Which school is the best?
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Which school is the best?
Which school is the best?
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DnD style Magic schools are inherently a dumb concept, like most things from DnD.
No such thing as a magic 'school'. Magic is something that cannot be studied and once it can it is no longer magic.
I prefer to think of it as something that can be studied, but never fully understood, whether that be because it changes over time, or is different for every person, or follows rules that humans cannot fundamentally conceptualize and reconcile with the laws of our reality, or whatever other reason.
But yes, DnD magic schools are moronic as frick. They're like saying "yeah, I've studied the Englusg language, I specialized in vebs". It's moronic as frick.
Hard systems inherently ignore and disrespect the soft purpose of magic.
Underrated post. Nobody ever bothers to ask “What keeps the magic?”.
If mystery and wonder make magic, then ignorance is the greatest magic of all.
Everything you don’t know is everything else out there, and there is nothing more occult than the deep black abyss that is space. The more alien and unfamiliar, the better.
This is why drugs and medicine were once considered sorcery before the advent of chemistry proper.
Artifice, math and astronomy were likewise taken to be the stuff of wizardry.
What does the physicist say when they confront something new and or bewildering?
—“Hmm. That’s weird. I wonder how that works…”.
Magic is a magician.
In a scientific world where everything is deconstructed, you eventually realize that magic IS “magic”.
Indistinguishable from religion:
—“That’s not magic, THIS is Magic!”.
—“That’s not a god, THIS is a God!”.
Magic is a way of looking at something. A feeling. What is magic to one is not magic to another. It may not even be magic to the magician.
You see this in works like Lord of the Rings, where the elves don’t actually believe in (elven) magic. Magic is a bar.
Magic is purely psychological.
The magic that can be defined is not the real magic, never was. The real magic is the unconstrained free will. You are fixated on the husk. The definitions always come after the fact and never quite capture the magic because they are mere models, they are the map, not the territory
I wonder what has similar "rules" for magic in that sense? Something borderline instinctual.
Unironically Ars Magica or Mage the Ascention.
Shit take.
Magic is inherently not magic, since it is based on nano bots build by the Atlanteans, control of which can be studied at the secret nano robotics college in Verona NJ. According to my head canon, this is true for all settings including reality and your home brew, thus rendering your argument void.
>autistic paradigm about make-believe claiming make-believe cannot conform to any scientific properties because autism
Magic feels best when it's not fully comprehended but to imply that magic can never be studied and thus never learned or taught is fundamentally short-sighted and more limiting than scientific properties would be.
No English has rules, but you wouldn't call writing a poem a science.
This gay is actually trying to kill this board.
And succeeding.
/tg/'s population has halved in the last two years, and is continuing to fall.
The worst part is he'll eventually get his wish. People will finally stop talking about D&D. But, not before they stop talking about every other game first.
It's at the point where this board may deserve to die, and him being left all by himself in its corpse.
Oh frick off with your whinging. Your game sucks, it's fanbase are consistently the worst people in the hobby, and the corporation who runs your lifestyle brand in more money-hungry and abusive than fricking EA executives. You shitters have a containment thread for a reason.
Your mindless infatuation with D&D and WotC products are a bane on this board, everyone around you, and yourself. You don't deserve better, so stick with it, but just stop posting here. You won't be missed.
Go back to your general, DnDrone. The rest of us aren't interested in sucking off WotC, who tried to kill the entire hobby with frivolous copyright lawsuits in just the last year. If anyone is "killing the hobby" it's moronic shills like you that excuse absolutely deplorable behavior from your corporate overlords.
Maybe wotc shouldn’t pay people to post here.
Oh grow up. Nobody should give a flying frick about Dee en Dumb. It actually fosters cancerous “Uhh, ackchyually, Gandalf was a Cleric” tier thinking. Get that shit think out of here.
How about learning another system for once? This sort of panic/refusal to entertain another system is precisely what tainted games like Symbaroum.
Dee en Dumb is like the Borg. It wants to assimilate. It is a cancer and it wants you to stay the same. Perpetual stagnation.
>/tg/'s population has halved in the last two years
People returned to the outside world.
This is me btw, I also haven't played IRL in half a decade
I like it.
Like scientists trying to figure out how magic works and coming up with flawed systems and such.
Kind of like the Elder Scrolls games.
Makes scholars feel like scholars in the system and make things like Read Magic or whatever it's called more interesting too.
This only works in past eras when ignorance reigned supreme, though. In a world of science, where things are supposed to be taken as honest (…in theory), words like ‘magic’ aren’t going to be used as serious definitions for anything. Not when anyone can use the word to refer to literally anything sufficiently magical.
Magic survives as something to describe, not to define. Science makes magic transcendent, in the sense that anything can be magic from a sufficient angle. A crashed UFO is borderline magic to a physicist.
(me)
The modern sorcerer equivalent is, truly, the mad scientist hanging off the edges/fringes of understanding.
The more you look at scientists today, the more they appear to be indistinguishable from wizards in method:
—“No sense of right and wrong”
—“All progress demands sacrifice”
—“It isn’t a matter of could, but should”
—“Sweet, man-made horrors beyond my comprehension”
Science is also, arguably, a full-fledged religion at this point.
—“Dare you dissent against the science?”
—“Anti-vaxxer? That is heresy! Fauci is a saint!”
—“When I want an alternative opinion, I turn on The View.” (this one is very cult-like)
fpwp
Every academic field is going to inevitably fracture into different sub-disciplines. Philosophy broke into the sciences, mathematics, and modern philosophy. The sciences became chemistry, physics, and biology. Mathematics contains algebra, analysis, topology, and more.
The fact of the matter is that a wizard would most likely study some very specific and narrow part of magic as their life's work. Shit like "divination magic that lets me see and classify magical energy."
I think Transmutation is the coolest, but Divination makes some of the most iconic madman characters in my experience.
Most wizards will just go Evocation anyway because fireball.
Shocking lack of whimsy on this one.
Conjuration, because I enjoy summoning an angel and a demon and forcing them to cuddle each other for my amusement. Just cuddle, because I only stick my dick inside of my fellow primes. Don't want to produce any half breed bastards, ya know?
Based sadistic forced partners enjoyer
For me it's illusion.
I take a sadistic pleasure in Abjuration just because it means I'm the fun police to all other casters.
What's this? Someone is summoning angels and demons and forcing them to non-violently settle their differences? Planar banishment will solve that and restore enmity between heaven and hell!
An anon having fun with blasty magic? A good old counter spell will settle him down!
But for not being a dick to everyone, I like enchantment.
>But for not being a dick to everyone, I like enchantment
Thanks anon.
>Wants people to discuss magic
>Refuses to put in the effort himself
>Now relies on endlessly necrobumping threads hoping newbies fall for his thread
I have made 2 (now 3) posts in this thread, neither of which is the OP. I'm sorry that someone conjured a glass rod up your ass, but not everything is about getting (you) s.
>Necromancy
incel school - 30 year old virgins start down this path
>divination
nerd school - wants to know it all
>Abjuration
no fun allowed school - popular with karens
>illusion
it was real in my mind and now it's real in yours school - have fun talking to your imaginary friends
>Conjuration
cuck school - see they just want to watch
>Enchantment
bawd school - at least they aren't cucks like the conjuration gays
>Evocation
pencil neck school - shoots fire bolts to compensate for being scrawny with a small penis
>Transmutation
The true chad school of self improvement. Popular, great looks, strong body, gets all the b***hes not by tricks but by being better.
EVOCATION! I WANNA THROW GIANT BALLS OF MASS DAMAGE INSIDE OF SMALL ROOMS AND WHACK PEOPLE WITH GIANT FISTFULLS OF DICE AND ADD UP THE NUMBERS AND SUBTRACT THEM FROM THE OTHER NUMBERS AND FIRE AND ACID AND ICE AND LIGHTING AND PEW PEW PEW EXPLOSIONS BURSTING OUT OF THE PALMS OF MY FRICKING HANDS!
Are you sure you`re Evoking elemental orb for damage? I`m sorry you`re conjuring balls of elemets, well that`s conjuration then.. Oh you`re using them for protection? then it`s abjuration actually... wait, you`re in fact transmution a material component into the orbs, that`s transmutation now, sorry..
It's almost like DnD is pants-on-head moronic. The moronation of magic schools often gets overlooked because it's buried under the even larger moronation of Vancian casting and spell slots, but yeah... moronic as frick. Deprogram yourself from thinking about everything through the lense of moronic DnD'isms and so much more potential opens up for you in the fantasy genre.
I actually really like Vancian casting, just not the way modern D&D handles it by abandoning the logistics behind it and meddling with the remnants with no respect to the original framework. I've still never seen a better justification for the concept of a spellbook than Vancian magic.
>3.5
3.5 had the problem of too many features so they had to make features for those features to synergies.
Vancian casting is fine in the circumstances it was made for. I.e. the fricking novels.
Orb spells didnt bring forth energy, they actually conjured a mass of the related outer planes matter that could be rolled about.
Actually fueling raw energy with conversion is evocation, abjuration is undoing or manipulating raw magic to a new more neutral or natural state. Cope harder homosexual.
Only moron move was not keeping all raw and natural healing under necromancy.
>theater kid has a mental breakdown for no reason
The typical DnDrone has several mental and social deficiencies which explain the random moron outbursts quite well, actually.
The really sad thing though, magic sucks for "blasting" in 5e. Enemy HP is super inflated and magic damage compensates so poorly that using a spell slot to do damage is usually one of the absolute worst ways to use a spell slot.
have you played the game??
Yes. I've been playing sine ADnD, and the inflation of enemy HP has far outpaced the mostly-stagnant damage of spells. Fireball is not the room-clearer it used to be. If your DM is using appropriately leveled monsters, at best you're gonna piss them off with 1/4t to 1/2 of their HP gone. Not bad, but a lock down spell like Hypnotic Pattern is gonna be better 90% of the time. A damaged enemy can hit you back, a stunned one can't.
He hasn't. He's completely unaware that fireball in 5e is an intentionally broken spell, and his math doesn't take into account just how many enemies he gets to hit.
He's generally a fricking moron and should be ignored.
Fireball is intentionally broken, and yet still somehow not a good use of a spell slot. Being 30% overpowered for its level doesn't matter much when it's still not going to kill CR appropriate monsters in any fewer turns. A spell that prevents those same monsters from doing anything is going to be better 9 out of 10 times, but brainlets fail to grasp this fact because they want to do their big moronic anime explosions... and then complain about spell slots being too limited when a single lock down spell could have gotten them through an encounter better than the three fireballs they just wasted.
min maxing is gay af
Min maxing is really all there is to do in DnD, because it sure as shit isn't a good roleplaying system.
HEY GUYS, HE DID IT AGAIN.
HE SAID "DnD" IS BAD, WOW HOW AMUSING.
Man, if you actually put as much effort into actually thinking as you do into shitspamming, you might have given up shitspamming years ago.
>wow I engaged with a known anti-DnD person and he said mean things about DnD! AGAIN!!
>How could this be happening to me??
Inb4: a random person barges into a discussion he doesn't care for and gets mad, yep that's me
Go back, LL
Korean mmo style rune stuff are ugly. This thread sucks.
Also necromancy is the best one.
SS Tier: Conjuration, Illusion*
Gap
A tier: Transmutation
Gap
C tier: Abjuration, necromancy, Divination
D tier: Evocation ,Illusion, Enchantment.
*If using min maxed shadow conjuration.
Even by the usual low-intelligence standards of the typical DnDrone, this is STILL mind-numbingly moronic.
>best school
Old School
>tg is unironically full of vapid and mentally unstable dnd defenders
not really surprising
Believe it or not, people not being happy with a corporation or its product is not "trolling". That you can't wrap your head around that is plenty reason why you should just stay in the safe-space of your containment thread where the adults don't have to deal with your temper tantrums.
>Believe it or not, people not being happy with a corporation or its product is not "trolling".
No one said anything about the corporation
No one invited you to b***h and moan about a game you don't even play.
Imagine shilling for a guy who got his post deleted. Either you're samegayging and ban evading or your a WotC employee. Either way, you're not fooling anyone, so just stop with the corporate shill shitposting, my dude.
This loser still talking? Frick, how the hell do armchair theorycrafters think they can convince people who've actually played the game when all they have is bullshit?
>durp-de-durp, pause an enemy is good turn! Bad turn is putting the entire room into kill range for the rest of the party! DURPDEDURP
This is really simple to understand. You can put a whole room into kill range, but if there are 8 enemies and your party is 4 people, you're killing three of them max (you already used your turn on Fireball).
You're taking 5 attacks in retaliation. More if your allies don't move first.
If you lock down your enemies, you're taking zero attacks in retaliation.
I know basic math is hard for modern DnDronies, it's part of the reason I got out of that god-awful community, but please at least TRY to pretend you've ever played a properly balanced session following the actual rules, rather than whatever anime homebrew you seem to be arguing for.
Fireball does like 30-something damage on average. By level 6 it's not putting anything into "kill range" unless the rest of your party is also nova-burning all their resources on that single encounter.
You're imagining the solo CR 6 monsters vs. a party of 4, and yes, dropping below 80HP is in kill range for the other 3 party members.
But, you should be looking at what an actual encounter would look like, with multiple enemies of CR 4 and under getting hit by a fireball. Also, you get fireball at level 5, in case you didn't know.
>i don't play the game so i theory craft about nonsense
Rather than putting your enemies in a position where your allies can actually reduce their number, you're using your turn to stall half of them, maybe, and ultimately retaining the same problem of having to put them in a position where you can actually remove them. Hypnotic Pattern is not a bad option, but fireballs are consistent, extremely effective, and easily compound together with the effects of your allies, namely damage.
Dropping a fireball and then following that up with either another fireball or just people wading in and killing the survivors is often enough to turn a battle into a slaughter in a single turn. There's also so much defenses/healing spilling out of every character that it's really a waste to try and play temporary denial game when most enemy actions will be nullified anyway.
Like, you're so... basic. You're still running on earlier edition logic and trying to apply it to a very different game. I don't even know why I'm bothering to explain to you something you clearly don't care to understand because you have zero experience with the game in question but are adamant about pretending you do.
That "armchair theorycrafter" you're complaining about has a better grasp of the game than you do. Fireball is terrible when used against anything but mooks.
Illusion.
Always theorized that once people can't even be sure you were ever actually there or not, nor ever know if they actually killed you or not, they will just leave you in peace, because they will know that any effort they could made toward you will be wasted 99% of the time.
Then you can finally do whatever the frick you want.
Bonus point if you stayed a generalist mage and then start dabbing into Necromancy (hiding it easily with illusion) so you can become a lich and mess with people's head forever.
Abjuration because the best magic is not letting anyone else do any magic
>counterspells your magic
>dispels your magic
>glyph of wardings my magic to trigger when you use your magic
>antimagic fields your magic away from me
the school of hard knocks
Psionics should be made into a school and illusion, enchanment and divination should be rolled into.
Transmutation should be split with anything doing with the body to be siphoned off to a Life Crafter type school.
Evocation and conjuration should be broken and scattered over the other parts.
>Which school is the best?
Historically Conjuration is 10/10 and by far the absolute best school because it's basically the D&D equivalent of Blue in Magic: The Gathering where it can constantly steal shit from the other schools/colors.
There's Conjuration focused blasting spells that are often better than actual evocation ones, especially in D&D/Pathfinder where they bypass spell resistance and magic immunity because dousing someone in aqua regia melts their face off regardless and the magic was in conjuring acid out of thin air, the acid itself is 100% real and will melt SR30 monsters.
You want to do some scrying or reconnaissance? hah who needs divination, just summon an invisible monster with at-will personal teleportation and invisibility to do it for you, bonus points because anyone who has specifically taken measures against Divination or spells like Nondetection will still get screwed over by Conjuration-based spying.
Oh what's that you want even more out of combat utility? Don't worry, Teleportation is a subschool of Conjuration so it also includes battlefield mobility AND out of combat fast travel and teleportation AND planar travel!
Summoning monsters with spell-like abilities is often more efficient than actually casting them yourself, especially since spell-like abilities don't require components. Save yourself all that diamond dust by just summoning angels and shit to cast restoration and resurrection and gate and shit for you instead of lighting a bunch of money on fire.
Transmutation and Enchantment in tandem.
As for magic in general, it should be viewed like alchemy or primitive chemistry. We can understand how something works and (mostly) reliably replicate it by following procedures, but we don't know why it works. Every now and then a simple spell or incantation will go completely haywire for unknown reasons due to some unconsidered and unknown variable being off. Most different fields of magics are attempting to research and refine these phenomena to improve reliability, explore possibilities, and increase knowledge.
Either Transmutation or Evocation are false circles here. One of them should have ordinal seven design but they both have six.
divination, the rest don't even matter really
>magic A is magic B
Gay and cringe that isn’t magic kys
Abjuration for me, barriers and seals are wizard.
Conjuration
But I'm an Abjurationbro for life