenia is literally playing a different game from the one you're playing.
Malenia no bossfight used infinite rally besides this b***h
Usually i'm ok with bossess stressing mechanics but malenia is just a raid boss, you either get a shield or have to learn a chain of precise imputs to avoid an unreasonably punishing move.
She would be a fine humanoid boss if it wasn't for the butterfly dance.
I like both, but I probably prefer Malenia. Orphan of Kos feels like it doesn't really live up to the premise to me, it's a really memorable introduction to see him birthed and then the cutscene ending with a baby crying to hammer in that he's just a child, and then seeing that he's called an orphan pushes it even more, but nothing about the actual fight would have indicated to me that he's a child, he just feels like a rampaging beast in practice which was a bit disappointing. I think the fight could have benefited from something like Sif limping on low health to help give him more character. I love the arena though and the fight is fun even if it doesn't do anything particularly unique.
I don't think the arena is as cool for Malenia and I wasn't that interested in her character even if I think there's plenty to set her up throughout the game. Mechanically I prefer it because, while Orphan of Kos just feels like most other fights in Bloodborne, I think Malenia feels unique in Elden Ring for how easy to stagger she is, which lets you go on the offensive in a way that distinguishes her from a lot of other bosses in the game who can more easily just tank your hits. Aesthetically and atmospherically I think the fight improves a lot in the second phase, I think Scarlet Aeonia looks really cool, but it's probably not as cool as the Orphan fight overall. Malenia being more memorable to actually fight and what I found to be the most interesting thing about Orphan to feel a bit wasted make me prefer Malenia overall though. Ludwig is better than either.
I can tell you haven't played Sekiro if you're so easily impressed by Malenia
I have played Sekiro, but I don't see what that has to do with me enjoying Malena in Elden Ring.
Orphan wasn't really that hard.
Malenia also isn't very hard, but they gave her an instant win button that makes it the worst fight in Souls history.
Orphan was way more enjoyable, this isnt even a contest
Is it okay to summon mimic during Malenia? I'm beginning to think it is
It is absolutely never okay to use Mimic in Elden Ring, at any point. It's a well-established fact that you won't beat the game.
The only reason I even beat her is because she spazzed out and did her Waterfowl on the Mimic instead of me one fight. I considered it fair and fine since I would've lost if she'd done it a second time at any point
If the enemy uses bullshit like healing off of your shield by striking it and resetting stagger it's totally fine to BS back by sending in a clone.
No, you're supposed to kill her in 30 seconds by spamming the flame pillar incantation
>Is it okay to summon mimic during Malenia? I'm beginning to think it is
The entire game was built and balanced around you summoning things. Why would it not be?
>see tombstone icon appear on the left of the screen
>*ding ding* 0.5 seconds later
>let's frick 'em up
I don't get the summoning bell hate
Malenia is bullshit. OOK is a very fair fight without relying on nonsense mechanics.
That ice looks like a benis 😀
>Which one was worse?
The game gives you more options to deal with Macarena, so Orphan was worse
Orphan was harder and more challenging
Elden Ring has way more tools for dealing with bosses
Malenia also has incredibly low poise and can be stunlocked very easily
Orphan is more fair and with interesting moveset that isnt zoom zoom anime katana
Orphan is just as fast, at a more constant pace. You won't see Orphan slowly circling you open to attack like Malenia does. Malenia is also stunlocked by light attacks unlike Orphan, who can only be poisebroken by well-timed chared R2's, a real challenge on a boss who rushes you and unleashes flurried of constant spammy attacks.
But of course, both fights are trivialized if you learn their patterns and know how to parry. At least Elden Ring lets you use spirit ashes.
I always feel like I've never fought the same version of Malenia as this hypothetical one people talk about.
>bro phase one Malenia just slowly walks!
Yeah if you don't press any buttons maybe. If you try to, I don't know, deal damage, then it becomes a DMC combo video starring (you) as the sandbag.
>you can stunlock her
Not in my version of the game unless your definition of a "stunlock" is getting one hit of stagger followed instantly by hitstun cancel reposition swipe attack.
>Orphan is more fair and with interesting
you mean way easier, and you find that interesting because you're a shitter
there are so many options to turn malenia into a joke it isn't even funny
The amount of sheer amount of self fellatio when it comes to discussing difficult is silly.
If you think Malenia is easy then you must think every single From game prior is unbearably boring. Just way too easy to be enjoyable. And that means you hate dark souls, which also means you opinion on games is shit. QED.
no anon
you dont get it, you HAVE TO appear super amazing on this anonymous imageboard otherwise u risk getting told to git gud so we all have to appear as extremely talented morons that 1 shot every single boss in the game otherwise your basically /reddit/
I think Malenia is easy even though I struggled with her a lot. Once you get used to her moves she's nothing special (like every other boss, really) but I like Fromsoft games because they're not that hard while they make you feel like you're beating something hard. Difficulty isn't why I play them anyway, it's the exploration, atmosphere and doing different flawed character builds. DeS is still my favorite overall but I play DS1 a lot because it's a good comfort game. My personal favorite "difficult" bosses are Demon Prince, Lady Maria and Sir Alonne.
>Maria
I don't want to dog on you but Maria was so weak that she quickly became a meme because so many players first tried her and few found her truly challenging.
I guess so, it's a "supposedly" difficult fight but I actually struggled with the Living failures more on my first two playthroughs. Still love her, Friede is probably a more refined version of that fight technically but it just doesn't feel the same.
These threads are literally, unironically filled with /r/iamverysmart material.
Oh shit.
Even the nightmare of a wheelchair old man that came from old one pussy beat this b***h KEK
Imagine snake being teleported in that place loosing his shit about what its watching with his one eye
People complain about waterfowl, but that's not even her biggest bullshit.
Fist, the fact that her skills have random hyperarmor and can completely reset her stagger bar if you hit her at the wrong moment, because some of her animations have a priority over getting staggered, because frick you.
Second, the spamable rollcatching triple slash, if you don't do a frame perfect timing, or aren't sufficiently far enough, you WILL get hit.
Lastly, the shit that fricking plagues entire elden ring, the RP walk and wait. The enemies are fricking hardcoded to wait and attack the moment you press the attack button, so that they can trade and come out on top, and Malenia is the worst in this aspect, since she hits like a truck and heals on top of that. Yeah, I sure do love waiting 20 seconds until the boss decides to finally attack, so that I can punish them with 2 hits before they jump back. It's pathetic how obvious it is, I'm always skipping the first waterfowl by running away once she's at 2/3 hp and use some ranged attack to trigger her from the other end of the map. Works every time.
I quickly gave up on the idea on fighting her fairly and cheesed the shit out of her. I'm not wasting time wrestling with artificial difficulty.
>the spamable rollcatching triple slash, if you don't do a frame perfect timing, or aren't sufficiently far enough, you WILL get hit.
just dodge to the side. she only goes forward
>the fact that her skills have random hyperarmor
she would be too easy if her attacks with a 3-4 second wind up could be interupted with an R1
>and can completely reset her stagger bar if you hit her at the wrong moment
thats not how it works
tl;dr skill issue
>she would be too easy if her attacks with a 3-4 second wind up could be interupted with an R1
Sister Friede handled this far better. Just give her a set, reliable threshold where she tells you to frick off after getting hit x times.
?si=UkAL78H-4HsGD5cg
So hard
Orphan is the better fight easily, I barely even remember what fighting Malenia was like despite having played ER much more recently
kos was easy for me
melania is just bullshit
Orphan is easily harder. Malenia is really passive, gets stunlocked easily, has predictable timings (even Waterfowl roughly), once you get used to her moves she's barely a threat if you're playing smart. Orphan was giving me way more troubles just because of how relentless he is.
>last DLC boss is just gonna be Malenia dialed up a hundred times to please the "difficult=good" crowd
This. People have spent the last decade going "it's not hard" mostly because they know fromsoft can't program for shit. Now they can just go "heru frick youru, we no program you pray this beta we make money"
Just like Gael before this and Friede before that and Orphan before that and Fume Knight before that and Manus before that, if it keeps people crying "UNFAIR!!" then they're doing everything right.
No, they hit a cieling with Malenia.
I bet most players who did eventually beat her did with cheese (frost/bleed spam, mimic tear, summoning other players, spell combos)
I think only a fraction actually beat her with just rolling, dealing phyical damage up close.
Who gives a flying frick how people beat her? This is a game that lets people play with all kinds of weapons, outfits, and magic. Go hunt a deer barehanded, you dumb homosexual.
>I think only a fraction actually beat her with just rolling, dealing phyical damage up close.
This is me. No cheese, no frost, no bleed, no OP ashes of war like hoarfrost, no summons, no rotten breath. Just plain old dodge and attack. Felt amazing btw. If you cheated you are less likely tor respect her fight because you earned nothing.
They haven't but Souls veterans certainly have. It's amazing to see people default to the same excuses people have been using for Souls games for a decade - it's not fair, it's cheap, not hard but tedious, I don't want to learn this bullshit, it's not balanced for my build, you need to cheat to beat it and so on. Just like Skyrim players first encountering O&S back in 2012. Guess we've reached this hardcore playerbase's upper limit. All will be filtered in the end and only the humble will prevail, a tale told by Souls games themselves since the first game.
There's also the fact that Ganker has an aging population that is past their mechanical prime. We are a couple of years away from anons wanting an easy mode because "they work all day" or "have kids to take care of" and can't be bothered to spend multiple attempts on boss fights.
I don't think we have to worry about anons having kids to take care of.
>can't be bothered to spend multiple attempts on boss fights.
Souls fatigue also contributes to this. Sometimes people just burn out and ER was an especially long game only adding to that, I felt it around 80 hours into it. As soon as you go "jesus frick what is it this time" when encountering a hard boss you probably won't have a good time beating it.
This.
Trying an afternoon to beat Orphan, ok.
Trying another to beat Isshin after grinding Demon of Hatred? eh.
Trying to beat Melania without cheesing her after exploring the entirety of the Lands Between? Nah, you win Miyazaki, I'm just gonna summon. I have proven my worth, I'm just tired at this point.
I’m better at the Souls formula than I ever was but Malenia is just an incredibly obnoxious boss and tedious as well since its an endgame area with two health pools.
But the souls veterans are their main fanbase so they won't like if it ever increases.
Of course there is virtually no upper limit to how hard you can make a boss but at some point when only a tiny fraction of players can beat it you shrank down your target audience significantly.
The Souls series was never aimed at super hardcore players, it was just hard enough to get the average person onto the edge of their seat and put in a little more effort than they were used to, especially in the context of around 2008-2012 when DeS and DaS released.
I also don't think O&S and Malenia are in any way comparable and I was around back then.
The whining for O&S had a very good excuse: Many didn't even play DeS before and the playerbase as a whole was generally less skilled.
After more than a decade of the playerbase improving, playing all kinds of souls games and souls likes, "solving" these games encountering a brickwall like Malenia is a completely different beast.
I bet Waterfowl dance hit a physical upper limit to what most players can learn to deal with in a reasonable timeframe. Nothing before that even compares, especially with 10 years+ of experience in the community.
At some point Fromsoft just has to concede that there is an upper limit to the difficulty or just deal with most of the players cheesing (which already happened to malenia).
>encountering a brickwall like Malenia is a completely different beast.
For most players who struggled through every Souls game with dozens of deaths on each endgame boss Malenia is just another hard boss. Waterfowl is this game's rollcatching delayed attacks, it has already been solved multiple ways and it's just a matter of execution. Approach to defeating Malenia is the same as approach to defeating O&S: be patient, play smart, use techniques you've learned online (hugging columns in O&S case) and if all else fails - summon. Did you know O&S is a boss made with summons in mind? It's true, there's two of them so 2v2 is fair and if they weren't FROM wouldn't have put Solaire's sign right next to them.
>or just deal with most of the players cheesing (which already happened to malenia).
I'm not sure they consider the tools they've put in the game "cheesing". Their approach is you adjusting the difficulty your own way, this whole "hurr you didn't beat the game" is only a thing on this board. The problems only start when the player overestimates his playstyle and thinks he's above using anything but the most boring basic R1-roll tactics when he's clearly eating dirt time and time again.
FromGames in general have horrible design when it comes to learning anything about the game. Nothing is explained. Like a boss fight and want to replay it? Fricking start the whole game over from scratch then. Want to practice a boss and learn it's movesets? Frick you. Imagine if they had a system like the Skate games where at the press of a button you could reset the move, or had a test arena where you had infinite health and could actually practice dodging waterfell without having to go through the boring tedium of loading in, spawning, fighting the boss, waiting for her to use it, dying, another load screen, repeat, repeat, etc. after you just had to replay the entire fricking game just to get back to her in the first place.
Sekiro has both a guy that trains you on the combat anytime for free and an option to re-fight whatever boss you want.
another reason why Sekiro is better than ER
This is because Souls games aren't just about fighting bosses. The boss is your checkpoint at the end of the level, it doesn't matter how you fight it as long as you win.
>This is because Souls games aren't just about fighting bosses.
Can we say this is still true? Elden Ring has like 2 gimmick bosses out over 100+ bosses.
It could have 0 gimmick bosses and be true, there's plenty more you do in the game aside from just fighting bosses.
Of course, especially true for Elden Ring. There are so many bosses they're just part of the environment, it's a return to the DeS mindset of a boss being a big special mob with a health bar down at the bottom. You find them in the world, in caves, you have to go out at night to encounter some. They're just an extension of your exploration.
Bosses in DeS were specifically meant to be unique encounters that varied from each other. Elden Ring's philosophy is far closer to Ds2 which was filled with garbage trash like Dragonriders and the Prowling Congregation or whatever.
In DaS2 you HAD to fight these trash mobs in order to progress though.
True, Elden Ring is the better game, but the fact remains it feels closer to Ds2 than it does DeS.
Yeah I would agree on that.
Gael was kino though
I hate Gael, he was the epitome of my biggest issue with Dark Souls 3 and left a sour taste in my mouth with the whole game. The presentation of the fight is excellent, I love the arena, Gael's design is cool and he has a cool moveset, it seems like it has all the makings of a great boss fight, but when I started fighting him all I could think about was what I was actually doing mechanically, which was just rolling, hitting him, rolling, hitting him, rolling, hitting him on and on. Almost the whole game is like that, and it's fine for a while, but being right at the end and having just fought Midir, who I had the same issue with, made it stand out most with Gael and all I could think of is how much of a failure the combat system is to be able to make such a well-presented fight feel so rote and boring.
Skill issue
Why bother doing that though? The issue with how roll heavy Dark Souls can be isn't that it's the only viable way to play, it's just such an efficient and reliable way to play that there's little to encourage you to do anything else. It never feels good when you're switching up tactics not because the new way of playing seems like it could have some unique benefits to it or might work in some special situation, but because the way that would work best is just so boring that you're willing to be unnecessarily risky just to try to force the game into being interesting.
>Why bother doing that though?
It cost him way less stamina than spamming roll would. Gael's massive arena really encourages you to run moreso than any other boss area.
It just sounds to me that you're fatigued by the game's combat system by the very final boss. Which is fine, I agree that Sekiro is the more refined game, but I also see Elden Ring as a step backwards.
I was fatigued by the game's combat system by the end of the game, and I'm not trying to deny that. I probably would have enjoyed Gael way more if he were earlier in the game. I actually have the same problem with Sekiro though and I had more trouble with Juzou than any other boss in the game, once I beat him I felt like I had a grasp of the basic mechanics and from there everything just feels reactive and samey which I found boring. I think Elden Ring improved on all that, which surprised me a lot because of how similar it looks and feels to DS3 though. I do think it has bigger issues with consistency than Sekiro or DS3 but I enjoyed its combat more overall.
L2ring is not an improvement
>dickripped DS2troony violently crying about 3kino with the same buzzwords for the 5000th time
still not convincing anybody you desperate dickripped lunatic
no matter which kino(DeS, DS1, DS3, ER) you dilate about
stay mad, stay rotting
digits confirm
btw anon, you are talking to the resident DS2troony
the mentally ill homosexual with the septic stinkditch always dilates this pretend schizo shit about rolling, even though everyone knows it's wrong
xhe's been mindbroken by xis troonycoffin game being invalidated, and routinely makes bait threads about every Soulskino to try and tear them down/makes bait threads to fellate the troonycoffin cashin sequel everyone hates
listen i hate ds2 as well but you've gotta calm down man
>p-pls stop nooticing....
stay mad
>buzzwords
larp harder
I prefer all those games, including DS3, to DS2, I just think the combat in DS3 is too simplistic for its length and the kinds of bosses it mostly has.
Gael and Friede aren't bullshit though. They are certainly bad bosses, un-fun and worse than anything in DS1, but there's no bullshit or artificial difficulty involved in them.
They were considered bullshit at the time. And Malenia will be considered a regular boss come next game. It's the usual Souls cycle.
>They were considered bullshit at the time
No they were not. No one said such a thing.
You weren't there. There were always complaints until the filter naturally sorts anons out over time.
Gael and Orphan were peak soulskino
Friede is shit just because of her second phase
Manus scares me so I'm never fighting him again and Fume Knight is easy
orphan is actually fair
Orphan sucks to fight esp with the shitty FPS. Malenia is way more fun and fair
Malenia is way more fu-ACK
malenia is hard but fun, while orphan is fun but hard
Malenia really ain't shit these days. They nerfed her a lot. You can stagger her out of pretty much anything and then apply pic rel. Bring fire jars to reset frostbite for extra stank on the cheese.
Orphan is a good boss because it's fair, it just hits hard and doesn't die too soon, you learn its moveset you beat it and nothing it does is too hard to avoid normally
Matroonia is the epitome of garbage souls boss design - multiple interlaced levels of cheating, moronic damage and fricking healing off it (and the rune version of it you get is garbage because frick you lol), have to know literally every way it can cheat to not get instacomboed, have a whole one mandatory way to avoid a guaranteed kill special attack boss can cheat into and also everything in second phase deals rot because frick you. It's that kind of boss you just cheese and never touch again
I really doubt most anons have played Bloodborne, but Orphan is a great fight with a lot to learn and understand and lots of room for creativity
Melania is just dogshit, she's either standing around doing nothing (the entire flower phase is basically completely free) or throwing out her dipshit instakill combo
Found Bullshit her hyperarmor even by casting dragon flame to the shit flower rot aoe spell
I thought valiant gargoyles are bullshit too.
That poison breath was unnecessary. Hard to see on the water surface and ticks for way too much damage. Also their movesets are way too jumpy/mobile.
DaS gargoyles was the same idea but perfected it already.
your own fault for being a vit str gay and not using doot
doot?
he probably means the gold horn that shoots a ton of bubbles, utterly broken against big bosses
Oh. I didn't even enter Lydell yet lmao.
I struggled with them on my first playthrough, but I had an easy enough time on the second and third. I think they nerfed them. I think the poison breath itself doing damage was unnecessary though, I think them just breathing poison and it doing no damage on its own and just poisoning you instead would have been fine.
Orphan of Kos is extremely fair. It's a hard fight and yet there's zero bullshit to it.
Right, i had fun fighting left
malenia, orphan was easy to learn to parry. and i didn't even use parry until i fought orphan.
I don't play souls games for the challenge, OOK is at around the limit of difficulty I can still find enjoyable. If it wasn't for the ways in which you can cheese Malenia I would have probably disliked fighting her, but Tiche made it a cakewalk
Malenia is harder, but you have less overtuned bullshit in BB, so OoK feels harder. But if you're playing full melee, then Malenia is harder.
ITT: You did not beat the boss.
>nooo, you have to drag out the fight
Reddit shit
We really need more games where you have difficult to execute high damage tech tbh
How come the anons who say this dropped Sekiro where you can't just cheese your way to the end?
"letting the boss use his full moveset" is pure reddit bullshit. not my fault if I no hit the boss and stagger him faster than the devs intended.
You didn't counter the boss' full moveset. You won by luck and did not have an answer for all their abilities. You, by definition did not beat the boss.
I dont fricking know, bro, i liked sekiro bosses way more than souls ones tho
Your image needs to be adjusted. There are people who cheese the boss and play on easy mode who can still say yes to every one of those. It needs to be more specific and/or restrictive, so here's a better version I made that accounts for those.
This is too restrictive.
>playing passively and baiting out safe-to-punish moves
This is a valid tactic if you are learning a boss. You can't be expected to go toe-to-toe all the time
>Did you alter your usual build or playstyle
I can kinda give you this but sometimes you just have to. I was using holy weapons against Malenia the first 40 or so attempts before realizing that she's resistant. I stuck to it as long as I could but ultimately used a more neutral (not supereffective) weapon instead.
Also min-maxing your build for a boss over progressive attempt is incredibly fun as you feel yourself lasting longer and getting better mechanically. This is only if you independently min-max rather than slap on cookie-cutter meta build.
>did you search for outside help
Meh. I bet you Waterfowl forced even the most hardened believers of this rule to reconsider. It's not a move I would've figured out how to dodge with a ton more attempts.
>did you boost your defensive or evasive capabilities
Completely valid tactic same as boosting attack through abilities.
it's bait you fricking stupid idiot
Who the frick are you? I'm continuing the discussion here to a relevant topic. Nothing in that image is overtly baity enough to disregard the whole thing. It raises some good points.
It's not too restrictive, because aside from using jump attacks that sometimes opened an opportunity to riposte her, I can't say yes to any one of those things in the image, and I never felt underpowered or like I was severely gimping myself either.
hard agree
rock solid, throbbing hard agree
if i don't meet this metric in my speed/no hit runs, i'll keep doing more runs
love seeing people optimize their punishes, squeezing as much damage as possible for certain openings
Congrats bro, that's the right mindset.
>start a boss for the first time
>end up getting a lot of lucky openings without really seeing its moveset
>start playing sloppy on purpose
>feel a sigh of relief when I die so I can try again without luck
Why yes, I did beat the boss.
Peak vidya is using the tools you are given to master your play style and therefore the game. Sure you can bumrush a Devil May Cry game but using all your moves and chaining the proper combos is that much sweeter.
>ftw learn you could walk on the water after killing OOK
>Which one was worse?
Neither.
Both are great and cool late game bosses to fight, get some irl skills, OP
YEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOW
[parry sfx]
YEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOW
[parry sfx]
YEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOW
[parry sfx]
YEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOW
[parry sfx]
YEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOW
[parry sfx]
YEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOW
[parry sfx]
YEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOW
[parry sfx]
PREY SLAUGHTERED
AAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE
Kos was harder for me. Summons make Malenia a cake walk.
>2024 soon
>guys are still complaining about Malenia
Shadow of the Erdtree will give us a new boss to complain about, don't worry.
>does a nihil that also empties your mana, then immediately starts a move similar to waterfowl dance but that's 10% faster and lasts twice as long
Malenia. Waterfowl Dance is stupid bullshit, everything else that she does isn't that hard to dodge and there are tons of Ashes that will stunlock her to death
I died more on YEOOOOOOOOOW
Nobody but the blackest Black folk played bloodborne so I wouldn't know
Here comes the Nintentoddler
That is not true
The fanbase also contains Brazilians and Indians
>majority if Ganker thinks Malenia was bs
There's still hope for this community...
Everybody with half a working brain knows the entire game was bullshit and poorly designed
About to start DS3 today, any fun fights like the Throne Defenders from DS2? I know there's some multi-man fights in ER but i'm saving that. Hoping to get my shit pushed in this time instead in getting lucky and having one of them getting stuck on the other kneeling allowing me to heal and beat them like 2nd try, it was still cool
oh yeah the best multi fight in the series
There's an amazing multi-boss fight in the second DLC, it's worth the wait. Plus some fights have phases where you fight multiple entities, for the lack of a better word, including one where just like Throne Defenders one will attempt to ressurect another when you kill him. DS3 overall isn't too hard until the last stretch of the game and the DLCs, that's where the real meat is.
The two sharks in the Bloodborne well killed me more than either of them.
Which is funny cause when I finally wised up to using a shaman bone blade I beat them in one go
That's Fromsoft's design philosophy. Use the tools at hand.
That entire encounter was bad. I could see if the second one drops down when the other one dies but the first walks over while you attack it and you get gangraped to death.
The cutoff is exactly halfway through. Not only that but the first shark runs over towards the second one once injured enough, giving you time to prepare. And if that wasn't enough you see the second shark while climbing down the ladder on the ceiling.
I spent more time on Orphan than Malenia
I had a dream of fromsoftware, he was dead, but it was alright...
Bloodborne was the only game they made with passion, soul and talent
Demon's Souls only exists because Miyazaki begged to work on a fantasy game and assumed it was likely going to fail anyway.
Demons Souls had soul and passion, but not enough talent.
Kos is much more challenging, like bloodborne itself, but Malenia is worse because it has disgusting combat mechanics that break the rules of the game.
Orphan of Kos felt balanced and took me about 20-30 attempts to beat without any "tricks" meanwhile Malenia felt like a boss from a wrong game (Sekiro, maybe even Bloodborne), I used cheesy shit, various non-human summons, and it still took me +50 tries to get her.
Malenia, people always post about how she's fair but honestly she just isn't fun.
>can cancel her own animations to block/parry
>can cancel her own animations to dash away
>people always post people dabbing on first form malenia(EVEN I CAN DO THAT moronS)
honestly, she just tested my patience and that's already my weakest skill, the fight is honestly just not fun but the same could be said for any boss fight in Elden ring except for Mohg and Morgott
>died more to red wolf of radagon than malenia
>Malenia, people always post about how she's fair but honestly she just isn't fun.
This is an opinion I can understand. Anyone claiming she's "unfair" is just a shitter who can't adapt. If the argument is that it makes the fight less fun than it could be I won't refute that, though it is heavily subjective. Personally I enjoy some variables.
I'm not missing any point. All I've said is that she isn't unfair because she does not have any way to guarantee damage. If you ever get hit by Malenia it's because you put yourself in a situation to get hit. It is 100% your fault. You did something you shouldn't have done, whether that be using an attack with a long animation or mistiming a dodge. I haven't argued against anything so subjective as how "fun" it makes the fight because that would be fricking stupid.
For sure, I also think Elden Ring just isn't for me. Too many moving body parts that are too highly detailed, it just doesn't mesh well with me, and while memorization has always been a skill it really feels like they doubled down on how many moves NPC's can do that you have to memorize the timing for because you can't roll on reaction to anything.(Except for those few specific moves that come out faster so you HAVE to roll on reaction or just not be in the position in the first place.)
I always had a fool proof strategy of run away in a circle to bait lunge attacks, go for jump attack, repeat.
waterfowl is unfair because it is an instakill that you have to learn to survive. it's not up for debate. they designed waterfowl with the intent that absolutely nobody could possibly survive malenia first try. second phase is unfair because like a lot of the shit bosses in this game half the difficulty is seeing what she's doing through the particle effects blocking half the screen.
>waterfowl is unfair because it is an instakill that you have to learn to survive.
First of all that's not true. Even at an appropriate level(~100-130) and zero armor equipped you can survive multiple hits of the combo. If you frick up too much you die.
Secondly... you're trying to say it's unfair because you have to learn the fight. You're a fricking moron.
I'm saying it's unfair because the circumstance that people are complaining about was deliberately engineered, ie "I can fight her perfectly and then she just instakills me with waterfowl". it's supposed to be an attack that walls 90% of players by itself. there's nothing like that in the previous games, just like there's nothing comparable to mohg's nihil. elden ring's boss design is distinctly different from the way these games used to be, and I don't like it.
don't reply to vpn schizo
>I'm saying it's unfair because the circumstance that people are complaining about was deliberately engineered
Delayed attacks were deliberately engineered to give enemies an edge over players but there's nothing unfair about them. At worst you can say they look fricking dumb because they completely shatter any sense of weight or realism of many attacks.
Something being an intentional design choice does not make it inherently bad or unfair. Yes, it's a very dangerous attack that walls many players. There are multiple ways to get around it though. An example of something unfair would be getting ambushed by three Fiery Hounds in the Tower of Babil and they Scorch you to death before you have a chance to do anything.
delayed attacks are unfair because fromsoft deliberately doesn't tell you how they work, they don't tell you how anything works in their shitty games, lol
>fromsoft deliberately doesn't tell you how they work
Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how they work after seeing it once and if you're up against an unknown enemy you should be playing cautiously anyway so you're likely to see it happen before you're in any real danger.
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how they work
Source? how do the delayed attacks in elden shart work vpn schizo?
>how do the delayed attacks in elden shart work
They hit you after you think they'd hit. You know, because they're delayed. Thank you for admitting you're brain damaged and couldn't figure this out on your own.
>They hit you after you think they'd hit
what does this even mean vpn schizo
Why do you assume you deserve to be told how anything works huh? Who the frick are you?
>Something being an intentional design choice does not make it inherently bad or unfair
no, what makes it inherently bad is that the challenge of the boss is almost entirely encapsulated into a single attack, and what makes it unfair is that they did that on purpose. I don't really care to split hairs about the definition of "unfair". I think malenia sucks and she would suck if she didn't have the things that make her "unfair". This isn't a situation of "she would be great but these things ruin it". She's a crappy boss with cheap low effort bullshit added to make her hard.
What does your opinion have to do with anything?
>I don't really care to split hairs about the definition of "unfair".
You better not because by your own admission your definition of unfair is "I dislike it", completely worthless.
what do I care what you think about the worth of anything? who are you? some worthless Ganker troll.
>called out
>immediately goes into defensive backlash mode
Stop being moronic and accept that the game isn't for you.
what are you talking about? I've played every souls game starting with demon's souls. I've beat every boss in elden ring multiple times, and I've come to the conclusion that it's subpar. my opinion matters as much as anyone's, and I would say more than yours.
You unironically think Malenia is unfair and you've been whining about her repeatedly. You've outed yourself as having an opinion worth nothing because you're not mentally mature enough to understand that not liking something doesn't mean it's unfair.
vpn schizo you're a Black person
and you're an autistic loser who thinks everyone else has to agree with your definition of what makes something fair or not.
You're saying "agree" as if this is something up for debate. It's not. There's nothing unfair about Malenia and you're a shitter for whining about her so much.
If you have nothing to say do the smart thing and shut up. Nobody cares whether or not you like or dislike something.
>I don't like it.
And here we have the real reason for the argument. Just say you don't like it, no need to construct a whole imaginary "unfair" argument around having such a basic opinion. Nobody thinks your pride is on the line in this argument about things that people who enjoy the fight simply learn in a few tries and it stops being an issue altogether. Just like all other attacks and mechanics that weren't there in previous Souls games and especially for people whose first was ER and they never encountered any mechanics before it. Souls games are always a battle between the combat designer and the player, it will continue to evolve beyond this. It's only up to the player to step up and evolve with it. Bosses don't play fair and players don't play fair. Some don't like it and it's fine.
schizoid
nice wall of text moron, except my point the entire time has been that I don't like her, don't find her fun, think she's poorly designed, etc. you're the one putting so much stock in these words like "unfair", "cheap", "cheater", etc. and imagining that I must be fuming about it, but they're just descriptive terms. the reality is that I just think elden ring sucks in general, not that the game is "unfair".
again, it's not my job to make the boss challenging.
orphan, no contest
you cant use shields or armor
Melania by far. It’s not even close. Orphan you can learn easily and first phase is a joke. Malenia is so difficult to learn and her one move you really need to learn is so unforgiving it just kills you if you frick up.
Orphan by far. He flails around like a spastic and isn't fun.
Orphan 10x
there's nothing wrong with input reading. I really like champion gundyr and the way he shoulder checks you if you even think about healing. malenia is just a shit boss. even if you took the bullshit away, she would just be boring, which is probably why they added all the bullshit. it feels like they were trying really hard to make the next "hardest boss ever", but they failed, so they just bolted on the bullshit to force her to be hard.
How did they go from maria to malenia? did they hire Indians?
>noooooooooooooo you can't stagger our female humanoid! that makes the game too easy!
there
You can stagger Malenia.
Maria is cool, but way too easy. Malenia has some bullshit to her, but was overall a more enjoyable fight despite the presentation not being on par with Maria.
Maria being a turn-based fight with zero dangers is the reason Malenia exists. She's correcting the mistake of From thinking that giving a humanoid boss no advantages over the player is fair, because the player cheats and input-reads constantly making the fight inherently biased in his favor.
No Malenia exists because she's what happens when you ask the b-team to make a Sekiro boss
No, Malenia exists to make low skill shitters piss their pants and naturally cleanse Fromsoft's fanbase of their collective baby whining.
>game is poorly designed
>vpn schizo: lol filtered
every souls thread for the last 10 years
friede is maria if she was hard. malenia is just a cheater.
You're the type of person who calls people who headshot you in FPS games cheaters.
Orphan is a fight designed for bloodborne.
Malenia was designed for Sekiro.
A better comparison would be Demon of Hatred and Malenia.
>Malenia was designed for Sekiro.
no she wasn't, schizo
Malenia, Orphan was actually great.
I guarantee that 90% of the people saying "shes ez lul" would change their tune if Fromsoft made her immune to bleed/frost
The only person saying that is vpn schizo because he doesn't have an argument for how it's good game design
Oh no, a fight would take half a minute longer, the horror. I guess I'd have to bait and punish her openers two more times than I would've if I used status effects!
Orphan was not as interesting of a fight, for me. It felt more like luckswing when he'd be attacking me and just missing while I was attacking him at the same time and accidentally moving around his swings. Malenia felt more like each attack had to be calculated/countered and luck had less to do with it.
KoS
>he doesn't understand basic animation principles
Not even worth a (You). Go back to talking about how she's "unfair." That somehow made you look less moronic than what you're doing now.
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work
>immediately fail to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
its funny to summon the immobile archer lady against malenia and watch her just matrix dodge everything she shoots
Slave knight gael
>he can't read
When I fought Orphan after most recently directly after finishing ER, i killed him on my second attempt. Pretty much all the bosses near the end of ER are harder and also have gay bullshit i hate
>he doesn't know how to scroll up
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work
>immediately fail to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
orphan is actually pretty easy
t. gay that first tried him on the yearly bb replay
>I first tried him on a replay
wow your so good
Fromsoft games aren't hard, you just stick rocks in your sword and get more OJ
thanks bro
>he's in full desperation mode
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work
>immediately fail to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
Worse or harder? They are both fun bosses but Malenia is much harder.
Malenia.
Kos is an honest good fight.
>he's having a complete mental breakdown after getting BTFO
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work
>immediately fails to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
>unironically refreshing just for the opportunity to ctrl + v as soon as possible
>Anyone who isn't brain damaged can tell how delayed attacks work
>immediately fail to explain how they work
this is the guy defending the game in every thread by the way
>he's still going at it
isn't there a gif showing the hitbox of waterfowl dance being a complete sphere around melania? that is some real bullshit.
i never figured out how to deal with the clone attack in phase 2 personally
the first few clones she makes stick around after their first attack and warp across the map from offscreen to rollcatch you trying to dodge the last clones
maybe i was too far away or too close i dunno didnt get enough phase 2 fights to study the move out
Malenia because Elder Stank is a submissive sissy game for those who like passive Simon Says rollslop, dont ever go off script!
at least you can fight malenia unlike maliketh who spends all of phase 2 in the fricking sky spamming projectiles and sick nasty flips
thank frick he is a glass cannon
god the last stretch of bosses really were shitty werent they
I played the whole game up to Malketh the way I wanted, as a two-handed STR build
then I got to that stupid homosexual and it was just like okay whatever and I looked up the dual homosexualry ice cheese that everyone was using in PVP, instantly made me go from respecting the game to just wanting it over with
The game is too enemy centric, you can't do anything cool (weapon artes aren't that cool) while the boss is doing anime flips, corny as hell.
I don't understand, how is it that a 9 year old game has the best hitboxes, did they lost the knowledge? Did a completely different team made bloodborne?
now imagine those swings hit in a 360 block around gascoigne. that's melania.
>enemy performs a 360 spin
>attack has a 360 degree hurtbox
What's the problem again?
It's 360s on both axis, literally a sphere.
Yes, and? All this means is that you can't jump it unless you're on the edge which makes sense considering the visual clearly displays slashes well above Malenia.
Next attempt?
You said it's fine because the attack is a 360 degree spin, as if it is just a circle when it's a sphere. Now you started to ramble about something else entirely.
the people making Bloodborne actually gave a shit
Elden Ring was just earning a paycheck
> Did a completely different team made bloodborne?
Isn't it obvious? Sony paid them so they hired actual talented pepole
It's the dark souls 2 guy, he made das2, 3 and ER, the good games had the Bloodborne, Sekiro, and das1 guy, I forgot their names.
Open world. The more linear a Fromsoft game is the better they can balance and polish the bosses.
DeS, DaS, Bloodborne, Sekiro all felt fair in that if you fricked up it was either a natural mistake, getting too greedy, hesitating or a mechanic/ability that gets you off guard. I like ER but if Gascoigne were in this he’d give no indication he abides by the games rules or has a stamina bar. He’d be flailing around doing triple flips and tossing daggers at you and then comboing into an AOE shockwave.
look at this moronic shit.
is the sphere representing where you would get hit?
Yes. You'll also notice the sword has an additional hitbox.
Sphere corresponds to the visual indication in game when the afterimages of the sword swipes happens. Unlike something like Dark Souls 2 where you could get hit by phantom attacks.
>she performs clear attacks and they hit you!
>this is unfair!
Well yes it's a weaboo trope. We the player can track certain movements but the implication is that she's moving so fast that there are numerous other strikes occuring. Thats why she performs a 360 attack without even moving at the end of the Art.
This. It's a weeaboo trope to have poorly defined hitboxes
>poorly defined
>visual effect is perfectly clear
Why are there so many people in this thread who are desperate to out themselves as shitters who will use any excuse to blame the game for their personal shortcomings?
What? The fight was simple with the blasphemous blade. Just commenting on the poorly defined hitbox. Git gud.
The "git gud" made it too obvious. Learn from this and better yourself.
That anon and I are actually talking, though. Learn from this and better yourself.
How is it poorly defined? The animation makes it pretty clear she's creating wide arcs of attack that cover a large area around her.
It isn't each swing individually defined, it's like a globe or sphere appears around her. That's all I'm saying. You're way too caught up in the whole "ELDEN RING IS A HARD GAME" when it's literally just finding something like bleed, rot, or some powerful ash of war that goes with your build.
Orphan is hard because you fight him at 12 fps
Malenia is hard because every mistake you make (take damage) means the fight will take longer to finish (lifesteal).
Both are huge bullet sponges anyway.
>I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella, and I have never known defeat.
>Well except that one time where I was losing and then coughed and shitted and farted everywhere and caused an ecological disaster and my allies had to drag me back home, and while I was gone a deformed gay pedophile kidnapped my twin brother to rape in his blood realm.
she's literally coping
Yes, the game literally has a whole quest how Malenia abandoned her warrior pride to not technically lose.
1. Blind swordsman killed her the first time, one of the talismans mentions this. He also defeated the Rot God and wasn’t a Tarnished.
2. Radahn forced her into a corner and she once again bloomed in Caelid.
3. Tarnished kills her another time.
4. Then another time after shes a fully empowered Emperyean of Rot.
Blind Swordsman didn't fight Malenia, he fought the God of Rot and sealed it in Malenia and then trained her.
Her resorting to Scarlet Aeonia to defeat Radahn is highlighted as her abandoning Warrior pride to her shame.
3 and 4 are the same instance, she doesn't die halfway through your fight.
The God of Rot is sealed under the Lake of Rot.
>Though born into the accursed rot, when the young girl encountered her mentor and his flowing blade, she gained wings of unparalleled strength.
The only time she gains wings is when she dies and blooms into another form. He owned her and she learned from this, training under him.
What? Every time we see her do it she doesn't die beforehand.
Doesn't count. She won.
if she won why is her beloved brother a wrinkly mummy with a gaping boyhole
Malenia lost, Mohg won.
THATS IT
IVE HAD IT WITH THIS SHIT THREAD
IM GOING TO replay sekiro
Neither because I beat BOTH of them first try with my eyes closed with 1 hand while 8 supermodels were sucking my dick (which is very large)
If you had any difficulty with either you're a moron and should have a nice day.
orphan doesn't heal on hit (even when you block) so obviously malenia is worse
Malenia is in part why I hope Shadows of the Erdtree is the swansong of traditional soulslikes for FromSoft
Since Dark Souls 3 it's been an arms race of From making faster bosses with more delayed attacks and players getting better. But now with Elden Ring you're mostly dodging really long fast combos and sneaking in a few hits. It's a limit of the Dark Souls style and I hope future From games diverge as much as Sekiro and Armored Core VI did
I kept hearing that Malenia is sooo impossible yet I beat her at like 3rd attempt. Summoning 2 other players btw. Solo she would be pretty hard indeed.
I beat malenia in 30 seconds with rivers of blood
You beat the game
Chad as frick.
Both phases? I don't believe you it took at least a minute unless you can attack her during aeonia safely with it. I wouldn't know though I've never used rivers of blood
if you run straight at her and dodge in 2nd phase you can stun lock the shit out of her while shes doing the flower nuke
Okay but you'll be taking a bunch of really high aoe damage constantly from the flower which should be stunlocking you while she's doing it right?
the explosion does a lot of damage but if you avoid that the lingering damage it does isn't that much and you can get right on her and slap her rotting cheeks
Orphan I look forward to every BB run.
Malenia I cheese with summons and broken tools.
ER shits the bed in its final areas, hopefully DLC will fix this.
What Elden Ring seriously lacks is a good duo boss. There's nothing on the level of O&S, Darklurker, Elana + Velstadt, Demon Princes, or Friede and Ariandel
Godskin duo might have been better if you hadn't fought they like a half a dozen times individually before then.
There's sadly a lot of fights that were kino as one-offs that still got reused anyway.
Really shame about Astel. I get that it's a species so there's more of them but it still would have been better if it was a unique fight.
It really depends on the build and the weapons of choice. Some of the supposedly hard bosses I found to be super easy but then with a different build you might get unpleasantly surprised. It's not a given but it happens.
The dungeon Rom and the hotdog are the hardest for me. The Living Failures also catch me off guard sometimes.
>Smough is the easiest enemy in the game just above a basic hollow and ornstein is a janky spammer with weird hit boxes so they just balance out to a pretty easy but tedious where the gimmick is not being infuriated by Super ornsteins jank hit boxes or falling asleep during super smough
>A single boss that has a very inconsistent attack where it splits itself and leaves itself completely vulnerable is a "duo boss"
>See above
>I never played their game
Frick duo bosses. Not to mention we got plenty of gankfests like 6 imps + a statue, dual crucible knights, etc but we also got the godskin duo (actually 3 of them at the least). Any fight thats not a 1v1 is ass. I mean most 1v1s suck too but duo fights can never be good because they're either inherently unfair and bullshit or inherently unfair and way too easy so its just tedious extra health
waterfoul is the only legitimate unfair attack in the entire fromsoft modern catalog; a sekiro move reliant on the parry put in a game that doesn't have it
If I can survive it even if I get hit by it - it's fair. You know what's unfair? Astel's oneshot grab.
>If I can survive it even if I get hit by it - it's fair
unavoidable damage outside of scripted moments are not fair in an action game
>Astel's oneshot grab.
consistently dodgable, not unfair
it wasn't until after beating the game that i learned that Orphan Of Kos was apparently one of the hardest bosses in the entire souls genre for a bunch of people. this dude gave me little to no trouble at all, and it wasn't even memorable.
this fricker kicked my ass numerous times though.
The hardest fight for me is Laurence. but it never takes me long if I play safe with his third phase.
I accidentally finished the game before doing the DLC which meant I had to rush to it in NG+. Laurence was BY FAR the hardest boss in the game and took me an incredible number of tries to beat. He's a culprit of the spastic attack box playstyle and you can ignore that if you have appropriate hp (I didn't). The second hardest boss was Ludwig followed by...The two sharkmen in the well. Orphan was 4th.
Kos isn't even the hardest boss in ToH, Ludwig and Lawrence are noticeably more difficult, and this is even if you avoid parrying Orphan which makes him a lot easier.
Ludwig is piss easy when you realize the best way to kill moonlight is with another moonlight.
Bloodborne vids are always nice to watch. The combat is just so good.
The best fights are the gimmick ones. Rykard is one of the few times on elden ring that I could actually say I was having fun from beginning to end because shooting light beams with giant spear is cool as shit
Malenia should have just been mypha 2.0 with a giant super scarlet rot pool that constantly deals damage to you and heals her. No waterfowl, no healing on hits, just you vs rot
I beat left with Ludwig's Holy Blade and right with Mimic Tear +10 and Starscourge Greatsword
They are both great.
Man I don’t wanna flood the thread with this essay. Beat these games like 20 times, done RL1/BL4 on both, cloudsaved to refight them a ton, helped others beat them or bully them, etc. Here is the shortest version of my thoughts
>Kos is better
>Kos is the best fight they ever made
>Kos perfectly concludes everything Bloodborne had been teaching you about aggression up to that point
>He’s the natural progression from “aggressive but forgiving” Maria, Kos is “aggressive and havel”
>Malenia is great and takes pretty good advantage of Elden Ring’s new/revised mechanics
>It’s clear she was designed to be the hardest boss ever outside of Sekiro
>She’s like Rykard, as in she’s evolution of a fight established in previous souls games (Storm King for Rykard, dex woman for Malenia)
>Unlike Rykard who had two great phases (outside of the earthquake attack in phase one which 99% of you cannot dodge) and surpassed the predecessors, Malenia is only great in her first phase
>Her second phase is heavily flawed and is just “ok”
>This drops her down from an A tier fight to a high B tier fight
>Kos is S rank alongside 3 other bosses
I don’t have time to explain why I don’t like malenia’s 2nd phase but those who’ve fought her and gotten good, really good, at the fight will know why. I’ll just say “inconsistency”, that’s all.
Malenia's second phase is an extension of her first. She has some extra swings or added explosions after her moves which reduces your openings. Her damage intake is still the same and so are her stagger weaknesses.
>Kos perfectly concludes everything Bloodborne had been teaching you about aggression up to that point
He doesn't
which one is that? Kos or Kosm?
waterfowl exists to delete you on your first attempt while trying to learn her attacks
thats literally it thats the whole point
Are there morons UNIRONICALLY claiming that Kos is harder than Malenia?
Kos is easy as frick to parry, you can even shoot blindly when he spergs out and you have a good chance of getting a lucky parry
most disappointing boss I ever fought with how much he was hyped up