Please explain. You're saying that Command & Conquer, Starcraft, Age Of Empires 2, Ground Control, Homeworld, KKND, Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander, MechCommander, Warcraft 2/3, plus many more, are all dogshit?
dead in comparison to fomos true, but not truly dead
Aoe2 DE still has around ~20k players on Steam alone
and very active players
https://i.imgur.com/jUMRXcG.jpg
who/what murdered the RTS genre?
Starcraft 2 ruined the game, Day9 mom was in charge of the marketing so blizz flooded everything with that crap.
SC2 only has 3 absolute pros and 4 pros, the rest are good players and the reason is asiaticlick, SC2 is the only rts where that shit will win you 80% of games and not everyone can do it
As a matter of fact sc2 players are injured for life even after using healthy knowledge from sc1
e-sports killed RTS. It's like karaoke, it's an activity that is fun until it's taken way too seriously. Every developer wanted to make their game tuned for e-sports and sapped all of the fun and quirk out of them. Likewise, diehard fans became obsessed with climbing ladders so they abused exploitable imbalances and, at their worst, influenced developers to embrace quirks as features. This pushes casual fans away until all that is left is an increasingly desperate group of tryhards trying to asiaticclick their way to top ELO.
Custom maps were the only thing that kept RTS games going for as long as they did. WC3 laddering was mind-numbing after a while, but the myriad of custom game modes available kept things fresh and interesting. Things may have turned out differently if Blizzard didn't view custom maps as a commodity to be purchased, but we all know how that ended up.
people would still be playing, and making custom maps today if blizzard didn't frick up so hard and get pissed at Dota, and screwed their own wc3 fan base
You're an actual dumbfrick and I thank the stars you're stuck in your mom's basement instead of going outside and fricking up society. The actual answer is all other RTS games didn't launch with the robust editor SC, WC3, and SC2 have. It's impossible to understate how far the World Editors went to making these games the undisputed kings of RTS.
1. MOBAs
2. asiaticclick
3. citybuilders
4. grand strategy schizos
5. zoomers only wanting mobileslop and FPSlop
The first 3 were more than enough to nuke the genre. There's a section of players who just want to play comfy turtling while the peak of asiaticclick also added a section of players who only care about competition and asiaticclicking.
No one, it was suicide. No one wants to start a game, wait for 20 minutes to actually start playing, lose, "guess I'll make 4 villagers and 2 houses again," wait 20 minutes to actually start playing, etc etc. Warcraft 3 was a little better about this but is too shallow to stand next to AoE.
It's not that fun, no. It was a right-place right-time game, and the miserable failure of the most other MOBAs suggests that they aren't particularly fun either.
Polytopia is turn based but pretty neat, Rusted Warfare is ratchet as frick but it plays pretty well. Any other decent mobile RTS? Preferably no Epic Castle or Crossy Fort or whatever other mobile tencent bullshit exists
sc2, but not necessarily sc2 itself
more whatever mindvirus every hack dev and suit caught that made them think mimicking sc2 would be an instant commercial success and made them drive so many attempts straight into the ground when the audience would inevitably ask >but I already have sc2? and it's higher budget than this.
looking at stormgate and zerospace, it's even still going on
starcraft 2, but RTS mostly killed itself because >People who just liked building up a town can play city builders/4X >People who like seeing big armies clash can play total war >People who like strategy can play turn based games or grand 'strategy' >People who like micro can play mobas >People who liked other custom scenarios no longer had to buy an RTS to play them because they spun off to being their own full on games
It's like how a lot of old arcade genres like spaceship shooters or beat em ups don't really get games anymore, people moved onto new genres that focused onto the specific thing they liked because most people didn't actually enjoy the very specific combo of macro, micro, building up a base and keeping tabs on all your units. There's a reason warcraft 3 invented hero units.
But then even if rts was dying, starcraft 2 was the decapitation that finished it off with its outrageous mmo style wait 5 years and buy 3 games to get the whole story setup, its complete assfricking of custom games because actiblizzard is furious they let dota slip through their greedy fingers, and its gameplay that doubled down on all the parts of RTS people who aren't korean esports gamers hated in the first place. - it seems really fricking foolish to me that stormgate is just starcraft 2 indie edition as if anyone is going to give a shit that cant just already play starcraft 2
It became too formulaic as a genre and also pandered too much to the sensibilities of the e-sports obsessed competitive playerbase which was always a minority in the overall rts playerbase. Majority of rts players cared more for the campaign as well as casual pvp & compstomping with their friends, than the hyper competitive esports shit.
warcraft 3 fixed all the issues the genre had but asiaticclickers were too busy jerking off starcraft instead and everyone else was either playing age of slowness 2 or using the extremely good game dev tools blizzard snuck in with wc3 because its a perfect complete pack gift form the gods up high to make games more fun then any RTS could be
the problem isn't that starcraft is too fast, the problem is that the apm is massively inflated by bullshit like having to baby your dragoons up a flight of stairs in sc1 or all the "hit this button on your TC every 30s or your economy is fricked and permanantly behind the other guy" buttons sc2 added like mule/larva and once you remove all this shit its about as fast as any other rts game because most of the actual combat is move your deathball (or death parkinson disease victims vaugely in formation in sc1) towards the enemy or away from the more dangerous enemy while every 30s someone casts a spell from the dedicated spellcaster unit vs wc3 where literally 9/10 units have an active ability
Because it's a genre that's only fun when you play it casually which is what 99% of players want to do, and not what the devs catered to.
wc3 added tons of casual appeal mechanics, people just used them w/ the map maker being so good to make games that are even more focused on them instead. if the map maker sucked shit like every age of X game you would see a lot of the people who play dota just run solo demon hunter in 4x4 random teams mode
>he's_right_you_know.jpg
I played WC3 and SC2 competitively for years and it was never as fun as playing custom maps or 2v2/3v3/4v4 skirmishes. 1v1 laddering is way too high stress, far too punishing, and mentally taxing for it to be a viable form of recreation. Winning most often felt like a relief instead of a satisfying victory.
it didn't "die"
it peaked as a genre years ago, aoe2, starcraft
the only way you can evolve it is by turning it into something else: mobas, grand strategy, city builders, management/simulation games
by diversifying into these niches, you make more money from specific audiences
Why the frick do people praise age of empires? It is such a fricking shit game. Completely unfun grindfest where the unit control is total ass and economy management boils down to "maek more villagers and put them to work" till the cows come home.
Plus every fricking faction in it plays essentially the same barring one or maybe two unique units plus some little twist here and there like huns not needing houses or shit like that.
Hipster is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else's authenticity into question and, by extension, claim authenticity for yourself.
It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.
Meanwhile, a market myth has sprung up around the term, as well as a cultural bogeyman consisting of elusive white 20-somethings who wear certain clothes (but no one will agree on what), listen to certain music (no one can agree on this either), and act a certain way (you're probably sensed the pattern on your own).
Suffice it to say, no one self-identifies as a hipster; the term is always applied to an Other, to separate the au-thentic Us from the inauthentic, ironic,Them.
You can't define what that kind of behavior or fashion or lifestyle actually is, nor will you ever be able to. That's because you don't use hipster to describe an actual group of people, but to describe a fictional stereotype that is an outlet for literally anything that annoys you.
The twist, of course, is that if it weren't for your own insecurities, nothing that a hipster could do or wear would ever affect you emotionally. But you are insecure about your own authenticity - "Do I wear what I wear because I want to? Do I listen to my music because I truly like it? I'm certainly not like those filthy hipsters!"- so you project those feelings onto others. Also the hipster subculture hasn't been around for over a decade.
I never played it as a kid, I was always more of a CnC and Starcraft fan, but with the release of the AoE 2 definitive edition some of my friends have tried to get me to play it and I am always just fricking frustrated when I try it, because I find it so fricking annoying to play.
I think that my biggest frustration stems from the way early game food economy basically constricts you to either to play the eco build up perfectly in order to not get left behind in the dark age, or to try to cripple your enemy in some early rush to consign him to that fate because if your enemy gets into feudal before you and manages to amass even just a few more units than you have, you can kiss your ass goodbye because you can't tech up and build defensive units at the same time due to both of them taking food in the dark age.
Not mobas, not dota, not wc3 maps, not any of that shit, but multiplayer did. RTS is the one genre apart from maybe MMOs where appealing to casuals is what you SHOULD do if you want your game to be better.
People who don't understand that adding complexity to a game is not an accomplishment.
There are endless ways to add tedious bullshit to a game, and none of them are good. Spawn larva was thought up and programmed in a day but people will defend it as a deep, skill-testing mechanic.
congratulations for destroying another one of my fav threads from years ago,now its all full of schizos screaming asiaticcliker this goockcliker that,no one talks about something interesting,its all morons throwing shit at each other,frick you op.
The genre split off into a bunch of niches. The autists who just want their comfy city builders went to play Factorio or whatever (I'm not one of them, I only know Factorio,) the failsons who like imagining themselves as Caesar moved off to grand strategy, the people who are actually interested in the strategy part fricked off to either wargames or RTT, so who does that leave for RTS? Just people with immense nostalgia for Starcraft and Warcraft, and no desire to see anything change. Unless you're blizzard you can't exactly market to that, and Blizzard would rather release 15 year old WoW content for easy money.
Singleplayer autists spend their time seething about multiplayer, not actually playing their "comfy, sovlfvl" games.
? What RTT are you talking about? I mean Wargame/SD/WARNO, or possibly Graviteam Tactics if you can stomach playing against its braindead AI. You'll get raped in either if you just A-move.
>Singleplayer autists spend their time seething about multiplayer, not actually playing their "comfy, sovlfvl" games.
That's not the point anon. Solid singleplayer is an essential ingredient, even for games that develop a pvp legacy/focus.
This is your mode for the common man, this is where you teach people how to play rts and your game, this is where you get people invested in the game and interested in the world/units/music/setting/story/characters/factions whatever.
Then, a smaller subset of those people move on to play pvp as well.
You want BOTH. If you want people to get invested in the new thing, havigng a great singleplayer campaign with fun skirmishing is the way to do it.
Over-focusing on 1v1 ranked/competitive multiplayer, and all the design decisions that stem from that. The bulk of the RTS audience wants giant battles with rosters packed with units that do all sorts of cool shit, redundancy (and even balance, just a little bit though) be damned. To all of these people PvP matchmaking may as well not even exist, they probably wouldn't even notice if you just straight up deleted it from their game, but because Starcraft hit it big with esports and competitive players every developer and/or publisher wants to chase that dragon no matter how stupid it is.
The fact that Total War is arguably the most popular strategy game series left standing while being all about a massive sprawling singleplayer map-painting campaign should tell these suits everything they need to know about the average vidya gamer that likes to watch lots of virtual men fight each other at once, but they just don't get it.
It's still crazy to me that ppl equate RTS to competitive multiplayer. I played online when C&C and TibSun still had servers. C&C multi was too simplistic and honestly pretty bad. TibSun had more options for players and fun FFA modmaps but there's no way I'd consider that the main appeal of the game, people move on from games anyway and servers have expiration dates. The campaign is just too good, so good people still repeat lines from it.
>I WANT TO PLAY RTS GAMES! THEY WERE MY FAVORITE GENRE!
>But only in single player. I don't want MP of any kind cuz it's stressing. >Also I want a good story like the epic Red Alert >Also I play in easy mode >Also I don't want to really learn the game, I just want to build my dudes for an hour and then stomp the easy AI >And turtle >And I want to build bases, houses and decorate them >And I don't actually want the tactics, build strats or think in the game cuz that's for tryhards. I want a relaxing game that is ACTUALLY strategy like turn based games. >I actually want a turn based game >I don't want to deal with other players >And le epic Warcraft story too! >Is Cities Skylines an RTS? >If you tell me to git gud I will call you a tryhard and a blowout
>What you mean RTS are dead then?
Every RTS thread. Why are so many guys like this? Why not play a tower defense then?
>I WANT TO PLAY RTS GAMES! THEY WERE MY FAVORITE GENRE!
>But only in single player. I don't want MP of any kind cuz it's stressing. >Also I want a good story like the epic Red Alert >Also I play in easy mode >Also I don't want to really learn the game, I just want to build my dudes for an hour and then stomp the easy AI >And turtle >And I want to build bases, houses and decorate them >And I don't actually want the tactics, build strats or think in the game cuz that's for tryhards. I want a relaxing game that is ACTUALLY strategy like turn based games. >I actually want a turn based game >I don't want to deal with other players >And le epic Warcraft story too! >Is Cities Skylines an RTS? >If you tell me to git gud I will call you a tryhard and a blowout
You will never be a real RTS pro. You have no skills, you have no credibility, you have no success in any professional tournament. You are a failson twisted by asiaticclick and e-sports mentality into a crude mockery of nature’s perfection.
All the “congratulations” you get are two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “friends” laugh at your futile endeavors to seem important behind closed doors.
People are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed humans to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even e-sports 'champions' might as well be irrelevant NEETs to the rest of us. Your finger-bone structure is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk girl home with you, she’ll turn tail and bolt the second she gets a whiff of your diseased, infected 'gaming' basement.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself that your digital trophies matter, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you without your digital e-sports trophies, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will never know an "RTS pro" is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton that leaves no traces of your 'success'.
This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
I see this posted in a lot of threads but what really is wrong with single player? It's not like it's going to rule out multiplayer. Not having a singleplayer campaign is a huge waste of engine and scripting.
>I see this posted in a lot of threads but what really is wrong with single player?
If your game doesn't have a longstanding MP scene to use for guiding and balancing the AI, each individual scenario will have to be done in a crude fashion, with handicaps and artificial restrictions preventing you from playing normally, and since the AI can't really evaluate itself, you end up with a mode so far removed from real gameplay that the game itself is never learned.
Further, SP players require far more effort to design content for than MP players, because all they have to do is beat a level once to decide they're done with it. This isn't just some RPG where the devs can copy-paste a new enemy onto the path. The entire scenario itself is a singular fight, and the devs have to consider every single way someone can play it. If they give you too much space, you become unstoppable too early. The pressure has to be constant without being downright unfair, and once someone sees the "You Win" screen, they leave the whole thing behind. With MP players, you make two new character-equivalents with only a handful of unique art assets and they'll balance the game for you. They can remain satisfied on one map for decades, playing one game mode and attracting new players to the game with online events and meta-analyses. >Not having a singleplayer campaign is a huge waste of engine and scripting.
SP campaigns are just a fundraising tool. There are many people who'll only play SP because their nerves won't let them play MP, but there's nothing good in SP. You're abandoning the most important part of the genre's premise, ditching the closed-fight format and game phases for cheap thrills and shiny lights.
MP fanatics think that they can bully people who prefer singleplayer campaigns into playing multiplayer instead if they shitttalk them enough.
These games were never good. They only ever thrived because there was a curiosity about them, but once that curiosity ended the genre itself died with it.
I don't know but I thank whoever did it. That genre is dogshit.
>That genre is dogshit.
This.
MOBAs
>That genre is dogshit
Please explain. You're saying that Command & Conquer, Starcraft, Age Of Empires 2, Ground Control, Homeworld, KKND, Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander, MechCommander, Warcraft 2/3, plus many more, are all dogshit?
all of them but Pikmin
low IQ guys like this one
and very active players
Starcraft 2 ruined the game, Day9 mom was in charge of the marketing so blizz flooded everything with that crap.
SC2 only has 3 absolute pros and 4 pros, the rest are good players and the reason is asiaticlick, SC2 is the only rts where that shit will win you 80% of games and not everyone can do it
As a matter of fact sc2 players are injured for life even after using healthy knowledge from sc1
Warcraft III custom maps
Was going to post this
It was also a Golden Age but it did kill the genre
Nothing as it's still going just fine.
Starcraft 2 killed that shit, it's such a fricking shame.
kek. frick blizzard I don't care if they think they own my maps I make.
e-sports killed RTS. It's like karaoke, it's an activity that is fun until it's taken way too seriously. Every developer wanted to make their game tuned for e-sports and sapped all of the fun and quirk out of them. Likewise, diehard fans became obsessed with climbing ladders so they abused exploitable imbalances and, at their worst, influenced developers to embrace quirks as features. This pushes casual fans away until all that is left is an increasingly desperate group of tryhards trying to asiaticclick their way to top ELO.
Custom maps were the only thing that kept RTS games going for as long as they did. WC3 laddering was mind-numbing after a while, but the myriad of custom game modes available kept things fresh and interesting. Things may have turned out differently if Blizzard didn't view custom maps as a commodity to be purchased, but we all know how that ended up.
people would still be playing, and making custom maps today if blizzard didn't frick up so hard and get pissed at Dota, and screwed their own wc3 fan base
The fact that Blizzard thought they could sue Valve over Dota, only to get counter-sued by Valve, will always make me smile.
I miss WC3 custom maps. There were so many good ones that I spent hours and hours playing.
You're an actual dumbfrick and I thank the stars you're stuck in your mom's basement instead of going outside and fricking up society. The actual answer is all other RTS games didn't launch with the robust editor SC, WC3, and SC2 have. It's impossible to understate how far the World Editors went to making these games the undisputed kings of RTS.
Does that mean Dota 2 is the current king of RTS since nothing else has a game editor?
I think you missed the point, what I understood from that post was that no games following WC3 could even compete
What game is this? Looks sovlfvl
Earth 2150
Are you from the moon?
You guys just want to talk about Earth 2150, don't you?
UCS best faction
Hey, I understand that joke.
1. MOBAs
2. asiaticclick
3. citybuilders
4. grand strategy schizos
5. zoomers only wanting mobileslop and FPSlop
The first 3 were more than enough to nuke the genre. There's a section of players who just want to play comfy turtling while the peak of asiaticclick also added a section of players who only care about competition and asiaticclicking.
Yep. APM psychos gave people the perfect excuse to try out the hot new MOBA genre
dead in comparison to fomos true, but not truly dead
Aoe2 DE still has around ~20k players on Steam alone
The world wide web amd javascript, not to be confused with the internet
Its fun but feels like of tedious repeating the same actions over and over.
MOBA
Citybuilders
Total War
No one, it was suicide. No one wants to start a game, wait for 20 minutes to actually start playing, lose, "guess I'll make 4 villagers and 2 houses again," wait 20 minutes to actually start playing, etc etc. Warcraft 3 was a little better about this but is too shallow to stand next to AoE.
They're just not that fun
because League of Legends is fun, right?
It's not that fun, no. It was a right-place right-time game, and the miserable failure of the most other MOBAs suggests that they aren't particularly fun either.
zoomers being shit at games with short attentionspans and no work ethic to learn and master something
RTS are actually hard to get to a level where youre comfortable
>RTS
>comfortable
He's literally me, even looks like me.
I'd rush your ass with protoss, and you'll piss and shit your pants
I want to strangle him. Cut off his wiener and feed it to him while he's still alive. Then I make mash out of his head.
I'm just watching the streams for Mario erotica at this point
I play AoE4/ Beyond All Reason everyday
Will play HW3, Men of War 2, Industrial Annihilation and Fragile Existence everyday when they come out. Nothing will stop that
devs abandoning all pc-centric genres to make console games
APM tardery led directly to mobas, which killed RTS.
E-sports and NoLAN homosexualry.
>E-sports and NoLAN homosexualry.
Cope.
Polytopia is turn based but pretty neat, Rusted Warfare is ratchet as frick but it plays pretty well. Any other decent mobile RTS? Preferably no Epic Castle or Crossy Fort or whatever other mobile tencent bullshit exists
Starcraft and AoE2 homies never trying something new
hu? They precisely did
This is my daily BAR shill post. Play BAR. Thanks.
They are just too easy for me. I love strategy games but most just aren’t that challenging.
ARTS supplanted RTS. It's par for the course for anything "action" related to a genre.
>moba tards think these genres play anything alike
>calling it a "m*ba"
Opinion discarded
>asiaticcliker's tards think they have authority to define genres
so u hate rts, but like moba, but also insist that mobas play like rts?
starcraft
sc2, but not necessarily sc2 itself
more whatever mindvirus every hack dev and suit caught that made them think mimicking sc2 would be an instant commercial success and made them drive so many attempts straight into the ground when the audience would inevitably ask
>but I already have sc2? and it's higher budget than this.
looking at stormgate and zerospace, it's even still going on
This game Z steel soldiers killed the RTS genre, nah im just fricking with you that pic reminded me of it
it's not dead
DARKNESS OVERPOWERING
my wife for hire
Mobile games
Free Mobas. Also EA being fricking idiots and running one of the most cherished franchises into the fricking ground.
Playing through Warcraft 2 campaign through wargus. Pretty good. I have never beat it. This time for sure.
Man, waiting for that Age of Mythology remake is killing me.
eSports, Blizzard and Microsoft.
starcraft 2, but RTS mostly killed itself because
>People who just liked building up a town can play city builders/4X
>People who like seeing big armies clash can play total war
>People who like strategy can play turn based games or grand 'strategy'
>People who like micro can play mobas
>People who liked other custom scenarios no longer had to buy an RTS to play them because they spun off to being their own full on games
It's like how a lot of old arcade genres like spaceship shooters or beat em ups don't really get games anymore, people moved onto new genres that focused onto the specific thing they liked because most people didn't actually enjoy the very specific combo of macro, micro, building up a base and keeping tabs on all your units. There's a reason warcraft 3 invented hero units.
But then even if rts was dying, starcraft 2 was the decapitation that finished it off with its outrageous mmo style wait 5 years and buy 3 games to get the whole story setup, its complete assfricking of custom games because actiblizzard is furious they let dota slip through their greedy fingers, and its gameplay that doubled down on all the parts of RTS people who aren't korean esports gamers hated in the first place. - it seems really fricking foolish to me that stormgate is just starcraft 2 indie edition as if anyone is going to give a shit that cant just already play starcraft 2
Customs in SC and WC3 when they showed you could use the framework but make it funner to play.
wc2 had tons of custom scenarios like towers, and weird shit like dbz ffa hero battles
It became too formulaic as a genre and also pandered too much to the sensibilities of the e-sports obsessed competitive playerbase which was always a minority in the overall rts playerbase. Majority of rts players cared more for the campaign as well as casual pvp & compstomping with their friends, than the hyper competitive esports shit.
Factorio
homie factorio isn't even an RTS and if anything it helped reviving the genre
warcraft 3 fixed all the issues the genre had but asiaticclickers were too busy jerking off starcraft instead and everyone else was either playing age of slowness 2 or using the extremely good game dev tools blizzard snuck in with wc3 because its a perfect complete pack gift form the gods up high to make games more fun then any RTS could be
>Starcraft 2
>NNNOOOOO TOO FAST! TOO FAST!! NOOOO
>AOE2
>NNNOOOOO TOO SLOW! TOO SLOW!! NOOOO
the problem isn't that starcraft is too fast, the problem is that the apm is massively inflated by bullshit like having to baby your dragoons up a flight of stairs in sc1 or all the "hit this button on your TC every 30s or your economy is fricked and permanantly behind the other guy" buttons sc2 added like mule/larva and once you remove all this shit its about as fast as any other rts game because most of the actual combat is move your deathball (or death parkinson disease victims vaugely in formation in sc1) towards the enemy or away from the more dangerous enemy while every 30s someone casts a spell from the dedicated spellcaster unit vs wc3 where literally 9/10 units have an active ability
wc3 added tons of casual appeal mechanics, people just used them w/ the map maker being so good to make games that are even more focused on them instead. if the map maker sucked shit like every age of X game you would see a lot of the people who play dota just run solo demon hunter in 4x4 random teams mode
Because it's a genre that's only fun when you play it casually which is what 99% of players want to do, and not what the devs catered to.
>he's_right_you_know.jpg
I played WC3 and SC2 competitively for years and it was never as fun as playing custom maps or 2v2/3v3/4v4 skirmishes. 1v1 laddering is way too high stress, far too punishing, and mentally taxing for it to be a viable form of recreation. Winning most often felt like a relief instead of a satisfying victory.
that's what 4v4 is for
This. I just want to play campaign on Normal and never boot up multiplayer. There are literally no modern RTS made for me.
it didn't "die"
it peaked as a genre years ago, aoe2, starcraft
the only way you can evolve it is by turning it into something else: mobas, grand strategy, city builders, management/simulation games
by diversifying into these niches, you make more money from specific audiences
>starcraft
>peak
I just wanna see big armies with diverse units slug it out. Never understood the appeal of ant colony simulators like Starcraft.
>ant colony simulators like Starcraft
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
koreans and streaming
Why the frick do people praise age of empires? It is such a fricking shit game. Completely unfun grindfest where the unit control is total ass and economy management boils down to "maek more villagers and put them to work" till the cows come home.
Plus every fricking faction in it plays essentially the same barring one or maybe two unique units plus some little twist here and there like huns not needing houses or shit like that.
Genuinely believe that the people who love AoE played it as children and just love it through the lens of nostalgia.
yeah, that's why people who weren't even born when AOE2 was out are playing it. Nostalgia.
>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T BE NOSTALGIC FOR SOMETHING YOU NEVER EXPERIENCED AHHHH
You are familiar with the concept of a hipster, yes?
Hipster is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else's authenticity into question and, by extension, claim authenticity for yourself.
It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.
Meanwhile, a market myth has sprung up around the term, as well as a cultural bogeyman consisting of elusive white 20-somethings who wear certain clothes (but no one will agree on what), listen to certain music (no one can agree on this either), and act a certain way (you're probably sensed the pattern on your own).
Suffice it to say, no one self-identifies as a hipster; the term is always applied to an Other, to separate the au-thentic Us from the inauthentic, ironic,Them.
You can't define what that kind of behavior or fashion or lifestyle actually is, nor will you ever be able to. That's because you don't use hipster to describe an actual group of people, but to describe a fictional stereotype that is an outlet for literally anything that annoys you.
The twist, of course, is that if it weren't for your own insecurities, nothing that a hipster could do or wear would ever affect you emotionally. But you are insecure about your own authenticity - "Do I wear what I wear because I want to? Do I listen to my music because I truly like it? I'm certainly not like those filthy hipsters!"- so you project those feelings onto others. Also the hipster subculture hasn't been around for over a decade.
I never played it as a kid, I was always more of a CnC and Starcraft fan, but with the release of the AoE 2 definitive edition some of my friends have tried to get me to play it and I am always just fricking frustrated when I try it, because I find it so fricking annoying to play.
I think that my biggest frustration stems from the way early game food economy basically constricts you to either to play the eco build up perfectly in order to not get left behind in the dark age, or to try to cripple your enemy in some early rush to consign him to that fate because if your enemy gets into feudal before you and manages to amass even just a few more units than you have, you can kiss your ass goodbye because you can't tech up and build defensive units at the same time due to both of them taking food in the dark age.
Multiplayer and e-sports
Not mobas, not dota, not wc3 maps, not any of that shit, but multiplayer did. RTS is the one genre apart from maybe MMOs where appealing to casuals is what you SHOULD do if you want your game to be better.
compgays
online metagaming and developer feedback, eg COH died in reddit and steam forus
People who don't understand that adding complexity to a game is not an accomplishment.
There are endless ways to add tedious bullshit to a game, and none of them are good. Spawn larva was thought up and programmed in a day but people will defend it as a deep, skill-testing mechanic.
yea games should have 0 complexity and just be pong
"cooldown"
unit experience
autistic multiplayer 1v1 gays
the same people that killed fps
>man doesnt know how to play game
>blames people who know how to play game
Consoles/phones plus genre fatigue.
tryhards
the MOBA genre and starcraft 2
it wasn't really "murdered". RTS was just never casual friendly nor popular.
It was both casual friendly and popular, u wot m8. Having a chuckle?
Horse shit. It was wildly popular which is why it slumped in popularity.
yeah thats why there where tons of RTS games released inbetween 1995 and 2005.right? you fricking poser moron,lmao,go have a nice day
kek no one ever played RTS. it was never popular.
It was popular enough to fund World of Warcraft development
congratulations for destroying another one of my fav threads from years ago,now its all full of schizos screaming asiaticcliker this goockcliker that,no one talks about something interesting,its all morons throwing shit at each other,frick you op.
action rts games like dota are much more accessible to the average gamer
starcraft's competitive scene. every other RTS started focusing more on being balanced for pvp than being fun
SC! has big singleplayer campaign
>SC2 has big singleplayer campaign
>yeah so the lesson here is we need to focus on mutliplayer only
FRICKING moronS
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
The genre split off into a bunch of niches. The autists who just want their comfy city builders went to play Factorio or whatever (I'm not one of them, I only know Factorio,) the failsons who like imagining themselves as Caesar moved off to grand strategy, the people who are actually interested in the strategy part fricked off to either wargames or RTT, so who does that leave for RTS? Just people with immense nostalgia for Starcraft and Warcraft, and no desire to see anything change. Unless you're blizzard you can't exactly market to that, and Blizzard would rather release 15 year old WoW content for easy money.
Singleplayer autists spend their time seething about multiplayer, not actually playing their "comfy, sovlfvl" games.
rtt are just attack move simulators, no strategy
? What RTT are you talking about? I mean Wargame/SD/WARNO, or possibly Graviteam Tactics if you can stomach playing against its braindead AI. You'll get raped in either if you just A-move.
>Singleplayer autists spend their time seething about multiplayer, not actually playing their "comfy, sovlfvl" games.
That's not the point anon. Solid singleplayer is an essential ingredient, even for games that develop a pvp legacy/focus.
This is your mode for the common man, this is where you teach people how to play rts and your game, this is where you get people invested in the game and interested in the world/units/music/setting/story/characters/factions whatever.
Then, a smaller subset of those people move on to play pvp as well.
You want BOTH. If you want people to get invested in the new thing, havigng a great singleplayer campaign with fun skirmishing is the way to do it.
Why do I always have to be the one to post this image? Yes, I know it's missing custom games. I'm not the original creator.
I lost interest in the pro RTS scene when i realized it's just grind and creativity doesn't get rewarded on bit
>having to spend half and hour farming to play rock paper scissors with tryhards
ayyy lmao no thx
ppl sucked starcrafts dick instead of dawn of wars (dawn of war is the greatest game of all time btw)
Over-focusing on 1v1 ranked/competitive multiplayer, and all the design decisions that stem from that. The bulk of the RTS audience wants giant battles with rosters packed with units that do all sorts of cool shit, redundancy (and even balance, just a little bit though) be damned. To all of these people PvP matchmaking may as well not even exist, they probably wouldn't even notice if you just straight up deleted it from their game, but because Starcraft hit it big with esports and competitive players every developer and/or publisher wants to chase that dragon no matter how stupid it is.
The fact that Total War is arguably the most popular strategy game series left standing while being all about a massive sprawling singleplayer map-painting campaign should tell these suits everything they need to know about the average vidya gamer that likes to watch lots of virtual men fight each other at once, but they just don't get it.
It's still crazy to me that ppl equate RTS to competitive multiplayer. I played online when C&C and TibSun still had servers. C&C multi was too simplistic and honestly pretty bad. TibSun had more options for players and fun FFA modmaps but there's no way I'd consider that the main appeal of the game, people move on from games anyway and servers have expiration dates. The campaign is just too good, so good people still repeat lines from it.
Is pathfinding a significant barrier to creating an RTS with "tight" gameplay?
Yeah, it's an unsolved problem.
replace all units with chronotroopers
ever play achron
Chronotroopers are telehomies. They don't actually do anything time-related, mechanically. Achron still has pathfinding woes.
how many games actually have time mechanics?
>I WANT TO PLAY RTS GAMES! THEY WERE MY FAVORITE GENRE!
>But only in single player. I don't want MP of any kind cuz it's stressing.
>Also I want a good story like the epic Red Alert
>Also I play in easy mode
>Also I don't want to really learn the game, I just want to build my dudes for an hour and then stomp the easy AI
>And turtle
>And I want to build bases, houses and decorate them
>And I don't actually want the tactics, build strats or think in the game cuz that's for tryhards. I want a relaxing game that is ACTUALLY strategy like turn based games.
>I actually want a turn based game
>I don't want to deal with other players
>And le epic Warcraft story too!
>Is Cities Skylines an RTS?
>If you tell me to git gud I will call you a tryhard and a blowout
>What you mean RTS are dead then?
Every RTS thread. Why are so many guys like this? Why not play a tower defense then?
>I WANT TO PLAY RTS GAMES! THEY WERE MY FAVORITE GENRE!
>But only in single player. I don't want MP of any kind cuz it's stressing.
>Also I want a good story like the epic Red Alert
>Also I play in easy mode
>Also I don't want to really learn the game, I just want to build my dudes for an hour and then stomp the easy AI
>And turtle
>And I want to build bases, houses and decorate them
>And I don't actually want the tactics, build strats or think in the game cuz that's for tryhards. I want a relaxing game that is ACTUALLY strategy like turn based games.
>I actually want a turn based game
>I don't want to deal with other players
>And le epic Warcraft story too!
>Is Cities Skylines an RTS?
>If you tell me to git gud I will call you a tryhard and a blowout
not an argument
Just give me a good new single player RTS and I'll be happy
You will never be a real RTS pro. You have no skills, you have no credibility, you have no success in any professional tournament. You are a failson twisted by asiaticclick and e-sports mentality into a crude mockery of nature’s perfection.
All the “congratulations” you get are two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “friends” laugh at your futile endeavors to seem important behind closed doors.
People are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed humans to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even e-sports 'champions' might as well be irrelevant NEETs to the rest of us. Your finger-bone structure is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk girl home with you, she’ll turn tail and bolt the second she gets a whiff of your diseased, infected 'gaming' basement.
You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself that your digital trophies matter, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.
Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you without your digital e-sports trophies, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will never know an "RTS pro" is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton that leaves no traces of your 'success'.
This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
>Your finger-bone structure is a dead giveaway.
>Devs decided to focus on players like you
>Genre dies
I see this posted in a lot of threads but what really is wrong with single player? It's not like it's going to rule out multiplayer. Not having a singleplayer campaign is a huge waste of engine and scripting.
>I see this posted in a lot of threads but what really is wrong with single player?
If your game doesn't have a longstanding MP scene to use for guiding and balancing the AI, each individual scenario will have to be done in a crude fashion, with handicaps and artificial restrictions preventing you from playing normally, and since the AI can't really evaluate itself, you end up with a mode so far removed from real gameplay that the game itself is never learned.
Further, SP players require far more effort to design content for than MP players, because all they have to do is beat a level once to decide they're done with it. This isn't just some RPG where the devs can copy-paste a new enemy onto the path. The entire scenario itself is a singular fight, and the devs have to consider every single way someone can play it. If they give you too much space, you become unstoppable too early. The pressure has to be constant without being downright unfair, and once someone sees the "You Win" screen, they leave the whole thing behind. With MP players, you make two new character-equivalents with only a handful of unique art assets and they'll balance the game for you. They can remain satisfied on one map for decades, playing one game mode and attracting new players to the game with online events and meta-analyses.
>Not having a singleplayer campaign is a huge waste of engine and scripting.
SP campaigns are just a fundraising tool. There are many people who'll only play SP because their nerves won't let them play MP, but there's nothing good in SP. You're abandoning the most important part of the genre's premise, ditching the closed-fight format and game phases for cheap thrills and shiny lights.
No, we're just disgusted.
TL;DR
WAAAAAHHHHHH UR BAD PLEASE COME PLAY MP INSTEAD
a mix of mobas becoming more popular and the catering to APM comp autists because of starcraft being popular
These games were never good. They only ever thrived because there was a curiosity about them, but once that curiosity ended the genre itself died with it.
asshomosexuals did, it is written
been playing wc3 reign of chaos.
it's great.
its fun up until
MP fanatics think that they can bully people who prefer singleplayer campaigns into playing multiplayer instead if they shitttalk them enough.